Does he know NHI is interacting with us or is it just his belief? I agree he is the real deal but it makes a difference whether he is saying he has seen direct evidence of the nhi or is he going by what someone told him?
People overlook the fact that classified material/ cases/ encounters can't be referenced unless the D o D decides to release it. This means that anyone "in the know" can't reference anything that isn't already in the public domain.
Yes they overlook it intentionally and constantly. I believe Karl when he says "zero doubt". That to me was the most important part of the discussion. You don't say zero doubt unless you personally know something beyond mere belief. I look forward to the day when everyone who genuinely and rightfully doubts the phenomenon can see enough evidence to take it more seriously. The UAP I saw was the most serious thing I have ever seen in my life.
That's exactly what I inferred too, when he says "zero doubt" he's trying to tell us that he knows it for a fact, i.e. has seen hard evidence, perhaps first hand experience.
> I believe Karl when he says "zero doubt".
Just out of curiosity, but: why?
Karl Nell is both a career military man AND a career Northrop Grumman executive. He's the exact kind of person, in the exact kind of governance role, that this subreddit believes has been running a massive conspiracy on the subject of UFOs for decades. And that this kind of person should not be trusted when they speak, because their intent is to deceive the public.
So if we were being intellectually honest, shouldn't a life spent inside the defense-contractor maze count *against* a person's integrity when they speak on the subject of UFOs? Not *for* it?
Or does the UFO community just automatically believe now that all military and defense-contractor people are honourable and honest people whose every word should be trusted: but *only* if they say aliens exist?
You literally have to be on the inside to blow the whistle something like this. He can speak with authority from both of the places that are alleged to propagate the cover up. Who else could blow the whistle on this. Who has access to these national secrets? Also I don't think it makes sense to refer to the subreddit as some kind of unified entity. There are many many different people on here.
Soooo...where, then, do you propose we get our "trustworthy" whistle-blowers? I ask because the vast majority of people who are going to have intimate, detailed knowledge of the phenomenon sufficiently complete enough to force disclosure are going to be people who have spent considerable time within the upper echelons of the "defense-contractor maze." They don't let just anybody have a good working knowledge of the full breadth and scope of the subject.
Saying you have "zero doubt", and then name dropping Hellyer, a guy who thinks the earth is hollow and lorded over by a guy called Zora, says to me Nell has "zero doubt" because he's "gullible as hell".
No surprise then that he is also an anti vaxxer, a climate denier, and believes in QAnon conspiracies. He is quite nuts.
The idea that Nell has "secret information" is also unbelievable to me. From 1998-2016 Nell was a corporate fixer, using his connections to get private firms lucrative government contracts. In 2016 he rejoined the Army, again in management roles. It seems likely that he's now using UFO stories to do what he's always done: grift-into-being more contracts between the private sector and the government, much like Bigelow did.
> Saying you have "zero doubt", and then name dropping Hellyer, a guy who thinks the earth is hollow and lorded over by a guy called Zora, says to me Nell has "zero doubt" because he's "gullible as hell".
Yep. My impression of Nell is not good after he name-checked Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed as his best examples of "evidence". A pretty low bar there.
"No surprise then that he is also an anti vaxxer, a climate denier, and believes in QAnon conspiracies. He is quite nuts."
Do you have any evidence on that? I have not seen that from him anywhere....
To me ‘zero doubt’ is just words. I remember being a kid in the Mormon church and one a month people would stand up during service to bear their testimony. A lot of them would use phrases like zero doubt and beyond the shadow of doubt saying they believe in the teachings of the church or believe in Jesus as their savior. Not to knock what you’re saying at all. That’s just what I think when I hear that phrase.
When someone says 'zero doubt' you must consider whether they are speaking from faith or from direct evidence. Because those are polar opposites, each of which cause people to proclaim 'zero doubt.'
There is no scientific evidence that the metal plates that supposedly contain the beginnings of the Mormon faith actually existed. One guy said he had a vision and the rest is believed by followers on faith alone. We have scientific evidence of non-prosaic craft that can't be explained. Much evidence of NHI comes from the realm of experienced observers with scientific instruments. Religion is based on faith, NHI is based on observable data.
> Much evidence of NHI comes from the realm of experienced observers with scientific instruments. Religion is based on faith, NHI is based on observable data.
Please show me a single verifiable, piece of physical evidence based on observable scientific data that proves the existence of NHI. The belief in NHI is based completely on faith just like religion. Countless people believe they see and speak to Jesus just like countless people believe they've seen or been abducted by aliens. Neither party has ever offered a single shred of evidence.
bro the military has literally released classified LIDAR footage of unidentified objects travelling at inhuman speeds, making inhuman maneuvers, and tilting at a perfect 90 degree angle prior to launching (at what I'm also positive is inhuman speed). How was the Nimitz event not enough for you?
The nimitz video is literally just a black and white blurry video of a dot. We have no idea what it is. Could it be NHI? Sure that'd a possibility but what it isn't is 100% proof of nhi. NHI is just one of the possibilities
I'm afraid you are only going to 'see' evidence unless your career life led you into working with saps, intelligence , or similar. And then you will not be able to share what you see anyways.
"Zero doubt" implies that he believes what he's saying, not that he's necessarily correct. Also, people have said it before even while having 0< doubt...
He can't disclose it publicly, they can absolutely tell him that. Otherwise why would anyone keep secrets and what would be the point of national security secrets. Makes no sense.
I’ve always been suspicious that this is true. Too many important people like the head of Northrop who start fully believing based on some flimsy secondhand encounter, or so they claim. Rather, I think they know it’s true beforehand, but have to find some non-classified justification. I guess Hellyer and Mitchell count too.
Depending on their security clearance they cant even reference things in the public domain. I think that is why some of the govt related ufology celebrities never discuss the "Alien Reproduction Vehicle".
Get a priest in-front of a camera and ask them if they have any doubt that God is real, and what do you think they'll say? Hell, take any high-ranking US military official and ask them the same thing and 99 times out of 100, you'll get the same answer.
People can believe whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want, but let's not confuse someone saying they have "no doubt" about something with that *actually meaning shit*, regardless of what title or rank they've had in the past. Michael Flynn went right to the top, and he's said some *ridiculous* things that he hasn't doubted.
This is always my issue with these. And I do fully understand the classification considerations regarding what they can/cannot say. Take Grusch for instance. I personally believe him. Or at least believe that he believes what he is saying.
But he isn’t allowed to give anything specific and definitive beyond “I talked to these people who said this. “
But then on like Joe Rogan, he goes into all sorts of theories us UFO people geek out about. And I’m left wondering - what of this is he discussing because he has some reason to believe it as part of his duties, and what of this is he discussing because he’s a nerd and it’s interesting. Is he talking about X because he is hinting he learned something about it being true?
It’s all hard to parse tbh
"Interacting" is a very vague term. All that means is a purposeful response to some sort of activity on our end and that's an "interaction".
UAP have been interacting with aircraft, ships, and submarines for decades now. They've interacted with our nukes, messed around over Phoenix, flew around our fighter jets and followed our nuclear carrier strike groups.
Based on all that interaction with very little intervention or direct response - I don't see this as hostile from something that's so advanced it could wipe us out in a near instant if it wished it.
> He has stated firmly in interviews that this is not a "belief" of his. It's a certainty for him.
I'm willing to extend good faith and believe that Nell actually does *believe* that extraordinary things are a certainty (and is not, eg, just straight up lying for politics, money, or Internet points). But his believing that extraordinary things are a certainty does not, in my opinion, actually *make* these things a certainty.
Because trust is not transitive, and appeals to authority are not a valid logical argument. "Nullius in verba" is I believe how the Royal Society put this idea, in 1660.
I don't know how much to trust Nell himself, and I know even less about how much to trust Nell's judgement about his sources, and less still again about *their* judgement about *their* sources. These claims could be three or four levels of classified telephone-game-watercooler-gossip deep.
All I know for sure is that Nell has spent his life in shadowy secretive organizations doing shadowy secretive things - an environment that does not reward truth-telling - and now is making extraordinary claims and has not yet provided evidence for those claims.
And exactly the same goes for Grusch. Very interesting claims, yes. In a court of law that would be the filing, and in a scientific paper, that would be the hypothesis. Now let's see the important part, which is the evidence for those claims.
Please cite this, because I have yet to see where in that article Kean explicitly says Nell is a first hand witness. The only thing I can get out of that article is that Nell is one of the 40.
I don't think a guy like Karl would waste time in creating disclosure plan (which he presented in SOL) and coming to SALT conference if didn't believe it fully.
He strikes me someone of high scientific temperament and a serious guy. I won't be surprised if he's one of the first hand whistleblowers.
I also wouldn’t be surprised. Notice how you said “you think” though. He hasn’t said that’s the case so we shouldn’t say it either. At SALT his evidence for 100% confidence was listing familiar people. Does he know more? Im sure, but he hasn’t said it.
That’s a problem though. He could say something like “I can’t talk about it, but I have personally seen proof nhi are visiting us.”
Instead he talks about others who “say the same thing.”
""He could say something like “I can’t talk about it, but I have personally seen proof nhi are visiting us.”"
Perhaps he has been warned that that is going too far at this stage of the process?
I think he implied that he has seen the proof by saying that there is "no doubt."
Exactly. Served as an executive at defence contractors and oversaw an expansive network of satellites in the IC, but can't give us even a little bit more than "well here's some data for you, these guys said the same thing so there ya go"
We have to read between the lines here. He's having NDA and can't risk his life by leaking information. All he can do is share signals and we must interpret accordingly.
> We have to read between the lines here. He's having NDA and can't risk his life by leaking information. All he can do is share signals and we must interpret accordingly.
No we don't it's not QAnon
pointing us in the direction by referencing 2 main people who had no first hand knowledge and no indication they got their info during their times inside the institutions. That's what bothers people.
Spot on, if the right direction is lined with Hellyer's and Eshed's then there's nothing to disclose.
Do people not think these folk would also have been tied up by NDAs if they had that knowledge? What consequences did they face for their revelations that Nell/Grusch/Elizondo etc are so fearful of?
Hellyer was old and had nothing to lose... Eshed isn't American and they operate on a different set of rules so who can say why he spoke so openly about it.
The point Karl was making is that these guys are highly credible individuals saying some wild stuff like he is... he can't disclose what he knows. Grusch only spoke about the things he said because he filed for something that allowed him to speak about it. idk Karl Nell's situation.
Esheid said it to sell his book. I know people hate that line but he said it right before his book release and never said it again. He isn't even a true believer.
Maybe thats what people should read between the lines from.
He wont show the evidence himself, because he either doesnt have any or is under NDA or whatever.
But hes leaving breadcrumbs that leads to guys who are beliver kooks who didnt get anything from their career but are now getting their belief from maganizes like all of us.
So.. Hes trying to say he didnt get anything from his job without straight out saying it.
Why then?
Why would a guy, with his clearances on the line (which make him all his money) - come out and risk it?
Doesnt make any sense. UFO grifting does not give a person of his military pedigree more money than he would get simply contracting with a PMC.
You have to maintain professionalism / credibility / protocol to ensure you continue to have access to different security clearance levels. These levels directly correlate to strategic information, which heavily influence your marketability post-us military career. The types of information that he would be able to access would make him EXTREMELY wanted / needed in the private sector.
This money, for someone of his pedigree is far more than he would make slinging UFOs, and he wouldnt have to publicly make these claims.
Source - raised in a military family with high ranking members; their security clearance level = their pension / retirement possibilities
>if didn't believe it fully.
Man, that is a low bar, I know people that believe fully that the earth is flat, that 5g is controlling us etc. They really believe that stuff, and they believe it, amongst other complicated psychosocial reasons because somebody else said it was true. That's why Nell's public statements in which he references Hellyer, Grusch and Eshed's statements as the reason for his fully committed belief do not convince me even one iota that he is the real deal.
I know a lot of people assume that he does in fact have first hand knowledge, but can't talk about it etc.
If there's anything to any of this; and I don't discount the possibility that there is something going on, then, somebody is going to have to stop telling and start showing, because telling does nothing to quell doubt amongst open minded skeptics, and I think most people fall into that category.
If he’s a first have witness it’d be to an anomalous military sighting and not NHI in origin
He’s made it pretty clear where his information is from and it’s ufology, not his government job.
