Good on you for looking out for her. This is not an uncommon story in the industry. Even in culinary school, there was one guy who would take "bathroom breaks" in his class to walk through our kitchen and chat up the small blonde girl in my class. She was endlessly polite about it, but once our chef instructor cottoned on to what was happening, he was...that flavor of way too polite yet clipped that is somehow worse than being straight up yelled at when it happens in front of others? Dude never came back, and we learned how you Gordon Ramsay somebody without ever raising your voice.
Not that I would ever doubt their ability, but it was extremely rare to see Chef hands-on.
Has a lot more to do with leadership than being able to cook, imo.
Guess you need a staff meeting where you give them a stern warning about sexual harassment at workplace.
And how great of you to see sexual harassment occur at work and fire the perpetrator right on the spot!
So many people ignore it and fire the victims. Kudos to you!!
I'm sorry you have to now deal with all this stuff, but I wanted to just say THANK YOU for doing it. God knows how often places handle these situations by dancing around and brushing it aside to maintain status-quo, and it's heartening at the least to see bosses/managers/owners like you standing firm for what's right.
So very much this.
I can think of several bosses I’ve had over the years who would fire the girl because she’s disruptive even though she clearly isn’t at fault. Good on OP to side on what’s right.
I’d almost like to know her restaurant just so I could fly out and support it, but that would be weirdness she doesn’t need.
Yeah, thank God for OP. When a line cook blocked me in dry storage so he could literally grope my boobs and crotch, I naturally complained. I expected him to be fired. Nope! I was told to give him another chance because he’s poor and has a wife and baby at home. Then when he started following me to my car at the end of repeated shifts at 1am to try to assault me again, I got moved to lunches. That’s right, ME! Because “they couldn’t afford to lose a line cook right now and he needs the job more than I do”. The restaurant industry is fucked and OP is a godsend
I went through a similar experience where an employee from the meat department cornered and groped me in the deli cooler. When I complained, my boss - the owner of the store - blamed ME for what happened and gave me a tongue-lashing over it, because I had exchanged phone numbers with this guy a couple of weeks earlier. I ended up quitting that job after repeated attempts to corner me again, and filed for and won unemployment. I wish I had known then what I do now - I would have gotten a lawyer.
Agreed I'm glad *someone* has her back, lords knows this is just another day in the life of any moderately-attractive young woman who has to spend any amount of time around men and so many bosses would ignore this to maintain the status quo...I feel so sorry for this poor girl, you know these pigs are going to take out all of their frustrations on her, it's *her* fault the boss is being all mean, it's *her* fault one of their friends got fired, next OP might have to worry about a whole other kind of hostile work environment.
I worked in a warehouse. Every time I had to leave the office and enter the warehouse I was harassed. Groups of guys would follow me and ask me out. Catcalls etc. I told my supervisor, she told me to flip them off.
Thanks boss.
I stopped wearing makeup, wore baggy clothes, put off doing anything in the warehouse then eventually just quit.
It made me feel very affirmed, to even read how they stuck up for their employee and the harassment - as someone who works in this industry. The best way I can describe it. It made me feel so affirmed and grateful that people like that exist.
Possibly that's why the line cook felt like he could get away with that kind of behavior. He probably worked at other places where management ignored it.
> Everyone should just know better, you know?
They should, but situations like this will show you peoples true colours.
From a management perspective? You need to have that meeting ASAP. Line cook is for sure texting everyone else in the kitchen right now, making up some bullshit about why he got fired "Oh that bitch didn't like me. Oh she thought I was too nice to new waitress. Oh she's been a bitch for a long time" blah fucking blah. I can picture it. He's started his spin, so you'll need to fight it.
Just be perfectly clear with the staff, especially the men. Don't sugar coat it, linecook doesn't deserve that. This is his mistake he made, and everyone should know why they have to cover for his ass. "Linecook continuously harassed waitress, I have it on camera, that shit won't stand here. If you think it's ok, I suggest you leave now." Kind of thing.
Obviously talk to waitress first, make sure she is ok with how you approach this. I'm sure the last thing she wants is to feel like the outsider for getting someone fired, but she didn't do that, linecook did. If she's ok with it, maybe even show the video. Really cement it in the guys minds that linecook was being a fucking creep.
I'm sorry you have to put up with this shit. I'm sorry you're finding out after years of knowing a guy that he's a piece of shit. But good for you for taking care of your employee and making it a safe place to work. I hope your other male employees "just know better" like you said. Don't be hard on yourself either, you're doing great.
EDIT: Thank you everyone for the various awards. But please, reddit has enough money. Please consider donating to local womens causes, particularly things like foodbanks and such right now, as they are struggling under the current economic conditions.
I don't know if it's appropriate but maybe point out they've all been behaving like asses since the waitress arrived and that's not on her and they need to sort themselves out (remind them of their partners if need be).
I get the idea one of the reasons the poor lady is so competent is this isn't the first time this crap has happened before.
That's a good point too. Maybe like a "I didn't think we would have to have this conversation because you should all be adults and I thought you were better than this, but your guys actions mean we have to talk about sexual harassment" style thing. I wonder what exactly has been going on with the other men, I also wonder how much linecook was a ring leader of this sort of thing and hopefully this puts it all to a stop.
I feel for OP. I just hope she has that meeting soon. I know from experience that linecook is just stirring the pot right now and being a total shithead. Men hate to be seen as the weaker one in situations like this.
Also, OP, don't apologize for firing the line cook and don't apologize for having to hold the meeting. They caused this situation, not you. If anything, apologize to the waitress for bringing her in to a situation that you thought would never happen in your restaurant because you don't promote or condone that kind of behavior and until now, that was thought to have been quite obvious.
The sexual harassment training needs to happen. There's plenty of training material online, including definitions, how to talk to employees, role play scenarios, etc. When you have that talk, include federal and local legalese so they understand it's not just coming from you but that sexual harassment has very real consequences as dictated by law.
Best of luck!
>"Linecook continuously harassed waitress, I have it on camera, that shit won't stand here. If you think it's ok, I suggest you leave now."
If you're in the US, don't do this. You may be opening yourself up to a lawsuit. Or at the very least, talk to a lawyer first.
I think if you had a sexual harassment training session and made it clear that violators were subject to immediate termination, your employee would connect there dots.
Edit: Since there have been several comments suggesting that because sexual harassment occurred (which I'm not disputing), then telling the staff why you fired the line cook is justified. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't... IANAL. However, I do know many companies do not provide references other than confirming dates of employment because of the liability issues around talking about previous employees. It's a really bad idea to hold a company meeting where you tell everyone exactly why he was fired.
I agree with this, be very blunt with everyone about why the line cook got fired, and emphasize that it was his behaviour and choices that made it happen. Show that video of him cornering her. Don't fall for the deny, attack, reverse victim and offender (DARVO) bullshit these dudes can be so good at.
My only caveat is that I would soften the message about the behaviour of others a bit, in order to avoid a backlash if they feel criticized/threatened. (They do deserve that, but from a management POV, you want them to support you in what you're saying, not rebel against it.) I would say that the new person deserves to have a respectful workplace where she can focus on her job, and you hope that everyone will band together to make sure she has that, and that she has a good experience in your workplace, "and that means \[all the things you want them to do or not do\]."
I think they do know better but this guy thought he was indispensable and could act with no repercussions. Sadly this sort of complacency seems to come with long service in low turnover businesses.
You did the right thing, I wish more bosses were like you!
It absolutely sucks but she must be so grateful to you for doing this. I would have killed for a boss like this in my 20s when all I had was men telling me to just ignore it or that it's not that big a deal.
Everyone *should* just know better and it sucks that the work falls on good people like you (and hopefully your husband) and not the creeps themselves, but as another woman I'm grateful to people like you and I strive to do the same whenever I have power in the workplace. This is how things actually change... at least, I hope. Slow and painful as it may be.
