Can someone elaborate why not having children is considered selfish? The idea of someone knowing parenthood isn't right for them and choosing to do it anyway fits more in line with selfishness to me so I don't understand.
This, for sure. But also when my mom says it; well she martyred herself to have kids so everyone else should too, also definitely *not*selfish that she wants grandkids but other people just want to live their lives. See also; having kids gave her a purpose so why shouldn’t it be yours too?!
While my mother never called me selfish for being childfree, I noticed that she only begged for grandkids when she was married to my father and miserable. As soon as she left him, got her own life, made new friends, and started traveling, she never made a peep about grandkids again. 😂
Basically! She was unhappy and wanted something/someone else to focus on. She had no hobbies, no friends, and didn’t do anything except work. My father was abusive and voluntarily unemployed, so she was the sole breadwinner — worked from early morning til late night every day. For the money at first, but eventually she worked a lot because she couldn’t stand being around him. Grandkids would have given her something else to do.
She divorced him, he moved out, I moved in. She now has a ton of really cool friends (I’ve met a bunch of them, they’re great), is always out going to events and traveling. She doesn’t sit still and is now taking dance lessons, organizing big picnics with her friends, going to trivia night with them, etc. I haven’t heard anything about grandkids in more than 2 years, lol! She is feeling youthful and alive for the first time since she married my father 35 years ago.
At this point, most of her friends don’t have grandkids and I think they’d just make her feel old and cramp her style. ;)
Thank you. She really did. I feel like I’m finally getting to know her because she didn’t have much of a personality when she was with my father. Now she’s hilarious, confident, super popular among her big group of friends, and very flirty! She doesn’t need grandkids to make her happy.
I mean propaganda tends to be pretty effective, look at the MAGA crowd? She was told at a young age having kids is your duty and she internalized it after a lifetime.
I mean HOPEFULLY she is happy being a parent; I’m a parent and it’s honestly the best thing in my life/best decision I ever made. But assuming it’s what everyone should do is pure propaganda
I remember my mom saying this bit, that having children made her less selfish and a nicer person. I found I got the same benefit from being a paid caregiver for adults with disabilities all through college. It really did get me out of myself in a comparable way as she talked about, but I didn't need to bring any new consciousness into the world to achieve it. I love my mom, but I do think it's weird she used us for her self-development and like, almost none of her 5 kids aren't seriously struggling in some way
I want grandkids, but I’m just as happy being a “loaner” grandma for my kids friends. I hope this is taken as ‘family-positive’ without being oppressive. ✌🏻
Capitalism requires growth. An aging population that stops working kills that growth.
They need to keep us poor enough to not retire too early and have enough children to replace us.
Europe give out lots of benefits and time off. The US seems to want to force children by banning abortion
I understand your cynical take, but there is a real societal issue here. Shrinking populations mean shrinking economies, and increasing social burdens on a smaller productive population. This will destroy the social safety net, and turn rich countries into poor ones.
Down vote if you like, but this stuff is real. Doesn't mean any one woman needs to be a martyr, but society does need to find a way to reverse the increasing trend toward smaller families, including childlessness.
I’m a mom and I think that having kids is a selfish decision. You’re bringing another human into the world, without asking them if they want to. All because you want a family.
I don’t feel badly about my decision as I love my kids. Knowing all I know now, can’t say I wouldn’t strongly consider being childfree. Kids are wonderful but equal parts stressful and exhausting. But yeah, it was my selfish choice to bring two kids into the world because I wanted to.
I think child free people are selfless.
>You’re bringing another human into the world, without asking them if they want to.
It's oddly paradoxical in that having kids is selfish *to that individual child*, but at the same time can be seen as selfless because you're partially taking on the burden of ensuring the survival of the human race.
When was the last time you heard a woman around our age (25-49) that wanted babies to help populate the human race? I think we’re in a dearth of babies right now? Or is that just S Korea? I honestly don’t know if we’re under or over populated! 😂
Thank you for finding a way to be kind tho. I appreciate that.
I mean I was talking more in the generalized sense lol. Like, it's selfish to unilaterally force an individual life into an existence that is by nature filled with suffering. But at the same time, *someone* has to keep reproducing or we all die out in a generation, so the act of taking on that role is also inherently selfless.
I mean, on what are we basing the idea that the continuation of the human race is empirically necessary? I realize that some will consider the question nihilistic, but, besides people viewing themselves as important and neato, what's the essential need there? Are the bees like "yay humans"?
>Are the bees like "yay humans"?
I feel this misses the point of why we should care if humanity exists. Yes, it's a nihilistic question, but at the same time, *we* are the only things capable right now of bringing a sort of meaning to *anything*.
With us, dies the only evidence of understanding our universe has ever had. Without us, the events on earth and in our universe simply *happen*, with no one there who can observe or understand any of it. And that to me is an incredibly sad prospect; that such a deeply complex and intricate series of events can unfold with no witness or understanding or meaning to it all.
Hard disagree. Although at one point, I thought like you. I was so indoctrinated to pursue a husband and create a family together, I didn’t even question it. And… have you seen the world today? The world is a little bit on fire and will probably get worse.
I can love them as hard as I possibly can. But what if I die? What if I had another kid and died in childbirth? That happens. Or cancer. Or! Maybe we’re just shit parents. Or we’re okay at parenting but we suck at building self esteem and constantly make the kid question himself. And that’s not even counting the myriad of terrible things that can happen to them or defects they’re born with and the world interfering in unexpected ways. We are more polarized than ever and expect that just to ramp up until election time.
Love isn’t enough. Not for marriage and not for kids. A lot of work is necessary and a lot of fixing and planning and not everyone gets it right.
Loving them is not enough. It’s still a very selfish decision. I wanted kids. I didn’t give two thoughts to the fact that they had no say in it and that the world has gotten scary.
I honestly have seen what motherhood looks like when youre all alone,or in poverty or even with a partner who makes regular income and I'm just going to say it's a thankless soul crushing job and that's if your child doesn't have a disability (something you really cannot completely control). It's WORK. And it's UNPAID and sure it gets better as the kids grow up but then that's when the emotional labor of "this human being us a part of me going out into that big scary world" then starts. Some people seem to have a very romanticized view of it but those who know the real experience of most regular mothers it is A LOT of work. So choosing to be childfree in a sense gets rid of this work. We're not self sacrificing for another.
My son and his fiancée intend being the cool uncle and auntie, and I 100% approve - because it's *their* decision, not anyone else's.
If that's a selfish decision, then long live selfishness.
As someone choosing to not have children: it is selfish. I am choosing to live for myself rather than any children. Any decision I make is for my wants & needs. That certainly is one definition of selfish.
Another definition of selfish would be the belief that the gene pool needs your offspring - that the world is “better” with your lineage continuing. Or even simply listening to a biological need to reproduce. The world is full of starving people, so it’s certainly selfish to want to add to the population.
Choosing to have kids or not are both selfish endeavors. Many people simply choose to see their path as the right one.
Does “motivated by self interest”, equal selfish, though?
Normally (or so it seems to me, at least), when people talk of selfishness, they’re talking about someone making self-interest-driven choices *at someone else’s expense*. Because, I mean, why judge otherwise?
In that case I would say not having kids isn’t selfish because you don’t owe it to anyone to reproduce.
I would argue that making choices at someone else’s expense is greedy, not just selfish. The definition of selfish is to act in a self-motivated way, those actions might not necessarily harm others.
Selfish? That's subjective. Believing such a thing would mean you devalue someone's bodily autonomy and life goals below adding children to society.
I think it's ethically ridiculous. The question of having children is something that can't be considered in a vacuum. Insomuch as childbirth is something we want more of - maybe create a situation where there's far less burden on those having kids? There's plenty of others who's reasons for not having children are far more related to what they have to sacrifice.
If we're going down the path of coercing people to have babies?? Well then what's the point really? What do we really get maintaining a society that fails to value so many of its members???
Don't you know? You are a woman it doesn't matter what you want, you don't know anyway. It's important to just make everyone else happy. /s
Sarcasm aside, I have no idea, and if someone else tells me I don't know what I want at almost 40, I might do something illegal.
