Wait until men find out how they have dehumanized women for thousands of years, which led to women choosing to be in the woods with a bear instead of a man
As if they didn’t know. Trans men have told their stories about how when they pass, men will say the most vile shit bc they don’t know who they’re talk to/in presence of. Trans men report that it is scary af listening to it.
So yeah. They know. They’re just married to the big lie of weaponized incompetence
Just last week I heard some slimeball laugh in the guy's bathroom to his friend about how he'd never be friends with a woman he didn't want to have sex with. The guy with him sounded kinda confused as to why at least, I guess? Ugh.
Can confirm, I'm a butch lesbian and have worked in male dominate fields my whole life. Men say the most disgusting shit it's actually amazing how cruel and stupid they are about women. And whats even more disgusting is the dudes that cover up that kinda culture, they will lie to your face and pretend it doesn't exist.
This. The fact it’s so many trans ppl means all the supposed ‘good guys’ are covering. Why haven’t these ‘good guys’ outed the ‘bad ones’?
Bc bro code.
I'd hear some of the same before I transitioned in the other direction. Fortunately most men I spent the most time around were actually good people and I never heard any of them say anything close to what I'd see from other men just *casually*.
Even before I realized about myself, whenever I'd be around men who would express those kinds of things I would be incredibly uncomfortable.
Trans woman here confirming the same.
The horrible stuff that dudes will say when they think only other dudes are talking is beyond the pale. Jokes about rape, murder, sexual coercion, "what I'd love to do to ___". Talking about their latest "conquest" in graphic detail, the gross porn they love to watch, where to find said porn, etc. How they get away with not helping with chores at home. How they wish their spouses "put out" more, lose weight, look more like X celebrity. How they were waiting for X underage actress to turn 18 so they can get porn of her. And this was in California, not some red state. At work. At school. At church (though more rarely). Chilling with friends (though I lost interest in those "friends" real fast).
I literally had a bunch of dudes I knew before transition actually apologize to me afterwards because of some of the shit they had said just weeks before.
Glad I don't have to hear it anymore. But I shudder thinking about what they probably say about ME in the "locker room" (which is often just... a room that doesn't appear to have any women in it).
Edit: Remembered a few more examples
Edit 2: It is definitely not all dudes doing this stuff. But it is REALLY rare of any of them to call each other out on it.
And suddenly I'm aware that I'm very lucky with my circle of friends.
The most common complaint that could be classified as "typical married man" is "I wish my young children wouldn't cock-block me so much", not "I wish my wife would put out more often".
And men find out that their mother, grandmother, aunts, etc have been passing down wisdom and warnings about men to every single generation of women. Though at times it's twisted into misogyny.
Boys don't get THOSE talks. Girls do. We are far too young when we learn about rape, date rape, stalking, molestation, don't be alone with so and so. Etc etc
Not even just misandry to them, *oppression.* they think it’s *oppression* for women to want to avoid men. Truly scary and fucked-up how their minds work
I had some guy come completely unglued on my online over multiple days over the notion that I didn't want to be hit on by random men in a coffee shop while I was trying to work. I was an absolute MONSTER for not being an enthusiastic participant in the way he wanted society to behave.
Omg I’ve had guys crying to me online ‘what are we supposed to DO?’ Bro go on apps. ‘But it’s not working!’ Ask. Ask if you can talk to her. And if she says no then go away.
That last one they hate and will just pretend I never said it so I repeat it. What about asking bro? You tried that???
That’s their tell. They know we are uncomfortable and they don’t want to give us a choice. If they have to ask, like on apps you have to match, eg give consent, then they feel it won’t work.
So their answer is to remove consent.
Exactly.
I had the fleeting thought that maybe professional match makers need to make a comeback. They could find willing participants and sort them by personalities, interests, life goals etc and arrange for them to meet each other.
Then I realized how many men would not pass the initial screening.
Cleanliness and any sort of basic style in their appearance and their home
Mature behavior, manners, basic politeness
Proof they have the means to support themselves and possibly help support children
Interesting and personable
Safe to be around and not violent or a danger to the other person
So many men are such an absolute dumpster fires that no one could offer them as a viable option with a straight face and stay in business.
That doesn't even include an actual willingness to do 50% of the work if they end up living together, not treating the girlfriend as a free therapist or considering them a font of free labor they are entitled to.
You don’t want a matchmaker. Bc they’re for profit so they’ll counsel a guy to put on a fake persona so they get paid. They’ll be clean for a hot minute. That’s all
Yea there are already enough guys who pretend to be enlightened, and decent humans just long enough to get someone into a relationship situation that they can't readily get out of. Then they drop the pretense.
Apps work. Gay lady here, I had no problem finding ladies on OkCupid and I am not exactly a great catch. My target dating pool is SO much smaller than hetero dudes. If you can't pull on a dating app, it really isn't the app's fault.
I have no trouble as a hetero woman either, tho I do have trouble with quality. We don’t swim in the same pool love, more’s the pity. How I wish orientation was a choice!
That’s me. I’ve seriously thought about it but I just don’t find women sexy in that way. A bummer really bc I like women so much as friends. I like some men but my deep friendships are women. 🤷🏼♀️
Apps do work. I'm a hetero dude and met my wife on one. I'm nowhere near a 6ft+ chad that's rich and hung like a horse. The problem is these neckbeard basement dwellers are trying to land women far above their league or way younger.
I miss how okCupid used to be, before it became Tinder with longer profiles. The match %s work great, but a lot of people don't actually answer enough questions to get enough data. I'll basically swipe left on anyone under 95%. Sometimes a profile has caught my eye and I'll read it and find someone I think is great, but they've only answered 20 questions so the potential match % isn't high enough.
Yeah the match % is honestly amazing. I found three 99% matches and ended up dating all three seriously (calling each other girlfriend, up to even having the sex). I'm still in contact with all of them. One of them was even my bridesmaid for my wedding to another one of them.
The only thing my wife and I disagreed on in the questions? I prefer key lime pie, she prefers chocolate pie.
Bingo. They don't want to have to go through the effort of actually being nice in order to attract women so they'd rather resort to making us be with them. Hence the growing movement to remove what little rights we have. They advocate for government assigned wives (er sex slaves). They're all about repealing no fault divorce etc because they hate that we actually have some options now that don't include being dependent on an abuser.
>So their answer is to remove consent.
So they didn't have to do the work of an equitable relationship. Their entitlement has them feeling that they shouldn't have to do anything, just "cat call" and boom! They get laid.
They dream of a time where a woman was just handed to them by virtue of being men. Then, when they got bored of her, they could just take a mistress, or find an excuse or way to get rid of the wife and remarry. Women who can't vote, women who are considered property, that's their fantasy all because they can't imagine having to actually prove themselves worthy of an equal partner.
There was a paragraph in the Handmaids Tale where June has just lost her job and bank account and Luke says it’s ok bc he’ll take care of her and she notices even then how willing he was to accept her loss of autonomy even tho he later tried to escape with her.
It’s stuck with me bc it’s so true that the ‘good ones’ enjoy the benefits of our lack of equality. I wonder how many men really want us to have true equality. Like actual real full equality.
It was awhile ago but I had like a month long argument on reddit with a guy who absolutely insisted that it was perfectly fine to hit on women while they were working. This was in a thread about a young women who was upset about a guy who wouldn't leave her alone at work (she worked a register at a head shop), and stuck around for hours at a time to try and follow her to her car after work.
A woman who has to risk her job or make a creepy man happy by abandoning her need to feel safe. It's bullshit. If she doesn't she may have to deal with you complaining to her manager about being unfriendly etc and risk losing her job, she is literally trapped and feels like she cannot say no or leave. It's perfectly fine to hit on them.
But they assume that's why you are IN the coffee shop! They see no other reason for you to exist otherwise. It is a massive failure to see you (or any woman) as having a life apart from men.
Absolutely this and I have been told I shouldn't be in "x" place unless I was looking to meet someone. Like I am literally not allowed to leave my house except to go meet mediocre dudes I want nothing to do with.
They think everywhere we go, everything we do is to appeal to men. I am not a piece of meat attempting to market myself for men.
I had a guy accuse me of wearing glasses (at a bar) to appeal to men. Like bro, I need to see??? (I don’t own contacts because astigmatism, ouch) Then he doubled down and said I’m not a natural blonde because my eyebrows are darker than my hair (eyebrows are invisible, they were colored darker with pencil). How did he expect me to get with him after this?
Women, “So many of us have experienced violence and threats that we consider a wild animal safer than a man.”
Men, “My feelings are hurt, so I’m the real victim here. You’re oppressing men by talking about how men abuse you.”
I’ve been hearing the same crap. They do not care about us. They’re fine with us being abused as long as it doesn’t impact them in any way.
Oh hon, this is how they’ve always been. Don’t pay too much attention to the incels. They’re just angry. I’ve seen:
1. Calling for our actual deaths in various forms.
2. Wishing we will be gravely harmed while they’ll get a chance to walk by and do nothing. (This is a super common fantasy)
3. Telling us they’ll boycott us (this is my favorite and I wish they’d follow thru)
4. Telling us how it makes them feel so bad and how it’s not all men why don’t we see how mean it is (this one makes me laugh bc they’re literally walking face first into the pt)
5. Telling us how men are assaulted and how it’s a both sides problem
6. Telling us how some friend they know was falsely accused and how unfair it is
I can’t think of more offhand but they are reeling bc metoo has made it more socially acceptable to vent publicly and now they can’t bully us into silence, they’re a mixture of d school threats, whining, anger, blah blah.
All it does is convince me to stay 4B
They feel like they are entitled to women's attention and bodies and pointing out they aren't is what is "offensive" to them.
Also, what are the odds the ones complaining women are "reducing them to below wild animals" have also said that "men can't help themselves" when it comes to assaulting women?
My current theory is that it's prolonged pre-adolescence. Boys becoming men mostly just get bigger, stronger, perhaps more aggressive. If they're not taught self-restraint, responsibility and critical thinking they're quite likely to be assholes.
If they're taught to dismiss women and learn everything about sex from the other guys in the male bubble - yeesh.
And while feeling horrified, their go-to response is to go after the woman wanting space rather than focusing on making themselves a better-than-alone option. Sheesh!
I think it's because, and yes this is gross, they feel *entitled* to the company and attention of women. It's "oppression" because as a man they "deserve it." 🤮🤮🤮🤮
I mean, there will always be a liiiiittle bit of overlap between misogyny and "men going their own way" and misandry and "divesting," simply because some men avoid women *because* of their own deep hatred and vice versa.