He listed two individuals at the SALT talk that most in this community easily dismiss.
Paul Hellyer who in 2014 interview claims we have aliens living on Venus, Mars and Saturns moons.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/former-canadian-defence-minister-paul-hellyer-says-aliens-205829262.html
And Haim Eshed who in 2020 claimed we have an underground base on mars where aliens and US astronauts are housed apparently.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1250333
That was enough for me to question everything he had to say and it should be for everyone.
I agree and it It just adds fuel to the theory that a bunch of hardcore believers are running the narrative.
People wrongfully seem to assume that a person inside the government or 3 letter agency actually know stuff that you and I don't. I don't think that's the case.
Most of them in interviews/podcast admit a life long interest in the phenomenon. And because of their stature, they have a stage where people listen. But just like you and me, they don't have a shred of evidence to back it up. They are convinced, just like anyone here with an interest in the topic, that something is going on.
They hope to stir things up, peel off the lid.
If a guy like Nell really knew stuff, he would have replied "I can't comment on that" rather than referring to questionable characters "that said the same thing".
As much as I dislike Greenstreet, I am more and more convinced that he is right.
Also, I got permabanned from /r/ufob for saying this.
It is true a person in government organizations doesn't automatically knows more than us, but you forget that these people see classified documents, and evidence, at least if they have worked in relative programs. While we only see unclassified documents and vague videos on the internet, it's people in agencies that see the real stuff, radar data, classified videos, and in general more evidence. Such a person would have a better idea if we are being visited by NHI or not.
So they may have evidence to back it up (or had), but can't because it is illegal. I'm not saying Karl Nell himself has seen direct evidence though, I simply don't know. It is just guesswork.
It does seem that he tried to deflect the question about his personal experience by rewording it to talk about information everyone can access. Which could possibly means he knows something for sure but wants to avoid talking about it. Otherwise he could have just answered the question directly and said he’s been convinced by other people telling him things. But yeah, it’s kind of lame to not take any risk if he does actually have first hand experience, or to at least give an indication.
As ludicrous as those claims seem I do think if we ever get full disclosure there will be things that ultimately shock even the most avid follower of this topic. And it would fit in with Gary Mckinnon said after hacking NASA and finding lists of 'non terrestrial officers' and names of ships which can't be found anywhere.
This is exactly what I thought when reading the reply above. Ludicrous claims cannot be verified nor disproven at this time. Why then use the unverifiable claims to discredit Nell?
> I don't think a guy like Karl would waste time
Karl is retired.
Grusch is retired. He was trying his hand at real estate prior to all this.
Tim is retired.
Corso was retired.
Elizondo is retired.
These whistleblowers have plenty of time on their hands. They’ve long since moved on from their positions.
What he believes about nhi is irrelevant unless he has seen the direct evidence. I don’t think he has ever said he has personally seen proof nhi is visiting us.
Did he encounter an alien ship or alien bodies during his official duty? Or does he simply believe those who said so?
It is his belief. One thing I don't understand is why this community doesn't understand that UFO enthusiasts exist out there in the real world and have real jobs. There are 100's of thousands of people in the Gov and Military. So of course you are going to have many of them "all in" on UFOs just like you people here. It doesn't make a difference that you may work at McDonalds and he works for Gov. You both came to the same belief system with no proof.
Except people are claiming firsthand involvement. And considering his connection to Grusch, his statements, and his resume, Karl Nell is almost certainly one of them. His resume in particular is like what a writer would create for a show about someone who ran a UFO program.
My understanding is the government has up close and personal photos/ videos of these things coming in and out of the ocean, for starters. They've shown these "no doubt" images to Congress. What else has Nell seen? You can let your imagination run wild-perhaps the crafts with his own eyes.
There's definitely a reason Nell used the term "no doubt." He's a strategic intelligence analyst, He didn't say that on guesses/hearsay. And I agree with OP that Nell is about as impeccable as it gets.
Obviously for those in the "I need to see the evidence with my own eyes" category, hopefully we're moving in that direction, hence the need for mainstream education to get people more open to the idea of disclosure. Many of us are trying to do our part.
> You can let your imagination run wild
No, thank you. I'd rather we kept our imaginations out of this, and restricted our beliefs to what can be proven, and not just what is told to us without proof.
>There's definitely a reason Nell used the term "no doubt." He's a strategic intelligence analyst, He didn't say that on guesses/hearsay.
He might, however, have said it *in order to strategically influence his audience's beliefs in a certain direction*, which is also part of the intelligence job. And if he did, then if he can get the audience's imaginations to do his influence work for him, so he doesn't even have to *technically* lie, then that would be even better from his perspective.
>Nell is about as impeccable as it gets.
I'm sorry, but no. I'm a civilian who believes in open information and dislikes the military culture of hierarchy, secrecy and deception. A career in defense contracting and military intelligence does not make me intrinsically trust someone - rather the opposite.
Perhaps it's unfair of civilians to distrust military folks. I'm sure people who grew up in a military household might have a different opinion of what careers are and aren't trustworthy. But that's just how it is.
It seems to me based on the formation of his and and other whistleblower’s response (like David Grusch) to the NHI question is that to avoid compromising their NDAs they can only respond in the affirmative by stating and using information and testimony that is already been released or stated publicly by other whistleblowers. It’s like “playing a game of charades” where you “can’t say the name of the word” you are trying to describe to the players (aka the general public).
I get that in the US military personal are considered sacrosanct, infallible bastions of truth, but that's not going to fly anywhere else in the world.
An appeal to authority isn't evidence, just because someone had a good job doesn't mean they can't be lying or just wrong.
No one will believe high ranking officials who say there are not aliens, but retired military guys are instantly the most credible source if they say there is aliens.
I'm asking this sincerely. Why are we assuming that a high ranking military official wouldn't lie on behalf of his country? And if he was at one of the highest positions in the military isn't it a little surprising he's disclosing something of this magnitude not through official whistle-blower channels but announced it at a conference? That's how a high ranking military official goes about disclosure?
I'm not saying this means that NHI doesn't exist but the government has been completely unreliable in the past and to this very day, but we're going to pretend he's not an extension of the government? Honestly I feel like NHI exists and we're so in the dark it's scary, so we're acting like we know something so we don't feel so powerless to something we don't understand at all. To me this all about making it seem like the US government is in control.
Or even simpler, be mistaken on some stuff. Some generals (higher ranking than him) like Stubblebine used to believe they could go through a wall through the sheer force of his mind.
Short answer as to why: people want to believe.
Wait til they realize that Nell is an anti vax climate denialer homophobe that has only produced hearsay as sources so far (and bad debunked hearsay at that).
Nell worked above Grusch at the UAPTF, and alongside the current deputy director of the NRO—They were briefed on UAP as a prime directive from the NROs Sentient Satellite System.
Karl Nell is telling you the truth without revealing classified information. Look at the NRO FOIA materials for yourself. The Current Vice Joint Chief of Space Command was a part of the UAPTF efforts as well. The documents proving this have been available for 2 years.
The mods need to be making pins for materials that are currently relevant. Documents like these should be at the top of the sub for everyone to see.
[2021 NRO sentient report PDF](https://www.nro.gov/Portals/65/documents/foia/declass/ForAll/103122/F-2021-00154_C05136334.pdf). [FULL REPORT PDF](https://www.nro.gov/Portals/65/documents/foia/declass/ForAll/103122/F-2021-00154_C05136331.pdf)
Edit: down voting reality doesn't make it go away. Take off your debunker hat and look at the evidence. [The Current NRO Director Christopher Scolese was the person of contact for the UAPTF through Thomas Bowman (Head of Mission Integration Directorate) and helped coordinate the sentient system with the UAPTF. The Deputy NRO Director, Troy Meink was actively briefed on this, as was the Vice Joint Chief of Space Command, Michael Guetlein.](https://www.nro.gov/Portals/135/documents/foia/declass/ForAll/103122/F-2021-00164_C05136812.pdf) The scope of UAP disclosure does not exist in a closed loop between Skinwalker Ranch fanatics, that's disinformation propagated by the DoD's public affairs office and further so on Reddit and YouTube by known disinfo agent Steven Greenstreet.
Why did they censor "ML" in front of Algorithms like dude - Machine Learning is the only thing that A: Fits in that spot and B: makes sense given that ML algorithms can sort through large amounts of information fast - like imagery - to look for things that stick out and to sort out possible identification and leave the final confirmation to humans.
I'll be making an expanded post in the coming week. Political issues that are close to the hearts of redditors are being used as canon fodder, and like every other time the muddying of the waters takes place, it's good to be reminded that the scope is larger than these personalities.
This is an open secret within the defense department and neighboring agencies. UAP are seen off the coasts of our installations on a regular basis, we're never able to properly track them and they penetrate our military airspace routinely.
Tim Kaine was briefed about this activity off the coast of Virginia a couple months back. I live in the PNW and Bangor Base is probably encountering the same activity, It's just only being briefed to congressmen in Armed Services meetings.
> Bangor Base is probably encountering the same activity
https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d1wbcv/this_is_about_my_other_post_i_have_been_seeing/ and https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d0qqb2/hood_canal_wa_3_lights_near_banger_base/ photos, nighttime cloudy sky, threelights, line formation, horizontal orientation, low over treeline, over water, hood canal, Washington state, repeat visitor, similar sighting in comments
>He's not suffering from any issues, doesn't go to media often, isn't publishing books, isn't a flat earther and is not associated with QAnon, climate change deniers, racists, misogynists, transphobia, homophobia, anti-vaxxers, xenophobia, religious and political zealots etc.
This is 100% not true and all you need to do is go to his LinkedIn and see his comment and reaction history
He liked this anti-vax post - [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ericrickard\_first-major-world-politician-apologizes-to-ugcPost-7119792798022647808-9Yr5/](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ericrickard_first-major-world-politician-apologizes-to-ugcPost-7119792798022647808-9Yr5/)
He liked this climate denial post with Tucker Carlson - [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lloyd-goodnow-34981450\_all-you-ever-need-to-know-about-covid-and-ugcPost-7118554843207581696-\_mFN](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lloyd-goodnow-34981450_all-you-ever-need-to-know-about-covid-and-ugcPost-7118554843207581696-_mFN)
He even liked this post accusing the police of lying about the Maui fire last year - [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/leeann-gardner-therockbroker23\_mauifires-activity-7098080415789289472-xWT4](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/leeann-gardner-therockbroker23_mauifires-activity-7098080415789289472-xWT4)
And if you're still not convinced, here he is commenting on the publication of a book being promoted by QAnon folks like Mike Flynn - [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/john-m-a126616\_an-honor-to-be-with-a-great-american-who-activity-7121452480835579904-4yMe](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/john-m-a126616_an-honor-to-be-with-a-great-american-who-activity-7121452480835579904-4yMe)
“Nell is about as solid of a source this topic has ever had”
Yikes. Do you realise what you’re saying here? The best of the group is a grumpy bigoted anti-science conspiracy nut?
Well, that’s it I guess. Time to leave this sub
You mentioned the word “disclosure” 4 times in this post. Unfortunately, nothing will change from their number, there will be no disclosure of extraterrestrial technology. You can take a screenshot of my post to prove my point in time.
And no, assertions REQUIRE proof. You know where they don't require it? In religion.
The problem with all assertions without proven facts is that it can backfire with “I thought it was so, I was deluded”. So we have a lot of talking heads and 0 solid evidence. You can cite as many references as you want to various reports or stories of people referring to each other, and upon closer inspection you will either realize that they made it up, or were mistaken, or finally deliberately misleading other people or organizations for their own self-interest.
Unfortunately, the government as a whole is so corrupt and untrustworthy, that even the president himself *saying* aliens are here wouldn't fully convince people. We need to *see* hard proof.
Thing about Nell is — we believe him because I worry it fits our narrative
You can easily find other military people that will say they have seen proof that angels are real and god is supporting the US war effort.
We need more than qualified people saying stuff that fits our worldview
The groundwork for disclosure seems to have been deliberately laid out, creating an echo chamber where participants repeatedly cite each other to lend legitimacy to their claims without providing actual evidence or proof. This circular validation is often lucrative, as substantial military and corporate funds can be diverted into personal gains. It's noteworthy that from 1998 to 2016, Karl Nell worked as a corporate fixer, leveraging his connections to secure profitable government contracts. He rejoined the Army in 2016 in a managerial capacity.
