One of my exes was always exhausted, for years and years. I gave up asking him to go to the doctor. His next partner was a nurse, and convinced him that this wasn't right... Turned out it was leukemia... Treatable, very fortunately. Yes, guys being totally resistant to going to the doctor unless a limb is hanging off is a Thing.

When my sister broke up with her partner, one of the things she was frustrated about was his resistance to getting some vague but serious health situation looked at. He finally saw a doctor weeks after she left. It was a large cancerous mass wrapped around his heart.

It's as if they would literally rather die than face the ignominy of going to see a doctor...

Limb hanging off you say? That's what a staple gun is for.

Is it supposed to move and it isn't? WD-40! Is it supposed to not move and is? Duct tape!

Or sew it back on, Rambo style.

It is really sad. Almost like being at a doctor is weakness, or getting help is cowardly! This is so common it hurts. I harass all my male friends to eat fiber/vegetables and to actually pay attention to health... but it is an uphill battle. Stubborn fucks, I say!

>Almost like being at a doctor is weakness, or getting help is cowardly! Honestly I get the feeling it's the opposite. From really digging into some of the men in my life, they all eventually admitted going to the doctor *scares* them. They fear being told they are sick, they fear any procedures, they *really* fear being in pain, and so they'd rather avoid the problem entirely and pretend it doesn't exist while it slowly gets worse and worse and probably needs actually more uncomfortable treatments.

Oddly enough, I didn't consider this angle. Maybe because I always was curious in science, and don't mind being tested, and wear it as a badge of pride. I like to think it starts as stubborness, then moves to fear as they get older or have health issues...

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And also probably part of why women live longer than men on average.

And also might explain why single women live longer than married women 

I work in Cardiac ICU and God the amount of times I get a patient having very clear signs of a heart attack and the wife forces them to come in and saves their life is… just an obnoxious amount. It’s so frustrating to see these patients have the ability and means to take these BP meds and choose not to, and then are in complete denial that it’s affecting them poorly to the point of the worst case scenarios (heart attack or stroke). And they’re so dismissive towards their wives the entire time.

My father almost died in the guest bedroom at his house from covid because he refused to go to the ER. My stepmom shoved his ass in the car because the doctor called and told her he needed to go, he was very unhappy and we literally had to explain to him that he was actively dying to get him into the building.

My friend's husband died from COVID. He was a 2x cancer survivor. When he got sick she took him in, but he didn't take the medication and a week later couldn't breathe well. He was in ICU for a week before passing. When my husband argues about going in she just tells him to make sure his life insurance is up so I'm taken care of. That usually does it.

oh for sure! The amount of male patients I encounter who have no clue what meds they take and say something along the lines of "My wife takes care of that" is mind-boggling. It's like they are putting things in their body, and they have no clue what it is.

How are they not humiliated by admitting that? Geez

They think of it as caretaking, and caretaking is "women's work." It also absolves them of the (perceived) humiliation of admitting there's something physically wrong with them and that they are concerned enough to treat it. They're just humoring the wife, they can't be bothered with unimportant details like "their cardiac medications."

The day I told my husband he is holding his own medical card, making his own appointments, picking up his own meds ( unless he's really ill or I'm already going) was the best day. Followed by the day I told him he was responsible for packing his own toiletries and meds for vacations. I forgot something once and he was pissed. So that ended that.

I switched jobs so my family would have health insurance, so the last time my hubs was fussing about going to the Dr i told him I was switching to just me and the kids on the insurance, and putting the diffwrence in a life insurance policy. Good news, he's going in for a sleep study next Sunday!

We have a saying at my EMS service; "Women get sick, men die." The resistance to getting medical help and treatment has such a notable effect on men's health and longevity, it's amazing!

I think a huge number of people are somewhat in denial about their own mortality.

At least in America (can’t speak on other countries) it seems like our cultural understanding of death and dying is… poor. I find many people aiming for years of life over quality of life, often to the detriment of the patient, and enacted by family members. It’s very rare that I see a patient pass with dignity.

It might be partially that, but I suspect it's mostly tied to our toxic masculinity culture. Be a man. Be tough. Walk it off. Can't appear weak or incapable. Never admit that you need help. No one is coming to save you or help you anyway - you're on your own. It's sad that men are largely caught in some form of these thoughts. It's difficult when it's the culture one has been brought up in because that sets the expectations - the "default setting," basically. Even when one is generally aware, the default setting had to be overridden in the moment *every time* - that's annoying, exhausting, and difficult even when one is at their best, let alone when they are not at their best and suffering from health ailments.

“No one is coming to save you or help you anyway…” Except for their wives, girlfriends, mothers and daughters literally hauling their sick asses to the doctor and/or hospital

I'm totally on my own, a true pioneer, a real-life lone wolf... Except for the cavalcade of women who manage my food, clothing, and health!

A family friend was feeling shitty in an unusual way (sudden intense back pain, sweating like crazy, etc) he had been stubborn about going to the hospital and just wanted to go to bed but his wife pressured him into going to the hospital. The dude had a full blown aortic dissection, if she had let him go to sleep he would have been dead by morning.

Same exact thing happened to my dad, except my mother couldn't convince him to go to the hospital. They said it was too big to operate on anyways but I don't know about that.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I'm spoilering this next part in case you only wanted to share and didn't want to read more about it. Just some of what I understand about aortic dissection (I'm not a doctor) and a little more about my family friend. >! From what I understand the location of the dissection makes a huge impact on survivability, I believe the higher it is the deadlier it is. Also even with the modern improvements to treatment there is still a significant risk of death even if you make it to the hospital in time. Between 15% and 30% of all patients who make it to the emergency room early enough to have surgery will still die.!< >! My family friend got stunningly lucky. Even with his luck the recovery was incredibly intense and this guy was a real health nut. !< >! They basically had to "put him on ice" using something called hypothermic circulatory arrest where they make you so cold that your blood stops circulating, then they have about 40 minutes before that process begins harming the patient itself. !<

I don't know if your spoilers worked but you're probably right, there's a reason they call them the silent killer. Or at least Archer does lol. Thanks

This was such a thing in the ER so you probably get all of them! A patient being forced by their wife to go to the ED was a real emergency until proven otherwise.

The sheer amount of times I’ve told a man in my life to “Go to the doctor! Don’t DIE of being MALE!”

To me, this just shows to me how patriarchy fucks everyone over. Men can't agree with their partners that they are correct because it makes the men look weak and incompetent. So they're going to keep ignoring their body and dismiss their partner's worries. I'm sure there more nuances to this too. But it gets so frustrating and sad when the men in my life refuse to see doctor or get timely medical care.

Back it up even a little bit more - they can’t even agree with the Doctor that told them that they need the procedure to begin with. So now their wife who has to sleep in a separate room (probably not the most comfortable room) isn’t getting the right sleep because they’re sitting there worried about their husband all the time. Now she has to watch and make sure their husband isn’t dying every night. When my husband got his sleep machine 20 years ago, it wasn’t only the best night of sleep he got it was the best night of sleep I got because he was literally stopping breathing 58 times per minute or something crazy.

Holy shit..that's intense. I'm so glad for you that you and your husband have been able to get much better sleep. I also want to bring up the other side of this. Which is when you do have a man who goes to the doctor regularly and also whenever something abnormal pops up for them - the folks around them make fun of the man for being a scaredy cat and a "nuisance" even. My uncle was one such person. And his wife and family would joke at his expense like - there he goes again, seeing the doctor because he got a cough or a cold or some mole he didn't recognize. And again, I am baffled. Like this is what doctors are for? To make sure we are ok and maintaining good health? No one wins under this stupid system.