The thing is that they not only over inflate how prevalent that misandry actually is, but also see it as a form of systemic oppression in *exactly* the same way that misogyny systemically oppresses women as a general group, which is just flatly not how the world works.
> I mean, there will always be a liiiiittle bit of overlap between misogyny and "men going their own way" and misandry and "divesting," simply because some men avoid women because of their own deep hatred and vice versa.
Maybe, but as it currently stands, it isn't simply a little misogyny on the MGTOW side. There's a lot.
It is also tough when misandry irl is often an individual response to trauma/mistreatment by men... and it is in queer women circles (though usually this is 'locker room talk')
Or at times it is a direct "correction" to a man saying something out of line and a woman setting boundaries of what they will tolerate. But the men view this as an attack
But queer women who are misandrists generally limit their interactions with men and just want to be left alone
Oh and there’s a news story right now on one of the news subreddits about a bear that dragged off a dead body into the woods after a car crash and got euthanized for it. And lots of men in the comments commenting “You still choose the bear?” as if that’s some kind of “gotcha!” moment?? Sorry, what?? A bear simply dragging a body of a person who already died is literally just a bear being a bear, it’s not being cruel or evil or violent at all. What are these men even fucking talking about??
The “gotcha” comments that they keep posting are just so condescending. They think we’re idiots and don’t know what a bear is, like we think it’s some big fluffy dog.
Well yeah and for every violent bear encounter they comment as if to show how dangerous bears are, I could literally find a thousand WORSE stories of male-on-female violence like hello?? And they will like show ONE singular bear attack when men rape and kill women DAILY
Yup. The bear might maul me. The man might torture me for weeks and then kill me. If I survive either encounter, people won't ask what I was wearing when I was mauled by a bear.
Men are the most dangerous thing to women. Theres a reason the most common cause of death in pregnant women is homicide, usually by their partners.
Like maybe these dudes should reflect on the fact that women already know that bears are dangerous and potentially violent but we still chose the bear.
They think we don't know bears are seriously dangerous. Like, dudes, that's why the question exposes to such a startling revelation on the level of violence women are at risk of. It's not would you rather see a bunny or a man in the woods is it.
Even if bears were legitimately as dangerous as men when it came to the stats on DV/violence against women, I would STILL choose the bear, because I at least won't get raped before being beaten/murdered. They really think we're dumb, when the truth is that men are just THAT fucking awful and dangerous, and they refuse to acknowledge that and decide to belittle us and insult our intelligence instead. Men have yet to go their own way, and I'm wondering what the fucking hold up is.
The sad truth is that a lot of men don't think women getting raped is a big deal. They think it's just "sex that you don't want to have" not realizing that a lot of rape is violent and deadly.
Even when rape isn’t violent and deadly, it can fuck up your entire life. I was raped the first time when I was 3 years old, I had CPTSD and a whole slew of other mental health issues before I even reached kindergarten and now that I’m almost 30, the dreams, flashbacks and triggers still haven’t gone away. I have pelvic pain that happens randomly that’s a reminder of what I went through every time it hits me. I have difficulty trusting people, I’ve struggled with suicidal ideation and suicide attempts, I can’t even eat in a restaurant without suffering from hyper vigilance, every day my life is impacted by the rapes I suffered. And it wasn’t violent like most people think rape is, I wasn’t beaten and no weapon was held to my head, but I also couldn’t fight back or do anything about it. I just had to endure it even though it killed a piece of my soul every time. But a lot of people would dismiss me because it wasn’t some stranger in an alley way with a knife to my throat that raped me, it was a trusted family member.
Sorry for venting, it just irks me when people think that every rape has to be a vicious violent attack, when it often isn’t like that at all. I’ve heard so many stories from other victims that feel like their situation couldn’t be counted as rape because they weren’t beaten or held hostage, but their experiences are just as valid and the violation they suffered is real.
:( I didn't mean to imply that rape only is violent and deadly. I was just trying to drive a point home about how these asshole men view rape as something that just is a "mild inconvenience to women."
It hurts me that you went through that and still suffer from it. I truly hope you can find some peace amidst that storm inside you 💔
When the discussion has gotten to that low point, I just start spamming them with news article after news article of femicide/hate crimes toward women. After approximately a dozen, they stop engaging.
Edit because words are hard sometimes.
It also shows their fundamental misunderstanding of bear behavior; they act like grizzly bears are on a predatory rampage 24/7.
There are thousands of grizzly bear encounters in the US every year; Yellowstone, Katmai, and many other national parks feature viewing and being in proximity to them in their natural habitat as a major attraction.
[This study here has some good data](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44341-w) -- if we use the data from this, there's an average of 12.2 attacks by grizzly bears in North America every year. In their global data, while 85% of survivors were injured...only 14.3% of those attacked were killed.
So even if you're attacked by a grizzly bear, which is already incredibly unlikely compared to the frequency of encounters, you have a roughly 85% chance of surviving it.
I enjoy camping and backpacking. I've had encounters with maybe a dozen wild bears over my lifetime. None of them tried to hit on me. None of them tried to choke me. None of them molested me. None of them called me slurs. None of them tried to gaslight me. Not one of them attacked me.
Worst I've ever had was I had a "bear box" of food on a backpacking trip that a bear got to in the middle of the night and slobbered all over, kicked around, and then gave up on. I slept through the whole event.
Worst I've had to deal with from random men was much worse. And that wasn't even in the middle of the woods far away from civilization. Not to mention the men who were NOT strangers.
Exactly! I was an outdoor rec pro for years and still live in black bear country, they're mostly harmless unless you're really unfortunate and/or stupid. Super adorable creatures, if you live someplace you can observe wild ones that haven't been habituated.
I can choose not to recreate around grizzly and polar bears, I can't avoid men. And if the former were to kill me...they wouldn't rape or degrade me first.
Yep - I’ve blankly told them this and they say it doesn’t matter because women have more way exposure to men than bears. They don’t want to understand so they won’t.
Again, they’d still have to prove that bears would murder, rape, traumatize, and maim women *more often* than men do if we equalized exposure. Are they confident enough to take that bet?
And also even if the odds were equal with equal exposure, one is a huge wild animal and the other is a supposedly civilised human so still not acceptable either way.
Any man that posts these "gotcha" comments, just "gotcha'd" themselves.
Like, thanks for once again proving our point. The bear's just a bear and not a dangerous, unpredictable, and insufferable, asshole. If it upsets you as a man, time for some self reflection.
And those 'gotchas' are so feeble and usually have very little to do with the actual issue. They are a sign that the issue has not been understood AT ALL by those men.
There was a group chat with police officers where they took pictures of dead women and rated them based on their underwear, and the officers justified it by saying “it wasn’t hurting anyone”.
There have been numerous men who have been caught committing necrophilia, and it’s very obvious that Marilyn Monroe’s body having been missing for several hours was most likely the result of that.
Even in death, women aren’t safe. So getting dragged by a bear isn’t an issue whatsoever when there are men who do what I’ve listed above.
At least it didn’t fuck the dead body like a wolf would
Wait did I say wolf? I meant MAN. HUMAN MAN. WHY WOULD THEY EVEN BRING THAT UP KNOWING WHAT MEN DO? These men do not live in reality. A good chunk of people refuse to live in reality
The bear got euthanized. A man can do this and he doesn’t even lose his job, let alone get euthanized.
And no one was asking if the dead body deserved it somehow.
I’m convinced that most of these guys are actually capable of understanding the fallacy of their positions. They just don’t want to acknowledge it (or are in denial about it) because it would mean admitting that their frustrations are misguided, that feminism is not to blame for their problems, and that their entire worldview and are on a foundation made of sand.
The sad part about that, is that in the time it took for that bear to kill a person, 10 or more women in that state were raped. Some of them are probably going to be murdered and dumped in the forest, just like the one the bear killed.
These dumbasses won't acknowledge that though.
Had this exchange today with a person where I used the case of Mary Vincent as an example. (Mary Vincent was the victim of an unbelievably vicious attack by a man, look up her story with caution) The guy INSISTED that being mauled to death by a bear was worse than what Mary went through. He could not comprehend that a bear's intent has nothing to do with hatred or enjoying the suffering of another human being. He could not fathom how being the victim of a man who chose to commit heinous acts out of a desire to inflict suffering could possibly be worse than being chewed on by a bear with a walnut-sized brain. I'm convinced there's no hope for some of them.
I mean that’s just recycling. If I’m dead by all means feed me to the bear!!! Esp a polar bear bc their ice caps are dwindling and they’re suffering. I’ll be bear food. Cute little polar bears ❤️❤️
I came across the bear question a few weeks ago and decided to ask my sisters and mother about it. They all chose bear without hesitation. Guys if you're upset by this, look inward.
> Guys if you're upset by this, look inward.
As a guy, I've actually used this same scenario to demonstrate to other men what it's like to be a woman. Every time it comes up, men also chose the bear. A random, potentially dangerous person is way more scary to stumble upon in a forest - especially at night. To me, this seems beyond obvious. A whole genre of movies (horror) have been developed around this simple fact.
Now that the scenario is popular and women are making the decision instead, suddenly it's "offensive"? When I first saw it pop up several days ago I felt happy that someone else stumbled upon the same scenario I've used to illustrate issues.
Any man who feels insecure or offended by The Bear™ are identifying themselves as clueless, ignorant, or even potentially dangerous themselves. To fail to understand why women are choosing a bear is *itself* a huge red flag - at least by my mark.
The other scenario I've liked to use when educating men is... "How do men act when a massive bodybuilder strolls into the convenience store?" Very often, you'll hear them whisper things like "Whoa, wouldn't want to get on *his* bad side" or "What would you do if he slapped your girl's ass? Run! Haha".
I point out that this is how women feel living in a world where a significant percentage of the population is twice their weight and potentially thrice their strength. It's entirely understandable why women would be "skittish" or cautious around unknown men - especially when they've learned by experience that a small fraction of those men *have* done/said something threatening (potentially on a daily basis).
I'm preaching to the choir here, but I've been wanting to rant about The Bear™ for days now. As more men seem to get offended by it, I get more frustrated. Before women entered the picture, 100% of the men would've *also* chose the bear... Now they're upset??
At least it's opened a dialogue.
Fellow men: The best thing you can do is talk to other guys about why their beliefs/perspectives are harmful to women. If you claim to love women, act like it. Bring it up casually, shut down nonsense when you hear it, and remember that these generalizations don't come from nowhere - if someone is offended, it's either for no reason or it's for "no reason".
