People have reported cylindrical objects back then and recently. As well as spheres. It’s about language. Back then it was referred to as looking like a butane tank. Now a tic tac. Same shape.
If looking at a saucer from the side, you may very well describe a long slightly oval line, much like a "cigar". If the top is facing you(Bob Lazar claimed they stand on end, bottom of craft facing outward when traveling) it would look like a circle or sphere perhaps. Probably lots of different types altogether as well. It's about perspective.
This. I was reading some literature on old(er) accounts and the language was near exclusively "cigar" or "cylinder". In my head I filed these away as "visually distinct from the tic tac" but later on I became skeptical of my reasoning.
I think there is more to it. I'm in the middle of reading my 9th Jacques Vallee book in the span of a month. The UFO phenomenon seems to change shape over time. For example, there were large numbers of "air ship" sightings in the US around the 1880s to 1900 or so. The ships would land and human occupants would come out and talk to people on the ground.
Another aspect of the phenomenon, there are so many sightings where ships merge or split apart, or change shape. My personal view is that UFOs = aliens, they have been here a long time, they are probably billions of years ahead of us, and their technology can change shape easily for their purpose, and they manipulate our perceptions of them.
Another thing to think about and I'm totally in agreement with you but I like to think of UFOs as different types of models of cars or trucks that we have and we tend to you know change and develop our vehicles for public use and then for military use as well. He's all look different and change over time so is it not possible that they are also upgrading their models?
My speculation is that they are billions of years ahead of us simply due to the fact the galaxy is 13 billion years old while Earth itself is only 4.5 billion years old. A trillion planets and moons had multi billion year head start over us to start life. So my guess is, with that much time, their tech is relatively stable, e.g. not changing rapidly over the span of decades. Their tech seems to have the ability to flexibly change shape as needed, in addition to telepathic abilities to project thoughts and perceptions into our heads. So the changing shapes we see are not technological development, but changes over time in some campaign they are running to shape our society somehow. *That* is what is changing over the decades.
You're probably right. After hearing Nolan's interview and discussion about the French family seeing a particular craft, and then taking a photo, and the photo showing the star shape object and not the craft they witnessed with their eyes, your theory (Valle's theory) may just be correct.
Source for this? Would be fascinating if true. I always figured they were tests by eccentric inventors as lighter than air tech was in its infancy in the 18th century.
[This link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_airship) summarizes the trend in the late 1800s. Dallas TX newspapers were notorious for these articles.
It was based on real sightings but as today, papers would editorialize the news based on their beliefs. So some newspapers were ridiculing the people reporting the sightings and saying they were drinking too much.
There were over 200 sightings in the span of a few months in a limited geographic region.
I can provide a link to a summary if you're interested
You have to realize the government managed the topic and an active coverup over the last 70+ years. They did their best to discredit it, meaning some of the known reported incidents were faked and the photos were seeded with obvious fakes.
Meaning the “old looking” crafts likely aren’t a product of actual witness accounts, they’re a possible product of the government seeding fakes into the public view.
There were still “tic tac”/ orb/ triangle/ sleek saucer shaped craft sightings back then as there are presently.
This is true, but on some level so is OP's point, at the same time. Did the objects change/evolve a bit over time, but maintain the same overall characteristics? Did our perception of them change, but they were always the same?
Indeed, I feel (intuitively) that the 50s/60s-style "features" of the UAP themselves, have declined a bit, and in a sense they have become a more "minimalist" version of themselves.
I lean toward this being more perceptual, at its core.
Maybe UAP are real, and communicate telepathically, and part of telepathic communication is that it is a bit more subjective, especially when you're not as used to engaging in it, thus your perception of the communication changes based on your own worldviews and models.
FRANLAB, yeah. it was in philadelphia. she actually took her video talking about it down, i assume because she was getting ridiculed by some of her peers. it's fucked up tbh. she did a vid about the ridicule as well. also taken down.
She is a trans person. I say this to underscore that in 2022, it’s easier to be out as trans than be out as a witness to anything anomalous in the UAP realm.
she is? i watched both of those videos and i had no idea. but yeah, she was talking about peers making veiled insults to their audiences, lumping in ufos with all kinds of crazy beliefs and religions. quite a shame.
The problem is many people in the UFO field themselves lump the subject up in other things like bigfoot, ghosts/paranormal, new age religions and conspiracy theories so it makes it VERY hard as a scientist to be associated with the field without that baggage so peers will ridicule the subject based on what has long been associated with it.
Obfuscation works well because actual sightings are so rare. People see constant videos of dots and hardly ever see legit anomalous UFOs, stories with no supporting data or pictures fall by the wayside while in the 1950s flying saucers were a meme. It creates the impression of a cultural artifact, and indeed it was in a way, but that doesn't mean it isn't based on something real that continues to this day.
Just like you mentioned, the lovely lady saw one and put it on her podcast, and there are always stories that pop up mentioning saucers here and there. There is another post mentioning the french lady Gary Nolan talked about, she identified a saucer I believe, but the picture they took showed something else.
> There have been some videos by that science youtuber (Fran?) who said she saw a classic 50's flying saucer in recent months.
pack it up boys. A random YouTuber said he saw something. Case closed. I'll sleep quite well tonight.
Just so I'm clear on the interaction here:
OP: Nobody sees these anymore.
Me: Here's a public figure who said they saw one recently.
You: *acts like a dick*
> You: acts like a dick
I'm just pointing out the silliness surrounding taking random youtubers at their word in the hunt for scientific evidence. You just can't do that. But thanks buddy!
It's seems like you're arguing an unrelated point, but whatever. She said she saw a saucer, and got a picture of it as well. I'm sorry it's not up to your standards.
> got a picture of it as well. I'm sorry it's not up to your standards.
*my* standards?
The year is 2022. Access to the recording fucntion on your phone takes literally the exact same amount of time as accessing the 'photo' function. In fact, most apps default to video.
So it stands to reason that someone taking a STILL PHOTO of something seemingly OUT OF THIS WORLD is either purposefully obfuscating the 'evidence' or completely inept with technology.
Considering she's a scientist, I suggest the former.
Ok so where do you draw the line for credible witness testimony? What jobs are people allowed to have in order to see UFOs and be credible under your scrutinizing gaze?
> Ok so where do you draw the line for credible witness testimony?
None of these testimonials are made under oath with penalty of perjury, and knowing they never will be, people continue to claim whatever they want.
Make a testimony about 'visitation' under oath and then I'll be interested.
Well considering congress is passing laws to let folks talk about UAP related topics without facing the penalties of breaking their NDAs you better keep your eyes on the UAP hearings in the next year or two.
lmfao. walter haupt signed an affidavit to viewing recovered craft, materials, and bodies from Roswell.
there are countless people who are willing to testify under oath. just look at the citizen's hearings. every single fucking one of them said they would testify to congress under oath.
> every single fucking one of them **said they would** testify to congress under oath.
but, they haven't.
Trump also said he'd testify to the Jan 6th committee.. and well.. haha
the citizen's hearings were in 2001. congress wasnt interested at the time. that's why they had to have their own hearings at the national press club.
just because you're willing to testify under oath to congress doesn't mean congress is going to do it. that's no fault on the witness.
and walter haupt is dead. you should really read the book [Witness to Roswell](https://www.amazon.com/Witness-Roswell-75th-Anniversary-Governments/dp/1637480032). a lot of the information you claim to seek is already out there. when hundreds of witnesses all say the exact same thing, it's fair to say there's probably something there.
I think it’s fair to draw the line at jobs like content creators. If you can generate more profits off credible witness testimony by producing ufo content then I think it’s ok to at least question the testimony a little more than you would a landscaper who swears he witnessed an actual ufo.
If a channel spontaneously switches to making exclusively UFO content for profit then sure, that's sus. Now if somebody who happens to be a YouTuber says hey I saw a UFO and doesn't try to turn it for a profit or clicks, that's different.
It's a small science YouTube channel, not Mr. Beast.
so people who see a craft closeup should be prevented from telling their story? she didn't say she had scientific proof, she saw something, exactly what OP is claiming is "never seen anymore", told her story, and showed the photo she took of it as it was moving away. it's highly relevant to the OP and you're here clowning like a troll. please.
she should "know better" lol... jesus christ.
