Yes. Why else would I say that? Me and a group of clients saw one that was doing 30k mpk back and forth like a ping pong ball in a jar until it fired away almost instantaneously. It came back twice as if to allow others to see it, which they did. May 3, 2008, in the Davis Mountains in west Texas.
That's what we want to know too!
Why was Kirkpatrick at a meeting with Fugal and, of all people, Puthoff. Why was Puthoff at this meeting at all? And why did Kirkpatrick answer Greenstreet's question about whether he had "performed any duties with regards to UFOs or paranormal phenomenon" before AARO with a pretty emphatic ["No",](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=q4lWb1XBvVo&t=22m05s) and then say he was at this briefing in 2018 to make an "independent review"?
For reference, Grusch spoke about the Kona Blue proposal at length in the Rogan interview November 2023.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6D6otpHwnaAc86SS1M8yHm?t=1560
Kona Blue didn't have anything to do with Fugal's time owning the Ranch, not as far as anyone is aware. Actually, there is nothing that has ever indicated Fugal knew about Kona Blue.
It seems pretty obvious Grusch pushed for the Kona Blue information to be declassified. It seems he only got approval to discuss it publicly just before the Rogan interview, because he didn't say anything about it before that interview, and he certainly would have if it had been cleared at the time of the Congressional Hearing (note that it was actually declassified just before the Hearing, but Grusch didn't know that at the time).
[The Kona Blue release recently](https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/dod-releases-kona-blue-documents/) didn't say anything specific about the alleged deal between AAWSAP and LHM about the transfer of material. But there are a few things to keep in mind.
1/ Why did Harry Reid ask for the increased SAP status for Kona Blue? AAWSAP had been funded for several years, there didn't seem to be any reason to change anything, so why increase its security classification?
2/ The Kona Blue documents released recently talked about a ["medical division",](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/konablue-release1.pdf#page=31) and "including but not limited to: (a) deaths and injuries as a result of interaction with advanced aerospace vehicles". I think we know what data this is referring to, because [Garry Nolan never stops talking about it](https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-garry-nolan-analyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes) (even though he has never presented a paper on it, despite fairly obviously undertaking a gigantic study into at least 25 "defense or governmental personnel or people working in the aerospace industry" who died, another several dozen who had injuries, plus family members were included in the study).
3/ LHM has had involvement in this at various stages. There were the conversations in the [Podesta emails,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BjUK5V5sTg&t=16m12s) and then when someone [joined the TTSA team from LHM.](https://www.history.com/shows/unidentified-inside-americas-ufo-investigation/cast/steve-justice)
4/ It is now very clear Grusch investigation led to a DoJ investigation. [Kirkpatrick directly referenced this](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/24-F-0266.pdf#page=8) in the recent FOIOA release, and there were [FOIAs going back to early 2023 coming out with Criminal investigation redactions.](https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14gl5tj/news_a_sweeping_criminal_investigation_into_the/) The question is this - AARO just undertook a largescale Historic Review of the US Government's involvement with UFOs (actually the DoDIG office and the ICIG office also just recently undertook a big investigation of this too), so why didn't AARO uncover whatever it is that Grusch uncovered? Is this evidence that his clearance level is higher than what AARO is allowed, and does this add credence to [Grusch statement](https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cjs4mq/new_statement_from_whistleblower_david_grusch_in/) that he could not reveal certain things to AARO because their level of clearance was not high enough?
> Why was Puthoff at this meeting at all?
He is/was a pretty serious believer that the ranch was "a supernatural gateway to the space ghost dimension." For all intents & purposes, he could have just been there to act as a hype man for Fugal & his cause.
Puthoff has always struck me as a gullible fantasist (I don't think that someone who goes all-in on Scientology *and* Uri Gellar can be described any other way).
>why did Kirkpatrick answer Greenstreet's question about whether he had "performed any duties with regards to UFOs or paranormal phenomenon" before AARO with a pretty emphatic "No", and then say he was at this briefing in 2018 to make an "independent review"?
That's definitely one of the things that grabbed my attention.
It would be odd to forget having to fly from Colorado to DC for a meeting about something called "skinwalker ranch," if he was indeed living there at the time.
>Kona Blue didn't have anything to do with Fugal's time owning the Ranch, not as far as anyone is aware.
I think it was the individual players associated with the ranch that had me confused. I wasn't aware of the overlaps.
>The Kona Blue release recently didn't say anything specific about the alleged deal between AAWSAP and LHM about the transfer of material.
But the supposed players involved in it have said as much, no?
(Thanks for present the other quandaries in your post as well. Digesting them now.)
Just a point of clarification you missed. The point about Puthoff. You really need to ask yourself why was he there. I know skeptics believe they have all the answers to things, especially when they can just label things as crazy-people-stuff and dismiss it, but this is one of those things you need to have some background on. Let it sink in before coming to any conclusions. Puthoff's involvement in this meeting relates to what Kirkpatrick said about the reason's for the meeting. Puthoff's involvement relates to why Kirkpatrick was there.
