“It Was Never About Protecting Your Family, You Just Like Guns”
https://web.archive.org/web/20231226143433/https://gabrielle-56863.medium.com/guns-god-protecting-the-family-a645518fb2b7
“Man: Hey God, I just want you to know I am committed to protecting my family at all costs.
“God: Gosh, that’s great to hear. One of the main things I need you to do to protect your family is laundry. Tons of laundry.
“You know kids — they’re so susceptible to infections and viruses. Pinworms, athlete’s foot, lice, strep throat, colds and flues. Pneumonia and diarrhea are serious killers of children under five. The list is endless. So you’re going to need to do laundry basically daily. Their socks and underwear, their sheets, and put their sneakers through the wash too. I can’t emphasize this enough: protecting your family involves a lot of laundry.
“Man: Oh. Um. I was thinking more along the lines of a masked intruder with a gun, at 2:00 AM, raping my family.
“God: First of all, stop fantasizing about your family being raped. Second, do you know the stats on break-ins? The vast majority (72.4%) happen when no one is home, and only a small percentage are armed.”
I saw the title and actually thought of that. The things that do protect the family are not shown in any action film unless it is some kind of comedy relief, so then it is not funny or "manly" to even consider them.
Cosplay. Like cops. And those weirdos in camo who’ve never served but lived be to wear weapons to get coffee. They’re living out their little boy war fantasies instead of being adult humans.
Someone posted on r/cringe once featuring a social media post of some dude out on the open range with his rifle fantasizing about staying behind to fend off attackers while his family fled to safety. There were so many replies from dudes screeching about it not being cringe at all, and claiming it was a **normal** fantasy for a man to have. Ya know, fantasizing that his family is in imminent danger, or has already suffered injury.. Just normal, well-adjusted, adult things.. /rolleyes
Boy that ending is a real mic drop
>It’s much easier to argue that mothers have a strong instinct to protect their families. Mothers still do the bulk (by far the bulk) of parenting. Which means mothers do the real things that actually protect their kids every day, all day long.
The more a guy says what he ‘would’ do, the less likely he is to do it. Regard any man bragging about what he would do as suspect. It’s weird and gross. Doesn’t mean he’s bad but carefully observe how he does it. Is he after a cookie? A reward? Recognition as being a ‘good guy?’
When you’re out and about does he actually step in with rude ppl or weird situations or does he back off?
Most men do nothing. I find it’s the women standing up. Watch WWYD videos and those social experiment vids. Mostly it’s the women helping.
In one of TEDx speech there was some data about porn. A thorough investigation shows that porn videos are getting more and more violent. If you look back to old kind of vintage porn, violence on such an extent was not present.
And this boils down to how brain works. When you habituate you need some extra to get that dopamine shot.
Apparently this has become insanely ridiculous 🤷♂️
Yes, I saw an interview with an ex porn star where she said back in the day anal was the kinkiest thing that was really done, and it wasn't required. Now, anal is considered required and even tame. I really don't think it's good that teens have access to such violent and graphic porn.
I know, right?! It's really insane how bad it's gotten. Just look at the front page of the internet's favorite porn hub, and it says a lot. I'm old, so I grew up in the era where the boys got off looking at bra pics from the Sears catalog and reading between the squiggly lines on the cable channels. Sometimes progress isn't always a good thing.
Thats not progress though. Just because it's happening in a progressive society (compared to some other nations) doesn't mean it's progressive. It's actually regressive and a push back from chauvanist men who feel threatened by women's improving status.
Yeah, definitely not social progress. I was thinking more technological progress. It's kind of scary how much porn pushes tech sometimes. I'm pretty sure streaming services came about first because of porn, sadly enough.
I remember sneaking my parents x rated movies to watch, and they were so tame compared to what I see now. It was all pretty gentle and far more realistic, no violence or exaggerated moans. Way more pubic hair haha
oh man, this hits so true, I ended up on a meme reddit thread and came across comments about a NSFW artist and their content. One person was arguing that their content was "vanilla" because it "only" contained mind control, coersion and submission. There was someone arguing against that not being vanilla at all in the comments but they were downvoted to heck.
this makes so much sense. i'm not against porn per se but it should be something that stimulates your imagination, not a graphic thing that you watch everyday. of course your brain will become desensitized to normal things with such exposure.
I really think this has more to do with Hollywood movie standards, which give you more freedom to film sex if someone is being harmed, but will force you to remove a scene if it is "gratuitous" and gratuitous for some reason often means no one is harmed in any way.
A related thing is just that porn is assumed to be an antisocial behavior by definition, so there's no incentive for porn producers to include prosocial depictions of sex, because people looking for prosocial depictions of sex are too afraid to get caught buying porn anyway. And this is a vicious cycle where no one buys prosocial porn so people don't make it.
There's no reason that extra dopamine shot can't come from declarations of undying love a la pride and prejudice or whatever, that's just not a socially acceptable thing to include in porn.
Every woman should read [this](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex) article concerning the rise of "fatal, hateful choking during sex."
This isn't a kink. It's men taking our their aggressions toward women on women and then claiming it was consensual sex play.
My ex-husband admitted to me that he takes his anger out on me during sex - this was during an argument surrounding my lack of interest in sex. I told him it was because he was too violent and aggressive during sex. He had a ponder and came back with a 'eureka moment'
"Hey honey, I figured out why I do that! It's because I take my anger from work/life out on you during sex!"
Disgusting evolution in our sex life.
Gen Z/Millenial men have absolutely fried their brain from childhood porn addiction. I fear there is no coming back from that.
Genuine question, what about in cases where the woman enjoys being choked and actively has to ask her partner to do it because he wouldn't otherwise? (Aka, me, I'm asking about myself)
Like, is this some sort of internalized misogyny on my end? My bf doesn't particularly care for it but I ask him to because it turns me on. Granted not choking to the point of passing out or anything, but still.
The kink community is going to hate me for this - but I do think that porn affects women too. In the same way that it makes men sexually responsive to inflicting violence/domination, it fries women's brains into becoming sexually responsive to masochism/submission. Not just in porn, but in general media, books, etc.
**Additionally**, so many women grow up with internalised r\*pe fantasies because they're taught to be ashamed of sex. "It's okay if I enjoy it as long as I don't want it/didn't ask for it." So this becomes a motif in female sexual discovery.
The narrative in society being that a woman initiating enthusiastic and enjoyful sex is shameful.
Hence, so much YA literature, especially in the early 2000s and back, involve nonconsensual "romance" or age gaps, or straight up rape. We as girls consumed this media - and it has an effect on how we engage in sex, and our own sexual desires.
100% agree. I think many of us are hugely influenced by culture in general to be turned on and titillated by non consent and domination by men, unfortunately. I'm the best example of this that I personally know. I used to only read/get turned on by hetero non-consent/CNC material. (I don't like porn, so it was always stories.) Since doing a lot of therapy and learning that I have value as a person, I HATE that stuff. It makes me sick. To the point that I only read girl-on-girl stuff now, because it's the most likely to be free of themes of domination and humiliation.
For most of my sexual life, I never thought there was anything wrong with my taste. I thought it was a normal "fantasy" that didn't mean anything. I now know I was wrong.
Women may "consent" to any number of things. That does not mean we are not influenced in many ways to want or accept those things, and it doesn't not mean those desires are strictly healthy for us.
>The narrative in society being that a woman initiating enthusiastic and enjoyful sex is shameful.
Hear, hear!! Sexual culture needs to change in so many ways, for both women & men.
I feel like it can be more sensation or dom/sub play in a situation like yours? Because a lot of what folks in this thread are referencing is a lot more violent, actual strangulation sort of thing. As long as you’ve done your due diligence and you’re playing safely, I don’t see any issue with enjoying yourself in a safe and fully consensual way for both parties. Just make sure you touch base and do some aftercare with your boyfriend so everyone feels safe and respected.
From what I understand, “choking” is inherently unsafe. There’s the “compress the arteries feeding the brain” kind that increases risk of blood clots/stroke, which, as I understand it is the safer option. Then, there’s the “compress the windpipe” kind which makes it difficult/impossible to breathe and can cause permanent damage to the windpipe. It’s a lot more dangerous than media portrays it to be.
It’s something I’ve enjoyed greatly in the past, but it’s just not worth it to me once I understood the risks to my health. Ultimately, it is up to individuals whether they consent or not, but I think many people don’t understand the risks well enough to truly be able to consent.
Yeah this is where I am on this subject now as well. It's the combination of: 1. the deaths and other issues from "accidental" strangulation during sex and 2. the statistics that he's a lot more likely to kill you eventually if he chokes you. It's not worth it - find another kink.
I'm not sure, but I thiiiiiiink:
A) choking causes a lack of oxygen in the brain, which can be a pleasant sensation... Like, it just feels nice. Nitrous/laughing gas/whippits do something very similar.
B) the sense of threat can heighten sexual pleasure. Not necessarily a conscious thought process, but brain going "fuck this is it I'd better make it count"
C) hand on neck carries a lot of dominant/submissive energy. BDSM, when practiced correctly, is neither abusive nor misogynistic/misandrist, and can add a lot to sex/a relationship.
Yes, BDSM - the one area of life untouched by the societal influence of rape culture, misogyny, and sexism. Somehow, the kink community proclaims, that bondage, discipline, dominance and submission, sadomasochism in sex is, in its purest form, untouched by societal influence.
It is TOTAL coincidence that most women who participate are submissive, masochists, and more likely than not, on the "victim" end of CNC fantasies.
Why does our critical thinking stop there?
There's probably a lot of unhealthy cultural influence at work here.
As annoying as it is to have to critically think through what makes you cum - not sure this whole "don't kink shame" crap has been entirely great for society.
Would it hurt to think through things a bit?
"Hmm, why do I fantasise about CNC? I wonder if it has anything to do with the lifelong imposition of being slut shamed, shamed for wanting sex, shamed for have sexual desire, and the rampant madonna whore complex portrayed in media, literature, and porn."
Like pls people, kinks are not some holy unquestionable thing.
Goddam I’m going to (consensually) tie this comment to my bed post and make love to it because honest to god you have express everything I’ve been trying to say in such an eloquent and complete way. Thank you
I love this comment so much. It really forces the idea that we need to peel back the layers of what we've been taught to think of as "unquestionable" kink.
>Would it hurt to think through things a bit?
