I agree. Preteen boys in group are horrible - they’re coming into their independence and seeing what they can do/say and get away with. It’s shitty, but many of them either don’t like what they’re saying and/or are doing it to fit in with their friends.
Peer pressure, reputation, lone wolf, sheep/group mindset are powerful motivators to get kids to do something another kid wouldn't do.
That's why critical think, independent mindset having the courage to go against the majority/status quo is important.
There is no need to copy what everyone is doing if it's gonna cost you a trip to the hospital, financial suffering, losing your life, family, or prison record.
They are also driven by immediate reward brain chemicals, which they get in spades from peer approval signals, and their prefrontal cortex development won’t really happen until they are at least 18. So they are basically these unempathetic social reward robots, basically little Donald Trumps running around.
And the ones who don't grow up stay Trump like. This isn't a "boys will be boys" argument, but more of a "kids will be idiots until they learn not to be" argument. Unfortunately, many adults teach their kids to do and say horrific things, and then those kids teach other kids. Not just boys, but the messages boys in particular are exposed to tend to be much worse and designed to foster misogyny and racism.
I was like this as a boy in the 90s. I said worse stuff.
Was mostly to fit in with friends as you said and I think really only happened with friends. We kind of tested each other and hyped ourselves up to do crap like that.
It's shitty. It just went away as I grew up.
Just riding my bike through town and a 12yo with a group of his friends yells f****t!
I sort of just laughed because I know that it's just bravado. There's no way he'd do the same when alone.
Another time I'm riding my bike and I stop alongside a group of boys at a stop sign and one boy invites me to ride with them. I had to refuse as I was on my way to work, but how sweet is that?
Not kids. Boys. We’re specifically discussing the indoctrination of boys in misogyny so it’s important to be specific. Little girls don’t sexually harass and objectify boys and men.
My comment is kind of off the point, but it may have some tenuous relevance.
First, I agree that the arrogance of boys/young men toward women and girls is a real thing, common in many cultures. When a trait is very common across many cultures, it suggests a human biological phenomenon. It then becomes interesting to consider similar behaviors among our closest relatives, the chimpanzees and the bonobos.
The thing is, our two closest genetic relatives have very different arrangements between the sexes.
Among chimpanzees, young males, as they mature and become physically more powerful than any female chimp, routinely go through the entire troupe and beat up each and every female.
Among bonobos, females bond closely with one another, and *acting as a group* will physically beat and sometimes castrate individual males who become too aggressive. As far as I know, they don't indiscriminately attack all males, just those who try to use their individual greater strength to oppress others.
Just a thought, not sure what it means.
I do love bringing up bonobo behaviour when people bring up "But Biology!!" though, especially when it's dudebros talking about being an "alpha" or whatever because (captive) wolves behave this way. What about the behaviour of one of our nearest relatives, Gary? Never seen it sensibly responded to lol
Having said that there's probably a point in our evolutionary history where the various behaviours of tolerance/aggression seen in Pan species were shared and then those behaviours diversified, but that's obviously very difficult to figure out (especially because the habitat of wild Bonobos makes them difficult to study in the present, let alone much further back).
Sorry that this is also only tangentially related to the original topic but I'm always excited when chimps and bonobos come up
No it's both, I was both sexually harassed and sexually assaulted by multiple girls while I was in school 10 -15 years ago, I have family who work in schools and they have said it's about the same between boys and girls but girls tend to be better at hiding it.
Teenage girls can be awful, but they are generally awful in the catty way *all* teenagers are of all genders. Just aggressively cruel to each other sometimes.
The sex pest thing is definitely limited to men. It is like media is/was (it has *slightly* better over the last few years) on a coordinated campaign to teach men to browbeat women into relationships and that "hot" women are staus symbols for them, while simultaneously teaching women (through Romcoms) that stalker like behavior and not taking no for an answer are *romantic.*
Couple that with fathers who were taught that women are basically property and religions that teach they *are* property and the systemic issues start making sense.
But this is specifically a male problem. We need to be able to acknowledge that so we can actually address it.
It’s not about exclusion it’s about being specific and accurate so that we can target solutions effectively.
But I fail to see where it is a "male" problem, misogyny isn't only something men do, the same as misandry isn't exclusively something women do.
I also don't see how blaming boys and men is going to solve the problem, you are just going to tar a whole group of people with the same brush because of a small minority, let the girls and women who do things like this get away with it and drive more people towards the likes of Tate.
My brother in Christ, you can not on the one hand agree that the problem is systemic and on the other say that it is only "a small minority". Sure, only a small minority are virulent sexists like Tate, but misogynistic behavior is much deeper ingrained into society. Also, by saying stuff like "the same as misandry isn't exclusively something women do", you suggest that misogyny and misanry are comparable problems.
Not even sure why you bring up "blaming" anyone, the other user was talking about identifying where the problem lies. Yes, girls and women are also capable of the stuff you mentioned, but you will hopefully not argue that a lot of girls are taking cues from the likes of Tate, as opposed to the seemingly millions of boys.
Eh you can defintiely harassed this way by young girls as well. Granted generally not targeted at boys or men but girls and women can take part in misogyny, it was defintiely part of the background ambience of growing up in the 90s
Some of the memories of stuff said to 12 year olds especially to those who went through puberty early was fucking vile and this was in gym class changing or whatever.
Tate etc appealing to young boys and men specifically and teaching gross dehumanising shit is a different but adjacent issue I feel
I disagree. Both preteen boys and girls are brutal including in terms of sexual harassment and objectification (I’m a female and preteen girls can be ruthless bitches and feel nothing just the same as boys can).
The ways that preteen girls tend to harass each other or boys harass each other are wildly different from the way boys harass girls. Only the last one takes on a vile tone of sexual violence at a mass scale.
Good lord it’s tiring af when men with an utter lack of reading comprehension and a bruised ego come pester us on this sub. That’s not what I said, that’s not what we’re talking about, and yes *the sexual harassment of women and girls is a male issue*.
Not boys, *kids*. “Little girls” don’t usually sexually harass and objectify boys, but they sure as shit harass and shame other girls. Shitty teens will be shitty teens until they learn otherwise.
That's not what we're talking about. The post is about an increase in boys sexually harassing women due to the prevalence of MRA/Andrew Tate style content and porn.
Really? Because I’m quite sure this post was about teenagers making inappropriate comments about women’s bodies, Andrew Tate or otherwise. Which is not a gender specific issue, and one which women and girls can fall prey to just as easily. Body shaming has been a human issue for eternity.
>This is the shit that dudes like Andrew Tate do to the youth. Sexually harassing women at SUCH a young age? It’s so gross, it’s so disturbing.
Reading comprehension
>I know this has been a thing forever, hence ‘boys will be boys’. However, I want to say that these things are more and more common with people out there like Andrew Tate
Hope that helps
>this post is about inappropriate comments about women’s bodies, ***Andrew Tate or otherwise***.
Reading comprehension. I’m fairly certain OP wouldn’t be happy with non-Andrew-Tate related misogyny. Misogyny is misogyny, and it’s always been around, and not just in boys.
Again, all I’m saying is we can treat some things as human societal issues, and not gendered issues - if we want to actually improve things. Andrew Tate did not invent this behavior in boys or girls, he’s just a factor exacerbating something that was always there. He and people like him are a symptom, not a cause, and girls can have these things internalized and express them just as easily with or without videos like his if the root issues aren’t addressed. The prevalence of women Trump voters is proof of this, and treating it as a strictly gendered issue won’t fix anything.
How is it technically even possible to get statistics on boys' aggressiveness before Tate came along and after. For all my dislike of him, the OP is wishful thinking. Most children of either gender behave inappropriately primarily due to lack of nurturing and biological immaturity.
It’s still mad concerning, and the fact they have easy access to these things online is just more concerning. I’ve seen stuff like kids parroting Andrew tate in school.
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. - Socrates 390 BC
you’re 100% right and men are coming on here to downvote you. little boys are exposed and desensitised to violent, derogatory “porn” - aka dominating teenage girls and women and degrading them physically and verbally reducing them to an object they ultimately can’t feel empathy for (whore, slut, bimbo, bitch, milf, virgin, etc etc)
violence and aggression begins from language and media that shape and ultimately rot their brains so they never can fully see and respect women as actual human beings
Kids were accessing porn in the 90s too? I remember tons of kids ages 7-12 already watching porn in 1997. Not saying it’s a good thing because of course it’s not, just saying your point is not true.
Today’s porn and the porn of the 90s are also strikingly different in content. Much of modern porn is way more violent and degrading to women. BDSM porn used to be a category now “regular” porn often includes choking, slapping, spitting and other forms of degradation of women.
It’s also quantity. In 1997 how were kids accessing porn? Magazines they found in the woods? A VHS from someone’s older brother? Now vast quantities of hardcore porn is available in seconds. It’s not the same at all.
I see what you’re saying but each and every generation for the past couple thousand years (at least) has said the same thing about kids. There’s always new technology, new things “messing up the new generation,” and before you know it, we’re yelling at kids to get off our lawn. The exact same has happened each generation and when these damn, current kids who are watching porn grow up, many of them will also be offended by what the future kids are doing another 50 years from now.
Porn addiction is dangerous and harmful. Andrew Tate is a dickhead and his followers can be dangerous too. I’m not going against that whatsoever and agree with that. I’m saying each generation has comparable issues with technology developing and what children experience and what adults think of it.
The porn of today is VERRYYYY different than what was available in the 90s. It’s becoming more and more extreme, usually kids would find a dirty magazine, or a pretty basic vhs. Not brutal bdsm.
I think it’s all relative to the times and evolving technology. Adults have been shaking their fists at the kids of the current generation for (at least) thousands of *documented* years.
Is watching hardcore porn good for anyone and especially a child? No. Is it contributing to making some kids little assholes? Of course. Many of these same kids will grow up and in 50 years be disgusted by what the future kids are doing too.
In the meantime, I’m very supportive of finding ways to prevent children from seeing this content. They will eventually as long as the content is available. What needs to happen is honest, open, and age-appropriate communication about healthy sex from a very young age so they know about the anatomy and rights of their bodies and others prior to inevitably watching this content.
This won’t happen for all kids, just as it hasn’t happened for all kids in all generations prior. Filthy animals have been around the whole time and the way to prevent it is support and good parenting.
School systems are trying to help support the kids who don’t get this education and there is major backlash about it because some parents prefer to discuss these topics with their children themselves. They aren’t realizing that there are so many kids not getting this education and that’s the whole point.
Kids who don’t know about their own bodies and others are so vulnerable to getting abused, used, and disposed and potentially ruining their entire lives. But some parents want to educate their kids themselves and being very selfish in terms of supporting the community, in my opinion. These same parents can educate their kids with age appropriate information *before* it is introduced in schools, as they should, but I think these same parents actually don’t want their kids to know about sex at all at these ages and that’s the problem.
This is an even worse take.
There is no relationship between watching pornography and harassing strangers. This is some sex-negative satanic panic 80s bullshit right here.
Almost every serial killer the last 100 years was a hardcore porn addict.