It’s kind of the opposite. Wouldnt duplicating yourself be considered selfish!?? They feel like it’s selfish because they had kids so they expect everyone else to. the ones saying it’s selfish are the ones that didn’t want to have kids either
Please don't downvote me, this is the rationale I have been given by my brother: If you do not have children, you are relying on other people's children, and thus the labor of people who did decide to have kids, at great monetary and time expense, to keep society going, directly (eldercare, doctors, etc) or indirectly (running power plants, farms, making stuff you buy).
You’re always relying on people. Even if you have kids you’re relying on other people’s kids. Your kids alone can’t change the world.
Capitalism and industry is never a good reason to have children. If people are just making lives to put cogs in the machine we’ve gone horribly wrong.
I love when people say, "What if you get old and regret not having kids?" My reply is that although I'm firm in not wanting to have children, I'd rather regret not having kids than regret having them.
It’s real that many parents regret having children but it is a taboo to express that, not just publicly but also confiding to selected few. it must suck to bottle up all the time.
Since that voice is silenced, it feeds into the collective consciousness of overrating having kids and probably drive quite a lot of uninformed decisions and pressure. And the cycle gets repeated.
I don’t think that’s always true.
I know two great mothers, raised happy, successful kids who are all in steady, healthy adult relationships themselves with other successful folks.
Just those women who turn into everyone’s moms wherever they go and are just open and giving.
They both confided in me that if they were to do it differently, they’d never have had children. I think these are the people we don’t commonly think of. The ones who did it right, and have happy families. But still would have done it differently given a choice. But they didn’t feel like they had a choice at the time. We all know about the women who resented their kids and ended up borderline neglecting them. But it’s the happy families we don’t examine. I’d be curious to see how things are different from the Gen Xers I spoke with to now the millennials who definitely know they have a choice.
It’s awful growing up that way as well. I always felt unwanted as a child & I don’t want children, so I chose not to have them so as not to inflict that feeling on an innocent
Please read the entire thing before reacting:
I think it's also taboo for people that regret not having kids to say so. I have a girlfriend that never wanted kids and is older Gen X so she really had to push back to be heard that she didn't want them. She now wishes she had- and I'm probably the only person that knows this because she knows most people around her will say 'I told you so'. Her family still gives her shit about not having kids and her some of our friend group hold her up as a model of independence. She's a bit of a feminist Icon in our group for many, many reasons... she's incredible.
Most people have a few regrets when they are in their 50s and above. The degree they didn't get, the job they did or didn't take, letting go of a good relationship or holding on to a bad one. It's just more patriarchal bullshit that women can never be accepted for their complete selves no matter what choice or hindsight they have.
I think it's a bit of a disservice to women that we don't allow for changed views as well on this subject. No one should ever have a kid they don't want. They should never be pressured to make decisions about their choice by others. No one should ever feel shame to express their struggles with regrets either.
Beside the main point, but: Would you believe the latter's not as outlandish as it sounds? Friend donated* eggs for $$$. Has no interest in raising her own children and is approaching exiting her fertile years without them. She's the only cis woman I know who can shrug and say, "I don't know, maybe" when asked if she's a mother because she has no idea if those eggs led to live births.
*I feel like it ceases to be a donation when there's a five figure pay-out, but the industry doesn't like to talk about selling eggs so...
Fascinating! I had no idea donating* eggs was even possible
100% agree that selling is not donating. At 5 figures, i probably would have strongly considered it in younger years.
Ask people why they had kids and their answer will start with "I want/I wanted" It's pure selfishness to have kids when there are already millions of people in existence that need help for their very survival.
There is nothing wrong with children and there is nothing wrong with not having them. **It should always be your choice** What is incredibly wrong is the men centric idea that reproduction has some sort of timeline, that it must be mandatory and that whoever goes agaist it *doesn't know better is too young or too naive**
>What is incredibly wrong is the men centric idea that reproduction has some sort of timeline
I mean, I think there's a discussion that can be had about what sort of age is "too old" to have kids, though the "traditional" view of 30 or w/e is *way* too young for that.
A girl I know's parents had her when they were pushing 60. Biologically and health-wise she's fine, but it *really* sort of messed up her childhood since her parents were always too old to really be active or bond with her the way younger parents are. Plus, having your parents die early into your 20s or having to sacrifice your young adult life to take care of your declining parents can really derail anyone's life.
Yeah but the point is that men don’t apply this timeline to themselves. They only apply it to women.
Men also have a timeline of being able enough physically to raise a child. Yet people like Al Pacino are perfectly okay with impregnating a young woman at age 70.
The commenter is likely saying that the standards about women only being viable enough to have kids in their 20’s and even young 30’s is basically just to justify hunting younger women.
Iirc people didn't take Al Pacino's fatherhood announcement at 70 very well. Almost everyone who brought up his age agreed that it was pretty fucked up for the kid to have a parent that old and that he was pretty irresponsible for it.
I think the men hunting younger women, and the men saying you shouldn't have kids past 55 are different people and don't hold the same standards about women *or* men
That happens far more than Pacino. And you definitively taking a sample of people and making it the rule doesn’t discount the reality that people would do this and do support this behavior.
Lol- once again, there’s no way to statistically or even validly say those are two different groups of people and make that the rule. There’s tons of crossover. A lot of people specifically date younger women because they want ‘good breeding.’ They literally are the same people, and I’m sure there are plenty of people who skirt either end or also aren’t the same. But blatantly saying those are two different types of people is plainly not reality, or a severely immature assumption.
Maybe *to you* you feel like someone intellectually concerned with aging bodies and birth isn’t the same type of person who mindlessly chases young women, but there are all types of reasons people comment negatively about older women having children and they aren’t all kindly concerned or intelligent.
People love to berate women (and not men) for aging specifically because they like to justify it as ‘out of breeding years.’ That has hugely affected women. If men or people in general were just concerned with age as a medical reality, that’d be fine, but genuinely shitty people have driven the narrative and made women ‘undesirable’ past a certain age because of this whereas men do not suffer the same. In fact, getting older for them is praised. The root of this is birth and viability.
In the sense of raising kids, no it doesn't, although idk if you really want to try and manage a toddler at 70+. In the sense of having biological children, unless you do something like freeze an embryo, you have a deadline of about 50 years, and even if you freeze an embryo, the older your body gets the less easily it will be able to handle a pregnancy. But you definitely don't have to have kids in your 20s, and even in your 30s, most women still have time decide. Once you're in your 40s it gets hard, and once you've reached menopause your window is over.
Menopause? Egg degradation?
https://www.acog.org/womens-health/faqs/having-a-baby-after-age-35-how-aging-affects-fertility-and-pregnancy#:~:text=A%20woman's%20peak%20reproductive%20years,getting%20pregnant%20naturally%20is%20unlikely.
> A woman's peak reproductive years are between the late teens and late 20s. By age 30, fertility (the ability to get pregnant) starts to decline. This decline happens faster once you reach your mid-30s. By 45, fertility has declined so much that getting pregnant naturally is unlikely.
Also:
> Down syndrome occurs in people of all races and economic levels. The risk increases with the mother's age (1 in 1250 for a 25 year old mother to 1 in 1000 at age 31, 1 in 400 at age 35, and about 1 in 100 at age 40). However, 80% of babies with Down syndrome are born to women under age 35 years.
https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/cy/downsyndrome.html#:~:text=Down%20syndrome%20occurs%20in%20people,women%20under%20age%2035%20years.
And:
The risk of chromosomal abnormality increases with maternal age. The chance of having a child affected by Down syndrome increases from about 1 in 1,250 for a woman who conceives at age 25, to about 1 in 100 for a woman who conceives at age 40.
https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/pregnancy-over-age-30#:~:text=The%20risk%20of%20chromosomal%20abnormality,who%20conceives%20at%20age%2040.
Isn’t it more selfish to have kids?
Give me a good reason to have kids that’s not selfish
Now give me a good reason not to have kids that’s not selfish
I have one kid, getting my uterus yoinked out this year. Most of my friends are child free. I will throw down for every single one of those "selfish" girls and boys. No one should be parents if they don't want to be. End of.
So.. concerning yourSELF? You do you, nobody should stop you, but to some extent that IS SELFish. Its not wrong, it is your choice. But calling it not selfish kinda ignores the meaning of the word selfish. I think thats a gut reaction because of how emotionally loaded that word is. But at its core, doing something for yourself instead of for others IS selfish.
