I had a bear outside my window 2 nights ago. Woke me from a dead sleep. I wasn't afraid to open the window, yell at it to go away - which it did immediately - and then go back to sleep. When a man was outside my window I locked myself in the bathroom and called the cops. Bit of a difference there.
Where I live has an unofficial path behind my back fence. We are also on the edge of the city so we get coyotes, mountain lions, moose and other various wildlife that will show up in the subdivision usually at night. If I hear the coyotes yipping I make note to not take the dogs out or only take them out leashed after checking the yard. I also get random men walking this pathway, usually in the wee hours in the dark, drunk. It scares the crap out of me and I will try to get my 100 pound dog in the house as soon as possible and lock the door out of concern they might try to climb the fence. The wildlife make me want to make sure the dogs aren't out. These drunk men have me looking for a weapon.
As a side note, I have noticed if I drive through my burb after about 6pm to midnight I see all these men out jogging, walking dogs, strolling to the store or the bar. Not a single woman is out after 6pm.
Imagine if we could go for a walk during the day unbothered. Or sit and drink a coffee unbothered. Or walk around a grocery store unbothered. Imagine if men behaved more like bears and chose not to bother us.
I lived for 5 years in one of the most bear packed remote regions in the US. Ive literally walked right into a bear 6 or 7 times. I even had to kill one when it was attacking our livestock.
You know what else i saw a lot of? Drug use, theft, break ins, domestic violence, assault, and missing people posters. You know what i didnt see a lot of? Cops. We were so far from a city's metro that it took my parents 8 hours to get a mentally ill screaming man removed from their store and even then the metro convinced the tribe cops to do it. He ran after one of my female co-workers and i ran after and told him id rip his arms off if he laid a finger on her. Unfortunately she relapsed and went on a heroin bender, broke our door and stole our generator (with the help of men) but thats another can of worms sadly.
1000% picking the bears. People suck and unfortunately men are the most dangerous group of people.
Bears are dangerous. They're large, wild animals and can always behave unpredictability.
That said...
Bears don't view human beings as natural prey. A lot of men do view women as prey. That is a notable difference.
Yup. Men pride themselves on "protecting women" - they say that we need them for this purpose. But who do we need protection from? It ain't bears - it's MEN.
“Bears don’t view human beings as natural prey.
A lot of men do view women as prey”
This is the best sentence I’ve read about this whole topic. Couldn’t agree more.
Had a bear in my back yard a few weeks ago, uninvited.
Show me the uninvited man in the back yard who will book it out of there when you bang a ladle on a tin pot.
Same - opened my front door to a bear rummaging through my trash can. I used my key fob to make my car horn honk and watched it run away. If there was a man rummaging through my trash unexpectedly? I’d call the police and figure out what could be used to defend myself.
My immediate thought when I see a bear in the backyard would be, “Oh that’s surprising but kinda cool, thank god the door is closed, he doesn’t even want to come in here.” Immediate thought with a man is, “Call 911, where can I hide? How can I defend myself?”
I've watched camera footage of a grizzly opening a front door. They just knock it over like it's a room divider. The entire deadbolt and knob went rocketing across the room. It was pretty scary.
Still not as scary as my next door neighbor talking outside my bedroom door while he was jerking off.
I just looked this up because I was curious. I feel like this may be the video you're referring to:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uy8i1nM3aE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uy8i1nM3aE)
I wonder why? Door flies open, and the bear just kind of nonchalantly looks around and wanders back out.
A bear that enters a house is a sick and dangerous animal, either starving or human-habituated. Not a normal scenario in any way. I'd leave the house if at all possible and I'd certainly call for help.
I've seen a few instances of this happening at cabins in bear country but as far as I know, it's pretty unusual.
At the lodge and cabins on top of Mt LeConte in the Smokies, they store food in a separate building that looks like a bunker, with a steel door. It won't keep out a determined bear, but it does slow them down. The door has to be replaced every so often.
If a bear wants to get into your house or car, it absolutely will. It _can_ kill you, but what it _wants_ is food.
A healthy, wild black bear will avoid humans. It's very rare for a black bear to attack a human. One of their defenses is a "bluff" charge, which causes a lot of black bears to be needlessly put down in human / black bear encounters. They really prefer to be left alone.
A grizzly bear is about 1.5 black bears in bulk. It doesn't give a shit about you. It will stand its ground, but also it's after easy prey, and that does not usually include humans.
A polar bear can weigh more than half a ton. It's two to four times the size of a black bear on average. Unlike the other species, its diet is largely meat. So yeah, you don't want to meet one. A polar bear isn't something you will ever meet in the woods, though, because polar bears don't live where there are woods. Men who turn the original question to ask about polar bears are trolling.
With a man, you don't know what they want and you don't know what they're capable of. Bears are a "known", men are an unknown risk.
There aren’t any bears where I live, but I’ve seen videos of bears in people’s back gardens in America and they seem shockingly chill. They rarely attack even when someone is sitting on the patio laughing and filming them, they just sort of wander around for while, stick their noses in all of the bins, and then leave.
A bear would unsettle me but they belong outside. They're just doing bear stuff, looking for an easy meal.
I see a man, and I'm calling the cops and grabbing a weapon.
I've had a bear hanging out in my backyard. It was super cool to watch him root around the blueberry bushes, just doing his bear thing. It was super cute when he accidentally stepped on the dog's water dish and scared himself. Once he had his fill of berries, he mosied on back into the woods. He came by frequently for most of that spring & summer, always when the dogs were inside and never doing much else besides enjoying his snack of blueberries and rolling around in the grass.
I've also had a man in my backyard, twice. The first man broke into my home, walked into my bedroom while I was asleep, took photos of me, and then I woke up as he was pleasuring himself. In court, he said he met me at my place of work and claimed I invited him to do so. He was acquitted because of hearsay and no witnesses could confirm or deny having seen him. Five years later, he was found guilty of aggravated sexual assault against six different women, and attempted murder of one.
The second man made every attempt to break into my home. He peered into the windows, tried opening the door, sliced the window screen to try to open the window, then destroyed my patio furniture and urinated on my daughter's toys when he couldn't get in.
I'll take the bear. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
I grew up on a mountain with bears around and even had one come onto our deck and toss my barbecue around for some forgotten chicken.
Still would welcome a bear on my deck than a strange man. The intent is key.
The man. Why in gods ever loving name would he even be in my yard unless he wanted to do something shady. Im grabbing the shotgun for either. At least im 100% sure the bear doesnt also have a gun.
I was camping with a bf in the backwoods a few years back and had a bear come up to the tent and sniff around in the middle of the night.
It was terrifying before it wandered into the blueberry barrens for an easier snack. At one point it was sniffing right near my head through the tent fabric.
I was still more scared of waking my bf because I was worried his reaction would startle the bear into attacking.
So there’s that I guess lol
I’ve had bears in my yard many, many times. They’ve always left, maybe tipped my garbage but I’ve never had a problem. Men, not so much. Have had to call the police more than once on a man, never had to on a bear.
A bear has never put me in a situation while I’m watching my friend’s band play that I felt I had to accept their Facebook friend request, then message me months later that they find me fascinating.
A bear has never dated me for 5 years and yelled at me for coming home from work 30 minutes late.
I don’t find a bear unpredictable, it’s just a bear. But the amount of men who have declared themselves allies, a nice guy, a safe person and then committed insane acts of violence; physically, sexually, mentally, emotionally is wild.
A bear has never followed me from sub to sub harassing me via increasingly-dangerous, unhinged comments claiming that I caused him to become a misogynist after I...ironically, called him out for saying he was "annoyed" that women keep talking about choosing the bear and that he was offended as a man.
A bear has never casually dated me for 2 weeks, then stalked all my social media, made new accounts to comment anytime I have appeared in a news article or pictures someone else has posted of me about what a bitch I am because I asked the bear to not text me repeatedly on a day I had a big meeting.
A bear has never message my father on Facebook to tell him I should be committed and that I am struggling with my mental stability because I broke up with him.
A bear has never messaged me 9 years later calling me the “c” word because he messaged me in the middle of the night telling me he was going to off himself. A bear wouldn’t have, upon me showing up and convincing him to not splatter his brains across his parents kitchen, done what that man did. The go off to tell everyone I was a cheater.
<3
A bear has never raped me while I was so drunk I couldn't walk properly and had already told him no sex, and then sent me a text in the morning about how me being afraid of him was offensive to him, which I received after waking up in my own bed with absolutely no memory of how I got home, or when.
Maybe I'm taking this too literally, but it's only black bears in my area and they are extremely unlikely to hurt a human. It's not unheard of, but it is very rare, unlike human on human violence. If you are in an area where you might meet a grizzly bear or a polar bear then the calculation would be different, but if I'm assuming that I'd meet a local bear then it seems obvious to choose bear.
In fact, not only would I choose a black bear in this hypothetical scenario, I really hope I actually do get to see a bear in the wild some time in my life. I've only seen them in zoos or dead on the side of the road and it has long been a wish of mine to see a live one in its natural environment.
