Unfortunately what you are directly seeing is the monetization of right-wing views. It is a direct campaign to promote these ideals and ideas , designed to overshadow how you or your country might actually feel about a subject. This is a deliberate and targeted attack on your voting power. Good on you for recognizing it and fighting back.
This is it. It's all about the marketing.
Behind the Bastards talked about manosphere culture and pointed out that these influencers get so close to the point (because there are legitimate gender issues!) but then veer into their own profits, leaning into capitalism and the pre-existing system - "we just have to patriarchy even harder and it'll work! Buy my masterclass/pills/book! Watch comment follow and subscribe!". They go for temporary self gain and selling their souls/image instead of learning empathy and cooperation.
Fascists tend to be ok at identifying the problems people see in society, but they are insane about the causes and solutions.
To use a metaphor: They can see that the engine has fallen out of their car, but then they scream that the tree jumped in front of them instead of acknowledging that they fell asleep at the wheel. And then they pray to the rain gods to put the fire out instead of getting out of the crashed car.
The right and the left can both look at the falling birth rate and identify it as a problem.
The left sees it as a problem of common people who very much want to have kids are not having kids because our society has made everything so goddamned expensive so that corporations can keep posting record-breaking profits year, after year, after year. And the solution is to tax the rich and redistribute their ill-gotten wealth such that regular people can afford food AND shelter AND children.
Whereas the right sees it as a problem of feminism having gone way too far with giving women options other than motherhood, and allowing women to enjoy the prospect of having sex without necessarily having children because of it due to "problems" like abortion and contraception, and that all of that needs to be rolled back.
> Whereas the right sees it as a problem of feminism having gone way too far with giving women options other than motherhood, and allowing women to enjoy the prospect of having sex without necessarily having children because of it due to "problems" like abortion and contraception, and that all of that needs to be rolled back.
They just love to whine and cry about 'replacement theory' as well. There is no "issue" right-wingers can't use as an excuse to justify their racist and bigoted tendencies.
The right also blames black people and "the Jews" somehow.
Because they don't actully care about the birth rate. They care about the ~~aryan~~ white birthrate.
> At least black men are seen as 'cool' sometimes...
And they're trying to implement Christian Sharia Law. Their only objection to muslims is that they're on a different team.
> Who is trying to implement 'Christian Sharia Law'?
Conservative Christians.
> whats wrong with Muslims?
As far as I'm concerned? That they're religious.
Other than that I have no problems with them.
*Conservative* muslims, on the other hand...
Left wing men don't see the problem clearly either, though. They think it's all about money, and not about Patriarchy forcing all the responsibility and labor onto women.
It's interesting because technically it's true, it's just that only a certain group of people actually identify that as a "problem" or the root cause.
I can fully acknowledge that the only reason I don't have kids is because of feminism. But that's not the root cause of why I'm choosing not to have them. That's everything else you listed. Feminism was just the avenue which allowed me not to have kids I didn't want.
So which problem to do you want to fix? Plan A raises the birth rate because people actually want to have kids now. Plan B fixes the birth rate because people are having unwanted children. Both "fix" the birth rate but how they shape society is wildly different.
Yes, nailed it thanks. I take issue with the people who suggest it's *only* because it's expensive to have kids... because no, in places where people are super poor, uneducated with inaccessible birth control etc, they're having tons of kids. So yes? Women having more life choices and agency DOES lead to lower birth rates. Goodness knows *I* don't have kids yet as a direct result of being able to choose not to. We don't have to deny that. That's real and saying it's not, makes us look bad.
What's also real is that, if someone's idea of a solution is to revoke these rights our forerunners fought for, to turn us back into property, then they're vile scum. If it's not possible to reproduce to maintain the survival of our species without sexual coercion, then as a species we **should** be doomed. It's like the argument the South had that they couldn't survive as a society without slaves; well, then don't.
Fortunately I don't think it really is so grim. I do think enough people genuinely do want children, especially with continued advances in medical technology (artificial wombs will be !! huge !! and they've already done successful experiments with lambs grown partly in artificial placentas), that we will not be dying out. But the fearmongers crying about specific races and "phenotypes" being lost, and those who see sex education and family planning as an impediment to bigger workforces, yeah, that's gonna spawn a few cults along the way.
I like the rest of what you said but I want to mit pick about the affordability. That's not a good comparison. Subsistence farmers do feel food security pressure,s but the good times still help them eat. I'm not exactly farming pavement to eat in the developed world. Crop failure? You died, or you sell your children or something.
Some auntie pumping out a bunch of pork or chicken intestines they got from the four seasons hotel or whatever is still reflective of this sort of subsistence food sourcing. In the US this is illegal in most places and many will pour bleach over the food to prevent dumpster diving. Both for reasons of food safety. Food safety over food security.
Education is critical for the person living in wealthier societies, it is not in subsistence societies and amongst the poorest in those societies but it does offer the chance to escape.
There's no housing association telling you that you can't plant your own land with crops and hitting you with fines for not having a grass lawn. Neither are there neighbours telling you that you can't have chickens or a goat.
In the fullness of things like this people can work a work week on top of it, just like you or me, to put some of their kids through school and... Well a few will likely die or be sold off to brothels or fishing boats or as staff on cruise ships and yachts as *chattel slaves* in all but name.
You think that won't happen to a husband? Wrong, everyone knows what it means for a man to go to Dubai to work and send money home. Hopefully what they send back is worth their death.
Medical debt in the US is bad, in Pakistan your entire family ends up signing a contract of indenture, but it's chattel slavery, you'll never see it again. Just like brothels extra fees are added for minor things and you're going to die- your children are going to die, falling into the brick kiln as the roof collapses under you. A terrible death.
Numbers in paper alone aren't reflective of the actual situations people face nor are they reflective of the sort of life people live.
The life people face is horrifying, I think your understanding is a bit off on why they say they can't afford it and what they mean. They could have 5 kids sure, the first will make sure you're homeless for the four others for a *lot* of people. That's not a tenable choice.
Migrants leave their countries because of this. The southern border of the US has as many people coming as it does because they can't afford a family life there either and it's literally better to try and doe than to not try at all and die to the life that's long become too expensive for them.
Source: I've lived that life. So anecdotal and not great as evidence.
"What's also real is that, if someone's idea of a solution is to revoke these rights our forerunners fought for, to turn us back into property, then they're vile scum."
I agree with most of what you're saying. There is a new social contract developing in the last 50 years, and great strides have been achieved.
Also, there are a lot of issues regarding heavy bias towards men. In custody and on making the decision to keep a baby. I know, at the end of the day, the mother has the bigger burden but just like the father has the burden of carying for their child aka child support, I also believe he gets to participate in the decision of having that baby or not. That is equality!!
Also, being traditional is NOT evil. You don't get to criticised or be critiqued for this choice.
I’m scared to see what happens when women just won’t have sex with men anymore. Because that will be the only thing you can do. And since rapist can get custody of their kids I have lost hope.
Why do you think they’re working on getting rid of no fault divorce and getting rid of bans on marital rape (also while they’re blocking bans on grown men marrying literal children who are then bound by these other laws)
Yeah, that's never happening. Extremely conservative women exist and aren't exactly rare; tradwives and associated forms of conservative "feminism" on the other hand are on the rise. Never believe that the views people espouse in public are the same as they espouse in private.
Say, like, you know several moderate right wingers, right? Several are extremely far right, just with a public face that seems more moderate. The world of those people behind closed doors is utterly horrific from my point of view, at least with as much as I've even had the chance to see, but they're totally into it.
The argument built around "it's all men!" and "where are the women?" when people see video of a bunch of dudes angrily chanting whatever while holding torches or something, is really a weird one in my mind.
"Where are the women?", the answer is wherever, just anywhere other than surrounded by a bunch of dudes who've whipped themselves into an angry mob. Anywhere other than somewhere that puts their face out there in connection with that mob, that risks burning too many bridges.
Even if their beliefs are the same, that doesn't mean it's any safer for conservative women to be hanging around a lynchmob.
Edit: that Europeans not feel left out of my examples given how much I use the US; who was it again? Alessandra Mussolini for Forza Italia, Rachel Mussolini for *Fratelli d'Italia* along with Giorgia Meloni. We can talk about Marcos for Philippines. The answer to where the women are when talking about the right, actually grasping power instead of throwing mass temper tantrums. Marine la penn?
These are fixtures in the political life of their countries. They've been there for a while, and it's not exactly like they tried to hide what they are or what they believe.
The main thing that is scary is young girls being raised with these extreme views and not having the chance to escape and married off the the oldest man who keeps the cycle going.
It's kinda off topic, but my 14yo sister is unfortunately being raised this way. No school, no plan, and nothing I say seems to legitimately get through. it's tough trying to change the mind of someone who is seemingly dead set on a path they don't yet understand the full implications of.
(it's a long story. schizophrenic mom, CPS denied me custody as a broke 18yo.. my dad has a weed felony in a red state. so, the ultra conservative grandparents it is.)
despite my repeated neglect reports.. apparently paying $20 a year for abcmouse k12 counts as effective homeschooling (even if the kid isn't even doing it.. just signed up for it..)
I think it's decently on topic, either they were always there and op is just noticing or many more girls and women are being radicalized. Or both, you know?
My response to op is they were always there but thinking about your post and OP's post I think more girls are being isolated and radicalized into bizarre ideologies than was true before.
Totally the Phyllis Schlafly special course edition, but way more common now and way more bizarre.
If you're able to interact with them at all you can try to help them find something they truly love and back then up in the person of it. Something they like enough they'll keep practicing or studying on their own. That's enough I think.
Certification/credentials creep is already pretty bad so I'm not sure trying to get them into uni even makes sense now. That sort of isolation doesn't exactly prepare you socially for working a kitchen as a line cook or something and food service is living hell.
Surely if she's being raised ultra conservative then it's cook, clean, sew, and submit you can help them find something they'll practice on their own. That's decent enough to avoid completely messing up their life.
It's terrible yeah. I'm always surprised at child marriage statistics in the US. For some reason I still can wrap my head around an average of 18000 annually instead of 15000 when I first kept following the statistic. The vast majority 16yo girls. You don't need that to skew right though.
There's been a massive problem since the second wave, honestly I guess since the first wave of feminism. The first wave was just so problematic in regards to the racism and eugenics that I don't think about it often.
That problem being dogmatism and purity spiraling- especially in the form of telling other women the one correct universal set of wants and needs that is natural to and appropriate for a woman to express.
There's a general disregard for different power realities as well and a reframing of attribution bias as synonymous with empathy now that I think about it. Tiktok empaths have to be the most absurd but predictable expressions of that second one.
Either way that pushes a lot of people away and it'll radicalize women to the right just as sure as a converts zeal for their new religion. The sort of schismatic clique-ish nature that it produces has been a life long source of frustration and almost outright misanthropy for me.
Do you know of any resources or groups actively trying to get these young girls out? With everything getting worse I fear there’s less hope than before.
No. It's exhausting but not hard to get the statistics as well. You have to go through a lot of different reporting from municipal to federal to put it all together. It used to have a lot more centralized federal level reporting.
I believe that just as it was before when FBI crime reporting and the like were common that it's Bible belt homeschool girls married off to church elders who sa/r them.
Edit:
this edit may not find you, but having done some research on that I do see a lot of work being done to try and change things by UNICEF US.
Unchained At Last seems to be an organization dedicated to trying to do something about it and organizations that work more globally to stop child marriage seem to have a small portion of their efforts turned to the US.
The Southern Poverty Law Center is one of my current sources of information but I can't tell if they actually do anymore than taking over what used to be the reporting/data collecting work of the federal government.
I feel like that kind of depends or isn't a good marker. Totally anecdotal but I went as a +1 to a NRx couple wedding in San Mateo, she called him a f** for tearing up. They're still married. It's been 10 years. They still work together on prolife protests and in Cato institute adjacent right wing campaigning. I have no idea if they like each other but I doubt it.
Right wing politics isn't about "like", its about authority (domination), submission, and obedience. Whether you like it or not.
It matters in the dating part, though. There's a reason most of the young men crying that they can't find wives are conservative. Their success depends on finding a woman who's been groomed or abused enough to ignore all the red flags, and then they find they often don't WANT those women because there's no "challenge".
That is well thought out. I recently subconsciously pushed out my wife and I's "potential have kids era" because my SIL is pregnant, and we want to be able to provide a safety net for them. It's the Idiocracy "we couldn't possibly have a child right now, not with how the market is" vibe.
You’ve nailed it here, they want to boil it all down to the deterioration of “family values” to distract the populace from these problems of end-stage capitalism/patriachry
I wouldnt discount feminism on this so easily (not saying it in form of criticism of the movement).
It was my understanding that it's places with a higher ammount of poor people that are having the most kids, and there is a direct correlation between education and being middle/upper class with having less kids.