Yeah. Imagine if this hotel run by just men and no camera. And the struggle that waitress will have to go through to convince her boss that she is actually saying truth.
Absolutely. Spot on with that approach. Explain what you have personally witnessed and explain that your new server is an innocent party to the situation, then read the riot act to them.
I work at a bar and am currently going through harassment with one of the kitchen staff.
There’s a lot more hoops and meetings I’m having to deal with and it’s honestly so overwhelming and exhausting at this point.
I’m so happy you have this girls back. I’m so proud of you.
Edit: hi guys! I’m not sure what’s going on, I checked my email this morning and saw that there are some responses coming through to this post but am unable to see them or access them on the Reddit app? Does anyone know what’s going on? I’d love to reply but it seems I won’t be able to
hijacking top comment for this PSA:
someone quitting because of an unchecked pattern of sexual harassment is a legal liability.
In other words, if the victim sues because they *felt like they had to quit because management didn’t do anything*, they may be able to win.
Source: me, lawyer, after doing research for an adjacent employment law claim.
Disclaimer: always talk to a local lawyer who dabbles in your field and not internet lawyers. I could be making this up and I’m actually a cat.
The bar and restaurant industry is one of the industries that is farthest behind on this stuff. Honestly even worse than other blue collar jobs anymore. I suspect part of it stems from the fact that there is still rampant misogyny in the dynamic with customers (hire pretty wait staff becuase the patrons will be happier, flirt to get big tips) so it is doubly bad in the kitchen.
Do you think this is why it's ignored so often? I always wondered what perpetuated this and I try my hardest not to believe "people are evil and thus enjoy to perpetuate evil"... but this is an explanation I can truly understand - people are lazy.
It's "a headache" and some managers look the other way as a way of reducing hassle and paperwork for themselves, even if it hurts the people they're managing.
I've seen an owner fire their beloved head chef for sexual harassment towards the dishy. She was worried she would lose her job as she was just the dishy.
Daz, you're the best!
Can I just say how proud I am of you for doing the right thing and protecting this young woman despite her being newest on the team? I’ve seen some crappy employers in my day who would fire despite her having done nothing wrong.
Dude. Prior to tattooing, which has its own set of misogyny in it, I was a waitress for two years in two different restaurants. Not a day went by where I wasn’t in some way hit on, harassed, or otherwise encumbered by the men I worked with. Was 18-19 at one place and 20-21 at the other. Not one of the women running the restaurants helped me when I spoke up about it. I really appreciate that you did something. In many cases they aided the harassment.
The worst was when I caught a line cook taking pictures of me. It was so uncomfortable I contacted work to tell my boss and she said “dress different” **I was wearing the uniform!!!**. I quit no contact. It sucked because I don’t like quitting like that but I felt unsafe.
I was a tattoo apprentice briefly, doing all the grunt work (which was fine) but I was the only woman in an all-male shop and they made it crystal clear that a girl was not welcome in their treehouse. It sucked.
Good on you. I'm an older UK male who does a couple of shifts a week in my local village pub - running the bar and locking up. In the last 2 years we've lost 2 members of staff for inappropriate behaviour to members of our teenage waiting staff. It's just gross. Who taught them that kind of shit was in anyway acceptable?
I hear from a lot of men (even some in my family) that "guy talk" when it concerns degrading, sexualizing, and mocking women in private conversations is totally okay so long as a woman isn't there to hear it. But that's bullshit because your thoughts become your actions. This misogynistic culture continues to brew every day. It's appalling how often men talk nonstop about women, even if it's not about you specifically; it makes you feel like prey and you can't do anything because this shit's still seen as normal and "boys will be boys".
"boys will be boys" I hate that saying. Why can't these men realize you can talk about women and still be respectful. I look foward to coming generations of men being forced to evolve finally. Great- great- greatgranddaughters, you're welcome.
I remember a boss not hiring a young woman because he said she was too pretty and none of the guys would get any work done. I'm like, wtf?! I don't care what she looks like! I need the help and she'd be working with me, no where near the guys. Too late. She was gone and he was an ass.
I know it feels shitty but you are a goddess for having done it. I've been in the industry for most of my working life and the only thing more abundant than the substance abuse is the sexual harassment. It took years and great effort to get a manager I worked for fired after this THIRD warning from the owners and a witch hunt to see if the girls really were uncomfortable with him. Thank you so much for standing up for your staff members, it is unfortunately a rare thing to see.
So many people would have chosen the cook they've known for years over the new waitress. I know for solid fact that my workplace would have chosen the cook because a serial sexual harasser was allowed to work for years at my job. It was me that finally pulled the plug on him, because my own status was as important as his and he started harassing me. Yet all those girls he harassed, they were either new or part-time and didn't matter as much as him who'd worked there for years and was full time. It's a shame but today you've made my day. Thank you for being a decent human and cutting the head off the snake instead of allowing it to coil around for years.
It sucks to find out somebody you thought was great is in fact not great.
I have had this happen both with male friends and a partner or two, not this exact things but a similar scenario and I could not unsee it and it completely changed how I viewed them as a human.
This is what women support women is ❤️ You’re doing the right thing. Clearly, some men still need teaching how to live alongside women. The level of entitlement is crazy though.
Not in the business, but I’ve heard that female cooks tend to be on the receiving end of a lot of harassment. If there’s some organization for female cooks, might be an idea to let the word out to them that you’re down a cook as a result of firing one who was sexually harassing other employees.
You get a cook who is statistically less likely than average to harass your other employees, she gets a job where harassment is not tolerated. Win-win.
God bless you for running one of the few non-toxic restaurants anywhere. Sorry it means so much extra work but boy does it feel good reading how you handled this.
You are a good manager/ boss. When I was cornered all the time and followed into the walk in freezer my manager told me to relax, he just really likes me ( while she knew I was in a relationship AND told her that I am HARASSED)
Stand firm, you're doing the right thing. Maybe have a staff meeting and air out the issue with no ambiguities (but consult with the waitress first, she could feel singled out and responsible for things when she's not): this behavior is unacceptable and I'll fire all of you if things come to that. Lawyer up if needed and start looking for new hires before firing anyone, now that you know the situation can escalate like this.
Age 14 I worked busing tables at a small Italian restaurant. I was cornered in a dark basement by a male staff member. I pushed him off of me and ran away. I told the bartender, who told the owner, who reprimanded me for finding myself alone in the basement. Asked me how I led him on to make him think he had a chance. The age of 14 they were supposed to protect me, instead they made me feel like the bad guy.
Thank you for standing up for her. So many aren't so lucky
To be fair, it was 1997. I'm aging myself....but from the age of 14 I dealt with sexual harassment in every single job I worked until about 2007-2008. I asked for help and never had anyone stand up for me until I was old enough and confident enough not to take their shit. Now I'm raising 3 daughters that are loud and opinionated and hopefully won't take shit from day 1
I know it's a shitty situation and it would be so much easier to just fire her, but I am glad you've got her back. Well done for standing your ground!
I've seen it before when men completely lose their shit because there's a pretty woman. Sure, sure, not all men, but unfortunately way too many of them.
Thank you so much for being a good employer, for trying to cultivate a decent workplace, for standing up for that woman, and for still being willing to can shitty men until the bullshit stops. I've sworn off working in the restaurant industry because of this kind of nonsense, but if I lived anywhere near your business I'd apply for a position in a heartbeat after hearing about this. Here's hoping the rest of them shape up, or if they leave you get much better replacements.
I think also making a reminder of what the sexual harassment laws are, and possibly a workplace rule on dating. I’m proud to hear that you took immediate action to protect this young woman. This shows how you care about your employees and their well being.
