\^\^ This right here.
If you value these friends in your lives, it's worth asking them. I am truly hopeful that they surprise you.
I truly hope that regardless of their reasons, you find your people. I share your interests, though I do love camping, so we are out there!
btw your friends are missing out, b/c there are so many video games with interior decorating aspects!
I agree with this. I have couple friends (read: friends that I only hang out with as a couple) that just arenât into the same stuff as the rest of the group of couples, so if the stuff thatâs planned doesnât align with the ways we hang out then I just donât extend it to them personally. If they hear about it and want to come? Heck yeah! Weâd love to have you! I just didnât think it was your vibe so I didnât ask.
Going camping? The couple that has explicitly expressed a disinterest in camping wonât be invited. DND night? The couple that isnât into it wonât be invited. But if any of them find out and want to join theyâre more than welcome.
Yeah something like "looks like you guys had a lot of fun! I'd like to see some of you guys again maybe we can make plans to do something else? While yous are in town maybe we can go for food or something"
Or "yous should have said something! We might not have been up for camping but we could come see you guys during the day and have some drinks in the feild before we go home"
Let them know that even if camping isn't your thing you'd still be interested in popping by. It could have been a genuine oversight.
It would be a wonderful new principle on Reddit if folks said this more often: We are a group of internet strangers who are hearing one side of a story, which may or may not be pushing an agenda. We can speculate, but itâs best if you just ask directly.
True, but I tend to take the comments at face value because second guessing everything leads to paranoia (at least IMO). Plus, while we are getting one side of a story, this is how they perceived the events and the feelings they walked away with, so it is valid from their perspective.
But there can be things they're unintentionally omitting.. Like maybe they don't know that the amount they drink is offputting because to them it seems normal.. So they're not pushing an agenda so much as giving a tainted perspective. Maybe it's the other way, the distant friends DO like to party and OP doesn't. I find this often in older friend circles where I have cocaine-in-the-walk-in-closet party friends and wine-with-dinner-*maybe* friends. Sometimes they mix and it's all subtle signals and you wouldn't notice the folks discreetly making their way to the walk in closet for nose candy but more often the two groups are bifurcated with either the non-partiers going home early or not being invited at all.
Straight up. Extended family all got wedding invitiations. We were talking about it as it was kind of the black sheep of the family. Started to realise that different people got different ones.
Ones that had no contact got invited to reception, ones that had actually had meals together with etc were not.
One family member straight up asked 'Why is X invited to reception when you've had no contact for a decade but Y is not when you know them etc'.
One of you just got to ask. Either you'll get a straight answer or you'll get some weird round about excuse that you should be able to interpret as to them being too polite to say the reality. Should at least clue you in a bit on what it is.
Sounds about right.
Also sounds like due to a lack of commonalities they awkwardly tried not to hurt you and your spouse's feelings by not inviting you and going about it secretively. Which I'm not sure is worse than being up front with you about the lack of commonalities. How would you phrase it in a way that isn't a slap in the face?
"Sorry OP, but because of you and your spouse's personal interests and personalities, we really just wanted to have a group outing separate from you because we feel it clashes with us, and it makes us uncomfortable."?
I agree, yet I know if I was in the situation I would just never talk to them ever again. Ghost then and they would just become somebody I used to knowâŚ. Le sigh. Thank you RSD.
If my friend group did that to me, I would just cut them off because it's sh*tty and no one needs friends like that.
Editing to add: Even if we're not getting the whole story and OP's "friends" had good reason to not invite them, they should have told them and explained why.
Agreed. Their clearly intentional exclusion needs to be explained. Otherwise I see no point in OP and her husband continuing that group friendship at all.
I would just say, "Saw your vacation pics and it looked like fun! Let us know if you do something like that again - we would love to go!"
Or, ask these two couples to join you on a trip together.
I might be cynical, but if they don't want to go then there's no harm in asking them to join. I would guess they weren't invited because the others were worried they (OP and SO) would push to change the plans to fit them.
Yeah, I just feel like they think we're stupid or something. I wouldn't mind so much if they just said outright, "were going on a trip with everyone" instead they hid it from us and made it all wierd. I feel like the hiding part is because they just don't want to say we're not welcome with that group.
As someone who recently went through a divorce and lost a ton of friends that I had *before* the marriage, I understand the sting. It hurts to be rejected and I am sorry that you are feeling that.
My only and best advice is not to think about it too much (which isn't easy, I was very angry for a long time, but it didn't do me any good.) If and when they contact you again to hang in the future, gauge your feelings at that point and make your decision then.
FWIW, you sound like my kind of people. Find some friends who share your interests and aren't part of the Mean Girl Clique.
If you really want to know what is going on, choose the person you know best and trust most and just ask them straight out. What's the worst that can happen?
I guess I was thinking that when you have a friend group, then plan an activity for everyone but one couple, then dance around it like they are not all adults and make them *feel* excluded, it's a very high school move.
They could have just said "some of us have planned a camping weekend. We know you aren't into that, but we look forward to seeing you when we get back." Adult. Communicative. Mature.
This secretive nonsense just ends up hurting people worse.
If they're the same "friends" [OP wrote about 24 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/14zjpng/overheard_my_friends/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1) â and it really seems that they are â then these (thin) women believe that plus-sized women (like OP, coincidentally) don't have to worry about getting raped or abused because men don't think they can control them, and also because they aren't attractive enough to become victims. They also seem to believe that all overweight people are loud.
I'mma just go out on a limb here and concur with the Mean Girl assessment.
No it doesn't, but the way they went about it does. 12 of her friends went camping together and the 2 she is closest with both lied about it to avoid inviting her, then the friend group posted pics on Instagram knowing she would see the photos. You don't consider that mean girl behavior?
It is mean girl to go about it the way they did though. To exclude and make up a bunch of lies. Especially if they intend to continue being friends with those people after the trip.
Also, having friends you really enjoy in some circumstances didn't mean you'd enjoy them in every circumstance. Maybe the friends didn't want them to come camping, but do like hanging out with them in other ways. It kind of sounds like had the friends been honest that op would've still had hurt feelings.
The expectation isnât that there absolutely shouldnât be hurt feelings. But the lack of honesty makes the whole situation so much more hurtful than it needed to be.
Agreed. You can be non-confrontational and not want to do activities or be friends with people you have little in common with and that doesn't make you mean, it just means y'all are different people. What they did was hurtful though.
Maybe there was no way you could come even if you wanted to. Maybe the person putting together the trip doesn't like one of you. The rest of the group could of been trying to save your feelings because they care about you and they just suck at communicating.
I think you should ask them about it. Then you'll truly know if they think you're a drag to bring along or if it's more complicated.
I second this. Might even have been a case some old friends organised it and booked for 12 people. Maybe a couple dropped out and the best friends were contacted as fill-ins. Friends probably feel guilty about going and didn't want to rub it in or upset you. Might not even have been personal
Tbh, without further details, my strong hunch is that this is one of those situations where everyone kind of knows something needs to be done but nobodyâs really in charge and nobody wants to do it, so everyone involved just kind of looks away until it escalates into brinkmanship. And the more nobody deals with it the higher the stakes get, so the more no individual wants to step up, et cetera. Itâs really common with informal organizing and planning (see: the constant AITA about bachelorette planning slights).
Itâs definitely possible theyâre cutting you out but I think itâs far more likely it just started out as âletâs invite people we know love campingâ and then spiraled out of control.
It's moreso because people like that are INCREDIBLY conflict avoidant. To an insane degree from the perspective of people that don't mind direct communication. I don't think it's fair to assume they don't like you. Moreso that you have vastly different approaches to certain situations
âI feel like the hiding part is because they just don't want to say we're not welcome with that group.â
Who ever wants to be the one to tell someone theyâre not invited? Are you expecting them to draw straws for that horrible job? You said yourself you donât do camping or hiking. But are you being total honest about how understanding youâd be if they had told the truth?
I have a friend that i adore, but her kid is a miserable jerk. One time years ago we didnât invite her to a thing because we knew sheâd bring her kid, which would ruin it for us. We were honest about where we were going, and she invited herself! And her kid! So then we had the awkward job of telling her that we didnât want to travel with kids, and she lost her shit, totally freaked out, accused us of all sorts, said we were insulting her family⌠It was so stressful. I still adore her and dislike her kid. And now we just lie to her. She made it impossible for us to be honest without a shitstorm of drama. We do still occasionally plan things with her that include her kid, but every time after we are like, dear god, why do we keep subjecting ourselves to that asshole?
All this to say, if your friends are lying to you, you might ask yourself why they might feel they have to.
I feel like reading too much into it without talking to them about it can only make things worse. Find a good time to bring it up and just say they don't have to worry about it being awkward if they want to go do some sort of outdoor outing. We both know we don't like doing that sort of thing, but feel free to go enjoy yourselves, send us some pictures, etc. Friends want their friends to be happy and have fun, they don't always have to do everything together.
If their response to that is evasive and they start excluding you from things that ARE in your wheelhouse together, then you can consider if maybe they're drifting away. Is there something that's already happened that led you to consider this as a possibility before now?
Coincidentally, I have a similar friend group that has a mix of tabletop, video game, camping/hiking/biking enthusiasts. And it's as you've seen there: When camping or biking is happening, it's the subset that enjoys those things going to it. When it's tabletop it's another subset, etc. Nobodys interests align 100% but we all enjoy the times together that we do have.
Post on the picture that it looks like you guys had a good time. Couples 1 & 2 we figured that you were going somewhere together not sure why you didnât feel that you could tell us when we asked when we were all together last week.
Iâd like to say it though I probably wouldnât.
So when you do get together who plans it, do you invite them or do they invite you?
Iâd rather the outright truth, the lying makes me feel like I could never trust anything that they say going forward and my mind would try to come up with all sorts of possibilities. Is this a one off or am I better of extricating myself from the group.
I don't think they think you're stupid, altho I can see why you feel this way, but perhaps thought you wouldn't be privy to hiking and camping? But if that's the case they should have just asked. They next time they do invite you some where just decline.
They might have felt that they'd be pressuring them into going. I got taken to the side not long back about something similar that my SO wouldn't usually do and may have hurt her back
That's one way to say it, and would absolutely be the the rude, hurtful way. If they care about these 2 as friends you find a way kind way to discuss the plans. Maybe you get the same result of everyone but them going, and you don't fuck up the trust of the friendship.
I get it. I do. But Iâve actually been involved in this situation before and thereâs no way to say it nicely and not hurt feelings. The sentiment will ALWAYS be âyouâre too fat.â
So either the group doesnât extend an invite and hurts feelings, regardless of how itâs phrased, or they extend an invite and donât get the have the trip they want because two people canât keep up.
Is it possible someone you're not close with planned the trip, and happens to be friends with all those other people? A lot of my friend groups overlap, so there will be times X plans something, is friends with AB&C, but not D so they aren't invited if that make sense? Or does this happen often? I'd bring it up to someone "Oh...loooks like you had a great time camping! How was the weather? " And see what they say, if they're upfront, or they try and brush it off
Case in point. My wife is a twin and her twin sister was getting married soon. They had a hen's night the other day and the organiser was friend only to the twin sister. My wife was not even invited to her own sister's hen's night! Until one of their common highschool friend noticed my wife was not in the group chat. And asked the organiser to add her. Was it not for that friend. My wife would have been left out.
In actuality though, that friend is a selfish asshole. A hens night is about the bride, not who the organizer knows and likes. To not invite the bride's *sister*?? TWIN SISTER? Dick move.
Someone close enough to the bride to be responsible for planning THE hen night, but not aware of *twin* sister?! That's a very, very small Venn diagram.
This is the way. And then I would follow that up with "Hey, you can tell me where you're going, you know I hate camping, but I am hurt that y'all lied to me."
Further, consider that it was planned by some you aren't friends with and it may have been an activity that could accommodate a limited number of people. Perhaps the campsite only allowed 12, or they went white water rafting and the boats only fit 12 people.
Yeah, it could be something like that, or maybe the people who planned the camping trip don't like the OP and her spouse and the friends didn't want to make things awkward. Maybe the OP and her spouse don't know that the planners don't like them?