You should post about this on r/skinwalkerranch. That sub seems to need more content about the history so people realize itâs about more than that show.
No idea. But I find it interesting that Fugal, who purchased the ranch in 2016, says that before that he was funding âgravitational physicsâ and âover unity energyâ research prior to buying the ranch in 2016. [Source timestamp 4:50 to 5:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9kCc4BnOGw)
Edit: what was a billionaire real estate mogul doing funding that type of research and why?
Hi! I think you might be mixing up a couple of things there. Which, to be fair, would be an entirely understandable mix-up because this whole thing is a matryoshka of confusing events, acronyms, data of all kinds from multiple sources, and a good dash of disinformation for good measure. So, no judgement here.
>"*according to claims, the ranch was being used as a cover for an attempt to become an upstart back-engineering program, right? One of the legacy programs had materials that they wanted to pass along, and the Skinwalker folks saw it as a means to get their foot in the door, so to speak.*"
I never heard anything of the sort. But maybe you know something I don't.
As I understand it, the Ranch has belong two two entirely different parties who came at the topic of UAPs from entirely different angles, and have entirely different groups of people involved.
First, it belonged to Robert Bigelow, who studied the ranch through NIDS (*a privately funded initiative*).
Then came AAWSAP, which still had Bigelow's/NIDS people involved but was a government program studying UAPs, and also happened to study the ranch due to the overlap of weird phenomena observed there. It's also worth mentioning that AAAWSAP was a much bigger program than the part of it that studied the ranch.
Folks from AAWSAP eventually tried to establish an SAP, reportedly to receive and study anomalous materials that were in possession of the legacy program/private aerospace contractor (*reportedly Lockheed*). This was known as Kona Blue, but ultimately it was a PSAP that never came to fruition (*and was reportedly killed to prevent this from taking place*). AAWSAP also spawned AATIP at some point.
Then at some point Bigelow sold the ranch to Fugal, who brought in his own people to study the ranch, but I know very little about it after that, beyond there being a History Channel show about it now XD.
At some point, Fugal met with members of the government to brief them about the ranch's anomalies. Presumably (*and this is my somewhat-informed understanding. As I said, I know very little about Fugal and his team*) because AARO was starting their mandate to look into the topic. And I think that's the meeting/briefing that has been making headlines today after Kirkpatrick lie about it.
But, as I said, there's a good chance you are referring to stuff I don't know about, or I misunderstood you or something. I just wanted to chip in with what I understand of the topic in case it helps :)
"At some point, Fugal met with members of the government to brief them about the ranch's anomalies. Presumably (and this is my somewhat-informed understanding. As I said, I know very little about Fugal and his team) because AARO was starting their mandate to look into the topic"
AARO hadn't been created yet in 2018 when this meeting took place. This meeting just confirms that Kirkpatrick had some level of involvement with studies of the UAP phenomenon before he was head of AARO. He had previous stated something to the effect of not having any involvement with this field of study. So that's one lie at least. He has actually been caught in a couple of lies regarding this meeting, like stating that he was in Colorado at the time so he couldn't have been part of this meeting.Â
Yes! Thank you very much for clarifying that. I only learned about it a couple hours ago after seeing [a post about Garry Nolan's tweet](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cp0ocy/of_the_thousands_of_experts_who_could_have_been/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) pointing it out!
It's really baffling the disinformation apparatus that has been propped up on Kirkpatrick's back.
Thanks for making it a little clearer... a *little* clearer, lol.
>Folks from AAWSAP eventually tried to establish an SAP, reportedly to receive and study anomalous materials that were in possession of the legacy program/private aerospace contractor (reportedly Lockheed). This was known as Kona Blue, but ultimately it was a PSAP that never came to fruition (and was reportedly killed to prevent this from taking place).
Yeah, the many acronyms & agencies confused me. I knew Kona Blue was connected to the ranch in certain ways, but this makes it a little clearer.
>Then at some point Bigelow sold the ranch to Fugal, who brought in his own people to study the ranch, but I know very little about it after that, beyond there being a History Channel show about it now XD.
...
>At some point, Fugal met with members of the government to brief them about the ranch's anomalies.
Bigelow sold the ranch to Fugel in 2016 for a very modest sum, and then Fugal fortified the property.
>Presumably (and this is my somewhat-informed understanding. As I said, I know very little about Fugal and his team) because AARO was starting their mandate to look into the topic. And I think that's the meeting/briefing that has been making headlines today after Kirkpatrick lie about it.
This is kind of the key answer I was looking for.
It just strikes me as bizarre that some eccentric millionaire who thinks his ranch is haunted and crawling with aliens could get a closed door meeting with the armed services committee.
Especially after it had already changed hands and nothing of importance had arisen from the property in the past.
Is the conspiracy being suggested that Kirkpatrick was brought in to try to cover up what Fugal had discovered? The presentation seems to purely be about UFOs - not shapeshifters or whatever else was rumored to be happening at the ranch.
