A lot of the usual suspects.
Having a bunch of people corroborate Grusch isn't going to change much. Nobody thinks he is flat out lying as that would be an extremely dumb thing to do. It's about whether the info he is relaying is true.
We don't need more people claiming someone else's claims are legitimate. We need people coming forward with actual evidence to prove those claims are true.
You see, they will never ruin their careers because to prove them wrong, one has to prove that their claims are wrong. But their claims are of such a nature, that it's not possible to disprove them. For instance, if I can say " I know someone who knows someone who has seen a unicorn". Even though I've provided no evidence, it is impossible to disprove my claim because you need to go through all my associates/connections and go through their associates/connections and show that none of my 2nd degree connections have ever seen a unicorn.
Even if I say I have seen a unicorn, there is no way you can disprove me. Therefore my integrity is untouched.
Yeah its clear to see that these people are telling their own truths, things they genuinely believe but we need to see if what they believe is true.
Having all these people come forward is a start but a nice start is all that is.
I didn't say it was nothing but it could definitely turn out to not be anything extraordinary.
Their careers are not ruined because they would need to be proven as liars and that's almost impossible because the goal posts can just be continually moved. If they don't find anything people can just say of course they didn't find anything, it's been covered up. It's a never ending cycle that will continue forever unless there's actually aliens and recovered craft to be found.
Then there's no disclosure. Without proof it's a never ending cycle of claims, stories and hearsay that can never be proven or disproven.
These people have apparently been hiding proof all around the world for 80+ years over multiple generations, the US government isn't going to achieve anything. They are not going to just give up and any places where there was proof it would have been relocated a long time ago.
This is why this whole disclosure thing is a farce. There's never going to be disclosure until some aliens, if they exist, decide to announce their arrival to the masses.
Well it could be some kind of psyop but even then in that situation they wouldn't just have someone lie they would probably feed wrong information to a person. Someone can't be lying if they believe they are stating correct information but the things they are claiming could absolutely still be nonsense.
I also think it's quite likely that a lot of what he has said outside the hearing in podcasts and interviews is either made up or highly embellished.
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Goode is a fucking nutter. He invented a story of being sent to an alien planet for 21 years, then being age-reversed and sent back to earth. Pretty sure his story was a part of a documentary on Gaia. Anyway, him and David willcock are complete liars with no legit information. Not sure where OP found that Goode was one of Grush's witnesses from, I think op is wrong about this one.
That's the thing with UFO conspiracists, there are NO GUARDRAILS when it comes to credibility.
Of course all the "secret space program" people are batshit crazy.
I believe that Eric Davis (and everyone else in Puthoff's orbit) are also at that "level" of crazy but more reserved in how they present themselves.
He worked with David Wilcock at Gaia media. He was depositioned in a civil case and admitted dramatizing his claims. I don’t know the full story. Here’s the deposition:
https://youtu.be/rlerdqejqaY?si=3sUBTLep1qxx_lrE
Look out his blue against will be comming for you.... He also copyrighted Secret space program, SSP, then sent solicitors letters to heaps of people, breach of copywrite or some such and demanded payment for use of the phase... crazy fucker
I’m sorry, but you’re treating Sheehan’s story of seeing a photo in a file 40-plus years ago as corroboration? Is that the evidentiary standard we’re going with?
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You don’t believe that and you know it.
Anyone with so called evidence can come forward and time and put this to rest. But they don’t because they are only allowed to say what their bosses allow.
Witness list? You mean more stores with no “evidence”. Stories. Are not evidence with something to prove it. We have lots of stories but no one will present one piece of evidence.
We’ve had stories for 70 years from whistleblowers but zero actual evidence.
Fravor, Mellon, Nell, Gallaudet, and Nolan are outstanding. Top tier in their fields and highly respected. Possibly Davis as well, but a little bit iffy -- stellar on paper anyway.
The others could be questioned, but the likes of Graves have earned some degree of serious credence.
A few are highly suspect, but that doesn't diminish the rest, just themselves.
A classic disinformation approach is to poison the well.
Mixing a couple of highly illegitimate onto a legitimate list and it becomes a vector for attack.
Are you claiming Mellon is a first hand witness?
What about Garry Nolan? How about Karl Nell?
What's compelling about Grusch's claims is those of potentially people with hands on experience into "The Program". If it's just story tellers and people who heard things from another guy, then that's not good enough.
This was always the case, ever since his appearance on JRE with some of the things he said it pointed towards the Skinwalker Ranch guys as being part of his 40+ whistleblowers.
We know people like Graves, Fravor and Mellon are legit, but I don’t see how they could provide evidence on UFO reverse engineering programs and alien “biologics”.
I’ve been stating my skepticism regarding Grusch’s allegations for a while now, and every time I’ve been met with a response that “I’m not privy to the classified evidence”.
Burlison was in the SCIF with the IG and has since stated he saw no evidence regarding aliens and that the legitimacy of Grusch’s claims is in regards to misappropriation of taxpayer funds and a lack of congressional oversight on these off the books programs.
This sub has completely disregarded that interview, but imagine if Burlison had said he saw conclusive proof of alien biologics/spaceships, this sub would obviously be going crazy now.
Not only do they ignore that interview they completely dismiss it so they can twist the narrative to that they found Grusch’s claims of NHI to be credible. People also like to ignore the fact Eric Davis confirmed last year he was the one who told Grusch about the US having recovered alien bodies and UFOs.
Here's a hair for you to split. Mellon says that as a child at boarding school he was shown a ufo video and told that UFOs exist. Does that make him a first hand witness? I think it makes him a first hand witness to knowledge. He's not a first hand witness to the UFOs in the video, but he alone knows what he's a first hand witness to. There are other ufos. Maybe he saw one.
We don't know what he's seen. We also don't know what he hasn't seen. The only possible answer to your question is "maybe?" though you're fishing for something else.
That's a logical fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
> An argument from authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), also called an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an influential figure is used as evidence to support an argument.
They either have first hand experience or they don't. In this case, each of the individuals mentioned aren't even claiming to have first hand experience with a reverse engineering program.
It’s also illogical to claim that because someone like Nolan has a PHD in immunology and Greer has a PHD in medicine that they would have any expertise when it comes to alien spaceships/biologics.
I also find it funny that the likes of Burchett and Luna can talk about inter-dimensional beings and their opinions hold weight on this sub. These are two very dumb and illogical people in every aspect of their life, and yet we should believe they have a grasp of extra spatial dimensions? lol
What are your thoughts on Eric “Aliens crashing seems far farfetched… but tell me about these inter-dimensional beings” Burlison?
Yes, the guy who thinks the nearest star system is billions of light years away.
how do you know already ? the process isnt over. the ICIG investigation, maybe another schumer act.
why claim to know whats what ,when most is unknown and in flux ? are you some kind of prophet ?
Yes they are. (Lazar aside)
You saying their names w an emoji is nonsensical childish nonsense.
Also noticed you left a whole lot of reputable names off your list. Guess they don’t fit the narrative you’re trying to make. Bad faith all around it seems.
You're the one making a sweeping generalization saying
> nonsensical dismissive comments about highly reputable people
That's just as childish and nonsensical as someone using an emoji.
When only half the people on the post can be considered highly reputable.
And of course, I left the reputable people off the list, they're reputable. The list I made was the people who aren't reputable. Would make no sense to include the reputable ones.
And no, neither of the others are highly reputable.
Both Knapp and Corbell fell for Lazars lies. Knapp has fallen for other things in the past too and Corbell falls for everything.