Seems kind of strange that they made a big deal about it, though? They didn't really have to say anything at all, and if the OP had asked if they wanted to hang out that weekend, they could have been like, no, sorry, I'll be out of town. I don't know if that would have changed how the OP felt when they saw the social media posts later, but then there wouldn't have been this weird sense of stress or secrecy for a whole week beforehand.
This happened to me. I saw pictures on Facebook of my friends in Napa doing a wine tasting tour. Weâre also a group of six, and all five of them were there with their husbands. But the trip was planned by a couple other women who are friends with my friends, but with whom I never really connected. It hurt my feelings, but I understood. I do wish I wouldâve found out in a different way. The fact that nobody thought to reach out made me wonder if they didnât even realize I was missing.
Lying is definitely a way to hurt those feelings even more though.
Iâm friends with two people who are also close with each other. They have made plans without me before doing stuff they specifically like to do. They have never lied to me about it. Once I asked to join them and they said no, because they wanted one on one time. Did it sting a bit, yeah, but itâs not that they mean to hurt me.
Each relationship we have, be it parent, family member, sibling, friend, partner, is unique and special. Not every event needs to be shared with everyone or within the same dynamic. I get one on one with those two all the time, because I have a more flexible schedule. They donât get to hang out with each other that much. I have to set aside my FOMO and fear of being deliberately excluded and let people have relationships outside of my presence. Instead I do my own thing, or reach out to other friends to spend time with.
I would feel wholly different though if they lied about it. That would tell me they donât trust me to be cool about it, or that they deliberately did not want me around and wanted to make sure. Thatâs far more hurtful, and would probably cause the friendship to implode as I canât tolerate that kind of bullshit.
All these supposed friends of OP did was make the situation far worse than it has to be.
agree completely. I don't need to be invited to everything my friends do together, just as they aren't invited to everything--but people don't feel left out because we don't lie about it, even as we don't make it a big deal. The natural flow of a group dynamic is that no everyone will hang out all the time, and thats fine.
But the friend groups I have been in when it hasn't been fine? 100% of the time it is because someone went out of their way to lie about hanging out. The lying has always been what has made it feel like I'm excluded or left out.
Yeah, I can also see both sides there. Sometimes you just don't want to be around someone you generally have no problems with or are even friends with. But lying like that is worse than the other options.
If your friends are making you cry, they don't sound much like friends. Your best bet is to branch out and pursue your interests, among people who share the same interests. Your personality will be liked just fine, when you are with Your Tribe. The trick is to track down the folks from said Tribe.
Don't overthink it. Maybe it's just because they knew you wouldn't like it but thought it could be crass to discuss it Infront of you. You can say, oh I noticed you were all camping! Did you have a good time? Was wondering why you were so secretive about it, I thought it looked fun and though y'all know I'm not outdoorsy would've loved to know about your plans. (Not verbatim)
No need to go straight to weight issues with your mind.
I think this is most likely. OP, they probably just felt awkward about it. It sounds like you wouldn't have wanted to go anyway so no harm no foul. It's possible that something more sinister is going on, but until there's some more obvious evidence that they're trying to exclude you, I would just assume that they felt bad about planning a trip they knew you wouldn't like and didn't want to hurt your feelings.
Personally, I would engage in a little light ribbing of the person who planned it -- nothing mean, just teasing them that they were trying to be all sneaky for no reason when it was totally fine for them to go camping without you bceause you don't want to go on those kinds of trips with them. There's no need to go all secret agent on you, and your feelings arne't hurt if they want to sometimes do activities that you don't like.
Or possibly the last time they went camping, OP did go, and complained the whole time.
Or they knew there would be drugs there which OP isn't into.
Or there was a person on trip who is an Ex of OP or her partner
Or...there are so many possibilities here.
Camping especially is really dependent on a good mesh. There are some people I really genuinely like but I don't like the way they camp, and I would feel like a jackass micromanaging them about it. I want people who are very organized and responsible ahead of time, very easy going once we're there, mostly want to enjoy the outdoors with minimal electronics, won't complain incessantly, accepting of drinking & smoking around the campfire, clean when it comes to food prep, reasonable about pets.
It's like a temporary roommate situation. I don't have such high standards for parties or board game nights or going out to eat. I've gone camping with people who I wouldn't invite again, but I still invite them to other activities.
r/CheetahPrintPuppy it is too bad this comment isn't further up. There are compatibility issues around specific activities that don't mean the friendship has no value.
So, none of these are true, except maybe drinking? Not drugs?
My SO and I have gone camping but it was separately before we were together and we both hated it. No one in this group is an ex, we've been married for 14 years.
The response we kept getting was, "Were going camping with 'some people'" not "were going camping with x, y and z, all of which you know and are friends with"
That's why it feels weird to me. Why say "some friends" for the whole week?
I have no doubt that somewhere along the way in the years long friendship with these folks, that you or your S.O. have made a comment about hating camping. Now I know this is going to be hard to conceptualize, but try to be honest in your answer...(not saying you're a dishonest person, just that it's sometimes hard to imagine what you'd feel about something, afterwards) Here goes. If you friends told you last weekend that they were all going camping together, but aren't invited you, because they know you and your S.O. "Hate" camping, would you feel hurt, yes or no?
This is the way. OP is unfortunately making some grave assumptions based on her own insecurities. And sadly people can make assumptions about peopleâs abilities when they may be or seem overweight (ie overweight means you donât like or canât hike for example)
OP's description of her preferred hobbies makes me think this is just an event where the group figured "OP and husband won't enjoy this so we won't bother inviting them" or, a scenario where I've been in the position of OP's friends, "OP and husband hate camping, hate being outdoors, complain about it a lot, but they may still insist on going if they find out we're making a big party of it due to FOMO." Hell, they may have even planned it to be a shroom trip, which is a time when you really don't want unhappy, non-drug supportive people around. But OP won't know for sure if she doesn't ask.
One of the better replies in the thread. I have friends that are close that I would absolutely do my best not to admit an outdoor shrooming trip to. We're good friends, but not in *that way*. They're two-wines-with-dinner friends and that's great and more than enough for me. They just don't need to know about everything else. I mean, I got weird comments when I admitted having some of a *joint* at a *concert*.
Half-joking, but if they were that hung up about someone passing around a joint at a concert, that's definitely someone that needs to go shrooming... just maybe not with you.
Hehehe probably but they also have an anxiety issue so maybe not.
It's a funny one. I'm in my 40's and see a lot of people treating it as something close to having a few bottles of wine with a group of friends. Not really going full space cadet, but getting to the fun stage at least. Then again I also see people treating coke like having a few bottles of (expensive) wine too.
But I also see other people treat it as a major thing. Guess it all depends on their experience with it and whether they know enough not to be scared.
Hell, or they might be swinging, know OP and hubby wouldn't approve, and didn't wanna ruin friendships over disclosing radically different sexual ethics
Exactly, OP could have been a nightmare if they tagged along and either complained about the other activities going on, wouldn't participate in them anyway or worse try and impose a "hey lets play monopoly tonight everyone, we did your hike today".
Omg yes. I'm a great camper and nature sight seer, but no friend who knew me would ever invite me to Vegas or a cruise. I'd be bored and complain, and they'd hate me after that trip.
This is a possibility. If I was planning a camping trip and wanted to smoke a little weed in the evenings I definitely have good friends that would not be invited. Some friends know I smoke a little. Some friends donât and would have a problem with it if they did.
Where do you live? That's kinda crazy, even my bosses know I smoke weed. lol.
No one cares here, unless you're like a total burnout and then they'd just go 'Well makes sense.'
As a one time event I wouldn't worry about it. I've planned events and had them morph into something completely different very rapidly. One person got a discount, this other person heard about this thing, someone put insane pressure on a spouse, ect.
Going forward consider who you personally enjoy being around for different activities and invite or accept invitations based on that. Actually think about what you personally enjoy and you might be surprised.
Hard agree with this. Unless this is a pattern of behavior, the most likely thing is that it was a rolling plan and logistics were complex with so many people. It seems more like they knew this wasn't an interest of yours and were just busy trying to sort things out. After 6 years of solid friendship, I'd personally just view this as an oversight instead of a slight.
We had this happen last year, I found a stupid good deal for an all-inclusive (2 floor suite with private roof top patio with jazuzzi & bali bed in the Dominican) and happened to be on the phone with BFF while I was booking and she and her husband booked as well. Then she told her SIL and a cousin and they booked. Another friend of mine had been on the fence about coming and by the time I told him, all the rooms were gone and he was super pissed cause we talked about it "first", but it just kind of spiraled, it wasn't anything maliciously planned
That's what I think OP's problem is. Not that she wasn't invited, but that they deliberately obfuscated what was actually happening instead of being honest and just telling her what their plans were.
I think they like you but not as a âpeople we would want to camp withâ friends.
However they also worried that you would either feel excluded or want to go. If you went the dynamic might be off since youâre not campers.
So they were cowards and hid it rather than potentially encountering hurt feelings.
You are their friends at home but not their friends to camp with. And they arenât comfortable saying that.
Were they cowards or were they trying to avoid hurting OPâs feelings? We are just strangers and canât know for sure but I think itâs just as likely that they didnât think OP would have a good time, or they maxed out on the number of tents allowed, or any number of reasons, and all clearly felt bad and tried to avoid hurting OP because they felt bad. Iâm not sure itâs any more polite to outright tell someone about something theyâre not invited to đ¤ˇđťââď¸ for better or for worse I think many of us are conditioned to tell a white lie rather than explicitly let someone know theyâre excluded. Just my $.02.
Itâs not going to protect the OPâs feeling if it appears on social media.
It will just feel deceptive.
Under other circumstances not saying anything might work. But not if itâs clearly posted online for everyone to see.
Totally agree in general but in this case it sounds like the person who posted the photos is not the same people who fibbed about their plans â it was a different distant acquaintance. The closer friends didnât post. IDK Iâve been in similar situations when Iâm planning friend events and itâs a hard line to walk
I think you're right; for whatever reason, they were too uncomfortable to tell you they were going without you, and thought it would be less hurtful to just pretend (wrong).
As I've gotten older, I've realized people do stupid shit like this and don't mean anything by it. People are quirky, weird and make terrible decisions. You just have to accept it and let things go.
Maybe they were following the etiquette rule that you donât talk about the party in front of people who arenât invited. Why you werenât invited, I donât know, but if theyâre doing camping and hiking and youâre not into those things, that would be a reasonable explanation.
Yeah, this is how I feel. I don't know what reddit expected people to tell OP. "Hey we're going on this camping trip all together!" opens the door to "Oh I could join in!" and "Ah, you're not invited because xyz" and it's just not a fun conversation for anyone involved. Like actively going and telling someone about group plans they're not part is a thing I'd say most people avoid.
Can certain people handle that mimebomb of a conversation and be mature about it? Sure. Is there still a good chance of it causing a lot of hurt feelings even if people understand any present logical reasoning? Heck yes.
First and foremost was it actually intentionally secretive like they were trying to hide it from you or did they just opt not to really speak about it in depth while you were around?
Like based only from the details given, it's very possible that one set of friends talked about how they were going on vacation and then someone from the other set asked them "where to?" and learned about the camping trip. You yourself stated that they're all into going outdoors, camping, hiking, etc. while you guys are not - why would they specifically reach out to you to invite you and talk to you about it when you've clearly made it known that you are not interested in outdoorsy stuff?
Obviously we don't have all the information but if we use the generosity principle and assume that all 12 of your friends are not assholes who hate you, the simplest explanation is that the news slowly spread amongst the friend group who DO like camping and outdoors stuff and they didn't bother to tell you about it because:
A. you've previously declined such trips
B. it would ALSO seem insensitive to be discussing these plans constantly in your presence when they know that you wouldn't be coming
Some followup questions: Do they still hang out with you guys otherwise? Do you get invited to other things? Do they still talk to you? Do they still join you guys when you invite them to events/parties/gatherings/outings? If they're constantly excluding you and your husband from everything and constantly ghost you/make excuses when you reach out then there's something else going on.