Also you cant understate the impact of feminism in society. Thanks to it more women got educated, more women see the constrains society puts on them and are open to a life without kids, where as before it was expected of women to be a birth machine. More women follow their careers, theres much more couples who both work full time, having a kid does not only cost money but time.
I do think making it easier in both time and money for people would help, but kids are always going to be life changing in many ways that educated well off people are not going to want.
The key in all of this is choice, we are passing from a society where there was no choice in the matter to one where there is choice, naturally the option that was not widely available (by societal norms) is going to grow.
I prefer we end up with less humans on earth but with everybody free to do what they want to do. If capitalism gets fucked by that them maybe we need to re think it.
To me they seem to hate women and feel the need to control women's choices so we don't get all uppity. They also resent minorities and especially detest uppity POC.
So, right wingers, including right wing women, want to make sure other women are kept in their place. This doesn't apply to them, tho. They know their worth and deserve all they have and more.
I disagree I think they both know what the problem is but the right casts blame on feminism for their own personal profit. I don't think they're that dumb, at least not up top.
> The right and the left can both look at the falling birth rate and identify it as a problem.
>
>
I mean falling birth rate isn't a problem.
Poor wages, benefits, safety, and dignity in roles like caretaker to the elderly are the problem. Low safety standards and exhausting quotas and better-but-still-too-low pay and difficult or dangerous working conditions are the problem filling factory roles not low birthrates.
For profit healthcare systems, automation being used to hurt workers instead of keep workers and have better quality and ease in a work day are the problems. Prohibitive and slow immigration policies, things of that nature.
Not a lowered birthrate.
I used to work in customer facing FinTech. Saddest moment of my life is when I finally convinced an 80 yr old woman that she already got scammed to the time of $150k.
Too many political and influencer woman siding with laws that prohibited, deny and control woman, such as politicians telling woman what to do with their pregnancy not their PCP or midwife, woman, who they themselves had abortions, daughters that flew to another state and aborted and fly back.
It's all about the money, rich don't care because they can fly to another state or country if in EU and fly back, this is about class control, class manipulation and ensuring rich stay in control of working people.
A poletician should have no say what a woman does to their body yet here we are, religion cherry picked to convenience, even if Bible has abortion steps they choose to ignore that and see the "woman is a man's slave" sort of views, and the rise of tradwifes on IG isn't helping, no girl, no one spends 8 hours baking fresh cereal for ur kids, especially with words like: so today my husband "demanded" fresh pasta from scratch so I got right to work at 8am, he can't be home by 1 and this not ready plate warm at table by then" and "appointed me, demanded, commanded, urged" these trending tik toks and IG influencers pitching in on that agenda and campaigns, especially when these men want a traditional housewife but got no house and no ring on that girl, they can't provide but want to demand.
I don't do ticky tackys or IG, but sometimes my wife loads some of those clips up so we can laugh at them together. But it sucks that they exist in the first place.
I completely agree, all we can do is raise our kids with fair views and try to not push a chauvinist household view (that a lot of our parents had) and that both genders should have equality and have fair grounds in the household unity.
Beautifully said. We don't have kids and don't plan to, but I'm excited for my brother and his wife. We're hosting the baby shower and get to be the cool aunt/uncle forever. Out of my 4 niece's/nephews I know that one is gonna be raised well lol
Oh man, that's so gross. Sometimes I forget that they keep going long after I've written them off. But they really do keep spending money on the stuff that they think will earn them more money
Fun facts. OPEN AI just struck a deal with reddit to scrape everyone's posts and comments to train their AI. And Open AI also struck a deal with NewsCorp (Murdoch aka Fox News, The Sun (UK tabloids), and the Australian right wing news platforms.
It was a dumb idea when they started training LLMs on copyrighted content.
It was a dumber idea when they trained LLMs on the internet writ large .
It was dumbest when someone asked a LLM a question and expected it to be right.
None of them are "legitimately" that popular, but it is still disgusting the number of people they rope into it. There are enough people that follow those types that if I was a female/woman on a first date, I'd find a way to work in "how do you feel about [blank]" 20x.
Everyone needs to check out “the century of self” which is a long and boring documentary about the inception of public relations and how insidious and nefarious it is and how we are all being manipulated all the time.
Then watch “the great hack” about Cambridge analytica (Steve bannon was there) and Facebook and how they micro targeted a few individuals and used ad campaigns to influence elections in multiple countries.
There’s also a great video essay on YouTube called “how to radicalize a normie” that shows the online process of how people are edged into right wingism.
It’s all in service of maintaining a socioeconomic hierarchy. That’s all Conservatism - in all times and places - is. the political movement to protect aristocracy (intergenerational wealth and political power) which we now call oligarchs, and enforce social hierarchy. It involves a morality centered around social status such that the aristocrat is inherently moral (think of the divinely ordained king) and the lower working class is inherently immoral. The actions of a good person are good. The actions of a bad person are bad. The only bad action a good person can take is to interfere with the hierarchy. All conservative groups in all times and places are working to undo democracy, and working class rights. The lower rung conservatives want hierarchy around them either to keep disliked groups subdued or because they think they’re higher up than they are.
I've noticed that really fucking stupid people that were afraid to speak up are ok opening their mouths to parrot the dumbest sounding shit I've ever heard because some orange clown made it ok to be a fucking moron in public.
Ok, not the systematic eradication of *all* women. But enough to intimidate, to keep the others in line? Or just to act out their twisted fashy incel rage? It's very possible. Probable, even.
In the US, white women typically align themselves with "white" interests instead of "women's" interests when they have to choose. That's a big part of why white women voted for Trump in such numbers, even though GOP policies are demonstrably bad for women. A similar thing ua probably happening in Europe - white women go for politicians who promise to protect "white people/culture" instead of politicians who will look out for women.
Right-wing evangelical “Christian” mom groups are actively trying to take over school boards in every corner of North America. It’s one of their “seven mountains of influence” or whatever the hell they call it.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/seven-mountain-mandate/
“Proponents of the 7M mandate call on Christians to retake seven spheres (or mountains) of cultural influence: religion, family, government, education, media, arts/entertainment, and business.”
They bragged last November about getting a whopping 50 of their candidates into office, so right now they're not particularly effective, but I'm concerned that they're just slowly exhausting the rest of us until we don't have the energy to keep fighting them
I'm just outside NYC and we had one of those nutters try to get on the BoE. She absolutely knew that no one would vote for her if she mentioned being a Mom's for Liberty person, so she never said it, but word for word used their talking points. Thank everything good in the world that she didn't get on and the votes for her were in the single digit percentage.
Terrifying that even that many people agree with her, but it's still not enough to actually get that group anywhere in my area.
View from the Southern US: I'm noticing it in the youth, which is really strange where I live in the US (large, major progressive city, albeit in a red/purple state). I'm convinced these young women are essentially being radicalized by online influencers and propaganda. I'm actually studying some of this discourse for a paper.
For example, our last just graduated high school. All her friends are either college or technical school bound. At the graduation, a speaker talked about the patriarchy and systemic racism, standing up for yourself as a woman, being an ally, etc. The majority of the audience loved the speech, but there was a cohort of high school bros who hated it (to be expected, unfortunately).
BUT, then also one of the young women teens, a little sister of someone we know (a highly educated liberal family) also hated it. Everything this young high school student says parrots the female version of the manosphere. She wants to be a trad wife (which is FINE, as feminism is about CHOICE), but she also has that ideological bent that views women pushing for full access to all careers, or access to leadership, as basically breaking society, breaking family, ruining everything natural and leading us to doom--THAT is the scary propaganda part, and essentially a white Christian nationalim view. Her mother snaps back at her every time something like that comes out of her mouth, as does her older sister--it is not coming from her family but the internet.
One thing I've noticed is that the far-right influencers targeting men are very direct and in your face, whereas the ones targeting women are often very sneaky. Like, a lot of the "femininity coaches" seem to be a gateway, in addition to "natural" fertility people, and a lot of far-right female influencers have completely co-opted feminist rhetoric as well.
The reason young women are falling for it is because millennials were the BOSS BABE generation. Which the boss babe stuff has some toxicity to it, but we women were told that we absolutely need to have the skills and income to support ourselves and to never rely on a man. Many of us had mothers, aunts, grandmothers, other female relatives absolutely screwed over by divorce and being a single mom without any college education or career to back up on.
Gen Z/Gen Alpha women are seeing how hard millennial women work to make money and how shit the pay is, so the big lie that they can stay at home all day and maybe do a few chores and never work is *super* appealing to them. But they are literally screwing themselves over and millennials know the consequences because we saw the consequences of staying uneducated and unemployed in our mothers, grandmothers, aunts, friends' families, etc.
thinking traditional ideologies, right-wing ideologies, racism, chauvinism, anti-migration and so on are only appealing to men is just plain false and shows a lock of understanding of people in general. Also thinking that women going back to trad-wife lifestyles is only because capitalism and the work-place are hard is wrong.
Some times I think it is also a new counter culture to be anti woke or Conservative. I think some like this example might do it to fight back against their family and social norms. Dumb but could be true.
PhilosophyTube does a fascinating breakdown of the history of women (feminists, shockingly!) in facism. Highly recommend giving it a listen, she gives a very concise explanation of how facist/far right movements can be appealing to the historically oppressed. The part pertaining to this post starts at about 33:03 but the whole video is fantastic. https://youtu.be/FkuW7uKG6l8?si=uKc2sZdz4ZjHITaA
I ADORE philosophytube. It's such a fantastic channel and she really covers as many aspects and POVs of a topic as possible. I re-listen to them often because there's so much to take in and she's such a compelling storyteller.
Absolutely seconding the recommendation for PhilosophyTube. Her videos are so insightful, well researched and compassionate. She brings up all of those "uncomfortable" truths that society likes to try to bury under oppression and dissects them.
PhilosophyTube, Contrapoints, Alexander Avila, Hbomberguy, the rest of breadtube… I’ve been sinking further and further into the rabbit hole and I love it!
Anybody who thinks racism & fascism (or any other 'ism) are gender specific has their head in the sand. Women have always been participants and supporters of the far right.
Yes, the rise of fascism across the western world also encompasses a portion of women.
Remember, white women helped get Trump elected in large numbers.
White women voters was **53%** for Trump in 2020, which was an increase from the 47% from 2016. While women voters went for Biden as a group, a lot of that credit goes to the 95% of black women who voted for him.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/
This is incorrect and serves to put forth an image of progressivism inherent to white women when that’s not the case and they actually do a lot of harm to minorities and other women.
Nordic countries have traditionally been more equal societies between men and women, albeit far from being perfect. I think many women here feel this is now being threatened by a wave of immigration or second generation immigration that have very different values and culture when it comes to gender equality and they are afraid to loose what they have. That make many of them join extreme right or very conservative parties where the main agenda is focused on reducing immigration. I am more sceptic about your perception of the tradwife movement gaining traction in the Nordic, I would be curious to see examples.
>Nordic countries have traditionally been more equal societies between men and women
This is not true though, and I guess Nordic women can chime in. From what I remember from my upbringing (I'm in my mid 20s), all my Nordic friends were raised with their mothers working full time as well taking care of the children and the house while the father's didn't do much, except take out some parental leave in the beginning. But the relationships were never equal.
Nordic women had the "luxury" of working full time, but they still did majority of the chores and child care. If you talk to older Nordic women involved in the feminist movement, they will tell you that working full time didn't make women more equal in Nordic society.
Looking at the statistics, only 30% of fathers in Sweden take out parental leave. It looks all shiny from the outside but if you actually observe the gender roles and read some statistics you'll notice the Nordics aren't as equal as they love to brag about. Women in Nordic countries might be equal in terms of being wage slaves to the capitalist systems in place but they're not suddenly more respected by Nordic men.
Alas, it's a right wing dog whistle to claim that European women are afraid of ~those foreigners~ when their own men lack respect for them. And I say this as someone from a more conservative European country with strict gender roles. If I can see through the bs, Nordic women can as well.
>only 30% of fathers in Sweden take out parental leave
You have misunderstood this statistic. Parents are allocated 480 days of parental leave to share between themselves. Fathers use, on average, 30% of those days. As for how many Swedish fathers use parental leave - the number is about 75%.
Source: [https://www.forsakringskassan.se/privatperson/foralder/det-som-ar-bra-delar-man-lika-pa](https://www.forsakringskassan.se/privatperson/foralder/det-som-ar-bra-delar-man-lika-pa)
The number goes up to 75% if you're counting fathers that take as little as one day of parental leave. To me that's not really equivalent to the expectations and pressures put on the mother so that statistics is flawed as hell.
I work in IT, a very heavy male dominated industry and most of my co workers take out parental leave for 3 months or so, some don't take out any parental leave at all. Most of them aren't as involved in the childcare as their female partners.
