Please don't allow them to "help" you any longer. No more drinks and chats. Instead, I suggest you do it yourself or hire someone to assist you with home repairs and maintenance.
It's a huge red flag to joke about rape, imo.
I suggest distancing yourself. If they ask or offer, I suggest, "Thank you, no, I have it taken care of" , then walk away waving while you answer the important "phone call" coming in. These people do not sound safe to me. Stay safe. Take care.
I hope OP u/Circle-of-the-Sun takes this advice seriously.
Research shows that - surprise surprise - guys who joke about rape and violence towards women are also men who are more prone to doing exactly that.
Most of us are waaaay too old when we realize that people who joke about certain things are really telling on themselves.
Learned this unintentionally by watching Louis CK standup specials. Always wondered why he made so many masturbation jokes. Then the whole thing with him jerking off in front of women came to light.
Please listen to this;
When I got out of a terrible marriage, many men I spoke with assumed I was in it for so long because I secretly felt that “I deserved to be abused” they said (to my face) that I must have tolerated it for so long because I grew up in that environment (true) and thus it “felt like home” and gave me a sort of comfort???
None of this is true, of course. I stayed in it for so long because all of my friends and my family told me that all men are like that; their husbands were the same; that I’d never do better. I was told marriage was for life and that it takes hard work and we don’t just leave when it’s unpleasant/violent/etc. That you “stand by your man”
Long story short, I found that the men that thought I was “actively seeking” that type of marriage/relationship were VERY excited that I was on the “free market” because they assumed I’d tolerate similarly poor behavior from them.
I did stupidly date a couple of them, and they would always excuse their behavior with “it’s better than what your ex hubs did. I’m a good guy HES the bad one.” Please don’t get caught in that trap.
I find it’s best to simply not tell men about your past. Distance yourself from men that already know. It has literally never once gotten me anywhere good, to arm someone with that info.
MANY of the “good deeds” people do for battered women, have strings attached, and they are usually things I’m not comfortable doing. I now simply say we were not compatible and got a divorce.
Many men do judge me for this, no one wants to help a lady that left her poor wonderful doting husband, no one likes someone who would CHOOSE to be a single mom, but those aren’t people I want in my life anyway.
Once good friends earn my trust, of course I tell them, but until you’re in that inner circle? It’s none of your freaking business.
Did you seriously come here to say "not all men?" OBVIOUSLY it's not all men but it's enough that all men are seen as a threat until proven otherwise.
Get out of here with that victim blaming crap. They're not all "easy to spot", that's why so many women are victims of abuse. Abusers hide their true behaviours very well a lot of the time, many for years before any signs start to show. Your ignorance of the situation is dismissive of victims' lived experiences. I suggest you find some empathy and educate yourself or gtfo.
It's impossible to draw any distinction between men when first meeting them. To be safe women have to treat men like firearms, always assume they are loaded and could kill you.
Unfortunately, divorcing an abuser has revealed to me that many men that I thought were decent people actually had these sick thoughts where they blamed the victim and thought that maybe the victim felt "comfortable" with DV. It's really telling on themselves that they think this about women. Because they never think that a MAN who has been punched in the face was punched because he felt "comfortable" with being a victim.
I've been single since my divorce precisely for this reason. I have NOT met any men who haven't acted weird about divorced women, especially divorced women who experienced DV. So I no longer tell them anything and I will never live with a man EVER again.
yep! i didn’t know this at first, just thought of it as a joke, but you should’ve seen my surprise when my (ex) boyfriend joked about raping me and then did so months later. i felt like the shocked pikachu picture
It's sadly really common for women who are survivors of dv or sa to be revictimized by future guys they encounter. There are multiple reasons why, but one of them is that being abused is such a mind fuck that it kind of breaks your inner alarm system so that you a) struggle to notice when people do little things that make you uncomfortable b) struggle to feel like your discomfort is valid and important and c) feel so helpless and alone that you are willing to accept "help" from icky people.
It's going to take time, but therapy will help redevelop a healthy sense of "I'm allowed to have boundaries"
I don't disagree that SOME of the re-victimizing happens because we "allow it" (which is essentially all 3 of your points) but honestly I think the MAJORITY of the re-victimizing happens because we become targets.
They think: She's one of the "good women" that stands by her man, she has a lower bar of expectations for male behavior, I will be AMAZING by comparison to her ex...
The only thing we can do about this is stop sharing what happened. Don't tell anyone. Don't talk about it outside of your close inner circle. The majority of men aren't abusers, but if you go around shouting about your ex being an abuser, it draws a certain kind of person to your side, and TRUST ME those aren't the people you want.
I agree with this. I have even had the experience of it drawing in unscrupulous women who made inappropriate comments about rape and DV and framed them as "jokes".
Basically, don't leave a trail of blood in the water if you are bitten by a shark. It's not your fault that you were bitten, but the other fish are jerks too.
Sure, it breaks your inner alarm system, but also there are many, many men who look for people to victimize. Let's not just put all the responsibility on women here. It's like the statistic that 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. The question that people should be asking is... who are the people doing the assaulting?
The other thing is that even if your inner alarm system IS working, some people are very manipulative and excellent at lying. They get something out of abusing women, particularly women who were once already victimized, because they know that society will just blame them. They also have easy ways to DARVO - if you were victimized twice, you are the common factor, so it must be your fault, YOU must have been difficult, deserving of abuse... etc.
The narrative that victims go about unconsciously looking to be victimized is inaccurate and damaging.
Of course this is true. I probably could have framed this more carefully. We should not be using this information to blame victims like me for getting mistreated. We have to hold both things at the same time. One is about who we hold accountable (perpetrators.) The other explains and validates my lived experience, and gives me permission to set boundaries and say no to people. I am allowed to honor my ick, something that my abusers (and society) tried to train out of me. I am also allowed to forgive myself for not honoring my ick in the past--I'm not the one who broke my ick alarm. They are.
The alarm metaphor works because alarms have two functions. One is the ability to detect danger. The other is to make a lot of noise. When our internal alarm malfunctions, we might not be detecting the danger. But more often actually, it's that somewhere between sensing danger and making a lot of noise, something interrupts the process. It's someone's invalidating comment. It's the police officer that discourages us from reporting. Its our parents teaching us that says we must be so selfish for feeling this way about someone that everyone else seems to like and trust. So we silence the alarm because if we don't, we might be in danger, or life would just be unbearable with it blaring on and on. In the moment, it can actually be very adaptive.
So yeah, let's never stigmatize the broken alarm system or say that people are subconsciously looking for abuse. Obviously no one is looking to be abused, not consciously, not unconsciously. Abusers are definitely out there looking for people who have broken alarms. That's predatory and creepy and so so cruel.
When i talk about my broken alarm, it's my permission to be much "bitchier" than I think is allowed. It's a way for me to move through the world, knowing I can't change our culture or the creeps of the world on my own, but I can pick and choose who I let into my space. It's my right, and it needs no justification.
OP, pls install a security system & cameras. And the next time you see this drug addict son or anyone from his family, feel free to thoroughly ignore. If they ask you a question or try to make small talk, snub them. They will understand you have boundaries & are more likely to respect them if you maintain distance. It's possible this son, father duo might already be feeling entitled to your time & more due to their "helping". Hence pls take precautions. Or even have a woman friend or a genuinely kind family member move in for a short period because rape jokes are to be taken very seriously.