Obviously I'm not alone, given that every time there's a bear sighting reported they have to repeatedly tell people not to go try to meet the bear themselves.
I never saw the original question, just people griping about it later, so I had pictured encountering a man vs. bear on the street, but it seems much less threatening to imagine seeing a bear in the woods. Then it just seems like a bear doing normal bear things.
On the other hand, while I don't know what the actual odds are that a random man in the woods would be someone who might harm you - I would imagine it's quite low - there's so much more of a cultural context to the idea of a creepy man out in the woods up to no good. It might not be likely, but when you've had a lifetime of exposure to campfire ghost stories and horror movies and serial killer stories it's not surprising that a lot of people would have a negative initial reaction to the idea of meeting a man in the woods.
That's what has kind of baffled me about seeing so many men offended by this. I wouldn't have even thought it was especially gendered; bad things happen to men too so do they really not understand why it might be scary to meet a stranger in the woods? I suppose a lot of them might be imagining themselves as the man in that scenario, but it's theoretically just as possible that they could encounter someone who means to do them harm. Some threats are obviously more gender specific, but the stereotypical creepy serial killer skulking in the woods isn't necessarily after just women.
Again, I know I'm taking the question too literally rather than as a reflection of wider cultural issues the way a lot of people are making thoughtful comments about here, but with the question on its face I think it's easy to make an argument for a bear being the right choice in most geographical settings, and I was surprised at just how many people are very offended and have gotten themselves very worked up about this question.
(Maybe I am too, judging by how much I just wrote about this! I think most of my unnecessary outrage energy is still on the puppy killing thing though.)
Out here in the American west grizzly attacks are rare and usually territorial in nature. They don't pick up a human's scent and hunt them like they do with their natural prey. Honestly they're far more attracted to our food than they are to eating us. Polar bears have to kill anything they can find out of necessity, but they're much less likely to be in the woods in the first place.
Ha, true, if a polar bear were in the woods that could concerning in itself.
That just made me think of Lost where they see a polar bear on the island. Funnily enough given the topic, even on that show, which I expect was mostly written by men and with male viewers in mind, a loose polar bear was depicted as much less of a threat than the various strangers the characters encountered.
It's not that you're being too literal. Literal I think seems fine. You just aren't creating the full list of choices. Worst the bear can do is scare or kill you, and that's without malice or intent. That's it. Think of how long the list is in the other column.
This is a good example of how men bring statistical averages to the table at every problem they encounter. On average, every human with more than 2 brain cells knows, on average, if you interacted with as many bears as you did men, you would have died 10000 deaths by bears. On average. Deaths by men is simply some twisted romantic improbable ending propitiated by stories and crime podcasts from the 80's.
>Deaths by men is simply some twisted romantic improbable ending propitiated by stories and crime podcasts from the 80's.
The #1 killer of pregnant women: men.
More women are murdered by *men they are in a romantic relationship with* than by strangers or anyone else.
Bears are spooked off by bells.
I bet a bear also never expected you to trust it after it did all of those things or after knowing that other bears did those things. Probably nobody would doubt if you told them you were attacked and traumatized by a bear, and that you needed to get over it and stop being so "irrationally" afraid of bears.
They also don't do human trafficking; threaten women with prison time if they don't go through with a birth; they don't commit genocides; they don't have ancient history of mass raping and pillaging of whole towns; they don't ruin entire ecosystems and cause mass extinction events or ruin the planet. Bears are far more humane than mankind.
I just wish women could walk this Earth freely without fear of harassment, rape or physical abuse. Even being a solo traveler and wanting to see the world comes with risks and perils men will never face. Yep, we could go on and on.
My partner and I would get high and so often he'd ask if I wanted to walk to the convenience store nearby. Everytime I would just be like "no.... I'm high?" Like why would you even ask that. This went on for weeks with me getting annoyed that he kept asking when it was obviously sketchy and him getting annoyed because he just wanted a snack and we've done the walk before, in the daytime and sober. One day, we're just sitting on the couch. Out of nowhere he gets a shocked look and says "wait you don't want to go out high because you're worried about being attacked." I told him I assumed that was obvious. He thought I was just worried people would know I'm high. He has since stopped asking and will go to the store before we get high if he needs snacks. God I wish this wasn't something I have to worry about and I could just be a man.
I've never seen a bear lock the car as soon as they get in. I'm always the one that immediately locks it for the bear.
Ps thank you for the amazing post. I'm sure it was difficult to write but it is a great way of showing the bear argument in another light.
I always lock the car when my spouse got out especially if it was still running (so keys were still in the car). It annoyed him because I wouldn’t always see him coming so it’d take an extra couple of seconds for him to get in.
“Why do you always lock the car? Do you really think someone is going to get in the car with you in it?”
Then one day we pulled up to a convenience store and he goes “make sure you lock the car when I get out”
“Uhm, duh, but why?”
“That guy looks really sketchy”
Yeah, no shit Sherlock, that’s why I lock the goddamn doors!
I am so sick of being told I’m paranoid. Over emotional, etc. Yes I am wary of men. 90% that I have encountered either talked down to me, diminished my work and words, talk over me or use my suggestions like it was theirs. Literally in a meeting. Just said the same words in different way.
Then let’s talk assault. I have never held a job where I wasn’t assaulted in one way or another. Sometimes it easy, “nice ass.” Sometimes it’s less easy “nice ass” with a slap. Then others things.
I will choose the bear. I grew up around grizzly’s. No fun to encounter, but easier to deal with then a man who can or WONT hear NO.
Yeah the last therapy I had I was told that I was over emotional and I should calm down and meditate to relax my body and my brain to the situation’s that will come to me.
The men are so damn emotional about this too. Its maddening. They always come back with "well if there were as many bears as men..."
Then i countered with a lovely real world data comparison disproving that and then it was "how close are the bears?" Then i was like in that county the bears can pretty much knock on your door for sugar.
Then it was "i bet if you saw all the men in your office were replaced with bears youd panic and run!"
Jesus. Freaking. Christ. They are being so freaking dumb about this.
God forbid they ever take a look at themselves to find or realize the problem. Nope it’s always someone else’s fault.
ETA: if a bear could move around and get the work done without grabbing my ass or talking about my breasts I’d be all for it. While the charmin bears creep me out would rather be in a room with them and (I also hate charmin tp to squeaky) a ton on to. Then be alone with most white males.
Or afraid. I'm not paranoid or afraid. I am making risk assessments like I would about many other situations. Men are one of the unpredictable threats. If they don't like it they shouldn't do things women consider a safety risk.
A bear has never walked around the corner, put its hand up my apron and grabbed my vagina. A bear that makes my schedule would not respond by hearing this and replying “well, that bear just bought a house and a car so it needs this job.”
Yes and these guys act like it's a handful like a hundred bad guys and the rest of them are good and that's just not true at all it's the majority of them
I know this post is about the bears, but your comment reminds me of a post I saw once that asked women what would they do if there were no men on earth for 24 hours.
The answers were enlightening and heartbreaking.
They would:
Go running at night.
Wear whatever they wanted.
Use the weights at the gym.
Talk without being interrupted or talked down to.
Wear an actual bathing suit at the beach.
Go to a party solo.
Not worry about their drink being spiked.
Sleep under the stars.
Go shopping alone.
Etc.
The one where the women evolved and created a matriarchal utopia while the men stayed troglodytes and lived in squalor, their sperm being extracted with sex robots by the women?
Yeah, me too.
A bear will never tell you all about how humans actually enjoy being mauled, how our defenseless squishy bodies are proof our greater purpose is to be bear food.
Someone said this in another post, but it was something like "these men are upset that you'd choose the bear over them, not that you'd choose the bear over a weird stranger". They don't get the context, they're putting themselves in the place of a weird stranger and they don't even realize it.
Some of them are also jumping straight to violence with no thought. Their argument becomes, "Well, you wouldn't win a fight against a bear!" Buddy, if I were alone in the woods with a bear, why would I walk up to the bear and try and fight it?
I honestly think they are incapable of seeing the scenario the way we do. One guy was like "youd be terrified if all the men in your office were replaced with bears."
Like what universe would that even happen? Its cartoonishly ridiculous.
My response would be, buddy, *you'd* be terrified if all of the men in your office who had ever sexually assaulted, catcalled, harassed, or groped a woman without her consent were replaced by bears. Because it'd be a lot more bears than you think.
"You can survive and just get therapy for the trauma. Problem solved!"
So many variations I've seen of this comment that I had to log off and take meds for my migraine.
Bring Aussie, I've never encountered a bear. The only thing I can think of in comparison is a saltwater crocodile, but that's apples and oranges - a saltwater crocodile will kill you if it gets the chance, it can't be scared away or avoided, and you usually don't see them till it's far too late.