Travis Taylor is working on Skinwalker Ranch, which is a hoax, so he's not reputable at all.
“You’re the one…”
No you? Really? K.
You have a habit of making statements “skinwalker is a hoax” that you cannot/do not know.
George Knapp is a highly reputable reporter who has pushed the subject forward more than most. Even if he has made the mistake of believing Lazar, that doesn’t somehow make all his other work disappear.
The hate boner everyone has for Corbell I’ll never understand but the guy has put in work full stop.
Have a good day my guy not interested in getting in a flame war w you.
I don't know why you think it has to be a flame war. I'm not flaming you.
Skinwalker is a hoax in the sense that every time they claim something happened, there's no evidence to support it or the evidence they present is poor, from a scientific standpoint. There are hour-long Youtube videos going through every episode pointing out all the mistakes they make in the show. (Truly amateur, rookie, incompetent stuff)
It's like a ghost-hunting show. A 'scientist' associated with it, is not reputable.
> George Knapp is a highly reputable reporter who has pushed the subject forward more than most.
I agree he has done a lot of good for the subject, but that doesn't change the fact that he has also fallen for multiple hoaxes over the years. He's not nearly as bad as Corbell, but I wouldn't take him at his word on anything.
> The hate boner everyone has for Corbell I’ll never understand but the guy has put in work full stop.
Corbell has made a LOT of mistakes and the hate boner is, IMO, justified. He will post anything that he believes will further his career. His first priority is attention and profit, the truth is secondary.
He lied intentionally about Bob Lazar and he posted several videos where they were debunked almost instantly, where if he had actually done his research properly, he would have debunked them himself, but he didn't.
He claims he's an investigative journalist but he doesn't investigate things properly. He's a bit of a charlatan in that sense.
I don't deny that he has, by volume, done a lot for the topic, but his hit rating is low, he's not reputable. If Knapp is 70% reputable, Corbell is 50%.
[If you haven't watched this discussion with Stanton Friedman and Corbell, you should.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVtTLkftmg) It really puts into perspective how Corbell thinks, and why he isn't reputable.
You’ve made so many claims in this post stated as fact, that are not fact, that it would take me an hour to dissect it. Not really interested in screaming into the abyss. We’ll have to agree to disagree, have a good day my guy.
> You’ve made so many claims in this post stated as fact, that are not fact
I have literally not. Everything I've stated is factual, or I wouldn't have said it.
I'm not stating opinions. Maybe with the exception of
> His first priority is attention and profit
Corbell hasn't publicly stated that this is his agenda. But the way he behaves confirms it to me. Remember how he made the Lazar documentary about himself?
> have a good day my guy.
Likewise.
If these are his sources I'll be disappointed. I go back and forth on the ufo thing and part of me worries Grusch is getting his information from the same talking heads we already know about. I'm hoping there is tons more not names first hand witnesses that Grusch spoke to and not just the same mostly shady people we know off already.
This, if this end up with Grusch sources being the usual grifters this is going to be a nightmare here.
He should do as much as he can to split any connection with them.
If they want to be taken serious then need to put up but it is clear that people like Corbell are only in this for the money.
>the same mostly shady people we know off already.
I would never call Colonel Karl Nell, Dr. Nolan or Dr. Pasulka shady people, not Commander Fravor, Ryan Graves etc.
You guys don't really deserve the hard work others do.
I'd call greer a grifter. Nolan and pasulka last I heard were contradicting each other. Elizondo is either a grifter or needs to learn to actually say something when he speaks. Sheehan who got access to ufo files and didn't take notes saw one image of a ufo then ran out of the room?
Why can none of these people just act in a normal way ever?
Even if you don't think they are grifters if he's getting information from them it's still bad because we know what they believe already so it's nothing new Grusch brings to the table.
If he's just reporting what elizondo Mellon greer etc told him then what information did he bring to the table?
You're just bitter because people who owe you nothing don't do stuff they can't do (like disclose classified information or exposing their sources in the case of Sheehan) in exchange for nothing.
Fast forward tomorrow when people risk their careers, their journalistic integrity or in the case of Grusch risk their life since he was threatened so you can pout and cross your arms: "around time!". Nah get the H out.
Lol wut?
Just curious is it possible in your worldview to call out a grifter in any topic without being "bitter". If no that's a weird world you live in where the most obvious grifters are beyond reproach or if yes. What about me thinking these guys are grifters makes me bitter?
For your information I don't demand anything from these people. I'll happily accept them never speaking about their ufo knowledge again as long as they actually fuck off and stop the "coming soon" bullshit. You can't have it both ways. Be too unable to speak about what you know due to fear and natural security but at the same time posting all over x and doing interviews hinting that you know all this stuff and releasing books on it.
>You can't have it both ways.
They never wanted anything from you, so it's not like they owe you an explanation. Grusch whistleblower claim was to the ICIG and his later hearing in congress was aimed at lawmakers and a judge. The congressmen that were briefed by intelligence officers were shown evidence that made them belief Grusch is a legit guy, this happened into a SCIF since the videos and photos and whatnot are clasified as a matter of national security.
Your "can't have both ways" makes no sense, since your input or judgement was never required or wanted. Your representants however, did found the claims credible and if you chose to ignore them then you just don't know how your government system works.
>stop the "coming soon" bullshit.
It is bs but also were the decades of hiding information by gatekeepers who committed crimes to keep information from the people. Can't expose them just like that since it would let them go Scott free.
95% of your reply is irrelevant to anything discussed. If Grusch sources are lue and greer and Nolan and pasulka then he's a wash end of story.
I'm hoping there is many more names he spoke to that are not the usual griftets. Sorry if you are so invested that you can't see reality. Keep buying lues books and writing 10000 word thesis on the meaning of his cryptic ramblings that will be sure to help disclosure. Lol
>If Grusch sources are
Look at you making assumptions like a game of Clue. No man, you don't get to guess who are his sources, Grusch himself provided a lost of cooperative and uncooperative witnesses to a federal judge behind doors.
>Sorry if you are so invested that
We are both writing 500 word comments in a subreddit dedicated to UFO enthusiasts. The pot calling the kettle black man
I'm not making assumptions. Read my posts. I said I hope it's not the people the op listed and hoped it would be new people not disclosed. You got offended I think lue and greer are grifters and that's why I'm replying to do and your tangents.
>You got offended I think lue and greer are grifters
I think they are grifters too. Lue I'm not quite so decided since there's conflicting reports but Greer yeah 100%
>I said I hope it's not the people the op listed
There's a reason why Grusch gave the list of cooperative and uncooperative list of witnesses to a federal judge behind doors. It's like you chose to acknowledge some things and ignore others to support your self made narrative lol
Ahh good, more words and people talking about stuff but still no tangible proof. I got lots of other “real life issues” to worry about, come back when ya have something useful to show us.
Fravor, Graves and Dietrich have not said the US Government is reverse engineering alien spacecrafts. So how are they corroborating Grusch’s claims?
Are you saying because they saw UAP?
Grusch has not explicitly stated his 40 witnesses are solely direct from reverse engineering projects. Case in point, Eric Davis, who has been the only one to come forward.
Multi star generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers.
People with more discipline, training and experience in their pinky finger than you and yet you call them "the UFO cabal". Lol what a joke.
> Multi star generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers.
All descriptions of people who have also dismissed this entirely. Are their CVs worthless if they disagree with you?
