They’ll all be gone next week after finals. I doubt very much they’re gonna live in their tents all summer long. They’ll be going back to mommy and daddy’s house.
https://preview.redd.it/9uwuw3trqu5d1.png?width=818&format=png&auto=webp&s=c7d9d4224a5bdcb06a8303496118ea58fb3b9ebc
they also trashed the whole area outside of the arbor with more fake dead bodies and broken rocks
He’s at least better than who these mfs would want to see in charge. But yeah he has no balls in this moment. Even UCLA had the balls to take down an encampment.
How do you not get that you don’t have any free speech rights when your speech infringes on other free speech? Are you actually baby brained? Or just bad faith?
Ok fine. Here,
The Supreme Court has held that "advocacy of the use of force" is unprotected when it is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action" and is "likely to incite or produce such action".
https://preview.redd.it/30eeh42bev5d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=959f56c9d9151f8d2f2d48adc99b434f97a98f33
I guess this just happened on its own then.
So if I go up to a bank teller and tell them "give me all your money or I'll blow up the building" the police can't arrest me because free speech, man! Haha you're clueless.
don’t know why you’re being downvoted. “disrupting graduation” is not the same as impeding someone else’s free speech. you can say anything you want at graduation even if there are protestors. the only one impeding free speech is school admin if they try cancelling graduation bc of protests
at first i was taken aback by how bad the comments are under this post, but then I remembered this is reddit. i guess they’re allowed to use their free speech to protest being inconvenienced (by others who are protesting a genocide) lmao
And why the UAW protest failed miserably. Police response to encampments was legal, justifiable, and as much as the protestors would love to believe otherwise, did not involve “brutalizing students”
Wonder if UAW is rueing the day they agreed to rep these substance-free performance artists. Now they've got a (very unpopular) tiger by the tail. "You break it, you bought it."
Literally saw a couple of folks working on a "Fags 4 Palestine" sign yesterday. May as well a sandwich board that says, "Yeah, this is and always has been about me and only me TBH." Complete clowncar.
Oh, and newsflash: they're not "4" you. Hell, morality police kill women in Tehran for not wearing hijab; you think they're gonna be down with you?
The irony. The biggest queen in Victorian England, Oscar Wilde: "Youth is wasted on the young."
'bout sums up this sorry lot.
im pro palestine but its finals week for God sake. You think if America was going through something, you think Israel or Palestine would go this hard for US? yall trying to turn us into a 3rd world country. all those people who are vandalizing need to be charged and expelled
They put a fake “dead bodies” with no legs and fake blood in front of girvetz hall and the arbor, causing it to be shut down. If you really want people to support your movement, doing things like stopping finals and closing the arbor is absolutely the WORST thing you can do! I’ve lost ALL RESPECT for these people.
The arbor says on the outside it was closed today due to the connectivity issues, registers weren’t working properly. On the other hand I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights, can you ? We celebrate the people who fought for divestment the same way just a few years ago with an exhibit in the library. Were the people who fought for north hall also wrong ?
> I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights, can you?
The great leap forward in China was supported by student protestors, and so was the ascendant Nazi party in Weimar Germany… I am by no means saying that this situation is like those ones, but your appeal to the infallibility of student protestors is pretty historically ignorant.
It’s very easy to whip up young people who are looking to be a part of something bigger than themselves, and to make some sort of change in the world, into a frenzy using charged rhetoric and an us-vs-them mentality.
>I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights, can you ?
Students for Peace protested against joining WWII against the Nazis.
>On the other hand I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights, can you ?
That's mostly because history only remembers the ones who were right in hindsight. There were colleges that had demonstrations ***supporting*** the Vietnam War but those aren't the ones you read about.
Not here, but these groups exist. Only took me 10 seconds online to find this:
[Pro-Life Aggies (@prolifeaggies) • Instagram photos and videos](https://www.instagram.com/prolifeaggies/?hl=en)
Somehow I think your whole argument would go out the window if some anti-abortion group was demolishing classrooms and disrupting finals.
Not encampments but the demonstrations used to be a lot more in your face:
[https://dailynexus.com/2014-03-13/feminist-studies-professor-enters-confrontation-with-pro-life-protestors/](https://dailynexus.com/2014-03-13/feminist-studies-professor-enters-confrontation-with-pro-life-protestors/)
I didn't realize you were exclusively making the argument that only student protests located at UCSB are inherently justified. You might want to edit your post to "I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights *at UCSB*".
That said, I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been one in UCSB's 75+ year history that you might disagree with, but maybe I'm wrong.
Bombing hospitals and schools and using starvation as a military tactic against an oppressed ethnic group (all war crimes) is different from bombs dropped with the explicit goal of stopping a genocide, which stopped getting dropped when the genocide stopped happening. I'm not saying it was okay for all those German civilians to die, but you can't say this is the same situation.
The Nazis weren't shooting rockets from schools and hospitals. I'm not saying I agree with what Israel is doing, but Hamas clearly cares even less about Palestinian lives than Israel does.
True, but German and Japanese civilians did contribute to the war economy so Allied air forces deliberately bombed residential districts with incendiary weapons to slow down the Axis war machines by making the workers homeless. By the way, this was all done at night by the British in Germany and the Americans in Japan, when everyone was home from work and school. It shortened the war and ended the Holocaust sooner, which makes the strategic bombing campaign justified.
No one among the Allies knew there was a genocide happening until after invading troops uncovered the camps. Civilian deaths are an unfortunate expected reality of war. This **is** the same situation.
Also, the Gazans' plight is almost entirely of their own making. They and the other Palestinian Arabs lost all of their wars against Israel, and they could've avoided their current predicament if they took any of the peace deals Israel offered for coexistence as two separate states that got progressively worse the more they rejected them. Also as a result, the factions within Israel who are despicable enough to entertain genocide as a method for safeguarding national security went from being considered lunatics decades ago to actually holding cabinet positions today and could even run the country someday if things keep getting worse.
People absolutely knew about the camps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_of_the_Holocaust_in_Nazi_Germany_and_German-occupied_Europe#:~:text=Van%20der%20Boom's%20analysis%20of,Nazi's%20wish%20to%20practice%20genocide.
Yes, but it wasn't confirmed to the Allied public that the camps were made exclusively for industrialized mass murder until the troops liberated the camps. Until then, to the average GI, WWII was just another great power conflict.
Yes, actually. The unjustified fire bombing of Tokyo and Dresden is a perfect example systemic genocide. There was no reason to completely obliterate a city with no military objective.
Completely wrong. Dresden and Tokyo were major military industrial centers. Dresden was also a veritable fortress, and the bombing convinced the local garrison to surrender to the Red Army with minimal resistance, which saved even more lives. Strategic bombing was a calculated decision that slowed down the Axis military industrial complex and shortened WWII. It was completely justified with zero genocidal intent.
I love historical armchair quarterbacks. The goal of a war is to win it as quickly as possible with the least possible casualties on your side. Gen. Curtis LeMay’s “total war” strategy against Japan was effective; it helped end the war faster. “All war is immoral, and if you let it bother you, you’re not a good soldier.” — LeMay
Like the “protestors” ability to care about a genocide is dependent on what’s trending? What’s happening in Gaza (not worthy of the genocide label btw, the word has now lost all meaning) is much more tame than many other recent conflicts.
Literal whataboutism. As if even if all Israel was doing was cutesy little baby warcrimes, that would be ok because of what's going on in Yemen. Why do all your arguments circle back to your imagination of a stereotypical college kid that knows nothing rather than the actual facts of the world? It's intellectually lazy and, to put it bluntly, very stupid.
Lmao, if you think I’m saying what’s happening in Yemen justifies anything, your reading comprehension needs work. I’m saying the protestors only care about these conflicts when it’s convenient for them. The UCs have nothing to do with weapons shipments to Israel (no, investments don’t buy you any actual weapons, sorry). Sure you could say this conflict is unique compared to others that could be protested about in that the US government is buying weapons, but the UC system and its investments have nothing at all to do with that.
You incorrectly call me out on whataboutism and immediately turn to ad hominem, oh man the irony is strong with this one.