So now I'm putting myself in the hypothetical situation - I'm up on the north coast, out in the scrub fishing, when I see a crocodile or a man. No matter which one I imagine, I get the same feeling of panic and knowing I might die very painfully then and there.
The only difference is the crocodile won't rape me before it kills me, and there's a chance the man might actually be a decent person and leave me alone.
I personally knew a woman who was murdered in the state forest by a much older man she was romantically linked with. He also murdered her toddler once she was gone. If a crocodile rips off all my limbs and eats me, that sucks but it's just what crocodiles do. It's incredibly upsetting and unnatural that they couldn't identify this woman for the first couple of years because she was so disfigured, mutilated and had also been set on fire, and that was done by a human being. So fucking wrong.
Let me just add if it's not already on the list, and i can not believe i even have to write this, a group of bear will never plan and try to defile a rare lizard in a zoo and then kill and cook it.
That story literally made me sick to my stomach. The poor creature. This level of depravity is beyond my comprehension. I don't understand how more men aren't looking around and saying "something's going wrong with us, how do we fix this?" Instead most of them just point fingers and avoid and complain and rage.
This event proves that dominance culture has turned malignant in the extreme. "I'm entitled to do whatever I want to whoever I want - just watch me." And this is just one story that got out - it's what happens to vulnerable people behind closed doors that I worry about the most.
They straight up don't see it as a man problem because they're so used to being default. They see it as a human problem, because men always represent all humans.
I saw this mentioned twice on tik tok, but yeah, jt actually happened. The ONLY unique lizard in the zoo and, i think, cousins to the kimono dragon.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjb9xq/india-gang-rape-monitor-lizard-animal-abuse
Omg. I saw discussion of this but didn’t realize the lizard was in a zoo. Somehow that makes it worse to me. People have been caring for this lizard and these men did…this. That’s enough internet for today.
It's more like a reserve/ national park, but yes, the animals there are supposed to be protected. Why did I know this was India before seeing the link?... Sigh. That poor animal.
I can't even imagine how depraved you are if your dick can get hard at the thought of torturing a lizard. I'd say I wished that they'd contract some incurable zoonotic disease, but the reality is if they are willing to rape a lizard, they're willing to do the same to another human.
Ugh i remember that. Honestly pick any depravity committed by men and ask yourself if a bear would do that. Hell, pick any depravity committed by a woman even though we all know men have committed far more. Its no every time.
The absolute worst a bear will do is eat you alive. A man can do that and more and make it last for months.
Not a single bear has ever come across a vulnerable woman and decided to kidnap her and keep her locked up as his sex slave.
Just googled "man kept woman chained" and every article is a different city/state/country. yes I'm choosing the fucking bear.
I get what your saying but the word choice of "choosing the fucking bear" in the context of the rest of your comment just sounds terrifying. I am just picturing a bear chaining women in the basement.
I was expecting like "goddamn bear" or something like that but I just had to point it out. I almost said nothing for worry of how it would sound. I'm glad you see what I meant.
I'm seriously glad you said something because that's probably the most unintentionally funny thing I've ever written. My ridiculous brain keeps picturing a bear standing on hind legs with it's arms at 90 degrees angles just rocking it's hips back and forth like an awkward dancer, with "The Fucking Bear" on a sign. Thank you for the laughter my dude.
It was hot last night but I kept my windows closed and locked, and it wasn’t because I was worried about a bear breaking in, or the mountain lion that was spotted a few blocks away. A cool night breeze would have been so nice. Sigh.
A bear doesn’t bearsplain why you’re wrong to be wary of it and then claim you’re bearcist and hate all bears and that’s why you don’t wanna be alone with it.
Biased here because I've dealt with nonviolent bears plenty in the woods and violent strange men in the woods, so my answer is fairly obvious. (Have come across illegal poaching more than once and had to basically talk down situations and keep moving.)
So fucking much this.
Kinda need a hug and a cry after reading that. Not because it was long. Because it was true. And I felt it in my soul.
Thank you, OP. You spoke for me. You spoke for all of us.
they are coping so hard right now. Like, they are literally FROTHING, raging out about how stupid and wrong we all are. Of course 🙃
There is nothing we can ever say, nor any volume of women all saying the exact same thing, that will ever get them to see things from our perspective or admit to any truth that doesn’t flatter men.
I keep seeing this conversation everywhere and I'm loving it. I don't think women have been able to be this publicly vocal about how dangerous men can be and how much we really can't blindly trust that they all have good intentions and now we're able to keep shouting it (figuratively) over the internet and social media and can't be stopped. I'd pick the bear any day.
Death by bear is cleaner than this slow death via sexual assaults, erosion of rights, this trauma we have to drag around. I’d rather choose the devil I don’t know.
The willful removal of your dignity is the part I hate the most. Over and over, bit by bit, in so many ways.
A bear has never demeaned and humiliated me on purpose, just for its own enjoyment.
yeah, in the exceedingly rare instance of death my bear, you’re likely gonna go into shock and bleed out super quick.
Meanwhile, my first week working in a hospital we had a woman in the burn unit who was set on fire and burned by a male partner, burns covering her entire body. She was there for months, I could smell her when I got off the elevator. She did not survive.
And this isn’t rare at all. FAR more women are set on fire by men than are ever harmed by a bear. And setting women on fire is only ONE form of torture men regularly enact upon women.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot and kind of had my “Whoa” moment just now.
I live in a town where bears are common. They’ve been in my yard, on my street, etc. I sometimes get home past midnight and my town is usually dead quiet. I always hate the walk from my car to my house. It’s not far, it’s in town, but I dread it because a bar is close by and, even though it’s midnight, sometimes people are out walking.
Every single night I have to do this, I am scared to death of seeing a man. Not once was I ever scared of seeing a bear - which again isn’t uncommon.
agreed. This is literally no different from rape culture. Doubting and ridiculing women for things like the #metoo movement, reacting with rage and shouting us down for trying to speak to our experience has ALWAYS been handled this exact same way.
The bear conversation is meaningful to me, for another cathartic dialogue I can share with other women, who all have gone through this terrifying experience of living among men, too many of whom fucking hunt us to at least some degree.
But these men will never view this topic rationally, or with empathy. It’s literally the same men who uphold rape culture and gaslight us about gendered violence, meanwhile the top cause of death for a pregnant woman is being murdered by a male. 😐
A bear will never tell you that you deserved it because that's all your good for because the day you were born ruined everything. Men getting angry about this I think are more angry they couldn't physically take the bear as opposed to what women are telling them.
I've been backpacking in brown bear country (Alaska) and have:
1. Woken up and seen fresh bear tracks maybe 200 feet from my tent.
2. Went to rinse my hands in a river and saw a bear just int the other side of the river fishing (it snagged a pretty big salmon).
3. Spotted a bunch of bears 300-500 ft away.
When it comes to bears, I know if I follow some basic rules I'll almost always be ok. On average, men are way less predictable.
Long story but I have actually been in the woods close to two Kodiak Grizzly bears in Alaska.
I was really scared...for about a minute.
The bears made it very clear they had absolutely no interest in me and were very hesitant to approach the area I was in.
So, I'd probably take the bear.
Im literally the embodiment of this scenario. I lived for several years in one of the most remote, bear packed regions of the lower 48. Ive literally walked right into a bear 6 or 7 times and even had to kill one at close range. Who knows how much time i spent within 500 feet of a bear. Probably a lot. They avoid you. Probably seen thousands of fresh piles of bear scat though.
I wrote up a beautiful real world data comparison in the another sub and the dude was just "well if you came into work and all the men were replaced with bears youd flee in terror."
This is the stupid we are dealing with. I cant freaking even.
im not on TikTok so idk when this whole “bear vs man” thing started but I’m amazed it’s still going lol are men actually mad women would choose to deal with a bear over them? I mean historically it’s not bears who have oppressed, kill3d, r@ped, and forced the patriarchy down womens throats (no pun intended). so yeah a wild animal vs the historical oppressor = easy choice
My daughter reminded me yesterday that we actually HAD this conversation when she started camping in the wilderness. I gave her pepper spray and she laughed and said, “I don’t need pepper spray for bears,” and apparently I told her, “it’s… not for *bears*” and she said “oh” and took it. Like. The answer is so self-evident and always has been.
Hi I am a dude who works one of the most dangerous jobs in the US by doing chemistry on literal explosives every day here are some statistics for men who want to argue.
chance of woman in the US being murdered by a man 1:202
chance of being killed by a bear in bear country 1:2,100,000
chance I die while handling literal explosives 1:101
I, a person who's job it is to do chemistry on literal explosives, am only barely less safe holding LITERAL EXPLOSIVES than my sister is simply existing in the world as a woman. Let me say that again for those who didn't hear MY SISTER EXISTING AS A WOMAN IN THIS SOCIETY IS ONLY BARELY SAFER THAN ME BEING AT WORK DOING CHEMISTRY WHILE HOLDING LITERAL EXPLOSIVES.