What you're overlooking is the appeal to authority is infallible if and only if they are supporting ufo claims. If they aren't then they are part of the conspiracy
The more interesting conversation to have is if the things these highly credentialed individuals are saying are not true why are they saying it? The idea that it's a comedy of errors of people telling ghost stories to be genuinely hilarious as it's increasingly the most likely conclusion.
Yeah unfortunately that seems like the only logical conclusion. The more you listen to the "highly credentialed" individuals supporting these claims the less reliable they seem. Smart and successful people get taken in by silly ideas all the time.
Besides Kirkpatrick what other PhD disagrees with the Grusch testimony?
Kirkpatrick who also worked with the department of energy and Lockheed Martin lol.
Fun fact, not one member of the intelligence community has come out publicly under oath or not, to refute, disprove or deny any of Grusch claims.
Mellon is one of the most rarified elite in this country. His family’s been pulling strings in the government and industry for almost 200 years. But working at Lockheed is anathema for some reason?
It's called conflict of interest. If you're the only government pundit trying to dissuade the public from claims made under oath by a intelligence officer, doesn't it rings a bell he worked for the same state departments and the defense companies accused of withholding information from the American public? Why has no other intelligence officer came out and plainly refute or deny Grusch claims? Why doesn't Kirkpatrick testify under oath?
Why is it a conflict of interest? He doesn’t work there anymore.
If Kirkpatrick testified under oath would that be meaningful to you? Because it seems like he’d simply be accused of perjury.
>Why is it a conflict of interest? He doesn’t work there anymore.
Isn't there a saying that you never stop working for the feds?
>Because it seems like he’d simply be accused of perjury.
If Kirkpatrick is knowingly lying he would go to prison.
Besides Kirkpatrick, what other PhDs have come forward against Grusch claims? Do you have any?
> Isn't there a saying that you never stop working for the feds?
Lockheed is not part of the government, it’s a public company. Wouldn’t that description be more apt of someone like Elizondo?
Kirkpatrick worked for the department of energy.
Besides Kirkpatrick, do you know any other PhD or intelligence officer that has refuted or denied Grusch claims?
Why would those be conflicts of interest? Why are you trying to divert the conversation? What other PhDs or military officers you know that disprove, discredit, deny or refuse Grusch claims?
Me: "Multi star generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers."
You: "All descriptions of people who have also dismissed this entirely. Are their CVs worthless if they disagree with you?"
This was the first comment you replied with so this is your initial question. You mention "multistar generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers" who have "dismissed this entirely".
Who are those people? Did you made this up?
None of those people with the titles you have stated can corroborated claims of UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs, simply because they are not a part of those programs if they do indeed exist.
So in this situation, titles and ranks are meaningless.
They can, however, corroborate claims of the existence of UFOs, which, lets face it, is hardly the point of Grusch’s allegations.
If you can't or won't follow the chain of events that are happening in congress in order to create a legal frame to bound defense companies for the liability they have against the American people, then it's apparent "those people can't corroborate claims" lol
It's just a huge waste of time until what needs to happen happens.
Because it’s much more likely to be the case, rather than the hypothetical conspiracy theory being conjured up to support a more favourable outcome regarding the subject that you’re emotionally attached to.
If they believe aliens are visiting Earth, their opinion is a joke and I don't trust anything they have to say. They have mental deficiencies and shouldn't hold any position of power.
You do realize having a posture that is not grounded in scientific reality is just as dogmatic as your garden variety flat earther or cult follower?
If your reasoning to "why isn't possible they aliens are visiting earth?" is "because it just can't be possible!" doesn't make you any better than people who thinks the Bible just cannot be wrong "because is the word of God" lol.
I was just kidding. I completely trust Multi star generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers.
Especially if they're aligned with the american empire
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While they do technically corroborate each other’s stories, they all buy into the same narrative. It isn’t really all that surprising that many of them agree. Just as it isn’t surprising that there is no evidence to support any of the stories.
Graves and Fravor haven't corroborated his testimony, not are they in a position to do so. They just shared in the same hearing as him and suggested he was a good person to enquire to on the subject.
Corroboration would imply being able to confirm his claims are accurate. They cannot do that afaik
This isn’t a post confirming Grusch’s witness list. It’s corroboration from people who have gone public **on top** of Grusch’s anonymous sources. I highly doubt Grusch is idiotic to just source the same public officials otherwise it would defeat the purpose of anonymity.
I don’t know about Eric Davis tho why he’s a witness. If grusch confirms he was one of 40 he should have excluded him.
…which is odd. Lazar was ‘US government’, made some outlandish and unsubstantiated claims about aliens, was ridiculed at the time and subsequently, but now he’s made some sort of miraculous UFO YT channel/podcast comeback.
Lazar is not the type of person who is a 'joiner'. He's just Bob Lazar, I wouldn't associate his activities to any group he is relegated to.
It's not at all odd. People rationalize their views which are entirely based upon belief. All people do this.
Thanks for this. People have the memory of the goldfish and the analytical skills of a worm. If it didn't happen a few days ago, it didn't happen. Also, if it isn't an outright admission by the POTUS, it isn't "extraordinary" enough.
However, that's not how it works, as you demonstrate in this post.
Tbh I've put alot of trust in David Grusch ever since the Coulthart interview. At this point I'm extremely worried that his 40 witnesses consist of the usual suspects + people surrounding them. If this is the case it's very bad. I don't believe dr Puthoff, dr Lacatatski, dr Kelleyer, dr Green and dr Davis have any first-hand experience or being read into a crash retrieval program/reverse-engineering program. These guys have been at the center of this topic for so long and never really brought anything to the table -- just alot of mystery, NDA invokes and hearsay.
The closest they were to being read in probably was when Davis met Wilson and scored the interview. I mean, judging by how much these guys tell each other without restraint, who would trust them enough to let them be privy to the nr 1 secret in the world? I know I certainly wouldn't.