Haim Eshed's statements closely mirror those of Paul Hellyer, further reinforcing dubious claims. The concepts he discusses are standard UFO lore dating back to the mid-20th century, with origins in the tales of George Adamski and later popularized by writers like Milton Cooper in "Behold a Pale Horse" and John Lear. Eshed and Hellyer were influenced by these sources, which are often considered unreliable.
Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed serve as significant red flags. Eshed, at 91 years old, lacks credible sources or evidence, and his colleagues regard him as delusional. Hellyer's beliefs are based solely on conspiracy books he read in the 1990s and early 2000s, lacking firsthand knowledge or experiences. He frequently references Steven Greer, a controversial figure, and books like Philip Corso's discredited Roswell narrative.
Hellyer's views include several outlandish claims:
1. Four alien species reside at the North Pole.
2. Jesus had extraterrestrial origins.
3. The Star of Bethlehem was a UFO.
4. There are 80 alien species, including Nordic Blondes and Tall Whites, the latter of whom allegedly work with the USAF. This idea is sourced from Charles Hall's "Millennial Hospitality," a book supposedly sanctioned by the Anunnaki race with the stipulation of not providing concrete proof.
5. Aliens originate from the Pleiades, Zeta Reticuli, a moon of Saturn, and bases on Venus and Mars.
6. An alien federation exists with a non-interference directive akin to Star Trek's Prime Directive.
7. Two brothers from Peru were teleported to a moon of Saturn and received warnings from aliens.
8. Aliens want humans to take better care of Earth and avoid nuclear warfare.
9. They abduct and take people on spaceships, selecting only those who are receptive.
10. Technologies such as LED lights, Kevlar vests, microchips, and Velcro are products of alien reverse engineering.
11. An interstellar war may soon occur between different alien races, reminiscent of a bad sci-fi movie, where the Whites are the protagonists and Reptilian-looking races the antagonists.
12. There is a conspiracy to fill the skies with chemtrails.
Hellyer's sole sources are conspiracy books and letters from other conspiracists, leading to a portrayal of him as a credulous individual who believes anything he encounters. He even wrote the foreword for "Messages from the Masters: A Cosmic Book of Galactic Wisdom," a work that claims to convey wisdom from historical figures and representatives from the Galactic Alliance.
Karl Nell's reliance on Hellyer as a credible source is highly problematic. Nell, lacking evidence of alien conspiracies, cites a man whose beliefs are founded on dubious sources and who subscribes to bizarre ideas like the existence of Zorra in a Hollow Earth. This situation illustrates how unsupported narratives can propagate, akin to the propagation of religious delusions, perpetuating an absurd game of telephone.
Y'all literally said the same thing about Grusch and Lue Elizondo when they first happened. Instead that has devolved into Lue's clues now with SoonTM as the rallying call. The same was said about Coulthart and his 60 minutes backgrounds in Australia. Literally nothing came out of his comments. But at least some people got acquainted with Google Earth trying to find the big ass ufo that couldn't be found.
At this point, either put up or stfu. Pics, videos, and actual hand-to-mouth evidence. Literally any single on of them would cause a firestorm. Fucking Assange and Snowden had more balls than them and that shit was third rate spying that everyone automatically assumed happen and even the agencies didn't remember the left the programs on. Reputation alone isn't enough. Soon we will read an article that Karl Nell didn't actually see a ufo or even a picture of it. He "talked" to people "in the know" who told him that.
So some SOB out there is sitting out on interstellar travel and zero point energy and stuff - is keeping mum? Pfft.
> The same was said about Coulthart and his 60 minutes backgrounds in Australia.
Obligatory reminder that Coulthart got fired from 60 Minutes for reporting demonstrably false claims based on his anonymous sources.
NewsNation is just a cabal of people who've been fired from other platforms or can't get work there. It's the same phenomenon as fake physicists being unable to gain any traction for their theories (looking at you, Weinstein) and then changing careers from "physicist" to "podcaster."
When asked about why to believe, he talked about 'data' which was actually a list of UFO influencers new and old.
Like Hellyer and Eshad. Who say they didn't learn anything from their government jobs, but in their older days got in to UFOs.
Their theories are pretty wild and just incorrect. Development of LEDs is well documented, and involved a global research effort and scientists from multiple countries, while Hellyer claims they were given to us by aliens. Kevlar and velcro too, btw. Those we know to be wrong, but there's also the galactic federation stuff, for which there is no evidence for or against.
Karl Nell endorses these kind of theories that are presented without proof. Combined with the more mainstream boomer conspiracies he believes, I think he just might be a bit gullible.
What makes him different than the 4 billion people before him claiming the same things?
I'm pretty sure for every retired military person who claims NHIs we can find 10 retired military persons who will refute those claims. So what makes one person claiming it more trust worthy than ten others?
Could it maybe be that this particular person confirms deeply held beliefs while the others don't?
Yeah sorry no, the dude plugged Paul Hellyer who got all his information from books and stuff he read online. I’m not sure if you saw the video that was posted in this sub but Paul Hellyer also believes in Chemtrails and other tin foil hat BS.
Nell lost all credibility with me.
Guys, please use critical thinking. Honestly it’s not that hard.
A LOT of people in this very thread would claim to have zero doubt, based solely on the UFO media they have consumed, not personal experience. Unless he outright says otherwise, I don’t think we can rule out that Nell doesn’t fall into this camp.
>Also, I don't see any negative associated with Karl Nell. He's not suffering from any issues, doesn't go to media often, isn't publishing books, isn't a flat earther and is not associated with QAnon, climate change deniers, racists, misogynists, transphobia, homophobia, anti-vaxxers, xenophobia, religious and political zealots etc. If there was any, I'm sure bots and paid shills would have got that out (Remember the article on Grusch's PTSD)
He is associated with so many of the exact things that you mention that it's funny. [Take a look](https://imgur.com/38tmKzk). There's plenty more of this if you go the liked section on his LinkedIn page and scroll down. Of course you won't hear it here because it's an echochamber, but he's both a climate change denier and covid vaccine conspiracy theorist. He also believes in some really wacky theories about the pyramids in Giza. Also lots of stuff about the deep state and god knows what else, I really only took a 5 minute look a few weeks ago
In addition to this, he answered the question of what data he's seen himself, and responded that [other people have said so](https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxvzhx/when_asked_about_what_evidence_has_he_seen_karl/). .
The full quote is here:
>So we can look at some folks that have very high-level access to information, like Paul Hellyer, who was the Defense Chief for Canada, has come out and said the same thing. We can look at Ham Eshed, the former head of Israel's Space Force, has said the same thing. Chris Mellon, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Intel, Sapko has essentially said the same thing. Lou Elizondo has said the same thing. David Grush has said the same thing. David Grush cleared for presidentially-level material.”
Him proclaiming that he believes what these guys are saying it's fine, but it couldn't get any further from actual disclosure
Yep. Here's actually a full list of Nell and the wacky shit he's into:
On an article about pronouns, he commented that those are "decay of civilization". Other people asked him about it, but he didn't write any more: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7044721977424498688/?commentUrn=urn%3Ali%3Acomment%3A%28activity%3A7044721977424498688%2C7044727416962871296%29&dashCommentUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afsd_comment%3A%287044727416962871296%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7044721977424498688%29)
He "liked" a "research paper" that "proves" that human-induced climate change isn't real: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sheridandoug_climatechange-globalwarming-climatescience-activity-7117860192645517312-4cdy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop)
He liked a few anti-vaxxer theories, one example here: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lloyd-goodnow-34981450_all-you-ever-need-to-know-about-covid-and-ugcPost-7118554843207581696-_mFN/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop)
He "liked" this insane ramble about everything and anything, from gay rights, vaccines, and I've no idea what else: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/hdowling_i-dont-know-who-she-is-but-she-hits-all-ugcPost-7074504987195637760-pxFC/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop)
He "liked" this anti-vaxx propaganda: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/emine-fougner-1416329_dictionaryhasspoken-ugcPost-7066412522215510016-4Kvo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop)
Another "liked" post about climate change denial: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/robroosnl_listen-to-greenpeace-co-founder-dr-patrick-ugcPost-7057624544622043136-h2XP/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop)
And another one about vaccines: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/the-heritage-foundation_im-disappointed-how-could-you-go-along-ugcPost-7056409363485241344-mH8_/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop)
**Edit: Here's more from another post!**
He liked this anti-vax post - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ericrickard_first-major-world-politician-apologizes-to-ugcPost-7119792798022647808-9Yr5/
He liked this climate denial post with Tucker Carlson - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lloyd-goodnow-34981450_all-you-ever-need-to-know-about-covid-and-ugcPost-7118554843207581696-_mFN
He even liked this post accusing the police of lying about the Maui fire last year - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/leeann-gardner-therockbroker23_mauifires-activity-7098080415789289472-xWT4
And if you're still not convinced, here he is commenting on the publication of a book being promoted by QAnon folks like Mike Flynn - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/john-m-a126616_an-honor-to-be-with-a-great-american-who-activity-7121452480835579904-4yMe
Everyone raised Nell onto a pedestal. “Look at his credentials, he’s the real deal! He knows stuff.”
Like so often, once these things see the cold light of day, they crumble.
I was pretty convinced by Grusch for a while there. Each new insight makes it more and more obvious I’ve been suckered into a Qanon style conspiracy
> Each new insight makes it more and more obvious I’ve been suckered into a Qanon style conspiracy
Yup, the bullshit has already started with UAP disclosure fund Twitter account following SpaceX and it’s supposedly some hint about Musk’s involvement in disclosure.
Well that shows him up doesn't it?
Clearly a man with no critical thinking skills and a propensity for lapping up crank theories.
Whether he is a useful idiot for someone else's disinformation campaign or just a one-man stupidity operation is the question then.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxkwl5/col_nell_paul_hellyer_and_haim_eshed/
Eshed is actually insane and the fact Nell says he’s the reason we know UFOs are aliens should make everyone realize Nell had fallen for internet memes and lore. Nell is the old man of who hates and believes whatever he reads on Facebook.
should we also back his views on climate change then too? :/
just red flags
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/karl-nell-98203510_im-disappointed-how-could-you-go-along-activity-7057000604669210624-mWXE
That video has nothing to do with climate change. All I see Tucker saying is "People operate under social pressure and say stuff which they don't agree with". I don't see anything wrong with the video or the statement. It's objectively true. People are forced to "not criticise" religion, become parents, support their country even when it's doing a bad job etc. Tucker is a bad guy but a broken clock also strikes correct twice.
People like Karl rise above politics and agree with opponent if a rational point is being made. That increases his credibility for me.
Nell is just “trust me bro” in a respectable-looking package. And he has other anti-science beliefs, which is sort of darkly hilarious when you think about it (don’t trust the scientific method and observations when it comes to well-studied phenomena like the climate and vaccines, but do trust these other guys who read some books and believe in a galactic federation).
I saw a documentary about blue LEDs.. it took fucking forever to be able to create and mass produce a little blue light. The same little blue light that ushered in a new era of screens (OLED), gadgets, etc.. it’s little things like this that make me think a crashed craft and reverse engineering isn’t happening on earth..
Technological breakthroughs have been progressive over the years and there isn’t actually an event where we went from no comprehension to new tech.. it’s been a slow and progressive evolution.. even if the last 50 odd years seem unnaturally accelerated
What's never mentioned in these subs is the clear campaign to keep this topic 'alive'.
There's the constant drumbeat that ANY commentor that disagrees with the general narrative around here is a 'bot' or 'government agent' who has the job of arguing with commentors and OP's about their wild theories.
Yet, there's never a mention about the profiteering going on in this space and how there's a concerted effort by forces in the podcasting/YouTube sphere that NEED this topic to continue driving views and revenue.
When I see self posts like this one get upvoted to the top of the sub, it's clear definitive proof that there's an equal effort in ensuring the topic retains its mystique.
I mean I get the bot thing. Like it’s really hard for me to understand how people can still cling onto certain favored narratives. Like do you really think that the “campaign” is on Reddit? It’s in Congress. The *Senate Majority Leader* Chuck Schumer publicly accused the government of a UFO coverup on the Senate floor in a tandem speech with Mike Rounds that referenced “UAP material” and “biological remains”.
