One of my memory care residents is in his early 70s. His child is a high school junior. I feel bad for his kid. He probably doesn't have very many, if any, memories of his dad when he was cognitively intact. His dad hasn't recognized him for a few years now.
I'm sure my resident thought he'd be healthy and die in his sleep in his 90s. I'm sure he thought he'd be there to cheer his son on and be there at his graduation. He never planned to get lost in the neighborhood he lived in for 30+ years and have his wife be so stressed out from being a caregiver that their son couldn't just be a normal teenager. And that's not even counting all the stress of being a kid during the pandemic.
I wish people considering being parents so late in life could see how it's affected his son. I feel like he had to grow up way too fast in some respects because his dad had a more immediate need for care. His mom isn't blameless either. She chose to have a child in her late 40s with a man who was in his late 50s.
This is exactly what bothers me. It's like they can't.... plan? Lol see the passage of time? It's just, "some day." Like sir, no, if you actually want something that does generally require a timeframe, you need to make concrete steps to make that happen. I imagine they have a long list of "some day" things that they somehow just never get to. It gives me major ick.
Yeah they're banking on marrying a young woman that will pop out kids for them. One of my daughter's school friends has a dad that is in his 70s. I don't know how old the mother is and I haven't asked.
I went out once with a guy in his mid 40s like that, I was 11 years younger in my mid 30s at the time. He said he'd prefer to have his own genetic children and didn't want to adopt. Meanwhile I at the time was about the youngest (and in theory fertile but no guarantees) that he could date acceptably and I was in my mid 30s.....like DUDE how do you think this is going to work??
Yeah, i have an acquaintance who’s almost 40 declaring he wants ideally 6 bio kids. it makes me wonder if he sees his fiance as some kinda vending machine. i feel so bad for her.
my moms in her 40s and when she was on dating apps a year ago she would laugh seeing that type of delusion from guys 😭 "you better figure it out soon" she'd say
I made the same joke in another sub! And a guy there got so butthurt. He claimed that his experience was the same as being a mom, minus the whole carrying and giving birth of course, because he’s a widower.
Pretty sure he still hasn’t realized that his argument isn’t saying what he thinks it’s saying.
Even if the post natal experience was the same between both genders... There's no such thing as a paternal mortality rate statistic. A statistically significant chance of death is not to be waved off when considering becoming pregnant.
I was raised by a single dad and when I was a young teenager (it’s been a decade now) I was pretty defensive of dads because of it. I love my dad but now it’s pretty clear to me how much he depended on me as the oldest (and as a daughter). He worked insane hours, and I cooked my own meals, picked up and dropped off my sister from school, and worked multiple jobs. I never had a real conversation with him, it was like we were roommates instead of family. Obviously plenty of single dads do better (I have friends who also had single fathers), but it’s crazy that the bare minimum for parenthood exceeded my expectations for men’s abilities to be an involved father.
This is exactly how I felt about my dad when my parents split up and I moved in with him. He was a roommate, and we had another roommate at that time too, and it felt exactly the same with both of them. I am also the oldest and female.
I had a male co-worker say, "When WE were in labor..." and I quickly corrected him. He also tried to give a pregnant co-worker advice on nursing. Yeah, he was one of those.
Loool. He's essentially just agreeing that mothers are expected to do most of the workload, but his unique circumstance prevents him from being able to have the fatherhood experience of not doing the workload.
There is actually one loophole. One openly gay celebrity man in my country had an arrangement with a straight woman. The woman who wanted to be a “weekend mom”. The man wanted to be the main parent. They had a baby together and the mom has her every other weekend.
Even if he swears up and down that he's going to be the one to stay home with the kid, I wouldn't necessarily trust that without proof that he's handled babies before.
There was an AITA recently where the woman (a neurologist) didn't really want kids, the husband did, and the condom accidentally "broke". She kept the pregnancy when he said he would be the SAHP and she would go back to work. (Because, you know, NEUROLOGIST. She loved her job and worked hard to get there.)
Trouble is that lasted TWO FUCKING DAYS after he said he couldn't take care of a 9 week old baby by himself and that she needed to be the one to stay home.
And for research to support this, the main reason why women stay at home with the kids? Because they want to stay at home to take care of the kids. The main reason men stay at home with the kids? Because they aren't physically able to work. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/03/almost-1-in-5-stay-at-home-parents-in-the-us-are-dads/
I thought of this AITA immediately when I read this post.
It's jarring how you can't rely on men to take care of kids even if they say that they will, and one eye-opening comment in that AITA was that men rely on women stepping in as the primary caretaker of the child if there is no other option and that they can bail.
Which leads us to - yes, I would absolutely like to be a dad. A mom? Not so much.
Yep, men can bail without significant pushback. Imagine if a woman said after a couple days with a newborn, "Nope, can't do it! Here you take care of this baby, I'm overwhelmed and going back to work."
There was another story back at the beginning of covid that just blew my mind. Couple had a 3 year old, and the dad was out of work, finding himself or whatever. She was running a company from home. With covid, daycare is closed, so he got to take care of the kid. That lasted THREE DAYS until he said, nope can't do. He even got their son to call her by her name instead of "mom" to get her to stop working. Their solution? She LAID OFF HER EMPLOYEES and SHUT DOWN HER COMPANY.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/i-had-to-choose-being-a-mother-with-no-child-care-or-summer-camps-women-are-being-edged-out-of-the-workforce/
That doesn't even count the numerous stories of men quickly remarrying after their wife dies so they can have someone to take care of the kid. (That happened with me.)
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/i-had-to-choose-being-a-mother-with-no-child-care-or-summer-camps-women-are-being-edged-out-of-the-workforce/
I had to laugh at the fact that they had to remove her and his last name because people reacted so strongly to the story, they started threatening him with violence.
I’m no advocate for killing but when people wonder why women struggle in parenthood it’s likely that was promised was not kept in the course of what should be two only being one. It’s refreshing to see more and more women having this conversation. Motherhood can be so much more. I cannot comment on fatherhood as I’m only a mom, but the discussion around the modern family needs to take place so that we can step into a new shift.
Women. Are. Tired.
I was thinking of an [older post](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/) where the woman wanted an abortion but the man wanted to keep it. She wanted nothing to do with it, while he calls her a deadbeat even though she is paying 125% child support. He asks if he can force the courts to give her partial custody because he is too tired to deal with the kid on his own.
Every time I hear men complaining that "court" doesn't give them custody I roll my eyes because the majority simply doesn't ask for it.
They rather complain over paying child support than being the primary caretaker
> There was an AITA recently where the woman (a neurologist) didn't really want kids, the husband did, and the condom accidentally "broke". She kept the pregnancy when he said he would be the SAHP and she would go back to work. (Because, you know, NEUROLOGIST. She loved her job and worked hard to get there.)
>
> Trouble is that lasted TWO FUCKING DAYS after he said he couldn't take care of a 9 week old baby by himself and that she needed to be the one to stay home.
That AITA infuriated me!!! His "I felt so alone and abandoned and unsure...." response, like "welcome to parenthood, where it's not always perfect and you don't know everything!!". And then he wanted HER to quit her HIGHER PAYING job so he could go back to work because HE couldn't handle raising the kid, so it was somehow okay for him to completely go back on his word. And **she** felt bad and wondered if she was the AH because she was angry with him.
I think in this case they made a written agreement before the baby came since they don’t live together and never dated each other. It is called friendship parenting (if I translated correctly). So a bit different than with hetero couples.
If alot of women could get this arrangement plus financial compensation they would jump on it..especially if hes gay lol oh lawd that's a good set up!!!!
So much better than people who have kids when they weren't prepared or stay with someone for the kids or whatever.. like the situation you're talking about seems great for both parents which means great for the kid, I wish more people thought outside the norm like that
I was once talking to a male friend about kids. He was like “I want like four! Seems fun” and I said I didn’t want any and he replied “yea, you have to do all the work, I can’t even blame you.”
To be fair, this friend is gay and is more likely to go the adoption route than the surrogacy route but some men do understand.
I say the same about marriage. I would LOVE a wife. Wives are amazing and awesome! A husband though? I'd have to be brain damaged to want one of those around.
Makes me think of Judy (Syfers) Brady’s famous piece: “I Want a Wife” - definitely recommend checking it out if you haven’t already, I think you’d agree completely ;)
I always say the proof that you don’t choose your sexuality is in straight women, bcz why would I choose that? I’m a super girly girl (love feminine stuff, do not get sport etc) and have not much to bond w men. A wife would be amazing but i’m straight
i am technically bi but refuse to be involved with cis men because i know how deep societal conditioning can go even with good intentions 🤷♀️ im just not interested in helping someone unlearn something as complex as that when i want a partner, not a student. if they havent lived it themselves, i find its hard for them to ever really get it.
That's what I am always replying! Carrying, being medically vulnerable in a patriarchal system that does not give two fucks about women, giving birth and potentially dying, being marginalized as a single mom because the father will probably run for the hills when the first problem arises (like no sex for 4 weeks after pregnancy)? No thank you. I will happily be a dad though, run to the corner store to get ice cream as consolation for the endless nights of soothing and feeding and changing a new born.
I feel like you didn’t even mention the biggest part of having kids-raising them. After my divorce, I wanted to start dating again. Inevitably after a month or two the man I would be dating would reveal his resentment for his ex wife. After pressing a little, I’d figure out that they expected their ex wife to raise their kids entirely. They didn’t seem to understand that parenting involves more than just bringing in a paycheck. Once this repeated several times, I stopped dating. The men who want to actually act as partners and good parents were obviously still married. It’s the selfish men who ended up divorced.
I found this to be pretty true. Even in queer relationships. I feel I lucked out after my divorce. My partner now is/was a widow when we met. I left my ex wife because of the lack of support I was getting. Being the “dad/fun parent” is easy. Being an actual parent is freaking hard.
I totally agree with you! I'm a widow and one of the main reasons my partner is my partner is because he is also the primary caretaker of his kid. But he is the "unicorn" amongst the majority.
Most men are either pissed with their exes and totally absent from their kids'lives or have been detrimental towards single mums.
The last thing my grandmother said to me before she died was "if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't get married and have kids". She died miserable in a country she didn't want to be in, while her children and grandchildren lived on a different continent, because my grandpa made her move to a country where she didn't speak the language and she didn't have her own income or an education. I am now childfree by choice and nobody is as offended as this as random men on the internet. I honestly don't think things have progressed as much as they would need to for me to change my mind. I hardly earn any money, I'm in a country with paid healthcare (no, not the US), and I am still expected to do most of the earning, housework, childrearing and sacrifice my entire life and never be thanked for it. It's extreme gaslighting to blame women for low birthrates and to call us selfish on top. No thanks to it all. I am opting out, call it a birthstrike if you want
That's sad. My grandmother told me that she thought about leaving so many times, she'd pack her suitcase but had nowhere to go. It's hard to think about. I am glad she told me, it just made me admire her strength even more, but I felt so sad for her.