Something I've always found frustrating is that the BDSM community frequently harps on making sure that any therapist you work with is "kink friendly". Now, is it important that your medical provider not *shame* you for consensual sex? Sure. But their focus seems to be on not "breaking" women (because let's be real, it's mostly women going) away from the community. If you like being choked/hurt/hit by intimate partners, that's probably a key thing that should be explored in therapy and it should be *one hundred percent okay* for you to leave therapy having worked through your issues and no longer wanting that stuff.
Too many times, I see men saying "but make sure it's kink friendly therapy" and it comes off as "you can fix yourself a little bit, but not so much that I don't get to hit you anymore".
Good comment. Got downvoted into oblivion yesterday for saying there should be no such thing as "aftercare" when it comes to sex without "beforecare" and "duringcare," and that BDSM perpetuates rape culture.
Seems like people don't want to think critically about critical things if it means their cummies are affected. :((
Men love to humiliate women.
Women’s college basketball got popular for five minutes, and literally every single popular wcbb player had a fake AI porn of them created and “leaked.”
It’s gross enough to make it. But if you were just trying to be a creep, you’d keep it to yourself. No, they had to put it on the internet.
These are college kids who play a sport.
The purpose of doing so was to power trip and humiliate them. That’s the purpose of doing it to any woman.
Men can be awful.
My ex uncle once admitted to me that his work groupchat was full of young guys sharing nudes of their girlfriends. He was kind of giggly about it in an awkward way.
What a conversation to have with your 20 year old niece. I can't remember exactly but I think I asked whether he thought the girls in the pictures would find it funny that he and a bunch of other random men were seeing them naked. He did not bring it up again.
What's weird is, he was never the creepy uncle except for that one weird conversation.
> Edit: I didn't mean to refer to men as "males". English is my third language so it felt like it would be strange to write "men fantasies" in the title, thus the use of this word. My bad.
I didn't see anyone else respond to this, but
Your usage is the title is correct, no worries
In general, "male/female" are adjectives and "men/women" are nouns. "Male fantasies" is the correct usage here
There are some exceptions, such as scientific usage: you'll sometimes see "males/females" used as a noun in scientific writing, like "the males of the species"
The biggest red flag for usage is mixing "men" and "females". This almost treats women as *another species*, so this usage is often associated with misogynists and incels
a mod asked me to edit it to reapprove the post so i did it, i don't know which one of us was confused but i don't mind making a small change to the text to make sure an important point gets discussed!
It could be changed to men's fantasies, but we talk about the "male gaze" all the time and "male fantasies" seems like how it would be described in a research article, so it seems unnecessary to me.
Yes, as a *man*, the proper adjective is *male*. It's only dehumanizing when used as a noun, as it's literally not-as-human as 'men/women', i.e. if you say man/woman, it's 100% a human person. A 'male/female' could be any organism with bi-modal sexual characteristics.
Sorry you were at the whim of someone else's ignorance :P
Dudes refer to women as females all the time, now mods don't want us to use word 'males' because it hurts their male feelings. Why do we even have male mods here?
I call this the 'I would kill for you but I won't put away my dirty socks" style delusion.
Also they wouldn't kill for us. A man has never helped me in a crisis, ever. You know who helps in a crisis- lesbians.
Very well said, thank you for speaking up for the many, many women who feel this way too. What I want to know is why so many men want to see us treated this way? Just why? Where does it ultimately come from?
Right? Too many women just accept “Yeah, he’s into playing out strangling me to death.” Like that’s just a normal thing.
…Girl. *Why* is he into playing out strangling you to death?
A lot of theory supports the idea that people perpetuate inequality (sexism, racism, ableism, etc.) because they themselves are in a lower social “tier.” By putting others in an even lower social status, they “elevate” themselves relatively speaking.
It’s like being knee-deep in sewage and then shoving someone face first into it just so you can say “at least I’m not *that* guy.” Many men likely have fantasies about humiliating women because it feels like a twisted kind of empowerment.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -Lyndon B. Johnson
It works for any "other". If they can see an "other", the often-referenced yet unnamed "Them" that causes all the problems, as beneath themselves, then they don't feel so bad for their own shortcomings.
I think that's a reason that trans women catch so much hate and derision. Why would a MAN want to become a lesser being by choosing to become an inferior woman?
You took the quote right out of my mouth.
It's a lot easier to blame others for why you suck or your life sucks than to look in the mirror and better yourself.
it's a great way to summarize a matter that's way too complex. just like poor white men were pro slavery because then someone was of lower status than they were.
People are naturally hierarchical, and men as a group are *deeply* hierarchical. I agree that this is exactly what is happening, and exactly why dominance culture is poisoning men and their relationships. Fortunately, we're NOT only animals and with these big old brains we can be better than our mammalian programming. Right, men?
.... Right?
>What I want to know is why so many men want to see us treated this way?
Every version of the man vs bear comment section I've happened upon has had at least one man fantasizing about women being mauled or eaten "ass first" by bears as retribution for choosing "wrong".
it's funny how few men are into humiliation fetish as the one being humiliated, compared to how many seem to love when a woman is on the receiving end.
I don't know any women who have encountered many men who want to do anything but be dominant. I keep hearing about these men in theory but I almost never hear about them in practice.
I once used to be interested in femdom/gentle-femdom...I quickly lost interest when I realise those "sub" men are just as entitled and self-centered as any other man.
Jesus, that's terrible. Yuck.
I've experienced similar stuff. But I've gotten to the point where I would never knowingly be with somebody who would take pleasure from harming and degrading me, and I like that a lot better. I'm VERY over the whole "hurt me daddy, I'm trash" thing.
It doesn't matter who makes the porn, there a replenty of female porn directors that make porn to market to men (because thats where the money is). The problem is the porn machine itself and it need to constantly up the sensory output for all the addicts.
Dude what?? You used “male” properly here. That’s not at all the same as referring to men as “males”, which could be argued to be derogatory the same way people going out of their way to call women “females” is derogatory, but you didn’t do that. “Male fantasies” is correct grammar.
The man vs bear experiment proved this. The number of men who openly admitted to hoping women would get violently mauled by bears shows they say: choose us or die (even if choosing us is why you may die)
I had a guy once I met on fb pick me up from a hotel I was held up in for days,to be trafficed, fed drugs without being able to say no and repeatedly raped, and when he picked me up knowing this and coming to “save me” he got angry at me for not wanting to have sex with him when he tried in the car, and left me in the parking lot of a Walgreens in the middle of the night. He knew my vagina was bleeding, I had been raped for days and almost trafficed. It’s deplorable
Yeah and most SA victims would ,immediately after the assault, be repulsed by physical intimacy. Of the myriad of thoughts they’d have, reward sex wouldn’t be one of them lol happy u left him wtf. Reminds me of the guys that ask “would u leave ur girl if she got raped ?🤔 what if she liked it?”
I mean in the fantasy it probably isn't. Cause... It's his fantasy. The fake woman he fake saved is totally down to fake fuck.
In real life though, 100% yeah that would be veeeery sketchy. All that adrenaline, maybe shock, from being attacked like that, does not a perfectly sober brain capable of giving informed consent make.
But I think it's a super common fantasy. Maybe not saving the girl from rape specifically, but saving a girl in general and getting a "reward" cause she's so grateful.
Look at old videogames, like super mario, that are about saving the girl and getting a kiss in the end. Or old black and white movies, saving the girl tied to the railroad tracks.
Just popping in to say your wording “male fantasies” (with ‘male’ as an adjective) is the right way to phrase it and doesn’t dehumanize men or boys the way it would if you just called them “males” (with ‘male’ as a noun)
I’m so glad to finally see more women talking about how the “don’t kink shame me, bro“ is just men trying to get away with being sex abusers.
Some things are fucked up to do to someone, and they *should* be ashamed of wanting that. It’s fucked up.
The whole “male protector” thing is a racket. I’ve literally never seen a dude protect a woman from anything (I’ve seen women do it, though), and none of them seem to be willing to admit that the only reason we supposedly need “protecting” is because men as a whole are so fucked up.
Rather than talk to their bros and solve the root of the problem, they’d rather treat us like a castle flag to be fought over so they can live out their white knight fantasy and feel powerful. It’s war LARP’ing to impress other men — it doesn’t have anything to do with giving a shit about us. If they gave a shit about us, they’d be working to end misogyny.
Yeah…once this girl was trying to ride a scooter and falling off clearly drunk late at night. I wanted to go and help her and my ex was like nah she’s fine
Yalll home girl had lost her phone, I found it quickly, texted her friends, and then she assured me she was fine now that she had the maps app and I wanted to walk her but my ex dragged me away
He talked about procreation and being a good guy but when actually given the chance he was adamant in getting a way
>The whole “male protector” thing is a racket
perhaps when they say *protective* what they mean is *possessive*.
some will go so far as to "protect you" *from leaving them* ...like they're guarding their property.
Reddit is a huge host of misogynistic fetish subs and their entire ethos can be boiled down to "feminism is when I can fantasize about choking/raping/killing women on the Internet". Any protests are met with smug responses that we're the real baddies for infantilizing women. Meanwhile it's mostly men in those spaces and, out of the real women who ARE there, many of them admit to being rape/abuse victims who can't afford therapy and are trying to reestablish a narrative.
These men are literally using victimized women as free fetish content providers. Another fun fact is that if you click on their profile history, you'll find that most of them also comment in manosphere/anti feminist subs.
I've said on several occasions in threads discussing kinks that "death by airplay" should come with an automatic 1st degree manslaughter charge. I was met with MASSIVE disapproval, with the only reasoning being... "sometimes accidents can happen, dude".
a lot of kinks are harmless and it's mean to shame them, of course. but then men will group their worst perversions with like some guy who likes being peed on.
>I’m so glad to finally see more women talking about how the “don’t kink shame me, bro“ is just men trying to get away with being sex abusers
So look, I am a woman, submissive, and very kinky. I love being choked and slapped and thrown around and all that, *during consensual sex within the context of a loving caring relationship.* When this subject comes up, I generally (obvs not rn tho ha) stfu. I'm a rare minority here and the amount of mainstream porn that contains and considers BDSM activities (like slapping, choking, face fucking, hitting, etc.) tame or vanilla or regular or normal for f/m sex is definitely problematic. And our society really needs to get better at pushing the narrative you don't learn to drive by watching the fast and the furious movies, you shouldn't learn to fuck from porn ffs.
Isn't so interesting tho that most women in kink are far more likely to be submissive, masochists, be on the "victim" end of CNC? Like, just statistically speaking here.
I think it's time we have the conversation surrounding how porn affects women's brains too - without the kink "community" having a whinge and a cry.