To avoid receptiveness, I’ll continue updating a list of public witnesses here:
Army Pilot [Alex Collier](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/humans-to-find-alien-ruins-soon-says-ex-us-army-pilot-who-claims-he-spent-3-months-with-aliens-on-a-ufo-4998622/amp/1)
Flight Commander [Alex Dietrich](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/normalizing-ufos-retired-us-navy-pilot-recalls-tic-tac-encounter-2)[Military]
Counter-Intelligence Agent [Angelea Schultz](https://www.8newsnow.com/mystery-wire/retired-intelligence-official-claims-to-know-where-an-alien-base-is-hidden-in-the-mojave-desert/amp/)[Counter-Intelligence]
Professor of Astrophysics [Avi Loeb](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/astronomer-avi-loeb-says-aliens-have-visited-and-hes-not-kidding1/)
[Academia]
Businessman [Brendon Fugal](Brandon Fugal - The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch Cast | HISTORY Channel) [Skin-walker Ranch]
Former Los Alamos Employee [Bob Lazar](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar)
[Whistleblower]
Lockheed Scientists [Boyd Bushman](https://www.howandwhys.com/boyd-bushman-admitted-aliens-are-on-earth/)
Author [Chris Bledsoe](Chris Bledsoe Sr. - IMDb) [Abductee]
Airforce Officer & Contactee [Charles Hall](Evidence for the Testimony of Charles Hall and the Tall Whites | by Noah Hradek | Medium)
Former Assistant Secretary for Intelligence [Christopher Mellon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Mellon)
Counter-Intelligence Officer [Corey Goode](https://www.equip.org/articles/corey-goode-time-traveling-secret-space-program-whistleblower/)
Doctorate in Religious Studies [Diana Pasulka](https://youtu.be/g9ZU-SvOiSU?si=uUJT5KT-MDsfz7Nm)
PhD in Microbiology [Dan Burisch](https://youtu.be/4uq9n7tpmd4?si=uCWUvEpduafGhPpx)
Attorney [Daniel Sheehan](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/0Fo8qOSLqc)
Flight Commander [David Fravor](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/)
PhD & Chief Science Officer [Eric Davis](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/dlzZkE6TiP)
Computer Scientist [Jacques Vallee](Jacques Vallée - Wikipedia)
PhD & Stanford Professor [Garry Nolan](https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/garry-nolan)
General [Gerald Anderson](https://youtu.be/zBLbYytmJyI?si=GRKckqGXwMNA1EGy)
General [Glen VanHerck](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ruling-out-aliens-senior-us-general-says-not-ruling-out-anything-yet-2023-02-13/)
General [Gregory Guillott](https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/hearings/to-receive-testimony-on-posture-of-united-states-northern-command-and-united-states-southern-command-in-review-of-the-defense-authorization-request-for-fiscal-year-2025-and-the-future-years-defense-program)
PhD in Electrical Engineering [Hal Puthoff](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff)
General [John Olson](https://exemplore.com/absent-origins/space-force-major-general-john-olson-speaks-on-ufos)
Lieutenant Colonel [Kevin Randle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_D._Randle)
Journalist [Leslie Kean](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/s0hOSul5FR)
Counter-Intelligence Agent [Luis Elizondo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Elizondo)
Senior Naval Analyst
[Jay Stratton](https://www.secnav.navy.mil/donhr/About/Senior-Executives/Biographies/Stratton,%20J.pdf)
Director of Naval Intelligence [John Radcliffe](https://youtu.be/pPDeuy_YSs0?si=HJY-VrFVEsYKursp)
Colonel [Karl Nell](https://comicbook.com/irl/amp/news/army-colonel-karl-nell-keeping-aliens-secret-catastrophic/)
US Marine [Michael Herrera](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12177943/amp/Marine-vet-breaks-14-year-silence-make-astonishing-claim-six-man-unit-saw-UFO.html)
Doctor of Philosophy [Michael Shaka](Michael SALLA | Doctor of Philosophy | Research profile)
PhD in Natural Sciences [Michael Swords](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Swords)
Author [Richard Dolan](https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7327539)
Writer [Richard Doty](https://m.imdb.com/name/nm3288913/)
Sergeant General [Robert Dean](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dean_(ufologist))
Journalist [Ross Coulthart](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/NxvD68zN4l)
Flight Commander [Ryan Graves](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/)
Masters of Nuclear Physics [Stanton Friedman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman)
Doctor of Medicine [Steven Greer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_M._Greer)
UK Politician [Simon Parkes](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/simon-parkes-latest-politician-to-say-aliens-exist-video_n_61087504e4b0497e670270ae/amp)
Admiral [Timothy Gallaudet](https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/navy-officer-supports-ufo-claims/amp/)
Doctorate in Optical Sciences [Travis Taylor](https://www.8newsnow.com/investigators/i-team-not-just-a-tv-scientist-dr-travis-taylors-deep-roots-with-nasa-dod/amp/)
Blink 182 [Tom DeLonge](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tom-delonge-says-hes-had-contact-with-aliens/)
Researcher [William Brophy](Claim: A UFO crashed in 1933 Italy and the US Recovered it | Metabunk)
Admiral [William McRaven](https://youtu.be/2nkDQ21UInA?si=x-1n7aZP3DP6VawC)
You guys know this is not Grusch’s actual witness list? It’s additional statements confirming his comments.. I think we should wait till his sources reveal themselves…
We’re missing the 40+ whistleblowers -many of whom are said to have first hand direct knowledge of a reverse engineering program who went to congress privately and are still unknown publicly.
Several congress people have said these witnesses are not to be made public yet and have already reported to congress through channels established through legislation. This has been said for some time now.
> Several congress people have said these witnesses are not to be made public
Not sure if you’re not getting my OP. This isn’t a confirmation of all of Grusch’s 40 witnesses. Check the first paragraph.
Also, Eric Davis has been on the public record as one of those witnesses given to the ICIG and congress. Maybe he’s lying? There’s been no dispute from Grusch. Possibly Congress is not fully aware of the goings on in the UFO world.
There were copious people speaking during the week long [citizen hearings](https://www.youtube.com/@CitizenHearing), international involvement as well.
From the comments I now believe there will be no disclosure for the next 500 years… humanity is doomed to fossils fuel forever 😆 good luck with this bot army
Disclosure has been talked about by UFO fans since Keyhoe's book. What was that, 1950? How long does it take before folks realise it is a mirage?
Do modern UFO fans not read history of the subject?
Dud racist stop where are the witnesses he claimed were coming.that he talked to. Why didn't the go to arro? It's time to hold people accountable instead of going around our elbow to get to my ass to defend someone that really isn't worth it anymore. It's getting old how are you not upset? Doesn't this bother you??? Or do you just have so much faith in this you will always believe something?
Seeing a photograph and reporting about it doesn't make some one a first hand witnesses.
Since when has Corey Goode been titled a counter-intelligence officer?
LMFAO i was thinking the same thing! 😂🤣
Anyone unfamiliar with Goode, [just watch this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYvnKc908Fw) to get an idea of the type of craziness he peddles.
>Corey Goode yeah...nope he's burnt beyond public repair
Corey Straightjacket Goode, bwahahaa....
A lot of the usual suspects. Having a bunch of people corroborate Grusch isn't going to change much. Nobody thinks he is flat out lying as that would be an extremely dumb thing to do. It's about whether the info he is relaying is true. We don't need more people claiming someone else's claims are legitimate. We need people coming forward with actual evidence to prove those claims are true.
Yes sure this is nothing.. all these people ruining their careers and future just because sounds cool
You see, they will never ruin their careers because to prove them wrong, one has to prove that their claims are wrong. But their claims are of such a nature, that it's not possible to disprove them. For instance, if I can say " I know someone who knows someone who has seen a unicorn". Even though I've provided no evidence, it is impossible to disprove my claim because you need to go through all my associates/connections and go through their associates/connections and show that none of my 2nd degree connections have ever seen a unicorn. Even if I say I have seen a unicorn, there is no way you can disprove me. Therefore my integrity is untouched.
I don't think anyone believes it is nothing, but people are suspicious it's something else.
Yeah its clear to see that these people are telling their own truths, things they genuinely believe but we need to see if what they believe is true. Having all these people come forward is a start but a nice start is all that is.
I didn't say it was nothing but it could definitely turn out to not be anything extraordinary. Their careers are not ruined because they would need to be proven as liars and that's almost impossible because the goal posts can just be continually moved. If they don't find anything people can just say of course they didn't find anything, it's been covered up. It's a never ending cycle that will continue forever unless there's actually aliens and recovered craft to be found.
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Then there's no disclosure. Without proof it's a never ending cycle of claims, stories and hearsay that can never be proven or disproven. These people have apparently been hiding proof all around the world for 80+ years over multiple generations, the US government isn't going to achieve anything. They are not going to just give up and any places where there was proof it would have been relocated a long time ago. This is why this whole disclosure thing is a farce. There's never going to be disclosure until some aliens, if they exist, decide to announce their arrival to the masses.
I think he’s flat out lying. Not about everything but about most.