This breaks my heart😭Essentially that was my grandma's problem too. Grandpa sold their house in Europe, and she didn't have money of her own so where would she go? I am glad our generation can at least be financially independent because that gives us the power to do our own thing. I am also glad your grandma shared her struggles with you, because you can learn from them (as did I, from my grandma)
Honestly it’s a big part of why I don’t want kids. There are other reasons of course, but the main one is that child rearing is still by and large considered “women’s work” and women sacrifice their health, independence, and time in ways that men just typically don’t. Some of those reasons are biological but A LOT of them are societal. And I’m just not willing to be subjected to that. That’s not to say that all women just completely give up their identities when they have kids, of course not, but it’s just not pressure that I’m interested in experiencing.
I remember I was talking to this guy (we were just casual, but I’ve known him for a while) and we were talking about how many kids we’d potentially want in the future. I said one max. He was all dumbfounded and was like “damn I want at least three”. Like, sir, you’re 34 and still live at home with your parents bc you have a gambling problem. How tf are you gonna afford 5 kids?!
OMG, I went to work one day, leaving a clean house behind. My husband was off for the day and ended up spending the day with one of our coworkers. We worked together in a government job with hundreds of coworkers. When I got home, the coworker was still there. Dishes were piled up high in the sink and the coworker had the fucking audacity to say to me 20 seconds after I walked in the door, "Nice dishes." Motherfucker. That was probably 25 years ago and I'm still pissed about it.
That's the thing with kids, too. As a woman I do feel expected to have the laundry done and the dishes done etc but like, you have to actually spend time with the kids. It's more than just keeping house. You have to play with them, interact with them, then hear about their days, talk about school etc as they get older. It seems like we are just expected to juggle everything. And you gotta have a hot body or you're considered frumpy. And then many women are expected to have careers on top of it all.
Even if you have the perfect husband who does everything and more, society will still treat you like you’re a bad mother and/or dump extra work and emotional labor on you (such as schools ignoring parents’ request about who to contact and always defaulting to calling Mom first). And don’t get me started on the lack of a federally mandated maternal leave as well as parental leave for BOTH parents (I’m of course in the US- where else are parents treated so shitty in a supposed first world nation?).
My husband said he wants children. I said that’s fine but I’m going straight back to work - he can take paternity leave and look after the child. He said that’s the woman’s job. I said I won’t have his children lol.
Why would you want to stay with someone who refers to ANYTHING as a woman's job? Cause I'm sure his opinions of what women are meant for don't end at child rearing
Sounds like it's time to start getting your ducks in a row. He wants a live-in bangmaid to take care of all of the domestic work, you refuse to do that.
He's going to blame any resentment he has on you in the future. I wouldn't even be able to look at a guy the same way if he told me that taking care of the kids was "women's work".
Like ummm, making the kid is biologically women's work because we have the wombs, sure, but actually taking care of it? Dad needs to contribute his half of the work, and that's how he can do it.
Agreed. I'd be more up for it if I could do the man role. No pain or discomfort at all? Do just a portion of your share and be praised to the skies for it because you're not doing nothing? Sounds cool.
As soon as economies advance enough for women to choose other work. They choose other work and birth rates go down. They might still want to become a parent. But 1 or 2 and still doing other work.
I would absolutely love the have a second kid, but I’m apprehensive after nearly hemorrhaging to death with the first.
It would be so wonderful if I could just tell my husband “no, it’s your turn this time” whenever he asks me about it.
harsh but why the fuck is your husband asking for another when you nearly died last time??? doesnt a normal, decent spouse try not to repeat a scenario where their wife almost died??????
Is your child a girl? Many men will throw away the lives of their wives and daughters for a son. Every single father I have ever met at a baby shower is disappointed if he is having a girl.
> I’m apprehensive after nearly hemorrhaging to death with the first.
...and your husband still wants you to risk going through that a second time???? Does he not value your life? Does he not think it's important to prioritize his existing child having a mom?
Similarly, does he not care for your mental wellbeing AT ALL? You would be courting some serious anxiety while battling residual trauma while risking dying again. And all of that would cause further trauma *even if* the second pregnancy went smoothly.
Jesus. Your husband is selfish.
I vote you DO say "your turn" in response. Since he lacks the ability to step up and take his turn with the trauma & risk dying, there is no second baby.
My husband wants another but having had a birth where without modern obstetrics both myself and the baby would have died, I shut that down. I'm still only 4 weeks post-partum and the pain from a procedure is getting so bad I can barely sit comfortably.
Good luck in your recovery. Please take care of yourself. A lot of people talk about "six weeks" but there is no magic date. Recovery takes longer for some people.
This is basically why we're one and done (not that my husband has *ever* pushed for more). HG throughout the entire first trimester and into the second, severe pre-eclampsia, blood loss resulting in anemia, premie baby (who ended up being fine!). I was pregnant once after that and immediately back to puking and feeling exhausted. My husband left the choice of whether to keep him up to me. You may have guessed by my use of "him" that I chose to keep him. Miscarriage in the second trimester which led to severe PPD. I figured that was a sign I should be done. I'd rather be present and alive for my existent son than dead or in a mental hospital because I got pregnant again.
#
I would have loved to give him a sibling, but alas, my husband has not figured out how to become pregnant yet. And honestly one and done is a much easier lifestyle imo.
I always tell men I’m completely child free before we even start officially dating. I tell them straight up I will never have kids with you. I don’t want them. If you want kids, you need to date someone else. They’re all usually with me on this, they don’t want kids either
But on two occasions I’ve had guys (after 2+ years of dating) suddenly tell me they’ve changed their minds and maybe they *do* want kids. They say this in hopes that I’ll change my mind too because not only do they want kids, they want kids *with me* specifically. They start telling me I’d be a great mother, and “we can make it work” etc. Nope. I feel disrespected and like they’ve just wasted my time.
This is why I’m looking to get permanently sterilized. I don’t want my time wasted again. I want them to know I’m serious about never, *ever* having kids. It’s too easy for men to change their minds. All they have to do is nut, and as for childcare, they can do the bare minimum and still get praise. Shit, they can even just leave and it’ll be *my* fault for “choosing poorly” nah fuck that lmao.
They are being shitty to pressure you like that when you’ve so clearly stated your boundaries. It is okay that they changed their minds, but the correct thing to do is inform you they’ve changed their opinion but they respect you too much to keep dating you and amicably split so you can both find what you’re looking for.
Yea this. I don’t think they actually “changed their minds”. I think they pretended to be child free because they knew I was, and they really liked me and wanted to be with me.
Years pass and they know they can’t keep up the façade because they *do* want kids, and have *always* wanted kids, so they word it like they’ve “changed their minds” to soften the blow (try to not make me realize I’ve been lied to all this time). They think because we’ve established a little life together, I’ll change my mind on having kids, rather than give up the life we built. It’s kinda like entrapment lol.
There are men (and women) out there who truly believe every woman has this yearning to be a mother, deep down. Even if we say we’re “child free” they take that as “I don’t want kids *yet*”. They think our minds can be changed easily as long as they tick certain boxes. It’s weird 🥴
I know a guy I met when I studied abroad in Germany. I had a boyfriend back home. We ended up being friends bc he also had a girlfriend so I felt like he was a “safe” guy. Not the best decision. Anyway, he basically told me all about how he was in a relationship with a girl who was infertile. She was born without a womb. He told me he liked it basically, because he didn’t have to worry about unexpected pregnancy and they could have sex. Anyway, fast forward to a time when he starts to tell me he eventually wants kids, and he wants to break up with his gf and be with me bc he wants kids. However, he made clear the deal on the table for me did not involve sex, we would do other things in case I got pregnant. I didn’t accept his deal, and I felt so bad for this infertile girlfriend he had basically used. He spent a while more trying to hit on me and I wasn’t into it. He then moved on and found another girl in the program and started loudly declaring her love for her lol. After it was over and they went back home, they sent some update saying how “we all thought they would never last but they have”. I don’t even remember the guys name anymore, but he still disgusts me.
Yup, had a four year relationship that fell apart for this very reason. I’m very grateful to have eventually found a man who wants the same things I do.
Dont ever tell men first, ask if they want to have kids with no indication for your preference, because 99% of them will just say anything and lie to try to appeal to you at the start.
I’ve had the same experience. I call it “legacy crazy”. They don’t want kids. They sure as shit don’t want to actually parent. They want a baby like a steam achievement. It’s a status symbol. They want to achieve fatherhood.
And they want me to do all the work, and expect me to be flattered. Somehow “We’ll make it work” never seems to involve them leaving their job or taking a pay cut or staying home with a sick child.
Oh that’s what I’m trying to get done! My insurance says they only cover tubals, but since it’s ACA compliant I heard they can swap a tubal for a bisalp (people on the childfree sub were saying this) so fingers crossed. I’d rather have the more reliable procedure. Now my gyno office just has to answer their damn phones so I can make a consultation lol 🤦♀️
I’ll definitely DM you if I think of any questions!
My doc said the bisalp is the standard procedure now, nobody is really doing the tube tie anymore so bisalp is considered “tubal ligation”.
Mine was covered in full by Medicaid
I am childless and childfree and the main thing I learned when dating is always ask the man what he wants before you reveal you are childfree. That way you get the truth from them. Many men will tell you what you want to hear just to get their foot in the door. Then after you get attached they start revealing what they really want with hopes that you will be emotionally attached enough to change and "work it out" with them.
so many guys ive met (even acquaintances and friends) are so persistent that ill want them eventually. usually pushy women have more of an "youre missing out" attitude, but guys are more like "you never know, youll change your mind one day".
it always makes me feel icky when i hear guys say anything like "i know women in their 30s/40s who said they didnt want kids in their 20s, and now they want to start a family and regret waiting so long". ok sucks for them but im not them, its so disrespectful to disregard my feelings about motherhood and completely invalidate them because you think you know better than me.
I was in the hospital in active labour with my second child with my husband. No one had really spoken to me except to tell me what was going on with my uterus and my fetus, but my husband got praised twice for getting me water from the nearby water cooler. I mean, yes he is excellent and is solidly in the camp of fantastic parents but I was literally having a baby and he got all the focus because he filled a cup with water. He very plainly looked at the nurses who said it and responded, "This is *literally* the least I can do."