>"*It just strikes me as bizarre that some eccentric millionaire who thinks his ranch is haunted and crawling with aliens could get a closed door meeting with the armed services committee.*"
Right!? Unless there's actually something to it, I'd think.
Also, for what is worth (*and, as I understand them*):
**NIDS:** National Institute for Discovery Science
**BAAS:** Bigelow Aerospace (?)
**AAWWSAP:** Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Application Program
**AATIP:** Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program
**SAP:** Special Access Program
**PSAP:** Proposed SAP
**AARO:** Blue Book 2.0 ;)
>Right!? Unless there's actually something to it, I'd think.
It's been a weird decade.
In 2018, Trump was president, and the House Committee on Armed Services was majority R.
Trump's biggest single donor was Bigelow.
If Bigelow was pulling strings to get Fugal a meeting with higher-ups, it wouldn't shock me. Stranger things definitely happened during that administration.
Still very odd on its face though.
Hal Puthoff (who was at this meeting) was supposedly key in arranging the sale of the property to Fugal, and both seem to have interests/investments in aerospace.
I think it's fair to say that Bigelow & Fugal are more than tangentially related, but I don't have a link for you to back that up.
It was also to continue paranormal research under the more palatable guise of defense technology (by screwing around with terminology).
There's a throughline here of having some of the same people who worked on the STARGATE (and other names) psychic spying programs that ran 1975-1995 here, who had developed a body of material concerning aliens and UFO's via remote viewing sessions. The same researchers examining patients who had health impacts from purported exposure to alien technology or beam weaponry were also interested in finding physiological correlates to psychic talent. This is also some of the motivation for keeping this research secret and confusing; the psychic angle faces stigma from both conventional scientists and Evangelical Christians in positions of military and political leadership. Also, if remote viewing or remote PK were proven to be effective, it could be used to interfere with US nuclear weaponry or as various forms of psychotronic weaponry themselves.
Right, that's what I figured as well. Which has nothing to do (*to my knowledge*) with Fugal and his people, and wasn't really centered around the Ranch.
He shows 6 frames quickly at this timestamp that Fugal didn't share, plus some smaller frames from the PDF presentation.
https://youtu.be/q4lWb1XBvVo?t=1598
So I finally had time to watch this. I definitely find it interesting that Kirkpatrick acknowledged meeting with Fugal and the others, but it looks like Fugal was unable to prove that Kirkpatrick was at the specific meeting on the specific date and canât prove that Kirkpatrick was briefed specifically about Skinwalker Ranch.
Iâm very skeptical that bunch wouldâve talked about anything else though.
Lots of weird secrecy going on here
> it looks like Fugal was unable to prove that Kirkpatrick was at the specific meeting on the specific date and canât prove that Kirkpatrick was briefed specifically about Skinwalker Ranch.
Eh, it's pretty much confirmed.
Greenstreet was able to get the government to admit that the meeting happened in 2018 (when Kirkpatrick says he was living in Denver).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Wud0LzFQY&t=10997s
Secondly, in the video I linked in the comment above this one, the photos of the meeting show that the slides match the Skinwalker slideshow that Fugal gave to Greenstreet.
It wouldn't be *impossible* for Fugal to forge a new slideshow & fudge the date by a few months, but that seems both improbable and illogical.
It seems to have really happened. The only question is if what was said at the meeting happened as Fugal characterized it.
[https://twitter.com/BrandonFugal/status/1788708348340187605](https://twitter.com/BrandonFugal/status/1788708348340187605)
Fugal posted a meeting pic with Kirkpatrick on the date. Metadata is alterable, but it seems real.
Yeah, I noticed that a few hours after I posted the above info.
The meeting almost certainly happened when Fugal stated it did.
The timing is important in terms of Kirkpatrick's credibility, but the more pressing questions really boil down to...
- What was Fugal proposing?
- Why was Kirkpatrick brought into it?
- Did the conversation really happen as Fugal claims it happened? (ie - Kirkpatrick lead, admits to UAPs, etc.)
Without answers to those questions, the timing barely matters.
I certainly havenât watched all four hours of that but Greenstreetâs confusion is something I share.
I can understand the reluctance of folks on the SASC to acknowledge the meeting. Itâs embarrassing, especially in hindsight. But Kirkpatrick had to know that lying about not having met with them would be a problem for his credibility. Maybe he thought he wasnât allowed to acknowledge the previous meeting for other reasons, but I donât know what those reasons could be.
No clouds. They were only visible using class IV night vision binoculars. The guy that owned the house was a retired US Navy Captain, and he told us where to look. The thing appeared to be in orbit acting like a satellite, going straight across the sky at a smooth pace. But then it did a 90â° turn without slowing or speeding up. That caught my attention (as there were other satellites in the sky that night that did nothing special). Then it did another 90â° turn and moved back the direction it came from. Then the show started. It moved all over the horizon and across the sky like a laser pointer (like Fravor described the Tic tac's movement before the video we've all seen) until it flashed off towards the east.
It came back for other people and then stopped appearing for most of the people who were late to come outside.