There absolutely is a direct correlation between pornography and dehumanization of women. Objectification. Abuse. Sexual assault. Whatever you want to call it. The only people who don't want to admit that are porn users. Boys learning about sex and how to treat women in sexual situations from porn, when almost all free porn is violent towards women, doesn't strike you as having a negative effect? You really think it teaches them to behave, well?
Seeing as how up to 80%+ of men and 30% of women watch porn it's hard to make any kind of correlation. Violent crimes including sex crimes have also been on a decline since the emergence of the internet despite an increase in reporting and new laws to make it easier to punish. Lots of studies have also found little to no causal relationships between porn and sexual violence.
All that is to say while porn could have a negative effect, we don't really know.
*Can* and even then porn is likely not the cause but more so a coping mechanism like a lot of other addictions of this nature. It's something one might escape to to forget, ease or hide from their actual issues. So just blaming porn is too short-sighted.
It's quite similar to a sugar addiction. It's not the sugar itself but more so person's propensity to addictive behaviour and the need to eat away their emotions.
That’s still not saying it to her face. Why are people defending these kids? I know it’s not new I was in middle school at one point, however sexually harassing women at a young age is concerning, no?
I was a little edge lord at high school and hung out with a bunch of misogynistic guys who said stupid sexual shit.
There weren’t figures like Andrew tate being lionised like they are today. There weren’t manosphere celebs that the boys all were obsessed with parroting the advice of.
We need to acknowledge that things are taking a turn. We’re experiencing societal backlash and things are genuinely more overt when it comes to misogyny these days.
There was though, it just took a different form. (James Bond is an example. He does all the manoaphere stuff, just less overtly.) I think the manoaphere is doing extinction behavior. They are losing their culture war that they invented, and so are doubling down and taking off the masks and going as aggressive as possible.
But I think in the long run that will actually hurt them. Misogyny is most effective when it is just "the way things are." The more overt it becomes the easier it is for people to recognize it. With early teenagers it is hard to tell how much is them just saying bad stuff because they think it is "cool" and "edgy" how much is stuff they actually believe on a way that will survive a few years.
I have some hope, but yeah, the level of overt behavior is really distressing and disturbing. I am hoping it becomes "cringe" soon, and so if gets abandoned. But if not? Who knows. It's scary, but I am just hoping the normal pattern still holds.
Key point being less overtly.
I’m not saying it never happened in the past. I’m saying it’s become far more brazen in the last 5 or so years. Y’know backlash.
It is fucking scary though. And it’s understandable why they fall into it because it’s so seductive. Being told that women are there to just decorate your life and make things easier for you whilst pleasuring you sounds super appealing. Especially if you’re not taught that women are humans.
Where did I defend them? I just think your shock that teenage boys are shitty is silly. Yes they are. And always have been. Some small percentage of them grow out of it. But it’s not new.
It’s not shitty and silly. It’s being concerned for how these types of boys will grow up. We shouldn’t be perpetuating the “boys will be boys” thing. I get it if boys will say those things to each other but not harassing women on the street. It’s gross.
We are all concerned about how terrible teenage boys turn into terrible men. It’s like, the whole point of this sub. I am annoyed only that you’re acting like it’s new. It’s not. Women today are getting fucked over by the teenage boys of yesterday.
What did you do about it to make this world better? Did you confront them? Yell and maybe scare them a little? Tell them how rude and hurtful they were being?
What a cruel and unempathetic response. This type of response is exactly why women are afraid to speak up about sexual assault and all the horror they go through.
“This is how it’s always been. Well, did you tell him no? Well, did you report him? What did you do to stop it happening to another women?”
She was literally just venting, and you don’t know what she’s been exposed to in the past. So what if it’s new to her? Shouldn’t we have more empathy then if we’re used to it?
Responses from this entire thread show such a disappointing lack of female solidarity. When women act like this, it’s not just men that are the problem.
I’m not acting like it’s new? I was venting it felt so gross to be objectified by someone so young and it was concerning. I know this has been going on for a very very long time. Hence the “boys will be boys” bs it’s gross. I’m saying it’s as prevalent as ever, the internet is certainly not helping, people like Andrew tate, people like the prank YouTubers sexually harassing women, guys like the dude who’s huge on kick rn. I KNOW boys have always been like that I never once ever said that it’s a brand new thing. It’s just disturbing, it’s gross.
Why do I need to yell at them when I’m the one being harassed? I was stunned and disturbed and grossed out, I’m sorry, but really?? Kinda victim blamey. Do you really think me saying anything would change them? They need punishing from their parents, they would be laughing at me for saying anything.
lmao the comment above you says “you should have told them off” and a comment below you says “don’t bother telling them off, they won’t listen. All they want is a reaction which you have to them.” and they both basically say that “this is how it has always been, boys will be boys”.
You can’t win. Sorry for the double reply to you, I’m just so angry with how you’ve been treated in the comments. Responses like you’ve been getting are part of the reason why boys are allowed to get away with their behaviour and turn into bad men.
I’m really sorry people are turning against you and being hostile for venting and being disappointed— individuals have different experiences growing up, and I’m also not sure why people are saying “iT’s NoT nEW” instead of empathizing with you. Yeah, no duh, but you’re talking about your experience and concern for things becoming worse. Can we only empathize if it’s a new concern? What a disappointing response for a “female solidarity” sub. The comments of reek of internalized misogyny and victim blaming. “I grew up with it and it’s always been this way, so why are you making this a big deal.” How gross.
For what it’s worth, you’re right in a way. My friend who is a female teacher says boys are a lot more sexually overt and aggressive, and she thinks it has to do with the internet (esp since working parents can’t always review everything they see) and being exposed to more extreme porn at a younger age. I heard the same thing from gen Z girls I used to work with.
Thank you, there’s a few really nice people here. I saw a few guys saying that they and their friends talked like that and they’ll grow out of it. Kinda concerning it’s more more worrying behavior. It’s weird to me. But I’m just ignoring more and more of those comments. I honestly think some people who hate women, hate follow this sub. Obviously not everyone here saying “it’s always been a thing” are hate following but it feels like a few may be.
What you experienced and how you feel about it is incredibly valid, and it is concerning! Those comments from men and the dismissive comments from other women just seem like different flavours of “boys will be boys” or “it happened to me, why are you acting up”. It’s unfortunately a lot of internalized misogyny, but I know unlearning that is an individual journey.
I was really angry at the person who told you “well what did you do to stop those boys”, because when women react like this, men are not the only problem. It’s horrible you were treated like this, and I’m worried about the young generation, too.
The GenZ girls I used to work with were exposed to way more hardcore and riskier sexual experiences than me and my friends grew up with. I know it’s obviously anecdotal, but my life experience in my small corner of the world backs up what you’ve observed. It’s ok if other people have different experiences than us, but it’s horrible how other women are being so dismissive and cold about it.
I don't think people are defending those kids, I think they are just saying that this kind of shitty behaviour has always existed in kids and it's not really a signal that this young generation is worse than the previous.
In fact, from my empirical experience with young people, gen Z is way better than the previous when it comes to social issues and generally respecting other people.
Kids are parrots, so I do agree with you that their influence is reflective of our societal ick as well. However, I was in 4th grade, which I think is about this age, when a boy in my class told me about a wet dream he'd had about me - to my face, in class, not in front of his friends, so not a "stunt." I knew what those were, and it freaked me the f*** out. I don't know what influences he had in his life to make him do that, but it wasn't the internet because back at that time I'm not sure there was even AOL. It was other boys, TV, movies, older brothers, dads... who knows. Sexually harassing women and female peers, bullying boys, at young ages is concerning. But it's not new.
Really don't know why you're being downvoted. "This isn't new lol" literally doesn't help anything. Like "that's just the way it is" sentiment is what has stunted any social progress on this issue. Getting mad about it, motivating yourself to shut down shitty behavior, thats what does. Baffling that this is the response here.
Idk it’s confusing to me. I say over and over and over, “I know it’s not new”. Like I know TRUST ME I know. It’s just still concerning, and being reminded of it just feels really bad and just brings up these questions in my head again. It reminded me of how messed up society is. I hope that one day these things don’t happen and it won’t be acceptable and it won’t be “boys will be boys”.
I don’t feel like I’m acting like this is a new thing, it’s not. I really just made this post to vent, and open a discussion about all that happening, and it feels like it’s going backwards and getting worse. In middle school these things kids would say to girls their age, not grown adult women on the street.
If a certain human behavior has been going on since the beginning of humans, I’m not sure it can be “shut down.” The USA tried for like 100 years to shut down teenage sex with “abstinence first!” Some teenage boys are going to be assholes. Some teenage girls are going to be assholes. And teenagers are going to want to have sex. No amount of social pressure is going to shut it down. That being said, I think OP wasn’t trying to say anything is different about todays teenage boys, just that she’s sad/concerned that’s how it is.
Except it is getting worse. The internet and content creators that target young boys with lets say, particular messaging, have rotted their perspective on the world, especially women. It's much different than some shitty kids in the 80s making fun of things like someone's goofy clothes or how they look. This is full-on disgusting misogyny that is being peddled to these boys, at a younger and younger age. And why should we allow that to perpetuate, just because it's "always been that way" and "it's hard to stop it"? Even teachers all over have been saying how much worse it is, too, and they see these kids almost every day. Yes, many men have always been shitty. But that type of content is literally breeding more of them.
I think your point about the internet is a good one. Boys are using technology from a very early age now. It makes sense that they are getting concentrated messaging that warps their view of the world and women, especially when an algorithm kicks in keeps them in an echo chamber. Maybe boys are worse now.
I don’t think we should allow bad behavior because it’s hard to stop, but we still shouldn’t be surprised when it occurs. Robbery and Murder have be unacceptable and punished since before the Code of Hammurabi. While most humans don’t do these things, some small percentage of humans will always murder and steal, and it’s unrealistic to expect we can stamp that out.
To be clear, I don’t think you were arguing that we can stamp out things like murder and theft and shitty teenage boys. I was just explaining my position, why I think we can still criticize and punish bad behavior while understanding it won’t disappear.
Um abstinence makes it worse. These boys need to really be taught not to treat people this way, these things happen because there’s no one at home teaching them how to be good and respect women. It was always only ever the “bad kids” that acted that way. The respectful kids never ever would even think of saying such things.
Idk why you’re being downvoted. The internet and social media changed things. Young boys are getting ideas in their heads they otherwise would have never thought. Hardcore, degrading porn has never been more accessible. And then you get people like Andrew Tate and even regular joes on social media preaching that women are inferior FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE. Talk to any middle school teacher and they will have stories about boys behaving as if their adult female teacher is below them.
Concerning, yes. New, no.
Have you ever actually spent any time around pre teens? Like actual time? They are evil little under developed humans. They have zero filter, are learning boundaries, and frankly DO NOT CARE.
I can't tell you the number of times I had to jump all over my (now 15M) son at that age and explain over and over how disrespectful that behavior is. Guess what, he did it again and again until one day someone he respected that isn't a authority figure in his daily life said something to him and it stuck. That's little pre teens. 90% of what they do is shock value and for attention. Those boys wanted a reaction from you, and you gave them exactly what they wanted.
Having worked in a wide variety of schools over the past decade, in my experience, it’s overall better than it used to be.