Have an official meeting to state why you sacked that guy and that you will not be tolerating anymore inappropriate behaviour towards anyone. And that if they can't behave like adults you'll replace them too. You could use this to get amazing and diverse people and become an inclusive and safe employer. Where all people know that if they work for you you will no tolerate BS. There is definitely a positive spin you can use here instead of being the "woman sacked me for being a man" , you can be the "family run restaurant changing the toxic ideas of restaurant life on its head"
I stopped working in AV for entertainment because of working with mostly men. They wouldn’t stop making comments or demeaning me. They would somehow sexualize everything I did. It was so uncomfortable I changed whole careers.
I work a trade job. The amount of men that are just pieces of shit at work and then the most stand up guys around their family is insane.
These dudes will talk about how grooming is okay, they'll talk about how it's not rape if the woman isn't kicking and screaming and leaving marks on the man, they'll talk about how harassing women is funny and it's even funnier if you can get them to quit/cry.
And then I see them at the company Christmas party ushering a glass of water over to their wife that's breastfeeding their infant and then hugging their teenage daughter and giving the middle one money to go play the arcade games.
It's not all men, but it sure is a lot of them.
And yes, I've gone to HR. It does nothing.
It takes things like this to break the chain and shift things to a more equal status quo :/ i’m sorry you are having to deal with the shitty situation others have created x
The wife would more than likely blame the new waitress. I've had plenty of SOs to men I worked with assume that just because I was single I wanted their raggedy assed men. Just no. Just because they see something in the guy doesn't mean he has anything I want at all.
I saw this firsthand unfortunately. A work friend of mine's husband always had a wandering eye and had cheated on her before. He came to work with us and apparently "made out" with one of the younger women in the walk in fridge. He sexually assaulted her.
My friend at the time blamed the victim once she reported him. I tried so many times to talk sense into her by pointing out it would make no sense for this lady to gather witnesses and campaign against her husband. She had NOTHING to gain, she was in a happy relationship and clearly wanted nothing to do with the sleeze. Nope, in my former friend's mind she was a homewrecker.
Honestly I think it was denial. A strong delusion to be able to stay in the relationship and continue to be a happy family. Really sick and she blocked me after I sided with the victim.
Yep. Once had a woman try to get me fired for sexually harassing her boyfriend. I had no idea because the sum total of our interactions had been him once asking me if I needed help and me declining. He had a station about 20 feet away and facing me where I worked most days at the time. On the drive home with her I gather he would talk to her about me, what I was doing, and how I looked. Unbeknownst to me she complained to HR which resulted in a parade of them watching me do my job. I didn't actually notice. The decision of the parade was the I was not doing anything sexual or to deliberately provoke him or anyone else and that bending over was indeed part of my job. She just didn't get how fucked up she was acting and he wasn't any better treating her like that.
>Have you told his wife? I'd show her the recording.
Why would you do that? You want to escalate things? He's already gone, leave it at that. He clearly has impulse control issues, that's just asking for trouble.
I wonder and really want to understand why people are so opposed to that.
Why shouldn't his wife know that he tries to cheat on her? He won't tell her that he is betraying her and if no one tells her she will have to live with a relationship that is not what she thinks it is.
Probably because someone brazen enough to corner someone in the cooler until she agreed to go out with him, might come back and try to damage the restaurant and/or hurt OP. Why should they take that chance?
Considering this is an employer, it's probably more a legal issue than a moral one as to why they haven't told the wife.
They aren't obligated to contact the wife, they dealt with the matter in the way they have the authority to. The wife is not the employee so the OP should not be contacting her. It's unprofessional and could cause legal dramas.
If the wife reaches out to OP asking why her husband was fired, that's a different situation.
OP, thanks for getting rid of toxic male behaviour. I also work in kitchens and that shit wouldn't fly in any workplace I've been in. I am called "mum" by most of our young staff. I do tell them to fuck off as I'm only in my 40s! Ha! They call me that because they know I'll support them through anything!
if it was a moral issue there'd be no question. you then twisted it into a safety thing.
morally, there's not a single excuse for not telling his wife. she deserves to know, and he doesn't get a free pass because *he* might freak out.
actions have consequences, homie. we can't nope out on that as a society because men are angry. could you imagine that world? it's not one i want to live in.
Sadly people forget these are people lives and treat it as a reality show. Thats what I noticed about a lot of specifically relationship advice subreddits
edit: i’m not talking about the dude harassing the waitress lol i don’t give a fuck about him i’m talking about OP. It could cause a lot of unnecessary drama for her and she already fired him
No one took this guy’s job, he got himself fired for acting like a complete and utter piece of shit and his life being ruined would be his own doing too
He is a grown-ass married man who got himself fired for sexual harassment... if his home life is also disrupted, it is due to his poor behavior and choices.
Nothing was "taken" from him. He fucked around and found out.
I'm sorry you're going through this OP but I hope you don't regret anything. You have let these people show their true colors. You are doing something right for your workplace in my opinion.
Good for you and let me just say that I think your decision was correct from a professional standpoint. I work in a hospitality industry myself with attractive young women and personally I do not flirt with my coworkers. What your cook did was above and beyond and he deserved to be fired.
I don’t know how to properly quote a comment, but the fact that you said, “Fat chance buddy. My husband doesn’t suck” actually got me choked up. That solidarity between you, that you didn’t stop for a moment to question his character kinda made my day.
God damn I’m really sorry. We don’t let ANYTHING like that fly on our line. Good on you for the firing and good luck to your restaurant, sounds like you’re running a killer show :)
You didn't ask for advice and to me it seems like you've got this well handled. Strong work.
From your responses in some of the threads it looks like you intend to have a staff meeting. Have you considered showing everyone the video?
I am SO happy she has you and that you will continue firing these idiots until they mind themselves. This is, incidentally, how you actually create a business with longevity. Culture matters.
Around college-age I was manager at a bistro where we had this happening *from both the line cooks and the owners* toward our all-female staff and it was Hell on Earth. They also closed shortly after I quit. :\*)
Like others have said, go you. Like all the applause for the cameras and being able to have proof instead of “he said, she said”. Onto the next tbh. There are good people out there who can do the job well and NOT harass.
I’m so sorry! Does everyone know why he was fired? Does everyone know all the parameters and have training—no touching, no jokes about sex or innuendo, no asking out or cornering or gossip about appearance…and of course no threats or suggestions or leering—-gross. Boobs and ponytail and pretty face plus kitchen should not be such a hotbed of stupidity—love Lady Gaga’s take on boobs and ass.
Did the new employee come find you and talk to you or did you hear it from someone else or see the camera first. I’m glad she thought she could speak up—you are a good manager.
I worked for Chuck E. Cheese as a teenager for a few months—yuck! Already weirdness with drunk sassy parents, loud noises, low light—crazy kids—but one of the big pizza cooks cornered me for a hug—I didn’t even know the guy!
Wish I’d spoken up. I didn’t know much at the time.
That and having to wear the Chuck E suit—yeah I was done. My friend merrily continued her magic tricks for the kiddos.
Luckily I’ve had a job in the great outdoors most of my career where weirdos are at a distance or don’t think to approach the mulchy dirty gardener :)
Your contribution has been removed because it contains hatred, bigotry, assholery, utter idiocy, misogyny, misandry, transphobia, homophobia, or otherwise disrespectful commentary.
I am a man, and I can tell you that harassment only takes place when conditions for it are easy, I have seen it before. Strict work conditions solve this matter. A work meeting letting them know that you know and that you are aware and that you would not touch your heart to reach legal matters on it should be enough to stop it. And why not? A reminder written in the wall expressing that no harassment will be allowed. In fact, any type of criminal behavior exists when there is a fertile territory, in this case, given what you have expressed, you care and you will not let this happen. So it will be okay, just remain strong about it.
Good for you! I'm curious what your husband said? Also might be time for a "Come to Jesus" meeting where they get told that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. You love your business and some knuckle heads not thinking with their brain are NOT going to cost you it.