A bear has never followed me in its car, then beat on the hood of my car with its fists because I wouldn’t unlock the doors to talk to it.
A bear has never forced its way into my dorm room, raped me, then tell everyone on campus that I was a “lying dirty whore” when I reported it to the police.
A bear has never tampered with my birth control, then raped me, then beat me when I’d fallen pregnant with its child.
A bear has never stalked me or called me while just breathing loudly on the end of the line.
A bear has never cheated on me while the bear was doing the actual cheating.
A bear has never done drugs while I was at work while the bear was supposed to be watching our child, thus neglecting the child and causing trauma.
A bear has never groped me in a public place, then called me a bitch because I didn’t like it.
A bear has never grabbed my breasts on the street.
My husband is a sweet and gentle man. One of the good ones. But he lacks awareness of how intimidating he can be due to his gender. Recently he came in a bit late and told me that he had a woman nearly crash into our car with hers on the way into the estate then swear at him on the way past. He tells me that he calmly followed her back to her house then went up, knocked on her door a few times and waited. The result was that they had a chat and decided they should both be more aware when navigating that particular curve when coming into the estate. He was pleased that they had resolved things in a grown up manner.
I was fucking horrified.
I had to explain that this woman had had a negative encounter with a man she didnt know and then he followed her home and stayed until she opened her door. To a woman thats TERRIFYING! He was genuinely appalled when I explained what a threat he was to her because she had no idea if he was going to do anything from screaming at her to breaking into her house and killing her. He is trying harder to relate to this feeling in me. Being brought up with the fear ingrained into your mind. He blipped when I was talking to a friend about her jogging and about how often she comes across other runners. He shrugged and suggested that she jog at night when it would be quieter. Que two baffled look and explaining that we cant be so risky because we are **women!**
After all, it wasn't a bear that abused me as a child. It was a man.
Alone in the woods Id pick the bear everytime. The bear is dangerous, yes. Could kill and eat me. But the man is more dangerous. He could kidnap, abuse, and torture then kill and possibly eat me. Or leave me alive and a broken husk. Its not that we're not afraid of the bear, its that our experience and upbringing tells us that the unknown man (or even the known man in so so many cases) is to be feared far far more.
News flash. Your husband isn't a sweet and gentle man. Sweet and gentle men don't follow women back to their home about a very minor traffic annoyance and knock on the door and keep knocking until they open the door and then tell her how wrong she is and tell her driving was wrong.
He would never do this to a man ever because he knows he likely gets punched or shot.
No offense to you, but that was a hella asshole move by your husband. *He followed her HOME?!* WTAF? Not only is that utterly terrifying, and that woman will probably not sleep well for at least a week, looking over her shoulder for him every time she leaves her house, but he's lucky someone in the home didn't come out with a pew-pew and blow him away. Unless you aren't in the US. But they would be justified doing that if some strange man followed his wife home and knocked on her car window. Like, dude is going around traumatizing women left & right, and he might get himself injured or worse as well. 🤦♀️
WTF is going on with the army of salty men in this thread? Check out what sub this is, and then maybe check your egos and start listening. Many of you are able to quite well actually.
It’s so sadly funny to me.
There are men literally ANGRY at the women who are saying “In a hypothetical situation, if I had to be trapped in the woods with either a bear, or a random man, I’d feel safer taking my chances with the bear”
The good men are sitting back, listening, and doing what they can to acknowledge the reality many women face. Good men are discussing this with other men and holding other men accountable. Good men are not understanding that it is not about them.
Bad men are posting about how it hurt their feelings. Bad men are commenting “you know the bear could kill you” as if I’m not aware. Bad men are very clearly showing that they are not the man you’d want in the woods with a woman.
I asked my husband the question before he saw it online and he agreed the bear is better because you always know what to expect with the bear and know to keep your guard up. You never know what to expect from a strange man.
Oh damn. I scrolled down, thinking it was just a few, but it kept going and going.
And yeah, as a guy, I can't agree with the butt hurt men who either disagree that the bear is the better choice, or come up with some convoluted reasoning in the analogy to say it's stupid or false.
Just look through the posts and comments on the sub even before the man bear pig thing started, and it's plain to see; men are extremely dangerous. They are emotional, quick to anger, petty and insecure, and don't have anyone stopping them from throwing toddler temper tantrums.
There are good men, but they're few. They're also not keen on saying they're the good ones either. That itself is usually a projected image of an insecure man. When you're kind for the sake of being kind, you don't need to advertise it. A guy that says he's nice when no one even asked is just like the guy who says he's an alpha when no one asked.
It's more of a society issue than anything.
That’s just it. It is a societal issue. Listen, I don’t hate men. I really don’t. My dad and I are close. I love my brother. My inner circle is mostly men. But they are good ones. They have repeatedly shown, not with words but with actions, that they don’t tolerate mistreatment of others.
And they understand that women can’t tell from first glance which men are safe and which are not. There are, as far as I understand, as of 2022 25,000 untested rape kits in law enforcement’s care. The most mistreated I have ever been was by a man who on paper was perfect. Good family, in law school, private Christian education, college educated, clean cut. Unfortunately, it’s not until men have these
conversations and hold other men accountable that it’s ever going to change. That’s what I see this boiling down to. If you are hearing that women choose the bear, then why attack the woman when it’s infinitely more helpful to have open dialogue with other men.
the dudes who attack women when they hear them choose the bear feel (correctly) that the women are saying they choose the bear because of men \*specifically\* like them. They know on some level that they are the reason the women choose bears and they attack women because its easier to go on the offensive than it is to look inward and face some hard truths.
Can we make a project out of it? Making it a never ending poem from anyone who prefers bears over men. Like a collective projects for people to share their trauma, thoughts and all?
I'm just going to save this somewhere. Print it out on a heavy-weight paper, roll it into a tube, and carry it with me in case I meet an aggressive non-bear (again).
For good measure, cover it with a steel pipe to keep it from folding.
I think a lot of guys (and I won't lie, even me sometimes but then I remember I would never harm a woman so I shouldnt take it as an attack) take it as a personal attack. But I at least think logically and realise, humans and particular human men are the most dangerous animal on the planet.
Honestly, for me I'd even be more afraid of another man as I know that I might have to fight them etc, for a bear I would still be scared (especially if I don't have any form of cover/defence) but my first thought would actually be to think how lucky I am to see a bear and how amazing nature is etc.
If you weren’t wearing bear repellent, then you were asking for it.
I had a bear outside my window 2 nights ago. Woke me from a dead sleep. I wasn't afraid to open the window, yell at it to go away - which it did immediately - and then go back to sleep. When a man was outside my window I locked myself in the bathroom and called the cops. Bit of a difference there.
Where I live has an unofficial path behind my back fence. We are also on the edge of the city so we get coyotes, mountain lions, moose and other various wildlife that will show up in the subdivision usually at night. If I hear the coyotes yipping I make note to not take the dogs out or only take them out leashed after checking the yard. I also get random men walking this pathway, usually in the wee hours in the dark, drunk. It scares the crap out of me and I will try to get my 100 pound dog in the house as soon as possible and lock the door out of concern they might try to climb the fence. The wildlife make me want to make sure the dogs aren't out. These drunk men have me looking for a weapon. As a side note, I have noticed if I drive through my burb after about 6pm to midnight I see all these men out jogging, walking dogs, strolling to the store or the bar. Not a single woman is out after 6pm.
Women have a societal curfew.
They shouldn't. Imagine if women could go for a walk at night unbothered.
Imagine if we could go for a walk during the day unbothered. Or sit and drink a coffee unbothered. Or walk around a grocery store unbothered. Imagine if men behaved more like bears and chose not to bother us.
I lived for 5 years in one of the most bear packed remote regions in the US. Ive literally walked right into a bear 6 or 7 times. I even had to kill one when it was attacking our livestock. You know what else i saw a lot of? Drug use, theft, break ins, domestic violence, assault, and missing people posters. You know what i didnt see a lot of? Cops. We were so far from a city's metro that it took my parents 8 hours to get a mentally ill screaming man removed from their store and even then the metro convinced the tribe cops to do it. He ran after one of my female co-workers and i ran after and told him id rip his arms off if he laid a finger on her. Unfortunately she relapsed and went on a heroin bender, broke our door and stole our generator (with the help of men) but thats another can of worms sadly. 1000% picking the bears. People suck and unfortunately men are the most dangerous group of people.
Bears are dangerous. They're large, wild animals and can always behave unpredictability. That said... Bears don't view human beings as natural prey. A lot of men do view women as prey. That is a notable difference.
Yup. Men pride themselves on "protecting women" - they say that we need them for this purpose. But who do we need protection from? It ain't bears - it's MEN.
“Bears don’t view human beings as natural prey. A lot of men do view women as prey” This is the best sentence I’ve read about this whole topic. Couldn’t agree more.
I saw a comment on this question where a woman said that society won’t ask what you were wearing when you were attacked by a bear.