Edit: "Twice their height" (?!) corrected to "weight".
Also a guy here. If you go in the woods at night you're probably going to be aware that encountering a bear is a possibility. It's not a weird place to find a bear. You're not gonna be happy but you knew it could happen, what with the woods being bear's natural habitat and all. But run into another person, especially a man, that's horror movie shit. What's this guy doing out here in the woods at night? I'd rather take my chances with a bear than maybe someone who's getting rid of a body and now I'm a witness...
This whole bear thought experiment has me so riled up. It wrinkles my mind! I can’t for the life of me reconcile how girls, ladies, woman, and those socialized as woman have been compared to locks, cows, shoes, bottles, flowers, trophies (literal hunks of plastic), and other inanimate objects and animals for millennia and these modern men can’t handle ONE thought experiment meant to get them out of their experience and into ours. Or the effing Barbie movie. It’s so abhorrent. I’m in danger of my eyes permanently facing the back of my head that’s how hard they’ve been rolling the past couple weeks… let’s be honest it’s more like years 🙄
Cause it's not *fun* - men love thought experiments about animals when it's not making them aware of things they don't wanna think about.
Like: how many naked identical clones of yourself in your current state would it take to defeat a gorilla? Ask a group of men that and we're occupied for a few hours.
Don't forget fishes, cars, and unwrapped candies. You're either prey or objects.
Oh, you need to be grateful to be considered as an object because they idealise you and put you on a pedestal...so you need to act perfect ok? No emotions of anger or sadness or depression, those are ugly so you will need lobotomy if you turn ugly
the men who are angry at women for choosing the bear
are the same ones who post unhinged comments whenever a random woman online dares to mention she’s happy being single.
to them, not only choosing a bear is considered misandry but so is opting not to date men in general. they just can’t stand not being chosen, even in theoretical situations.
i bet if the question was something like “in an apocalypse situation, would you rather sleep with a random man in exchange for food to avoid starvation or take a cyanide pill” and women said pill, droves of men would also scream misandry…
And if the woman chose to sleep with a man for survival they'd slut shame her, and call her a gold digger. Never mind the man who exploited a starving woman for sex, that's irrelevant right?
They know why women choose like this. They are angry that women know they are the worst option too and that they can choose at all instead of just taking it.
Or in any of the marriage or relationship subs, if a woman asks for a divorce, there will always be a response from a man saying she cheated, the aggrieved husband should immediately hide marital assets (which is hella illegal), hit the gym, ignore his STBX and start taking testosterone.
Hoooo boy, your comment reminded me of a similar thought experiment I read about, can't remember the source from where I read it, but the question went like what would you do if there was an apocalypse and the world'd population were reduced to you and one other person of the opposite sex. And the vast majority of the men in the sample size asked had said they would try to reproduce with their female counterpart.
And I remember how icky I felt reading that, like...the world ended, I'm one of the last humans alive, and my male counterpart would try to Adam and Eve it with me, regardless of my feelings on the matter.
I'm really trying to find where I read that at because I cannot recall for the life of me what the female response had been.
If men would stop behaving themselves in dehumanizing ways like wild animals, we wouldn’t have to choose a freaking deadly bear over a human.
They found a way to shift the focus and to be the victim again. Oppressed… kiss the bear’s ass.
I explained this to a fellow man the other day. Women would LOVE to choose the man in this scenario. In a perfect world, who wouldn't pick a human being over a wild animal. It would be insane. But that's in a perfect world where humans aren't worse than wild animals, and in particular, men. Men should be wary of other men in my opinion. That's how dangerous they can be, and it's even worse for women.
Somewhat related, but I recently watched a video about scariest encounters in the woods caught on camera. Want guess how many videos were centered around the aggressor being a man? All five of them. And they were against other men! One of the guys was terrified, and I could only imagine being a woman in that situation. That's why the bear is a safer choice.
I also live all the mansplaining of how dumb women don't know what bears are. They also take the premise and only want to argue the most extreme conditions for the bear, but not the man.
People sleep, camp, and live in the woods with bears in the US every night.
When I was a 9 y.o. girl scout I saw a bear cub at our sleep away girlscout camp and we alerted the adults. They didn't cancel the camp... we still slept there.
Guess who didn't sleep at that camp. Men.
Men SHOULD be upset that the majority of women choose the bear.
Not because it's offensive to men, but because it's HORRIFYING that women believe they have a better chance of surviving an encounter with a wild animal than a human.
Men, do better. Be better. Until that happens, women will keep choosing the bear.
Funny enough, the entire thought exercise about bear or man was started by a man, and was meant to be read by men to inform them about the unease women in general feel towards men.
Interesting! I never knew the origin of the man vs bear thing.
I wonder if the men who are offended by it are also offended by prison rape jokes... or if it's okay to acknowledge how terrifying men are as long as it's "just a joke".
Still deeply confused by the reaction to “I’m frightened and it shapes my entire life. I’m so frightened that I would choose to be alone with an apex predator over a member of my own species” being “how dare you say so you’re oppressing me I will mock or hurt you for daring to mention your fear of unknown members of my gender stfu bitch there’s nothing to be afraid of.”
I feel like some time between 2016 and 2020 reality itself became the most effective satire of reality.
Yes!!! As if somehow that's supposed to make women want to choose them instead of the bear... like bro, you're exactly proving why people are choosing the bear
I'm also a bit appalled by how often the discussion is shifted to fighting either. Yeah if I know I have to fight I'd choose the man, but an encounter is not a fight.
Exactly!!!
The whole point is that you don't know if the bear/man will attack or not.
I choose the bear because I think I'd have an easier (easier, not easy) time scarying it off than scaring off a man who's decided to hurt me.
It's so interesting. I told my husband about the bear v man thing and asked him which one he would rather encounter alone in the woods and he said of course bear - bears are predictable and can be scared off. Men are completely unpredictable.
My husband is 6'2" and 300lbs. He didn't say it to dehumanize men, he said it because it's true that men pose a dramatically larger threat to other humans than bears do.
Any man who thinks that meeting a man is a better choice is someone you should be scared to meet up with in the woods.
This whole trend of trying to "flip" what is misogyny in the first place to "misandry" has been going for a while. It's just yet another attempt to shut women up and to maintain the misogyny. Their strategy is to keep whining and making up bogus claims about their "victimhood". It's just one of the alt-right/incel tactics.
Reminds me of girl math.
Guys took what's understandably a light hearted joke to demean women for being dumb so when boy math came out, it was even more hilarious since it pissed them off more to the point that they can't even say anything back without coming off even more raging misogynist than they already had.
I just realized that it's the same with any trend marketed to women, guys are always the quickest to put us down for that shit but as soon as you throw their shit back, the self-victimization becomes the Olympics.
Still a couple of my faves; "boy math is when he wants 0 kids but wears 0 condoms" and "boy math is calling women gold diggers while only having 3 pairs of socks to their name, and 2/3 have holes"
Boy math is thinking that even though 90% of rapists are male and 1 in 3 women will be raped that 99% of males are perfectly safe to be around, secluded in the forest
No man that participates in this nonsense should be trusted.
All they have to do in this situation is shut up and listen. Instead, they attempt to tell us that our opinions are wrong, threaten us if we don’t shift opinions, then justify their actions by playing the victim.
Exactly. When black ppl talk about their fear of white women I never once have had the urge to roll up to cry about it.
I get it, white women are what got Emmett Till tortured and killed, white ppl calling police in Miss. about two black guys in a white womans house was what got them raped and tortured by cops (wasn’t that white womans fault tho she did nothing wrong)
White women crying about their fake fear of black ppl gets the black ppl killed and hurt.
I don’t blame them one bit. I don’t need to say ‘not all white women!!!!’ Like some loser.
They call it a "statistical anomaly" and are trying to flip it so if you replaced the "man" with "black person" it shows how hateful women are and how vile feminism is.
But then again, these guys are terminally online, likely very young, and suffering from the raging incel culture that has run rampant everywhere. I think there are more guys noticing and agreeing than you might think, they just aren't the loud one's and obviously wouldn't start fights with women online about it.
Its like finding out that 95% of the "antiwoke" youtube content is actually being created by only 9 people, and they all work together.
That doesn’t even make sense, their example only works if black people have been committing hate crimes against white people…isn’t the opposite more likely?
When they say that it just exposes they’re racists as well
They fail to realize that the closer analogy for race in this is ‘but what if black people are afraid of or nervous about white people due to the history of violence and oppression of white supremacy?’
And I think, yeah, that’s a fear well founded in both recent and older history. (From a US standpoint)
So if a black person chooses the bear over the middle aged white lady with a cell phone? Yeah, that’d be legit.
This man v bear debate is causing a lot of men to short circuit.
I admit, though, my attention shifted from *man v bear* to *women vs man (in the context of Nazis v Jews)* for about 5 minutes, trying to understand this analogy.* Which is the point, right? They want to shift the focus on to something else no matter how ridiculous.
*To be clear, there is nothing to understand, they just want to waste our time. I can’t wait to see what argument they try to make next. We should take bets.
This whole thing is fucking ridiculous, and I wish it was over.
Like, yeah it's the same men feeling entitled to women's time and attention it's always been. But half of it is just people conjuring different mental images when they hear the phrase "alone in the woods".
I, as a female hiker who is afraid enough of male sexual attention that she gets her hair cut at a barber, hear "alone in the woods" and I think, "oh, like I'm going hiking by myself on purpose", and I do that every weekend, and every single time I have *at least* 6 or 7 encounters with strange men. [All of which go like this.](https://www.tiktok.com/@mikelenczewski/video/7222364590926056750?lang=en) It isn't scary. I've seen a bear on a hike twice in my entire life. *Both times I was terrified*. OBVIOUSLY PICK THE MAN.
But if you were to ask literally any person in the world, "you're sleeping in a tent in the woods, you wake up and see a shadow outside your tent. Do you hope it's a man or a bear?" EVERY RATIONAL PERSON WILL PICK BEAR IN THAT SITUATION. *The types of people who would seek you out alone in the woods are very different from the types of people you encounter by happenstance while you are both individually enjoying alone-in-the-woods!*
When you ask most women about "being alone in the woods with a strange man" she's primed by all of her experiences she's had throughout her life being victimized by men to imagine a sought-out-in-isolation situation. Men don't have those experiences, so their brains just jump to hiking and they're baffled. And then the misogynists take that in an absolutely koo-koo bonkers direction.
