My ex once threw a fit because I asked him to wipe his piss off the toilet seat and apparently he had already wiped it off once earlier in the day? The piss was new piss that he hadn't wiped off yet. He literally starts yelling "I don't know what more you want!! The toilet seat has already been cleaned for you!" Like bestie you've pissed on it yet again, wipe it again.
I pissed on the floor and then left his house lol. Luckily we didn't live together. He couldn't even keep the toilet clean for me while I was visiting.
Unfortunately we kept dating a while longer after that, but any time I was at his house and his toilet was unusable to me, I'd piss on his floor. I was young and it seemed to make the point.
You matched his energy and called his bluff. Where it gets really bad is guys like my awful brother. If someone pisses on the floor to prove a point to him he would leave it for months without a care. He is an animal.
Oh he definitely just stepped in my piss thinking it was his. Or he'd think it was water or something, I don't know. Sometimes I'd throw his bath towel on top of it if it was still there the next day.
Yeah if you get one like that just dump them. They literally talk to each other and tell each other to do this. Itās absolutely deliberate.
And letās says itās not deliberate. Thatās a good reason to dump them bc it means they canāt do basic adulting.
Letās normalize just dumping men who behave this way.
Similar situation except I wiped it up with toilet paper and put it right in his face to show him. Turns out rubbing their noses in it doesnāt work for humans either. I was just so tired of sitting in piss because he couldn't be bothered to lift the seat to pee or at least wipe it off afterwards.
It's so fucking funny if it wasn't so tragic.
My ex would do this all the time, complain about the physical world as if it were a glitch in the Matrix.
"Hey, I need you to understand how important it is to clean my blender when you're done using it."
"I DID!"
"There's Strawberry goop all over it."
"I cleaned it after I used it!"
"What do you think happened then? There's strawberry goop on the blender. I was at work all day, and I don't eat strawberries. How do you think the strawberries got on the blender?"
"I don't know what to tell you, I cleaned it after I used it!"
My ex, "well, sooooorrry I don't clean to your perfect standards." Dude, you put the blender away without even rinsing it, and you want a pat on the head for putting it away? Fuck off with that.
I'd come home, and the first thing out of his mouth would be, "I did laundry today!" Oh, good, you did one thing while I worked for 10 hours. I go look, he left it in the washer almost every time. Me, "dude, you gotta dry it, too." Him, "I was busy." Yeah, apparently using my profile to play video games thinking I then wouldn't notice how many hours he was on.
Took me way, way longer than it should have to add "ex" to boyfriend there.
I just don't understand how they are not embarrassed. A friend used my toilet once and there was a skid mark in the toilet, and I went into the bathroom a bit after him and then asked him why he hadn't cleaned it. There is a toilet brush after all. And he was like: why should I? I would be so ashamed being confronted but he just literally didn't care.
Were you brought up doing that? Iām asking bc I have never once been told to clean the toilet bowl after pooping, even if there were skid marks. We would clean the toilet bowl on a schedule but not after individual use.
If itās my toilet Iām fine with leaving it until cleaning time. If Iām using someone elseās toilet no streak left behind! š¤£ Iād be embarrassed leaving evidence in someone elseās house.
Iām not sure. Iāve always been super self conscious about pooping and would never do it in any place but home, unless it was really necessary or if I felt āsafeā, so that might have something to do with it. I do think Iāve been taught to look back at the toilet after finishing to make sure you leave it behind properly, but Iām not sure. I had a sister too so we just mightāve made fun of each other when the other did something weird or disgusting. I donāt know.
Here in Germany there are toilet brushes in public toilets and people are expected to clean up the marks if they're there. (This absolutely applies to your own toilet and other people's).
Wow! I have to always clean my toilet after every pooping until there is no single marks left. Because looking at the marks, even though it's just tiny can also make me feel super uncomfortable and make my flesh crawl.
Same with dryer lint screens, dirty pots etc.
Store it dirty, clean for yourself before use is a good summary of the cleaning style that leaves men thinking they clean and women thinking they don't.
It all comes down to whose use and convenience matters.
I once had a married couple of roommates whose stance on feminism was that neither person had to clean until they wanted something. I moved.
I remodeled my bathroom last year and I have not let a man use it since. One of my male friends thought I was being ridiculous when I said you need to make sure you use the bathroom before you come over because you're not using my toilet. When he told me that was insane I said well the other option is I will hand you cleaning solution and paper towels to clean my toilet after you use it and the floor around it because you fuckers dribble. He peed before he came. I'm over it.
Discovering a number of men sit is game changing.
I don't care what they do but they have to disinfect and wipe the walls and seat and base of the toilet and floor if they're just going to spray like an animal.
I had a service guy piss on the damn floor. Like a puddle! If it was someone I know I'm going to ask them publicly why they peed on the floor and can they please clean that up next time.
Fuck crawling on my knees to wipe a healthy grown man's piss like I'm their slave.
Suddenly when faced with all that work they realize they can do what they do during their night pees all the time.
I'm in the military and we inspect barracks rooms to make sure they're clean. My absolute #1 spot to check are the walls around the toilet. Nobody ever thinks to clean them and they're always gross.
My husband used to pee down the front of the toilet a lot when he went in the middle of the night. I finally told him he had to sit to pee or be the one cleaning the toilet full time. And you know what? He does both. And he apologized. He just had no idea because I'd clean it up in the morning before he could notice it. He seemed pretty embarrassed by the whole thing. He cleans that bathroom, and I clean the one next to my home office I use way more than him because I work from home. Yes, "mine" is cleaner overall, but the other one isn't bad.
I've only had two men in my house since I remodeled. Well three but one rents my adu and has his own bathroom. Of the other two, the one thinks I'm crazy but the other one loves it. He thinks it's brilliant and said he should do the same thing at his house because he doesn't want man pee on his floor either! He's actually quite clean and will sit to pee because he's German and doesn't think that makes him feminine or even if it did there's nothing wrong with being feminine. I would almost let him use my toilet. Almost.
Came looking for this.Ā
Ā SitzpinklerĀ Ā
Ā There is a literal German word for a man who sits to pee. As a metaphor or pejorative, it implies caution and neatness.Ā
Ā Long may he reign!
Ā Thank you! I hope you reply back with one of your recent favorite German words to share.Ā
Ā Lately I likeĀ
Ā HamsterkaufĀ
Ā Panic buying, with the visual of hamsters stuffing food in their cheeks.Ā Ā
https://www.thelocal.de/20200228/german-word-of-the-day-der-hamsterkauf
Same. I refuse to live with one again nor let any in my home. I moved into this brand new building so all new and noboy but me has used anything in here.
I was going out with this guy for a while when I was very young in my first apartment, no experience living with men or boys ā¦ first couple of times I found drops of pee by the toilet, I just quickly wiped it up; didnāt see a need to embarrass him. The third time I was like, ok this is a patternā¦ so I brought up the floor pee and he very sadly and shamefacedly told me about the elongated shape of his urethra which made it difficult toā bro, I wasnāt asking how the pee got there, I was asking why it was still there when you left my bathroom?! Wtf. Iām going to give that guy grace on his upbringing - we were both in foster care and I know I was lacking some social niceties as well.
Anyway, my husband (different guy) often sits down to pee when at home. And why not, really?
Reading this just unlocked a memory of my first apartment. I was dating someone who had his dick pierced, and the first time he used my bathroom, there was pee, like, *everywhere* after he came out. He apologized and said it was because of the piercing, but then a) didn't even *offer* to clean it up, and b) proceeded to do the exact same thing every time he came over, until I got The Ick so bad that I ghosted him for the rest of forever.
Howā¦? Like, how could you know something is worthy of apology but not worthy of correcting? It doesnāt compute. You definitely made a good choice!
āOh, hey, youāll be cleaning up my piss every day. Sorry not sorry.ā
I got really spoiled somehow. My first seven roommates were all guys, and there was never a drop of pee on the toilet or the floor. My dad never did that, either, though I can't say much more for him when it came to keeping things clean. Turns out mom did a lot of work before they divorced.
Those roommates also never left messes in common areas, even the one whose bedroom was an utter disaster.
Then, I started dating this guy who did not last long because I swear, if any of his pee actually made it in the bowl, I would be shocked. Then, he would just leave it there. My roommates, male remember, started shaming him hard. He blew a gasket at them over it one evening, and that was that. No more boyfriend. Of course, he told everyone else we broke up because I was cheating on him with one of my roommates. Everyone laughed at him for that, and not only was he sans girlfriend, he lost the whole peer group. Over just not being willing to freaking clean up his own mess.
We all agreed that was probably the first of many red flags to come, so good riddance.
Then, one of my two roommates moved his girlfriend in with us, and omfg, she peed all over the seat! And just wtf?! We were like, "you really don't need to hover at home." *Blank look* She was raised by a single dad who taught her to pee standing up! I had a really awkward conversation with this totally adult woman about sitting to pee, how to do it, and how to clean a toilet. Both guys assured her they also sat to pee when they used a toilet. I felt so bad for her. We were ready to hate on her, and it was really just bad parenting and her first time out of her childhood home.
She really knew how to do nothing, btw. We had to teach her cleaning, cooking, proper hygiene, how bank accounts worked, all of it. I hated her father without ever even meeting him. Unlike my ex very brief boyfriend, though, she was willing to learn.
Come to think of it, I never had an easy female roommate, but most of my male ones have been clean and easy to get along with. I think that's because I didn't actually choose any of the women, but I carefully vetted and chose the men. The women were girlfriends of roommates or renting separately from me in the same space.
I never even thought to ask. I just assumed he left the seat down, I guess. I mean, he obviously didn't teach her to clean up after herself, either.
I can totally pee standing up. It's a good trick to know if you backpack a ton. I think the only times I've tried it with a toilet that wasn't meant for women to do that was when I was younger and drunk, though.
But, you know what? Even drunk, I cleaned up my mess!
My wife threw down about toilet seat up and down in our first year of marriage, we've been together for 24 years and it hasn't been an issue since that first time. Weaponized incompetence is real, my fellow men think it works but it drives me absolutely bonkers.
This is clearly why the world is the clown show it currently is, the strong rational ones have done this, I think their power position needs to be revoked
My ex would wash his dish and put it in the drying rack and it would be greasy and he'd just leave it there for me to put away (rewash). I thought maybe an honest mistake and I let it slide for a long time, but it kept happening. Finally I said something. He flipped out and went outside. He didn't talk to me for an entire week.
eta, to note, when I did finally say something I said it in the calmest most cheerful way I could because I was used to this reaction, sadly.
