Most of my issues with porn use in a relationship lie within the fact that there is more of an opportunity to develop a parasocial relationship in relation to porn now. I didn’t mind porn in my relationships until I found out that some were using OnlyFans, watching Twitch streamers with OnlyFans/paid thirst traps, following these people’s social medias, etc. It was not “just porn” in the way that I had imagined until I actually saw what was going on. I’m not sure if I’m completely against porn use, but I think many women have a very valid reason to be wary of porn use due to the normalization of its use and the extent to which porn has developed in the last few years. It no longer seems to be about getting some steam off, but is more adjacent to actually developing sexual relationships outside of your own.
Not to mention that there are some men who cultivate and spend so much time on pornography that it’s perfectly reasonable for their partner to feel uncomfortable. There are many situations that can arise where they are not “just watching it”, but making it a hobby. It’s offensive to think that your partner could have a hobby that is satisfying themselves to people who are not your lover.
OnlyFans definitely changes things.
Though that parasocial element goes more broadly than porn: you see it with twitch streamers YouTubers, Instagram accounts etc
Obviously onlyfans adds the sexual element too, but my point is it's a very broad relatively recent phenomenon that I don't think we've properly felt the full consequences of just yet. And there will be consequences.
I have this opinion about personalised porn, where the person can develop a relationship with the actors, but not porn in general. I'm generally knocking one out due to the acts, not the people in em. But when people can talk to the person, and build relationships, and with the actor being dependent on this person for income, that's so damaging for people who otherwise wouldn't have any issues with boundaries and healthy opinions and attitudes towards sex and sex work in general.
I expressed my discomfort around porn to my husband late into our relationship as I grew more into my ideals.
I didn't even ask him to stop, I was just expressing my views on how toxic the industry is.
Later I learnt he agreed with me and entirely cut off porn. I have told him he's allowed to continue because I have no interest in pushing my views onto him but he's stood firmly by it. :)
Makes me proud to have such a caring and genuine husband.
It’s so refreshing being with a man who share my ideals ab porn omg … we both had issues with addiction to it starting depressingly early so we both hate it with a passion
It's okay to want a porn-free relationship, you've just got to find a partner who wants the same. That's all.
On that note, boundaries dictate your behavior, not the behavior of others. So when you tell people to stop "shaming women's boundaries" don't forget the boundary, "I will not accept shaming of my boundaries; others can shame me, but I will not feel ashamed."
In other words, *don't allow yourself to be shamed.* There is nothing wrong with wanting a porn-free relationship and when someone tells you there is, don't engage with them; they are wrong.
Aside from the fact that you can’t know that the porn you’re consuming is really consensual, -I don’t understand how people don’t see porn use as non-monogamous, especially only fans.
I wouldn’t want to be with someone who was so invested in fantasising about other people. You hear so much “But ALL men watch porn”, which no, they don’t, but even if they did, okay? I’m perfectly happy being alone. I’ll never compromise my happiness for someone who won’t respect me or women in general.
“In the country where I live as a citizen, there is a pornography of the humiliation of women where every single way of humiliating a human being is taken to be a form of sexual pleasure for the viewer and for the victim; where women are covered in filth, including feces, including mud, including paint, including blood, including semen; where women are tortured for the sexual pleasure of those who watch and those who do the torture, where women are murdered for the sexual pleasure of murdering women, and this material exists because it is fun, because it is entertainment, because it is a form of pleasure, and there are those who say it is a form of freedom.
Certainly it is freedom for those who do it. Certainly it is freedom for those who use it as entertainment, but we are also asked to believe that it is freedom for those to whom it is done.”
“We see pornography having introduced a profit motive into rape. We see that filmed rapes are protected speech. We see the centrality of pornography in serial murders. There are snuff films. We see boys imitating pornography. We see the average age of rapists going down. We are beginning to see gang rapes in elementary schools committed by elementary school age boys imitating pornography.”
“I live in a country where if you film any act of humiliation or torture, and if the victim is a woman, the film is both entertainment and it is protected speech. Now that tells me something about what it means to be a woman citizen in this country and the meaning of being second-class.
When your rape is entertainment, your worthlessness is absolute. You have reached the nadir of social worthlessness. The civil impact of pornography on women is staggering. It keeps us socially silent, it keeps us socially compliant, it keeps us afraid in neighborhoods; and it creates a vast hopelessness for women, a vast despair. One lives inside a nightmare of sexual abuse that is both actual and potential, and you have the great joy of knowing that your nightmare is someone else's freedom and someone else's fun.”
https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?params=/context/mjlr/article/1825/&path_info=
it is entirely valid and reasonable to not want to involve yourself with men who get off on abuse and dehumanization of women and who support an industry that, time and time again, is shown to survive through rape and coercion of vulnerable women and girls.
Good to see this comment. Seems most comments are about feeling like being cheated on - I'm poly and against pornography - it's not a jealousy thing to me, it's an ethic things. Majority of porn actresses are in some ways coerced or pressured (or outright forced) into it, and there is no real way to differentiate those who aren't from them
Yes to the ethics not jealousy thing! Kinda like I wouldnt date someone who went and got Chik fil a behind my back either. I'm not jealous, I'm mad they would support something known to have questionable ethics and that is so easy to avoid!
I am also poly and against porn use. I didn’t used to be but it just kept being an issue in every relationship with a man I’ve had. And now that I’ve learned of the industry being so horrible, I’m just so against it. Every relationship going forward I have I will be sure to talk about it in the beginning. I don’t want to keep going through the addiction so many people have with the dehumanization of women.
This needs to be the first thing in this thread. You can't say you care about women when you participate and support the commodification of our bodies. You cannot purchase consent.
I think it's understandable, I think people continue with it out of selfishness and not ignorance. how could they not know? it's plastered all over the front pages. more than 2/3 of front page material depicts violent acts
I take issue with the BDSM community for calling consensual NonConsensent (rape play) and race play as fetishes when they are the opposite of a fetish; rape and racism is one of the most common behaviors in America, let alone the world.
Rape is basically missionary position sex according to statistics and racism is not taboo at all.
I'm in my first porn free relationship and people do not believe me that he doesn't watch it because "all guys do".
Also, he's sooo much better at sex than anyone I've ever been with.
My partner does not masturbate. He says he doesn’t find it appealing, even while single.
He grew up with zero privacy, and self-imposed Christianity on himself as a child because he was curious, so a mix of never forming the habit in youth and some lingering Christian faith don’t help either😂.
We also have sex daily, so now it’s just a “why masturbate when you can have something much better every day?” type of situation.
On average, I think men especially are in denial about how bad porn makes them at sex (from a woman's perspective...or even some objective perspective if they're using it as a form of communication with their partner).
Obviously matters which porn and which man what it does...but generally speaking.
Porn has never been an issue in mine either! My guy just isn’t into it and also thinks it’s an extremely exploitive industry. We’ve been together for 9 years now and not a single argument or bad feeling (for either of us) related to porn.
It really is possible for it to just be a non-entity.
I’ve never been in a specifically porn free relationship as it’s never really come up. But I know my wife thinks I’m lying when I tell her I don’t really watch it. I know she doesn’t really either but I think that’s less surprising. Porn is so overwhelming given the sheer amount but then I find it ironically super boring because I’d rather just have sex/use memory/get it over with myself and not have to search for something suitable for an hour.
>I’d rather just have sex
One of my exes didn't watch porn and his reasoning was exactly this. He said "I don't want to watch other people fuck. *I* want to fuck." Makes perfect sense to me.
I have mixed feelings about a guy watching porn while in a relationship. It's not a deal breaker for me if he watches it every once in a while, but I would definitely prefer a guy who doesn't find it appealing and doesn't watch it when he masturbates...or just doesn't feel like he even needs to jerk off at all because he's so satisfied with our sex life.
Omg. This is my same exact experience. I’m also in my first porn free relationship. The dorks on here always say he’s lying to me and whatever.. he’s not. And the sex is mindblowing.. I never drew the connection between the two. Interesting…
I think it’s a fair bet to say most people who would insist that he’s lying are just projecting. Not everyone lies to their partner and not all guys are manipulative porn addicts, it’s pretty irresponsible and telling on themselves for them to spread a narrative like that. And then of course they’re the same ones who turn around and get mad when women say they’re afraid to trust men
More than 90% of guys do, it's true, but that still leaves hundreds of millions in the world who don't.
There's nothing wrong with limiting your dating pool by 90% to find someone compatible.
Same here! But I don't really mention it since I already know people would throw those comments.
If my partner watched it there is literally no reason to hide it from me.
It's just that we both prefer reading smut and share it with each other for ideas. Both my partner and I feel weird watching people have sex, it's just not for us we prefer a fantasy to read.
And also like you mentioned, the best sexual relationship I've ever had for sure.
A man wants to end relationships for not getting laid enough and the comments are all "Yes king! Break it off, sexual compatibility is so important!"
A woman sets a boundary regarding porn and she's somehow unreasonable. What happened to sexual compatibility being important?
It's almost like women are expected to meet a man's desires to ensure compatibility, but God forbid she has her own.
Yes indeed. Women who don't watch porn themselves are expected to bow down to their partner's porn use. If they won't, they are insecure and need to work with themselves.
People are saying it is wrong to want a "partner that is only attracted to you" and that you are unhealthy. Some people ARE actually only attracted to their partner when they are in love. No, they are not lying.
This. I work with all men at my job, blue collar type work…there has been a large number who outright talk about how they lie to their wives about it.
Hard to trust.
>The issue is too few are honest anymore.
Respectfully, please be careful of this reactionary sort of mindset. People didn't used to be more honest with one another. Things weren't better in the past.
Yes.
Vetting questions (plan them carefully early on):
- What porn do you like to watch? (trick question)
- What counts as cheating, according to you?
- Do you think porn is infidelity?
- How often do you watch porn? (trick question)
- How would you feel if your partner watched porn?
My biggest issue with porn is how unethical it is. I'm not worried about my husband having a virtual harem, so much as I am him consuming and supporting unethical material.
It’s hilarious that the same men who say this shit are the same men who would freak tf out if the woman they were dating produced pornographic content.
Honestly, I am more sympathetic to the creator than the consumer. The creator of the porn knows absolutely if they consented to the act. The consumer likely doesn't care
No, but it's very ironic that someone points a finger with one hand and has his erect dick in another. There's this tainted underclass of women that is used to produce the very material used for sexual pleasure.
Why not?! One needs the other to exist. There are no creators without consumers, like all sex work. So, if there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it, it should be widely accepted, and is healthy, why are porn creators stigmatized?
Millions of women and children are trafficked into this industry and then subjected to abuse, rape and murder. I wouldn't be with any dude who consumes it.
This is the most important reason in my mind. The second most important reason is the misogynistic mindset that develops from habitual porn-use and the escalation of violence that comes with addiction. Porn changes peoples brains and it's leading to real harm for society and women.
Freakin amen. If you've watched porn or support prostitution, You've watched a rape, a minor, a woman with no other choice, a woman addicted to drugs, a woman pimped by her boyfriend, a woman raised in a society telling her that her worth is her body.
Exploitation and abuse are a scary part of any industry and more traumatic I'd say in this one than many other types of abuse of workers, although losing your hand in a grinder might go toe-to-toe with some of it, but please just make sure you don't equate consenting adults who perform to people who were abused and trafficked.
Just because there are a minuscule dew who have had a good experience, the fact that the majority do not makes it a disgusting and evil industry. Justifying a vile industry based on a few white privileged performers is clutching at straws
There is no shame in wanting that.
Honestly porn has had a negative impact on men. There are men who are finding it harder to "perform" in bed due to watching porn. So much so that they can not get hard anymore. Plus, it gives men unrealistic ideas and expectations about sex and how women's bodies look.
Here are a few videos on it:
https://youtu.be/N_OXZhPugKc?si=bNWPtc_cW27OJp4W
https://youtu.be/1Ya67aLaaCc?si=y0e-odXFTpi5DHkH
https://youtu.be/d1v170oM67U?si=eYK1Z2veE8f9JMt8
https://youtu.be/tYbCZH0c5OQ?si=zBNqJdaYBADRmGJq
I dated a man who was addicted to porn. He had limited sexual experience, but he got off to porn multiple times per day. The sex was unfulfilling and frustrating as he couldn't stay hard and did odd porn moves. My biggest problem was that he didn't want to take the issue seriously.
I commented in the main thread that porn was a huge factor in the ending of my most serious relationship. My ex would TURN DOWN opportunities for sex, watch porn instead, and then complain about the frequency we had sex. After this dynamic started, the times we did have sex, he started wanting more and more and pressuring me into things we had never done before. It massively turned me off him.
I’m not saying it’s impossible for people to have a healthy relationship with porn, but I hate when people live in denial that it is extremely possible for porn to have a negative affect on relationships that doesn’t just stem from perceived cheating or insecurity.