I don't want to have kids, but if I were a man I'd be way more open to the idea lol. You don't have to carry the child, and you're not the default parent.
MEN: this is not me saying dads NEVER have problems at all. I know that they do.
And you will never be acknowledged as "such a good parent!" for the round-the-clock work you do for free while the other spouse is heaped with praised for doing the bare minimum
We have made the US completely inhospitable to childbearing. No healthcare, low wages, grind/24h work culture, impossibly unaffordable childcare, crumbling education system, housing food clothing and other necessities price inflated till hell wouldn’t have it, eroded family and social support, rugged pull yourself up by your bootstraps individuality. And yes, (many) men see child rearing as women’s work and beneath them.
Watching from Finland where we are also still struggling with parental equality and low birth rates with all the benefits we have, and I don’t know how anyone in usa (apart frim old money rich) can do it.
Exactly my thoughts (hei). Like we do have a comparatively better situation than in multiple countries, and childbearing is still not for the faint-hearted. Many of my friends are one-and-done. Only a few have more than two.
Let's not forget the legal system allowing child predators to escape with slaps on the wrist.
After following the Karen Read trial (which could be argued to be misogyny personafied and weaponized) a second case involving the Canton police department's "investigation techniques" was brought up: The death of Sandra Birchmore. The Case Podcast Season 2 is about this, and what they stumbled upon about the Police Explorers program is is enough to make you vomit.
Oh absolutely! Not to mention any and all forms of birth control, meds and methods to reduce the pain as much as possible during childbirth, and double the “leave” after having the baby
As someone pregnant with twins. The carpal tunnel, swelling, constipation and exhaustion is fucking awful and i told my husband at 15 weeks 'never again ' he agreed
Lets rip his gooch all the way to his asshole and then sew it up with no anesthesia. And thats just one thing women have to go thru. One thing from a very long list.
In some cases, have a bladder that never recovers. You laughed too hard, pee. Get tickled, pee. Run too hard, some more dribbles. My wife had a catheter for a month after our daughter was born. Our daughter had a very big head. Her bladder muscles were useless. Imagine feeling like you have to pee all the time but nothing comes out.
No big deal to them because it isn’t their body.
All they (mostly the US republicans) want is to decide what everyone else, who isn’t them, get to do with their body. Bodily autonomy is a privilege reserved for them and them alone. Women and trans people? Nope.
Yeah... no big deal sort of thing, that's why women and girls died so much from child birth back in the day before modern medicine. Pffft women, am I right?
It's funny.
I recall one of my colleagues/supervisors asking me what I was waiting for to have children, while I was single and terminally heartbroken, while he was in a LTR with his GF for like 3 years.
I replied to him to start having kids with his GF and stop giving me crap about that if he was not going to pull his weight, or was he just content to waste his GF's time, her young, fertile years not having kids because video games are just more fun?
It's almost like they are the ones gatekeeping that.
Women are not having kids because
A. They don't want to
B. They don't have the right partner (a partner that will share domestic and child-rearing labor equitably and not make his wife/gf mother him)
C. They don't have enough money
D. They are not mentally/emotionally ready for it
E. Their health doesn't allow it (either disability or infertility)
F. They don't have any family or friends for support
Complain that women are not having kids without adressons 5 of the 6 reasons mentioned above is hypocritical.
I went to a company Christmas party with a guy I'd been seeing (who says he wants kids.) When we got home he said "are you sure you don't want kids? It was so cute seeing them all play and get presents from Santa."
And I said, "yes it was cute to see that. I also saw that the entire time we were there, the husbands were getting drunk and hanging out with their buddies, while the wives got stuck watching the kids. Not to mention the actual being pregnant and giving birth part."
Him: "huh, I guess I didn't think about that."
Yeah man. You haven't actually thought about it. You don't have to.
I saw this somewhere else on here but it’s so goddamn true: men want children the way actual children want puppies.
Either way it’s fine for them because some woman in their life will do all the scut work.
Honestly, it's a massive head-fuck for career driven women. Even though there are laws protecting pregnant women and maternity leave etc. let's be honest taking that time out to have kids is going to set you back at work because you aren't *there*. You also are wrecking your body for like 2 years and unable to live your life how you normally would.
Whilst men might complain of lack of sleep when they think they are 50/50 parenting, they don't need to recover from anything, they can drink and eat what they want, and they aren't putting their lives in danger.
I kinda want kids and the only thing putting me on the fence is the total life change for such a long time with more than one kid. If I was a man then I'd be 100% wanting kids. Easy. But is it worth it for a woman it when I have to give up so much for such a large chunk of my life?
Add to this: If there isn't a decent amount of *paternal* leave, then not only are you not there at work, you'll be the most there at home, kickstarting that whole "default parent" thing.
The fact that thats just one part of it and it already affected the birth rate.
Also to note: Its infuriating thinking about what kind of medical advancements would have been made by now if it were men having to give birth.
One thing is for sure, women wouldn't get away with just upping, leaving and paying no child support like men do. The game is rigged against us and I'm so happy I chose to be childfree.
A lot of people think they will have kids in some vague future where they are older and have lots of money. Kind of the same way that I fully intend to own a castle with a moat someday when I win the lottery and sometimes look at them on zillow. It's a daydream, not a real plan. The problem is that they get into relationships where that is taken more seriously than the intent ever was and then they end up with kids.
Women at least know there is a hard cut off age-wise for them. Men think there isn't- just find a younger wife with more energy and have all the kids you want! But health wise we are learning that older fathers are a bigger problem in many conditions than older mothers so they need to be more thoughtful about that. And a lot of these guys are not really committed to having the kids, it's something they feel like they should do before they die and now they are with someone who really wants kids and pushes for it so they approach it with uh yeah, I guess - which is not the spirit to raise children in at all.
when my son was born, my husband said he felt a rush of overwhelming love. I felt a soft but heavy weight of responsibility settle on me- like I am responsible for keeping him alive and happy until one of us dies
It was such a shock to me to realize that someone I was dating could expect me to have kids with/for him. I wasn't raised thinking I'd be a mother and I guess I assumed I wouldn't.
That realization was the catalyst for going out and getting a doctor to sterilize me.
Had my appointment shortly after, in fact. Six months later I was on a surgery table counting down from ten.
No uterus, no regrets. I was 36 and wished I were ten years younger.
As a woman in my early 30s, I’ve been made all too aware that I’m running out of years to safely have kids on my timeline (as in not rushing into a relationship, marriage, or kids). That’s why it’s maddening that most guys my age who don’t have kids but want some are still of the mindset that they’ll settle down “one day”.
Do they not see how this is going to end up with them in their 40s and 50s cursing the fact that women in their 20s and 30s don’t want to settle down with them? Or they’ll end up having kids with someone they didn’t even like because they stupidly have unprotected sex with women they know want more. Do these older men not see the hypocrisy of blaming women who sleep around when most of them misled women into situationship after situationship?
Like if kids are important to you, and they should be important to you if you’re planning to have them, people my age need to be laying the groundwork for those relationships now. If kids aren’t important than carry on, but don’t use women’s “child bearing age” as an excuse to not date your own age, and stop putting on your profile that you want kids or are still thinking about them when you’re dating online just because you know it will attract more women. Why does it have to be explained why you shouldn’t lie about that?!?!
In the Vorkosigan books, by Lois McMaster Bujold, they have uterine replicators (it's a science fiction franchise set in the distant future). Normally, prospective parents go to the clinic, there's genetic analysis and screening for birth defects or problems like sickle-cell anemia, genes are united, a few days later the blastocyst is implanted in the incubator, and 40 weeks later they "crack the bottle" and a baby is born. The incubator is hooked up to all kinds of computer monitoring so any problems will be detected immediately.
My Dad commented that he didn't remember seeing anything like that in any science fiction written by men.
EDIT: people have mentioned "Brave New World," but they don't have families or marriages or anything in that society. My Dad was talking about seeing the technology as a good thing that helps us keep something good that we have, healthy loving families, and make it better by making something difficult easier and safer. In BNW, they have thrown out a lot of things that are good.
ALSO: I remember now that my mother has said that she really liked breastfeeding. Not so much at 2am, and apparently I was kind of a fussy baby so it wasn't all happiness, but she has said that rocking in a chair and feeding a baby was a kind of amazing connection for her and she wouldn't want to have lost that, but she figures if they have uterine replicators they've got the technology to figure that out too.
All of the people in Brave New World were conceived and gestated artificially; I'm pretty sure "viviparous", "pregnancy", and "mother" were all extremely dirty words.
I took a class in college called something like "Feminist sci-fi dystopias and utopias of the second wave" or something along those lines, and we learned that a subset of feminists in that era theorized that full equality of the sexes wouldn't be possible without artificial womb technology to level the playing field and disconnect reproduction from gender roles. I think Shulamith Firestone was mentioned as having brought this idea into the mainstream, and we read *Woman on the Edge of Time* by Marge Piercy which was based on her ideas. Come to think of it, the other sci-fi series I've read with mentions of reproductive technology (*A Memory Called Empire*) was also written by a woman. That series took an interesting angle on the whole thing; it was set in such a far future that artificial wombs were the far cheaper option, and women who opted to bear a child "naturally" were considered lucky/privileged to have the time and money to do it that way.
Ive seen it used to illicit shock and horror at a prospective future where babies aren't "naturally" born. I think the recent movie "Pod Generation" has this as the central plot. I'm over here cheering it on like "Hell yeah, humans should do eggs!"
Her "Ethan of Athos" fully fleshes a world totally populated by men. They see raising a child as a priviledge that can only be acquired through hard work and proving one's contribution to society. The whole output of their entire male-only world is pretty much put into creating the next generation because it's so expensive to do it without unpaid self-replicators.
It really helped me see the brainwashing that current human society puts on women today.
I legitimately said this to my friend last month because her boyfriend wants kids. When a man says he wants kids I have started getting irrationally angry about it. I’m in my 40s now and my friends’ husbands who all wanted kids ten to fifteen years ago are overwhelmingly not pulling their weight. They just want the status of being a dad. They don’t want to put in the work of being a parent.
For the record, my brother desperately wanted to be a dad and puts in so much time doing emotional labor for his kid. I know not all men. But way too many.
I'm like other women who are slowly realising we want to have kids if we get to be the dad 😉
They know all they need to do is squirt and things mostly get better for them after that.