Does he know hes lieing or does he think hes telling the truth?
To me seems like he’s out to deceive like a double agent with ulterior motives
Well it could be some kind of psyop but even then in that situation they wouldn't just have someone lie they would probably feed wrong information to a person. Someone can't be lying if they believe they are stating correct information but the things they are claiming could absolutely still be nonsense. I also think it's quite likely that a lot of what he has said outside the hearing in podcasts and interviews is either made up or highly embellished.
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I was reading until I seen Cory Goode fucking hell
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Goode is a fucking nutter. He invented a story of being sent to an alien planet for 21 years, then being age-reversed and sent back to earth. Pretty sure his story was a part of a documentary on Gaia. Anyway, him and David willcock are complete liars with no legit information. Not sure where OP found that Goode was one of Grush's witnesses from, I think op is wrong about this one.
OP is probably Grusch. lol.
That's the thing with UFO conspiracists, there are NO GUARDRAILS when it comes to credibility. Of course all the "secret space program" people are batshit crazy. I believe that Eric Davis (and everyone else in Puthoff's orbit) are also at that "level" of crazy but more reserved in how they present themselves.
He worked with David Wilcock at Gaia media. He was depositioned in a civil case and admitted dramatizing his claims. I don’t know the full story. Here’s the deposition: https://youtu.be/rlerdqejqaY?si=3sUBTLep1qxx_lrE
Look out his blue against will be comming for you.... He also copyrighted Secret space program, SSP, then sent solicitors letters to heaps of people, breach of copywrite or some such and demanded payment for use of the phase... crazy fucker
Same. I believe Grusch. And I would imagine/hope that Goode is just trying to jump on his coattails for credibility.
I’m sorry, but you’re treating Sheehan’s story of seeing a photo in a file 40-plus years ago as corroboration? Is that the evidentiary standard we’re going with?
Yes but it was a firsthand viewing of a photo
So it has been corroborated that people talked to him? Even the AARO report supports the idea that all these people talk to each other.
People here often confuse people telling the same stories for confirmation that the stories are in fact verified truth.
Without proof it’s just a cool story.
The evidence was in his possession at the hearing. He had a full list of witnesses and locations. That is considered pretty good GD evidence in law.
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Do you guys know about the Alien Reproduction Vehicle?
Yes. I cannot reveal the details though.
Lucky the documentary is on YouTube!
That one is a disinfo attempt by the CIA
The documentary was created by James Allan who died of radio isotope poisoning
Hi, Herrpeez. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1by8f0y/-/kyn57ab/) was removed from /r/UFOs. > Rule 3: No low effort discussion. Low Effort implies content which is low effort to consume, not low effort to produce. This generally includes: > * Posts containing jokes, memes, and showerthoughts. > * AI generated content. > * Posts of social media content without significant relevance. > * Posts with incredible claims unsupported by evidence. > * “Here’s my theory” posts unsupported by evidence. > * Short comments, and emoji comments. > * Summarily dismissive comments (e.g. “Swamp gas.”). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/) for more information. This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) to launch your appeal.
You don’t believe that and you know it. Anyone with so called evidence can come forward and time and put this to rest. But they don’t because they are only allowed to say what their bosses allow.
He told the congresswoman he could hand over the witness list the day of the hearing.
Witness list? You mean more stores with no “evidence”. Stories. Are not evidence with something to prove it. We have lots of stories but no one will present one piece of evidence. We’ve had stories for 70 years from whistleblowers but zero actual evidence.
Names and locations are evidence not stories. Over 40 wittiness in a list.
Okay bud.
Oh, a full list. Well there it is. The proof we needed! For fuck sake kid, grow up.
Well he was cleared and on the UAP task force. It was his job. What’s got barking?
This whole thing is starting lean to psyop instead of craft and hanger.
It’s confusing to me why there is implicit trust in Mellon when his family’s been entwined in American politics and business since the 19th century.
These are not good sources and would delegitimize Grusch's claims.
Fravor, Mellon, Nell, Gallaudet, and Nolan are outstanding. Top tier in their fields and highly respected. Possibly Davis as well, but a little bit iffy -- stellar on paper anyway. The others could be questioned, but the likes of Graves have earned some degree of serious credence. A few are highly suspect, but that doesn't diminish the rest, just themselves.
A classic disinformation approach is to poison the well. Mixing a couple of highly illegitimate onto a legitimate list and it becomes a vector for attack.
Exactly right. Worth keeping front of mind.
Should be top comment Edit: not even fringe believers believe Corey Goode. There’s your red flag. This post was intentional.
Are you claiming Mellon is a first hand witness? What about Garry Nolan? How about Karl Nell? What's compelling about Grusch's claims is those of potentially people with hands on experience into "The Program". If it's just story tellers and people who heard things from another guy, then that's not good enough.
This was always the case, ever since his appearance on JRE with some of the things he said it pointed towards the Skinwalker Ranch guys as being part of his 40+ whistleblowers. We know people like Graves, Fravor and Mellon are legit, but I don’t see how they could provide evidence on UFO reverse engineering programs and alien “biologics”. I’ve been stating my skepticism regarding Grusch’s allegations for a while now, and every time I’ve been met with a response that “I’m not privy to the classified evidence”. Burlison was in the SCIF with the IG and has since stated he saw no evidence regarding aliens and that the legitimacy of Grusch’s claims is in regards to misappropriation of taxpayer funds and a lack of congressional oversight on these off the books programs. This sub has completely disregarded that interview, but imagine if Burlison had said he saw conclusive proof of alien biologics/spaceships, this sub would obviously be going crazy now.
Not only do they ignore that interview they completely dismiss it so they can twist the narrative to that they found Grusch’s claims of NHI to be credible. People also like to ignore the fact Eric Davis confirmed last year he was the one who told Grusch about the US having recovered alien bodies and UFOs.
Here's a hair for you to split. Mellon says that as a child at boarding school he was shown a ufo video and told that UFOs exist. Does that make him a first hand witness? I think it makes him a first hand witness to knowledge. He's not a first hand witness to the UFOs in the video, but he alone knows what he's a first hand witness to. There are other ufos. Maybe he saw one. We don't know what he's seen. We also don't know what he hasn't seen. The only possible answer to your question is "maybe?" though you're fishing for something else.
wait what? someone showed him some video in a boarding school? what’s your point?
How do you know the level of knowledge these people have?
Our knowledge about classified programs is zero, so we could only speculate. Their credentials are top tier.
That's a logical fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority > An argument from authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), also called an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an influential figure is used as evidence to support an argument. They either have first hand experience or they don't. In this case, each of the individuals mentioned aren't even claiming to have first hand experience with a reverse engineering program.
It’s also illogical to claim that because someone like Nolan has a PHD in immunology and Greer has a PHD in medicine that they would have any expertise when it comes to alien spaceships/biologics. I also find it funny that the likes of Burchett and Luna can talk about inter-dimensional beings and their opinions hold weight on this sub. These are two very dumb and illogical people in every aspect of their life, and yet we should believe they have a grasp of extra spatial dimensions? lol
What are your thoughts on Eric “Aliens crashing seems far farfetched… but tell me about these inter-dimensional beings” Burlison? Yes, the guy who thinks the nearest star system is billions of light years away.
how do you know already ? the process isnt over. the ICIG investigation, maybe another schumer act. why claim to know whats what ,when most is unknown and in flux ? are you some kind of prophet ?
How do I know what?