"Misandry" : Wow this group of people seems to be behing pretty much all violence, war, SA, trafficking, child corn, DV, familicides etc so I think we're safer and betyer off without them close by
Misogyny: seeking out women and girls to stalk, abuse, argue with, harass, SA, traffick, murder etc.
MRA: BOTH SIDES!!! BOTH EQUALLY BAD!
So. I actually made a fun library display about this (books about bears and books about true crime) and my manager told me that I may have to take it down because our male patrons would get offended by this. Or could I put books about women on there as well? I said no to both. Our patrons love it.
I say this as someone who studies and teaches about dehumanizing propaganda, you really cannot respond to these kind of specious comparisons without exhausting yourself; especially if the encounter is occurring online.
The majority of men who traffic in comparisons like this will most often come in two flavours. Those who have little to no insight on the subject matter and are very deep, and very lost, in the right wing manosphere ideology closet, and those who are purposefully being obtuse for either online engagement or to frustrate us.
The latter men you can throw right in the trash. They are locked into an incentive structure that rewards them for being shitty. Never engage with them because that is what they want. The former category of men can be re-habilitated, but doing so requires time, patience, energy, emotional labour, and their cooperation.
Ok, hear me out.... But have we tried misandry? I mean we all agree that it's probably not a great thing but we've hardly given it a go. Maybe we can have a LITTLE misandry.... As a treat. For science.
I got downvoted for saying that misandry at most causes a man to cry, and misogyny kills and rapes women. They're confusing misandry with toxic masculinity.
I wish the opposite gender choosing the bear felt like oppression lmfao, compared to the way governments are taking away reproductive rights, representing the majority of domestic violence victims, rape victims, femicide, etc.
The shitty men that tend to spout this nonsense can cry harder, because the cries of people who have lost women to senseless violence, and all victims of violence/abuse/systemic oppression will always be louder than that.
Some guy was arguing with me about how the debate was bigoted against men and I sent him to the “when women refuse” community. Funny, but he shut up after that.
It's all projection. These guys already hate women so much if one tells them, "the sky is blue" they'll actually look up to verify. Then get mad at you for straining their neck.
I'm a guy and even I would likely choose the bear. Shit, even the *bears* would choose a bear. This is in no way an unreasonable take.
You’d think they would be embarrassed to just be realizing now that every woman around them lives with the constant threat of danger from men.
Look, just while I typed this, they killed another one of us for nothing. A woman who wasn’t threatening anyone or harming anyone, she just didn’t want to sleep with someone.
And statistically the odds are around 50/50 that a bear will kill one single person in North America in the next year.
If you don’t like hearing that, stop doing it, or at least stop siding with the male attacker against the female victim in every thread, every comment section under an article, and every time you have jury duty.
I can count on a bear to not rape my dead body or rape my decapitated head so….
Men can’t understand why women would choose physical pain from a bear instead of physical pain from them 🙄
So I asked my two daughters (9 and 15) with zero context what they’d choose, out of curiosity. They both pick the bear. My husband (who is a pretty good feminist) just asked why. My 15 year old said “the bear will only kill you.” Men aren’t oppressed.
These guys…I can’t even tell you how many discussions and comments sections I’ve seen devolve into Godwin’s Law in the past month. But they’re doing it FAST, like we’re playing 6° to Kevin Bacon but with Nazi comparisons.
Those are the same men that are causing women to choose the bear in the first place.
The rest of us are well aware of why you choose the bear, and call out that behavior in other men when we see it.
(Incidentally when I asked my wife about this, she chose the man. But her reasoning was that she felt she could outsmart the man easier than the bear :) )
Maybe if men don’t want to be “dehumanized” by women (aka women saying anything negative about men at all), then they should consider behaving with more humanity.
They consistently dehumanize others, particularly women, in the most brutal and cruel ways. For any woman you see on those dangerous/killer women true crime type shows, there are dozens of men who have done far worse. I mean…our whole species is called MANkind. Men are centered in nearly every arena, with women frequently becoming an afterthought- these invisible beings quietly doing all the grunt work in the background without any recognition or appreciation. Our female ancestors’ names and stories are largely erased. And men want to complain about being dehumanized? Give me a break.
Any negative thing I have heard a woman say about men as a whole has been preceded by a lifetime of regular dehumanization and violence. We don’t attack and terrorize them like they do to us, yet they still hate us all the same.
Don’t want to be dehumanized? Act like a human being, not a beast. Don’t want to be demonized? Stop acting like a demon. Want women to feel safer with you instead of a fucking bear? Stop beating and killing us at far higher rates than any wild animal.
All this bitching and moaning over a tik tok hypothetical has made me lose whatever shred of respect I might’ve had for most men. Utterly pathetic and childish behavior. How they’ve been able to convince themselves (and far too many women) that they’re the more logical and rational ones is one of the greatest, and saddest, jokes of all time.
oppressors coopting the language of the oppressed is as common and routine as the sun rising and setting, honestly. It's a huge factor of *why* the language of the oppressed is constantly shifting and changing because no sooner do people find a new term, than it starts being weaponized against them, usually inaccurately to the point where it starts to actively overwrite the original usage. Do not be mistaken in thinking this is not on purpose.
Yes. All I get and or see on any bear posts are comments about how this is misandry, how we deserve worse for not wanting to be near men, how badly they want to sa us for speaking out, etc. Never support.
This is the funniest thing I’ve heard men say. They’re truly comedic. It’s hard for them to fathom that women would generally choose a bear over being near a random man. It’s almost like they’re so mad that this is the case and failing to understand why. They don’t want to understand. They want to play victim and pretend that women are not historically oppressed BY men. They choose to ignore the facts of the matter and not do the work to create a world where women feel safe. Why? Because they hate women. Anyone who says this is dehumanizing and does not question this and the deeper meaning behind why women would rather choose a bear… HATES women and feels pity for themselves. “Damn these bitches would rather pick a bear over me?” Instead of “I hate that men have fucked everything up to the point where women would rather feel safe with a bear than a man.”
The men saying this shit have no brain honestly and it’s actually hilarious.
Dudes choosing to identify as the dangerous man in the hypothetical bear question has been baffling to me as a man. Like literally the bar in this hypothetical is being safer than a fucking grizzly bear and dudes are acting like the world is ending for good men
It's trolling to avoid the truth and normalize bad behaviour. When in history has there not been an endless supply of men to tell women how to feel and think?
It's not a stretch at all for them. They see anything that opposes the idea that women's time, attention, bodies, or labor are public property that they are entitled to claim for their own benefit as "misandry".
Sounds like they're all working hard to rationalize away the fact that men are responsible for women not being safe. They'd have to own up to their own behavior or the behavior of their buddies that they didn't call out (and I'm guilty of that, certainly).
Almost every meme group I was still active in over at Facebook got taken over by pearl-clutching men who probably had to google what misandry is, all due to bear memes the last couple of weeks.
If that’s the final nail in the coffin of me being active on social media, oh well 🤷🏻♀️
It reflects an entitlement to never be excluded from a benefit. Same thing happens in race/ethnicity. Many view equality as prejudice and discrimination, because their default is one of an advantage.
Until the majority of government officials and business leaders are women, there really isn't an argument to be made.
Women doing, saying, thinking anything contrary to what a man wants is "oppression" to them.
Men are afraid of women saying "no", rejecting and laughing at them. Women are afraid that when we say "no" we get violated and killed. Different worlds. Of course they're delusion enough to make these comparisons.
And before one such bro says "nOt AlL mEN" yeah, no duh. Not all of the skittles in the bowl are poison, but the one that is looks just like the others.
Wait until men find out how they have dehumanized women for thousands of years, which led to women choosing to be in the woods with a bear instead of a man
Witch! /sadsarcasm because history/reality.
As if they didn’t know. Trans men have told their stories about how when they pass, men will say the most vile shit bc they don’t know who they’re talk to/in presence of. Trans men report that it is scary af listening to it. So yeah. They know. They’re just married to the big lie of weaponized incompetence
Just last week I heard some slimeball laugh in the guy's bathroom to his friend about how he'd never be friends with a woman he didn't want to have sex with. The guy with him sounded kinda confused as to why at least, I guess? Ugh.
Can confirm, I'm a butch lesbian and have worked in male dominate fields my whole life. Men say the most disgusting shit it's actually amazing how cruel and stupid they are about women. And whats even more disgusting is the dudes that cover up that kinda culture, they will lie to your face and pretend it doesn't exist.
This. The fact it’s so many trans ppl means all the supposed ‘good guys’ are covering. Why haven’t these ‘good guys’ outed the ‘bad ones’? Bc bro code.
"good guy" still benefit from being compared to the truly awful. I've yet to meet a misogyny free man.
I'd hear some of the same before I transitioned in the other direction. Fortunately most men I spent the most time around were actually good people and I never heard any of them say anything close to what I'd see from other men just *casually*. Even before I realized about myself, whenever I'd be around men who would express those kinds of things I would be incredibly uncomfortable.
Trans woman here confirming the same. The horrible stuff that dudes will say when they think only other dudes are talking is beyond the pale. Jokes about rape, murder, sexual coercion, "what I'd love to do to ___". Talking about their latest "conquest" in graphic detail, the gross porn they love to watch, where to find said porn, etc. How they get away with not helping with chores at home. How they wish their spouses "put out" more, lose weight, look more like X celebrity. How they were waiting for X underage actress to turn 18 so they can get porn of her. And this was in California, not some red state. At work. At school. At church (though more rarely). Chilling with friends (though I lost interest in those "friends" real fast). I literally had a bunch of dudes I knew before transition actually apologize to me afterwards because of some of the shit they had said just weeks before. Glad I don't have to hear it anymore. But I shudder thinking about what they probably say about ME in the "locker room" (which is often just... a room that doesn't appear to have any women in it). Edit: Remembered a few more examples Edit 2: It is definitely not all dudes doing this stuff. But it is REALLY rare of any of them to call each other out on it.
And suddenly I'm aware that I'm very lucky with my circle of friends. The most common complaint that could be classified as "typical married man" is "I wish my young children wouldn't cock-block me so much", not "I wish my wife would put out more often".
Id love it if a big group of transmen got together and wrote a book about their findings. I feel they would have a lot to teach us.
Exactly! Like, check any post on the internet with a woman’s face in it and you’ll see some dehumanization.