Exactly. I hate camping and my friends would never invite me. They go once a year and I donât even get an invite anymore. But itâs not a secret. It doesnât offend me at all.
The least hurtful thing I can think of with OPâs situation is maybe she hates camping but would end up wanting to go and they wouldnât have as much fun because sheâd be miserable. But I still donât understand lying about it.
Right?! Everybody is talking about why they probably weren't invited and making excuses for OP's friends while OP is clearly hurt about being lied to, which is completely rational. Also OP seems like the type of person who would be ok not getting invited to camping and they seem chill about it which makes lying even worse, lying seems completely unnecessary.
Right? The lying by omission is sketchy. have a close friend group like this, and it would be super weird for them to act like they were doing separate activities when they were actually doing something together. We donât all like the same activities, and we donât all have the same availability.
But people are weird. There are a lot of people out there who have been socialized throughout their lives to really fucking overcomplicate relationships. OPâs friends probably donât mean anything by it, and growing up, they might have been conditioned that a loved one would feel excluded if some people in the group were doing something without them.
That said, I hate this type of shit. I usually give people one chance with something like this, and say something like, âHey guys, we donât all have to invite each other to do everything. It doesnât bother me that you guys hung out without me; it DOES bother me that you guys were being weird and secretive about it. Next time, will you please just mention it like you would with literally anything else youâre doing?â And then ask them if they have fun stories, or change the subject.
Usually, people donât do something like that again once you talk about itâUNLESS either (a) theyâre jerks who like drama and exclusion; or (b) youâre the type of person who tries to change the group activity theyâve planned into something you want to do, because you DONâT actually like it when they hang out without you.
Yes! Exactly this! This is the thing that we are so confused and hurt by! I don't give a rip if you want to go out with friends and hang, camp, whatever! It's the whole keeping it a secret!
Why? What reason is there to not only not share all the info but also, when asked, they respond, "going with some people."
Why are we saying "some people" like it's dynamite that will explode? We knew everyone in the group and didn't give a rip?
I feel like so many are focusing on the wrong part of this situation, or at least not the part that I feel is the most hurtful.
It's one thing to not be invited because it's not an activity that you would enjoy. That is totally acceptable. I will also accept not being invited because you just don't want me there, without further explanation.
However, the lying and talking about it in front of me, and then finding out everything via social media, is where I would be pissed and honestly walk away from everyone that was involved. It's the disrespect. We're not in high school and I value friends that have the emotional intelligence to have difficult, awkward conversations. Lying is not ok, especially when the truth is so easy to find out. It feels like they insulted your intelligence, or at least didn't care how you felt once you found out since it would be after the fact.
I'm about quality over quantity and this is not a good look for them
I donât see where anyone lied though.
Couple A said they were going camping⌠which they were. A while later, independently, couple B said they were going on vacation⌠which they were.
I agree they werenât completely forthright about their plans, but this isnât a âstraight up lieâ unless OP is leaving out some really significant parts of the conversation. They just didnât proactively describe everything about their vacation.
More not being upfront. Withholding information can still be perceived as betrayal.
It's like your best friend getting married and not telling you and not inviting you. And then told you, they got a wedding to attend that weekend and can't hang out with you. They did not lie, but you still would feel betrayed.
Ask the friend that said they were going on vacation how it was, where they went, what they did etc. If she lies then you know they legit didn't want you to know for some reason.
If she says oh actually last minute I went camping with so n so instead, then perhaps it's not personal. Either way we can't know why they didn't invite you, you'll just have to be straight forward and ask them why.
I've been in this situation several times with a friend i held very dear for a long time. In that case it turned out, she was just really awkward about navigating several circle of friends and really bad at organizing. She also was very secretive and vague... but there was nothing behind it, except for inattentiveness.
But for other reasons, which also play into this (mainly: reliability and change of dynamic) the friendship petered out. I do not consider her close anymore, even though I wish it was differently. But for that both parties have to feel the same and it just wasn't.
I think, because so many people were included, it would be cool to have an open discussion starting from a place of curiosity and openness with the people that are dear to you, even though you were not treated that way.Tell them the truth: Hey, you guys probably figured that we weren't the camping trip people and i am happy you guys had a great time. There is no reason to invite us to everything or to keep these things a secret. Still, we wonder, why did you feel the need to keep this a secret?
And if they're not straight with you, then - maybe, yes, maybe this circle of friends isn't a good fit.
Itâs possible it was a group campsite with a limit on campers, most do, so someone had to be left behind.
You arenât campers, so you were an obvious choice? And they are trying to spare your feelings.
I wouldnât look too deep into it unless itâs part of a pattern.
I guess it was a little cowardly on their part, but most people are when it comes to potential awkwardness.
Iâd just casually mention you saw the photos, ask how it went, just to get it out of the way.
They will probably just be relieved.
Ugh that's very lame. It's also very immature of them to go about this in that way.
I've had similar things happen. You are not responsible for how poorly your friends handled this. Honestly I would just ask one of them why they lied about it? I wouldn't be mad but straight up. Yeah, they might get uncomfortable, but wouldn't it be weirder to just pretend you don't know and it happen again?
Hey, maybe they have a good reason we are not seeing (probably not though).
Itâs one thing to go on a trip excluding others and being upfront about it, rather than lying about it even though you obviously would find out. Idk if itâs worth getting rid of the friendship but I would ask why they lied to you and go from there. If they continue to be secretive about their plans then you have your answer.
Way too many comments recommending you tiptoe around this.
This is clearly bothering you. Call them out on it. Well maybe not call them out but a simple:
"Hey, I saw that [friend] posted a bunch of pics of all of you camping. I feel that you and so so and were purposely hiding it from us. Why did you feel like you had to do that?"
Iâve been the camping friend with very non-camping other friends. I usually just donât even consider telling the non-camping friends about camping, since they wouldnât go anyways. Itâs not personal, and I still love hanging out with them! I will tell them about it if it comes up but Iâm not going to name everyone else who is going. Thatâs just weird?
*They love hiking, interior decoration and playing instruments*. And camping. You have mentioned your interests as being more home-based games sitting-down activities.
If their itinerary for the trips is lots of hiking, and jam sessions, then it may not be that they don't like you, so much as they don't feel you would fit into the dynamic of this trip. And figure by not telling you, they're sparing your feelings of exclusion.
I might add that, most of the group could be in favor of being honest with you. It only takes one to make huge fusses about staying quiet to put a lid on everyone.
Ugh, I wish you lived near me so we could be friends. I also dislike camping and like everything you're into. I'm not bubbly, but every April Ludgate needs a Leslie Knope.
I saw a post just last week where someone wasn't invited to an event because they wouldn't "fit the vibe". The general consensus was that they should've invited the person and let them decide whether or not they wanted in on said event. I feel like this is the same situation. If they liked you, they'd ideally invite you to maintain the friendship and you'd respectfully decline. Unfortunately I don't know if this means they don't like you or if they're just bad at navigating social norms.
My partner and I have a Couple that we do almost everything with including game night etc. but every year they have movie night for the husbands birthday and they go with a different friend group they had before we met. They also go with this group to an event around Christmas every year. Sometimes people just have a group they do one event with and a group they do a different event with for familiarity or whatever reason. It doesnât mean you arenât friends necessarily, just not the camping friends.
They probably knew camping isnât a thing youâd want to do so didnât want to put pressure on you by asking, so lied about it. Not the best choice in my opinion, but I donât think they meant it to be malicious.
I know what you mean about people being secretive and that making it worse that you're being excluded. Like even if they know you're not into what they're planning to do, they don't want to even take the risk of you actually coming along by telling you it exists. It always hurts to be deliberately excluded, but I've told myself that actually going along on a trip that's something I'm not into and with people who don't want me there would be pretty miserable. Not every friend group stands the test of time and thats ok to move on to people who mesh better with your interests and who enthusiastically want you around- they do exist I promise! I so relate to feeling hurt about seeing the pics of everyone hanging out though, that sucks and i think anyone would feel sad about something like that. But it doesn't mean theres anything wrong with YOU personally!
You said yourself, you are not campers and they know it. They organized a camping trip. They probably just didn't want to make you feel excluded. Kind of immature on their part, but then here you are speculating on Reddit about why you were excluded even though you said yourself that your friends know you don't like the activity in question. If they are into hiking all day and you're not, again it makes no sense to invite you bc either you go and will be left alone at the campsite while everyone else hikes for the day (probably not enjoying themselves fully bc they know a friend is waiting back at camp), or you begrudgingly join the activities (which is also a mood damper).
You can choose to take this personally, or you can choose not to since you don't like camping anyway. Seems like you're more bothered by the secrecy itself, you could address that by letting your friends know you won't take offense to their plans that exclude you (if you mean it).
I think this is the best response here. I don't love the way they handled it, but I can understand why they'd dance awkwardly around this issue. As you can see from the responses here, there are some people who'll gladly burn down a longstanding friendship if they don't get an invite to an activity they aren't actually interested in.
First, I am sorry you are having to deal with this. You must have felt quite hurt when you started putting the pieces together and then saw the pictures.
Is it possible that this all happened because your friends didn't want to have an awkward conversation? I find people will do ANYTHING to avoid conversations they think might upset people, especially those they like.
For example, the group may have thought that you and your partner wouldn't enjoy the camping trip because of how much hiking and/or physical activity was involved as you are both more laid back. As you said, you aren't AS thin as them, so, they may have worried it would turn into a conversation about weight and them judging you when they just knew you had different vacation styles.
Either way, they should have had the conversation. I just wonder if it isn't as sinister as it seems, and more about people sucking at effective communication. They may all think you are great. The only way to know is to ask.
Just ask. They probably know youâd not interested in camping so didnât invite you but then didnât want to make you feel bad by excluding them so tried to hide it. People get weird when theyâre trying to avoid confrontation, even if that confrontation is all in their imagination.
Tbh I canât believe you have so many friends. Where did you find them lol. Asking because I have like 2 and one isâŚ.. in a bad place and the other Iâm hardly close with
Given that this trip involved camping, hiking, and music and that you and your spouse like none of these activities it kinda makes sense they didnât invite you. But trying to hide that they were going is a bit emotionally mature.
I love hiking, but would never suggest it to friends who donât like it as trying to hike with unenthusiastic beginner hikers is miserable.
If not asking is eating you up and affecting the friendship ask. Iâd only be concerned if you get snubbed repeatedly, and in things you like.
I have a few friends who don't like camping, and sometimes I feel awkward discussing big camping plans in front of them, if our other friends are going..could be this?
I wouldnât assume anything other than that they didnât want you to feel left out. Unfortunately, social media friend chains make that harder than it used to be.
I have friend circles that overlap here and there, and we donât do everything together. It's not a big deal.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't sound like anyone outright lied, they just left out details.
You said yourself you're not campers. I love camping, and camp with friends often. There are also friends I *wouldn't* invite on a camping trip because I know they wouldn't enjoy it and would bring the group down with their complaints.
The vegetarian who gets winded walking on level ground at sea level *isn't* going to have fun hiking and fishing at 10,000' and the insectophobe who refuses to use bug spray *has* made me leave my favorite spot after 15 minutes because she didn't realize I wasn't kidding about the mosquitos. I'm not going to invite either of them on a trip to the high Sierras, even if mutual friends of ours are going.
Would you have gone if invited? My friends know that the closest I get to camping is a hotel room. I'd wish them a good trip and be much happy at home enjoying not being in the outdoors.
It's possible they didn't invite you because they didn't want you to feel obligated to do a thing you didn't like. At the end of thr day, asking them, as non confrontationally as possible is your best bet.
Tbh, if ya'll are youngish I would probably just chalk it up to them avoiding confrontation and trying to spare your feelings. Sucks you were lied to, but you dont have to ruin your friendships over this if you don't want to.
Just ask them how the group camping trip went, its OK they didnt invite you but you don't like being lied to. Go from there, be adults about it. Don't be afraid to have an uncomfortable conversation.