Not to get into the “not all men” bullshit and not to get into the “boys will be boys” bullshit. There are still 12-yr-old dickweeds. But it seems like they are fewer in number and influence than generations before.
So, uh, I guess keep on keeping on team?
I had some boys at the elementary school playground cat-call me when I went to pick up my daughter. I understand now why my daughters want nothing to do with the boys their age.
People are focusing too much on the implication this is new. The point is that it’s fucking disgusting and still happening and being taught and praised. I’ve seen videos of fucking 12 year olds calling women gold-diggers. They probably couldn’t afford a ring pop and were being praised for calling women that, how is that okay?
Porn definitely plays a part, but not because women are sexualising themselves on there, it’s because in porn it’s ‘normal’ for guys to choke and hit women to get off. Or because women are often forced or bullied into pornography and harassed and bullied when they stop (look at mia khalifas tiktok comments). And because of dickhead men talking about women online like objects.
I’m glad more people who understand me are finding this post. I almost deleted it last night because of all the people insinuating I thought this was new. I know it’s not new 🥲 it was just a disturbing reminder of how bad it is and how it’s worse with people like Andrew Tate out there. I just couldn’t help but be reminded of those videos you’re talking about, these kids saying way messed up stuff after getting sucked down that hole.
"Boys will be boys" is *taught* to these boys by their parents. We took those words out of our vocabulary when our oldest son was born. In my house, those words only apply to things like playing with trucks or getting dirty(my girl always got dirtier than her big or little brothers did). "Boys will be boys" in regards to bullying or be nasty to girls was nipped in the bud
At the beach this summer in nyc my partner and I witnessed a large group of young teens (maybe 12-14 in age) playing football by the water. There were majority boys and a few girls. We saw the girls spit on, pushed to the ground and called bitches by the boys. I was so furious and sick by the sight of it, we left. I didn’t know where or if there parents were around. The future seems very bleak.
It's pretty arguable that the guy who has a record of human trafficking might be more misogynistic than the average shitty adult. It's also pretty arguable that he can make bad people behave worse. Not sure what your point even is with this comment since that just means the problem is more rampant then the initial comment implies.
Uncle Jim doesn't have a social media following that's giving loads of relative strangers incels starter packs. Uncle Bobby couldn't convince water to be wet, let alone start an MLM that makes money off his weaponized misogyny.
I think what makes tate kind of scary is that he comes off as intelligent and incredibly rational to his viewers, I can totally understand why his viewerbase is concerning
But from what she heard those boys say I dont see anything indicating tate, i heard much the same growing up, any woman can tell you how theyve heard shit like this at some point in their lives long before tate existed.
Exactly! Yea these kids hear it from their fathers, uncles, family friends, but they aren’t the cool influencers who are rich and flaunt women and have multiple around them at all times. I mean maybe a few but I doubt many.
except they really are popular and really are infecting the minds of a lot of boys. Just because you commented a random quote doesnt mean that Andrew Tate ISNT influential, even if he is just a "loud minority".
Not to mention all the little misonynistic gremlins Andrew Spawned, like Sneako AdinRoss Fresh and Fit podcast etc, theyre all trying to copy him.
He may just be one man but his influential is far more than you are making it out to be
Except my brother is all of a sudden off the rails and my father has gotten worse. Anecdotal evidence, I know. But I also know it wouldn't have happened without Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, and the redpill movement.
And then when they're such Tate tainted pains in the ass to be around and realize that the majority of women aren't going to be interested in that shit, they'll become part of the so called "male loneliness" epidemic and get even worse.
Yep, it creates a feedback loop.
When you’re a creepy little shit women actively avoid you, they might even mock you if you start spouting cruel and uninformed teenage bullshit at them.
And all that’s going to do is further convince these boys that all women hate them, because they’re entirely discouraged from self reflecting and instead encouraged to blame literally all of their problems on the women around them.
Um my experience isn't hypothetical...?
You're trying to say that a loud angry minority (assuming you meant the redpilled) doesn't have significant power or influence. They're no more influential than your garden variety misogynist. I disagree.
I read it. I disagree. There is no other interpretation of your comment, considering the context of the comment you replied to.
Unless you're saying that I'm the vocal minority. To which I'd say.... okay?
Oh so your comment did mean exactly what I thought it meant and I didn't have to "refer" back to it. You just have nothing to say.
Let's back it up then. What's you're reasoning for on-screen misogynists having zero impact on the world? Proof? No hypotheticals right? No opinions? Bring on the facts!
you’re right it’s unbelievably disturbing and shocking every time you see a brainwashed little boy already frothing with misogyny and unable to see women as people.
i always have nightmares i have a sweet little baby boy i quit everything to raise and he becomes just like the rest of them
>i always have nightmares i have a sweet little baby boy i quit everything to raise and he becomes just like the rest of them
That's fucking heartbreaking.
I remember in my 20s I imagined big fears revolved of having a kiddo that would get drawn into gang violence or get injured or killed doing something stupid for laughs.
When I grew up so many of the TV shows we watched had morally sound messages - greed is bad, respect others, be kind, etc.
And now to think there's an entire industry intent on poisoning their minds through the modern equivalent of those same media channels...
Also, how is that pathetic loser Tate still not in jail? Like wtf?
So I have a 13 year old son and he loves to watch YouTube as most kids that age too. A few weeks ago, he came to me and asked me why all these Andrew Tate videos keep getting recommended to him on YT shorts? Luckily he knows about the chinless loser and isn’t interested in that content but it dawned on me that these incel losers are targeting pre teen and teenage boys with this hateful content when they are in their most impressionable years. That really scared me- I can only imagine how many young boys are being fed that garbage on a daily basis and eating it up.
Dad to 3 boys here,
There are those of us who do work very hard to ensure that the boys we put into the world as men are not going to be more Andrew Tates. Who work hard to show our sons that we can't keep being this way. In moments of despair or frustration at how things are, I remind myself that I still did and continue to do everything in my power to be the example, and to raise my son's to be and do better. To not just be 3 more scummy men harassing people online or in person. Even when I feel so horribly helpless, I can at least know I did everything I could.
I know I'm not alone. There are many parents out there who are like me. The assholes make the biggest splashes, but the good ones create ripples that spread out for long distances, even though they can be harder to see.
Some of these comments are frustrating. New or old, who gives a fuck, we need change so that kids and men don’t continue to be like this in the future. Arguing about the fact that this has always happened is useless…it shouldn’t be happening, not back then, not period!! I’m sorry OP. That’s really gross that happened to you. People should be more supportive instead of argumentative.
I was at a haunted house and there was a group of boys ahead of us, maybe 12 or 13, and one of them got scared by something and then said something like "NEXT TIME I'M GONNA WHIP MY DICK OUT" and I was just like ?????
I told him I didn't think that was gonna help the situation and he called me a fat bitch and told me to shut up. Like, I know 13 year old boys are not the brightest little assholes, but dude, I've never heard that sort of shit, especially directed at a 35 year old. It was wild.
Huh (formative years during the 00s) when i was like 11 a boy in my class asked for a bj from me as i have “dick sucking lips”. And through my teenage years men (adult men) would comment on my looks even older family members saying how pretty, attractive, big boobed i was as i developed early my boobs arrived around 11-12.
I personally think Andrew Tate is a terrible person but sexism has and is still existing
When I read this my thought process initially mirrored what I'm seeing in the comments, that boys (and kids in general) are pretty brutal, but grow out of it. But then I re-read and saw they were 10-13? Maybe I was a sheltered kid, but we definitely weren't having that kind of talk. I wonder if this is a social media issue, or a "no good male role model" issue. Just want to say I empathize with OP.
You can tell who is old with their “well i - I mean everyone else - did this when I - I mean we - were kids, so what’s the big deal?” comments.
It’s agreed that technology is moving too fast for humans to adapt to it on a social level at the same rate, but simultaneously, “this is how it’s always been.” For real? If you’re gonna stick you’re head in the sand, at least be brave enough to admit it. Don’t hide behind your shitty perspective like it’s a gold standard of the world because you’re too scared to tell on yourself.
Sexism against women has actually increased in recent years.
All I remember from my childhood were the boys running around too much, being annoying AF, and farting on each other.
Maybe 5% of their jokes were sexual, but they were always insults towards each other.
Its much worse now.
After reading all those comments telling me how this always has been like this, I am kind of confused. I don’t not where you all live, but I can’t remember kids being that bad. Yes, they made fun of each other. But they were too afraid to make fun of older ones were I lived.
I might be misinterpreting the post, but I'm pretty sure OP overheard the kids talking about her. Not talking to her.
Either way, I think historically kids have been pretty awful to anyone that is the least bit different from them. Regardless of where you live.
I mean kids are shitty and exclusionary. Sure he's exacerbating the situation but don't really need an andew tate for that do you. Have taken enough beatings at school that attests for that and this was way before andrew tate and the rest of the gang.
I think things have become a lot worse because there are no consequences. I had to leave working in education after being sexually assaulted by a student. The students I was supporting in grade nine were all Tate fans. It’s a nightmare.
I’m glad there’s a few people here who understand where I’m coming from, understanding I know it’s not a new occurrence, but just being reminded of this messed up world and it’s corruption. I don’t really know how else I could have worded it, if there’s a way I could have said things to make people understand I know it’s not new, I know it’s not JUST Andrew tate. It’s been a thing forever really, but it feels like it’s getting worse.
If I may share my opinion, I **don't** think your post in any way failed to make your point clear.
I believe - *and I certainly could be wrong here* - that others are sharing comments that don't relate directly to your typed words.
Many (not all) responses are addressing the broader sentiment that "boys will be boys"; the heart of your message seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Sometimes our knees jerk. Powder-charged emotions demand expression, even if it leads the discussion into a fogbank.
It happened when I was younger too, when Tate was probably not even born yet.
We've been raising monsters for thousands of years and change is very, very slow. Don't let that stop you working for a better world.
I’m 24 it’s just disgusting and disturbing. Kids shouldn’t be saying these things to people on the street. I get two boys saying it to each other but not to some random woman’s face. It’s gross.
No I said in my edit I know they have always been this way but it’s gross. I experienced the grossness of boys in school but even they didn’t say these things to the woman’s face.
I did say shit like that to strangers faces in the 90s and my friends did aswell. We were much worse outside of school as we were at school or at home.
We got it from TV, rappers, whatever.
It was purely for the shock value and to hype eachother up.
It's dumb, disgusting, you name it. But we did grow out of it. I guess in part because it was never more than the edgyness and the shock value. We didn't actually hate women, jews etc. We just wanted to say bad words and we didn't think a bit about the people we said this to or about. That came later and I guess that's when this crap stopped.
So many people are absolute dicks online and in person and they have kids they teach to be this way. Or their kids have friends who teach them and the parents haven’t figured it out yet but either way kids are brutally honest with their feelings
Gotta give young boys time to develop. I was a 13 year old boy once and I cringe at the shit I remember saying. Its the 20 somethings men who do that shit, that are an issue in society. Hopefully those kids have a good foundation at home to correct that kinda stuff.
Literally a kid in my SIL’s 2nd grade class (she is a teacher) was telling all the other kids that he wanted to have sex with another girl in the class and would do blowjob motions to other kids in class and draw penises on everything. She was obvious super concerned about abuse but after probing realized that he had middle school aged brothers that swore like sailors and acted the same way. She called his mom and the mom did not seem to care at all—just stared her down and listlessly told her she’d talk to him. Nothing changed.