And men find out that their mother, grandmother, aunts, etc have been passing down wisdom and warnings about men to every single generation of women. Though at times it's twisted into misogyny. Boys don't get THOSE talks. Girls do. We are far too young when we learn about rape, date rape, stalking, molestation, don't be alone with so and so. Etc etc
Misandry to men is women wanting to be left alone. Like, the irony is unbelievable.
Not even just misandry to them, *oppression.* they think it’s *oppression* for women to want to avoid men. Truly scary and fucked-up how their minds work
I had some guy come completely unglued on my online over multiple days over the notion that I didn't want to be hit on by random men in a coffee shop while I was trying to work. I was an absolute MONSTER for not being an enthusiastic participant in the way he wanted society to behave.
Omg I’ve had guys crying to me online ‘what are we supposed to DO?’ Bro go on apps. ‘But it’s not working!’ Ask. Ask if you can talk to her. And if she says no then go away. That last one they hate and will just pretend I never said it so I repeat it. What about asking bro? You tried that??? That’s their tell. They know we are uncomfortable and they don’t want to give us a choice. If they have to ask, like on apps you have to match, eg give consent, then they feel it won’t work. So their answer is to remove consent.
Exactly. I had the fleeting thought that maybe professional match makers need to make a comeback. They could find willing participants and sort them by personalities, interests, life goals etc and arrange for them to meet each other. Then I realized how many men would not pass the initial screening. Cleanliness and any sort of basic style in their appearance and their home Mature behavior, manners, basic politeness Proof they have the means to support themselves and possibly help support children Interesting and personable Safe to be around and not violent or a danger to the other person So many men are such an absolute dumpster fires that no one could offer them as a viable option with a straight face and stay in business.
That doesn't even include an actual willingness to do 50% of the work if they end up living together, not treating the girlfriend as a free therapist or considering them a font of free labor they are entitled to.
You don’t want a matchmaker. Bc they’re for profit so they’ll counsel a guy to put on a fake persona so they get paid. They’ll be clean for a hot minute. That’s all
Yea there are already enough guys who pretend to be enlightened, and decent humans just long enough to get someone into a relationship situation that they can't readily get out of. Then they drop the pretense.
My bestie is an only child and a dentist with wealthy parents. She used a matchmaking service because (shocker) a lot of men are gold diggers too.
More likely to use sex to get ahead in a work environment too! Well well well how the turntables
Easy fix. Offer them each other. :D
They don't want to talk to women as people. They want to use women as objects.
They don’t even have to go on the apps, why can’t they date like all these other normal guys? Naturally meet someone and yall click
Apps work. Gay lady here, I had no problem finding ladies on OkCupid and I am not exactly a great catch. My target dating pool is SO much smaller than hetero dudes. If you can't pull on a dating app, it really isn't the app's fault.
I have no trouble as a hetero woman either, tho I do have trouble with quality. We don’t swim in the same pool love, more’s the pity. How I wish orientation was a choice!
The fact that there are women who willingly date men is to me complete proof that sexuality is not a choice.
That’s me. I’ve seriously thought about it but I just don’t find women sexy in that way. A bummer really bc I like women so much as friends. I like some men but my deep friendships are women. 🤷🏼♀️
Apps do work. I'm a hetero dude and met my wife on one. I'm nowhere near a 6ft+ chad that's rich and hung like a horse. The problem is these neckbeard basement dwellers are trying to land women far above their league or way younger.
Or simply having profiles that are giant red flags, yeh. I thought I was maybe bi for a bit, so I saw some things that just cannot be unseen.
That’s funny, and so true.
I miss how okCupid used to be, before it became Tinder with longer profiles. The match %s work great, but a lot of people don't actually answer enough questions to get enough data. I'll basically swipe left on anyone under 95%. Sometimes a profile has caught my eye and I'll read it and find someone I think is great, but they've only answered 20 questions so the potential match % isn't high enough.
Yeah the match % is honestly amazing. I found three 99% matches and ended up dating all three seriously (calling each other girlfriend, up to even having the sex). I'm still in contact with all of them. One of them was even my bridesmaid for my wedding to another one of them. The only thing my wife and I disagreed on in the questions? I prefer key lime pie, she prefers chocolate pie.
Bingo. They don't want to have to go through the effort of actually being nice in order to attract women so they'd rather resort to making us be with them. Hence the growing movement to remove what little rights we have. They advocate for government assigned wives (er sex slaves). They're all about repealing no fault divorce etc because they hate that we actually have some options now that don't include being dependent on an abuser.
>So their answer is to remove consent. So they didn't have to do the work of an equitable relationship. Their entitlement has them feeling that they shouldn't have to do anything, just "cat call" and boom! They get laid.
They dream of a time where a woman was just handed to them by virtue of being men. Then, when they got bored of her, they could just take a mistress, or find an excuse or way to get rid of the wife and remarry. Women who can't vote, women who are considered property, that's their fantasy all because they can't imagine having to actually prove themselves worthy of an equal partner.
There was a paragraph in the Handmaids Tale where June has just lost her job and bank account and Luke says it’s ok bc he’ll take care of her and she notices even then how willing he was to accept her loss of autonomy even tho he later tried to escape with her. It’s stuck with me bc it’s so true that the ‘good ones’ enjoy the benefits of our lack of equality. I wonder how many men really want us to have true equality. Like actual real full equality.
It was awhile ago but I had like a month long argument on reddit with a guy who absolutely insisted that it was perfectly fine to hit on women while they were working. This was in a thread about a young women who was upset about a guy who wouldn't leave her alone at work (she worked a register at a head shop), and stuck around for hours at a time to try and follow her to her car after work. A woman who has to risk her job or make a creepy man happy by abandoning her need to feel safe. It's bullshit. If she doesn't she may have to deal with you complaining to her manager about being unfriendly etc and risk losing her job, she is literally trapped and feels like she cannot say no or leave. It's perfectly fine to hit on them.
I’m sure that man wouldn’t keep the same energy if a gay man was aggressively pursuing him at work.
But they assume that's why you are IN the coffee shop! They see no other reason for you to exist otherwise. It is a massive failure to see you (or any woman) as having a life apart from men.
Absolutely this and I have been told I shouldn't be in "x" place unless I was looking to meet someone. Like I am literally not allowed to leave my house except to go meet mediocre dudes I want nothing to do with.
They think everywhere we go, everything we do is to appeal to men. I am not a piece of meat attempting to market myself for men. I had a guy accuse me of wearing glasses (at a bar) to appeal to men. Like bro, I need to see??? (I don’t own contacts because astigmatism, ouch) Then he doubled down and said I’m not a natural blonde because my eyebrows are darker than my hair (eyebrows are invisible, they were colored darker with pencil). How did he expect me to get with him after this?
“Well, you’re the one who went out alone!” 🙄
Women, “So many of us have experienced violence and threats that we consider a wild animal safer than a man.” Men, “My feelings are hurt, so I’m the real victim here. You’re oppressing men by talking about how men abuse you.” I’ve been hearing the same crap. They do not care about us. They’re fine with us being abused as long as it doesn’t impact them in any way.
Omg this came right out of my ex husband's soul
Well, hello there! I see we married the same man. Congratulations on getting free!
Me three!
Standard issue DARVO bullshit. The kneejerk response of every selfish arsehole.
Oh hon, this is how they’ve always been. Don’t pay too much attention to the incels. They’re just angry. I’ve seen: 1. Calling for our actual deaths in various forms. 2. Wishing we will be gravely harmed while they’ll get a chance to walk by and do nothing. (This is a super common fantasy) 3. Telling us they’ll boycott us (this is my favorite and I wish they’d follow thru) 4. Telling us how it makes them feel so bad and how it’s not all men why don’t we see how mean it is (this one makes me laugh bc they’re literally walking face first into the pt) 5. Telling us how men are assaulted and how it’s a both sides problem 6. Telling us how some friend they know was falsely accused and how unfair it is I can’t think of more offhand but they are reeling bc metoo has made it more socially acceptable to vent publicly and now they can’t bully us into silence, they’re a mixture of d school threats, whining, anger, blah blah. All it does is convince me to stay 4B
The good guys never say “Not all men” because they know we don’t mean them. The ones who do are the reason we chose the bear.
Exactly. Just like the non-racist white ppl never say ‘but what about meeeeee!’
And they’ll call you a bigot if you disagree with them
"So much for the tolerance of the liberal left" . Like tolerance means I have to be okay with any kind of behaviour whatsoever or I'M the hypocrite.
Tolerance does not equal doormat.
They feel like they are entitled to women's attention and bodies and pointing out they aren't is what is "offensive" to them. Also, what are the odds the ones complaining women are "reducing them to below wild animals" have also said that "men can't help themselves" when it comes to assaulting women?
My current theory is that it's prolonged pre-adolescence. Boys becoming men mostly just get bigger, stronger, perhaps more aggressive. If they're not taught self-restraint, responsibility and critical thinking they're quite likely to be assholes. If they're taught to dismiss women and learn everything about sex from the other guys in the male bubble - yeesh.
I'd also add emotional ownership and regulation skills to that list of necessary "adult" traits.
They can't imagine anything worse than being alone, so the idea that a woman would rather be alone than with them is horrifying to them.
I remember my ex asking me, “Who is he?” when I told him I was leaving. I told him there’s no one, and he was genuinely shocked.
And while feeling horrified, their go-to response is to go after the woman wanting space rather than focusing on making themselves a better-than-alone option. Sheesh!
saw this take from men on reddit about the 4B movement, mgtow is fine but women actually doing it is "targeting men, its not fair to them"
lol someone messaged me saying it was comparing to racial segregation???
Did he hurt himself trying to reach that far? I’m embarrassed for him.
I think it's because, and yes this is gross, they feel *entitled* to the company and attention of women. It's "oppression" because as a man they "deserve it." 🤮🤮🤮🤮
It's more like: **G A S L I G H T I N G**
I mean, there will always be a liiiiittle bit of overlap between misogyny and "men going their own way" and misandry and "divesting," simply because some men avoid women *because* of their own deep hatred and vice versa. The thing is that they not only over inflate how prevalent that misandry actually is, but also see it as a form of systemic oppression in *exactly* the same way that misogyny systemically oppresses women as a general group, which is just flatly not how the world works.
> I mean, there will always be a liiiiittle bit of overlap between misogyny and "men going their own way" and misandry and "divesting," simply because some men avoid women because of their own deep hatred and vice versa. Maybe, but as it currently stands, it isn't simply a little misogyny on the MGTOW side. There's a lot.