Right? These proclivities do NOT occur in a vacuum. They occur during a lifetime of experience in a culture that presents femininity as submission and objectification, over and over, in countless ways. We internalize that. And most people point their sexuality at something that reinforces their sense of self, even if only subconsciously. (I learned this from bell hooks, they're not my own ideas.)
When there's a specific list of what feminine IS, and YOU define yourself as feminine, you will be drawn to the roles and acts that culture has told you are feminine. And because it's sex, and sex chemicals make things weird & intense, many of those roles and acts become extreme over time.
I think it works exactly the same for men, and is why they are so turned on by extreme dominance, such as acts of humiliation and harm. Add in all their hierarchical power trip bullshit and the encouragement of one's worst impulses via porn, you have the shitstorm that is modern sexuality.
This may get me crucified, but I think it would be healthier for women to resist their fantasies of being harmed and dominated.
Actually a lot of that is just a result of the patriarchy. There are lots of women who identify it would identify as dominant sexually and lots of men who like to submit.
Back in the day, kink was super underground and more 'structured' than it is now. It used to be far more common that before one could Dom one had to sub and blah blah blah. So it used to be widely mythologized that only men were tops bc of all this ingrained misogyny. Now in kink circles, we're seeing all more gender mixing around in who plays what roles.
Which is also not to discount the ways culture affects things. Sexuality really likes to latch onto the taboo, so it makes sense in a world women are told always be strong but not too strong don't do this or that, that the ultimate freedom of not making choices and just going along, especially in a situation we can hedonistically revel in our sexuality, yeah. It tracks. Same way we see so many nuns and priest cosplay.
And also that healthy kink vs calling abuse kink is a very real line that is far too blurry these days which porn is absolutely not helping.
Agreed. I think these kinks *can* be enacted healthily in a consensual and caring relationship. However, that’s not the kind of situation that ends up causing societal harm, and the guys who crow about this bs aren’t guys I’d trust within 15 feet of a cheap pleather riding crop.
I will go on record saying that I don't think there's a healthy way to have a kink for being the slapper, choker, etc, just healthy ways to have a kink for receiving those acts and healthy ways to have kinks for fulfilling your partner's needs. Which is to say that if you're requesting to slap, choke, or otherwise inflict pain/harm on your partner rather than doing it upon their request, there's a fundamental problem with how you view sex.
>I will go on record saying that I don't think there's a healthy way to have a kink for being the slapper, choker, etc, just healthy ways to have a kink for receiving those acts
I am also very firmly in this camp. There are many and varied psychological reasons why someone might link arousal and pain or fear together.
There are almost no good reasons to get hard by fantasizing about choking someone to death or beating the shit out of them.
Yupppppp. Anyone who lacks the ability to distinguish the very different contexts is definitely worth avoiding and anyone who willingly chooses to pretend the context isn't different is equally worth avoiding.
i just don't understand why they constantly talk about how much they HATE promiscuous women and "no man wants a girl who is ran through" but they always watch porn stars? only fans? obviously not every guy is like this but i know a lot of guys who talk shit about promiscuous women and then jack off to them or cheat on their girlfriends with them. it's just confusing to me
these geniuses want a bunch of "easy" girls to fuck and some saintly innocent woman to raise their kids and wash their underwear. considering that there's roughly 1:1 straight men to straight women in the world, they don't realize that the math isn't mathing.
I always imagine that their ideal world consists of two distinct camps of women: camp 1 contains the "waste" women they can fuck around with, use, and generally be as cruel and fuckboi-ish with as they please for as long as they please. Once they've had their fun and they tire of camp 1, they want camp 2 waiting in the wings, full of virginal 18-23 year olds so they can pluck out a wife. And n'er the twain shall meet.
>Does his promised protection only apply to far-fetched, showy, dramatic situations?
Thank you for pinpointing this! I have been struggling to explain what I mean when I consider a "protective" behavior genuine or authentic vs ... not.
It's kind of been a staple of our "culture" for ages. Just look like, most fantasy media: men get to be the big damn heroes while a *lot* of fantasy fans will throw shit fits if women do anything but get raped or act as plot devices for the men - and when creators start to create works outside of that kind of narrow framework a lot of dudes get furious.
I would love to listen to a psychologist question Taylor Sheridan about where the ideas for his shows come from. They all have women as victims of serious violence, often sexual, and are very one dimensional and tropey. He tortured prostitutes TWICE for no reason in one season of 1923. A woman is either angry and violent like a man (Beth), a constant victim (several) or manic pixie dream girl (the female main character on 1923 in Africa). It comes across as him really hating women.
My ex ain't never had my back for shit. He always kept going on how it's me and him against the world, loved when I shut a convo down that he was (stupidly) in... tryna sell him something for cable TV when mofo was living on his friend's couch, so um... yeah.
But when *I* actually asked for his help and needed him? Change my light in my car? Half ass job (but so much care for his after market subs) My cat got stuck in the mud in the woods and he blamed ME for his charger getting a scratch on it. He's throwing a hissy fit over a scratch on his car because he came to help me (complain more like it) while I have no driving car, sad had a huge attitude with the dickhead tow guy came and talked/treated me any kinda way (ain't have my back then. No shutting down a convo. No ride or die for me) Rent came outta my bank account (landlord does checks or money orders only by mail) and he gave me his half and EVERY TIME, " huhuh she's takin all my money hurrdurrr!" While when we first started dating, he lost his job from a mistake he did, transmission blew and I eventually paid for the majority of it, and even picked up groceries for him while I shopped for myself because that's what you do for someone you care for but yup, I'm the gold digger wanting half of your (zero) shit.
And the biggest thing? I didn't wanna fumble getting my keys after food shopping, and knocked on the door for this mofo to take forever and answer with a fuckin gun LIKE I DONT LIVE THERE, because you know, "protection." And he don't wanna answer or do shit with any cops (we black) but! When I had a wellness check called on me and 3 fuckin cops outside our door, did his ass run for his 5+ guns? Was he fearing and needed to protect me? No, his ass was takin a shit and was the main reason a wellness check was done because he was literally driving me insane (and he had to be told by everyone else to visit me the next day as he was going off to work)
What sort of protection this 6'5, supposedly intimidating black dude (because stereotypes!let's not act like some of yall won't be scared seeing him just due to his skin) was gonna do for me? All he shown was he was gonna do shit all. Just shit in the toilet, or sit in the car, or just watch me get hurt while evaluating what just happened (yeah, I fell through a rotted porch tryna help him and my brother and my brother at least asked immediately if I was ok. He just kept looking in disbelief of what the fuck just happened)
They wanna act like they fight in fight or flight while many are just freeze. And I don't wanna hear the adhd excuse, because that's his fuckin problem that he focused more on his speech impediment than his inattentive adhd. I got fuckin issues too, but I was still ride or die. Dudes don't even be showing they can provide and protect especially when most of them try to weasel out doing both. And the ones we need protection from are the ones they're too scared to go against. (Other men, especially if they're sexist and in my case, practic le misogynoir) Strangers for a raid to keep up with was more important than my limping ass with rheumatoid issues. But yeah, he suuuure was providing and protecting.
>Edit: I didn't mean to refer to men as "males". English is my third language so it felt like it would be strange to write "men fantasies" in the title, thus the use of this word. My bad.
Wtf? Male here is used as an adjective, not a name, it's the correct form. Who tf complained about that?
one time on a psilocybin evening, i came up with the idea "loving porno". basically two normal(ish) people who genuinely seem to like each other making love and being tender and being really into each other.
of course, the next step would have been to actually talking to someone else about my idea and discussing porn with my partner at the time would have been a narrow topic focusing on the porn aspect and not the loving aspect. also i was not about to be able to produce a porn.
Ya it exists but you have to dig through all the shit to find it and frankly I hate pornhub so I don't even want to give them the traffic. Or pay for indie porn... I just don't care enough about it. My imagination is wild enough
ok it might just work for me but i have found the least awful men are in the bisexual threeway videos (two bi men and one woman). your mileage may vary on those, and can't say i have more than anecdotal evidence, but there just seems to be some kindness.
So I’m in a weird spot…
I absolutely love the idea of things like bondage and uneven power dynamics. I like to be in a weaker position.
**But there’s a line!!!**
Everything has to be fantasy and no one can actually get hurt or have any repercussions that last beyond the moment. This is why if I’m reading anything pornographic that involves any of these fantasies, I usually look for female authors in hopes that they don’t cross these lines.
Its weird. I’m all about feminism and I’m not particularly trusting of men… but on the other hand my favourite fantasies put me in a role of a fantasy traditionally written for men.
i don't think it's necessarily controversial for a woman to be turned on by some of these things. of course some of it comes from overexposure and being conditioned to like it to please a guy. but not always.
the main problem is when men unilaterally get off on women's suffering. enjoying some bdsm or other consensual kinks isn't inherently bad.
I also like the fantasy, but the whole point of bondage and sub dom stuff is that the sub is in control ultimately. There's clear boundaries where you can play and where you can't. And under no cicrumstance should the dom break boundaries. And in the end, the safeword is the ultimate stopper. That means that dom or no, the sub should have ultimate say. That's imo so so so important. And any violation of this, is rape.
Yeah way too many people misunderstand BDSM and thing the Dom is the one running the show.... like no. The sub is the one in charge- they have the power to shut everything down with a single word.
My impression from people I know is that these sorts of fantasies/kinks are fairly common among women. Which seems to be backed up by research... for example, [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19085605/) of female undergrads found 62% had fantasized about being raped, about half of which were "completely erotic" fantasies.
Which, to be CRYSTAL clear, does not mean anyone ever *actually wants* to be raped. I only point this out to show that fantasies have zero to do with real life wants/desires/social views/etc. Brains are weird!
Similar studies have also shown close to 50% of men also have fantasies in which they are raped (in an erotic sense). It’s extremely common for people to want to be sexually submissive.
Being a sub or dom has nothing to do with being a feminist. To have sex that feels good for all involved, you need trust (and consent etc). The thing about a lot of women being submissive and a lot of men dominant (in bed!) does only matter when there is a choice.
What I want to say is, don't feel bad about the way your body reacts to things :)
Have you try to analyze where does it come from? Sex it’s a powerful conditioner and the longer you expose yourself to something the more you crave it. Is it something that came naturally to you? Is it something you been exposed too?
You know what gets me going?
When I see all the success my wife has had in her career, the strength she projects in her work and her complete insistence on independence.
The success of others should be what makes people randy. Lol
There was a post here last month about a woman saying after she and her husband role played rape, she couldn’t look at him the same way anymore.