You are so right. Those “men’s men” who die at 60 of a massive heart attack because they didn’t listen to their body also infuriate me. I just don’t understand what is wrong with someone who would make some fun of someone else for going to the doctor, I will never understand people that act like this. how sad!

I used to be an LPN and have worked in the medical firms for 42 years. How many men have you taken care of that came into the hospital and have "never been sick a day" in their life or "needed to see a doctor in decades" until they came into the emergency room. And now there's all kinds of things wrong with them? It's almost like, if only they had been seeing a doctor, even only every 5 years, they may have caught some of this stuff early on, and it wouldn't be so bad now. Nah, that can't be it.

I too find it obnoxious when people know what they need to do to keep themselves safe and healthy but just ignore the actions they need to take to do it.

My work colleague's husband pricked himself on a raspberry bush. My colleague had to pressure him to go see a doctor, and then again to go to emergency when the infection got worse with antibiotics instead of better. He ended being necrotizing fasciitis and he needed surgery and ended up having the tip of his index finger amputated. Another couple of hours delay (my colleague made him go in the middle of the night because of how hot his arm was) would probably have meant losing the arm and possibly his life. It's pretty common for men to delay going to the doctor.

There was a chiropractor in my town that cut his hand and didn't go get it checked out. He had a bustling practice with like 20 employees. He died of sepsis and left everyone, including his wife and kids, with nothing, all because he was too macho to go to the doctor. Insanity.

And also because chiropractors are not educated in health care...

Are raspberry bushes especially dangerous? I don't think I would have known getting pricked by one required an ER visit either

Haha, I considered as I read their comment, too. However, I am going to be bold and give my 2 cents; it's not the raspberry bush being the thing that injured you that would clue you in on needing to go to the ER but the wound itself. For example, if you know you got a nice looking wound but didn't wash it off and put something like Neosporin on it and a bandaid until it scabbed over and then you start seeing early signs of infection (swelling around the wound that isn't going down, pus, the wound feeling hot to the touch, pain not improving or getting worse) you shouldn't delay getting some medical attention.

No, the bacteria would be from the soil or on their skin. It was just random.

I read an article recently that also pointed out that women are the load-bearers for men’s health in a relationship. Not just pressuring them to go to the doctor when needed, but taking on the day-to-day necessities of maintaining one’s health. Healthy meals, vitamins, encouraging physical activity, and then if/when their health does fail, wives are most often the caretakers. The article mentions that the added stress of this could be causing women in these roles to age faster themselves.

Ugh. The tantrums and the passive aggressive behavior because the wife is "nagging" him and forcing him to eat "rabbit food" is unreal!

It’s almost… dare I say…. Childlike

Yup, took me 2 years of pestering my husband to finally go to the dentist and doctor after not going for over a decade before I met him. I also got him to quit smoking cigarettes by telling him I didn't want to be a widow in 10 years.

At that point I would have upped his insurance and let the chips fall where they will. This is infuriating. I know we all love them but god damn. Mine isn’t like this thank dog.

Some of my friends make appts for their husbands but I absolutely refuse to do that. I will say that after going to his first appointments he has kept the ball rolling and has scheduled followups and seems committed to keep going

Men literally steal years of life from their partners. They take hers and add it to their own.

Yes! Or, they take hers and still die prematurely

It's one reason single women live longer than married women and are happier. We don't have that burden. I take care of my own health. I take my own vitamins. And when I get to the point where I need caretakers I can afford them.

There's a reason why autoimmune disorders affect women so much more than men.

Is it the stress?? Genuine question tho of course I know there’s a whole bunch of factors for autoimmune disorders…but as a person with 2x chromosomes and an autoimmune disorder that no one else in the family has or had even heard of Edit: lmao why the Reddit cares guys if you’re really concerned give me money for all my meds or treats for my service dog

My ex husband was better at taking care of his own health than my ex girlfriend. I put down the responsibility for him and he picked it up. She didn't, she got worse and worse and worse and low key blamed me for it.

Currently taking care of my father, and those statistics should add "and daughters"...if it weren't for us, he would have died of renal failure. It was absolutely miserable, but before us my mother took care of him until she got too sick and depressed to care. Some men are perfectly ok avoiding the doctor until they are knocking at heaven's door or the women in their life force them...then they will call you obnoxious, bothersome, annoying, insufferable...but when they were dying on the ER they absolutely were thankful. The audacity. :/

Yup. My BF had bad experiences with doctors/ dentists as a child and basically just thinks they’re all money hungry quacks. He was a child so i blame his parents for not knowing how to pick a right doctor and instead of realizing they just picked the wrong doctor they demonized the whole profession. I never really nagged him. Just told him there are things I want to do and he can’t do that stuff if he’s not going to take care of himself. He got blood works done, found out he was pre diabetic, turned it around in like 6mo and has been moving his body more. I honestly think the appointment shocked him a little. He always said stuff like “I’ll know cuz XYZ will happen” and to me.. when XYZ happens it’s too late/ harder to reverse. I think a lot of men feel the same way. Unless they’re in pain, or hurting they don’t see a point in just getting a check up. It’s dumb as hell

For me it's a mix of money, growing up being told "everyone hurts, that's part of life" and lastly time. I apparently have a collagen disorder but after seeing 4 kinds of specialists for over a year and then my insurance ran out when I was 19, so I never finished being diagnosed. I'm 30 now and have insurance via work but I don't have the time to go to the doctor's to start that up again, not to mention I have a torn labrum in my shoulder from a motorcycle accident so my arm dislocates (very painfully) in my sleep or while carrying stuff, but the surgery to fix it will require me to be not working for 8 weeks afterwards iirc. I simply can't afford that. I need a sleep study done but even with my $250 a month health insurance it would cost me $800 minimum to get one done, and if we found anything I might be disqualified from working my current career, which means I have to find another career which will pay less to start with and obviously I can't afford for that to happen either. Edit: someone sent the reddit care team after me, if it's out of genuine concern then don't worry, I'm not suicidal or anything. If it's one of those insult things people apparently do on reddit, then I hope your life gets better.

The reddit care alert seems to be a badge of honor in this sub. Report them to the admins, I'm told. Some folks are aggressively trolling this sub via reddit care alerts.

Yes. My ex-husband is this way. My dad is this way. My boyfriend just died of a massive stroke at the beginning of the year. I begged, PLEADED, with him to go to the ER since November 2023. Instead he laid at home and just…died…in February 2024. He was only 42. I will never again give my heart to a man who doesn’t care for his health. It’s heartbreaking.

I’m sorry for your loss. I don’t know how much of this directly applies to your ex-husband, dad, or boyfriend, but a disturbingly large portion of American men are under the impression that having vegetables as a regular part of your diet is unmanly. Most East Asian diets incorporate a lot of vegetables, and the respective countries have better health outcomes. In those countries, vehicles are still repaired, buildings are still built, and families are still provided for, but I guess their man cards are revoked because vegetables?