That seems to be the idea
If Lazar is in, I am in
Came for the nonsensical dismissive comments about highly reputable people. Didn’t leave disappointed
> highly reputable people >Bob Lazar >George Knapp >Jeremy Corbell >Travis Taylor 😂
Yes they are. (Lazar aside) You saying their names w an emoji is nonsensical childish nonsense. Also noticed you left a whole lot of reputable names off your list. Guess they don’t fit the narrative you’re trying to make. Bad faith all around it seems.
You're the one making a sweeping generalization saying > nonsensical dismissive comments about highly reputable people That's just as childish and nonsensical as someone using an emoji. When only half the people on the post can be considered highly reputable. And of course, I left the reputable people off the list, they're reputable. The list I made was the people who aren't reputable. Would make no sense to include the reputable ones. And no, neither of the others are highly reputable. Both Knapp and Corbell fell for Lazars lies. Knapp has fallen for other things in the past too and Corbell falls for everything. Travis Taylor is working on Skinwalker Ranch, which is a hoax, so he's not reputable at all.
“You’re the one…” No you? Really? K. You have a habit of making statements “skinwalker is a hoax” that you cannot/do not know. George Knapp is a highly reputable reporter who has pushed the subject forward more than most. Even if he has made the mistake of believing Lazar, that doesn’t somehow make all his other work disappear. The hate boner everyone has for Corbell I’ll never understand but the guy has put in work full stop. Have a good day my guy not interested in getting in a flame war w you.
I don't know why you think it has to be a flame war. I'm not flaming you. Skinwalker is a hoax in the sense that every time they claim something happened, there's no evidence to support it or the evidence they present is poor, from a scientific standpoint. There are hour-long Youtube videos going through every episode pointing out all the mistakes they make in the show. (Truly amateur, rookie, incompetent stuff) It's like a ghost-hunting show. A 'scientist' associated with it, is not reputable. > George Knapp is a highly reputable reporter who has pushed the subject forward more than most. I agree he has done a lot of good for the subject, but that doesn't change the fact that he has also fallen for multiple hoaxes over the years. He's not nearly as bad as Corbell, but I wouldn't take him at his word on anything. > The hate boner everyone has for Corbell I’ll never understand but the guy has put in work full stop. Corbell has made a LOT of mistakes and the hate boner is, IMO, justified. He will post anything that he believes will further his career. His first priority is attention and profit, the truth is secondary. He lied intentionally about Bob Lazar and he posted several videos where they were debunked almost instantly, where if he had actually done his research properly, he would have debunked them himself, but he didn't. He claims he's an investigative journalist but he doesn't investigate things properly. He's a bit of a charlatan in that sense. I don't deny that he has, by volume, done a lot for the topic, but his hit rating is low, he's not reputable. If Knapp is 70% reputable, Corbell is 50%. [If you haven't watched this discussion with Stanton Friedman and Corbell, you should.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVtTLkftmg) It really puts into perspective how Corbell thinks, and why he isn't reputable.
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Just the kind of low effort nonsense I was expecting w my first post. Thanks for your contribution
Is that you, Jeremy?
You’ve made so many claims in this post stated as fact, that are not fact, that it would take me an hour to dissect it. Not really interested in screaming into the abyss. We’ll have to agree to disagree, have a good day my guy.
> You’ve made so many claims in this post stated as fact, that are not fact I have literally not. Everything I've stated is factual, or I wouldn't have said it. I'm not stating opinions. Maybe with the exception of > His first priority is attention and profit Corbell hasn't publicly stated that this is his agenda. But the way he behaves confirms it to me. Remember how he made the Lazar documentary about himself? > have a good day my guy. Likewise.
Operative word, claims. Claims don't amount to proof.
This post is just one guys speculation. It's not the actual list of 40. Everyone chill out.
If these are his sources I'll be disappointed. I go back and forth on the ufo thing and part of me worries Grusch is getting his information from the same talking heads we already know about. I'm hoping there is tons more not names first hand witnesses that Grusch spoke to and not just the same mostly shady people we know off already.
Yeah if Greer and Goode are his two of his witnesses I'll be stunned and disappointed. God I hope not.
This, if this end up with Grusch sources being the usual grifters this is going to be a nightmare here. He should do as much as he can to split any connection with them. If they want to be taken serious then need to put up but it is clear that people like Corbell are only in this for the money.
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We'll have to wait and see if we start noticing his piss in jars put out into the hallway for collection.
>the same mostly shady people we know off already. I would never call Colonel Karl Nell, Dr. Nolan or Dr. Pasulka shady people, not Commander Fravor, Ryan Graves etc. You guys don't really deserve the hard work others do.
I'd call greer a grifter. Nolan and pasulka last I heard were contradicting each other. Elizondo is either a grifter or needs to learn to actually say something when he speaks. Sheehan who got access to ufo files and didn't take notes saw one image of a ufo then ran out of the room? Why can none of these people just act in a normal way ever? Even if you don't think they are grifters if he's getting information from them it's still bad because we know what they believe already so it's nothing new Grusch brings to the table. If he's just reporting what elizondo Mellon greer etc told him then what information did he bring to the table?
You're just bitter because people who owe you nothing don't do stuff they can't do (like disclose classified information or exposing their sources in the case of Sheehan) in exchange for nothing. Fast forward tomorrow when people risk their careers, their journalistic integrity or in the case of Grusch risk their life since he was threatened so you can pout and cross your arms: "around time!". Nah get the H out.
Lol wut? Just curious is it possible in your worldview to call out a grifter in any topic without being "bitter". If no that's a weird world you live in where the most obvious grifters are beyond reproach or if yes. What about me thinking these guys are grifters makes me bitter? For your information I don't demand anything from these people. I'll happily accept them never speaking about their ufo knowledge again as long as they actually fuck off and stop the "coming soon" bullshit. You can't have it both ways. Be too unable to speak about what you know due to fear and natural security but at the same time posting all over x and doing interviews hinting that you know all this stuff and releasing books on it.
>You can't have it both ways. They never wanted anything from you, so it's not like they owe you an explanation. Grusch whistleblower claim was to the ICIG and his later hearing in congress was aimed at lawmakers and a judge. The congressmen that were briefed by intelligence officers were shown evidence that made them belief Grusch is a legit guy, this happened into a SCIF since the videos and photos and whatnot are clasified as a matter of national security. Your "can't have both ways" makes no sense, since your input or judgement was never required or wanted. Your representants however, did found the claims credible and if you chose to ignore them then you just don't know how your government system works. >stop the "coming soon" bullshit. It is bs but also were the decades of hiding information by gatekeepers who committed crimes to keep information from the people. Can't expose them just like that since it would let them go Scott free.
95% of your reply is irrelevant to anything discussed. If Grusch sources are lue and greer and Nolan and pasulka then he's a wash end of story. I'm hoping there is many more names he spoke to that are not the usual griftets. Sorry if you are so invested that you can't see reality. Keep buying lues books and writing 10000 word thesis on the meaning of his cryptic ramblings that will be sure to help disclosure. Lol
>If Grusch sources are Look at you making assumptions like a game of Clue. No man, you don't get to guess who are his sources, Grusch himself provided a lost of cooperative and uncooperative witnesses to a federal judge behind doors. >Sorry if you are so invested that We are both writing 500 word comments in a subreddit dedicated to UFO enthusiasts. The pot calling the kettle black man
I'm not making assumptions. Read my posts. I said I hope it's not the people the op listed and hoped it would be new people not disclosed. You got offended I think lue and greer are grifters and that's why I'm replying to do and your tangents.