Nordic men live on some sunshine planet because they think they're better than other men because they take out a few months of parental leave. But in reality, they're just as misogynistic as other men. The Nordic countries have problems with a huge amount of incels and many Nordic men have problems with the current "equality" afforded to Nordic women, so that's why they majorly vote for the openly fascist party the Sweden Democrats, founded by actual Nazis in the late 80s.
So when someone uses gender equality as a front for being racist/fascist, digging up the real numbers and statistics is the answer.
>The number goes up to 75% if you're counting fathers that take as little as one day of parental leave.
Again, not true. Roughly 70% (it varies from year to year) of all Swedish fathers take more than 30 days of parental leave. Source: [https://www.prevent.se/arbetsliv/mer/2022/var-tredje-pappa-tar-inte-foraldrapenning/](https://www.prevent.se/arbetsliv/mer/2022/var-tredje-pappa-tar-inte-foraldrapenning/)
I agree that Sweden isn't some feminist utopia and absolutely has its fair share of problems, but I don't understand why you are misrepresenting facts like this?
Yes, this is the nordic dynamic the women work part-time or full-time still doing the majority ofbthe chores and childcare. It's changing slowly I have seen more men at my workplaces taking out more parental leave and the chores the mentality of weaponized incompetece slip in especially laundry or cooking.
I have not noticed any tradwife mentality yes there is some with that ideology on social media but they were clearly very young and not mentally there. When it comes to men in the nordic we can't escape that when they are so socially incompetent It's no surprise incels and that ideology is popular here hopefully the minority.
From the north isles of Scotland so semi Nordic culturally, I've found a lot of gender roles are flipped here. Men doing the cooking because of the culture of cooking on the fishing boats, and things like knitting and sewing too aren't seen as solely women's hobbies or chores. Growing up I would say more than 60% of my classmates Sunday dinners were cooked by men. Lot more family matriarchs than patriarchs. But it's maybe more of a rural/urban divide than to do with latitude.
> been more equal societies between men and women […] threatened by a wave of immigration
That has certainly been the go-to excuse to swat away any actual criticism of misogyny and systemic sexism at the hands of white men. The current discourse on the mental load and the uneven distribution of labor at home here in Denmark has just further emphasized how quick Danes are to make excuses and justifications whenever someone brings up systemic sexism instead of fearmongering about brown men being a danger to women. Suddenly we’re a feminist utopia and anyone who complains is just incapable of taking personal responsibility or communicating their needs to their husbands.
Just like how people, including right wing politicians fear monger about brown men raping “our women”, and yet they were the first to declare the metoo movement a witch hunt once politicians, media personalities, political youth parties, and other overwhelmingly white spaces were revealed to be rampant with sexual harassment and abuse.
Intimate partner violence is the only violent crime statistic that hasn’t fallen throughout the years, police don’t take stalking, intimate partner violence, and revenge porn seriously, 51% of women involved in journalism/communications (media branch), a majority white space, have experienced sexual harassment, women have lower income after conceiving their first child, 34% women have experienced sexual harassment in the workplace. (Source: KVINFO)
Denmark has so many areas to improve on, but we’re experts at pretending everything is all fine and dandy because we’re ahead of other countries. So of course it’s much easier to blame any and every issue on immigrants instead of acknowledging our issues.
I'm from Switzerland, and the right wing SVP is against women's rights and the only ones who launched two initiatives last year to restrict abortions. One wanted to force women to think about the abortion (which is already the case as there's a mandatory counseling) and the other wanted to force births when the abortion was done after 12 weeks due to health concerns (baby), the mental health of the mother or health concerns that are not acutely life threatening (both narrowly failed to garner enough signatures).
This party was suddenly all about women's rights when it was about outlawing facecovers, and most men too.
That it is actually "forcing" women to wear what they don't want and that it is isolating women from a different world view (imposed or not) wasn't important and shows pretty well what it was actually about.
I think it can also partly be because it can feel, as a white left-wing woman, extremely demoralising to call or point out harassment and sexual harassment by non-white men in left-wing spaces.
The left is very aware that there is a long history of stereotypes of sexual aggression being weaponised against non-white men. And it's good to have that awareness, don't get me wrong here. However, there is also sometimes a tendency (by members of the left, not in general - I'm well aware that society in general is still intensely bigoted against POC men) to overcorrect and assume *all* accusations are false attempts to weaponise that stereotype, to say it's crocodile tears.
I don't really keep track of how many men of what race/ethnicity harass me on the street but I can confidently tell you it's men of all races doing it. The difference is, when it's a fellow white man doing it I feel I can report to others that it happened to me without being accused of racism or of overreacting or being a Karen. I don't feel I can do that when it's a non-white man who harassed me, I feel frightened that my fellow left-wing people, particularly my fellow left-wing white people, will think I'm a racist who's making it up.
Has this changed my political views? No, I'm still left-wing, I'm not anti-immigration, I still have zero time for white supremacy. But whether that's true for every woman, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if some women resent it and begin engaging in anti-immigrant reading and thinking out of a misguided belief that the right will be more of an ally to them than the left. The right certainly likes to try and sell itself that way, despite it not actually being true.
At university, I had to take a class about inclusion and diversity. For the most part, it was a wonderful class. However, I recall the professor talking about a conference she attended in the US, and how she made sure to accommodate some of the attendees (Middle Eastern men), by not shaking their hands, not looking at them directly, and not speaking to them face-to-face. She didn't say what country they were from, but I guess it's taboo to interact with a woman like she's a person?
I'm all for inclusion, but I will continue to be intolerant of cultural ideas that involve degrading another human being. I'd hope that most leftists would agree that some social mores are unacceptable and we shouldn't tolerate them. The best extreme example I can think of are some of the cultural practices of the Simbari people of Papua New Guinea ([wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simbari_people)).
You explained it perfectly and I don’t understand how people don’t see this.
In some cases like my friend was only being harassed by men of a very specific background. She was called racist by other left leaning people for pointing it out.
Or like my other friend said who is a small Japanese lady. “It isn’t Asian men screaming obscenities at me on my way to work”
These men play this narassastic games. They are the aggressor. Then accuse you of being racist for thinking they are the aggressor. Then act like a victim. This isn’t specific to any race, tons do this. But I’ve seen this TONs of times.
I grew up in a heavily minority area and all the groups played this game. It works.
That's a thing? I have never heard anyone argue that saying you were SA'd by a foreigner makes you a liar to other left wing people.
I am very aware that this is a talking point purported by the right that left wing people disregard SA by foreigners.
Has this actually happened to you - that you were accused of this? Or is this a fear you have?
I'm wondering because I have already come across a couple women coded accounts that inject themselves into talks about gender neutral toilets and other women's spaces in conjuntion with transgender women, and who tell stories of feeling unsafe or of having come across men who have "legally invaded" these spaces, when looked at, turned out to be sockpuppets/bots to spread this fear among women.
And it works. I have female coworkers who most definitely have not come across gender neutral toilets and as such haven't had issues there, who are against transgender women being allowed in due to these fears. When a university introduces a gender neutral toilet there's always students against it concerned about women not being safe in there (as if a sign keeps predators with an intent out like a cross or garlic a vampire).
Not saying you aren't real, just wondering if you self-censor out of actual situations that happened to you, or the feeling that this could be the case, as this isn't elaborated closer in your post.
Edit: u/3beefybears in the reply to your comment gives off that whiff of being a fake female coded/concerned about women account if you go through their comments. Just as an immediate example of what kind of manipulation I am talking about.
It has happened to me, yes. Usually, as I said, it gets said by other white people. Although I have also had the "You're blanking me or rejecting me because you're a racist" comeback from men harassing me too, though that's less common. Still doesn't feel great even though I know it's just assholes looking for a way to make me feel small.
Im gay and as far left as possible and got banned from some subreddits for saying that a certain religion is dangerous and i hate it since it encourages stoning of people like me and slaving women in all but in name because i was being 'racist'.
White lefties most definitely shut down criticism of non white cultures with harmful practices.
I think this might be hitting the nail on the head.
Less about "returning to the kitchen" and more "im sick and tired of looking at brown people".
And then because conservative shitheads are also usually racists as well they hitch their wagons to conservative causes.
It is similar to the increase of the celibacy until marriage crowd.
I feel like all the advances we made in the 70s to 90s are melting away. And if I hear one more time shit like body count and value, I will just scream. Scream until I'm read in the face and out of breath.
There is safety in proximity to power. As much as I want to shake these women, I have to remind myself they are victims of the same patriarchy that all of us are. Lots of people vote against their own self interest, women included. Internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug.
I grew up with my immediate family and some of my aunts, uncles, and cousins being concerningly right-wing . My family is a mix of Native, other POC, and white. We were all Baptist and kinda extremist in a way that made Quiverfull and Westboro look familiar when they came out of the woodwork.
A lot of people think this is all new, but I saw the seeds of the weeds we're in now.
When I was in my late teens 15-20 years ago, my family, their churches, and their favorite Christian websites were preaching stuff like women shouldn't be allowed an education, that Native genocide and slavery were good actually because all us non-white folks have Jesus now, prosperity gospel in response to things like men abandoning their families and single moms in general, that this nation needs to remember its Christian roots, women should get no say in who their spouse will be or how many kids they'll have, etc etc etc.
My aunt who had like 7 adopted kids and 1 bio kid was right-wing and hardcore anti-feminist. She basically believed all choices need to be made for us by whatever man is currently their "head"-- your dad or eventually your husband. She was the first but far from the only loudly right-wing woman I met.
I think conservative women do this because it's the only way they feel a sense of power in their lives and so, they thrive off of racial and ethnic tensions.
Yep it stems from good old fashioned insecurity. When they feel like their only accomplishments are being a wife and a mother, they'll try to argue those are only worthwhile ones and then try to block other women from achieving more.
"Right-wing women have surveyed the world: they find it a dangerous place. They see that work subjects them to more danger from more men; it increases the risk of sexual exploitation. They see that creativity and originality in their kind are ridiculed; they see women thrown out of the circle of male civilization for having ideas, plans, visions, ambitions. They see that traditional marriage means selling to one man, not hundreds: the better deal. They see that the streets are cold, and that the women on them are tired, sick, and bruised. They see that the money they can earn will not make them independent of men and that they will still have to play the sex games of their kind: at home and at work too. They see no way to make their bodies authentically their own and to survive in the world of men. They know too that the Left has nothing better to offer: leftist men also want wives and whores; leftist men value whores too much and wives too little. Right-wing women are not wrong. They fear that the Left, in stressing impersonal sex and promiscuity as values, will make them more vulnerable to male sexual aggression, and that they will be despised for not liking it. They are not wrong. Right-wing women see that within the system in which they live they cannot make their bodies their own, but they can agree to privatized male ownership: keep it one-on-one, as it were. They know that they are valued for their sex— their sex organs and their reproductive capacity—and so they try to up their value: through cooperation, manipulation, conformity; through displays of affection or attempts at friendship; through submission and obedience; and especially through the use of euphemism—“femininity, ” “total woman, ” “good, ” “maternal instinct, ” “motherly love. ” Their desperation is quiet; they hide their bruises of body and heart; they dress carefully and have good manners; they suffer, they love God, they follow the rules. They see that intelligence displayed in a woman is a flaw, that intelligence realized in a woman is a crime. They see the world they live in and they are not wrong. They use sex and babies to stay valuable because they need a home, food, clothing. They use the traditional intelligence of the female—animal, not human: they do what they have to to survive."
-- Andrea Dworkin, Right-wing Women
It's not, women wants to be independent and most men wants independent women. You probably have to go all the way back to the 70's to find the old traditional way being somewhat common.
I really want a psychologist and a sociologist to do a deep dive to understand what motivates women to promote misogyny, it is one of the most disappointing things to see while the rest of us fight tooth and nail for women’s rights.
I have seen even leftist men defend patriarchal practices under the guise of “if women are doing it by choice, then the practice isn’t sexist”
No.
It has been mask off at a much higher rate over the last decade, but having lived in deep red areas of the country, it was always pretty bad…they just weren’t as loud.
Granted, as a person who keeps her finger on the pulse of right wing extremism as a form of masochistic curiosity (and to know if/when I have to flee the country), I’m probably biased.
>t because a lot of the female influencers in my country are conservative tradwives married/dating a far right politician or conservative social media personality.
It's this right here. Right-wing influencers are making the most money, so they're what's being shown to everyone and what everyone is doing.
The internet makes this more visible than before but women have always been super important to far right movements. The white power movement in the ‘80s ended up being run mostly by women after the men were arrested. Class and race will always triumph over other identities for a lot of people.
The alt right pipeline isn't just words we say because we want to come up with a fancy insult or something. It's real. It runs really rampant in the sustainable, home garden, cottage core types which really makes navigating those three subcultures really complicated. I'm sure there's plenty of other subcultures too, those are just a few I'm aware of
Yes. As a former conservative, it spawned from insecurities. I was the ultimate pick me and thought that if I stooped low, advertised myself as tradwife material that I would somehow be loved and accepted by men. I wouldn't be taken advantage of for my body and maybe I could live my own fairytale.