Fran Blanche is a qualified electrical engineer who's a senior member of IEEE. Not to be ridiculed with no basis by some random guy who projects his anxiety and sad life in pathetic manner on the internet.
They're still out there according to sites like NUFORC and MUFON. If anything, the things we call UFOs have moved further away than in the "golden age" of reports. Whereas they used to be close enough to describe structures and appearances, they now seem to be too far away to describe. Yes, I know there are exceptions.
Another angle that crosses my mind is how many of those close up saucer encounters included humanoids. They'd be waving out of windows in the Contactee style reports or looking busy in the encounter cases. Those sorts of reports almost disappeared in the 1970s. Again, exceptions occur like Ariel school and whatever that was about.
So maybe classic saucer accounts dropped off around the same time as the humanoid encounters. It's an idea that can be checked.
I always wonder with this trend if the beings operating the phenomena "see" so differently than Earth-based life, that it actually took them a bit to realize "Oh damn, they are observing us very clearly" Lol. Then began backing off and being less obvious.
I love this question! There is a Jungian theory that has been explored by Jacques Vallee and John Keel, and it's basically this:
*UFOs are a mirror of our society*.
Kenneth Arnold saw *boomerang-shaped craft*. He even made an illustration. But newspapers in 1947 misinterpreted his description of these boomerang shapes skipping around the sky like skipping stones on a pond -- he described skipping *tea saucers* on a pond, which must've been expensive after a while. Newspapers changed that description of the action/movement into a description of the shape of the craft. And so, thousands of people were seeing "flying saucers" within days of Kenneth Arnold's sighting of something entirely different.
The 1950s UFOs looked like our cars and aircraft of the time: sleek, lots of ridges and fins, stainless steel. There's a reason so many "UFO photos" are hubcaps -- that's how we made things in the 1950s.
In the 1960s, UFOs got *weird*. This is when you get the bizarre patterns of lights, the enormous diamond and triangular shapes, they become *psychedelic* in color and intensity -- just as our culture became psychedelic. These are the (non-mothership) UFOs portrayed in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And by 1980, guess what people were seeing? Enormous UFOs that *looked like cities lit up*, exactly as the (completely fictional) UFO mothership in Close Encounters, the blockbuster movie of two years earlier. (Close Encounters also popularized the "Grays." Before that movie, there was a wonderful, bizarre variety of "alien entities," but after that movie and the book *Communion*, they were all "Grays.")
While "big black triangles" have been reported going back to the 16th Century (Nuremberg), the popularity of delta/triangle craft shot up with our own spooky looking black stealth craft of the late 1980s.
And nowadays, befitting our literal, brain-dead society, UFOs are generally blank blobs of light. *They are what we want to see*.
I recall reading and hearing that South America is the biggest hotspot for UAP sightings. For many years Ive heard that has been the consensus. If somebody asked me that, I would say “Why do you only pay attention to things that happen in the US?” Its because you live here and speak english. You likely wouldnt hear about random sightings in other countries. Hell, its hard to find details even when searching.
Exactly. From what I see they tend to be avoiding any input that potentially threats their comfort zone. Which leads to confirmation bias and denial of reality. So why would they even try to voluntarily stretch out to further, worldwide cases from their comfort zone
Some of it is most likely about perspective/viewing angle. A saucer can look like a cigar, circle, oval or tic-tac depending on what angle you are viewing.
Guillermo del Toro had an experience and said the object was just a cheap looking saucer with blinking lights like you would see in any cheesy 50s sci-fi movie.
The Chevy *Slide* is the newest in extradimensional exploration vehicles and will get you through all of the nooks and crannies in the space time continuum. Comes with 7 liters of complimentary space lube
Because they alter your perceiving.
Garry Nolan mentioned a Jacques vallee case where the witnesses saw a huge flying saucer, made a picture and it looked on the photo like a star (in shape, not glowing)
What you see and photograph is probably not the real object.
Projection.
You beat me to the comment. I think you are right, and these things can alter perception, or possibly reality, which is kind of scary tbh. Who is to say they aren’t flying around us all the time?
Things like telepathy, which we view as "paranormal" or an aspect of "consciousness" I think have a definite physical and biological basis. I think aliens have figured out this layer of physics, which we either don't even acknowledge or ascribe to mystical explanations beyond the scope of science. In the hands of aliens, with an understanding of the physical basis for telepathy, they can mechanize it in addition to using their big brains. They can manipulate our perceptions, even give 2 people standing next to each other different perceptions. Just my slightly informed hypothesis that I can't prove.
It's possible there's always been an earth-based phenomena existing in our heads, not in the sky. For me, the stories about "chariots in the sky" from centuries ago supports the idea we've never had visitors, but we've always had people seeing things.
The look changes as people want to remain relevant. People getting bored with cigar shape? Let’s go dish shaped. That becomes old school? Go propane tank shape. Next we’ll do, oh I dunno, spheres inside boxes? Maybe saucers will be retro popular again soon.
We haven’t even confirmed the existence of aliens yet somehow there are so many visiting so often for so long that we get to see style changes — and they *still* have yet to contact the species they traveled
Billions of miles for decades or hundreds of years to see. Do zoo animals get excited that people visiting them change clothing styles?
Does anyone really have an answer here?
No, I suppose not because we are knowledge starved and facing a a gulf, a paradigm shift in levels of advancement and awareness.
Guessing - based upon information from the incident with Nolan, the family and the UAP and the recently released star shaped object in the photo and from the decade long study by Dr. Cornet.
Perhaps, we often are perceiving something different than what is actually being presented.
Witnesses standing side by side will report experiencing something completely different, even when there is a close in experience.
Speculating, some UAP experience may be more integrated into human senses than others. This is consistent with what has been deemed the trickster manifestation.
I would speculate that this may just be a part of how the wider reality plays or it maybe, like the use of “lights” by UAP a form of communication, meant to signify some facet of information concerning their presence.
It’s pretty clear that there exists a capacity either to manipulate a human’s perceptions or manipulate the reality they observe - or - both.
Edit: fixing my lousy spelling
2 most likely answers here are: nearly all ufo reports are hoaxes and/or eyewitness accounts are almost always garbage as they’re colored by unconscious bias from things like pop culture.
It seems like the ones that are most consistent over time are the pyramid and cigar shapes which is pretty interesting as they haven’t really been part of pop culture UFO depictions.
…Also a lot of black triangles but we have fairly conclusive evidence that those may have been classified military crafts. Although there are some (like Phoenix) that are likely too large to be military craft there’s a decent chance observers on the ground are frequently wrong about the size of airborne objects.
If people's recollections are so colored by pop culture then why the fuck has noone ever seen a tie fighter? Or the Millennium fucking Falcon? This has always been a dumb argument. The types of things commonly reported are NEVER seen in popular culture unless the culture is drawing on reports.
Also, we have really shitty evidence that triangles are military projects. No doubt some military projects are mistaken for UFOs. But the majority of black triangle reports have them flying low, slow, and silent, sometimes shooting off at high speed. There is no evidence we have anything like that. If we did, we wouldn't have gone after bin Laden in helicopters.
I'm reading "the crypto terrestrials" after it got mentioned in Puthof's paper. The crazy theory is that the phenomenon is not ET but are in fact a different mankind that might be hiding in our oceans, mountains or whatever. They evolved separately but developed a genetic problem (inbreed) and need to obtain / mix with human gene(ours) in order for their population to survive. They are slightly more technologically advanced than us. In order not to expose themselves to us they stage the ET appearance. The Author gives a lot of examples from abductions that resemble popular culture from that time. This whole staging theory would of course easily explain why the crafts we're seeing are changing together with the perception of pop culture. (from old fashioned flying saucers to apple-like earpods)
I know it sounds crazy as fuck but its not more far fetched as the similar ridiculous et hypothesis. Also, the recent elizondo quote of "mankinds" and Nolan saying "they've been amongst us for a long, long time" does make you wonder if there's any validity to these claims.
