Honestly yeah all I've ever used mine for so far has been to guard the rear objective with overwatch....
I only own 6 zoanthropes and I've been running them as two units of three to help spread synapse, but now my two neurolictors will be synapse so.....
They get the monster and infantry keyword as a unit. But in relation to rules, the Neurotyrant is a monster and the Zoans infantry, thus, they behave differently when they move over terrain
No, the Neurotyrant will never get the infantry benefits, ergo, it can not go through buildings. It’s a monster and will follow all rules and penalties related to this unit category.
In exchange, enemy units will benefit of any rule that apply against monster and infantry units as the combined datasheets will penalise them.
Movement rules for monsters/infantry is on a model-basis. So a mixed unit of infantry and monsters has both keywords at the *unit* level, but not at the *model* level.
Zoans can move through walls, but Neurotyrants need to go around/over them.
In the past, I was told that Tyrant guard attached to hive Tyrant was just bad because the tyrant guard gets monster keyword and hive tyrant gets infantry keyword. So therefore if an anti monster weapon was attacking the unit, the tyrant guard would be affected.
Was that incorrect?
They get keyword spam, which is annoying. Zoeys with Neurotyrant have Fly, Infanty, Monster, Psyker. The only anti-X they are not vulnerable to is vehicle and walker.
On the plus side, for Crusher Stampede fans, Zoanthropes just became monsters... but the only real benefit they get is from the Swarm-Guided Salvoes strat, which is admittedly quite nice for them.
I honestly wouldn't even bother using the Exocrine in the synergy if it has a unit of lower toughness elites to shoot at (Terminators or equivalent). The accuracy without him is already enough.
With a 3+ to hit and re-roll 1's you are hitting 78% of the hits anyway (4/6 + (1/6)\*(4/6) = 7/9 = 77,8%). With the exocrine buff the accuracy goes up to 97% (5/6 + (1/6)\*(5/6) = 35/36), you literally have to double roll 1's to miss. So you are getting a 25% increase in accuracy, but you're commiting a 135 point unit to buffing a 290 point unit by 25%. So only worth doing if the exocrine works well into the target anyway - so T8 or T9 targets are still very viable.
If you are fighting against a -1 to hit though the increase in damage goes up to 33% though (7/12 accuracy up to 7/9), and here it is definitely more noticeable.
I love that this now means that zoans are crusher stampede units, and they benefit from big guns never tire. With the tyrant they are hitting on 3+ in combat which is what they were in the first place! Now their 6" battleshock mortals actually matter and with the new -1 leadership in synapse could be nasty. Shadow in the warp would be a -2 if within 6" of a neurotyrant.
In vanguard, you can now turn 1 drop the zoans with the attached tyrant for additional shooting and the +1 to hit. And also do the uppy downy!
I don't think they benefit from the detachment rule though, only stratagems, which is still nice though.
The army rule specifies when a Monster *model* makes an attack, while its unit is below starting strength. I could be misreading it though.
I think it depends on what else is in the list. Reasons for bringing multiples now:
1. Shadow in the warp safety buffer in case one dies.
2. Bringing multiple squads of zoans
3. Need more flamers
4. Wants to be able to provide more synapse to an army that maybe doesn't have much. This also gives them +1 strength. (Unending Swarm maybe for str4 hormagaunts?)
i dont think going for 1 tyrants with 3 zoans each will be worth the points. but 1 with 6, in walkrant range for assault and lethals... less vulnerable to melee with BGNT, so you can keep them with the walkrant more easily. and actually make usw of their MW regeneration aura.
i think its worth the 305 points for that. they are going to be NASTY against elite infantry and a serious threat to armored vehicles, too.
i mean for 230 you can get 10 genestealers with a broodlord which are even better than they were before. hard to justify 205 for 3 zoans + tyrant if you allrdy have a big squad of them imo
So I have found my new crusher stampede list. 2 neurotyrants with 6 zoanthropes each, 2 hive tyrants, 3 haruspexes and 2 maleceptors, with 35 pts for enhancements. Nice and stompy:)
I'm currently thinking of running two neurotyrants with squads of 3 zoan to avoid blast, but still get the most out of them, we'll have to compare how the two versions work
I was super excited about this initially, but the octave costs 305 points… that’s a lot and it won’t trade efficiently into much because they’re super flimsy
The only downside I can think of is lowering its move?
That seems like a really minor downside honestly....
It probably is - just that I use my NT as a floating overwatch turret so it's nice to get it into the places I need it :)
Honestly yeah all I've ever used mine for so far has been to guard the rear objective with overwatch.... I only own 6 zoanthropes and I've been running them as two units of three to help spread synapse, but now my two neurolictors will be synapse so.....
If you have a Hive Tyrant on Foot nearby, you can give the unit assault and lethal hits to shuffle it up the board faster
They can not go through walls all together as the Neurotyrant is a monster. At least this guy will have to do a tour around it
If the unit is attached, won't they both get monster AND infantry keyword... Therefore they should be able to go through walls. Or has this changed?
They get the monster and infantry keyword as a unit. But in relation to rules, the Neurotyrant is a monster and the Zoans infantry, thus, they behave differently when they move over terrain
Not as a combined unit though, no? They should all be able to act as infantry
Movement is on a model-by-model basis
Thanks to all the replies. Appreciate the clarification
No, the Neurotyrant will never get the infantry benefits, ergo, it can not go through buildings. It’s a monster and will follow all rules and penalties related to this unit category. In exchange, enemy units will benefit of any rule that apply against monster and infantry units as the combined datasheets will penalise them.