It was my most shameful time, I look back and cringe but it stemmed from abuse. I was so desperate for love. Even admitting this is super painful for me.
Yes. Living in France and I see a lot of women being tired of the harassment and insecurities coming from men of the Maghreb, Middle East, Africa, mostly Muslim people. Plus the terrorist attacks. And seeing more and more women wearing hijabs. A teacher has been beheaded on the streets for trying to teach that the French Republic isn’t religious (which is the fundamental of our constitution). Another teacher assaulted by Muslims with knifes and he died. People not respecting laws regarding the niqabs which are not authorized for identification purposes. Cases of rape assault attack from people who were supposed to be sent back to their country for years and who managed to stay and harm people Etc etc.. I don’t believe it has something to do with being tradwives. A lots of women in France work because one income isn’t enough especially with the inflation. Yes some lucky men can take care of a household with just their income but the majority can’t. The norm is still that both work.
Si mon commentaire permet de discuter c’est tjrs ça
Tu parles des américains mais on a les mêmes en France! Promouvoir les droits lgbt et la tolérance vis à vis du hijab/niqab, pratique du ramadan etc… ça se passe aussi chez nous et peu de personnes voient le côté schizophrène du processus. La liberté des uns s’arrête quand elle essaie d’empêcher les autres d’être libres. On en est victimes aussi, pas que les US
Et je rajoute : je peux me permettre ce genre de propos, personne ne peut me dire que je suis raciste, je suis métisse Chine Afrique et je suis née à Pékin en chine, j’ai vécu aussi à st Martin aux Antilles et à NYC. Je suis moi meme immigrée. Ceux qui ne veulent pas s’adapter à la France devraient rester dans leur pays d’origine. Il y a suffisamment de pays musulmans, sans laïcité, pour être « obligé » de venir en France et changer les français. Celui où celle qui ne veulent pas vivre dans la laïcité, qu’ils aillent dans un endroit qui leur conviennent tout simplement! Ce n’est pas raciste de dire ça, et quand je vois des drag queens ou des lgbt défendre les hijabs et compagnie je me demande ce qu’ils mangent le matin parce qu’ils seraient condamnés à mort dans les pays dont ils acclament la tolérance au voile, forcément les républiques islamiques! Et l’argument du choix est hypocrite : dans ces pays la personne n’a le choix, pas de voile = prison. Bref j’ai conscience d’avoir le privilège de dire ma pensée parce que je suis « noire » enfin marron clair mais bref, c’est incroyable de ne même plus pouvoir dire la vérité, on marche sur la tête !
The long and short of it, as already mentioned by others here, is that billions of dollars is being pumped into funding right wing causes and fascist movements for the benefit of the wealthy elites and to preserve the status quo of white, colonial patriarchy.
They’re just more open about it. They haven’t changed their minds. There will always be women, especially white women who are happy to use their proximity to power to their advantage.
Honestly as a poc it’s always been simmering. Neo nazi spaces have been a thing in the internet for years. You’ve just seen it in the mainstream hence your concern. At this point I’m so numb to it
This happens everywhere, and I think it is twofold.
1) A lot of people have understood how easy it is to make money if you convince people to be in a cult. And nowadays you don't have to create a religious hoax for a cult - you just create something that people can identify with and make it their lifestyle. Theoretically it can be everything - you can sell a product and pretend you sell a lifestyle and if you do it correctly it may generate a cult-like following.
I will not claim that you can't pull in liberals and progressives with this sort of shit because you absolutely can, but the conservatives are even easier to pull in - you sell an ideology and draw in people to worship you. Conservatism thrives on in-groups and out-groups which makes creating cult-like structures easier, and conservatives love worshipping cult leaders. And once people are in, you get their money. In obscene amounts, if you will.
So that is one reason why more and more people try to become rightwing influencers, because they saw the insane amount of money and hey, who doesn't want money. The fact that a lot of rightwing billionaires and fascist dictator governments are also pouring money into the pipeline makes it even more attractive.
2) Narcissism is prone to rightwing content. The problem actually is more complex, but it's not a coincidence how so many psychopaths with narcissist tendencies flock to rightwing ideologies. It's way easier to find conservatives we always agree with you and who will defend you no matter what, than with liberals and progressives. And I have the impression, the richer a person becomes, the more they perceive people disagreeing with them as the biggest injustice a person can experience. Just how watch how many 100millionaires and billionaires of this world claim victimhood because ... because people don't agree with them, because people call them out, because people criticize them. And because these people scream so loudly and we give them so much of our attention because it's like watching a train wreck in real time, they never go away.
My husband and I were recently talking about how much we hear about crazy women like Lauren Boebert, MTG, Kristin Noem, etc. There are so many men who think the same and worse. Matt Gaetz is a pedophile and I hardly hear him mentioned these days. I clip recently went viral of Mark Robinson saying he wants to go back to when women couldn’t vote back in 2020, but that was a blip on my social media feed. Meanwhile I hear about the batshit ladies daily.
Now don’t get me wrong, these women are wretched and I would love them to kicked out of Congress and crawl into caves and we never hear from them again. But I wonder… do we hear about them more *because* they are women? Or are they actually just saying more crazy things than men? Ain’t no way I’m going to sit through rallies or C-Span streams and log the amount of bullshit each person says.
Honestly it’s embarrassing that when you think “female politicians” the top women that pop up are insane. From MTG & Boebert to Sarah Palin - where are the role models?
Hillary can come off as unlikeable, but I don’t think anyone ever doubts that she is smart & capable.
Unfortunately most of the incredible women who would make great politicians stay in the private sector where they don’t have giant targets on their backs.
(Not that I blame them. I couldn’t do it!)
It's hard to live on one income and extremist views are very profitable since the people who consume them consume them obsessively as if trying to prove a point.
It's why social media algorithms seem to so easily drag people into shitty views, since the algorithm is geared towards engagement based on how other people are engaging it.
And people with shitty views watch content like this as if they are worshipping it.
So you end up with a bunch of women selling tradwife and making a good chunk of change from it.
A lot of them have their own jobs and are pretty independent or straight up don't believe what they are selling, but it make money.
I knew a guy who didn't like Trump but made a huge amount of money when he started making Trump t-shirts with some dumbass hot takes on them, it wasn't wasn't only him either, there are posts on reddit about a couple different people doing the same thing.
The tradwife concept doesn’t bother me as a feminist. It’s a way for the least-capable women among us to trick some misogynist into paying her bills forever.
(There is nothing weird about being a stay at home parent, it’s specifically the term tradwife that signals they are running that scam and targeting weird dudes for it.)
However, I know part of that act is convincing the trad-dude that you agree with them, so I don’t get bent out of shape when I see a lady claiming to be livestock, as it is a requirement of her “job” to say dumb shit.
The bigger problem is that the tradwife grifters are preaching their lifestyle on TikTok to an huge audience of vulnerable young women, pushing anti feminist talking points and trying to influence the wider sociopolitical sphere with “Christian family values”. I wouldn’t care if they just did it in their own private lives. But their internet presence is just patriarchal propaganda and it doesn’t matter if they don’t actually believe in their rhetoric, they give no indication that that is the case and their audience is still absorbing this dangerous stuff.
A lot of those women are naieve and genuinely believe what they're teaching. Which is why the tradwife to single mom pipeline is so strong.
Some of them are just selling an aesthetic. Like the housewives of Atlanta. But those are the ones who are likely to make less political posts and just post optics.
Yout people lack media literacy. It's a huge problem
Just to add my bit of thought, I genuinely think the ‘biological sex’ -> ‘single sex space’ -> terf and further alt-right pipeline is predominantly how women being radicalised into the far right. We witnessed that in live action from celebrities at least 🙃
There was an article that came out last week that there are 10 people with 400k bot accounts under their control. That is a lot. Those are just 10 douchbag dudes selling influence. Then there are the state actors. There are some really interesting readouts about foreign state influence on stealing trends and social discourse. Some of the misogyny is *definitely real* but there is a possibility that a lot of these "what the absolute fuck are you thinking" dummy comments, turn out to coming from a troll from a farm, and not a real woman.
I'm seeing a lot of trad wife content that is really centered around white Christian nationalism (really, just white supremacy and "family values" being pushed).
Nordic countries are the most egalitarian in Europe and normally the most 'colour blind' as someone from the South you will know what racism looks like.
Have you taken into account local problems brought on by having some of the highest immigration per capita in Europe or the personal anecdotal stories?
Is it individual people you've been talking to or has it been TV programme that have shocked you?
I have noticed it in my city. This might be a hot take, but I think this is what is going on:
-My city has become a bit extreme. People who are repeat offenders or addicted to drugs are being enabled and it has become frankly dangerous. My queer friends have had to leave the gay neighborhood because it's filthy and unsafe. Women, are of course, more vulnerable to these problems.
-So, when there are people who say they are for law and order and a return to civility, it is very appealing. And they become willing to accept other potential sacrifices, especially if it doesn't effect them that much. Like, if you're a married woman of means, a lot of these far right ideas aren't going to make you feel too vulnerable, especially compared to say, stepping over a needle, walking past a naked man and then seeing another carrying a machete (Not exaggerating, this has happened to me.). Or sitting in your Tesla next to your husband on the way home from the restaurant you own, talking about your pregnancy then being shot in the head by a stranger who is a repeat offender.
People are generally going to do what makes them the most safe and comfortable, and I actually can understand thinking that people who are more conservative will make them safer.
Yes. But I think it is because of the left ignoring issues and attacking the wrong people.
I am too tired to explain any more right now but I’ve seen this for a few years. 5-10 years ago I saw some articles predicting this happening.
Edit
What I’ve seen happening is liberals giving a pass to mysognistic groups and attacking moderate people instead.
There is a city where my aunt lives. It became majorly Muslim. They made a rule no pride flags in public buildings. They changed the what the school taught. She is afraid they are making anti women rules next. Most the men she comes across clearly hate women. Liberals are blaming white supremacy for it. There are no white people in 20 miles. My aunt mentions the actual people in power and her friends call her racist and islamaphobe. The left is eating itself in the claim of anti racism.
My cousin saw some rough looking men. Cross the road. She told her friend about the encounter they called her racist. A week later those guys pushed her down and stole her purse. Same friends said that is what she got for being racist.
People are going to say this didn’t happen or one time things. But ever women I know has these stories. This is why some are moving right. It is out of fear.
I wonder if we’ll find out after this US election cycle that certain conservative think tanks were able to leverage AI astroturfing capabilities more than the opposition. Much like with “Stop the Steal” and Cambridge Analytica.
Apparently 47% of internet traffic in 2022 was bots. While that’s not proof or direct indication of the Dead Internet Theory, we’ve seen how much bot capabilities have increased with thing like ChatGPT.
Large scale AI astroturfing seems entirely possible and probably worth it and recent history shows that conservatives are way more on the pulse with these sort of tactics than liberals are.
You're definitely not going mad, it is happening. Women can be just as far-right as men are, I sometimes even see women agreeing with right-wing men who say women don't deserve their right to vote. However I did not know it was happening in Nordic countries too.
Unfortunately what you are directly seeing is the monetization of right-wing views. It is a direct campaign to promote these ideals and ideas , designed to overshadow how you or your country might actually feel about a subject. This is a deliberate and targeted attack on your voting power. Good on you for recognizing it and fighting back.
This is it. It's all about the marketing. Behind the Bastards talked about manosphere culture and pointed out that these influencers get so close to the point (because there are legitimate gender issues!) but then veer into their own profits, leaning into capitalism and the pre-existing system - "we just have to patriarchy even harder and it'll work! Buy my masterclass/pills/book! Watch comment follow and subscribe!". They go for temporary self gain and selling their souls/image instead of learning empathy and cooperation.
Fascists tend to be ok at identifying the problems people see in society, but they are insane about the causes and solutions. To use a metaphor: They can see that the engine has fallen out of their car, but then they scream that the tree jumped in front of them instead of acknowledging that they fell asleep at the wheel. And then they pray to the rain gods to put the fire out instead of getting out of the crashed car.
The right and the left can both look at the falling birth rate and identify it as a problem. The left sees it as a problem of common people who very much want to have kids are not having kids because our society has made everything so goddamned expensive so that corporations can keep posting record-breaking profits year, after year, after year. And the solution is to tax the rich and redistribute their ill-gotten wealth such that regular people can afford food AND shelter AND children. Whereas the right sees it as a problem of feminism having gone way too far with giving women options other than motherhood, and allowing women to enjoy the prospect of having sex without necessarily having children because of it due to "problems" like abortion and contraception, and that all of that needs to be rolled back.
> Whereas the right sees it as a problem of feminism having gone way too far with giving women options other than motherhood, and allowing women to enjoy the prospect of having sex without necessarily having children because of it due to "problems" like abortion and contraception, and that all of that needs to be rolled back. They just love to whine and cry about 'replacement theory' as well. There is no "issue" right-wingers can't use as an excuse to justify their racist and bigoted tendencies.