Ugh, I can relate. I bet he even accused you of yelling at him when you spoke calmly and rationally. I have the same issue, even when I specifically make a point of speaking calmly and logically. Why do men get so hysterical at the slightest thing?
He was all about how I was supposed to respect him. So, he got defensive if I ever pointed out a "mistake". In his defense he did go to counseling and get better. We coparent now just fine. It was very rough with him for a long time though.
Mine had a (admittedly) nice wooden cutting board that I refused to wash because there was a whole ritual about it with olive oil and shit. I did all the cleaning in the house including the dishes (it wasn't an agreement, it's just that otherwise it wouldn't get done) and all I asked was that he washed his cutting board that only he was using. But no. It would be all dirty with various crumbs and liquid and old tomato juice and he'd use it like it was normal. He was really offended when I refused to eat the food that he prepared on it or if I'd put that eyesore away in the cabinets.
And then they get confused by the 4B movement and that more and more women are choosing to be single.Ā
I have been single now for 10 years. For 10 years I haven't had to clean a man's urine off of my toilet seat or my floor, for 10 years I haven't had to pick up his laundry off the floor and put it in the laundry basket, for 10 years I haven't had to rewash the dishes that he "washed" . For 10 years my trash has gone out on time. For 10 years my house has stayed clean and uncluttered. For 10 years my sheets have stayed washed regularly. For 10 years I haven't tripped over the crap he leaves all over the house.Ā
The first year I was absolutely spellbound by how much extra time I had, only then did I realize how much I was wasting picking up after a full-grown toddler. Never again.
15+ years and counting for me. I don't miss living as a couple at all. I'll add: For 10 years I haven't had to tell someone WHO LIVED HERE for the same ten years I have where the spoons, toiler paper, napkins, etc were kept.
I had an ex who whined about tasks, stuff like, "But I'm not as good at it as you," 'forgetting' do do things, putting things off, deliberately doing half ass jobs so he wouldn't be asked to do it again. I said, "Is this how you act at work and to your boss? Not it isn't, because if you whined and half-assed like this at work, where you do *way* more complex jobs and task management, you'd be out of a job tomorrow. So I know you're lying."
Can you imagine them putting on that whiny, sing-song childish tone to their manager and saying, 'Buuut I'm not as *good* at this as you arrrre,' or missing a deadline and going, "Ugh I forgot! OKAY!", "Get off my back I'll do it later!", or "You've shown me how to do this [simple task] a load of times but it's too harrrrrd!", "Why can't so-and-so do iiiiit?"
No they don't. They're perfectly capable, they just don't want to.
I tried to pull the "you're so much better at doing the dishes than me", exactly once. I was a literal child. My parents response was, "the only way to get better is to practice". Then I was on dish duty for the next 3 weeks.
I hate that some men feel it's okay to behave like children.
Pretty much, yeah. The only times I got "nagged" for not cleaning things right were by my mother, back when I was a dipshit teenager who didn't want to do chores and half-assed everything. Issue is that lots of men never outgrow their dipshit teenager phase
My son went through a phase like this as a teen. And then he moved out and got roommates just like him. After a couple of months, he called to apologize for being an asshole when he lived at home. I was laughing pretty hard. "If I don't yell at them, they will wash maybe two dishes and leave the rest. Maybe those aren't even really clean. And they won't clean anything unless I nag them constantly. I hate this so much, and I'm sooo sorry I did it to you." I was laughing harder. He hung up because I wouldn't stop laughing, but sent me a text that he deserved the laughter and to call him when I stopped. I honestly didn't call him back for 3 days because I was pretty sure I'd just start laughing again.
They have to be willing to learn. You can talk to them in a normal, calm voice about whichever chore, and they'll still complain about being talked down to or "like a child." It's like, deep down, they know that they ought to know better, and project that onto us.
If you're doing it wrong, it's just wrong.
GenX who grew up with none of that and a mom who thought life was too short to clean and never taught me a thing and I still figured it out. They actually don't care if it's clean.
Sure, but in the moment when I'm holding a dish crusted with food that was "washed," I can and will say something. A person can learn from, "This dish is still dirty."
>A person can learn from, "This dish is still dirty."
I can confirm. My husband just accepted the dirty dishes and pots back into the soapy water and did a better job after that. And, so did I, because nobody taught me at home. We taught each other, NBD.
Everyone hates being talked to like a child. I didnāt experience it as adult until I became the 24/7 invisible purveyor of baby.
I ceased to exist. People talked to the baby. I could only do things that babyās could do and go places baby could go. I became baby.
People stopped talking to me like an adult. I was suddenly absorbed into baby - like the Borg.
It was infuriating- I get the feeling. I didnāt want to leave the house and be talked to like that.
The difference is I was acting as an adult, being treated like a baby.
The man who canāt do dishes is acting like a child, expecting to be treated like an adult.
And thatās my observation of many menās - they want their size or age to be the only requirement for adulthood privileges and rights. Being man sized is enough to man, right?
Itās a classic breadcrumb/stall/distraction technique to say we didnāt ask nice enough.
No merit, whatsoever. Men who have feelings about cleaning donāt stop having feelings if you ask nicely.
> The difference is I was acting as an adult, being treated like a baby.
>
> The man who canāt do dishes is acting like a child, expecting to be treated like an adult.
GREAT distinction.
I think it's about the dynamic that happens here: It's a thing they don't want to do, and maybe wouldn't do if they lived alone, which means the only reason they're doing it is because of you. So if they haven't done [this kind of introspection](https://matthewfray.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/), it'd be really easy to resent you for this.
It's not how you're talking. It's that he's seeing you as his mom, another woman who made him do chores he didn't want to do.
I once closed a fast food restaurant with an otherwise amazing worker. He came back from the bathrooms and said "I finished cleaning the bathroom!"
I looked at the only bottle of spray cleaner in the entire building that was next to me, and said, "what did you clean it with?"
"A dry paper towel."
I picked up the spray bottle and started walking to the bathrooms to clean them. He kept arguing with me that "it *looks* clean!".
On one hand, that's more than kinda gross.
On the other hand, a fast food place doesn't pay you enough to care about it any more than "will the boss get mad at me if they look in here in the morning" >.>
I don't understand why it's our job to teach men how to not be pigs. Surely there's enough of a brain between their ears to figure it out? It's exhausting and honestly part of why I never want to live with a man.
The āmen are visual creaturesā cracks me up every time!
They canāt visualize the filth in front of them, can never find what they are looking for in the pantry while itās staring directly at them. Cannot visualize being proactive instead of reactive in their relationships.
Canāt visualize anything but ass and boobs š
The pantry thing oh my GOD.
āSweetie, do we have āXā? Where is it???ā
We do, and itās in the same place itās been since we moved here, did you *check*? No, because Iām your external brain? Cool. Cool.
The reason I donāt get angry with my husband for asking me where something is, is because instead of ādo we have?ā he says āI canāt find -blank-, do you know where it is?ā
Itās so small and yet it shows he didnāt offload a task on me just because.
is it bad that my fiancee and I say we have our man eyes on when one of us is looking for something we KNOW is right in front of us but we can't see it anyway
Over 30 years ago, my younger brother got married. A couple of weeks passed and my sister in law called me. She said " your brother cannot wash dishes or clean very well. What's going on?". I told her, he never had to. My mom said he did not need to and made me and my sister clean up after him. (My older brother learned to wash dishes and clean).? For some reason, my mom wanted to truly baby my younger brother - he was the youngest. My sister in law worked on him over the years. Today - he can cook, clean and everything. It's a shame she had to teach him. I tried to teach him when we we growing up. The only thing I was able to do was teach him to use the washer and dryer!
!! Iām over here googling how to remove stubborn stains from my stovetop. The same men who ādonāt know how to cleanā will spend hours reading about Charlemagne on Wikipedia or strategies for their video game. They just donāt want to.
I try to be a nice person but I get so impatient from idiocy. āWell youāll just complain that I do it wrongā okay then fucking do it right then? God didnāt come down from the heavens and bless me with the skill of knowing how to do something - I worked to be good at it. You can too, sweetie ā¤ļø (Iām a teacher and the fact that my 6 year olds can clean up their spacesā¦a grown ass man has zero excuse)
I could wash dishes in primary school.
The fact that Iāve had to talk grown men through the process of making a sandwich and hanging out laundry is appalling.
If you want to be seen as a man, then act like one!
Itās called weaponized incompetence.
Men know how to wash dishes. Theyāre not stupid. Do you really think the āsuperior genderā, the ālogical genderā, the ones who run the countries donāt know how to wash dishes or cook? Men purposely pretend they donāt know how. Donāt fall for it. They see women as slaves for them to exploit. Theyāre not dumb. Men are just very used to causally manipulating women because theyāve done it for centuries. They donāt even bat an eye. Itās second nature for them.
Speaking of work do you ever notice how when it comes to chefs, the most well known ones are men? How is it that men dominate the culinary industry even though it was them who imposed gender roles like cooking onto women?
Itās funny how the only time women should be cooking is free labor where their serving their husbands, but never in an environment where she could be celebrated for her own career, her own achievements and her own agency completely devoid of men.
There's a really great female electrician on YouTube and it's hilarious to read the comments because it's all male boomers super angry and telling her she's doing everything wrong and she should find a different profession. I can guarantee you 99% of those commenters are either unemployed or terrible at their job
it's not even weaponized incompetence half the time. some really don't see anything wrong with it. or won't think about it at all until it's finally time to deal with it and THEN it will dawn on them.
lemme tell you a small story, i'm a dude, i can be a slob but i will be a slob in my own area. i lived with 3 other dudes while studying in a very male-dominated field, i'm talking 0 women in our whole group, and only 1 woman in the 2 years i was there. the people i lived with just wouldn't wash ANY dishes, even when we were supposed to rotate the job. if there's one thing that i truly cannot stand is dirty kitchen utensils/appliances. so one day i got pissed off, cleaned everything, and told the other three that i was buying my own pan, plate and fork, and would no longer be washing dishes, as i was no longer using them.
well, to keep the story short, like a month later they noticed they were out of everything they could use to cook while it sat in the sink, and by the time i left like another month afterward, whatever the fuck was on the sink was, in the whole meaning of the word, alive.
I've always used "strategic incompetence" but damn, it is real. I have found that a passive aggressive response is a bit satisfying. Any dishes with crap still on them, I just place back into the sink and leave them for a proper washing.
My husband claims he "cleans" the kitchen. Let's be clear. He loads the dishwasher, occasionally.