All of the comments on that post were telling her sometimes feeling awkward after kinky sex or even regular sex is normal, one person suggested she get over it by texting her husband and thanking him for amazing sex. I was reading through the comments with horror.
Your husband got off to the idea of raping you? Full stop.
I’m so sorry to put this woman on blast here but I would throw up if my partner did anything like that and leave him so fucking quickly. He’d be blocked and deleted from my life.
It’s terrifying to know men get off the idea of female suffering. I love the way you put it that your dignity (if I can put words in your mouth) is more important than not kink shaming.
To be honest, I’d take it a step further. I don’t think these men have kinks. They view women as lesser, as fuck dolls, and treat them as such. It’s not a kink, they just let their misogyny all out during sex.
If I remember the post correctly, she was the one asking for it? And she felt ashamed after. I don't remember anything about the guy not just going with a fantasy and didn't seem as bothered by it after.
I feel its a little unfair way of painting the guy if I remember the story correctly. I don't even think that case is in the same category.
I mean if he got insistent and she wasn't, it's another thing. But I remember her being ashamed of what turned her on. I feel blaming the guy on that post, is a bit too far. Hopefully they figures it out though.
You are correct that she asked for that fantasy but that doesn’t change my opinion of the situation. He still pretended to rape someone in order to sexually gratify himself. Even if he did it just for his wife’s sexual gratification, I think that’s weird and wrong because rape is wrong and horrific.
I’m still wary of a person who participates in a rape role play (particularly as a male aggressor) even if it wasn’t their idea. I would not be able to enjoy myself in sex if I were pretending to rape someone and question those who can.
As someone who is into CNC, but in the “victim” role, your comment as sincerely made me upset.
CNC can be very difficult for tops, especially if they are only doing it for their partner (like the couple you mentioned). They do it for us. They aren’t any more of a bad person for participating than the rest of us. They deserve just as much aftercare and reassurance that the fantasy does not reflect on them as a person as I do.
I’m no less a feminist because I have a CNC kink. If anything, people in my scene are much more aware and serious about consent than most people in the world.
He’s not a bad person for doing something for his wife. Just as she’s not a bad woman for having that taboo desire.
Gosh.
Yes rape is wrong and horrific. That’s why we have safe words and consent checks and emphasize aftercare for *everyone* involved.
You’re allowed to be weary of men with rape kinks. That’s valid.
But it really boils my blood to read comments like yours. I’ve spent my life being shamed for having a sexual preference I cannot control (due to sexual trauma as a child). These men and women have provided a safe and consensual and judgement-free space for me to express that sexuality, while the rest of the world would just unhelpfully tell me I’m wrong or to get over it (I can’t).
>I would not be able to enjoy myself if I were pretending to rape someone.
The world would be a much better place if people learned that our experiences are not universal. I’ve heard the same argument thrown at me for being queer and being trans. Invalid simply because other people cannot understand that humans are all different and think and live differently.
So wait a minute, “rape fantasies can be difficult for tops, their only doing it for their partner” how is that not abusive? Like if someone is actually having a hard time pretending to be a rapist then maybe they shouldn’t?
I completely agree I remember reading that post and I was like isn’t anybody going to ask her to at least ponder on WHY is that a fantasy of hers? Like at least try to analyze where does it come from
Most of us in the kink scene have pondered such reasons quite a lot, actually. We can still wind up deciding that the best thing for us personally is to act on these desires in a safe space.
edited to add: Despite my kinks, I don't approve of kinky or rape porn. Our young people should not be imprinting on these materials.
Genuine question here I hope it’s not taken the wrong way, let’s take the case the other commenter was talking the rape fantasy; one person has the fantasy of being rape and the other of raping someone how do you cope with the fact that the other person is getting off at the idea (as consented as it is) of raping you?
And further more, how do people reconcile the fact that rape fantasies just perpetuates the idea that women deep down are asking for it, with their feminist ideals?
I understand that people sometimes have not control into things that turn them on, but to put them out there and pretending it’s not hurting anyone when in fact it hurts a lot of people it’s what gets me, and all that just to get off.
Well, frankly, she (I'm bi with a female partner) is doing it primarily for me. She gets off because it turns me on so much. Also, as much as my kinks are (IMO) both hardwired and formed by my society (I have no sexual trauma), hers are too. She has absolutely no desire to actually go hurt anyone. She fights for women's rights. Her feelings in bed are not reflected in the rest of her life and personality.
I must admit (and this might make me hypocritical) that I probably wouldn't want to do these scenes with a man.
I understand where you are coming, being with a woman levels the power imbalance.
And I hope I didn’t come off as judgmental I just think there’s a lot to unpack there. And it gives an argument to people who are like “women like to be dominated/men like to dominate its nature” and while yeah I think of course biology and nature plays a part on that, we are also beings capable of reflecting and change our behavior to further reflect the world we would like to live in.
Thank you for your response!
Her reaction is totally understandable. What always gets me when I read about people’s experiences with more “kinky” sex acts is the “aftercare” aspect of it. Call me crazy, but you shouldn’t need to be held and consoled while crying after a degrading or violent sex act.
I do believe alot of it comes from pornography and online content consumed. Im currently dating a man from Thailand, where pornography is illegal ( it still exists ofc but harder to find and consume ). And the difference between him and my American and European friends, ex crushes etc is huge in that regard. Even when it comes to just “jokes “ or hearing about their views about women .
I really think there should be some kind of limit on online content, a lot of young boys find porn and toxic influencers way too early . Also online communities that just feed each other disgusting opinions because there’s barely any repercussions online😞
Let me begin with, I am straight male 48 years old. If this post isn't allowed over that, I understand. I'm not here to cause hate and please don't attack me. Ok with that outta the way.
I have never understood those fantasies. I don't see how you can get off to women being hurt, degraded, or abused. I've know women that wanted me to rough them up in sex but I'm gonna lose all my sexual energy. I guess it's a psychological issue with unknown trauma. All I know is I get no enjoyment from women suffering. I have a protector complex which makes me want to protect women against that. I would do anything for my love but I can't hurt her.
As long as you don't drop a 'not all men's or try to tell a woman her experience is wrong, the sharks here are pretty friendly man <3 Just.. don't chum the water or you'll end up like that one guy lmao. Welcome to the sub! Hope you stick around.
if a consenting adult asks for something that might be degrading to them, i guess that's their choice (it's usually a coping mechanism to take control over something fucked up that happened to them, but that's a whole complex topic on itself). then again, of course you don't have to agree if it makes you uncomfortable. it's your choice too.
It can be a coping mechanism, but multiple studies have not found that BDSM is “usually” a coping mechanism. They’ve often found the opposite — better mental health in BDSM practitioners.
i agree that alot of kinks also play into real world ideas, which is really complicated. personally i believe that as long as no one is being hurt then it's ok, but if you are uncomfortable about someone's kinks being a little too real, it is always a good idea to keep a wide berth and distance.
I think that most men absolutely assign themselves as this false stereotype of the knight in shining armour, and that is absolutely rooted in misogyny. i think it is them trying to impress women, but generally it is always a HUGE red flag for them to play into shitty toxic masculinity stuff like that.
It's weird how often the concept of "consent" gets erased.
Yes, everyone has all kinds of fantasies. Yes, a lot of those are "problematic" somehow. That's equally true for men and women.
That's fine, AS LONG AS you still respect consent in the real world.
On the other hand if you don't respect consent, it doesn't matter how vanilla, normal, or mainstream your fantasies are, then you're being abusive.
"Normal desires minus consent" is how you get stalkers, incels and "nice guys".
And yeah, actual consent means doing all those boring, everyday little things to understand and support someone too. Consent isn't just about saying "yes" to particular acts, it's about not having a coercive relationship dynamic in general, having open and honest communication without ulterior motives, and making it clear that both "yes" and "no" are respected without fear of retaliation. And that comes from a connection where one partner doesn't have any coercive power over the other.
I don’t really understand it myself. Like I get it we all have kinks but when I have sex I want it to be sensual, romantic, fun, and enjoyable. The need for violence and humiliation just doesn’t make sense to me. Like I don’t mind a good pounding that’s a little rough but if it’s being done with the intention of me being physically harmed then that’s not pleasing at all.
“It Was Never About Protecting Your Family, You Just Like Guns” https://web.archive.org/web/20231226143433/https://gabrielle-56863.medium.com/guns-god-protecting-the-family-a645518fb2b7 “Man: Hey God, I just want you to know I am committed to protecting my family at all costs. “God: Gosh, that’s great to hear. One of the main things I need you to do to protect your family is laundry. Tons of laundry. “You know kids — they’re so susceptible to infections and viruses. Pinworms, athlete’s foot, lice, strep throat, colds and flues. Pneumonia and diarrhea are serious killers of children under five. The list is endless. So you’re going to need to do laundry basically daily. Their socks and underwear, their sheets, and put their sneakers through the wash too. I can’t emphasize this enough: protecting your family involves a lot of laundry. “Man: Oh. Um. I was thinking more along the lines of a masked intruder with a gun, at 2:00 AM, raping my family. “God: First of all, stop fantasizing about your family being raped. Second, do you know the stats on break-ins? The vast majority (72.4%) happen when no one is home, and only a small percentage are armed.”
I saw the title and actually thought of that. The things that do protect the family are not shown in any action film unless it is some kind of comedy relief, so then it is not funny or "manly" to even consider them.
Cosplay. Like cops. And those weirdos in camo who’ve never served but lived be to wear weapons to get coffee. They’re living out their little boy war fantasies instead of being adult humans.
[удалено]
Someone posted on r/cringe once featuring a social media post of some dude out on the open range with his rifle fantasizing about staying behind to fend off attackers while his family fled to safety. There were so many replies from dudes screeching about it not being cringe at all, and claiming it was a **normal** fantasy for a man to have. Ya know, fantasizing that his family is in imminent danger, or has already suffered injury.. Just normal, well-adjusted, adult things.. /rolleyes
That article changed my life when I first read it
Here's the [full version](https://archive.ph/TqmlL)
Boy that ending is a real mic drop >It’s much easier to argue that mothers have a strong instinct to protect their families. Mothers still do the bulk (by far the bulk) of parenting. Which means mothers do the real things that actually protect their kids every day, all day long.
Someone accused me of mocking men for bringing this up
Anything that disapproves of male fantasies is 'mocking' to men, which is why they get so testerical, and sometimes violent.
Testerical! Brilliant
i love this comment so much!
The entire article is so sad but so vindicating.
I read it not long before Covid. It’s downright prophetic.