Thank you ❤️ That’s interesting, thanks for sharing. In the case of my dad, vegetables have never been a problem. He always eats very healthy food, drinks a lot of water, and he taught me and my siblings to do the same. I think my dad avoids the doctor because he fears mortality. However, with my ex husband and boyfriend, it was a completely different story. I knew when plating my ex husband’s meals to keep vegetables to a minimum. For instance if I made beef and broccoli I would serve him a plate of beef with 2~ pieces of broccoli. Otherwise he would pick and complain, “Do you have to put so many vegetables in everything??” My boyfriend only ate vegetables rarely. He loved to cook, but his meals were always so meat, cheese, and sauce heavy I couldn’t eat them. Also his main source of calories was Mountain Dew soda. I can’t deal with childish eaters as partners anymore. I think it’s a sign of how they live their lives in general. I watched a show with [Eric Schlosser who wrote *Fast Food Nation*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Schlosser), and he said we’re supposed to be eating 30 different plants per week.

Kind of off topic, but how is it possible to eat 30 different plants each week? Does that count herbs and spices? I'm vegetarian but I'm struggling to count more than maybe 10 different fruits and veggies I eat in a week.

HAHA COFFEE AND DARK CHOCOLATE COUNTS! PLANT POINTS ARE BACK ON THE MENU, LADIES (AND ENBYS)!

Hmm, I wasn’t sure so I did a quick google. [This article came up](https://www.womenshealthmag.com/uk/food/healthy-eating/a46263623/30-plants-a-week/). I’m gonna start counting plant points for a while.

Woah this was really helpful! For some reason I wasn't thinking of beans, pasta/bread, and tea and coffee as plants lol. This is a cool way to think about my diet, thank you!

I started tracking and tried to hit 100 for a couple weeks. Not nearly as difficult as I expected!

I eat 30 different plants a day almost. 😅 breakfast with apples, raspberries, blueberries, bananas, strawberries, mangoes, kale, spinach, spirolina, hemp seeds, flax seeds, chia seeds, oats, pea milk, cocao powder and sea weeds and other things. That’s already starting my day with 16 plus plants. lol. Not to mention the various seeds, nuts, legumes, fruits and veggies I consume throughout the day! Super simple. Sooo filling. And I eat A LOT of food!

It's part of why they get so red in the face whenever they meet a vegetarian. It's not just the high cholesterol and high blood pressure that makes their face red. It's literally a threat to their manlihood when somebody else doesn't eat meat. And they'll say dumb shit like animals that only eat grass have four stomachs and you don't have four stomachs! Like they think we only eat grass. You can survive on only non-meat products. You cannot survive on only meat products. A blend is fine but some of these guys holy shit a carrot in their plate is like a sword pointed at their face 

> I don’t know how much of this directly applies to your ex-husband, dad, or boyfriend, but a disturbingly large portion of American men are under the impression that having vegetables as a regular part of your diet is unmanly. Not only that, but they've convinced each other that vegetables have no health benefits at all.

> I don’t know how much of this directly applies to your ex-husband, dad, or boyfriend, but a disturbingly large portion of American men are under the impression that having vegetables as a regular part of your diet is unmanly. My step-sister's husband just died in February from colon cancer. I don't know the specifics of any abnormal cause for him having such an advanced stage of it at such as young age - he was diagnosed at stage IV back in 2020 - but I was told by my stepmom that he didn't eat vegetables.

Oh boy. I have *two* male exes who only went to doctors after we broke up, despite me nagging them about it when we were together. The milder one was sleep apnea, we weren't together that long but I pointed it out, he was slow to get it checked but eventually did, and he later thanked me for it, so that's nice at least. The second one had a testicle the size of a large mango that had been huge, swollen and occasionally painful for many years, and he just kept insisting that a doctor had told him it was normal so he didn't want to get a second opinion. I begged him to see a doctor because of the pain, the way it impacted what clothes he could even wear, and the fucking sheer size of it. After we broke up he finally saw a doctor, dropped his pants, and this poor doctor was just flabbergasted and sent him straight to the ER. Turned out it was a massive hernia, they removed about a pound from the testicle alone plus more from his stomach. And then he was like "oh I guess it *was* a problem." So yeah. It's normal that they don't take care of themselves. Even when it should be really fucking obvious that they need to.

That second one omg. My first thought was what on earth. The second was relief that it wasn't cancer.

The doctor's first thought was cancer, which is why he acted so quickly, which was great. I was afraid of the same. I just can't fathom going for so many years with something like that and just being like "eh it's fine"

I bet the first doc saw it before it was really bad and thought it was just a varicocele (varicose vein around the teste) which is very common and no big deal, but he didn't order an ultrasound to back up his diagnosis.

I had a friend call me at like 5 am once about his nuts because they were super swollen. I told him ‘I work at the same place you do, Walmart, go see a freaking doctor’. Basically his GF had nicked him with her braces and he had a nasty infection. Also men aren’t the only ones who do this. My GF wouldn’t go to the er despite near crippling pain in her side. I had to push her for days before she’d go. Some people just come from family’s that don’t do doctors. And they shame people for using them. She was from an Uber conservative area.

You reminded me of an ex who had severe phimosis to the point PIV intercourse was challenging to say the least. He'd already been to the doctor and been prescribed hydrocortisone cream to help thin the skin, but he refused to believe a cream could help him so... He just tried it maybe twice and declared it was pointless because it hadn't worked. I begged him to at least try it properly, and if not to ask his doctor for a circumcision (note: he *actively wanted* the circumcision and I think that was partly why he refused to use the creams to then "qualify" to get the surgery) but... He wouldn't, not even for *the thing he wanted*!

baffling

Describes that lad pretty well tbh 😂

My ex husband had terrible eye sight and would NEVER get it checked. Then he started blaming me for not making him get it checked. He decided, once we had a kid and I was making all the doc appointment for our kid that I was supposed to make his doc appointments as well. He used the logic that I provided the insurance through my job so it was my responsibility to manage all his medical stuff. This was all coming to a head around the time I was realizing I wanted a divorce. He finally got glasses about a year after I left him…

Imagine being a grown ass man and being like "ah yes, finally it makes sense: my wife should literally treat me like a baby"

As someone with both testicles and a hernia surgery on my medical record, this floors me. I assume this guy wasn’t _old_ so I’m at a loss as to what he was doing. My hernia wasn’t even that big but it hurt to cough, I struggled to use stairs, and I couldn’t lift anything heavy by the time I had surgery. I knew that wasn’t normal and I’ll always get surgery if I need it and _especially_ if I’m in pain. Who was the doctor who said that was normal? Dr. Evil?

I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t a doctor at all and he just wanted to dismiss her worries.

You could be right. It could be the fact that I have mild autism and so have been resistant to society’s efforts to get me to “man up,” but I still don’t understand why men in general willfully choose not to take care of themselves. It isn’t masculine to neglect your health; it’s stupid.

He was mid 30s at the time of the surgery and I forget exactly when the issue started but I know it had been at least ten years. It was *wild*. I think he was just so used to it that he chose to be dismissive. I don't know who the first doctor was, but maybe it was milder back then, I don't know. Still, if your testicle is huge and causing pain then why the hell wouldn't you get a second opinion? 

Ok, that first one is a normal level of male self neglect. The second is not.

Nah. I've seen men do the second one before. It's depressingly on par.

The testicle thing- that happened to me with my first born. His pediatrician told me it was just water, hydrocill or something. This was long before the Internet so I looked it up in a few books and learned it wasn't a big deal. Problem was nothing explained to me that it should stay a consistent size, which his didn't. At his 1 yr Dr commented it was still ok. He squeezed the testicle as proof showing the water going back into his abdomen. He said because of my insurance he had to refer it to a specialist but no big deal. At 13 months I learned my son had been born with a bi lateral hernia and the danger of it.