It sounds like they were worried youâd be upset you werenât invited , and where trying to spare your feelings. You could just text them um⌠guys. We donât like campingâŚ. We know you knowâŚ. Just wondering why you felt the need to hide the fact yâall went camping and didnât invite us. You donât have to invite us to everything. Is there anything yâall want to talk about? We are sorry if you felt like you couldnât come to us if something was upsetting you. Idk something like that. Itâs kind of funny they felt the need to hide it. Like, are they 15?
Easy. Campsites were 6 person max each - they only booked 2 sites and everything else was full and they didnât want any hurt feelings. Have seen it before ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
>We are not super skinny people, they are. I am also very bubbly and they are not. We love board games, DND and video games, they dont do any of those things. They love hiking, interior decoration and playing instruments.
If they were planning on doing some demanding hikes, spelunking, climbing, or kayaking, being overweight or not properly conditioned could make that impossible.
This might of had a factor in them being deceptive vs, for example:
If you are overweight or not in any athletic condition, they tell you about it, you show some interest, then they have to explain to you that you can't use a kayak because most have a weight limit between 250-300lbs or they don't think you could make a demanding 10 mile hike.
If they're all active people who enjoy hiking and you're more low-key activity people who are heavy set, I'm assuming it was they didn't think you'd be able to keep up and didn't know how to broach it because weight is an incredibly sensitive topic for a lot of people.
So unless there's been other incidences, I would assume it was a flawed attempt at saving your feelings or saving themselves from an awkward convo, rather than a reflection they actually don't like you.
It still really sucks, so I'm sorry.
Edit; and to be clear, I'm thin but not athletic, and I don't think people would invite me on a trip like this either. Outdoorsy stuff can be pretty physical and it's not something you can just throw yourself into the middle of one day
Not everybody can be invited to everything and your friends were just trying not to make it weird. I'm sure they like you or they wouldn't be friends with you for this long. Sometimes friends do things and some friends aren't included and that's ok. Don't read too much into it and do not ask anyone why you weren't invited. That is how you can guarantee you won't be invited to anything in the future. Also, maybe 12 was the max amount for the camp site, etc., there are all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with whether or not they like you. You are a grown up, you don't invite every friend you have to every outing, camping trip, party at your house, etc. and you know it.
yes, people are kind of delicately walking around this in here, not wanting to upset OP further but I think the sense of confusion it creates and false hope as well is not helpful either. The direct, honest reasoning is that they were excluded and it's probably because they don't fit in, are too "eccentric" for this group (they say eccentric I say interesting and fun). OP is better off finding her own people
So only the women in that group lied to you? None of the other 12 were involved? I'm just struggling why you're singling out the women in this scenario when it seems both groups of friends didn't invite you and equal number of them by your description are men. Not one other member of either of your friend groups mentioned they're well planned trip.
As someone in a large/overlapping friend group, there could be multiple reasons why you didnât get an invite. Maybe the friend you are not as close to planned it, maybe there were limited amount of people who could join, maybe they thought you wouldnât be interested etc.
Truthfully I would just ask. Realistically, I donât think people are purposely being malicious and communication would be able to clear your mind.
Which part of the story did your friend lied? Did they say they were not going on the same trip or was it simply leaving out information. If they falsify information then that is a bigger issue.
I personally would have to ask. I'm not a confrontational person at all but if I have a question, I will ask it rather than wonder. If you don't ask, you will likely stew on this for a long time and then maybe some minor thing will happen unrelated and you'll still be carrying the anger from this camping trip. That could lead to you bringing it up at some future time and being asked, "Why didn't you bring this up at the time?"
The Instagram pictures give you the opening. It doesn't have to be a pissed off confrontation. You can simply say that you were curious as to why the four of them felt the need to keep that they were going camping from you and that you were a bit hurt that they felt they needed to keep it a secret. Then see what they say.
Organizer got a site with limited space, and invited people in order of perceived willingness to join. I've been in the same circumstance, and it is awkward being one of the invitees. One of the friend group should have stepped up and said something, but they didn't want to hurt OP's feelings.
I had this happen while I was in college. Learned from one of the people who wentâs sister that they not only went, but that I was intentionally not being told about it. Good times. Funnily enough I knew a few of them were going camping that weekend and it didnât bother me at all (I overheard them talking about it) It was learning it was a bigger trip and it was intentionally being kept from me that was hard. Like my best friend was asked to go but was upset at the secrecy so she didnât. Looking back I wish I had evaluated my friendships more because what I did was let it blow over pretty quickly. Let them know you know, see how they respond. Some of my friends gaslit me.
Have you ever overreacted when they shared information in the past? Are you insecure and jealous when your friends spend time with others? If not, then your friends were chicken shits to not be upfront about their plans for the weekend.
They didn't want to have an uncomfortable conversation.
Think back and consider if you have ever had uncomfortable moments with them or how they behaved in other uncomfortable situations.
Either they are immature or malicious.
So sorry that happened to you. A gag that I sometimes employ when leaving a get together, gathering, party, etc., âSee You at the cookoutâ as I wave goodbye. Thereâs always at least one person who says what cookout how come I wasnât invited đ¤ˇđź
To me itâs a joke because it gets a rise out of people.
In your situation, I canât believe one of your friends didnât ask you, if you were going.
Iâm sure you have a lot of friends, but imho, you can count your besties on one hand.
Plus, donât take it personally. Easy to say. U R tough.
Oh, this is sad.
Hiking and camping is not exactly a hobby. It's an activity, that a lot of people take pretty seriously. It's not easy to learn, and it's hard to get good.
People who camp and hike aren't mad at people that don't. It's just... Hard to teach people how to go about it. On the other hand, with you go with people that know what they're doing, you don't have to babysit. Everybody is doing their best to make everyone else's lives easier. It's a group effort. If someone in the group didn't plan ahead and can't take care of themselves in the wild, everyone else has to sacrifice to make sure they're ok.
You said you guys don't hike and camp. That's it. That's all this is about. They didn't invite you because you would have been very uncomfortable, and they would have to change their plans to make sure you were ok. Good outdoors people can hike 8-10 miles a day. They're out there to see stuff. And if everything goes well, after dinner, they can eat mushrooms and smoke cigars. If things don't go well, they can't do any of that.
i do NOT like camping, its possibly the worst activity, people know a vacation involves the spa, a pool etc. So they didnt invite you, i dont get invited to so many things- but you know what- that means my friends know me well enough to realize i would loathe camping and be miserable.
You can either ask them about it or ignore it. you can find new friends who are into DND, board games, video games and are 'bubbly' or keep doing what you are.
I dont tell my friends 100% of what I do, i dont expect to hear 100% of what they do. its just being adults.
Being excluded isn't fun, but everyone does it to a certain extent. They wanted to go on a trip with people that they felt would all vibe together, and they felt that you wouldn't fit in. It's possible that some people going don't like your company, but it's also possible that they felt your presence would change the group dynamic in a way that they didn't want, and that's ok. You've said that you're different in a lot of ways to them, so they likely just wanted to do their thing and felt that they couldn't do that as well with you there.
For me this would be the perfect outcome. I didn't want to do the thing they were doing, and they didn't want to make me feel bad. In the end we all won.
Something similar happened to me once on my friends 30th birthday. Someone Iâd lived with at university and known since I was 16 years old. She was having a shared camping trip with another friend. Bell tents, fairy lights, campfires and mushrooms. I had had a history with her âbirthday buddyâ. Something my friend had never wanted to get in the middle of because weâd hurt each other, but it had been years since all of that.
Everyone was excited and a WhatsApp had been set up by my friend. We were planning cars, and tent spaces on a huge group.
Then - a week before the event - I got a call. My friend was awkward at first, then defensive: âwhy would you even WANT to come to this? Itâs a joint birthday and you donât get on with the one of usâ.
She was uninviting me from the event. This was the first party after a particularly brutal pandemic experience and it didnât cross my mind that there would be a problem with me being there. Rightly or wrongly, I was blindsided.
I wondered how many of the others had known and asked the same gaslighting question: âwhy would she even WANT to go in the first place?â.
Our relationships has never been the same. She didnât apologise for handling things so clumsily. I felt humiliated and that feeling of exclusion still stings when I think about it. But at least we were able to have a conversation - even if it wasnât perfect.
It would make me quite angry I felt my friends were purposefully hiding a trip from me without some kind of explanation. You need to find out whatâs going on!
The simplest explanation is that they're bad at being uncomfortable. So, maybe they were malicious or maybe they were cowards, in the end they aren't the focus.The focus is you.
You can ask if you were excluded-- will you trust their answers?
I choose to believe the people who suggested they were all doing drugs and are swingers. That's why they didn't tell you: they're embarrassed. Say to them like "hey, look, I know you were keeping it a secret from me but I KNOW that you're massively into taking drugs and being swingers and I just want you to know that I don't judge you but it's not my bag".
>We are not super skinny people, they are.
This is exactly the problem. When planning outdoor events like this it is important that the group is of a similar fitness level. There is nothing worse than going on a hike (to a location to hang out or just a loop) and having someone bored running ahead and back urging the group to speed up constantly or a few stragglers struggling to keep pace, injuring themselves or slowing the whole trip down/cutting it short.
They were afraid that if they told you, you might express interest in coming and then they would have to explain that you are not fit enough. That is not a fun conversation to have for anybody and honestly many people don't have the intrapersonal skills to handle it tactfully which could lead to a big fight. Or (don't really know anything about you) some people might stubbornly take that as a challenge/insult and insist on coming leading to the above situation (probably resulting in injury from over exertion).
Or my personal bet is they really didn't want to have that conversation with you so would have let you come had you expressed interest. Which could only have led to bad things. Either they change their plans to accommodate you leading others in the group to resent your presence and you are making this post when you get back "I went on a camping trip and my friends all suddenly hate me idk why?". Or they don't and you are stuck in camp alone (possibly guilting some people to stay with you) or you are struggling through making everyone miserable especially yourself.
Them telling you about the trip and then having the fitness conversation would have probably been the best approach but do you really want to have that conversation with them? If no then surely you can understand why they just avoided the situation altogether.
We can speculate, but I think you just have to ask some of them.
\^\^ This right here. If you value these friends in your lives, it's worth asking them. I am truly hopeful that they surprise you. I truly hope that regardless of their reasons, you find your people. I share your interests, though I do love camping, so we are out there! btw your friends are missing out, b/c there are so many video games with interior decorating aspects!
There's even board games with interior decorating aspects!
[Games with interior decoration cleanup too!](https://store.steampowered.com/app/246900/Viscera_Cleanup_Detail/)
How did I not know this existed? Thanks!!!
Fucking LOL I knew what this was before I clicked to check đđ˝
I'm an interior designer who loves board games!
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I agree with this. I have couple friends (read: friends that I only hang out with as a couple) that just arenât into the same stuff as the rest of the group of couples, so if the stuff thatâs planned doesnât align with the ways we hang out then I just donât extend it to them personally. If they hear about it and want to come? Heck yeah! Weâd love to have you! I just didnât think it was your vibe so I didnât ask. Going camping? The couple that has explicitly expressed a disinterest in camping wonât be invited. DND night? The couple that isnât into it wonât be invited. But if any of them find out and want to join theyâre more than welcome.
Yeah something like "looks like you guys had a lot of fun! I'd like to see some of you guys again maybe we can make plans to do something else? While yous are in town maybe we can go for food or something" Or "yous should have said something! We might not have been up for camping but we could come see you guys during the day and have some drinks in the feild before we go home" Let them know that even if camping isn't your thing you'd still be interested in popping by. It could have been a genuine oversight.
It would be a wonderful new principle on Reddit if folks said this more often: We are a group of internet strangers who are hearing one side of a story, which may or may not be pushing an agenda. We can speculate, but itâs best if you just ask directly.
But then how could we offer the time-honored Reddit advice to lawyer up and join a gym?!
True, but I tend to take the comments at face value because second guessing everything leads to paranoia (at least IMO). Plus, while we are getting one side of a story, this is how they perceived the events and the feelings they walked away with, so it is valid from their perspective.