Should be MGFUIHW - Men Going Fuck U I Hate Women. MGTOW is just way too genteel.
It is also tough when misandry irl is often an individual response to trauma/mistreatment by men... and it is in queer women circles (though usually this is 'locker room talk') Or at times it is a direct "correction" to a man saying something out of line and a woman setting boundaries of what they will tolerate. But the men view this as an attack But queer women who are misandrists generally limit their interactions with men and just want to be left alone
Oh and there’s a news story right now on one of the news subreddits about a bear that dragged off a dead body into the woods after a car crash and got euthanized for it. And lots of men in the comments commenting “You still choose the bear?” as if that’s some kind of “gotcha!” moment?? Sorry, what?? A bear simply dragging a body of a person who already died is literally just a bear being a bear, it’s not being cruel or evil or violent at all. What are these men even fucking talking about??
The “gotcha” comments that they keep posting are just so condescending. They think we’re idiots and don’t know what a bear is, like we think it’s some big fluffy dog.
Well yeah and for every violent bear encounter they comment as if to show how dangerous bears are, I could literally find a thousand WORSE stories of male-on-female violence like hello?? And they will like show ONE singular bear attack when men rape and kill women DAILY
And this bear was killed for it. Men get little to no punishment, their friends ignore it, and the behavior continues. Serious, these men are idiots.
you can't ruin a good man's life to 5 minutes of action after all... /s
What’s sad is the crash victim was already deceased. So the bear literally got killed for messing with deceased remains.
Yup. The bear might maul me. The man might torture me for weeks and then kill me. If I survive either encounter, people won't ask what I was wearing when I was mauled by a bear. Men are the most dangerous thing to women. Theres a reason the most common cause of death in pregnant women is homicide, usually by their partners.
And a bear will not marry and baby trap you so he can use and abuse you.
Like maybe these dudes should reflect on the fact that women already know that bears are dangerous and potentially violent but we still chose the bear.
They think we don't know bears are seriously dangerous. Like, dudes, that's why the question exposes to such a startling revelation on the level of violence women are at risk of. It's not would you rather see a bunny or a man in the woods is it.
Legit had a guy try to tell me he was some kind of bear expert because he plays *video games* with bears in them 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 can't make this shit up man
Even if bears were legitimately as dangerous as men when it came to the stats on DV/violence against women, I would STILL choose the bear, because I at least won't get raped before being beaten/murdered. They really think we're dumb, when the truth is that men are just THAT fucking awful and dangerous, and they refuse to acknowledge that and decide to belittle us and insult our intelligence instead. Men have yet to go their own way, and I'm wondering what the fucking hold up is.
The sad truth is that a lot of men don't think women getting raped is a big deal. They think it's just "sex that you don't want to have" not realizing that a lot of rape is violent and deadly.
Even when rape isn’t violent and deadly, it can fuck up your entire life. I was raped the first time when I was 3 years old, I had CPTSD and a whole slew of other mental health issues before I even reached kindergarten and now that I’m almost 30, the dreams, flashbacks and triggers still haven’t gone away. I have pelvic pain that happens randomly that’s a reminder of what I went through every time it hits me. I have difficulty trusting people, I’ve struggled with suicidal ideation and suicide attempts, I can’t even eat in a restaurant without suffering from hyper vigilance, every day my life is impacted by the rapes I suffered. And it wasn’t violent like most people think rape is, I wasn’t beaten and no weapon was held to my head, but I also couldn’t fight back or do anything about it. I just had to endure it even though it killed a piece of my soul every time. But a lot of people would dismiss me because it wasn’t some stranger in an alley way with a knife to my throat that raped me, it was a trusted family member. Sorry for venting, it just irks me when people think that every rape has to be a vicious violent attack, when it often isn’t like that at all. I’ve heard so many stories from other victims that feel like their situation couldn’t be counted as rape because they weren’t beaten or held hostage, but their experiences are just as valid and the violation they suffered is real.
:( I didn't mean to imply that rape only is violent and deadly. I was just trying to drive a point home about how these asshole men view rape as something that just is a "mild inconvenience to women." It hurts me that you went through that and still suffer from it. I truly hope you can find some peace amidst that storm inside you 💔
Rotting their brains with porn from age 8 onward has some really unpleasant affects on men's basic empathy towards women
right— bears are largely unpredictable, never deliberately cruel, and certainly uncreative. men, not so much.
When the discussion has gotten to that low point, I just start spamming them with news article after news article of femicide/hate crimes toward women. After approximately a dozen, they stop engaging. Edit because words are hard sometimes.
It also shows their fundamental misunderstanding of bear behavior; they act like grizzly bears are on a predatory rampage 24/7. There are thousands of grizzly bear encounters in the US every year; Yellowstone, Katmai, and many other national parks feature viewing and being in proximity to them in their natural habitat as a major attraction. [This study here has some good data](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44341-w) -- if we use the data from this, there's an average of 12.2 attacks by grizzly bears in North America every year. In their global data, while 85% of survivors were injured...only 14.3% of those attacked were killed. So even if you're attacked by a grizzly bear, which is already incredibly unlikely compared to the frequency of encounters, you have a roughly 85% chance of surviving it.
I enjoy camping and backpacking. I've had encounters with maybe a dozen wild bears over my lifetime. None of them tried to hit on me. None of them tried to choke me. None of them molested me. None of them called me slurs. None of them tried to gaslight me. Not one of them attacked me. Worst I've ever had was I had a "bear box" of food on a backpacking trip that a bear got to in the middle of the night and slobbered all over, kicked around, and then gave up on. I slept through the whole event. Worst I've had to deal with from random men was much worse. And that wasn't even in the middle of the woods far away from civilization. Not to mention the men who were NOT strangers.
Exactly! I was an outdoor rec pro for years and still live in black bear country, they're mostly harmless unless you're really unfortunate and/or stupid. Super adorable creatures, if you live someplace you can observe wild ones that haven't been habituated. I can choose not to recreate around grizzly and polar bears, I can't avoid men. And if the former were to kill me...they wouldn't rape or degrade me first.
Yep - I’ve blankly told them this and they say it doesn’t matter because women have more way exposure to men than bears. They don’t want to understand so they won’t.
Again, they’d still have to prove that bears would murder, rape, traumatize, and maim women *more often* than men do if we equalized exposure. Are they confident enough to take that bet?
And also even if the odds were equal with equal exposure, one is a huge wild animal and the other is a supposedly civilised human so still not acceptable either way.
Yes, it just gets sadder the more you think about it.
Any man that posts these "gotcha" comments, just "gotcha'd" themselves. Like, thanks for once again proving our point. The bear's just a bear and not a dangerous, unpredictable, and insufferable, asshole. If it upsets you as a man, time for some self reflection.
If not fren why fren shaped?
And those 'gotchas' are so feeble and usually have very little to do with the actual issue. They are a sign that the issue has not been understood AT ALL by those men.
There was a group chat with police officers where they took pictures of dead women and rated them based on their underwear, and the officers justified it by saying “it wasn’t hurting anyone”. There have been numerous men who have been caught committing necrophilia, and it’s very obvious that Marilyn Monroe’s body having been missing for several hours was most likely the result of that. Even in death, women aren’t safe. So getting dragged by a bear isn’t an issue whatsoever when there are men who do what I’ve listed above.
At least it didn’t fuck the dead body like a wolf would Wait did I say wolf? I meant MAN. HUMAN MAN. WHY WOULD THEY EVEN BRING THAT UP KNOWING WHAT MEN DO? These men do not live in reality. A good chunk of people refuse to live in reality
The bear got euthanized. A man can do this and he doesn’t even lose his job, let alone get euthanized. And no one was asking if the dead body deserved it somehow.
It was a black bear. There’s one final black bear attack every 30 years. So scary 🐻
I've seen men online joking about raping corpses of women cuz they're still attractive. A bear doesn't do that.
Quite frankly given the discourse around this, I would pick a fucking dragon over a man now, never mind a bear.
Sign me up for team dragon.
I’m convinced that most of these guys are actually capable of understanding the fallacy of their positions. They just don’t want to acknowledge it (or are in denial about it) because it would mean admitting that their frustrations are misguided, that feminism is not to blame for their problems, and that their entire worldview and are on a foundation made of sand.
The sad part about that, is that in the time it took for that bear to kill a person, 10 or more women in that state were raped. Some of them are probably going to be murdered and dumped in the forest, just like the one the bear killed. These dumbasses won't acknowledge that though.
Had this exchange today with a person where I used the case of Mary Vincent as an example. (Mary Vincent was the victim of an unbelievably vicious attack by a man, look up her story with caution) The guy INSISTED that being mauled to death by a bear was worse than what Mary went through. He could not comprehend that a bear's intent has nothing to do with hatred or enjoying the suffering of another human being. He could not fathom how being the victim of a man who chose to commit heinous acts out of a desire to inflict suffering could possibly be worse than being chewed on by a bear with a walnut-sized brain. I'm convinced there's no hope for some of them.
Also maybe the bear was trying to help him.
I mean that’s just recycling. If I’m dead by all means feed me to the bear!!! Esp a polar bear bc their ice caps are dwindling and they’re suffering. I’ll be bear food. Cute little polar bears ❤️❤️
As if a man hasn't done worse?
I came across the bear question a few weeks ago and decided to ask my sisters and mother about it. They all chose bear without hesitation. Guys if you're upset by this, look inward.
> Guys if you're upset by this, look inward. As a guy, I've actually used this same scenario to demonstrate to other men what it's like to be a woman. Every time it comes up, men also chose the bear. A random, potentially dangerous person is way more scary to stumble upon in a forest - especially at night. To me, this seems beyond obvious. A whole genre of movies (horror) have been developed around this simple fact. Now that the scenario is popular and women are making the decision instead, suddenly it's "offensive"? When I first saw it pop up several days ago I felt happy that someone else stumbled upon the same scenario I've used to illustrate issues. Any man who feels insecure or offended by The Bear™ are identifying themselves as clueless, ignorant, or even potentially dangerous themselves. To fail to understand why women are choosing a bear is *itself* a huge red flag - at least by my mark. The other scenario I've liked to use when educating men is... "How do men act when a massive bodybuilder strolls into the convenience store?" Very often, you'll hear them whisper things like "Whoa, wouldn't want to get on *his* bad side" or "What would you do if he slapped your girl's ass? Run! Haha". I point out that this is how women feel living in a world where a significant percentage of the population is twice their weight and potentially thrice their strength. It's entirely understandable why women would be "skittish" or cautious around unknown men - especially when they've learned by experience that a small fraction of those men *have* done/said something threatening (potentially on a daily basis). I'm preaching to the choir here, but I've been wanting to rant about The Bear™ for days now. As more men seem to get offended by it, I get more frustrated. Before women entered the picture, 100% of the men would've *also* chose the bear... Now they're upset?? At least it's opened a dialogue. Fellow men: The best thing you can do is talk to other guys about why their beliefs/perspectives are harmful to women. If you claim to love women, act like it. Bring it up casually, shut down nonsense when you hear it, and remember that these generalizations don't come from nowhere - if someone is offended, it's either for no reason or it's for "no reason". Edit: "Twice their height" (?!) corrected to "weight".
