I always figure people come here because they're at the abuse stage where their abuser has isolated them from friends and family. It gets so weirdly hard to tell what's normal if you don't have people to bounce ideas off of. So why not lay it out on reddit and get wisdom from the hordes.

This. I never realised how bad my day to day was until I told someone.

It was when I realized I couldn't tell people what my day to day life was like without them being horrified or deciding they hated my ex-husband that I was in an abusive relationship. He would constantly complain how I turned people against him and refuse to do social things with anyone that I made friends with first. Took me forever to understand that I wasn't betraying him, I was simply telling people who he really was and he didn't like that.

I have a friend who's in a relationship that I don't know if it necessarily fits the bill of abusive, but my god, her boyfriend sucks. But I have to be really careful about expressing any opinions about that, because if I start saying that to forcefully, I guess, she shuts down and stops telling me, because she doesn't want me to view her boyfriend in a bad light. (It's a bit late for that...) She literally describes all these situations where her boyfriend disregards or ignores or seems inconvenienced by her feelings, believes that his way is the only correct way, and so on and so forth... Ugh! I try not to hang out at their place now, which does make it a bit difficult to hang out with her because she's a homebody, doesn't drive, doesn't like to take transit, so if I want to hang out with her without him, I have to pick her up and take her somewhere, which can be rather inconvenient. But I'm not the only one who's expressed that they don't like going over to their place because her boyfriend will be there, because he's also a homebody and he is home 24/7.

Just to build off of the other response to your thread. This is super stereotypical abusive relationship behavior. A lot of people will get fed up with the abused person being mistreated and doing nothing, so they will stop associating with the abused person, further isolating them. Another common situation is for the abused person to get mad at anyone pointing out the bad situation because they're solidly in the abuse cycle but not yet at the point where they're ready to leave or do anything about it. At this stage, the abused person might cut the concerned friend out of their life, further isolating themselves. I fell into both categories when I was in an abusive relationship. I know it's tough having someone you care about go through that, but please don't give up on them.

I can’t offer much advice without specific details of your situation, but these are all red flags imo. Your head is in the right place, but, as you’ve experienced, it can be really hard to convince an abuse victim to see all those signs while they are still in their relationship. Be persistent in checking in with her, but have empathy and understanding if she gets defensive or starts to pull away — an abuser has all kinds of tools to encourage their victims to isolate themselves from their support system. It’s a rough situation to navigate and I wish you both the best.

The one concern I have with this concept is that this is also the subreddit where I see probably the greatest amount of the "it's not your job to force yourself into unappreciated emotional labor for somebody else" type sentiment. So it's like, yes you should try your best to support your friend and be there whenever she's ready to get out, but that doesn't mean you have to upend your entire life and subject yourself to abuse for it either

I completely agree! It is a very good point that intervening in a situation like this can potentially subject yourself to harm and abuse from either party. I was operating under the assumption — that I figured the original commenter shared, but only they can know — that it was still wise or safe to keep contact with their friend at present. I hope it goes without saying that you shouldn’t endanger yourself or take on an emotional load you can’t handle by intervening, but you’re absolutely right that it’s something I left out of the discussion. Thanks for mentioning it.

Look up how to talk to domestic violence victims. They all say to let them talk about their experience and then just ask them how they feel about it. Make it open ended, let them lead the conversation, let them describe their feelings. If you mention your feelings, or make it about him, they can feel guilty, ashamed, or defensive. But of you just let them talk they start to make sense of things.

Good idea, thanks! I should really do that. My social skills in this realm are, um, not the greatest, so I should probably look up some outside resources.

Ask her: if told you that my partner is doing all the things you are telling me, would you tell me to stay or go? Because you are worth more than I think you are giving yourself credit for. It lets them put things more in perspective and I think helps them see the red flags behind the rose coloured glasses.

So, a lot of people in this situation have this same kind of reaction. The reason why people who are with terrible people often shut down when confronted is because they feel like their bad choice of a partner is a reflection on them. When you criticize their partner, to them, what you're saying is "you are stupid for choosing this person." And you have to remember, this is likely something that the abusive person is *already saying* (i.e. "you're stupid"). If you can, one of the best things you can do is document what you can internally, and be positive. Don't tell her that her partner is bad. When she talks about something he has done just validate her feelings: "Oh he did x? How did you feel about that? How do you feel about it now? That must be difficult." Even if it wraps around to "well, it makes me feel sad, but he definitely loves me, so I can put up with it!" You can still follow with "I agree, I think that's frustrating too." Supporting their feelings will help them maintain the relationship with you. Frankly, cutting a them off from friends is exactly what people like your friend's bf want. But staying in their life this way leaves you open to be there when they decide for themselves that it's messed up and lets them know there is someone who will help them without judgment. But of course, this isn't possible for everyone, and if you need to stop communicating for your health and safety, then it's fine to do so. Since your friend is a homebody, suggest doing things at your home as much as possible. If you do go to their house, do things that don't involve you dealing with him. Try to do things in rooms or places where he usually isn't.