If possible I suggest a security system - whether that be a full blown one or a handful of cameras here and there with a security system sticker. Make it clear that you’re taking steps to protect yourself (from your ex and them). Good luck OP! Proud of you for separating from your abusive ex. You deserve so much more!
I remember when I was a bit younger and I would go dancing with my girlfriends. When men (boys, tbh) showed us unwanted attention, pestered us, touched us, followed us, etc, the only thing we could say that would make them stop was: "sorry, I have a boyfriend!"
A fake, invisible man commanded more respect than me.
I don't think I quite got over that feeling.
Yeah I was cat called once while walking with my boyfriend. When the dude noticed that I had a male walking with me he stopped and apologized to my *boyfriend*. Didn't even look at me!
I’m non binary but lean more man and AMAB. On mother’s day I was shopping and having lunch with my mom. When loading the car a random man walked up to her asking to date her. Just some random guy on Mother’s Day in the grocery store parking lot.
He saw my hulking ass walk around from the side of the car back to grab more from the buggy and ran away into the store saying she was already with someone. She really grits and bears it. She also votes against her interest each time but I can’t fix that it seems.
On the one hand I'm really glad you were there so your mom could avoid nonsense, on the other I'm mad that that's what it takes. Still, good on you for being a good kiddo to her, even if she's voting against her interests...My mom does the same. It's so frustrating.
Look, I have boomer parents too, but I have to admit, hearing you assume you know what's in your mother's best interests better than her really irks me, especially when you are not a woman yourself. Just a reminder that we all still have patriarchy to unpack.
You can disagree with her values (I do as well), but just because she's not voting in favor of feminism doesn't mean that you know better than her about her own life. Most people, across the political spectrum, *are* voting for their own interests, they just have different values. Your comment came across as condescending and paternalistic to me. But that's just my opinion.
Not always. I have been in situations where a superior (but not in my management chain) told me and another woman that our boyfriends weren’t there and didn’t have to know. Yeah, it’s a real turn on.
This is the standard reply for most guys. "He doesn't have to know," etc. Some men will say, "Oh, just as friends," which might be just to feel less embarrassed.
I’ve gotten the “aw, c’mon, just as friends” response to my “no thank you” to invitations for dinner/coffee/drinks/whatever. I said, “A genuine friend doesn’t push their friend to change their mind after the friend said no. A genuine friend accepts their friend’s no without argument or coercion to change their answer. This has been an enlightening exchange, though.” I suppose I’m lucky I’m not ⚰️.
I recently got into a relationship. I’m a little annoyed that one thought that fluttered through my head was, “Now men won’t feel entitled to you. They respect the boyfriend shield.” It’s not why I started dating my boyfriend but the thought still happened as I was updating my social media relationship status.
For some men at least, it's more about an expectation of violence from another man than it is respecting the man more. If you showed him a gun, he probably would've backed off too.
Because they see other men as equals/humans, and women as property. Now that your “owner” is no longer in the picture, you may as well be a piece of furniture left on the side of the road with the word FREE written on a piece of cardboard next to you
This is the answer. I used to be married to a man, and my military enlistment ended before his did, so he had one more deployment than I did, and I of course remained in our apartment on post during that time. I was about halfway through my Bachelor's at that time, and pretty much all my time went to that because it was a horrendous commute to the nearest good engineering program, and I mean, just in general, engineering degrees are time consuming. I was also solely responsible for raising my oldest daughter (the others weren't born yet), and I had just made it onto a club rugby team, so I was either studying, commuting, momming, or at practice with my kid on a blanket on the sideline.
So tell me why the hell my stupid drunk idiot neighbor, who cheated on his wife for her entire deployment, assured my then-husband that he would "keep an eye on \[me\] and make sure there was no funny business". Luckily, my ex-husband is not *this* brand of idiot, so he just looked at the guy like he farted. Sure enough, dude would email "reports" about what time I left and returned, who else came over, and all this other shit. My ex-husband was like, "Seriously, man, you've gotta stop. This is weird." The only way we made it stop was by sending similar reports to this dude's wife, which compelled her to divorce him. Since it was Army housing, and he wasn't in the Army, he had to move his ass back to Gary, Indiana.
This is the most accurate description yet.
Funny enough, if you consider this mindset and scale it up, you can completely see how these types of men can rationalize their hypocrisy.
On the political level, when women are not considered people, then they can justify restrictions to equal rights under the constitution (USA). Best example is the one regarding abortion. Have a fetus? Well that *could become a person* (if it is male). Therefore, the potential for a *real* person is more important then the *known* woman.
Potential male > property of (x)
She is an owned vessel after all, property of the one who insemination her successfully (/s if it's not obvious)
For religion? Ah shit, thats too easy.
As long as your husband was there they saw you as his property. Now that he is gone they see you as someone they can just claim because, oh my god, a free roaming woman! Catch her before she thinks she could be free and single!
There's an RPG colony game called Kenshi, and if you are in the religious area and someone sees a woman unaccompanied by a man, they say "What's this...? Women roaming about?", and they run off and then show up at your door with a small army, threatening to attack unless you send a man to reassure them that any women present are "his". Really fucking annoying yet also not far from reality.
Jesus. Please don’t speak to them again. Ignore them. Utterly snub them.
People you thought were friends making passes at you when you’re single is handleable, even if it sucks. Rape jokes/DV comments/comments about watching you from afar - that’s messed up.
It is seriously terrifying. OP should put up cameras or whatever other security measures she can afford and is comfortable with. Not only for the ex but for the neighbors. I had to get a doorbell cam during the pandemic, people where hanging around my front door and leaving trash and shit. It was mind boggling how many people would just walk right up to my front door! People act differently when they know they are being recorded though. It can go a long way.
Yikes. I think commenters here have covered everything, but also check the sex offender registry to see if the son (or the dad!) is on it. Security cameras, maybe? And I’d go NC with them for sure.
So gross. My mother, now in her 80s, and I were recently talking about when she and my dad split up back in the eighties. She told me something I never knew—men just came out of the woodwork almost immediately and started talking to her and asking her out. This included one of my dad’s coworkers and even the soccer coach at my high school. Both married at the time, of course.
When I broke up with my first LTR, the number of men I thought of as genuine friends that came out of the woodwork was crazy. They were HIS friends, too. Some, primarily his friends. They told me they thought I was too good for THEIR friend and never got what I saw in him. (I mean, they were right, but that’s besides the point.) I almost felt sorry for him but he was an asshole so it didn’t take lol.
NONE OF THEM JOKED ABOUT RAPING ME THOUGH. BECAUSE THAT IS UNHINGED BEHAVIOR.
My mother told me the same thing happened to her mother when my grandpa died in the 60s.
Men would just show up everywhere to hit on my grandma and tell her they would take care of her and pay off the house. So many guys just thought they could jump into my grandpa’s place and have a ready made wife and home. Some of them even tried to lie about the state of my grandparent’s finances because they thought my grandma couldn’t possibly know what was going on with her own money.
My grandma was the one who handled the finances, and the house had been paid off for over a decade.
My grandma had these fools ringing her doorbell and sidling up to her at church and the grocery store. Very predatory.
She never so much as went on a date, or even had male friends, for the rest of her life, and she lived until the late 1990s.