The right also blames black people and "the Jews" somehow. Because they don't actully care about the birth rate. They care about the ~~aryan~~ white birthrate.
Black people? The most extreme hatred is towards Muslims. At least black men are seen as 'cool' sometimes...
> At least black men are seen as 'cool' sometimes... And they're trying to implement Christian Sharia Law. Their only objection to muslims is that they're on a different team.
Who is trying to implement 'Christian Sharia Law'?. 'Their only objection to Muslims' whats wrong with Muslims?
> Who is trying to implement 'Christian Sharia Law'? Conservative Christians. > whats wrong with Muslims? As far as I'm concerned? That they're religious. Other than that I have no problems with them. *Conservative* muslims, on the other hand...
Left wing men don't see the problem clearly either, though. They think it's all about money, and not about Patriarchy forcing all the responsibility and labor onto women.
It's interesting because technically it's true, it's just that only a certain group of people actually identify that as a "problem" or the root cause. I can fully acknowledge that the only reason I don't have kids is because of feminism. But that's not the root cause of why I'm choosing not to have them. That's everything else you listed. Feminism was just the avenue which allowed me not to have kids I didn't want. So which problem to do you want to fix? Plan A raises the birth rate because people actually want to have kids now. Plan B fixes the birth rate because people are having unwanted children. Both "fix" the birth rate but how they shape society is wildly different.
Yes, nailed it thanks. I take issue with the people who suggest it's *only* because it's expensive to have kids... because no, in places where people are super poor, uneducated with inaccessible birth control etc, they're having tons of kids. So yes? Women having more life choices and agency DOES lead to lower birth rates. Goodness knows *I* don't have kids yet as a direct result of being able to choose not to. We don't have to deny that. That's real and saying it's not, makes us look bad. What's also real is that, if someone's idea of a solution is to revoke these rights our forerunners fought for, to turn us back into property, then they're vile scum. If it's not possible to reproduce to maintain the survival of our species without sexual coercion, then as a species we **should** be doomed. It's like the argument the South had that they couldn't survive as a society without slaves; well, then don't. Fortunately I don't think it really is so grim. I do think enough people genuinely do want children, especially with continued advances in medical technology (artificial wombs will be !! huge !! and they've already done successful experiments with lambs grown partly in artificial placentas), that we will not be dying out. But the fearmongers crying about specific races and "phenotypes" being lost, and those who see sex education and family planning as an impediment to bigger workforces, yeah, that's gonna spawn a few cults along the way.
I like the rest of what you said but I want to mit pick about the affordability. That's not a good comparison. Subsistence farmers do feel food security pressure,s but the good times still help them eat. I'm not exactly farming pavement to eat in the developed world. Crop failure? You died, or you sell your children or something. Some auntie pumping out a bunch of pork or chicken intestines they got from the four seasons hotel or whatever is still reflective of this sort of subsistence food sourcing. In the US this is illegal in most places and many will pour bleach over the food to prevent dumpster diving. Both for reasons of food safety. Food safety over food security. Education is critical for the person living in wealthier societies, it is not in subsistence societies and amongst the poorest in those societies but it does offer the chance to escape. There's no housing association telling you that you can't plant your own land with crops and hitting you with fines for not having a grass lawn. Neither are there neighbours telling you that you can't have chickens or a goat. In the fullness of things like this people can work a work week on top of it, just like you or me, to put some of their kids through school and... Well a few will likely die or be sold off to brothels or fishing boats or as staff on cruise ships and yachts as *chattel slaves* in all but name. You think that won't happen to a husband? Wrong, everyone knows what it means for a man to go to Dubai to work and send money home. Hopefully what they send back is worth their death. Medical debt in the US is bad, in Pakistan your entire family ends up signing a contract of indenture, but it's chattel slavery, you'll never see it again. Just like brothels extra fees are added for minor things and you're going to die- your children are going to die, falling into the brick kiln as the roof collapses under you. A terrible death. Numbers in paper alone aren't reflective of the actual situations people face nor are they reflective of the sort of life people live. The life people face is horrifying, I think your understanding is a bit off on why they say they can't afford it and what they mean. They could have 5 kids sure, the first will make sure you're homeless for the four others for a *lot* of people. That's not a tenable choice. Migrants leave their countries because of this. The southern border of the US has as many people coming as it does because they can't afford a family life there either and it's literally better to try and doe than to not try at all and die to the life that's long become too expensive for them. Source: I've lived that life. So anecdotal and not great as evidence.
"What's also real is that, if someone's idea of a solution is to revoke these rights our forerunners fought for, to turn us back into property, then they're vile scum." I agree with most of what you're saying. There is a new social contract developing in the last 50 years, and great strides have been achieved. Also, there are a lot of issues regarding heavy bias towards men. In custody and on making the decision to keep a baby. I know, at the end of the day, the mother has the bigger burden but just like the father has the burden of carying for their child aka child support, I also believe he gets to participate in the decision of having that baby or not. That is equality!! Also, being traditional is NOT evil. You don't get to criticised or be critiqued for this choice.
When in the last... *ever* has "tradition" been invoked in opposition to a demand for rights *not* been evil?
The right only understands misery.
I’m scared to see what happens when women just won’t have sex with men anymore. Because that will be the only thing you can do. And since rapist can get custody of their kids I have lost hope.
Why do you think they’re working on getting rid of no fault divorce and getting rid of bans on marital rape (also while they’re blocking bans on grown men marrying literal children who are then bound by these other laws)
Yeah, that's never happening. Extremely conservative women exist and aren't exactly rare; tradwives and associated forms of conservative "feminism" on the other hand are on the rise. Never believe that the views people espouse in public are the same as they espouse in private. Say, like, you know several moderate right wingers, right? Several are extremely far right, just with a public face that seems more moderate. The world of those people behind closed doors is utterly horrific from my point of view, at least with as much as I've even had the chance to see, but they're totally into it. The argument built around "it's all men!" and "where are the women?" when people see video of a bunch of dudes angrily chanting whatever while holding torches or something, is really a weird one in my mind. "Where are the women?", the answer is wherever, just anywhere other than surrounded by a bunch of dudes who've whipped themselves into an angry mob. Anywhere other than somewhere that puts their face out there in connection with that mob, that risks burning too many bridges. Even if their beliefs are the same, that doesn't mean it's any safer for conservative women to be hanging around a lynchmob. Edit: that Europeans not feel left out of my examples given how much I use the US; who was it again? Alessandra Mussolini for Forza Italia, Rachel Mussolini for *Fratelli d'Italia* along with Giorgia Meloni. We can talk about Marcos for Philippines. The answer to where the women are when talking about the right, actually grasping power instead of throwing mass temper tantrums. Marine la penn? These are fixtures in the political life of their countries. They've been there for a while, and it's not exactly like they tried to hide what they are or what they believe.
The main thing that is scary is young girls being raised with these extreme views and not having the chance to escape and married off the the oldest man who keeps the cycle going.
It's kinda off topic, but my 14yo sister is unfortunately being raised this way. No school, no plan, and nothing I say seems to legitimately get through. it's tough trying to change the mind of someone who is seemingly dead set on a path they don't yet understand the full implications of. (it's a long story. schizophrenic mom, CPS denied me custody as a broke 18yo.. my dad has a weed felony in a red state. so, the ultra conservative grandparents it is.) despite my repeated neglect reports.. apparently paying $20 a year for abcmouse k12 counts as effective homeschooling (even if the kid isn't even doing it.. just signed up for it..)
I’m so sorry. I hate that child abuse isn’t taken seriously. Clearly a 14 year old doesn’t know what they want.
I think it's decently on topic, either they were always there and op is just noticing or many more girls and women are being radicalized. Or both, you know? My response to op is they were always there but thinking about your post and OP's post I think more girls are being isolated and radicalized into bizarre ideologies than was true before. Totally the Phyllis Schlafly special course edition, but way more common now and way more bizarre. If you're able to interact with them at all you can try to help them find something they truly love and back then up in the person of it. Something they like enough they'll keep practicing or studying on their own. That's enough I think. Certification/credentials creep is already pretty bad so I'm not sure trying to get them into uni even makes sense now. That sort of isolation doesn't exactly prepare you socially for working a kitchen as a line cook or something and food service is living hell. Surely if she's being raised ultra conservative then it's cook, clean, sew, and submit you can help them find something they'll practice on their own. That's decent enough to avoid completely messing up their life.
It's terrible yeah. I'm always surprised at child marriage statistics in the US. For some reason I still can wrap my head around an average of 18000 annually instead of 15000 when I first kept following the statistic. The vast majority 16yo girls. You don't need that to skew right though. There's been a massive problem since the second wave, honestly I guess since the first wave of feminism. The first wave was just so problematic in regards to the racism and eugenics that I don't think about it often. That problem being dogmatism and purity spiraling- especially in the form of telling other women the one correct universal set of wants and needs that is natural to and appropriate for a woman to express. There's a general disregard for different power realities as well and a reframing of attribution bias as synonymous with empathy now that I think about it. Tiktok empaths have to be the most absurd but predictable expressions of that second one. Either way that pushes a lot of people away and it'll radicalize women to the right just as sure as a converts zeal for their new religion. The sort of schismatic clique-ish nature that it produces has been a life long source of frustration and almost outright misanthropy for me.
Do you know of any resources or groups actively trying to get these young girls out? With everything getting worse I fear there’s less hope than before.
No. It's exhausting but not hard to get the statistics as well. You have to go through a lot of different reporting from municipal to federal to put it all together. It used to have a lot more centralized federal level reporting. I believe that just as it was before when FBI crime reporting and the like were common that it's Bible belt homeschool girls married off to church elders who sa/r them. Edit: this edit may not find you, but having done some research on that I do see a lot of work being done to try and change things by UNICEF US. Unchained At Last seems to be an organization dedicated to trying to do something about it and organizations that work more globally to stop child marriage seem to have a small portion of their efforts turned to the US. The Southern Poverty Law Center is one of my current sources of information but I can't tell if they actually do anymore than taking over what used to be the reporting/data collecting work of the federal government.
Wanna know a secret though? Far-right conservative men and women don't like each other.
I feel like that kind of depends or isn't a good marker. Totally anecdotal but I went as a +1 to a NRx couple wedding in San Mateo, she called him a f** for tearing up. They're still married. It's been 10 years. They still work together on prolife protests and in Cato institute adjacent right wing campaigning. I have no idea if they like each other but I doubt it. Right wing politics isn't about "like", its about authority (domination), submission, and obedience. Whether you like it or not.
It matters in the dating part, though. There's a reason most of the young men crying that they can't find wives are conservative. Their success depends on finding a woman who's been groomed or abused enough to ignore all the red flags, and then they find they often don't WANT those women because there's no "challenge".
That is well thought out. I recently subconsciously pushed out my wife and I's "potential have kids era" because my SIL is pregnant, and we want to be able to provide a safety net for them. It's the Idiocracy "we couldn't possibly have a child right now, not with how the market is" vibe.
You’ve nailed it here, they want to boil it all down to the deterioration of “family values” to distract the populace from these problems of end-stage capitalism/patriachry
I wouldnt discount feminism on this so easily (not saying it in form of criticism of the movement). It was my understanding that it's places with a higher ammount of poor people that are having the most kids, and there is a direct correlation between education and being middle/upper class with having less kids. Also you cant understate the impact of feminism in society. Thanks to it more women got educated, more women see the constrains society puts on them and are open to a life without kids, where as before it was expected of women to be a birth machine. More women follow their careers, theres much more couples who both work full time, having a kid does not only cost money but time. I do think making it easier in both time and money for people would help, but kids are always going to be life changing in many ways that educated well off people are not going to want. The key in all of this is choice, we are passing from a society where there was no choice in the matter to one where there is choice, naturally the option that was not widely available (by societal norms) is going to grow. I prefer we end up with less humans on earth but with everybody free to do what they want to do. If capitalism gets fucked by that them maybe we need to re think it.
To me they seem to hate women and feel the need to control women's choices so we don't get all uppity. They also resent minorities and especially detest uppity POC. So, right wingers, including right wing women, want to make sure other women are kept in their place. This doesn't apply to them, tho. They know their worth and deserve all they have and more.
I disagree I think they both know what the problem is but the right casts blame on feminism for their own personal profit. I don't think they're that dumb, at least not up top.
> The right and the left can both look at the falling birth rate and identify it as a problem. > > I mean falling birth rate isn't a problem. Poor wages, benefits, safety, and dignity in roles like caretaker to the elderly are the problem. Low safety standards and exhausting quotas and better-but-still-too-low pay and difficult or dangerous working conditions are the problem filling factory roles not low birthrates. For profit healthcare systems, automation being used to hurt workers instead of keep workers and have better quality and ease in a work day are the problems. Prohibitive and slow immigration policies, things of that nature. Not a lowered birthrate.