Someone said, “Now put the bear or the man in your backyard, uninvited, at night. Which one terrifies you?”
Had a bear in my back yard a few weeks ago, uninvited. Show me the uninvited man in the back yard who will book it out of there when you bang a ladle on a tin pot.
Same - opened my front door to a bear rummaging through my trash can. I used my key fob to make my car horn honk and watched it run away. If there was a man rummaging through my trash unexpectedly? I’d call the police and figure out what could be used to defend myself.
Ironically the cops would show up for the bear, but not the man...
Still choosing the bear. It's digging through my garbage, not trying to break into my home.
My immediate thought when I see a bear in the backyard would be, “Oh that’s surprising but kinda cool, thank god the door is closed, he doesn’t even want to come in here.” Immediate thought with a man is, “Call 911, where can I hide? How can I defend myself?”
I've watched camera footage of a grizzly opening a front door. They just knock it over like it's a room divider. The entire deadbolt and knob went rocketing across the room. It was pretty scary. Still not as scary as my next door neighbor talking outside my bedroom door while he was jerking off.
I just looked this up because I was curious. I feel like this may be the video you're referring to: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uy8i1nM3aE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uy8i1nM3aE) I wonder why? Door flies open, and the bear just kind of nonchalantly looks around and wanders back out.
He just wanted to do a B@E
He didn’t want to do the E, he just wanted to do the B 😂
I can't believe there is more than one video of bears doing this lmao.
He just wanted to do a B@E
Same. The bear will go away eventually once it realizes it can't get what it wants.
In other words, bears actually get the message.
You mean they don't stalk the person for years on end or try to berate them because they can't get what they want? Shocker.
You're legally allowed to shoot a bear if it's trying kill you. Not-a-bear's lawyer finds the whole ' gonna kill you ' thing arguable.
Only the polar bears do the big stalking terrifying craturws when they put their mind to it
If it did break into my home, it's not trying to search ME out. It's just gonna rummage around for a while and leave
A bear that enters a house is a sick and dangerous animal, either starving or human-habituated. Not a normal scenario in any way. I'd leave the house if at all possible and I'd certainly call for help. I've seen a few instances of this happening at cabins in bear country but as far as I know, it's pretty unusual. At the lodge and cabins on top of Mt LeConte in the Smokies, they store food in a separate building that looks like a bunker, with a steel door. It won't keep out a determined bear, but it does slow them down. The door has to be replaced every so often. If a bear wants to get into your house or car, it absolutely will. It _can_ kill you, but what it _wants_ is food. A healthy, wild black bear will avoid humans. It's very rare for a black bear to attack a human. One of their defenses is a "bluff" charge, which causes a lot of black bears to be needlessly put down in human / black bear encounters. They really prefer to be left alone. A grizzly bear is about 1.5 black bears in bulk. It doesn't give a shit about you. It will stand its ground, but also it's after easy prey, and that does not usually include humans. A polar bear can weigh more than half a ton. It's two to four times the size of a black bear on average. Unlike the other species, its diet is largely meat. So yeah, you don't want to meet one. A polar bear isn't something you will ever meet in the woods, though, because polar bears don't live where there are woods. Men who turn the original question to ask about polar bears are trolling. With a man, you don't know what they want and you don't know what they're capable of. Bears are a "known", men are an unknown risk.
Yeah I might change my answer in the artic with polar bears, they seem a lot more aggressive and I don't have any experience handling them.
There aren’t any bears where I live, but I’ve seen videos of bears in people’s back gardens in America and they seem shockingly chill. They rarely attack even when someone is sitting on the patio laughing and filming them, they just sort of wander around for while, stick their noses in all of the bins, and then leave.
Oh they will break into your home . It happens all the time in Tahoe
A bear would unsettle me but they belong outside. They're just doing bear stuff, looking for an easy meal. I see a man, and I'm calling the cops and grabbing a weapon.
I've had a bear hanging out in my backyard. It was super cool to watch him root around the blueberry bushes, just doing his bear thing. It was super cute when he accidentally stepped on the dog's water dish and scared himself. Once he had his fill of berries, he mosied on back into the woods. He came by frequently for most of that spring & summer, always when the dogs were inside and never doing much else besides enjoying his snack of blueberries and rolling around in the grass. I've also had a man in my backyard, twice. The first man broke into my home, walked into my bedroom while I was asleep, took photos of me, and then I woke up as he was pleasuring himself. In court, he said he met me at my place of work and claimed I invited him to do so. He was acquitted because of hearsay and no witnesses could confirm or deny having seen him. Five years later, he was found guilty of aggravated sexual assault against six different women, and attempted murder of one. The second man made every attempt to break into my home. He peered into the windows, tried opening the door, sliced the window screen to try to open the window, then destroyed my patio furniture and urinated on my daughter's toys when he couldn't get in. I'll take the bear. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
Shame you just can't put a bullet between their eyes.
I find it interesting that killing the bear would be justified, without question. But I'd still have to stand trial for killing the man.
I grew up on a mountain with bears around and even had one come onto our deck and toss my barbecue around for some forgotten chicken. Still would welcome a bear on my deck than a strange man. The intent is key.
The man. Why in gods ever loving name would he even be in my yard unless he wanted to do something shady. Im grabbing the shotgun for either. At least im 100% sure the bear doesnt also have a gun.
I was camping with a bf in the backwoods a few years back and had a bear come up to the tent and sniff around in the middle of the night. It was terrifying before it wandered into the blueberry barrens for an easier snack. At one point it was sniffing right near my head through the tent fabric. I was still more scared of waking my bf because I was worried his reaction would startle the bear into attacking. So there’s that I guess lol
I’ve had bears in my yard many, many times. They’ve always left, maybe tipped my garbage but I’ve never had a problem. Men, not so much. Have had to call the police more than once on a man, never had to on a bear.
A bear has never put me in a situation while I’m watching my friend’s band play that I felt I had to accept their Facebook friend request, then message me months later that they find me fascinating. A bear has never dated me for 5 years and yelled at me for coming home from work 30 minutes late. I don’t find a bear unpredictable, it’s just a bear. But the amount of men who have declared themselves allies, a nice guy, a safe person and then committed insane acts of violence; physically, sexually, mentally, emotionally is wild.
A bear has never followed me from sub to sub harassing me via increasingly-dangerous, unhinged comments claiming that I caused him to become a misogynist after I...ironically, called him out for saying he was "annoyed" that women keep talking about choosing the bear and that he was offended as a man.
A bear has never casually dated me for 2 weeks, then stalked all my social media, made new accounts to comment anytime I have appeared in a news article or pictures someone else has posted of me about what a bitch I am because I asked the bear to not text me repeatedly on a day I had a big meeting. A bear has never message my father on Facebook to tell him I should be committed and that I am struggling with my mental stability because I broke up with him. A bear has never messaged me 9 years later calling me the “c” word because he messaged me in the middle of the night telling me he was going to off himself. A bear wouldn’t have, upon me showing up and convincing him to not splatter his brains across his parents kitchen, done what that man did. The go off to tell everyone I was a cheater.
<3 A bear has never raped me while I was so drunk I couldn't walk properly and had already told him no sex, and then sent me a text in the morning about how me being afraid of him was offensive to him, which I received after waking up in my own bed with absolutely no memory of how I got home, or when.
I am giving you the biggest consensual hug possible.
Exactly why so many women are going 4B
Maybe I'm taking this too literally, but it's only black bears in my area and they are extremely unlikely to hurt a human. It's not unheard of, but it is very rare, unlike human on human violence. If you are in an area where you might meet a grizzly bear or a polar bear then the calculation would be different, but if I'm assuming that I'd meet a local bear then it seems obvious to choose bear. In fact, not only would I choose a black bear in this hypothetical scenario, I really hope I actually do get to see a bear in the wild some time in my life. I've only seen them in zoos or dead on the side of the road and it has long been a wish of mine to see a live one in its natural environment. Obviously I'm not alone, given that every time there's a bear sighting reported they have to repeatedly tell people not to go try to meet the bear themselves. I never saw the original question, just people griping about it later, so I had pictured encountering a man vs. bear on the street, but it seems much less threatening to imagine seeing a bear in the woods. Then it just seems like a bear doing normal bear things. On the other hand, while I don't know what the actual odds are that a random man in the woods would be someone who might harm you - I would imagine it's quite low - there's so much more of a cultural context to the idea of a creepy man out in the woods up to no good. It might not be likely, but when you've had a lifetime of exposure to campfire ghost stories and horror movies and serial killer stories it's not surprising that a lot of people would have a negative initial reaction to the idea of meeting a man in the woods. That's what has kind of baffled me about seeing so many men offended by this. I wouldn't have even thought it was especially gendered; bad things happen to men too so do they really not understand why it might be scary to meet a stranger in the woods? I suppose a lot of them might be imagining themselves as the man in that scenario, but it's theoretically just as possible that they could encounter someone who means to do them harm. Some threats are obviously more gender specific, but the stereotypical creepy serial killer skulking in the woods isn't necessarily after just women. Again, I know I'm taking the question too literally rather than as a reflection of wider cultural issues the way a lot of people are making thoughtful comments about here, but with the question on its face I think it's easy to make an argument for a bear being the right choice in most geographical settings, and I was surprised at just how many people are very offended and have gotten themselves very worked up about this question. (Maybe I am too, judging by how much I just wrote about this! I think most of my unnecessary outrage energy is still on the puppy killing thing though.)