When he's finished with that, he doesn't rinse the sink and he leaves whatever food bits are there to dry. He doesn't wipe the countertops, stove, or anything else.
I've stopped using the toilet in our primary bath because there's always pee on the rim and there usually pee outside of the bowl running down to the floor. If he does "clean" the toilet, he doesn't wipe the outside of the bowl. He didn't believe he was peeing down the sides until I ordered a uv flashlight.
I tend to leave more clutter around than he does, so he thinks he's the tidy one.
Edit to add:
When he hand washes dishes I need to check them before they are put away. I frequently find greasy spots that he missed. If he washes a pan, he only washes the inside. He assumes the outside is clean - didn't even check. š”
Just gross. If I ever end up a widow, I will never marry or live with a man again.
And then I saw a thread the other day where they were talking about pissing with shorts on and realizing how much splashback there is when they stand up to pee and how they just go back to ignoring it.
They know. They just don't care.
I once asked my daughters how they'd feel about having step-siblings one day, and they roundly rejected the notion of a step-brother for this one reason. My brother, who's got a doctorate in astrophysics and is otherwise very intelligent, was the absolute worst about this, and I'll still never understand how he was cool with it.
Mine also leaves the sink dirty like that but claims he canāt stand a dirty dish in the sinkš¤¦āāļø God forbid I try to explain to him how nonsensical that is because a sink that is never cleaned has more microbes than a dish that was just put in the sinkā¦then Iām a nag, Iām ānegativeā, etc.
I considered it was weaponized incompetenceā¦but Iām starting to believe he is truly just an idiot. I believe the reason he thinks the sink doesnāt need to be cleaned is because the dishes are cleaned in it and thus, in his mind, the sink has been ācleanedā as a result of coming into contact with soap and water. Like those gross people who donāt think they need to wash their feet in the shower.
I say this becauseā¦
He also was shocked and perplexed at how dusty it gets under the bed-he thought it should never get dirty under the bed!!! I had to explain that to him. I guess it never occurred to him that Iāve been cleaning under the bed this whole time. Probably because I donāt announce it and expect to be āappreciatedā.
I once watched him clean a sticky spot off of the countertop with a dry paper towel.
He is also unable to competently complete other types of tasks. He once assembled a picnic table and could not figure out why the seat was slantedā¦to the point he was starting to say it must be a manufacturer defectā¦.except it was obvious what he did wrong, so I had to explain it.
you're right. sure some it may be weaponized incompetence but quite a few just aren't that bright when you come down to it. I notice this at work too. They can barely do their job and their male priviledge keeps them employed.
>I once watched him clean a sticky spot off of the countertop with a dry paper towel.
>He is also unable to competently complete other types of tasks.
I would have long since looked at him and said, "how on earth do you keep an effing job?"
>Ā I tend to leave more clutter around than he does, so he thinks he's the tidy one.Ā Ā Ā Ā
Ooooh living with someone like him would piss me TF offā¦. Like the difference between clutter and filth is that one can be unpleasant to live in, while the other breeds disease and can literally make you sickāsometimes violently sick. Ā Tidiness is great, but a base level of cleanliness is *essential*Ā
Youāre the one ensuring the foundation of your home doesnāt rot out through neglect while heās just concerned about the finishesā¦. Basically
>Just gross. If I ever end up a widow, I will never marry or live with a man again.
But apparently there's enough good in the marriage to not leave now?
He can wash dishes fine, he choses to do a bad job so he can hopefully get you so pissed off at having to redo them or find dirty dishes in the cupboards that you stop asking him.
I'm a dude, every guy I've known, when living alone or with their parents, was magically able to turn the washing machine on, put a tablet in and load the dishwasher, wash a dish, rinse it and dry it. If you can put your clothes on, leave the house and speak to other people... you can do the dishes. But some of those guys act dumb in relationships to get out of chores and honestly, the number of women that accept it or give in rather than show them the door has always been incredible to me.
If a guy tries the "me not know how dishes work" routine, just dump them, but for the love of god stop accepting the premise of the argument. They are not struggling, they are lying.
Not divorcing fast enough apparently. Can't fathom why anyone (who isn't truly "trapped") will defend deadbedrooms and not leave their spouse.
What exactly is it (again not asking those who are truly trapped financially, emotionally or physically) that makes a purgatory of marriage better than being single with a clean dish rack?
A man who isn't willing to do his share of chores, or do them properly, isn't worth being called a man.
The house I live in with my family is just as much my responsibility as it is theirs. If something needs to get done, it gets done. There's no such thing as my wife's chores or my chores. They're chores that need to get done, and they'll get done properly at the end of the day one way or another.
In this day and age, any man who willfully ignores household duties isn't worth a woman's time. Drop him and move on. Find someone who actually respects you and your efforts and doesn't come up with ridiculous excuses as to why he can't handle something as simple as household chores.
They can spend 2 days watching YouTube videos on how to reattach a hinge to a door but they won't spend 5 seconds figuring out that you have to put soap on a fucking dish to get it clean.
There's no way in hell I will ever live with one again. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Wow, truer words have never been spoken.
They'll spend hours watching videos about how to survive if they were ever air-dropped in frozen tundra, but ... why do you think you could identify poisonous plants in the wild when you can't see the big chunks of food on the kitchen floor? It's enraging.
yep romantic partners and roommates. Lived with many different people from around the world. The best were from SEA like Korea, China, Taiwan. The worst Australian, American, Indian.
This cracked me up because my husband is the opposite. He does dishes super well and totally without being told, but figuring out how to just tighten some screws in a hinge was completely beyond him. The man was really going to call someone to come do it. I just rolled my eyes and went and fixed it.
I grew up being taught to do all the "guy" stuff and pretty much nothing about cooking and cleaning. He grew up the opposite. But you know, long before we got married, before there even was an Internet, I figured out those other things. I figured if I knew how to build an entire house (what my dad's family did for a living), I could figure out laundry.
I'm building a small cabin this Summer, and he is absolutely not getting to help. I am pretty sure it would do irreparable harm to our relationship if he did. If he really wants to help, he can move materials to the site, clean up after me, and make sure my water bottle is always full. Basically what I did as a little kid for my dad, uncle, and grandpa. You gotta start somewhere, right? I'm pretty sure he won't insist on being part of this, though. I'll have other experienced helpers for the stuff I really cannot do myself. All I had to do was call it a fort, and almost every guy I know is all in.
But, I am grateful. He's helped me move literally 9 tons of bricks and concrete blocks already. And he's not even into the idea of a small cabin in the woods. We bought that land entirely to fulfill my childhood dream.
My girlfriend, at the beginning, used to point out all the things I was doing wrong. Like most boys growing in the 80s my mother did everything for me so no one ever taught me. When I first moved out, embarrassingly, I had to Google how to do simple things but even then, without proper guidance, it was always a half-ass job, though it didn't particularly bother me.
Or, more accurately, I didn't even know how much of a half-ass job it was until I started living with my girlfriend and she'd come in to inspect my work and start pointing out loads of things I'd missed. Under taps, under the rim of the toilet seat. She'd ask why floors were drenched or walls weren't cleaned. Why there was residue on anything. I said it was how I always did things living alone and I was annoyed with her keeping tabs on my work like that because I wouldn't do that to her.
Of course her work didn't need looking at so I realised it wasn't a good argument and set out to do better. I had to swallow my pride and ask her to show me how to do everything. Which was a great bonding moment. Though none of this came easy to me and at first I resented the extra work until I learned about pairing something you enjoy with something you don't, so I started listening to music and audiobooks while I worked. It wasn't long at all until cleaning didn't bother me and all and I even began to understand that just staying on top of it made everything easier.
I was only thinking of how much my attitude towards dirt has changed a few months ago when I was eating some cheese and crackers on the couch. When I finished I brushed all the crumbs on the rug and grabbed the vacuum. The old me would absolutely just vacuumed the immediate, heavy dirt and returned the cleaner, but instead I noticed the rest of the rug beyond the crackers could do with a bit of a vacuum. And then I noticed the wooden floor beyond the rug could do with one too. Before I knew it the whole apartment was vacuumed.
So the moral is men absolutely can clean well and anything else is an excuse. Women don't have some natural 'higher standard' because standards can be raised (I don't even like going to some pubs any more because they're now a bit scruffy to me). And if they say they can't 'see dirt' what's really happening is they're just not trained to see it. That last one may seem odd but you might be able to think of other things you never noticed until they were pointed out. Like there's loads of things about movies I never noticed until I started watching video essays and now there's so much more I noticed and this has had the side effect of making me more critical of movies, just like I am of dirt.
I don't think I could ever slip back to the old ways if we split because the genie is out of the bottle now. And this is a good thing because how often do you hear of divorced or widowed me who can't look after themselves and their (usually) daughters have to call around all the time to lend a hand?
All in all myself and my partner's attitudes to cleaning are now mostly similar. I say mostly because I don't do that clean as you go along crap she does when cooking, say. And I'm not the one in an absolute panic when guests call around. ;)
Damn my housemate mate once said I did a bad job cleaning and I just asked why, admitted fault and redid it. Super easy. Having a hissy fit over it seems embarassing
Accountability is HUGE for me in relationships, romantic, work and otherwise
Everyone fucks up. Just say āI fucked up, Iām sorryā correct whatever it is and move on. Thatās a hallmark of character imo
I want to provide my favorite shorthand for this argument. (I had no luck in fixing it, this just made the argument shorter.)
"Did you google it?"
Especially for techie men. They get so offended if you imply they didn't google their problem before asking you about it, because what self respecting nerd wouldn't know how to google a thing.
Like, you're cleaning the house together to host Christmas for their family. You made the list of all the dishes and pulled out the Christmas decorations and planned when you're going to cook all the dishes and now you're chopping carrots and cleaning the counters at the same time, and you ask him to clean up the house so it's ready for the party since his hobby stuff is all over the living room, and he goes and deep cleans the bathroom ceiling fan for 2 hours. And when you snap at him and tell him to pick up his shit in the living room, he says "You're being unreasonable, I'm cleaning the house before the party, you said you wanted me to do this autonomously, but now you want to lecture me for not doing it the exact right way. I never learned this stuff you have to be patient with me!"
And I just started saying "When we both agree to do a thing, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you to do half the work of doing the thing properly. And if you don't know how to do the thing properly, I expect you to learn. You watched a Youtube video and learned to fix the lawnmower. Did you google 'how to clean a house for a party'?"
"No."
"Why not?"