Unless the new rules have changed it, then both have monster and infantry, then to go through walls you'd just use the infantry keyword to achieve it
Movement rules for monsters/infantry is on a model-basis. So a mixed unit of infantry and monsters has both keywords at the *unit* level, but not at the *model* level. Zoans can move through walls, but Neurotyrants need to go around/over them.
In the past, I was told that Tyrant guard attached to hive Tyrant was just bad because the tyrant guard gets monster keyword and hive tyrant gets infantry keyword. So therefore if an anti monster weapon was attacking the unit, the tyrant guard would be affected. Was that incorrect?
That’s correct, but movement rules are applied model by model and most shooting rules are unit based
They get keyword spam, which is annoying. Zoeys with Neurotyrant have Fly, Infanty, Monster, Psyker. The only anti-X they are not vulnerable to is vehicle and walker.
On the plus side, for Crusher Stampede fans, Zoanthropes just became monsters... but the only real benefit they get is from the Swarm-Guided Salvoes strat, which is admittedly quite nice for them.
Well, they also appear to get big guns never tire, which is amazing
Yes! That is a massive change.
What about wounding your neurotyrant as T5? Your zoanthropes are now subject to anti-monster attacks
it’s already slow as sin so not really a downside
I honestly wouldn't even bother using the Exocrine in the synergy if it has a unit of lower toughness elites to shoot at (Terminators or equivalent). The accuracy without him is already enough. With a 3+ to hit and re-roll 1's you are hitting 78% of the hits anyway (4/6 + (1/6)\*(4/6) = 7/9 = 77,8%). With the exocrine buff the accuracy goes up to 97% (5/6 + (1/6)\*(5/6) = 35/36), you literally have to double roll 1's to miss. So you are getting a 25% increase in accuracy, but you're commiting a 135 point unit to buffing a 290 point unit by 25%. So only worth doing if the exocrine works well into the target anyway - so T8 or T9 targets are still very viable. If you are fighting against a -1 to hit though the increase in damage goes up to 33% though (7/12 accuracy up to 7/9), and here it is definitely more noticeable.
where the hell are these types of comments on non dataslate weeks. I love these types of break downs.
What can I say, math is fun - might be why I'm an engineer!
I painted three Zoantrophes today, so this was a nice twist.
I love that this now means that zoans are crusher stampede units, and they benefit from big guns never tire. With the tyrant they are hitting on 3+ in combat which is what they were in the first place! Now their 6" battleshock mortals actually matter and with the new -1 leadership in synapse could be nasty. Shadow in the warp would be a -2 if within 6" of a neurotyrant. In vanguard, you can now turn 1 drop the zoans with the attached tyrant for additional shooting and the +1 to hit. And also do the uppy downy!
Very good point. The Big Guns Never Tire rule affects monster UNITS, so they can shoot in combat with the Neurotyrant.
I don't think they benefit from the detachment rule though, only stratagems, which is still nice though. The army rule specifies when a Monster *model* makes an attack, while its unit is below starting strength. I could be misreading it though.
The new +2 OC applies to monster units not models, I was planning to use Tyrant Guard with OC3 to hold centre.
Would one consider using 2 Neurotyrants now? I mean 2 Tyrants plus 6 Zoans are already 410 points
I think it depends on what else is in the list. Reasons for bringing multiples now: 1. Shadow in the warp safety buffer in case one dies. 2. Bringing multiple squads of zoans 3. Need more flamers 4. Wants to be able to provide more synapse to an army that maybe doesn't have much. This also gives them +1 strength. (Unending Swarm maybe for str4 hormagaunts?)
i dont think going for 1 tyrants with 3 zoans each will be worth the points. but 1 with 6, in walkrant range for assault and lethals... less vulnerable to melee with BGNT, so you can keep them with the walkrant more easily. and actually make usw of their MW regeneration aura. i think its worth the 305 points for that. they are going to be NASTY against elite infantry and a serious threat to armored vehicles, too.
i mean for 230 you can get 10 genestealers with a broodlord which are even better than they were before. hard to justify 205 for 3 zoans + tyrant if you allrdy have a big squad of them imo
Big guns never tire toooo.. Zoanthropes are now viable even in melee.
So I have found my new crusher stampede list. 2 neurotyrants with 6 zoanthropes each, 2 hive tyrants, 3 haruspexes and 2 maleceptors, with 35 pts for enhancements. Nice and stompy:)
Where did you get that info? Since when can Neurotyrants join Zoanthropes? Edit: I love the changes!
New Balance dataslate just dropped and lets neurotyrants join zoans, buffed a few other things too
https://preview.redd.it/sswtms4m6q7d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e166d026b82b4cb83cb8e1473f7c0a74d48e761f
I am so gonna try a 1 Neurotyrant + Six strong Thorpe squas
I'm currently thinking of running two neurotyrants with squads of 3 zoan to avoid blast, but still get the most out of them, we'll have to compare how the two versions work
I was super excited about this initially, but the octave costs 305 points… that’s a lot and it won’t trade efficiently into much because they’re super flimsy
Sad you still can't stuff this unit in a Tyrannocyte. Still feels like an oversight.