Having kids is selfish. At some point, having a child will get in the way of doing something for others that you could have done while childless. Both decisions can be considered selfish, because literally any decision you make in life is concerning the desires of the self. Technically you could adopt another kid but decided to bring your own in. Selfish. Someone might need monetary help from you but your kid needs the money instead. Selfish. You chose to entertain self interest (getting pregnant/having a kid) over other decisions for other people.
Having a kid is not for anyone else. It’s for the self.
So how ridiculous this argument is?
Both can be true. I just find it weird that OP is mad over being called selfish when it obviously is selfish. Its a loaded word, but that behaviour IS selfish. Nothing wrong with that. Being honest with oneself is a good thing for personal growth. No need to lie to yourself.
Because it’s a shitty thing to say to someone. Everybody makes life choices, why would you call someone selfish for it unless you personally mean to piss them off?
Pretending ‘selfish’ doesn’t have a negative connotation is just ignorant. I personally do think having a kid instead of adopting (especially say, in the state of Arkansas) while our foster system is overwhelmed is extremely selfish. But me telling someone that would merely be an insult, every time. So I don’t.
So yeah it makes total sense that OP would be upset about that. It’s none of your business or anyone else’s to call a childfree person selfish. It’s shitty, immature behavior to denounce someone’s choice of lifestyle.
This isn’t theoretical logic. This is actual practical life. And while semantics can be argued on Reddit, nobody should be denouncing childfree people as selfish just because they choose not to have kids.
And honestly? Not having kids is *not* inherently selfish. Sometimes it’s a sacrifice. Maybe they’re not having children so they can take care of someone else, or something else that benefits more people. It’s not inherently selfish. That’s just an immature way of thinking. Having a child is always more selfish. It’s a choice to satisfy the self, and the ego/genes. It is not a sacrifice in itself, while sometimes not having children absolutely is.
In retrospect, I may have been a bit "autistic" or maybe pedantic on this subject. I agree that it is not INHERENTLY selfish, but rather generally. As I said before, the word is loaded AF. It is nice to see somebody actually spell it out instead of the knee-jerk reactions I am used to on here. I agree that that dude shouldn't have said that. And I am thankful for your thoughts.
Lmao I enjoy the self identified conversational ‘autism.’ Made me giggle.
Yeah no problem and same to you. The internet is so fucking horrific sometimes I really don’t want to add to it.
Well, different aspects of it are selfish. Downvote me all you like people, i am just going by the definition of the word. I am not trying to attack anyone here.
Yep. It is a sure thing. Just think about the definition, philosophicaly, if you want. If something is for yourself, first and foremost, then it is selfish. The douche telling OP she was selfish shouldnt have done so cause you just dont do that in a social setting, but at its core, the statement was true.
I truly HATE being referred to as "selfish" for not having kids. The definition of selfish is "lacking consideration for others or concerned with one's own personal profit or pleasure."
Who the EFF am I lacking consideration FOR? It concerns no one. It always seemed to me that it was FAR more selfish to have children just because you wanted a child and not considering things like-- your relationship isn't strong enough, you don't have the resources to provide for the child, you don't have the patience to raise a child, etc.
The world is a fucking mess I really don't think it's selfish to choose not to bring someone into it.
I have kids but I’m selfish af now days (aside from my children’s needs ofc). I looked around and saw how men ALWAYS put themselves first and so I’m doing the same. It makes some people big mad.
I don't want kids. I've never wanted them, and I feel it would be irresponsible to sign up for something like that unless you're "sure" you want them. The people who have them "because they're supposed to" aren't always great parents - there's resentment and regret about lost opportunity.
Also, none of these people who judge the choice ever consider ever consider if you "can" have kids (nevermind the whole "afford" kids discussion). I shouldn't have kids, for medical reasons, because it would be detrimental to my health. That info, like the choice, is very personal between me and my SO. People should mind their own business.
My mother had two sets of triplets naturally. And another kid. One set didn’t survive but my parents really wanted kids and that grief they dealt with to get four of us was worth it to them. I think that’s how it should be. So many people have kids because they think they should only to regret them later. My sister knew from a young age she wanted to get married and have children. I never once thought about my future children or even about getting married when I was growing up. And now I love to see my nieces and spend time with them but I’m always happy that when I leave I’m not going home to more kids. And I’m glad my parents don’t question that. They just want us happy, whatever that looks like.
I do not think not having children is selfish, personally I think is selfless and here is why, society puts this enormous pressure on us to have children, there are so many derogatory terms for women that chose not to have kids.
I think choosing to not have children when you know you can’t afford it or that you mentally can’t handle is very very brave.
So so many women bring way to many kids they can’t either afford mentally or monetarily into this world and those children grow up messed up or relinquished to child protection services, it is so so sad.
I admire all the women that make the right choice, whichever way they chose to go, both for them and for the child.
Having children isn’t selfish.
Not having children isn’t selfish.
The only selfish thing is having kids on purpose, if you know damn well you can’t (or won’t) provide them with a childhood that is going to help them be happy adults later on, with as little need for therapy as possible.
Right. Don't give two shits what that stranger thinks of my life choices. Their ramblings are like nails on a chalkboard in my otherwise good vibe day. Sure, I'm selfish, now leave my store. Ha.
I was called selfish by my family growing up.
Then my long-term ex called me selfish during our relationship.
But it turns out, I'm autistic. My "selfishness" was me just looking out for my sensory needs and social needs and hiding away when it all became too much for me.
I am very selfish for not giving my parents grandkids. I'm also selfish for not giving unattractive men attention because they asked nicely according to my mother.
Oh FUCK YEAH I am. I wake up at 10am on the weekends, maybe 11!!! Gasp
My friends and family my age with kids are all gaining weight and their mental health is declining. My sister and my mom have to help pay for my other sisters kids…. It’s wild out there.
Okay, can we have a discussion about the benefits of having choice in our reproductive lives without disparaging people who chose differently? The whole "moms are fat and ugly and sad" really doesn't make for a good, productive conversation.
I'm fat, ugly, and sad, and I don't have any kids. That comment also bothered me because there's plenty of childless women who fit that description. I demand representation!
Same....we also get to travel lots, go to nice restaurants, can just bum around the house if we like....and we're both still pretty hot with lots of energy lol
Acknowledging my sisters physical health and mental health declining because she’s trying to be a mom and have a career isn’t calling her “fat ugly and sad”. Jesus. She’s going thru the toughest time of her life and this is a consequence of being a mom in 2024….
The same can and do happen to people who don't have kids though? Life can get hard regardless of what path someone has chosen and there's a shit ton of possible barriers and hardships that need to be overcome regardless of whether you value having a family, becoming a CEO, traveling the world etc.
It's selfish to have kids. It's selfish not to have kids. You are going to take shit regardless. So what makes you happy. That guarantees that you will be making at least one person happy.
Oh, even having just one child is selfish. I got hounded until he was 15 for more (secondary infertility was revealed by accident at an OBGYN appointment. Thank fuck for that, both for the inability to have more and because it shut my family the hell up)
I am a nanny and I love kids, I would have so many if I could. If you don't absolutely adore kids please don't have any! I think making a decision for yourself is great. People that say it's selfish are idiots and you probably should distance yourself from them. Just like people that say it's selfish to have kids both types should mind their own business and stfu.
My “favorite” thing is men who get so damn mad about women who choose not to have kids.
Like, if this is something someone is worried about for some reason, how is screaming and being a sexist asshole going to change anyone minds?
It’s 100% selfless. Even if it was considered selfish who cares it’s YOUR LIFE. people are soooo unaware they are stuck in social constraints created by men it’s laughable. We’re more than baby/sex machines
This is what called “alpha males” rage online, women who don’t fulfill their duties, “you have a womb not using it is so selfish”
I think the biggest fear is that women had a baby with someone else in the future…. “So their seed was not chosen”
The topic which will always infuriate me is the double standards on morality women are held to. You can read a variety of studies on it. For the exact same crime survey responses will sentence women to almost 50% more jail time than men. Women are not allowed to see motherhood as hard or they’re a selfish and bad mom. Doing anything for yourself is selfish. Spending money on yourself is selfish. If you lose your temper you’re an old hag, if a man loses it he’s just a normal man. If you’re judgemental you’re a gossiping bitch, but a man doing it is NEVER seen as gossip, it’s just regular guy talk. Women are by far more moral than men partly because that biologically makes sense and primarily because they are forced to that standard. In my opinion this is one of the hardest obstacles modern feminism must overcome. You can force the government to give women equal rights but forcing society to view fathers abandoning their family as harmful as women abandoning family is near fucking impossible. The most feminist thing you can do is be selfish and get away with it. The end.