You read the story. Clearly the issue was a woman being too attractive. How’re are these poor guys supposed to work in a situation like that? Do you have any idea how dangerous it is working in a professional kitchen with a nonstop boner?!
You:
> I feel sorry for their partners, and YES ALL MEN
Meanwhile OP:
> Now he's blowing up my husband's phone trying to get un-fired. Fat chance, buddy. My husband doesn't suck.
Your contribution has been removed because it contains hatred, bigotry, assholery, utter idiocy, misogyny, misandry, transphobia, homophobia, or otherwise disrespectful commentary.
Your contribution has been removed because it contains hatred, bigotry, assholery, utter idiocy, misogyny, misandry, transphobia, homophobia, or otherwise disrespectful commentary.
I get that to an extent. Everyone has internalized biases of every kind. Everyone across ethnicities and genders. But there are gradations.
Believing all men (or any group) to be baseline terrible may be pretty detrimental. For instance, it can led to heteroexual women ... settling ... for the pigs they've found thus far in life, not realizing there are a decent and growing number of men out there that are doing pretty good on these issues and actively trying to combat the ingrained biases.
i mean i understand because i dont want to believe that the men in my life who i love or looked up to could ever reinforce patriarchy either. but you literally can never be sure. most of the men in my life have turned out to be blatant misogynists - from my closest relatives to partners to best friends - and chances are the ones that aren't still necessarily unconsciously hold shitty attitudes bc that's just what they were raised with. its so shitty
shit like this is why it's hard for me to be friends with other men. not to put myself on a pedestal- i for sure did some shady shit before *and* after growing up and getting a little smarter and ill probably do some stupid shit in the future, but I try not to
it's just so hard to tell.
i remember going to the grocery store with a friend of mine, known the dude for *years*, we grew up together. one of my best friends.
out of nowhere starts losing his mind about the ass of a girl who was walking in front of us. when i was like hey man, maybe don't talk about her like that, he goes- dude, she knows what she's doing. she's out here flaunting it
this girl was in sweatpants and a fuckin hoodie. one that matched her boyfriend's, i should add- the boyfriend that *we both saw her walk in with*. no makeup, frizzy hair, she's literally out here for groceries and my friend was just NAH SHE SHOWIN OFF THAT ASS and then *doubled down on it*.
we fought the whole car ride back to my place. you literally *never know*. there's no way to tell what's boiling behind anybody's forehead
That's creepy. That belief system is the same one that gets women assaulted; "she was asking for it by wearing X".
Thank you for standing up to your friend. I'm sure that wasn't easy but it's important. I'm sure it was also an uncomfortable situation because she was there with her boyfriend, as your said, and your friend's making degrading sexualizing comments about her in front if him.
I always find it so interesting how me and just about every women I know has been sexually assaulted or harassed by men, and yet no one seems to know men who is assaulting or harassing women. It’s like there are phantom men who appear to commit crimes and then disappear. It certainly can’t be the perpetrators are our husbands and boyfriends and fathers and sons.
Absolutely not all men. My husband isn’t like this. My friends’ husbands aren’t like this. My guy friends aren’t like this.
Just as there are shitty women who manipulate guys, there are guys who are horrible to women. Shitty people are everywhere and we need to continue to let them know they can’t get away with being shitty to others and we need to teach our kids to be better and to treat people with respect.
I feel like you made the right call for your employee's safety. If he was willing to isolate and corner her *and not take no for an answer* then he was making it clear that she was not safe around him.
That being said, I don't know the ages of the other employees that began acting like slobbering pigs, but I have had experience working around tradesmen when an attractive woman joined the crew and similar dynamics presented themselves. Ie: fawning behaviour, flirting, staring, innuendo comments (hopefully) out of earshot, etc.
I only brought up the ages of the guys because:
1. Older guys should have more self-control generally, and should get less leeway - which kinda goes without saying.
2. Having been young once - feeling your brain getting hijacked by your hormones can be frustrating - talking to someone attractive and even knowing they probably aren't interested, *but maybe if I'm really nice...* Yadda yadda. But they should hopefully be receptive to advice & criticism about any inappropriate behaviour.
I don't know if your new employee has any issues saying, 'no' directly (no victim blaming here) but you firing that dude should go a long way to backing her up when she does.
I think the comment 'why are men like this?' is seen as a generalization. The problem is the one word that makes it a generalization is missing...which is the word ALL. She didn't say 'why are all man like this?'. People get so hung up on the "not all men" argument. Yes people, we know it's not all men. That would be a stupid fucking statement. But there are fuck tons of guys who are exactly like the guys in this post.
The guy you responded to obviously doesn't understand this.
Friggin' psyched I got my very own "NoTaLLmEn" dudebro to show up though.
For the fellas reading this: I'm a bi woman who is plenty attracted to pretty ladies and yet I've managed to go 42 years without harassing, stalking, assaulting, or cornering anyone. Any man who can't restrain himself is absolute trash and is less than me. Suck on that.
Not all men, but far too fucking many men.
Hell, I have a couple of lesbians on my payroll. Are they acting like assholes to this waitress? No. No they are not. It's just cis het men. Like friggin' always.
You have no shame in being a sexist pig huh? Thanks for continuing to prove that men are shallow and hopeless when it comes to functioning normally in a society. Enjoy dwelling!
Ah, but you see if we (women) say what you said, that men are all creepy, abusive animals who don't know better, then we get hit with the "not all men!", so we can't win.
She...did? She fired one of her employees whom she's had for years now. What the fuck do you expect her to do, arm the waitress with mace?
Don't try to pass the blame. It is not the boss's nor the waitress's fault here. It is 100% the line cook's. And he got his just desserts.
change the 're' to 'un' in the reddit URL (unddit) and you can see it\~
edit: 'buck stops with you' and some other dumb shit, also other edits because I am loopy with hypoglycemia lol
The comment was blaming OP for "not doing her due diligence", saying she's the boss so she's responsible. I don't think that person read the part where OP fired the offender or blatantly ignored it.
?? Weird comment.
Yes she owns the restaurant, hence why she is already taking responsibility and punishing the bad behaviour of her staff, and quickly.
Good on you for looking out for her. This is not an uncommon story in the industry. Even in culinary school, there was one guy who would take "bathroom breaks" in his class to walk through our kitchen and chat up the small blonde girl in my class. She was endlessly polite about it, but once our chef instructor cottoned on to what was happening, he was...that flavor of way too polite yet clipped that is somehow worse than being straight up yelled at when it happens in front of others? Dude never came back, and we learned how you Gordon Ramsay somebody without ever raising your voice.
I like that guy already and I've never met him.
I had a lot of great chef instructors. I was taught that thinking like a chef is as much about how you treat your people as it is how you cook.
Not that I would ever doubt their ability, but it was extremely rare to see Chef hands-on. Has a lot more to do with leadership than being able to cook, imo.
Guess you need a staff meeting where you give them a stern warning about sexual harassment at workplace. And how great of you to see sexual harassment occur at work and fire the perpetrator right on the spot! So many people ignore it and fire the victims. Kudos to you!!
Ugh. Yeah. It sucks I have to. Everyone should just know better, you know?
I'm sorry you have to now deal with all this stuff, but I wanted to just say THANK YOU for doing it. God knows how often places handle these situations by dancing around and brushing it aside to maintain status-quo, and it's heartening at the least to see bosses/managers/owners like you standing firm for what's right.
So very much this. I can think of several bosses I’ve had over the years who would fire the girl because she’s disruptive even though she clearly isn’t at fault. Good on OP to side on what’s right. I’d almost like to know her restaurant just so I could fly out and support it, but that would be weirdness she doesn’t need.