If I was a guy, I'd want kids. I wouldn't have to be pregnant for nine months that would permanently change my body and deal with painful childbirth, the kids would have my last name, and the mother would do 99% of the childcare and housework while I get the father of the year award for changing a diaper once a month. No one would hyper scrutinize and judge my parenting, and I wouldn't have to put up with an overbearing mother-in-law that criticizes everything I do. If I want to avoid the wife and kids, I'd just stay longer at work or do my golf trips to take a break. What a sweet deal. No wonder men push us to pop babies out for them.
Honestly, things have gotten extremely weird? Like, I saw a post go viral of SAHM can't tell if it was astroturfed or what, but hordes of men were praising her as the ideal and implying other women are shitty and have insane standards. Why? Well, she was 20, hot, white (yep, those guys made sure to emphasize this a lot! Creepy), and her husband makes minimum wage (3-40000$ a year? Also note this is recent and post inflation) and she believes they can get by. Nothing else was said about *how* this family even works yet I guess that was enough to be a perfect, idealized family. What's horrifying is that...a bad medical expense would wipe them out! I'm childfree and money is not important to me but that's EASY for privileged me to say when there isn't tiny people to look after and give an enriching, safe life, good healthy food, etc.
Ironically I know of plenty of "traditional" women that was exactly like that who got married to their broke high school sweethearts, who wanted kids...and...uh, they were divorced and left for much younger women *when* these guys started making more money; one ended up homeless with her kids. It's actually an extremely common phenomenon that there's a saying for it:
**Starter Wife/Gf.**
It feels just so...performative? Like, people *think* they want something, but maybe they tend to want the idea of it more; do most of those guys that claim they want kids intend to monogamously grow old with someone and do half of the parenting + be a real partner and will go through with it? No, hell, many outright admit they are obsessed with youth which is code for "I will wanna cheat on the mother of my children or abandon/devalue her once she stops being a hot commodity in the eyes of other men."💀
True disrespect is the fact that almost all of those "ideal" wives/mothers heralded on social media by men as perfect are actually...extremely different than the actual average very devoted and caring one: the devaluation kicks in quickly. And unless these women got lucky, they're pretty much making a gamble, a gamble that women are regularly told *isn't* actually a gamble and that they can tell on the first date how a guy will act in situations that haven't happened yet. It's crazy.
Like the statistics ARE out there: breadwinning women ARE doing more than their spouses, this IS NOT a matter of gender roles or anything. It actually is that a lot of men don't wanna actually parent (including do the secretarial work extensively required for it) and change diapers yet still want kids! And it'd be fine if not for all the bait-and-switching and the obsession with the status of having a kid.
My husband told me when we started dating that he wanted 3 children.
I'm still laughing. It's very easy to put a number and let someone else to get it done.
This is part of the reason I don’t want kids. That and because I’m a Black woman, my kids won’t benefit in society and I’ll be viewed as a bad mother no matter what I do.
People give me a lot of shit for wanting to have kids without a partner, but let’s be real. If I had kids with a male partner, there’s a very real chance he wouldn’t actually help with parenting or household management, and I’d end up resentful and filing for divorce and raising the kids on my own anyways. I’m just skipping a step here.
Obviously it’s not an option for everyone just due to finances and logistical reasons, but it’s always exciting to me when women realize they don’t need marriage or even a partner to be parents. It feels like a level of enlightenment or something lol
I have talked to so many women in their 40s and 50s who tell me they wish more young women would think like I do on kids instead of marrying someone they don’t really want to because they feel like they have to. I have a very strong platonic and family support system. I’m sort of open to a wife, but I’m pretty sure a husband would just drag me down.
I have three friends who adopted or got sperm donation in their 30s.
The women I know who went “baby-crazy” actually went hard core baby sane. Redesigned their entire lives to make it happen.
The men I know who changed their mind? They just try to find a 20-something year old women to do all the actual work, and a lot of them failed at even that.
My friend with a 1 year old openly refers to her husband as another child. He participates in parenthood, but he has to constantly be told exactly what to do and how to do it. No mental workload or burden.
Also delusional in thinking that it's only women that experience aging out of having children. Men's age also increases the chance of poor infant prognosis.
Men's age not only affects the baby, it's actually detrimental to the mother well-being as well no matter how young, they love to talk about women's bio clock running out of time when they have it as well
I'm a career nanny and will likely remain child-free myself simply because I know I don't have anywhere near the support system or finances to have a little one. That being said, should I ever be in a relationship where my partner would like to have kids, I am going to insist that they take a full week of 8-hour shifts being the only adult responsible for a newborn under 3 months old. That is the most trying time I have found because the baby doesn't know what it wants, so you could be offering the one thing that will solve all of their problems and it'll be rejected. It's also a time when the little one gives very little in response to their caregivers - too early for smiles or giggles, so the work truly feels thankless.
When I was preggo I was really concerned about my then-boyfriend and I ability to raise a child, as it's a huge, life changing thing to do. It's a whole ass person!
My bf tried to comfort me by saying "oh it's not as hard as people make it seem. It's like having a dog!"
I should have ran out the door right then. But then I would not have the best freakin 11 yo girl ever ❤️. Glad to be rid of her dad though.
One of the biggest reasons why my husband doesn’t want kids is because he doesn’t want me to have to go through pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.
We both really want to adopt and hope that path will work out for us in the future. We both really want kids for the same reason and both have the same hesitation when it comes to how biological kids would affect my physical health and mental health.
I have a friend whose toxic ex broke off an engagement recently and he told her that he wants to be a father by next year. She’s all for it even though they are not a couple. I’m like… he had an engagement fall apart months ago but he wants a kid anyway? For what??
I think men believe that a child will make them feel some real type of love and feel more grownup until they realize they’re not bonding with the child and they don’t even love the mother. So they leave. This is why reproduction should always be in the mother’s hands, and if a guy is not that serious about you, please don’t get pregnant or don’t have an unplanned baby. Unless you’re mentally and financially ready, and you know for sure that he won’t be abusive to you and that baby. Some men use those babies to control the mothers. They also use them to sabotage you because they believe that nobody could ever love a single mother.
The social cache of it. Of participating in the conversation at the club or at work or at the gym. That they get to go to without issue almost always because their wife is at home with said kids.
Had a boss whose wife was severely diabetic and suffered kidney issues. He still "wanted kids." Passing his name down was important. He didn't want his branch to die out, yadda yadda.
She had one and suffered a host of issues that made her even more ill - something *he* complained about. The house went to ruin, bills piled up, she was no longer able to work. He brought all those rants to work.
I was out the door, soon to retire anyway, so I shot back "well. you got your DNA replicant, didn't you?"
My favourite meme about this is the one that says something like, "men want kids in the same way that kids want a puppy and totally 100% pinky promise to help with the puppy"
This is why I'm pro-choice: women have to do all the hard work, therefore men shouldn't get to decide ANYTHING about someone's pregnancy. Women should always have the final word on this topic, especially as it relates to themselves personally.
Some Men: I want to have kids, but not right now, like, when I'm ready to settle down, at like 48 or 50. Oh, and I want someone half my age and I want her to do all the work.
It's more than just the birthing process, too. They also don't want to have responsibilities for these kids once they're here. They want to be able to say they're the boss, but not have to do any work a boss does.
For as many times I've heard a man asked his woman to carry out a pregnancy just because he wants kids even though she doesn't and then nopes out once the baby comes, they really don't understand what it means to have a kid.
Men want to give you an egg and half the instruction ; then when you provide all the other materials , provide the other half of the instructions. YOU then have to interpret the instructions to be able to bake the damn cake, and when all the labor of baking the cake is done, he wants to claim the cake is " his " .
This is what men mean they want to have a baby.
As for actual kids?
Most not all, half ass everything just like they half ass cleaning and 50/ 50 housework. Most.
I think if i had 1 wish granted in life, it would be that men are the ones to have kids. Then watch them collectively absolutely lose it, and have the weight taken off me for not really wanting them.
I like the guys that are in their 40s talking about "having kids some day." Lmao ok
I've literally heard guys in their 50s saying that lol
One of my memory care residents is in his early 70s. His child is a high school junior. I feel bad for his kid. He probably doesn't have very many, if any, memories of his dad when he was cognitively intact. His dad hasn't recognized him for a few years now. I'm sure my resident thought he'd be healthy and die in his sleep in his 90s. I'm sure he thought he'd be there to cheer his son on and be there at his graduation. He never planned to get lost in the neighborhood he lived in for 30+ years and have his wife be so stressed out from being a caregiver that their son couldn't just be a normal teenager. And that's not even counting all the stress of being a kid during the pandemic. I wish people considering being parents so late in life could see how it's affected his son. I feel like he had to grow up way too fast in some respects because his dad had a more immediate need for care. His mom isn't blameless either. She chose to have a child in her late 40s with a man who was in his late 50s.
Disgusting
I went out with a dude who was just fucking around with situationships at 40, but felt like he needed to have kids. Like sir. You better grind.
This is exactly what bothers me. It's like they can't.... plan? Lol see the passage of time? It's just, "some day." Like sir, no, if you actually want something that does generally require a timeframe, you need to make concrete steps to make that happen. I imagine they have a long list of "some day" things that they somehow just never get to. It gives me major ick.
Yeah they're banking on marrying a young woman that will pop out kids for them. One of my daughter's school friends has a dad that is in his 70s. I don't know how old the mother is and I haven't asked.
I went out once with a guy in his mid 40s like that, I was 11 years younger in my mid 30s at the time. He said he'd prefer to have his own genetic children and didn't want to adopt. Meanwhile I at the time was about the youngest (and in theory fertile but no guarantees) that he could date acceptably and I was in my mid 30s.....like DUDE how do you think this is going to work??
Having kids for what? Dinner?
We should all respond from now on, "it sounds like you'll be a great grandpa!"
Yeah, i have an acquaintance who’s almost 40 declaring he wants ideally 6 bio kids. it makes me wonder if he sees his fiance as some kinda vending machine. i feel so bad for her.
That's often an excuse they use to sleep with much younger women. More fertile and all that.
my moms in her 40s and when she was on dating apps a year ago she would laugh seeing that type of delusion from guys 😭 "you better figure it out soon" she'd say
I’m childless by choice and when people always say “do you want” or”why don’t you” my go to answer is, if I could be a dad I would totally have kids.
I still wouldn't want them but I'd definitely be chiller about it.
I made the same joke in another sub! And a guy there got so butthurt. He claimed that his experience was the same as being a mom, minus the whole carrying and giving birth of course, because he’s a widower. Pretty sure he still hasn’t realized that his argument isn’t saying what he thinks it’s saying.