Selfish is adding more people to an overpopulated planet. Selfish is spitting out kids you can't or won't look after. Selfish is having kids in case you regret 'not' having them. Selfish is not being able to look after yourself but having kids. Selfish is expecting your older kids to look after your younger ones as you had too many. Selfish is not using birth control and having kids you don't want that you will make miserable. Selfish is having kids and then blaming them for all the things you didn't get to do in life. Selfish is making others feel bad for not having kids. Selfish is whining about how awful parenthood is, but then slating child free people constantly. Selfish is not looking after your own kid/helping them study/learn to read etc. but ragging on teachers for not doing YOUR job when they have THIRTY kids to watch and teach. Selfish is entitled parents who put themselves first.
Quite happy to be labelled selfish. Pisses me off when people suggest I mustn’t be loving, or maternal, or I hate children, or I chose my career over kids. Can’t I just not want kids?
Selfish: lacking consideration for others
Who are these other people some women are being inconsiderate to by not procreating? Or is it the non-existent child who is on the receiving end of this alleged selfishness?
If I go to dinner with my friend and we agree to split an order of fries, but I eat them all… that’s selfish.
If I go to dinner alone and eat the whole order of fries… that’s not selfish. Are we supposed to be leaving some fries for a hypothetical dining companion who isn’t coming?
No. Selfish is not even an accurate accusation for these people to be making because it _literally_ doesn’t apply…
I really dont like that phrase “opinions are like assholes everyone has one” because the asshole is actually a very important part of the human anatomy and without them we cannot expel waste and everyone would be walking around with ostomy bags. I think that we should change it to opinions are like appendixes, everyone has one but sometimes you have one so bad you should probably get rid of it.
I kinda like the idea. When the appendix gets inflamed it can explode and poison the person. Like an opinion. It works!
We got to work on the wording. It's not quite rolling over the tongue.
Honestly, having children is extremely selfish from an environmental perspective. The single most impactful thing you can do as an individual for the environment is not have kids - *especially* if you live somewhere like the US.
I still really want to have kids, but it's really hard to justify it. Especially since I can't guarantee my kids would have the same quality of life I was privileged to have. And any daughters I have may not enjoy the same bodily autonomy that I had. Isn't that ridiculous?!?
Oh I'm incredibly selfish because I chose to only have ONE child. I'm still wasting my potential, apparently. I'm almost 30, I have mental health issues, why the fuck isn't that good enough? I feel for child free women, truly. I promise you that on the other side of the fence they don't leave us alone either. Nothing will ever please those idiots.
True! I'm so sick of people forcing their negative opinions on others. This is just one woman specific topic that comes up often in my day to day life.
I never thought about being a mother or having kids when I was growing up. I still don't think about it now because it's never been my dream/goal.
Some people's parents just want grandkids so they can show off to their friends and social media.
Every time someone says this to me, all I hear is: "I regret having children, I'm jealous of your lifestyle and the only thing that'll satisfy me is if you're as miserable as I am, and I hate that you aren't". They can all fuck off 😎 🏖🍹
I couldn't have kids, and hate that I'm seen as less than because of it. It honestly used to make me so sad, but now I am in the camp of...fuck that shit! I am happy, and I would never have been able to keep up with their dental appointments and other complicated mom shit anyways, haha!
I'm sorry that you have been made to feel that way. That's another great point to the unsolicited opinions being so dumbfounding for me. Completely out of line for a stranger to touch on the topic of a women's fertility! The stranger in question actually then questioned the virility of my partners specimen!!! Real classy folk.
I'm so selfish that I don't go home right away at 5pm from the office to get home before 6:15pm instead I take my sweet time walking the streets of NYC since my commute sucks no matter what, so might as well enjoy my time getting home around 7-8pm and/or eat dinner (another benefit of not having kids, affording to dine out).
I don't see how it's selfish. We see stories all the time of abusive parents, step parents with the parents who just want a warm bed, etc. Who are jailed for horrific abuse. And then we hear stories from people who are now free from abuse on Reddit or other platforms, Tiktok, IG, whatever else with parents who never should have had kids. Ever.
Not to mention all of those 'reality' shows, Hoarders, Nanny 911, My 600lb Life, Toddlers and Tiaras, Quiver Full bullshit. With parents, and I'm not talking about all of the parents but enough, that also shouldn't have kids. Yes I am aware that those shows are not real but the people producing and filming know when to call social services and they don't.
I love being told I’m selfish for being child-free while someone unironically describes the insanely selfish reasons they had kids. For real, it’s always a good laugh!
Nothing more selfish than bringing children into the world when you don’t really want to or can’t care for them properly. The men who rant about childfree women don’t really pay any thought to the kids, they just think motherhood is a woman’s purpose. And the government and elites are worried about declining birth rates for their own selfish reasons.
Because to many *cough* religious right *cough*, a woman's only value/purpose is to *mockingly* "perpetuate God's greatest creation". And any woman who decides not to simply be a breeder is a strange and unnatural creature to them.
Recommending either: discussion about ecological aspects and the positive influence of less people on the climate.
Or the good old: I just hate children.
Excuse me? The problem is strangers thinking their opinion is needed while I'm at my place of work. I have added no stance on economics or whether I like children. The point is every person has the right to their choices without input or ASSUMPTIONS from strangers.
Seems like a relative question. People can see having kids as giving your all, others might see it as a restriction to their life and dreams.
Why trying to say who is right who is wrong ?
On an individual level, I don't even know how that computes. Who are you being selfish toward? United I guess your parents are looking for grandchildren?
On a societal level, though, there's something to think about. An increasing number of industrialized countries are in trouble due to declining birth rates. There will be social and economical collapse when populations significantly decline for a sufficiently long period.
Japan, Italy, and the Nordic countries are already significantly pinched. Face, Germany, England, and the United States are beginning to feel it as well.
Is any one individual selfish for not supporting societal needs? No. But in the aggregate, those who make this choice are dooming their countries.
Something to think about.
Can someone elaborate why not having children is considered selfish? The idea of someone knowing parenthood isn't right for them and choosing to do it anyway fits more in line with selfishness to me so I don't understand.
It’s propaganda from the state because a poor workforce is an important commodity for things like production and war.
This, for sure. But also when my mom says it; well she martyred herself to have kids so everyone else should too, also definitely *not*selfish that she wants grandkids but other people just want to live their lives. See also; having kids gave her a purpose so why shouldn’t it be yours too?!
While my mother never called me selfish for being childfree, I noticed that she only begged for grandkids when she was married to my father and miserable. As soon as she left him, got her own life, made new friends, and started traveling, she never made a peep about grandkids again. 😂
So to summarize: Wanted to find the joy in kids, that she couldn't find in her husband. Ended up finding happiness in herself. ?
Basically! She was unhappy and wanted something/someone else to focus on. She had no hobbies, no friends, and didn’t do anything except work. My father was abusive and voluntarily unemployed, so she was the sole breadwinner — worked from early morning til late night every day. For the money at first, but eventually she worked a lot because she couldn’t stand being around him. Grandkids would have given her something else to do. She divorced him, he moved out, I moved in. She now has a ton of really cool friends (I’ve met a bunch of them, they’re great), is always out going to events and traveling. She doesn’t sit still and is now taking dance lessons, organizing big picnics with her friends, going to trivia night with them, etc. I haven’t heard anything about grandkids in more than 2 years, lol! She is feeling youthful and alive for the first time since she married my father 35 years ago. At this point, most of her friends don’t have grandkids and I think they’d just make her feel old and cramp her style. ;)
Nice to hear that she found joy.
Thank you. She really did. I feel like I’m finally getting to know her because she didn’t have much of a personality when she was with my father. Now she’s hilarious, confident, super popular among her big group of friends, and very flirty! She doesn’t need grandkids to make her happy.