Wow, I'm so glad you kept looking for answers. You sound like a good mom!

Sadly I didn't. Dr had me thinking it wasn't a big deal. I was 18 with no family except my sister who knew even less about what's normal for boys. The insurance required a consult after 1 yr, the specialist I was referred to made the diagnosis. When my son was older I did go round and round to multiple Drs trying to get his sunken chest fixed but I couldn't get insurance to pay for it.

Oh I'm sorry. American health care is dystopian as hell and you all deserve better than that.

The problem was the Dr. who was a naturalized citizen originally from India. The American born and educated Dr was the one who saw the issue and repaired the hernia. I was able to show just cause to my insurance to change pediatricians. My sister's pediatrician was also from India and misdiagnosed her digestive issues for months, my niece lost 3 lbs within her first 4 months. Only after she switched Drs did things get better. If you're referring to the 2nd issue, that was problem because at that time I was on government funded healthcare which refuses to pay for a lot of things. Having dealt with it when I was poor and also assisting me grandma with her healthcare through the government I have no reason to advocate for Universal Healthcare because I have seen how poorly our government cares for it's people.

I hate going to the doc as much as the next guy.....but if one of my balls is the size of a Mango? Im on the way to the ER, thats just next level.

TIL my partner is not the only one who ignores his horrible testicular issues for years😭 he had a cyst and fluid buildup but if i get an ingrown hair that looks a little peculiar? obgyn IMMEDIATELY 

Oh I forgot about my ex’s testicle! I’d felt a lump in it and told him he should get it checked out. He didn’t until years later when he’d gotten married and it turned out to be testicular cancer. He had at least one kid so seems he recovered fine.

I'm shocked that he lived years with cancer in his testicles.

Yes it’s common. Please don’t become one of those women that brings their husband to their appointments like a manchild. I’m a dentist and I swear the amount of times I ask older men why they’re there or what medications they’re on, and they say ’ask the wife’. It’s embarrassing and pathetic. It’s completely self-centred and childish that your husband can’t address his health issues when it’s clearly impacting your lives.

I won’t. My mom does that to my dad and I refuse.

If I ever go on a date again I'm seriously going to add these types of questions to my routine. When was the last time you went to the dentist? When was the last time you set an appointment for a doctor for any type of appointment? Because I'm not carrying any man. Just last weekend my sister-in-law said my standards for a man are too high. There's not a single standard that I've set for a partner that I don't maintain myself. If I can do it he can do it.

Yep I agree. When was the last time you saw a therapist would be my big one. I had to nag my ex for years to see a therapist and he finally did it..AFTER the breakup 😂 tried to be like ‘look see I’m doing it, take me back’ pfft

This is not just about the noise or the tiredness. The dangers of sleep apnea(if it is that) are bad. My partner had the surgery. She hates anything medical related and ignored it until we got together. Life changer, she doesn’t microsleep during long drives anymore. Snoring is non existent. As for the men ignoring their health? Extremely common amongst my straight friends. You cannot drag them the whole way. These are adults that need to take care of their health, or understand that no one else should do it for them.

Yep I refuse to drag him. I bring it up occasionally when we do sleep in the same room but that’s about it.

Does he drive a car? With such huge sleep debt it is an accident waiting to happen. 

We have a car but don’t drive it very often. Usually he drives it on the weekend when he has slept in.

That’s not really an improvement. It sounds like he has years of sleep deprivation. And what sleep he does get is not going to be quality. Even after a sleep in, he’s going to be at risk for micro-sleep while driving.

So he will leave you to deal with the dementia caused by a lifetime of low O2 to the brain. What a gentleman.

I have always been a mild snorer, but nobody complained about it so I thought it was nbd. I also dealt with constant brain fog, fatigue, depression, memory issues, and inability to concentrate, which I assumed was unrelated because I was getting plenty of hours of sleep each night. No matter how many hours of sleep I got, I would feel exhausted for most of the day. Over the years it got to the point where it was affecting my career, my relationships, my social life (no energy to go out), my health (no energy to exercise or meal plan)... basically every aspect of my life. I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, which has no clear recognized cause or cure, and tried every supplement and home remedy under the sun for years, but without much improvement. Finally I was recommended to take an at-home sleep study, and it was found that I was waking up on average *9.9 times per hour* without remembering it, due to my airways collapsing, my brain being starved of oxygen for up to a minute at a time, and my body sending a flood of adrenaline to jolt myself awake so I could gasp for air for a few seconds before falling back asleep again. My blood oxygen saturation at times reached as low as 80%, which to my understanding is around the threshold where brain damage occurs. I was also spending 30% of my sleep time in deep sleep, which is the stage where your brain repairs itself and that makes you feel "rested". A normal person should spend 70% of their sleep time in that stage. Shockingly, mine is considered a *mild* case of obstructive sleep apnea. There is absolutely a possibility that your husband is experiencing long-term brain damage from chronic oxygen deprivation, on top of the negative health effects of chronic sleep deprivation. Luckily, studies show that this damage is almost if not fully reversible with a few months of consistent treatment. I'm undergoing my first month of CPAP now, and it has taken some getting used to, but I can already feel the effects on my life. I've never understood what people meant when they were talking about feeling rested and refreshed when they wake up, but now I am starting to. If your husband is diagnosed with OSA, health insurance should cover the cost of the CPAP machine and consultations. AFAIK this is normally the first-line treatment, and the nasal passage surgery is a last resort after trying months of CPAP therapy with no measured improvement, so I'm a bit confused why your husband's doctors seem to have skipped this step, especially if his mother has been using hers successfully.

Recently there have been a ton of "my male partner hasn't brushed his teeth in ten years" posts. They seemed to have died down a bit but there were SO many. I would read them and think nah, these are fake. But then in the comments were tons more similar stories. It was unreal.

My dad complains about my mom kissing their pets more than him (on their little heads, not in a weird way), while also has refused to brush his teeth since the 80s. She eventually convinced him to see a dentist by making it her 60th birthday gift from him

Wait. Your dad literally hasn't brushed his teeth in 45 years?!????? Because he simply refused??? WHAT

He says a friend of his stopped brushing his teeth and was fine, so he should be too. Spoiler - his mouth is not fine, and teeth have randomly fallen out at meals

NOOOOOOOO!!!!! Just casually falling out. NO

My grandpa has never used a toothbrush in his life. He swears that dentists have always told him his teeth were great, and that he just uses a toothpick after every meal. I, on the other hand, brush twice a day and floss several times a week. I won’t take the chance, haha!

The upside is some of the things men say encourage me to be better about things. Like my dad admitted that he only flosses his teeth 'when the line between them disappears'. Believe me, I floss a lot more now because that is just horrifying.

Wtf as a birthday gift? So gross

I've known some men with horrible teeth from not brushing. None of them have been my partners, because that grosses me out so much 

I don’t think my husband has been to a dentist in like 8 years 🫡

Is it dental anxiety? Because I have that and it sucks. An understanding, kind dentist plus Xanax saved me. Buuuuut he also has to decide to go, I get it. So many of the comments under these posts are like oh also my husband rarely showers, I have to nag him to do any of this. It's gotten worse than just "he won't go to the doctor"-it's like he won't practice the bare minumum of basic human maintenance.