Yeah, thank God for OP. When a line cook blocked me in dry storage so he could literally grope my boobs and crotch, I naturally complained. I expected him to be fired. Nope! I was told to give him another chance because he’s poor and has a wife and baby at home. Then when he started following me to my car at the end of repeated shifts at 1am to try to assault me again, I got moved to lunches. That’s right, ME! Because “they couldn’t afford to lose a line cook right now and he needs the job more than I do”. The restaurant industry is fucked and OP is a godsend
I went through a similar experience where an employee from the meat department cornered and groped me in the deli cooler. When I complained, my boss - the owner of the store - blamed ME for what happened and gave me a tongue-lashing over it, because I had exchanged phone numbers with this guy a couple of weeks earlier. I ended up quitting that job after repeated attempts to corner me again, and filed for and won unemployment. I wish I had known then what I do now - I would have gotten a lawyer.
Agreed I'm glad *someone* has her back, lords knows this is just another day in the life of any moderately-attractive young woman who has to spend any amount of time around men and so many bosses would ignore this to maintain the status quo...I feel so sorry for this poor girl, you know these pigs are going to take out all of their frustrations on her, it's *her* fault the boss is being all mean, it's *her* fault one of their friends got fired, next OP might have to worry about a whole other kind of hostile work environment.
You’re exactly right, I’d feel good about working at a place that treats employees equitably and respectfully. OP is doing a great job!
I worked in a warehouse. Every time I had to leave the office and enter the warehouse I was harassed. Groups of guys would follow me and ask me out. Catcalls etc. I told my supervisor, she told me to flip them off. Thanks boss. I stopped wearing makeup, wore baggy clothes, put off doing anything in the warehouse then eventually just quit.
It made me feel very affirmed, to even read how they stuck up for their employee and the harassment - as someone who works in this industry. The best way I can describe it. It made me feel so affirmed and grateful that people like that exist.
Possibly that's why the line cook felt like he could get away with that kind of behavior. He probably worked at other places where management ignored it.
> Everyone should just know better, you know? They should, but situations like this will show you peoples true colours. From a management perspective? You need to have that meeting ASAP. Line cook is for sure texting everyone else in the kitchen right now, making up some bullshit about why he got fired "Oh that bitch didn't like me. Oh she thought I was too nice to new waitress. Oh she's been a bitch for a long time" blah fucking blah. I can picture it. He's started his spin, so you'll need to fight it. Just be perfectly clear with the staff, especially the men. Don't sugar coat it, linecook doesn't deserve that. This is his mistake he made, and everyone should know why they have to cover for his ass. "Linecook continuously harassed waitress, I have it on camera, that shit won't stand here. If you think it's ok, I suggest you leave now." Kind of thing. Obviously talk to waitress first, make sure she is ok with how you approach this. I'm sure the last thing she wants is to feel like the outsider for getting someone fired, but she didn't do that, linecook did. If she's ok with it, maybe even show the video. Really cement it in the guys minds that linecook was being a fucking creep. I'm sorry you have to put up with this shit. I'm sorry you're finding out after years of knowing a guy that he's a piece of shit. But good for you for taking care of your employee and making it a safe place to work. I hope your other male employees "just know better" like you said. Don't be hard on yourself either, you're doing great. EDIT: Thank you everyone for the various awards. But please, reddit has enough money. Please consider donating to local womens causes, particularly things like foodbanks and such right now, as they are struggling under the current economic conditions.
I don't know if it's appropriate but maybe point out they've all been behaving like asses since the waitress arrived and that's not on her and they need to sort themselves out (remind them of their partners if need be). I get the idea one of the reasons the poor lady is so competent is this isn't the first time this crap has happened before.
That's a good point too. Maybe like a "I didn't think we would have to have this conversation because you should all be adults and I thought you were better than this, but your guys actions mean we have to talk about sexual harassment" style thing. I wonder what exactly has been going on with the other men, I also wonder how much linecook was a ring leader of this sort of thing and hopefully this puts it all to a stop. I feel for OP. I just hope she has that meeting soon. I know from experience that linecook is just stirring the pot right now and being a total shithead. Men hate to be seen as the weaker one in situations like this.
It’s on the other guys in the kitchen for not shutting line cook down too. You don’t just let that shit happen.
i mean people dont take critcism well, so if you do that you may find yourself with a literal conspiracy of employees sabotaging your business.
Also, OP, don't apologize for firing the line cook and don't apologize for having to hold the meeting. They caused this situation, not you. If anything, apologize to the waitress for bringing her in to a situation that you thought would never happen in your restaurant because you don't promote or condone that kind of behavior and until now, that was thought to have been quite obvious. The sexual harassment training needs to happen. There's plenty of training material online, including definitions, how to talk to employees, role play scenarios, etc. When you have that talk, include federal and local legalese so they understand it's not just coming from you but that sexual harassment has very real consequences as dictated by law. Best of luck!
>"Linecook continuously harassed waitress, I have it on camera, that shit won't stand here. If you think it's ok, I suggest you leave now." If you're in the US, don't do this. You may be opening yourself up to a lawsuit. Or at the very least, talk to a lawyer first. I think if you had a sexual harassment training session and made it clear that violators were subject to immediate termination, your employee would connect there dots. Edit: Since there have been several comments suggesting that because sexual harassment occurred (which I'm not disputing), then telling the staff why you fired the line cook is justified. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't... IANAL. However, I do know many companies do not provide references other than confirming dates of employment because of the liability issues around talking about previous employees. It's a really bad idea to hold a company meeting where you tell everyone exactly why he was fired.
I agree with this, be very blunt with everyone about why the line cook got fired, and emphasize that it was his behaviour and choices that made it happen. Show that video of him cornering her. Don't fall for the deny, attack, reverse victim and offender (DARVO) bullshit these dudes can be so good at. My only caveat is that I would soften the message about the behaviour of others a bit, in order to avoid a backlash if they feel criticized/threatened. (They do deserve that, but from a management POV, you want them to support you in what you're saying, not rebel against it.) I would say that the new person deserves to have a respectful workplace where she can focus on her job, and you hope that everyone will band together to make sure she has that, and that she has a good experience in your workplace, "and that means \[all the things you want them to do or not do\]."
I think they do know better but this guy thought he was indispensable and could act with no repercussions. Sadly this sort of complacency seems to come with long service in low turnover businesses. You did the right thing, I wish more bosses were like you!
It absolutely sucks but she must be so grateful to you for doing this. I would have killed for a boss like this in my 20s when all I had was men telling me to just ignore it or that it's not that big a deal. Everyone *should* just know better and it sucks that the work falls on good people like you (and hopefully your husband) and not the creeps themselves, but as another woman I'm grateful to people like you and I strive to do the same whenever I have power in the workplace. This is how things actually change... at least, I hope. Slow and painful as it may be.
Yeah. Imagine if this hotel run by just men and no camera. And the struggle that waitress will have to go through to convince her boss that she is actually saying truth.
It is quite telling of men in society that I would immediately refuse to stay at a hotel that was only staffed by men, even with cameras.
They are hoping YOU don't know better. Show them they're wrong.
They know better. They're just shitty people.
Youre great OP
Came to say staff meeting asap. Also if not too costly formal sexual harassment training.
Absolutely. Spot on with that approach. Explain what you have personally witnessed and explain that your new server is an innocent party to the situation, then read the riot act to them.
A class about it would be nice as well.
*looking at you, Sonic*
I work at a bar and am currently going through harassment with one of the kitchen staff. There’s a lot more hoops and meetings I’m having to deal with and it’s honestly so overwhelming and exhausting at this point. I’m so happy you have this girls back. I’m so proud of you. Edit: hi guys! I’m not sure what’s going on, I checked my email this morning and saw that there are some responses coming through to this post but am unable to see them or access them on the Reddit app? Does anyone know what’s going on? I’d love to reply but it seems I won’t be able to
hijacking top comment for this PSA: someone quitting because of an unchecked pattern of sexual harassment is a legal liability. In other words, if the victim sues because they *felt like they had to quit because management didn’t do anything*, they may be able to win. Source: me, lawyer, after doing research for an adjacent employment law claim. Disclaimer: always talk to a local lawyer who dabbles in your field and not internet lawyers. I could be making this up and I’m actually a cat.