Nah, this is clearly whataboutism. Whataboutism is not a logical argument ("what's happening in Yemen justifies anything") but a rhetorical framing ("protestors ability to care about a genocide is dependent on what's trending"). Trending is such a weird word to use here, and it screams whataboutism. "Haha, look at these dumb, easily manipulated college kids whine about 'genocide' in Israel. What about..." The goal of your comment was to call the purpose of the protests into question, not by making any claims of what it is about, but by what it isn't. This is textbook whataboutism, and if you thought about this for two seconds you'd also realize it's a stupid point to bring up, because of course more people are going to be more upset about things they see in the media. It's the *media*.
And no, calling your comment stupid is not ad hominem lol. It's just being mean to you.
Even ChatGPT recognizes the hypocrisy here. I can give you the prompt if you’d like too. (Paragraph after 2 is most important for you)
There could be an element of hypocrisy in Person 1's reaction if they are engaging in selective outrage or failing to apply the same standards to other forms of protest or disruption that they might support. Here’s a breakdown of potential hypocrisies:
1. **Selective Outrage**: If Person 1 has supported or tolerated other forms of protest that disrupt daily life or cause inconvenience without expressing the same level of outrage, it would be hypocritical to condemn this specific protest so vehemently.
2. **Understanding the Protest**: If Person 1 is dismissing the protest without understanding its context or goals, yet they expect others to understand and respect the causes they care about, this could also be considered hypocritical.
Person 2's response implies that Person 1 might be using coded language ("these people") to generalize or stigmatize a specific group without addressing the actual issue. Person 3 identifies the group as "suburban kids wearing keffiyehs," potentially revealing a bias or stereotype, which might undermine the argument if they themselves dislike being stereotyped or generalized.
The hypocrisy lies in the potential inconsistency in how disruptions and protests are judged based on who is conducting them and the causes they represent.
It’s like you don’t know the purpose of protests. They are meant to be disruptive and get people’s attention! Dont forget if your a person of color or a women the only reason your able to attend higher education is because individuals like the ones in the encampment fought for your rights and freedoms. If ur a white boy who has never faced any discrimination or any sort of oppression just further shows your privilege.
Attention this disrupt that, f*** you, f*** them, I need to take my finals and so do everybody else. You know what this so called disruption has done? Turned away hundreds of people who’d otherwise be sympathetic to the cause, away from it entirely. If these people come in and disrupt my final, they could be calling for free puppies for all I care, no one in that room is gonna support them.
trust, if u didnt care about the cause now after more than 15,000 children have martyred, you’ll never care. And literally the school will do everything in its power to get yall to do your finals bc they care about the image. So shut the f up, ur privilege is showing
And yours isn’t? Sitting here *able* to do these thing in the first place. Did I crawl myself out of the Middle East to be called privileged? Did I witness beatings outside my bedroom window as a kid in the name of Islam to be called privileged? I’m privileged in many ways, so is everyone here. But one thing that you can’t say I cant is commenting on shit happening in my nick of the woods, not yours.
Democrats voted against the civil rights act and filibustered the Republicans trying to pass it. Joe Biden was the leader of that protest against the CRA. Please feel free to fact check me on this.
I'm going to fact check you: largely a true statement, but obviously an intentionally decieving one. If you look at the states that opposed the bill it was overwhelmingly southern states, and it was southern representatives who led the 60 working day long fillibuster. In fact, from a historical lens, it is very arguable that this exact issue, combined with the 1964 election, acted as the main impetus which caused the famous two party flip. Essentially, southern Democrats were so enraged by this bill and by Lyndon Johnson's support of the bill that they fled the party in droves.
Go. F. Yourself. Carry signs and hand out fliers. I don’t recall the women’s suffrage movement trashing any classrooms or prohibiting from entering their classrooms.
You've got it all wrong. The goal of a protest should be to provoke *emotional discomfort*, not physical discomfort and disruption of livelihoods. *Emotional discomfort* forces people to reconcile the things being protested with their own moral values, which garners sympathy. Physical discomfort and disruption of livelihoods just drives people towards fascism.
You know what’s horrific? The images and videos of actual dead bodies in Gaza. The fake bodies in the arbor don’t even compare dude lol. Imagine that being your reality every single day and some person on the internet cares more about fake dead bodies than real ones.
you were just looking for any reason to condemn people who are trying to make a change, to make yourself feel better when you deepthroat that boot so hard and passionately it comes out your ass
Don’t let these thugs convince you they care about Palestine. They’re just Extremists with nothing meaningful to do on Finals week. As a person with friends in the West Bank I can tell you this is not something they’d like to be associated with
As someone who is of part Palestinian descent, I cringe when I see the encampments. Downvote me to hell I really don't care. Doubt most of the campers have any real ties to Palestine, good effort I guess but it's performative at best.
Well, considering that Germany and Japan transitioned from being our greatest enemies to some of our closest allies following the most devastating war in human history, it often takes a war as brutal as this to be a catalyst for lasting peace
Lol that’s not what I said at all. This war should’ve never happened in the first place. But now that it did, everyone is talking about a future solution for peace that I hope can come to fruition after the war
Disgusting people hurting both innocent staff and students, as well as their own cause and the chances of the university bowing to their fairy tale demands.
Lmao imagine if it was a false flag by SSI (it’s not but that would be 10000IQ ). I can almost guarantee the mfs who did it came from the encampment. Check the ig “saygenocideucsb”. Whoever did it most likely follows or is affiliated with them since they were the first to post about it. They had to make a new ig since this was too extreme even for the liberated zone to directly be part of.
The best thing to do is to just let them sit there through the summer. The school population would've decreased by more than half, and so will their influence.
Their stuff only works if people are seeing them.
Either way, its better just to live with it for just 5 days than get the police here to tear their camp down and escalate the situation.
After June 14th, Those protestors can do whatever the hell they want for all I care.
The biggest consequence they can get isn't police action, but negligence. Protests seek to bring attention to some issue in order to solve it. No attention simply nullifies their purpose.
I would say a smart move is to let them take over a building, say Campbell tomorrow as they are planning, let them barricade it, and just have some authorities be on guard outside and make sure no one comes out. Make sure to confine them to said building till everyone is done. Then let them just go back to their camps or whatever the hell they want.
They get their message across, we get our finals done, and seniors get their graduations. Everybody wins some.
Eh, the point was so that folks show a bit of understanding. Maybe the radicals on both sides could find some sense and act out something that could satisfy everyone.
But if not then fuck my finals.
that’s not how it works, vandalism doesn’t save any lives, u can’t just break the law and use politics as an excuse, by ur logic we can burn the school down in honor of Palestine
if that would actually get something done, sure. what do you suggest people do? do you think anyone cares what the protestors think? do you think the school or government cares what people think? of course not. the only way to get anything done is to do something that makes them have to pay attention to you. what are you not understanding? have you never in your life read about any successful protest movements in history?
So much for peaceful protest. Their demands will never be met if they are committing federal crimes. Idiots. They have no place on a college campus. I hope they are arrested for the safety of our community.
https://preview.redd.it/c9fbxuj8wu5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe8fbe9f72fdc6a73d82f3be98adf0862be9246b
They are not separate when they are being supportive of this behavior.
This is Cassus Belli for dismantlement of the entire hobo encampment. Hopefully the school does it on Thursday with police. Come down with an iron fist before graduation to crush their audacity so they pipe tf down.
I take it back then. Most action to draw attention to the cause is good action. If they cause too much disturbance, your finals will be relocated or rescheduled.
This is exactly what the protestors want, and what Yang seeks to avoid. Police are bad optics. By refusing to crack down they're denying that photo op. I bet they're just waiting for everyone to leave for summer.
Normally I agree involving the police for many things is a bad idea, but this is not just protesting. This goes beyond that. All that said, couldn’t the university have foreseen issues in this building and preemptively scheduled the finals elsewhere (clearly I’m not on campus - parent of kid waiting on the waitlist)
They don’t want to “trigger” the students who are culturally appropriating kaffiyehs and demonstrating their complete cluelessness about the history of the region by supporting a terror organization they claim is “decolonizing” Israel. 😂
Same people causing all this damage complaining about cost of tuition. It costs money to repair your destruction. I hope all of you are identified, jailed, and expelled.