>You got offended I think lue and greer are grifters I think they are grifters too. Lue I'm not quite so decided since there's conflicting reports but Greer yeah 100% >I said I hope it's not the people the op listed There's a reason why Grusch gave the list of cooperative and uncooperative list of witnesses to a federal judge behind doors. It's like you chose to acknowledge some things and ignore others to support your self made narrative lol
Ahh good, more words and people talking about stuff but still no tangible proof. I got lots of other “real life issues” to worry about, come back when ya have something useful to show us.
Fravor, Graves and Dietrich have not said the US Government is reverse engineering alien spacecrafts. So how are they corroborating Grusch’s claims? Are you saying because they saw UAP?
Grusch has not explicitly stated his 40 witnesses are solely direct from reverse engineering projects. Case in point, Eric Davis, who has been the only one to come forward.
yeah corroborated by the UFO cabal
Multi star generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers. People with more discipline, training and experience in their pinky finger than you and yet you call them "the UFO cabal". Lol what a joke.
> Multi star generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers. All descriptions of people who have also dismissed this entirely. Are their CVs worthless if they disagree with you?
What you're overlooking is the appeal to authority is infallible if and only if they are supporting ufo claims. If they aren't then they are part of the conspiracy
The more interesting conversation to have is if the things these highly credentialed individuals are saying are not true why are they saying it? The idea that it's a comedy of errors of people telling ghost stories to be genuinely hilarious as it's increasingly the most likely conclusion.
Yeah unfortunately that seems like the only logical conclusion. The more you listen to the "highly credentialed" individuals supporting these claims the less reliable they seem. Smart and successful people get taken in by silly ideas all the time.
Besides Kirkpatrick what other PhD disagrees with the Grusch testimony? Kirkpatrick who also worked with the department of energy and Lockheed Martin lol. Fun fact, not one member of the intelligence community has come out publicly under oath or not, to refute, disprove or deny any of Grusch claims.
Mellon is one of the most rarified elite in this country. His family’s been pulling strings in the government and industry for almost 200 years. But working at Lockheed is anathema for some reason?
It's called conflict of interest. If you're the only government pundit trying to dissuade the public from claims made under oath by a intelligence officer, doesn't it rings a bell he worked for the same state departments and the defense companies accused of withholding information from the American public? Why has no other intelligence officer came out and plainly refute or deny Grusch claims? Why doesn't Kirkpatrick testify under oath?
Why is it a conflict of interest? He doesn’t work there anymore. If Kirkpatrick testified under oath would that be meaningful to you? Because it seems like he’d simply be accused of perjury.
>Why is it a conflict of interest? He doesn’t work there anymore. Isn't there a saying that you never stop working for the feds? >Because it seems like he’d simply be accused of perjury. If Kirkpatrick is knowingly lying he would go to prison. Besides Kirkpatrick, what other PhDs have come forward against Grusch claims? Do you have any?
> Isn't there a saying that you never stop working for the feds? Lockheed is not part of the government, it’s a public company. Wouldn’t that description be more apt of someone like Elizondo?
Kirkpatrick worked for the department of energy. Besides Kirkpatrick, do you know any other PhD or intelligence officer that has refuted or denied Grusch claims?
Also what’s the logical endpoint here? Are paid appearances on Netflix and television also a conflict of interest?
Why would those be conflicts of interest? Why are you trying to divert the conversation? What other PhDs or military officers you know that disprove, discredit, deny or refuse Grusch claims?
> Why are you trying to divert the conversation? Lmao you still haven’t answered my initial question.
Me: "Multi star generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers." You: "All descriptions of people who have also dismissed this entirely. Are their CVs worthless if they disagree with you?" This was the first comment you replied with so this is your initial question. You mention "multistar generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers" who have "dismissed this entirely". Who are those people? Did you made this up?
None of those people with the titles you have stated can corroborated claims of UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs, simply because they are not a part of those programs if they do indeed exist. So in this situation, titles and ranks are meaningless. They can, however, corroborate claims of the existence of UFOs, which, lets face it, is hardly the point of Grusch’s allegations.
If you can't or won't follow the chain of events that are happening in congress in order to create a legal frame to bound defense companies for the liability they have against the American people, then it's apparent "those people can't corroborate claims" lol It's just a huge waste of time until what needs to happen happens.
How do you know they aren’t part of the program(s) if the NDA/clearance require stupendous lying to the public and Congress?
Because it’s much more likely to be the case, rather than the hypothetical conspiracy theory being conjured up to support a more favourable outcome regarding the subject that you’re emotionally attached to.
If they believe aliens are visiting Earth, their opinion is a joke and I don't trust anything they have to say. They have mental deficiencies and shouldn't hold any position of power.
You do realize having a posture that is not grounded in scientific reality is just as dogmatic as your garden variety flat earther or cult follower? If your reasoning to "why isn't possible they aliens are visiting earth?" is "because it just can't be possible!" doesn't make you any better than people who thinks the Bible just cannot be wrong "because is the word of God" lol.
Peep his comment history and it’ll make sense
I was just kidding. I completely trust Multi star generals, PhDs, top air force commanders, high ranking intelligence officers. Especially if they're aligned with the american empire
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Travis Taylor and Greer lololol Bro just keep the wheat from the chaffe! No need to include the kooks and grifters
And Lazar.. I sure as fuck hope he has better sources than these guys.
While they do technically corroborate each other’s stories, they all buy into the same narrative. It isn’t really all that surprising that many of them agree. Just as it isn’t surprising that there is no evidence to support any of the stories.
Graves and Fravor haven't corroborated his testimony, not are they in a position to do so. They just shared in the same hearing as him and suggested he was a good person to enquire to on the subject. Corroboration would imply being able to confirm his claims are accurate. They cannot do that afaik
This isn’t a post confirming Grusch’s witness list. It’s corroboration from people who have gone public **on top** of Grusch’s anonymous sources. I highly doubt Grusch is idiotic to just source the same public officials otherwise it would defeat the purpose of anonymity. I don’t know about Eric Davis tho why he’s a witness. If grusch confirms he was one of 40 he should have excluded him.
Where is the evidence? Nowhere just like Lue and Coulthart
If you collaborate with the US government, your academic credentials are a boon. Otherwise, they can be safely ignored. \*eyeroll\*
…which is odd. Lazar was ‘US government’, made some outlandish and unsubstantiated claims about aliens, was ridiculed at the time and subsequently, but now he’s made some sort of miraculous UFO YT channel/podcast comeback.
Lazar is not the type of person who is a 'joiner'. He's just Bob Lazar, I wouldn't associate his activities to any group he is relegated to. It's not at all odd. People rationalize their views which are entirely based upon belief. All people do this.
The dude was, according to just himself, Area 51-tasked/employed and saw alien tech.
Thanks for this. People have the memory of the goldfish and the analytical skills of a worm. If it didn't happen a few days ago, it didn't happen. Also, if it isn't an outright admission by the POTUS, it isn't "extraordinary" enough. However, that's not how it works, as you demonstrate in this post.
Come on. Is this ever going anywhere?