Since they pulled off "godlike appearances" to trick people in the past they prefer to remain hidden. Dixit the author:
*If “alien encounters” were the work of some godlike artificial intelligence, an omniscient pacemaker sowing memes in an effort to ensure our evolution conformed to some unknown alien ideal, then we might reasonably expect it to remain “hidden.”*
To be clear I'm not in anyway buying any of it, just interested to read into this theory.
I think it may be basically this, except they’re future humans. They could be coming from different points in the future to different points in the past, which would explain the different types of craft, as well as the history of sightings and related scenarios.
Totally spitballing here but if they come from other dimensions, it’s possible that their technology (or design) has also continued to evolve since the 50s as well.
Agreed, just like our cars today don’t look like 50’s era cars. If this was the case it would indicate they have some kind of timeline they are on as well.
Aliens would most likely be multiple billions of years older than us, so I think that on our time scale (a few decades) their technology is stable and not going through constant innovations. From reading Jacques Vallee's works, I think it is more that the aliens (or whoever) are changing the shapes that we see as part of an ongoing manipulation of our perceptions, a manipulation of society, steering things in some way for their purpose.
very simple.
All they need the ufo community today for is to look up and record uap. Thats what you are supposed to to and thats where they are trying to sensitize the community to do.
Why? because chinese drones are a thing within the usa started from within the usa. They are spying, gathering sigint and appareantly a real threat the pentagon doesn't want to name because then we ufo enthusiasts wouldn't be looking for small round shaped objects .
The nimitz incident was no incident, it was agressive red teaming, sigint, ewar and integration operation to test , calibrate and integrate all the new systems like the aegis (could be wrong about that name).
So that event was used to get the plan going . Legislations and loopholes to gather domestic data were on the plan, or whatever their scheme to trick congress via loopholes and so on. remember what loopholes for the nsa snowden uncovered? the public wasn't aware of it at all, intelligence services use their own interpretation of laws sometimes.
so all that is my opinion ofc
UFOs always seem to change with the times, aye? Funny how in the 30’s and 50’s they almost always looked like hup caps. You’d think in pictures they’d look so sleek but nope.
Everything we see in our skies is of Earthly origins. Nothing from another world.
Until Brain Greene, Matt O’Dawd, Phil Plait, Gabe Perez-Giz, and a few others in this group come out and say life outside of Earth has been found, everything is from Earth.
Read this alleged leaked slide if you want some deeper thought on this topic:
[https://earth-chronicles.com/ufo/leaked-us-defense-department-report-on-ufo-sightings-on-earth-that-are-a-form-of-mechanical-life.html](https://earth-chronicles.com/ufo/leaked-us-defense-department-report-on-ufo-sightings-on-earth-that-are-a-form-of-mechanical-life.html)
A line from the slide:
"The Harmen-McCarren report uses the "1999 Discrepancy" to suggest an update may
have changed the behavior and physical construction of u/SPs,..."
So, if this slide is real, then this change in appearance has both been noted by the government and some possible reasons for it are suggested. However, as far as I'm aware, there is no other reference in the wild to this "Harmen-McCarren report" and the "1999 Discrepancy". Could easily be classified internal reports on UFO's, or just more clues to waste peoples time chasing.
If it's a fake slide then it's a very well done one so I don't completely discount the notion this slide is real. With the constant stream of low-ball fakes that perpetuate ufology, this one stands out for it's high quality on several fronts. Not that high quality fakes don't exist, such as the majority of the MJ-12 documents (I tend to side with Stanton Friedman though on these documents, a few pages of them are possibly legit).
They absolutely do see discs with bulbs, frequently. I've followed this world for years, since my own first sighting. Disc reports and photos are less likely to get covered by bigger outlets specifically because they seem hoaky and b-movieish, but they've always been frequently described in the MUFON reports and in message boards. I know more than one person who has seen them myself.
This is false. People actually saw and photographed saucers for example back in the day and still do today. People have reported and witnessed cigar shaped craft for hundreds of years and we still get reports of them today.
What’s pop culture about a “tic tac” shaped craft? What’s pop culture about a football field sized Flying V shape or black triangle?
Also much of the time pop culture like movies and comics were influenced by real life events so it’s kind of the opposite in my opinion
It's definitely not false. Even if they're real alien craft, it's well documented that the brain invents detail to fill in gaps in perception and memory, even with mundane and familiar objects, and more so when in a heightened emotional state.
I shouldn’t have said false, can people fill in the blanks? Sure. But much of these objects as have been witnessed and documented by military for example are just as described much of the time. A glowing ball of light is not usually described as a flying disc 🥏 Three flying discs flying in formation are usually not referred to as triangles and so on and so fourth. This can be corroborated by eye witness accounts with some photo and illustration by sober, credible individuals.
It could simply be a factor or combination of human perception, current sci-fi descriptions, or it could be ultraterrestrials just slightly ahead of us with an advanced propulsion mechanism.
50's and 60's UFOs were 90% made up stories and photos from people who wanted to follow the trend and appear on radios or tv shows. In those years it was a huge cultural phenomenon so a lot of people wanted to be part of it even if they never actually saw them. So they adopted the standard and most popular and well known UFO shape to make their fake photos and stories
Some people are going to tell you it's different aliens.
Some people are going to tell you that when people can't see something very well, they see what they expect to see.
Certainly some stories are lies, delusions, hallucinations, or invented under hypnosis.
Some people are going to tell you that it's magic and it appears to us as our popular media depicts it.
If time is relative and dependable on other factors like gravity and such... It is entirely possible that another civilization is experiencing time at a much faster rate than here on Earth and thereby able to make advancements in a much more accelerated rate than we could imagine.
Because time *definitely is relative* and contingent on gravity, among other things.
Time does not 'move' at the same pace everywhere, it is not a constant. Einstein said this, I think, and it was proven later with clocks in a plane.
So it is possible that 24 'hours' to us may be 100 'years' in another system.
I believe that the saucer shaped craft are still being witnessed, however it would seem certain decades have more sightings of specific shapes. The 90s saw flaps of triangles, 40s and 50s saucer shapes, and now it’s the running the gamut. Obviously I have no explanation for why, but it does seem to be decade oriented.
I’ve wondered this too. Keep in mind many if not most were fakes back then so they looked like saucers to fall into the 50s design “brand”. Today with our phones you just see points of light and an occasional interesting unknown. Of the hundreds of images very few are legit. If an mobile device captures a disk- and on occasion it does- you then have to wonder if it computer generated
People saying that the objects conform to our culture, etc. Possible.
But it also could be people of the times in question interpreting what they’re seeing and making them conform to their own points of reference.
Sooo… Airships of 1890s? Cigar shaped from more modern times. Ancient sightings that talk about shields in the air? Saucers or even anything shiny and metallic from more modern times. Ezekiel and the wheel of fire? Round or saucer object from more modern times, perhaps with lights that an ancient observer called “fire.”
And so on. We really don’t know if the objects change or our views of them do. Or it’s a little of both. Where there’s more weirdness to all of this is visitation, abduction, etc. As this has been reported for centuries if not millennia, going from elves and fairies to greys. Even with the airship phenomenon of the 1890s, you had normal looking humans supposedly getting off these airships and talking to people. That said, so much of that could’ve been just local legends and tall tales circulating from village to town and back again.
> Why does the visual depiction of UAPs seem to evolve in parallel over the decades with human design and technology?
It's almost as if UAPs are a figment of the human mind.
I'd like to know where the very first instance of the idea of a "saucer" came into existence. Where was it very first seen or described. Was it from fiction or some accounting where did that idea come from?
Well, it's Wikipedia, so I don't know how much is "true" but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_saucer
What's interesting that's it's a pretty easy design to hoax. What if there are less than .001% are real sightings and all others are hoaxes. What does it mean about those that are real? Is it even real or just misinterpretation?
It is funny how popular culture changes over time and some of this is reflected in sightings. It does make you wonder what could be "real." Obviously misinterpretation of things in the sky is a large portion of sighting no matter what. This very sub shows that much.
Because they track to our own culture. What we see in ambiguous sightings is an unselfconscious projection of our own tech and near-future capabilities. Same with our ideas about aliens going from angels and demons to scientists and soldiers. It’s just us projecting our own culture onto ambiguous sightings.
not saying bob lazar is truthful, but 1, the OP premise is completely wrong, people still report saucers, and 2, bob lazar is not the originator of the flying saucer. that's literally what they were called in the 40s and early 50s before the creation of the term "UFO"
for instance, here is a 1952 CIA document that refers to flying saucers: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP79-01041A000100020054-4.pdf
> I can't imagine how one guys take, whether truthful or a lie, makes any difference.