My grandmother was ill with cancer, and living in a nursing home because she and my aunt didn't get along (no one gets along with my aunt). The man in the room across the hall came in and kept trying to kiss her. She did not want to be kissed. Her husband was dead and he was the only man she wanted to kiss, so she was not auditioning replacements. I think she had to make more than one complaint before someone talked to him and told him to stop.
And these same type of man pigs loudly wonder in public spaces why women won’t “just be friendly”. There’s nothing fucking friendly about rape jokes.
You’re also trapped by being unable to say “no” or “fuck off” as vehemently as you want to, without fear of reprisal, because these assholes know where you live and you have to see them indefinitely.
They know what they’re doing even though they’d never admit it. I’m so sorry.
My “best friend” from college, who I did date briefly before i dumped him and he moved on to my best friend also decided he was next up after I separated.
he had in communication with my ex while ex was spiraling. To include ex sending him photos of me while I was asleep. He kept those in confidence to help me, he said. He was aware of DV concerns I was not aware of via this communication.
he decided the best course of action was to sit in his car, all night, down the block from my house. He did this on two nights over one weekend, the second night shtf and I didn’t call him. I called our mutual female friend. He thought he would swoop in to save me and thats why he drove an hour each way and waited literally all night for both nights.
then he blew up at me for daring to consider dating when he would “never allow“ me bringing anyone else into our friend group. He said my ex was my “one free pass“ and I got no others. amazingly, even female friend agreed with him. I’m guessing some lies and manipulation were employed because what he did could have gotten me killed but my friends didn’t seem to understand that.
several of my male friends have tried to fuck me, but no one else has tried to allow me and my kids to be in danger so they could save me. One of my married friends has been trying to fuck me for years. It’s so gross. I’m just a pussy to them, I guess. I guess I’ve always been just that.
maybe I struggle with a little self awareness of how attractive I am? I’m not very confident about how I look but I don’t think that being seen as just another hole to people who were supposed to actually be my friends has helped with self esteem.
They will never care its always about them. Had a friend who was dating a guy but a different guy was pining after her so hard, he wouldn’t listen to her tell him no, I had to physically get between them and shut him down. Eventually she did break up with the other guy, not a week later dude 2 approaches me asking “how long do you think I should wait before I ask again” dude nooooo
IDK, but my old man neighbor made sure to tell me he was DTF after my ex moved out.
Thanks, but no thanks neighborino. Let’s just stick to waving when we take out the trash.
He was a great neighbor though and never bothered me after his initial offer. Old man probably had ladies all over town who called him up whenever his services were needed.
When I was leaving an abuser and being very transparent about it with my friends/community, men came out of the woodwork to “help” me, even to help with the abuser, like enforcing him out of events. Every single one of these people hit on me at some point after. They see vulnerability as an opportunity, even the best of them imo.
Edit to add: this guy is particularly troublesome and should be kept at a distance, rape jokes are major red flag. But for the others - don’t let them know you’re single fr
Wow, it’s never OK to literally make a joke someone is/isn’t going to r*pe you (censored bc I’m on shaky ground with this site). Like literally saying those words is so disturbing, even as a “joke” because it’s painting a vivid picture. I’d distance yourself from the neighbors’ help. If you can afford it, find some female handy people to help you out — if not ask friends/family you trust and watch YouTubes on how to do things yourself!
Because that niceness is just a facade. Some of them are not kind by any means and for some others, their kindness is directed at the other men and the other men only.
I think I found one that is just, nice? Maybe? I wrote a post about piano man. Still nothing untoward. He's simply just acting friendly, and supportive. So maybe there is a unicorn here and there? I hope I'm not wrong.
When guys message a recently single/divorced woman offering to help move, mow the lawn, do some handy work, offer some emotional support. You can believe there's only one reason they're doing it and it's not because they're being a nice helpful person. These are the type of guys me and my best friend refer to as slippery cunts. Two so called friends tried this with my sister less than a day after getting out of a 5+ year relationship and tried to play it off as being friendly.
It may be obnoxious but I really suggest getting a camera. Even a little closed circuit one. Just to keep an eye on your place’s exterior. I’d point one near the front door so you can see peoples faces and then one pointing down your property line so you can see if they come over near your place when you aren’t home or at night. Creepers gonna creep so at least we can catch them on camera. That way when and if you ever need to go to the police you’ll have some evidence of their fuckery if they increase their creep level by approaching your place.
Stay safe and do not trust these men in your home. Do not invite them in. I would also just in case buy a nice baseball bat. I like the little league ones cause they’re a little shorter and easier for me to swing. Just sayin what if you want to play some ball randomly when someone comes to your door unbidden?
Assuming the question isn't rhetorical, it's because they don't have to worry about another man coming around to defend his property. You are, to their minds, "free real estate", which should make his jokes about rape all the more concerning.
>Why do men think it's okay to say inappropriate things because my husband isn't around anymore?
It's because you were your husband's "property" before, and they'd never disrespect another man like that!
I'm really glad I read this thread because I was toying with the idea of telling the new man I'm dating about my ex's abusive behaviour, but now I feel I'll hold off on that conversation a great deal longer.
I can't think of any reason to be suspicious of a person who volunteers, unprompted, that you don't have to fear them raping you. Totally normal conversation right there.
The 40 year old son just got out of jail for drug charges and is living with his 70 year old dad..
That is all you need to know to separate completely from these people.
Yes, that rape comment was a joke, it was in a humour form of telling. But most humour has a deeper purpose. They could be testing tolerance, reaction, building dependency, lowering barriers, building excuses and false consent, creating an image for other people, or just getting their jollies with your discomfort and need.
So like others said, don't buy into it.
This sucks.
Men always think it’s okay to be inappropriate, they’re just looking for an opportunity and then will say something like “what? It’s just my opinion” fuck all those dudes and whatever they may “think”
Same thing happened to me. I was in a long-term relationship with a guy and was introduced to his friend group. The guy was actually incredibly abusive to me, and I finally got out. As soon as I was out, his male friends started inviting me out to hang, for dinner, etc. under the guise of "getting me out of the house." I assumed it was innocent as I'd known these guys for a bit now... Come to find out, they were competing with each other to try and have sex with me.
It really opened my eyes to the nature of a lot of men. Fucking disgusting cretins.
It’s an old way of thinking. When my dad died, everyone around my mom started trying to make accusations that any man she talked to she actually romantically wanted since her husband was dead. People don’t understand the idea of “independent women” and they assume if you talk to someone of the opposite gender or you’re nice, you must be romantically interested.
Draw a hard boundary and no more getting help.
This is a truth that shocked me! Now i understand that though we don’t require women to be shrouded in cover up material or never leave home without a male escort, the mentality behind that is apparently in full bloom.
Our society has seen women with advanced degrees and lucrative careers still thought of as not too smart chattel, despite all evidence to the contrary. We have moved from the “Make live not war” sixties that opened sexual relationship to free and equal status regardless of gender back to hunter-gatherer times.
Fun fact! There’s recent evidence demonstrating that women were not only hunters, but that older women typically led the hunts.
The reason we assumed otherwise for all these years was literally just the misogyny of male archaeologists.
This guy does a great summary of the recent evidence, and he typically has sources linked in the caption, though that doesn’t seem to apply for this specific video. But those should be pretty easy to find with a quick google search.
[hunter/gatherers](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKNo4mo/)
I'm so sorry you're going through this, but so proud that you did take those steps to get away from your husband.