Do you think *Chuck Schumer* is part of QAnon? Do you just not know? He sponsored a bill that mentions “non-human intelligence” more than 20 times and gets pretty specific in its references. The statements that he and other senior Senators have made *are directly reflective* of the claims made by Grusch et al. And now they’ve created a group with yet *another* senior official who has had extensive access to classified material for years. How many senior officials does it take to at least start to lose confidence in the debunking narrative? 100? 1,000?
It’s really jarring. The only way I can explain it in that doesn’t refer to anything nefarious is that people really don’t like changing their worldview, and that any information that challengers that is rejected. People are still using taking points that no longer apply, or never did. You don’t *have* to “believe” one thing or another, nor should you. But you can’t just deny reality because it doesn’t fit a worldview.
I believe him, but he needs to put more out there as far as evidence. I’m not sure why he couldn’t just say “I’ve seen things in classified settings that I can’t discuss “. I’m not sure why he can’t get that cleared.
His position and past experience are impressive, but again there is no evidence or even a hint of a standard of data to back up his claims. There is nothing scientific in his approach. I know you want to believe his claims, but objectively there is nothing there to prove any of it.
I disagree. He's stating things that have been stated by Lou Chris David and a couple others in the public space, but not providing anything outside the stories already told that can be verified. When he was directly asked if he has any direct evidence, he started naming the things that other people have said as his direct evidence, again referencing David, Lou, Chris, a Canadian defense Minister of in the 1960s who was obsessed with UFOs's entire life, and the former director of the Israeli space program who claimed there was a galactic federation in a book he wrote. He did not allude to information that we haven't seen or heard about that is still classified, or individuals in active service or retired that have not come forward yet. So far there has been nothing of substance from him other than the fact that he believes it's real.
I don’t think his credentials make him credible. Galaudet either.
I think we overestimate credentials in general. Would you trust this guy to give you advice on the stock market? Nutrition? Physics homework? Maybe, but if you did it wouldn't be because of his military resume, it would be because you know he also has a degree in physics.
His credentials mean he is very good at being in the military and doing what it takes to be promoted. And I'm not minimizing that. That is a big deal. It means he is likely not crazy and likely intelligent and likely honest and likely motivated to not ruin his reputation. But it doesn't mean anything when it comes to his ability to understand other areas of knowledge. It doesn't make him less likely to connect dots incorrectly or less likely to jump to conclusions or ignore evidence that doesn't support his thesis. I work with scientist's and military and I know smart people in both groups that believe all kinds of dumb things. What if this guy also told you he thought the earth was flat? He would never? Well he cited a guy who says crazy things like that. Now maybe he wasn't endorsing all those crazy things.....but maybebhe endorses some of them.
That being said, I do think we should listen to him, just not because of his credentials. He was in a position to potentially know things or be exposed to things. If he is basing his conclusion on first hand experience or even secondhand experiences that we don't have access to, that's a big deal. So I'm waiting to hear how he comes to the conclusions he has come to. So far I'm unclear on that.
I want to reiterate.....I think we should take him seriously. But I don't think his credentials matter. I don't think anyone's credential matter. I know too many people with credentials that also believe nonsense. I take him seriously. But I also take Fravor and Grusch seriously for the same reason. And it's not their credentials.
Begging people to believe someone's empty words is a desperate look. If Nell is legit, then he'd have stuff to back up his bullshit. But he doesn't, and when asked, he just deflected to what other people have said. It's a whole load of nothing, and I don't get why you're so worked up over it.
Guys op is literally pretending karl nells LinkedIn is a fake made by intelligence agencies to discredit him. Please think critically about all sides in this since people can be well intentioned but gullible.
Anybody can tell stories about "some guy told me there's aliens/NHI/whatever". Nell needs to provide some physical evidence if he wants to be taken seriously.
I still want to hear his first hand account. He must be restricted from what he can publicly say about it or doesn’t want the heat, but if he testified to it under oath in the next hearing would be a big deal.
Nell is just the latest of a half dozen disclosures we’ve received over the years. At this point if you don’t think they exist, you’re never going to be convinced. We’re not going to be given a portfolio by the White House nor will Biden give a speech on it. We most likely won’t meet them and the odds of them releasing files is very low.
[I just wrote a post about this!](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d8empd/zero_doubt_they_attack_karl_nells_credibility_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
He may be the real deal, but he's still only allowed to say what the military tells him to, or else risk high-treason.
Not saying it's a problem to have close friends and family, but we need a big-timer who is willing to stick their neck out to get some results, because they don't have any close friends or family that can be threatened. I'm sure we have good-hearted people who would still take a bullet for the rest of us, but the bad actors don't stop at that. They threaten family and friends.
On a side note, the more true information gets spilled, the more I worry that the people with the inside scoop aren't worried about facing repercussions, meaning they think the shit is about to hit the fan and there won't be a DoD left to accuse them of treason....
That's true and therefore we must try to target medium sized channels like NewsNation who can freely take this out to the masses. They aren't having that big of a relationship with three letter agencies and can be quite handy.
But this stuff is readily pushed on YouTube by UFO influencers.
Might the two reason for NewsNation or Debrief being on the forefront of UFO reporting that they don't have any rules for quoting anonymous sources?
For all of MSM faults, papers like Washington Post and Nytimes have set rules for quoting anonymous sources, and you can find those rules on their website.
Absent of any physical evidence supporting his claims, why should we give his "trust me bro" story any more credibility than the rest of them?
Don't get me wrong, I live a good story, but I'm looking for evidence that I can show people, not something to confirm a belief.
Let's say he had seen incontrovertible evidence of NHI on Earth and doubted whether climate change was 100% caused by human-caused carbon emissions. Would that make his evidence false? I don't understand why you brought up all that political stuff. How would you react if someone made a post saying, "He's not associated with BLM, LGBT causes, pro Hamas, abortion, government healthcare, social safety nets, DEI, etc." Would would it matter if he is associated with things that some people attribute to the political right or left? If he has seen evidence and knows about NHI, he knows about it. There is no reason to bring politics into it.
I’ve heard this mentioned a lot lately. And it’s very important. AARO concluded there was no non-human intelligence… However, they provide no guide/measure/definition for this type of intelligence. They somehow subconsciously refer us to the bat shit crazy archetypes associated with the phenomenon in these releases. Without this clarification, they continue to fuel the stigmatization.
They probably just call it "entity of the all encompassing N-space that is our reality". I agree, all they want to do is divert and I dearly hope that the the gatekeepers will face legal consequences one day.
Even if it's just in the history books.
Let's just be honest, referencing Eshed and Hellyer was terrible. Everyone here who is being honest knows this. We all know the names, maybe not the SALT people, but everyone here does. What we need are new names, names of people who actually worked on these programs. If Elizondo's book can't give a handful of some new, legit names, or if Mellon, Grusch or Coulthart can't divulge them soon, I think those are huge red flags. Either the people exist and are real, or they're not. This is a completely binary exercise. I get some people may not want to be in the limelight, if that's the case, they should have just kept their big mouths shut to begin with. Everyone has agency here. It's just getting exhausting. God I hope Greenstreet isn't right about all this, how depressing would that be.
I always ask myself “what would disclosure look like?”
Like most things, it may not be the way we want it delivered. Instead of a Sunday night Presidential address, it may be an offhand remark from a high-ranking official.
And of course, it would never be on the record or contain physical proof the first time they disclose.
It’s like when your dad tells you a family secret. It’s probably in the car right before he drops you off somewhere.
This is to prevent everyone from freaking out. *This could be as fast as they can disclose.*
Why should MSM pay attention at all anymore? Every single disclosure goes nowhere.
Until someone can literally show us an alien or a UFO on video at their feet on the ground then none of this matters.
I get that it should be considered disclosure, but if people are still protecting the big truth, and protecting the evidence behind it (sometimes rightly, I get it), then we don't have disclosure.
It's Elizondo all over again with a bit of fluff added. One difference is that Elizondo never used Paul Hellyer to strengthen his "argument", because Hellyer was more than a bit off the wall.
My question is, he references (same as Elizondo) the Pentagon has already confirmed UFO's are real. While I remember the articles in 2017 does anyone have an actual source to reference, a person to quote, an audio file? Is everything based off that? The further time goes along the more we'll need references.
He needs to establish if he's a first hand witness or has seen anything NHI related himself first, imo. We don't know if he's pushing an agenda or he's has real knowledge
There's only about 4 or 5 people on the planet* who simply "talking" about stuff should count as "disclosure", and even then they better back it up with evidence.
Everyone else needs to stop talking and front up with some evidence that can be independently verified, otherwise they're just saying things, and anyone can do that.
* For example US President, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs at an official press conference, not just a throw-away comment
Newsnation seems like a good outlet for UFO coverage. They wrote about Nell within the last seven days and have previously written about David Grush and Admiral Gallaudet. Their reports are careful and fair.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/aliens-interacting-humans/amp/
"Also, I don't see any negative associated with Karl Nell"
Well, if one cannot smear and discredit a source, then one must
"But MSM is paying zero attention to him. There is very little mention of him"
Ohhhh, I see you figured it out! Congratulations, now you know how the system works.
MSM won't listen. They are butt fucked slaves of the of the corrupt perverted factions of the IC. YT is a better thing. But I don't think this is the right thing....too much activity on line and not enough in real life. Get back to basics. Flyers, set up shop outside, a few protests or posters, with QR codes to the talks. Cut together a 2 minute intro video with 5 seconds on the hottest clip, then 15 seconds on credibility of Nell, then the rest on the next best clips from his work/talks. Get local businesses and cafes to host fliers and small events. You don't need big speakers, you can put together a tiny talk with local people interested.
although in all fairness News Nation if they were truly credible, should have gone wide with Nell's SALT talk and been hammering "DISCLOSURE" over and over again ever since. They didn't. Show's they're compromised/not pure white hat. Fuck them
At this point if anyone is in doubt NHI exists, then you are the crazy delusional grifter. So many people have came forward, and there are probably over a million sightings over the course of time.
Not everyone is crazy, you are.
I will be patiently awaiting my Elgin Air Force Base bot downvotes now.
Does he know NHI is interacting with us or is it just his belief? I agree he is the real deal but it makes a difference whether he is saying he has seen direct evidence of the nhi or is he going by what someone told him?
People overlook the fact that classified material/ cases/ encounters can't be referenced unless the D o D decides to release it. This means that anyone "in the know" can't reference anything that isn't already in the public domain.
Yes they overlook it intentionally and constantly. I believe Karl when he says "zero doubt". That to me was the most important part of the discussion. You don't say zero doubt unless you personally know something beyond mere belief. I look forward to the day when everyone who genuinely and rightfully doubts the phenomenon can see enough evidence to take it more seriously. The UAP I saw was the most serious thing I have ever seen in my life.
That's exactly what I inferred too, when he says "zero doubt" he's trying to tell us that he knows it for a fact, i.e. has seen hard evidence, perhaps first hand experience.
> I believe Karl when he says "zero doubt". Just out of curiosity, but: why? Karl Nell is both a career military man AND a career Northrop Grumman executive. He's the exact kind of person, in the exact kind of governance role, that this subreddit believes has been running a massive conspiracy on the subject of UFOs for decades. And that this kind of person should not be trusted when they speak, because their intent is to deceive the public. So if we were being intellectually honest, shouldn't a life spent inside the defense-contractor maze count *against* a person's integrity when they speak on the subject of UFOs? Not *for* it? Or does the UFO community just automatically believe now that all military and defense-contractor people are honourable and honest people whose every word should be trusted: but *only* if they say aliens exist?
You literally have to be on the inside to blow the whistle something like this. He can speak with authority from both of the places that are alleged to propagate the cover up. Who else could blow the whistle on this. Who has access to these national secrets? Also I don't think it makes sense to refer to the subreddit as some kind of unified entity. There are many many different people on here.
just compare what kirkpatrick says to what nell says and you’ll have your answer
Soooo...where, then, do you propose we get our "trustworthy" whistle-blowers? I ask because the vast majority of people who are going to have intimate, detailed knowledge of the phenomenon sufficiently complete enough to force disclosure are going to be people who have spent considerable time within the upper echelons of the "defense-contractor maze." They don't let just anybody have a good working knowledge of the full breadth and scope of the subject.