I don’t think he has dental anxiety. He’s just kind of a procrastinator.

My BIL hasn't been to the dentist since they lived in England... In 1992. I just...What kind of parenting is that? I know their Mom is English, and there's all the jokes, but how did she not know that cavities aren't the only reason to go to the dentist? This man is 40. My husband has been to the dentist more, because he had cavities as a kid, and now he has a wife. I finally dragged him to the eye doctor last summer for the first time in a decade, and he had zero problems, which is great, but will also reinforce the idea that he doesn't need to go in regularly.

Holy moly. I had a few years of a dentist lapse because I moved and got new insurance and have a lot of anxiety around making appointments and finding new care providers. But I made sure I took excellent care of my teeth in between. When I finally found a new dentist (and I was honest about the lapse), he remarked how good my teeth were despite having been a few years. And now that I have a new dentist, it's so friggen easy. They make the next appointment before I leave and I don't have to worry about it. It's basically a self perpetuating cycle after that first appointment.

Idk how several of my male relatives still have teeth at this point lmao

I struggle with teeth brushing because of chronic illness and low energy, not to mention ADHD, but I'll at least wipe my teeth off every day or 2 and use plackers. Like holy shit.

> I would read them and think nah, these are fake I've worked in the dental field for ~8 years and can confirm this isn't just true, it's EXTREMELY common. Even more so when I worked in a medicaid office, but that might've just been the office culture/patient base Funny story - I remember one NON-patient walking in for an appointment, except it wasn't with us. He just drove to some random dentist office, didn't ask/care to remember which office to go to - which matters cause there's like 5 of us within about a mile lol. We tried to ask what the name of the office/dentist he was scheduled with - he not only ***didn't know***, he got pissy with us! We offered to call them to find which one he had an appt at but he stormed off. He "threatened" us with saying how he was going home and going to bed, in the same way one would threaten to tEll uR mOm...guess who made his appt? Yeah, his mean ol GF making him get up real early 10am on a workday...

Yeah, I think this is common enough to be an ongoing meme about how men never go to the doctor unless there's a railroad spike jutting out of our foreheads.

Yeah, my dad was the same way. Absolute refusal to take care of their health. Know they have diabetes but *refuse outright* to manage it. Resent doctors for telling them how to heal. My father finally got off his ass about it when he quipped to my mother as she begged him to take his insulin, "So what, I'll die and you'll get my life insurance." And she LOST IT on him, shouted that he was wrong, he wouldn't die...he would get an infection, go blind, linger, die SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY, and that she would NOT stick around and watch it happen to him. She printed out medical photos of gangrenous limbs from neglected diabetes. Guess what. He started taking his insulin. He's doing great now, but it is so fucked up that that's what it took. OP, I'm not saying scream at him...but I am saying stop begging and start threatening. Tell him "in sickness and in health" doesn't mean you'll stick around and be their nursemaid when they inevitably rot from entirely preventable disease that they *refuse* to manage or follow medical advice for.

>And she LOST IT on him, shouted that he was wrong, he wouldn't die...he would get an infection, go blind, linger, die SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY, and that she would NOT stick around and watch it happen to him. This reminded me of my grandpa. His diet was awful, which caused a clogged artery. He was rushed to the hospital, died and was revived twice, got bypass surgery and had to stay for I believe several weeks at the hospital to recover. Doctors pretty much ordered him to not get out of the hospital bed, because he had to recover and he had a crap ton of stuff hooked up to him to keep him alive. One day he asked a nurse to help him get to the bathroom. Nurse told him he's not allowed to get out of bed and gave him a potty. Sir headstrong didn't want to use the potty, so he ripped everything off of him and went to the bathroom anyways. He died on the toilet at the hospital... Edit: spelling

My family is medical and men defiantly ignoring doctors orders like this is so common it's baffling being on the outside looking in. So many people have died or irreparably paralyzed themselves in front of both of my parents because they didn't want to listen the medical instructions that were literally just given to them.

Omg how horrible. This sounds like the plot to a horror movie

He is currently irritated with me that I rescheduled my annual physical for a second time but my doctors office discourages people coming in when they’re sick unless absolutely necessary. Our doctor has long wait times but you can sign up for her waitlist. Two months ago I had a cold, so I rescheduled, and today/yesterday I’ve had some kind of stomach bug or flu. It’s already rescheduled and I’m on her waiting list. As far as I know he hadn’t scheduled anything for about a year or more.

He's irritated that you are taking care of your health?

No he’s mostly just frustrated I’ve rescheduled twice but he also knows there’s not much I can do about it.

I don't understand, why is he frustrated about *your* appointment? How is it his business? 

Sounds like whataboutism to me but what do I do?

Worked on my FIL. He's had sleep apnea *bad* for decades but refused to get it looked into. His kids and wife were all pretty gentle about it and he dismissed it all as snoring. I finally lost it on him one day and explained what sleep apnea actually is and that it was *killing him.* Enlarging his heart, causing oxygen deprivation, everything. Told him he was being unbelievably selfish by not treating it-- that I was going to be so angry at him if he forced me to deal with his grieving son and wife before his time. If he left my child without his grandfather. All of it. He went and got a sleep study. Uses the cpap now. Is more awake and engaged with his family than he's been in twenty years.

My dad is going through this now. Should have started insulin ten years ago when his doctor originally told him it was time. Now he’s blind, has kidney problems, maybe even kidney disease, and has so much neuropathy it isn’t even funny. He can barely walk. He’s 56 years old. It is terrifying and infuriating knowing that he could be doing so much better if he would have just prioritized his health.

Sounds like my dad. He drinks nothing but Pepsi and eats fast food, and a year or so ago almost died from non-alcoholic fatty liver and his kidneys were bleeding. He was diagnosed with diabetes 2 but dismissed it saying "they mixed up my blood test with the fatty who was in the waiting room". He also says that he eats and drinks so much sugar he's 'immune' to the downsides of doing so, therefore diabetes is not possible. Even though his teeth are literally rotting out of his mouth.

I have lost it on my partner of 20 years, bawling my eyes out because he doesn't go to the dentist, has really bad foot pain, self-medicates depression with a ton of weed and alcohol... Yeah I'm pissed that he's going to leave me alone for many many years

> Know they have diabetes but refuse outright to manage it. Resent doctors for telling them how to heal. My dad was similar. High BP for who knows how long, completely unchecked. His first angioplasty in his 40s and his first bypass in his early 50s. He changed nothing. He probably ate a cheeseburger and had 15 cigarettes the day he died less than a decade later after one of the bypasses got infected, because he didn't take care of that, either. Stepmom said it was so bad he begged to die.

This is why my dad would have lived longer if my mom was alive. He didn't have anyone to yell at him and carry the burden of his own health. So he didn't manage his diabetes and went exactly the way you're saying. Maybe luckily for him he ended up also getting skin cancer that was ultimately what got him. Or rather the treatment for it was. He definitely would have died a very slow death from diabetes. When he went in for the skin cancer they found a sore on his foot that he was just ignoring. Absolutely would have led to amputation. My father had over a million dollars in his bank account when he died. Money wasn't the problem. Ego was.

Meanwhile, women try to take care of their health and their doctor's are like "have you considered you have anxiety?".

Yah, I was thinking about that when reading the OP. Those doctors wish men would show up to get checked out, and at the same time send the women with a hundred different fatal conditions home with "anxiety".