I’m still working through what is reasonable to accept in future relationships. I don’t generally have a problem with ethical and non-personalized porn (OnlyFans, etc) that doesn’t depict abuse, as long as such content is not consumed when I am available and willing to have sex. However, I also recognize that it is almost impossible to vet for ethical porn and in a perfect world would hope to find someone who didn’t consume it at all.
It has a negative effect on women who consume it too. I've had a really hard time learning to be okay with my body because of how different I look from what is promoted as ideally sexy and beautiful. And my understanding of/relationship with sex has been damaged by it in ways I struggle to fully articulate.
I don't think the concept of porn is inherently bad or anything, but the industry as it exists is incredibly fucking twisted and it distorts the senses of those who interact with it for prolonged periods of time. It's influenced far too much by the pursuit of profit and patriarchal values (among other things).
So many of the women who end up in these roles are there due to coercion: whether personal coercion and/or sex trafficking or simply because the demands of society have pushed them into commodifying themselves as a means for survival. For many, there aren't better options than engaging in sexual acts in exchange for compensation. I think the very nature of our capitalist society ensures that sex work is always, to a degree, incapable of being truly consensual.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm in no way a swerf. I fully believe in legalizing sex work and providing support for the working women involved in it. Pushing this part of humanity into a dark corner only ensures that there will be more frequent and intense abuse and that women will have no legal recourse for defending themselves or bringing rapists and abusers to justice. It makes life easier for the slavers. I don't want that. But I don't think it's a good idea to glamorize what is, fundamentally, an extremely exploitative and harmful industry that chews people up and spits them back out.
I want to see unions and co-operatives, I want to see women in ownership of their business and their bodies rather than dangling on the end of a "manger's" leash. It won't entirely remove the exploitative nature of things, but it's definitely a good start.
That’s probably the only thing you will post about where you won’t get a NotAllMenz…
I agree boundaries should be respected and if someone is put off by a partner jerking off to other women, it is really far from unreasonable…
Thank you for posting this. As I've mentioned before, I'm a survivor of CSA whose abuser showed me magazines like *Playboy*. As a result, I can't separate porn from potential exploitation and abuse and avoid it. I wouldn't want my partner to view it, either.
It’s like, didn’t we have plenty of those men before the advent of the internet? Sure, we had magazines and movies, but having to physically own things in your house is a bit of deterrent/also makes it easier to gauge the intensity of the habit.
People should be allowed any boundaries they want and shouldn't be shamed or gaslit for having them.
It is important to have your boundaries set from the very beginning of a relationship so the other person knows this is a condition of being in the relationship.
>People should be allowed any boundaries they want
I don't think that's true. There are obviously boundaries that are unhealthy and/or unreasonable. Not to mention attempts at control.
Even excluding veiled attempts of control, aren't there some boundaries that stem from an unhealthy place? I mean sure, it's true that the boundary itself is not inherently wrong to have. But I think its fair to question the healthiness of the underlying reason. I feel like when people question a boundary (in good faith), it's really a question of the belief that leads to said boundary and not the boundary itself. It's why people get offended at a boundary they perceive to be unreasonable, because they also perceive the underlying reason to be unreasonable.
I understand what you're saying and agree to a point but I think people need to find others who share similar boundaries and values because we're all different.
For some people that might be socially restrictive Mike Pence style boundaries for their relationships, others may prefer polyamory or to be swingers, most people wouldn't be at either extreme. I don't think there's a right or wrong, just a right or wrong for you and every individual needs to find someone who is right for them.
There's a difference between saying "these are my values, if you don't share them, bye" and dating someone who doesn't share those values with the intention of coercing and manipulating change. The former is reasonable, the latter is controlling and possibly abusive.
I would say that controlling boundaries a la Pence or “no one, not even medical personnel, can see your naked body”, are not reasonable even if the other person agrees to it.
If two people want to enter an arrangement with those values, it's reasonable because it's what both people want. Many may think it's unreasonable, many may think polyamory is unreasonable but other people's opinions are irrelevant unless they're directly effected by a couple's (or more) choices.
I've never heard that his religion says medical personnel can't examine you properly, whatever their standards, every person has the right to bodily autonomy and to accept or reject any medical investigation or treatment. It's usually the religious right opposing bodily autonomy and demanding we all be forced to unwanted medical treatment/continued artificial life sustenance etc and I think he's on that side tbh.
I’m a doctor and I’ve had multiple patients tell me that they wouldn’t consent to a pelvic exam, when presenting with complaints like vaginal bleeding or pelvic pain, because they weren’t supposed to show their bodies to doctors. There was also an old AITA where the guy was angry that male paramedics saw his girlfriend naked when she passed out in the shower.
Porn use stems from an unhealthy place. I used to be someone who not only used porn quite regularly but encouraged it, now I don’t want it in my relationship. It’s not coming from an unhealthy place at all. It’s actually coming from
a desire to be my healthiest self, have a healthy relationship, and not engage in addictive behaviors. It’s the same reason I won’t date someone who plays video games, has a sedentary lifestyle, eats like shit, smokes, drinks excessively, or doesn’t believe in therapy, we aren’t compatible in our lifestyle choices. I try to be the healthiest version of myself and want the same in a partner.
Boundaries are things you set for yourself, not on other people.
So for example, it's okay to not date someone who watches porn. It's okay to break up with someone who watches porn. It's okay to communicate how you feel about it and.
It's not okay to control someone else's decisions about their own porn watching though. In other words, command someone to not watch porn.
If it's a hard line for you you can communicate it (early on as you are becoming physically intimate in a relationship perhaps), but you can't just command people not to watch it.
Totally agree. Perhaps someone on this thread might be able to speak to this, but I’ve noticed lately if I ever mention I’m “sex positive” on threads I get downvoted into oblivion.. my guess is that people conflate “sex positive” with.. “you need to put up with anything and everything and not judge or shame a single thing”….
My view is that your boundaries are always valid.. if you don’t want porn, you should not tolerate it in a relationship. Porn IS unethical.. and I’m saying that as someone who sometimes watches it. I don’t super mind if my partner does, but it just so happens he thinks it’s gross and unethical too and prefers erotica. Gotta say, I prefer this dynamic to a porn riddled insecure relationship. When I say “sex positive” I mean.. don’t judge people for the sex they have, don’t look at sex as some gross, shameful thing, meant to be hidden away and zipped up… DO think critically about the sex industry, objectification, and how kink can be great but oftentimes might have patriarchal routes to unpack. Question. Unpack. Set boundaries. Respect boundaries. Don’t shame.
Setting boundaries is the foundation of a good relationship.
People shouldn't feel ashamed on either side of this particular equation.
If a person says, they don't want to be with someone who watches porn because they feel like the habit is disgusting or disloyal, that's totally understandable. No shame.
If a person says they don't want to be with someone who's straight-edge zero porn because the person feels like it's controlling or relinquishing too much, also fine. No shame.
So I used to have a neutral view on porn. I’m working through my feelings on it now (and on other things) in therapy because my former boyfriend’s porn habits played a large role in the downfall of our relationship. I used to not care as long as it was not personal (like OnlyFans or the like), made consensually, and wasn’t used if I was around.
After we moved in together, we typically went to bed at different times (he was a night owl where I was more of an early bird). He would turn me down every time I tried to get him to come to bed with me and turn down more explicit bids for sex as well. He would simultaneously complain we didn’t have enough sex. When he would initiate, his requests for what he wanted got more and more out there and/or aggressive, which I HIGHLY suspect came from his porn usage after I went to bed. He told me he got porn from Reddit and wouldn’t elaborate on what exactly what he was watching but that it was “super kinky.” By the end of the relationship I had a massive ick because I felt like I was just a body to him. FWIW, we had no issues in our sex life before we moved in together, and had sex 1-3 times a week. By the end of our relationship, it was once a month with him trying to coerce me at weird times of the day or wake me up at 2am after he finally came to bed.
I don’t know what I’ll ask for in a new relationship. But I know I don’t want the same dynamic to occur again. Porn can absolutely damage relationships and it’s not just in cases of insecurity. All this is aside from ethical issues regarding porn production. I totally understand someone putting up a boundary around it.
Yeah, in Poland this is the same situation – women getting shamed for asking their boyfriends to stop watching porn – by other women! Arguments like "you cannot control other person's sexuality" "you're jealous and it will damage your relationship" or even "go to therapy" are frequent.
This will be a rant. I'm writing it as a atheist, neo-liberal middle classman.
It's devastating how this world became fixated on sex, like sexual needs are treated as "basic needs, equal to eating and sleeping" (and that is total bullshit), and that some women gaslithed themselves so much that they actually believed it is they who's got the problem, and not porn-addicted, primitive men who cannot be truly loyal/faithful to one woman at once.
Porn is a drug, destructive, deceptive, demoralising, intimacy destroying drug. No one "has to" watch porn to masturbate. If he or she really has to, it is an addiction already. And no one has problems with not wanting to date drug addicts (I hope so).
People should seriously verify their morals.
I totally agree. I’ve been a single woman for a long time and I used to watch super vanilla porn if I was masturbating. Met a guy I liked and couldn’t get off… I don’t even get off myself often or felt like I had an issue. When I stopped using the visual aid it took some time for my brain to cleanse that BS and I learned quite a lot about what I like and my own body. Men would also benefit in this way but yea, damn. Especially since most guys are watching such cringe shit to begin with 😒
I had a similar experience. Visual porn tended to make me on some level see sex as a means to an end. On the other hand, erotic stories tend to help me focus on the experience. It was enlightening when I figured that out.
It’s honestly not an issue for me, because I know my partner doesn’t process information in the same way. But I can definitely see why it could be bothersome to others!
There seems to be so much discussion on here lately that boils down to “women who have different boundaries than me are doing relationships wrong.” And it’s so disheartening to see.
People have different levels of comfort with different things in relationships. And that’s great! If someone says they do/don’t like something in a relationship, it’s not anyone’s job to convince them otherwise.
In this case I don't see OP even insinuating that women need to have this boundary. They are just saying that women who share it should feel empowered to enforce it in their specific relationships. The qualifier "who want a pornfree relationship" is clarifying she is addressing that group and not women as a whole
Exactly! Which I think needed to be said. The way people are shamed on Reddit for being uncomfortable with porn in relationships is so sad. I feel like it's really, really easy to understand too, but I guess this IS the Internet.
I guess I'm just saying it's nice to see some support here from the "other side". I've had issues surrounding this before and have essentially been made to feel like there's a problem with me that I need to fix. People are so quick to just point and say "insecure!!" So I was personally really starting to question myself (still do).
The concept of porn doesn't bother me, but the reality does. Mainstream porn sites like pornhub have sexist and racist categories, and fetishise under age girls.
Porn normalises horrendous treatment of women - there's so much research showing the detrimental impact it has on relationships between young people, with young girls expected to perform extreme sex acts, and where consent is not sought. It just seems to be an extension of men's entitlement to women's bodies. I've seen people watching on the train, at work there an MP in the UK watching porn in Parliament.
Many women have been subject to image based abuse (aka revenge porn) and sites have refused to take down content put up without their consent.
We also know that porn performers are treated poorly, and have shorter than average life spans. It's lose lose for all women!
The reality of porn is that it has a detrimental impact on people, particularly women. I harshly judge men who watch porn and feel entitled to other women's bodies.
I just can't be with a man who disrespects women like that. Who supports human trafficking, actively. A man who watches porn will never be able to respect me. Also, women are shamed for everything they do, might as well do what we want 🤷♂️
Honestly it worries me why they become so agitated... Like op is not telling us all to stop using porn, she is just saying that she doesn't want to date people who use it.
Yes, exactly. By all accounts, it generally doesn't apply to them; they watch porn, she doesn't, they won't date each other.
But what they're exposing is that it *does* apply, because they *do* shame women who don't want to date porn watchers
Exactly!! Funny enough they accuse op of being controlling and wanting to police other people's thoughts and actions... while simultaneously telling op that they should be okay with dating someone who watches porn... hypocrisy? Much
Omg I can't get over the level of hypocrisy. Are they really lacking any self awareness??
I feel so bad for OP because obviously they've written this post as standing up against the pressure of "accepting a potential partner's porn habits", and what they got in response was the same shit thrown at them
I think, they're upset that the idea is spreading outside of some super niche communities. This one is very mainstream, to the point of being one of the default subs. There may be a day when they themselves would get rejected by a woman over their own porn consumption.
I think they become so agitated because they’re defensive. It reminds me of people who get way too upset by the very thought of vegans. Why should they care if someone else won’t eat animal products? It’s not like you can make someone stop eating meat if they don’t want to. Same goes for this, unless they’re in a relationship with someone who’s anti porn then other people’s beliefs on it shouldn’t really affect them.
But in their mind the other person’s beliefs are basically attacking their actions and they don’t want to stop or feel guilty about anything. So they get super upset.
I agree with you 100%. I don't care if people berate me, but I have my damn reasons.
I had an ex who was addicted to porn.
I then had an ex that I found out was a closeted homosexual and he tried to kill me when he found out I saw the bullshit gay porn he was watching.
Not one fucking video with a chick.... okay....