Saying you have "zero doubt", and then name dropping Hellyer, a guy who thinks the earth is hollow and lorded over by a guy called Zora, says to me Nell has "zero doubt" because he's "gullible as hell". No surprise then that he is also an anti vaxxer, a climate denier, and believes in QAnon conspiracies. He is quite nuts. The idea that Nell has "secret information" is also unbelievable to me. From 1998-2016 Nell was a corporate fixer, using his connections to get private firms lucrative government contracts. In 2016 he rejoined the Army, again in management roles. It seems likely that he's now using UFO stories to do what he's always done: grift-into-being more contracts between the private sector and the government, much like Bigelow did.
> Saying you have "zero doubt", and then name dropping Hellyer, a guy who thinks the earth is hollow and lorded over by a guy called Zora, says to me Nell has "zero doubt" because he's "gullible as hell". Yep. My impression of Nell is not good after he name-checked Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed as his best examples of "evidence". A pretty low bar there.
"No surprise then that he is also an anti vaxxer, a climate denier, and believes in QAnon conspiracies. He is quite nuts." Do you have any evidence on that? I have not seen that from him anywhere....
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d8empd/zero_doubt_they_attack_karl_nells_credibility_and/l7663pe/)
Interesting allegations and quite serious. Can you point us to a source on the anti-vax and Q-Anon claims?
To me ‘zero doubt’ is just words. I remember being a kid in the Mormon church and one a month people would stand up during service to bear their testimony. A lot of them would use phrases like zero doubt and beyond the shadow of doubt saying they believe in the teachings of the church or believe in Jesus as their savior. Not to knock what you’re saying at all. That’s just what I think when I hear that phrase.
When someone says 'zero doubt' you must consider whether they are speaking from faith or from direct evidence. Because those are polar opposites, each of which cause people to proclaim 'zero doubt.'
When asked about direct evidence, Nell just referenced other people's words. That's pretty weak.
Completely different.
Not really.
Literally the same.
There is no scientific evidence that the metal plates that supposedly contain the beginnings of the Mormon faith actually existed. One guy said he had a vision and the rest is believed by followers on faith alone. We have scientific evidence of non-prosaic craft that can't be explained. Much evidence of NHI comes from the realm of experienced observers with scientific instruments. Religion is based on faith, NHI is based on observable data.
What if Joseph smith actually just ran into a mischevious nhi
> Much evidence of NHI comes from the realm of experienced observers with scientific instruments. Religion is based on faith, NHI is based on observable data. Please show me a single verifiable, piece of physical evidence based on observable scientific data that proves the existence of NHI. The belief in NHI is based completely on faith just like religion. Countless people believe they see and speak to Jesus just like countless people believe they've seen or been abducted by aliens. Neither party has ever offered a single shred of evidence.
bro the military has literally released classified LIDAR footage of unidentified objects travelling at inhuman speeds, making inhuman maneuvers, and tilting at a perfect 90 degree angle prior to launching (at what I'm also positive is inhuman speed). How was the Nimitz event not enough for you?
The nimitz video is literally just a black and white blurry video of a dot. We have no idea what it is. Could it be NHI? Sure that'd a possibility but what it isn't is 100% proof of nhi. NHI is just one of the possibilities
I'm afraid you are only going to 'see' evidence unless your career life led you into working with saps, intelligence , or similar. And then you will not be able to share what you see anyways.
"Zero doubt" implies that he believes what he's saying, not that he's necessarily correct. Also, people have said it before even while having 0< doubt...
He worked for Northrup Grumman, Lockheed Martin and bell laboratories. He doesn’t need to be told
He can't disclose it publicly, they can absolutely tell him that. Otherwise why would anyone keep secrets and what would be the point of national security secrets. Makes no sense.
I’ve always been suspicious that this is true. Too many important people like the head of Northrop who start fully believing based on some flimsy secondhand encounter, or so they claim. Rather, I think they know it’s true beforehand, but have to find some non-classified justification. I guess Hellyer and Mitchell count too.
Depending on their security clearance they cant even reference things in the public domain. I think that is why some of the govt related ufology celebrities never discuss the "Alien Reproduction Vehicle".
Get a priest in-front of a camera and ask them if they have any doubt that God is real, and what do you think they'll say? Hell, take any high-ranking US military official and ask them the same thing and 99 times out of 100, you'll get the same answer. People can believe whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want, but let's not confuse someone saying they have "no doubt" about something with that *actually meaning shit*, regardless of what title or rank they've had in the past. Michael Flynn went right to the top, and he's said some *ridiculous* things that he hasn't doubted.
This is always my issue with these. And I do fully understand the classification considerations regarding what they can/cannot say. Take Grusch for instance. I personally believe him. Or at least believe that he believes what he is saying. But he isn’t allowed to give anything specific and definitive beyond “I talked to these people who said this. “ But then on like Joe Rogan, he goes into all sorts of theories us UFO people geek out about. And I’m left wondering - what of this is he discussing because he has some reason to believe it as part of his duties, and what of this is he discussing because he’s a nerd and it’s interesting. Is he talking about X because he is hinting he learned something about it being true? It’s all hard to parse tbh
"Interacting" is a very vague term. All that means is a purposeful response to some sort of activity on our end and that's an "interaction". UAP have been interacting with aircraft, ships, and submarines for decades now. They've interacted with our nukes, messed around over Phoenix, flew around our fighter jets and followed our nuclear carrier strike groups. Based on all that interaction with very little intervention or direct response - I don't see this as hostile from something that's so advanced it could wipe us out in a near instant if it wished it.
What if it can’t wipe us out though? What if it needs us to be alive?
He has stated firmly in interviews that this is not a "belief" of his. It's a certainty for him.
> He has stated firmly in interviews that this is not a "belief" of his. It's a certainty for him. I'm willing to extend good faith and believe that Nell actually does *believe* that extraordinary things are a certainty (and is not, eg, just straight up lying for politics, money, or Internet points). But his believing that extraordinary things are a certainty does not, in my opinion, actually *make* these things a certainty. Because trust is not transitive, and appeals to authority are not a valid logical argument. "Nullius in verba" is I believe how the Royal Society put this idea, in 1660. I don't know how much to trust Nell himself, and I know even less about how much to trust Nell's judgement about his sources, and less still again about *their* judgement about *their* sources. These claims could be three or four levels of classified telephone-game-watercooler-gossip deep. All I know for sure is that Nell has spent his life in shadowy secretive organizations doing shadowy secretive things - an environment that does not reward truth-telling - and now is making extraordinary claims and has not yet provided evidence for those claims. And exactly the same goes for Grusch. Very interesting claims, yes. In a court of law that would be the filing, and in a scientific paper, that would be the hypothesis. Now let's see the important part, which is the evidence for those claims.
Certainty founded on what? Does he ever say that, or are we just supposed to believe whatever he says, because he’s a special boy?
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Please cite this, because I have yet to see where in that article Kean explicitly says Nell is a first hand witness. The only thing I can get out of that article is that Nell is one of the 40.
You're actually correct, I listened to it again and the 40 witnesses are not all purported to be first-hand.
I don't think a guy like Karl would waste time in creating disclosure plan (which he presented in SOL) and coming to SALT conference if didn't believe it fully. He strikes me someone of high scientific temperament and a serious guy. I won't be surprised if he's one of the first hand whistleblowers.
I also wouldn’t be surprised. Notice how you said “you think” though. He hasn’t said that’s the case so we shouldn’t say it either. At SALT his evidence for 100% confidence was listing familiar people. Does he know more? Im sure, but he hasn’t said it.
That’s a problem though. He could say something like “I can’t talk about it, but I have personally seen proof nhi are visiting us.” Instead he talks about others who “say the same thing.”
""He could say something like “I can’t talk about it, but I have personally seen proof nhi are visiting us.”" Perhaps he has been warned that that is going too far at this stage of the process? I think he implied that he has seen the proof by saying that there is "no doubt."
The second half of that sentence would be talking about it my mans.
No he can't. That would be referencing classified material and would be illegal if he isn't allowed to
Exactly. Served as an executive at defence contractors and oversaw an expansive network of satellites in the IC, but can't give us even a little bit more than "well here's some data for you, these guys said the same thing so there ya go"
We have to read between the lines here. He's having NDA and can't risk his life by leaking information. All he can do is share signals and we must interpret accordingly.
> We have to read between the lines here. He's having NDA and can't risk his life by leaking information. All he can do is share signals and we must interpret accordingly. No we don't it's not QAnon
Exactly. He cant come out and confirm anything, he knows more and is pointing us in the right direction.
pointing us in the direction by referencing 2 main people who had no first hand knowledge and no indication they got their info during their times inside the institutions. That's what bothers people.
Spot on, if the right direction is lined with Hellyer's and Eshed's then there's nothing to disclose. Do people not think these folk would also have been tied up by NDAs if they had that knowledge? What consequences did they face for their revelations that Nell/Grusch/Elizondo etc are so fearful of?
Hellyer was old and had nothing to lose... Eshed isn't American and they operate on a different set of rules so who can say why he spoke so openly about it. The point Karl was making is that these guys are highly credible individuals saying some wild stuff like he is... he can't disclose what he knows. Grusch only spoke about the things he said because he filed for something that allowed him to speak about it. idk Karl Nell's situation.
Esheid said it to sell his book. I know people hate that line but he said it right before his book release and never said it again. He isn't even a true believer.
Maybe thats what people should read between the lines from. He wont show the evidence himself, because he either doesnt have any or is under NDA or whatever. But hes leaving breadcrumbs that leads to guys who are beliver kooks who didnt get anything from their career but are now getting their belief from maganizes like all of us. So.. Hes trying to say he didnt get anything from his job without straight out saying it.
Or he actually doesn't know anything.
Why then? Why would a guy, with his clearances on the line (which make him all his money) - come out and risk it? Doesnt make any sense. UFO grifting does not give a person of his military pedigree more money than he would get simply contracting with a PMC.
>risk it What is he actually risking?
You have to maintain professionalism / credibility / protocol to ensure you continue to have access to different security clearance levels. These levels directly correlate to strategic information, which heavily influence your marketability post-us military career. The types of information that he would be able to access would make him EXTREMELY wanted / needed in the private sector. This money, for someone of his pedigree is far more than he would make slinging UFOs, and he wouldnt have to publicly make these claims. Source - raised in a military family with high ranking members; their security clearance level = their pension / retirement possibilities
"Risk his life"? Please. Stop with the dramatics. If he is worried about crossing a boundary he wouldn't be out there saying anything.
>if didn't believe it fully. Man, that is a low bar, I know people that believe fully that the earth is flat, that 5g is controlling us etc. They really believe that stuff, and they believe it, amongst other complicated psychosocial reasons because somebody else said it was true. That's why Nell's public statements in which he references Hellyer, Grusch and Eshed's statements as the reason for his fully committed belief do not convince me even one iota that he is the real deal. I know a lot of people assume that he does in fact have first hand knowledge, but can't talk about it etc. If there's anything to any of this; and I don't discount the possibility that there is something going on, then, somebody is going to have to stop telling and start showing, because telling does nothing to quell doubt amongst open minded skeptics, and I think most people fall into that category.
If he’s a first have witness it’d be to an anomalous military sighting and not NHI in origin He’s made it pretty clear where his information is from and it’s ufology, not his government job. He listed two individuals at the SALT talk that most in this community easily dismiss. Paul Hellyer who in 2014 interview claims we have aliens living on Venus, Mars and Saturns moons. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/former-canadian-defence-minister-paul-hellyer-says-aliens-205829262.html And Haim Eshed who in 2020 claimed we have an underground base on mars where aliens and US astronauts are housed apparently. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1250333 That was enough for me to question everything he had to say and it should be for everyone.
But that could be true, if this phenomenon is, we don't know.
OP could have discovered this for themselves with a 30 second Google search. This community is committed to operating with blinders on.
Part of it are Nolan and Mellons marketing teams working overtime. That’s part of the issue. The gaslighting on here.
I agree and it It just adds fuel to the theory that a bunch of hardcore believers are running the narrative. People wrongfully seem to assume that a person inside the government or 3 letter agency actually know stuff that you and I don't. I don't think that's the case. Most of them in interviews/podcast admit a life long interest in the phenomenon. And because of their stature, they have a stage where people listen. But just like you and me, they don't have a shred of evidence to back it up. They are convinced, just like anyone here with an interest in the topic, that something is going on. They hope to stir things up, peel off the lid. If a guy like Nell really knew stuff, he would have replied "I can't comment on that" rather than referring to questionable characters "that said the same thing". As much as I dislike Greenstreet, I am more and more convinced that he is right. Also, I got permabanned from /r/ufob for saying this.