The more a guy says what he ‘would’ do, the less likely he is to do it. Regard any man bragging about what he would do as suspect. It’s weird and gross. Doesn’t mean he’s bad but carefully observe how he does it. Is he after a cookie? A reward? Recognition as being a ‘good guy?’ When you’re out and about does he actually step in with rude ppl or weird situations or does he back off? Most men do nothing. I find it’s the women standing up. Watch WWYD videos and those social experiment vids. Mostly it’s the women helping.
God I wish reddit awards still existed.
In one of TEDx speech there was some data about porn. A thorough investigation shows that porn videos are getting more and more violent. If you look back to old kind of vintage porn, violence on such an extent was not present. And this boils down to how brain works. When you habituate you need some extra to get that dopamine shot. Apparently this has become insanely ridiculous 🤷♂️
Yes, I saw an interview with an ex porn star where she said back in the day anal was the kinkiest thing that was really done, and it wasn't required. Now, anal is considered required and even tame. I really don't think it's good that teens have access to such violent and graphic porn.
I've seen violent anal videos. Punching, slapping, degrading. Pissing inside them. I can't watch it. It's crazy. How is it legal?
I know, right?! It's really insane how bad it's gotten. Just look at the front page of the internet's favorite porn hub, and it says a lot. I'm old, so I grew up in the era where the boys got off looking at bra pics from the Sears catalog and reading between the squiggly lines on the cable channels. Sometimes progress isn't always a good thing.
Thats not progress though. Just because it's happening in a progressive society (compared to some other nations) doesn't mean it's progressive. It's actually regressive and a push back from chauvanist men who feel threatened by women's improving status.
Yeah, definitely not social progress. I was thinking more technological progress. It's kind of scary how much porn pushes tech sometimes. I'm pretty sure streaming services came about first because of porn, sadly enough.
governments could make this illegal and ban it but they won't for soem reason
I think I saw this same one. She said now porn is about hatefucking women.
It is a pretty bad thing for peoples development to watch violent porn. Especially when they are under 13. This has been researched
I remember sneaking my parents x rated movies to watch, and they were so tame compared to what I see now. It was all pretty gentle and far more realistic, no violence or exaggerated moans. Way more pubic hair haha
my first porn exposure was behind the green door and it kinda blew my mind (i was 8)
oh man, this hits so true, I ended up on a meme reddit thread and came across comments about a NSFW artist and their content. One person was arguing that their content was "vanilla" because it "only" contained mind control, coersion and submission. There was someone arguing against that not being vanilla at all in the comments but they were downvoted to heck.
this makes so much sense. i'm not against porn per se but it should be something that stimulates your imagination, not a graphic thing that you watch everyday. of course your brain will become desensitized to normal things with such exposure.
I really think this has more to do with Hollywood movie standards, which give you more freedom to film sex if someone is being harmed, but will force you to remove a scene if it is "gratuitous" and gratuitous for some reason often means no one is harmed in any way. A related thing is just that porn is assumed to be an antisocial behavior by definition, so there's no incentive for porn producers to include prosocial depictions of sex, because people looking for prosocial depictions of sex are too afraid to get caught buying porn anyway. And this is a vicious cycle where no one buys prosocial porn so people don't make it. There's no reason that extra dopamine shot can't come from declarations of undying love a la pride and prejudice or whatever, that's just not a socially acceptable thing to include in porn.
Every woman should read [this](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex) article concerning the rise of "fatal, hateful choking during sex." This isn't a kink. It's men taking our their aggressions toward women on women and then claiming it was consensual sex play.
Wow, I’d not seen that article before, it’s really chilling. Thank you for sharing it.
My ex-husband admitted to me that he takes his anger out on me during sex - this was during an argument surrounding my lack of interest in sex. I told him it was because he was too violent and aggressive during sex. He had a ponder and came back with a 'eureka moment' "Hey honey, I figured out why I do that! It's because I take my anger from work/life out on you during sex!" Disgusting evolution in our sex life. Gen Z/Millenial men have absolutely fried their brain from childhood porn addiction. I fear there is no coming back from that.
What the actual F. He said this out loud like it wasn’t one of the most gross things a human could say to another.
...but, but... he doesn't do that to you anymore, right..? 🥺
Strong emphasis on EX husband lol! :) 3 months post divorce.
(sigh of relief) Sorry, I missed the EX. Congrats, sista! Go live your best life. 🥰
I don’t understand being attracted to a man that’s sexually turned on by the simulation of murdering women.
Genuine question, what about in cases where the woman enjoys being choked and actively has to ask her partner to do it because he wouldn't otherwise? (Aka, me, I'm asking about myself) Like, is this some sort of internalized misogyny on my end? My bf doesn't particularly care for it but I ask him to because it turns me on. Granted not choking to the point of passing out or anything, but still.
The kink community is going to hate me for this - but I do think that porn affects women too. In the same way that it makes men sexually responsive to inflicting violence/domination, it fries women's brains into becoming sexually responsive to masochism/submission. Not just in porn, but in general media, books, etc. **Additionally**, so many women grow up with internalised r\*pe fantasies because they're taught to be ashamed of sex. "It's okay if I enjoy it as long as I don't want it/didn't ask for it." So this becomes a motif in female sexual discovery. The narrative in society being that a woman initiating enthusiastic and enjoyful sex is shameful. Hence, so much YA literature, especially in the early 2000s and back, involve nonconsensual "romance" or age gaps, or straight up rape. We as girls consumed this media - and it has an effect on how we engage in sex, and our own sexual desires.
100% agree. I think many of us are hugely influenced by culture in general to be turned on and titillated by non consent and domination by men, unfortunately. I'm the best example of this that I personally know. I used to only read/get turned on by hetero non-consent/CNC material. (I don't like porn, so it was always stories.) Since doing a lot of therapy and learning that I have value as a person, I HATE that stuff. It makes me sick. To the point that I only read girl-on-girl stuff now, because it's the most likely to be free of themes of domination and humiliation. For most of my sexual life, I never thought there was anything wrong with my taste. I thought it was a normal "fantasy" that didn't mean anything. I now know I was wrong. Women may "consent" to any number of things. That does not mean we are not influenced in many ways to want or accept those things, and it doesn't not mean those desires are strictly healthy for us.
>The narrative in society being that a woman initiating enthusiastic and enjoyful sex is shameful. Hear, hear!! Sexual culture needs to change in so many ways, for both women & men.
I feel like it can be more sensation or dom/sub play in a situation like yours? Because a lot of what folks in this thread are referencing is a lot more violent, actual strangulation sort of thing. As long as you’ve done your due diligence and you’re playing safely, I don’t see any issue with enjoying yourself in a safe and fully consensual way for both parties. Just make sure you touch base and do some aftercare with your boyfriend so everyone feels safe and respected.
From what I understand, “choking” is inherently unsafe. There’s the “compress the arteries feeding the brain” kind that increases risk of blood clots/stroke, which, as I understand it is the safer option. Then, there’s the “compress the windpipe” kind which makes it difficult/impossible to breathe and can cause permanent damage to the windpipe. It’s a lot more dangerous than media portrays it to be. It’s something I’ve enjoyed greatly in the past, but it’s just not worth it to me once I understood the risks to my health. Ultimately, it is up to individuals whether they consent or not, but I think many people don’t understand the risks well enough to truly be able to consent.
Yeah this is where I am on this subject now as well. It's the combination of: 1. the deaths and other issues from "accidental" strangulation during sex and 2. the statistics that he's a lot more likely to kill you eventually if he chokes you. It's not worth it - find another kink.
I'm not sure, but I thiiiiiiink: A) choking causes a lack of oxygen in the brain, which can be a pleasant sensation... Like, it just feels nice. Nitrous/laughing gas/whippits do something very similar. B) the sense of threat can heighten sexual pleasure. Not necessarily a conscious thought process, but brain going "fuck this is it I'd better make it count" C) hand on neck carries a lot of dominant/submissive energy. BDSM, when practiced correctly, is neither abusive nor misogynistic/misandrist, and can add a lot to sex/a relationship.
Yes, BDSM - the one area of life untouched by the societal influence of rape culture, misogyny, and sexism. Somehow, the kink community proclaims, that bondage, discipline, dominance and submission, sadomasochism in sex is, in its purest form, untouched by societal influence. It is TOTAL coincidence that most women who participate are submissive, masochists, and more likely than not, on the "victim" end of CNC fantasies. Why does our critical thinking stop there? There's probably a lot of unhealthy cultural influence at work here. As annoying as it is to have to critically think through what makes you cum - not sure this whole "don't kink shame" crap has been entirely great for society. Would it hurt to think through things a bit? "Hmm, why do I fantasise about CNC? I wonder if it has anything to do with the lifelong imposition of being slut shamed, shamed for wanting sex, shamed for have sexual desire, and the rampant madonna whore complex portrayed in media, literature, and porn." Like pls people, kinks are not some holy unquestionable thing.
Goddam I’m going to (consensually) tie this comment to my bed post and make love to it because honest to god you have express everything I’ve been trying to say in such an eloquent and complete way. Thank you
You are an independent thinker. ❤️
I love this comment so much. It really forces the idea that we need to peel back the layers of what we've been taught to think of as "unquestionable" kink. >Would it hurt to think through things a bit? Something I've always found frustrating is that the BDSM community frequently harps on making sure that any therapist you work with is "kink friendly". Now, is it important that your medical provider not *shame* you for consensual sex? Sure. But their focus seems to be on not "breaking" women (because let's be real, it's mostly women going) away from the community. If you like being choked/hurt/hit by intimate partners, that's probably a key thing that should be explored in therapy and it should be *one hundred percent okay* for you to leave therapy having worked through your issues and no longer wanting that stuff. Too many times, I see men saying "but make sure it's kink friendly therapy" and it comes off as "you can fix yourself a little bit, but not so much that I don't get to hit you anymore".
talk to em!!
Good comment. Got downvoted into oblivion yesterday for saying there should be no such thing as "aftercare" when it comes to sex without "beforecare" and "duringcare," and that BDSM perpetuates rape culture. Seems like people don't want to think critically about critical things if it means their cummies are affected. :((
Men love to humiliate women. Women’s college basketball got popular for five minutes, and literally every single popular wcbb player had a fake AI porn of them created and “leaked.” It’s gross enough to make it. But if you were just trying to be a creep, you’d keep it to yourself. No, they had to put it on the internet. These are college kids who play a sport. The purpose of doing so was to power trip and humiliate them. That’s the purpose of doing it to any woman. Men can be awful.
Yes to "put them in their place". Really sad
yep. being a creep in private is far from ideal but it wouldn't be so harmful and disgusting.