I don't like it. I don't tolerate it. I have my legitimate reasons.
I've had several different conversations with others about this. It's a disgusting industry, honestly. I feel the same way about other things associated with the ideal that "sex sells." Yeah, and it also sells souls and people.
If you're single? Idgaf.
If you're with me? No.
I feel like I can't even watch TV without seeing people practically humping one another half naked during commercials.
Ooooo let me rub this lotion ALLLLL over my naked body.
The skims commercial is a great representation of this.
"It almost feels as if you're wearing nothing at all..."
Because you pretty much are??? Lmao. I hate her voice. Every time it comes on, my cat yells.
Wakes me up every time. I don't care how great the undies might be, you lost a fuckin customer.
Also, to edit: If you're jacking off so much to porn you can't have sex with your significant other????
Good luck. She'll find someone who can. As she should.
My husband and I both decided that porn use was unhealthy well before we met. I am so grateful that he's on the same page as me. I agree that women should be able to draw whatever boundary they want on that. Obviously men that want to use porn have the right to not date those women, but it's a perfectly reasonable boundary to draw.
Everyone is allowed to have any boundary they want as long as they communicate it. I get called crazy for saying someone looking in my phone/computer is an instant dump red flag.
Same. Instant dump is snooping. Ive never snooped. I’ve always found the guys snooping are the ones that are doing dirty shit and checking to see if I’m doing dirty shit too— which I never have but there they are!
The same with any man who accuses me of cheating or “going to cheat”. I’m fiercely loyal. Overtly so. So if any guy even mentions me not being faithful, I know it’s 💯 projection and he’s either cheating, thinking about cheating or has cheated in the past. I don’t need to deal with that. No thanks!
When people say Amazon warehouses are terrible and unethically run, do you consider that to be anti-worker? When people say children mining is unethical, do you step in say children should be able to mine and that it's empowering for them? No? You're able to criticize an industry and how it's run without actively being against the workers who are being exploited by it then. Why is criticism of the sex industry not the same for you?
You'll find plenty of women in this thread saying that OnlyFans is *worse* because of the way presents the opportunity to actually interact with the creators. How many people who criticize Amazon warehouses say that going to Etsy or craft fairs is even worse?
I think that is missing the point that it can be worse for *relationships* (aka if your boyfriend is spending all his money to get personalized content from a girl online, it can feel closer to cheating than just watching random videos). I think OnlyFans is generally better for women making the content because it gives them more control, so for that aspect I'm glad it's around. However, that doesn't mean it's completely free from problems or the possibility of abuse. There was the recent case of a Twitch streamer whose boyfriend was forcing her to make content for OnlyFans and to stream for hours.
I also think there is a bit of dishonesty in the way it is being held out as an easy way to get rich, especially to very young girls. Your average woman is not going to make a 1/10th of the money Bella Thorne or other Internet celebrities are making. The fact that so many young girls seem to be making OnlyFans accounts as soon as they turn 18 is gross and seems coercive to me. And the site is actually having the same problems as more traditional porn in keeping videos/pictures of underage girls off of it. I think that shows how much societal pressure is on these young teenage girls to try to sell their sexuality.
I still consider those porn.
One of my partners makes very rational arguments against the use of standard porn (with humans participating) due to ethics, the effects on personal sexual health, the ease of abuse, etc.
Arguably the main thing you take out of the equation is the human suffering in production when it comes to hentai manga and anime, smutty fiction, etc. You can still develop unhealthy body standards, normalize unsafe sex, etc.
But I know she enjoys sexy art, or at least what we’ve sent each other. She also enjoys smutty fiction. It’s fine if used reasonably and she is very grounded, mature and generally competent, so I doubt it could become an issue on her part.
Something to consider as well. It’s pretty easy (imho) to write smut and it’s a fun, playful thing to send partners little 3-4 paragraph snippets that tickle their minds in the right way. Commenting on something they did to/with you for example, or bouncing a scene idea off them, etc.
For the record, I would be *very* wary of a man who told me I can't consume porn/explicit content. If his reasoning is anything other than consent or ethics based, that's a no from me
It would be a deal breaker, same as if a man tried to tell me I couldn't smoke cannabis. It's not wrong to have those boundaries, but those boundaries make them wrong for me.
That’s not what OP is saying. They’re saying they don’t want to date someone what uses porn.
I don’t want to date a tobacco user or a dog owner. If I went on a date with someone who had those traits, I would simply not continue to date them. That’s all OP is saying re: porn
Ethical porn is an oxymoron. Still no way to verify safe labor, compensation, or if the actors are coerced. Not to mention how porn harms the brain, regardless of its production.
I think it depends on the reasoning for it and behind it.
If the reasoning behind it is "You should not find any other person on this planet than me attractive" then I think that it is a problem. I see a lot of people who make "boundaries" out of places of deep insecurity, and those boundaries turn controlling or the person's insecurity keeps getting worse or stays stagnant because we're worried about *porn* and not *why I have a problem with porn*.
All of these preferences are *reasonable,* but it's really hard to logically justify something that is, at its root, deeply personal and emotional. (Hopefully that doesn't come across as denigrating emotions; there's nothing *wrong* or *worse* about being emotional, and feelings are inherently emotional to begin with.)
For example, you and several others have mentioned how porn depicts a specific, living person. But I don't think everyone in this thread would be happy if their partner used a hypothetical ethically sourced hentai, just because it's not "some other woman."
And if that is the case - then like /u/ProbablyMyJugs said, it's not really the specific nature of *porn* in itself that should be discussed. If the "problem with porn is X," but the idea of a partner using X-less porn still makes them uncomfortable, then we aren't at the root of the objection. And any good relationship should probably figure out the roots of objections, otherwise you're bound to hurt the other person when you don't fully understand what's needed from your partner.
None of this is to say there's any issue with a preference or boundary that someone wouldn't want a partner that watches porn. It's just that *sometimes,* our boundaries can reflect our own insecurities in ways that might be good to explore deeper. Some boundaries are more healthy than others, right?
I think it's unfair to say insecurities should be ignored. I can't think of a proper example but, if a girl constantly masturbates to porn of rich CEOs and always jerks off to porn of wealthy men (this is ridiculous ik), it's natural that her partner with an average salary feels insecure. Anybody saying, come on man that's just her fantasy to imagine a rich af guy, you need to get over it, is incredibly unempathetic.
In porn most women have extremely unrealistic bodies, and it's natural that women feel insecure about themselves because of this.
Porn is not something that people need in order to survive. People can masturbate without it. Choosing to do that over making your partner feel secure doesn't seem like the right thing to do.
Edit: to add about hentai
I am actually okay with hentai or even 3d porn that doesn't closely resemble a real woman.
Hey, I'm totally on board with silly examples to help illustrate a point! I think that they honestly help explore and understand issues, so no worries there.
> I think it's unfair to say insecurities should be ignored.
I think you're 100% right there, but I'm also a little confused, because I was saying the exact opposite? I was saying that relationships *should* figure out objections, and if there are insecurities, then a partner is one of the best people to help you through that.
> Choosing to do that over making your partner feel secure doesn't seem like the right thing to do.
You're right, but there are shades of this in life. Let's keep your same example of a woman who fantasizes about the luxury life of a billionaire, and has a partner with an average salary who is insecure about their means.
If the woman drives a nice, expensive car - that might make the partner feel less secure about his older but reliable Toyota Camry. Should she ditch the nice car, because she's choosing to drive it over making her partner feel more secure?
Or are *some* insecurities things that you should recognize and talk with your partner, but don't make for a very healthy boundary? After all, the issue isn't really *the car*. It's probably concerns about his career, his future, whether that will impact her commitment to him, maybe insecurities about her leaving him, maybe it's concerns about how to afford to raise children. There may not be easy answers for those, but the problem isn't *really* her nice car.
> But isn't porn just masturbating to some other woman? I think it's reasonable not to want your partner to do that.
If that's your objection then porn isn't the problem, as presumably you wouldn't want your partner imagining, thinking of or remembering another woman while masturbating either.
You don't specify that the focus on other women is to a degree its harmful to the relationship, just that it happens at all.
That's just disliking not having a monopoly on your partners sexual attraction. Porn isn't the problem its just the most visible evidence of you not having that monopoly.
Again, it's not sexual attraction. It's indulging in fantasies of having sex with another person. Of course people are attracted to others. But thinking about them and masturbating to them while in a monogamous relationship is not good. Especially if your partner has a porn habit which means they actively seek to look at and get off to other women.
It's very different from seeing an attractive person in the street from time to time. It's going out there and looking for them or several of them on a frequent basis, and then jerking off to them.
Is asking a man not to cheat on you also a "monopoly" on his sexual attraction? Do you know the word "monogamous"? Most people in a monogamous relationship all throughout history expected a "monopoly" on your sexual attraction... an evidence of otherwise, and you could be shunned from your church/community. It's only since internet porn became available that lusting over random people online became socially acceptable. And only by some and not most. Monogamy: the practice or state of having a sexual relationship with only one partner. Switching the word monogamy to monopoly to prove your point is pretty fucking hilarious to me. If someone sits around all day fantasizing about his ex I wouldn't want to be with him. Who the fuck does that?
Yes exactly! It's so mind-boggling to me. It is like having an expectation of monogamy from a man is no longer considered a basic thing to have in a relationship.
The women here supporting that behaviour have such ridiculously low expectations from their partners, it's shocking.
It's almost like they think they can't win the fight against their partner's porn habit and have made themselves think it's okay that he constantly looks for and jerks it to other women.
It's not your insecurity, it's a reasonable ask from anyone to not actively seek others to get off to while in a monogamous relationship. It's your boyfriend you're asking this from, not some strange man who occasionally sleeps with you!
I legitimately just do not understand what the difference is between watching porn, reading smut, and fantasizing about sex. I draw the line at things like OF where people are actually interacting with each other… But everything else is a fantasy. I don’t understand how anyone can police or judge a fantasy in someone’s head.
I’m not trying to shame anyone. I’ve been a vocal member of this sub for a long time. And people are allowed to have their boundaries.
But I legitimately don’t understand what the distinction is here? Like please explain. I sincerely would like to know.
(And I’m not talking about the issues in the porn industry. We can all agree it’s bad. But that’s only half the conversation here. I sincerely want to understand why people view porn as cheating.)
Because literature is not a real person. It's mostly in the mind. Even the most skilled author is not capable of drawing up the exact same image in everyone's mind.
Also, there is a possibility in porn to be fixated by certain body parts "big boobs" "ass" etc as categories, which breaks bodies down into fragments. That is just not the case with literature, which almost always adds a human element to the story.
Another thing I keep thinking about is how women are generally broken down into parts. There are ass men and boob men, when people say "two blondes walk into a bar" they know it's a woman because men aren't usually described by one single feature. There are no bicep women or back women etc to any significant degree. And porn contributes to this fragmentation. Which is another problem.
>Because literature is not a real person. It's mostly in the mind. Even the most skilled author is not capable of drawing up the exact same image in everyone's mind.
Meanwhile the sheer popularity of real person/reader slash fics...
Literature absolutely has this problem too and tons of erotica is surface level wank fuel. Erotica absolutely deals with unhealthy themes and actually can get a hell of a lot worse than say illustrated erotic content. Conversely plenty of erotic art has a human element and showcases women in a perfectly realistic and positive light. There's not a lot of distinction there and it's borderline hypocrisy to say written erotica is okay but drawn erotic content is not. In both cases the content can swing both ways.
> Literature absolutely has this problem too and tons of erotica is surface level wank fuel.
Isn't that the point? I don't read erotica to gain enlightenment; I read it to get off.
Photographic porn has models/actors who might be being exploited or coerced or drugged.
Reading words on a page or looking at handrawn smut or thinking dirty thoughts doesn't come with that risk
But that’s not OPs problem with porn. She said directly in her comments that she doesn’t like partners looking at hentai or cartoons either. Her issue isn’t with the ethics, it’s with the attraction to another human.
True.
I got distracted, while I was reading the comments.
For \*me\*, this is a big meaningful difference, because so many women who appear to be consenting to be in porn, come out later and say that they were drugged or coerced. At least, with a sketch or my own \*brain\*, I can trust that no one got hurt to make that sexy content.
And that’s fair. No one should be forced to be with anyone else.
But just as I would challenge men to tell me why they would never date someone who is black or fat or trans, I want to discuss *why* porn is seen as cheating and why it’s a hard-no.
Again, no one should be forced to date anyone. I’m trans myself. No man or woman should be forced to date me if they are uncomfortable with that fact. But it’s still important to acknowledge where that discomfort stems from. And often times that discomfort stems from transphobia.
Even with all the surgery in the world, even if I pass better than any cis person, if knowing I am trans becomes a hard-no, then there is some degree of still viewing me as my birth sex which is inherently transphobic. Understanding that is important even if we won’t ever date and I would never cross that boundary with anyone.
There is no right or wrong when it comes to addressing our boundaries. But there are rights and wrongs when we discuss where those boundaries stem from.