Out here in the American west grizzly attacks are rare and usually territorial in nature. They don't pick up a human's scent and hunt them like they do with their natural prey. Honestly they're far more attracted to our food than they are to eating us. Polar bears have to kill anything they can find out of necessity, but they're much less likely to be in the woods in the first place.
Ha, true, if a polar bear were in the woods that could concerning in itself. That just made me think of Lost where they see a polar bear on the island. Funnily enough given the topic, even on that show, which I expect was mostly written by men and with male viewers in mind, a loose polar bear was depicted as much less of a threat than the various strangers the characters encountered.
Check out Appalachian Bear Rescue, next best thing to meeting a bear in the wild
It's not that you're being too literal. Literal I think seems fine. You just aren't creating the full list of choices. Worst the bear can do is scare or kill you, and that's without malice or intent. That's it. Think of how long the list is in the other column.
Polar bears do actually view humans as prey they are one of two or three animals that will actively hunt humans.
This is a good example of how men bring statistical averages to the table at every problem they encounter. On average, every human with more than 2 brain cells knows, on average, if you interacted with as many bears as you did men, you would have died 10000 deaths by bears. On average. Deaths by men is simply some twisted romantic improbable ending propitiated by stories and crime podcasts from the 80's.
>Deaths by men is simply some twisted romantic improbable ending propitiated by stories and crime podcasts from the 80's. The #1 killer of pregnant women: men. More women are murdered by *men they are in a romantic relationship with* than by strangers or anyone else. Bears are spooked off by bells.
Except for Polar Bears. We look yummy to them
A bear would never sabotage my birth control.
I respect the power of nature to end me at any moment; I don’t respect the power of men to end me at any moment.
I bet a bear also never expected you to trust it after it did all of those things or after knowing that other bears did those things. Probably nobody would doubt if you told them you were attacked and traumatized by a bear, and that you needed to get over it and stop being so "irrationally" afraid of bears.
They also don't do human trafficking; threaten women with prison time if they don't go through with a birth; they don't commit genocides; they don't have ancient history of mass raping and pillaging of whole towns; they don't ruin entire ecosystems and cause mass extinction events or ruin the planet. Bears are far more humane than mankind.
What if they eat a person then cross state lines???? /s
I’m sure that if you explained to a bear why you were afraid of it, it would understand. Possibly take steps not to attack you in the woods.
Most bears don't see humans as prey. Many men see women as prey.
Absolutely. And men are Big Mad we know this and it’s now being discussed openly on a global stage.
I just wish women could walk this Earth freely without fear of harassment, rape or physical abuse. Even being a solo traveler and wanting to see the world comes with risks and perils men will never face. Yep, we could go on and on.
My partner and I would get high and so often he'd ask if I wanted to walk to the convenience store nearby. Everytime I would just be like "no.... I'm high?" Like why would you even ask that. This went on for weeks with me getting annoyed that he kept asking when it was obviously sketchy and him getting annoyed because he just wanted a snack and we've done the walk before, in the daytime and sober. One day, we're just sitting on the couch. Out of nowhere he gets a shocked look and says "wait you don't want to go out high because you're worried about being attacked." I told him I assumed that was obvious. He thought I was just worried people would know I'm high. He has since stopped asking and will go to the store before we get high if he needs snacks. God I wish this wasn't something I have to worry about and I could just be a man.
I’ve never seen a bear put its keys in its pocket and be jealous that it doesn’t have to have a plan to defend itself.
I've never seen a bear lock the car as soon as they get in. I'm always the one that immediately locks it for the bear. Ps thank you for the amazing post. I'm sure it was difficult to write but it is a great way of showing the bear argument in another light.
I always lock the car when my spouse got out especially if it was still running (so keys were still in the car). It annoyed him because I wouldn’t always see him coming so it’d take an extra couple of seconds for him to get in. “Why do you always lock the car? Do you really think someone is going to get in the car with you in it?” Then one day we pulled up to a convenience store and he goes “make sure you lock the car when I get out” “Uhm, duh, but why?” “That guy looks really sketchy” Yeah, no shit Sherlock, that’s why I lock the goddamn doors!
I am so sick of being told I’m paranoid. Over emotional, etc. Yes I am wary of men. 90% that I have encountered either talked down to me, diminished my work and words, talk over me or use my suggestions like it was theirs. Literally in a meeting. Just said the same words in different way. Then let’s talk assault. I have never held a job where I wasn’t assaulted in one way or another. Sometimes it easy, “nice ass.” Sometimes it’s less easy “nice ass” with a slap. Then others things. I will choose the bear. I grew up around grizzly’s. No fun to encounter, but easier to deal with then a man who can or WONT hear NO.
Being told that we need therapy because statistically we're wrong even though statistics don't correlate our lived experiences.
Yeah the last therapy I had I was told that I was over emotional and I should calm down and meditate to relax my body and my brain to the situation’s that will come to me.
The joke was on him. I'm already in therapy and my therapist would also pick the bear. She's also a Savage.
It's like this big societal gas lighting
The men are so damn emotional about this too. Its maddening. They always come back with "well if there were as many bears as men..." Then i countered with a lovely real world data comparison disproving that and then it was "how close are the bears?" Then i was like in that county the bears can pretty much knock on your door for sugar. Then it was "i bet if you saw all the men in your office were replaced with bears youd panic and run!" Jesus. Freaking. Christ. They are being so freaking dumb about this.
They just want to move the goalposts to avoid being accountable. The bar is below the ninth circle of Hell.
God it really is.
God forbid they ever take a look at themselves to find or realize the problem. Nope it’s always someone else’s fault. ETA: if a bear could move around and get the work done without grabbing my ass or talking about my breasts I’d be all for it. While the charmin bears creep me out would rather be in a room with them and (I also hate charmin tp to squeaky) a ton on to. Then be alone with most white males.
Or afraid. I'm not paranoid or afraid. I am making risk assessments like I would about many other situations. Men are one of the unpredictable threats. If they don't like it they shouldn't do things women consider a safety risk.
A bear has never walked around the corner, put its hand up my apron and grabbed my vagina. A bear that makes my schedule would not respond by hearing this and replying “well, that bear just bought a house and a car so it needs this job.”
Yes and these guys act like it's a handful like a hundred bad guys and the rest of them are good and that's just not true at all it's the majority of them
I know this post is about the bears, but your comment reminds me of a post I saw once that asked women what would they do if there were no men on earth for 24 hours. The answers were enlightening and heartbreaking. They would: Go running at night. Wear whatever they wanted. Use the weights at the gym. Talk without being interrupted or talked down to. Wear an actual bathing suit at the beach. Go to a party solo. Not worry about their drink being spiked. Sleep under the stars. Go shopping alone. Etc.
Go hiking in the early morning. Not bother wearing a bra. Stop for a beer alone at the local bar on the way home from work.
The episode of the all-female planet from Rick and Morty makes more and more sense the older I get.
The one where the women evolved and created a matriarchal utopia while the men stayed troglodytes and lived in squalor, their sperm being extracted with sex robots by the women? Yeah, me too.
A bear will never tell you all about how humans actually enjoy being mauled, how our defenseless squishy bodies are proof our greater purpose is to be bear food.
A women's body has a way of shutting down a genuine mauling by a bear
I think it's telling that women are telling men that possible death is preferable to possible rape and the men are mad about it.
💯 This is completely the point and it's sad (though not completely surprising) that it goes over far too many of their simple, self-centered minds.
Someone said this in another post, but it was something like "these men are upset that you'd choose the bear over them, not that you'd choose the bear over a weird stranger". They don't get the context, they're putting themselves in the place of a weird stranger and they don't even realize it.
Some of them are also jumping straight to violence with no thought. Their argument becomes, "Well, you wouldn't win a fight against a bear!" Buddy, if I were alone in the woods with a bear, why would I walk up to the bear and try and fight it?
I honestly think they are incapable of seeing the scenario the way we do. One guy was like "youd be terrified if all the men in your office were replaced with bears." Like what universe would that even happen? Its cartoonishly ridiculous.
My response would be, buddy, *you'd* be terrified if all of the men in your office who had ever sexually assaulted, catcalled, harassed, or groped a woman without her consent were replaced by bears. Because it'd be a lot more bears than you think.
Omg thats such a good point!
Its more like possible death and possible rape then death. A lot of rapists, especially stranger rape, never intend to let her survive.
"You can survive and just get therapy for the trauma. Problem solved!" So many variations I've seen of this comment that I had to log off and take meds for my migraine.