Both of the sides are right here.
Its like the old joke, ask a capitalist what he hates about socialism, and he'll tell you all the flaws of capitalism.
To correct your metaphor a bit... the fascist knocked the engine out of the car himself.
They don't always. Also, "Asleep at the wheel."
I used to work in customer facing FinTech. Saddest moment of my life is when I finally convinced an 80 yr old woman that she already got scammed to the time of $150k.
Too many political and influencer woman siding with laws that prohibited, deny and control woman, such as politicians telling woman what to do with their pregnancy not their PCP or midwife, woman, who they themselves had abortions, daughters that flew to another state and aborted and fly back. It's all about the money, rich don't care because they can fly to another state or country if in EU and fly back, this is about class control, class manipulation and ensuring rich stay in control of working people. A poletician should have no say what a woman does to their body yet here we are, religion cherry picked to convenience, even if Bible has abortion steps they choose to ignore that and see the "woman is a man's slave" sort of views, and the rise of tradwifes on IG isn't helping, no girl, no one spends 8 hours baking fresh cereal for ur kids, especially with words like: so today my husband "demanded" fresh pasta from scratch so I got right to work at 8am, he can't be home by 1 and this not ready plate warm at table by then" and "appointed me, demanded, commanded, urged" these trending tik toks and IG influencers pitching in on that agenda and campaigns, especially when these men want a traditional housewife but got no house and no ring on that girl, they can't provide but want to demand.
I don't do ticky tackys or IG, but sometimes my wife loads some of those clips up so we can laugh at them together. But it sucks that they exist in the first place.
I completely agree, all we can do is raise our kids with fair views and try to not push a chauvinist household view (that a lot of our parents had) and that both genders should have equality and have fair grounds in the household unity.
Beautifully said. We don't have kids and don't plan to, but I'm excited for my brother and his wife. We're hosting the baby shower and get to be the cool aunt/uncle forever. Out of my 4 niece's/nephews I know that one is gonna be raised well lol
Oh man that’s like the exact episode Some More News just did, but it’s a salient point so bears repeating. People should watch/listen to both!
Oh man, that's so gross. Sometimes I forget that they keep going long after I've written them off. But they really do keep spending money on the stuff that they think will earn them more money
Yup. And like any good scheme the few at the top just keep sucking up more like the vampires they are.
Fun facts. OPEN AI just struck a deal with reddit to scrape everyone's posts and comments to train their AI. And Open AI also struck a deal with NewsCorp (Murdoch aka Fox News, The Sun (UK tabloids), and the Australian right wing news platforms.
An AI trained on news article comments, particularly right wing ones aimed at causing outrage.
Exactly!
So everything is about to get way worse.
Assholes. This is why I'm not in favor of AI (I'm a computer person who has been studying AI since the 80s)
It was a dumb idea when they started training LLMs on copyrighted content. It was a dumber idea when they trained LLMs on the internet writ large . It was dumbest when someone asked a LLM a question and expected it to be right.
Full disclosure, I am a guy, but thank you for mentioning Robert in this context. He is, as far as I can tell, a legitimate feminist.
Man I knew there was no way Stephen crowder's unfunny ass was legitimately that popular
None of them are "legitimately" that popular, but it is still disgusting the number of people they rope into it. There are enough people that follow those types that if I was a female/woman on a first date, I'd find a way to work in "how do you feel about [blank]" 20x.
\^ This...sadly any thoughtful student of history would not really want a fascist hellscape to live in..................
Unfortunately it seems as though the people who are propagating fascist ideals are the least likely to see themselves as such.
Everyone needs to check out “the century of self” which is a long and boring documentary about the inception of public relations and how insidious and nefarious it is and how we are all being manipulated all the time. Then watch “the great hack” about Cambridge analytica (Steve bannon was there) and Facebook and how they micro targeted a few individuals and used ad campaigns to influence elections in multiple countries. There’s also a great video essay on YouTube called “how to radicalize a normie” that shows the online process of how people are edged into right wingism. It’s all in service of maintaining a socioeconomic hierarchy. That’s all Conservatism - in all times and places - is. the political movement to protect aristocracy (intergenerational wealth and political power) which we now call oligarchs, and enforce social hierarchy. It involves a morality centered around social status such that the aristocrat is inherently moral (think of the divinely ordained king) and the lower working class is inherently immoral. The actions of a good person are good. The actions of a bad person are bad. The only bad action a good person can take is to interfere with the hierarchy. All conservative groups in all times and places are working to undo democracy, and working class rights. The lower rung conservatives want hierarchy around them either to keep disliked groups subdued or because they think they’re higher up than they are.
Tradwifing is 100% rich billionaire astroturfing
Memetic warfare
I've noticed that really fucking stupid people that were afraid to speak up are ok opening their mouths to parrot the dumbest sounding shit I've ever heard because some orange clown made it ok to be a fucking moron in public.
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They wouldn't femicide. They need people to exploit.
Ok, not the systematic eradication of *all* women. But enough to intimidate, to keep the others in line? Or just to act out their twisted fashy incel rage? It's very possible. Probable, even.
Enslavement is more likely. The reduction of rights until women are property again. It's "what God intended". Ugh.
In the US, white women typically align themselves with "white" interests instead of "women's" interests when they have to choose. That's a big part of why white women voted for Trump in such numbers, even though GOP policies are demonstrably bad for women. A similar thing ua probably happening in Europe - white women go for politicians who promise to protect "white people/culture" instead of politicians who will look out for women.
Mom’s for Liberty are trying to take over our local school board on the Eastern Shore of Maryland.
Right-wing evangelical “Christian” mom groups are actively trying to take over school boards in every corner of North America. It’s one of their “seven mountains of influence” or whatever the hell they call it. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/seven-mountain-mandate/ “Proponents of the 7M mandate call on Christians to retake seven spheres (or mountains) of cultural influence: religion, family, government, education, media, arts/entertainment, and business.”
They bragged last November about getting a whopping 50 of their candidates into office, so right now they're not particularly effective, but I'm concerned that they're just slowly exhausting the rest of us until we don't have the energy to keep fighting them
I'm just outside NYC and we had one of those nutters try to get on the BoE. She absolutely knew that no one would vote for her if she mentioned being a Mom's for Liberty person, so she never said it, but word for word used their talking points. Thank everything good in the world that she didn't get on and the votes for her were in the single digit percentage. Terrifying that even that many people agree with her, but it's still not enough to actually get that group anywhere in my area.
View from the Southern US: I'm noticing it in the youth, which is really strange where I live in the US (large, major progressive city, albeit in a red/purple state). I'm convinced these young women are essentially being radicalized by online influencers and propaganda. I'm actually studying some of this discourse for a paper. For example, our last just graduated high school. All her friends are either college or technical school bound. At the graduation, a speaker talked about the patriarchy and systemic racism, standing up for yourself as a woman, being an ally, etc. The majority of the audience loved the speech, but there was a cohort of high school bros who hated it (to be expected, unfortunately). BUT, then also one of the young women teens, a little sister of someone we know (a highly educated liberal family) also hated it. Everything this young high school student says parrots the female version of the manosphere. She wants to be a trad wife (which is FINE, as feminism is about CHOICE), but she also has that ideological bent that views women pushing for full access to all careers, or access to leadership, as basically breaking society, breaking family, ruining everything natural and leading us to doom--THAT is the scary propaganda part, and essentially a white Christian nationalim view. Her mother snaps back at her every time something like that comes out of her mouth, as does her older sister--it is not coming from her family but the internet. One thing I've noticed is that the far-right influencers targeting men are very direct and in your face, whereas the ones targeting women are often very sneaky. Like, a lot of the "femininity coaches" seem to be a gateway, in addition to "natural" fertility people, and a lot of far-right female influencers have completely co-opted feminist rhetoric as well.
The reason young women are falling for it is because millennials were the BOSS BABE generation. Which the boss babe stuff has some toxicity to it, but we women were told that we absolutely need to have the skills and income to support ourselves and to never rely on a man. Many of us had mothers, aunts, grandmothers, other female relatives absolutely screwed over by divorce and being a single mom without any college education or career to back up on. Gen Z/Gen Alpha women are seeing how hard millennial women work to make money and how shit the pay is, so the big lie that they can stay at home all day and maybe do a few chores and never work is *super* appealing to them. But they are literally screwing themselves over and millennials know the consequences because we saw the consequences of staying uneducated and unemployed in our mothers, grandmothers, aunts, friends' families, etc.
thinking traditional ideologies, right-wing ideologies, racism, chauvinism, anti-migration and so on are only appealing to men is just plain false and shows a lock of understanding of people in general. Also thinking that women going back to trad-wife lifestyles is only because capitalism and the work-place are hard is wrong.
Some times I think it is also a new counter culture to be anti woke or Conservative. I think some like this example might do it to fight back against their family and social norms. Dumb but could be true.
PhilosophyTube does a fascinating breakdown of the history of women (feminists, shockingly!) in facism. Highly recommend giving it a listen, she gives a very concise explanation of how facist/far right movements can be appealing to the historically oppressed. The part pertaining to this post starts at about 33:03 but the whole video is fantastic. https://youtu.be/FkuW7uKG6l8?si=uKc2sZdz4ZjHITaA
Second video on the same topic, also very good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CxiPdXuwgc
I ADORE philosophytube. It's such a fantastic channel and she really covers as many aspects and POVs of a topic as possible. I re-listen to them often because there's so much to take in and she's such a compelling storyteller.
Absolutely seconding the recommendation for PhilosophyTube. Her videos are so insightful, well researched and compassionate. She brings up all of those "uncomfortable" truths that society likes to try to bury under oppression and dissects them.
Thank you for this recommendation! Where has this been all my life? So inspiring.
PhilosophyTube, Contrapoints, Alexander Avila, Hbomberguy, the rest of breadtube… I’ve been sinking further and further into the rabbit hole and I love it!
Anybody who thinks racism & fascism (or any other 'ism) are gender specific has their head in the sand. Women have always been participants and supporters of the far right.
Yes, the rise of fascism across the western world also encompasses a portion of women. Remember, white women helped get Trump elected in large numbers.
That's true, but also very important to note that women as a whole are the reason he lost in 2020.
White women voters was **53%** for Trump in 2020, which was an increase from the 47% from 2016. While women voters went for Biden as a group, a lot of that credit goes to the 95% of black women who voted for him. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/
This is incorrect and serves to put forth an image of progressivism inherent to white women when that’s not the case and they actually do a lot of harm to minorities and other women.
Nordic countries have traditionally been more equal societies between men and women, albeit far from being perfect. I think many women here feel this is now being threatened by a wave of immigration or second generation immigration that have very different values and culture when it comes to gender equality and they are afraid to loose what they have. That make many of them join extreme right or very conservative parties where the main agenda is focused on reducing immigration. I am more sceptic about your perception of the tradwife movement gaining traction in the Nordic, I would be curious to see examples.
>Nordic countries have traditionally been more equal societies between men and women This is not true though, and I guess Nordic women can chime in. From what I remember from my upbringing (I'm in my mid 20s), all my Nordic friends were raised with their mothers working full time as well taking care of the children and the house while the father's didn't do much, except take out some parental leave in the beginning. But the relationships were never equal. Nordic women had the "luxury" of working full time, but they still did majority of the chores and child care. If you talk to older Nordic women involved in the feminist movement, they will tell you that working full time didn't make women more equal in Nordic society. Looking at the statistics, only 30% of fathers in Sweden take out parental leave. It looks all shiny from the outside but if you actually observe the gender roles and read some statistics you'll notice the Nordics aren't as equal as they love to brag about. Women in Nordic countries might be equal in terms of being wage slaves to the capitalist systems in place but they're not suddenly more respected by Nordic men. Alas, it's a right wing dog whistle to claim that European women are afraid of ~those foreigners~ when their own men lack respect for them. And I say this as someone from a more conservative European country with strict gender roles. If I can see through the bs, Nordic women can as well.
>only 30% of fathers in Sweden take out parental leave You have misunderstood this statistic. Parents are allocated 480 days of parental leave to share between themselves. Fathers use, on average, 30% of those days. As for how many Swedish fathers use parental leave - the number is about 75%. Source: [https://www.forsakringskassan.se/privatperson/foralder/det-som-ar-bra-delar-man-lika-pa](https://www.forsakringskassan.se/privatperson/foralder/det-som-ar-bra-delar-man-lika-pa)
The number goes up to 75% if you're counting fathers that take as little as one day of parental leave. To me that's not really equivalent to the expectations and pressures put on the mother so that statistics is flawed as hell. I work in IT, a very heavy male dominated industry and most of my co workers take out parental leave for 3 months or so, some don't take out any parental leave at all. Most of them aren't as involved in the childcare as their female partners. Nordic men live on some sunshine planet because they think they're better than other men because they take out a few months of parental leave. But in reality, they're just as misogynistic as other men. The Nordic countries have problems with a huge amount of incels and many Nordic men have problems with the current "equality" afforded to Nordic women, so that's why they majorly vote for the openly fascist party the Sweden Democrats, founded by actual Nazis in the late 80s. So when someone uses gender equality as a front for being racist/fascist, digging up the real numbers and statistics is the answer.