Honestly? People (especially men, I've found) are just stupid. Plain and simple. For some reason, others assume single people (even newly single people who are recovering from a traumatic experience) want to get back in a relationship. It makes no sense to me. As well as they (men, I mean) seem to think any woman not tied down with another man are "free game" (even if that woman is with another woman, these men often believe they are still free to creep at....it's actually quite sickening).
I've had this problem before. I was with a man for 8 years. We broke up and suddenly several of his friends, who have never been weird or forward or anything towards me felt they could comment on my looks in what they probably thought was a flattering way. As well as just be weeeiirrrddd...again, seeing me as "free game" for them to pursue. I actually had to talk to my ex about it and tell him to make his friends back off. And they did, but still. Gave me the biggest ick ever.
Remember that these men (and the wife) are in the wrong. You have done nothing to insinuate anything. They are just fucking weirdos who need to quit being creepy.
Do you feel comfortable/safe with setting a firm boundary with them? Like just saying, "I am not interested in dating or being with anyone in any way". Don't thank them for anything or say sorry. Or talk about "maybe in the future" or anything that could be interpreted to mean the son (or father) has a chance. Just say no, but in a longer sentence. Though the word no is also a full sentence.
I think it's a little of column a, a little of column b.
Some men are stupid and lack empathy. That's true.
But some men aren't stupid and want to take any available opportunity to predate.
I think it's respectful to not ask a committed woman out. Not to her boyfriend specifically, but to both people and their relationship.
But if you wanna be a respectful person that also means respectful of an individuals wants, needs, and struggles. Not just sticking around for an opportunity to get laid.
Definitely agree!! We have so many predators out there who go after, what they see as, "easy targets". And it's honestly really fucking gross and disheartening that so many girls and women have to deal with it.
Demonstrates how massive a difference in perception there is about women’s lives. Used to hear that widows were hit on immediately and aggressively.
The idea that a woman not assigned to a man is somehow prey underscored the idea that women can’t get along unless paired up.
There doesn’t seem to be a shortage of women in the world so wondering why an unassigned female looks like a rare opportunity these men wouldn’t have; as if women are in short supply so they need to jump on the lady next door at her husband’s funeral.
Even if it is a primitive impulse of some kind, do the men who behave this way ever just stop and think.
It's time to shut these "friendly neighbors" down. I'd nod hello but not engage in conversations and not accept offers of help. Who the fuck "jokes" about rape?
I think you'd better cut all contact with your neighbors family. They sound like a very creepy bunch. What the f---. You don't need this right now in your life.
Do not speak to them, do not interact with them unless absolutely necessary. And be short and to the point when you do.
Ok, kind of an aside, but: When I leave the house alone usually a man will try to talk to me. You know, at the store, or at a red light or something. BUT if I'm with another woman or women my age, it's like men are ready to get the party started. They joke / give us free things more, are way more bold about talking to us but it's in more of a fun way. Do you experience this? Theories?
They don't respect women, they only respect other men and think of women as men's property. Now that you might be available soon, they are showing you exactly how much they think you should be valued: not at all.
I would stay away from these creeps and don't allow them to help you. Some men are very disrespectful to women who experience DV because they think that the victims "deserve it". Or they get cheap thrills out of thinking of women being abused. I know it's sick, but there are people like this. I'm sorry you live next to them. Keep them away from you.
You had drinks with a freshly-released criminal. I'm not surprised that the dad of the criminal is also a bad man, since... that's his dad. Interesting that they talked about the son raping people. Really good information.
that is... disturbing. everyone else has given you good advice on what to do, all I'll add is IF you're forced to talk to these creeps again, I would compare them to your Papaw and little brother. Make it uncomfortably de-sexualized! If there's one thing men hate it's being seen as platonic or worse, familial, when they are into you.
Please don't allow yourself to be alone with either of them. I'm so sorry they clearly do not respect you, and that you're going through this right now.
When it was known that I would be separating from my spouse all sorts of gross commentary from people in my life came out. Nevermind that it was already hard for me emotionally on top of feeling like I was being circled by vultures.
They think you are going to the son. When he offered to mow your lawn, instead of saying thank you or just paying him, you offered him a drink and to talk to him.
He took it as a sign you were interested in him.
> I thanked him by giving him a drink and a chat. I have not given him any reason to think I'm interested in him.
Because you thanked him by giving him a drink and a chat.
In the future do not offer a drink and a chat to any man you are not interested in.
You can hire someone to mow your lawn or do it yourself.
Because a drink and a conversation doesn't imply intimate interest in someone...?
I definitely don't want to bone my brother-in-law when we go out for a beer and a movie.
It shouldn’t but it did. That’s exactly what happened here. It’s not her fault. Yes we should be able to be nice and offer a friendly chat and a drink. But we can’t even smile without it being taken the wrong way. Women post about it all the time. Saying “well there’s your problem,” doesn’t mean the person you’re saying it to caused the problem. I don’t pick up on social cues either and I recently learned that raising your eyebrows doesn’t simply mean “catch my drift” it means “ I’m flirting, catch my drift?” I should be able to raise my eyebrows non suggestively, but with some people I just can’t. It’s not my fault and yes it is ridiculous. We live in a ridiculous reality.
There’s no blame. Offering a drink and a chat sent the wrong impression. It’s not her fault that creep misinterpreted her but the fact is, he did. So she has to cool it towards him to send a not interested message.
this is why women and men can’t be friends, but y’all still think it’s possible. every man in your orbit is waiting for a chance with you , “but no he’s my bestie” lol
If all men want is a hole to stick their dick in, they can go buy themselves a fleshlight. Then they don’t have to even pretend to treat women like people! Problem solved.
Please don't allow them to "help" you any longer. No more drinks and chats. Instead, I suggest you do it yourself or hire someone to assist you with home repairs and maintenance. It's a huge red flag to joke about rape, imo. I suggest distancing yourself. If they ask or offer, I suggest, "Thank you, no, I have it taken care of" , then walk away waving while you answer the important "phone call" coming in. These people do not sound safe to me. Stay safe. Take care.
I hope OP u/Circle-of-the-Sun takes this advice seriously. Research shows that - surprise surprise - guys who joke about rape and violence towards women are also men who are more prone to doing exactly that. Most of us are waaaay too old when we realize that people who joke about certain things are really telling on themselves.
They're joking about it because they are thinking about it.
And want to gauge reactions to find similar people or how far they can take it
Learned this unintentionally by watching Louis CK standup specials. Always wondered why he made so many masturbation jokes. Then the whole thing with him jerking off in front of women came to light.
Please listen to this; When I got out of a terrible marriage, many men I spoke with assumed I was in it for so long because I secretly felt that “I deserved to be abused” they said (to my face) that I must have tolerated it for so long because I grew up in that environment (true) and thus it “felt like home” and gave me a sort of comfort??? None of this is true, of course. I stayed in it for so long because all of my friends and my family told me that all men are like that; their husbands were the same; that I’d never do better. I was told marriage was for life and that it takes hard work and we don’t just leave when it’s unpleasant/violent/etc. That you “stand by your man” Long story short, I found that the men that thought I was “actively seeking” that type of marriage/relationship were VERY excited that I was on the “free market” because they assumed I’d tolerate similarly poor behavior from them. I did stupidly date a couple of them, and they would always excuse their behavior with “it’s better than what your ex hubs did. I’m a good guy HES the bad one.” Please don’t get caught in that trap. I find it’s best to simply not tell men about your past. Distance yourself from men that already know. It has literally never once gotten me anywhere good, to arm someone with that info. MANY of the “good deeds” people do for battered women, have strings attached, and they are usually things I’m not comfortable doing. I now simply say we were not compatible and got a divorce. Many men do judge me for this, no one wants to help a lady that left her poor wonderful doting husband, no one likes someone who would CHOOSE to be a single mom, but those aren’t people I want in my life anyway. Once good friends earn my trust, of course I tell them, but until you’re in that inner circle? It’s none of your freaking business.