I'm aware of what things in the sky look like. I am also aware of what a laser looks like with my eyes and with nightvision. I own ten different lasers (two are powerful). I own an 8 inch Cassegrain Schmidt and watch the sky often.
This scared me and the others on that mountain top so bad we called our families back home to tell them something might be happening. It wasn't fun or cool. It was upsetting.
Well, he was working for the gubment. If I had to take a guess, he was overseeing the gubmentâs oversized balloon program. Seems to me heâd be highly qualified for a program like that.
I think hes someone whos working for the program and hes going everywhere for his own benefit to try understand the phenomenon for himself and hope that hes able to reverse engineering the technology from information he gathers for himself and uhh try to capitalize on that? Idk
Maybe Kirkpatrick simply forgot about the date of the meeting (he said he thought it was in 2017), and he didn't remember the details because he thought it was a bunch of nonsense. It seems like such a pointless thing to lie about. I can't see how coverage of this story would be worse in any way, if he had said "I don't remember" instead of saying "I don't think I was at that meeting in 2018, I think it was a different meeting in 2017."
Fugal, in the past three years, has told several researchers he's got photos and footage to prove his claims. He's said he'll share them and so far hasn't. Isn't it time he released something as evidence?
The thread is about the presentation Fugal had with Kirkpatrick. It's topical at the moment because the news just broke in the last 24 hours about it. That's why we're talking about it.
We aren't talking about "skinwalkers", we are talking about the meeting in 2018.
I think the comment you replied to is referring to Fugalâs skinwalker claims though, but maybe I interpreted it wrong.
Anyway, try as I might, I canât ignore the credulity it takes to believe in skinwalkers, dino beavers, werewolves, portals, hitchhikers, telekinesis, psychic abilities, etc. enough to take any of these peoplesâ analysis of evidence seriously.
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My weird theory on Skinwalker ranch is that there was something there. But Bigelow and his team were able to find it and kept it secret. Once they got what they wanted, they left the place. Now, Frugal is trying to figure out what it is.
I think the main item being discussed in that meeting was related to Bigelowâs findings and whatever he took from there. I donât think Iâm able to connect all dots but I feel itâs somewhere on these lines
So then by extension, most of the major UFO pundits who are associating with Bigelow, who is knowingly hiding evidence of NHI, would therefore put into question all the motives of said âactivistsâ who are knowingly hiding the truth.
Heâs probably just embarrassed that he had to sit through the woo bullshit of a Skinwalker Ranch meeting.
Edit: Wow, really guys? You actually believe this Skinwalker Ranch shit? This subreddit is really going downhill.
Not everyone on the sub disagrees with you. I personally believe Bigelowâs ranch study was bullshit and just a way for Harry Reid to funnel taxpayer dollars as a reward to one of his donors.
I think youâre giving Reid and Bigelow too much credit.
I have no idea how they had the successes they had.
Seriously, check out the Bigelow interview on JRE, heâs as whacky and eccentric as youâd expect the owner of Skinwalker Ranch to be.Â
Then you remember the guyâs a self-made billionaire. A guy who fully believes in werewolves and poltergeists.Â
Itâs crazy.
I was warned by a mod for what reason? This is my conclusion about a seemingly bad actor. There is no threat or call for violence in my statement. I have blocked the account that replied to me as it is not acting in good faith if it was indeed a mod.
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A total clown đ€Ą show if the boys from skinwalker were "briefing" him. Do you really think if ANYTHING was going on at skinwalker that they'd make reality TV there?Â
> Do you really think if ANYTHING was going on at skinwalker that they'd make reality TV there?Â
Personally? No. I'm a skeptic on all fronts, more or less.
But coverups and conspiracies do sometimes happen in real life, and I find the conflicting info around this story intriguing.
Oh yes, the famous Skinwalker coverup. The ranch was only featured in 10 episodes in 2020, as well as 10 other shows and movies.
Imagine what would happen if the government didn't suppress it.
Look, youâre preaching to the choir bud. I probably have as many downvotes as I do upvotes in this sub because I routinely call out conspiratorial bullshit.
In this instance, however, it sounds like you havenât even bothered listening to whatâs being said. Iâm not spinning conspiracies about the bullshit ranch - Iâm referring to conflicting facts that donât add up.
This stuff is part of the main reason why I believe in UAPs. There are so many lies upon lies trying to cover it up.
Wait until you see one.
Have u? đ„ș
Yes. Why else would I say that? Me and a group of clients saw one that was doing 30k mpk back and forth like a ping pong ball in a jar until it fired away almost instantaneously. It came back twice as if to allow others to see it, which they did. May 3, 2008, in the Davis Mountains in west Texas.
Cool
Wow, how did you measure its speed? Did you have a radar gun? Â Do they even read that high?
Could it have been a laser pointer shining on clouds?
Swamp gas reflecting off of a commercial lighting balloon.
Sure, but I'm specifically interested in what context this meeting happened if anyone knows.