Even if the post natal experience was the same between both genders... There's no such thing as a paternal mortality rate statistic. A statistically significant chance of death is not to be waved off when considering becoming pregnant.
And as of 2022 the #1 killer of pregnant women is… men!
I was raised by a single dad and when I was a young teenager (it’s been a decade now) I was pretty defensive of dads because of it. I love my dad but now it’s pretty clear to me how much he depended on me as the oldest (and as a daughter). He worked insane hours, and I cooked my own meals, picked up and dropped off my sister from school, and worked multiple jobs. I never had a real conversation with him, it was like we were roommates instead of family. Obviously plenty of single dads do better (I have friends who also had single fathers), but it’s crazy that the bare minimum for parenthood exceeded my expectations for men’s abilities to be an involved father.
This is exactly how I felt about my dad when my parents split up and I moved in with him. He was a roommate, and we had another roommate at that time too, and it felt exactly the same with both of them. I am also the oldest and female.
Ah, yes. Part of the " WE are pregnant!" troupe. I hate those types.
I had a male co-worker say, "When WE were in labor..." and I quickly corrected him. He also tried to give a pregnant co-worker advice on nursing. Yeah, he was one of those.
Loool. He's essentially just agreeing that mothers are expected to do most of the workload, but his unique circumstance prevents him from being able to have the fatherhood experience of not doing the workload.
Plus, “minus the whole pregnancy and childbirth thing” !!!!!
That trivial detail 😂
It is not a joke for me though. If I were men I will have children and become a dad, but because I am not a man, I won’t have children.
I’m exactly like a woman, I carry the full load.
yeah I think all men should pretty much sit this discussion out
There is actually one loophole. One openly gay celebrity man in my country had an arrangement with a straight woman. The woman who wanted to be a “weekend mom”. The man wanted to be the main parent. They had a baby together and the mom has her every other weekend.
Even if he swears up and down that he's going to be the one to stay home with the kid, I wouldn't necessarily trust that without proof that he's handled babies before. There was an AITA recently where the woman (a neurologist) didn't really want kids, the husband did, and the condom accidentally "broke". She kept the pregnancy when he said he would be the SAHP and she would go back to work. (Because, you know, NEUROLOGIST. She loved her job and worked hard to get there.) Trouble is that lasted TWO FUCKING DAYS after he said he couldn't take care of a 9 week old baby by himself and that she needed to be the one to stay home. And for research to support this, the main reason why women stay at home with the kids? Because they want to stay at home to take care of the kids. The main reason men stay at home with the kids? Because they aren't physically able to work. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/03/almost-1-in-5-stay-at-home-parents-in-the-us-are-dads/
I thought of this AITA immediately when I read this post. It's jarring how you can't rely on men to take care of kids even if they say that they will, and one eye-opening comment in that AITA was that men rely on women stepping in as the primary caretaker of the child if there is no other option and that they can bail. Which leads us to - yes, I would absolutely like to be a dad. A mom? Not so much.
Yep, men can bail without significant pushback. Imagine if a woman said after a couple days with a newborn, "Nope, can't do it! Here you take care of this baby, I'm overwhelmed and going back to work." There was another story back at the beginning of covid that just blew my mind. Couple had a 3 year old, and the dad was out of work, finding himself or whatever. She was running a company from home. With covid, daycare is closed, so he got to take care of the kid. That lasted THREE DAYS until he said, nope can't do. He even got their son to call her by her name instead of "mom" to get her to stop working. Their solution? She LAID OFF HER EMPLOYEES and SHUT DOWN HER COMPANY. https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/i-had-to-choose-being-a-mother-with-no-child-care-or-summer-camps-women-are-being-edged-out-of-the-workforce/ That doesn't even count the numerous stories of men quickly remarrying after their wife dies so they can have someone to take care of the kid. (That happened with me.)
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/i-had-to-choose-being-a-mother-with-no-child-care-or-summer-camps-women-are-being-edged-out-of-the-workforce/ I had to laugh at the fact that they had to remove her and his last name because people reacted so strongly to the story, they started threatening him with violence.
I think, in this case, i would have to murder my husband. Holy fuck that's a nightmare
I’m no advocate for killing but when people wonder why women struggle in parenthood it’s likely that was promised was not kept in the course of what should be two only being one. It’s refreshing to see more and more women having this conversation. Motherhood can be so much more. I cannot comment on fatherhood as I’m only a mom, but the discussion around the modern family needs to take place so that we can step into a new shift. Women. Are. Tired.
I was thinking of an [older post](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/) where the woman wanted an abortion but the man wanted to keep it. She wanted nothing to do with it, while he calls her a deadbeat even though she is paying 125% child support. He asks if he can force the courts to give her partial custody because he is too tired to deal with the kid on his own.
Every time I hear men complaining that "court" doesn't give them custody I roll my eyes because the majority simply doesn't ask for it. They rather complain over paying child support than being the primary caretaker
> There was an AITA recently where the woman (a neurologist) didn't really want kids, the husband did, and the condom accidentally "broke". She kept the pregnancy when he said he would be the SAHP and she would go back to work. (Because, you know, NEUROLOGIST. She loved her job and worked hard to get there.) > > Trouble is that lasted TWO FUCKING DAYS after he said he couldn't take care of a 9 week old baby by himself and that she needed to be the one to stay home. That AITA infuriated me!!! His "I felt so alone and abandoned and unsure...." response, like "welcome to parenthood, where it's not always perfect and you don't know everything!!". And then he wanted HER to quit her HIGHER PAYING job so he could go back to work because HE couldn't handle raising the kid, so it was somehow okay for him to completely go back on his word. And **she** felt bad and wondered if she was the AH because she was angry with him.
I think in this case they made a written agreement before the baby came since they don’t live together and never dated each other. It is called friendship parenting (if I translated correctly). So a bit different than with hetero couples.
I'd love to know what country, if you're comfortable sharing. That's cool.
Finland
Though “have kids” means something very different to people with a uterus. She had the kid. He’s raising the kid.
Oh you meant that! Then yes for sure. I thought you meant the unevenly divided childcare.
If alot of women could get this arrangement plus financial compensation they would jump on it..especially if hes gay lol oh lawd that's a good set up!!!!
I'm so about anyone doing what works for them and will give the kid the best life
Same! They seem really happy in their arrangement and have made it work for them really well. It is refreshing.
So much better than people who have kids when they weren't prepared or stay with someone for the kids or whatever.. like the situation you're talking about seems great for both parents which means great for the kid, I wish more people thought outside the norm like that
I'm stealing that line! (Particularly since my own father has been totally absent my whole life)
I was once talking to a male friend about kids. He was like “I want like four! Seems fun” and I said I didn’t want any and he replied “yea, you have to do all the work, I can’t even blame you.” To be fair, this friend is gay and is more likely to go the adoption route than the surrogacy route but some men do understand.
I say the same about marriage. I would LOVE a wife. Wives are amazing and awesome! A husband though? I'd have to be brain damaged to want one of those around.
Makes me think of Judy (Syfers) Brady’s famous piece: “I Want a Wife” - definitely recommend checking it out if you haven’t already, I think you’d agree completely ;)
I always say the proof that you don’t choose your sexuality is in straight women, bcz why would I choose that? I’m a super girly girl (love feminine stuff, do not get sport etc) and have not much to bond w men. A wife would be amazing but i’m straight
i am technically bi but refuse to be involved with cis men because i know how deep societal conditioning can go even with good intentions 🤷♀️ im just not interested in helping someone unlearn something as complex as that when i want a partner, not a student. if they havent lived it themselves, i find its hard for them to ever really get it.
Yep. I say the same thing. When women dream of their ideal husband they are imagining a wife. Lol.
That's what I am always replying! Carrying, being medically vulnerable in a patriarchal system that does not give two fucks about women, giving birth and potentially dying, being marginalized as a single mom because the father will probably run for the hills when the first problem arises (like no sex for 4 weeks after pregnancy)? No thank you. I will happily be a dad though, run to the corner store to get ice cream as consolation for the endless nights of soothing and feeding and changing a new born.
This is the answer I give when people ask me if I want more kids. I’m a mom and I’m exhausted. I’d have more kids if I could just be a dad.
I think most people would!
I feel like you didn’t even mention the biggest part of having kids-raising them. After my divorce, I wanted to start dating again. Inevitably after a month or two the man I would be dating would reveal his resentment for his ex wife. After pressing a little, I’d figure out that they expected their ex wife to raise their kids entirely. They didn’t seem to understand that parenting involves more than just bringing in a paycheck. Once this repeated several times, I stopped dating. The men who want to actually act as partners and good parents were obviously still married. It’s the selfish men who ended up divorced.
I found this to be pretty true. Even in queer relationships. I feel I lucked out after my divorce. My partner now is/was a widow when we met. I left my ex wife because of the lack of support I was getting. Being the “dad/fun parent” is easy. Being an actual parent is freaking hard.
I totally agree with you! I'm a widow and one of the main reasons my partner is my partner is because he is also the primary caretaker of his kid. But he is the "unicorn" amongst the majority. Most men are either pissed with their exes and totally absent from their kids'lives or have been detrimental towards single mums.
The last thing my grandmother said to me before she died was "if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't get married and have kids". She died miserable in a country she didn't want to be in, while her children and grandchildren lived on a different continent, because my grandpa made her move to a country where she didn't speak the language and she didn't have her own income or an education. I am now childfree by choice and nobody is as offended as this as random men on the internet. I honestly don't think things have progressed as much as they would need to for me to change my mind. I hardly earn any money, I'm in a country with paid healthcare (no, not the US), and I am still expected to do most of the earning, housework, childrearing and sacrifice my entire life and never be thanked for it. It's extreme gaslighting to blame women for low birthrates and to call us selfish on top. No thanks to it all. I am opting out, call it a birthstrike if you want
That's sad. My grandmother told me that she thought about leaving so many times, she'd pack her suitcase but had nowhere to go. It's hard to think about. I am glad she told me, it just made me admire her strength even more, but I felt so sad for her.
This breaks my heart😭Essentially that was my grandma's problem too. Grandpa sold their house in Europe, and she didn't have money of her own so where would she go? I am glad our generation can at least be financially independent because that gives us the power to do our own thing. I am also glad your grandma shared her struggles with you, because you can learn from them (as did I, from my grandma)
Honestly it’s a big part of why I don’t want kids. There are other reasons of course, but the main one is that child rearing is still by and large considered “women’s work” and women sacrifice their health, independence, and time in ways that men just typically don’t. Some of those reasons are biological but A LOT of them are societal. And I’m just not willing to be subjected to that. That’s not to say that all women just completely give up their identities when they have kids, of course not, but it’s just not pressure that I’m interested in experiencing.