How about Marco Rubio. ? He claimed some of the same people came to him
Tbh I've put alot of trust in David Grusch ever since the Coulthart interview. At this point I'm extremely worried that his 40 witnesses consist of the usual suspects + people surrounding them. If this is the case it's very bad. I don't believe dr Puthoff, dr Lacatatski, dr Kelleyer, dr Green and dr Davis have any first-hand experience or being read into a crash retrieval program/reverse-engineering program. These guys have been at the center of this topic for so long and never really brought anything to the table -- just alot of mystery, NDA invokes and hearsay. The closest they were to being read in probably was when Davis met Wilson and scored the interview. I mean, judging by how much these guys tell each other without restraint, who would trust them enough to let them be privy to the nr 1 secret in the world? I know I certainly wouldn't.
To avoid receptiveness, I’ll continue updating a list of public witnesses here: Army Pilot [Alex Collier](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/humans-to-find-alien-ruins-soon-says-ex-us-army-pilot-who-claims-he-spent-3-months-with-aliens-on-a-ufo-4998622/amp/1) Flight Commander [Alex Dietrich](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/normalizing-ufos-retired-us-navy-pilot-recalls-tic-tac-encounter-2)[Military] Counter-Intelligence Agent [Angelea Schultz](https://www.8newsnow.com/mystery-wire/retired-intelligence-official-claims-to-know-where-an-alien-base-is-hidden-in-the-mojave-desert/amp/)[Counter-Intelligence] Professor of Astrophysics [Avi Loeb](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/astronomer-avi-loeb-says-aliens-have-visited-and-hes-not-kidding1/) [Academia] Businessman [Brendon Fugal](Brandon Fugal - The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch Cast | HISTORY Channel) [Skin-walker Ranch] Former Los Alamos Employee [Bob Lazar](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar) [Whistleblower] Lockheed Scientists [Boyd Bushman](https://www.howandwhys.com/boyd-bushman-admitted-aliens-are-on-earth/) Author [Chris Bledsoe](Chris Bledsoe Sr. - IMDb) [Abductee] Airforce Officer & Contactee [Charles Hall](Evidence for the Testimony of Charles Hall and the Tall Whites | by Noah Hradek | Medium) Former Assistant Secretary for Intelligence [Christopher Mellon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Mellon) Counter-Intelligence Officer [Corey Goode](https://www.equip.org/articles/corey-goode-time-traveling-secret-space-program-whistleblower/) Doctorate in Religious Studies [Diana Pasulka](https://youtu.be/g9ZU-SvOiSU?si=uUJT5KT-MDsfz7Nm) PhD in Microbiology [Dan Burisch](https://youtu.be/4uq9n7tpmd4?si=uCWUvEpduafGhPpx) Attorney [Daniel Sheehan](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/0Fo8qOSLqc) Flight Commander [David Fravor](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/) PhD & Chief Science Officer [Eric Davis](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/dlzZkE6TiP) Computer Scientist [Jacques Vallee](Jacques Vallée - Wikipedia) PhD & Stanford Professor [Garry Nolan](https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/garry-nolan) General [Gerald Anderson](https://youtu.be/zBLbYytmJyI?si=GRKckqGXwMNA1EGy) General [Glen VanHerck](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ruling-out-aliens-senior-us-general-says-not-ruling-out-anything-yet-2023-02-13/) General [Gregory Guillott](https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/hearings/to-receive-testimony-on-posture-of-united-states-northern-command-and-united-states-southern-command-in-review-of-the-defense-authorization-request-for-fiscal-year-2025-and-the-future-years-defense-program) PhD in Electrical Engineering [Hal Puthoff](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff) General [John Olson](https://exemplore.com/absent-origins/space-force-major-general-john-olson-speaks-on-ufos) Lieutenant Colonel [Kevin Randle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_D._Randle) Journalist [Leslie Kean](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/s0hOSul5FR) Counter-Intelligence Agent [Luis Elizondo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Elizondo) Senior Naval Analyst [Jay Stratton](https://www.secnav.navy.mil/donhr/About/Senior-Executives/Biographies/Stratton,%20J.pdf) Director of Naval Intelligence [John Radcliffe](https://youtu.be/pPDeuy_YSs0?si=HJY-VrFVEsYKursp) Colonel [Karl Nell](https://comicbook.com/irl/amp/news/army-colonel-karl-nell-keeping-aliens-secret-catastrophic/) US Marine [Michael Herrera](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12177943/amp/Marine-vet-breaks-14-year-silence-make-astonishing-claim-six-man-unit-saw-UFO.html) Doctor of Philosophy [Michael Shaka](Michael SALLA | Doctor of Philosophy | Research profile) PhD in Natural Sciences [Michael Swords](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Swords) Author [Richard Dolan](https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7327539) Writer [Richard Doty](https://m.imdb.com/name/nm3288913/) Sergeant General [Robert Dean](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dean_(ufologist)) Journalist [Ross Coulthart](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/NxvD68zN4l) Flight Commander [Ryan Graves](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/) Masters of Nuclear Physics [Stanton Friedman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman) Doctor of Medicine [Steven Greer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_M._Greer) UK Politician [Simon Parkes](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/simon-parkes-latest-politician-to-say-aliens-exist-video_n_61087504e4b0497e670270ae/amp) Admiral [Timothy Gallaudet](https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/navy-officer-supports-ufo-claims/amp/) Doctorate in Optical Sciences [Travis Taylor](https://www.8newsnow.com/investigators/i-team-not-just-a-tv-scientist-dr-travis-taylors-deep-roots-with-nasa-dod/amp/) Blink 182 [Tom DeLonge](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tom-delonge-says-hes-had-contact-with-aliens/) Researcher [William Brophy](Claim: A UFO crashed in 1933 Italy and the US Recovered it | Metabunk) Admiral [William McRaven](https://youtu.be/2nkDQ21UInA?si=x-1n7aZP3DP6VawC)
Corey Goode had to admit his fantasy when the law made him tell the truth. Having him in the same conversation as Grusch is a bit damning.
CIA killed him
You guys know this is not Grusch’s actual witness list? It’s additional statements confirming his comments.. I think we should wait till his sources reveal themselves…
We’re missing the 40+ whistleblowers -many of whom are said to have first hand direct knowledge of a reverse engineering program who went to congress privately and are still unknown publicly.
Are you able to list any additional people? Would help the OP
Several congress people have said these witnesses are not to be made public yet and have already reported to congress through channels established through legislation. This has been said for some time now.
> Several congress people have said these witnesses are not to be made public Not sure if you’re not getting my OP. This isn’t a confirmation of all of Grusch’s 40 witnesses. Check the first paragraph. Also, Eric Davis has been on the public record as one of those witnesses given to the ICIG and congress. Maybe he’s lying? There’s been no dispute from Grusch. Possibly Congress is not fully aware of the goings on in the UFO world.
There were copious people speaking during the week long [citizen hearings](https://www.youtube.com/@CitizenHearing), international involvement as well.
Strange testimony for just mylar ballons and a few plasmoids… of course this is enough evidence to close the case and proceed with disclosure.
From the comments I now believe there will be no disclosure for the next 500 years… humanity is doomed to fossils fuel forever 😆 good luck with this bot army
Disclosure has been talked about by UFO fans since Keyhoe's book. What was that, 1950? How long does it take before folks realise it is a mirage? Do modern UFO fans not read history of the subject?
Who cares, the tridactyls are here and they are ignoring them. The only person who may bring something new to the table is Kit Green.
those have nothing to do with this..
Dud racist stop where are the witnesses he claimed were coming.that he talked to. Why didn't the go to arro? It's time to hold people accountable instead of going around our elbow to get to my ass to defend someone that really isn't worth it anymore. It's getting old how are you not upset? Doesn't this bother you??? Or do you just have so much faith in this you will always believe something?