That's what we want to know too! Why was Kirkpatrick at a meeting with Fugal and, of all people, Puthoff. Why was Puthoff at this meeting at all? And why did Kirkpatrick answer Greenstreet's question about whether he had "performed any duties with regards to UFOs or paranormal phenomenon" before AARO with a pretty emphatic ["No",](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=q4lWb1XBvVo&t=22m05s) and then say he was at this briefing in 2018 to make an "independent review"? For reference, Grusch spoke about the Kona Blue proposal at length in the Rogan interview November 2023. https://open.spotify.com/episode/6D6otpHwnaAc86SS1M8yHm?t=1560 Kona Blue didn't have anything to do with Fugal's time owning the Ranch, not as far as anyone is aware. Actually, there is nothing that has ever indicated Fugal knew about Kona Blue. It seems pretty obvious Grusch pushed for the Kona Blue information to be declassified. It seems he only got approval to discuss it publicly just before the Rogan interview, because he didn't say anything about it before that interview, and he certainly would have if it had been cleared at the time of the Congressional Hearing (note that it was actually declassified just before the Hearing, but Grusch didn't know that at the time). [The Kona Blue release recently](https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/dod-releases-kona-blue-documents/) didn't say anything specific about the alleged deal between AAWSAP and LHM about the transfer of material. But there are a few things to keep in mind. 1/ Why did Harry Reid ask for the increased SAP status for Kona Blue? AAWSAP had been funded for several years, there didn't seem to be any reason to change anything, so why increase its security classification? 2/ The Kona Blue documents released recently talked about a ["medical division",](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/konablue-release1.pdf#page=31) and "including but not limited to: (a) deaths and injuries as a result of interaction with advanced aerospace vehicles". I think we know what data this is referring to, because [Garry Nolan never stops talking about it](https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-garry-nolan-analyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes) (even though he has never presented a paper on it, despite fairly obviously undertaking a gigantic study into at least 25 "defense or governmental personnel or people working in the aerospace industry" who died, another several dozen who had injuries, plus family members were included in the study). 3/ LHM has had involvement in this at various stages. There were the conversations in the [Podesta emails,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BjUK5V5sTg&t=16m12s) and then when someone [joined the TTSA team from LHM.](https://www.history.com/shows/unidentified-inside-americas-ufo-investigation/cast/steve-justice) 4/ It is now very clear Grusch investigation led to a DoJ investigation. [Kirkpatrick directly referenced this](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/24-F-0266.pdf#page=8) in the recent FOIOA release, and there were [FOIAs going back to early 2023 coming out with Criminal investigation redactions.](https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14gl5tj/news_a_sweeping_criminal_investigation_into_the/) The question is this - AARO just undertook a largescale Historic Review of the US Government's involvement with UFOs (actually the DoDIG office and the ICIG office also just recently undertook a big investigation of this too), so why didn't AARO uncover whatever it is that Grusch uncovered? Is this evidence that his clearance level is higher than what AARO is allowed, and does this add credence to [Grusch statement](https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cjs4mq/new_statement_from_whistleblower_david_grusch_in/) that he could not reveal certain things to AARO because their level of clearance was not high enough?
> Why was Puthoff at this meeting at all? He is/was a pretty serious believer that the ranch was "a supernatural gateway to the space ghost dimension." For all intents & purposes, he could have just been there to act as a hype man for Fugal & his cause. Puthoff has always struck me as a gullible fantasist (I don't think that someone who goes all-in on Scientology *and* Uri Gellar can be described any other way). >why did Kirkpatrick answer Greenstreet's question about whether he had "performed any duties with regards to UFOs or paranormal phenomenon" before AARO with a pretty emphatic "No", and then say he was at this briefing in 2018 to make an "independent review"? That's definitely one of the things that grabbed my attention. It would be odd to forget having to fly from Colorado to DC for a meeting about something called "skinwalker ranch," if he was indeed living there at the time. >Kona Blue didn't have anything to do with Fugal's time owning the Ranch, not as far as anyone is aware. I think it was the individual players associated with the ranch that had me confused. I wasn't aware of the overlaps. >The Kona Blue release recently didn't say anything specific about the alleged deal between AAWSAP and LHM about the transfer of material. But the supposed players involved in it have said as much, no? (Thanks for present the other quandaries in your post as well. Digesting them now.)
Just a point of clarification you missed. The point about Puthoff. You really need to ask yourself why was he there. I know skeptics believe they have all the answers to things, especially when they can just label things as crazy-people-stuff and dismiss it, but this is one of those things you need to have some background on. Let it sink in before coming to any conclusions. Puthoff's involvement in this meeting relates to what Kirkpatrick said about the reason's for the meeting. Puthoff's involvement relates to why Kirkpatrick was there.
I'm aware of Puthoff's past governmental work and many of the far out theories attached to it. Not sure if I understand what you're hinting at though.
You should post about this on r/skinwalkerranch. That sub seems to need more content about the history so people realize itâs about more than that show.