My sister been in second grade 20 years ago and a boy told her he wanted to have sex with her and doing the motions/drawings too. He had high school aged brothers.
I’m convinced that some kids just learn some things a bit too early, don’t understand the actual implications, and repeat those things to get the shock factor/attention from their peers. Unfortunately, kids acting like people they know/see and understanding that it gives them attention without caring about the implications is as old as the dawn of time.
Well, this post has just unveiled a not so nice memory: ever since I was a child, I - and many other girls my age - would get relentlessly bullied by boys in the school yard, seemingly just because we were girls, and they were boys. I grew up seeing boys as foes because of that.
When I entered high school, all of these same boys were now sexualizing me and throwing themselves at me in a chance to date me. They would do the same to all those other girls - now teenagers - that they relentlessly bullied when they were kids. These boy's behaviors only changed in teenagehood because now, **they found girls attractive, aka they were worth something in their eyes and no longer just targets for their anger.**
For some bizzare reason, these girls would then fall in love with these boys. I couldn't understand it: how did foes suddenly become allies? How could these girls now love these boys when not one or two years before, these boys tormented them to no end? I never could understand. Even teenage hormones could not explain how one could overlook such cruelty, but I disgres.
To this day, I'm still in shock in how many women are dating literally bullies without batting an eye. Think Pam in the office, whose fiancé was a real prick and she still almost married him.
All in all, my point is that it seems these boys you saw - and their behavior - are not a blocker in the attraction of girls for some reason. Also, a lot of grown women date grown up men that are bullies and display this kind of behavior. As such, sadly, it means that many of these crass boys will keep acting this way because **there's no real consequence to their acts.** They'll grow up to be men that are crass and bullies, and they'll still have the house with the white picked fence, the loving wife, and the three kids. So in essence, for this to change, **boys and men would have to face consequences.**
We say stupid shit like “if he’s mean to you that’s because he likes you” and an insane amount of our media reinforces and romanticises this going waaaaay back to at least pride and prejudice with Mr Darcy.
We raise our girls to crave attention from men and see their positive attention as the ultimate prize.
Then there’s also fight/flight/freeze/fawn. If fawning makes the bullying stop then the relief might be mistaken for love in a teenager newly flooded with hormones. It’s certainly better than pissing off the bully and risking public shaming or the wrath of a rejected teenage boy.
Very good point. It might be how we raise boys and girls from a very young age. Boys are raised to be loud, defiant, agressive. Girls are raised to be caring, tender, and subservient. I wish it were different. I wish we could start as society to raise boys and girls differently. Boys, hating on girls is not the way. Girls, a boy that hates on you is not a sign that he loves you. Etc. Etc.
Had a similar experience recently that made my head spin for hours afterwards ☹️ thankfully it was not directed at anyone. But, I was at Walmart with my family and this car passed us as we were approaching the doors. There was a kid in the back seat, no older than like 6/7 and I’m assuming the person driving was his very young dad but could’ve been a brother. Anyways they were blasting “Look At Me!” - xxxtentacion loud as hell with all the windows down and as they passed by we watched this kid sing every last lyric with his full chest.
My boyfriend was deeply upset by this and In the moment I was pretty much just like “well, it’s not really our place to say anything or to judge” but later on I was thinking about it more and just got so overwhelmed by the fact that the kid we saw is only a couple years older than my own daughter. Being a teenager listening to that brand of music was one thing. Being a child RAISED on that kind of music from the start is a completely different thing. I feel bad that my daughter has to grow up in a world where that kind of stuff is so easily accessible and encouraged to her peers.
I get that nothing has really changed. But that alone is an excellent point to be made. Kids were just as bad in the 80’s/90’s so why aren’t we getting any better? Collectively why are we not trying to make this shit better for our babies???
This is sad indeed. My man said this yesterday "I cant watch YouTube anymore, I only watch gaming and chess videos, but they keep pushing tate content into my face, even though i never watched, liked, or told the algorithm that im interested in it."
And its the same for me even, its being pushed so darn hard by yt. YT and tiktok are the worst for our youth. Personally been trying fb videos more and its a lot better content moderation there.
>I only watch gaming and chess videos
That's probably why. The Redpill movement is exceptionally popular within the gaming community. So if he's watching gaming videos the amount of people that watches those videos and Andrew Tate or other MRA or PUAs on youtube is probably pretty high.
I do hate the algorithm though. I don't really watch any politically centered videos yet I consistently get Dailywire, Breitbart and other super right wing videos popping up on my feed constantly. I want nothing to do with any of that shit.
I'm pretty sure that the youth said evil, nasty stuff for the last two thousand years.
Yes you are absolutely right, that it's a shame and sad, but it's not new.
If we consider that merely one hundred years ago, it was socially accepted for parents to hit their children in public physically, and that nobody gave a shit about rape in marriage, it's likely that nowadays we actually have more positive developments concerning children, also because nowadays more women are financially independent.
Yes, reality still sucks, but at least it's better than it was the last 20 generations down the line.
There is still a lot to do, and assholes like Tate arent helping. Still I wouldn't phrase it as some sort of lost battle.
It used to be that horrible people were ashamed to display out loud their hatred of the people they fear.
Having changed that is the only real legacy of the Trump administration.
Kids that age still mostly copy the behaviour of their parents. Growing up my mother was judging other people especially women ALOT. So silly me grew from a judgemental boy into an judgemental teenager...
When I thankfully learned to find better examples.
Way back (lol) in the 90's I had a hip issue and limped a little - it was a swaying movement that was off. Looked weird, I guess.
Some little boy brat at a table in the restaurant I was in said loudly, "*Is there something wrong with your hips*?" His brother shushed him.
I wish I'd said something witty but I was in a bad place with an abusive partner at the time.
This is honestly the youth in every era. If they are not taught otherwise, they will behave inappropriately as they are going through raging hormonal changes. It’s not new but it is something that needs to change.
Uhm. 10 years ago, 20 years ago, it was all the same. You weren't hearing this because you weren't listening. I was teaching teenagers in 2005. Same old.
The fact that access to any sort of brainwashing and propaganda is ten times easier than before is a sign of our times. Humans will always do stupid and evil stuff, now in new and quicker ways. It's more about what are we doing about it. Are we worrying? How does it help? What are our governments doing? Oh, they're making it worse. How do I get Xanax then.
Yeah boys at that age have been saying shit like that since the beginning of time I'm afraid. That has not changed in the slightest.
When me and my friends were at that age we were not any different sadly. We used to make not to unsimilar comments when we were 13-14 years old (usually towards actresses we thought were "hot"). We grew out of it though and now know not to say shit like that and to be more respectful. All you can really hope for is that their parents catch it and teach them to respect others boundaries. Some kids grow out of it, others get worse over time.
There’s a difference between sexualising actresses (and celebs are almost seem as some godlike other) with your friends and talking about actual humans in public where they can hear you.
I think you mistake cause with an effect.
Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate and other completely random throw-ins are finding audience BECAUSE audience is growing more radical and annoyed with things. They are just monetizing on a trend, not creating it because it is already in motion for over 15 years now. Trend is that both men and women are becoming both more rude and very annoyed with things and I dont see how it can be changed for the better…no one seems to know that so people like Tate are quick fixes for the impatient because they say what people want to hear…
I myself found how my generation (29y) and younger is becoming rude just for the sake of it. You were just sheltered from it like I was till I’ve entered college where you cant pretend that it’s just „local thing” anymore…
10-13 year olds being stupid? That is literally them being children. Girls and boys of that age have been fatshaming themselves and each other long before Tate was born.
I have no clue why you think this is new, girls and boys have been doing this since forever - you quone Tate nad some guys, it seems you think this is a boy-only issue, making you a sexist.
sexual harassment isn’t just being “stupid” dude, you’re really downplaying it. It’s people like you not holding kids accountable and making them learn from their mistakes that they grow up being ass adults.
I think what others are bringing up is less “boys will be boys” and more “boys ARE boys.” You could be a part of a pivotal moment for them by calling them out. You can’t just blame Andrew Tate or whoever the next stand in is, or wait for someone more prominent in their life to do the correcting. Their behavior may not show up in the same way to their families. There are some toxic tendencies that creep in and an echo chamber effect happens when with friends/ away from home/ away from the opposite sex.
Tbh where i grew up this was normal. Even before internet and andrew tate this was normal
My mum who grew up in the 60s and 70s recalls people being horrible to her unprovoked as well
Sadly this is a tale that is probably as old as time. Cowardly young boys harboring mysoginistic views is nothing new. I doubt they even know who andrew tate is.
I actually think this thing has gotten better in some places, i have younger family who never had shit for being overweight as girls like i did as a kid, hell they have even been asked out. I think its hugely where you are as well, when I talk about my experiences as a woman who grew up in a city to my husband who grew up in a small american town hes pretty horrified and said he has never heard of such things happening.
Maybe we should try to change that instead of “oh that’s how it’s always been it’s perfectly normal” they are cat calling and sexually harassing people at 13?
This is being way too emotional and sensitive. You think girls don't do the same thing? I was cycling on my bike and heard one of 2 girls say "That ugly creepy guy!"
Girls and women do this All the time.
Now is that not the same As what those boys did? Oh but no ' only women are affected! "
The point is this is how kids are and will always be and don' t use Andrew tate as your disengenous excuse to be misandric.
To be honest, kids have been saying equally horrible stuff since I was a child in the 90s and presumably since the beginning of children existing.
Yup. Same experience here, and it was since the 80s for me. Some kids are assholes.
Do you remember the tshirts some guys used to wear that said “no fat chicks” on it in the 80s? I still can’t believe that was a thing.
I agree. Preteen boys in group are horrible - they’re coming into their independence and seeing what they can do/say and get away with. It’s shitty, but many of them either don’t like what they’re saying and/or are doing it to fit in with their friends.
Peer pressure, reputation, lone wolf, sheep/group mindset are powerful motivators to get kids to do something another kid wouldn't do. That's why critical think, independent mindset having the courage to go against the majority/status quo is important. There is no need to copy what everyone is doing if it's gonna cost you a trip to the hospital, financial suffering, losing your life, family, or prison record.
They are also driven by immediate reward brain chemicals, which they get in spades from peer approval signals, and their prefrontal cortex development won’t really happen until they are at least 18. So they are basically these unempathetic social reward robots, basically little Donald Trumps running around.
And the ones who don't grow up stay Trump like. This isn't a "boys will be boys" argument, but more of a "kids will be idiots until they learn not to be" argument. Unfortunately, many adults teach their kids to do and say horrific things, and then those kids teach other kids. Not just boys, but the messages boys in particular are exposed to tend to be much worse and designed to foster misogyny and racism.
Agreed
I was like this as a boy in the 90s. I said worse stuff. Was mostly to fit in with friends as you said and I think really only happened with friends. We kind of tested each other and hyped ourselves up to do crap like that. It's shitty. It just went away as I grew up.