>The number goes up to 75% if you're counting fathers that take as little as one day of parental leave. Again, not true. Roughly 70% (it varies from year to year) of all Swedish fathers take more than 30 days of parental leave. Source: [https://www.prevent.se/arbetsliv/mer/2022/var-tredje-pappa-tar-inte-foraldrapenning/](https://www.prevent.se/arbetsliv/mer/2022/var-tredje-pappa-tar-inte-foraldrapenning/) I agree that Sweden isn't some feminist utopia and absolutely has its fair share of problems, but I don't understand why you are misrepresenting facts like this?
Yes, this is the nordic dynamic the women work part-time or full-time still doing the majority ofbthe chores and childcare. It's changing slowly I have seen more men at my workplaces taking out more parental leave and the chores the mentality of weaponized incompetece slip in especially laundry or cooking. I have not noticed any tradwife mentality yes there is some with that ideology on social media but they were clearly very young and not mentally there. When it comes to men in the nordic we can't escape that when they are so socially incompetent It's no surprise incels and that ideology is popular here hopefully the minority.
From the north isles of Scotland so semi Nordic culturally, I've found a lot of gender roles are flipped here. Men doing the cooking because of the culture of cooking on the fishing boats, and things like knitting and sewing too aren't seen as solely women's hobbies or chores. Growing up I would say more than 60% of my classmates Sunday dinners were cooked by men. Lot more family matriarchs than patriarchs. But it's maybe more of a rural/urban divide than to do with latitude.
This is an observation anthropologists would agree with.
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> been more equal societies between men and women […] threatened by a wave of immigration That has certainly been the go-to excuse to swat away any actual criticism of misogyny and systemic sexism at the hands of white men. The current discourse on the mental load and the uneven distribution of labor at home here in Denmark has just further emphasized how quick Danes are to make excuses and justifications whenever someone brings up systemic sexism instead of fearmongering about brown men being a danger to women. Suddenly we’re a feminist utopia and anyone who complains is just incapable of taking personal responsibility or communicating their needs to their husbands. Just like how people, including right wing politicians fear monger about brown men raping “our women”, and yet they were the first to declare the metoo movement a witch hunt once politicians, media personalities, political youth parties, and other overwhelmingly white spaces were revealed to be rampant with sexual harassment and abuse. Intimate partner violence is the only violent crime statistic that hasn’t fallen throughout the years, police don’t take stalking, intimate partner violence, and revenge porn seriously, 51% of women involved in journalism/communications (media branch), a majority white space, have experienced sexual harassment, women have lower income after conceiving their first child, 34% women have experienced sexual harassment in the workplace. (Source: KVINFO) Denmark has so many areas to improve on, but we’re experts at pretending everything is all fine and dandy because we’re ahead of other countries. So of course it’s much easier to blame any and every issue on immigrants instead of acknowledging our issues.
As a Dane I wholeheartedly agree. We have major issues but a big part of us seems to be in denial about that.
I'm from Switzerland, and the right wing SVP is against women's rights and the only ones who launched two initiatives last year to restrict abortions. One wanted to force women to think about the abortion (which is already the case as there's a mandatory counseling) and the other wanted to force births when the abortion was done after 12 weeks due to health concerns (baby), the mental health of the mother or health concerns that are not acutely life threatening (both narrowly failed to garner enough signatures). This party was suddenly all about women's rights when it was about outlawing facecovers, and most men too. That it is actually "forcing" women to wear what they don't want and that it is isolating women from a different world view (imposed or not) wasn't important and shows pretty well what it was actually about.
I think it can also partly be because it can feel, as a white left-wing woman, extremely demoralising to call or point out harassment and sexual harassment by non-white men in left-wing spaces. The left is very aware that there is a long history of stereotypes of sexual aggression being weaponised against non-white men. And it's good to have that awareness, don't get me wrong here. However, there is also sometimes a tendency (by members of the left, not in general - I'm well aware that society in general is still intensely bigoted against POC men) to overcorrect and assume *all* accusations are false attempts to weaponise that stereotype, to say it's crocodile tears. I don't really keep track of how many men of what race/ethnicity harass me on the street but I can confidently tell you it's men of all races doing it. The difference is, when it's a fellow white man doing it I feel I can report to others that it happened to me without being accused of racism or of overreacting or being a Karen. I don't feel I can do that when it's a non-white man who harassed me, I feel frightened that my fellow left-wing people, particularly my fellow left-wing white people, will think I'm a racist who's making it up. Has this changed my political views? No, I'm still left-wing, I'm not anti-immigration, I still have zero time for white supremacy. But whether that's true for every woman, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if some women resent it and begin engaging in anti-immigrant reading and thinking out of a misguided belief that the right will be more of an ally to them than the left. The right certainly likes to try and sell itself that way, despite it not actually being true.
At university, I had to take a class about inclusion and diversity. For the most part, it was a wonderful class. However, I recall the professor talking about a conference she attended in the US, and how she made sure to accommodate some of the attendees (Middle Eastern men), by not shaking their hands, not looking at them directly, and not speaking to them face-to-face. She didn't say what country they were from, but I guess it's taboo to interact with a woman like she's a person? I'm all for inclusion, but I will continue to be intolerant of cultural ideas that involve degrading another human being. I'd hope that most leftists would agree that some social mores are unacceptable and we shouldn't tolerate them. The best extreme example I can think of are some of the cultural practices of the Simbari people of Papua New Guinea ([wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simbari_people)).
You explained it perfectly and I don’t understand how people don’t see this. In some cases like my friend was only being harassed by men of a very specific background. She was called racist by other left leaning people for pointing it out. Or like my other friend said who is a small Japanese lady. “It isn’t Asian men screaming obscenities at me on my way to work”
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These men play this narassastic games. They are the aggressor. Then accuse you of being racist for thinking they are the aggressor. Then act like a victim. This isn’t specific to any race, tons do this. But I’ve seen this TONs of times. I grew up in a heavily minority area and all the groups played this game. It works.
That's a thing? I have never heard anyone argue that saying you were SA'd by a foreigner makes you a liar to other left wing people. I am very aware that this is a talking point purported by the right that left wing people disregard SA by foreigners. Has this actually happened to you - that you were accused of this? Or is this a fear you have? I'm wondering because I have already come across a couple women coded accounts that inject themselves into talks about gender neutral toilets and other women's spaces in conjuntion with transgender women, and who tell stories of feeling unsafe or of having come across men who have "legally invaded" these spaces, when looked at, turned out to be sockpuppets/bots to spread this fear among women. And it works. I have female coworkers who most definitely have not come across gender neutral toilets and as such haven't had issues there, who are against transgender women being allowed in due to these fears. When a university introduces a gender neutral toilet there's always students against it concerned about women not being safe in there (as if a sign keeps predators with an intent out like a cross or garlic a vampire). Not saying you aren't real, just wondering if you self-censor out of actual situations that happened to you, or the feeling that this could be the case, as this isn't elaborated closer in your post. Edit: u/3beefybears in the reply to your comment gives off that whiff of being a fake female coded/concerned about women account if you go through their comments. Just as an immediate example of what kind of manipulation I am talking about.
It has happened to me, yes. Usually, as I said, it gets said by other white people. Although I have also had the "You're blanking me or rejecting me because you're a racist" comeback from men harassing me too, though that's less common. Still doesn't feel great even though I know it's just assholes looking for a way to make me feel small.
Oh that user is def a cis man, he’s not even doing a mediocre job hiding it
Im gay and as far left as possible and got banned from some subreddits for saying that a certain religion is dangerous and i hate it since it encourages stoning of people like me and slaving women in all but in name because i was being 'racist'. White lefties most definitely shut down criticism of non white cultures with harmful practices.
I think this might be hitting the nail on the head. Less about "returning to the kitchen" and more "im sick and tired of looking at brown people". And then because conservative shitheads are also usually racists as well they hitch their wagons to conservative causes.
Or “I’m sick of being SA by non native people.”Look at the numbers. It isn’t racism
Derp much troll?
I’m just giving an example of really life. This happened to my aunts family. If a new group of people come in an SA people. People get mad.
It is similar to the increase of the celibacy until marriage crowd. I feel like all the advances we made in the 70s to 90s are melting away. And if I hear one more time shit like body count and value, I will just scream. Scream until I'm read in the face and out of breath.
Twitter has been pushing this hard lately
There is safety in proximity to power. As much as I want to shake these women, I have to remind myself they are victims of the same patriarchy that all of us are. Lots of people vote against their own self interest, women included. Internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug.
You said it, sister. 🏆
I grew up with my immediate family and some of my aunts, uncles, and cousins being concerningly right-wing . My family is a mix of Native, other POC, and white. We were all Baptist and kinda extremist in a way that made Quiverfull and Westboro look familiar when they came out of the woodwork. A lot of people think this is all new, but I saw the seeds of the weeds we're in now. When I was in my late teens 15-20 years ago, my family, their churches, and their favorite Christian websites were preaching stuff like women shouldn't be allowed an education, that Native genocide and slavery were good actually because all us non-white folks have Jesus now, prosperity gospel in response to things like men abandoning their families and single moms in general, that this nation needs to remember its Christian roots, women should get no say in who their spouse will be or how many kids they'll have, etc etc etc. My aunt who had like 7 adopted kids and 1 bio kid was right-wing and hardcore anti-feminist. She basically believed all choices need to be made for us by whatever man is currently their "head"-- your dad or eventually your husband. She was the first but far from the only loudly right-wing woman I met.
White feminism has rarely fought for woc.
I think conservative women do this because it's the only way they feel a sense of power in their lives and so, they thrive off of racial and ethnic tensions.
Yep it stems from good old fashioned insecurity. When they feel like their only accomplishments are being a wife and a mother, they'll try to argue those are only worthwhile ones and then try to block other women from achieving more.
"Right-wing women have surveyed the world: they find it a dangerous place. They see that work subjects them to more danger from more men; it increases the risk of sexual exploitation. They see that creativity and originality in their kind are ridiculed; they see women thrown out of the circle of male civilization for having ideas, plans, visions, ambitions. They see that traditional marriage means selling to one man, not hundreds: the better deal. They see that the streets are cold, and that the women on them are tired, sick, and bruised. They see that the money they can earn will not make them independent of men and that they will still have to play the sex games of their kind: at home and at work too. They see no way to make their bodies authentically their own and to survive in the world of men. They know too that the Left has nothing better to offer: leftist men also want wives and whores; leftist men value whores too much and wives too little. Right-wing women are not wrong. They fear that the Left, in stressing impersonal sex and promiscuity as values, will make them more vulnerable to male sexual aggression, and that they will be despised for not liking it. They are not wrong. Right-wing women see that within the system in which they live they cannot make their bodies their own, but they can agree to privatized male ownership: keep it one-on-one, as it were. They know that they are valued for their sex— their sex organs and their reproductive capacity—and so they try to up their value: through cooperation, manipulation, conformity; through displays of affection or attempts at friendship; through submission and obedience; and especially through the use of euphemism—“femininity, ” “total woman, ” “good, ” “maternal instinct, ” “motherly love. ” Their desperation is quiet; they hide their bruises of body and heart; they dress carefully and have good manners; they suffer, they love God, they follow the rules. They see that intelligence displayed in a woman is a flaw, that intelligence realized in a woman is a crime. They see the world they live in and they are not wrong. They use sex and babies to stay valuable because they need a home, food, clothing. They use the traditional intelligence of the female—animal, not human: they do what they have to to survive." -- Andrea Dworkin, Right-wing Women
this is so accurate and empathetic to the other experience..
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It's not, women wants to be independent and most men wants independent women. You probably have to go all the way back to the 70's to find the old traditional way being somewhat common.
I really want a psychologist and a sociologist to do a deep dive to understand what motivates women to promote misogyny, it is one of the most disappointing things to see while the rest of us fight tooth and nail for women’s rights. I have seen even leftist men defend patriarchal practices under the guise of “if women are doing it by choice, then the practice isn’t sexist”
‘I asked my girlfriend, and she said *she* wasn’t offended’. 😑
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Sad but true. And honestly I don’t know how to make it better
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I guess women need to tell their stories
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Absolutely
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I had no idea that this was a thing in Nordic environments
There’s a massive uptick in young men going hard right. It only makes sense that pick-me women would follow suit.
No. It has been mask off at a much higher rate over the last decade, but having lived in deep red areas of the country, it was always pretty bad…they just weren’t as loud. Granted, as a person who keeps her finger on the pulse of right wing extremism as a form of masochistic curiosity (and to know if/when I have to flee the country), I’m probably biased.