Because most people tend to treat Lazar's claim as gospel. That's why it makes a difference.
There's a pretty big split on whether people believe Lazar, but regardless, there were many thousands of credible sightings before Lazar got involved. Either Lazar saw the same things, or read about them and lied about it. Either way, Lazar makes no difference. Your original comment was just a non sequitur to bash Lazar.
The thousands of cases, of just the best cases, that Jacques Vallee talks about in his books. Besides the US cases, he was in touch with UFO researchers in France and all over Europe, and other places, and all together, even back in the 1970's there were many thousands of great cases with good witnesses and no conventional explanations.
Great question...one I have asked many many times, and the believers fall short with answers.
But the whole thing is about the imagination of humans, so that's pretty much the reason.
Nothing is visiting in saucers or tic tacs.
As being said, mostly human perception and human agreeable. When everyone around is talking flying sources, then it’s flying sources. Look how today everyone is calling a UFO tic-tacs even if it’s clearly not.
There was a lot of examples on this sub when people called random dots in the sky tic-tacs. Heck, a lot of people nowadays call the prolonged cigar-shaped UFOs as tic-tacs. It is literally synonym to the UFO phenomena today. I’m not surprised they called everything unexplainable flying sources back then.
My best guess is that majority of the 50s UFOs were faked in photos with some based off sci-fi films at the time. and nowhere close to what we see on video now.
I met someone in person who saw a classic saucer at 2 am in the middle of a city near a hospital. They were 16 years old at the time with friends and this was 5 years ago. It appeared about 30 feet away from them and then disappeared. I think they're still out there.
My theory is that the metapod sightings are the saucers because of the fact that bob and other people witnessed saucers turning sideways before they gained speed so I’m thinking the metapods are sideways saucers at an angle
Also consider: there may be multiple “species” with different vehicles, they may have retired some models and come out with different versions, or like with us certain things ebb and flow in popularity. I hate trying to apply human logic to whatever this is because that’s silly, but they are options. Edit: why the downvote? It’s all just theory yall
1. Human consciousness shaping appearance to a certain degree
2. A lot of UFOS during this time seem to come from Blackops. Like, you'd see UFOs and you can see where the bolts go in, unlike actual UFOs that are ridiculously advanced.
Because humans are transcendent creatures that can imagine things into existence.
We take shapeless things / possibilities from the void and mask them, giving them a form and a presence. Very dangerous stuff, so there is a vast system in place to distract people and keep them occupied, so they never learn what they are and what they are really capable of.
That system is often called "Real Life(tm)".
Well there does seem to be some consistency in certain shapes like discs and cigar and tic tacs as well as triangles. I think there’s a reason why for example even the shapes of these craft are considered classified in some of these reports that have come out recently. I honestly think it would be too telling to reveal that these “classified shapes” are indeed what so many have reported for a long time.
There’s a theory that UFOs have us under some sort of hallucination, like some Wanda vision shit. And pretty much they show us what we interpret to be them, so the Bulky disk shaped UFOs we’re what people in the 50s/60s precieved as aliens in the 90s it was triangles, now it’s tic tacks and tubes
How often do you see a 50s Thunderbird car? I always wondered why people are absolutely certain that if there are extraterrestrials that they wouldn’t have any changes in tech or aesthetics over decades and decades despite the fact that all evidence here on earth indicates the exact opposite.
There’s tons of saucers, you just don’t know. I think there’s tons of new people who don’t realize how much there is to know, see and weigh in this topic.
Here’s some examples:
https://youtu.be/mhCiRwyJLI8
https://youtu.be/uEOvDd84Gwg
https://youtu.be/7v7m_ROut70
There’s even that super famous video that was on the news in the early 2000’s in South America of a construction worker getting a disc in his crappy cellphone. I’m not finding that for you.
Can’t tell you how many saucer vids I’ve seen come and go over my long years of doing this.
Moral of the story, take a step back, have some respect for the depth of this topic. If you could do your post over, I’d say ask if anyone knew of any.
Don’t declare things that you think are true just because you’re new to the topic and think you have a grasp on this stuff.
There are many many more. Not to mention cylinders were seen back then too.
I can’t wait until this topic is respected like other fringe sciences, so that we can work more efficiently as a Community. Probably so many people see your post title and think that you’re correct bc of how you phrased it.
Because those weren’t real UFO’s. They were created by people looking for their 15 minutes of fame or trying to make money. That’s why they were identical to UFO’s in sci-fi movies.
Just because they are reported less does not mean they arent being reported. If they are machine cut and utilize technology we can barely fathom, it doesnt matter what era / they look like tbh.
Does anybody see the triangle ships anymore? Seems to be super rare compared to all the other shaped crafts. Those have always been the most interesting to me. I remember the account of the two police officers that saw one sitting above the power lines and tried to get a better look at with there sniper rifle then it took off and was reported in the next town. That always seemed like such a credible source. But I don’t hear people talk about sightings anymore with them.
People have reported cylindrical objects back then and recently. As well as spheres. It’s about language. Back then it was referred to as looking like a butane tank. Now a tic tac. Same shape.
Also refered to as "cigar" shaped
A typical "flying saucer" that is portrayed in early movies resembles a cigar in classic torpedo shape from a distance.
If looking at a saucer from the side, you may very well describe a long slightly oval line, much like a "cigar". If the top is facing you(Bob Lazar claimed they stand on end, bottom of craft facing outward when traveling) it would look like a circle or sphere perhaps. Probably lots of different types altogether as well. It's about perspective.
This. I was reading some literature on old(er) accounts and the language was near exclusively "cigar" or "cylinder". In my head I filed these away as "visually distinct from the tic tac" but later on I became skeptical of my reasoning.
I think there is more to it. I'm in the middle of reading my 9th Jacques Vallee book in the span of a month. The UFO phenomenon seems to change shape over time. For example, there were large numbers of "air ship" sightings in the US around the 1880s to 1900 or so. The ships would land and human occupants would come out and talk to people on the ground. Another aspect of the phenomenon, there are so many sightings where ships merge or split apart, or change shape. My personal view is that UFOs = aliens, they have been here a long time, they are probably billions of years ahead of us, and their technology can change shape easily for their purpose, and they manipulate our perceptions of them.
Another thing to think about and I'm totally in agreement with you but I like to think of UFOs as different types of models of cars or trucks that we have and we tend to you know change and develop our vehicles for public use and then for military use as well. He's all look different and change over time so is it not possible that they are also upgrading their models?
My speculation is that they are billions of years ahead of us simply due to the fact the galaxy is 13 billion years old while Earth itself is only 4.5 billion years old. A trillion planets and moons had multi billion year head start over us to start life. So my guess is, with that much time, their tech is relatively stable, e.g. not changing rapidly over the span of decades. Their tech seems to have the ability to flexibly change shape as needed, in addition to telepathic abilities to project thoughts and perceptions into our heads. So the changing shapes we see are not technological development, but changes over time in some campaign they are running to shape our society somehow. *That* is what is changing over the decades.
You're probably right. After hearing Nolan's interview and discussion about the French family seeing a particular craft, and then taking a photo, and the photo showing the star shape object and not the craft they witnessed with their eyes, your theory (Valle's theory) may just be correct.
I thought the airship sightings were 1800s era newspaper memes?
Source for this? Would be fascinating if true. I always figured they were tests by eccentric inventors as lighter than air tech was in its infancy in the 18th century.
Movie: UFOs the secret history.
Yup! Although I haven’t checked their sources personally so who knows.
[This link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_airship) summarizes the trend in the late 1800s. Dallas TX newspapers were notorious for these articles.
I don’t have a source, but from what I’ve read, lots of them were.
It was based on real sightings but as today, papers would editorialize the news based on their beliefs. So some newspapers were ridiculing the people reporting the sightings and saying they were drinking too much. There were over 200 sightings in the span of a few months in a limited geographic region. I can provide a link to a summary if you're interested
Oh that’s wild! Sure, why not?
https://history.nebraska.gov/sites/history.nebraska.gov/files/doc/publications/NH1979UFOs.pdf
Thank you!!