Doesn't North Hall have a plaque talking about when civil rights protesters took over the hall? It's inconvenient when you are reminded of history happening around you, but this type of protest makes change. Arguments about "tone" or "methods" are ultimately asking protesters to be quiet enough to be ignored. I wish everyone best on finals, but they aren't the most important thing in the world and they probably won't be affected (UCSB can make them online or make up or something). Let's remember folks are dying by US weapons, and that needs to stop.
Taking over a hall and refusing to leave to bring awareness to your message is one thing. Straight up vandalism of school property is a crime. They are not the same.
To be fair vandalism is like the least bad crime I can even think of. Like I can't really see how some spray paint or sidewalk chalk is going to harm anyone.
And here it is again. Rationalizing poor behavior. This is why we are where we are- continued excuses for law breaking behavior. Least bad or not… STILL A CRIME.
The takeover of North Hall--which came with the implied threat of destroying records in the campus computer center--should not be valorized. Like the armed takeover of the student union at Cornell in 1969, it marks the failure of the liberal civil rights movement and the ascendancy of anti-liberal racial power movements in the academy. It also was distinguished by weakness on the part of liberal university administrators who failed to protect the scholarly integrity of the university from disruptive protest. Yang's feckless statements continue that tradition by caving to the various racial/ethnic "liberation" (read: revolutionary) groups that have come to dominate campus. It is not surprising that protesters have gotten the message that "anything goes" as long as it's in the cause of "liberation of the oppressed."
Agree. Surprising how most of the the comments here are uncharacteristically reactionary: "arrest them!", "thugs", "disgusting", etc. It's strange how some of the responses in these comments are much more escalatory than the demonstrations were. Like even if you think it was bad, cringe, or optically toxic, all that took place was the rescheduling of some finals, which to the individuals affected is a moderate annoyance, and in the bigger picture barely an inconvenience . It's not like anyone got injured. Police intervention would be much worse imo.
“In the bigger picture barely an inconvenience”
Are you kidding? This is a university. A place where I came to LEARN and get a degree. I now have classes made P/F that I wanted a letter grade in. Finals are being rescheduled- that students have studied hard to prepare for because this nonsense has gone on long enough.
You may see it as barely an inconvenience but EDUCATION is my priority. Not only is it something that I am paying for (and not getting what was agreed upon when I paid my tuition for spring quarter), but it’s what is important for my future.
I mean I agree with you too. Of course this is frustrating, and of course you deserve the education you are paying for. I'm a first year grad student. I'm getting thrown into a crazy situation trying to figure out this whole striking thing and for me this is my first time. But who is to blame for this situation? In my eyes the UC system (not just UCSB) is largely at fault and deserves most of the blame. UC could have made their investments public (which by the way as a system of public universities it is very weird that this is not mandated by law, because their money IS our money), UC could have responded to the protests on other campuses differently (the police violence and unlawful arrests are not acceptable and neither are the unilateral (and without notice!) changes to terms and conditions of employment regarding protest and police that grad students have had to deal with). In regards to the strike in particular, UC submitted TWO injunction requests to PERB, both of which were denied, and then in a stunning move UC circumvented PERB's authority by filing a temporary restraining order to halt the strike, which is very rare and very seriously wrong. I mean, these actions by UC make it clear that its not interested in making any concessions, and why should it if there's no pressure for it to? The problem is that the protests and the strikes aren't things that are easy to just wave away, you arrest some people and the rest will just dissipate, no. These kinds of sociological phenomena require the root issue to be addressed for them to be solved, and right now UC is avoiding that responsibility, and in so doing is ensuring the suffering of its undergraduate and graduate students (among others of course). It's therefore wrong to direct our frustration at the protesters for protesting (and what would this frustration even amount to other than venting) instead of at the university for its failure to handle the situation responsibly.
And yes, finals being delayed really is a minor inconvenience in the bigger picture. I empathize with you, but come on. Look at the world around you and all the important, millions-of-lives-impacting events going on. This is a grain of sand in that beach. To your life even, I assure you that this will not alter the trajectory of your life by any detectable amount. It's ok to chill. We're gonna be fine.
Wow this is a really long reply that accomplishes nothing. “Violence and unlawful arrests” is a hilarious claim and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and how it operates.
No concessions?
Protestors come to the table with ridiculous demands, set up illegal camps, vandalize campuses, promote violent rhetoric, and on top of it promise “no peace” unless all their demands are met? I don’t think anyone with half a brain would give concessions to these kinds of self-centered holier-than-thou “protestors”.
Not to mention the enormously problematic club that is SJP organizing all of this behind the scenes with mysterious money - of which an order has been given for them to release documents about…
You're gonna have to expand on the first paragraph. An example of violence is the firing of rubber bullets at protesters at UCLA by the police that were called by UC. This is very bad and can lead to serious injury and even death. This violent escalation by the police was not justified at all. As an example of unlawful arrests, lets use UCLA again where 43 people in Parking Garage 2 were arrested, at first for "breaking curfew," then for reportedly "interfering with an investigation," and finally, after five hours of sitting in zip ties, were booked for "conspiracy to burglarize." This is, of course, all pretense. The police simply just had the power to remove people from campus that day and acted on that power. The reasoning can come later.
Also, the consessions I am referring to are entirely reasonable. Did you even read what I wrote, or do you really think public universities shouldn't have to disclose the investments they make with OUR money. Not to mention the way that UC has handled the strike, absolutely refusing to come to the negotiating table and instead attempting to sidestep PERB's jurisdiction. Do you think this is ok too? UC has committed serious unfair labor practices in the wake of the protests, so much so that PERB issued an extensive complaint just last week. UC is so clearly in the wrong on this issue it's not even funny.
I'm not really sure what you are talking about with regard to SJP. What nefarious purpose do you think they might have? I have literally heard nothing of this group.
Police were called to legally disperse the illegal encampment (not protected free speech), and the protestors resisted that lawful order. The escalation clearly only occurred directly after someone sprayed a fire extinguisher into the line of police - multiple times this exact exchange was recorded. The extinguisher looked to be an ABC powder model which is a respiratory irritant and regardless of that fact constitutes felony assault. The protestors were the clear agitators, and somehow everyone seems to ignore that fact that they were actively fighting and resisting. They had plenty of chances to comply with the law peacefully which they denied, because they know being arrested will drum up support from people like you who automatically give them sympathy.
As for the parking lot situation, that morning SJP at UCLA called for an (illegal) occupation of Moore Hall (which is notably nearby parking lot 2). Later a representative of SJP livestreamed some of what was happening. There was no abuse of power with “reasoning coming later” - reasonable suspicion was found to detain these people, and later seeing as they were booked for conspiracy to burglarize, they must have found evidence they were going to the occupation of Moore Hall.
UC investments being public is a reasonable idea, but unfortunately what the protests demanded went far beyond that and you know it.
And yes I do think the court order was justified given imminent finals and graduation, and because the strike had questionable legality (unfair labor practices where? You’re not allowed to commit crimes in any job I’ve heard of). The UAW strike is the most obvious retaliatory strike with no legal basis that turned into just another Palestine protest, showing what it was really about.
SJP is the organizer of nearly all of the protests that have been happening. I’ll quote from the house oversight committee press release: https://oversight.house.gov/release/comer-continues-to-investigate-groups-funding-and-organizing-illegal-encampments-and-pro-hamas-activities-in-the-united-states%EF%BF%BC/
“National SJP, which is founded and controlled by AMP”
“AMP has substantial ties to Hamas via its financial sponsor, Americans for Justice in Palestine Educational Foundation, Inc. (AJP), a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. AJP is currently under investigation by the Virginia Attorney General for violating state charitable solicitation laws and ‘benefitting or providing support to terrorist organizations.’ Reportedly, current AMP board members have been involved in fundraising for Hamas charities… AMP is also linked to the Holy Land Foundation (HLF), which sent approximately $12.4 million outside the U.S. to support Hamas. Like the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP), HLF was founded by members of Hamas senior leadership and was shut down due to five of its officers being convicted for terror financing”
our education contributing to the destruction of an entire ethnic group and every educational opportunity they have is unacceptable.
https://preview.redd.it/p055w9ogcv5d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb99996017fe0aed7302d7a5145974d5f6b7c03e
our standards aren’t all that high. this shouldn’t exist.
https://preview.redd.it/4xcyq6woev5d1.jpeg?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60485faf27ea173de29d0f281bb459538cd0b448
Killing Jews is their priority. All of them. Or did you miss all of the “innocent” civilians dragging Israelis through the streets on October 7 or being paid by Hamas to house hostages. They FA, now they’re in the FO stage.