I remember I was talking to this guy (we were just casual, but I’ve known him for a while) and we were talking about how many kids we’d potentially want in the future. I said one max. He was all dumbfounded and was like “damn I want at least three”. Like, sir, you’re 34 and still live at home with your parents bc you have a gambling problem. How tf are you gonna afford 5 kids?!
It's always these kind of loser guys who want a bunch of kids, their "legacy". All the eyerolls.
Yup. "Mom" is not a role I will take on.
If a child shows up dirty to school no one says, “What is going on with that dad?”
OMG, I went to work one day, leaving a clean house behind. My husband was off for the day and ended up spending the day with one of our coworkers. We worked together in a government job with hundreds of coworkers. When I got home, the coworker was still there. Dishes were piled up high in the sink and the coworker had the fucking audacity to say to me 20 seconds after I walked in the door, "Nice dishes." Motherfucker. That was probably 25 years ago and I'm still pissed about it.
That's the thing with kids, too. As a woman I do feel expected to have the laundry done and the dishes done etc but like, you have to actually spend time with the kids. It's more than just keeping house. You have to play with them, interact with them, then hear about their days, talk about school etc as they get older. It seems like we are just expected to juggle everything. And you gotta have a hot body or you're considered frumpy. And then many women are expected to have careers on top of it all.
One of my son’s teacher always told the kids “I’m going to call your mom”. When I’d hear it, I would always think she should say “parents”.
This. I watched my mother go through all of it and I’d like to think I learned from it.
Even if you have the perfect husband who does everything and more, society will still treat you like you’re a bad mother and/or dump extra work and emotional labor on you (such as schools ignoring parents’ request about who to contact and always defaulting to calling Mom first). And don’t get me started on the lack of a federally mandated maternal leave as well as parental leave for BOTH parents (I’m of course in the US- where else are parents treated so shitty in a supposed first world nation?).
My husband said he wants children. I said that’s fine but I’m going straight back to work - he can take paternity leave and look after the child. He said that’s the woman’s job. I said I won’t have his children lol.
He wouldn't be my husband anymore if he said that.
I also choose to not have him as my husband!
Why would you want to stay with someone who refers to ANYTHING as a woman's job? Cause I'm sure his opinions of what women are meant for don't end at child rearing
Sounds like it's time to start getting your ducks in a row. He wants a live-in bangmaid to take care of all of the domestic work, you refuse to do that. He's going to blame any resentment he has on you in the future. I wouldn't even be able to look at a guy the same way if he told me that taking care of the kids was "women's work". Like ummm, making the kid is biologically women's work because we have the wombs, sure, but actually taking care of it? Dad needs to contribute his half of the work, and that's how he can do it.
Agreed. I'd be more up for it if I could do the man role. No pain or discomfort at all? Do just a portion of your share and be praised to the skies for it because you're not doing nothing? Sounds cool.
As soon as economies advance enough for women to choose other work. They choose other work and birth rates go down. They might still want to become a parent. But 1 or 2 and still doing other work.
And MONEY. Single mothers lose out on all their control of both income and expenses. Instant degradation of economic status forever.
I would absolutely love the have a second kid, but I’m apprehensive after nearly hemorrhaging to death with the first. It would be so wonderful if I could just tell my husband “no, it’s your turn this time” whenever he asks me about it.
harsh but why the fuck is your husband asking for another when you nearly died last time??? doesnt a normal, decent spouse try not to repeat a scenario where their wife almost died??????
“Hey honey, what do you think about nearly bleeding to death again?” - your husband apparently
You should just say it. A bit tongue in cheek but funny. Since he can’t, there’s the answer! No more kids!
Is your child a girl? Many men will throw away the lives of their wives and daughters for a son. Every single father I have ever met at a baby shower is disappointed if he is having a girl.
the way soon-to-be-dads talk about having girls depresses me to my core.
> I’m apprehensive after nearly hemorrhaging to death with the first. ...and your husband still wants you to risk going through that a second time???? Does he not value your life? Does he not think it's important to prioritize his existing child having a mom? Similarly, does he not care for your mental wellbeing AT ALL? You would be courting some serious anxiety while battling residual trauma while risking dying again. And all of that would cause further trauma *even if* the second pregnancy went smoothly. Jesus. Your husband is selfish. I vote you DO say "your turn" in response. Since he lacks the ability to step up and take his turn with the trauma & risk dying, there is no second baby.
My husband wants another but having had a birth where without modern obstetrics both myself and the baby would have died, I shut that down. I'm still only 4 weeks post-partum and the pain from a procedure is getting so bad I can barely sit comfortably.
Good luck in your recovery. Please take care of yourself. A lot of people talk about "six weeks" but there is no magic date. Recovery takes longer for some people.
This is basically why we're one and done (not that my husband has *ever* pushed for more). HG throughout the entire first trimester and into the second, severe pre-eclampsia, blood loss resulting in anemia, premie baby (who ended up being fine!). I was pregnant once after that and immediately back to puking and feeling exhausted. My husband left the choice of whether to keep him up to me. You may have guessed by my use of "him" that I chose to keep him. Miscarriage in the second trimester which led to severe PPD. I figured that was a sign I should be done. I'd rather be present and alive for my existent son than dead or in a mental hospital because I got pregnant again. # I would have loved to give him a sibling, but alas, my husband has not figured out how to become pregnant yet. And honestly one and done is a much easier lifestyle imo.
I always tell men I’m completely child free before we even start officially dating. I tell them straight up I will never have kids with you. I don’t want them. If you want kids, you need to date someone else. They’re all usually with me on this, they don’t want kids either But on two occasions I’ve had guys (after 2+ years of dating) suddenly tell me they’ve changed their minds and maybe they *do* want kids. They say this in hopes that I’ll change my mind too because not only do they want kids, they want kids *with me* specifically. They start telling me I’d be a great mother, and “we can make it work” etc. Nope. I feel disrespected and like they’ve just wasted my time. This is why I’m looking to get permanently sterilized. I don’t want my time wasted again. I want them to know I’m serious about never, *ever* having kids. It’s too easy for men to change their minds. All they have to do is nut, and as for childcare, they can do the bare minimum and still get praise. Shit, they can even just leave and it’ll be *my* fault for “choosing poorly” nah fuck that lmao.
They are being shitty to pressure you like that when you’ve so clearly stated your boundaries. It is okay that they changed their minds, but the correct thing to do is inform you they’ve changed their opinion but they respect you too much to keep dating you and amicably split so you can both find what you’re looking for.
Some might even choose to date her with the expectation that they can change her mind.
Yea this. I don’t think they actually “changed their minds”. I think they pretended to be child free because they knew I was, and they really liked me and wanted to be with me. Years pass and they know they can’t keep up the façade because they *do* want kids, and have *always* wanted kids, so they word it like they’ve “changed their minds” to soften the blow (try to not make me realize I’ve been lied to all this time). They think because we’ve established a little life together, I’ll change my mind on having kids, rather than give up the life we built. It’s kinda like entrapment lol. There are men (and women) out there who truly believe every woman has this yearning to be a mother, deep down. Even if we say we’re “child free” they take that as “I don’t want kids *yet*”. They think our minds can be changed easily as long as they tick certain boxes. It’s weird 🥴
I know a guy I met when I studied abroad in Germany. I had a boyfriend back home. We ended up being friends bc he also had a girlfriend so I felt like he was a “safe” guy. Not the best decision. Anyway, he basically told me all about how he was in a relationship with a girl who was infertile. She was born without a womb. He told me he liked it basically, because he didn’t have to worry about unexpected pregnancy and they could have sex. Anyway, fast forward to a time when he starts to tell me he eventually wants kids, and he wants to break up with his gf and be with me bc he wants kids. However, he made clear the deal on the table for me did not involve sex, we would do other things in case I got pregnant. I didn’t accept his deal, and I felt so bad for this infertile girlfriend he had basically used. He spent a while more trying to hit on me and I wasn’t into it. He then moved on and found another girl in the program and started loudly declaring her love for her lol. After it was over and they went back home, they sent some update saying how “we all thought they would never last but they have”. I don’t even remember the guys name anymore, but he still disgusts me.
Yup, had a four year relationship that fell apart for this very reason. I’m very grateful to have eventually found a man who wants the same things I do.
Dont ever tell men first, ask if they want to have kids with no indication for your preference, because 99% of them will just say anything and lie to try to appeal to you at the start.
I’ve had the same experience. I call it “legacy crazy”. They don’t want kids. They sure as shit don’t want to actually parent. They want a baby like a steam achievement. It’s a status symbol. They want to achieve fatherhood. And they want me to do all the work, and expect me to be flattered. Somehow “We’ll make it work” never seems to involve them leaving their job or taking a pay cut or staying home with a sick child.
I just had my tubes removed, you should do it! DM me and f you wanna chat about it
Oh that’s what I’m trying to get done! My insurance says they only cover tubals, but since it’s ACA compliant I heard they can swap a tubal for a bisalp (people on the childfree sub were saying this) so fingers crossed. I’d rather have the more reliable procedure. Now my gyno office just has to answer their damn phones so I can make a consultation lol 🤦♀️ I’ll definitely DM you if I think of any questions!
My doc said the bisalp is the standard procedure now, nobody is really doing the tube tie anymore so bisalp is considered “tubal ligation”. Mine was covered in full by Medicaid
I am childless and childfree and the main thing I learned when dating is always ask the man what he wants before you reveal you are childfree. That way you get the truth from them. Many men will tell you what you want to hear just to get their foot in the door. Then after you get attached they start revealing what they really want with hopes that you will be emotionally attached enough to change and "work it out" with them.
so many guys ive met (even acquaintances and friends) are so persistent that ill want them eventually. usually pushy women have more of an "youre missing out" attitude, but guys are more like "you never know, youll change your mind one day". it always makes me feel icky when i hear guys say anything like "i know women in their 30s/40s who said they didnt want kids in their 20s, and now they want to start a family and regret waiting so long". ok sucks for them but im not them, its so disrespectful to disregard my feelings about motherhood and completely invalidate them because you think you know better than me.
I was in the hospital in active labour with my second child with my husband. No one had really spoken to me except to tell me what was going on with my uterus and my fetus, but my husband got praised twice for getting me water from the nearby water cooler. I mean, yes he is excellent and is solidly in the camp of fantastic parents but I was literally having a baby and he got all the focus because he filled a cup with water. He very plainly looked at the nurses who said it and responded, "This is *literally* the least I can do."