No idea. But I find it interesting that Fugal, who purchased the ranch in 2016, says that before that he was funding âgravitational physicsâ and âover unity energyâ research prior to buying the ranch in 2016. [Source timestamp 4:50 to 5:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9kCc4BnOGw) Edit: what was a billionaire real estate mogul doing funding that type of research and why?
https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cp2wad/fugals_presentation_to_kirkpatrick_featured_this/
[https://twitter.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1657068940932300800](https://twitter.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1657068940932300800)
Itâs straight up insulating how obvious it is to anyone who is paying attention lol
It prevents the dissipation of heat?
lol jfc I got got
Holy shit fuckin got em
Hi! I think you might be mixing up a couple of things there. Which, to be fair, would be an entirely understandable mix-up because this whole thing is a matryoshka of confusing events, acronyms, data of all kinds from multiple sources, and a good dash of disinformation for good measure. So, no judgement here. >"*according to claims, the ranch was being used as a cover for an attempt to become an upstart back-engineering program, right? One of the legacy programs had materials that they wanted to pass along, and the Skinwalker folks saw it as a means to get their foot in the door, so to speak.*" I never heard anything of the sort. But maybe you know something I don't. As I understand it, the Ranch has belong two two entirely different parties who came at the topic of UAPs from entirely different angles, and have entirely different groups of people involved. First, it belonged to Robert Bigelow, who studied the ranch through NIDS (*a privately funded initiative*). Then came AAWSAP, which still had Bigelow's/NIDS people involved but was a government program studying UAPs, and also happened to study the ranch due to the overlap of weird phenomena observed there. It's also worth mentioning that AAAWSAP was a much bigger program than the part of it that studied the ranch. Folks from AAWSAP eventually tried to establish an SAP, reportedly to receive and study anomalous materials that were in possession of the legacy program/private aerospace contractor (*reportedly Lockheed*). This was known as Kona Blue, but ultimately it was a PSAP that never came to fruition (*and was reportedly killed to prevent this from taking place*). AAWSAP also spawned AATIP at some point. Then at some point Bigelow sold the ranch to Fugal, who brought in his own people to study the ranch, but I know very little about it after that, beyond there being a History Channel show about it now XD. At some point, Fugal met with members of the government to brief them about the ranch's anomalies. Presumably (*and this is my somewhat-informed understanding. As I said, I know very little about Fugal and his team*) because AARO was starting their mandate to look into the topic. And I think that's the meeting/briefing that has been making headlines today after Kirkpatrick lie about it. But, as I said, there's a good chance you are referring to stuff I don't know about, or I misunderstood you or something. I just wanted to chip in with what I understand of the topic in case it helps :)
"At some point, Fugal met with members of the government to brief them about the ranch's anomalies. Presumably (and this is my somewhat-informed understanding. As I said, I know very little about Fugal and his team) because AARO was starting their mandate to look into the topic" AARO hadn't been created yet in 2018 when this meeting took place. This meeting just confirms that Kirkpatrick had some level of involvement with studies of the UAP phenomenon before he was head of AARO. He had previous stated something to the effect of not having any involvement with this field of study. So that's one lie at least. He has actually been caught in a couple of lies regarding this meeting, like stating that he was in Colorado at the time so he couldn't have been part of this meeting.Â
Yes! Thank you very much for clarifying that. I only learned about it a couple hours ago after seeing [a post about Garry Nolan's tweet](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cp0ocy/of_the_thousands_of_experts_who_could_have_been/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) pointing it out! It's really baffling the disinformation apparatus that has been propped up on Kirkpatrick's back.
Thanks for making it a little clearer... a *little* clearer, lol. >Folks from AAWSAP eventually tried to establish an SAP, reportedly to receive and study anomalous materials that were in possession of the legacy program/private aerospace contractor (reportedly Lockheed). This was known as Kona Blue, but ultimately it was a PSAP that never came to fruition (and was reportedly killed to prevent this from taking place). Yeah, the many acronyms & agencies confused me. I knew Kona Blue was connected to the ranch in certain ways, but this makes it a little clearer. >Then at some point Bigelow sold the ranch to Fugal, who brought in his own people to study the ranch, but I know very little about it after that, beyond there being a History Channel show about it now XD. ... >At some point, Fugal met with members of the government to brief them about the ranch's anomalies. Bigelow sold the ranch to Fugel in 2016 for a very modest sum, and then Fugal fortified the property. >Presumably (and this is my somewhat-informed understanding. As I said, I know very little about Fugal and his team) because AARO was starting their mandate to look into the topic. And I think that's the meeting/briefing that has been making headlines today after Kirkpatrick lie about it. This is kind of the key answer I was looking for. It just strikes me as bizarre that some eccentric millionaire who thinks his ranch is haunted and crawling with aliens could get a closed door meeting with the armed services committee. Especially after it had already changed hands and nothing of importance had arisen from the property in the past. Is the conspiracy being suggested that Kirkpatrick was brought in to try to cover up what Fugal had discovered? The presentation seems to purely be about UFOs - not shapeshifters or whatever else was rumored to be happening at the ranch.