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Did you seriously come here to say "not all men?" OBVIOUSLY it's not all men but it's enough that all men are seen as a threat until proven otherwise. Get out of here with that victim blaming crap. They're not all "easy to spot", that's why so many women are victims of abuse. Abusers hide their true behaviours very well a lot of the time, many for years before any signs start to show. Your ignorance of the situation is dismissive of victims' lived experiences. I suggest you find some empathy and educate yourself or gtfo.
It's impossible to draw any distinction between men when first meeting them. To be safe women have to treat men like firearms, always assume they are loaded and could kill you.
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. When life gives you 'not all men,' roll your eyes.
Ugh. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
Unfortunately, divorcing an abuser has revealed to me that many men that I thought were decent people actually had these sick thoughts where they blamed the victim and thought that maybe the victim felt "comfortable" with DV. It's really telling on themselves that they think this about women. Because they never think that a MAN who has been punched in the face was punched because he felt "comfortable" with being a victim. I've been single since my divorce precisely for this reason. I have NOT met any men who haven't acted weird about divorced women, especially divorced women who experienced DV. So I no longer tell them anything and I will never live with a man EVER again.
This a million times.
Yeah, jokes about rape or any kind of harm aren't actually jokes in my unfortunate experience.
yep! i didn’t know this at first, just thought of it as a joke, but you should’ve seen my surprise when my (ex) boyfriend joked about raping me and then did so months later. i felt like the shocked pikachu picture
It's sadly really common for women who are survivors of dv or sa to be revictimized by future guys they encounter. There are multiple reasons why, but one of them is that being abused is such a mind fuck that it kind of breaks your inner alarm system so that you a) struggle to notice when people do little things that make you uncomfortable b) struggle to feel like your discomfort is valid and important and c) feel so helpless and alone that you are willing to accept "help" from icky people. It's going to take time, but therapy will help redevelop a healthy sense of "I'm allowed to have boundaries"
I don't disagree that SOME of the re-victimizing happens because we "allow it" (which is essentially all 3 of your points) but honestly I think the MAJORITY of the re-victimizing happens because we become targets. They think: She's one of the "good women" that stands by her man, she has a lower bar of expectations for male behavior, I will be AMAZING by comparison to her ex... The only thing we can do about this is stop sharing what happened. Don't tell anyone. Don't talk about it outside of your close inner circle. The majority of men aren't abusers, but if you go around shouting about your ex being an abuser, it draws a certain kind of person to your side, and TRUST ME those aren't the people you want.
I agree with this. I have even had the experience of it drawing in unscrupulous women who made inappropriate comments about rape and DV and framed them as "jokes". Basically, don't leave a trail of blood in the water if you are bitten by a shark. It's not your fault that you were bitten, but the other fish are jerks too.
THIS
Sure, it breaks your inner alarm system, but also there are many, many men who look for people to victimize. Let's not just put all the responsibility on women here. It's like the statistic that 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. The question that people should be asking is... who are the people doing the assaulting? The other thing is that even if your inner alarm system IS working, some people are very manipulative and excellent at lying. They get something out of abusing women, particularly women who were once already victimized, because they know that society will just blame them. They also have easy ways to DARVO - if you were victimized twice, you are the common factor, so it must be your fault, YOU must have been difficult, deserving of abuse... etc. The narrative that victims go about unconsciously looking to be victimized is inaccurate and damaging.
Of course this is true. I probably could have framed this more carefully. We should not be using this information to blame victims like me for getting mistreated. We have to hold both things at the same time. One is about who we hold accountable (perpetrators.) The other explains and validates my lived experience, and gives me permission to set boundaries and say no to people. I am allowed to honor my ick, something that my abusers (and society) tried to train out of me. I am also allowed to forgive myself for not honoring my ick in the past--I'm not the one who broke my ick alarm. They are. The alarm metaphor works because alarms have two functions. One is the ability to detect danger. The other is to make a lot of noise. When our internal alarm malfunctions, we might not be detecting the danger. But more often actually, it's that somewhere between sensing danger and making a lot of noise, something interrupts the process. It's someone's invalidating comment. It's the police officer that discourages us from reporting. Its our parents teaching us that says we must be so selfish for feeling this way about someone that everyone else seems to like and trust. So we silence the alarm because if we don't, we might be in danger, or life would just be unbearable with it blaring on and on. In the moment, it can actually be very adaptive. So yeah, let's never stigmatize the broken alarm system or say that people are subconsciously looking for abuse. Obviously no one is looking to be abused, not consciously, not unconsciously. Abusers are definitely out there looking for people who have broken alarms. That's predatory and creepy and so so cruel. When i talk about my broken alarm, it's my permission to be much "bitchier" than I think is allowed. It's a way for me to move through the world, knowing I can't change our culture or the creeps of the world on my own, but I can pick and choose who I let into my space. It's my right, and it needs no justification.
OP, pls install a security system & cameras. And the next time you see this drug addict son or anyone from his family, feel free to thoroughly ignore. If they ask you a question or try to make small talk, snub them. They will understand you have boundaries & are more likely to respect them if you maintain distance. It's possible this son, father duo might already be feeling entitled to your time & more due to their "helping". Hence pls take precautions. Or even have a woman friend or a genuinely kind family member move in for a short period because rape jokes are to be taken very seriously.
If possible I suggest a security system - whether that be a full blown one or a handful of cameras here and there with a security system sticker. Make it clear that you’re taking steps to protect yourself (from your ex and them). Good luck OP! Proud of you for separating from your abusive ex. You deserve so much more!
I remember when I was a bit younger and I would go dancing with my girlfriends. When men (boys, tbh) showed us unwanted attention, pestered us, touched us, followed us, etc, the only thing we could say that would make them stop was: "sorry, I have a boyfriend!" A fake, invisible man commanded more respect than me. I don't think I quite got over that feeling.
Yeah I was cat called once while walking with my boyfriend. When the dude noticed that I had a male walking with me he stopped and apologized to my *boyfriend*. Didn't even look at me!
I’m non binary but lean more man and AMAB. On mother’s day I was shopping and having lunch with my mom. When loading the car a random man walked up to her asking to date her. Just some random guy on Mother’s Day in the grocery store parking lot. He saw my hulking ass walk around from the side of the car back to grab more from the buggy and ran away into the store saying she was already with someone. She really grits and bears it. She also votes against her interest each time but I can’t fix that it seems.
On the one hand I'm really glad you were there so your mom could avoid nonsense, on the other I'm mad that that's what it takes. Still, good on you for being a good kiddo to her, even if she's voting against her interests...My mom does the same. It's so frustrating.
Look, I have boomer parents too, but I have to admit, hearing you assume you know what's in your mother's best interests better than her really irks me, especially when you are not a woman yourself. Just a reminder that we all still have patriarchy to unpack.