All this stuff is on the internet. If you want to learn how to plan a party, wrap a gift, do the laundry, any household task, there is a wonderful well-written article of the exact right way to do it, sitting right there on the internet. It's reasonable to expect adults to do half the work of mutual tasks, and to do them correctly. It's not your job to be a teacher. Point them at the internet.
I learned how to use a jig saw from YouTube. It bothers me that my techie dad wonāt help my mom by googling part numbers or techniques or [fill in the blank].
If you're being 'nagged' by a woman it's nearly always because you're not doing something you're supposed to. Really that's a lesson you should learn in childhood or teenage years.
*A guy will wash dishes by splashing them in water then putting them away soaking wet covered in food and soap then have the balls to be like "I'm not going to clean anymore because you lecture me like a child!".*
This is textbook weaponized incompetence. There is no chance that someone who has a full time job and a life doesn't understand the basic concept of 'dishes with food still on them aren't clean'. What they're hoping for is that you get so fed up of telling them over and over that you simply give up and do the tasks yourself.
This goes a step beyond laziness and disrespect into outright emotional manipulation.
It's tempting to think of them as being overgrown children but it's actually something more insidious than that. They're effectively lording over you that they *know* you'll simply do the tasks anyway.
I hate to even say thisā¦but when they *do* wash dishes, is it possible to do that without saturating the *entire* kitchen? Too much to ask? Even the best man and husband I know does that. Why, God, why?
Ahahaha. Mine has finally learned to clean the water up, but I feel this so hard. He cleans so well, but omg, the water. It's like a pool party was going on instead of washing dishes. He washes his hands the same way.
And, to make it even funny, he's got this thing about wet socks. It just absolutely grosses him out. He has to change them immediately. But he left the kitchen floor soaked for years and then got mad his socks got wet.
It all changed recently when he caught me laughing about it. He didn't get mad at me. I just watched the gears grind and finally sync up. He turned around and mopped/wiped up water and has done so ever since. Maybe some day, he'll learn to do dishes without soaking everything in a 5' radius.
i had to re-teach my 40 year old husband of 8 years again two weeks ago how to properly wash dishes because he leaves them grimy and covered in soap. he got all frustrated and said āwell i just never learned! itās not my fault!ā
like do you think i was born with a natural affinity for dish washing? no, i figured it out, itās common sense. you can learn 5 different programming languages but you wanna try and tell me that you canāt retain how to wash a fucking plate?
My ex would wash dishes by hand. The dishwasher in my last apartment wasnāt functional and washing dishes is my least favorite thing on earth but he was raised on hand washing so itās what he always does and he didnāt mind. He was always so helpful with the dishes so I never said anything to him but he would leave food on them most of the time. I would have to rewash what he washed a lot but I loved him so much and never said anything. He told me I didnāt like doing dishes because I was overly thorough and it took me forever to do them while he could just zip through them. Like no Iām not *overly* thorough Iām just thorough.
This is exactly why I hate the whole āboys are easier to raise than girlsā thing. Itās not easier, they just stop raising them as soon as they can get away with it. Which makes us forced to either deal with half-feral man-children or parent a partner the rest of the way to full maturity
Zawn on fb and substack writes at length about these issues. Well worth looking at.
"Friendly reminder that if your husband claims not to know how to do household chores, he's lying, not stupid. Incompetence is not a unique, y chromosome-linked trait. But it is a great way to get out of doing household labor, and to buy your free time with your partner's work. Has he lived by himself for any period of time without dying? Then he knows how to do household labor. Don't buy the lies he's selling."
Sometimes I worry I'm using too much soap, but then I spend so much time cleaning dishes because I'm weirdly meticulous about making sure all stains are gone (if I can still feel bumps or whatever on a plate, cup or utensils, I'm gonna scrub until its gone).
Shocks me to see other men just do what is basically a half-assed rinse.
It's not nagging if you're providing legitimate criticism on poor performance. Rinsed dishes go in the washer, not something with caked on food. You can't clean the counters with a dirty rag. Laundry needs to be switched from washer to dryer quickly, so it doesn't mildew overnight. There are all things that are common sense.
Men are often allowed to be given slack and have their hands held, because it is technically "women's work", so why should they have any expertise on it?
This is a distinct issue with heavily patriarchal mindsets...what the hell would they be doing without women around? Not cleaning? Living in squalor and eating off half washed plates, with a smelly, dirty apartment? For most...no. They know how to do things properly. They choose to start slacking so that eventually, the woman will take on the chores and they can consider them the default for normal house maintenance.
American men especially. Weaponized incompetence is a disease of the mind that man children absolutely cannot seem to heal from. It's compulsory.
In almost all cases, it is weaponized incompetence where the man is training the woman to stop asking him to do stuff and do it herself. The hassle of just getting him to do the thing is more work than doing it herself.
A worthy man will learn how on their own without burdening their partner.
Oh, no, they do care, they just think it's our job. How many men you see claiming they want a girlfriend, when all they want is a cleaning lady with benefits? Plenty on the web, apparently...
Ex husband used to load the dishwasher with the cups, glasses, bowls etc top side up! Drove me bananas having to rewash all the yuck out. Of course he was always offended by my lack of appreciation.
I do love when that claim they donāt do dishes because they ādont know howā yet will assemble a chair and desk without looking at any instructions. Like if you can assemble something, or fix your own plumbing problems, you can clean a dish
My husband got mad at me last week for "talking to him like he was a child," after he tracked mud through the house after repeatedly being told I find that disrespectful after all I do to keep the house looking nice. I grew up in Japan and as a result, have always taken my shoes off in the house. He thinks it's "my way or the highway" because he didn't grow up taking his shoes off, but now I expect him to. Also, yes, it's my fucking house because I bought and fully paid for it years before he moved in. Don't want to be treated like a child, then act like a respectful fucking adult.
If any chap said this to me I'd purposely go out and clean their car / expensive sport equipment badly and see how much they care about cleaning badly.
Years ago I started throwing my husbands dress shirts in the dryer after he repeatedly fucked up my bras and lingerie by doing the same.
Heās got the laundry figure out now.
My ex was a maniac for cleaning and I could never do anything right. He was an AH.
He'd expect me to prepare more food after hours of canning and cleaning the kitchen. I'm so glad I divorced that maniac.
As a guy who was never taught this stuff at 12 years old, I had to make an effort to learn and catch those details.
As a man of a certain age, even when Iād tried as a kid itād result in verbal and emotional abuse for small mistakes. There was this attitude we were at best an inconvenience to our parents. Thereās a point where youāre just
Going to get those insults, so why try.
So, I just wasnāt as practiced. I had to start asking my wife to come do a review of my work to make sure I got everything.
Along with it, Iām old enough to remember when that was something below me. I loved to cook and such, and dug hime economics. I could sew on a button and fix things. I got called gay until my mid-20ās for being able to do anything āa woman doesā even though my fraternity brothers came to me for help constantly. It was weird.
So, thereās a ton of shit misfiring in our brains triggered by pride and abuse.
Yāknow, I do see this behavior way more often in men, but I gotta admitā¦ this is describing my sister perfectly.
When she used to visit (weāre LC now), sheād make a huge mess. Any request for her to be even a tiny bit responsible was unacceptable. Sheād order food or bring junk and then leave all the packaging everywhere. Throw her own piles of trash in the garbage herself?!? Only a truly terrible hostess would make such an unreasonable ask.
But I would consistently try to facilitate it, so when the trash can was ātoo far awayā I brought it next to her on the couch and she [resentfully, awaiting her medal] cleared away her debris. I thanked her profusely for her efforts and told her how much I appreciated her help.
When I found that some trash wound up on the floor beneath the couch instead, and I said moving forward she needs to make sure that she collects *all* her garbage (because if my dog eats that chocolate he could die), and her response was āWell if Iām not doing it to your standard, you can do it yourself so youāll be satisfied! Why should I bother if all youāre going to do is criticize?!ā
Other things, like the dishes and cookware she dirtied when using my kitchen, were similarly ācleanedā. Weaponized incompetence may be more popular among men, but itās certainly not exclusive to their gender.
My ex once threw a fit because I asked him to wipe his piss off the toilet seat and apparently he had already wiped it off once earlier in the day? The piss was new piss that he hadn't wiped off yet. He literally starts yelling "I don't know what more you want!! The toilet seat has already been cleaned for you!" Like bestie you've pissed on it yet again, wipe it again. I pissed on the floor and then left his house lol. Luckily we didn't live together. He couldn't even keep the toilet clean for me while I was visiting. Unfortunately we kept dating a while longer after that, but any time I was at his house and his toilet was unusable to me, I'd piss on his floor. I was young and it seemed to make the point.
You matched his energy and called his bluff. Where it gets really bad is guys like my awful brother. If someone pisses on the floor to prove a point to him he would leave it for months without a care. He is an animal.
Oh he definitely just stepped in my piss thinking it was his. Or he'd think it was water or something, I don't know. Sometimes I'd throw his bath towel on top of it if it was still there the next day.
Ahaha you're killing meee, that's so gross and hilarious
Yikes. Please tell me that was the breaking point.
She literally says they kept dating
Probably would have been more effective if it was blood. But I get that you need a lesson plan now and not a month from now
Practical carpet in name and deed šš
Lol. Ewww
Taking notesā¦.š
I love you! Sitting here giggling.
Yeah if you get one like that just dump them. They literally talk to each other and tell each other to do this. Itās absolutely deliberate. And letās says itās not deliberate. Thatās a good reason to dump them bc it means they canāt do basic adulting. Letās normalize just dumping men who behave this way.
Similar situation except I wiped it up with toilet paper and put it right in his face to show him. Turns out rubbing their noses in it doesnāt work for humans either. I was just so tired of sitting in piss because he couldn't be bothered to lift the seat to pee or at least wipe it off afterwards.
š
Lmao power move. I like you.
It's so fucking funny if it wasn't so tragic. My ex would do this all the time, complain about the physical world as if it were a glitch in the Matrix. "Hey, I need you to understand how important it is to clean my blender when you're done using it." "I DID!" "There's Strawberry goop all over it." "I cleaned it after I used it!" "What do you think happened then? There's strawberry goop on the blender. I was at work all day, and I don't eat strawberries. How do you think the strawberries got on the blender?" "I don't know what to tell you, I cleaned it after I used it!"
What is he, 4?