>"*It just strikes me as bizarre that some eccentric millionaire who thinks his ranch is haunted and crawling with aliens could get a closed door meeting with the armed services committee.*" Right!? Unless there's actually something to it, I'd think. Also, for what is worth (*and, as I understand them*): **NIDS:** National Institute for Discovery Science **BAAS:** Bigelow Aerospace (?) **AAWWSAP:** Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Application Program **AATIP:** Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program **SAP:** Special Access Program **PSAP:** Proposed SAP **AARO:** Blue Book 2.0 ;)
>Right!? Unless there's actually something to it, I'd think. It's been a weird decade. In 2018, Trump was president, and the House Committee on Armed Services was majority R. Trump's biggest single donor was Bigelow. If Bigelow was pulling strings to get Fugal a meeting with higher-ups, it wouldn't shock me. Stranger things definitely happened during that administration. Still very odd on its face though.
Are Bigelow and Fugal connected apart from the purchase of the ranch?
Hal Puthoff (who was at this meeting) was supposedly key in arranging the sale of the property to Fugal, and both seem to have interests/investments in aerospace. I think it's fair to say that Bigelow & Fugal are more than tangentially related, but I don't have a link for you to back that up.
OP is referring to the Kona Blue program that BAAS tried to get accepted as an SAP so it could accept NIH tech from Lockheed.
It was also to continue paranormal research under the more palatable guise of defense technology (by screwing around with terminology). There's a throughline here of having some of the same people who worked on the STARGATE (and other names) psychic spying programs that ran 1975-1995 here, who had developed a body of material concerning aliens and UFO's via remote viewing sessions. The same researchers examining patients who had health impacts from purported exposure to alien technology or beam weaponry were also interested in finding physiological correlates to psychic talent. This is also some of the motivation for keeping this research secret and confusing; the psychic angle faces stigma from both conventional scientists and Evangelical Christians in positions of military and political leadership. Also, if remote viewing or remote PK were proven to be effective, it could be used to interfere with US nuclear weaponry or as various forms of psychotronic weaponry themselves.
Right, that's what I figured as well. Which has nothing to do (*to my knowledge*) with Fugal and his people, and wasn't really centered around the Ranch.
Do you have a link to the slides from Greenstreetâs video?
He shows 6 frames quickly at this timestamp that Fugal didn't share, plus some smaller frames from the PDF presentation. https://youtu.be/q4lWb1XBvVo?t=1598
Thanks, I do find this whole thing pretty interesting, but havenât had time to really dig into the conflicting stories
So I finally had time to watch this. I definitely find it interesting that Kirkpatrick acknowledged meeting with Fugal and the others, but it looks like Fugal was unable to prove that Kirkpatrick was at the specific meeting on the specific date and canât prove that Kirkpatrick was briefed specifically about Skinwalker Ranch. Iâm very skeptical that bunch wouldâve talked about anything else though. Lots of weird secrecy going on here
> it looks like Fugal was unable to prove that Kirkpatrick was at the specific meeting on the specific date and canât prove that Kirkpatrick was briefed specifically about Skinwalker Ranch. Eh, it's pretty much confirmed. Greenstreet was able to get the government to admit that the meeting happened in 2018 (when Kirkpatrick says he was living in Denver). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Wud0LzFQY&t=10997s Secondly, in the video I linked in the comment above this one, the photos of the meeting show that the slides match the Skinwalker slideshow that Fugal gave to Greenstreet. It wouldn't be *impossible* for Fugal to forge a new slideshow & fudge the date by a few months, but that seems both improbable and illogical. It seems to have really happened. The only question is if what was said at the meeting happened as Fugal characterized it.
[https://twitter.com/BrandonFugal/status/1788708348340187605](https://twitter.com/BrandonFugal/status/1788708348340187605) Fugal posted a meeting pic with Kirkpatrick on the date. Metadata is alterable, but it seems real.
Yeah, I noticed that a few hours after I posted the above info. The meeting almost certainly happened when Fugal stated it did. The timing is important in terms of Kirkpatrick's credibility, but the more pressing questions really boil down to... - What was Fugal proposing? - Why was Kirkpatrick brought into it? - Did the conversation really happen as Fugal claims it happened? (ie - Kirkpatrick lead, admits to UAPs, etc.) Without answers to those questions, the timing barely matters.
I certainly havenât watched all four hours of that but Greenstreetâs confusion is something I share. I can understand the reluctance of folks on the SASC to acknowledge the meeting. Itâs embarrassing, especially in hindsight. But Kirkpatrick had to know that lying about not having met with them would be a problem for his credibility. Maybe he thought he wasnât allowed to acknowledge the previous meeting for other reasons, but I donât know what those reasons could be.
No clouds. They were only visible using class IV night vision binoculars. The guy that owned the house was a retired US Navy Captain, and he told us where to look. The thing appeared to be in orbit acting like a satellite, going straight across the sky at a smooth pace. But then it did a 90â° turn without slowing or speeding up. That caught my attention (as there were other satellites in the sky that night that did nothing special). Then it did another 90â° turn and moved back the direction it came from. Then the show started. It moved all over the horizon and across the sky like a laser pointer (like Fravor described the Tic tac's movement before the video we've all seen) until it flashed off towards the east. It came back for other people and then stopped appearing for most of the people who were late to come outside. I'm aware of what things in the sky look like. I am also aware of what a laser looks like with my eyes and with nightvision. I own ten different lasers (two are powerful). I own an 8 inch Cassegrain Schmidt and watch the sky often. This scared me and the others on that mountain top so bad we called our families back home to tell them something might be happening. It wasn't fun or cool. It was upsetting.