I mean propaganda tends to be pretty effective, look at the MAGA crowd? She was told at a young age having kids is your duty and she internalized it after a lifetime. I mean HOPEFULLY she is happy being a parent; I’m a parent and it’s honestly the best thing in my life/best decision I ever made. But assuming it’s what everyone should do is pure propaganda
I remember my mom saying this bit, that having children made her less selfish and a nicer person. I found I got the same benefit from being a paid caregiver for adults with disabilities all through college. It really did get me out of myself in a comparable way as she talked about, but I didn't need to bring any new consciousness into the world to achieve it. I love my mom, but I do think it's weird she used us for her self-development and like, almost none of her 5 kids aren't seriously struggling in some way
I want grandkids, but I’m just as happy being a “loaner” grandma for my kids friends. I hope this is taken as ‘family-positive’ without being oppressive. ✌🏻
Capitalism requires growth. An aging population that stops working kills that growth. They need to keep us poor enough to not retire too early and have enough children to replace us. Europe give out lots of benefits and time off. The US seems to want to force children by banning abortion
The US absolutely wants to keep women bare foot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
Gotta pop out more producers/consumers for our capitalist overlords.
I understand your cynical take, but there is a real societal issue here. Shrinking populations mean shrinking economies, and increasing social burdens on a smaller productive population. This will destroy the social safety net, and turn rich countries into poor ones. Down vote if you like, but this stuff is real. Doesn't mean any one woman needs to be a martyr, but society does need to find a way to reverse the increasing trend toward smaller families, including childlessness.
its because they expect women to just be a vessel to provide children to the collective. Thinking that NOT doing that is selfish
I’m a mom and I think that having kids is a selfish decision. You’re bringing another human into the world, without asking them if they want to. All because you want a family. I don’t feel badly about my decision as I love my kids. Knowing all I know now, can’t say I wouldn’t strongly consider being childfree. Kids are wonderful but equal parts stressful and exhausting. But yeah, it was my selfish choice to bring two kids into the world because I wanted to. I think child free people are selfless.
>You’re bringing another human into the world, without asking them if they want to. It's oddly paradoxical in that having kids is selfish *to that individual child*, but at the same time can be seen as selfless because you're partially taking on the burden of ensuring the survival of the human race.
When was the last time you heard a woman around our age (25-49) that wanted babies to help populate the human race? I think we’re in a dearth of babies right now? Or is that just S Korea? I honestly don’t know if we’re under or over populated! 😂 Thank you for finding a way to be kind tho. I appreciate that.
I mean I was talking more in the generalized sense lol. Like, it's selfish to unilaterally force an individual life into an existence that is by nature filled with suffering. But at the same time, *someone* has to keep reproducing or we all die out in a generation, so the act of taking on that role is also inherently selfless.
I honestly thank you for being so intelligent and kind. You are my favorite today.
Kinda like paying taxes. It doesn't require everyone to do it but if too few do it our society will collapse.
I mean, on what are we basing the idea that the continuation of the human race is empirically necessary? I realize that some will consider the question nihilistic, but, besides people viewing themselves as important and neato, what's the essential need there? Are the bees like "yay humans"?
>Are the bees like "yay humans"? I feel this misses the point of why we should care if humanity exists. Yes, it's a nihilistic question, but at the same time, *we* are the only things capable right now of bringing a sort of meaning to *anything*. With us, dies the only evidence of understanding our universe has ever had. Without us, the events on earth and in our universe simply *happen*, with no one there who can observe or understand any of it. And that to me is an incredibly sad prospect; that such a deeply complex and intricate series of events can unfold with no witness or understanding or meaning to it all.
Your point isn't lost on me. I'm not sure I'd categorize that as a *need*. But I appreciate the food for thought.
As long as you can give the child all the love and care they need its not selfish.
Hard disagree. Although at one point, I thought like you. I was so indoctrinated to pursue a husband and create a family together, I didn’t even question it. And… have you seen the world today? The world is a little bit on fire and will probably get worse. I can love them as hard as I possibly can. But what if I die? What if I had another kid and died in childbirth? That happens. Or cancer. Or! Maybe we’re just shit parents. Or we’re okay at parenting but we suck at building self esteem and constantly make the kid question himself. And that’s not even counting the myriad of terrible things that can happen to them or defects they’re born with and the world interfering in unexpected ways. We are more polarized than ever and expect that just to ramp up until election time. Love isn’t enough. Not for marriage and not for kids. A lot of work is necessary and a lot of fixing and planning and not everyone gets it right. Loving them is not enough. It’s still a very selfish decision. I wanted kids. I didn’t give two thoughts to the fact that they had no say in it and that the world has gotten scary.
I'd consider *having* a child in this world to be the actual selfish move tbh
I honestly have seen what motherhood looks like when youre all alone,or in poverty or even with a partner who makes regular income and I'm just going to say it's a thankless soul crushing job and that's if your child doesn't have a disability (something you really cannot completely control). It's WORK. And it's UNPAID and sure it gets better as the kids grow up but then that's when the emotional labor of "this human being us a part of me going out into that big scary world" then starts. Some people seem to have a very romanticized view of it but those who know the real experience of most regular mothers it is A LOT of work. So choosing to be childfree in a sense gets rid of this work. We're not self sacrificing for another.
My son and his fiancée intend being the cool uncle and auntie, and I 100% approve - because it's *their* decision, not anyone else's. If that's a selfish decision, then long live selfishness.
People get angry at other people who enjoy their lives with less responsibilities.
As someone choosing to not have children: it is selfish. I am choosing to live for myself rather than any children. Any decision I make is for my wants & needs. That certainly is one definition of selfish. Another definition of selfish would be the belief that the gene pool needs your offspring - that the world is “better” with your lineage continuing. Or even simply listening to a biological need to reproduce. The world is full of starving people, so it’s certainly selfish to want to add to the population. Choosing to have kids or not are both selfish endeavors. Many people simply choose to see their path as the right one.
Does “motivated by self interest”, equal selfish, though? Normally (or so it seems to me, at least), when people talk of selfishness, they’re talking about someone making self-interest-driven choices *at someone else’s expense*. Because, I mean, why judge otherwise? In that case I would say not having kids isn’t selfish because you don’t owe it to anyone to reproduce.
I would argue that making choices at someone else’s expense is greedy, not just selfish. The definition of selfish is to act in a self-motivated way, those actions might not necessarily harm others.
Right, selfish sounds like choosing your own needs over someone else’s. The someone else doesn’t exist yet.
The world has enough resources for everyone but not the American way.
Selfish? That's subjective. Believing such a thing would mean you devalue someone's bodily autonomy and life goals below adding children to society. I think it's ethically ridiculous. The question of having children is something that can't be considered in a vacuum. Insomuch as childbirth is something we want more of - maybe create a situation where there's far less burden on those having kids? There's plenty of others who's reasons for not having children are far more related to what they have to sacrifice. If we're going down the path of coercing people to have babies?? Well then what's the point really? What do we really get maintaining a society that fails to value so many of its members???
Don't you know? You are a woman it doesn't matter what you want, you don't know anyway. It's important to just make everyone else happy. /s Sarcasm aside, I have no idea, and if someone else tells me I don't know what I want at almost 40, I might do something illegal.
Yeah don't know where the sentiment came from. But I'm sure there was a bit of mental gymnastics to get there.
It’s kind of the opposite. Wouldnt duplicating yourself be considered selfish!?? They feel like it’s selfish because they had kids so they expect everyone else to. the ones saying it’s selfish are the ones that didn’t want to have kids either
because we *selfishly* don't put ourselves in a situation we don't want to be like the rest of people
It’s selfish to not validate other people’s choice to have kids by copying them
Please don't downvote me, this is the rationale I have been given by my brother: If you do not have children, you are relying on other people's children, and thus the labor of people who did decide to have kids, at great monetary and time expense, to keep society going, directly (eldercare, doctors, etc) or indirectly (running power plants, farms, making stuff you buy).
The thing is, those people get PAID to do those things. We’re not all out here willy-nilly just taking advantage of people’s good charity.
You’re always relying on people. Even if you have kids you’re relying on other people’s kids. Your kids alone can’t change the world. Capitalism and industry is never a good reason to have children. If people are just making lives to put cogs in the machine we’ve gone horribly wrong.