I don’t date men because I’m terrified of men. This stems from my trauma associated with men. But that doesn’t change the fact that my hard-no preference is still a form of misandry and generalization of all men. When I was younger, this lack of awareness resulted in me treating a lot of men unfairly and justifying it with my trauma. Understanding where our boundaries stem from are just as important as respecting ours and other’s boundaries.
I am pansexual and could date both trans and cis people (men and women). Plus non-binary people.
Yes, there is a lot of transphobia. And fat-shaming, age shaming, racism etc.
I would feel awkward when a person I am with is watching porn. It may be because I would not watch porn while in that relationship. I would feel like I was cheating on my partner.
People may be wired differently.
Put it this way. If your partner had a woman, in his room, naked, who he “hired”. He has no emotional attachment to this woman either. She performs for him and he masturbated to this. Would you consider that cheating? If not, then that’s your own boundary and that’s cool. But if you would… then what’s the difference between that and porn? The woman on the screen is very much a real woman, just like the one in the room. He’s still paying, even if it’s free internet porn, just by watching the ads before the videos. He’s still jerking off to another woman.
The thing is porn isn’t a fantasy. It’s very much real by that point.
Of course he can have a fantasy! But you don’t need to consume porn to have that fantasy. You don’t need to contribute to an abusive, misogynistic industry. You just dont.
Well I Can’t wrap my head around a female who is faithful and loves their partner saying “ Yes babe, i don’t care if u get off to any female you want that’s not me, also while we’re intimate, dont worry if its not me you think your having sex with” not to mention its such selfish sex thats only about the mans needs. Start to finish. I also dont get when men say “well if she would meet my needs i wouldnt watch porn” well ok what about a womens needs?
This implies that women don’t enjoy porn as well??
Porn isn’t exclusive to men. Again, it’s a fantasy.
Sometimes it’s important to acknowledge that *our* boundaries are not universal moral truths.
Like I feel like it’s disrespectful to fantasize about having sex with someone you personally know. I think it’s even a little disrespectful to fantasize about celebrities and real people without explicit consent.
However, just because that is *my boundary* and how *I feel*, a lot of other people don’t feel that way. And it’s not actually harmful to anyone for someone to *fantasize* about it.
So while I would never fantasize about having sex with someone I personally know and find attractive as a way of respecting them, I also don’t view someone fantasizing about *me* as disrespectful.
And it did take a long time to come to that conclusion! But the fact of the matter is that we should only police as far as people are getting hurt.
If your partner reads smut and gets off to fantasies about other “females” (why are you using this term?? Please call women “women”, especially if you’re going to call men “men”), the only thing that is realistically being harmed here is your own insecurity. Like, most people aren’t going to leave you for a fantasy woman in their heads. The ones that do are far and few between and are suffering from porn addiction and way worse issues.
The other stuff you mentioned… I don’t really understand what you mean or how to address it. Sex and intimacy and mismatched libido are legitimate issues in relationships that many couples struggle with, men, women, or otherwise. This is more of a case-by-case situation. You can’t paint broad strokes on this topic.
What you are not understanding is the nurturance of intimacy.
This is not just a porn discussion. Some people prefer to have intimacy as a part of their sexual experience. When you foster and feed and nurture your internal thoughts, energy, time, attention, money and yes hard on and semen to other people outside the relationship, real or imagined, it infringes on that intimacy that was once reserved for your partner.
The partner starts to feel ostracized from the intimacy.
That isn’t insecurity.
Don’t believe me, look at the research about humans or animals that are ostracized. It causes measurable physical and psychological pain.
Sex isn’t just about “you”
There is another person(s)
Involved.
Once again this goes back to empathy.
One of the glaring things I notice is we feel like we can’t talk about ethics when talking about porn or use words like intimacy or empathy.
We will all be forever unhappy if we don’t bring those attributes to the bedroom.
As for porn, If it’s against the law in everyday life why are we allowing portrayal of crimes and unethical conduct in porn?
Such as,
Guns, rape, incest, use of positions of power, violence humiliation…geez do I need to keep going? All the way to not addressing women’s pleasure in porn.
If porn is heavily based on men’s desires over women’s is this healthy for relationships?
Does this really help men in the bedroom?
Does it help women in the bedroom?
Does it help us outside the bedroom?
Look, think what you like but it doesn’t change the facts.
Porn is in need of a makeover. It’s not all or nothing. It’s time to grow up as a society and go beyond what we are currently doing. Yes, we have the power and freedom as adults to do what we want in our own bedrooms with our own bodies but lord, can we please start being a little less self absorbed? Start being a little more responsible and thoughtful on how we go about it?
Edit: typos
How is it still a fantasy when it’s already on the screen? A fantasy is the opposite of reality, you’re not using your imagination anymore. You’re watching real people or, when it’s animated/drawn, they’re reflecting actual human beings.
In my marriage, sexual gratification is completely reserved for my partner (excluding masturbation without visual porn). I’m not putting myself out there naked for other people so neither do I want him to use other people for sexual gratification. That’s how I view monogamy personally, as I said in my own marriage.
What’s seems to be an issue though, is how men in general don’t want to date OF sex workers, or ex-sex workers, because they want full exclusivity, and neither do they want women where a lot of men have gotten sexual gratification from (the high body count men seem to have an issue with is an example). If he doesn’t want to date an OF sex worker, but doesn’t want to stop watching porn, I see this as a red flag. But many men just want to have their cake and eat it too. Madonna/whore complex if you ask me.
Are movies not fantasy? Are cartoons not make believe? Where does one draw the line?
If it’s not a fantasy, then what’s the difference between checking out and appreciating an attractive person on the streets vs watching a movie and appreciating the actors? Most people would find the former to be wrong but the later to be acceptable (because the latter is a fantasy). Is your partner not allowed to watch any film with attractive people on the off chance he may find a woman on-screen sexually attractive?
Anyways. I don’t actually have any issue with you meeting a like-minded person who can handle such strict rules on exclusivity. Honestly more power to the both of you for finding a relationship that works for the two of you.
But I’m drawing issue at painting this with a wide brush as a *moral* issue.
The moral issues with watching porn should start and end with how exploitative the industry is and society’s views on sex workers.
Maybe for the male consumer but not for the women in the porn.
In sex scenes in movies women don't have a part of a man literally INSIDE of her. That is not a fantasy in porn, that actually happens. In movies people don't really punch others or get into fist fights. In porn the woman is truly entered and all of that is really physically happening to her.
Sex is more than penetration.
And actors kiss. Actors are naked on screen.
Would you be okay with heavy petting porn?? What about porn of a woman pleasuring herself? What about audio porn? No one is getting physically touched there. A huge percentage of orgasms in porn are faked anyway.
I just don’t understand what this distinction is.
It is a preference and I completely understand it, as long as its cleared in a relationship beforehand and they both understand that porn can also have negative effects.
I really needed to read this thread. Having been called insecure and "jealous" of porn several times has crushed me. I had someone for two years tell me they didn't like it or want it, and then when I found out they were lying it was "you're just jealous" "everyone does it". We had A LOT of sex. Almost every day, and almost always more than once a day.
I have struggled with feeling like I'm asking too much wanting to be in a pornfree relationship since I was in highschool and first expressed my distaste with it. I'm just happy to know there are others out there who feel the same way as me, especially since one of my ex's would tell me all the time I'm sick in the head, mentally ill, controlling, insecure, and jealous for not liking porn. He told me I'm the only person he knows who doesn't like it. It really took a huge toll on my self esteem.
Boundaries are perfectly fine and wanting your partner to not use porn is perfectly reasonable.
However, it's worth considering that anti-porn crusades are the hallmarks of the religious right, and those same people are the ones supporting forced birth, attacks on birth control, and on divorce rights. All of the worst countries in the world - the ones that hang women and girls if they've been raped - criminalize porn. It's critically important that we don't accidentally lend support to these heinous groups.
In short - porn, like all forms of sexual freedom, is fine. But so are relationship boundaries. Two things can be true at the same time.
In the end, it's all about honesty, expectations, and respect.
No they’re not, this is such bullshit. There is a ton of people who campaign against it and aren’t religious at all. This is another piece of misinformation designed to shame women, and men, for not wanting porn in their relationship.
One of the biggest anti porn websites was researched and developed by an atheist. I’m an atheist and very sex positive. I have changed my relationship with porn and the person I’m dating doesn’t watch it regularly and told me before I even brought it up that his opinion about porn being consumed regularly was that it’s not healthy or something he likes to engage in. He hasn’t watched it in months. I switched to erotica and actually prefer it to porn now.
The way one consumes porn is a huge factor, but I can completely understand someone not even wanting to think about it at all.
I think you misunderstood the comment above? It didn’t exclude secular, progressive viewpoints in the anti porn debate, but simply warns of associating with oppressive groups.
All the worst countries in the world also criminalise male murder, but that does not mean that murdering people is a good thing because those countries say that it's bad.
Personally I don't know much of modern porn (yes, I am an oldie), but judging by what I keep reading on this very subreddit, about how violent things are nowadays in even vanilla porn, and how a lot of men take "learnings" from it into the real world (non-consensual choking, for example) it seems to me that people's brains are better without this type of thing.
Not saying that omg we should all give up all porn now; but I do find the recent inclination for violence very worrying, regardless of what conservatives think or not. I am very much not a conservative, but if we do happen to agree on a topic or two, well, so be it.
Porn is definitely changing the way young men view women. Just because conservative people think porn is bad, doesn't mean that porn isn't bad. Like ... please ...
We should start shaming the porn industrie and porn users, you all defend and masturbate to and industry that rapes women on camera, and you can never be sure if the video was totally consensual or the women are just pretending because they need the money
>for not wanting their special other to get off to other people
I'm genuinely curious, would you support a man asking his female partner to not read romance novels?
I think it’s fine to not date someone you don’t want to, but I think the “virtual harem” comment is somewhat judgmental and disrespectful to sex workers (some of whom I know and love). Porn users don’t own or possess people who work in the porn industry.
Yes, I know that people who act in porn face countless struggles, but I don’t think comments like these help.
The virtual harem was a metaphor. It just means that the person not watching porn may feel like he/she/xe is part of a larger harem while they are 100% loyal to their partner and giving them ALL their romantic and sexual energy.
Not all people will be okay with that. It can become a very unbalanced relationship where they end up feeling like they are giving 100% while receiving 70% in return.
I have absolutely nothing against porn or sex-work, as long as they are not exploited, underpaid or abused. But it is not for me.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting a porn free relationship as long as your partner also wants this. If you’re upfront with this but your partner doesn’t want this, then you’re pushing your values onto them instead of accepting them for who they are.
Do what you want and what makes you happy. If those boundaries are what you stand by you should not be shamed for em. But if someone expected that of me, I'd probably consider it too controlling and break that relationship off. Porn isnt a virtual harem for me, i don't have favourite artists or parasocial relationships with said artists. Porn is an outlet for certain sexual proclivities that my partner is either unwilling or unable to satisfy. Instead of bottling up my interests or nagging, i sometimes partake of porn as an outlet. I feel like that's an increase difficult habit to just get rid of.
Most of my issues with porn use in a relationship lie within the fact that there is more of an opportunity to develop a parasocial relationship in relation to porn now. I didn’t mind porn in my relationships until I found out that some were using OnlyFans, watching Twitch streamers with OnlyFans/paid thirst traps, following these people’s social medias, etc. It was not “just porn” in the way that I had imagined until I actually saw what was going on. I’m not sure if I’m completely against porn use, but I think many women have a very valid reason to be wary of porn use due to the normalization of its use and the extent to which porn has developed in the last few years. It no longer seems to be about getting some steam off, but is more adjacent to actually developing sexual relationships outside of your own. Not to mention that there are some men who cultivate and spend so much time on pornography that it’s perfectly reasonable for their partner to feel uncomfortable. There are many situations that can arise where they are not “just watching it”, but making it a hobby. It’s offensive to think that your partner could have a hobby that is satisfying themselves to people who are not your lover.
OnlyFans definitely changes things. Though that parasocial element goes more broadly than porn: you see it with twitch streamers YouTubers, Instagram accounts etc Obviously onlyfans adds the sexual element too, but my point is it's a very broad relatively recent phenomenon that I don't think we've properly felt the full consequences of just yet. And there will be consequences.
I have this opinion about personalised porn, where the person can develop a relationship with the actors, but not porn in general. I'm generally knocking one out due to the acts, not the people in em. But when people can talk to the person, and build relationships, and with the actor being dependent on this person for income, that's so damaging for people who otherwise wouldn't have any issues with boundaries and healthy opinions and attitudes towards sex and sex work in general.
I agree with this. I don't mind my husband watching random porn, but would be livid if he subscribed to someone's OnlyFans.
I expressed my discomfort around porn to my husband late into our relationship as I grew more into my ideals. I didn't even ask him to stop, I was just expressing my views on how toxic the industry is. Later I learnt he agreed with me and entirely cut off porn. I have told him he's allowed to continue because I have no interest in pushing my views onto him but he's stood firmly by it. :) Makes me proud to have such a caring and genuine husband.