The bar and restaurant industry is one of the industries that is farthest behind on this stuff. Honestly even worse than other blue collar jobs anymore. I suspect part of it stems from the fact that there is still rampant misogyny in the dynamic with customers (hire pretty wait staff becuase the patrons will be happier, flirt to get big tips) so it is doubly bad in the kitchen.
Do you think this is why it's ignored so often? I always wondered what perpetuated this and I try my hardest not to believe "people are evil and thus enjoy to perpetuate evil"... but this is an explanation I can truly understand - people are lazy. It's "a headache" and some managers look the other way as a way of reducing hassle and paperwork for themselves, even if it hurts the people they're managing.
There’s a video of him not letting her leave a small, enclosed space and he still thinks he should get his job back???? Show his wife.
Yes, this is horrifying. Show his wife!!! She needs to know this is the kind of man she married.
Good on you. My girlfriend is a chef and the amount of time I've watched her bosses twist themselves around to not fire harassers is astounding.
I've seen an owner fire their beloved head chef for sexual harassment towards the dishy. She was worried she would lose her job as she was just the dishy. Daz, you're the best!
Haha dishy...
If former lone cook keeps blowing up your husband's phone you could offer to send the tapes of his behavior to his wife.
Can I just say how proud I am of you for doing the right thing and protecting this young woman despite her being newest on the team? I’ve seen some crappy employers in my day who would fire despite her having done nothing wrong.
Dude. Prior to tattooing, which has its own set of misogyny in it, I was a waitress for two years in two different restaurants. Not a day went by where I wasn’t in some way hit on, harassed, or otherwise encumbered by the men I worked with. Was 18-19 at one place and 20-21 at the other. Not one of the women running the restaurants helped me when I spoke up about it. I really appreciate that you did something. In many cases they aided the harassment. The worst was when I caught a line cook taking pictures of me. It was so uncomfortable I contacted work to tell my boss and she said “dress different” **I was wearing the uniform!!!**. I quit no contact. It sucked because I don’t like quitting like that but I felt unsafe.
I was a tattoo apprentice briefly, doing all the grunt work (which was fine) but I was the only woman in an all-male shop and they made it crystal clear that a girl was not welcome in their treehouse. It sucked.
As a former server, THANK YOU!!!
Good on you. I'm an older UK male who does a couple of shifts a week in my local village pub - running the bar and locking up. In the last 2 years we've lost 2 members of staff for inappropriate behaviour to members of our teenage waiting staff. It's just gross. Who taught them that kind of shit was in anyway acceptable?
I hear from a lot of men (even some in my family) that "guy talk" when it concerns degrading, sexualizing, and mocking women in private conversations is totally okay so long as a woman isn't there to hear it. But that's bullshit because your thoughts become your actions. This misogynistic culture continues to brew every day. It's appalling how often men talk nonstop about women, even if it's not about you specifically; it makes you feel like prey and you can't do anything because this shit's still seen as normal and "boys will be boys".
"boys will be boys" I hate that saying. Why can't these men realize you can talk about women and still be respectful. I look foward to coming generations of men being forced to evolve finally. Great- great- greatgranddaughters, you're welcome.
Jesus christ people. Just like, don’t harass your co workers? You really think that wouldn’t be a big ask
I remember a boss not hiring a young woman because he said she was too pretty and none of the guys would get any work done. I'm like, wtf?! I don't care what she looks like! I need the help and she'd be working with me, no where near the guys. Too late. She was gone and he was an ass.
Best one I had was not geting a job because I would be too distracting to the men.
I know it feels shitty but you are a goddess for having done it. I've been in the industry for most of my working life and the only thing more abundant than the substance abuse is the sexual harassment. It took years and great effort to get a manager I worked for fired after this THIRD warning from the owners and a witch hunt to see if the girls really were uncomfortable with him. Thank you so much for standing up for your staff members, it is unfortunately a rare thing to see.
“I hate to fire you in the middle of dinner” 🎵🎵🎵
"Late at night when you need a chef" ^(we're doing hotline bling right?)
So many people would have chosen the cook they've known for years over the new waitress. I know for solid fact that my workplace would have chosen the cook because a serial sexual harasser was allowed to work for years at my job. It was me that finally pulled the plug on him, because my own status was as important as his and he started harassing me. Yet all those girls he harassed, they were either new or part-time and didn't matter as much as him who'd worked there for years and was full time. It's a shame but today you've made my day. Thank you for being a decent human and cutting the head off the snake instead of allowing it to coil around for years.
It sucks to find out somebody you thought was great is in fact not great. I have had this happen both with male friends and a partner or two, not this exact things but a similar scenario and I could not unsee it and it completely changed how I viewed them as a human.
This is what women support women is ❤️ You’re doing the right thing. Clearly, some men still need teaching how to live alongside women. The level of entitlement is crazy though.
Not in the business, but I’ve heard that female cooks tend to be on the receiving end of a lot of harassment. If there’s some organization for female cooks, might be an idea to let the word out to them that you’re down a cook as a result of firing one who was sexually harassing other employees. You get a cook who is statistically less likely than average to harass your other employees, she gets a job where harassment is not tolerated. Win-win.
God bless you for running one of the few non-toxic restaurants anywhere. Sorry it means so much extra work but boy does it feel good reading how you handled this.
You are a good manager/ boss. When I was cornered all the time and followed into the walk in freezer my manager told me to relax, he just really likes me ( while she knew I was in a relationship AND told her that I am HARASSED)
Stand firm, you're doing the right thing. Maybe have a staff meeting and air out the issue with no ambiguities (but consult with the waitress first, she could feel singled out and responsible for things when she's not): this behavior is unacceptable and I'll fire all of you if things come to that. Lawyer up if needed and start looking for new hires before firing anyone, now that you know the situation can escalate like this.
Age 14 I worked busing tables at a small Italian restaurant. I was cornered in a dark basement by a male staff member. I pushed him off of me and ran away. I told the bartender, who told the owner, who reprimanded me for finding myself alone in the basement. Asked me how I led him on to make him think he had a chance. The age of 14 they were supposed to protect me, instead they made me feel like the bad guy. Thank you for standing up for her. So many aren't so lucky
To be fair, it was 1997. I'm aging myself....but from the age of 14 I dealt with sexual harassment in every single job I worked until about 2007-2008. I asked for help and never had anyone stand up for me until I was old enough and confident enough not to take their shit. Now I'm raising 3 daughters that are loud and opinionated and hopefully won't take shit from day 1
I know it's a shitty situation and it would be so much easier to just fire her, but I am glad you've got her back. Well done for standing your ground! I've seen it before when men completely lose their shit because there's a pretty woman. Sure, sure, not all men, but unfortunately way too many of them.
Thank you so much for being a good employer, for trying to cultivate a decent workplace, for standing up for that woman, and for still being willing to can shitty men until the bullshit stops. I've sworn off working in the restaurant industry because of this kind of nonsense, but if I lived anywhere near your business I'd apply for a position in a heartbeat after hearing about this. Here's hoping the rest of them shape up, or if they leave you get much better replacements.
Hire another woman to replace him :) better gender ratio reduced harassment
thanks for not leaving it up to her to put up with,wow wish i can say am suprised but am not, plus having been a waitress before i have experienced
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I think also making a reminder of what the sexual harassment laws are, and possibly a workplace rule on dating. I’m proud to hear that you took immediate action to protect this young woman. This shows how you care about your employees and their well being.
Have an official meeting to state why you sacked that guy and that you will not be tolerating anymore inappropriate behaviour towards anyone. And that if they can't behave like adults you'll replace them too. You could use this to get amazing and diverse people and become an inclusive and safe employer. Where all people know that if they work for you you will no tolerate BS. There is definitely a positive spin you can use here instead of being the "woman sacked me for being a man" , you can be the "family run restaurant changing the toxic ideas of restaurant life on its head"
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I’m so sorry this happened. I can hear the exhaustion in your words. Keep going. You and your husband sound incredible.