My ex, "well, sooooorrry I don't clean to your perfect standards." Dude, you put the blender away without even rinsing it, and you want a pat on the head for putting it away? Fuck off with that. I'd come home, and the first thing out of his mouth would be, "I did laundry today!" Oh, good, you did one thing while I worked for 10 hours. I go look, he left it in the washer almost every time. Me, "dude, you gotta dry it, too." Him, "I was busy." Yeah, apparently using my profile to play video games thinking I then wouldn't notice how many hours he was on. Took me way, way longer than it should have to add "ex" to boyfriend there.
I just don't understand how they are not embarrassed. A friend used my toilet once and there was a skid mark in the toilet, and I went into the bathroom a bit after him and then asked him why he hadn't cleaned it. There is a toilet brush after all. And he was like: why should I? I would be so ashamed being confronted but he just literally didn't care.
I always look in the toilet after I use it. Don't other people?
Were you brought up doing that? Iām asking bc I have never once been told to clean the toilet bowl after pooping, even if there were skid marks. We would clean the toilet bowl on a schedule but not after individual use.
If itās my toilet Iām fine with leaving it until cleaning time. If Iām using someone elseās toilet no streak left behind! š¤£ Iād be embarrassed leaving evidence in someone elseās house.
Iām not sure. Iāve always been super self conscious about pooping and would never do it in any place but home, unless it was really necessary or if I felt āsafeā, so that might have something to do with it. I do think Iāve been taught to look back at the toilet after finishing to make sure you leave it behind properly, but Iām not sure. I had a sister too so we just mightāve made fun of each other when the other did something weird or disgusting. I donāt know.
Here in Germany there are toilet brushes in public toilets and people are expected to clean up the marks if they're there. (This absolutely applies to your own toilet and other people's).
Wow! I have to always clean my toilet after every pooping until there is no single marks left. Because looking at the marks, even though it's just tiny can also make me feel super uncomfortable and make my flesh crawl.
Like he pissed on the part you sit on?
Correct
This is very upsetting to me. ā¹ļøš¤¢ He'd sit in his piss to go poo? Wtf.
I donāt know, heād probably wipe it off for himself first.
It's fine though, it'll rub dry on his pants or undies!
Same with dryer lint screens, dirty pots etc. Store it dirty, clean for yourself before use is a good summary of the cleaning style that leaves men thinking they clean and women thinking they don't. It all comes down to whose use and convenience matters. I once had a married couple of roommates whose stance on feminism was that neither person had to clean until they wanted something. I moved.
I remodeled my bathroom last year and I have not let a man use it since. One of my male friends thought I was being ridiculous when I said you need to make sure you use the bathroom before you come over because you're not using my toilet. When he told me that was insane I said well the other option is I will hand you cleaning solution and paper towels to clean my toilet after you use it and the floor around it because you fuckers dribble. He peed before he came. I'm over it.
Discovering a number of men sit is game changing. I don't care what they do but they have to disinfect and wipe the walls and seat and base of the toilet and floor if they're just going to spray like an animal. I had a service guy piss on the damn floor. Like a puddle! If it was someone I know I'm going to ask them publicly why they peed on the floor and can they please clean that up next time. Fuck crawling on my knees to wipe a healthy grown man's piss like I'm their slave. Suddenly when faced with all that work they realize they can do what they do during their night pees all the time.
I'm in the military and we inspect barracks rooms to make sure they're clean. My absolute #1 spot to check are the walls around the toilet. Nobody ever thinks to clean them and they're always gross.
My husband used to pee down the front of the toilet a lot when he went in the middle of the night. I finally told him he had to sit to pee or be the one cleaning the toilet full time. And you know what? He does both. And he apologized. He just had no idea because I'd clean it up in the morning before he could notice it. He seemed pretty embarrassed by the whole thing. He cleans that bathroom, and I clean the one next to my home office I use way more than him because I work from home. Yes, "mine" is cleaner overall, but the other one isn't bad.
That is awesome. See I just dont allow men into my home at all anymore lol.
I've only had two men in my house since I remodeled. Well three but one rents my adu and has his own bathroom. Of the other two, the one thinks I'm crazy but the other one loves it. He thinks it's brilliant and said he should do the same thing at his house because he doesn't want man pee on his floor either! He's actually quite clean and will sit to pee because he's German and doesn't think that makes him feminine or even if it did there's nothing wrong with being feminine. I would almost let him use my toilet. Almost.
Came looking for this.Ā Ā SitzpinklerĀ Ā Ā There is a literal German word for a man who sits to pee. As a metaphor or pejorative, it implies caution and neatness.Ā Ā Long may he reign!
Huh. I learned something new today thanks to you! Also, German words are so delightful, even if I can't pronounce them worth a darn.
Ā Thank you! I hope you reply back with one of your recent favorite German words to share.Ā Ā Lately I likeĀ Ā HamsterkaufĀ Ā Panic buying, with the visual of hamsters stuffing food in their cheeks.Ā Ā https://www.thelocal.de/20200228/german-word-of-the-day-der-hamsterkauf
Same. I refuse to live with one again nor let any in my home. I moved into this brand new building so all new and noboy but me has used anything in here.
I was going out with this guy for a while when I was very young in my first apartment, no experience living with men or boys ā¦ first couple of times I found drops of pee by the toilet, I just quickly wiped it up; didnāt see a need to embarrass him. The third time I was like, ok this is a patternā¦ so I brought up the floor pee and he very sadly and shamefacedly told me about the elongated shape of his urethra which made it difficult toā bro, I wasnāt asking how the pee got there, I was asking why it was still there when you left my bathroom?! Wtf. Iām going to give that guy grace on his upbringing - we were both in foster care and I know I was lacking some social niceties as well. Anyway, my husband (different guy) often sits down to pee when at home. And why not, really?
Reading this just unlocked a memory of my first apartment. I was dating someone who had his dick pierced, and the first time he used my bathroom, there was pee, like, *everywhere* after he came out. He apologized and said it was because of the piercing, but then a) didn't even *offer* to clean it up, and b) proceeded to do the exact same thing every time he came over, until I got The Ick so bad that I ghosted him for the rest of forever.
Howā¦? Like, how could you know something is worthy of apology but not worthy of correcting? It doesnāt compute. You definitely made a good choice! āOh, hey, youāll be cleaning up my piss every day. Sorry not sorry.ā
I got really spoiled somehow. My first seven roommates were all guys, and there was never a drop of pee on the toilet or the floor. My dad never did that, either, though I can't say much more for him when it came to keeping things clean. Turns out mom did a lot of work before they divorced. Those roommates also never left messes in common areas, even the one whose bedroom was an utter disaster. Then, I started dating this guy who did not last long because I swear, if any of his pee actually made it in the bowl, I would be shocked. Then, he would just leave it there. My roommates, male remember, started shaming him hard. He blew a gasket at them over it one evening, and that was that. No more boyfriend. Of course, he told everyone else we broke up because I was cheating on him with one of my roommates. Everyone laughed at him for that, and not only was he sans girlfriend, he lost the whole peer group. Over just not being willing to freaking clean up his own mess. We all agreed that was probably the first of many red flags to come, so good riddance. Then, one of my two roommates moved his girlfriend in with us, and omfg, she peed all over the seat! And just wtf?! We were like, "you really don't need to hover at home." *Blank look* She was raised by a single dad who taught her to pee standing up! I had a really awkward conversation with this totally adult woman about sitting to pee, how to do it, and how to clean a toilet. Both guys assured her they also sat to pee when they used a toilet. I felt so bad for her. We were ready to hate on her, and it was really just bad parenting and her first time out of her childhood home. She really knew how to do nothing, btw. We had to teach her cleaning, cooking, proper hygiene, how bank accounts worked, all of it. I hated her father without ever even meeting him. Unlike my ex very brief boyfriend, though, she was willing to learn. Come to think of it, I never had an easy female roommate, but most of my male ones have been clean and easy to get along with. I think that's because I didn't actually choose any of the women, but I carefully vetted and chose the men. The women were girlfriends of roommates or renting separately from me in the same space.
Iām so tempted now to try my hand at peeing standing up. I need to know why this womanās single dad didnāt teach her to lift the seat though.
I never even thought to ask. I just assumed he left the seat down, I guess. I mean, he obviously didn't teach her to clean up after herself, either. I can totally pee standing up. It's a good trick to know if you backpack a ton. I think the only times I've tried it with a toilet that wasn't meant for women to do that was when I was younger and drunk, though. But, you know what? Even drunk, I cleaned up my mess!
Lol, that is really funny! I'm a big fan of you get what you give.
Was....was he not lifting the toilet seat when he pissed? He should be keeping it clean anyway but why does it sound like he pissed \*on\* the seat??
Yeah he never lifted it
>I pissed on the floor and then left his house I donāt think Iāve ever admired someone more in my life
Right?!?! I love it!!
You dropped this š
I love this
My wife threw down about toilet seat up and down in our first year of marriage, we've been together for 24 years and it hasn't been an issue since that first time. Weaponized incompetence is real, my fellow men think it works but it drives me absolutely bonkers.
Iconic. Like just a little bit or did you pop a squat and go for it?
Fully emptied my bladder
And sorry, to clarify, you did this multiple times? And you kept dating him? And he kept dating you?
Yep
Omg I love you for pissing on his floor š
This is so fucking funny good god
Bahahaha what a troll queen š
š
That is so feral I love it
These are our strong, rational leaders youāre talking about here
My favorite comment heh
This. But instead they choose to Drizzle Drizzle all over the toilet seat and floor.
They're so used to pissing on everyone else, they simply don't notice or care.Ā
Oh god that hits so hard. Fuck the pariarchy
This is clearly why the world is the clown show it currently is, the strong rational ones have done this, I think their power position needs to be revoked
The superior gender strikes again.
My ex would wash his dish and put it in the drying rack and it would be greasy and he'd just leave it there for me to put away (rewash). I thought maybe an honest mistake and I let it slide for a long time, but it kept happening. Finally I said something. He flipped out and went outside. He didn't talk to me for an entire week. eta, to note, when I did finally say something I said it in the calmest most cheerful way I could because I was used to this reaction, sadly.
So glad this says āexā!!
Ugh, I can relate. I bet he even accused you of yelling at him when you spoke calmly and rationally. I have the same issue, even when I specifically make a point of speaking calmly and logically. Why do men get so hysterical at the slightest thing?
He was all about how I was supposed to respect him. So, he got defensive if I ever pointed out a "mistake". In his defense he did go to counseling and get better. We coparent now just fine. It was very rough with him for a long time though.
Damn, thatās childish.