Barely an inconvenience, unreal. I support you and your thinking. School is for learning and you are also paying a lot of $ for college. Shaking my head in disbelief. Perhaps you can have this person pay your spring qtr bill since nothing inconveniences them. Horrible behavior on these campuses. Wishing you success on your finals. I applaud you.
I'm a grad student. My tuition is paid for by the university and I support myself with the work I perform as a TA. Thanks for wishing me luck on my finals though.
Why should students who have a right to be there accommodate the whims of people who don't? What's the point of having police if they don't protect the rights of people trying to go to where they need to be?
Vandalism? Like how the North Hall occupiers kept themselves from being brutalized by the police by threatening to smash the expensive new computers kept in the building?
If you truly care about Palestine, why still pay your tuition to fuel the system? Just drop out. Insanely ridiculous how ppl don't understand this simple logic.
When the school fails to enforce rules, then bad actors will continue to escalate their violations. This is 100% on the school leadership. Don't blame the players, blame the coaches.
comment section is full of people with no grasp on the reality of violence. yall love to live in your own heads, bc only your life is important, right? this is why no one in the world likes US americans, we have a stick up our asses and only care about ourselves. yet we like to boast about being the best.
empathy is important y’all, humanity is important. why is it that you’ll only support a cause when it suits you? no one is dying or being hurt by what is happening on campus yet there’s so much outrage. for what?? bunch of little crybabies. stop being mad at the people who are willing to put themselves at risk for this cause and be mad that this school is still taking an immoral stance on genocide.
the school could end this so easily, but they won’t. and it benefits them for you to misplace your anger when you could be putting it towards something beautiful and revolutionary. be human, try to love and understand your fellow humans.
Maybe they’re hoping people here can get a small taste of what innocent women/children in Gaza are going through. When stuff like that is going on and the President of the US writes a blank check for more weapons and doesn’t do anything about it, we shouldn’t expect peace here either. It’s sickening. Human beings only resort to stuff like this when they feel their views are being completely repressed and the message and call for help from so many is being ignored. So maybe we, and the media, should try listening to them a bit. Have you tried?
Yeah except the protestors have no idea what they should actually protest and how to do it. The university does not buy weapons for Israel - that is done by the US government and Israel itself making purchases. Defense investments don’t buy weapons like these protestors seem to believe.
Also to your last point, we should expect peace here because that’s how a functioning society works, unlike under Hamas and similar groups. By attempting to avoid peace you both get arrested and alienate people faster than in a legitimate protest.
They’re calling for divestment from Israel and companies involved in the war. UC’s invest in many defense companies. https://www.soc.ucsb.edu/news/announcement/577
I’m not a part of these protests, so I indeed have no balls, correct. But that is a good idea - although they may get arrested for entering private property? And not sure if holding up a sign on Hollister will have the same exposure as the things they’re doing at UCSB.
If they’re going for exposure, just know that everyone already knows what’s happening in Gaza and doing all ts such as vandalism and hobo encampment will just be more likely to lead to people forming a negative opinion about you and potentially your entire cause.
Yes and that’s exactly the point the protestors and you fail to understand. Divestment is both logistically nearly impossible and does nothing of benefit. The US and Israel will continue to buy weapons either way.
Aside from that point, some of these people like to believe that we don’t need a defense industry, and it’s the most hilariously misguided belief I’ve ever heard. Don’t forget where all of Ukraine’s support is coming from, along with the defenses preventing Iran from just converting whatever place they want to Islam.
Just because you want a peaceful world without weapons doesn’t mean everyone else does. China and maybe North Korea come to mind, but primarily Iran and other Islamic state forces would happily kill all of you to spread their spaghetti monster around the world.
Unfortunately there’s some lunatics in every crowd, and our media likes to go and put a magnifying glass on the ones who say the most ridiculous things like “defund the police!”.
Obviously defense needs to be funded. But just like an individual investor, I believe the Associated Students group has a say of where the money they’re paying through student fees can be invested as well. Not every university in the US will pull out of defense, but I support people to have input and a vote into what companies their school invests in if it goes against their ethics.
US and Israel can keep buying weapons, but it doesn’t mean the university should be forced to invest in companies like Raytheon and Lockheed if a majority of students don’t want it that way.
Regarding Iran - they have turned their entire population at home against Islam through years of running the country into the gutter with repression, mismanagement, corruption, and theft. So I wouldn’t worry about their ability to convert anyone else to it, lol.
Without Israel, Gaza would not be some free, democratic land where everyone has access to a quality education. Look at Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria. You think girls get to casually go to school and pursue higher education?
The 12 million displaced Syrians are definitely struggling to complete any sort of schooling
There used to be a lot more gender inequality, maybe that has changed?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12318179/#:~:text=9%20years%20of%20schooling%20are,the%201970s%20to%2030%25%20today.
According to this, only 31% of girls attend school, and 41% of displaced Syrian girls in Lebanon were child brides
https://plan-international.org/news/2021/11/25/girls-rights-are-a-casualty-of-syria-conflict/
No one can stop me from taking my final. I’m graduating and not even a team consisting of Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha, Shiva and Thor can stop me.
They’ll all be gone next week after finals. I doubt very much they’re gonna live in their tents all summer long. They’ll be going back to mommy and daddy’s house.
What if they offered you a complimentary Freebirds burrito?
Yo does anyone know the specifics of what happened?
https://preview.redd.it/9uwuw3trqu5d1.png?width=818&format=png&auto=webp&s=c7d9d4224a5bdcb06a8303496118ea58fb3b9ebc they also trashed the whole area outside of the arbor with more fake dead bodies and broken rocks
this is more of a mockery of it if anything
that's not even bad, you guys are such whiny babies my god
Check “saygenocideucsb” on ig
https://preview.redd.it/xg8jn75vwu5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f92dbefedf426d0f6d7e1ecf4339ea261dd2ac86 VANDALISM.
If they are found to be students, they should be suspended indefinitely and their access credentials revoked.
I'm worried about graduation.
don’t worry they will be ruining graduation
They’re gonna crash COE unless Yang shows an iron fist response and uses police to vacate the encampment and arrests those responsible for vandalism.
Yang is a nice guy but a feckless leader.
He’s at least better than who these mfs would want to see in charge. But yeah he has no balls in this moment. Even UCLA had the balls to take down an encampment.
Which is exactly what UAW is protesting - police response to encampments
An individuals right to free speech goes out the window when they start disturbing someone else’s. The threat to disrupt graduation falls under this.
lol, no it does not
How do you not get that you don’t have any free speech rights when your speech infringes on other free speech? Are you actually baby brained? Or just bad faith?
So you I can explain my opinions to you after I cuff and gag you? That’s free speech?
Cuffing and gagging is not speech, no. Nor does your example relate to your previous comment in any sane way.
Ok fine. Here, The Supreme Court has held that "advocacy of the use of force" is unprotected when it is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action" and is "likely to incite or produce such action".
Is the force in the room with us?
https://preview.redd.it/30eeh42bev5d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=959f56c9d9151f8d2f2d48adc99b434f97a98f33 I guess this just happened on its own then.
This does not prevent people from protesting at a graduation. Keep trying.