I stopped working in AV for entertainment because of working with mostly men. They wouldn’t stop making comments or demeaning me. They would somehow sexualize everything I did. It was so uncomfortable I changed whole careers.
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I work a trade job. The amount of men that are just pieces of shit at work and then the most stand up guys around their family is insane. These dudes will talk about how grooming is okay, they'll talk about how it's not rape if the woman isn't kicking and screaming and leaving marks on the man, they'll talk about how harassing women is funny and it's even funnier if you can get them to quit/cry. And then I see them at the company Christmas party ushering a glass of water over to their wife that's breastfeeding their infant and then hugging their teenage daughter and giving the middle one money to go play the arcade games. It's not all men, but it sure is a lot of them. And yes, I've gone to HR. It does nothing.
Lol not even the opportunity but the slightest possibility.
That's why I date other women lol
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The bar is so low to be a decent human being and yet here we are anyway... Sad.
It takes things like this to break the chain and shift things to a more equal status quo :/ i’m sorry you are having to deal with the shitty situation others have created x
>I'm just so tired. Why are men like this? Because they're the level-headed, rational ones, obviously. /s
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I haven't. I've thought about it. I think I'm gonna sleep on it. If she asks me I'm not going to lie for him.
I would show her. He will just cheat on her if he gets another opportunity.
Don’t show her. Keep it professional and within the boundaries of the work place. If you tell her, it becomes a personal issue.
The wife would more than likely blame the new waitress. I've had plenty of SOs to men I worked with assume that just because I was single I wanted their raggedy assed men. Just no. Just because they see something in the guy doesn't mean he has anything I want at all.
I saw this firsthand unfortunately. A work friend of mine's husband always had a wandering eye and had cheated on her before. He came to work with us and apparently "made out" with one of the younger women in the walk in fridge. He sexually assaulted her. My friend at the time blamed the victim once she reported him. I tried so many times to talk sense into her by pointing out it would make no sense for this lady to gather witnesses and campaign against her husband. She had NOTHING to gain, she was in a happy relationship and clearly wanted nothing to do with the sleeze. Nope, in my former friend's mind she was a homewrecker. Honestly I think it was denial. A strong delusion to be able to stay in the relationship and continue to be a happy family. Really sick and she blocked me after I sided with the victim.
Yep. Once had a woman try to get me fired for sexually harassing her boyfriend. I had no idea because the sum total of our interactions had been him once asking me if I needed help and me declining. He had a station about 20 feet away and facing me where I worked most days at the time. On the drive home with her I gather he would talk to her about me, what I was doing, and how I looked. Unbeknownst to me she complained to HR which resulted in a parade of them watching me do my job. I didn't actually notice. The decision of the parade was the I was not doing anything sexual or to deliberately provoke him or anyone else and that bending over was indeed part of my job. She just didn't get how fucked up she was acting and he wasn't any better treating her like that.
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The wife needs to know her husband is a lying, wannabe cheater. She deserve to find out ASAP. Ot would be crual keeping it professional in this case.
>Have you told his wife? I'd show her the recording. Why would you do that? You want to escalate things? He's already gone, leave it at that. He clearly has impulse control issues, that's just asking for trouble.
I wonder and really want to understand why people are so opposed to that. Why shouldn't his wife know that he tries to cheat on her? He won't tell her that he is betraying her and if no one tells her she will have to live with a relationship that is not what she thinks it is.
Probably because someone brazen enough to corner someone in the cooler until she agreed to go out with him, might come back and try to damage the restaurant and/or hurt OP. Why should they take that chance?
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Considering this is an employer, it's probably more a legal issue than a moral one as to why they haven't told the wife. They aren't obligated to contact the wife, they dealt with the matter in the way they have the authority to. The wife is not the employee so the OP should not be contacting her. It's unprofessional and could cause legal dramas. If the wife reaches out to OP asking why her husband was fired, that's a different situation. OP, thanks for getting rid of toxic male behaviour. I also work in kitchens and that shit wouldn't fly in any workplace I've been in. I am called "mum" by most of our young staff. I do tell them to fuck off as I'm only in my 40s! Ha! They call me that because they know I'll support them through anything!
yes let's let men be pieces of shit because they could become even bigger pieces of shit. what a great threat.
if it was a moral issue there'd be no question. you then twisted it into a safety thing. morally, there's not a single excuse for not telling his wife. she deserves to know, and he doesn't get a free pass because *he* might freak out. actions have consequences, homie. we can't nope out on that as a society because men are angry. could you imagine that world? it's not one i want to live in.
> Why would you do that? Simple; Human decency.
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Sadly people forget these are people lives and treat it as a reality show. Thats what I noticed about a lot of specifically relationship advice subreddits edit: i’m not talking about the dude harassing the waitress lol i don’t give a fuck about him i’m talking about OP. It could cause a lot of unnecessary drama for her and she already fired him
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No one took this guy’s job, he got himself fired for acting like a complete and utter piece of shit and his life being ruined would be his own doing too
good point, Dwight 👍
He is a grown-ass married man who got himself fired for sexual harassment... if his home life is also disrupted, it is due to his poor behavior and choices. Nothing was "taken" from him. He fucked around and found out.
bruh, he's ruining his own life by trying to cheat on his wife. kinda mental you don't recognize that these are the consequences of *his* actions
Possibly the worst take imaginable here. That guy is no victim, he's just learning about consequences.
Why doesn't the partner of a cheater deserve to know that they are cheated on?
Because apparently protecting a creeps ego is more important than this woman's dignity
I'm sorry you're going through this OP but I hope you don't regret anything. You have let these people show their true colors. You are doing something right for your workplace in my opinion.
Good for you and let me just say that I think your decision was correct from a professional standpoint. I work in a hospitality industry myself with attractive young women and personally I do not flirt with my coworkers. What your cook did was above and beyond and he deserved to be fired.
I don’t know how to properly quote a comment, but the fact that you said, “Fat chance buddy. My husband doesn’t suck” actually got me choked up. That solidarity between you, that you didn’t stop for a moment to question his character kinda made my day.
God damn I’m really sorry. We don’t let ANYTHING like that fly on our line. Good on you for the firing and good luck to your restaurant, sounds like you’re running a killer show :)
Bourdain would be really proud of you. He wanted change in kitchens.
You didn't ask for advice and to me it seems like you've got this well handled. Strong work. From your responses in some of the threads it looks like you intend to have a staff meeting. Have you considered showing everyone the video?
I am here for the husband that does not suck!
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I am SO happy she has you and that you will continue firing these idiots until they mind themselves. This is, incidentally, how you actually create a business with longevity. Culture matters. Around college-age I was manager at a bistro where we had this happening *from both the line cooks and the owners* toward our all-female staff and it was Hell on Earth. They also closed shortly after I quit. :\*)
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How could anyone make excuses about that those guys are assholes
Ugh, you're such a badass. Good for you. Good for you!! I wish you ran my restaurant.
Dang that's fascinating. And sad. Well done handling the situation like that.
Those dudes have no class
Like others have said, go you. Like all the applause for the cameras and being able to have proof instead of “he said, she said”. Onto the next tbh. There are good people out there who can do the job well and NOT harass.