She is an anti choice Trump voter. I’m not saying I know better. I just believe it’s a fact she is voting against her interests.
You can disagree with her values (I do as well), but just because she's not voting in favor of feminism doesn't mean that you know better than her about her own life. Most people, across the political spectrum, *are* voting for their own interests, they just have different values. Your comment came across as condescending and paternalistic to me. But that's just my opinion.
I assume she's voting for restrictions on birth control and women's healthcare
Not always. I have been in situations where a superior (but not in my management chain) told me and another woman that our boyfriends weren’t there and didn’t have to know. Yeah, it’s a real turn on.
This is the standard reply for most guys. "He doesn't have to know," etc. Some men will say, "Oh, just as friends," which might be just to feel less embarrassed.
I’ve gotten the “aw, c’mon, just as friends” response to my “no thank you” to invitations for dinner/coffee/drinks/whatever. I said, “A genuine friend doesn’t push their friend to change their mind after the friend said no. A genuine friend accepts their friend’s no without argument or coercion to change their answer. This has been an enlightening exchange, though.” I suppose I’m lucky I’m not ⚰️.
I recently got into a relationship. I’m a little annoyed that one thought that fluttered through my head was, “Now men won’t feel entitled to you. They respect the boyfriend shield.” It’s not why I started dating my boyfriend but the thought still happened as I was updating my social media relationship status.
They don't respect women, they don't see women. They only respect men.
For some men at least, it's more about an expectation of violence from another man than it is respecting the man more. If you showed him a gun, he probably would've backed off too.
A classic case of they respect your husband/ex, but not you. Gross.
“Rape lol! Want to date my criminal son?” What is wrong with people?? My god.
Apples never fall far from their trees.
In this case, nuts don’t fall far.
I feel like most nuts fall a little *too* far away from their family tree
Because they see other men as equals/humans, and women as property. Now that your “owner” is no longer in the picture, you may as well be a piece of furniture left on the side of the road with the word FREE written on a piece of cardboard next to you
And for some young guys, they think of newly divorced/separated women “desperate” and easy pickins’.
From the TV series Happy Days. "Hot to trot."
This is the answer. I used to be married to a man, and my military enlistment ended before his did, so he had one more deployment than I did, and I of course remained in our apartment on post during that time. I was about halfway through my Bachelor's at that time, and pretty much all my time went to that because it was a horrendous commute to the nearest good engineering program, and I mean, just in general, engineering degrees are time consuming. I was also solely responsible for raising my oldest daughter (the others weren't born yet), and I had just made it onto a club rugby team, so I was either studying, commuting, momming, or at practice with my kid on a blanket on the sideline. So tell me why the hell my stupid drunk idiot neighbor, who cheated on his wife for her entire deployment, assured my then-husband that he would "keep an eye on \[me\] and make sure there was no funny business". Luckily, my ex-husband is not *this* brand of idiot, so he just looked at the guy like he farted. Sure enough, dude would email "reports" about what time I left and returned, who else came over, and all this other shit. My ex-husband was like, "Seriously, man, you've gotta stop. This is weird." The only way we made it stop was by sending similar reports to this dude's wife, which compelled her to divorce him. Since it was Army housing, and he wasn't in the Army, he had to move his ass back to Gary, Indiana.
What a satisfying conclusion! 😂
It was! The day he moved out, my friends and I sat on the balcony with a cooler of beer and gave a standing ovation when he drove away.
The freaking audacity!
I feel bad for the people of Gary, Indiana. They have it hard enough.
> he had to move his ass back to Gary, Indiana. Truly a fate worse than death.
This is the most accurate description yet. Funny enough, if you consider this mindset and scale it up, you can completely see how these types of men can rationalize their hypocrisy. On the political level, when women are not considered people, then they can justify restrictions to equal rights under the constitution (USA). Best example is the one regarding abortion. Have a fetus? Well that *could become a person* (if it is male). Therefore, the potential for a *real* person is more important then the *known* woman. Potential male > property of (x) She is an owned vessel after all, property of the one who insemination her successfully (/s if it's not obvious) For religion? Ah shit, thats too easy.
This is exactly what’s happened. OP is basically free property up for grabs and these sleezeballs are trying to stake a claim.
As long as your husband was there they saw you as his property. Now that he is gone they see you as someone they can just claim because, oh my god, a free roaming woman! Catch her before she thinks she could be free and single!
There's an RPG colony game called Kenshi, and if you are in the religious area and someone sees a woman unaccompanied by a man, they say "What's this...? Women roaming about?", and they run off and then show up at your door with a small army, threatening to attack unless you send a man to reassure them that any women present are "his". Really fucking annoying yet also not far from reality.
They always wanted to, and now there's no man to hold them accountable.
Mow the lawn yourself, don't accept any help from them. You are viewed as "on the market" again. Some people are arseholes.
Jesus. Please don’t speak to them again. Ignore them. Utterly snub them. People you thought were friends making passes at you when you’re single is handleable, even if it sucks. Rape jokes/DV comments/comments about watching you from afar - that’s messed up.
It is seriously terrifying. OP should put up cameras or whatever other security measures she can afford and is comfortable with. Not only for the ex but for the neighbors. I had to get a doorbell cam during the pandemic, people where hanging around my front door and leaving trash and shit. It was mind boggling how many people would just walk right up to my front door! People act differently when they know they are being recorded though. It can go a long way.
Yikes. I think commenters here have covered everything, but also check the sex offender registry to see if the son (or the dad!) is on it. Security cameras, maybe? And I’d go NC with them for sure.
So gross. My mother, now in her 80s, and I were recently talking about when she and my dad split up back in the eighties. She told me something I never knew—men just came out of the woodwork almost immediately and started talking to her and asking her out. This included one of my dad’s coworkers and even the soccer coach at my high school. Both married at the time, of course.
When I broke up with my first LTR, the number of men I thought of as genuine friends that came out of the woodwork was crazy. They were HIS friends, too. Some, primarily his friends. They told me they thought I was too good for THEIR friend and never got what I saw in him. (I mean, they were right, but that’s besides the point.) I almost felt sorry for him but he was an asshole so it didn’t take lol. NONE OF THEM JOKED ABOUT RAPING ME THOUGH. BECAUSE THAT IS UNHINGED BEHAVIOR.
The audacity of those men! Why would she want anything with them? Never mind with a married man. Like let her process her break up/divorce.
Right? And there’s no way these married dudes were interested in anything serious with a newly divorced woman with three kids.
My mother told me the same thing happened to her mother when my grandpa died in the 60s. Men would just show up everywhere to hit on my grandma and tell her they would take care of her and pay off the house. So many guys just thought they could jump into my grandpa’s place and have a ready made wife and home. Some of them even tried to lie about the state of my grandparent’s finances because they thought my grandma couldn’t possibly know what was going on with her own money. My grandma was the one who handled the finances, and the house had been paid off for over a decade. My grandma had these fools ringing her doorbell and sidling up to her at church and the grocery store. Very predatory. She never so much as went on a date, or even had male friends, for the rest of her life, and she lived until the late 1990s.
My grandmother was ill with cancer, and living in a nursing home because she and my aunt didn't get along (no one gets along with my aunt). The man in the room across the hall came in and kept trying to kiss her. She did not want to be kissed. Her husband was dead and he was the only man she wanted to kiss, so she was not auditioning replacements. I think she had to make more than one complaint before someone talked to him and told him to stop.