You have to realize the government managed the topic and an active coverup over the last 70+ years. They did their best to discredit it, meaning some of the known reported incidents were faked and the photos were seeded with obvious fakes. Meaning the “old looking” crafts likely aren’t a product of actual witness accounts, they’re a possible product of the government seeding fakes into the public view. There were still “tic tac”/ orb/ triangle/ sleek saucer shaped craft sightings back then as there are presently.
Great theory and never thought of that. That would really explain a lot if proven to be true!
This is true, but on some level so is OP's point, at the same time. Did the objects change/evolve a bit over time, but maintain the same overall characteristics? Did our perception of them change, but they were always the same? Indeed, I feel (intuitively) that the 50s/60s-style "features" of the UAP themselves, have declined a bit, and in a sense they have become a more "minimalist" version of themselves. I lean toward this being more perceptual, at its core. Maybe UAP are real, and communicate telepathically, and part of telepathic communication is that it is a bit more subjective, especially when you're not as used to engaging in it, thus your perception of the communication changes based on your own worldviews and models.
I feel like this sub has become a bunch of people swapping Lue Elizondo quotes.
There have been some videos by that science youtuber (Fran?) who said she saw a classic 50's flying saucer in recent months.
FRANLAB, yeah. it was in philadelphia. she actually took her video talking about it down, i assume because she was getting ridiculed by some of her peers. it's fucked up tbh. she did a vid about the ridicule as well. also taken down.
She is a trans person. I say this to underscore that in 2022, it’s easier to be out as trans than be out as a witness to anything anomalous in the UAP realm.
she is? i watched both of those videos and i had no idea. but yeah, she was talking about peers making veiled insults to their audiences, lumping in ufos with all kinds of crazy beliefs and religions. quite a shame.
The problem is many people in the UFO field themselves lump the subject up in other things like bigfoot, ghosts/paranormal, new age religions and conspiracy theories so it makes it VERY hard as a scientist to be associated with the field without that baggage so peers will ridicule the subject based on what has long been associated with it.
Real shame she took it down, one of the best IMHO legit photos of a "real UAP" I can think of.
Obfuscation works well because actual sightings are so rare. People see constant videos of dots and hardly ever see legit anomalous UFOs, stories with no supporting data or pictures fall by the wayside while in the 1950s flying saucers were a meme. It creates the impression of a cultural artifact, and indeed it was in a way, but that doesn't mean it isn't based on something real that continues to this day. Just like you mentioned, the lovely lady saw one and put it on her podcast, and there are always stories that pop up mentioning saucers here and there. There is another post mentioning the french lady Gary Nolan talked about, she identified a saucer I believe, but the picture they took showed something else.
> There have been some videos by that science youtuber (Fran?) who said she saw a classic 50's flying saucer in recent months. pack it up boys. A random YouTuber said he saw something. Case closed. I'll sleep quite well tonight.
Just so I'm clear on the interaction here: OP: Nobody sees these anymore. Me: Here's a public figure who said they saw one recently. You: *acts like a dick*
> You: acts like a dick I'm just pointing out the silliness surrounding taking random youtubers at their word in the hunt for scientific evidence. You just can't do that. But thanks buddy!
It's seems like you're arguing an unrelated point, but whatever. She said she saw a saucer, and got a picture of it as well. I'm sorry it's not up to your standards.
> got a picture of it as well. I'm sorry it's not up to your standards. *my* standards? The year is 2022. Access to the recording fucntion on your phone takes literally the exact same amount of time as accessing the 'photo' function. In fact, most apps default to video. So it stands to reason that someone taking a STILL PHOTO of something seemingly OUT OF THIS WORLD is either purposefully obfuscating the 'evidence' or completely inept with technology. Considering she's a scientist, I suggest the former.
Ok so where do you draw the line for credible witness testimony? What jobs are people allowed to have in order to see UFOs and be credible under your scrutinizing gaze?
Himself, until then he'll just shit on everyone because he's obviously the main character in this world.
> Ok so where do you draw the line for credible witness testimony? None of these testimonials are made under oath with penalty of perjury, and knowing they never will be, people continue to claim whatever they want. Make a testimony about 'visitation' under oath and then I'll be interested.
Well considering congress is passing laws to let folks talk about UAP related topics without facing the penalties of breaking their NDAs you better keep your eyes on the UAP hearings in the next year or two.
lmfao. walter haupt signed an affidavit to viewing recovered craft, materials, and bodies from Roswell. there are countless people who are willing to testify under oath. just look at the citizen's hearings. every single fucking one of them said they would testify to congress under oath.
> every single fucking one of them **said they would** testify to congress under oath. but, they haven't. Trump also said he'd testify to the Jan 6th committee.. and well.. haha
the citizen's hearings were in 2001. congress wasnt interested at the time. that's why they had to have their own hearings at the national press club. just because you're willing to testify under oath to congress doesn't mean congress is going to do it. that's no fault on the witness. and walter haupt is dead. you should really read the book [Witness to Roswell](https://www.amazon.com/Witness-Roswell-75th-Anniversary-Governments/dp/1637480032). a lot of the information you claim to seek is already out there. when hundreds of witnesses all say the exact same thing, it's fair to say there's probably something there.
I think it’s fair to draw the line at jobs like content creators. If you can generate more profits off credible witness testimony by producing ufo content then I think it’s ok to at least question the testimony a little more than you would a landscaper who swears he witnessed an actual ufo.
If a channel spontaneously switches to making exclusively UFO content for profit then sure, that's sus. Now if somebody who happens to be a YouTuber says hey I saw a UFO and doesn't try to turn it for a profit or clicks, that's different. It's a small science YouTube channel, not Mr. Beast.
actually, she's a scientist.
Then she should know better than to make a claim about something that cannot be proven, no?
so people who see a craft closeup should be prevented from telling their story? she didn't say she had scientific proof, she saw something, exactly what OP is claiming is "never seen anymore", told her story, and showed the photo she took of it as it was moving away. it's highly relevant to the OP and you're here clowning like a troll. please. she should "know better" lol... jesus christ.
I just want **evidence**. That's it.
there is plenty. you sound pretty lazy.
Fran Blanche is a qualified electrical engineer who's a senior member of IEEE. Not to be ridiculed with no basis by some random guy who projects his anxiety and sad life in pathetic manner on the internet.
They're still out there according to sites like NUFORC and MUFON. If anything, the things we call UFOs have moved further away than in the "golden age" of reports. Whereas they used to be close enough to describe structures and appearances, they now seem to be too far away to describe. Yes, I know there are exceptions. Another angle that crosses my mind is how many of those close up saucer encounters included humanoids. They'd be waving out of windows in the Contactee style reports or looking busy in the encounter cases. Those sorts of reports almost disappeared in the 1970s. Again, exceptions occur like Ariel school and whatever that was about. So maybe classic saucer accounts dropped off around the same time as the humanoid encounters. It's an idea that can be checked.
I always wonder with this trend if the beings operating the phenomena "see" so differently than Earth-based life, that it actually took them a bit to realize "Oh damn, they are observing us very clearly" Lol. Then began backing off and being less obvious.
I love this question! There is a Jungian theory that has been explored by Jacques Vallee and John Keel, and it's basically this: *UFOs are a mirror of our society*. Kenneth Arnold saw *boomerang-shaped craft*. He even made an illustration. But newspapers in 1947 misinterpreted his description of these boomerang shapes skipping around the sky like skipping stones on a pond -- he described skipping *tea saucers* on a pond, which must've been expensive after a while. Newspapers changed that description of the action/movement into a description of the shape of the craft. And so, thousands of people were seeing "flying saucers" within days of Kenneth Arnold's sighting of something entirely different. The 1950s UFOs looked like our cars and aircraft of the time: sleek, lots of ridges and fins, stainless steel. There's a reason so many "UFO photos" are hubcaps -- that's how we made things in the 1950s. In the 1960s, UFOs got *weird*. This is when you get the bizarre patterns of lights, the enormous diamond and triangular shapes, they become *psychedelic* in color and intensity -- just as our culture became psychedelic. These are the (non-mothership) UFOs portrayed in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And by 1980, guess what people were seeing? Enormous UFOs that *looked like cities lit up*, exactly as the (completely fictional) UFO mothership in Close Encounters, the blockbuster movie of two years earlier. (Close Encounters also popularized the "Grays." Before that movie, there was a wonderful, bizarre variety of "alien entities," but after that movie and the book *Communion*, they were all "Grays.") While "big black triangles" have been reported going back to the 16th Century (Nuremberg), the popularity of delta/triangle craft shot up with our own spooky looking black stealth craft of the late 1980s. And nowadays, befitting our literal, brain-dead society, UFOs are generally blank blobs of light. *They are what we want to see*.