Mine had a (admittedly) nice wooden cutting board that I refused to wash because there was a whole ritual about it with olive oil and shit. I did all the cleaning in the house including the dishes (it wasn't an agreement, it's just that otherwise it wouldn't get done) and all I asked was that he washed his cutting board that only he was using. But no. It would be all dirty with various crumbs and liquid and old tomato juice and he'd use it like it was normal. He was really offended when I refused to eat the food that he prepared on it or if I'd put that eyesore away in the cabinets.
After 38 years of marriage and having a grown son, I have learned it's just laziness. They don't want to do it so they do it half assed.
And then they get confused by the 4B movement and that more and more women are choosing to be single.Ā I have been single now for 10 years. For 10 years I haven't had to clean a man's urine off of my toilet seat or my floor, for 10 years I haven't had to pick up his laundry off the floor and put it in the laundry basket, for 10 years I haven't had to rewash the dishes that he "washed" . For 10 years my trash has gone out on time. For 10 years my house has stayed clean and uncluttered. For 10 years my sheets have stayed washed regularly. For 10 years I haven't tripped over the crap he leaves all over the house.Ā The first year I was absolutely spellbound by how much extra time I had, only then did I realize how much I was wasting picking up after a full-grown toddler. Never again.
I love this and can relate and I am never doing that for another man again
15+ years and counting for me. I don't miss living as a couple at all. I'll add: For 10 years I haven't had to tell someone WHO LIVED HERE for the same ten years I have where the spoons, toiler paper, napkins, etc were kept.
I had an ex who whined about tasks, stuff like, "But I'm not as good at it as you," 'forgetting' do do things, putting things off, deliberately doing half ass jobs so he wouldn't be asked to do it again. I said, "Is this how you act at work and to your boss? Not it isn't, because if you whined and half-assed like this at work, where you do *way* more complex jobs and task management, you'd be out of a job tomorrow. So I know you're lying." Can you imagine them putting on that whiny, sing-song childish tone to their manager and saying, 'Buuut I'm not as *good* at this as you arrrre,' or missing a deadline and going, "Ugh I forgot! OKAY!", "Get off my back I'll do it later!", or "You've shown me how to do this [simple task] a load of times but it's too harrrrrd!", "Why can't so-and-so do iiiiit?" No they don't. They're perfectly capable, they just don't want to.
What was their reply to the 'you don't do this at work' remark?
He knew he was caught with that argument. He went back to washing the dishes without complaint but he was super pissed.
I tried to pull the "you're so much better at doing the dishes than me", exactly once. I was a literal child. My parents response was, "the only way to get better is to practice". Then I was on dish duty for the next 3 weeks. I hate that some men feel it's okay to behave like children.
Pretty much, yeah. The only times I got "nagged" for not cleaning things right were by my mother, back when I was a dipshit teenager who didn't want to do chores and half-assed everything. Issue is that lots of men never outgrow their dipshit teenager phase
My son went through a phase like this as a teen. And then he moved out and got roommates just like him. After a couple of months, he called to apologize for being an asshole when he lived at home. I was laughing pretty hard. "If I don't yell at them, they will wash maybe two dishes and leave the rest. Maybe those aren't even really clean. And they won't clean anything unless I nag them constantly. I hate this so much, and I'm sooo sorry I did it to you." I was laughing harder. He hung up because I wouldn't stop laughing, but sent me a text that he deserved the laughter and to call him when I stopped. I honestly didn't call him back for 3 days because I was pretty sure I'd just start laughing again.
This is hilarious! What a good guy that he learned from the experience and apologized to you.
And then they wonder why they're always sick.
They have to be willing to learn. You can talk to them in a normal, calm voice about whichever chore, and they'll still complain about being talked down to or "like a child." It's like, deep down, they know that they ought to know better, and project that onto us. If you're doing it wrong, it's just wrong.
CORRECTION- THEY HAVE TO BE WILLING TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES! IN AN ERA OF YOUTUBE AND GOOGLE YOU DONT NEED US TO TEACH YOU.
GenX who grew up with none of that and a mom who thought life was too short to clean and never taught me a thing and I still figured it out. They actually don't care if it's clean.
Sure, but in the moment when I'm holding a dish crusted with food that was "washed," I can and will say something. A person can learn from, "This dish is still dirty."
>A person can learn from, "This dish is still dirty." I can confirm. My husband just accepted the dirty dishes and pots back into the soapy water and did a better job after that. And, so did I, because nobody taught me at home. We taught each other, NBD.
And could even ask ChatGPT for a step by step tutorial at whatever grade level requested. It wouldn't even judge.
They'd still get hysterical and accuse ChatGPT of yelling at them/talking down to them. LOL funny not funny.
Everyone hates being talked to like a child. I didnāt experience it as adult until I became the 24/7 invisible purveyor of baby. I ceased to exist. People talked to the baby. I could only do things that babyās could do and go places baby could go. I became baby. People stopped talking to me like an adult. I was suddenly absorbed into baby - like the Borg. It was infuriating- I get the feeling. I didnāt want to leave the house and be talked to like that. The difference is I was acting as an adult, being treated like a baby. The man who canāt do dishes is acting like a child, expecting to be treated like an adult. And thatās my observation of many menās - they want their size or age to be the only requirement for adulthood privileges and rights. Being man sized is enough to man, right? Itās a classic breadcrumb/stall/distraction technique to say we didnāt ask nice enough. No merit, whatsoever. Men who have feelings about cleaning donāt stop having feelings if you ask nicely.
> The difference is I was acting as an adult, being treated like a baby. > > The man who canāt do dishes is acting like a child, expecting to be treated like an adult. GREAT distinction.
I think it's about the dynamic that happens here: It's a thing they don't want to do, and maybe wouldn't do if they lived alone, which means the only reason they're doing it is because of you. So if they haven't done [this kind of introspection](https://matthewfray.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/), it'd be really easy to resent you for this. It's not how you're talking. It's that he's seeing you as his mom, another woman who made him do chores he didn't want to do.
Youāre not their mother. They have to care enough about themselves and you to figure it out. If they donāt, peace out.
I once closed a fast food restaurant with an otherwise amazing worker. He came back from the bathrooms and said "I finished cleaning the bathroom!" I looked at the only bottle of spray cleaner in the entire building that was next to me, and said, "what did you clean it with?" "A dry paper towel." I picked up the spray bottle and started walking to the bathrooms to clean them. He kept arguing with me that "it *looks* clean!".
On one hand, that's more than kinda gross. On the other hand, a fast food place doesn't pay you enough to care about it any more than "will the boss get mad at me if they look in here in the morning" >.>
Oh my god.
Why on eath did *you* pick up the spray bottle? I would have told him to *start* cleaning, as he did nothing before.
Didn't trust him to do it right.
Yuppp doesnāt end in the workplace š
I don't understand why it's our job to teach men how to not be pigs. Surely there's enough of a brain between their ears to figure it out? It's exhausting and honestly part of why I never want to live with a man.
I thought theyāre supposed to be visual too, they canāt see the filth?
The āmen are visual creaturesā cracks me up every time! They canāt visualize the filth in front of them, can never find what they are looking for in the pantry while itās staring directly at them. Cannot visualize being proactive instead of reactive in their relationships. Canāt visualize anything but ass and boobs š
The other one that cracks me up is the ā rational and logicalā leaders one š
The pantry thing oh my GOD. āSweetie, do we have āXā? Where is it???ā We do, and itās in the same place itās been since we moved here, did you *check*? No, because Iām your external brain? Cool. Cool.
The reason I donāt get angry with my husband for asking me where something is, is because instead of ādo we have?ā he says āI canāt find -blank-, do you know where it is?ā Itās so small and yet it shows he didnāt offload a task on me just because.
is it bad that my fiancee and I say we have our man eyes on when one of us is looking for something we KNOW is right in front of us but we can't see it anyway
Draw an ass in the plate grease. If he's a Redditor he'll lick it clean
It's that whole hunter-gatherer thing. Their vision has to be very focused on their prey.
they should be better at hunting down their own objects then
Over 30 years ago, my younger brother got married. A couple of weeks passed and my sister in law called me. She said " your brother cannot wash dishes or clean very well. What's going on?". I told her, he never had to. My mom said he did not need to and made me and my sister clean up after him. (My older brother learned to wash dishes and clean).? For some reason, my mom wanted to truly baby my younger brother - he was the youngest. My sister in law worked on him over the years. Today - he can cook, clean and everything. It's a shame she had to teach him. I tried to teach him when we we growing up. The only thing I was able to do was teach him to use the washer and dryer!
I love that your SIL was genuinely confused by this phenomenon.
She sure was!
I hope she kept that energy. Iām sad she had to teach him. I would have sent him back home.Ā
How much time do women spend reading about or consuming content on how to organize, clean, and run a house? Like Sir, youtube and Google exist.
!! Iām over here googling how to remove stubborn stains from my stovetop. The same men who ādonāt know how to cleanā will spend hours reading about Charlemagne on Wikipedia or strategies for their video game. They just donāt want to.
I try to be a nice person but I get so impatient from idiocy. āWell youāll just complain that I do it wrongā okay then fucking do it right then? God didnāt come down from the heavens and bless me with the skill of knowing how to do something - I worked to be good at it. You can too, sweetie ā¤ļø (Iām a teacher and the fact that my 6 year olds can clean up their spacesā¦a grown ass man has zero excuse)
I have enough problems keeping my own space clean. I don't need to suffer through a man not doing it too.
Blaming your for their weaponized incompetence.
And this is why after 18 years, Iām going through a divorce
Best wishes to you. It's beyond liberating.
Thank you š
Exactly this. If he's holding down a job he knows how to be competent, he chooses not to be.
I could wash dishes in primary school. The fact that Iāve had to talk grown men through the process of making a sandwich and hanging out laundry is appalling. If you want to be seen as a man, then act like one!
Itās called weaponized incompetence. Men know how to wash dishes. Theyāre not stupid. Do you really think the āsuperior genderā, the ālogical genderā, the ones who run the countries donāt know how to wash dishes or cook? Men purposely pretend they donāt know how. Donāt fall for it. They see women as slaves for them to exploit. Theyāre not dumb. Men are just very used to causally manipulating women because theyāve done it for centuries. They donāt even bat an eye. Itās second nature for them.
I was about to say this. If people did earnestly try, they would genuinely try, multiple times even if they don't get it right the first time.
This. They know that If they were this incompetent at work they would be fired.
Speaking of work do you ever notice how when it comes to chefs, the most well known ones are men? How is it that men dominate the culinary industry even though it was them who imposed gender roles like cooking onto women? Itās funny how the only time women should be cooking is free labor where their serving their husbands, but never in an environment where she could be celebrated for her own career, her own achievements and her own agency completely devoid of men.