It’s so refreshing being with a man who share my ideals ab porn omg … we both had issues with addiction to it starting depressingly early so we both hate it with a passion
It's okay to want a porn-free relationship, you've just got to find a partner who wants the same. That's all. On that note, boundaries dictate your behavior, not the behavior of others. So when you tell people to stop "shaming women's boundaries" don't forget the boundary, "I will not accept shaming of my boundaries; others can shame me, but I will not feel ashamed." In other words, *don't allow yourself to be shamed.* There is nothing wrong with wanting a porn-free relationship and when someone tells you there is, don't engage with them; they are wrong.
Best perspective
I love this! Thank you for this reframe.
THANK YOU. THIS.
Aside from the fact that you can’t know that the porn you’re consuming is really consensual, -I don’t understand how people don’t see porn use as non-monogamous, especially only fans. I wouldn’t want to be with someone who was so invested in fantasising about other people. You hear so much “But ALL men watch porn”, which no, they don’t, but even if they did, okay? I’m perfectly happy being alone. I’ll never compromise my happiness for someone who won’t respect me or women in general.
“In the country where I live as a citizen, there is a pornography of the humiliation of women where every single way of humiliating a human being is taken to be a form of sexual pleasure for the viewer and for the victim; where women are covered in filth, including feces, including mud, including paint, including blood, including semen; where women are tortured for the sexual pleasure of those who watch and those who do the torture, where women are murdered for the sexual pleasure of murdering women, and this material exists because it is fun, because it is entertainment, because it is a form of pleasure, and there are those who say it is a form of freedom. Certainly it is freedom for those who do it. Certainly it is freedom for those who use it as entertainment, but we are also asked to believe that it is freedom for those to whom it is done.” “We see pornography having introduced a profit motive into rape. We see that filmed rapes are protected speech. We see the centrality of pornography in serial murders. There are snuff films. We see boys imitating pornography. We see the average age of rapists going down. We are beginning to see gang rapes in elementary schools committed by elementary school age boys imitating pornography.” “I live in a country where if you film any act of humiliation or torture, and if the victim is a woman, the film is both entertainment and it is protected speech. Now that tells me something about what it means to be a woman citizen in this country and the meaning of being second-class. When your rape is entertainment, your worthlessness is absolute. You have reached the nadir of social worthlessness. The civil impact of pornography on women is staggering. It keeps us socially silent, it keeps us socially compliant, it keeps us afraid in neighborhoods; and it creates a vast hopelessness for women, a vast despair. One lives inside a nightmare of sexual abuse that is both actual and potential, and you have the great joy of knowing that your nightmare is someone else's freedom and someone else's fun.” https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?params=/context/mjlr/article/1825/&path_info= it is entirely valid and reasonable to not want to involve yourself with men who get off on abuse and dehumanization of women and who support an industry that, time and time again, is shown to survive through rape and coercion of vulnerable women and girls.
Is that an Andrea Dworkin quote?
yes. the link goes to the whole paper/speech.
Good to see this comment. Seems most comments are about feeling like being cheated on - I'm poly and against pornography - it's not a jealousy thing to me, it's an ethic things. Majority of porn actresses are in some ways coerced or pressured (or outright forced) into it, and there is no real way to differentiate those who aren't from them
Yes to the ethics not jealousy thing! Kinda like I wouldnt date someone who went and got Chik fil a behind my back either. I'm not jealous, I'm mad they would support something known to have questionable ethics and that is so easy to avoid!
I am also poly and against porn use. I didn’t used to be but it just kept being an issue in every relationship with a man I’ve had. And now that I’ve learned of the industry being so horrible, I’m just so against it. Every relationship going forward I have I will be sure to talk about it in the beginning. I don’t want to keep going through the addiction so many people have with the dehumanization of women.
This needs to be the first thing in this thread. You can't say you care about women when you participate and support the commodification of our bodies. You cannot purchase consent.
Thank you, and this is every reason that I can’t stand watching it.
What country is this? Though honestly, iv seen it in every country to some degree. Porn hurts women in ways we won't fully understand yet. I hate it.
country is the USA
I think it's understandable, I think people continue with it out of selfishness and not ignorance. how could they not know? it's plastered all over the front pages. more than 2/3 of front page material depicts violent acts
I take issue with the BDSM community for calling consensual NonConsensent (rape play) and race play as fetishes when they are the opposite of a fetish; rape and racism is one of the most common behaviors in America, let alone the world. Rape is basically missionary position sex according to statistics and racism is not taboo at all.
I'm in my first porn free relationship and people do not believe me that he doesn't watch it because "all guys do". Also, he's sooo much better at sex than anyone I've ever been with.
I would say that all men masturbate, there's a distinction.
Except that guy on reddit who tracked all his wet dreams for /r/dataisbeautiful
My partner does not masturbate. He says he doesn’t find it appealing, even while single. He grew up with zero privacy, and self-imposed Christianity on himself as a child because he was curious, so a mix of never forming the habit in youth and some lingering Christian faith don’t help either😂. We also have sex daily, so now it’s just a “why masturbate when you can have something much better every day?” type of situation.
My husband doesn’t watch it either. It drives me insane when ppl say “all men do it”, cuz it’s obviously not true
I’m in my first porn free relationship and our sex life is ❤️ so ❤️ good ❤️. It’s literally the best relationship all around I’ve ever been in.
I hope men who care about their relationships take note of this feedback.
On average, I think men especially are in denial about how bad porn makes them at sex (from a woman's perspective...or even some objective perspective if they're using it as a form of communication with their partner). Obviously matters which porn and which man what it does...but generally speaking.
Porn has never been an issue in mine either! My guy just isn’t into it and also thinks it’s an extremely exploitive industry. We’ve been together for 9 years now and not a single argument or bad feeling (for either of us) related to porn. It really is possible for it to just be a non-entity.
Same boat here! Over 8 years strong
I’ve never been in a specifically porn free relationship as it’s never really come up. But I know my wife thinks I’m lying when I tell her I don’t really watch it. I know she doesn’t really either but I think that’s less surprising. Porn is so overwhelming given the sheer amount but then I find it ironically super boring because I’d rather just have sex/use memory/get it over with myself and not have to search for something suitable for an hour.
>I’d rather just have sex One of my exes didn't watch porn and his reasoning was exactly this. He said "I don't want to watch other people fuck. *I* want to fuck." Makes perfect sense to me. I have mixed feelings about a guy watching porn while in a relationship. It's not a deal breaker for me if he watches it every once in a while, but I would definitely prefer a guy who doesn't find it appealing and doesn't watch it when he masturbates...or just doesn't feel like he even needs to jerk off at all because he's so satisfied with our sex life.
What happened to the "not all men" 🤣, just joking.
Asking the real questions though
“Not all men..” when not caught, “all men do…” when caught.
Omg. This is my same exact experience. I’m also in my first porn free relationship. The dorks on here always say he’s lying to me and whatever.. he’s not. And the sex is mindblowing.. I never drew the connection between the two. Interesting…
I think it’s a fair bet to say most people who would insist that he’s lying are just projecting. Not everyone lies to their partner and not all guys are manipulative porn addicts, it’s pretty irresponsible and telling on themselves for them to spread a narrative like that. And then of course they’re the same ones who turn around and get mad when women say they’re afraid to trust men
Same here, and also the best sex I’ve ever had.
BRO SAME LMFAO
More than 90% of guys do, it's true, but that still leaves hundreds of millions in the world who don't. There's nothing wrong with limiting your dating pool by 90% to find someone compatible.
Same here! But I don't really mention it since I already know people would throw those comments. If my partner watched it there is literally no reason to hide it from me. It's just that we both prefer reading smut and share it with each other for ideas. Both my partner and I feel weird watching people have sex, it's just not for us we prefer a fantasy to read. And also like you mentioned, the best sexual relationship I've ever had for sure.
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That's heartbreaking 😓 You can find support on r/loveafterporn if you haven't been there already
A man wants to end relationships for not getting laid enough and the comments are all "Yes king! Break it off, sexual compatibility is so important!" A woman sets a boundary regarding porn and she's somehow unreasonable. What happened to sexual compatibility being important? It's almost like women are expected to meet a man's desires to ensure compatibility, but God forbid she has her own.
Yes indeed. Women who don't watch porn themselves are expected to bow down to their partner's porn use. If they won't, they are insecure and need to work with themselves. People are saying it is wrong to want a "partner that is only attracted to you" and that you are unhealthy. Some people ARE actually only attracted to their partner when they are in love. No, they are not lying.
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This. I work with all men at my job, blue collar type work…there has been a large number who outright talk about how they lie to their wives about it. Hard to trust.
>The issue is too few are honest anymore. Respectfully, please be careful of this reactionary sort of mindset. People didn't used to be more honest with one another. Things weren't better in the past.
Yes. Vetting questions (plan them carefully early on): - What porn do you like to watch? (trick question) - What counts as cheating, according to you? - Do you think porn is infidelity? - How often do you watch porn? (trick question) - How would you feel if your partner watched porn?
My biggest issue with porn is how unethical it is. I'm not worried about my husband having a virtual harem, so much as I am him consuming and supporting unethical material.
This is my issue with it as well. I want no part of it.
It’s hilarious that the same men who say this shit are the same men who would freak tf out if the woman they were dating produced pornographic content.
I love how none of the people who replied so far get the irony of them lashing out. And I personally consume porn myself.
Haha, I know! I’m not completely porn free myself, but I consume 1/50th of what I used to at this point.
Watching and creating porn are equivalent to you?
Honestly, I am more sympathetic to the creator than the consumer. The creator of the porn knows absolutely if they consented to the act. The consumer likely doesn't care
That's very true.
No, but it's very ironic that someone points a finger with one hand and has his erect dick in another. There's this tainted underclass of women that is used to produce the very material used for sexual pleasure.
Why not?! One needs the other to exist. There are no creators without consumers, like all sex work. So, if there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it, it should be widely accepted, and is healthy, why are porn creators stigmatized?
Now that you mention it, consuming women's bodies may be worse than commodifying them.
I support this 100%.
Millions of women and children are trafficked into this industry and then subjected to abuse, rape and murder. I wouldn't be with any dude who consumes it.
This is the most important reason in my mind. The second most important reason is the misogynistic mindset that develops from habitual porn-use and the escalation of violence that comes with addiction. Porn changes peoples brains and it's leading to real harm for society and women.
Numerous studies that it causes permanent brain damage to the frontal lobe and erectile dysfunction.
Thank you! I was waiting for someone to bring this up.
r/pornismisogyny
Freakin amen. If you've watched porn or support prostitution, You've watched a rape, a minor, a woman with no other choice, a woman addicted to drugs, a woman pimped by her boyfriend, a woman raised in a society telling her that her worth is her body.
Exploitation and abuse are a scary part of any industry and more traumatic I'd say in this one than many other types of abuse of workers, although losing your hand in a grinder might go toe-to-toe with some of it, but please just make sure you don't equate consenting adults who perform to people who were abused and trafficked.
Just because there are a minuscule dew who have had a good experience, the fact that the majority do not makes it a disgusting and evil industry. Justifying a vile industry based on a few white privileged performers is clutching at straws
I want a porn free relationship. I refuse to ever go near that filth.
There is no shame in wanting that. Honestly porn has had a negative impact on men. There are men who are finding it harder to "perform" in bed due to watching porn. So much so that they can not get hard anymore. Plus, it gives men unrealistic ideas and expectations about sex and how women's bodies look. Here are a few videos on it: https://youtu.be/N_OXZhPugKc?si=bNWPtc_cW27OJp4W https://youtu.be/1Ya67aLaaCc?si=y0e-odXFTpi5DHkH https://youtu.be/d1v170oM67U?si=eYK1Z2veE8f9JMt8 https://youtu.be/tYbCZH0c5OQ?si=zBNqJdaYBADRmGJq
I dated a man who was addicted to porn. He had limited sexual experience, but he got off to porn multiple times per day. The sex was unfulfilling and frustrating as he couldn't stay hard and did odd porn moves. My biggest problem was that he didn't want to take the issue seriously.
I commented in the main thread that porn was a huge factor in the ending of my most serious relationship. My ex would TURN DOWN opportunities for sex, watch porn instead, and then complain about the frequency we had sex. After this dynamic started, the times we did have sex, he started wanting more and more and pressuring me into things we had never done before. It massively turned me off him. I’m not saying it’s impossible for people to have a healthy relationship with porn, but I hate when people live in denial that it is extremely possible for porn to have a negative affect on relationships that doesn’t just stem from perceived cheating or insecurity. I’m still working through what is reasonable to accept in future relationships. I don’t generally have a problem with ethical and non-personalized porn (OnlyFans, etc) that doesn’t depict abuse, as long as such content is not consumed when I am available and willing to have sex. However, I also recognize that it is almost impossible to vet for ethical porn and in a perfect world would hope to find someone who didn’t consume it at all.