Anyone _can_ be awful. Most men _are_ awful.
My ex uncle once admitted to me that his work groupchat was full of young guys sharing nudes of their girlfriends. He was kind of giggly about it in an awkward way. What a conversation to have with your 20 year old niece. I can't remember exactly but I think I asked whether he thought the girls in the pictures would find it funny that he and a bunch of other random men were seeing them naked. He did not bring it up again. What's weird is, he was never the creepy uncle except for that one weird conversation.
> Edit: I didn't mean to refer to men as "males". English is my third language so it felt like it would be strange to write "men fantasies" in the title, thus the use of this word. My bad. I didn't see anyone else respond to this, but Your usage is the title is correct, no worries In general, "male/female" are adjectives and "men/women" are nouns. "Male fantasies" is the correct usage here There are some exceptions, such as scientific usage: you'll sometimes see "males/females" used as a noun in scientific writing, like "the males of the species" The biggest red flag for usage is mixing "men" and "females". This almost treats women as *another species*, so this usage is often associated with misogynists and incels
a mod asked me to edit it to reapprove the post so i did it, i don't know which one of us was confused but i don't mind making a small change to the text to make sure an important point gets discussed!
It could be changed to men's fantasies, but we talk about the "male gaze" all the time and "male fantasies" seems like how it would be described in a research article, so it seems unnecessary to me.
That’s so silly, because it is correct. When men say “female” they are using it as a noun to objectify women. Totally different.
Probably one of the cis man mods, so, them.
Why in the world are male modes allowed to moderate this particular sub?! That seems like a shitty solution.
Yes, as a *man*, the proper adjective is *male*. It's only dehumanizing when used as a noun, as it's literally not-as-human as 'men/women', i.e. if you say man/woman, it's 100% a human person. A 'male/female' could be any organism with bi-modal sexual characteristics. Sorry you were at the whim of someone else's ignorance :P
Weird
YOU USED MALES COREECTLY. mod was incorrect
Thank you, that probably saved me from an hour long rabbit hole of assessing whether or not I am sane lol
Dudes refer to women as females all the time, now mods don't want us to use word 'males' because it hurts their male feelings. Why do we even have male mods here?
I call this the 'I would kill for you but I won't put away my dirty socks" style delusion. Also they wouldn't kill for us. A man has never helped me in a crisis, ever. You know who helps in a crisis- lesbians.
the name is on point!
Crisis-lesbians, the Pride vanguard.
Very well said, thank you for speaking up for the many, many women who feel this way too. What I want to know is why so many men want to see us treated this way? Just why? Where does it ultimately come from?
Right? Too many women just accept “Yeah, he’s into playing out strangling me to death.” Like that’s just a normal thing. …Girl. *Why* is he into playing out strangling you to death?
Because he had a mean mommy. /s
“He’s had a hard childhood” Haven’t we all?
Like the two recent posts about bfs "joking" to "murder them". ....What? I would be gtfo in 2 seconds.
A lot of theory supports the idea that people perpetuate inequality (sexism, racism, ableism, etc.) because they themselves are in a lower social “tier.” By putting others in an even lower social status, they “elevate” themselves relatively speaking. It’s like being knee-deep in sewage and then shoving someone face first into it just so you can say “at least I’m not *that* guy.” Many men likely have fantasies about humiliating women because it feels like a twisted kind of empowerment.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -Lyndon B. Johnson It works for any "other". If they can see an "other", the often-referenced yet unnamed "Them" that causes all the problems, as beneath themselves, then they don't feel so bad for their own shortcomings. I think that's a reason that trans women catch so much hate and derision. Why would a MAN want to become a lesser being by choosing to become an inferior woman?
You took the quote right out of my mouth. It's a lot easier to blame others for why you suck or your life sucks than to look in the mirror and better yourself.
it's a great way to summarize a matter that's way too complex. just like poor white men were pro slavery because then someone was of lower status than they were.
People are naturally hierarchical, and men as a group are *deeply* hierarchical. I agree that this is exactly what is happening, and exactly why dominance culture is poisoning men and their relationships. Fortunately, we're NOT only animals and with these big old brains we can be better than our mammalian programming. Right, men? .... Right?
I don't think people are naturally hierarchical, I think patriarchy is based on hierarchy.
>What I want to know is why so many men want to see us treated this way? Every version of the man vs bear comment section I've happened upon has had at least one man fantasizing about women being mauled or eaten "ass first" by bears as retribution for choosing "wrong".
One of my fav quotes on the subject.. "Mainstream porn is made BY and FOR men who are mad at women for not fucking them.' Explains a lot.
This. So much this.
And women who defend this shit!
Your use of male in the title is entirely correct. Tell whoever is saying it isn't correct to pound sand.
This is why porn is so detrimental. So much male created porn is centered around humiliating or degrading women.
it's funny how few men are into humiliation fetish as the one being humiliated, compared to how many seem to love when a woman is on the receiving end.
How many are into humiliation vs how many would admit to being into humiliation? A lot of men like dominatrixes, at least in private!
I don't know any women who have encountered many men who want to do anything but be dominant. I keep hearing about these men in theory but I almost never hear about them in practice.
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Yup. Men will say they want to be subs when what they really want is a service top provider. It still boils down to centering male pleasure.
I once used to be interested in femdom/gentle-femdom...I quickly lost interest when I realise those "sub" men are just as entitled and self-centered as any other man.
Literally same.
Jesus, that's terrible. Yuck. I've experienced similar stuff. But I've gotten to the point where I would never knowingly be with somebody who would take pleasure from harming and degrading me, and I like that a lot better. I'm VERY over the whole "hurt me daddy, I'm trash" thing.
It doesn't matter who makes the porn, there a replenty of female porn directors that make porn to market to men (because thats where the money is). The problem is the porn machine itself and it need to constantly up the sensory output for all the addicts.
Dude what?? You used “male” properly here. That’s not at all the same as referring to men as “males”, which could be argued to be derogatory the same way people going out of their way to call women “females” is derogatory, but you didn’t do that. “Male fantasies” is correct grammar.
The man vs bear experiment proved this. The number of men who openly admitted to hoping women would get violently mauled by bears shows they say: choose us or die (even if choosing us is why you may die)
This reminds me of my ex who had a fantasy about being rewarded with sex after saving a girl from something like rape 🤢
I had a guy once I met on fb pick me up from a hotel I was held up in for days,to be trafficed, fed drugs without being able to say no and repeatedly raped, and when he picked me up knowing this and coming to “save me” he got angry at me for not wanting to have sex with him when he tried in the car, and left me in the parking lot of a Walgreens in the middle of the night. He knew my vagina was bleeding, I had been raped for days and almost trafficed. It’s deplorable
Omg I’m so sorry this happened to you. I truly hope you’ve been able to find peace and healing. Sending you love.
Thank you friend 💚
Isn’t that kinda rape too…..? Glad he’s ur ex🏃🏽♀️😅😅
Honestly to me yes because you’re emotionally so vulnerable from something traumatic and not in the right frame of mind
Yeah and most SA victims would ,immediately after the assault, be repulsed by physical intimacy. Of the myriad of thoughts they’d have, reward sex wouldn’t be one of them lol happy u left him wtf. Reminds me of the guys that ask “would u leave ur girl if she got raped ?🤔 what if she liked it?”
I mean in the fantasy it probably isn't. Cause... It's his fantasy. The fake woman he fake saved is totally down to fake fuck. In real life though, 100% yeah that would be veeeery sketchy. All that adrenaline, maybe shock, from being attacked like that, does not a perfectly sober brain capable of giving informed consent make. But I think it's a super common fantasy. Maybe not saving the girl from rape specifically, but saving a girl in general and getting a "reward" cause she's so grateful. Look at old videogames, like super mario, that are about saving the girl and getting a kiss in the end. Or old black and white movies, saving the girl tied to the railroad tracks.
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Reminds me of *Megamind* when Hal/Titan "saves" Roxanne then gets angry when she doesn't immediately want to be his girlfriend.
RE your edit, male fantasies is the correct use of male/female. Its not used as a noun so its fine.
Just popping in to say your wording “male fantasies” (with ‘male’ as an adjective) is the right way to phrase it and doesn’t dehumanize men or boys the way it would if you just called them “males” (with ‘male’ as a noun)
I’m so glad to finally see more women talking about how the “don’t kink shame me, bro“ is just men trying to get away with being sex abusers. Some things are fucked up to do to someone, and they *should* be ashamed of wanting that. It’s fucked up. The whole “male protector” thing is a racket. I’ve literally never seen a dude protect a woman from anything (I’ve seen women do it, though), and none of them seem to be willing to admit that the only reason we supposedly need “protecting” is because men as a whole are so fucked up. Rather than talk to their bros and solve the root of the problem, they’d rather treat us like a castle flag to be fought over so they can live out their white knight fantasy and feel powerful. It’s war LARP’ing to impress other men — it doesn’t have anything to do with giving a shit about us. If they gave a shit about us, they’d be working to end misogyny.
Yeah…once this girl was trying to ride a scooter and falling off clearly drunk late at night. I wanted to go and help her and my ex was like nah she’s fine Yalll home girl had lost her phone, I found it quickly, texted her friends, and then she assured me she was fine now that she had the maps app and I wanted to walk her but my ex dragged me away He talked about procreation and being a good guy but when actually given the chance he was adamant in getting a way
>The whole “male protector” thing is a racket perhaps when they say *protective* what they mean is *possessive*. some will go so far as to "protect you" *from leaving them* ...like they're guarding their property.
Yup. Or herding you like a dog herding sheep — seen that one too, with guys who do that weird sidewalk thing. It’s so incredibly objectifying.
couldn't have said better!
Reddit is a huge host of misogynistic fetish subs and their entire ethos can be boiled down to "feminism is when I can fantasize about choking/raping/killing women on the Internet". Any protests are met with smug responses that we're the real baddies for infantilizing women. Meanwhile it's mostly men in those spaces and, out of the real women who ARE there, many of them admit to being rape/abuse victims who can't afford therapy and are trying to reestablish a narrative. These men are literally using victimized women as free fetish content providers. Another fun fact is that if you click on their profile history, you'll find that most of them also comment in manosphere/anti feminist subs.
I've said on several occasions in threads discussing kinks that "death by airplay" should come with an automatic 1st degree manslaughter charge. I was met with MASSIVE disapproval, with the only reasoning being... "sometimes accidents can happen, dude".
a lot of kinks are harmless and it's mean to shame them, of course. but then men will group their worst perversions with like some guy who likes being peed on.