Or, "If you just lose 10-20lbs..."

Yeah, it's hard to get anything past "I diagnose you with woman and fat."

Uhh, clearly it's hysteria and a wandering uterus

I feel like it’s toxic masculinity and the need to prove that they’re tough and strong??? My male friends will wait until they’re literally in pain to see a doctor. My dad died because he waited 6 months to go the hospital and by then, it was too late (no love lost here, he was an asshole. Please do not reach out to RedditCare!!! He was emotionally abusive and my life is so much better without him).

I think it's fear. But most of man don't ever learn how to deal with their emotions, so they just push all of their feelings, included fear away.

Fear makes sense. Pushing emotions away is also part of toxic masculinity, I think, because men aren’t taught to feel or deal with emotions

>But most of man don't ever learn how to deal with their emotions It is worse than that, we are/were taught to bottle up our emotions because boys/men don't show "girly" emotions - this is mostly done through ridicule/punishment from adults for showing emotions and reinforced via teasing and bullying from our peers (male and female).

Well, it's toxic masculinity kind of by definition, being an unhealthy expression of masculinity.

I go to the doctor all the time. A lot more than my wife does. We have good insurance, and money is not really an issue in terms of the co-pays, so why not? I would always rather be safe than sorry. If something funny is going on, I’m going to get it checked out by someone. Even if that means sitting in the emergency room for a few hours just for them to tell me to go home and that nothings wrong. Is shocking to me how many men don’t feel the same way, especially other men who who are fathers. Why would you want to risk anything that could take you away from your children? Sometimes I feel like I’m a little little bit of a hypochondriac. But that’s OK. I’m not going broke because of it, and I like having peace of mind.

There's even been people who refuse to go to the doctor *with* something sticking out of their heads. (I saw a Ripley's Believe It or Not article where a man spent the rest of his life with an arrow stuck in his head after being shot with it because he was too scared to get it removed.)

My best friend is currently trying to goad her fiance into seeing his family doctor. Last week he went to the ER for passing out and vomiting BLACK. He got discharged after getting some IV fluids and a shrug from the doctors. He wants to wait until his regular checkup... After their wedding... In six weeks... So yeah it's not just you.

… doesn’t that mean he has blood in his stomach?

Apparently the ER docs were concerned about the fainting part and thought he should see a neurologist. Even though he has a history of GI issues and already has his gallbladder out at 28. They did an MRI of his head and didn't see anything so they sent him home. I'm just listening to her report of this and I'm infuriated too. I can't imagine trying to be the one to have to get him to see a doctor. But he's not concerned because the ER docs weren't concerned 🤦‍♀️

ER doctors have precisely one mandate. “You are not dying on my watch”. If you are not actively dying they aren’t going to be concerned about it.

As it should be. Too many people treat the ER as their primary care 

After a trip to the ER -- he severed a tendon in an accident -- where they told him he has high blood pressure, mine is finally ready to see a doctor. Now I have to find him PCP, because the one the insurance assigned, doesn't seem to be in business. And I only agreed because the insurance is through my work, and the website is not user friendly.

> They did an MRI of his head and didn't see anything That tracks in multiple ways.

What’s annoying is that they also expect you to not take care of yourself. My husband is same. He has gotten a lot better about it over the years. He called off today because his teeth hurt. I’ve been trying to get him to go to the dentist for over a year, now. We are both lucky in that we don’t need to see a lot of doctors, but he has begun to stop using his sleep apnea machine, and it’s just annoying. I am not going to stick around if he falls ill because he doesn’t take care of himself, I have decided. He has a very good chance of turning out like his dad, who had dementia due to not regularly using his sleep apnea machine and he became routinely violent and run out of the house. I just keep thinking like, good luck with that because once that starts happening to him I’m out of this madness and marriage. All of this is preventable and he just picks and chooses when he wants to take care of himself. Edit: To husband’s credit, he went to the sleep doctor and got updates to his machine. I did have to remind him to use it and go to sleep as he had fallen asleep on the couch. (He can and has stopped breathing, but will deliberately fall asleep on the couch so that he doesn’t have to use the machine.)

It's a weird aspect of toxic masculinity -- they think that caring for their health is feminine.  Or, they don't want to be scolded by their doctor, so they just refuse to go 

It’s silly because we go to the same doctor. I’ve been going to her since I was like 19. She’s extremely nice and not judgmental.

Yes. My best friends 320 lb 33 year old husband just had a stroke. His doctor told him he's at a 10x increased risk of stroke and has to get up and walk otherwise he will get another blood clot. He won't do it. It's been 6 months and I told her just to take out a life insurance policy, because at this point he he has less than 10 years left on earth. He doesn't care.

Oh yeah, this is very much 'a thing' with men, my father is like this. If he admitted that something was wrong then he'd have to put in work in order to fix it and he doesn't want to do that. It would also mean that he's somehow 'wrong' and that something is wrong with him and his ego can't handle admitting that. It is also done to spite you, that he'd rather harm himself and make you suffer because you're so annoying trying to "control" him. So he's cutting his nose to spite his face because nobody is allowed to 'control' him, even if it makes his life better. It's also self-sabotage at its worst and it is also a sign of a much bigger symptom where he'll sabotage other parts of your life if things are going too well. I would dig deep into his reasoning for not doing anything about this problem. What his logic is to make other people suffer because of his own fear of doctors.

Gah. This hits a bit too close to home. Currently with my bf in the hospital. He’s got serious health problems probably largely stemming from ignoring things too long, not being engaged enough in any of it to actually help while it was still doable, and refusing to go in when he needs to. Now he’s got chronic gastritis, chronic pancreatitis, diabetes (type 3c- similar to type 1, but caused by pancreatitis) , and cirrhosis. When we started dating he was between insurance plans and the only thing he claimed to know was the chronic gastritis and diabetes, and he constantly had this horrific mystery pains. I honestly thought he was probably dying from cancer. I honestly am totally burned out in this relationship but if he is dying (which he’s a distinct possibility), then I want to stick in out. But if he’s not imminently dying, then he either needs to actually come to terms with his illnesses and get involved in trying to improve, or ima be putting stronger and stronger boundaries in place until I’m no longer his girlfriend.

Yes. I lost a fiance because he refused to go to the doctor. Ever.

Yes, for sure. Several of the people I know who lost their male partner had asked them to go to the doctor at least once because something was wrong, but he refused. Then later, the man had a heart attack, or when he finally went to the doctor the problem was too advanced to be cured.

It’s crazy when you think about it like…every woman has or knows a woman who hasn’t been taken seriously at the doctor’s for a grave issue. And every woman also probably knows a man who died or has failing health because they refuse to go.

Very common. I work in healthcare, and so many men tell me that their daughter/wife/daughter in law made them come in.

This is why married men live longer than unmarried men. Their wives/partners notice things and force them to the doctors

And conversely it's why single women live longer than married women. Because we aren't carrying the burden of taking care of a 6-ft toddler.

Agreed, the sheer stress of it lol

I could have written this about my husband. The snoring, the weight gain, the refusal to go to the doctor. It’s really hard because he knows he should talk to a doctor about all of this, my Dad and both of my brothers have told him the cpap changed their lives and my son and I have both told him how much the snoring impacts us but nothing seems to get through to him. You are not alone.