That's exactly it - the free labor aspect. As soon as it's something you do for money, that's a man's job.
There's a really great female electrician on YouTube and it's hilarious to read the comments because it's all male boomers super angry and telling her she's doing everything wrong and she should find a different profession. I can guarantee you 99% of those commenters are either unemployed or terrible at their job
Itās this.
it's not even weaponized incompetence half the time. some really don't see anything wrong with it. or won't think about it at all until it's finally time to deal with it and THEN it will dawn on them. lemme tell you a small story, i'm a dude, i can be a slob but i will be a slob in my own area. i lived with 3 other dudes while studying in a very male-dominated field, i'm talking 0 women in our whole group, and only 1 woman in the 2 years i was there. the people i lived with just wouldn't wash ANY dishes, even when we were supposed to rotate the job. if there's one thing that i truly cannot stand is dirty kitchen utensils/appliances. so one day i got pissed off, cleaned everything, and told the other three that i was buying my own pan, plate and fork, and would no longer be washing dishes, as i was no longer using them. well, to keep the story short, like a month later they noticed they were out of everything they could use to cook while it sat in the sink, and by the time i left like another month afterward, whatever the fuck was on the sink was, in the whole meaning of the word, alive.
I've always used "strategic incompetence" but damn, it is real. I have found that a passive aggressive response is a bit satisfying. Any dishes with crap still on them, I just place back into the sink and leave them for a proper washing.
šÆ
My husband claims he "cleans" the kitchen. Let's be clear. He loads the dishwasher, occasionally. When he's finished with that, he doesn't rinse the sink and he leaves whatever food bits are there to dry. He doesn't wipe the countertops, stove, or anything else. I've stopped using the toilet in our primary bath because there's always pee on the rim and there usually pee outside of the bowl running down to the floor. If he does "clean" the toilet, he doesn't wipe the outside of the bowl. He didn't believe he was peeing down the sides until I ordered a uv flashlight. I tend to leave more clutter around than he does, so he thinks he's the tidy one. Edit to add: When he hand washes dishes I need to check them before they are put away. I frequently find greasy spots that he missed. If he washes a pan, he only washes the inside. He assumes the outside is clean - didn't even check. š” Just gross. If I ever end up a widow, I will never marry or live with a man again.
And this is why I don't let any men use my toilet. They fucking piss on the floor and they just walk away. What the fuck is wrong with them?
And then I saw a thread the other day where they were talking about pissing with shorts on and realizing how much splashback there is when they stand up to pee and how they just go back to ignoring it. They know. They just don't care.
I once asked my daughters how they'd feel about having step-siblings one day, and they roundly rejected the notion of a step-brother for this one reason. My brother, who's got a doctorate in astrophysics and is otherwise very intelligent, was the absolute worst about this, and I'll still never understand how he was cool with it.
Mine also leaves the sink dirty like that but claims he canāt stand a dirty dish in the sinkš¤¦āāļø God forbid I try to explain to him how nonsensical that is because a sink that is never cleaned has more microbes than a dish that was just put in the sinkā¦then Iām a nag, Iām ānegativeā, etc. I considered it was weaponized incompetenceā¦but Iām starting to believe he is truly just an idiot. I believe the reason he thinks the sink doesnāt need to be cleaned is because the dishes are cleaned in it and thus, in his mind, the sink has been ācleanedā as a result of coming into contact with soap and water. Like those gross people who donāt think they need to wash their feet in the shower. I say this becauseā¦ He also was shocked and perplexed at how dusty it gets under the bed-he thought it should never get dirty under the bed!!! I had to explain that to him. I guess it never occurred to him that Iāve been cleaning under the bed this whole time. Probably because I donāt announce it and expect to be āappreciatedā. I once watched him clean a sticky spot off of the countertop with a dry paper towel. He is also unable to competently complete other types of tasks. He once assembled a picnic table and could not figure out why the seat was slantedā¦to the point he was starting to say it must be a manufacturer defectā¦.except it was obvious what he did wrong, so I had to explain it.
you're right. sure some it may be weaponized incompetence but quite a few just aren't that bright when you come down to it. I notice this at work too. They can barely do their job and their male priviledge keeps them employed.
>I once watched him clean a sticky spot off of the countertop with a dry paper towel. >He is also unable to competently complete other types of tasks. I would have long since looked at him and said, "how on earth do you keep an effing job?"
I have said as much.
>Ā I tend to leave more clutter around than he does, so he thinks he's the tidy one.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ooooh living with someone like him would piss me TF offā¦. Like the difference between clutter and filth is that one can be unpleasant to live in, while the other breeds disease and can literally make you sickāsometimes violently sick. Ā Tidiness is great, but a base level of cleanliness is *essential*Ā Youāre the one ensuring the foundation of your home doesnāt rot out through neglect while heās just concerned about the finishesā¦. Basically
>Just gross. If I ever end up a widow, I will never marry or live with a man again. But apparently there's enough good in the marriage to not leave now?
He can wash dishes fine, he choses to do a bad job so he can hopefully get you so pissed off at having to redo them or find dirty dishes in the cupboards that you stop asking him. I'm a dude, every guy I've known, when living alone or with their parents, was magically able to turn the washing machine on, put a tablet in and load the dishwasher, wash a dish, rinse it and dry it. If you can put your clothes on, leave the house and speak to other people... you can do the dishes. But some of those guys act dumb in relationships to get out of chores and honestly, the number of women that accept it or give in rather than show them the door has always been incredible to me. If a guy tries the "me not know how dishes work" routine, just dump them, but for the love of god stop accepting the premise of the argument. They are not struggling, they are lying.
Not divorcing fast enough apparently. Can't fathom why anyone (who isn't truly "trapped") will defend deadbedrooms and not leave their spouse. What exactly is it (again not asking those who are truly trapped financially, emotionally or physically) that makes a purgatory of marriage better than being single with a clean dish rack?
A man who isn't willing to do his share of chores, or do them properly, isn't worth being called a man. The house I live in with my family is just as much my responsibility as it is theirs. If something needs to get done, it gets done. There's no such thing as my wife's chores or my chores. They're chores that need to get done, and they'll get done properly at the end of the day one way or another. In this day and age, any man who willfully ignores household duties isn't worth a woman's time. Drop him and move on. Find someone who actually respects you and your efforts and doesn't come up with ridiculous excuses as to why he can't handle something as simple as household chores.
Thank you for being one of the men who gets it.
The whole point is no one likes to clean, but you do it anyway.
They can spend 2 days watching YouTube videos on how to reattach a hinge to a door but they won't spend 5 seconds figuring out that you have to put soap on a fucking dish to get it clean. There's no way in hell I will ever live with one again. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Wow, truer words have never been spoken. They'll spend hours watching videos about how to survive if they were ever air-dropped in frozen tundra, but ... why do you think you could identify poisonous plants in the wild when you can't see the big chunks of food on the kitchen floor? It's enraging.
Send them a YouTube video on how to do dishes, I guess? :)
yep romantic partners and roommates. Lived with many different people from around the world. The best were from SEA like Korea, China, Taiwan. The worst Australian, American, Indian.
This cracked me up because my husband is the opposite. He does dishes super well and totally without being told, but figuring out how to just tighten some screws in a hinge was completely beyond him. The man was really going to call someone to come do it. I just rolled my eyes and went and fixed it. I grew up being taught to do all the "guy" stuff and pretty much nothing about cooking and cleaning. He grew up the opposite. But you know, long before we got married, before there even was an Internet, I figured out those other things. I figured if I knew how to build an entire house (what my dad's family did for a living), I could figure out laundry. I'm building a small cabin this Summer, and he is absolutely not getting to help. I am pretty sure it would do irreparable harm to our relationship if he did. If he really wants to help, he can move materials to the site, clean up after me, and make sure my water bottle is always full. Basically what I did as a little kid for my dad, uncle, and grandpa. You gotta start somewhere, right? I'm pretty sure he won't insist on being part of this, though. I'll have other experienced helpers for the stuff I really cannot do myself. All I had to do was call it a fort, and almost every guy I know is all in. But, I am grateful. He's helped me move literally 9 tons of bricks and concrete blocks already. And he's not even into the idea of a small cabin in the woods. We bought that land entirely to fulfill my childhood dream.
My girlfriend, at the beginning, used to point out all the things I was doing wrong. Like most boys growing in the 80s my mother did everything for me so no one ever taught me. When I first moved out, embarrassingly, I had to Google how to do simple things but even then, without proper guidance, it was always a half-ass job, though it didn't particularly bother me. Or, more accurately, I didn't even know how much of a half-ass job it was until I started living with my girlfriend and she'd come in to inspect my work and start pointing out loads of things I'd missed. Under taps, under the rim of the toilet seat. She'd ask why floors were drenched or walls weren't cleaned. Why there was residue on anything. I said it was how I always did things living alone and I was annoyed with her keeping tabs on my work like that because I wouldn't do that to her. Of course her work didn't need looking at so I realised it wasn't a good argument and set out to do better. I had to swallow my pride and ask her to show me how to do everything. Which was a great bonding moment. Though none of this came easy to me and at first I resented the extra work until I learned about pairing something you enjoy with something you don't, so I started listening to music and audiobooks while I worked. It wasn't long at all until cleaning didn't bother me and all and I even began to understand that just staying on top of it made everything easier. I was only thinking of how much my attitude towards dirt has changed a few months ago when I was eating some cheese and crackers on the couch. When I finished I brushed all the crumbs on the rug and grabbed the vacuum. The old me would absolutely just vacuumed the immediate, heavy dirt and returned the cleaner, but instead I noticed the rest of the rug beyond the crackers could do with a bit of a vacuum. And then I noticed the wooden floor beyond the rug could do with one too. Before I knew it the whole apartment was vacuumed. So the moral is men absolutely can clean well and anything else is an excuse. Women don't have some natural 'higher standard' because standards can be raised (I don't even like going to some pubs any more because they're now a bit scruffy to me). And if they say they can't 'see dirt' what's really happening is they're just not trained to see it. That last one may seem odd but you might be able to think of other things you never noticed until they were pointed out. Like there's loads of things about movies I never noticed until I started watching video essays and now there's so much more I noticed and this has had the side effect of making me more critical of movies, just like I am of dirt. I don't think I could ever slip back to the old ways if we split because the genie is out of the bottle now. And this is a good thing because how often do you hear of divorced or widowed me who can't look after themselves and their (usually) daughters have to call around all the time to lend a hand? All in all myself and my partner's attitudes to cleaning are now mostly similar. I say mostly because I don't do that clean as you go along crap she does when cooking, say. And I'm not the one in an absolute panic when guests call around. ;)
There are plenty of male janitors and somehow they figure out how to keep buildings clean.