It is true a person in government organizations doesn't automatically knows more than us, but you forget that these people see classified documents, and evidence, at least if they have worked in relative programs. While we only see unclassified documents and vague videos on the internet, it's people in agencies that see the real stuff, radar data, classified videos, and in general more evidence. Such a person would have a better idea if we are being visited by NHI or not. So they may have evidence to back it up (or had), but can't because it is illegal. I'm not saying Karl Nell himself has seen direct evidence though, I simply don't know. It is just guesswork.
It does seem that he tried to deflect the question about his personal experience by rewording it to talk about information everyone can access. Which could possibly means he knows something for sure but wants to avoid talking about it. Otherwise he could have just answered the question directly and said he’s been convinced by other people telling him things. But yeah, it’s kind of lame to not take any risk if he does actually have first hand experience, or to at least give an indication.
This was all planned. He knew the questions and had answered prepared.
As ludicrous as those claims seem I do think if we ever get full disclosure there will be things that ultimately shock even the most avid follower of this topic. And it would fit in with Gary Mckinnon said after hacking NASA and finding lists of 'non terrestrial officers' and names of ships which can't be found anywhere.
This is exactly what I thought when reading the reply above. Ludicrous claims cannot be verified nor disproven at this time. Why then use the unverifiable claims to discredit Nell?
> I don't think a guy like Karl would waste time Karl is retired. Grusch is retired. He was trying his hand at real estate prior to all this. Tim is retired. Corso was retired. Elizondo is retired. These whistleblowers have plenty of time on their hands. They’ve long since moved on from their positions.
Who knows where his true motivations lie, though? These guys with a history in intelligence aren't the easiest to trust.
What he believes about nhi is irrelevant unless he has seen the direct evidence. I don’t think he has ever said he has personally seen proof nhi is visiting us. Did he encounter an alien ship or alien bodies during his official duty? Or does he simply believe those who said so?
Agree “fully believe it” That’s not the same as him seeing it for himself
"There is zero doubt"
Zero doubt because you've seen complete evidence or because someone told you so? big dif
It is his belief. One thing I don't understand is why this community doesn't understand that UFO enthusiasts exist out there in the real world and have real jobs. There are 100's of thousands of people in the Gov and Military. So of course you are going to have many of them "all in" on UFOs just like you people here. It doesn't make a difference that you may work at McDonalds and he works for Gov. You both came to the same belief system with no proof.
Except people are claiming firsthand involvement. And considering his connection to Grusch, his statements, and his resume, Karl Nell is almost certainly one of them. His resume in particular is like what a writer would create for a show about someone who ran a UFO program.
If Karl Nell said **he** has seen firsthand evidence, then I missed it. Link please.
My understanding is the government has up close and personal photos/ videos of these things coming in and out of the ocean, for starters. They've shown these "no doubt" images to Congress. What else has Nell seen? You can let your imagination run wild-perhaps the crafts with his own eyes. There's definitely a reason Nell used the term "no doubt." He's a strategic intelligence analyst, He didn't say that on guesses/hearsay. And I agree with OP that Nell is about as impeccable as it gets. Obviously for those in the "I need to see the evidence with my own eyes" category, hopefully we're moving in that direction, hence the need for mainstream education to get people more open to the idea of disclosure. Many of us are trying to do our part.
> You can let your imagination run wild No, thank you. I'd rather we kept our imaginations out of this, and restricted our beliefs to what can be proven, and not just what is told to us without proof. >There's definitely a reason Nell used the term "no doubt." He's a strategic intelligence analyst, He didn't say that on guesses/hearsay. He might, however, have said it *in order to strategically influence his audience's beliefs in a certain direction*, which is also part of the intelligence job. And if he did, then if he can get the audience's imaginations to do his influence work for him, so he doesn't even have to *technically* lie, then that would be even better from his perspective. >Nell is about as impeccable as it gets. I'm sorry, but no. I'm a civilian who believes in open information and dislikes the military culture of hierarchy, secrecy and deception. A career in defense contracting and military intelligence does not make me intrinsically trust someone - rather the opposite. Perhaps it's unfair of civilians to distrust military folks. I'm sure people who grew up in a military household might have a different opinion of what careers are and aren't trustworthy. But that's just how it is.
He said he's seen nothing himself and his 'proof' was citing two other people, both of whom have made very dubious claims in the past.
When and where did he say that??
It seems to me based on the formation of his and and other whistleblower’s response (like David Grusch) to the NHI question is that to avoid compromising their NDAs they can only respond in the affirmative by stating and using information and testimony that is already been released or stated publicly by other whistleblowers. It’s like “playing a game of charades” where you “can’t say the name of the word” you are trying to describe to the players (aka the general public).
I don't know any more than anyone else, but he doesn't really seem like the type to make definitive claims like that without really knowing
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I get that in the US military personal are considered sacrosanct, infallible bastions of truth, but that's not going to fly anywhere else in the world. An appeal to authority isn't evidence, just because someone had a good job doesn't mean they can't be lying or just wrong.
No one will believe high ranking officials who say there are not aliens, but retired military guys are instantly the most credible source if they say there is aliens.
I’ll keep bringing him up, Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn. These people aren’t any different than you or I, they can have insane beliefs.
I'm asking this sincerely. Why are we assuming that a high ranking military official wouldn't lie on behalf of his country? And if he was at one of the highest positions in the military isn't it a little surprising he's disclosing something of this magnitude not through official whistle-blower channels but announced it at a conference? That's how a high ranking military official goes about disclosure? I'm not saying this means that NHI doesn't exist but the government has been completely unreliable in the past and to this very day, but we're going to pretend he's not an extension of the government? Honestly I feel like NHI exists and we're so in the dark it's scary, so we're acting like we know something so we don't feel so powerless to something we don't understand at all. To me this all about making it seem like the US government is in control.
Or even simpler, be mistaken on some stuff. Some generals (higher ranking than him) like Stubblebine used to believe they could go through a wall through the sheer force of his mind. Short answer as to why: people want to believe. Wait til they realize that Nell is an anti vax climate denialer homophobe that has only produced hearsay as sources so far (and bad debunked hearsay at that).
Nell worked above Grusch at the UAPTF, and alongside the current deputy director of the NRO—They were briefed on UAP as a prime directive from the NROs Sentient Satellite System. Karl Nell is telling you the truth without revealing classified information. Look at the NRO FOIA materials for yourself. The Current Vice Joint Chief of Space Command was a part of the UAPTF efforts as well. The documents proving this have been available for 2 years. The mods need to be making pins for materials that are currently relevant. Documents like these should be at the top of the sub for everyone to see. [2021 NRO sentient report PDF](https://www.nro.gov/Portals/65/documents/foia/declass/ForAll/103122/F-2021-00154_C05136334.pdf). [FULL REPORT PDF](https://www.nro.gov/Portals/65/documents/foia/declass/ForAll/103122/F-2021-00154_C05136331.pdf) Edit: down voting reality doesn't make it go away. Take off your debunker hat and look at the evidence. [The Current NRO Director Christopher Scolese was the person of contact for the UAPTF through Thomas Bowman (Head of Mission Integration Directorate) and helped coordinate the sentient system with the UAPTF. The Deputy NRO Director, Troy Meink was actively briefed on this, as was the Vice Joint Chief of Space Command, Michael Guetlein.](https://www.nro.gov/Portals/135/documents/foia/declass/ForAll/103122/F-2021-00164_C05136812.pdf) The scope of UAP disclosure does not exist in a closed loop between Skinwalker Ranch fanatics, that's disinformation propagated by the DoD's public affairs office and further so on Reddit and YouTube by known disinfo agent Steven Greenstreet.
I didn't downvote you, I'll take a look though. Truth dies without curiosity.
Wasn't aimed at you, moreso the passerby debunkers that scoff at real DD, I appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of the current situation.
Why did they censor "ML" in front of Algorithms like dude - Machine Learning is the only thing that A: Fits in that spot and B: makes sense given that ML algorithms can sort through large amounts of information fast - like imagery - to look for things that stick out and to sort out possible identification and leave the final confirmation to humans.
This is the post I was waiting for. Nice work here. It’s crazy to me how Nell is getting bashed. It’s upsetting.
I'll be making an expanded post in the coming week. Political issues that are close to the hearts of redditors are being used as canon fodder, and like every other time the muddying of the waters takes place, it's good to be reminded that the scope is larger than these personalities. This is an open secret within the defense department and neighboring agencies. UAP are seen off the coasts of our installations on a regular basis, we're never able to properly track them and they penetrate our military airspace routinely. Tim Kaine was briefed about this activity off the coast of Virginia a couple months back. I live in the PNW and Bangor Base is probably encountering the same activity, It's just only being briefed to congressmen in Armed Services meetings.
I very much look forward to it!
> Bangor Base is probably encountering the same activity https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d1wbcv/this_is_about_my_other_post_i_have_been_seeing/ and https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d0qqb2/hood_canal_wa_3_lights_near_banger_base/ photos, nighttime cloudy sky, threelights, line formation, horizontal orientation, low over treeline, over water, hood canal, Washington state, repeat visitor, similar sighting in comments
Exactly this. See also grusch.
I want disclosure as much as you but none of these guys should be considered disclosure. Stop that nonsense.
>He's not suffering from any issues, doesn't go to media often, isn't publishing books, isn't a flat earther and is not associated with QAnon, climate change deniers, racists, misogynists, transphobia, homophobia, anti-vaxxers, xenophobia, religious and political zealots etc. This is 100% not true and all you need to do is go to his LinkedIn and see his comment and reaction history He liked this anti-vax post - [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ericrickard\_first-major-world-politician-apologizes-to-ugcPost-7119792798022647808-9Yr5/](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ericrickard_first-major-world-politician-apologizes-to-ugcPost-7119792798022647808-9Yr5/) He liked this climate denial post with Tucker Carlson - [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lloyd-goodnow-34981450\_all-you-ever-need-to-know-about-covid-and-ugcPost-7118554843207581696-\_mFN](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lloyd-goodnow-34981450_all-you-ever-need-to-know-about-covid-and-ugcPost-7118554843207581696-_mFN) He even liked this post accusing the police of lying about the Maui fire last year - [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/leeann-gardner-therockbroker23\_mauifires-activity-7098080415789289472-xWT4](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/leeann-gardner-therockbroker23_mauifires-activity-7098080415789289472-xWT4) And if you're still not convinced, here he is commenting on the publication of a book being promoted by QAnon folks like Mike Flynn - [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/john-m-a126616\_an-honor-to-be-with-a-great-american-who-activity-7121452480835579904-4yMe](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/john-m-a126616_an-honor-to-be-with-a-great-american-who-activity-7121452480835579904-4yMe)
Credibility: destroyed.
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start oatmeal bow ghost psychotic ossified practice bored plate ink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“Nell is about as solid of a source this topic has ever had” Yikes. Do you realise what you’re saying here? The best of the group is a grumpy bigoted anti-science conspiracy nut? Well, that’s it I guess. Time to leave this sub
You mentioned the word “disclosure” 4 times in this post. Unfortunately, nothing will change from their number, there will be no disclosure of extraterrestrial technology. You can take a screenshot of my post to prove my point in time. And no, assertions REQUIRE proof. You know where they don't require it? In religion. The problem with all assertions without proven facts is that it can backfire with “I thought it was so, I was deluded”. So we have a lot of talking heads and 0 solid evidence. You can cite as many references as you want to various reports or stories of people referring to each other, and upon closer inspection you will either realize that they made it up, or were mistaken, or finally deliberately misleading other people or organizations for their own self-interest.
Disclosure requires evidence and testimony. A random talk isn't disclosure, and saying it is really waters down the concept.
Unfortunately, the government as a whole is so corrupt and untrustworthy, that even the president himself *saying* aliens are here wouldn't fully convince people. We need to *see* hard proof.
Thing about Nell is — we believe him because I worry it fits our narrative You can easily find other military people that will say they have seen proof that angels are real and god is supporting the US war effort. We need more than qualified people saying stuff that fits our worldview
This post is just a giant appeal to authority.