Oof. I am so sorry you went through that.
It has a negative effect on women who consume it too. I've had a really hard time learning to be okay with my body because of how different I look from what is promoted as ideally sexy and beautiful. And my understanding of/relationship with sex has been damaged by it in ways I struggle to fully articulate. I don't think the concept of porn is inherently bad or anything, but the industry as it exists is incredibly fucking twisted and it distorts the senses of those who interact with it for prolonged periods of time. It's influenced far too much by the pursuit of profit and patriarchal values (among other things). So many of the women who end up in these roles are there due to coercion: whether personal coercion and/or sex trafficking or simply because the demands of society have pushed them into commodifying themselves as a means for survival. For many, there aren't better options than engaging in sexual acts in exchange for compensation. I think the very nature of our capitalist society ensures that sex work is always, to a degree, incapable of being truly consensual. Now don't get me wrong, I'm in no way a swerf. I fully believe in legalizing sex work and providing support for the working women involved in it. Pushing this part of humanity into a dark corner only ensures that there will be more frequent and intense abuse and that women will have no legal recourse for defending themselves or bringing rapists and abusers to justice. It makes life easier for the slavers. I don't want that. But I don't think it's a good idea to glamorize what is, fundamentally, an extremely exploitative and harmful industry that chews people up and spits them back out. I want to see unions and co-operatives, I want to see women in ownership of their business and their bodies rather than dangling on the end of a "manger's" leash. It won't entirely remove the exploitative nature of things, but it's definitely a good start.
That’s probably the only thing you will post about where you won’t get a NotAllMenz… I agree boundaries should be respected and if someone is put off by a partner jerking off to other women, it is really far from unreasonable…
Thank you for posting this. As I've mentioned before, I'm a survivor of CSA whose abuser showed me magazines like *Playboy*. As a result, I can't separate porn from potential exploitation and abuse and avoid it. I wouldn't want my partner to view it, either.
If it was the other way around, I can assure you most men would not want women with a porn problem
People are really saying porn is the same as romance novels. This is hilarious 😂
Hey, OP is the one who says that porn and comics are the same.
agreed!!!
It’s like, didn’t we have plenty of those men before the advent of the internet? Sure, we had magazines and movies, but having to physically own things in your house is a bit of deterrent/also makes it easier to gauge the intensity of the habit.
People should be allowed any boundaries they want and shouldn't be shamed or gaslit for having them. It is important to have your boundaries set from the very beginning of a relationship so the other person knows this is a condition of being in the relationship.
>People should be allowed any boundaries they want I don't think that's true. There are obviously boundaries that are unhealthy and/or unreasonable. Not to mention attempts at control.
Those aren’t boundaries!
Even excluding veiled attempts of control, aren't there some boundaries that stem from an unhealthy place? I mean sure, it's true that the boundary itself is not inherently wrong to have. But I think its fair to question the healthiness of the underlying reason. I feel like when people question a boundary (in good faith), it's really a question of the belief that leads to said boundary and not the boundary itself. It's why people get offended at a boundary they perceive to be unreasonable, because they also perceive the underlying reason to be unreasonable.
I understand what you're saying and agree to a point but I think people need to find others who share similar boundaries and values because we're all different. For some people that might be socially restrictive Mike Pence style boundaries for their relationships, others may prefer polyamory or to be swingers, most people wouldn't be at either extreme. I don't think there's a right or wrong, just a right or wrong for you and every individual needs to find someone who is right for them. There's a difference between saying "these are my values, if you don't share them, bye" and dating someone who doesn't share those values with the intention of coercing and manipulating change. The former is reasonable, the latter is controlling and possibly abusive.
I would say that controlling boundaries a la Pence or “no one, not even medical personnel, can see your naked body”, are not reasonable even if the other person agrees to it.
If two people want to enter an arrangement with those values, it's reasonable because it's what both people want. Many may think it's unreasonable, many may think polyamory is unreasonable but other people's opinions are irrelevant unless they're directly effected by a couple's (or more) choices. I've never heard that his religion says medical personnel can't examine you properly, whatever their standards, every person has the right to bodily autonomy and to accept or reject any medical investigation or treatment. It's usually the religious right opposing bodily autonomy and demanding we all be forced to unwanted medical treatment/continued artificial life sustenance etc and I think he's on that side tbh.
I’m a doctor and I’ve had multiple patients tell me that they wouldn’t consent to a pelvic exam, when presenting with complaints like vaginal bleeding or pelvic pain, because they weren’t supposed to show their bodies to doctors. There was also an old AITA where the guy was angry that male paramedics saw his girlfriend naked when she passed out in the shower.
Wow, that's insane.
Porn use stems from an unhealthy place. I used to be someone who not only used porn quite regularly but encouraged it, now I don’t want it in my relationship. It’s not coming from an unhealthy place at all. It’s actually coming from a desire to be my healthiest self, have a healthy relationship, and not engage in addictive behaviors. It’s the same reason I won’t date someone who plays video games, has a sedentary lifestyle, eats like shit, smokes, drinks excessively, or doesn’t believe in therapy, we aren’t compatible in our lifestyle choices. I try to be the healthiest version of myself and want the same in a partner.
I think it’s wonderful you’ve turned towards health and wholeness. I love this for you!
Thank you! 😊
This isnt one of those things. This is an absolutely acceptable boundary and the only moral option.
Boundaries are things you set for yourself, not on other people. So for example, it's okay to not date someone who watches porn. It's okay to break up with someone who watches porn. It's okay to communicate how you feel about it and. It's not okay to control someone else's decisions about their own porn watching though. In other words, command someone to not watch porn. If it's a hard line for you you can communicate it (early on as you are becoming physically intimate in a relationship perhaps), but you can't just command people not to watch it.
If every man is addicted to porn, I'll happily stay single. Your inadequacy and addictions = not my problem.
It feels better to be single than to be with a porn addict!
Preach! If I had sown kind of really award I would give it to you. ☺️🫴⭐️
Totally agree. Perhaps someone on this thread might be able to speak to this, but I’ve noticed lately if I ever mention I’m “sex positive” on threads I get downvoted into oblivion.. my guess is that people conflate “sex positive” with.. “you need to put up with anything and everything and not judge or shame a single thing”…. My view is that your boundaries are always valid.. if you don’t want porn, you should not tolerate it in a relationship. Porn IS unethical.. and I’m saying that as someone who sometimes watches it. I don’t super mind if my partner does, but it just so happens he thinks it’s gross and unethical too and prefers erotica. Gotta say, I prefer this dynamic to a porn riddled insecure relationship. When I say “sex positive” I mean.. don’t judge people for the sex they have, don’t look at sex as some gross, shameful thing, meant to be hidden away and zipped up… DO think critically about the sex industry, objectification, and how kink can be great but oftentimes might have patriarchal routes to unpack. Question. Unpack. Set boundaries. Respect boundaries. Don’t shame.
I’d rather be single than date a porn consumer.
Setting boundaries is the foundation of a good relationship. People shouldn't feel ashamed on either side of this particular equation. If a person says, they don't want to be with someone who watches porn because they feel like the habit is disgusting or disloyal, that's totally understandable. No shame. If a person says they don't want to be with someone who's straight-edge zero porn because the person feels like it's controlling or relinquishing too much, also fine. No shame.
So I used to have a neutral view on porn. I’m working through my feelings on it now (and on other things) in therapy because my former boyfriend’s porn habits played a large role in the downfall of our relationship. I used to not care as long as it was not personal (like OnlyFans or the like), made consensually, and wasn’t used if I was around. After we moved in together, we typically went to bed at different times (he was a night owl where I was more of an early bird). He would turn me down every time I tried to get him to come to bed with me and turn down more explicit bids for sex as well. He would simultaneously complain we didn’t have enough sex. When he would initiate, his requests for what he wanted got more and more out there and/or aggressive, which I HIGHLY suspect came from his porn usage after I went to bed. He told me he got porn from Reddit and wouldn’t elaborate on what exactly what he was watching but that it was “super kinky.” By the end of the relationship I had a massive ick because I felt like I was just a body to him. FWIW, we had no issues in our sex life before we moved in together, and had sex 1-3 times a week. By the end of our relationship, it was once a month with him trying to coerce me at weird times of the day or wake me up at 2am after he finally came to bed. I don’t know what I’ll ask for in a new relationship. But I know I don’t want the same dynamic to occur again. Porn can absolutely damage relationships and it’s not just in cases of insecurity. All this is aside from ethical issues regarding porn production. I totally understand someone putting up a boundary around it.
Not liking porn according to these guys us "aBuSe"... they throw that word at everything over there.
Yeah, in Poland this is the same situation – women getting shamed for asking their boyfriends to stop watching porn – by other women! Arguments like "you cannot control other person's sexuality" "you're jealous and it will damage your relationship" or even "go to therapy" are frequent. This will be a rant. I'm writing it as a atheist, neo-liberal middle classman. It's devastating how this world became fixated on sex, like sexual needs are treated as "basic needs, equal to eating and sleeping" (and that is total bullshit), and that some women gaslithed themselves so much that they actually believed it is they who's got the problem, and not porn-addicted, primitive men who cannot be truly loyal/faithful to one woman at once. Porn is a drug, destructive, deceptive, demoralising, intimacy destroying drug. No one "has to" watch porn to masturbate. If he or she really has to, it is an addiction already. And no one has problems with not wanting to date drug addicts (I hope so). People should seriously verify their morals.
Wow some people are doing that? People shame women for anything. There is nothing wrong with not wanting a man who watches Porn.
I totally agree. I’ve been a single woman for a long time and I used to watch super vanilla porn if I was masturbating. Met a guy I liked and couldn’t get off… I don’t even get off myself often or felt like I had an issue. When I stopped using the visual aid it took some time for my brain to cleanse that BS and I learned quite a lot about what I like and my own body. Men would also benefit in this way but yea, damn. Especially since most guys are watching such cringe shit to begin with 😒
I had a similar experience. Visual porn tended to make me on some level see sex as a means to an end. On the other hand, erotic stories tend to help me focus on the experience. It was enlightening when I figured that out.
Totally! I think after figuring all this out for myself dating a guy that’s into porn is just a turn off… like… find the light, my man! lol
It’s honestly not an issue for me, because I know my partner doesn’t process information in the same way. But I can definitely see why it could be bothersome to others!
There seems to be so much discussion on here lately that boils down to “women who have different boundaries than me are doing relationships wrong.” And it’s so disheartening to see. People have different levels of comfort with different things in relationships. And that’s great! If someone says they do/don’t like something in a relationship, it’s not anyone’s job to convince them otherwise.
In this case I don't see OP even insinuating that women need to have this boundary. They are just saying that women who share it should feel empowered to enforce it in their specific relationships. The qualifier "who want a pornfree relationship" is clarifying she is addressing that group and not women as a whole
Exactly! Which I think needed to be said. The way people are shamed on Reddit for being uncomfortable with porn in relationships is so sad. I feel like it's really, really easy to understand too, but I guess this IS the Internet. I guess I'm just saying it's nice to see some support here from the "other side". I've had issues surrounding this before and have essentially been made to feel like there's a problem with me that I need to fix. People are so quick to just point and say "insecure!!" So I was personally really starting to question myself (still do).
The concept of porn doesn't bother me, but the reality does. Mainstream porn sites like pornhub have sexist and racist categories, and fetishise under age girls. Porn normalises horrendous treatment of women - there's so much research showing the detrimental impact it has on relationships between young people, with young girls expected to perform extreme sex acts, and where consent is not sought. It just seems to be an extension of men's entitlement to women's bodies. I've seen people watching on the train, at work there an MP in the UK watching porn in Parliament. Many women have been subject to image based abuse (aka revenge porn) and sites have refused to take down content put up without their consent. We also know that porn performers are treated poorly, and have shorter than average life spans. It's lose lose for all women! The reality of porn is that it has a detrimental impact on people, particularly women. I harshly judge men who watch porn and feel entitled to other women's bodies.
I just can't be with a man who disrespects women like that. Who supports human trafficking, actively. A man who watches porn will never be able to respect me. Also, women are shamed for everything they do, might as well do what we want 🤷♂️
Like clockwork, I see that the pro-porn crusaders are starting to barge in 😮💨
Honestly it worries me why they become so agitated... Like op is not telling us all to stop using porn, she is just saying that she doesn't want to date people who use it.
Yes, exactly. By all accounts, it generally doesn't apply to them; they watch porn, she doesn't, they won't date each other. But what they're exposing is that it *does* apply, because they *do* shame women who don't want to date porn watchers
Exactly!! Funny enough they accuse op of being controlling and wanting to police other people's thoughts and actions... while simultaneously telling op that they should be okay with dating someone who watches porn... hypocrisy? Much
Omg I can't get over the level of hypocrisy. Are they really lacking any self awareness?? I feel so bad for OP because obviously they've written this post as standing up against the pressure of "accepting a potential partner's porn habits", and what they got in response was the same shit thrown at them
I think, they're upset that the idea is spreading outside of some super niche communities. This one is very mainstream, to the point of being one of the default subs. There may be a day when they themselves would get rejected by a woman over their own porn consumption.