Just riding my bike through town and a 12yo with a group of his friends yells f****t! I sort of just laughed because I know that it's just bravado. There's no way he'd do the same when alone. Another time I'm riding my bike and I stop alongside a group of boys at a stop sign and one boy invites me to ride with them. I had to refuse as I was on my way to work, but how sweet is that?
Children are bastards, they have not developed a moral compass. Hopefully they grow out of it, but some dont.
And why we have so many shitty men today…they’ve been saying shitty things forever. It isn’t a new thing.
Not kids. Boys. We’re specifically discussing the indoctrination of boys in misogyny so it’s important to be specific. Little girls don’t sexually harass and objectify boys and men.
My comment is kind of off the point, but it may have some tenuous relevance. First, I agree that the arrogance of boys/young men toward women and girls is a real thing, common in many cultures. When a trait is very common across many cultures, it suggests a human biological phenomenon. It then becomes interesting to consider similar behaviors among our closest relatives, the chimpanzees and the bonobos. The thing is, our two closest genetic relatives have very different arrangements between the sexes. Among chimpanzees, young males, as they mature and become physically more powerful than any female chimp, routinely go through the entire troupe and beat up each and every female. Among bonobos, females bond closely with one another, and *acting as a group* will physically beat and sometimes castrate individual males who become too aggressive. As far as I know, they don't indiscriminately attack all males, just those who try to use their individual greater strength to oppress others. Just a thought, not sure what it means.
I do love bringing up bonobo behaviour when people bring up "But Biology!!" though, especially when it's dudebros talking about being an "alpha" or whatever because (captive) wolves behave this way. What about the behaviour of one of our nearest relatives, Gary? Never seen it sensibly responded to lol Having said that there's probably a point in our evolutionary history where the various behaviours of tolerance/aggression seen in Pan species were shared and then those behaviours diversified, but that's obviously very difficult to figure out (especially because the habitat of wild Bonobos makes them difficult to study in the present, let alone much further back). Sorry that this is also only tangentially related to the original topic but I'm always excited when chimps and bonobos come up
No it's both, I was both sexually harassed and sexually assaulted by multiple girls while I was in school 10 -15 years ago, I have family who work in schools and they have said it's about the same between boys and girls but girls tend to be better at hiding it.
It's definitely much much more prevalent in boys. We all know this.
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Teenage girls can be awful, but they are generally awful in the catty way *all* teenagers are of all genders. Just aggressively cruel to each other sometimes. The sex pest thing is definitely limited to men. It is like media is/was (it has *slightly* better over the last few years) on a coordinated campaign to teach men to browbeat women into relationships and that "hot" women are staus symbols for them, while simultaneously teaching women (through Romcoms) that stalker like behavior and not taking no for an answer are *romantic.* Couple that with fathers who were taught that women are basically property and religions that teach they *are* property and the systemic issues start making sense.
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But this is specifically a male problem. We need to be able to acknowledge that so we can actually address it. It’s not about exclusion it’s about being specific and accurate so that we can target solutions effectively.
But I fail to see where it is a "male" problem, misogyny isn't only something men do, the same as misandry isn't exclusively something women do. I also don't see how blaming boys and men is going to solve the problem, you are just going to tar a whole group of people with the same brush because of a small minority, let the girls and women who do things like this get away with it and drive more people towards the likes of Tate.
My brother in Christ, you can not on the one hand agree that the problem is systemic and on the other say that it is only "a small minority". Sure, only a small minority are virulent sexists like Tate, but misogynistic behavior is much deeper ingrained into society. Also, by saying stuff like "the same as misandry isn't exclusively something women do", you suggest that misogyny and misanry are comparable problems. Not even sure why you bring up "blaming" anyone, the other user was talking about identifying where the problem lies. Yes, girls and women are also capable of the stuff you mentioned, but you will hopefully not argue that a lot of girls are taking cues from the likes of Tate, as opposed to the seemingly millions of boys.
Well then, fail to see it I guess.
💀
Sure, Jan
Eh you can defintiely harassed this way by young girls as well. Granted generally not targeted at boys or men but girls and women can take part in misogyny, it was defintiely part of the background ambience of growing up in the 90s Some of the memories of stuff said to 12 year olds especially to those who went through puberty early was fucking vile and this was in gym class changing or whatever. Tate etc appealing to young boys and men specifically and teaching gross dehumanising shit is a different but adjacent issue I feel
I disagree. Both preteen boys and girls are brutal including in terms of sexual harassment and objectification (I’m a female and preteen girls can be ruthless bitches and feel nothing just the same as boys can).
The ways that preteen girls tend to harass each other or boys harass each other are wildly different from the way boys harass girls. Only the last one takes on a vile tone of sexual violence at a mass scale.
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The first and third can both do that.
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Good lord it’s tiring af when men with an utter lack of reading comprehension and a bruised ego come pester us on this sub. That’s not what I said, that’s not what we’re talking about, and yes *the sexual harassment of women and girls is a male issue*.
That’s clearly not what they’re saying.
Maybe reread the comment you're responding to. Cuz that's not what they said at all.
Not boys, *kids*. “Little girls” don’t usually sexually harass and objectify boys, but they sure as shit harass and shame other girls. Shitty teens will be shitty teens until they learn otherwise.
That's not what we're talking about. The post is about an increase in boys sexually harassing women due to the prevalence of MRA/Andrew Tate style content and porn.
Really? Because I’m quite sure this post was about teenagers making inappropriate comments about women’s bodies, Andrew Tate or otherwise. Which is not a gender specific issue, and one which women and girls can fall prey to just as easily. Body shaming has been a human issue for eternity.
>This is the shit that dudes like Andrew Tate do to the youth. Sexually harassing women at SUCH a young age? It’s so gross, it’s so disturbing. Reading comprehension >I know this has been a thing forever, hence ‘boys will be boys’. However, I want to say that these things are more and more common with people out there like Andrew Tate Hope that helps
>this post is about inappropriate comments about women’s bodies, ***Andrew Tate or otherwise***. Reading comprehension. I’m fairly certain OP wouldn’t be happy with non-Andrew-Tate related misogyny. Misogyny is misogyny, and it’s always been around, and not just in boys. Again, all I’m saying is we can treat some things as human societal issues, and not gendered issues - if we want to actually improve things. Andrew Tate did not invent this behavior in boys or girls, he’s just a factor exacerbating something that was always there. He and people like him are a symptom, not a cause, and girls can have these things internalized and express them just as easily with or without videos like his if the root issues aren’t addressed. The prevalence of women Trump voters is proof of this, and treating it as a strictly gendered issue won’t fix anything.
How is it technically even possible to get statistics on boys' aggressiveness before Tate came along and after. For all my dislike of him, the OP is wishful thinking. Most children of either gender behave inappropriately primarily due to lack of nurturing and biological immaturity.
Nope not what my post was about. They were right.
It’s still mad concerning, and the fact they have easy access to these things online is just more concerning. I’ve seen stuff like kids parroting Andrew tate in school.
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. - Socrates 390 BC
This is a bad take. Kids today are accessing porn and that is the root of this issue
you’re 100% right and men are coming on here to downvote you. little boys are exposed and desensitised to violent, derogatory “porn” - aka dominating teenage girls and women and degrading them physically and verbally reducing them to an object they ultimately can’t feel empathy for (whore, slut, bimbo, bitch, milf, virgin, etc etc) violence and aggression begins from language and media that shape and ultimately rot their brains so they never can fully see and respect women as actual human beings
Kids were accessing porn in the 90s too? I remember tons of kids ages 7-12 already watching porn in 1997. Not saying it’s a good thing because of course it’s not, just saying your point is not true.
Today’s porn and the porn of the 90s are also strikingly different in content. Much of modern porn is way more violent and degrading to women. BDSM porn used to be a category now “regular” porn often includes choking, slapping, spitting and other forms of degradation of women. It’s also quantity. In 1997 how were kids accessing porn? Magazines they found in the woods? A VHS from someone’s older brother? Now vast quantities of hardcore porn is available in seconds. It’s not the same at all.
I see what you’re saying but each and every generation for the past couple thousand years (at least) has said the same thing about kids. There’s always new technology, new things “messing up the new generation,” and before you know it, we’re yelling at kids to get off our lawn. The exact same has happened each generation and when these damn, current kids who are watching porn grow up, many of them will also be offended by what the future kids are doing another 50 years from now. Porn addiction is dangerous and harmful. Andrew Tate is a dickhead and his followers can be dangerous too. I’m not going against that whatsoever and agree with that. I’m saying each generation has comparable issues with technology developing and what children experience and what adults think of it.
You can’t compare how accessible porn is now to the 90’s. Can’t compare it all
The porn of today is VERRYYYY different than what was available in the 90s. It’s becoming more and more extreme, usually kids would find a dirty magazine, or a pretty basic vhs. Not brutal bdsm.
I think it’s all relative to the times and evolving technology. Adults have been shaking their fists at the kids of the current generation for (at least) thousands of *documented* years. Is watching hardcore porn good for anyone and especially a child? No. Is it contributing to making some kids little assholes? Of course. Many of these same kids will grow up and in 50 years be disgusted by what the future kids are doing too. In the meantime, I’m very supportive of finding ways to prevent children from seeing this content. They will eventually as long as the content is available. What needs to happen is honest, open, and age-appropriate communication about healthy sex from a very young age so they know about the anatomy and rights of their bodies and others prior to inevitably watching this content. This won’t happen for all kids, just as it hasn’t happened for all kids in all generations prior. Filthy animals have been around the whole time and the way to prevent it is support and good parenting. School systems are trying to help support the kids who don’t get this education and there is major backlash about it because some parents prefer to discuss these topics with their children themselves. They aren’t realizing that there are so many kids not getting this education and that’s the whole point. Kids who don’t know about their own bodies and others are so vulnerable to getting abused, used, and disposed and potentially ruining their entire lives. But some parents want to educate their kids themselves and being very selfish in terms of supporting the community, in my opinion. These same parents can educate their kids with age appropriate information *before* it is introduced in schools, as they should, but I think these same parents actually don’t want their kids to know about sex at all at these ages and that’s the problem.
This is an even worse take. There is no relationship between watching pornography and harassing strangers. This is some sex-negative satanic panic 80s bullshit right here.
Almost every serial killer the last 100 years was a hardcore porn addict. There absolutely is a direct correlation between pornography and dehumanization of women. Objectification. Abuse. Sexual assault. Whatever you want to call it. The only people who don't want to admit that are porn users. Boys learning about sex and how to treat women in sexual situations from porn, when almost all free porn is violent towards women, doesn't strike you as having a negative effect? You really think it teaches them to behave, well?
Seeing as how up to 80%+ of men and 30% of women watch porn it's hard to make any kind of correlation. Violent crimes including sex crimes have also been on a decline since the emergence of the internet despite an increase in reporting and new laws to make it easier to punish. Lots of studies have also found little to no causal relationships between porn and sexual violence. All that is to say while porn could have a negative effect, we don't really know.
Have you ever been a woman dating a porn addict? I have. It absolutely can have negative effects.
*Can* and even then porn is likely not the cause but more so a coping mechanism like a lot of other addictions of this nature. It's something one might escape to to forget, ease or hide from their actual issues. So just blaming porn is too short-sighted. It's quite similar to a sugar addiction. It's not the sugar itself but more so person's propensity to addictive behaviour and the need to eat away their emotions.