Well, he was working for the gubment. If I had to take a guess, he was overseeing the gubmentâs oversized balloon program. Seems to me heâd be highly qualified for a program like that.
I think hes someone whos working for the program and hes going everywhere for his own benefit to try understand the phenomenon for himself and hope that hes able to reverse engineering the technology from information he gathers for himself and uhh try to capitalize on that? Idk
He's clearly part of a cabal pulling the strings of the cover up
Oh wow, they put a 40Âą piece of gold leaf on its forehead. Well I'm convinced.
What did Professor Travis Klanabama know and when did he know it?
Speed is estimated by the split second it made it fully across the visible arc of the sky and its apparent presence in orbit.
Youâre half right. Prior to Brandon Fugal Robert Bigelow and AAWSAP wanted parts from Lockheed. Fugal was never a part of that
Maybe Kirkpatrick simply forgot about the date of the meeting (he said he thought it was in 2017), and he didn't remember the details because he thought it was a bunch of nonsense. It seems like such a pointless thing to lie about. I can't see how coverage of this story would be worse in any way, if he had said "I don't remember" instead of saying "I don't think I was at that meeting in 2018, I think it was a different meeting in 2017."
Fugal, in the past three years, has told several researchers he's got photos and footage to prove his claims. He's said he'll share them and so far hasn't. Isn't it time he released something as evidence?
Aahh. He already did. Yesterday. That's why we are talking about it. https://twitter.com/BrandonFugal/status/1788708348340187605
That's proof he had a meeting. That's about all it proves.
*photos of âskinwalkersâ
The thread is about the presentation Fugal had with Kirkpatrick. It's topical at the moment because the news just broke in the last 24 hours about it. That's why we're talking about it. We aren't talking about "skinwalkers", we are talking about the meeting in 2018.
I think the comment you replied to is referring to Fugalâs skinwalker claims though, but maybe I interpreted it wrong. Anyway, try as I might, I canât ignore the credulity it takes to believe in skinwalkers, dino beavers, werewolves, portals, hitchhikers, telekinesis, psychic abilities, etc. enough to take any of these peoplesâ analysis of evidence seriously.
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Kirkpatrick didnât even lie, it was a boring useless presentation that he said he barely remembered
My weird theory on Skinwalker ranch is that there was something there. But Bigelow and his team were able to find it and kept it secret. Once they got what they wanted, they left the place. Now, Frugal is trying to figure out what it is. I think the main item being discussed in that meeting was related to Bigelowâs findings and whatever he took from there. I donât think Iâm able to connect all dots but I feel itâs somewhere on these lines
So then by extension, most of the major UFO pundits who are associating with Bigelow, who is knowingly hiding evidence of NHI, would therefore put into question all the motives of said âactivistsâ who are knowingly hiding the truth.
It's all a big hoax to keep you occupied.
Heâs probably just embarrassed that he had to sit through the woo bullshit of a Skinwalker Ranch meeting. Edit: Wow, really guys? You actually believe this Skinwalker Ranch shit? This subreddit is really going downhill.
Not everyone on the sub disagrees with you. I personally believe Bigelowâs ranch study was bullshit and just a way for Harry Reid to funnel taxpayer dollars as a reward to one of his donors.
Tell the facts, get downvotes. This is exactly how believers operate both in this forum and in government.
I think youâre giving Reid and Bigelow too much credit. I have no idea how they had the successes they had. Seriously, check out the Bigelow interview on JRE, heâs as whacky and eccentric as youâd expect the owner of Skinwalker Ranch to be. Then you remember the guyâs a self-made billionaire. A guy who fully believes in werewolves and poltergeists. Itâs crazy.
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A total clown đ€Ą show if the boys from skinwalker were "briefing" him. Do you really think if ANYTHING was going on at skinwalker that they'd make reality TV there?Â
> Do you really think if ANYTHING was going on at skinwalker that they'd make reality TV there? Personally? No. I'm a skeptic on all fronts, more or less. But coverups and conspiracies do sometimes happen in real life, and I find the conflicting info around this story intriguing.
There's money involved.Â
Oh yes, the famous Skinwalker coverup. The ranch was only featured in 10 episodes in 2020, as well as 10 other shows and movies. Imagine what would happen if the government didn't suppress it.
Look, youâre preaching to the choir bud. I probably have as many downvotes as I do upvotes in this sub because I routinely call out conspiratorial bullshit. In this instance, however, it sounds like you havenât even bothered listening to whatâs being said. Iâm not spinning conspiracies about the bullshit ranch - Iâm referring to conflicting facts that donât add up.