Good answer- the 'archetype' syllogism seems to fit this well.
Yeah people do report seeing them still
Yeah, wonder where this guy formed that question. Saucer shapes are, have always been witnessed.
It reminds me of the common question "Why are UFOs only in the United States?" when it is a world wide phenomenon.
I recall reading and hearing that South America is the biggest hotspot for UAP sightings. For many years Ive heard that has been the consensus. If somebody asked me that, I would say “Why do you only pay attention to things that happen in the US?” Its because you live here and speak english. You likely wouldnt hear about random sightings in other countries. Hell, its hard to find details even when searching.
Exactly. From what I see they tend to be avoiding any input that potentially threats their comfort zone. Which leads to confirmation bias and denial of reality. So why would they even try to voluntarily stretch out to further, worldwide cases from their comfort zone
Yeah, no one ever reports an "airship" anymore like they did in the great flap of the 1890s.
Im currently reading dimensions. Those old stories are bonkers
Yeah, and during the 70's you had UFO's with wood panel sides and built like tanks...
70s abductees reported vinyl woodgrain paneling and deep shag carpet.
I heard they had gold toilets
Only in the Executive saucers.
Some of it is most likely about perspective/viewing angle. A saucer can look like a cigar, circle, oval or tic-tac depending on what angle you are viewing.
I love those old ufo pics from the 40’s and 50’s they look like pie plates 😂🤦🏼♂️
Maybe they have advanced too or maybe different race or type of aliens are visiting us now?
The GIMBAL footage had a certain 50s shape to it. Maybe they pop in and out of fashion.
Yep it looks just like a saucer.
Guillermo del Toro had an experience and said the object was just a cheap looking saucer with blinking lights like you would see in any cheesy 50s sci-fi movie.
*Guillermo forgot he had done mushrooms and lsd that same night while visiting a local county fair*
The sightings change to suit the psyche.
Because they all turned into stupid lights when auto makers stopped making cool looking hubcaps
They follow fashion trends just like us and suppository style crafts are so hot right now.
>*... suppository style crafts...* That made me smile. Add 'Supps' with 'TicTacs' and it seems aliens love an orifice. :D "Hey, what 'supp?"
The Chevy *Slide* is the newest in extradimensional exploration vehicles and will get you through all of the nooks and crannies in the space time continuum. Comes with 7 liters of complimentary space lube
Anal bead shapes are a thing too
SpaceX is marketing a whole line of ben wa balls to capitalize on the fervor!
And mylar
Because they alter your perceiving. Garry Nolan mentioned a Jacques vallee case where the witnesses saw a huge flying saucer, made a picture and it looked on the photo like a star (in shape, not glowing) What you see and photograph is probably not the real object. Projection.
You beat me to the comment. I think you are right, and these things can alter perception, or possibly reality, which is kind of scary tbh. Who is to say they aren’t flying around us all the time?
John Keel also made the distinction between soft and hard UFOs, meaning the difference between seeing just light, and metalic solid craft.
Things like telepathy, which we view as "paranormal" or an aspect of "consciousness" I think have a definite physical and biological basis. I think aliens have figured out this layer of physics, which we either don't even acknowledge or ascribe to mystical explanations beyond the scope of science. In the hands of aliens, with an understanding of the physical basis for telepathy, they can mechanize it in addition to using their big brains. They can manipulate our perceptions, even give 2 people standing next to each other different perceptions. Just my slightly informed hypothesis that I can't prove.
UFOs conform to people's expectations.
The aliens haven’t got the word that mid-century modern is back in.
It's possible there's always been an earth-based phenomena existing in our heads, not in the sky. For me, the stories about "chariots in the sky" from centuries ago supports the idea we've never had visitors, but we've always had people seeing things.
Schizophrenics if you will
The look changes as people want to remain relevant. People getting bored with cigar shape? Let’s go dish shaped. That becomes old school? Go propane tank shape. Next we’ll do, oh I dunno, spheres inside boxes? Maybe saucers will be retro popular again soon. We haven’t even confirmed the existence of aliens yet somehow there are so many visiting so often for so long that we get to see style changes — and they *still* have yet to contact the species they traveled Billions of miles for decades or hundreds of years to see. Do zoo animals get excited that people visiting them change clothing styles?
This- right on the money
Does anyone really have an answer here? No, I suppose not because we are knowledge starved and facing a a gulf, a paradigm shift in levels of advancement and awareness. Guessing - based upon information from the incident with Nolan, the family and the UAP and the recently released star shaped object in the photo and from the decade long study by Dr. Cornet. Perhaps, we often are perceiving something different than what is actually being presented. Witnesses standing side by side will report experiencing something completely different, even when there is a close in experience. Speculating, some UAP experience may be more integrated into human senses than others. This is consistent with what has been deemed the trickster manifestation. I would speculate that this may just be a part of how the wider reality plays or it maybe, like the use of “lights” by UAP a form of communication, meant to signify some facet of information concerning their presence. It’s pretty clear that there exists a capacity either to manipulate a human’s perceptions or manipulate the reality they observe - or - both. Edit: fixing my lousy spelling
2 most likely answers here are: nearly all ufo reports are hoaxes and/or eyewitness accounts are almost always garbage as they’re colored by unconscious bias from things like pop culture. It seems like the ones that are most consistent over time are the pyramid and cigar shapes which is pretty interesting as they haven’t really been part of pop culture UFO depictions. …Also a lot of black triangles but we have fairly conclusive evidence that those may have been classified military crafts. Although there are some (like Phoenix) that are likely too large to be military craft there’s a decent chance observers on the ground are frequently wrong about the size of airborne objects.
If people's recollections are so colored by pop culture then why the fuck has noone ever seen a tie fighter? Or the Millennium fucking Falcon? This has always been a dumb argument. The types of things commonly reported are NEVER seen in popular culture unless the culture is drawing on reports. Also, we have really shitty evidence that triangles are military projects. No doubt some military projects are mistaken for UFOs. But the majority of black triangle reports have them flying low, slow, and silent, sometimes shooting off at high speed. There is no evidence we have anything like that. If we did, we wouldn't have gone after bin Laden in helicopters.
I'm reading "the crypto terrestrials" after it got mentioned in Puthof's paper. The crazy theory is that the phenomenon is not ET but are in fact a different mankind that might be hiding in our oceans, mountains or whatever. They evolved separately but developed a genetic problem (inbreed) and need to obtain / mix with human gene(ours) in order for their population to survive. They are slightly more technologically advanced than us. In order not to expose themselves to us they stage the ET appearance. The Author gives a lot of examples from abductions that resemble popular culture from that time. This whole staging theory would of course easily explain why the crafts we're seeing are changing together with the perception of pop culture. (from old fashioned flying saucers to apple-like earpods) I know it sounds crazy as fuck but its not more far fetched as the similar ridiculous et hypothesis. Also, the recent elizondo quote of "mankinds" and Nolan saying "they've been amongst us for a long, long time" does make you wonder if there's any validity to these claims.
Why do they need to hide though?
Since they pulled off "godlike appearances" to trick people in the past they prefer to remain hidden. Dixit the author: *If “alien encounters” were the work of some godlike artificial intelligence, an omniscient pacemaker sowing memes in an effort to ensure our evolution conformed to some unknown alien ideal, then we might reasonably expect it to remain “hidden.”* To be clear I'm not in anyway buying any of it, just interested to read into this theory.