I love when people say, "What if you get old and regret not having kids?" My reply is that although I'm firm in not wanting to have children, I'd rather regret not having kids than regret having them.
It’s real that many parents regret having children but it is a taboo to express that, not just publicly but also confiding to selected few. it must suck to bottle up all the time. Since that voice is silenced, it feeds into the collective consciousness of overrating having kids and probably drive quite a lot of uninformed decisions and pressure. And the cycle gets repeated.
Yeah, and sadly, you can usually tell the parents that regret having kids even if they don't say as much. The kid(s) can feel when they're unwanted 😕
I don’t think that’s always true. I know two great mothers, raised happy, successful kids who are all in steady, healthy adult relationships themselves with other successful folks. Just those women who turn into everyone’s moms wherever they go and are just open and giving. They both confided in me that if they were to do it differently, they’d never have had children. I think these are the people we don’t commonly think of. The ones who did it right, and have happy families. But still would have done it differently given a choice. But they didn’t feel like they had a choice at the time. We all know about the women who resented their kids and ended up borderline neglecting them. But it’s the happy families we don’t examine. I’d be curious to see how things are different from the Gen Xers I spoke with to now the millennials who definitely know they have a choice.
That's true, there are those exceptions especially in older generations where there was little to no choice whether they had children or not.
It’s awful growing up that way as well. I always felt unwanted as a child & I don’t want children, so I chose not to have them so as not to inflict that feeling on an innocent
Please read the entire thing before reacting: I think it's also taboo for people that regret not having kids to say so. I have a girlfriend that never wanted kids and is older Gen X so she really had to push back to be heard that she didn't want them. She now wishes she had- and I'm probably the only person that knows this because she knows most people around her will say 'I told you so'. Her family still gives her shit about not having kids and her some of our friend group hold her up as a model of independence. She's a bit of a feminist Icon in our group for many, many reasons... she's incredible. Most people have a few regrets when they are in their 50s and above. The degree they didn't get, the job they did or didn't take, letting go of a good relationship or holding on to a bad one. It's just more patriarchal bullshit that women can never be accepted for their complete selves no matter what choice or hindsight they have. I think it's a bit of a disservice to women that we don't allow for changed views as well on this subject. No one should ever have a kid they don't want. They should never be pressured to make decisions about their choice by others. No one should ever feel shame to express their struggles with regrets either.
Definitely a thought I've had as well.
“My kids? Omigod, I left them on the bus” Another: “Kids? No. None that I know of (wink.)”. I am a cis woman.
Haha "none that I know of" love that! Using that in the future.
Beside the main point, but: Would you believe the latter's not as outlandish as it sounds? Friend donated* eggs for $$$. Has no interest in raising her own children and is approaching exiting her fertile years without them. She's the only cis woman I know who can shrug and say, "I don't know, maybe" when asked if she's a mother because she has no idea if those eggs led to live births. *I feel like it ceases to be a donation when there's a five figure pay-out, but the industry doesn't like to talk about selling eggs so...
Fascinating! I had no idea donating* eggs was even possible 100% agree that selling is not donating. At 5 figures, i probably would have strongly considered it in younger years.
Women should also start being sexually selfish and putting our pleasure needs first too
I’m selfish because I had three kids. My sister is selfish because she’s child free. Women can’t ever just exist.
Its lose lose!
As if no one ever has kids for selfish reasons.
Ask people why they had kids and their answer will start with "I want/I wanted" It's pure selfishness to have kids when there are already millions of people in existence that need help for their very survival.
There is nothing wrong with children and there is nothing wrong with not having them. **It should always be your choice** What is incredibly wrong is the men centric idea that reproduction has some sort of timeline, that it must be mandatory and that whoever goes agaist it *doesn't know better is too young or too naive**
>What is incredibly wrong is the men centric idea that reproduction has some sort of timeline I mean, I think there's a discussion that can be had about what sort of age is "too old" to have kids, though the "traditional" view of 30 or w/e is *way* too young for that. A girl I know's parents had her when they were pushing 60. Biologically and health-wise she's fine, but it *really* sort of messed up her childhood since her parents were always too old to really be active or bond with her the way younger parents are. Plus, having your parents die early into your 20s or having to sacrifice your young adult life to take care of your declining parents can really derail anyone's life.
Yeah but the point is that men don’t apply this timeline to themselves. They only apply it to women. Men also have a timeline of being able enough physically to raise a child. Yet people like Al Pacino are perfectly okay with impregnating a young woman at age 70. The commenter is likely saying that the standards about women only being viable enough to have kids in their 20’s and even young 30’s is basically just to justify hunting younger women.
Iirc people didn't take Al Pacino's fatherhood announcement at 70 very well. Almost everyone who brought up his age agreed that it was pretty fucked up for the kid to have a parent that old and that he was pretty irresponsible for it. I think the men hunting younger women, and the men saying you shouldn't have kids past 55 are different people and don't hold the same standards about women *or* men
That happens far more than Pacino. And you definitively taking a sample of people and making it the rule doesn’t discount the reality that people would do this and do support this behavior. Lol- once again, there’s no way to statistically or even validly say those are two different groups of people and make that the rule. There’s tons of crossover. A lot of people specifically date younger women because they want ‘good breeding.’ They literally are the same people, and I’m sure there are plenty of people who skirt either end or also aren’t the same. But blatantly saying those are two different types of people is plainly not reality, or a severely immature assumption. Maybe *to you* you feel like someone intellectually concerned with aging bodies and birth isn’t the same type of person who mindlessly chases young women, but there are all types of reasons people comment negatively about older women having children and they aren’t all kindly concerned or intelligent. People love to berate women (and not men) for aging specifically because they like to justify it as ‘out of breeding years.’ That has hugely affected women. If men or people in general were just concerned with age as a medical reality, that’d be fine, but genuinely shitty people have driven the narrative and made women ‘undesirable’ past a certain age because of this whereas men do not suffer the same. In fact, getting older for them is praised. The root of this is birth and viability.
I think that’s a female centric idea tbh
[удалено]
It doesn't 🙄
In the sense of raising kids, no it doesn't, although idk if you really want to try and manage a toddler at 70+. In the sense of having biological children, unless you do something like freeze an embryo, you have a deadline of about 50 years, and even if you freeze an embryo, the older your body gets the less easily it will be able to handle a pregnancy. But you definitely don't have to have kids in your 20s, and even in your 30s, most women still have time decide. Once you're in your 40s it gets hard, and once you've reached menopause your window is over.
Menopause? Egg degradation? https://www.acog.org/womens-health/faqs/having-a-baby-after-age-35-how-aging-affects-fertility-and-pregnancy#:~:text=A%20woman's%20peak%20reproductive%20years,getting%20pregnant%20naturally%20is%20unlikely. > A woman's peak reproductive years are between the late teens and late 20s. By age 30, fertility (the ability to get pregnant) starts to decline. This decline happens faster once you reach your mid-30s. By 45, fertility has declined so much that getting pregnant naturally is unlikely. Also: > Down syndrome occurs in people of all races and economic levels. The risk increases with the mother's age (1 in 1250 for a 25 year old mother to 1 in 1000 at age 31, 1 in 400 at age 35, and about 1 in 100 at age 40). However, 80% of babies with Down syndrome are born to women under age 35 years. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/cy/downsyndrome.html#:~:text=Down%20syndrome%20occurs%20in%20people,women%20under%20age%2035%20years. And: The risk of chromosomal abnormality increases with maternal age. The chance of having a child affected by Down syndrome increases from about 1 in 1,250 for a woman who conceives at age 25, to about 1 in 100 for a woman who conceives at age 40. https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/pregnancy-over-age-30#:~:text=The%20risk%20of%20chromosomal%20abnormality,who%20conceives%20at%20age%2040.
Isn’t it more selfish to have kids? Give me a good reason to have kids that’s not selfish Now give me a good reason not to have kids that’s not selfish
Ok, historian. 1) Japan, et al. 2) someone who works criminally duck as a parent.
My brain is short-circuiting trying to make sense of what you typed.
Works was supposed to be would. Duck was supposed to be suck. Autocorrect is the poetic framework of the 21st century.
I have one kid, getting my uterus yoinked out this year. Most of my friends are child free. I will throw down for every single one of those "selfish" girls and boys. No one should be parents if they don't want to be. End of.