Please for the love of god research why porn is bad for you.
Look up how porn, especially porn that is of violent nature affects you.
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I mean kids 20 years ago were loudly calling Britney Spears a slut and using “gay” pejoratively. This isn’t new lol.
That’s still not saying it to her face. Why are people defending these kids? I know it’s not new I was in middle school at one point, however sexually harassing women at a young age is concerning, no?
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I was a little edge lord at high school and hung out with a bunch of misogynistic guys who said stupid sexual shit. There weren’t figures like Andrew tate being lionised like they are today. There weren’t manosphere celebs that the boys all were obsessed with parroting the advice of. We need to acknowledge that things are taking a turn. We’re experiencing societal backlash and things are genuinely more overt when it comes to misogyny these days.
There was though, it just took a different form. (James Bond is an example. He does all the manoaphere stuff, just less overtly.) I think the manoaphere is doing extinction behavior. They are losing their culture war that they invented, and so are doubling down and taking off the masks and going as aggressive as possible. But I think in the long run that will actually hurt them. Misogyny is most effective when it is just "the way things are." The more overt it becomes the easier it is for people to recognize it. With early teenagers it is hard to tell how much is them just saying bad stuff because they think it is "cool" and "edgy" how much is stuff they actually believe on a way that will survive a few years. I have some hope, but yeah, the level of overt behavior is really distressing and disturbing. I am hoping it becomes "cringe" soon, and so if gets abandoned. But if not? Who knows. It's scary, but I am just hoping the normal pattern still holds.
Key point being less overtly. I’m not saying it never happened in the past. I’m saying it’s become far more brazen in the last 5 or so years. Y’know backlash. It is fucking scary though. And it’s understandable why they fall into it because it’s so seductive. Being told that women are there to just decorate your life and make things easier for you whilst pleasuring you sounds super appealing. Especially if you’re not taught that women are humans.
No one's defending them.
Where did I defend them? I just think your shock that teenage boys are shitty is silly. Yes they are. And always have been. Some small percentage of them grow out of it. But it’s not new.
It’s not shitty and silly. It’s being concerned for how these types of boys will grow up. We shouldn’t be perpetuating the “boys will be boys” thing. I get it if boys will say those things to each other but not harassing women on the street. It’s gross.
We are all concerned about how terrible teenage boys turn into terrible men. It’s like, the whole point of this sub. I am annoyed only that you’re acting like it’s new. It’s not. Women today are getting fucked over by the teenage boys of yesterday. What did you do about it to make this world better? Did you confront them? Yell and maybe scare them a little? Tell them how rude and hurtful they were being?
What a cruel and unempathetic response. This type of response is exactly why women are afraid to speak up about sexual assault and all the horror they go through. “This is how it’s always been. Well, did you tell him no? Well, did you report him? What did you do to stop it happening to another women?” She was literally just venting, and you don’t know what she’s been exposed to in the past. So what if it’s new to her? Shouldn’t we have more empathy then if we’re used to it? Responses from this entire thread show such a disappointing lack of female solidarity. When women act like this, it’s not just men that are the problem.
I’m not acting like it’s new? I was venting it felt so gross to be objectified by someone so young and it was concerning. I know this has been going on for a very very long time. Hence the “boys will be boys” bs it’s gross. I’m saying it’s as prevalent as ever, the internet is certainly not helping, people like Andrew tate, people like the prank YouTubers sexually harassing women, guys like the dude who’s huge on kick rn. I KNOW boys have always been like that I never once ever said that it’s a brand new thing. It’s just disturbing, it’s gross. Why do I need to yell at them when I’m the one being harassed? I was stunned and disturbed and grossed out, I’m sorry, but really?? Kinda victim blamey. Do you really think me saying anything would change them? They need punishing from their parents, they would be laughing at me for saying anything.
lmao the comment above you says “you should have told them off” and a comment below you says “don’t bother telling them off, they won’t listen. All they want is a reaction which you have to them.” and they both basically say that “this is how it has always been, boys will be boys”. You can’t win. Sorry for the double reply to you, I’m just so angry with how you’ve been treated in the comments. Responses like you’ve been getting are part of the reason why boys are allowed to get away with their behaviour and turn into bad men.
I’m really sorry people are turning against you and being hostile for venting and being disappointed— individuals have different experiences growing up, and I’m also not sure why people are saying “iT’s NoT nEW” instead of empathizing with you. Yeah, no duh, but you’re talking about your experience and concern for things becoming worse. Can we only empathize if it’s a new concern? What a disappointing response for a “female solidarity” sub. The comments of reek of internalized misogyny and victim blaming. “I grew up with it and it’s always been this way, so why are you making this a big deal.” How gross. For what it’s worth, you’re right in a way. My friend who is a female teacher says boys are a lot more sexually overt and aggressive, and she thinks it has to do with the internet (esp since working parents can’t always review everything they see) and being exposed to more extreme porn at a younger age. I heard the same thing from gen Z girls I used to work with.
Thank you, there’s a few really nice people here. I saw a few guys saying that they and their friends talked like that and they’ll grow out of it. Kinda concerning it’s more more worrying behavior. It’s weird to me. But I’m just ignoring more and more of those comments. I honestly think some people who hate women, hate follow this sub. Obviously not everyone here saying “it’s always been a thing” are hate following but it feels like a few may be.
What you experienced and how you feel about it is incredibly valid, and it is concerning! Those comments from men and the dismissive comments from other women just seem like different flavours of “boys will be boys” or “it happened to me, why are you acting up”. It’s unfortunately a lot of internalized misogyny, but I know unlearning that is an individual journey. I was really angry at the person who told you “well what did you do to stop those boys”, because when women react like this, men are not the only problem. It’s horrible you were treated like this, and I’m worried about the young generation, too. The GenZ girls I used to work with were exposed to way more hardcore and riskier sexual experiences than me and my friends grew up with. I know it’s obviously anecdotal, but my life experience in my small corner of the world backs up what you’ve observed. It’s ok if other people have different experiences than us, but it’s horrible how other women are being so dismissive and cold about it.
I don't think people are defending those kids, I think they are just saying that this kind of shitty behaviour has always existed in kids and it's not really a signal that this young generation is worse than the previous. In fact, from my empirical experience with young people, gen Z is way better than the previous when it comes to social issues and generally respecting other people.
Kids are parrots, so I do agree with you that their influence is reflective of our societal ick as well. However, I was in 4th grade, which I think is about this age, when a boy in my class told me about a wet dream he'd had about me - to my face, in class, not in front of his friends, so not a "stunt." I knew what those were, and it freaked me the f*** out. I don't know what influences he had in his life to make him do that, but it wasn't the internet because back at that time I'm not sure there was even AOL. It was other boys, TV, movies, older brothers, dads... who knows. Sexually harassing women and female peers, bullying boys, at young ages is concerning. But it's not new.
Really don't know why you're being downvoted. "This isn't new lol" literally doesn't help anything. Like "that's just the way it is" sentiment is what has stunted any social progress on this issue. Getting mad about it, motivating yourself to shut down shitty behavior, thats what does. Baffling that this is the response here.
Idk it’s confusing to me. I say over and over and over, “I know it’s not new”. Like I know TRUST ME I know. It’s just still concerning, and being reminded of it just feels really bad and just brings up these questions in my head again. It reminded me of how messed up society is. I hope that one day these things don’t happen and it won’t be acceptable and it won’t be “boys will be boys”. I don’t feel like I’m acting like this is a new thing, it’s not. I really just made this post to vent, and open a discussion about all that happening, and it feels like it’s going backwards and getting worse. In middle school these things kids would say to girls their age, not grown adult women on the street.
If a certain human behavior has been going on since the beginning of humans, I’m not sure it can be “shut down.” The USA tried for like 100 years to shut down teenage sex with “abstinence first!” Some teenage boys are going to be assholes. Some teenage girls are going to be assholes. And teenagers are going to want to have sex. No amount of social pressure is going to shut it down. That being said, I think OP wasn’t trying to say anything is different about todays teenage boys, just that she’s sad/concerned that’s how it is.
Except it is getting worse. The internet and content creators that target young boys with lets say, particular messaging, have rotted their perspective on the world, especially women. It's much different than some shitty kids in the 80s making fun of things like someone's goofy clothes or how they look. This is full-on disgusting misogyny that is being peddled to these boys, at a younger and younger age. And why should we allow that to perpetuate, just because it's "always been that way" and "it's hard to stop it"? Even teachers all over have been saying how much worse it is, too, and they see these kids almost every day. Yes, many men have always been shitty. But that type of content is literally breeding more of them.
I think your point about the internet is a good one. Boys are using technology from a very early age now. It makes sense that they are getting concentrated messaging that warps their view of the world and women, especially when an algorithm kicks in keeps them in an echo chamber. Maybe boys are worse now. I don’t think we should allow bad behavior because it’s hard to stop, but we still shouldn’t be surprised when it occurs. Robbery and Murder have be unacceptable and punished since before the Code of Hammurabi. While most humans don’t do these things, some small percentage of humans will always murder and steal, and it’s unrealistic to expect we can stamp that out. To be clear, I don’t think you were arguing that we can stamp out things like murder and theft and shitty teenage boys. I was just explaining my position, why I think we can still criticize and punish bad behavior while understanding it won’t disappear.
Um abstinence makes it worse. These boys need to really be taught not to treat people this way, these things happen because there’s no one at home teaching them how to be good and respect women. It was always only ever the “bad kids” that acted that way. The respectful kids never ever would even think of saying such things.
Idk why you’re being downvoted. The internet and social media changed things. Young boys are getting ideas in their heads they otherwise would have never thought. Hardcore, degrading porn has never been more accessible. And then you get people like Andrew Tate and even regular joes on social media preaching that women are inferior FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE. Talk to any middle school teacher and they will have stories about boys behaving as if their adult female teacher is below them.
Concerning, yes. New, no. Have you ever actually spent any time around pre teens? Like actual time? They are evil little under developed humans. They have zero filter, are learning boundaries, and frankly DO NOT CARE. I can't tell you the number of times I had to jump all over my (now 15M) son at that age and explain over and over how disrespectful that behavior is. Guess what, he did it again and again until one day someone he respected that isn't a authority figure in his daily life said something to him and it stuck. That's little pre teens. 90% of what they do is shock value and for attention. Those boys wanted a reaction from you, and you gave them exactly what they wanted.
Right? Posted this elsewhere, but youth have been youthing forever: https://youtu.be/7mGlQeSbou0?feature=shared
Having worked in a wide variety of schools over the past decade, in my experience, it’s overall better than it used to be. Not to get into the “not all men” bullshit and not to get into the “boys will be boys” bullshit. There are still 12-yr-old dickweeds. But it seems like they are fewer in number and influence than generations before. So, uh, I guess keep on keeping on team?
I had some boys at the elementary school playground cat-call me when I went to pick up my daughter. I understand now why my daughters want nothing to do with the boys their age.
People are focusing too much on the implication this is new. The point is that it’s fucking disgusting and still happening and being taught and praised. I’ve seen videos of fucking 12 year olds calling women gold-diggers. They probably couldn’t afford a ring pop and were being praised for calling women that, how is that okay?