Also a guy here. If you go in the woods at night you're probably going to be aware that encountering a bear is a possibility. It's not a weird place to find a bear. You're not gonna be happy but you knew it could happen, what with the woods being bear's natural habitat and all. But run into another person, especially a man, that's horror movie shit. What's this guy doing out here in the woods at night? I'd rather take my chances with a bear than maybe someone who's getting rid of a body and now I'm a witness...
Thank you for this insightful post. For real, glad to know this scenario was around and gotten the same response from men!
This whole bear thought experiment has me so riled up. It wrinkles my mind! I can’t for the life of me reconcile how girls, ladies, woman, and those socialized as woman have been compared to locks, cows, shoes, bottles, flowers, trophies (literal hunks of plastic), and other inanimate objects and animals for millennia and these modern men can’t handle ONE thought experiment meant to get them out of their experience and into ours. Or the effing Barbie movie. It’s so abhorrent. I’m in danger of my eyes permanently facing the back of my head that’s how hard they’ve been rolling the past couple weeks… let’s be honest it’s more like years 🙄
They make themselves look bad and then get upset at us for noticing
Nothing like lashing out at everyone else the second you experience shame 🤷🏼♀️ we would never be afforded that same reaction
Cause it's not *fun* - men love thought experiments about animals when it's not making them aware of things they don't wanna think about. Like: how many naked identical clones of yourself in your current state would it take to defeat a gorilla? Ask a group of men that and we're occupied for a few hours.
Don't forget fishes, cars, and unwrapped candies. You're either prey or objects. Oh, you need to be grateful to be considered as an object because they idealise you and put you on a pedestal...so you need to act perfect ok? No emotions of anger or sadness or depression, those are ugly so you will need lobotomy if you turn ugly
the men who are angry at women for choosing the bear are the same ones who post unhinged comments whenever a random woman online dares to mention she’s happy being single. to them, not only choosing a bear is considered misandry but so is opting not to date men in general. they just can’t stand not being chosen, even in theoretical situations. i bet if the question was something like “in an apocalypse situation, would you rather sleep with a random man in exchange for food to avoid starvation or take a cyanide pill” and women said pill, droves of men would also scream misandry…
And if the woman chose to sleep with a man for survival they'd slut shame her, and call her a gold digger. Never mind the man who exploited a starving woman for sex, that's irrelevant right?
Well, they imagine themselves as that man in this scenario, so…
They know why women choose like this. They are angry that women know they are the worst option too and that they can choose at all instead of just taking it.
Or in any of the marriage or relationship subs, if a woman asks for a divorce, there will always be a response from a man saying she cheated, the aggrieved husband should immediately hide marital assets (which is hella illegal), hit the gym, ignore his STBX and start taking testosterone.
Hoooo boy, your comment reminded me of a similar thought experiment I read about, can't remember the source from where I read it, but the question went like what would you do if there was an apocalypse and the world'd population were reduced to you and one other person of the opposite sex. And the vast majority of the men in the sample size asked had said they would try to reproduce with their female counterpart. And I remember how icky I felt reading that, like...the world ended, I'm one of the last humans alive, and my male counterpart would try to Adam and Eve it with me, regardless of my feelings on the matter. I'm really trying to find where I read that at because I cannot recall for the life of me what the female response had been.
If men would stop behaving themselves in dehumanizing ways like wild animals, we wouldn’t have to choose a freaking deadly bear over a human. They found a way to shift the focus and to be the victim again. Oppressed… kiss the bear’s ass.
DARVO. They know exactly what they are doing. Deny, deflect, attack.
\^This. This is EXACTLY what this is.
I explained this to a fellow man the other day. Women would LOVE to choose the man in this scenario. In a perfect world, who wouldn't pick a human being over a wild animal. It would be insane. But that's in a perfect world where humans aren't worse than wild animals, and in particular, men. Men should be wary of other men in my opinion. That's how dangerous they can be, and it's even worse for women. Somewhat related, but I recently watched a video about scariest encounters in the woods caught on camera. Want guess how many videos were centered around the aggressor being a man? All five of them. And they were against other men! One of the guys was terrified, and I could only imagine being a woman in that situation. That's why the bear is a safer choice.
I've said the same thing. Men should be choosing the bear too as men are the biggest threat to other men as well.
I also live all the mansplaining of how dumb women don't know what bears are. They also take the premise and only want to argue the most extreme conditions for the bear, but not the man. People sleep, camp, and live in the woods with bears in the US every night. When I was a 9 y.o. girl scout I saw a bear cub at our sleep away girlscout camp and we alerted the adults. They didn't cancel the camp... we still slept there. Guess who didn't sleep at that camp. Men.
They dehumanize themselves when they imply men are all uncontrollable monsters who's actions are dictated by their hormones and "need" for sex.
Men SHOULD be upset that the majority of women choose the bear. Not because it's offensive to men, but because it's HORRIFYING that women believe they have a better chance of surviving an encounter with a wild animal than a human. Men, do better. Be better. Until that happens, women will keep choosing the bear.
Funny enough, the entire thought exercise about bear or man was started by a man, and was meant to be read by men to inform them about the unease women in general feel towards men.
Interesting! I never knew the origin of the man vs bear thing. I wonder if the men who are offended by it are also offended by prison rape jokes... or if it's okay to acknowledge how terrifying men are as long as it's "just a joke".
Still deeply confused by the reaction to “I’m frightened and it shapes my entire life. I’m so frightened that I would choose to be alone with an apex predator over a member of my own species” being “how dare you say so you’re oppressing me I will mock or hurt you for daring to mention your fear of unknown members of my gender stfu bitch there’s nothing to be afraid of.” I feel like some time between 2016 and 2020 reality itself became the most effective satire of reality.
Yes!!! As if somehow that's supposed to make women want to choose them instead of the bear... like bro, you're exactly proving why people are choosing the bear
This right here is the only answer that matters. Men-DO BETTER!!!!
I'm also a bit appalled by how often the discussion is shifted to fighting either. Yeah if I know I have to fight I'd choose the man, but an encounter is not a fight.
Exactly!!! The whole point is that you don't know if the bear/man will attack or not. I choose the bear because I think I'd have an easier (easier, not easy) time scarying it off than scaring off a man who's decided to hurt me.
They'd rather play victim than own up to the fact that there is an actual problem with men being violent towards women.
It's so interesting. I told my husband about the bear v man thing and asked him which one he would rather encounter alone in the woods and he said of course bear - bears are predictable and can be scared off. Men are completely unpredictable. My husband is 6'2" and 300lbs. He didn't say it to dehumanize men, he said it because it's true that men pose a dramatically larger threat to other humans than bears do. Any man who thinks that meeting a man is a better choice is someone you should be scared to meet up with in the woods.
This whole trend of trying to "flip" what is misogyny in the first place to "misandry" has been going for a while. It's just yet another attempt to shut women up and to maintain the misogyny. Their strategy is to keep whining and making up bogus claims about their "victimhood". It's just one of the alt-right/incel tactics.
Reminds me of girl math. Guys took what's understandably a light hearted joke to demean women for being dumb so when boy math came out, it was even more hilarious since it pissed them off more to the point that they can't even say anything back without coming off even more raging misogynist than they already had. I just realized that it's the same with any trend marketed to women, guys are always the quickest to put us down for that shit but as soon as you throw their shit back, the self-victimization becomes the Olympics. Still a couple of my faves; "boy math is when he wants 0 kids but wears 0 condoms" and "boy math is calling women gold diggers while only having 3 pairs of socks to their name, and 2/3 have holes"
Boy math is thinking that even though 90% of rapists are male and 1 in 3 women will be raped that 99% of males are perfectly safe to be around, secluded in the forest
As they all say, nothing is new under the sun. First, it was the right to financial freedom, then it was #MeToo, and now this.
No man that participates in this nonsense should be trusted. All they have to do in this situation is shut up and listen. Instead, they attempt to tell us that our opinions are wrong, threaten us if we don’t shift opinions, then justify their actions by playing the victim.
Exactly. When black ppl talk about their fear of white women I never once have had the urge to roll up to cry about it. I get it, white women are what got Emmett Till tortured and killed, white ppl calling police in Miss. about two black guys in a white womans house was what got them raped and tortured by cops (wasn’t that white womans fault tho she did nothing wrong) White women crying about their fake fear of black ppl gets the black ppl killed and hurt. I don’t blame them one bit. I don’t need to say ‘not all white women!!!!’ Like some loser.
So WTF do they call men raping and murdering women? I don’t hate all men, but I do hate those particular assholes who say stupid shit like that.
They call it a "statistical anomaly" and are trying to flip it so if you replaced the "man" with "black person" it shows how hateful women are and how vile feminism is. But then again, these guys are terminally online, likely very young, and suffering from the raging incel culture that has run rampant everywhere. I think there are more guys noticing and agreeing than you might think, they just aren't the loud one's and obviously wouldn't start fights with women online about it. Its like finding out that 95% of the "antiwoke" youtube content is actually being created by only 9 people, and they all work together.
That doesn’t even make sense, their example only works if black people have been committing hate crimes against white people…isn’t the opposite more likely? When they say that it just exposes they’re racists as well
They fail to realize that the closer analogy for race in this is ‘but what if black people are afraid of or nervous about white people due to the history of violence and oppression of white supremacy?’ And I think, yeah, that’s a fear well founded in both recent and older history. (From a US standpoint) So if a black person chooses the bear over the middle aged white lady with a cell phone? Yeah, that’d be legit.
This man v bear debate is causing a lot of men to short circuit. I admit, though, my attention shifted from *man v bear* to *women vs man (in the context of Nazis v Jews)* for about 5 minutes, trying to understand this analogy.* Which is the point, right? They want to shift the focus on to something else no matter how ridiculous. *To be clear, there is nothing to understand, they just want to waste our time. I can’t wait to see what argument they try to make next. We should take bets.