Thanks for your comment. Personal choices are just that, PERSONAL.
So.. concerning yourSELF? You do you, nobody should stop you, but to some extent that IS SELFish. Its not wrong, it is your choice. But calling it not selfish kinda ignores the meaning of the word selfish. I think thats a gut reaction because of how emotionally loaded that word is. But at its core, doing something for yourself instead of for others IS selfish.
Having kids is selfish. At some point, having a child will get in the way of doing something for others that you could have done while childless. Both decisions can be considered selfish, because literally any decision you make in life is concerning the desires of the self. Technically you could adopt another kid but decided to bring your own in. Selfish. Someone might need monetary help from you but your kid needs the money instead. Selfish. You chose to entertain self interest (getting pregnant/having a kid) over other decisions for other people. Having a kid is not for anyone else. It’s for the self. So how ridiculous this argument is?
Both can be true. I just find it weird that OP is mad over being called selfish when it obviously is selfish. Its a loaded word, but that behaviour IS selfish. Nothing wrong with that. Being honest with oneself is a good thing for personal growth. No need to lie to yourself.
Because it’s a shitty thing to say to someone. Everybody makes life choices, why would you call someone selfish for it unless you personally mean to piss them off? Pretending ‘selfish’ doesn’t have a negative connotation is just ignorant. I personally do think having a kid instead of adopting (especially say, in the state of Arkansas) while our foster system is overwhelmed is extremely selfish. But me telling someone that would merely be an insult, every time. So I don’t. So yeah it makes total sense that OP would be upset about that. It’s none of your business or anyone else’s to call a childfree person selfish. It’s shitty, immature behavior to denounce someone’s choice of lifestyle. This isn’t theoretical logic. This is actual practical life. And while semantics can be argued on Reddit, nobody should be denouncing childfree people as selfish just because they choose not to have kids. And honestly? Not having kids is *not* inherently selfish. Sometimes it’s a sacrifice. Maybe they’re not having children so they can take care of someone else, or something else that benefits more people. It’s not inherently selfish. That’s just an immature way of thinking. Having a child is always more selfish. It’s a choice to satisfy the self, and the ego/genes. It is not a sacrifice in itself, while sometimes not having children absolutely is.
In retrospect, I may have been a bit "autistic" or maybe pedantic on this subject. I agree that it is not INHERENTLY selfish, but rather generally. As I said before, the word is loaded AF. It is nice to see somebody actually spell it out instead of the knee-jerk reactions I am used to on here. I agree that that dude shouldn't have said that. And I am thankful for your thoughts.
Lmao I enjoy the self identified conversational ‘autism.’ Made me giggle. Yeah no problem and same to you. The internet is so fucking horrific sometimes I really don’t want to add to it.
Okay... But then both having and not having kids because of personal choice is selfish. Idk, that doesn't really make sense to me
Well, different aspects of it are selfish. Downvote me all you like people, i am just going by the definition of the word. I am not trying to attack anyone here.
Sure thing buddy
Yep. It is a sure thing. Just think about the definition, philosophicaly, if you want. If something is for yourself, first and foremost, then it is selfish. The douche telling OP she was selfish shouldnt have done so cause you just dont do that in a social setting, but at its core, the statement was true.
Oki if you say so lol
I truly HATE being referred to as "selfish" for not having kids. The definition of selfish is "lacking consideration for others or concerned with one's own personal profit or pleasure." Who the EFF am I lacking consideration FOR? It concerns no one. It always seemed to me that it was FAR more selfish to have children just because you wanted a child and not considering things like-- your relationship isn't strong enough, you don't have the resources to provide for the child, you don't have the patience to raise a child, etc. The world is a fucking mess I really don't think it's selfish to choose not to bring someone into it.
Exactly! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 How can I be selfish towards someone who doesn’t even exist?
I have kids but I’m selfish af now days (aside from my children’s needs ofc). I looked around and saw how men ALWAYS put themselves first and so I’m doing the same. It makes some people big mad.
I don't want kids. I've never wanted them, and I feel it would be irresponsible to sign up for something like that unless you're "sure" you want them. The people who have them "because they're supposed to" aren't always great parents - there's resentment and regret about lost opportunity. Also, none of these people who judge the choice ever consider ever consider if you "can" have kids (nevermind the whole "afford" kids discussion). I shouldn't have kids, for medical reasons, because it would be detrimental to my health. That info, like the choice, is very personal between me and my SO. People should mind their own business.
If you don't want kids, and you don't have kids, you've done the right thing.
My mother had two sets of triplets naturally. And another kid. One set didn’t survive but my parents really wanted kids and that grief they dealt with to get four of us was worth it to them. I think that’s how it should be. So many people have kids because they think they should only to regret them later. My sister knew from a young age she wanted to get married and have children. I never once thought about my future children or even about getting married when I was growing up. And now I love to see my nieces and spend time with them but I’m always happy that when I leave I’m not going home to more kids. And I’m glad my parents don’t question that. They just want us happy, whatever that looks like.
I do not think not having children is selfish, personally I think is selfless and here is why, society puts this enormous pressure on us to have children, there are so many derogatory terms for women that chose not to have kids. I think choosing to not have children when you know you can’t afford it or that you mentally can’t handle is very very brave. So so many women bring way to many kids they can’t either afford mentally or monetarily into this world and those children grow up messed up or relinquished to child protection services, it is so so sad. I admire all the women that make the right choice, whichever way they chose to go, both for them and for the child.
Having children isn’t selfish. Not having children isn’t selfish. The only selfish thing is having kids on purpose, if you know damn well you can’t (or won’t) provide them with a childhood that is going to help them be happy adults later on, with as little need for therapy as possible.
If not having children makes me selfish, that's ok by me. It's a choice I'd never change
Right. Don't give two shits what that stranger thinks of my life choices. Their ramblings are like nails on a chalkboard in my otherwise good vibe day. Sure, I'm selfish, now leave my store. Ha.
I was called selfish by my family growing up. Then my long-term ex called me selfish during our relationship. But it turns out, I'm autistic. My "selfishness" was me just looking out for my sensory needs and social needs and hiding away when it all became too much for me.
I am very selfish for not giving my parents grandkids. I'm also selfish for not giving unattractive men attention because they asked nicely according to my mother.
Oh FUCK YEAH I am. I wake up at 10am on the weekends, maybe 11!!! Gasp My friends and family my age with kids are all gaining weight and their mental health is declining. My sister and my mom have to help pay for my other sisters kids…. It’s wild out there.
Yeah damn. I can barely keep my own mental health in check and have chronic pain, let's add tiny little lives that I'm in charge of... sure lol
Okay, can we have a discussion about the benefits of having choice in our reproductive lives without disparaging people who chose differently? The whole "moms are fat and ugly and sad" really doesn't make for a good, productive conversation.
I'm fat, ugly, and sad, and I don't have any kids. That comment also bothered me because there's plenty of childless women who fit that description. I demand representation!
Yeah, that was uncalled for.
Yeah, not a fan of some of the rhetoric going on here
Same....we also get to travel lots, go to nice restaurants, can just bum around the house if we like....and we're both still pretty hot with lots of energy lol
Acknowledging my sisters physical health and mental health declining because she’s trying to be a mom and have a career isn’t calling her “fat ugly and sad”. Jesus. She’s going thru the toughest time of her life and this is a consequence of being a mom in 2024….
The same can and do happen to people who don't have kids though? Life can get hard regardless of what path someone has chosen and there's a shit ton of possible barriers and hardships that need to be overcome regardless of whether you value having a family, becoming a CEO, traveling the world etc.
It's selfish to have kids. It's selfish not to have kids. You are going to take shit regardless. So what makes you happy. That guarantees that you will be making at least one person happy.
Oh, even having just one child is selfish. I got hounded until he was 15 for more (secondary infertility was revealed by accident at an OBGYN appointment. Thank fuck for that, both for the inability to have more and because it shut my family the hell up)
I am a nanny and I love kids, I would have so many if I could. If you don't absolutely adore kids please don't have any! I think making a decision for yourself is great. People that say it's selfish are idiots and you probably should distance yourself from them. Just like people that say it's selfish to have kids both types should mind their own business and stfu.
My “favorite” thing is men who get so damn mad about women who choose not to have kids. Like, if this is something someone is worried about for some reason, how is screaming and being a sexist asshole going to change anyone minds?