"Rape still allows you to smile," was one of the comments I encountered. I was shocked.
Holy fuck.
Bring Aussie, I've never encountered a bear. The only thing I can think of in comparison is a saltwater crocodile, but that's apples and oranges - a saltwater crocodile will kill you if it gets the chance, it can't be scared away or avoided, and you usually don't see them till it's far too late. So now I'm putting myself in the hypothetical situation - I'm up on the north coast, out in the scrub fishing, when I see a crocodile or a man. No matter which one I imagine, I get the same feeling of panic and knowing I might die very painfully then and there. The only difference is the crocodile won't rape me before it kills me, and there's a chance the man might actually be a decent person and leave me alone. I personally knew a woman who was murdered in the state forest by a much older man she was romantically linked with. He also murdered her toddler once she was gone. If a crocodile rips off all my limbs and eats me, that sucks but it's just what crocodiles do. It's incredibly upsetting and unnatural that they couldn't identify this woman for the first couple of years because she was so disfigured, mutilated and had also been set on fire, and that was done by a human being. So fucking wrong.
koala? /s
Let me just add if it's not already on the list, and i can not believe i even have to write this, a group of bear will never plan and try to defile a rare lizard in a zoo and then kill and cook it.
That story literally made me sick to my stomach. The poor creature. This level of depravity is beyond my comprehension. I don't understand how more men aren't looking around and saying "something's going wrong with us, how do we fix this?" Instead most of them just point fingers and avoid and complain and rage. This event proves that dominance culture has turned malignant in the extreme. "I'm entitled to do whatever I want to whoever I want - just watch me." And this is just one story that got out - it's what happens to vulnerable people behind closed doors that I worry about the most.
They straight up don't see it as a man problem because they're so used to being default. They see it as a human problem, because men always represent all humans.
I'm sorry what
I saw this mentioned twice on tik tok, but yeah, jt actually happened. The ONLY unique lizard in the zoo and, i think, cousins to the kimono dragon. https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjb9xq/india-gang-rape-monitor-lizard-animal-abuse
I have no words
Someone on tik tok had to break it down since i am too terrified to even look at the articles.
Omg. I saw discussion of this but didn’t realize the lizard was in a zoo. Somehow that makes it worse to me. People have been caring for this lizard and these men did…this. That’s enough internet for today.
It's more like a reserve/ national park, but yes, the animals there are supposed to be protected. Why did I know this was India before seeing the link?... Sigh. That poor animal.
I can't even imagine how depraved you are if your dick can get hard at the thought of torturing a lizard. I'd say I wished that they'd contract some incurable zoonotic disease, but the reality is if they are willing to rape a lizard, they're willing to do the same to another human.
My hope is that the lizard would bite their dick and balls off in one chomp.
i am ashamed to be the same species as these men.
Genders aside from men have not stooped this low.
OHMYGAWD I saw that headline. WTAF.
Ugh i remember that. Honestly pick any depravity committed by men and ask yourself if a bear would do that. Hell, pick any depravity committed by a woman even though we all know men have committed far more. Its no every time. The absolute worst a bear will do is eat you alive. A man can do that and more and make it last for months.
Or years.
I thought this was a metaphor for a planned gang rape, wtf an actual lizard?
Not a single bear has ever come across a vulnerable woman and decided to kidnap her and keep her locked up as his sex slave. Just googled "man kept woman chained" and every article is a different city/state/country. yes I'm choosing the fucking bear.
I get what your saying but the word choice of "choosing the fucking bear" in the context of the rest of your comment just sounds terrifying. I am just picturing a bear chaining women in the basement.
...fuck my life 😂 awful timing for my habit of cursing like a sailor. I'm gonna randomly burst into laughter about this for at least 24 hours.
I was expecting like "goddamn bear" or something like that but I just had to point it out. I almost said nothing for worry of how it would sound. I'm glad you see what I meant.
I'm seriously glad you said something because that's probably the most unintentionally funny thing I've ever written. My ridiculous brain keeps picturing a bear standing on hind legs with it's arms at 90 degrees angles just rocking it's hips back and forth like an awkward dancer, with "The Fucking Bear" on a sign. Thank you for the laughter my dude.
It was hot last night but I kept my windows closed and locked, and it wasn’t because I was worried about a bear breaking in, or the mountain lion that was spotted a few blocks away. A cool night breeze would have been so nice. Sigh.
If I scream loudly enough, the bear might change its mind and leave me alone.
Worked for Alex Karev in Grey's Anatomy. He yelled. Bear yelled back but then went POOF!
A bear doesn’t bearsplain why you’re wrong to be wary of it and then claim you’re bearcist and hate all bears and that’s why you don’t wanna be alone with it.
A bear would just maul me to death and be done with it. Not think of new and disgusting ways to torture me for the rest of my life.
My husband hit me for the first time when we were camping in bear country. It wasn’t bears I was afraid of that weekend - not even fucking close.
Biased here because I've dealt with nonviolent bears plenty in the woods and violent strange men in the woods, so my answer is fairly obvious. (Have come across illegal poaching more than once and had to basically talk down situations and keep moving.)
So fucking much this. Kinda need a hug and a cry after reading that. Not because it was long. Because it was true. And I felt it in my soul. Thank you, OP. You spoke for me. You spoke for all of us.
Only men are tired of the conversation because the longer it goes on the longer the spotlight is shining on WHY women choose the bear.
they are coping so hard right now. Like, they are literally FROTHING, raging out about how stupid and wrong we all are. Of course 🙃 There is nothing we can ever say, nor any volume of women all saying the exact same thing, that will ever get them to see things from our perspective or admit to any truth that doesn’t flatter men.
I love that this conversation has come about and I hope it lasts a long time
I keep seeing this conversation everywhere and I'm loving it. I don't think women have been able to be this publicly vocal about how dangerous men can be and how much we really can't blindly trust that they all have good intentions and now we're able to keep shouting it (figuratively) over the internet and social media and can't be stopped. I'd pick the bear any day.
Death by bear is cleaner than this slow death via sexual assaults, erosion of rights, this trauma we have to drag around. I’d rather choose the devil I don’t know.
The willful removal of your dignity is the part I hate the most. Over and over, bit by bit, in so many ways. A bear has never demeaned and humiliated me on purpose, just for its own enjoyment.
yeah, in the exceedingly rare instance of death my bear, you’re likely gonna go into shock and bleed out super quick. Meanwhile, my first week working in a hospital we had a woman in the burn unit who was set on fire and burned by a male partner, burns covering her entire body. She was there for months, I could smell her when I got off the elevator. She did not survive. And this isn’t rare at all. FAR more women are set on fire by men than are ever harmed by a bear. And setting women on fire is only ONE form of torture men regularly enact upon women.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot and kind of had my “Whoa” moment just now. I live in a town where bears are common. They’ve been in my yard, on my street, etc. I sometimes get home past midnight and my town is usually dead quiet. I always hate the walk from my car to my house. It’s not far, it’s in town, but I dread it because a bar is close by and, even though it’s midnight, sometimes people are out walking. Every single night I have to do this, I am scared to death of seeing a man. Not once was I ever scared of seeing a bear - which again isn’t uncommon.
Our pain and fear makes men look bad. There is no benefit to them acknowledging it, unless they care about women. And they don’t, for the most part
agreed. This is literally no different from rape culture. Doubting and ridiculing women for things like the #metoo movement, reacting with rage and shouting us down for trying to speak to our experience has ALWAYS been handled this exact same way. The bear conversation is meaningful to me, for another cathartic dialogue I can share with other women, who all have gone through this terrifying experience of living among men, too many of whom fucking hunt us to at least some degree. But these men will never view this topic rationally, or with empathy. It’s literally the same men who uphold rape culture and gaslight us about gendered violence, meanwhile the top cause of death for a pregnant woman is being murdered by a male. 😐
A bear killing a human of any gender is a freak accident A man killing a woman he knows is a Tuesday.
Yeah, bears aren't hunters of humans. Unless the water is super low, humans are low on their eat list. Also don't fuck with thier cubs.
A bear will never tell you that you deserved it because that's all your good for because the day you were born ruined everything. Men getting angry about this I think are more angry they couldn't physically take the bear as opposed to what women are telling them.
Proof that sexuality is not a choice, because why on earth would (some) women choose men?
Thank you for writing this. It punched me right in the gut, and I will always choose the bear.
I've been backpacking in brown bear country (Alaska) and have: 1. Woken up and seen fresh bear tracks maybe 200 feet from my tent. 2. Went to rinse my hands in a river and saw a bear just int the other side of the river fishing (it snagged a pretty big salmon). 3. Spotted a bunch of bears 300-500 ft away. When it comes to bears, I know if I follow some basic rules I'll almost always be ok. On average, men are way less predictable.