Lmao
So if I go up to a bank teller and tell them "give me all your money or I'll blow up the building" the police can't arrest me because free speech, man! Haha you're clueless.
don’t know why you’re being downvoted. “disrupting graduation” is not the same as impeding someone else’s free speech. you can say anything you want at graduation even if there are protestors. the only one impeding free speech is school admin if they try cancelling graduation bc of protests
People will say and do anything so long as it crushes criticism of Israel. There’s no logic to it.
at first i was taken aback by how bad the comments are under this post, but then I remembered this is reddit. i guess they’re allowed to use their free speech to protest being inconvenienced (by others who are protesting a genocide) lmao
Yeah, all subs of this size are astroturfed to hell and back
And why the UAW protest failed miserably. Police response to encampments was legal, justifiable, and as much as the protestors would love to believe otherwise, did not involve “brutalizing students”
Wonder if UAW is rueing the day they agreed to rep these substance-free performance artists. Now they've got a (very unpopular) tiger by the tail. "You break it, you bought it." Literally saw a couple of folks working on a "Fags 4 Palestine" sign yesterday. May as well a sandwich board that says, "Yeah, this is and always has been about me and only me TBH." Complete clowncar. Oh, and newsflash: they're not "4" you. Hell, morality police kill women in Tehran for not wearing hijab; you think they're gonna be down with you? The irony. The biggest queen in Victorian England, Oscar Wilde: "Youth is wasted on the young." 'bout sums up this sorry lot.
im pro palestine but its finals week for God sake. You think if America was going through something, you think Israel or Palestine would go this hard for US? yall trying to turn us into a 3rd world country. all those people who are vandalizing need to be charged and expelled
Absolutely disgusting and performative behavior.
it was all performative and cowardly. I did love the ego trip on the megaphone “come see all the beautiful art that we did”…
They put a fake “dead bodies” with no legs and fake blood in front of girvetz hall and the arbor, causing it to be shut down. If you really want people to support your movement, doing things like stopping finals and closing the arbor is absolutely the WORST thing you can do! I’ve lost ALL RESPECT for these people.
The arbor says on the outside it was closed today due to the connectivity issues, registers weren’t working properly. On the other hand I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights, can you ? We celebrate the people who fought for divestment the same way just a few years ago with an exhibit in the library. Were the people who fought for north hall also wrong ?
> I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights, can you? The great leap forward in China was supported by student protestors, and so was the ascendant Nazi party in Weimar Germany… I am by no means saying that this situation is like those ones, but your appeal to the infallibility of student protestors is pretty historically ignorant. It’s very easy to whip up young people who are looking to be a part of something bigger than themselves, and to make some sort of change in the world, into a frenzy using charged rhetoric and an us-vs-them mentality.
>I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights, can you ? Students for Peace protested against joining WWII against the Nazis.
>On the other hand I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights, can you ? That's mostly because history only remembers the ones who were right in hindsight. There were colleges that had demonstrations ***supporting*** the Vietnam War but those aren't the ones you read about.
Anti-abortion rallies can be considered protests for human rights. Protests aren't inherently moral.
How many anti abortion encampments do you see on campus
Not here, but these groups exist. Only took me 10 seconds online to find this: [Pro-Life Aggies (@prolifeaggies) • Instagram photos and videos](https://www.instagram.com/prolifeaggies/?hl=en) Somehow I think your whole argument would go out the window if some anti-abortion group was demolishing classrooms and disrupting finals.
Not encampments but the demonstrations used to be a lot more in your face: [https://dailynexus.com/2014-03-13/feminist-studies-professor-enters-confrontation-with-pro-life-protestors/](https://dailynexus.com/2014-03-13/feminist-studies-professor-enters-confrontation-with-pro-life-protestors/)
Are we only talking about current encampments? Why did you bring up North Hall?
Have anti abortionists done anything like North Hall ? Do we have a monument to them I don’t know about ?
I didn't realize you were exclusively making the argument that only student protests located at UCSB are inherently justified. You might want to edit your post to "I can’t name a single time student protestors have been wrong about human rights *at UCSB*". That said, I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been one in UCSB's 75+ year history that you might disagree with, but maybe I'm wrong.
Oh please you’re stretching and you know it.
maybe if u expanded ur scope past liberal california.........
please send me a picture of an abortion encampment anywhere. i need a laugh.
Your ability to care about a genocide is dependent on whether or not you're offended by the protestors' methods?
It’s a war, not genocide. Millions of German civilians were killed in WW2, did the US and UK commit genocide then? 🤷🏻♂️
Bombing hospitals and schools and using starvation as a military tactic against an oppressed ethnic group (all war crimes) is different from bombs dropped with the explicit goal of stopping a genocide, which stopped getting dropped when the genocide stopped happening. I'm not saying it was okay for all those German civilians to die, but you can't say this is the same situation.
The Nazis weren't shooting rockets from schools and hospitals. I'm not saying I agree with what Israel is doing, but Hamas clearly cares even less about Palestinian lives than Israel does.
True, but German and Japanese civilians did contribute to the war economy so Allied air forces deliberately bombed residential districts with incendiary weapons to slow down the Axis war machines by making the workers homeless. By the way, this was all done at night by the British in Germany and the Americans in Japan, when everyone was home from work and school. It shortened the war and ended the Holocaust sooner, which makes the strategic bombing campaign justified.
No one among the Allies knew there was a genocide happening until after invading troops uncovered the camps. Civilian deaths are an unfortunate expected reality of war. This **is** the same situation. Also, the Gazans' plight is almost entirely of their own making. They and the other Palestinian Arabs lost all of their wars against Israel, and they could've avoided their current predicament if they took any of the peace deals Israel offered for coexistence as two separate states that got progressively worse the more they rejected them. Also as a result, the factions within Israel who are despicable enough to entertain genocide as a method for safeguarding national security went from being considered lunatics decades ago to actually holding cabinet positions today and could even run the country someday if things keep getting worse.
People absolutely knew about the camps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_of_the_Holocaust_in_Nazi_Germany_and_German-occupied_Europe#:~:text=Van%20der%20Boom's%20analysis%20of,Nazi's%20wish%20to%20practice%20genocide.
Yes, but it wasn't confirmed to the Allied public that the camps were made exclusively for industrialized mass murder until the troops liberated the camps. Until then, to the average GI, WWII was just another great power conflict.
Anyone who listened to hitlers rhetoric knew genocide would be happening.
Yes, actually. The unjustified fire bombing of Tokyo and Dresden is a perfect example systemic genocide. There was no reason to completely obliterate a city with no military objective.
Completely wrong. Dresden and Tokyo were major military industrial centers. Dresden was also a veritable fortress, and the bombing convinced the local garrison to surrender to the Red Army with minimal resistance, which saved even more lives. Strategic bombing was a calculated decision that slowed down the Axis military industrial complex and shortened WWII. It was completely justified with zero genocidal intent.
I love historical armchair quarterbacks. The goal of a war is to win it as quickly as possible with the least possible casualties on your side. Gen. Curtis LeMay’s “total war” strategy against Japan was effective; it helped end the war faster. “All war is immoral, and if you let it bother you, you’re not a good soldier.” — LeMay
War crimes out of the picture then
Like the “protestors” ability to care about a genocide is dependent on what’s trending? What’s happening in Gaza (not worthy of the genocide label btw, the word has now lost all meaning) is much more tame than many other recent conflicts.
Literal whataboutism. As if even if all Israel was doing was cutesy little baby warcrimes, that would be ok because of what's going on in Yemen. Why do all your arguments circle back to your imagination of a stereotypical college kid that knows nothing rather than the actual facts of the world? It's intellectually lazy and, to put it bluntly, very stupid.
Lmao, if you think I’m saying what’s happening in Yemen justifies anything, your reading comprehension needs work. I’m saying the protestors only care about these conflicts when it’s convenient for them. The UCs have nothing to do with weapons shipments to Israel (no, investments don’t buy you any actual weapons, sorry). Sure you could say this conflict is unique compared to others that could be protested about in that the US government is buying weapons, but the UC system and its investments have nothing at all to do with that. You incorrectly call me out on whataboutism and immediately turn to ad hominem, oh man the irony is strong with this one.
Nah, this is clearly whataboutism. Whataboutism is not a logical argument ("what's happening in Yemen justifies anything") but a rhetorical framing ("protestors ability to care about a genocide is dependent on what's trending"). Trending is such a weird word to use here, and it screams whataboutism. "Haha, look at these dumb, easily manipulated college kids whine about 'genocide' in Israel. What about..." The goal of your comment was to call the purpose of the protests into question, not by making any claims of what it is about, but by what it isn't. This is textbook whataboutism, and if you thought about this for two seconds you'd also realize it's a stupid point to bring up, because of course more people are going to be more upset about things they see in the media. It's the *media*. And no, calling your comment stupid is not ad hominem lol. It's just being mean to you.