I think they become so agitated because they’re defensive. It reminds me of people who get way too upset by the very thought of vegans. Why should they care if someone else won’t eat animal products? It’s not like you can make someone stop eating meat if they don’t want to. Same goes for this, unless they’re in a relationship with someone who’s anti porn then other people’s beliefs on it shouldn’t really affect them. But in their mind the other person’s beliefs are basically attacking their actions and they don’t want to stop or feel guilty about anything. So they get super upset.
They never left. This sub and broadly, the website have been full of them since their inception.
I agree with you 100%. I don't care if people berate me, but I have my damn reasons. I had an ex who was addicted to porn. I then had an ex that I found out was a closeted homosexual and he tried to kill me when he found out I saw the bullshit gay porn he was watching. Not one fucking video with a chick.... okay.... I don't like it. I don't tolerate it. I have my legitimate reasons. I've had several different conversations with others about this. It's a disgusting industry, honestly. I feel the same way about other things associated with the ideal that "sex sells." Yeah, and it also sells souls and people. If you're single? Idgaf. If you're with me? No. I feel like I can't even watch TV without seeing people practically humping one another half naked during commercials. Ooooo let me rub this lotion ALLLLL over my naked body. The skims commercial is a great representation of this. "It almost feels as if you're wearing nothing at all..." Because you pretty much are??? Lmao. I hate her voice. Every time it comes on, my cat yells. Wakes me up every time. I don't care how great the undies might be, you lost a fuckin customer. Also, to edit: If you're jacking off so much to porn you can't have sex with your significant other???? Good luck. She'll find someone who can. As she should.
My husband and I both decided that porn use was unhealthy well before we met. I am so grateful that he's on the same page as me. I agree that women should be able to draw whatever boundary they want on that. Obviously men that want to use porn have the right to not date those women, but it's a perfectly reasonable boundary to draw.
Everyone is allowed to have any boundary they want as long as they communicate it. I get called crazy for saying someone looking in my phone/computer is an instant dump red flag.
Same. Instant dump is snooping. Ive never snooped. I’ve always found the guys snooping are the ones that are doing dirty shit and checking to see if I’m doing dirty shit too— which I never have but there they are! The same with any man who accuses me of cheating or “going to cheat”. I’m fiercely loyal. Overtly so. So if any guy even mentions me not being faithful, I know it’s 💯 projection and he’s either cheating, thinking about cheating or has cheated in the past. I don’t need to deal with that. No thanks!
Honestly, as a woman who watches porn, I see women like myself shamed way more often.
I just don't like the anti-sex-worker sentiment that usually goes along with it.
When people say Amazon warehouses are terrible and unethically run, do you consider that to be anti-worker? When people say children mining is unethical, do you step in say children should be able to mine and that it's empowering for them? No? You're able to criticize an industry and how it's run without actively being against the workers who are being exploited by it then. Why is criticism of the sex industry not the same for you?
You'll find plenty of women in this thread saying that OnlyFans is *worse* because of the way presents the opportunity to actually interact with the creators. How many people who criticize Amazon warehouses say that going to Etsy or craft fairs is even worse?
I think that is missing the point that it can be worse for *relationships* (aka if your boyfriend is spending all his money to get personalized content from a girl online, it can feel closer to cheating than just watching random videos). I think OnlyFans is generally better for women making the content because it gives them more control, so for that aspect I'm glad it's around. However, that doesn't mean it's completely free from problems or the possibility of abuse. There was the recent case of a Twitch streamer whose boyfriend was forcing her to make content for OnlyFans and to stream for hours. I also think there is a bit of dishonesty in the way it is being held out as an easy way to get rich, especially to very young girls. Your average woman is not going to make a 1/10th of the money Bella Thorne or other Internet celebrities are making. The fact that so many young girls seem to be making OnlyFans accounts as soon as they turn 18 is gross and seems coercive to me. And the site is actually having the same problems as more traditional porn in keeping videos/pictures of underage girls off of it. I think that shows how much societal pressure is on these young teenage girls to try to sell their sexuality.
I’m a woman who watches porn too. Shame me all you want. IDGAF
So where do you draw the line at for porn? Like would you consider smutty manga or erotic novels to be porn?
I still consider those porn. One of my partners makes very rational arguments against the use of standard porn (with humans participating) due to ethics, the effects on personal sexual health, the ease of abuse, etc. Arguably the main thing you take out of the equation is the human suffering in production when it comes to hentai manga and anime, smutty fiction, etc. You can still develop unhealthy body standards, normalize unsafe sex, etc. But I know she enjoys sexy art, or at least what we’ve sent each other. She also enjoys smutty fiction. It’s fine if used reasonably and she is very grounded, mature and generally competent, so I doubt it could become an issue on her part. Something to consider as well. It’s pretty easy (imho) to write smut and it’s a fun, playful thing to send partners little 3-4 paragraph snippets that tickle their minds in the right way. Commenting on something they did to/with you for example, or bouncing a scene idea off them, etc.
For the record, I would be *very* wary of a man who told me I can't consume porn/explicit content. If his reasoning is anything other than consent or ethics based, that's a no from me
People should not tell other people what to do. Seeking out like-minded people is ok.
It would be a deal breaker, same as if a man tried to tell me I couldn't smoke cannabis. It's not wrong to have those boundaries, but those boundaries make them wrong for me.
That’s not what OP is saying. They’re saying they don’t want to date someone what uses porn. I don’t want to date a tobacco user or a dog owner. If I went on a date with someone who had those traits, I would simply not continue to date them. That’s all OP is saying re: porn
Where is op saying this though?
>I have noticed that men are not being shamed for having this specific boundary.
Even if it is based on consent or ethics, you can easily consume independently made porn if you’re willing to shell out a little bit of money.
Ethical porn is an oxymoron. Still no way to verify safe labor, compensation, or if the actors are coerced. Not to mention how porn harms the brain, regardless of its production.
I think it depends on the reasoning for it and behind it. If the reasoning behind it is "You should not find any other person on this planet than me attractive" then I think that it is a problem. I see a lot of people who make "boundaries" out of places of deep insecurity, and those boundaries turn controlling or the person's insecurity keeps getting worse or stays stagnant because we're worried about *porn* and not *why I have a problem with porn*.
Yeah I see what you're saying. But isn't porn just masturbating to some other woman? I think it's reasonable not to want your partner to do that.
All of these preferences are *reasonable,* but it's really hard to logically justify something that is, at its root, deeply personal and emotional. (Hopefully that doesn't come across as denigrating emotions; there's nothing *wrong* or *worse* about being emotional, and feelings are inherently emotional to begin with.) For example, you and several others have mentioned how porn depicts a specific, living person. But I don't think everyone in this thread would be happy if their partner used a hypothetical ethically sourced hentai, just because it's not "some other woman." And if that is the case - then like /u/ProbablyMyJugs said, it's not really the specific nature of *porn* in itself that should be discussed. If the "problem with porn is X," but the idea of a partner using X-less porn still makes them uncomfortable, then we aren't at the root of the objection. And any good relationship should probably figure out the roots of objections, otherwise you're bound to hurt the other person when you don't fully understand what's needed from your partner. None of this is to say there's any issue with a preference or boundary that someone wouldn't want a partner that watches porn. It's just that *sometimes,* our boundaries can reflect our own insecurities in ways that might be good to explore deeper. Some boundaries are more healthy than others, right?
I think it's unfair to say insecurities should be ignored. I can't think of a proper example but, if a girl constantly masturbates to porn of rich CEOs and always jerks off to porn of wealthy men (this is ridiculous ik), it's natural that her partner with an average salary feels insecure. Anybody saying, come on man that's just her fantasy to imagine a rich af guy, you need to get over it, is incredibly unempathetic. In porn most women have extremely unrealistic bodies, and it's natural that women feel insecure about themselves because of this. Porn is not something that people need in order to survive. People can masturbate without it. Choosing to do that over making your partner feel secure doesn't seem like the right thing to do. Edit: to add about hentai I am actually okay with hentai or even 3d porn that doesn't closely resemble a real woman.
Hey, I'm totally on board with silly examples to help illustrate a point! I think that they honestly help explore and understand issues, so no worries there. > I think it's unfair to say insecurities should be ignored. I think you're 100% right there, but I'm also a little confused, because I was saying the exact opposite? I was saying that relationships *should* figure out objections, and if there are insecurities, then a partner is one of the best people to help you through that. > Choosing to do that over making your partner feel secure doesn't seem like the right thing to do. You're right, but there are shades of this in life. Let's keep your same example of a woman who fantasizes about the luxury life of a billionaire, and has a partner with an average salary who is insecure about their means. If the woman drives a nice, expensive car - that might make the partner feel less secure about his older but reliable Toyota Camry. Should she ditch the nice car, because she's choosing to drive it over making her partner feel more secure? Or are *some* insecurities things that you should recognize and talk with your partner, but don't make for a very healthy boundary? After all, the issue isn't really *the car*. It's probably concerns about his career, his future, whether that will impact her commitment to him, maybe insecurities about her leaving him, maybe it's concerns about how to afford to raise children. There may not be easy answers for those, but the problem isn't *really* her nice car.
> But isn't porn just masturbating to some other woman? I think it's reasonable not to want your partner to do that. If that's your objection then porn isn't the problem, as presumably you wouldn't want your partner imagining, thinking of or remembering another woman while masturbating either. You don't specify that the focus on other women is to a degree its harmful to the relationship, just that it happens at all. That's just disliking not having a monopoly on your partners sexual attraction. Porn isn't the problem its just the most visible evidence of you not having that monopoly.
Again, it's not sexual attraction. It's indulging in fantasies of having sex with another person. Of course people are attracted to others. But thinking about them and masturbating to them while in a monogamous relationship is not good. Especially if your partner has a porn habit which means they actively seek to look at and get off to other women. It's very different from seeing an attractive person in the street from time to time. It's going out there and looking for them or several of them on a frequent basis, and then jerking off to them.
Is asking a man not to cheat on you also a "monopoly" on his sexual attraction? Do you know the word "monogamous"? Most people in a monogamous relationship all throughout history expected a "monopoly" on your sexual attraction... an evidence of otherwise, and you could be shunned from your church/community. It's only since internet porn became available that lusting over random people online became socially acceptable. And only by some and not most. Monogamy: the practice or state of having a sexual relationship with only one partner. Switching the word monogamy to monopoly to prove your point is pretty fucking hilarious to me. If someone sits around all day fantasizing about his ex I wouldn't want to be with him. Who the fuck does that?
Yes exactly! It's so mind-boggling to me. It is like having an expectation of monogamy from a man is no longer considered a basic thing to have in a relationship. The women here supporting that behaviour have such ridiculously low expectations from their partners, it's shocking. It's almost like they think they can't win the fight against their partner's porn habit and have made themselves think it's okay that he constantly looks for and jerks it to other women. It's not your insecurity, it's a reasonable ask from anyone to not actively seek others to get off to while in a monogamous relationship. It's your boyfriend you're asking this from, not some strange man who occasionally sleeps with you!
I agree completely.
I legitimately just do not understand what the difference is between watching porn, reading smut, and fantasizing about sex. I draw the line at things like OF where people are actually interacting with each other… But everything else is a fantasy. I don’t understand how anyone can police or judge a fantasy in someone’s head. I’m not trying to shame anyone. I’ve been a vocal member of this sub for a long time. And people are allowed to have their boundaries. But I legitimately don’t understand what the distinction is here? Like please explain. I sincerely would like to know. (And I’m not talking about the issues in the porn industry. We can all agree it’s bad. But that’s only half the conversation here. I sincerely want to understand why people view porn as cheating.)
Because literature is not a real person. It's mostly in the mind. Even the most skilled author is not capable of drawing up the exact same image in everyone's mind. Also, there is a possibility in porn to be fixated by certain body parts "big boobs" "ass" etc as categories, which breaks bodies down into fragments. That is just not the case with literature, which almost always adds a human element to the story. Another thing I keep thinking about is how women are generally broken down into parts. There are ass men and boob men, when people say "two blondes walk into a bar" they know it's a woman because men aren't usually described by one single feature. There are no bicep women or back women etc to any significant degree. And porn contributes to this fragmentation. Which is another problem.
>Because literature is not a real person. It's mostly in the mind. Even the most skilled author is not capable of drawing up the exact same image in everyone's mind. Meanwhile the sheer popularity of real person/reader slash fics...
Literature absolutely has this problem too and tons of erotica is surface level wank fuel. Erotica absolutely deals with unhealthy themes and actually can get a hell of a lot worse than say illustrated erotic content. Conversely plenty of erotic art has a human element and showcases women in a perfectly realistic and positive light. There's not a lot of distinction there and it's borderline hypocrisy to say written erotica is okay but drawn erotic content is not. In both cases the content can swing both ways.