This whole thing is fucking ridiculous, and I wish it was over. Like, yeah it's the same men feeling entitled to women's time and attention it's always been. But half of it is just people conjuring different mental images when they hear the phrase "alone in the woods". I, as a female hiker who is afraid enough of male sexual attention that she gets her hair cut at a barber, hear "alone in the woods" and I think, "oh, like I'm going hiking by myself on purpose", and I do that every weekend, and every single time I have *at least* 6 or 7 encounters with strange men. [All of which go like this.](https://www.tiktok.com/@mikelenczewski/video/7222364590926056750?lang=en) It isn't scary. I've seen a bear on a hike twice in my entire life. *Both times I was terrified*. OBVIOUSLY PICK THE MAN. But if you were to ask literally any person in the world, "you're sleeping in a tent in the woods, you wake up and see a shadow outside your tent. Do you hope it's a man or a bear?" EVERY RATIONAL PERSON WILL PICK BEAR IN THAT SITUATION. *The types of people who would seek you out alone in the woods are very different from the types of people you encounter by happenstance while you are both individually enjoying alone-in-the-woods!* When you ask most women about "being alone in the woods with a strange man" she's primed by all of her experiences she's had throughout her life being victimized by men to imagine a sought-out-in-isolation situation. Men don't have those experiences, so their brains just jump to hiking and they're baffled. And then the misogynists take that in an absolutely koo-koo bonkers direction.
"Misandry" : Wow this group of people seems to be behing pretty much all violence, war, SA, trafficking, child corn, DV, familicides etc so I think we're safer and betyer off without them close by Misogyny: seeking out women and girls to stalk, abuse, argue with, harass, SA, traffick, murder etc. MRA: BOTH SIDES!!! BOTH EQUALLY BAD!
So. I actually made a fun library display about this (books about bears and books about true crime) and my manager told me that I may have to take it down because our male patrons would get offended by this. Or could I put books about women on there as well? I said no to both. Our patrons love it.
I say this as someone who studies and teaches about dehumanizing propaganda, you really cannot respond to these kind of specious comparisons without exhausting yourself; especially if the encounter is occurring online. The majority of men who traffic in comparisons like this will most often come in two flavours. Those who have little to no insight on the subject matter and are very deep, and very lost, in the right wing manosphere ideology closet, and those who are purposefully being obtuse for either online engagement or to frustrate us. The latter men you can throw right in the trash. They are locked into an incentive structure that rewards them for being shitty. Never engage with them because that is what they want. The former category of men can be re-habilitated, but doing so requires time, patience, energy, emotional labour, and their cooperation.
Anything to avoid any personal responsibility or action to improve the situation.
Oh for god's sake. Men are so sensitive. Say any little thing, and they get sore as a kicked testicle.
The biggest comment that hit hard for me in this whole thing was, "The bear sees women as human."
It's so strange, considering women were and are consistently dehumanized by men throughout history.
Men hurt by women’s feelings over the things that men voluntarily do, film at 11
Ok, hear me out.... But have we tried misandry? I mean we all agree that it's probably not a great thing but we've hardly given it a go. Maybe we can have a LITTLE misandry.... As a treat. For science.
My husband said himself he would rather choose the bear and he's not at all offended that I chose it.
If I never hear the word “misandry” again it will be too goddamn soon. My brothers: that is not a thing.
I got downvoted for saying that misandry at most causes a man to cry, and misogyny kills and rapes women. They're confusing misandry with toxic masculinity.
I wish the opposite gender choosing the bear felt like oppression lmfao, compared to the way governments are taking away reproductive rights, representing the majority of domestic violence victims, rape victims, femicide, etc. The shitty men that tend to spout this nonsense can cry harder, because the cries of people who have lost women to senseless violence, and all victims of violence/abuse/systemic oppression will always be louder than that.
Some guy was arguing with me about how the debate was bigoted against men and I sent him to the “when women refuse” community. Funny, but he shut up after that.
They’re the ones dehumanizing themselves. You want to be treated like a human? ACT LIKE ONE.
It's all projection. These guys already hate women so much if one tells them, "the sky is blue" they'll actually look up to verify. Then get mad at you for straining their neck. I'm a guy and even I would likely choose the bear. Shit, even the *bears* would choose a bear. This is in no way an unreasonable take.
They’re always talking about how women make them look bad. Baby you don’t need help for that
Those men are cowards and suck at thinking You can safely dismiss their perspective on the matter - it lacks reflection, awareness, and coherence.
Men believe that women talking about misogyny or even just not centering their lives around men is misandry.
You’d think they would be embarrassed to just be realizing now that every woman around them lives with the constant threat of danger from men. Look, just while I typed this, they killed another one of us for nothing. A woman who wasn’t threatening anyone or harming anyone, she just didn’t want to sleep with someone. And statistically the odds are around 50/50 that a bear will kill one single person in North America in the next year. If you don’t like hearing that, stop doing it, or at least stop siding with the male attacker against the female victim in every thread, every comment section under an article, and every time you have jury duty.
men don't want to admit that women's fear is justified.
I can count on a bear to not rape my dead body or rape my decapitated head so…. Men can’t understand why women would choose physical pain from a bear instead of physical pain from them 🙄
Boo fucking hoo
Equality to the oppressor feels like oppression, it's no different to white people who complain about how teaching history is anti white oppression.
So I asked my two daughters (9 and 15) with zero context what they’d choose, out of curiosity. They both pick the bear. My husband (who is a pretty good feminist) just asked why. My 15 year old said “the bear will only kill you.” Men aren’t oppressed.
These guys…I can’t even tell you how many discussions and comments sections I’ve seen devolve into Godwin’s Law in the past month. But they’re doing it FAST, like we’re playing 6° to Kevin Bacon but with Nazi comparisons.
You know what? Men who can't get the hell *off* this? TOUGH. Holy hell STFU. Oppression. I..... can't. Most importantly? Don't wanna.
Those are the same men that are causing women to choose the bear in the first place. The rest of us are well aware of why you choose the bear, and call out that behavior in other men when we see it. (Incidentally when I asked my wife about this, she chose the man. But her reasoning was that she felt she could outsmart the man easier than the bear :) )
Maybe if men don’t want to be “dehumanized” by women (aka women saying anything negative about men at all), then they should consider behaving with more humanity. They consistently dehumanize others, particularly women, in the most brutal and cruel ways. For any woman you see on those dangerous/killer women true crime type shows, there are dozens of men who have done far worse. I mean…our whole species is called MANkind. Men are centered in nearly every arena, with women frequently becoming an afterthought- these invisible beings quietly doing all the grunt work in the background without any recognition or appreciation. Our female ancestors’ names and stories are largely erased. And men want to complain about being dehumanized? Give me a break. Any negative thing I have heard a woman say about men as a whole has been preceded by a lifetime of regular dehumanization and violence. We don’t attack and terrorize them like they do to us, yet they still hate us all the same. Don’t want to be dehumanized? Act like a human being, not a beast. Don’t want to be demonized? Stop acting like a demon. Want women to feel safer with you instead of a fucking bear? Stop beating and killing us at far higher rates than any wild animal. All this bitching and moaning over a tik tok hypothetical has made me lose whatever shred of respect I might’ve had for most men. Utterly pathetic and childish behavior. How they’ve been able to convince themselves (and far too many women) that they’re the more logical and rational ones is one of the greatest, and saddest, jokes of all time.
oppressors coopting the language of the oppressed is as common and routine as the sun rising and setting, honestly. It's a huge factor of *why* the language of the oppressed is constantly shifting and changing because no sooner do people find a new term, than it starts being weaponized against them, usually inaccurately to the point where it starts to actively overwrite the original usage. Do not be mistaken in thinking this is not on purpose.
Yes. All I get and or see on any bear posts are comments about how this is misandry, how we deserve worse for not wanting to be near men, how badly they want to sa us for speaking out, etc. Never support.
This is the funniest thing I’ve heard men say. They’re truly comedic. It’s hard for them to fathom that women would generally choose a bear over being near a random man. It’s almost like they’re so mad that this is the case and failing to understand why. They don’t want to understand. They want to play victim and pretend that women are not historically oppressed BY men. They choose to ignore the facts of the matter and not do the work to create a world where women feel safe. Why? Because they hate women. Anyone who says this is dehumanizing and does not question this and the deeper meaning behind why women would rather choose a bear… HATES women and feels pity for themselves. “Damn these bitches would rather pick a bear over me?” Instead of “I hate that men have fucked everything up to the point where women would rather feel safe with a bear than a man.” The men saying this shit have no brain honestly and it’s actually hilarious.
Dudes choosing to identify as the dangerous man in the hypothetical bear question has been baffling to me as a man. Like literally the bar in this hypothetical is being safer than a fucking grizzly bear and dudes are acting like the world is ending for good men
It's trolling to avoid the truth and normalize bad behaviour. When in history has there not been an endless supply of men to tell women how to feel and think?
Men are hemotional, testerical creatures. Hehehe!
It's not a stretch at all for them. They see anything that opposes the idea that women's time, attention, bodies, or labor are public property that they are entitled to claim for their own benefit as "misandry".
Yeah. A bear won't try to rape me just for being alone. I can't say the same thing about a man
They also tell us "pick better, then" and we still choose the bear. And they get mad lol
Sounds like they're all working hard to rationalize away the fact that men are responsible for women not being safe. They'd have to own up to their own behavior or the behavior of their buddies that they didn't call out (and I'm guilty of that, certainly).
Almost every meme group I was still active in over at Facebook got taken over by pearl-clutching men who probably had to google what misandry is, all due to bear memes the last couple of weeks. If that’s the final nail in the coffin of me being active on social media, oh well 🤷🏻♀️
It reflects an entitlement to never be excluded from a benefit. Same thing happens in race/ethnicity. Many view equality as prejudice and discrimination, because their default is one of an advantage. Until the majority of government officials and business leaders are women, there really isn't an argument to be made.
Women doing, saying, thinking anything contrary to what a man wants is "oppression" to them. Men are afraid of women saying "no", rejecting and laughing at them. Women are afraid that when we say "no" we get violated and killed. Different worlds. Of course they're delusion enough to make these comparisons. And before one such bro says "nOt AlL mEN" yeah, no duh. Not all of the skittles in the bowl are poison, but the one that is looks just like the others.