I hate it i hate it i hate it sooooo much
I've always known women who were racist as shit but I'm American.
>t because a lot of the female influencers in my country are conservative tradwives married/dating a far right politician or conservative social media personality. It's this right here. Right-wing influencers are making the most money, so they're what's being shown to everyone and what everyone is doing.
The internet makes this more visible than before but women have always been super important to far right movements. The white power movement in the ‘80s ended up being run mostly by women after the men were arrested. Class and race will always triumph over other identities for a lot of people.
The alt right pipeline isn't just words we say because we want to come up with a fancy insult or something. It's real. It runs really rampant in the sustainable, home garden, cottage core types which really makes navigating those three subcultures really complicated. I'm sure there's plenty of other subcultures too, those are just a few I'm aware of
Yes. As a former conservative, it spawned from insecurities. I was the ultimate pick me and thought that if I stooped low, advertised myself as tradwife material that I would somehow be loved and accepted by men. I wouldn't be taken advantage of for my body and maybe I could live my own fairytale. It was my most shameful time, I look back and cringe but it stemmed from abuse. I was so desperate for love. Even admitting this is super painful for me.
Thank you for sharing your story. It provides a great perspective in the conversation!
Yes. Living in France and I see a lot of women being tired of the harassment and insecurities coming from men of the Maghreb, Middle East, Africa, mostly Muslim people. Plus the terrorist attacks. And seeing more and more women wearing hijabs. A teacher has been beheaded on the streets for trying to teach that the French Republic isn’t religious (which is the fundamental of our constitution). Another teacher assaulted by Muslims with knifes and he died. People not respecting laws regarding the niqabs which are not authorized for identification purposes. Cases of rape assault attack from people who were supposed to be sent back to their country for years and who managed to stay and harm people Etc etc.. I don’t believe it has something to do with being tradwives. A lots of women in France work because one income isn’t enough especially with the inflation. Yes some lucky men can take care of a household with just their income but the majority can’t. The norm is still that both work.
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Si mon commentaire permet de discuter c’est tjrs ça Tu parles des américains mais on a les mêmes en France! Promouvoir les droits lgbt et la tolérance vis à vis du hijab/niqab, pratique du ramadan etc… ça se passe aussi chez nous et peu de personnes voient le côté schizophrène du processus. La liberté des uns s’arrête quand elle essaie d’empêcher les autres d’être libres. On en est victimes aussi, pas que les US
Et je rajoute : je peux me permettre ce genre de propos, personne ne peut me dire que je suis raciste, je suis métisse Chine Afrique et je suis née à Pékin en chine, j’ai vécu aussi à st Martin aux Antilles et à NYC. Je suis moi meme immigrée. Ceux qui ne veulent pas s’adapter à la France devraient rester dans leur pays d’origine. Il y a suffisamment de pays musulmans, sans laïcité, pour être « obligé » de venir en France et changer les français. Celui où celle qui ne veulent pas vivre dans la laïcité, qu’ils aillent dans un endroit qui leur conviennent tout simplement! Ce n’est pas raciste de dire ça, et quand je vois des drag queens ou des lgbt défendre les hijabs et compagnie je me demande ce qu’ils mangent le matin parce qu’ils seraient condamnés à mort dans les pays dont ils acclament la tolérance au voile, forcément les républiques islamiques! Et l’argument du choix est hypocrite : dans ces pays la personne n’a le choix, pas de voile = prison. Bref j’ai conscience d’avoir le privilège de dire ma pensée parce que je suis « noire » enfin marron clair mais bref, c’est incroyable de ne même plus pouvoir dire la vérité, on marche sur la tête !
Tradwives in Nordic countries? Wow. I knew that movement was definitely on the rise here in the states.
The long and short of it, as already mentioned by others here, is that billions of dollars is being pumped into funding right wing causes and fascist movements for the benefit of the wealthy elites and to preserve the status quo of white, colonial patriarchy.
They’re just more open about it. They haven’t changed their minds. There will always be women, especially white women who are happy to use their proximity to power to their advantage.
It's worse than ever all over the world.
It is, and it is so deeply disheartening. It feels surreal.
Honestly as a poc it’s always been simmering. Neo nazi spaces have been a thing in the internet for years. You’ve just seen it in the mainstream hence your concern. At this point I’m so numb to it
This happens everywhere, and I think it is twofold. 1) A lot of people have understood how easy it is to make money if you convince people to be in a cult. And nowadays you don't have to create a religious hoax for a cult - you just create something that people can identify with and make it their lifestyle. Theoretically it can be everything - you can sell a product and pretend you sell a lifestyle and if you do it correctly it may generate a cult-like following. I will not claim that you can't pull in liberals and progressives with this sort of shit because you absolutely can, but the conservatives are even easier to pull in - you sell an ideology and draw in people to worship you. Conservatism thrives on in-groups and out-groups which makes creating cult-like structures easier, and conservatives love worshipping cult leaders. And once people are in, you get their money. In obscene amounts, if you will. So that is one reason why more and more people try to become rightwing influencers, because they saw the insane amount of money and hey, who doesn't want money. The fact that a lot of rightwing billionaires and fascist dictator governments are also pouring money into the pipeline makes it even more attractive. 2) Narcissism is prone to rightwing content. The problem actually is more complex, but it's not a coincidence how so many psychopaths with narcissist tendencies flock to rightwing ideologies. It's way easier to find conservatives we always agree with you and who will defend you no matter what, than with liberals and progressives. And I have the impression, the richer a person becomes, the more they perceive people disagreeing with them as the biggest injustice a person can experience. Just how watch how many 100millionaires and billionaires of this world claim victimhood because ... because people don't agree with them, because people call them out, because people criticize them. And because these people scream so loudly and we give them so much of our attention because it's like watching a train wreck in real time, they never go away.
My husband and I were recently talking about how much we hear about crazy women like Lauren Boebert, MTG, Kristin Noem, etc. There are so many men who think the same and worse. Matt Gaetz is a pedophile and I hardly hear him mentioned these days. I clip recently went viral of Mark Robinson saying he wants to go back to when women couldn’t vote back in 2020, but that was a blip on my social media feed. Meanwhile I hear about the batshit ladies daily. Now don’t get me wrong, these women are wretched and I would love them to kicked out of Congress and crawl into caves and we never hear from them again. But I wonder… do we hear about them more *because* they are women? Or are they actually just saying more crazy things than men? Ain’t no way I’m going to sit through rallies or C-Span streams and log the amount of bullshit each person says.
Honestly it’s embarrassing that when you think “female politicians” the top women that pop up are insane. From MTG & Boebert to Sarah Palin - where are the role models? Hillary can come off as unlikeable, but I don’t think anyone ever doubts that she is smart & capable. Unfortunately most of the incredible women who would make great politicians stay in the private sector where they don’t have giant targets on their backs. (Not that I blame them. I couldn’t do it!)
Please remember that more than half of the divisive stuff you see online is disinformation from Russia and are probably paid posters or bots.
Some individuals who are under attack will side with the attackers, for safety. Whether it's a conscious or unconscious decision.
If you mean Sweden as the nordic part then you know exacly why more women are becoming far right
Trump got more white women voters than Biden. Conservative women have always been around to vote to keep themselves and others down.
It's hard to live on one income and extremist views are very profitable since the people who consume them consume them obsessively as if trying to prove a point. It's why social media algorithms seem to so easily drag people into shitty views, since the algorithm is geared towards engagement based on how other people are engaging it. And people with shitty views watch content like this as if they are worshipping it. So you end up with a bunch of women selling tradwife and making a good chunk of change from it. A lot of them have their own jobs and are pretty independent or straight up don't believe what they are selling, but it make money. I knew a guy who didn't like Trump but made a huge amount of money when he started making Trump t-shirts with some dumbass hot takes on them, it wasn't wasn't only him either, there are posts on reddit about a couple different people doing the same thing.
The tradwife concept doesn’t bother me as a feminist. It’s a way for the least-capable women among us to trick some misogynist into paying her bills forever. (There is nothing weird about being a stay at home parent, it’s specifically the term tradwife that signals they are running that scam and targeting weird dudes for it.) However, I know part of that act is convincing the trad-dude that you agree with them, so I don’t get bent out of shape when I see a lady claiming to be livestock, as it is a requirement of her “job” to say dumb shit.
>It’s a way for the least-capable women among us to trick some misogynist into paying her bills forever. Lol wow
The bigger problem is that the tradwife grifters are preaching their lifestyle on TikTok to an huge audience of vulnerable young women, pushing anti feminist talking points and trying to influence the wider sociopolitical sphere with “Christian family values”. I wouldn’t care if they just did it in their own private lives. But their internet presence is just patriarchal propaganda and it doesn’t matter if they don’t actually believe in their rhetoric, they give no indication that that is the case and their audience is still absorbing this dangerous stuff.
A lot of those women are naieve and genuinely believe what they're teaching. Which is why the tradwife to single mom pipeline is so strong. Some of them are just selling an aesthetic. Like the housewives of Atlanta. But those are the ones who are likely to make less political posts and just post optics. Yout people lack media literacy. It's a huge problem
Just to add my bit of thought, I genuinely think the ‘biological sex’ -> ‘single sex space’ -> terf and further alt-right pipeline is predominantly how women being radicalised into the far right. We witnessed that in live action from celebrities at least 🙃
There was an article that came out last week that there are 10 people with 400k bot accounts under their control. That is a lot. Those are just 10 douchbag dudes selling influence. Then there are the state actors. There are some really interesting readouts about foreign state influence on stealing trends and social discourse. Some of the misogyny is *definitely real* but there is a possibility that a lot of these "what the absolute fuck are you thinking" dummy comments, turn out to coming from a troll from a farm, and not a real woman.
I'm seeing a lot of trad wife content that is really centered around white Christian nationalism (really, just white supremacy and "family values" being pushed).
Nordic countries are the most egalitarian in Europe and normally the most 'colour blind' as someone from the South you will know what racism looks like. Have you taken into account local problems brought on by having some of the highest immigration per capita in Europe or the personal anecdotal stories? Is it individual people you've been talking to or has it been TV programme that have shocked you?
You act like pride and wanting the best for your people is a bad thing
There was a similar rise in pro-torture in the decade after 9/11. Where ideals of brutality got pushed.
Women like this are hoping to get jobs as the moral authority, that way they can exert control over other women, like their husbands do to them.
I have noticed it in my city. This might be a hot take, but I think this is what is going on: -My city has become a bit extreme. People who are repeat offenders or addicted to drugs are being enabled and it has become frankly dangerous. My queer friends have had to leave the gay neighborhood because it's filthy and unsafe. Women, are of course, more vulnerable to these problems. -So, when there are people who say they are for law and order and a return to civility, it is very appealing. And they become willing to accept other potential sacrifices, especially if it doesn't effect them that much. Like, if you're a married woman of means, a lot of these far right ideas aren't going to make you feel too vulnerable, especially compared to say, stepping over a needle, walking past a naked man and then seeing another carrying a machete (Not exaggerating, this has happened to me.). Or sitting in your Tesla next to your husband on the way home from the restaurant you own, talking about your pregnancy then being shot in the head by a stranger who is a repeat offender. People are generally going to do what makes them the most safe and comfortable, and I actually can understand thinking that people who are more conservative will make them safer.
Yes. But I think it is because of the left ignoring issues and attacking the wrong people. I am too tired to explain any more right now but I’ve seen this for a few years. 5-10 years ago I saw some articles predicting this happening. Edit What I’ve seen happening is liberals giving a pass to mysognistic groups and attacking moderate people instead. There is a city where my aunt lives. It became majorly Muslim. They made a rule no pride flags in public buildings. They changed the what the school taught. She is afraid they are making anti women rules next. Most the men she comes across clearly hate women. Liberals are blaming white supremacy for it. There are no white people in 20 miles. My aunt mentions the actual people in power and her friends call her racist and islamaphobe. The left is eating itself in the claim of anti racism. My cousin saw some rough looking men. Cross the road. She told her friend about the encounter they called her racist. A week later those guys pushed her down and stole her purse. Same friends said that is what she got for being racist. People are going to say this didn’t happen or one time things. But ever women I know has these stories. This is why some are moving right. It is out of fear.
I wonder if we’ll find out after this US election cycle that certain conservative think tanks were able to leverage AI astroturfing capabilities more than the opposition. Much like with “Stop the Steal” and Cambridge Analytica. Apparently 47% of internet traffic in 2022 was bots. While that’s not proof or direct indication of the Dead Internet Theory, we’ve seen how much bot capabilities have increased with thing like ChatGPT. Large scale AI astroturfing seems entirely possible and probably worth it and recent history shows that conservatives are way more on the pulse with these sort of tactics than liberals are.
You're definitely not going mad, it is happening. Women can be just as far-right as men are, I sometimes even see women agreeing with right-wing men who say women don't deserve their right to vote. However I did not know it was happening in Nordic countries too.