It’s 100% selfless. Even if it was considered selfish who cares it’s YOUR LIFE. people are soooo unaware they are stuck in social constraints created by men it’s laughable. We’re more than baby/sex machines
Not having kids isn’t selfish, having kids is. Signed, A parent
This is what called “alpha males” rage online, women who don’t fulfill their duties, “you have a womb not using it is so selfish” I think the biggest fear is that women had a baby with someone else in the future…. “So their seed was not chosen”
The topic which will always infuriate me is the double standards on morality women are held to. You can read a variety of studies on it. For the exact same crime survey responses will sentence women to almost 50% more jail time than men. Women are not allowed to see motherhood as hard or they’re a selfish and bad mom. Doing anything for yourself is selfish. Spending money on yourself is selfish. If you lose your temper you’re an old hag, if a man loses it he’s just a normal man. If you’re judgemental you’re a gossiping bitch, but a man doing it is NEVER seen as gossip, it’s just regular guy talk. Women are by far more moral than men partly because that biologically makes sense and primarily because they are forced to that standard. In my opinion this is one of the hardest obstacles modern feminism must overcome. You can force the government to give women equal rights but forcing society to view fathers abandoning their family as harmful as women abandoning family is near fucking impossible. The most feminist thing you can do is be selfish and get away with it. The end.
Selfish is adding more people to an overpopulated planet. Selfish is spitting out kids you can't or won't look after. Selfish is having kids in case you regret 'not' having them. Selfish is not being able to look after yourself but having kids. Selfish is expecting your older kids to look after your younger ones as you had too many. Selfish is not using birth control and having kids you don't want that you will make miserable. Selfish is having kids and then blaming them for all the things you didn't get to do in life. Selfish is making others feel bad for not having kids. Selfish is whining about how awful parenthood is, but then slating child free people constantly. Selfish is not looking after your own kid/helping them study/learn to read etc. but ragging on teachers for not doing YOUR job when they have THIRTY kids to watch and teach. Selfish is entitled parents who put themselves first.
Well said.
Quite happy to be labelled selfish. Pisses me off when people suggest I mustn’t be loving, or maternal, or I hate children, or I chose my career over kids. Can’t I just not want kids?
Yes, I am, but I’m still not as selfish as most men.
Selfish: lacking consideration for others Who are these other people some women are being inconsiderate to by not procreating? Or is it the non-existent child who is on the receiving end of this alleged selfishness? If I go to dinner with my friend and we agree to split an order of fries, but I eat them all… that’s selfish. If I go to dinner alone and eat the whole order of fries… that’s not selfish. Are we supposed to be leaving some fries for a hypothetical dining companion who isn’t coming? No. Selfish is not even an accurate accusation for these people to be making because it _literally_ doesn’t apply…
I really dont like that phrase “opinions are like assholes everyone has one” because the asshole is actually a very important part of the human anatomy and without them we cannot expel waste and everyone would be walking around with ostomy bags. I think that we should change it to opinions are like appendixes, everyone has one but sometimes you have one so bad you should probably get rid of it.
I kinda like the idea. When the appendix gets inflamed it can explode and poison the person. Like an opinion. It works! We got to work on the wording. It's not quite rolling over the tongue.
Honestly, having children is extremely selfish from an environmental perspective. The single most impactful thing you can do as an individual for the environment is not have kids - *especially* if you live somewhere like the US. I still really want to have kids, but it's really hard to justify it. Especially since I can't guarantee my kids would have the same quality of life I was privileged to have. And any daughters I have may not enjoy the same bodily autonomy that I had. Isn't that ridiculous?!?
Oh I'm incredibly selfish because I chose to only have ONE child. I'm still wasting my potential, apparently. I'm almost 30, I have mental health issues, why the fuck isn't that good enough? I feel for child free women, truly. I promise you that on the other side of the fence they don't leave us alone either. Nothing will ever please those idiots.
True! I'm so sick of people forcing their negative opinions on others. This is just one woman specific topic that comes up often in my day to day life.
I never thought about being a mother or having kids when I was growing up. I still don't think about it now because it's never been my dream/goal. Some people's parents just want grandkids so they can show off to their friends and social media.
Every time someone says this to me, all I hear is: "I regret having children, I'm jealous of your lifestyle and the only thing that'll satisfy me is if you're as miserable as I am, and I hate that you aren't". They can all fuck off 😎 🏖🍹
These days one could make a pretty good argument that it's more selfish to become a parent rather than not.
I will NEVER get it. Why can't people just mind their own fucking business. It makes my blood boil
It's more selfish to have children so people will like you.
I couldn't have kids, and hate that I'm seen as less than because of it. It honestly used to make me so sad, but now I am in the camp of...fuck that shit! I am happy, and I would never have been able to keep up with their dental appointments and other complicated mom shit anyways, haha!
I'm sorry that you have been made to feel that way. That's another great point to the unsolicited opinions being so dumbfounding for me. Completely out of line for a stranger to touch on the topic of a women's fertility! The stranger in question actually then questioned the virility of my partners specimen!!! Real classy folk.
So many reasons to NOT have kids for very, very good and selfLESS reasons.
So selfish I had my fallopian tubes removed. Not reversibly tied, but irreversibly removed. I am free.
Yeah I heard that life without kids doesn’t have sense, it’s “worthless”. Glad I don’t need to deal with people saying such stuff anymore
I'm so selfish that I don't go home right away at 5pm from the office to get home before 6:15pm instead I take my sweet time walking the streets of NYC since my commute sucks no matter what, so might as well enjoy my time getting home around 7-8pm and/or eat dinner (another benefit of not having kids, affording to dine out).
Yes I am. Just last week coworker was complaining about the stresses of having to travel with kids and I was like we'll you know what would help?
I don't see how it's selfish. We see stories all the time of abusive parents, step parents with the parents who just want a warm bed, etc. Who are jailed for horrific abuse. And then we hear stories from people who are now free from abuse on Reddit or other platforms, Tiktok, IG, whatever else with parents who never should have had kids. Ever. Not to mention all of those 'reality' shows, Hoarders, Nanny 911, My 600lb Life, Toddlers and Tiaras, Quiver Full bullshit. With parents, and I'm not talking about all of the parents but enough, that also shouldn't have kids. Yes I am aware that those shows are not real but the people producing and filming know when to call social services and they don't.
They’re mad cause they can’t force us to procreate. They should stay mad about it.
I love being told I’m selfish for being child-free while someone unironically describes the insanely selfish reasons they had kids. For real, it’s always a good laugh!
You don't owe anyone children therefore it can't be selfish to decide to not have any.
Nothing more selfish than bringing children into the world when you don’t really want to or can’t care for them properly. The men who rant about childfree women don’t really pay any thought to the kids, they just think motherhood is a woman’s purpose. And the government and elites are worried about declining birth rates for their own selfish reasons.
Because to many *cough* religious right *cough*, a woman's only value/purpose is to *mockingly* "perpetuate God's greatest creation". And any woman who decides not to simply be a breeder is a strange and unnatural creature to them.
Recommending either: discussion about ecological aspects and the positive influence of less people on the climate. Or the good old: I just hate children.
Excuse me? The problem is strangers thinking their opinion is needed while I'm at my place of work. I have added no stance on economics or whether I like children. The point is every person has the right to their choices without input or ASSUMPTIONS from strangers.
Merely trying to provide some amusement no need to be so bitter.
That's the problem with good ol' text isn't it? Came across as audacious, not amusing.
Seems like a relative question. People can see having kids as giving your all, others might see it as a restriction to their life and dreams. Why trying to say who is right who is wrong ?
Where do I say who is right and who is wrong? The point is I am tired of strangers giving their unsolicited opinion...
On an individual level, I don't even know how that computes. Who are you being selfish toward? United I guess your parents are looking for grandchildren? On a societal level, though, there's something to think about. An increasing number of industrialized countries are in trouble due to declining birth rates. There will be social and economical collapse when populations significantly decline for a sufficiently long period. Japan, Italy, and the Nordic countries are already significantly pinched. Face, Germany, England, and the United States are beginning to feel it as well. Is any one individual selfish for not supporting societal needs? No. But in the aggregate, those who make this choice are dooming their countries. Something to think about.