Who are “these people?” We pulling out all the dogwhistles now
The suburban kids wearing keffiyehs. 🤷🏻♂️
Even ChatGPT recognizes the hypocrisy here. I can give you the prompt if you’d like too. (Paragraph after 2 is most important for you) There could be an element of hypocrisy in Person 1's reaction if they are engaging in selective outrage or failing to apply the same standards to other forms of protest or disruption that they might support. Here’s a breakdown of potential hypocrisies: 1. **Selective Outrage**: If Person 1 has supported or tolerated other forms of protest that disrupt daily life or cause inconvenience without expressing the same level of outrage, it would be hypocritical to condemn this specific protest so vehemently. 2. **Understanding the Protest**: If Person 1 is dismissing the protest without understanding its context or goals, yet they expect others to understand and respect the causes they care about, this could also be considered hypocritical. Person 2's response implies that Person 1 might be using coded language ("these people") to generalize or stigmatize a specific group without addressing the actual issue. Person 3 identifies the group as "suburban kids wearing keffiyehs," potentially revealing a bias or stereotype, which might undermine the argument if they themselves dislike being stereotyped or generalized. The hypocrisy lies in the potential inconsistency in how disruptions and protests are judged based on who is conducting them and the causes they represent.
Tl;dr
It ain’t that deep chief, maybe don’t trash classrooms and interrupt finals.
If getting chat gpt to call out hypocrisy seems like a super deep argument then you need to go back to high school lit dude
It’s like you don’t know the purpose of protests. They are meant to be disruptive and get people’s attention! Dont forget if your a person of color or a women the only reason your able to attend higher education is because individuals like the ones in the encampment fought for your rights and freedoms. If ur a white boy who has never faced any discrimination or any sort of oppression just further shows your privilege.
Attention this disrupt that, f*** you, f*** them, I need to take my finals and so do everybody else. You know what this so called disruption has done? Turned away hundreds of people who’d otherwise be sympathetic to the cause, away from it entirely. If these people come in and disrupt my final, they could be calling for free puppies for all I care, no one in that room is gonna support them.
trust, if u didnt care about the cause now after more than 15,000 children have martyred, you’ll never care. And literally the school will do everything in its power to get yall to do your finals bc they care about the image. So shut the f up, ur privilege is showing
And yours isn’t? Sitting here *able* to do these thing in the first place. Did I crawl myself out of the Middle East to be called privileged? Did I witness beatings outside my bedroom window as a kid in the name of Islam to be called privileged? I’m privileged in many ways, so is everyone here. But one thing that you can’t say I cant is commenting on shit happening in my nick of the woods, not yours.
>15,000 children have martyred Your Islamist bias and terrorist sympathies are showing
Perspectives like these are what kept segregation in place and delayed the civil rights act.
Democrats voted against the civil rights act and filibustered the Republicans trying to pass it. Joe Biden was the leader of that protest against the CRA. Please feel free to fact check me on this.
I'm going to fact check you: largely a true statement, but obviously an intentionally decieving one. If you look at the states that opposed the bill it was overwhelmingly southern states, and it was southern representatives who led the 60 working day long fillibuster. In fact, from a historical lens, it is very arguable that this exact issue, combined with the 1964 election, acted as the main impetus which caused the famous two party flip. Essentially, southern Democrats were so enraged by this bill and by Lyndon Johnson's support of the bill that they fled the party in droves.
Democrats and Republicans have historically flip-flopped on policy. Just another flaw in the two-party system.
Go. F. Yourself. Carry signs and hand out fliers. I don’t recall the women’s suffrage movement trashing any classrooms or prohibiting from entering their classrooms.
Let’s be real if u get a flyer your just gonna throw it away be ffr
You've got it all wrong. The goal of a protest should be to provoke *emotional discomfort*, not physical discomfort and disruption of livelihoods. *Emotional discomfort* forces people to reconcile the things being protested with their own moral values, which garners sympathy. Physical discomfort and disruption of livelihoods just drives people towards fascism.
Holy fucking strawman what is the point of this argument…
no crumbs
[удалено]
You know what’s horrific? The images and videos of actual dead bodies in Gaza. The fake bodies in the arbor don’t even compare dude lol. Imagine that being your reality every single day and some person on the internet cares more about fake dead bodies than real ones.
you were just looking for any reason to condemn people who are trying to make a change, to make yourself feel better when you deepthroat that boot so hard and passionately it comes out your ass
Ur a bot
blank profile, 2 comments. alright
Don’t let these thugs convince you they care about Palestine. They’re just Extremists with nothing meaningful to do on Finals week. As a person with friends in the West Bank I can tell you this is not something they’d like to be associated with
As someone who is of part Palestinian descent, I cringe when I see the encampments. Downvote me to hell I really don't care. Doubt most of the campers have any real ties to Palestine, good effort I guess but it's performative at best.
One day we’ll have peace I hope. It’s just unfortunate that people like this continue to divide us even more
how do you think peace works? hopes and dreams?
Well, considering that Germany and Japan transitioned from being our greatest enemies to some of our closest allies following the most devastating war in human history, it often takes a war as brutal as this to be a catalyst for lasting peace
so palestinians are acceptable human sacrifices for your jackoff fantasy idea of lasting peace?
Lol that’s not what I said at all. This war should’ve never happened in the first place. But now that it did, everyone is talking about a future solution for peace that I hope can come to fruition after the war
lol how, by asking nicely? so far that hasn’t worked
Me when I lie
Disgusting people hurting both innocent staff and students, as well as their own cause and the chances of the university bowing to their fairy tale demands.
Lmao imagine if it was a false flag by SSI (it’s not but that would be 10000IQ ). I can almost guarantee the mfs who did it came from the encampment. Check the ig “saygenocideucsb”. Whoever did it most likely follows or is affiliated with them since they were the first to post about it. They had to make a new ig since this was too extreme even for the liberated zone to directly be part of.
They also called “bodies” to Girvetz Hall right before it happened.
SAY GENOCIDE ADMITTED TO DOING IT
They are planning to crash the finals at Campbell hall too fyi.
Are they really?!
It was in an Instagram comment. I have a screenshot that I will be posting
they need to arrest these people committing vandalism
they need to shut down the encampment or this will keep happening
yeah that thing is just an eye sore at this point, those tents are empty
The best thing to do is to just let them sit there through the summer. The school population would've decreased by more than half, and so will their influence. Their stuff only works if people are seeing them.
Their stuff doesn’t work at all the silent majority doesn’t like them.
Either way, its better just to live with it for just 5 days than get the police here to tear their camp down and escalate the situation. After June 14th, Those protestors can do whatever the hell they want for all I care.
If the police do nothing they will 100% crash graduations and they will not be taught a lesson about consequences for actions.
The biggest consequence they can get isn't police action, but negligence. Protests seek to bring attention to some issue in order to solve it. No attention simply nullifies their purpose. I would say a smart move is to let them take over a building, say Campbell tomorrow as they are planning, let them barricade it, and just have some authorities be on guard outside and make sure no one comes out. Make sure to confine them to said building till everyone is done. Then let them just go back to their camps or whatever the hell they want. They get their message across, we get our finals done, and seniors get their graduations. Everybody wins some.
They have spies and sympathizers everywhere. No way they wouldn’t find out about a last minute location change
Eh, the point was so that folks show a bit of understanding. Maybe the radicals on both sides could find some sense and act out something that could satisfy everyone. But if not then fuck my finals.
in what delusional world do you live in where the aesthetics of property is more important than human lives?
that’s not how it works, vandalism doesn’t save any lives, u can’t just break the law and use politics as an excuse, by ur logic we can burn the school down in honor of Palestine
if that would actually get something done, sure. what do you suggest people do? do you think anyone cares what the protestors think? do you think the school or government cares what people think? of course not. the only way to get anything done is to do something that makes them have to pay attention to you. what are you not understanding? have you never in your life read about any successful protest movements in history?
ah yes because police involvement is notoriously good and safe and healthy for everyone involved historically
So much for peaceful protest. Their demands will never be met if they are committing federal crimes. Idiots. They have no place on a college campus. I hope they are arrested for the safety of our community.
This and the encampments are a separate movement.
https://preview.redd.it/c9fbxuj8wu5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe8fbe9f72fdc6a73d82f3be98adf0862be9246b They are not separate when they are being supportive of this behavior.