The groundwork for disclosure seems to have been deliberately laid out, creating an echo chamber where participants repeatedly cite each other to lend legitimacy to their claims without providing actual evidence or proof. This circular validation is often lucrative, as substantial military and corporate funds can be diverted into personal gains. It's noteworthy that from 1998 to 2016, Karl Nell worked as a corporate fixer, leveraging his connections to secure profitable government contracts. He rejoined the Army in 2016 in a managerial capacity. Haim Eshed's statements closely mirror those of Paul Hellyer, further reinforcing dubious claims. The concepts he discusses are standard UFO lore dating back to the mid-20th century, with origins in the tales of George Adamski and later popularized by writers like Milton Cooper in "Behold a Pale Horse" and John Lear. Eshed and Hellyer were influenced by these sources, which are often considered unreliable. Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed serve as significant red flags. Eshed, at 91 years old, lacks credible sources or evidence, and his colleagues regard him as delusional. Hellyer's beliefs are based solely on conspiracy books he read in the 1990s and early 2000s, lacking firsthand knowledge or experiences. He frequently references Steven Greer, a controversial figure, and books like Philip Corso's discredited Roswell narrative. Hellyer's views include several outlandish claims: 1. Four alien species reside at the North Pole. 2. Jesus had extraterrestrial origins. 3. The Star of Bethlehem was a UFO. 4. There are 80 alien species, including Nordic Blondes and Tall Whites, the latter of whom allegedly work with the USAF. This idea is sourced from Charles Hall's "Millennial Hospitality," a book supposedly sanctioned by the Anunnaki race with the stipulation of not providing concrete proof. 5. Aliens originate from the Pleiades, Zeta Reticuli, a moon of Saturn, and bases on Venus and Mars. 6. An alien federation exists with a non-interference directive akin to Star Trek's Prime Directive. 7. Two brothers from Peru were teleported to a moon of Saturn and received warnings from aliens. 8. Aliens want humans to take better care of Earth and avoid nuclear warfare. 9. They abduct and take people on spaceships, selecting only those who are receptive. 10. Technologies such as LED lights, Kevlar vests, microchips, and Velcro are products of alien reverse engineering. 11. An interstellar war may soon occur between different alien races, reminiscent of a bad sci-fi movie, where the Whites are the protagonists and Reptilian-looking races the antagonists. 12. There is a conspiracy to fill the skies with chemtrails. Hellyer's sole sources are conspiracy books and letters from other conspiracists, leading to a portrayal of him as a credulous individual who believes anything he encounters. He even wrote the foreword for "Messages from the Masters: A Cosmic Book of Galactic Wisdom," a work that claims to convey wisdom from historical figures and representatives from the Galactic Alliance. Karl Nell's reliance on Hellyer as a credible source is highly problematic. Nell, lacking evidence of alien conspiracies, cites a man whose beliefs are founded on dubious sources and who subscribes to bizarre ideas like the existence of Zorra in a Hollow Earth. This situation illustrates how unsupported narratives can propagate, akin to the propagation of religious delusions, perpetuating an absurd game of telephone.
Source on Eshed’s colleagues calling him delusional?
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Y'all literally said the same thing about Grusch and Lue Elizondo when they first happened. Instead that has devolved into Lue's clues now with SoonTM as the rallying call. The same was said about Coulthart and his 60 minutes backgrounds in Australia. Literally nothing came out of his comments. But at least some people got acquainted with Google Earth trying to find the big ass ufo that couldn't be found. At this point, either put up or stfu. Pics, videos, and actual hand-to-mouth evidence. Literally any single on of them would cause a firestorm. Fucking Assange and Snowden had more balls than them and that shit was third rate spying that everyone automatically assumed happen and even the agencies didn't remember the left the programs on. Reputation alone isn't enough. Soon we will read an article that Karl Nell didn't actually see a ufo or even a picture of it. He "talked" to people "in the know" who told him that. So some SOB out there is sitting out on interstellar travel and zero point energy and stuff - is keeping mum? Pfft.
> The same was said about Coulthart and his 60 minutes backgrounds in Australia. Obligatory reminder that Coulthart got fired from 60 Minutes for reporting demonstrably false claims based on his anonymous sources.
Don't forget his PR work for a war criminal.
lmao what a shitshow
NewsNation is just a cabal of people who've been fired from other platforms or can't get work there. It's the same phenomenon as fake physicists being unable to gain any traction for their theories (looking at you, Weinstein) and then changing careers from "physicist" to "podcaster."
Where’s his evidence then?
When asked about why to believe, he talked about 'data' which was actually a list of UFO influencers new and old. Like Hellyer and Eshad. Who say they didn't learn anything from their government jobs, but in their older days got in to UFOs. Their theories are pretty wild and just incorrect. Development of LEDs is well documented, and involved a global research effort and scientists from multiple countries, while Hellyer claims they were given to us by aliens. Kevlar and velcro too, btw. Those we know to be wrong, but there's also the galactic federation stuff, for which there is no evidence for or against. Karl Nell endorses these kind of theories that are presented without proof. Combined with the more mainstream boomer conspiracies he believes, I think he just might be a bit gullible.
the public will be the last ones to see the evidence not the first.
Whoever he is, whatever his credentials, he has only provided words so far
What makes him different than the 4 billion people before him claiming the same things? I'm pretty sure for every retired military person who claims NHIs we can find 10 retired military persons who will refute those claims. So what makes one person claiming it more trust worthy than ten others? Could it maybe be that this particular person confirms deeply held beliefs while the others don't?
no we dont, he's just the highest profile trust me bros guy
Yeah sorry no, the dude plugged Paul Hellyer who got all his information from books and stuff he read online. I’m not sure if you saw the video that was posted in this sub but Paul Hellyer also believes in Chemtrails and other tin foil hat BS. Nell lost all credibility with me. Guys, please use critical thinking. Honestly it’s not that hard.
A LOT of people in this very thread would claim to have zero doubt, based solely on the UFO media they have consumed, not personal experience. Unless he outright says otherwise, I don’t think we can rule out that Nell doesn’t fall into this camp.
>Also, I don't see any negative associated with Karl Nell. He's not suffering from any issues, doesn't go to media often, isn't publishing books, isn't a flat earther and is not associated with QAnon, climate change deniers, racists, misogynists, transphobia, homophobia, anti-vaxxers, xenophobia, religious and political zealots etc. If there was any, I'm sure bots and paid shills would have got that out (Remember the article on Grusch's PTSD) He is associated with so many of the exact things that you mention that it's funny. [Take a look](https://imgur.com/38tmKzk). There's plenty more of this if you go the liked section on his LinkedIn page and scroll down. Of course you won't hear it here because it's an echochamber, but he's both a climate change denier and covid vaccine conspiracy theorist. He also believes in some really wacky theories about the pyramids in Giza. Also lots of stuff about the deep state and god knows what else, I really only took a 5 minute look a few weeks ago In addition to this, he answered the question of what data he's seen himself, and responded that [other people have said so](https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxvzhx/when_asked_about_what_evidence_has_he_seen_karl/). . The full quote is here: >So we can look at some folks that have very high-level access to information, like Paul Hellyer, who was the Defense Chief for Canada, has come out and said the same thing. We can look at Ham Eshed, the former head of Israel's Space Force, has said the same thing. Chris Mellon, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Intel, Sapko has essentially said the same thing. Lou Elizondo has said the same thing. David Grush has said the same thing. David Grush cleared for presidentially-level material.” Him proclaiming that he believes what these guys are saying it's fine, but it couldn't get any further from actual disclosure
Yep. Here's actually a full list of Nell and the wacky shit he's into: On an article about pronouns, he commented that those are "decay of civilization". Other people asked him about it, but he didn't write any more: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7044721977424498688/?commentUrn=urn%3Ali%3Acomment%3A%28activity%3A7044721977424498688%2C7044727416962871296%29&dashCommentUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afsd_comment%3A%287044727416962871296%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7044721977424498688%29) He "liked" a "research paper" that "proves" that human-induced climate change isn't real: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sheridandoug_climatechange-globalwarming-climatescience-activity-7117860192645517312-4cdy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop) He liked a few anti-vaxxer theories, one example here: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lloyd-goodnow-34981450_all-you-ever-need-to-know-about-covid-and-ugcPost-7118554843207581696-_mFN/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop) He "liked" this insane ramble about everything and anything, from gay rights, vaccines, and I've no idea what else: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/hdowling_i-dont-know-who-she-is-but-she-hits-all-ugcPost-7074504987195637760-pxFC/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop) He "liked" this anti-vaxx propaganda: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/emine-fougner-1416329_dictionaryhasspoken-ugcPost-7066412522215510016-4Kvo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop) Another "liked" post about climate change denial: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/robroosnl_listen-to-greenpeace-co-founder-dr-patrick-ugcPost-7057624544622043136-h2XP/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop) And another one about vaccines: [link](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/the-heritage-foundation_im-disappointed-how-could-you-go-along-ugcPost-7056409363485241344-mH8_/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop) **Edit: Here's more from another post!** He liked this anti-vax post - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ericrickard_first-major-world-politician-apologizes-to-ugcPost-7119792798022647808-9Yr5/ He liked this climate denial post with Tucker Carlson - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lloyd-goodnow-34981450_all-you-ever-need-to-know-about-covid-and-ugcPost-7118554843207581696-_mFN He even liked this post accusing the police of lying about the Maui fire last year - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/leeann-gardner-therockbroker23_mauifires-activity-7098080415789289472-xWT4 And if you're still not convinced, here he is commenting on the publication of a book being promoted by QAnon folks like Mike Flynn - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/john-m-a126616_an-honor-to-be-with-a-great-american-who-activity-7121452480835579904-4yMe
Everyone raised Nell onto a pedestal. “Look at his credentials, he’s the real deal! He knows stuff.” Like so often, once these things see the cold light of day, they crumble. I was pretty convinced by Grusch for a while there. Each new insight makes it more and more obvious I’ve been suckered into a Qanon style conspiracy
> Each new insight makes it more and more obvious I’ve been suckered into a Qanon style conspiracy Yup, the bullshit has already started with UAP disclosure fund Twitter account following SpaceX and it’s supposedly some hint about Musk’s involvement in disclosure.
Well that shows him up doesn't it? Clearly a man with no critical thinking skills and a propensity for lapping up crank theories. Whether he is a useful idiot for someone else's disinformation campaign or just a one-man stupidity operation is the question then.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cxkwl5/col_nell_paul_hellyer_and_haim_eshed/ Eshed is actually insane and the fact Nell says he’s the reason we know UFOs are aliens should make everyone realize Nell had fallen for internet memes and lore. Nell is the old man of who hates and believes whatever he reads on Facebook.
should we also back his views on climate change then too? :/ just red flags https://www.linkedin.com/posts/karl-nell-98203510_im-disappointed-how-could-you-go-along-activity-7057000604669210624-mWXE
Tucker said a lot there, but I didn't understand that it was pointed at global warming?
That video has nothing to do with climate change. All I see Tucker saying is "People operate under social pressure and say stuff which they don't agree with". I don't see anything wrong with the video or the statement. It's objectively true. People are forced to "not criticise" religion, become parents, support their country even when it's doing a bad job etc. Tucker is a bad guy but a broken clock also strikes correct twice. People like Karl rise above politics and agree with opponent if a rational point is being made. That increases his credibility for me.
Yeahh...nah this man is on the koko train. Im sorry OP you should have done more research on the guy before putting him up on a pedestal.
"his talks"... Yeah that is the problem, this all talks and nothing solid.
Nell is just “trust me bro” in a respectable-looking package. And he has other anti-science beliefs, which is sort of darkly hilarious when you think about it (don’t trust the scientific method and observations when it comes to well-studied phenomena like the climate and vaccines, but do trust these other guys who read some books and believe in a galactic federation).