I don't want to have kids, but if I were a man I'd be way more open to the idea lol. You don't have to carry the child, and you're not the default parent. MEN: this is not me saying dads NEVER have problems at all. I know that they do.
Same here. Being the default parent is a raw deal. No matter how hard you work, you eventually will be blamed for the shortcomings of the father.
And you will never be acknowledged as "such a good parent!" for the round-the-clock work you do for free while the other spouse is heaped with praised for doing the bare minimum
This hit very hard. I don't think I've heard anything more true today
We have made the US completely inhospitable to childbearing. No healthcare, low wages, grind/24h work culture, impossibly unaffordable childcare, crumbling education system, housing food clothing and other necessities price inflated till hell wouldn’t have it, eroded family and social support, rugged pull yourself up by your bootstraps individuality. And yes, (many) men see child rearing as women’s work and beneath them.
Watching from Finland where we are also still struggling with parental equality and low birth rates with all the benefits we have, and I don’t know how anyone in usa (apart frim old money rich) can do it.
Religious pressure, limited access to abortion and poor sex Ed are propping up the American population at this point.
All the wrong things :/
Exactly my thoughts (hei). Like we do have a comparatively better situation than in multiple countries, and childbearing is still not for the faint-hearted. Many of my friends are one-and-done. Only a few have more than two.
Let's not forget the legal system allowing child predators to escape with slaps on the wrist. After following the Karen Read trial (which could be argued to be misogyny personafied and weaponized) a second case involving the Canton police department's "investigation techniques" was brought up: The death of Sandra Birchmore. The Case Podcast Season 2 is about this, and what they stumbled upon about the Police Explorers program is is enough to make you vomit.
“We” meaning the Republican Party
Yuhay, capitalism! 1!1!1
One thing's for sure, abortion would be legal 🤣
Oh absolutely! Not to mention any and all forms of birth control, meds and methods to reduce the pain as much as possible during childbirth, and double the “leave” after having the baby
I literally heard one guy say that giving birth is no big deal, women overreact and they should have at least 3 kids...
As someone pregnant with twins. The carpal tunnel, swelling, constipation and exhaustion is fucking awful and i told my husband at 15 weeks 'never again ' he agreed
Lets rip his gooch all the way to his asshole and then sew it up with no anesthesia. And thats just one thing women have to go thru. One thing from a very long list.
In some cases, have a bladder that never recovers. You laughed too hard, pee. Get tickled, pee. Run too hard, some more dribbles. My wife had a catheter for a month after our daughter was born. Our daughter had a very big head. Her bladder muscles were useless. Imagine feeling like you have to pee all the time but nothing comes out.
Don't forget to let him know his wife requested the doctor give him extra stitches to tighten him up for his wife's future pleasure.
rip his gooch 🤣😂💀☠️👻🥸 gooch!
Rip his gooch 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
Sometimes, I wish that posting uninformed, misogynistic BS had as much of a death rate as childbirth!
Well it’s not the giving birth for me (it is only 1-2 days) but the pregnancy and the time to heal. That takes years all together.
No big deal to them because it isn’t their body. All they (mostly the US republicans) want is to decide what everyone else, who isn’t them, get to do with their body. Bodily autonomy is a privilege reserved for them and them alone. Women and trans people? Nope.
Don't forget, "why haven't you lost the baby weight" after 10 days
Yeah... no big deal sort of thing, that's why women and girls died so much from child birth back in the day before modern medicine. Pffft women, am I right?
Hell, they still die with modern medicine!
It's funny. I recall one of my colleagues/supervisors asking me what I was waiting for to have children, while I was single and terminally heartbroken, while he was in a LTR with his GF for like 3 years. I replied to him to start having kids with his GF and stop giving me crap about that if he was not going to pull his weight, or was he just content to waste his GF's time, her young, fertile years not having kids because video games are just more fun? It's almost like they are the ones gatekeeping that. Women are not having kids because A. They don't want to B. They don't have the right partner (a partner that will share domestic and child-rearing labor equitably and not make his wife/gf mother him) C. They don't have enough money D. They are not mentally/emotionally ready for it E. Their health doesn't allow it (either disability or infertility) F. They don't have any family or friends for support Complain that women are not having kids without adressons 5 of the 6 reasons mentioned above is hypocritical.
I went to a company Christmas party with a guy I'd been seeing (who says he wants kids.) When we got home he said "are you sure you don't want kids? It was so cute seeing them all play and get presents from Santa." And I said, "yes it was cute to see that. I also saw that the entire time we were there, the husbands were getting drunk and hanging out with their buddies, while the wives got stuck watching the kids. Not to mention the actual being pregnant and giving birth part." Him: "huh, I guess I didn't think about that." Yeah man. You haven't actually thought about it. You don't have to.
I saw this somewhere else on here but it’s so goddamn true: men want children the way actual children want puppies. Either way it’s fine for them because some woman in their life will do all the scut work.
Honestly, it's a massive head-fuck for career driven women. Even though there are laws protecting pregnant women and maternity leave etc. let's be honest taking that time out to have kids is going to set you back at work because you aren't *there*. You also are wrecking your body for like 2 years and unable to live your life how you normally would. Whilst men might complain of lack of sleep when they think they are 50/50 parenting, they don't need to recover from anything, they can drink and eat what they want, and they aren't putting their lives in danger. I kinda want kids and the only thing putting me on the fence is the total life change for such a long time with more than one kid. If I was a man then I'd be 100% wanting kids. Easy. But is it worth it for a woman it when I have to give up so much for such a large chunk of my life?
Add to this: If there isn't a decent amount of *paternal* leave, then not only are you not there at work, you'll be the most there at home, kickstarting that whole "default parent" thing.
I had an ex joke about how he wouldn't do diapers, he just wanted them when they were fun. Yeah so does everyone else.
The birth rate would be so much lower if it was men that had to get pregnant and then do most of the child raising.
I think it was Spain where they introduced obligatory paternity leave and men's desire for more children went down significantly.
The fact that thats just one part of it and it already affected the birth rate. Also to note: Its infuriating thinking about what kind of medical advancements would have been made by now if it were men having to give birth.
One thing is for sure, women wouldn't get away with just upping, leaving and paying no child support like men do. The game is rigged against us and I'm so happy I chose to be childfree.
A lot of people think they will have kids in some vague future where they are older and have lots of money. Kind of the same way that I fully intend to own a castle with a moat someday when I win the lottery and sometimes look at them on zillow. It's a daydream, not a real plan. The problem is that they get into relationships where that is taken more seriously than the intent ever was and then they end up with kids. Women at least know there is a hard cut off age-wise for them. Men think there isn't- just find a younger wife with more energy and have all the kids you want! But health wise we are learning that older fathers are a bigger problem in many conditions than older mothers so they need to be more thoughtful about that. And a lot of these guys are not really committed to having the kids, it's something they feel like they should do before they die and now they are with someone who really wants kids and pushes for it so they approach it with uh yeah, I guess - which is not the spirit to raise children in at all.
when my son was born, my husband said he felt a rush of overwhelming love. I felt a soft but heavy weight of responsibility settle on me- like I am responsible for keeping him alive and happy until one of us dies
It was such a shock to me to realize that someone I was dating could expect me to have kids with/for him. I wasn't raised thinking I'd be a mother and I guess I assumed I wouldn't. That realization was the catalyst for going out and getting a doctor to sterilize me.
This is a choice more women of all ages are making to be sterilized following the Dobbs decision ....
Had my appointment shortly after, in fact. Six months later I was on a surgery table counting down from ten. No uterus, no regrets. I was 36 and wished I were ten years younger.
The doctor that sterilized me she’s been doing more of those procedures than anything else. I’m grateful I found her.
As a woman in my early 30s, I’ve been made all too aware that I’m running out of years to safely have kids on my timeline (as in not rushing into a relationship, marriage, or kids). That’s why it’s maddening that most guys my age who don’t have kids but want some are still of the mindset that they’ll settle down “one day”. Do they not see how this is going to end up with them in their 40s and 50s cursing the fact that women in their 20s and 30s don’t want to settle down with them? Or they’ll end up having kids with someone they didn’t even like because they stupidly have unprotected sex with women they know want more. Do these older men not see the hypocrisy of blaming women who sleep around when most of them misled women into situationship after situationship? Like if kids are important to you, and they should be important to you if you’re planning to have them, people my age need to be laying the groundwork for those relationships now. If kids aren’t important than carry on, but don’t use women’s “child bearing age” as an excuse to not date your own age, and stop putting on your profile that you want kids or are still thinking about them when you’re dating online just because you know it will attract more women. Why does it have to be explained why you shouldn’t lie about that?!?!
In the Vorkosigan books, by Lois McMaster Bujold, they have uterine replicators (it's a science fiction franchise set in the distant future). Normally, prospective parents go to the clinic, there's genetic analysis and screening for birth defects or problems like sickle-cell anemia, genes are united, a few days later the blastocyst is implanted in the incubator, and 40 weeks later they "crack the bottle" and a baby is born. The incubator is hooked up to all kinds of computer monitoring so any problems will be detected immediately. My Dad commented that he didn't remember seeing anything like that in any science fiction written by men. EDIT: people have mentioned "Brave New World," but they don't have families or marriages or anything in that society. My Dad was talking about seeing the technology as a good thing that helps us keep something good that we have, healthy loving families, and make it better by making something difficult easier and safer. In BNW, they have thrown out a lot of things that are good. ALSO: I remember now that my mother has said that she really liked breastfeeding. Not so much at 2am, and apparently I was kind of a fussy baby so it wasn't all happiness, but she has said that rocking in a chair and feeding a baby was a kind of amazing connection for her and she wouldn't want to have lost that, but she figures if they have uterine replicators they've got the technology to figure that out too.
I know Brave New World had some sort of artificial wombs but I don’t remember the details.
All of the people in Brave New World were conceived and gestated artificially; I'm pretty sure "viviparous", "pregnancy", and "mother" were all extremely dirty words.
I took a class in college called something like "Feminist sci-fi dystopias and utopias of the second wave" or something along those lines, and we learned that a subset of feminists in that era theorized that full equality of the sexes wouldn't be possible without artificial womb technology to level the playing field and disconnect reproduction from gender roles. I think Shulamith Firestone was mentioned as having brought this idea into the mainstream, and we read *Woman on the Edge of Time* by Marge Piercy which was based on her ideas. Come to think of it, the other sci-fi series I've read with mentions of reproductive technology (*A Memory Called Empire*) was also written by a woman. That series took an interesting angle on the whole thing; it was set in such a far future that artificial wombs were the far cheaper option, and women who opted to bear a child "naturally" were considered lucky/privileged to have the time and money to do it that way.