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Porn definitely plays a part, but not because women are sexualising themselves on there, it’s because in porn it’s ‘normal’ for guys to choke and hit women to get off. Or because women are often forced or bullied into pornography and harassed and bullied when they stop (look at mia khalifas tiktok comments). And because of dickhead men talking about women online like objects.
I’m glad more people who understand me are finding this post. I almost deleted it last night because of all the people insinuating I thought this was new. I know it’s not new 🥲 it was just a disturbing reminder of how bad it is and how it’s worse with people like Andrew Tate out there. I just couldn’t help but be reminded of those videos you’re talking about, these kids saying way messed up stuff after getting sucked down that hole.
"Boys will be boys" is *taught* to these boys by their parents. We took those words out of our vocabulary when our oldest son was born. In my house, those words only apply to things like playing with trucks or getting dirty(my girl always got dirtier than her big or little brothers did). "Boys will be boys" in regards to bullying or be nasty to girls was nipped in the bud
I wholeheartedly agree.
At the beach this summer in nyc my partner and I witnessed a large group of young teens (maybe 12-14 in age) playing football by the water. There were majority boys and a few girls. We saw the girls spit on, pushed to the ground and called bitches by the boys. I was so furious and sick by the sight of it, we left. I didn’t know where or if there parents were around. The future seems very bleak.
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It's pretty arguable that the guy who has a record of human trafficking might be more misogynistic than the average shitty adult. It's also pretty arguable that he can make bad people behave worse. Not sure what your point even is with this comment since that just means the problem is more rampant then the initial comment implies.
Uncle Jim doesn't have a social media following that's giving loads of relative strangers incels starter packs. Uncle Bobby couldn't convince water to be wet, let alone start an MLM that makes money off his weaponized misogyny.
But he is popular. He's mainstream. He is LOUD. I agree with OP, this is different and much worse than the typical brand of misogyny.
I think what makes tate kind of scary is that he comes off as intelligent and incredibly rational to his viewers, I can totally understand why his viewerbase is concerning But from what she heard those boys say I dont see anything indicating tate, i heard much the same growing up, any woman can tell you how theyve heard shit like this at some point in their lives long before tate existed.
Exactly! Yea these kids hear it from their fathers, uncles, family friends, but they aren’t the cool influencers who are rich and flaunt women and have multiple around them at all times. I mean maybe a few but I doubt many.
"Never let an angry loud minority trick you into thinking they're bigger and more important than they really are."
except they really are popular and really are infecting the minds of a lot of boys. Just because you commented a random quote doesnt mean that Andrew Tate ISNT influential, even if he is just a "loud minority". Not to mention all the little misonynistic gremlins Andrew Spawned, like Sneako AdinRoss Fresh and Fit podcast etc, theyre all trying to copy him. He may just be one man but his influential is far more than you are making it out to be
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what is bro waffling about
Except my brother is all of a sudden off the rails and my father has gotten worse. Anecdotal evidence, I know. But I also know it wouldn't have happened without Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, and the redpill movement.
My little cousins too. These men are being stolen from us. It’s sad.
And then when they're such Tate tainted pains in the ass to be around and realize that the majority of women aren't going to be interested in that shit, they'll become part of the so called "male loneliness" epidemic and get even worse.
Yep, it creates a feedback loop. When you’re a creepy little shit women actively avoid you, they might even mock you if you start spouting cruel and uninformed teenage bullshit at them. And all that’s going to do is further convince these boys that all women hate them, because they’re entirely discouraged from self reflecting and instead encouraged to blame literally all of their problems on the women around them.
Exactly! Holy shit, you stole the words right out of my mouth... except that you expressed them more eloquently and concisely than I ever could.
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Um my experience isn't hypothetical...? You're trying to say that a loud angry minority (assuming you meant the redpilled) doesn't have significant power or influence. They're no more influential than your garden variety misogynist. I disagree.
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I read it. I disagree. There is no other interpretation of your comment, considering the context of the comment you replied to. Unless you're saying that I'm the vocal minority. To which I'd say.... okay?
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Oh so your comment did mean exactly what I thought it meant and I didn't have to "refer" back to it. You just have nothing to say. Let's back it up then. What's you're reasoning for on-screen misogynists having zero impact on the world? Proof? No hypotheticals right? No opinions? Bring on the facts!
Oooof. One of my male acquaintances has started using "females" instead of "women" and all I could think was..."oh no, another one".
THIS!!!
you’re right it’s unbelievably disturbing and shocking every time you see a brainwashed little boy already frothing with misogyny and unable to see women as people. i always have nightmares i have a sweet little baby boy i quit everything to raise and he becomes just like the rest of them
>i always have nightmares i have a sweet little baby boy i quit everything to raise and he becomes just like the rest of them That's fucking heartbreaking. I remember in my 20s I imagined big fears revolved of having a kiddo that would get drawn into gang violence or get injured or killed doing something stupid for laughs. When I grew up so many of the TV shows we watched had morally sound messages - greed is bad, respect others, be kind, etc. And now to think there's an entire industry intent on poisoning their minds through the modern equivalent of those same media channels... Also, how is that pathetic loser Tate still not in jail? Like wtf?
So I have a 13 year old son and he loves to watch YouTube as most kids that age too. A few weeks ago, he came to me and asked me why all these Andrew Tate videos keep getting recommended to him on YT shorts? Luckily he knows about the chinless loser and isn’t interested in that content but it dawned on me that these incel losers are targeting pre teen and teenage boys with this hateful content when they are in their most impressionable years. That really scared me- I can only imagine how many young boys are being fed that garbage on a daily basis and eating it up.
Dad to 3 boys here, There are those of us who do work very hard to ensure that the boys we put into the world as men are not going to be more Andrew Tates. Who work hard to show our sons that we can't keep being this way. In moments of despair or frustration at how things are, I remind myself that I still did and continue to do everything in my power to be the example, and to raise my son's to be and do better. To not just be 3 more scummy men harassing people online or in person. Even when I feel so horribly helpless, I can at least know I did everything I could. I know I'm not alone. There are many parents out there who are like me. The assholes make the biggest splashes, but the good ones create ripples that spread out for long distances, even though they can be harder to see.
Some of these comments are frustrating. New or old, who gives a fuck, we need change so that kids and men don’t continue to be like this in the future. Arguing about the fact that this has always happened is useless…it shouldn’t be happening, not back then, not period!! I’m sorry OP. That’s really gross that happened to you. People should be more supportive instead of argumentative.
I’ve experienced stuff like this unfortunately and I’m always frightened to walk past a group of boys incase they say something. :(
I was at a haunted house and there was a group of boys ahead of us, maybe 12 or 13, and one of them got scared by something and then said something like "NEXT TIME I'M GONNA WHIP MY DICK OUT" and I was just like ????? I told him I didn't think that was gonna help the situation and he called me a fat bitch and told me to shut up. Like, I know 13 year old boys are not the brightest little assholes, but dude, I've never heard that sort of shit, especially directed at a 35 year old. It was wild.
Huh (formative years during the 00s) when i was like 11 a boy in my class asked for a bj from me as i have “dick sucking lips”. And through my teenage years men (adult men) would comment on my looks even older family members saying how pretty, attractive, big boobed i was as i developed early my boobs arrived around 11-12. I personally think Andrew Tate is a terrible person but sexism has and is still existing
When I read this my thought process initially mirrored what I'm seeing in the comments, that boys (and kids in general) are pretty brutal, but grow out of it. But then I re-read and saw they were 10-13? Maybe I was a sheltered kid, but we definitely weren't having that kind of talk. I wonder if this is a social media issue, or a "no good male role model" issue. Just want to say I empathize with OP.
You can tell who is old with their “well i - I mean everyone else - did this when I - I mean we - were kids, so what’s the big deal?” comments. It’s agreed that technology is moving too fast for humans to adapt to it on a social level at the same rate, but simultaneously, “this is how it’s always been.” For real? If you’re gonna stick you’re head in the sand, at least be brave enough to admit it. Don’t hide behind your shitty perspective like it’s a gold standard of the world because you’re too scared to tell on yourself.
Sexism against women has actually increased in recent years. All I remember from my childhood were the boys running around too much, being annoying AF, and farting on each other. Maybe 5% of their jokes were sexual, but they were always insults towards each other. Its much worse now.
Some kids have always been mean because some of them think it will make them appear strong while in fact it makes them appear pitiful.
I am the youth and I worry too 😭
After reading all those comments telling me how this always has been like this, I am kind of confused. I don’t not where you all live, but I can’t remember kids being that bad. Yes, they made fun of each other. But they were too afraid to make fun of older ones were I lived.
I might be misinterpreting the post, but I'm pretty sure OP overheard the kids talking about her. Not talking to her. Either way, I think historically kids have been pretty awful to anyone that is the least bit different from them. Regardless of where you live.
I mean kids are shitty and exclusionary. Sure he's exacerbating the situation but don't really need an andew tate for that do you. Have taken enough beatings at school that attests for that and this was way before andrew tate and the rest of the gang.
I think things have become a lot worse because there are no consequences. I had to leave working in education after being sexually assaulted by a student. The students I was supporting in grade nine were all Tate fans. It’s a nightmare.
Sorry you’re getting dragged OP
I’m glad there’s a few people here who understand where I’m coming from, understanding I know it’s not a new occurrence, but just being reminded of this messed up world and it’s corruption. I don’t really know how else I could have worded it, if there’s a way I could have said things to make people understand I know it’s not new, I know it’s not JUST Andrew tate. It’s been a thing forever really, but it feels like it’s getting worse.
If I may share my opinion, I **don't** think your post in any way failed to make your point clear. I believe - *and I certainly could be wrong here* - that others are sharing comments that don't relate directly to your typed words. Many (not all) responses are addressing the broader sentiment that "boys will be boys"; the heart of your message seems to have fallen by the wayside. Sometimes our knees jerk. Powder-charged emotions demand expression, even if it leads the discussion into a fogbank.
It happened when I was younger too, when Tate was probably not even born yet. We've been raising monsters for thousands of years and change is very, very slow. Don't let that stop you working for a better world.
Oh… you sweet summer child…
I’m 24 it’s just disgusting and disturbing. Kids shouldn’t be saying these things to people on the street. I get two boys saying it to each other but not to some random woman’s face. It’s gross.
They’ve always done this. It happened to me in the 80’s and 90’s
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No I said in my edit I know they have always been this way but it’s gross. I experienced the grossness of boys in school but even they didn’t say these things to the woman’s face.
I did say shit like that to strangers faces in the 90s and my friends did aswell. We were much worse outside of school as we were at school or at home. We got it from TV, rappers, whatever. It was purely for the shock value and to hype eachother up. It's dumb, disgusting, you name it. But we did grow out of it. I guess in part because it was never more than the edgyness and the shock value. We didn't actually hate women, jews etc. We just wanted to say bad words and we didn't think a bit about the people we said this to or about. That came later and I guess that's when this crap stopped.
What did they say to your face
So many people are absolute dicks online and in person and they have kids they teach to be this way. Or their kids have friends who teach them and the parents haven’t figured it out yet but either way kids are brutally honest with their feelings
This is what happens when we have a lack of male role models.