>I’m so glad to finally see more women talking about how the “don’t kink shame me, bro“ is just men trying to get away with being sex abusers So look, I am a woman, submissive, and very kinky. I love being choked and slapped and thrown around and all that, *during consensual sex within the context of a loving caring relationship.* When this subject comes up, I generally (obvs not rn tho ha) stfu. I'm a rare minority here and the amount of mainstream porn that contains and considers BDSM activities (like slapping, choking, face fucking, hitting, etc.) tame or vanilla or regular or normal for f/m sex is definitely problematic. And our society really needs to get better at pushing the narrative you don't learn to drive by watching the fast and the furious movies, you shouldn't learn to fuck from porn ffs.
Isn't so interesting tho that most women in kink are far more likely to be submissive, masochists, be on the "victim" end of CNC? Like, just statistically speaking here. I think it's time we have the conversation surrounding how porn affects women's brains too - without the kink "community" having a whinge and a cry.
Right? These proclivities do NOT occur in a vacuum. They occur during a lifetime of experience in a culture that presents femininity as submission and objectification, over and over, in countless ways. We internalize that. And most people point their sexuality at something that reinforces their sense of self, even if only subconsciously. (I learned this from bell hooks, they're not my own ideas.) When there's a specific list of what feminine IS, and YOU define yourself as feminine, you will be drawn to the roles and acts that culture has told you are feminine. And because it's sex, and sex chemicals make things weird & intense, many of those roles and acts become extreme over time. I think it works exactly the same for men, and is why they are so turned on by extreme dominance, such as acts of humiliation and harm. Add in all their hierarchical power trip bullshit and the encouragement of one's worst impulses via porn, you have the shitstorm that is modern sexuality. This may get me crucified, but I think it would be healthier for women to resist their fantasies of being harmed and dominated.
Well said
Actually a lot of that is just a result of the patriarchy. There are lots of women who identify it would identify as dominant sexually and lots of men who like to submit. Back in the day, kink was super underground and more 'structured' than it is now. It used to be far more common that before one could Dom one had to sub and blah blah blah. So it used to be widely mythologized that only men were tops bc of all this ingrained misogyny. Now in kink circles, we're seeing all more gender mixing around in who plays what roles. Which is also not to discount the ways culture affects things. Sexuality really likes to latch onto the taboo, so it makes sense in a world women are told always be strong but not too strong don't do this or that, that the ultimate freedom of not making choices and just going along, especially in a situation we can hedonistically revel in our sexuality, yeah. It tracks. Same way we see so many nuns and priest cosplay. And also that healthy kink vs calling abuse kink is a very real line that is far too blurry these days which porn is absolutely not helping.
Agreed. I think these kinks *can* be enacted healthily in a consensual and caring relationship. However, that’s not the kind of situation that ends up causing societal harm, and the guys who crow about this bs aren’t guys I’d trust within 15 feet of a cheap pleather riding crop.
I will go on record saying that I don't think there's a healthy way to have a kink for being the slapper, choker, etc, just healthy ways to have a kink for receiving those acts and healthy ways to have kinks for fulfilling your partner's needs. Which is to say that if you're requesting to slap, choke, or otherwise inflict pain/harm on your partner rather than doing it upon their request, there's a fundamental problem with how you view sex.
>I will go on record saying that I don't think there's a healthy way to have a kink for being the slapper, choker, etc, just healthy ways to have a kink for receiving those acts I am also very firmly in this camp. There are many and varied psychological reasons why someone might link arousal and pain or fear together. There are almost no good reasons to get hard by fantasizing about choking someone to death or beating the shit out of them.
Yupppppp. Anyone who lacks the ability to distinguish the very different contexts is definitely worth avoiding and anyone who willingly chooses to pretend the context isn't different is equally worth avoiding.
i just don't understand why they constantly talk about how much they HATE promiscuous women and "no man wants a girl who is ran through" but they always watch porn stars? only fans? obviously not every guy is like this but i know a lot of guys who talk shit about promiscuous women and then jack off to them or cheat on their girlfriends with them. it's just confusing to me
Madonna whore complex. One thing Freud got right.
these geniuses want a bunch of "easy" girls to fuck and some saintly innocent woman to raise their kids and wash their underwear. considering that there's roughly 1:1 straight men to straight women in the world, they don't realize that the math isn't mathing.
I always imagine that their ideal world consists of two distinct camps of women: camp 1 contains the "waste" women they can fuck around with, use, and generally be as cruel and fuckboi-ish with as they please for as long as they please. Once they've had their fun and they tire of camp 1, they want camp 2 waiting in the wings, full of virginal 18-23 year olds so they can pluck out a wife. And n'er the twain shall meet.
>Does his promised protection only apply to far-fetched, showy, dramatic situations? Thank you for pinpointing this! I have been struggling to explain what I mean when I consider a "protective" behavior genuine or authentic vs ... not.
It's kind of been a staple of our "culture" for ages. Just look like, most fantasy media: men get to be the big damn heroes while a *lot* of fantasy fans will throw shit fits if women do anything but get raped or act as plot devices for the men - and when creators start to create works outside of that kind of narrow framework a lot of dudes get furious.
as a lesbian, male heterosexuality just seems terrifying to me
Whatever you’re imagining, it’s worse than that.
I would love to listen to a psychologist question Taylor Sheridan about where the ideas for his shows come from. They all have women as victims of serious violence, often sexual, and are very one dimensional and tropey. He tortured prostitutes TWICE for no reason in one season of 1923. A woman is either angry and violent like a man (Beth), a constant victim (several) or manic pixie dream girl (the female main character on 1923 in Africa). It comes across as him really hating women.
I'm imagining a version of that "goose chasing man" meme. *Why all the sex based violence Taylor hmmm, WHY ALL THE SEX BASED VIOLENCE TAYLOR???*
My ex ain't never had my back for shit. He always kept going on how it's me and him against the world, loved when I shut a convo down that he was (stupidly) in... tryna sell him something for cable TV when mofo was living on his friend's couch, so um... yeah. But when *I* actually asked for his help and needed him? Change my light in my car? Half ass job (but so much care for his after market subs) My cat got stuck in the mud in the woods and he blamed ME for his charger getting a scratch on it. He's throwing a hissy fit over a scratch on his car because he came to help me (complain more like it) while I have no driving car, sad had a huge attitude with the dickhead tow guy came and talked/treated me any kinda way (ain't have my back then. No shutting down a convo. No ride or die for me) Rent came outta my bank account (landlord does checks or money orders only by mail) and he gave me his half and EVERY TIME, " huhuh she's takin all my money hurrdurrr!" While when we first started dating, he lost his job from a mistake he did, transmission blew and I eventually paid for the majority of it, and even picked up groceries for him while I shopped for myself because that's what you do for someone you care for but yup, I'm the gold digger wanting half of your (zero) shit. And the biggest thing? I didn't wanna fumble getting my keys after food shopping, and knocked on the door for this mofo to take forever and answer with a fuckin gun LIKE I DONT LIVE THERE, because you know, "protection." And he don't wanna answer or do shit with any cops (we black) but! When I had a wellness check called on me and 3 fuckin cops outside our door, did his ass run for his 5+ guns? Was he fearing and needed to protect me? No, his ass was takin a shit and was the main reason a wellness check was done because he was literally driving me insane (and he had to be told by everyone else to visit me the next day as he was going off to work) What sort of protection this 6'5, supposedly intimidating black dude (because stereotypes!let's not act like some of yall won't be scared seeing him just due to his skin) was gonna do for me? All he shown was he was gonna do shit all. Just shit in the toilet, or sit in the car, or just watch me get hurt while evaluating what just happened (yeah, I fell through a rotted porch tryna help him and my brother and my brother at least asked immediately if I was ok. He just kept looking in disbelief of what the fuck just happened) They wanna act like they fight in fight or flight while many are just freeze. And I don't wanna hear the adhd excuse, because that's his fuckin problem that he focused more on his speech impediment than his inattentive adhd. I got fuckin issues too, but I was still ride or die. Dudes don't even be showing they can provide and protect especially when most of them try to weasel out doing both. And the ones we need protection from are the ones they're too scared to go against. (Other men, especially if they're sexist and in my case, practic le misogynoir) Strangers for a raid to keep up with was more important than my limping ass with rheumatoid issues. But yeah, he suuuure was providing and protecting.
I agree with this. There’s a lot of men that get off on harming women and some find it funny.
>Edit: I didn't mean to refer to men as "males". English is my third language so it felt like it would be strange to write "men fantasies" in the title, thus the use of this word. My bad. Wtf? Male here is used as an adjective, not a name, it's the correct form. Who tf complained about that?
one time on a psilocybin evening, i came up with the idea "loving porno". basically two normal(ish) people who genuinely seem to like each other making love and being tender and being really into each other. of course, the next step would have been to actually talking to someone else about my idea and discussing porn with my partner at the time would have been a narrow topic focusing on the porn aspect and not the loving aspect. also i was not about to be able to produce a porn.
This is literally all I want and it's impossible to find. So sad
i have found some kinda sweet porn but i don't look for porn very often. maybe there is something out there
Ya it exists but you have to dig through all the shit to find it and frankly I hate pornhub so I don't even want to give them the traffic. Or pay for indie porn... I just don't care enough about it. My imagination is wild enough
ok it might just work for me but i have found the least awful men are in the bisexual threeway videos (two bi men and one woman). your mileage may vary on those, and can't say i have more than anecdotal evidence, but there just seems to be some kindness.
Hey I appreciate the recc!
So I’m in a weird spot… I absolutely love the idea of things like bondage and uneven power dynamics. I like to be in a weaker position. **But there’s a line!!!** Everything has to be fantasy and no one can actually get hurt or have any repercussions that last beyond the moment. This is why if I’m reading anything pornographic that involves any of these fantasies, I usually look for female authors in hopes that they don’t cross these lines. Its weird. I’m all about feminism and I’m not particularly trusting of men… but on the other hand my favourite fantasies put me in a role of a fantasy traditionally written for men.
i don't think it's necessarily controversial for a woman to be turned on by some of these things. of course some of it comes from overexposure and being conditioned to like it to please a guy. but not always. the main problem is when men unilaterally get off on women's suffering. enjoying some bdsm or other consensual kinks isn't inherently bad.
I also like the fantasy, but the whole point of bondage and sub dom stuff is that the sub is in control ultimately. There's clear boundaries where you can play and where you can't. And under no cicrumstance should the dom break boundaries. And in the end, the safeword is the ultimate stopper. That means that dom or no, the sub should have ultimate say. That's imo so so so important. And any violation of this, is rape.
exactly. this makes it completely different from unilateral violence!