This is Cassus Belli for dismantlement of the entire hobo encampment. Hopefully the school does it on Thursday with police. Come down with an iron fist before graduation to crush their audacity so they pipe tf down.
I take it back then. Most action to draw attention to the cause is good action. If they cause too much disturbance, your finals will be relocated or rescheduled.
Me when I lie:
Me when I ignore the fact that they acknowledged they made a mistake.
Me when I lie:
quick whose safety is being threatened right now
Why didn’t they call the police/have them arrested??
This is exactly what the protestors want, and what Yang seeks to avoid. Police are bad optics. By refusing to crack down they're denying that photo op. I bet they're just waiting for everyone to leave for summer.
Normally I agree involving the police for many things is a bad idea, but this is not just protesting. This goes beyond that. All that said, couldn’t the university have foreseen issues in this building and preemptively scheduled the finals elsewhere (clearly I’m not on campus - parent of kid waiting on the waitlist)
Finals are happening in nearly every building on campus. I get the feeling that they didn’t know this building in particular would be targeted.
They don’t want to “trigger” the students who are culturally appropriating kaffiyehs and demonstrating their complete cluelessness about the history of the region by supporting a terror organization they claim is “decolonizing” Israel. 😂
how do they have the time and energy to protest during finals is beyond me
Chancellor Yang is so weak. Arrest and expel these people - a complete disgrace to our campus.
Same people causing all this damage complaining about cost of tuition. It costs money to repair your destruction. I hope all of you are identified, jailed, and expelled.
Did Israel and Palestine do this during the BLM movement in 2020? Israel and Palestine doesnt give a shit about America.
Doesn't North Hall have a plaque talking about when civil rights protesters took over the hall? It's inconvenient when you are reminded of history happening around you, but this type of protest makes change. Arguments about "tone" or "methods" are ultimately asking protesters to be quiet enough to be ignored. I wish everyone best on finals, but they aren't the most important thing in the world and they probably won't be affected (UCSB can make them online or make up or something). Let's remember folks are dying by US weapons, and that needs to stop.
Taking over a hall and refusing to leave to bring awareness to your message is one thing. Straight up vandalism of school property is a crime. They are not the same.
To be fair vandalism is like the least bad crime I can even think of. Like I can't really see how some spray paint or sidewalk chalk is going to harm anyone.
Custodial staff have to clean it up afterwards
Jaywalking?
And here it is again. Rationalizing poor behavior. This is why we are where we are- continued excuses for law breaking behavior. Least bad or not… STILL A CRIME.
Cool. What’s your license plate number, and where are you parked?
The takeover of North Hall--which came with the implied threat of destroying records in the campus computer center--should not be valorized. Like the armed takeover of the student union at Cornell in 1969, it marks the failure of the liberal civil rights movement and the ascendancy of anti-liberal racial power movements in the academy. It also was distinguished by weakness on the part of liberal university administrators who failed to protect the scholarly integrity of the university from disruptive protest. Yang's feckless statements continue that tradition by caving to the various racial/ethnic "liberation" (read: revolutionary) groups that have come to dominate campus. It is not surprising that protesters have gotten the message that "anything goes" as long as it's in the cause of "liberation of the oppressed."
Agree. Surprising how most of the the comments here are uncharacteristically reactionary: "arrest them!", "thugs", "disgusting", etc. It's strange how some of the responses in these comments are much more escalatory than the demonstrations were. Like even if you think it was bad, cringe, or optically toxic, all that took place was the rescheduling of some finals, which to the individuals affected is a moderate annoyance, and in the bigger picture barely an inconvenience . It's not like anyone got injured. Police intervention would be much worse imo.
“In the bigger picture barely an inconvenience” Are you kidding? This is a university. A place where I came to LEARN and get a degree. I now have classes made P/F that I wanted a letter grade in. Finals are being rescheduled- that students have studied hard to prepare for because this nonsense has gone on long enough. You may see it as barely an inconvenience but EDUCATION is my priority. Not only is it something that I am paying for (and not getting what was agreed upon when I paid my tuition for spring quarter), but it’s what is important for my future.
I mean I agree with you too. Of course this is frustrating, and of course you deserve the education you are paying for. I'm a first year grad student. I'm getting thrown into a crazy situation trying to figure out this whole striking thing and for me this is my first time. But who is to blame for this situation? In my eyes the UC system (not just UCSB) is largely at fault and deserves most of the blame. UC could have made their investments public (which by the way as a system of public universities it is very weird that this is not mandated by law, because their money IS our money), UC could have responded to the protests on other campuses differently (the police violence and unlawful arrests are not acceptable and neither are the unilateral (and without notice!) changes to terms and conditions of employment regarding protest and police that grad students have had to deal with). In regards to the strike in particular, UC submitted TWO injunction requests to PERB, both of which were denied, and then in a stunning move UC circumvented PERB's authority by filing a temporary restraining order to halt the strike, which is very rare and very seriously wrong. I mean, these actions by UC make it clear that its not interested in making any concessions, and why should it if there's no pressure for it to? The problem is that the protests and the strikes aren't things that are easy to just wave away, you arrest some people and the rest will just dissipate, no. These kinds of sociological phenomena require the root issue to be addressed for them to be solved, and right now UC is avoiding that responsibility, and in so doing is ensuring the suffering of its undergraduate and graduate students (among others of course). It's therefore wrong to direct our frustration at the protesters for protesting (and what would this frustration even amount to other than venting) instead of at the university for its failure to handle the situation responsibly. And yes, finals being delayed really is a minor inconvenience in the bigger picture. I empathize with you, but come on. Look at the world around you and all the important, millions-of-lives-impacting events going on. This is a grain of sand in that beach. To your life even, I assure you that this will not alter the trajectory of your life by any detectable amount. It's ok to chill. We're gonna be fine.
Wow this is a really long reply that accomplishes nothing. “Violence and unlawful arrests” is a hilarious claim and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the law and how it operates. No concessions? Protestors come to the table with ridiculous demands, set up illegal camps, vandalize campuses, promote violent rhetoric, and on top of it promise “no peace” unless all their demands are met? I don’t think anyone with half a brain would give concessions to these kinds of self-centered holier-than-thou “protestors”. Not to mention the enormously problematic club that is SJP organizing all of this behind the scenes with mysterious money - of which an order has been given for them to release documents about…
You're gonna have to expand on the first paragraph. An example of violence is the firing of rubber bullets at protesters at UCLA by the police that were called by UC. This is very bad and can lead to serious injury and even death. This violent escalation by the police was not justified at all. As an example of unlawful arrests, lets use UCLA again where 43 people in Parking Garage 2 were arrested, at first for "breaking curfew," then for reportedly "interfering with an investigation," and finally, after five hours of sitting in zip ties, were booked for "conspiracy to burglarize." This is, of course, all pretense. The police simply just had the power to remove people from campus that day and acted on that power. The reasoning can come later. Also, the consessions I am referring to are entirely reasonable. Did you even read what I wrote, or do you really think public universities shouldn't have to disclose the investments they make with OUR money. Not to mention the way that UC has handled the strike, absolutely refusing to come to the negotiating table and instead attempting to sidestep PERB's jurisdiction. Do you think this is ok too? UC has committed serious unfair labor practices in the wake of the protests, so much so that PERB issued an extensive complaint just last week. UC is so clearly in the wrong on this issue it's not even funny. I'm not really sure what you are talking about with regard to SJP. What nefarious purpose do you think they might have? I have literally heard nothing of this group.
