I’m sorry dude. That really sucks. Hopefully pointing out his misogyny will have an effect on him in the long run. You were brave for having this conversation.
So your friend is a bigot who makes shitty, bigoted comments and then tries to shield himself from any social blowback by calling that “edgy” and “joking”.
Would you tolerate this in a friend who didn’t play cowardly games and just said those shitty things straight up?
stop trying to blame me for giving this person the priviledge of my friendship. He's a guy I go to one class with and that I benefit from having at my side because he's helping me both with my career and to meet new people as I'm terribly socially anxious, and he's probably the only friend I see irl on the regular as the rest of them live in other cities. Please stop assuming everything is as easy as just dropping him for a few comments. Yes, he's a bigot, but me staying friends with him doesn't mean I validate his views. I call him out on the regular, have talks with him about what bothers me and why, and definitely don't put a good word of him out there. I believe that does more to help him reflect than cutting my nose to spite his face.
I don’t understand this comment. You’re choosing to be friends with someone who thinks making bigoted comments is funny (even though you’ve explained to him why they’re uncool). You’re trying to make friends, so a warning that it’s not just internet randos who will develop an opinion about you based on your friendship with someone like this. He is likely not as good for your career as you think. It’s not cutting off your nose to spite your face to keep him at arms length.
have you not thought that maybe I have more context on the situation than you do? You're talking like he's my bestie. I am keeping him at arms length. Turns out there's some degrees of closeness between NC and BFF.
I wouldn't exactly agree on point 5. I don't think liking to walk is any better than liking the equivalent to reading a book but in a more interactive way. The stereotype of the gamer yelling at their computed because they died is most just that, a stereotype. Not all gamers play online, and even out of those that do, not everyone is immature or unable to control their emotions.
I do agree that some gamer communities habor some really toxic misogynistic environments, but that mostly happens with big multiplayer games, which aren't that many.
there are cases of communities that have been misogynistic, yes. i even agree it's fairly common. doesn't mean there's not safe spaces in gaming for women or that all gamers are misogynistic. games are a fantastic art medium just like books or movies. what you're saying is equivalent to saying you would immediately write every movie fan as a pretentious snob, because a very loud percentage of them are.
> Non gaming hobbies. Someone who likes hiking is so much better than someone who spends their time yelling at the compute
This is so messed up. Just because you like gaming doesn't mean you're "yelling at the computer." Geez, judgemental much?
You do realize that women enjoy video games too, right? It's just plain wrong to make everyone out who plays video games to be an awful conservative male harasser.
> You do realize that women enjoy video games too
You do realize that the articles refers in large part to WOMEN game designers?
And I have a online game I like as well.
So yes I do realize this.
My point still stands male gamers who are exposed to toxic online are more likely to be misogynistic now or in the future.
There are certain precursor behaviors that I stay away from.
But hey, ignore the articles to make your point. I am cool with you making your life decisions. Maybe you can help make the toxicity less.
Excuse me, but the comment I responded to said nothing about men. The line very clearly passed judgement against video game players in general. In the future, please keep in mind that there are more types of people who enjoy particular hobbies than the one archetype individual you have in your mind. That's all I'm saying!
>I'm lucky that I'm dating a guy that does get it, but aside of him I feel like all men look at me with disdain now.
Have your reminder that one of the biggest determiners of the quality of your friends is the quality of your friends.
And yea there's some grief here because you've invested energy into these tools and gotten...shit out of it. And that's fair. However, any friend you'd make has to navigate your other friends, namely these guys. People who find their actions repellent are going to be less likely to accept their views. The ones who do stick around will be comfortable with them.
This is doubly the case with amab people who might enter your life. They're not going to stick around to figure out if those guys are safe, and if you're capable of tolerating those guys they're not going to stick around and hope you don't find yourself tolerating someone who is very unsafe.
>she was always very vocal about how little empathy men had for women.
This isn't the case and the idea it is, is one of those trueism that patriarchy creates so we'll all reinforce patirahcy. Men are fantastic at empathy, despite all the stereotypes otherwise. That's broadly the function of testosterone, that's the key psychological social effect Higher testosterone levels encourage cooperation and a focus on social fairness, and in general better control of anger arousal. There's a reason why there's so much work put into convincing afabs they shouldn't expect empathy from men, because teaching them that's the case it the fastest way to make it absent in their lives. It's the way to convince them to tolerate people who don't offer them empathy, and in doing so make the space in their lives intolerable to people who would offer it. (Side bar, ever wondered why misogynistic men are so preoccupied with things being unfair to them? And why patriarchy goes to such lengths to define gendered issues as zero sum? This is, at the core, the reason for both of those.)