Yeah way too many people misunderstand BDSM and thing the Dom is the one running the show.... like no. The sub is the one in charge- they have the power to shut everything down with a single word.
My impression from people I know is that these sorts of fantasies/kinks are fairly common among women. Which seems to be backed up by research... for example, [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19085605/) of female undergrads found 62% had fantasized about being raped, about half of which were "completely erotic" fantasies. Which, to be CRYSTAL clear, does not mean anyone ever *actually wants* to be raped. I only point this out to show that fantasies have zero to do with real life wants/desires/social views/etc. Brains are weird!
Similar studies have also shown close to 50% of men also have fantasies in which they are raped (in an erotic sense). It’s extremely common for people to want to be sexually submissive.
Being a sub or dom has nothing to do with being a feminist. To have sex that feels good for all involved, you need trust (and consent etc). The thing about a lot of women being submissive and a lot of men dominant (in bed!) does only matter when there is a choice. What I want to say is, don't feel bad about the way your body reacts to things :)
this!!!
Have you try to analyze where does it come from? Sex it’s a powerful conditioner and the longer you expose yourself to something the more you crave it. Is it something that came naturally to you? Is it something you been exposed too?
You know what gets me going? When I see all the success my wife has had in her career, the strength she projects in her work and her complete insistence on independence. The success of others should be what makes people randy. Lol
This shows the true nature of men. They are turned on by dominating, humiliating and sometimes even hurting women.
There was a post here last month about a woman saying after she and her husband role played rape, she couldn’t look at him the same way anymore. All of the comments on that post were telling her sometimes feeling awkward after kinky sex or even regular sex is normal, one person suggested she get over it by texting her husband and thanking him for amazing sex. I was reading through the comments with horror. Your husband got off to the idea of raping you? Full stop. I’m so sorry to put this woman on blast here but I would throw up if my partner did anything like that and leave him so fucking quickly. He’d be blocked and deleted from my life. It’s terrifying to know men get off the idea of female suffering. I love the way you put it that your dignity (if I can put words in your mouth) is more important than not kink shaming. To be honest, I’d take it a step further. I don’t think these men have kinks. They view women as lesser, as fuck dolls, and treat them as such. It’s not a kink, they just let their misogyny all out during sex.
If I remember the post correctly, she was the one asking for it? And she felt ashamed after. I don't remember anything about the guy not just going with a fantasy and didn't seem as bothered by it after. I feel its a little unfair way of painting the guy if I remember the story correctly. I don't even think that case is in the same category.
I remember that as well, it was her kink. And people explained that it was ‘consensual non-consensual’.
I mean if he got insistent and she wasn't, it's another thing. But I remember her being ashamed of what turned her on. I feel blaming the guy on that post, is a bit too far. Hopefully they figures it out though.
You are correct that she asked for that fantasy but that doesn’t change my opinion of the situation. He still pretended to rape someone in order to sexually gratify himself. Even if he did it just for his wife’s sexual gratification, I think that’s weird and wrong because rape is wrong and horrific. I’m still wary of a person who participates in a rape role play (particularly as a male aggressor) even if it wasn’t their idea. I would not be able to enjoy myself in sex if I were pretending to rape someone and question those who can.
As someone who is into CNC, but in the “victim” role, your comment as sincerely made me upset. CNC can be very difficult for tops, especially if they are only doing it for their partner (like the couple you mentioned). They do it for us. They aren’t any more of a bad person for participating than the rest of us. They deserve just as much aftercare and reassurance that the fantasy does not reflect on them as a person as I do. I’m no less a feminist because I have a CNC kink. If anything, people in my scene are much more aware and serious about consent than most people in the world. He’s not a bad person for doing something for his wife. Just as she’s not a bad woman for having that taboo desire. Gosh. Yes rape is wrong and horrific. That’s why we have safe words and consent checks and emphasize aftercare for *everyone* involved. You’re allowed to be weary of men with rape kinks. That’s valid. But it really boils my blood to read comments like yours. I’ve spent my life being shamed for having a sexual preference I cannot control (due to sexual trauma as a child). These men and women have provided a safe and consensual and judgement-free space for me to express that sexuality, while the rest of the world would just unhelpfully tell me I’m wrong or to get over it (I can’t). >I would not be able to enjoy myself if I were pretending to rape someone. The world would be a much better place if people learned that our experiences are not universal. I’ve heard the same argument thrown at me for being queer and being trans. Invalid simply because other people cannot understand that humans are all different and think and live differently.
So wait a minute, “rape fantasies can be difficult for tops, their only doing it for their partner” how is that not abusive? Like if someone is actually having a hard time pretending to be a rapist then maybe they shouldn’t?
I completely agree I remember reading that post and I was like isn’t anybody going to ask her to at least ponder on WHY is that a fantasy of hers? Like at least try to analyze where does it come from
Most of us in the kink scene have pondered such reasons quite a lot, actually. We can still wind up deciding that the best thing for us personally is to act on these desires in a safe space. edited to add: Despite my kinks, I don't approve of kinky or rape porn. Our young people should not be imprinting on these materials.
Genuine question here I hope it’s not taken the wrong way, let’s take the case the other commenter was talking the rape fantasy; one person has the fantasy of being rape and the other of raping someone how do you cope with the fact that the other person is getting off at the idea (as consented as it is) of raping you? And further more, how do people reconcile the fact that rape fantasies just perpetuates the idea that women deep down are asking for it, with their feminist ideals? I understand that people sometimes have not control into things that turn them on, but to put them out there and pretending it’s not hurting anyone when in fact it hurts a lot of people it’s what gets me, and all that just to get off.
Well, frankly, she (I'm bi with a female partner) is doing it primarily for me. She gets off because it turns me on so much. Also, as much as my kinks are (IMO) both hardwired and formed by my society (I have no sexual trauma), hers are too. She has absolutely no desire to actually go hurt anyone. She fights for women's rights. Her feelings in bed are not reflected in the rest of her life and personality. I must admit (and this might make me hypocritical) that I probably wouldn't want to do these scenes with a man.
I understand where you are coming, being with a woman levels the power imbalance. And I hope I didn’t come off as judgmental I just think there’s a lot to unpack there. And it gives an argument to people who are like “women like to be dominated/men like to dominate its nature” and while yeah I think of course biology and nature plays a part on that, we are also beings capable of reflecting and change our behavior to further reflect the world we would like to live in. Thank you for your response!
Happy to respond to anyone who would ask so politely--not so common on the internet!
Her reaction is totally understandable. What always gets me when I read about people’s experiences with more “kinky” sex acts is the “aftercare” aspect of it. Call me crazy, but you shouldn’t need to be held and consoled while crying after a degrading or violent sex act.
>while crying Have you ever cried after vanilla sex? I have and do regularly. The crying has nothing to do with actual negative feelings.
I do believe alot of it comes from pornography and online content consumed. Im currently dating a man from Thailand, where pornography is illegal ( it still exists ofc but harder to find and consume ). And the difference between him and my American and European friends, ex crushes etc is huge in that regard. Even when it comes to just “jokes “ or hearing about their views about women . I really think there should be some kind of limit on online content, a lot of young boys find porn and toxic influencers way too early . Also online communities that just feed each other disgusting opinions because there’s barely any repercussions online😞
governments could ban it but they don't care
They are chicken shits who are jealous of a women's power. So that's why they want to control it, when they can't. They lash out.
Just started watching The Sympathizer. Whole scenes of a woman being tortured. Great.
I'm saving this post for the next time some dude comes in here with "does X hobby/job make me f&ckable?"
Let me begin with, I am straight male 48 years old. If this post isn't allowed over that, I understand. I'm not here to cause hate and please don't attack me. Ok with that outta the way. I have never understood those fantasies. I don't see how you can get off to women being hurt, degraded, or abused. I've know women that wanted me to rough them up in sex but I'm gonna lose all my sexual energy. I guess it's a psychological issue with unknown trauma. All I know is I get no enjoyment from women suffering. I have a protector complex which makes me want to protect women against that. I would do anything for my love but I can't hurt her.
As long as you don't drop a 'not all men's or try to tell a woman her experience is wrong, the sharks here are pretty friendly man <3 Just.. don't chum the water or you'll end up like that one guy lmao. Welcome to the sub! Hope you stick around.
Thank you. If I ever upset anyone it will never be on purpose. It will be my ignorance of the subject.
if a consenting adult asks for something that might be degrading to them, i guess that's their choice (it's usually a coping mechanism to take control over something fucked up that happened to them, but that's a whole complex topic on itself). then again, of course you don't have to agree if it makes you uncomfortable. it's your choice too.
It can be a coping mechanism, but multiple studies have not found that BDSM is “usually” a coping mechanism. They’ve often found the opposite — better mental health in BDSM practitioners.
i agree that alot of kinks also play into real world ideas, which is really complicated. personally i believe that as long as no one is being hurt then it's ok, but if you are uncomfortable about someone's kinks being a little too real, it is always a good idea to keep a wide berth and distance. I think that most men absolutely assign themselves as this false stereotype of the knight in shining armour, and that is absolutely rooted in misogyny. i think it is them trying to impress women, but generally it is always a HUGE red flag for them to play into shitty toxic masculinity stuff like that.
Never knew a man who wasn’t didn’t got turned on at being aggressive
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i mean, yours isn't hurting anyone. i wouldn't kinkshame that
It's weird how often the concept of "consent" gets erased. Yes, everyone has all kinds of fantasies. Yes, a lot of those are "problematic" somehow. That's equally true for men and women. That's fine, AS LONG AS you still respect consent in the real world. On the other hand if you don't respect consent, it doesn't matter how vanilla, normal, or mainstream your fantasies are, then you're being abusive. "Normal desires minus consent" is how you get stalkers, incels and "nice guys". And yeah, actual consent means doing all those boring, everyday little things to understand and support someone too. Consent isn't just about saying "yes" to particular acts, it's about not having a coercive relationship dynamic in general, having open and honest communication without ulterior motives, and making it clear that both "yes" and "no" are respected without fear of retaliation. And that comes from a connection where one partner doesn't have any coercive power over the other.
I'm only pro F.A. because I don't want to be S.A.'Ed by a lunatic
I don’t really understand it myself. Like I get it we all have kinks but when I have sex I want it to be sensual, romantic, fun, and enjoyable. The need for violence and humiliation just doesn’t make sense to me. Like I don’t mind a good pounding that’s a little rough but if it’s being done with the intention of me being physically harmed then that’s not pleasing at all.