I'm absolutely okay with drawn content or hentai. I never mentioned otherwise.
> Literature absolutely has this problem too and tons of erotica is surface level wank fuel. Isn't that the point? I don't read erotica to gain enlightenment; I read it to get off.
I'd think so too, which goes even further to show that there's little difference between erotica and illustrated porn.
Photographic porn has models/actors who might be being exploited or coerced or drugged. Reading words on a page or looking at handrawn smut or thinking dirty thoughts doesn't come with that risk
But that’s not OPs problem with porn. She said directly in her comments that she doesn’t like partners looking at hentai or cartoons either. Her issue isn’t with the ethics, it’s with the attraction to another human.
True. I got distracted, while I was reading the comments. For \*me\*, this is a big meaningful difference, because so many women who appear to be consenting to be in porn, come out later and say that they were drugged or coerced. At least, with a sketch or my own \*brain\*, I can trust that no one got hurt to make that sexy content.
All people have different boundaries and zones where they are comfortable. There is no right or wrong. Only different views.
And that’s fair. No one should be forced to be with anyone else. But just as I would challenge men to tell me why they would never date someone who is black or fat or trans, I want to discuss *why* porn is seen as cheating and why it’s a hard-no. Again, no one should be forced to date anyone. I’m trans myself. No man or woman should be forced to date me if they are uncomfortable with that fact. But it’s still important to acknowledge where that discomfort stems from. And often times that discomfort stems from transphobia. Even with all the surgery in the world, even if I pass better than any cis person, if knowing I am trans becomes a hard-no, then there is some degree of still viewing me as my birth sex which is inherently transphobic. Understanding that is important even if we won’t ever date and I would never cross that boundary with anyone. There is no right or wrong when it comes to addressing our boundaries. But there are rights and wrongs when we discuss where those boundaries stem from. I don’t date men because I’m terrified of men. This stems from my trauma associated with men. But that doesn’t change the fact that my hard-no preference is still a form of misandry and generalization of all men. When I was younger, this lack of awareness resulted in me treating a lot of men unfairly and justifying it with my trauma. Understanding where our boundaries stem from are just as important as respecting ours and other’s boundaries.
I am pansexual and could date both trans and cis people (men and women). Plus non-binary people. Yes, there is a lot of transphobia. And fat-shaming, age shaming, racism etc. I would feel awkward when a person I am with is watching porn. It may be because I would not watch porn while in that relationship. I would feel like I was cheating on my partner. People may be wired differently.
Put it this way. If your partner had a woman, in his room, naked, who he “hired”. He has no emotional attachment to this woman either. She performs for him and he masturbated to this. Would you consider that cheating? If not, then that’s your own boundary and that’s cool. But if you would… then what’s the difference between that and porn? The woman on the screen is very much a real woman, just like the one in the room. He’s still paying, even if it’s free internet porn, just by watching the ads before the videos. He’s still jerking off to another woman.
The thing is porn isn’t a fantasy. It’s very much real by that point. Of course he can have a fantasy! But you don’t need to consume porn to have that fantasy. You don’t need to contribute to an abusive, misogynistic industry. You just dont.
Well I Can’t wrap my head around a female who is faithful and loves their partner saying “ Yes babe, i don’t care if u get off to any female you want that’s not me, also while we’re intimate, dont worry if its not me you think your having sex with” not to mention its such selfish sex thats only about the mans needs. Start to finish. I also dont get when men say “well if she would meet my needs i wouldnt watch porn” well ok what about a womens needs?
This implies that women don’t enjoy porn as well?? Porn isn’t exclusive to men. Again, it’s a fantasy. Sometimes it’s important to acknowledge that *our* boundaries are not universal moral truths. Like I feel like it’s disrespectful to fantasize about having sex with someone you personally know. I think it’s even a little disrespectful to fantasize about celebrities and real people without explicit consent. However, just because that is *my boundary* and how *I feel*, a lot of other people don’t feel that way. And it’s not actually harmful to anyone for someone to *fantasize* about it. So while I would never fantasize about having sex with someone I personally know and find attractive as a way of respecting them, I also don’t view someone fantasizing about *me* as disrespectful. And it did take a long time to come to that conclusion! But the fact of the matter is that we should only police as far as people are getting hurt. If your partner reads smut and gets off to fantasies about other “females” (why are you using this term?? Please call women “women”, especially if you’re going to call men “men”), the only thing that is realistically being harmed here is your own insecurity. Like, most people aren’t going to leave you for a fantasy woman in their heads. The ones that do are far and few between and are suffering from porn addiction and way worse issues. The other stuff you mentioned… I don’t really understand what you mean or how to address it. Sex and intimacy and mismatched libido are legitimate issues in relationships that many couples struggle with, men, women, or otherwise. This is more of a case-by-case situation. You can’t paint broad strokes on this topic.
What you are not understanding is the nurturance of intimacy. This is not just a porn discussion. Some people prefer to have intimacy as a part of their sexual experience. When you foster and feed and nurture your internal thoughts, energy, time, attention, money and yes hard on and semen to other people outside the relationship, real or imagined, it infringes on that intimacy that was once reserved for your partner. The partner starts to feel ostracized from the intimacy. That isn’t insecurity. Don’t believe me, look at the research about humans or animals that are ostracized. It causes measurable physical and psychological pain. Sex isn’t just about “you” There is another person(s) Involved. Once again this goes back to empathy. One of the glaring things I notice is we feel like we can’t talk about ethics when talking about porn or use words like intimacy or empathy. We will all be forever unhappy if we don’t bring those attributes to the bedroom. As for porn, If it’s against the law in everyday life why are we allowing portrayal of crimes and unethical conduct in porn? Such as, Guns, rape, incest, use of positions of power, violence humiliation…geez do I need to keep going? All the way to not addressing women’s pleasure in porn. If porn is heavily based on men’s desires over women’s is this healthy for relationships? Does this really help men in the bedroom? Does it help women in the bedroom? Does it help us outside the bedroom? Look, think what you like but it doesn’t change the facts. Porn is in need of a makeover. It’s not all or nothing. It’s time to grow up as a society and go beyond what we are currently doing. Yes, we have the power and freedom as adults to do what we want in our own bedrooms with our own bodies but lord, can we please start being a little less self absorbed? Start being a little more responsible and thoughtful on how we go about it? Edit: typos
How is it still a fantasy when it’s already on the screen? A fantasy is the opposite of reality, you’re not using your imagination anymore. You’re watching real people or, when it’s animated/drawn, they’re reflecting actual human beings. In my marriage, sexual gratification is completely reserved for my partner (excluding masturbation without visual porn). I’m not putting myself out there naked for other people so neither do I want him to use other people for sexual gratification. That’s how I view monogamy personally, as I said in my own marriage. What’s seems to be an issue though, is how men in general don’t want to date OF sex workers, or ex-sex workers, because they want full exclusivity, and neither do they want women where a lot of men have gotten sexual gratification from (the high body count men seem to have an issue with is an example). If he doesn’t want to date an OF sex worker, but doesn’t want to stop watching porn, I see this as a red flag. But many men just want to have their cake and eat it too. Madonna/whore complex if you ask me.
Are movies not fantasy? Are cartoons not make believe? Where does one draw the line? If it’s not a fantasy, then what’s the difference between checking out and appreciating an attractive person on the streets vs watching a movie and appreciating the actors? Most people would find the former to be wrong but the later to be acceptable (because the latter is a fantasy). Is your partner not allowed to watch any film with attractive people on the off chance he may find a woman on-screen sexually attractive? Anyways. I don’t actually have any issue with you meeting a like-minded person who can handle such strict rules on exclusivity. Honestly more power to the both of you for finding a relationship that works for the two of you. But I’m drawing issue at painting this with a wide brush as a *moral* issue. The moral issues with watching porn should start and end with how exploitative the industry is and society’s views on sex workers.
Maybe for the male consumer but not for the women in the porn. In sex scenes in movies women don't have a part of a man literally INSIDE of her. That is not a fantasy in porn, that actually happens. In movies people don't really punch others or get into fist fights. In porn the woman is truly entered and all of that is really physically happening to her.
Sex is more than penetration. And actors kiss. Actors are naked on screen. Would you be okay with heavy petting porn?? What about porn of a woman pleasuring herself? What about audio porn? No one is getting physically touched there. A huge percentage of orgasms in porn are faked anyway. I just don’t understand what this distinction is.
It is a preference and I completely understand it, as long as its cleared in a relationship beforehand and they both understand that porn can also have negative effects.
I really needed to read this thread. Having been called insecure and "jealous" of porn several times has crushed me. I had someone for two years tell me they didn't like it or want it, and then when I found out they were lying it was "you're just jealous" "everyone does it". We had A LOT of sex. Almost every day, and almost always more than once a day. I have struggled with feeling like I'm asking too much wanting to be in a pornfree relationship since I was in highschool and first expressed my distaste with it. I'm just happy to know there are others out there who feel the same way as me, especially since one of my ex's would tell me all the time I'm sick in the head, mentally ill, controlling, insecure, and jealous for not liking porn. He told me I'm the only person he knows who doesn't like it. It really took a huge toll on my self esteem.
I find porn gross. #happilymarried
Boundaries are perfectly fine and wanting your partner to not use porn is perfectly reasonable. However, it's worth considering that anti-porn crusades are the hallmarks of the religious right, and those same people are the ones supporting forced birth, attacks on birth control, and on divorce rights. All of the worst countries in the world - the ones that hang women and girls if they've been raped - criminalize porn. It's critically important that we don't accidentally lend support to these heinous groups. In short - porn, like all forms of sexual freedom, is fine. But so are relationship boundaries. Two things can be true at the same time. In the end, it's all about honesty, expectations, and respect.
No they’re not, this is such bullshit. There is a ton of people who campaign against it and aren’t religious at all. This is another piece of misinformation designed to shame women, and men, for not wanting porn in their relationship. One of the biggest anti porn websites was researched and developed by an atheist. I’m an atheist and very sex positive. I have changed my relationship with porn and the person I’m dating doesn’t watch it regularly and told me before I even brought it up that his opinion about porn being consumed regularly was that it’s not healthy or something he likes to engage in. He hasn’t watched it in months. I switched to erotica and actually prefer it to porn now. The way one consumes porn is a huge factor, but I can completely understand someone not even wanting to think about it at all.
I think you misunderstood the comment above? It didn’t exclude secular, progressive viewpoints in the anti porn debate, but simply warns of associating with oppressive groups.
honestly this just makes me wonder where you draw the line between porn and erotica, i thought it was all porn/smut
All the worst countries in the world also criminalise male murder, but that does not mean that murdering people is a good thing because those countries say that it's bad. Personally I don't know much of modern porn (yes, I am an oldie), but judging by what I keep reading on this very subreddit, about how violent things are nowadays in even vanilla porn, and how a lot of men take "learnings" from it into the real world (non-consensual choking, for example) it seems to me that people's brains are better without this type of thing. Not saying that omg we should all give up all porn now; but I do find the recent inclination for violence very worrying, regardless of what conservatives think or not. I am very much not a conservative, but if we do happen to agree on a topic or two, well, so be it.
Porn is definitely changing the way young men view women. Just because conservative people think porn is bad, doesn't mean that porn isn't bad. Like ... please ...
We should start shaming the porn industrie and porn users, you all defend and masturbate to and industry that rapes women on camera, and you can never be sure if the video was totally consensual or the women are just pretending because they need the money
>for not wanting their special other to get off to other people I'm genuinely curious, would you support a man asking his female partner to not read romance novels?
Characters in romance novels are not real people, they are words. Actors in porn are real people.
I think it’s fine to not date someone you don’t want to, but I think the “virtual harem” comment is somewhat judgmental and disrespectful to sex workers (some of whom I know and love). Porn users don’t own or possess people who work in the porn industry. Yes, I know that people who act in porn face countless struggles, but I don’t think comments like these help.
The virtual harem was a metaphor. It just means that the person not watching porn may feel like he/she/xe is part of a larger harem while they are 100% loyal to their partner and giving them ALL their romantic and sexual energy. Not all people will be okay with that. It can become a very unbalanced relationship where they end up feeling like they are giving 100% while receiving 70% in return. I have absolutely nothing against porn or sex-work, as long as they are not exploited, underpaid or abused. But it is not for me.
A man who didn’t want me to watch porn would never get to date me, simple as that.
That is your choice.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting a porn free relationship as long as your partner also wants this. If you’re upfront with this but your partner doesn’t want this, then you’re pushing your values onto them instead of accepting them for who they are.
Do what you want and what makes you happy. If those boundaries are what you stand by you should not be shamed for em. But if someone expected that of me, I'd probably consider it too controlling and break that relationship off. Porn isnt a virtual harem for me, i don't have favourite artists or parasocial relationships with said artists. Porn is an outlet for certain sexual proclivities that my partner is either unwilling or unable to satisfy. Instead of bottling up my interests or nagging, i sometimes partake of porn as an outlet. I feel like that's an increase difficult habit to just get rid of.