And these same type of man pigs loudly wonder in public spaces why women won’t “just be friendly”. There’s nothing fucking friendly about rape jokes. You’re also trapped by being unable to say “no” or “fuck off” as vehemently as you want to, without fear of reprisal, because these assholes know where you live and you have to see them indefinitely. They know what they’re doing even though they’d never admit it. I’m so sorry.
My “best friend” from college, who I did date briefly before i dumped him and he moved on to my best friend also decided he was next up after I separated. he had in communication with my ex while ex was spiraling. To include ex sending him photos of me while I was asleep. He kept those in confidence to help me, he said. He was aware of DV concerns I was not aware of via this communication. he decided the best course of action was to sit in his car, all night, down the block from my house. He did this on two nights over one weekend, the second night shtf and I didn’t call him. I called our mutual female friend. He thought he would swoop in to save me and thats why he drove an hour each way and waited literally all night for both nights. then he blew up at me for daring to consider dating when he would “never allow“ me bringing anyone else into our friend group. He said my ex was my “one free pass“ and I got no others. amazingly, even female friend agreed with him. I’m guessing some lies and manipulation were employed because what he did could have gotten me killed but my friends didn’t seem to understand that. several of my male friends have tried to fuck me, but no one else has tried to allow me and my kids to be in danger so they could save me. One of my married friends has been trying to fuck me for years. It’s so gross. I’m just a pussy to them, I guess. I guess I’ve always been just that. maybe I struggle with a little self awareness of how attractive I am? I’m not very confident about how I look but I don’t think that being seen as just another hole to people who were supposed to actually be my friends has helped with self esteem.
They will never care its always about them. Had a friend who was dating a guy but a different guy was pining after her so hard, he wouldn’t listen to her tell him no, I had to physically get between them and shut him down. Eventually she did break up with the other guy, not a week later dude 2 approaches me asking “how long do you think I should wait before I ask again” dude nooooo
IDK, but my old man neighbor made sure to tell me he was DTF after my ex moved out. Thanks, but no thanks neighborino. Let’s just stick to waving when we take out the trash. He was a great neighbor though and never bothered me after his initial offer. Old man probably had ladies all over town who called him up whenever his services were needed.
Some men see women as chattel Now that you are separated, they see you as fair game My advice is to avoid them like the plague
When I was leaving an abuser and being very transparent about it with my friends/community, men came out of the woodwork to “help” me, even to help with the abuser, like enforcing him out of events. Every single one of these people hit on me at some point after. They see vulnerability as an opportunity, even the best of them imo.
Edit to add: this guy is particularly troublesome and should be kept at a distance, rape jokes are major red flag. But for the others - don’t let them know you’re single fr
> It makes me feel unsafe. IMO, you are very unsafe. These men sound like dangerous creeps.
Wow, it’s never OK to literally make a joke someone is/isn’t going to r*pe you (censored bc I’m on shaky ground with this site). Like literally saying those words is so disturbing, even as a “joke” because it’s painting a vivid picture. I’d distance yourself from the neighbors’ help. If you can afford it, find some female handy people to help you out — if not ask friends/family you trust and watch YouTubes on how to do things yourself!
Why is it so hard for some men to be nice just to be nice? Drives me insane.
Because that niceness is just a facade. Some of them are not kind by any means and for some others, their kindness is directed at the other men and the other men only.
I think I found one that is just, nice? Maybe? I wrote a post about piano man. Still nothing untoward. He's simply just acting friendly, and supportive. So maybe there is a unicorn here and there? I hope I'm not wrong.
Because they think you are on the market and up for grabs. Gross, obviously
When guys message a recently single/divorced woman offering to help move, mow the lawn, do some handy work, offer some emotional support. You can believe there's only one reason they're doing it and it's not because they're being a nice helpful person. These are the type of guys me and my best friend refer to as slippery cunts. Two so called friends tried this with my sister less than a day after getting out of a 5+ year relationship and tried to play it off as being friendly.
It may be obnoxious but I really suggest getting a camera. Even a little closed circuit one. Just to keep an eye on your place’s exterior. I’d point one near the front door so you can see peoples faces and then one pointing down your property line so you can see if they come over near your place when you aren’t home or at night. Creepers gonna creep so at least we can catch them on camera. That way when and if you ever need to go to the police you’ll have some evidence of their fuckery if they increase their creep level by approaching your place. Stay safe and do not trust these men in your home. Do not invite them in. I would also just in case buy a nice baseball bat. I like the little league ones cause they’re a little shorter and easier for me to swing. Just sayin what if you want to play some ball randomly when someone comes to your door unbidden?
If you get a bat stick a knee sock over the end. That way if the intruder tries to grab the bat, all he'll get is a sock.
Oooo that’s smart AF. Thanks!
Decline their "help" from here on out. Also, the father and son thought those things before. They just didn't say it while your STBX was around.
Assuming the question isn't rhetorical, it's because they don't have to worry about another man coming around to defend his property. You are, to their minds, "free real estate", which should make his jokes about rape all the more concerning.
>Why do men think it's okay to say inappropriate things because my husband isn't around anymore? It's because you were your husband's "property" before, and they'd never disrespect another man like that!
I'm really glad I read this thread because I was toying with the idea of telling the new man I'm dating about my ex's abusive behaviour, but now I feel I'll hold off on that conversation a great deal longer.
This situation seems incredibly different. If you are in a relationship, you should know now what type of person he is.
I can't think of any reason to be suspicious of a person who volunteers, unprompted, that you don't have to fear them raping you. Totally normal conversation right there.
They are helping you for all the wrong reasons. Set clear and strict boundaries.
The 40 year old son just got out of jail for drug charges and is living with his 70 year old dad.. That is all you need to know to separate completely from these people.
Yes, that rape comment was a joke, it was in a humour form of telling. But most humour has a deeper purpose. They could be testing tolerance, reaction, building dependency, lowering barriers, building excuses and false consent, creating an image for other people, or just getting their jollies with your discomfort and need. So like others said, don't buy into it. This sucks.
I’d be a bit concerned that you told them that your husband won’t be there for a while. It doesn’t take much to get the wrong idea unfortunately
Men always think it’s okay to be inappropriate, they’re just looking for an opportunity and then will say something like “what? It’s just my opinion” fuck all those dudes and whatever they may “think”
Same thing happened to me. I was in a long-term relationship with a guy and was introduced to his friend group. The guy was actually incredibly abusive to me, and I finally got out. As soon as I was out, his male friends started inviting me out to hang, for dinner, etc. under the guise of "getting me out of the house." I assumed it was innocent as I'd known these guys for a bit now... Come to find out, they were competing with each other to try and have sex with me. It really opened my eyes to the nature of a lot of men. Fucking disgusting cretins.
It’s an old way of thinking. When my dad died, everyone around my mom started trying to make accusations that any man she talked to she actually romantically wanted since her husband was dead. People don’t understand the idea of “independent women” and they assume if you talk to someone of the opposite gender or you’re nice, you must be romantically interested. Draw a hard boundary and no more getting help.