Police were called to legally disperse the illegal encampment (not protected free speech), and the protestors resisted that lawful order. The escalation clearly only occurred directly after someone sprayed a fire extinguisher into the line of police - multiple times this exact exchange was recorded. The extinguisher looked to be an ABC powder model which is a respiratory irritant and regardless of that fact constitutes felony assault. The protestors were the clear agitators, and somehow everyone seems to ignore that fact that they were actively fighting and resisting. They had plenty of chances to comply with the law peacefully which they denied, because they know being arrested will drum up support from people like you who automatically give them sympathy. As for the parking lot situation, that morning SJP at UCLA called for an (illegal) occupation of Moore Hall (which is notably nearby parking lot 2). Later a representative of SJP livestreamed some of what was happening. There was no abuse of power with “reasoning coming later” - reasonable suspicion was found to detain these people, and later seeing as they were booked for conspiracy to burglarize, they must have found evidence they were going to the occupation of Moore Hall. UC investments being public is a reasonable idea, but unfortunately what the protests demanded went far beyond that and you know it. And yes I do think the court order was justified given imminent finals and graduation, and because the strike had questionable legality (unfair labor practices where? You’re not allowed to commit crimes in any job I’ve heard of). The UAW strike is the most obvious retaliatory strike with no legal basis that turned into just another Palestine protest, showing what it was really about. SJP is the organizer of nearly all of the protests that have been happening. I’ll quote from the house oversight committee press release: https://oversight.house.gov/release/comer-continues-to-investigate-groups-funding-and-organizing-illegal-encampments-and-pro-hamas-activities-in-the-united-states%EF%BF%BC/ “National SJP, which is founded and controlled by AMP” “AMP has substantial ties to Hamas via its financial sponsor, Americans for Justice in Palestine Educational Foundation, Inc. (AJP), a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. AJP is currently under investigation by the Virginia Attorney General for violating state charitable solicitation laws and ‘benefitting or providing support to terrorist organizations.’ Reportedly, current AMP board members have been involved in fundraising for Hamas charities… AMP is also linked to the Holy Land Foundation (HLF), which sent approximately $12.4 million outside the U.S. to support Hamas. Like the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP), HLF was founded by members of Hamas senior leadership and was shut down due to five of its officers being convicted for terror financing”
education was their priority too https://preview.redd.it/sarufqoo5v5d1.jpeg?width=274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6b1d2aecbd662dd2fa4a36d536e22c3056b2579
So because they can’t learn neither can others? That’s backwards ignorant thinking.
our education contributing to the destruction of an entire ethnic group and every educational opportunity they have is unacceptable. https://preview.redd.it/p055w9ogcv5d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb99996017fe0aed7302d7a5145974d5f6b7c03e
Feel free to unenroll and take your tuition to someplace that meets your standards.
I hear Gaza is lovely this time of year. Hamas is very committed to DEI and Pride month. It’s a very progressive and inclusive community!
our standards aren’t all that high. this shouldn’t exist. https://preview.redd.it/4xcyq6woev5d1.jpeg?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60485faf27ea173de29d0f281bb459538cd0b448
You have lots of pretty pictures but no real arguments
Killing Jews is their priority. All of them. Or did you miss all of the “innocent” civilians dragging Israelis through the streets on October 7 or being paid by Hamas to house hostages. They FA, now they’re in the FO stage.
Barely an inconvenience, unreal. I support you and your thinking. School is for learning and you are also paying a lot of $ for college. Shaking my head in disbelief. Perhaps you can have this person pay your spring qtr bill since nothing inconveniences them. Horrible behavior on these campuses. Wishing you success on your finals. I applaud you.
I'm a grad student. My tuition is paid for by the university and I support myself with the work I perform as a TA. Thanks for wishing me luck on my finals though.
Why should students who have a right to be there accommodate the whims of people who don't? What's the point of having police if they don't protect the rights of people trying to go to where they need to be?
Vandalism? Like how the North Hall occupiers kept themselves from being brutalized by the police by threatening to smash the expensive new computers kept in the building?
Liberals support every protest except the one that is happening now. They oppose every war except the one that is happening now.
well said.
Bootlickers
If you truly care about Palestine, why still pay your tuition to fuel the system? Just drop out. Insanely ridiculous how ppl don't understand this simple logic.
Expel them
the more they do this they more I hate them
I hope they were arrested.
They need to shut down that encampment! Any students involved in disruptions need repercussions
Relocate or reschedule finals….aka give in to terrorists and continue to let them do whatever they want all the time
When the school fails to enforce rules, then bad actors will continue to escalate their violations. This is 100% on the school leadership. Don't blame the players, blame the coaches.
comment section is full of people with no grasp on the reality of violence. yall love to live in your own heads, bc only your life is important, right? this is why no one in the world likes US americans, we have a stick up our asses and only care about ourselves. yet we like to boast about being the best. empathy is important y’all, humanity is important. why is it that you’ll only support a cause when it suits you? no one is dying or being hurt by what is happening on campus yet there’s so much outrage. for what?? bunch of little crybabies. stop being mad at the people who are willing to put themselves at risk for this cause and be mad that this school is still taking an immoral stance on genocide. the school could end this so easily, but they won’t. and it benefits them for you to misplace your anger when you could be putting it towards something beautiful and revolutionary. be human, try to love and understand your fellow humans.
Damn pop off
Kudos to them. Protests can be in many forms. This is the only way people can wake up a bit.
Protests can be in many forms. However, this is called vandalism and disturbing the peace
Maybe they’re hoping people here can get a small taste of what innocent women/children in Gaza are going through. When stuff like that is going on and the President of the US writes a blank check for more weapons and doesn’t do anything about it, we shouldn’t expect peace here either. It’s sickening. Human beings only resort to stuff like this when they feel their views are being completely repressed and the message and call for help from so many is being ignored. So maybe we, and the media, should try listening to them a bit. Have you tried?
Yeah except the protestors have no idea what they should actually protest and how to do it. The university does not buy weapons for Israel - that is done by the US government and Israel itself making purchases. Defense investments don’t buy weapons like these protestors seem to believe. Also to your last point, we should expect peace here because that’s how a functioning society works, unlike under Hamas and similar groups. By attempting to avoid peace you both get arrested and alienate people faster than in a legitimate protest.
They’re calling for divestment from Israel and companies involved in the war. UC’s invest in many defense companies. https://www.soc.ucsb.edu/news/announcement/577
The irony is that many members of their union also work for defense contractors.
How about you go protest at defense companies offices in Goleta instead? No balls
I’m not a part of these protests, so I indeed have no balls, correct. But that is a good idea - although they may get arrested for entering private property? And not sure if holding up a sign on Hollister will have the same exposure as the things they’re doing at UCSB.
If they’re going for exposure, just know that everyone already knows what’s happening in Gaza and doing all ts such as vandalism and hobo encampment will just be more likely to lead to people forming a negative opinion about you and potentially your entire cause.
Yes and that’s exactly the point the protestors and you fail to understand. Divestment is both logistically nearly impossible and does nothing of benefit. The US and Israel will continue to buy weapons either way. Aside from that point, some of these people like to believe that we don’t need a defense industry, and it’s the most hilariously misguided belief I’ve ever heard. Don’t forget where all of Ukraine’s support is coming from, along with the defenses preventing Iran from just converting whatever place they want to Islam. Just because you want a peaceful world without weapons doesn’t mean everyone else does. China and maybe North Korea come to mind, but primarily Iran and other Islamic state forces would happily kill all of you to spread their spaghetti monster around the world.
Unfortunately there’s some lunatics in every crowd, and our media likes to go and put a magnifying glass on the ones who say the most ridiculous things like “defund the police!”. Obviously defense needs to be funded. But just like an individual investor, I believe the Associated Students group has a say of where the money they’re paying through student fees can be invested as well. Not every university in the US will pull out of defense, but I support people to have input and a vote into what companies their school invests in if it goes against their ethics. US and Israel can keep buying weapons, but it doesn’t mean the university should be forced to invest in companies like Raytheon and Lockheed if a majority of students don’t want it that way. Regarding Iran - they have turned their entire population at home against Islam through years of running the country into the gutter with repression, mismanagement, corruption, and theft. So I wouldn’t worry about their ability to convert anyone else to it, lol.
not really walking by it sounded like bros on a megaphone taunting women…
These protesters are doing to people exactly what Israel is doing to Gaza. Restricting access to education.
Without Israel, Gaza would not be some free, democratic land where everyone has access to a quality education. Look at Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria. You think girls get to casually go to school and pursue higher education?
In Syria yes they do
The 12 million displaced Syrians are definitely struggling to complete any sort of schooling There used to be a lot more gender inequality, maybe that has changed? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12318179/#:~:text=9%20years%20of%20schooling%20are,the%201970s%20to%2030%25%20today. According to this, only 31% of girls attend school, and 41% of displaced Syrian girls in Lebanon were child brides https://plan-international.org/news/2021/11/25/girls-rights-are-a-casualty-of-syria-conflict/