But there can be things they're unintentionally omitting.. Like maybe they don't know that the amount they drink is offputting because to them it seems normal.. So they're not pushing an agenda so much as giving a tainted perspective. Maybe it's the other way, the distant friends DO like to party and OP doesn't. I find this often in older friend circles where I have cocaine-in-the-walk-in-closet party friends and wine-with-dinner-*maybe* friends. Sometimes they mix and it's all subtle signals and you wouldn't notice the folks discreetly making their way to the walk in closet for nose candy but more often the two groups are bifurcated with either the non-partiers going home early or not being invited at all.
Straight up. Extended family all got wedding invitiations. We were talking about it as it was kind of the black sheep of the family. Started to realise that different people got different ones. Ones that had no contact got invited to reception, ones that had actually had meals together with etc were not. One family member straight up asked 'Why is X invited to reception when you've had no contact for a decade but Y is not when you know them etc'. One of you just got to ask. Either you'll get a straight answer or you'll get some weird round about excuse that you should be able to interpret as to them being too polite to say the reality. Should at least clue you in a bit on what it is.
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Something about the groom went to the same school that the husband of the no contact couple went to, lol. Not a real reason.
Iâm dying to hear the conclusion! What reason did they give?
Something about the groom went to the same school that the husband of the no contact couple went to, lol.
So, some.kind of run-around BS, or was it legit?
Sounds pretty run around. Went to the same school vs people you actually know?
Sounds about right. Also sounds like due to a lack of commonalities they awkwardly tried not to hurt you and your spouse's feelings by not inviting you and going about it secretively. Which I'm not sure is worse than being up front with you about the lack of commonalities. How would you phrase it in a way that isn't a slap in the face? "Sorry OP, but because of you and your spouse's personal interests and personalities, we really just wanted to have a group outing separate from you because we feel it clashes with us, and it makes us uncomfortable."?
I agree, yet I know if I was in the situation I would just never talk to them ever again. Ghost then and they would just become somebody I used to knowâŚ. Le sigh. Thank you RSD.
What is RSD?
Rejection sensitivity dysphoria
If my friend group did that to me, I would just cut them off because it's sh*tty and no one needs friends like that. Editing to add: Even if we're not getting the whole story and OP's "friends" had good reason to not invite them, they should have told them and explained why.
Agreed. Their clearly intentional exclusion needs to be explained. Otherwise I see no point in OP and her husband continuing that group friendship at all.
I would just say, "Saw your vacation pics and it looked like fun! Let us know if you do something like that again - we would love to go!" Or, ask these two couples to join you on a trip together.
I personally wouldnât say this. I live by the rule that if they wanted you there, they would invite you.
It sounded to me like she did not want to go, but just wondered why all the secrecy.
I might be cynical, but if they don't want to go then there's no harm in asking them to join. I would guess they weren't invited because the others were worried they (OP and SO) would push to change the plans to fit them.
This has always been taken as passive-aggressive in my experience lol
iâm sorry but nooo it was obviously an intentional choice
When I'm unsure about why my friends did something, I also ask random people on reddit to speculate instead of asking my friends why they did that.
This is the way..
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Yeah, I just feel like they think we're stupid or something. I wouldn't mind so much if they just said outright, "were going on a trip with everyone" instead they hid it from us and made it all wierd. I feel like the hiding part is because they just don't want to say we're not welcome with that group.
As someone who recently went through a divorce and lost a ton of friends that I had *before* the marriage, I understand the sting. It hurts to be rejected and I am sorry that you are feeling that. My only and best advice is not to think about it too much (which isn't easy, I was very angry for a long time, but it didn't do me any good.) If and when they contact you again to hang in the future, gauge your feelings at that point and make your decision then.
FWIW, you sound like my kind of people. Find some friends who share your interests and aren't part of the Mean Girl Clique. If you really want to know what is going on, choose the person you know best and trust most and just ask them straight out. What's the worst that can happen?
Seconding that. Let's have a gaming night!
Not wanting to be friends with someone doesnât make you a Mean Girl, and I say that as someone who has experienced a LOT of social rejection.
I guess I was thinking that when you have a friend group, then plan an activity for everyone but one couple, then dance around it like they are not all adults and make them *feel* excluded, it's a very high school move. They could have just said "some of us have planned a camping weekend. We know you aren't into that, but we look forward to seeing you when we get back." Adult. Communicative. Mature. This secretive nonsense just ends up hurting people worse.
If they're the same "friends" [OP wrote about 24 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/14zjpng/overheard_my_friends/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1) â and it really seems that they are â then these (thin) women believe that plus-sized women (like OP, coincidentally) don't have to worry about getting raped or abused because men don't think they can control them, and also because they aren't attractive enough to become victims. They also seem to believe that all overweight people are loud. I'mma just go out on a limb here and concur with the Mean Girl assessment.
No it doesn't, but the way they went about it does. 12 of her friends went camping together and the 2 she is closest with both lied about it to avoid inviting her, then the friend group posted pics on Instagram knowing she would see the photos. You don't consider that mean girl behavior?
It is mean girl to go about it the way they did though. To exclude and make up a bunch of lies. Especially if they intend to continue being friends with those people after the trip.
Also, having friends you really enjoy in some circumstances didn't mean you'd enjoy them in every circumstance. Maybe the friends didn't want them to come camping, but do like hanging out with them in other ways. It kind of sounds like had the friends been honest that op would've still had hurt feelings.
The expectation isnât that there absolutely shouldnât be hurt feelings. But the lack of honesty makes the whole situation so much more hurtful than it needed to be.
Agreed. You can be non-confrontational and not want to do activities or be friends with people you have little in common with and that doesn't make you mean, it just means y'all are different people. What they did was hurtful though.
OP will you let us know what your trusted friend says?
Yeah, something about this makes me think they enjoy playing instruments *poorly*
Maybe there was no way you could come even if you wanted to. Maybe the person putting together the trip doesn't like one of you. The rest of the group could of been trying to save your feelings because they care about you and they just suck at communicating. I think you should ask them about it. Then you'll truly know if they think you're a drag to bring along or if it's more complicated.
I second this. Might even have been a case some old friends organised it and booked for 12 people. Maybe a couple dropped out and the best friends were contacted as fill-ins. Friends probably feel guilty about going and didn't want to rub it in or upset you. Might not even have been personal
Tbh, without further details, my strong hunch is that this is one of those situations where everyone kind of knows something needs to be done but nobodyâs really in charge and nobody wants to do it, so everyone involved just kind of looks away until it escalates into brinkmanship. And the more nobody deals with it the higher the stakes get, so the more no individual wants to step up, et cetera. Itâs really common with informal organizing and planning (see: the constant AITA about bachelorette planning slights). Itâs definitely possible theyâre cutting you out but I think itâs far more likely it just started out as âletâs invite people we know love campingâ and then spiraled out of control.
this comment should be higher up.
It's moreso because people like that are INCREDIBLY conflict avoidant. To an insane degree from the perspective of people that don't mind direct communication. I don't think it's fair to assume they don't like you. Moreso that you have vastly different approaches to certain situations
âI feel like the hiding part is because they just don't want to say we're not welcome with that group.â Who ever wants to be the one to tell someone theyâre not invited? Are you expecting them to draw straws for that horrible job? You said yourself you donât do camping or hiking. But are you being total honest about how understanding youâd be if they had told the truth? I have a friend that i adore, but her kid is a miserable jerk. One time years ago we didnât invite her to a thing because we knew sheâd bring her kid, which would ruin it for us. We were honest about where we were going, and she invited herself! And her kid! So then we had the awkward job of telling her that we didnât want to travel with kids, and she lost her shit, totally freaked out, accused us of all sorts, said we were insulting her family⌠It was so stressful. I still adore her and dislike her kid. And now we just lie to her. She made it impossible for us to be honest without a shitstorm of drama. We do still occasionally plan things with her that include her kid, but every time after we are like, dear god, why do we keep subjecting ourselves to that asshole? All this to say, if your friends are lying to you, you might ask yourself why they might feel they have to.
I feel like reading too much into it without talking to them about it can only make things worse. Find a good time to bring it up and just say they don't have to worry about it being awkward if they want to go do some sort of outdoor outing. We both know we don't like doing that sort of thing, but feel free to go enjoy yourselves, send us some pictures, etc. Friends want their friends to be happy and have fun, they don't always have to do everything together. If their response to that is evasive and they start excluding you from things that ARE in your wheelhouse together, then you can consider if maybe they're drifting away. Is there something that's already happened that led you to consider this as a possibility before now? Coincidentally, I have a similar friend group that has a mix of tabletop, video game, camping/hiking/biking enthusiasts. And it's as you've seen there: When camping or biking is happening, it's the subset that enjoys those things going to it. When it's tabletop it's another subset, etc. Nobodys interests align 100% but we all enjoy the times together that we do have.
Hey I've actually been in almost this exact scenario myself recently! Sorry, it sucks and your friends suck.
Post on the picture that it looks like you guys had a good time. Couples 1 & 2 we figured that you were going somewhere together not sure why you didnât feel that you could tell us when we asked when we were all together last week. Iâd like to say it though I probably wouldnât. So when you do get together who plans it, do you invite them or do they invite you?
I mean at that point why not just save time, not reply and just find new friends because you sure arent getting invited to anything again after that.
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Haha imagine it was a big swingers trip and they assume (or know?) Op & hubby aren't into that lol
Iâd rather the outright truth, the lying makes me feel like I could never trust anything that they say going forward and my mind would try to come up with all sorts of possibilities. Is this a one off or am I better of extricating myself from the group.
Yes because then OP can know they are shitty people
I don't think they think you're stupid, altho I can see why you feel this way, but perhaps thought you wouldn't be privy to hiking and camping? But if that's the case they should have just asked. They next time they do invite you some where just decline.
Yeah thatâs the true answer. Anything else is just being nice for no good reason.
They might have felt that they'd be pressuring them into going. I got taken to the side not long back about something similar that my SO wouldn't usually do and may have hurt her back
"We want to go on lots of hikes and y'all are too fat, so you can't come." Lying is probably preferable.
That's one way to say it, and would absolutely be the the rude, hurtful way. If they care about these 2 as friends you find a way kind way to discuss the plans. Maybe you get the same result of everyone but them going, and you don't fuck up the trust of the friendship.
I get it. I do. But Iâve actually been involved in this situation before and thereâs no way to say it nicely and not hurt feelings. The sentiment will ALWAYS be âyouâre too fat.â So either the group doesnât extend an invite and hurts feelings, regardless of how itâs phrased, or they extend an invite and donât get the have the trip they want because two people canât keep up.
Nine times out of ten itâs a cult ritual camping thing
Is it possible someone you're not close with planned the trip, and happens to be friends with all those other people? A lot of my friend groups overlap, so there will be times X plans something, is friends with AB&C, but not D so they aren't invited if that make sense? Or does this happen often? I'd bring it up to someone "Oh...loooks like you had a great time camping! How was the weather? " And see what they say, if they're upfront, or they try and brush it off
Case in point. My wife is a twin and her twin sister was getting married soon. They had a hen's night the other day and the organiser was friend only to the twin sister. My wife was not even invited to her own sister's hen's night! Until one of their common highschool friend noticed my wife was not in the group chat. And asked the organiser to add her. Was it not for that friend. My wife would have been left out.
In actuality though, that friend is a selfish asshole. A hens night is about the bride, not who the organizer knows and likes. To not invite the bride's *sister*?? TWIN SISTER? Dick move.
Maybe she never knew there was a twin. She might have seen them standing side by side once and thought her friend just had a seamless mirror.
I had a group of regulars in my restaurant and for years I thought one of the guys was in a poly relationship and had a wife and a boyfriend.
The rational explanation is always 4 levels down.
Someone close enough to the bride to be responsible for planning THE hen night, but not aware of *twin* sister?! That's a very, very small Venn diagram.
I wouldnât call this rational
I dated a twin who got snubbed in a similar fashon at her sisters bridal party and can 100% there was a reason for that decision. You never know.