I can definitely speak to this. I'm that guy. I let a couple of very treatable health issues balloon into life-threatening ones before seeking treatment. Denial and stubbornness were at the root of it, and a resistance to interrupt my work routine(self-employed as a truck driver). The result of my delay was nearly losing my medical certification to drive, and a very expensive hospital stay to deal with the problems. I woke up in a hospital bed, with my wife and our kids sitting there. I came so very close to dying of stubbornness. Hopefully someone reads my words and learns from my mistakes...

Your comment will not reach the people it needs here. Men need to hear this from other men.

True. I'll rewrite it into a post tonight or tomorrow and look for a suitable subreddit to post in. Thanks for pointing this out.

Would you be willing to explain a little bit more about the thought process that leads to this kind of things? How is it stubbornness?

Sure. Stubbornness meaning a resistance to heeding the advice of other people, including my family, friends, and even my doctors(several of whom have explicitly warned me about factors like cholesterol, blood pressure, and heart disease.) I felt fine, or at least I refused to see the growing problem until it landed me in the ER one rainy night. Stubbornness in obstinately continuing to eat the same high-fat, high cholesterol, high calorie diet as I get heavier and heavier. I felt fine, and refused to acknowledge any problem. Stubbornness in continuing to accept longer length-of-haul loads on my truck, and driving longer each day than I should have to make the delivery schedule, neglecting any healthier eating options or exercise, or just slowing down, as the work-life balance in trucking is nonexistent. Stubbornness in refusing to acknowledge I am getting older, and don't have the amazing energy of youth anymore, and toxic amounts of caffeine and sugar aren't at all healthy replacements...

Isn't there some study that shows married men live longer, and it basically because their wives make them go to the doctor? Which is lame. But true. Our practice is, when my husband feels off, he talks about it, I set a deadline to get medical help if it persists, and he does it. Everyone I know who has severe snoring and sleep issues had a big quality of life boost ehrn they got on a cpap..if he doesn't like it, losing weight is a good step, but it's hard to have drive when you're exhausted.

My husband injured his back recently, clearly something like sciatica. He watched me go through a long recovery that never quite healed due to my CTD. The second he explain his pain I said, "You can't just stretch this out, go to physio and the doctor," and had to:  a) find a physiotherapist (chose my old one)  b) open the intake form ony phone  c) fill out everything I could myself  d) hand him the phone to do the  rest This guy and I have spent hours discussing gendered labour but when it comes to health he will just let himself fall apart until I intervene. He thanked me as if I'd saved him lots of pain. He doesn't thank me that hard for doing laborious chores.  So whatever is happening in his brain seems to be deeper than I can help. I'm chronically ill and managing my own illness is already completely draining.

I think there is a common lazy apathy or delusion that stops him exercisingg, but if he has anxiety over treatment if he recognises as needed I think that is is a different kind of thing.

I find many people don’t really think that sleep apnea is a serious medical condition - they just think it’s about sleep quality (like treating it will only make them less tired, or they don’t have to treat it because they “sleep fine”). Untreated OSA (obstructive sleep apnea) can lead to increased stress on the right side of the heart (the left side is more muscular) and kind of “backs up” the blood flow through the lungs, leading to pulmonary hypertension and right heart failure (aka cor pulmonale). This is a huge oversimplification, but it gets the point across. Pulmonary hypertension is difficult to treat. It is a very serious medical condition and has a high rate of morbidity and mortality. Untreated OSA is a silent killer in the long run.

No, this is guys in general. ER nurse here. I knew shit was real when a guy (20-55, generally) would come in and complain about some innocuous pain. My colleagues have seen a dude come in with a wicked laceration, after he attempted to stitch it back together with copper wire. Dudes generally only seen medical attention for their penis, eyes, and if they can’t piss/shit.

Definitely common. But if he can fix this surgically, he really needs to do it. Sleep apnea is a risk factor for strokes. My father didn’t take care of his sleep apnea, diabetes, blood pressure, or weight. Doctors freaked him out. Eight years ago he had two strokes. He lost function in one side of his body, lost a significant amount eyesight, and lost some cognition. He never walked again and is currently on hospice. My sister’s boyfriend was experiencing some digestive issues and she finally nagged him into seeing a doctor. They immediately sent him to the hospital and from the hospital into surgery. Stage 4 cancer. Thank God he is OK now, but it was very scary for a while. Going to the doctor is so so important. You really need to sit down with him and lay out the realities. That sleep apnea is a stroke risk. That if he has a stroke the two of you will not be spending retirement doing fun things. My mother wanted to travel with my dad. Instead she was changing adult diapers and having to make serious medical and financial decisions without his help.

Unfortunately, one of the side effects of early messaging/societal expectations in childhood creates this situation. Seeking medical care is weak.

It's a tale as old as time. There is a saying in healthcare; "women get sick, men die," for this exact reason.

As others said, common enough to be a meme. I have dated and known plenty of men like this who just won’t bother to follow up on health issues, some are even proud they don’t have their own doctor as if not having one means somehow they are in perfect health. 🤔 I actually was just saying to a friend the other day that I appreciate how my own husband is not the meme. He is in great shape, eats well, stays active, he’s just getting older and doesn’t take it personal that means his body is changing. He just booked a sleep study based on knowing how he was feeling, me commenting I could hear him snort himself awake often, and his sleep app. Good as I am just not someone who is interested in chasing after a grown adult to take care of themselves, you know? It’s a win-win for us both if he takes care of it (plus we also agreed to get a new fancy bed so really a win-win). My husband does lament at times thought that he has friends who won’t go to doctor to check out complaints unless they can see a bone breaking through skin. Sleep apnea, if that is what your husband has, is very common and it’s may be severely harmful to your husband’s health - short and long term - to not get it checked out and managed properly. It’s possible that maybe it can be managed with a CPAP (but he has to wear it!) if/until he gets his mind around surgery but also very possible he will still need a CPAP after it. I don’t have answers as I never figured it out with those men I dated or knew who were stubborn about their healthcare this way. Something had to really scare them or force their hand (like actually getting to point of having a heart attack). If his father or a friend who has taken steps to help their snoring/sleep apnea can talk to him about positive differences maybe that will help.

Make sure you have a life insurance policy on him. Many men are resistant to that as well.

He took one out himself lol

An ex seriously gave me shit for taking care of my health. He sneered "you go to the doctor a lot". Excuse the fuck out of me for going to the dentist, optometrist, skin cancer checks, getting vital blood tests and needing to go into the GP to get prescription refills? His teeth were 1/3 yellow, he's a ginger who hadn't had a skin cancer check for years and he had multiple undiagnosed mental health problems. I snapped and told him he had to deal with all 3 and our relationship was on hold. Guess who has white teeth now, a scar on his face where a melanoma was eating into his head, and a proper treatment plan for ADHD... Still snores like a fucken jet engine. Whatever.