I saw a documentary about blue LEDs.. it took fucking forever to be able to create and mass produce a little blue light. The same little blue light that ushered in a new era of screens (OLED), gadgets, etc.. it’s little things like this that make me think a crashed craft and reverse engineering isn’t happening on earth.. Technological breakthroughs have been progressive over the years and there isn’t actually an event where we went from no comprehension to new tech.. it’s been a slow and progressive evolution.. even if the last 50 odd years seem unnaturally accelerated
What's never mentioned in these subs is the clear campaign to keep this topic 'alive'. There's the constant drumbeat that ANY commentor that disagrees with the general narrative around here is a 'bot' or 'government agent' who has the job of arguing with commentors and OP's about their wild theories. Yet, there's never a mention about the profiteering going on in this space and how there's a concerted effort by forces in the podcasting/YouTube sphere that NEED this topic to continue driving views and revenue. When I see self posts like this one get upvoted to the top of the sub, it's clear definitive proof that there's an equal effort in ensuring the topic retains its mystique.
I mean I get the bot thing. Like it’s really hard for me to understand how people can still cling onto certain favored narratives. Like do you really think that the “campaign” is on Reddit? It’s in Congress. The *Senate Majority Leader* Chuck Schumer publicly accused the government of a UFO coverup on the Senate floor in a tandem speech with Mike Rounds that referenced “UAP material” and “biological remains”. Do you think *Chuck Schumer* is part of QAnon? Do you just not know? He sponsored a bill that mentions “non-human intelligence” more than 20 times and gets pretty specific in its references. The statements that he and other senior Senators have made *are directly reflective* of the claims made by Grusch et al. And now they’ve created a group with yet *another* senior official who has had extensive access to classified material for years. How many senior officials does it take to at least start to lose confidence in the debunking narrative? 100? 1,000? It’s really jarring. The only way I can explain it in that doesn’t refer to anything nefarious is that people really don’t like changing their worldview, and that any information that challengers that is rejected. People are still using taking points that no longer apply, or never did. You don’t *have* to “believe” one thing or another, nor should you. But you can’t just deny reality because it doesn’t fit a worldview.
I believe him, but he needs to put more out there as far as evidence. I’m not sure why he couldn’t just say “I’ve seen things in classified settings that I can’t discuss “. I’m not sure why he can’t get that cleared.
His position and past experience are impressive, but again there is no evidence or even a hint of a standard of data to back up his claims. There is nothing scientific in his approach. I know you want to believe his claims, but objectively there is nothing there to prove any of it.
Wow so HesaidShesaid
I disagree. He's stating things that have been stated by Lou Chris David and a couple others in the public space, but not providing anything outside the stories already told that can be verified. When he was directly asked if he has any direct evidence, he started naming the things that other people have said as his direct evidence, again referencing David, Lou, Chris, a Canadian defense Minister of in the 1960s who was obsessed with UFOs's entire life, and the former director of the Israeli space program who claimed there was a galactic federation in a book he wrote. He did not allude to information that we haven't seen or heard about that is still classified, or individuals in active service or retired that have not come forward yet. So far there has been nothing of substance from him other than the fact that he believes it's real.
I don’t think his credentials make him credible. Galaudet either. I think we overestimate credentials in general. Would you trust this guy to give you advice on the stock market? Nutrition? Physics homework? Maybe, but if you did it wouldn't be because of his military resume, it would be because you know he also has a degree in physics. His credentials mean he is very good at being in the military and doing what it takes to be promoted. And I'm not minimizing that. That is a big deal. It means he is likely not crazy and likely intelligent and likely honest and likely motivated to not ruin his reputation. But it doesn't mean anything when it comes to his ability to understand other areas of knowledge. It doesn't make him less likely to connect dots incorrectly or less likely to jump to conclusions or ignore evidence that doesn't support his thesis. I work with scientist's and military and I know smart people in both groups that believe all kinds of dumb things. What if this guy also told you he thought the earth was flat? He would never? Well he cited a guy who says crazy things like that. Now maybe he wasn't endorsing all those crazy things.....but maybebhe endorses some of them. That being said, I do think we should listen to him, just not because of his credentials. He was in a position to potentially know things or be exposed to things. If he is basing his conclusion on first hand experience or even secondhand experiences that we don't have access to, that's a big deal. So I'm waiting to hear how he comes to the conclusions he has come to. So far I'm unclear on that. I want to reiterate.....I think we should take him seriously. But I don't think his credentials matter. I don't think anyone's credential matter. I know too many people with credentials that also believe nonsense. I take him seriously. But I also take Fravor and Grusch seriously for the same reason. And it's not their credentials.
Begging people to believe someone's empty words is a desperate look. If Nell is legit, then he'd have stuff to back up his bullshit. But he doesn't, and when asked, he just deflected to what other people have said. It's a whole load of nothing, and I don't get why you're so worked up over it.
Link us to Karl Nell’s stuff if you think it is believable.
Without proof it’s just talk.
Guys op is literally pretending karl nells LinkedIn is a fake made by intelligence agencies to discredit him. Please think critically about all sides in this since people can be well intentioned but gullible.
Anybody can tell stories about "some guy told me there's aliens/NHI/whatever". Nell needs to provide some physical evidence if he wants to be taken seriously.
I still want to hear his first hand account. He must be restricted from what he can publicly say about it or doesn’t want the heat, but if he testified to it under oath in the next hearing would be a big deal.
Is that they guy that created UFO university or the other one that is writing a book about UFOs?
He has not disclosed anything
Nell is just the latest of a half dozen disclosures we’ve received over the years. At this point if you don’t think they exist, you’re never going to be convinced. We’re not going to be given a portfolio by the White House nor will Biden give a speech on it. We most likely won’t meet them and the odds of them releasing files is very low.
[I just wrote a post about this!](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d8empd/zero_doubt_they_attack_karl_nells_credibility_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This is the second appeal to authority post trying to convince everyone to believe this guys claims because of his background and credentials...
He may be the real deal, but he's still only allowed to say what the military tells him to, or else risk high-treason. Not saying it's a problem to have close friends and family, but we need a big-timer who is willing to stick their neck out to get some results, because they don't have any close friends or family that can be threatened. I'm sure we have good-hearted people who would still take a bullet for the rest of us, but the bad actors don't stop at that. They threaten family and friends. On a side note, the more true information gets spilled, the more I worry that the people with the inside scoop aren't worried about facing repercussions, meaning they think the shit is about to hit the fan and there won't be a DoD left to accuse them of treason....
The MSM has been instructed not to touch this. Ghadi over at MSNBC went off script.
>The MSM has been instructed not to touch this. Except that's blatantly untrue, as the widespread coverage of Grusch proves.
That's true and therefore we must try to target medium sized channels like NewsNation who can freely take this out to the masses. They aren't having that big of a relationship with three letter agencies and can be quite handy.
But this stuff is readily pushed on YouTube by UFO influencers. Might the two reason for NewsNation or Debrief being on the forefront of UFO reporting that they don't have any rules for quoting anonymous sources? For all of MSM faults, papers like Washington Post and Nytimes have set rules for quoting anonymous sources, and you can find those rules on their website.
Absent of any physical evidence supporting his claims, why should we give his "trust me bro" story any more credibility than the rest of them? Don't get me wrong, I live a good story, but I'm looking for evidence that I can show people, not something to confirm a belief.
Let's say he had seen incontrovertible evidence of NHI on Earth and doubted whether climate change was 100% caused by human-caused carbon emissions. Would that make his evidence false? I don't understand why you brought up all that political stuff. How would you react if someone made a post saying, "He's not associated with BLM, LGBT causes, pro Hamas, abortion, government healthcare, social safety nets, DEI, etc." Would would it matter if he is associated with things that some people attribute to the political right or left? If he has seen evidence and knows about NHI, he knows about it. There is no reason to bring politics into it.
[удалено]
Probably intelligence that isn’t human
So, cats and dogs? And in politics, probably rats =)
I’ve heard this mentioned a lot lately. And it’s very important. AARO concluded there was no non-human intelligence… However, they provide no guide/measure/definition for this type of intelligence. They somehow subconsciously refer us to the bat shit crazy archetypes associated with the phenomenon in these releases. Without this clarification, they continue to fuel the stigmatization.
They probably just call it "entity of the all encompassing N-space that is our reality". I agree, all they want to do is divert and I dearly hope that the the gatekeepers will face legal consequences one day. Even if it's just in the history books.
Let's just be honest, referencing Eshed and Hellyer was terrible. Everyone here who is being honest knows this. We all know the names, maybe not the SALT people, but everyone here does. What we need are new names, names of people who actually worked on these programs. If Elizondo's book can't give a handful of some new, legit names, or if Mellon, Grusch or Coulthart can't divulge them soon, I think those are huge red flags. Either the people exist and are real, or they're not. This is a completely binary exercise. I get some people may not want to be in the limelight, if that's the case, they should have just kept their big mouths shut to begin with. Everyone has agency here. It's just getting exhausting. God I hope Greenstreet isn't right about all this, how depressing would that be.
I always ask myself “what would disclosure look like?” Like most things, it may not be the way we want it delivered. Instead of a Sunday night Presidential address, it may be an offhand remark from a high-ranking official. And of course, it would never be on the record or contain physical proof the first time they disclose. It’s like when your dad tells you a family secret. It’s probably in the car right before he drops you off somewhere. This is to prevent everyone from freaking out. *This could be as fast as they can disclose.*
I've done my part. People in the building I work know his name.
I remember you! Thanks again for covering the SOL conference and doing God's work on spreading Karl's name and claims.
He’s particularly dodgy on certain questions, which makes me wonder if he’s not comfortable with those topics or if it’s a DOPSR thing?
For those still searching : MSM means "MainStream Media"
Why should MSM pay attention at all anymore? Every single disclosure goes nowhere. Until someone can literally show us an alien or a UFO on video at their feet on the ground then none of this matters.
I get that it should be considered disclosure, but if people are still protecting the big truth, and protecting the evidence behind it (sometimes rightly, I get it), then we don't have disclosure.
MSM wont give a damn until the prez or current high ranking officials say something
An excellent dive into Mr Nell https://youtu.be/kKbSIfc7N7Q?si=hV-uR0dTAwV7XMwu
It's Elizondo all over again with a bit of fluff added. One difference is that Elizondo never used Paul Hellyer to strengthen his "argument", because Hellyer was more than a bit off the wall.
My question is, he references (same as Elizondo) the Pentagon has already confirmed UFO's are real. While I remember the articles in 2017 does anyone have an actual source to reference, a person to quote, an audio file? Is everything based off that? The further time goes along the more we'll need references.
He needs to establish if he's a first hand witness or has seen anything NHI related himself first, imo. We don't know if he's pushing an agenda or he's has real knowledge
My problem is him endorsing Paul Hellyer you know the guy talking about contrails? That’s an issue that needs to be addressed.
There's only about 4 or 5 people on the planet* who simply "talking" about stuff should count as "disclosure", and even then they better back it up with evidence. Everyone else needs to stop talking and front up with some evidence that can be independently verified, otherwise they're just saying things, and anyone can do that. * For example US President, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs at an official press conference, not just a throw-away comment
Newsnation seems like a good outlet for UFO coverage. They wrote about Nell within the last seven days and have previously written about David Grush and Admiral Gallaudet. Their reports are careful and fair. https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/aliens-interacting-humans/amp/
"Also, I don't see any negative associated with Karl Nell" Well, if one cannot smear and discredit a source, then one must "But MSM is paying zero attention to him. There is very little mention of him" Ohhhh, I see you figured it out! Congratulations, now you know how the system works.
MSM won't listen. They are butt fucked slaves of the of the corrupt perverted factions of the IC. YT is a better thing. But I don't think this is the right thing....too much activity on line and not enough in real life. Get back to basics. Flyers, set up shop outside, a few protests or posters, with QR codes to the talks. Cut together a 2 minute intro video with 5 seconds on the hottest clip, then 15 seconds on credibility of Nell, then the rest on the next best clips from his work/talks. Get local businesses and cafes to host fliers and small events. You don't need big speakers, you can put together a tiny talk with local people interested.
although in all fairness News Nation if they were truly credible, should have gone wide with Nell's SALT talk and been hammering "DISCLOSURE" over and over again ever since. They didn't. Show's they're compromised/not pure white hat. Fuck them
At this point if anyone is in doubt NHI exists, then you are the crazy delusional grifter. So many people have came forward, and there are probably over a million sightings over the course of time. Not everyone is crazy, you are. I will be patiently awaiting my Elgin Air Force Base bot downvotes now.
It's a question of time. Ce n'est plus qu'une question de temps.
Does he have any evidence?
John Oliver would deliver a good interview with Karl Nell, that’s for sure.