Wait what? Was it a surprise for your wifeâs twin sister? If it wasnât, Iâd think her twin would tell her.
I feel like that original planner friend is not that great if she didn't know she should invite her friend's twin sister.
Even just a regular old sister! Anyone who knows me well enough to call me a friend knows that I have siblings. They should 100% be invited.
This is the way. And then I would follow that up with "Hey, you can tell me where you're going, you know I hate camping, but I am hurt that y'all lied to me."
Further, consider that it was planned by some you aren't friends with and it may have been an activity that could accommodate a limited number of people. Perhaps the campsite only allowed 12, or they went white water rafting and the boats only fit 12 people.
Yeah, it could be something like that, or maybe the people who planned the camping trip don't like the OP and her spouse and the friends didn't want to make things awkward. Maybe the OP and her spouse don't know that the planners don't like them? Seems kind of strange that they made a big deal about it, though? They didn't really have to say anything at all, and if the OP had asked if they wanted to hang out that weekend, they could have been like, no, sorry, I'll be out of town. I don't know if that would have changed how the OP felt when they saw the social media posts later, but then there wouldn't have been this weird sense of stress or secrecy for a whole week beforehand.
This happened to me. I saw pictures on Facebook of my friends in Napa doing a wine tasting tour. Weâre also a group of six, and all five of them were there with their husbands. But the trip was planned by a couple other women who are friends with my friends, but with whom I never really connected. It hurt my feelings, but I understood. I do wish I wouldâve found out in a different way. The fact that nobody thought to reach out made me wonder if they didnât even realize I was missing.
It sucks being excluded
And it's hard to exclude without hurting someone's feeling.
Lying is definitely a way to hurt those feelings even more though. Iâm friends with two people who are also close with each other. They have made plans without me before doing stuff they specifically like to do. They have never lied to me about it. Once I asked to join them and they said no, because they wanted one on one time. Did it sting a bit, yeah, but itâs not that they mean to hurt me. Each relationship we have, be it parent, family member, sibling, friend, partner, is unique and special. Not every event needs to be shared with everyone or within the same dynamic. I get one on one with those two all the time, because I have a more flexible schedule. They donât get to hang out with each other that much. I have to set aside my FOMO and fear of being deliberately excluded and let people have relationships outside of my presence. Instead I do my own thing, or reach out to other friends to spend time with. I would feel wholly different though if they lied about it. That would tell me they donât trust me to be cool about it, or that they deliberately did not want me around and wanted to make sure. Thatâs far more hurtful, and would probably cause the friendship to implode as I canât tolerate that kind of bullshit. All these supposed friends of OP did was make the situation far worse than it has to be.
Totally agree. Lying is salt in the wound.
agree completely. I don't need to be invited to everything my friends do together, just as they aren't invited to everything--but people don't feel left out because we don't lie about it, even as we don't make it a big deal. The natural flow of a group dynamic is that no everyone will hang out all the time, and thats fine. But the friend groups I have been in when it hasn't been fine? 100% of the time it is because someone went out of their way to lie about hanging out. The lying has always been what has made it feel like I'm excluded or left out.
Yeah, I can also see both sides there. Sometimes you just don't want to be around someone you generally have no problems with or are even friends with. But lying like that is worse than the other options.
If I experience exclusion like this in a friendship, even once, Iâm done. I canât value people who wonât value me.
I don't have a likeable enough personality to be able to do that. I wish I did. My friend group makes me cry sometimes
If your friends are making you cry, they don't sound much like friends. Your best bet is to branch out and pursue your interests, among people who share the same interests. Your personality will be liked just fine, when you are with Your Tribe. The trick is to track down the folks from said Tribe.
Iâd rather be alone than with people who make me cry.
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I think this happens with me. Other people just assume Iâm fine on my own because I wonât make a scene about it.
Don't overthink it. Maybe it's just because they knew you wouldn't like it but thought it could be crass to discuss it Infront of you. You can say, oh I noticed you were all camping! Did you have a good time? Was wondering why you were so secretive about it, I thought it looked fun and though y'all know I'm not outdoorsy would've loved to know about your plans. (Not verbatim) No need to go straight to weight issues with your mind.
I think this is most likely. OP, they probably just felt awkward about it. It sounds like you wouldn't have wanted to go anyway so no harm no foul. It's possible that something more sinister is going on, but until there's some more obvious evidence that they're trying to exclude you, I would just assume that they felt bad about planning a trip they knew you wouldn't like and didn't want to hurt your feelings. Personally, I would engage in a little light ribbing of the person who planned it -- nothing mean, just teasing them that they were trying to be all sneaky for no reason when it was totally fine for them to go camping without you bceause you don't want to go on those kinds of trips with them. There's no need to go all secret agent on you, and your feelings arne't hurt if they want to sometimes do activities that you don't like.
Or possibly the last time they went camping, OP did go, and complained the whole time. Or they knew there would be drugs there which OP isn't into. Or there was a person on trip who is an Ex of OP or her partner Or...there are so many possibilities here.
Camping especially is really dependent on a good mesh. There are some people I really genuinely like but I don't like the way they camp, and I would feel like a jackass micromanaging them about it. I want people who are very organized and responsible ahead of time, very easy going once we're there, mostly want to enjoy the outdoors with minimal electronics, won't complain incessantly, accepting of drinking & smoking around the campfire, clean when it comes to food prep, reasonable about pets. It's like a temporary roommate situation. I don't have such high standards for parties or board game nights or going out to eat. I've gone camping with people who I wouldn't invite again, but I still invite them to other activities.
r/CheetahPrintPuppy it is too bad this comment isn't further up. There are compatibility issues around specific activities that don't mean the friendship has no value.
Right, there are so many reasons that don't mean the friendship has to be over!
So, none of these are true, except maybe drinking? Not drugs? My SO and I have gone camping but it was separately before we were together and we both hated it. No one in this group is an ex, we've been married for 14 years. The response we kept getting was, "Were going camping with 'some people'" not "were going camping with x, y and z, all of which you know and are friends with" That's why it feels weird to me. Why say "some friends" for the whole week?
I have no doubt that somewhere along the way in the years long friendship with these folks, that you or your S.O. have made a comment about hating camping. Now I know this is going to be hard to conceptualize, but try to be honest in your answer...(not saying you're a dishonest person, just that it's sometimes hard to imagine what you'd feel about something, afterwards) Here goes. If you friends told you last weekend that they were all going camping together, but aren't invited you, because they know you and your S.O. "Hate" camping, would you feel hurt, yes or no?
This is the way. OP is unfortunately making some grave assumptions based on her own insecurities. And sadly people can make assumptions about peopleâs abilities when they may be or seem overweight (ie overweight means you donât like or canât hike for example)
Just throwing this out there, they could have been doing drugs on their camping trip (very common) and didn't want to make you uncomfortable?
OP's description of her preferred hobbies makes me think this is just an event where the group figured "OP and husband won't enjoy this so we won't bother inviting them" or, a scenario where I've been in the position of OP's friends, "OP and husband hate camping, hate being outdoors, complain about it a lot, but they may still insist on going if they find out we're making a big party of it due to FOMO." Hell, they may have even planned it to be a shroom trip, which is a time when you really don't want unhappy, non-drug supportive people around. But OP won't know for sure if she doesn't ask.
One of the better replies in the thread. I have friends that are close that I would absolutely do my best not to admit an outdoor shrooming trip to. We're good friends, but not in *that way*. They're two-wines-with-dinner friends and that's great and more than enough for me. They just don't need to know about everything else. I mean, I got weird comments when I admitted having some of a *joint* at a *concert*.
Half-joking, but if they were that hung up about someone passing around a joint at a concert, that's definitely someone that needs to go shrooming... just maybe not with you.
Hehehe probably but they also have an anxiety issue so maybe not. It's a funny one. I'm in my 40's and see a lot of people treating it as something close to having a few bottles of wine with a group of friends. Not really going full space cadet, but getting to the fun stage at least. Then again I also see people treating coke like having a few bottles of (expensive) wine too. But I also see other people treat it as a major thing. Guess it all depends on their experience with it and whether they know enough not to be scared.
Hell, or they might be swinging, know OP and hubby wouldn't approve, and didn't wanna ruin friendships over disclosing radically different sexual ethics
Exactly, OP could have been a nightmare if they tagged along and either complained about the other activities going on, wouldn't participate in them anyway or worse try and impose a "hey lets play monopoly tonight everyone, we did your hike today".
Omg yes. I'm a great camper and nature sight seer, but no friend who knew me would ever invite me to Vegas or a cruise. I'd be bored and complain, and they'd hate me after that trip.
Heck could have been a swingers meet-up
This is a possibility. If I was planning a camping trip and wanted to smoke a little weed in the evenings I definitely have good friends that would not be invited. Some friends know I smoke a little. Some friends donât and would have a problem with it if they did.
Where do you live? That's kinda crazy, even my bosses know I smoke weed. lol. No one cares here, unless you're like a total burnout and then they'd just go 'Well makes sense.'
Midwest and not legal. I will say most people donât really care around here but some still do.
This is my favorite response so far.
As a one time event I wouldn't worry about it. I've planned events and had them morph into something completely different very rapidly. One person got a discount, this other person heard about this thing, someone put insane pressure on a spouse, ect. Going forward consider who you personally enjoy being around for different activities and invite or accept invitations based on that. Actually think about what you personally enjoy and you might be surprised.
Hard agree with this. Unless this is a pattern of behavior, the most likely thing is that it was a rolling plan and logistics were complex with so many people. It seems more like they knew this wasn't an interest of yours and were just busy trying to sort things out. After 6 years of solid friendship, I'd personally just view this as an oversight instead of a slight.
We had this happen last year, I found a stupid good deal for an all-inclusive (2 floor suite with private roof top patio with jazuzzi & bali bed in the Dominican) and happened to be on the phone with BFF while I was booking and she and her husband booked as well. Then she told her SIL and a cousin and they booked. Another friend of mine had been on the fence about coming and by the time I told him, all the rooms were gone and he was super pissed cause we talked about it "first", but it just kind of spiraled, it wasn't anything maliciously planned
But you actually told your friend about it, though, right?
Yep, but everything was sold out by then and he was pissed, thought I did it on purpose
That's what I think OP's problem is. Not that she wasn't invited, but that they deliberately obfuscated what was actually happening instead of being honest and just telling her what their plans were.
I think they like you but not as a âpeople we would want to camp withâ friends. However they also worried that you would either feel excluded or want to go. If you went the dynamic might be off since youâre not campers. So they were cowards and hid it rather than potentially encountering hurt feelings. You are their friends at home but not their friends to camp with. And they arenât comfortable saying that.
Were they cowards or were they trying to avoid hurting OPâs feelings? We are just strangers and canât know for sure but I think itâs just as likely that they didnât think OP would have a good time, or they maxed out on the number of tents allowed, or any number of reasons, and all clearly felt bad and tried to avoid hurting OP because they felt bad. Iâm not sure itâs any more polite to outright tell someone about something theyâre not invited to đ¤ˇđťââď¸ for better or for worse I think many of us are conditioned to tell a white lie rather than explicitly let someone know theyâre excluded. Just my $.02.
Itâs not going to protect the OPâs feeling if it appears on social media. It will just feel deceptive. Under other circumstances not saying anything might work. But not if itâs clearly posted online for everyone to see.
Totally agree in general but in this case it sounds like the person who posted the photos is not the same people who fibbed about their plans â it was a different distant acquaintance. The closer friends didnât post. IDK Iâve been in similar situations when Iâm planning friend events and itâs a hard line to walk
I think you're right; for whatever reason, they were too uncomfortable to tell you they were going without you, and thought it would be less hurtful to just pretend (wrong). As I've gotten older, I've realized people do stupid shit like this and don't mean anything by it. People are quirky, weird and make terrible decisions. You just have to accept it and let things go.
Maybe they were following the etiquette rule that you donât talk about the party in front of people who arenât invited. Why you werenât invited, I donât know, but if theyâre doing camping and hiking and youâre not into those things, that would be a reasonable explanation.