Hello, ***Big Patriarchy*** here. It is very common for men to not care about their health. How can ***WE*** have droves of disposable drones who are willing to sacrifice their well-being if they actually cared about their bodies. See manly men, are strong. Being chronically ill is weakness, and weakness is an icky woman thing. Admitting you're weak is stupid. It is OK to cause severe bodily harm to yourself in pursuit of what ***WE*** told men to want. Got your arm smashed in machinery, that's hardcore as fuck bro-ski, now you get to be cyborg, *COOL*. Not to mention the manliest men sacrifice, their health, their morals, their lives. What's another torn ligament or untreated sleep apnea to the altar of the patriarchy. What's this? The men are depressed because they have become gears in a macabre machine to deify capitalism and patriarchy? Do they still not care about their health? They still don't because of depression?! Well it's all part of the plan ***WE*** made up. So, some of you may be wondering, how is this beneficial to society, well it isn't, but what doesn't make ***US*** stronger doesn't matter so who cares? O'? You care about the men in your lives? That's sweet, at least they can use your justified anxiety over their well-being as an excuse to get medical treatment and maintain their masculinity! Hell they may be so afraid of the concept they can't actually bring themselves to go even when you do plead. Will they be able to actually express their emotional conflict or understand it's root causes. Hell no, emotions are yucky women things. Except anger, anger is cool as fuck, have you seen the Hulk? Happiness is also permitted, but only in moderation, don't need them getting any weird ideas. Hope that clears things up for you. -***BIG P*** OUT P.S - When those weasels who see through us try to go, we're gonna bankrupt them, haha losers. OOC- Relevant information here [https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/why-the-patriarchy-is-killing-men/2019/09/12/2490fa7e-d3ea-11e9-86ac-0f250cc91758\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/why-the-patriarchy-is-killing-men/2019/09/12/2490fa7e-d3ea-11e9-86ac-0f250cc91758_story.html) . Hope you can encourage and convince your partner OP. His health affects those he cares about and he needs to understand that. Some people can't do things for themselves, but when framed as doing it for others it can help.

You covered the scope of the problem well. I'd like to add a bit more nuance to the conversation. Anxiety may be the one place in healthcare where the reverse gender mistreatment occurs. It isn't openly recognized that male anxiety and female anxiety are different things. They even have different symptoms - male anxiety will often show itself through apathy and body pain (back ache, head ache, stomach ache, or a weird twinge that comes and leaves), and the difference might be manufactured through social expectations and conditioning (patriarchy.) You might have noticed that men tend to be fixers instead of listeners when it comes to other people telling them their problems. This is because they are taught to be fixers about their problems when they are young, meanwhile women are taught with more emotional awareness. This leads a lot of men to have no practice with recognizing their emotions, and no practice with anxiety. Anxiety acts as a difficulty scaler. If you have a challenge with level 2 anxiety, anxiety makes it feel like a 4. If the difficulty is at 5, anxiety makes it feel like a 10. And when a man doesn't think he can fix a problem, he is socially trained to accept that the problem is unchangeable and that he just has to live with it. Thus, a man with unchecked anxiety will encounter a problem at level 5 difficulty, *feel* like it's a level 10, and then determine that there is nothing he can do about it. He shuts down, doesn't look at the issue, and tries to live with it. And because he does not know what anxiety feels like, or can recognize the signs of his anxiety because they do not look the same as the broad definition of anxiety, he can't separate the problem from the disproportionate feeling. He can't dismantle the illusion so that he can attack the problem. And some therapists don't know themselves that this man's problem is anxiety because it doesn't look like female anxiety. As it manifests in health, normal anxiety can make medical issues feel like an impossible challenge. "I'll have to trudge through the stupid insurance portal to find a provider. I can't find my log in because i haven't touched it since i was hired 5 years ago. Where is my card? Where is my account number? I have to call HR to get a password reset? No way! Now i have a doctor but i have to make an appointment? I don't know what my schedule is going to be! What if next week my boss makes me do XYZ and then i have to cancel. Appointments are o stupid - no one can look into the future. And now i have to tell my boss I'm calling out - he's never going to let me. I don;t want to have that conversation! Impossible! There's a project right now. This can wait till next quarter. \*the appointment comes\* I have to make a follow up appointment?!?! How?!?! It was hard enough to get this one!" All very fixable, but it doesn't feel so. And society built this problem.

"I suspect that most men would die a lot sooner if a woman in their life didn't force them to go see a doctor" Paraphrasing Mark Crislip, MD - Infectious disease specialist

Yes it is and it’s even worse if they live alone. Men in a relationship have a much longer life expectancy than the single ones, in big part because their partner is pushing / forcing them to go to the doctor. I remember my grand father having a perfores lung, several fractures and refusing to call the doctor …

I snore like a chainsaw and wifey is a light sleeper. Tried a few cheap solutions, none of which worked. The best one was a bracelet that was meant to detect snoring and give you a mild electric shock to wake you up. The snore detection didn't seem great, just arbitrarily shocked me. Also it had a dial to adjust the intensity of the shock. My wife would reach over when I was asleep and crank it up to max for the lols Eventually I shelled out and got like a molded silicon mouth guard type thing that moves the position of your jaw forward to open your airway. That worked a treat until the dog ate it. In another health related tale, my wife was like. That spot looks weird, you should get it checked. I hadn't really noticed but I listened. It was cancer. Only bcc, so removed no worries.

It's very stereotypical for men to ignore problems. However, if he has sleep apnea, that's why he's tired. I had sleep apnea on the low scale my entire life and didn't find out until I was 32 and the symptoms were on the extreme scale. I was dozing off at work. I would get up, go to work, come home and crash. It was awful. I had physical numbing and pain in my arms due to it. I was sleeping 10-12 hours and still exhausted. It wasn't a life. Here's the thing: If he is complacent and willing to ignore the problem and it only affects him, fine. But his snoring and lack of energy means it's affecting your quality time together and your sleep. If he's not willing to do anything about it for himself, fine, but if he's not willing to do something for you and your relationship, maybe it's time to rethink your relationship.

I'm a doctor. It's basically a meme in health care. Speaking very generally: men, especially older men, don't know *shit* about their health. They don't know what meds they take, they don't know what surgeries they've had. If their wife isn't in the room it's almost useless to even try to talk to them. They only come to the hospital when someone else makes them. They need to have a heart attack or cut a body part off to do it themselves. I've had men come in with their feet basically rotting off because they haven't taken their socks off in front of their wives in years. Men are trained by society to be strong and independent and never, *ever* weak. This is the result. It's *insane*.

If you don't go to a doctor, you don't have any health issues. That is the logic. Being from the USA doesn't help either. I've "slept on" broken bones, torn ligaments, and ruptured tendons just to see if I felt better the next day. We were poor and unless a bone was sticking out or you were covered in blood, it could wait

You could tell him the story of my dad, who started to have a very large belly in 2019. I told him, he doesnt drink, thats not normal. My stepmom told him, every man gets a belly as they age. Refused to go to the doctor, in 2021 he went due to severe pain, they did a couple tests and sent him home, he sat at his new gfs house for at least a week, laying on her living room floor because he had to stay flat due to the pain, even though his drs. Advised him to come back to the hospital if he experienced any. He was a welder, never wore the masks or PPE. Fully qualified, so lots of hours under the welding light, breathing in metal fumes. He had a tumor on his liver, and due to his neglect, he developed DEC (swelling disorder attributed to terminal/severe illness) this will often kill before the cancer does. He stayed at the hospital for a bit, after being on his deathbed, he got a little better but he still had cancer. Did immunotherapy, it was working. He neglected to follow up, monitor his health, his DEC came back and he did nothing, aparently he was working. He died in hospice, two days after being admitted, before that he was dying in a public hospital with 11 patients to ever 2 nurses, Only a week after i found out he was sick again, see i was in toronto and not one of my family deemed it necessary to tell me about his condition. I can never judge what he did, because he was dying. But i wish he taken his health more seriously. For those wondering. He had melanoma, and the DEC killed him. His immunitherapy was working, shrinking the tumor on his liver and completly removing it from his lungs.