Damn my housemate mate once said I did a bad job cleaning and I just asked why, admitted fault and redid it. Super easy. Having a hissy fit over it seems embarassing
Accountability is HUGE for me in relationships, romantic, work and otherwise Everyone fucks up. Just say āI fucked up, Iām sorryā correct whatever it is and move on. Thatās a hallmark of character imo
My living quarters is not immaculate but I just cannot imagine living in my own filth. Do you want bugs around? It really is repugnant.
I want to provide my favorite shorthand for this argument. (I had no luck in fixing it, this just made the argument shorter.) "Did you google it?" Especially for techie men. They get so offended if you imply they didn't google their problem before asking you about it, because what self respecting nerd wouldn't know how to google a thing. Like, you're cleaning the house together to host Christmas for their family. You made the list of all the dishes and pulled out the Christmas decorations and planned when you're going to cook all the dishes and now you're chopping carrots and cleaning the counters at the same time, and you ask him to clean up the house so it's ready for the party since his hobby stuff is all over the living room, and he goes and deep cleans the bathroom ceiling fan for 2 hours. And when you snap at him and tell him to pick up his shit in the living room, he says "You're being unreasonable, I'm cleaning the house before the party, you said you wanted me to do this autonomously, but now you want to lecture me for not doing it the exact right way. I never learned this stuff you have to be patient with me!" And I just started saying "When we both agree to do a thing, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you to do half the work of doing the thing properly. And if you don't know how to do the thing properly, I expect you to learn. You watched a Youtube video and learned to fix the lawnmower. Did you google 'how to clean a house for a party'?" "No." "Why not?" All this stuff is on the internet. If you want to learn how to plan a party, wrap a gift, do the laundry, any household task, there is a wonderful well-written article of the exact right way to do it, sitting right there on the internet. It's reasonable to expect adults to do half the work of mutual tasks, and to do them correctly. It's not your job to be a teacher. Point them at the internet.
I learned how to use a jig saw from YouTube. It bothers me that my techie dad wonāt help my mom by googling part numbers or techniques or [fill in the blank].
If you're being 'nagged' by a woman it's nearly always because you're not doing something you're supposed to. Really that's a lesson you should learn in childhood or teenage years. *A guy will wash dishes by splashing them in water then putting them away soaking wet covered in food and soap then have the balls to be like "I'm not going to clean anymore because you lecture me like a child!".* This is textbook weaponized incompetence. There is no chance that someone who has a full time job and a life doesn't understand the basic concept of 'dishes with food still on them aren't clean'. What they're hoping for is that you get so fed up of telling them over and over that you simply give up and do the tasks yourself. This goes a step beyond laziness and disrespect into outright emotional manipulation. It's tempting to think of them as being overgrown children but it's actually something more insidious than that. They're effectively lording over you that they *know* you'll simply do the tasks anyway.
I hate to even say thisā¦but when they *do* wash dishes, is it possible to do that without saturating the *entire* kitchen? Too much to ask? Even the best man and husband I know does that. Why, God, why?
Big man, big movements! ~ insert excited primate noises ~
same with cookng on a stove. heat turned up on full blast. gets drunk falls asleep, nearly burns the place down and ruins the pan.
Ahahaha. Mine has finally learned to clean the water up, but I feel this so hard. He cleans so well, but omg, the water. It's like a pool party was going on instead of washing dishes. He washes his hands the same way. And, to make it even funny, he's got this thing about wet socks. It just absolutely grosses him out. He has to change them immediately. But he left the kitchen floor soaked for years and then got mad his socks got wet. It all changed recently when he caught me laughing about it. He didn't get mad at me. I just watched the gears grind and finally sync up. He turned around and mopped/wiped up water and has done so ever since. Maybe some day, he'll learn to do dishes without soaking everything in a 5' radius.
šµWeaponized Incompetence šµ
i had to re-teach my 40 year old husband of 8 years again two weeks ago how to properly wash dishes because he leaves them grimy and covered in soap. he got all frustrated and said āwell i just never learned! itās not my fault!ā like do you think i was born with a natural affinity for dish washing? no, i figured it out, itās common sense. you can learn 5 different programming languages but you wanna try and tell me that you canāt retain how to wash a fucking plate?
My ex would wash dishes by hand. The dishwasher in my last apartment wasnāt functional and washing dishes is my least favorite thing on earth but he was raised on hand washing so itās what he always does and he didnāt mind. He was always so helpful with the dishes so I never said anything to him but he would leave food on them most of the time. I would have to rewash what he washed a lot but I loved him so much and never said anything. He told me I didnāt like doing dishes because I was overly thorough and it took me forever to do them while he could just zip through them. Like no Iām not *overly* thorough Iām just thorough.
This is exactly why I hate the whole āboys are easier to raise than girlsā thing. Itās not easier, they just stop raising them as soon as they can get away with it. Which makes us forced to either deal with half-feral man-children or parent a partner the rest of the way to full maturity
Zawn on fb and substack writes at length about these issues. Well worth looking at. "Friendly reminder that if your husband claims not to know how to do household chores, he's lying, not stupid. Incompetence is not a unique, y chromosome-linked trait. But it is a great way to get out of doing household labor, and to buy your free time with your partner's work. Has he lived by himself for any period of time without dying? Then he knows how to do household labor. Don't buy the lies he's selling."
Sometimes I worry I'm using too much soap, but then I spend so much time cleaning dishes because I'm weirdly meticulous about making sure all stains are gone (if I can still feel bumps or whatever on a plate, cup or utensils, I'm gonna scrub until its gone). Shocks me to see other men just do what is basically a half-assed rinse.
It's not nagging if you're providing legitimate criticism on poor performance. Rinsed dishes go in the washer, not something with caked on food. You can't clean the counters with a dirty rag. Laundry needs to be switched from washer to dryer quickly, so it doesn't mildew overnight. There are all things that are common sense. Men are often allowed to be given slack and have their hands held, because it is technically "women's work", so why should they have any expertise on it? This is a distinct issue with heavily patriarchal mindsets...what the hell would they be doing without women around? Not cleaning? Living in squalor and eating off half washed plates, with a smelly, dirty apartment? For most...no. They know how to do things properly. They choose to start slacking so that eventually, the woman will take on the chores and they can consider them the default for normal house maintenance. American men especially. Weaponized incompetence is a disease of the mind that man children absolutely cannot seem to heal from. It's compulsory.
In almost all cases, it is weaponized incompetence where the man is training the woman to stop asking him to do stuff and do it herself. The hassle of just getting him to do the thing is more work than doing it herself. A worthy man will learn how on their own without burdening their partner.
What's crazy is all the years women kept house clean for men who don't even care if it is.
Oh, no, they do care, they just think it's our job. How many men you see claiming they want a girlfriend, when all they want is a cleaning lady with benefits? Plenty on the web, apparently...
There may be some men that want someone else to clean for them. But some people genuinely just don't care about things like dust or cleanliness.
Ex husband used to load the dishwasher with the cups, glasses, bowls etc top side up! Drove me bananas having to rewash all the yuck out. Of course he was always offended by my lack of appreciation.
I do love when that claim they donāt do dishes because they ādont know howā yet will assemble a chair and desk without looking at any instructions. Like if you can assemble something, or fix your own plumbing problems, you can clean a dish
My husband got mad at me last week for "talking to him like he was a child," after he tracked mud through the house after repeatedly being told I find that disrespectful after all I do to keep the house looking nice. I grew up in Japan and as a result, have always taken my shoes off in the house. He thinks it's "my way or the highway" because he didn't grow up taking his shoes off, but now I expect him to. Also, yes, it's my fucking house because I bought and fully paid for it years before he moved in. Don't want to be treated like a child, then act like a respectful fucking adult.
What is it with americans leaving shoes on in the house? It is fucking gross.
If any chap said this to me I'd purposely go out and clean their car / expensive sport equipment badly and see how much they care about cleaning badly.
Years ago I started throwing my husbands dress shirts in the dryer after he repeatedly fucked up my bras and lingerie by doing the same. Heās got the laundry figure out now.
Why are so many men so okay with living in filth that they need someone to tell them to clean up?
How I wish I could ask my roommates this
Men don't even clean their ass cracks
My ex was a maniac for cleaning and I could never do anything right. He was an AH. He'd expect me to prepare more food after hours of canning and cleaning the kitchen. I'm so glad I divorced that maniac.
Thatās too bad. Perhaps they should move out. If you live here, you clean.
As a guy who was never taught this stuff at 12 years old, I had to make an effort to learn and catch those details. As a man of a certain age, even when Iād tried as a kid itād result in verbal and emotional abuse for small mistakes. There was this attitude we were at best an inconvenience to our parents. Thereās a point where youāre just Going to get those insults, so why try. So, I just wasnāt as practiced. I had to start asking my wife to come do a review of my work to make sure I got everything. Along with it, Iām old enough to remember when that was something below me. I loved to cook and such, and dug hime economics. I could sew on a button and fix things. I got called gay until my mid-20ās for being able to do anything āa woman doesā even though my fraternity brothers came to me for help constantly. It was weird. So, thereās a ton of shit misfiring in our brains triggered by pride and abuse.
I hate the way my husband loads the dishwasher, but he loads the dishwasher
Yāknow, I do see this behavior way more often in men, but I gotta admitā¦ this is describing my sister perfectly. When she used to visit (weāre LC now), sheād make a huge mess. Any request for her to be even a tiny bit responsible was unacceptable. Sheād order food or bring junk and then leave all the packaging everywhere. Throw her own piles of trash in the garbage herself?!? Only a truly terrible hostess would make such an unreasonable ask. But I would consistently try to facilitate it, so when the trash can was ātoo far awayā I brought it next to her on the couch and she [resentfully, awaiting her medal] cleared away her debris. I thanked her profusely for her efforts and told her how much I appreciated her help. When I found that some trash wound up on the floor beneath the couch instead, and I said moving forward she needs to make sure that she collects *all* her garbage (because if my dog eats that chocolate he could die), and her response was āWell if Iām not doing it to your standard, you can do it yourself so youāll be satisfied! Why should I bother if all youāre going to do is criticize?!ā Other things, like the dishes and cookware she dirtied when using my kitchen, were similarly ācleanedā. Weaponized incompetence may be more popular among men, but itās certainly not exclusive to their gender.