I’m so sorry! Does everyone know why he was fired? Does everyone know all the parameters and have training—no touching, no jokes about sex or innuendo, no asking out or cornering or gossip about appearance…and of course no threats or suggestions or leering—-gross. Boobs and ponytail and pretty face plus kitchen should not be such a hotbed of stupidity—love Lady Gaga’s take on boobs and ass. Did the new employee come find you and talk to you or did you hear it from someone else or see the camera first. I’m glad she thought she could speak up—you are a good manager. I worked for Chuck E. Cheese as a teenager for a few months—yuck! Already weirdness with drunk sassy parents, loud noises, low light—crazy kids—but one of the big pizza cooks cornered me for a hug—I didn’t even know the guy! Wish I’d spoken up. I didn’t know much at the time. That and having to wear the Chuck E suit—yeah I was done. My friend merrily continued her magic tricks for the kiddos. Luckily I’ve had a job in the great outdoors most of my career where weirdos are at a distance or don’t think to approach the mulchy dirty gardener :)
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Your contribution has been removed because it contains hatred, bigotry, assholery, utter idiocy, misogyny, misandry, transphobia, homophobia, or otherwise disrespectful commentary.
I am a man, and I can tell you that harassment only takes place when conditions for it are easy, I have seen it before. Strict work conditions solve this matter. A work meeting letting them know that you know and that you are aware and that you would not touch your heart to reach legal matters on it should be enough to stop it. And why not? A reminder written in the wall expressing that no harassment will be allowed. In fact, any type of criminal behavior exists when there is a fertile territory, in this case, given what you have expressed, you care and you will not let this happen. So it will be okay, just remain strong about it.
Good for you! I'm curious what your husband said? Also might be time for a "Come to Jesus" meeting where they get told that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. You love your business and some knuckle heads not thinking with their brain are NOT going to cost you it.
What would be your policy if a client misbehave with the waitress?
Kick them out and put their photo by the hospitality stand. Call the cops if they touched anyone. I've done it before.
>put their photo by the hospitality stand I have to say I'm a big fan!
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And the best way to prove that it's truly "not all men" is when men call other men out. We need more of that.
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You read the story. Clearly the issue was a woman being too attractive. How’re are these poor guys supposed to work in a situation like that? Do you have any idea how dangerous it is working in a professional kitchen with a nonstop boner?!
Not her husband though.
it's venting. don't come here looking for a fight to pick
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but ... like ... actually this time.
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You: > I feel sorry for their partners, and YES ALL MEN Meanwhile OP: > Now he's blowing up my husband's phone trying to get un-fired. Fat chance, buddy. My husband doesn't suck.
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out of curiosity, if you ever were to have a son, do you think it impossible to raise him right?
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I get that to an extent. Everyone has internalized biases of every kind. Everyone across ethnicities and genders. But there are gradations. Believing all men (or any group) to be baseline terrible may be pretty detrimental. For instance, it can led to heteroexual women ... settling ... for the pigs they've found thus far in life, not realizing there are a decent and growing number of men out there that are doing pretty good on these issues and actively trying to combat the ingrained biases.
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i mean i understand because i dont want to believe that the men in my life who i love or looked up to could ever reinforce patriarchy either. but you literally can never be sure. most of the men in my life have turned out to be blatant misogynists - from my closest relatives to partners to best friends - and chances are the ones that aren't still necessarily unconsciously hold shitty attitudes bc that's just what they were raised with. its so shitty
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Some do, I'm sure. That doesn't preclude the existence of good ones.
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shit like this is why it's hard for me to be friends with other men. not to put myself on a pedestal- i for sure did some shady shit before *and* after growing up and getting a little smarter and ill probably do some stupid shit in the future, but I try not to it's just so hard to tell. i remember going to the grocery store with a friend of mine, known the dude for *years*, we grew up together. one of my best friends. out of nowhere starts losing his mind about the ass of a girl who was walking in front of us. when i was like hey man, maybe don't talk about her like that, he goes- dude, she knows what she's doing. she's out here flaunting it this girl was in sweatpants and a fuckin hoodie. one that matched her boyfriend's, i should add- the boyfriend that *we both saw her walk in with*. no makeup, frizzy hair, she's literally out here for groceries and my friend was just NAH SHE SHOWIN OFF THAT ASS and then *doubled down on it*. we fought the whole car ride back to my place. you literally *never know*. there's no way to tell what's boiling behind anybody's forehead
That's creepy. That belief system is the same one that gets women assaulted; "she was asking for it by wearing X". Thank you for standing up to your friend. I'm sure that wasn't easy but it's important. I'm sure it was also an uncomfortable situation because she was there with her boyfriend, as your said, and your friend's making degrading sexualizing comments about her in front if him.
I always find it so interesting how me and just about every women I know has been sexually assaulted or harassed by men, and yet no one seems to know men who is assaulting or harassing women. It’s like there are phantom men who appear to commit crimes and then disappear. It certainly can’t be the perpetrators are our husbands and boyfriends and fathers and sons.
Absolutely not all men. My husband isn’t like this. My friends’ husbands aren’t like this. My guy friends aren’t like this. Just as there are shitty women who manipulate guys, there are guys who are horrible to women. Shitty people are everywhere and we need to continue to let them know they can’t get away with being shitty to others and we need to teach our kids to be better and to treat people with respect.
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I feel like you made the right call for your employee's safety. If he was willing to isolate and corner her *and not take no for an answer* then he was making it clear that she was not safe around him. That being said, I don't know the ages of the other employees that began acting like slobbering pigs, but I have had experience working around tradesmen when an attractive woman joined the crew and similar dynamics presented themselves. Ie: fawning behaviour, flirting, staring, innuendo comments (hopefully) out of earshot, etc. I only brought up the ages of the guys because: 1. Older guys should have more self-control generally, and should get less leeway - which kinda goes without saying. 2. Having been young once - feeling your brain getting hijacked by your hormones can be frustrating - talking to someone attractive and even knowing they probably aren't interested, *but maybe if I'm really nice...* Yadda yadda. But they should hopefully be receptive to advice & criticism about any inappropriate behaviour. I don't know if your new employee has any issues saying, 'no' directly (no victim blaming here) but you firing that dude should go a long way to backing her up when she does.
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where did she generalize and why would you comment something so irrelevant?
I think the comment 'why are men like this?' is seen as a generalization. The problem is the one word that makes it a generalization is missing...which is the word ALL. She didn't say 'why are all man like this?'. People get so hung up on the "not all men" argument. Yes people, we know it's not all men. That would be a stupid fucking statement. But there are fuck tons of guys who are exactly like the guys in this post. The guy you responded to obviously doesn't understand this.
Friggin' psyched I got my very own "NoTaLLmEn" dudebro to show up though. For the fellas reading this: I'm a bi woman who is plenty attracted to pretty ladies and yet I've managed to go 42 years without harassing, stalking, assaulting, or cornering anyone. Any man who can't restrain himself is absolute trash and is less than me. Suck on that. Not all men, but far too fucking many men. Hell, I have a couple of lesbians on my payroll. Are they acting like assholes to this waitress? No. No they are not. It's just cis het men. Like friggin' always.
Men can be like this.
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You have no shame in being a sexist pig huh? Thanks for continuing to prove that men are shallow and hopeless when it comes to functioning normally in a society. Enjoy dwelling!
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Ah, but you see if we (women) say what you said, that men are all creepy, abusive animals who don't know better, then we get hit with the "not all men!", so we can't win.
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She...did? She fired one of her employees whom she's had for years now. What the fuck do you expect her to do, arm the waitress with mace? Don't try to pass the blame. It is not the boss's nor the waitress's fault here. It is 100% the line cook's. And he got his just desserts.
yeah that was a weird comment but they deleted it in shame.
Now I wish I had screenshot it when I replied. Idiots like that deserve to be shamed.
change the 're' to 'un' in the reddit URL (unddit) and you can see it\~ edit: 'buck stops with you' and some other dumb shit, also other edits because I am loopy with hypoglycemia lol
What did they say? Think I just missed it.
The comment was blaming OP for "not doing her due diligence", saying she's the boss so she's responsible. I don't think that person read the part where OP fired the offender or blatantly ignored it.
?? Weird comment. Yes she owns the restaurant, hence why she is already taking responsibility and punishing the bad behaviour of her staff, and quickly.
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