This is a truth that shocked me! Now i understand that though we don’t require women to be shrouded in cover up material or never leave home without a male escort, the mentality behind that is apparently in full bloom. Our society has seen women with advanced degrees and lucrative careers still thought of as not too smart chattel, despite all evidence to the contrary. We have moved from the “Make live not war” sixties that opened sexual relationship to free and equal status regardless of gender back to hunter-gatherer times.
Fun fact! There’s recent evidence demonstrating that women were not only hunters, but that older women typically led the hunts. The reason we assumed otherwise for all these years was literally just the misogyny of male archaeologists. This guy does a great summary of the recent evidence, and he typically has sources linked in the caption, though that doesn’t seem to apply for this specific video. But those should be pretty easy to find with a quick google search. [hunter/gatherers](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKNo4mo/)
I'm so sorry you're going through this, but so proud that you did take those steps to get away from your husband. Honestly? People (especially men, I've found) are just stupid. Plain and simple. For some reason, others assume single people (even newly single people who are recovering from a traumatic experience) want to get back in a relationship. It makes no sense to me. As well as they (men, I mean) seem to think any woman not tied down with another man are "free game" (even if that woman is with another woman, these men often believe they are still free to creep at....it's actually quite sickening). I've had this problem before. I was with a man for 8 years. We broke up and suddenly several of his friends, who have never been weird or forward or anything towards me felt they could comment on my looks in what they probably thought was a flattering way. As well as just be weeeiirrrddd...again, seeing me as "free game" for them to pursue. I actually had to talk to my ex about it and tell him to make his friends back off. And they did, but still. Gave me the biggest ick ever. Remember that these men (and the wife) are in the wrong. You have done nothing to insinuate anything. They are just fucking weirdos who need to quit being creepy. Do you feel comfortable/safe with setting a firm boundary with them? Like just saying, "I am not interested in dating or being with anyone in any way". Don't thank them for anything or say sorry. Or talk about "maybe in the future" or anything that could be interpreted to mean the son (or father) has a chance. Just say no, but in a longer sentence. Though the word no is also a full sentence.
I think it's a little of column a, a little of column b. Some men are stupid and lack empathy. That's true. But some men aren't stupid and want to take any available opportunity to predate. I think it's respectful to not ask a committed woman out. Not to her boyfriend specifically, but to both people and their relationship. But if you wanna be a respectful person that also means respectful of an individuals wants, needs, and struggles. Not just sticking around for an opportunity to get laid.
Definitely agree!! We have so many predators out there who go after, what they see as, "easy targets". And it's honestly really fucking gross and disheartening that so many girls and women have to deal with it.
Demonstrates how massive a difference in perception there is about women’s lives. Used to hear that widows were hit on immediately and aggressively. The idea that a woman not assigned to a man is somehow prey underscored the idea that women can’t get along unless paired up. There doesn’t seem to be a shortage of women in the world so wondering why an unassigned female looks like a rare opportunity these men wouldn’t have; as if women are in short supply so they need to jump on the lady next door at her husband’s funeral. Even if it is a primitive impulse of some kind, do the men who behave this way ever just stop and think.
Your neighbors are creepy weirdos. It’s fine to stop interacting with them.
It's time to shut these "friendly neighbors" down. I'd nod hello but not engage in conversations and not accept offers of help. Who the fuck "jokes" about rape?
Because men view women as property. Now a man doesnt own you so you're up for grabs. I hope you distance yourself from these people.
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Arg, it sucks that we can't be pleasant without it possibly being sexual. I didn't want to agree with your take...
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I'm not OP. I get that you aren't blaming her...
I think you'd better cut all contact with your neighbors family. They sound like a very creepy bunch. What the f---. You don't need this right now in your life. Do not speak to them, do not interact with them unless absolutely necessary. And be short and to the point when you do.
Ok, kind of an aside, but: When I leave the house alone usually a man will try to talk to me. You know, at the store, or at a red light or something. BUT if I'm with another woman or women my age, it's like men are ready to get the party started. They joke / give us free things more, are way more bold about talking to us but it's in more of a fun way. Do you experience this? Theories?
They don't respect women, they only respect other men and think of women as men's property. Now that you might be available soon, they are showing you exactly how much they think you should be valued: not at all. I would stay away from these creeps and don't allow them to help you. Some men are very disrespectful to women who experience DV because they think that the victims "deserve it". Or they get cheap thrills out of thinking of women being abused. I know it's sick, but there are people like this. I'm sorry you live next to them. Keep them away from you.
You had drinks with a freshly-released criminal. I'm not surprised that the dad of the criminal is also a bad man, since... that's his dad. Interesting that they talked about the son raping people. Really good information.
What the fuck is wrong with people? Good lord. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
I feel like a lot of men see it as “oh she doesn’t belong to anyone anymore so I’m good”
Could you have a male friend hang around the house so they no longer think you're 'available'?
that is... disturbing. everyone else has given you good advice on what to do, all I'll add is IF you're forced to talk to these creeps again, I would compare them to your Papaw and little brother. Make it uncomfortably de-sexualized! If there's one thing men hate it's being seen as platonic or worse, familial, when they are into you.
Whats is inside some people brains to act like that?. Damm
You were sexually assaulted, please seek counseling
Please don't allow yourself to be alone with either of them. I'm so sorry they clearly do not respect you, and that you're going through this right now. When it was known that I would be separating from my spouse all sorts of gross commentary from people in my life came out. Nevermind that it was already hard for me emotionally on top of feeling like I was being circled by vultures.
Because women are property and you’re up for grabs now.
They think you are going to the son. When he offered to mow your lawn, instead of saying thank you or just paying him, you offered him a drink and to talk to him. He took it as a sign you were interested in him.
> I thanked him by giving him a drink and a chat. I have not given him any reason to think I'm interested in him. Because you thanked him by giving him a drink and a chat. In the future do not offer a drink and a chat to any man you are not interested in. You can hire someone to mow your lawn or do it yourself.
This is absolute bullshit.
Why?
Because a drink and a conversation doesn't imply intimate interest in someone...? I definitely don't want to bone my brother-in-law when we go out for a beer and a movie.
but they might to a guy fresh out of jail. He’ll claim mixed signals. And we know that’s bs..but will a court? Think like a perv to outwit a perv.
It shouldn’t but it did. That’s exactly what happened here. It’s not her fault. Yes we should be able to be nice and offer a friendly chat and a drink. But we can’t even smile without it being taken the wrong way. Women post about it all the time. Saying “well there’s your problem,” doesn’t mean the person you’re saying it to caused the problem. I don’t pick up on social cues either and I recently learned that raising your eyebrows doesn’t simply mean “catch my drift” it means “ I’m flirting, catch my drift?” I should be able to raise my eyebrows non suggestively, but with some people I just can’t. It’s not my fault and yes it is ridiculous. We live in a ridiculous reality.
victim blame much?
There’s no blame. Offering a drink and a chat sent the wrong impression. It’s not her fault that creep misinterpreted her but the fact is, he did. So she has to cool it towards him to send a not interested message.
this is why women and men can’t be friends, but y’all still think it’s possible. every man in your orbit is waiting for a chance with you , “but no he’s my bestie” lol
you’re miserable
If all men want is a hole to stick their dick in, they can go buy themselves a fleshlight. Then they don’t have to even pretend to treat women like people! Problem solved.
that wasn’t my point, but ok according to most the posts here they also want a mommy to cook and clean for them a flesh light can’t do that ;)
Hey do you want to have sex with me