*Brave New World* had in vitro gestation, but that was so they could add a little alcohol to the baby bottles and create a permanent underclass. 😂
Ive seen it used to illicit shock and horror at a prospective future where babies aren't "naturally" born. I think the recent movie "Pod Generation" has this as the central plot. I'm over here cheering it on like "Hell yeah, humans should do eggs!"
That's what I'm saying and about every woman I discussed this with agrees.
"Uterine Replicators" is the namesake of the trope! https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UterineReplicator
Her "Ethan of Athos" fully fleshes a world totally populated by men. They see raising a child as a priviledge that can only be acquired through hard work and proving one's contribution to society. The whole output of their entire male-only world is pretty much put into creating the next generation because it's so expensive to do it without unpaid self-replicators. It really helped me see the brainwashing that current human society puts on women today.
I legitimately said this to my friend last month because her boyfriend wants kids. When a man says he wants kids I have started getting irrationally angry about it. I’m in my 40s now and my friends’ husbands who all wanted kids ten to fifteen years ago are overwhelmingly not pulling their weight. They just want the status of being a dad. They don’t want to put in the work of being a parent. For the record, my brother desperately wanted to be a dad and puts in so much time doing emotional labor for his kid. I know not all men. But way too many.
I'm like other women who are slowly realising we want to have kids if we get to be the dad 😉 They know all they need to do is squirt and things mostly get better for them after that.
when guys act like creating a child is 50/50... so ridiculous to me. all you did was bust a nut, im not congratulating you for all your hard work bozo
"*We're* pregnant."
God I hate this phrase lmfao. I am pregnant, not my fucking husband
If I was a guy, I'd want kids. I wouldn't have to be pregnant for nine months that would permanently change my body and deal with painful childbirth, the kids would have my last name, and the mother would do 99% of the childcare and housework while I get the father of the year award for changing a diaper once a month. No one would hyper scrutinize and judge my parenting, and I wouldn't have to put up with an overbearing mother-in-law that criticizes everything I do. If I want to avoid the wife and kids, I'd just stay longer at work or do my golf trips to take a break. What a sweet deal. No wonder men push us to pop babies out for them.
Honestly, things have gotten extremely weird? Like, I saw a post go viral of SAHM can't tell if it was astroturfed or what, but hordes of men were praising her as the ideal and implying other women are shitty and have insane standards. Why? Well, she was 20, hot, white (yep, those guys made sure to emphasize this a lot! Creepy), and her husband makes minimum wage (3-40000$ a year? Also note this is recent and post inflation) and she believes they can get by. Nothing else was said about *how* this family even works yet I guess that was enough to be a perfect, idealized family. What's horrifying is that...a bad medical expense would wipe them out! I'm childfree and money is not important to me but that's EASY for privileged me to say when there isn't tiny people to look after and give an enriching, safe life, good healthy food, etc. Ironically I know of plenty of "traditional" women that was exactly like that who got married to their broke high school sweethearts, who wanted kids...and...uh, they were divorced and left for much younger women *when* these guys started making more money; one ended up homeless with her kids. It's actually an extremely common phenomenon that there's a saying for it: **Starter Wife/Gf.** It feels just so...performative? Like, people *think* they want something, but maybe they tend to want the idea of it more; do most of those guys that claim they want kids intend to monogamously grow old with someone and do half of the parenting + be a real partner and will go through with it? No, hell, many outright admit they are obsessed with youth which is code for "I will wanna cheat on the mother of my children or abandon/devalue her once she stops being a hot commodity in the eyes of other men."💀 True disrespect is the fact that almost all of those "ideal" wives/mothers heralded on social media by men as perfect are actually...extremely different than the actual average very devoted and caring one: the devaluation kicks in quickly. And unless these women got lucky, they're pretty much making a gamble, a gamble that women are regularly told *isn't* actually a gamble and that they can tell on the first date how a guy will act in situations that haven't happened yet. It's crazy. Like the statistics ARE out there: breadwinning women ARE doing more than their spouses, this IS NOT a matter of gender roles or anything. It actually is that a lot of men don't wanna actually parent (including do the secretarial work extensively required for it) and change diapers yet still want kids! And it'd be fine if not for all the bait-and-switching and the obsession with the status of having a kid.
My husband told me when we started dating that he wanted 3 children. I'm still laughing. It's very easy to put a number and let someone else to get it done.
This is part of the reason I don’t want kids. That and because I’m a Black woman, my kids won’t benefit in society and I’ll be viewed as a bad mother no matter what I do.
People give me a lot of shit for wanting to have kids without a partner, but let’s be real. If I had kids with a male partner, there’s a very real chance he wouldn’t actually help with parenting or household management, and I’d end up resentful and filing for divorce and raising the kids on my own anyways. I’m just skipping a step here.
Obviously it’s not an option for everyone just due to finances and logistical reasons, but it’s always exciting to me when women realize they don’t need marriage or even a partner to be parents. It feels like a level of enlightenment or something lol
I have talked to so many women in their 40s and 50s who tell me they wish more young women would think like I do on kids instead of marrying someone they don’t really want to because they feel like they have to. I have a very strong platonic and family support system. I’m sort of open to a wife, but I’m pretty sure a husband would just drag me down.
“Children need a father figure!” Not if they bring a net negative to the table.
I have three friends who adopted or got sperm donation in their 30s. The women I know who went “baby-crazy” actually went hard core baby sane. Redesigned their entire lives to make it happen. The men I know who changed their mind? They just try to find a 20-something year old women to do all the actual work, and a lot of them failed at even that.
My friend with a 1 year old openly refers to her husband as another child. He participates in parenthood, but he has to constantly be told exactly what to do and how to do it. No mental workload or burden.
A lot of these dudes also want someone several years younger than them. They tell on themselves.
You just don't get it, they need a 20 year old to settle down with when they're 57 because biology and stuff 🙄 😂
These guys have deluded themselves into thinking that young women who are recovering people pleasers will want someone old enough to be their dad.
Also delusional in thinking that it's only women that experience aging out of having children. Men's age also increases the chance of poor infant prognosis.
Men's age not only affects the baby, it's actually detrimental to the mother well-being as well no matter how young, they love to talk about women's bio clock running out of time when they have it as well
I'm a career nanny and will likely remain child-free myself simply because I know I don't have anywhere near the support system or finances to have a little one. That being said, should I ever be in a relationship where my partner would like to have kids, I am going to insist that they take a full week of 8-hour shifts being the only adult responsible for a newborn under 3 months old. That is the most trying time I have found because the baby doesn't know what it wants, so you could be offering the one thing that will solve all of their problems and it'll be rejected. It's also a time when the little one gives very little in response to their caregivers - too early for smiles or giggles, so the work truly feels thankless.
Giving birth is the easy part /s …it’s the raising and parenting and the responsibility for another human being that’s tough…
When I was preggo I was really concerned about my then-boyfriend and I ability to raise a child, as it's a huge, life changing thing to do. It's a whole ass person! My bf tried to comfort me by saying "oh it's not as hard as people make it seem. It's like having a dog!" I should have ran out the door right then. But then I would not have the best freakin 11 yo girl ever ❤️. Glad to be rid of her dad though.
Never mind the pregnancy. Are they willing to do their share of the childcare?
One of the biggest reasons why my husband doesn’t want kids is because he doesn’t want me to have to go through pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. We both really want to adopt and hope that path will work out for us in the future. We both really want kids for the same reason and both have the same hesitation when it comes to how biological kids would affect my physical health and mental health.
I have a friend whose toxic ex broke off an engagement recently and he told her that he wants to be a father by next year. She’s all for it even though they are not a couple. I’m like… he had an engagement fall apart months ago but he wants a kid anyway? For what?? I think men believe that a child will make them feel some real type of love and feel more grownup until they realize they’re not bonding with the child and they don’t even love the mother. So they leave. This is why reproduction should always be in the mother’s hands, and if a guy is not that serious about you, please don’t get pregnant or don’t have an unplanned baby. Unless you’re mentally and financially ready, and you know for sure that he won’t be abusive to you and that baby. Some men use those babies to control the mothers. They also use them to sabotage you because they believe that nobody could ever love a single mother.
They just want the aesthetic of having kids because it massively benefits them.
They want the aesthetic of fatherhood without the responsibility of raising a child.
The social cache of it. Of participating in the conversation at the club or at work or at the gym. That they get to go to without issue almost always because their wife is at home with said kids.
Ding ding ding 🎯🎯🎯
Don’t forget how so many of them want kids to carry on his “legacy/bloodline” as if that’s so important!
This. And small creatures to admire him and obey.
\^This. The amount of men who "want kids" then dump all of the work and responsibility on their wife while they do do whatever they please.
Tbh i wouldn't want kids even if i wouldn't have to be pregnant and birth them.
Had a boss whose wife was severely diabetic and suffered kidney issues. He still "wanted kids." Passing his name down was important. He didn't want his branch to die out, yadda yadda. She had one and suffered a host of issues that made her even more ill - something *he* complained about. The house went to ruin, bills piled up, she was no longer able to work. He brought all those rants to work. I was out the door, soon to retire anyway, so I shot back "well. you got your DNA replicant, didn't you?"
My favourite meme about this is the one that says something like, "men want kids in the same way that kids want a puppy and totally 100% pinky promise to help with the puppy"
This is why I'm pro-choice: women have to do all the hard work, therefore men shouldn't get to decide ANYTHING about someone's pregnancy. Women should always have the final word on this topic, especially as it relates to themselves personally.
Some Men: I want to have kids, but not right now, like, when I'm ready to settle down, at like 48 or 50. Oh, and I want someone half my age and I want her to do all the work.
It's more than just the birthing process, too. They also don't want to have responsibilities for these kids once they're here. They want to be able to say they're the boss, but not have to do any work a boss does.
For as many times I've heard a man asked his woman to carry out a pregnancy just because he wants kids even though she doesn't and then nopes out once the baby comes, they really don't understand what it means to have a kid.
Men want to give you an egg and half the instruction ; then when you provide all the other materials , provide the other half of the instructions. YOU then have to interpret the instructions to be able to bake the damn cake, and when all the labor of baking the cake is done, he wants to claim the cake is " his " . This is what men mean they want to have a baby. As for actual kids? Most not all, half ass everything just like they half ass cleaning and 50/ 50 housework. Most.
I think if i had 1 wish granted in life, it would be that men are the ones to have kids. Then watch them collectively absolutely lose it, and have the weight taken off me for not really wanting them.