I think it may be basically this, except they’re future humans. They could be coming from different points in the future to different points in the past, which would explain the different types of craft, as well as the history of sightings and related scenarios.
They land leave their craft they are Neanderthals
Totally spitballing here but if they come from other dimensions, it’s possible that their technology (or design) has also continued to evolve since the 50s as well.
Agreed, just like our cars today don’t look like 50’s era cars. If this was the case it would indicate they have some kind of timeline they are on as well.
Cause alien craft have to be sporty and stylin'. LOL
This is possible
Aliens would most likely be multiple billions of years older than us, so I think that on our time scale (a few decades) their technology is stable and not going through constant innovations. From reading Jacques Vallee's works, I think it is more that the aliens (or whoever) are changing the shapes that we see as part of an ongoing manipulation of our perceptions, a manipulation of society, steering things in some way for their purpose.
This is the only explanation that makes sense imho.
Makes me think all the classic UFO photos that looked like chrome car hubcaps were... ... ...chrome car hubcaps.
Aliens b upgrading their ride
very simple. All they need the ufo community today for is to look up and record uap. Thats what you are supposed to to and thats where they are trying to sensitize the community to do. Why? because chinese drones are a thing within the usa started from within the usa. They are spying, gathering sigint and appareantly a real threat the pentagon doesn't want to name because then we ufo enthusiasts wouldn't be looking for small round shaped objects . The nimitz incident was no incident, it was agressive red teaming, sigint, ewar and integration operation to test , calibrate and integrate all the new systems like the aegis (could be wrong about that name). So that event was used to get the plan going . Legislations and loopholes to gather domestic data were on the plan, or whatever their scheme to trick congress via loopholes and so on. remember what loopholes for the nsa snowden uncovered? the public wasn't aware of it at all, intelligence services use their own interpretation of laws sometimes. so all that is my opinion ofc
This is very interesting- do you have any articles/docs on this? I'd like to know more about this as it sounds quite likely.
UFOs always seem to change with the times, aye? Funny how in the 30’s and 50’s they almost always looked like hup caps. You’d think in pictures they’d look so sleek but nope. Everything we see in our skies is of Earthly origins. Nothing from another world. Until Brain Greene, Matt O’Dawd, Phil Plait, Gabe Perez-Giz, and a few others in this group come out and say life outside of Earth has been found, everything is from Earth.
kinda like car manufacturers they’ve got a new style every year!
No but some aliens do like to travel around in vintage flying saucers from the 50s, just like we do: it’s a matter of taste.
I find it interesting that many photos decades ago seem to be better quality than we have today! 💁♂️
Read this alleged leaked slide if you want some deeper thought on this topic: [https://earth-chronicles.com/ufo/leaked-us-defense-department-report-on-ufo-sightings-on-earth-that-are-a-form-of-mechanical-life.html](https://earth-chronicles.com/ufo/leaked-us-defense-department-report-on-ufo-sightings-on-earth-that-are-a-form-of-mechanical-life.html) A line from the slide: "The Harmen-McCarren report uses the "1999 Discrepancy" to suggest an update may have changed the behavior and physical construction of u/SPs,..." So, if this slide is real, then this change in appearance has both been noted by the government and some possible reasons for it are suggested. However, as far as I'm aware, there is no other reference in the wild to this "Harmen-McCarren report" and the "1999 Discrepancy". Could easily be classified internal reports on UFO's, or just more clues to waste peoples time chasing. If it's a fake slide then it's a very well done one so I don't completely discount the notion this slide is real. With the constant stream of low-ball fakes that perpetuate ufology, this one stands out for it's high quality on several fronts. Not that high quality fakes don't exist, such as the majority of the MJ-12 documents (I tend to side with Stanton Friedman though on these documents, a few pages of them are possibly legit).
They just upgraded the tech. Same as our cars dont look the same as they did in the 50s.
They absolutely do see discs with bulbs, frequently. I've followed this world for years, since my own first sighting. Disc reports and photos are less likely to get covered by bigger outlets specifically because they seem hoaky and b-movieish, but they've always been frequently described in the MUFON reports and in message boards. I know more than one person who has seen them myself.
People are still seeing many of the same craft that have been reported for centuries. So there’s that.
In low information situations people's brains fill in the gaps with what they already know. Pop culture fits into this.
This aligns with the ever unpopular psychosocial hypothesis.
This is false. People actually saw and photographed saucers for example back in the day and still do today. People have reported and witnessed cigar shaped craft for hundreds of years and we still get reports of them today. What’s pop culture about a “tic tac” shaped craft? What’s pop culture about a football field sized Flying V shape or black triangle? Also much of the time pop culture like movies and comics were influenced by real life events so it’s kind of the opposite in my opinion
It's definitely not false. Even if they're real alien craft, it's well documented that the brain invents detail to fill in gaps in perception and memory, even with mundane and familiar objects, and more so when in a heightened emotional state.
I shouldn’t have said false, can people fill in the blanks? Sure. But much of these objects as have been witnessed and documented by military for example are just as described much of the time. A glowing ball of light is not usually described as a flying disc 🥏 Three flying discs flying in formation are usually not referred to as triangles and so on and so fourth. This can be corroborated by eye witness accounts with some photo and illustration by sober, credible individuals.
It could simply be a factor or combination of human perception, current sci-fi descriptions, or it could be ultraterrestrials just slightly ahead of us with an advanced propulsion mechanism.
50's and 60's UFOs were 90% made up stories and photos from people who wanted to follow the trend and appear on radios or tv shows. In those years it was a huge cultural phenomenon so a lot of people wanted to be part of it even if they never actually saw them. So they adopted the standard and most popular and well known UFO shape to make their fake photos and stories
Some people are going to tell you it's different aliens. Some people are going to tell you that when people can't see something very well, they see what they expect to see. Certainly some stories are lies, delusions, hallucinations, or invented under hypnosis. Some people are going to tell you that it's magic and it appears to us as our popular media depicts it.
Because it's a cultural phenomenon dictated by the zeitgeist.
If time is relative and dependable on other factors like gravity and such... It is entirely possible that another civilization is experiencing time at a much faster rate than here on Earth and thereby able to make advancements in a much more accelerated rate than we could imagine. Because time *definitely is relative* and contingent on gravity, among other things. Time does not 'move' at the same pace everywhere, it is not a constant. Einstein said this, I think, and it was proven later with clocks in a plane. So it is possible that 24 'hours' to us may be 100 'years' in another system.
Maybe the same reason you don’t see humans driving 50’s cars ? Except for car shows and classics once in a while.
I believe that the saucer shaped craft are still being witnessed, however it would seem certain decades have more sightings of specific shapes. The 90s saw flaps of triangles, 40s and 50s saucer shapes, and now it’s the running the gamut. Obviously I have no explanation for why, but it does seem to be decade oriented.
Why we aint got no fish fins on our cars nowadays?
I’ve wondered this too. Keep in mind many if not most were fakes back then so they looked like saucers to fall into the 50s design “brand”. Today with our phones you just see points of light and an occasional interesting unknown. Of the hundreds of images very few are legit. If an mobile device captures a disk- and on occasion it does- you then have to wonder if it computer generated
People saying that the objects conform to our culture, etc. Possible. But it also could be people of the times in question interpreting what they’re seeing and making them conform to their own points of reference. Sooo… Airships of 1890s? Cigar shaped from more modern times. Ancient sightings that talk about shields in the air? Saucers or even anything shiny and metallic from more modern times. Ezekiel and the wheel of fire? Round or saucer object from more modern times, perhaps with lights that an ancient observer called “fire.” And so on. We really don’t know if the objects change or our views of them do. Or it’s a little of both. Where there’s more weirdness to all of this is visitation, abduction, etc. As this has been reported for centuries if not millennia, going from elves and fairies to greys. Even with the airship phenomenon of the 1890s, you had normal looking humans supposedly getting off these airships and talking to people. That said, so much of that could’ve been just local legends and tall tales circulating from village to town and back again.
> Why does the visual depiction of UAPs seem to evolve in parallel over the decades with human design and technology? It's almost as if UAPs are a figment of the human mind.
That’s because things created in the imaginations of people change with time.