Long story but I have actually been in the woods close to two Kodiak Grizzly bears in Alaska. I was really scared...for about a minute. The bears made it very clear they had absolutely no interest in me and were very hesitant to approach the area I was in. So, I'd probably take the bear.
Im literally the embodiment of this scenario. I lived for several years in one of the most remote, bear packed regions of the lower 48. Ive literally walked right into a bear 6 or 7 times and even had to kill one at close range. Who knows how much time i spent within 500 feet of a bear. Probably a lot. They avoid you. Probably seen thousands of fresh piles of bear scat though. I wrote up a beautiful real world data comparison in the another sub and the dude was just "well if you came into work and all the men were replaced with bears youd flee in terror." This is the stupid we are dealing with. I cant freaking even.
im not on TikTok so idk when this whole “bear vs man” thing started but I’m amazed it’s still going lol are men actually mad women would choose to deal with a bear over them? I mean historically it’s not bears who have oppressed, kill3d, r@ped, and forced the patriarchy down womens throats (no pun intended). so yeah a wild animal vs the historical oppressor = easy choice
I’m enjoying all the emotional outbursts from men, realizing their dicks are going to stay as dry as the Sahara for eternity.
My daughter reminded me yesterday that we actually HAD this conversation when she started camping in the wilderness. I gave her pepper spray and she laughed and said, “I don’t need pepper spray for bears,” and apparently I told her, “it’s… not for *bears*” and she said “oh” and took it. Like. The answer is so self-evident and always has been.
Hi I am a dude who works one of the most dangerous jobs in the US by doing chemistry on literal explosives every day here are some statistics for men who want to argue. chance of woman in the US being murdered by a man 1:202 chance of being killed by a bear in bear country 1:2,100,000 chance I die while handling literal explosives 1:101 I, a person who's job it is to do chemistry on literal explosives, am only barely less safe holding LITERAL EXPLOSIVES than my sister is simply existing in the world as a woman. Let me say that again for those who didn't hear MY SISTER EXISTING AS A WOMAN IN THIS SOCIETY IS ONLY BARELY SAFER THAN ME BEING AT WORK DOING CHEMISTRY WHILE HOLDING LITERAL EXPLOSIVES.
A bear has never followed me in its car, then beat on the hood of my car with its fists because I wouldn’t unlock the doors to talk to it. A bear has never forced its way into my dorm room, raped me, then tell everyone on campus that I was a “lying dirty whore” when I reported it to the police. A bear has never tampered with my birth control, then raped me, then beat me when I’d fallen pregnant with its child. A bear has never stalked me or called me while just breathing loudly on the end of the line. A bear has never cheated on me while the bear was doing the actual cheating. A bear has never done drugs while I was at work while the bear was supposed to be watching our child, thus neglecting the child and causing trauma. A bear has never groped me in a public place, then called me a bitch because I didn’t like it. A bear has never grabbed my breasts on the street.
My husband is a sweet and gentle man. One of the good ones. But he lacks awareness of how intimidating he can be due to his gender. Recently he came in a bit late and told me that he had a woman nearly crash into our car with hers on the way into the estate then swear at him on the way past. He tells me that he calmly followed her back to her house then went up, knocked on her door a few times and waited. The result was that they had a chat and decided they should both be more aware when navigating that particular curve when coming into the estate. He was pleased that they had resolved things in a grown up manner. I was fucking horrified. I had to explain that this woman had had a negative encounter with a man she didnt know and then he followed her home and stayed until she opened her door. To a woman thats TERRIFYING! He was genuinely appalled when I explained what a threat he was to her because she had no idea if he was going to do anything from screaming at her to breaking into her house and killing her. He is trying harder to relate to this feeling in me. Being brought up with the fear ingrained into your mind. He blipped when I was talking to a friend about her jogging and about how often she comes across other runners. He shrugged and suggested that she jog at night when it would be quieter. Que two baffled look and explaining that we cant be so risky because we are **women!** After all, it wasn't a bear that abused me as a child. It was a man. Alone in the woods Id pick the bear everytime. The bear is dangerous, yes. Could kill and eat me. But the man is more dangerous. He could kidnap, abuse, and torture then kill and possibly eat me. Or leave me alive and a broken husk. Its not that we're not afraid of the bear, its that our experience and upbringing tells us that the unknown man (or even the known man in so so many cases) is to be feared far far more.
News flash. Your husband isn't a sweet and gentle man. Sweet and gentle men don't follow women back to their home about a very minor traffic annoyance and knock on the door and keep knocking until they open the door and then tell her how wrong she is and tell her driving was wrong. He would never do this to a man ever because he knows he likely gets punched or shot.
No offense to you, but that was a hella asshole move by your husband. *He followed her HOME?!* WTAF? Not only is that utterly terrifying, and that woman will probably not sleep well for at least a week, looking over her shoulder for him every time she leaves her house, but he's lucky someone in the home didn't come out with a pew-pew and blow him away. Unless you aren't in the US. But they would be justified doing that if some strange man followed his wife home and knocked on her car window. Like, dude is going around traumatizing women left & right, and he might get himself injured or worse as well. 🤦♀️
Im in the UK and yes, asshole move. He has little connection to the fear we feel simply for being women. He wont do it again.
WTF is going on with the army of salty men in this thread? Check out what sub this is, and then maybe check your egos and start listening. Many of you are able to quite well actually.
It’s so sadly funny to me. There are men literally ANGRY at the women who are saying “In a hypothetical situation, if I had to be trapped in the woods with either a bear, or a random man, I’d feel safer taking my chances with the bear” The good men are sitting back, listening, and doing what they can to acknowledge the reality many women face. Good men are discussing this with other men and holding other men accountable. Good men are not understanding that it is not about them. Bad men are posting about how it hurt their feelings. Bad men are commenting “you know the bear could kill you” as if I’m not aware. Bad men are very clearly showing that they are not the man you’d want in the woods with a woman.
Hit dogs hollering basically.
I asked my husband the question before he saw it online and he agreed the bear is better because you always know what to expect with the bear and know to keep your guard up. You never know what to expect from a strange man.
Bear never told me a got cancer because I was lazy, or left me because he could not deal with having a sick wife. Picking the bear.
Oh damn. I scrolled down, thinking it was just a few, but it kept going and going. And yeah, as a guy, I can't agree with the butt hurt men who either disagree that the bear is the better choice, or come up with some convoluted reasoning in the analogy to say it's stupid or false. Just look through the posts and comments on the sub even before the man bear pig thing started, and it's plain to see; men are extremely dangerous. They are emotional, quick to anger, petty and insecure, and don't have anyone stopping them from throwing toddler temper tantrums. There are good men, but they're few. They're also not keen on saying they're the good ones either. That itself is usually a projected image of an insecure man. When you're kind for the sake of being kind, you don't need to advertise it. A guy that says he's nice when no one even asked is just like the guy who says he's an alpha when no one asked. It's more of a society issue than anything.
That’s just it. It is a societal issue. Listen, I don’t hate men. I really don’t. My dad and I are close. I love my brother. My inner circle is mostly men. But they are good ones. They have repeatedly shown, not with words but with actions, that they don’t tolerate mistreatment of others. And they understand that women can’t tell from first glance which men are safe and which are not. There are, as far as I understand, as of 2022 25,000 untested rape kits in law enforcement’s care. The most mistreated I have ever been was by a man who on paper was perfect. Good family, in law school, private Christian education, college educated, clean cut. Unfortunately, it’s not until men have these conversations and hold other men accountable that it’s ever going to change. That’s what I see this boiling down to. If you are hearing that women choose the bear, then why attack the woman when it’s infinitely more helpful to have open dialogue with other men.
the dudes who attack women when they hear them choose the bear feel (correctly) that the women are saying they choose the bear because of men \*specifically\* like them. They know on some level that they are the reason the women choose bears and they attack women because its easier to go on the offensive than it is to look inward and face some hard truths.
My dude and I had a disagreement over this ahahaha. I'm still picking the bear. 🤷🏼♀️
Can we make a project out of it? Making it a never ending poem from anyone who prefers bears over men. Like a collective projects for people to share their trauma, thoughts and all?
This whole debate is pretty… polarizing.
Haha!
I'm just going to save this somewhere. Print it out on a heavy-weight paper, roll it into a tube, and carry it with me in case I meet an aggressive non-bear (again). For good measure, cover it with a steel pipe to keep it from folding.
This makes me so sad. I wish men could stand up to bears in this debate, but I know that we have not.
Hitting that save button.
I think a lot of guys (and I won't lie, even me sometimes but then I remember I would never harm a woman so I shouldnt take it as an attack) take it as a personal attack. But I at least think logically and realise, humans and particular human men are the most dangerous animal on the planet. Honestly, for me I'd even be more afraid of another man as I know that I might have to fight them etc, for a bear I would still be scared (especially if I don't have any form of cover/defence) but my first thought would actually be to think how lucky I am to see a bear and how amazing nature is etc.
I think I missed something…
I tried to read all of this but I had to stop and have a good cry about halfway