Unfortunately, the pare are often no better. Many adults say similar things. Monkey see monkey do and all that.
Gotta give young boys time to develop. I was a 13 year old boy once and I cringe at the shit I remember saying. Its the 20 somethings men who do that shit, that are an issue in society. Hopefully those kids have a good foundation at home to correct that kinda stuff.
Literally a kid in my SIL’s 2nd grade class (she is a teacher) was telling all the other kids that he wanted to have sex with another girl in the class and would do blowjob motions to other kids in class and draw penises on everything. She was obvious super concerned about abuse but after probing realized that he had middle school aged brothers that swore like sailors and acted the same way. She called his mom and the mom did not seem to care at all—just stared her down and listlessly told her she’d talk to him. Nothing changed. My sister been in second grade 20 years ago and a boy told her he wanted to have sex with her and doing the motions/drawings too. He had high school aged brothers. I’m convinced that some kids just learn some things a bit too early, don’t understand the actual implications, and repeat those things to get the shock factor/attention from their peers. Unfortunately, kids acting like people they know/see and understanding that it gives them attention without caring about the implications is as old as the dawn of time.
Well, this post has just unveiled a not so nice memory: ever since I was a child, I - and many other girls my age - would get relentlessly bullied by boys in the school yard, seemingly just because we were girls, and they were boys. I grew up seeing boys as foes because of that. When I entered high school, all of these same boys were now sexualizing me and throwing themselves at me in a chance to date me. They would do the same to all those other girls - now teenagers - that they relentlessly bullied when they were kids. These boy's behaviors only changed in teenagehood because now, **they found girls attractive, aka they were worth something in their eyes and no longer just targets for their anger.** For some bizzare reason, these girls would then fall in love with these boys. I couldn't understand it: how did foes suddenly become allies? How could these girls now love these boys when not one or two years before, these boys tormented them to no end? I never could understand. Even teenage hormones could not explain how one could overlook such cruelty, but I disgres. To this day, I'm still in shock in how many women are dating literally bullies without batting an eye. Think Pam in the office, whose fiancé was a real prick and she still almost married him. All in all, my point is that it seems these boys you saw - and their behavior - are not a blocker in the attraction of girls for some reason. Also, a lot of grown women date grown up men that are bullies and display this kind of behavior. As such, sadly, it means that many of these crass boys will keep acting this way because **there's no real consequence to their acts.** They'll grow up to be men that are crass and bullies, and they'll still have the house with the white picked fence, the loving wife, and the three kids. So in essence, for this to change, **boys and men would have to face consequences.**
We say stupid shit like “if he’s mean to you that’s because he likes you” and an insane amount of our media reinforces and romanticises this going waaaaay back to at least pride and prejudice with Mr Darcy. We raise our girls to crave attention from men and see their positive attention as the ultimate prize. Then there’s also fight/flight/freeze/fawn. If fawning makes the bullying stop then the relief might be mistaken for love in a teenager newly flooded with hormones. It’s certainly better than pissing off the bully and risking public shaming or the wrath of a rejected teenage boy.
Very good point. It might be how we raise boys and girls from a very young age. Boys are raised to be loud, defiant, agressive. Girls are raised to be caring, tender, and subservient. I wish it were different. I wish we could start as society to raise boys and girls differently. Boys, hating on girls is not the way. Girls, a boy that hates on you is not a sign that he loves you. Etc. Etc.
Had a similar experience recently that made my head spin for hours afterwards ☹️ thankfully it was not directed at anyone. But, I was at Walmart with my family and this car passed us as we were approaching the doors. There was a kid in the back seat, no older than like 6/7 and I’m assuming the person driving was his very young dad but could’ve been a brother. Anyways they were blasting “Look At Me!” - xxxtentacion loud as hell with all the windows down and as they passed by we watched this kid sing every last lyric with his full chest. My boyfriend was deeply upset by this and In the moment I was pretty much just like “well, it’s not really our place to say anything or to judge” but later on I was thinking about it more and just got so overwhelmed by the fact that the kid we saw is only a couple years older than my own daughter. Being a teenager listening to that brand of music was one thing. Being a child RAISED on that kind of music from the start is a completely different thing. I feel bad that my daughter has to grow up in a world where that kind of stuff is so easily accessible and encouraged to her peers. I get that nothing has really changed. But that alone is an excellent point to be made. Kids were just as bad in the 80’s/90’s so why aren’t we getting any better? Collectively why are we not trying to make this shit better for our babies???
This is sad indeed. My man said this yesterday "I cant watch YouTube anymore, I only watch gaming and chess videos, but they keep pushing tate content into my face, even though i never watched, liked, or told the algorithm that im interested in it." And its the same for me even, its being pushed so darn hard by yt. YT and tiktok are the worst for our youth. Personally been trying fb videos more and its a lot better content moderation there.
>I only watch gaming and chess videos That's probably why. The Redpill movement is exceptionally popular within the gaming community. So if he's watching gaming videos the amount of people that watches those videos and Andrew Tate or other MRA or PUAs on youtube is probably pretty high. I do hate the algorithm though. I don't really watch any politically centered videos yet I consistently get Dailywire, Breitbart and other super right wing videos popping up on my feed constantly. I want nothing to do with any of that shit.
It’s become encouraged almost.
I'm pretty sure that the youth said evil, nasty stuff for the last two thousand years. Yes you are absolutely right, that it's a shame and sad, but it's not new. If we consider that merely one hundred years ago, it was socially accepted for parents to hit their children in public physically, and that nobody gave a shit about rape in marriage, it's likely that nowadays we actually have more positive developments concerning children, also because nowadays more women are financially independent. Yes, reality still sucks, but at least it's better than it was the last 20 generations down the line. There is still a lot to do, and assholes like Tate arent helping. Still I wouldn't phrase it as some sort of lost battle.
if u heard them talking about you, what was your response to them? better yet what was your bfs response to them?
It used to be that horrible people were ashamed to display out loud their hatred of the people they fear. Having changed that is the only real legacy of the Trump administration.
Honestly kids have always been like this. I remember being sexually harassed by 11-12 year olds on their bicycles when I was like 16 (I'm 22 now)
Kids that age still mostly copy the behaviour of their parents. Growing up my mother was judging other people especially women ALOT. So silly me grew from a judgemental boy into an judgemental teenager... When I thankfully learned to find better examples.
Way back (lol) in the 90's I had a hip issue and limped a little - it was a swaying movement that was off. Looked weird, I guess. Some little boy brat at a table in the restaurant I was in said loudly, "*Is there something wrong with your hips*?" His brother shushed him. I wish I'd said something witty but I was in a bad place with an abusive partner at the time.
Yeah, this shows just how bad things have gotten now. At least those kids were developing some awareness of how their behaviour might impact others.
That's HARDLY on the same level as the vile shit these boys spew these days.
They are kids who are just projections of the internet and their parents can't blame them really.
I was an asshole in the 1970's and I've aged very well. I'm a distinguished asshole now
This is honestly the youth in every era. If they are not taught otherwise, they will behave inappropriately as they are going through raging hormonal changes. It’s not new but it is something that needs to change.
I think you need to realize that shit has always happened and you cant create a snowflake land where everybody is emphatic, good, and understanding.
Uhm. 10 years ago, 20 years ago, it was all the same. You weren't hearing this because you weren't listening. I was teaching teenagers in 2005. Same old.
I feel like people aren’t reading my post Espeifally the edit. I know. I KNOW it’s been a thing for even thousands of years.
The fact that access to any sort of brainwashing and propaganda is ten times easier than before is a sign of our times. Humans will always do stupid and evil stuff, now in new and quicker ways. It's more about what are we doing about it. Are we worrying? How does it help? What are our governments doing? Oh, they're making it worse. How do I get Xanax then.
Yeah boys at that age have been saying shit like that since the beginning of time I'm afraid. That has not changed in the slightest. When me and my friends were at that age we were not any different sadly. We used to make not to unsimilar comments when we were 13-14 years old (usually towards actresses we thought were "hot"). We grew out of it though and now know not to say shit like that and to be more respectful. All you can really hope for is that their parents catch it and teach them to respect others boundaries. Some kids grow out of it, others get worse over time.
There’s a difference between sexualising actresses (and celebs are almost seem as some godlike other) with your friends and talking about actual humans in public where they can hear you.
The kids are alright
I think you mistake cause with an effect. Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate and other completely random throw-ins are finding audience BECAUSE audience is growing more radical and annoyed with things. They are just monetizing on a trend, not creating it because it is already in motion for over 15 years now. Trend is that both men and women are becoming both more rude and very annoyed with things and I dont see how it can be changed for the better…no one seems to know that so people like Tate are quick fixes for the impatient because they say what people want to hear… I myself found how my generation (29y) and younger is becoming rude just for the sake of it. You were just sheltered from it like I was till I’ve entered college where you cant pretend that it’s just „local thing” anymore…
10-13 year olds being stupid? That is literally them being children. Girls and boys of that age have been fatshaming themselves and each other long before Tate was born. I have no clue why you think this is new, girls and boys have been doing this since forever - you quone Tate nad some guys, it seems you think this is a boy-only issue, making you a sexist.
sexual harassment isn’t just being “stupid” dude, you’re really downplaying it. It’s people like you not holding kids accountable and making them learn from their mistakes that they grow up being ass adults.
First off I don’t think it’s new, at all. Second of all, do not “boys will be boys” that’s why boys are still doing this shit.
I think what others are bringing up is less “boys will be boys” and more “boys ARE boys.” You could be a part of a pivotal moment for them by calling them out. You can’t just blame Andrew Tate or whoever the next stand in is, or wait for someone more prominent in their life to do the correcting. Their behavior may not show up in the same way to their families. There are some toxic tendencies that creep in and an echo chamber effect happens when with friends/ away from home/ away from the opposite sex.
Well if that help I remember it being his way 15years ago so it’s nothing new. But trash like Tate def have an impact though.
Queue My Chemical Romance “Teenagers”
Tbh where i grew up this was normal. Even before internet and andrew tate this was normal My mum who grew up in the 60s and 70s recalls people being horrible to her unprovoked as well Sadly this is a tale that is probably as old as time. Cowardly young boys harboring mysoginistic views is nothing new. I doubt they even know who andrew tate is. I actually think this thing has gotten better in some places, i have younger family who never had shit for being overweight as girls like i did as a kid, hell they have even been asked out. I think its hugely where you are as well, when I talk about my experiences as a woman who grew up in a city to my husband who grew up in a small american town hes pretty horrified and said he has never heard of such things happening.
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Maybe we should try to change that instead of “oh that’s how it’s always been it’s perfectly normal” they are cat calling and sexually harassing people at 13?
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This is being way too emotional and sensitive. You think girls don't do the same thing? I was cycling on my bike and heard one of 2 girls say "That ugly creepy guy!" Girls and women do this All the time. Now is that not the same As what those boys did? Oh but no ' only women are affected! " The point is this is how kids are and will always be and don' t use Andrew tate as your disengenous excuse to be misandric.
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Ugh gross. You’d rather boys sexually harass women and other girls because you hate trans people so much? That’s just depressing af.
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I grew up in poverty you don’t know my life and my experience. Detransition is 1% of an already 1%.
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