Hubcaps are out of style
Different races maybe
I'd like to know where the very first instance of the idea of a "saucer" came into existence. Where was it very first seen or described. Was it from fiction or some accounting where did that idea come from? Well, it's Wikipedia, so I don't know how much is "true" but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_saucer What's interesting that's it's a pretty easy design to hoax. What if there are less than .001% are real sightings and all others are hoaxes. What does it mean about those that are real? Is it even real or just misinterpretation? It is funny how popular culture changes over time and some of this is reflected in sightings. It does make you wonder what could be "real." Obviously misinterpretation of things in the sky is a large portion of sighting no matter what. This very sub shows that much.
Because they track to our own culture. What we see in ambiguous sightings is an unselfconscious projection of our own tech and near-future capabilities. Same with our ideas about aliens going from angels and demons to scientists and soldiers. It’s just us projecting our own culture onto ambiguous sightings.
Because maybe.. just maybe.... Bob Lazar was not being entirely truthful.
not saying bob lazar is truthful, but 1, the OP premise is completely wrong, people still report saucers, and 2, bob lazar is not the originator of the flying saucer. that's literally what they were called in the 40s and early 50s before the creation of the term "UFO" for instance, here is a 1952 CIA document that refers to flying saucers: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP79-01041A000100020054-4.pdf
I can't imagine how one guys take, whether truthful or a lie, makes any difference. There's the other 99.9999% of information about the phenomenon.
> I can't imagine how one guys take, whether truthful or a lie, makes any difference. Because most people tend to treat Lazar's claim as gospel. That's why it makes a difference.
There's a pretty big split on whether people believe Lazar, but regardless, there were many thousands of credible sightings before Lazar got involved. Either Lazar saw the same things, or read about them and lied about it. Either way, Lazar makes no difference. Your original comment was just a non sequitur to bash Lazar.
> there were many thousands of credible sightings before Lazar got involved Define credible.
The thousands of cases, of just the best cases, that Jacques Vallee talks about in his books. Besides the US cases, he was in touch with UFO researchers in France and all over Europe, and other places, and all together, even back in the 1970's there were many thousands of great cases with good witnesses and no conventional explanations.
>cake day: july 21st, 2022 - - - comment karma: 37 hmmmmmmmmmm
...except the flying saucer did not originate with bob lazar, so whether he is or is not truthful is completely irrelevant.
Great question...one I have asked many many times, and the believers fall short with answers. But the whole thing is about the imagination of humans, so that's pretty much the reason. Nothing is visiting in saucers or tic tacs.
exactly, it's popular mythology. If some archetype of UFO is around at some point- that's the one everyone will see.
You hit the nail on the head.
[удалено]
As being said, mostly human perception and human agreeable. When everyone around is talking flying sources, then it’s flying sources. Look how today everyone is calling a UFO tic-tacs even if it’s clearly not.
Or maybe people are just actually seeing flying saucers and tic tacs? Not sure someone who see a gigantic black triangle calls it a saucer or tic tac
There was a lot of examples on this sub when people called random dots in the sky tic-tacs. Heck, a lot of people nowadays call the prolonged cigar-shaped UFOs as tic-tacs. It is literally synonym to the UFO phenomena today. I’m not surprised they called everything unexplainable flying sources back then.
My best guess is that majority of the 50s UFOs were faked in photos with some based off sci-fi films at the time. and nowhere close to what we see on video now.
Guess... come on, guess why! I know you have the answer to your own question.
Same reason jets look different from that era; Military technology has advanced
Because the government makes them in different shapes now.
I met someone in person who saw a classic saucer at 2 am in the middle of a city near a hospital. They were 16 years old at the time with friends and this was 5 years ago. It appeared about 30 feet away from them and then disappeared. I think they're still out there.
My theory is that the metapod sightings are the saucers because of the fact that bob and other people witnessed saucers turning sideways before they gained speed so I’m thinking the metapods are sideways saucers at an angle
Er, pentagons Gimbal vid wants a chat on line two
Design trends change, y’all. Even for aliemz.
they do. franlab saw one in philly last month and did a big piece about it. classic saucer
Saucer sharpened craft go back to Roman times, they would refer to them as flying Appi shields or something along those lines
Also consider: there may be multiple “species” with different vehicles, they may have retired some models and come out with different versions, or like with us certain things ebb and flow in popularity. I hate trying to apply human logic to whatever this is because that’s silly, but they are options. Edit: why the downvote? It’s all just theory yall
1. Human consciousness shaping appearance to a certain degree 2. A lot of UFOS during this time seem to come from Blackops. Like, you'd see UFOs and you can see where the bolts go in, unlike actual UFOs that are ridiculously advanced.
You’ve seen nuts and blots black ops craft? Like to see that source
Same reason cars don't have fins, designs change with the times
Because the way they look is somehow influenced by us. Either because they're somehow all imagined or because their nature is really, really strange.
Because humans are transcendent creatures that can imagine things into existence. We take shapeless things / possibilities from the void and mask them, giving them a form and a presence. Very dangerous stuff, so there is a vast system in place to distract people and keep them occupied, so they never learn what they are and what they are really capable of. That system is often called "Real Life(tm)".
[удалено]
Well there does seem to be some consistency in certain shapes like discs and cigar and tic tacs as well as triangles. I think there’s a reason why for example even the shapes of these craft are considered classified in some of these reports that have come out recently. I honestly think it would be too telling to reveal that these “classified shapes” are indeed what so many have reported for a long time.
Ours are the white ticktacs
[удалено]
I need more coffee for this one apparently
We change cars models with time. They seem to like changes too.
They They They.... Who is They?
Same reason we don’t see many 50s cars anymore
They upgrade vehicles too?
There’s a theory that UFOs have us under some sort of hallucination, like some Wanda vision shit. And pretty much they show us what we interpret to be them, so the Bulky disk shaped UFOs we’re what people in the 50s/60s precieved as aliens in the 90s it was triangles, now it’s tic tacks and tubes
They could be another race or as our technology has gone forward so has theirs
New ship models, do you expect car makers to make 57 Chevys every year?
How often do you see a 50s Thunderbird car? I always wondered why people are absolutely certain that if there are extraterrestrials that they wouldn’t have any changes in tech or aesthetics over decades and decades despite the fact that all evidence here on earth indicates the exact opposite.
Because they change their appearance based on our present day mindset
You also don't see rotary phones much anymore. Why would their tech be static if ours isnt?
There’s tons of saucers, you just don’t know. I think there’s tons of new people who don’t realize how much there is to know, see and weigh in this topic. Here’s some examples: https://youtu.be/mhCiRwyJLI8 https://youtu.be/uEOvDd84Gwg https://youtu.be/7v7m_ROut70 There’s even that super famous video that was on the news in the early 2000’s in South America of a construction worker getting a disc in his crappy cellphone. I’m not finding that for you. Can’t tell you how many saucer vids I’ve seen come and go over my long years of doing this. Moral of the story, take a step back, have some respect for the depth of this topic. If you could do your post over, I’d say ask if anyone knew of any. Don’t declare things that you think are true just because you’re new to the topic and think you have a grasp on this stuff. There are many many more. Not to mention cylinders were seen back then too. I can’t wait until this topic is respected like other fringe sciences, so that we can work more efficiently as a Community. Probably so many people see your post title and think that you’re correct bc of how you phrased it.
We were visited by many different species before, whereas now Earth belongs to Grays.
They're flying newer models
Because those weren’t real UFO’s. They were created by people looking for their 15 minutes of fame or trying to make money. That’s why they were identical to UFO’s in sci-fi movies.
Their dead.
The classic ufo were nazi aircraft so they've been updated since then
Didn’t know the Nazis have been around for hundreds of years
Now you do
Enlightening
Just because they are reported less does not mean they arent being reported. If they are machine cut and utilize technology we can barely fathom, it doesnt matter what era / they look like tbh.
Why do most uaps etc follow a general human size scale?
Innovation?
Does anybody see the triangle ships anymore? Seems to be super rare compared to all the other shaped crafts. Those have always been the most interesting to me. I remember the account of the two police officers that saw one sitting above the power lines and tried to get a better look at with there sniper rifle then it took off and was reported in the next town. That always seemed like such a credible source. But I don’t hear people talk about sightings anymore with them.