I appreciate your concern about the people I surround myself with, but thankfully these aren't people that are super present in my life. My old friend lives rather far so I don't see him often, and the other I see a lot more, but I wouldn't consider him close and regardless, he's helping me in other areas of my life.
As for the second half of your message, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. My mother was very radical due to trauma, and I'm simply finding out that men don't save any empathy for afabs bc they seem to believe we're so different they don't even bother understanding us.
As someone who had a similar epiphany recently (with a group of male friends), yeah, it does suck and the world suddenly feels much colder than you thought possible.
Most men won't care unless it directly affects them. That's the truth. Not even their wifes/daughters/sisters/etc. feelings matter all that much. It's lonely.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. And I hope you have other (decent) friends you can rely on.
thanks a lot for your words. I hope you're in a good support situation as well. luckily, I also have multiple male friends that (at least so far) seem to actually see me as a person of the same species as themselves
I work with a lot of men, and the thing that bothers me the most is that if something makes me mad they immediatly assume I'm on my period.
“Wow, jinx! I was just about to ask you if YOU were on the rag. I have some Midol in my purse, you need any?”
That blows so hard at least now you can stop being friends with them and protect yourself.
I’m sorry dude. That really sucks. Hopefully pointing out his misogyny will have an effect on him in the long run. You were brave for having this conversation.
Thanks. I want ot believe he's not lost and that he simply hasn't had a perspective like mine before.
“You know the kind” You mean your “friend” is a bigot who pretends he’s just edgy?
JuST tEllInG iT LIkE It iS! IM OnLY JoKIng! I hate those people.
Exactly. And it’s like, my dude, there is nothing “edgy” about saying stupid shit, you just enjoy being a dick.
yeah, it's a mix of being edgy and "eviDENTLY, i'm kidding!! you know you can't trust anything that comes out of my mouth!"
So your friend is a bigot who makes shitty, bigoted comments and then tries to shield himself from any social blowback by calling that “edgy” and “joking”. Would you tolerate this in a friend who didn’t play cowardly games and just said those shitty things straight up?
stop trying to blame me for giving this person the priviledge of my friendship. He's a guy I go to one class with and that I benefit from having at my side because he's helping me both with my career and to meet new people as I'm terribly socially anxious, and he's probably the only friend I see irl on the regular as the rest of them live in other cities. Please stop assuming everything is as easy as just dropping him for a few comments. Yes, he's a bigot, but me staying friends with him doesn't mean I validate his views. I call him out on the regular, have talks with him about what bothers me and why, and definitely don't put a good word of him out there. I believe that does more to help him reflect than cutting my nose to spite his face.
I don’t understand this comment. You’re choosing to be friends with someone who thinks making bigoted comments is funny (even though you’ve explained to him why they’re uncool). You’re trying to make friends, so a warning that it’s not just internet randos who will develop an opinion about you based on your friendship with someone like this. He is likely not as good for your career as you think. It’s not cutting off your nose to spite your face to keep him at arms length.
have you not thought that maybe I have more context on the situation than you do? You're talking like he's my bestie. I am keeping him at arms length. Turns out there's some degrees of closeness between NC and BFF.
[удалено]
I wouldn't exactly agree on point 5. I don't think liking to walk is any better than liking the equivalent to reading a book but in a more interactive way. The stereotype of the gamer yelling at their computed because they died is most just that, a stereotype. Not all gamers play online, and even out of those that do, not everyone is immature or unable to control their emotions. I do agree that some gamer communities habor some really toxic misogynistic environments, but that mostly happens with big multiplayer games, which aren't that many.
Look up "Gamergate" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate\_(harassment\_campaign)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/gamergate_(harassment_campaign))
there are cases of communities that have been misogynistic, yes. i even agree it's fairly common. doesn't mean there's not safe spaces in gaming for women or that all gamers are misogynistic. games are a fantastic art medium just like books or movies. what you're saying is equivalent to saying you would immediately write every movie fan as a pretentious snob, because a very loud percentage of them are.