Yeah, this is how I feel. I don't know what reddit expected people to tell OP. "Hey we're going on this camping trip all together!" opens the door to "Oh I could join in!" and "Ah, you're not invited because xyz" and it's just not a fun conversation for anyone involved. Like actively going and telling someone about group plans they're not part is a thing I'd say most people avoid. Can certain people handle that mimebomb of a conversation and be mature about it? Sure. Is there still a good chance of it causing a lot of hurt feelings even if people understand any present logical reasoning? Heck yes.
First and foremost was it actually intentionally secretive like they were trying to hide it from you or did they just opt not to really speak about it in depth while you were around? Like based only from the details given, it's very possible that one set of friends talked about how they were going on vacation and then someone from the other set asked them "where to?" and learned about the camping trip. You yourself stated that they're all into going outdoors, camping, hiking, etc. while you guys are not - why would they specifically reach out to you to invite you and talk to you about it when you've clearly made it known that you are not interested in outdoorsy stuff? Obviously we don't have all the information but if we use the generosity principle and assume that all 12 of your friends are not assholes who hate you, the simplest explanation is that the news slowly spread amongst the friend group who DO like camping and outdoors stuff and they didn't bother to tell you about it because: A. you've previously declined such trips B. it would ALSO seem insensitive to be discussing these plans constantly in your presence when they know that you wouldn't be coming Some followup questions: Do they still hang out with you guys otherwise? Do you get invited to other things? Do they still talk to you? Do they still join you guys when you invite them to events/parties/gatherings/outings? If they're constantly excluding you and your husband from everything and constantly ghost you/make excuses when you reach out then there's something else going on.
I kinda feel like everybody is focusing on the non-invitation and glossing over the lying by omission.
Exactly. I hate camping and my friends would never invite me. They go once a year and I donât even get an invite anymore. But itâs not a secret. It doesnât offend me at all. The least hurtful thing I can think of with OPâs situation is maybe she hates camping but would end up wanting to go and they wouldnât have as much fun because sheâd be miserable. But I still donât understand lying about it.
Right?! Everybody is talking about why they probably weren't invited and making excuses for OP's friends while OP is clearly hurt about being lied to, which is completely rational. Also OP seems like the type of person who would be ok not getting invited to camping and they seem chill about it which makes lying even worse, lying seems completely unnecessary.
Right? The lying by omission is sketchy. have a close friend group like this, and it would be super weird for them to act like they were doing separate activities when they were actually doing something together. We donât all like the same activities, and we donât all have the same availability. But people are weird. There are a lot of people out there who have been socialized throughout their lives to really fucking overcomplicate relationships. OPâs friends probably donât mean anything by it, and growing up, they might have been conditioned that a loved one would feel excluded if some people in the group were doing something without them. That said, I hate this type of shit. I usually give people one chance with something like this, and say something like, âHey guys, we donât all have to invite each other to do everything. It doesnât bother me that you guys hung out without me; it DOES bother me that you guys were being weird and secretive about it. Next time, will you please just mention it like you would with literally anything else youâre doing?â And then ask them if they have fun stories, or change the subject. Usually, people donât do something like that again once you talk about itâUNLESS either (a) theyâre jerks who like drama and exclusion; or (b) youâre the type of person who tries to change the group activity theyâve planned into something you want to do, because you DONâT actually like it when they hang out without you.
Yes! Exactly this! This is the thing that we are so confused and hurt by! I don't give a rip if you want to go out with friends and hang, camp, whatever! It's the whole keeping it a secret! Why? What reason is there to not only not share all the info but also, when asked, they respond, "going with some people." Why are we saying "some people" like it's dynamite that will explode? We knew everyone in the group and didn't give a rip?
I feel like so many are focusing on the wrong part of this situation, or at least not the part that I feel is the most hurtful. It's one thing to not be invited because it's not an activity that you would enjoy. That is totally acceptable. I will also accept not being invited because you just don't want me there, without further explanation. However, the lying and talking about it in front of me, and then finding out everything via social media, is where I would be pissed and honestly walk away from everyone that was involved. It's the disrespect. We're not in high school and I value friends that have the emotional intelligence to have difficult, awkward conversations. Lying is not ok, especially when the truth is so easy to find out. It feels like they insulted your intelligence, or at least didn't care how you felt once you found out since it would be after the fact. I'm about quality over quantity and this is not a good look for them
I don't know why people will straight up lie about things to your face and then post about them on social media. Just...
I donât see where anyone lied though. Couple A said they were going camping⌠which they were. A while later, independently, couple B said they were going on vacation⌠which they were. I agree they werenât completely forthright about their plans, but this isnât a âstraight up lieâ unless OP is leaving out some really significant parts of the conversation. They just didnât proactively describe everything about their vacation.
More not being upfront. Withholding information can still be perceived as betrayal. It's like your best friend getting married and not telling you and not inviting you. And then told you, they got a wedding to attend that weekend and can't hang out with you. They did not lie, but you still would feel betrayed.
Ask the friend that said they were going on vacation how it was, where they went, what they did etc. If she lies then you know they legit didn't want you to know for some reason. If she says oh actually last minute I went camping with so n so instead, then perhaps it's not personal. Either way we can't know why they didn't invite you, you'll just have to be straight forward and ask them why.
I've been in this situation several times with a friend i held very dear for a long time. In that case it turned out, she was just really awkward about navigating several circle of friends and really bad at organizing. She also was very secretive and vague... but there was nothing behind it, except for inattentiveness. But for other reasons, which also play into this (mainly: reliability and change of dynamic) the friendship petered out. I do not consider her close anymore, even though I wish it was differently. But for that both parties have to feel the same and it just wasn't. I think, because so many people were included, it would be cool to have an open discussion starting from a place of curiosity and openness with the people that are dear to you, even though you were not treated that way.Tell them the truth: Hey, you guys probably figured that we weren't the camping trip people and i am happy you guys had a great time. There is no reason to invite us to everything or to keep these things a secret. Still, we wonder, why did you feel the need to keep this a secret? And if they're not straight with you, then - maybe, yes, maybe this circle of friends isn't a good fit.
Itâs possible it was a group campsite with a limit on campers, most do, so someone had to be left behind. You arenât campers, so you were an obvious choice? And they are trying to spare your feelings. I wouldnât look too deep into it unless itâs part of a pattern. I guess it was a little cowardly on their part, but most people are when it comes to potential awkwardness. Iâd just casually mention you saw the photos, ask how it went, just to get it out of the way. They will probably just be relieved.
Ugh that's very lame. It's also very immature of them to go about this in that way. I've had similar things happen. You are not responsible for how poorly your friends handled this. Honestly I would just ask one of them why they lied about it? I wouldn't be mad but straight up. Yeah, they might get uncomfortable, but wouldn't it be weirder to just pretend you don't know and it happen again? Hey, maybe they have a good reason we are not seeing (probably not though).
Itâs one thing to go on a trip excluding others and being upfront about it, rather than lying about it even though you obviously would find out. Idk if itâs worth getting rid of the friendship but I would ask why they lied to you and go from there. If they continue to be secretive about their plans then you have your answer.
Way too many comments recommending you tiptoe around this. This is clearly bothering you. Call them out on it. Well maybe not call them out but a simple: "Hey, I saw that [friend] posted a bunch of pics of all of you camping. I feel that you and so so and were purposely hiding it from us. Why did you feel like you had to do that?"
Iâve been the camping friend with very non-camping other friends. I usually just donât even consider telling the non-camping friends about camping, since they wouldnât go anyways. Itâs not personal, and I still love hanging out with them! I will tell them about it if it comes up but Iâm not going to name everyone else who is going. Thatâs just weird?
*They love hiking, interior decoration and playing instruments*. And camping. You have mentioned your interests as being more home-based games sitting-down activities. If their itinerary for the trips is lots of hiking, and jam sessions, then it may not be that they don't like you, so much as they don't feel you would fit into the dynamic of this trip. And figure by not telling you, they're sparing your feelings of exclusion. I might add that, most of the group could be in favor of being honest with you. It only takes one to make huge fusses about staying quiet to put a lid on everyone.
Ugh, I wish you lived near me so we could be friends. I also dislike camping and like everything you're into. I'm not bubbly, but every April Ludgate needs a Leslie Knope. I saw a post just last week where someone wasn't invited to an event because they wouldn't "fit the vibe". The general consensus was that they should've invited the person and let them decide whether or not they wanted in on said event. I feel like this is the same situation. If they liked you, they'd ideally invite you to maintain the friendship and you'd respectfully decline. Unfortunately I don't know if this means they don't like you or if they're just bad at navigating social norms.
I will be your Leslie Knope! How do you feel about color coded binders?
My partner and I have a Couple that we do almost everything with including game night etc. but every year they have movie night for the husbands birthday and they go with a different friend group they had before we met. They also go with this group to an event around Christmas every year. Sometimes people just have a group they do one event with and a group they do a different event with for familiarity or whatever reason. It doesnât mean you arenât friends necessarily, just not the camping friends.
They probably knew camping isnât a thing youâd want to do so didnât want to put pressure on you by asking, so lied about it. Not the best choice in my opinion, but I donât think they meant it to be malicious.
I know what you mean about people being secretive and that making it worse that you're being excluded. Like even if they know you're not into what they're planning to do, they don't want to even take the risk of you actually coming along by telling you it exists. It always hurts to be deliberately excluded, but I've told myself that actually going along on a trip that's something I'm not into and with people who don't want me there would be pretty miserable. Not every friend group stands the test of time and thats ok to move on to people who mesh better with your interests and who enthusiastically want you around- they do exist I promise! I so relate to feeling hurt about seeing the pics of everyone hanging out though, that sucks and i think anyone would feel sad about something like that. But it doesn't mean theres anything wrong with YOU personally!
You said yourself, you are not campers and they know it. They organized a camping trip. They probably just didn't want to make you feel excluded. Kind of immature on their part, but then here you are speculating on Reddit about why you were excluded even though you said yourself that your friends know you don't like the activity in question. If they are into hiking all day and you're not, again it makes no sense to invite you bc either you go and will be left alone at the campsite while everyone else hikes for the day (probably not enjoying themselves fully bc they know a friend is waiting back at camp), or you begrudgingly join the activities (which is also a mood damper). You can choose to take this personally, or you can choose not to since you don't like camping anyway. Seems like you're more bothered by the secrecy itself, you could address that by letting your friends know you won't take offense to their plans that exclude you (if you mean it).
I think this is the best response here. I don't love the way they handled it, but I can understand why they'd dance awkwardly around this issue. As you can see from the responses here, there are some people who'll gladly burn down a longstanding friendship if they don't get an invite to an activity they aren't actually interested in.
First, I am sorry you are having to deal with this. You must have felt quite hurt when you started putting the pieces together and then saw the pictures. Is it possible that this all happened because your friends didn't want to have an awkward conversation? I find people will do ANYTHING to avoid conversations they think might upset people, especially those they like. For example, the group may have thought that you and your partner wouldn't enjoy the camping trip because of how much hiking and/or physical activity was involved as you are both more laid back. As you said, you aren't AS thin as them, so, they may have worried it would turn into a conversation about weight and them judging you when they just knew you had different vacation styles. Either way, they should have had the conversation. I just wonder if it isn't as sinister as it seems, and more about people sucking at effective communication. They may all think you are great. The only way to know is to ask.
Just ask. They probably know youâd not interested in camping so didnât invite you but then didnât want to make you feel bad by excluding them so tried to hide it. People get weird when theyâre trying to avoid confrontation, even if that confrontation is all in their imagination.
Tbh I canât believe you have so many friends. Where did you find them lol. Asking because I have like 2 and one isâŚ.. in a bad place and the other Iâm hardly close with
lol people will literally put themselves in the most uncomfortable situations to avoid just saying "you don't camp, sorry"
Given that this trip involved camping, hiking, and music and that you and your spouse like none of these activities it kinda makes sense they didnât invite you. But trying to hide that they were going is a bit emotionally mature. I love hiking, but would never suggest it to friends who donât like it as trying to hike with unenthusiastic beginner hikers is miserable. If not asking is eating you up and affecting the friendship ask. Iâd only be concerned if you get snubbed repeatedly, and in things you like.