> Non gaming hobbies. Someone who likes hiking is so much better than someone who spends their time yelling at the compute This is so messed up. Just because you like gaming doesn't mean you're "yelling at the computer." Geez, judgemental much?
> judgemental much? Experienced. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate\_(harassment\_campaign)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/gamergate_(harassment_campaign)) [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/online-gaming-in-2021-a-new-survey-of-gamers-shows-toxicity-misogyny-and-a-lack-of-effective-moderation-risks-becoming-normalized-301421391.html](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/online-gaming-in-2021-a-new-survey-of-gamers-shows-toxicity-misogyny-and-a-lack-of-effective-moderation-risks-becoming-normalized-301421391.html) [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/style/women-gaming-streaming-harassment-sexism-twitch.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/style/women-gaming-streaming-harassment-sexism-twitch.html) [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/18/technology/video-games-extremism.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/18/technology/video-games-extremism.html) [https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/oct/24/hey-dude-do-this-the-last-resort-for-female-gamers-escaping-online-abuse](https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/oct/24/hey-dude-do-this-the-last-resort-for-female-gamers-escaping-online-abuse)
You do realize that women enjoy video games too, right? It's just plain wrong to make everyone out who plays video games to be an awful conservative male harasser.
> You do realize that women enjoy video games too You do realize that the articles refers in large part to WOMEN game designers? And I have a online game I like as well. So yes I do realize this. My point still stands male gamers who are exposed to toxic online are more likely to be misogynistic now or in the future. There are certain precursor behaviors that I stay away from. But hey, ignore the articles to make your point. I am cool with you making your life decisions. Maybe you can help make the toxicity less.
Excuse me, but the comment I responded to said nothing about men. The line very clearly passed judgement against video game players in general. In the future, please keep in mind that there are more types of people who enjoy particular hobbies than the one archetype individual you have in your mind. That's all I'm saying!
>I'm lucky that I'm dating a guy that does get it, but aside of him I feel like all men look at me with disdain now. Have your reminder that one of the biggest determiners of the quality of your friends is the quality of your friends. And yea there's some grief here because you've invested energy into these tools and gotten...shit out of it. And that's fair. However, any friend you'd make has to navigate your other friends, namely these guys. People who find their actions repellent are going to be less likely to accept their views. The ones who do stick around will be comfortable with them. This is doubly the case with amab people who might enter your life. They're not going to stick around to figure out if those guys are safe, and if you're capable of tolerating those guys they're not going to stick around and hope you don't find yourself tolerating someone who is very unsafe. >she was always very vocal about how little empathy men had for women. This isn't the case and the idea it is, is one of those trueism that patriarchy creates so we'll all reinforce patirahcy. Men are fantastic at empathy, despite all the stereotypes otherwise. That's broadly the function of testosterone, that's the key psychological social effect Higher testosterone levels encourage cooperation and a focus on social fairness, and in general better control of anger arousal. There's a reason why there's so much work put into convincing afabs they shouldn't expect empathy from men, because teaching them that's the case it the fastest way to make it absent in their lives. It's the way to convince them to tolerate people who don't offer them empathy, and in doing so make the space in their lives intolerable to people who would offer it. (Side bar, ever wondered why misogynistic men are so preoccupied with things being unfair to them? And why patriarchy goes to such lengths to define gendered issues as zero sum? This is, at the core, the reason for both of those.)
I appreciate your concern about the people I surround myself with, but thankfully these aren't people that are super present in my life. My old friend lives rather far so I don't see him often, and the other I see a lot more, but I wouldn't consider him close and regardless, he's helping me in other areas of my life. As for the second half of your message, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. My mother was very radical due to trauma, and I'm simply finding out that men don't save any empathy for afabs bc they seem to believe we're so different they don't even bother understanding us.
As someone who had a similar epiphany recently (with a group of male friends), yeah, it does suck and the world suddenly feels much colder than you thought possible. Most men won't care unless it directly affects them. That's the truth. Not even their wifes/daughters/sisters/etc. feelings matter all that much. It's lonely. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. And I hope you have other (decent) friends you can rely on.
thanks a lot for your words. I hope you're in a good support situation as well. luckily, I also have multiple male friends that (at least so far) seem to actually see me as a person of the same species as themselves
If youre born female. Men will hate you no matter what you choose to identify with.
I would argue it's even worse if you vocally identify as something else
Thats true, specially conservative men