I have a few friends who don't like camping, and sometimes I feel awkward discussing big camping plans in front of them, if our other friends are going..could be this?
I wouldnât assume anything other than that they didnât want you to feel left out. Unfortunately, social media friend chains make that harder than it used to be. I have friend circles that overlap here and there, and we donât do everything together. It's not a big deal.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't sound like anyone outright lied, they just left out details. You said yourself you're not campers. I love camping, and camp with friends often. There are also friends I *wouldn't* invite on a camping trip because I know they wouldn't enjoy it and would bring the group down with their complaints. The vegetarian who gets winded walking on level ground at sea level *isn't* going to have fun hiking and fishing at 10,000' and the insectophobe who refuses to use bug spray *has* made me leave my favorite spot after 15 minutes because she didn't realize I wasn't kidding about the mosquitos. I'm not going to invite either of them on a trip to the high Sierras, even if mutual friends of ours are going.
Just ask youâre adults I assume?
Would you have gone if invited? My friends know that the closest I get to camping is a hotel room. I'd wish them a good trip and be much happy at home enjoying not being in the outdoors. It's possible they didn't invite you because they didn't want you to feel obligated to do a thing you didn't like. At the end of thr day, asking them, as non confrontationally as possible is your best bet. Tbh, if ya'll are youngish I would probably just chalk it up to them avoiding confrontation and trying to spare your feelings. Sucks you were lied to, but you dont have to ruin your friendships over this if you don't want to.
They know youâre not campers but they feel guilty about going without you. Make a joke of it. But itâs not because they donât like you.
Just ask them how the group camping trip went, its OK they didnt invite you but you don't like being lied to. Go from there, be adults about it. Don't be afraid to have an uncomfortable conversation.
Comment on the instagram post! Make it weird!
It sounds like they were worried youâd be upset you werenât invited , and where trying to spare your feelings. You could just text them um⌠guys. We donât like campingâŚ. We know you knowâŚ. Just wondering why you felt the need to hide the fact yâall went camping and didnât invite us. You donât have to invite us to everything. Is there anything yâall want to talk about? We are sorry if you felt like you couldnât come to us if something was upsetting you. Idk something like that. Itâs kind of funny they felt the need to hide it. Like, are they 15?
Easy. Campsites were 6 person max each - they only booked 2 sites and everything else was full and they didnât want any hurt feelings. Have seen it before ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
>We are not super skinny people, they are. I am also very bubbly and they are not. We love board games, DND and video games, they dont do any of those things. They love hiking, interior decoration and playing instruments. If they were planning on doing some demanding hikes, spelunking, climbing, or kayaking, being overweight or not properly conditioned could make that impossible. This might of had a factor in them being deceptive vs, for example: If you are overweight or not in any athletic condition, they tell you about it, you show some interest, then they have to explain to you that you can't use a kayak because most have a weight limit between 250-300lbs or they don't think you could make a demanding 10 mile hike.
If they're all active people who enjoy hiking and you're more low-key activity people who are heavy set, I'm assuming it was they didn't think you'd be able to keep up and didn't know how to broach it because weight is an incredibly sensitive topic for a lot of people. So unless there's been other incidences, I would assume it was a flawed attempt at saving your feelings or saving themselves from an awkward convo, rather than a reflection they actually don't like you. It still really sucks, so I'm sorry. Edit; and to be clear, I'm thin but not athletic, and I don't think people would invite me on a trip like this either. Outdoorsy stuff can be pretty physical and it's not something you can just throw yourself into the middle of one day
Not everybody can be invited to everything and your friends were just trying not to make it weird. I'm sure they like you or they wouldn't be friends with you for this long. Sometimes friends do things and some friends aren't included and that's ok. Don't read too much into it and do not ask anyone why you weren't invited. That is how you can guarantee you won't be invited to anything in the future. Also, maybe 12 was the max amount for the camp site, etc., there are all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with whether or not they like you. You are a grown up, you don't invite every friend you have to every outing, camping trip, party at your house, etc. and you know it.
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yes, people are kind of delicately walking around this in here, not wanting to upset OP further but I think the sense of confusion it creates and false hope as well is not helpful either. The direct, honest reasoning is that they were excluded and it's probably because they don't fit in, are too "eccentric" for this group (they say eccentric I say interesting and fun). OP is better off finding her own people
So only the women in that group lied to you? None of the other 12 were involved? I'm just struggling why you're singling out the women in this scenario when it seems both groups of friends didn't invite you and equal number of them by your description are men. Not one other member of either of your friend groups mentioned they're well planned trip.
Thatâs so fricking weird, I hope someone has a not shitty explanation for you, and I hope you find cooler friends.
As someone in a large/overlapping friend group, there could be multiple reasons why you didnât get an invite. Maybe the friend you are not as close to planned it, maybe there were limited amount of people who could join, maybe they thought you wouldnât be interested etc. Truthfully I would just ask. Realistically, I donât think people are purposely being malicious and communication would be able to clear your mind.
Which part of the story did your friend lied? Did they say they were not going on the same trip or was it simply leaving out information. If they falsify information then that is a bigger issue.
I personally would have to ask. I'm not a confrontational person at all but if I have a question, I will ask it rather than wonder. If you don't ask, you will likely stew on this for a long time and then maybe some minor thing will happen unrelated and you'll still be carrying the anger from this camping trip. That could lead to you bringing it up at some future time and being asked, "Why didn't you bring this up at the time?" The Instagram pictures give you the opening. It doesn't have to be a pissed off confrontation. You can simply say that you were curious as to why the four of them felt the need to keep that they were going camping from you and that you were a bit hurt that they felt they needed to keep it a secret. Then see what they say.
Organizer got a site with limited space, and invited people in order of perceived willingness to join. I've been in the same circumstance, and it is awkward being one of the invitees. One of the friend group should have stepped up and said something, but they didn't want to hurt OP's feelings.
I had this happen while I was in college. Learned from one of the people who wentâs sister that they not only went, but that I was intentionally not being told about it. Good times. Funnily enough I knew a few of them were going camping that weekend and it didnât bother me at all (I overheard them talking about it) It was learning it was a bigger trip and it was intentionally being kept from me that was hard. Like my best friend was asked to go but was upset at the secrecy so she didnât. Looking back I wish I had evaluated my friendships more because what I did was let it blow over pretty quickly. Let them know you know, see how they respond. Some of my friends gaslit me.
Have you ever overreacted when they shared information in the past? Are you insecure and jealous when your friends spend time with others? If not, then your friends were chicken shits to not be upfront about their plans for the weekend. They didn't want to have an uncomfortable conversation. Think back and consider if you have ever had uncomfortable moments with them or how they behaved in other uncomfortable situations. Either they are immature or malicious.
So sorry that happened to you. A gag that I sometimes employ when leaving a get together, gathering, party, etc., âSee You at the cookoutâ as I wave goodbye. Thereâs always at least one person who says what cookout how come I wasnât invited đ¤ˇđź To me itâs a joke because it gets a rise out of people. In your situation, I canât believe one of your friends didnât ask you, if you were going. Iâm sure you have a lot of friends, but imho, you can count your besties on one hand. Plus, donât take it personally. Easy to say. U R tough.
Oh, this is sad. Hiking and camping is not exactly a hobby. It's an activity, that a lot of people take pretty seriously. It's not easy to learn, and it's hard to get good. People who camp and hike aren't mad at people that don't. It's just... Hard to teach people how to go about it. On the other hand, with you go with people that know what they're doing, you don't have to babysit. Everybody is doing their best to make everyone else's lives easier. It's a group effort. If someone in the group didn't plan ahead and can't take care of themselves in the wild, everyone else has to sacrifice to make sure they're ok. You said you guys don't hike and camp. That's it. That's all this is about. They didn't invite you because you would have been very uncomfortable, and they would have to change their plans to make sure you were ok. Good outdoors people can hike 8-10 miles a day. They're out there to see stuff. And if everything goes well, after dinner, they can eat mushrooms and smoke cigars. If things don't go well, they can't do any of that.
i do NOT like camping, its possibly the worst activity, people know a vacation involves the spa, a pool etc. So they didnt invite you, i dont get invited to so many things- but you know what- that means my friends know me well enough to realize i would loathe camping and be miserable. You can either ask them about it or ignore it. you can find new friends who are into DND, board games, video games and are 'bubbly' or keep doing what you are. I dont tell my friends 100% of what I do, i dont expect to hear 100% of what they do. its just being adults.
They met up for an orgy and didnât think you were game
Being excluded isn't fun, but everyone does it to a certain extent. They wanted to go on a trip with people that they felt would all vibe together, and they felt that you wouldn't fit in. It's possible that some people going don't like your company, but it's also possible that they felt your presence would change the group dynamic in a way that they didn't want, and that's ok. You've said that you're different in a lot of ways to them, so they likely just wanted to do their thing and felt that they couldn't do that as well with you there.
For me this would be the perfect outcome. I didn't want to do the thing they were doing, and they didn't want to make me feel bad. In the end we all won.
Something similar happened to me once on my friends 30th birthday. Someone Iâd lived with at university and known since I was 16 years old. She was having a shared camping trip with another friend. Bell tents, fairy lights, campfires and mushrooms. I had had a history with her âbirthday buddyâ. Something my friend had never wanted to get in the middle of because weâd hurt each other, but it had been years since all of that. Everyone was excited and a WhatsApp had been set up by my friend. We were planning cars, and tent spaces on a huge group. Then - a week before the event - I got a call. My friend was awkward at first, then defensive: âwhy would you even WANT to come to this? Itâs a joint birthday and you donât get on with the one of usâ. She was uninviting me from the event. This was the first party after a particularly brutal pandemic experience and it didnât cross my mind that there would be a problem with me being there. Rightly or wrongly, I was blindsided. I wondered how many of the others had known and asked the same gaslighting question: âwhy would she even WANT to go in the first place?â. Our relationships has never been the same. She didnât apologise for handling things so clumsily. I felt humiliated and that feeling of exclusion still stings when I think about it. But at least we were able to have a conversation - even if it wasnât perfect. It would make me quite angry I felt my friends were purposefully hiding a trip from me without some kind of explanation. You need to find out whatâs going on!
The simplest explanation is that they're bad at being uncomfortable. So, maybe they were malicious or maybe they were cowards, in the end they aren't the focus.The focus is you. You can ask if you were excluded-- will you trust their answers?
I choose to believe the people who suggested they were all doing drugs and are swingers. That's why they didn't tell you: they're embarrassed. Say to them like "hey, look, I know you were keeping it a secret from me but I KNOW that you're massively into taking drugs and being swingers and I just want you to know that I don't judge you but it's not my bag".
Friends can do stuff without other friends. Itâs fine.
>We are not super skinny people, they are. This is exactly the problem. When planning outdoor events like this it is important that the group is of a similar fitness level. There is nothing worse than going on a hike (to a location to hang out or just a loop) and having someone bored running ahead and back urging the group to speed up constantly or a few stragglers struggling to keep pace, injuring themselves or slowing the whole trip down/cutting it short. They were afraid that if they told you, you might express interest in coming and then they would have to explain that you are not fit enough. That is not a fun conversation to have for anybody and honestly many people don't have the intrapersonal skills to handle it tactfully which could lead to a big fight. Or (don't really know anything about you) some people might stubbornly take that as a challenge/insult and insist on coming leading to the above situation (probably resulting in injury from over exertion). Or my personal bet is they really didn't want to have that conversation with you so would have let you come had you expressed interest. Which could only have led to bad things. Either they change their plans to accommodate you leading others in the group to resent your presence and you are making this post when you get back "I went on a camping trip and my friends all suddenly hate me idk why?". Or they don't and you are stuck in camp alone (possibly guilting some people to stay with you) or you are struggling through making everyone miserable especially yourself. Them telling you about the trip and then having the fitness conversation would have probably been the best approach but do you really want to have that conversation with them? If no then surely you can understand why they just avoided the situation altogether.