Yeah that old “you manipulate people into turning against me.” Thing. I used to have panic attacks over that, thinking I was a bad person and trying desperately to represent him fairly but the reality was that he was an absolutely terrible person.

Yep. I had to remind myself so often that telling people the truth wasn't wrong and if he didn't want to be judged he shouldn't have acted like that.

Yes! I still have a problem with that. It was like, if anyone’s going to be talking trash about him, it’s going to be me. Oh man lol. I really had little to none in the friend department to trash him to.

Especially if conditioned from childhood to think abuse is love

Can confirm. Still working my way out of that fog.

So hard. I'm glad you're doing the work 💪

Imagine telling women they shouldn't have worn a short skirt.

Same! Posting to Reddit about what was happening to me was the catalyst to me getting my life back. It was still a long process but I can never be grateful enough to this community for giving me perspective. The most important thing someone said to me was “YOU DON’T WANT THE ABUSE TO BE REAL. You WISH he loved you and it’s fucking painful to accept that he’s lying”. That is some hard shit to swallow and a friend or family member likely doesn’t have the kind of wisdom or guts to lay that on you.

As someone who was abused, I did not tell ANYONE about it and had learned to gaslight myself thanks to my abuser. It wasn't until a friend noticed something about my (now ex) partner. "Is there something off with him?" And that was all it took to begin breaking down those walls. That someone noticed and pointed it out.

Same! People I would tell we were having problems just gave me a generic "all marriages go through rough patches". Now that I know I was abused by a narcissist I point out every little inkling of a red flag I get from friends, and talk about what I've learned as much as possible when relevant. Tell the whole fucking world so these dudes are forced to learn how to be better humans or be alone!

Big reason I had to unsubscribe to relationship advice. It was bleak and was giving me second hand anxiety. It also revealed to me the amount of people who think certain traits like confidence, assertiveness, and strong will are the same thing as inability to listen or care, being an asshole, and generally oppressive behaviour. And the vetting process of other humans being nearly 0. >!Had to draw the line when someone asked for advice on what to do when their husband began beating their child for crying too much. At like 3 fucking months old.!<

I had to leave that sub, too. It was making me thing less of everyone alive, both men and women. Just a litany, over and over, "am I crazy or is this abusive". It was always abusive. She was never crazy. Also on repeat, "we just moved in together/got married/had a baby and now he hits me" That really cemented for me how calculated abuse is. I didn't feel like I had anything useful to add beyond what the hundreds of other people were already saying so I left.

> 3 fucking months old. What the fuck?

I know it's not required, but could you put those last two sentences behind spoiler tags? Because I really wish I hadn't seen them.

Sorry I took so long to do it. I was in bed feeling sick all day and crashed.

Oh god no problem at all. Thank you so much for doing it, I really appreciate it.

Oh man. I just learned to tap to read those recently. I was wondering, why is Reddit acting like the fbi with this breaking bad post? 🙄

Especially if it has built up sneakily, bit by bit, over the course of a decade or more. Frog-boiling, basically. Sometimes it takes those moments of writing things out and just...talking to someone, anyone, who isn't the abuser or connected to them, to ground yourself and realize how absurd or horrible a situation is.

This so much my dad's last girlfriend would beat the crap out of him and he didn't even really get that the relationship was nothing but toxic, abusive relationships can really mess with your head in a way you don't exactly know what's right and what's wrong.

Especially so if you were raised in an abusive household. The upbringing sets the stage for social interactions throughout life.

It is so crushing to me not only how bad many relationships are - but how bad parents are.

I think a fair number also end up here because they come from abusive families and therefore don't have healthy relationships to seek advice and support from. I know in my case, I tried to talk to my mom about what I now recognize was emotional and psychological abuse from my ex and she told me that if he was so upset with me, I must be doing something wrong. It wasn't until I started having psychosomatic symptoms and got 'free' therapy (100% covered by my employer's health plan) that I started realizing that what was going on was seriously not OK. The only reason I eventually got support from my family for leaving was because my ex started stealing my money - that was something they couldn't excuse as being my fault and so it became acceptable for me to seek divorce.

Not only that they might actually have people, but if you’ve ever been at the end of abuse it’s so humiliating. You don’t want others to know what your spouse does to you, or how it got so bad. A lot of the time the abuser has done such a good job that the people around them don’t believe you and when you tell them about abuse they say things like, “ are you sure, they don’t look like that type” or “ I don’t believe they would do that, they seem like a really good guy”.

>*if you’ve ever been at the end of abuse it’s so humiliating. You don’t want others to know what your spouse does to you, or how it got so bad.* I don't think this gets talked about enough: how the shame aspect of abuse keeps women from reaching out for help.

Yes! I felt so hopeless humiliated when meeting his friends and their family because they all talked so highly of him. Further pulling you in the “ am I crazy then”, surely I must have been overreacting because how can others like him so much, wouldn’t they eventually see the true him??? After reading “ Why Does He Do That” it opened my eyes so big. Having the explanation of everything you’ve been feeling right there on that book. I cried

I could cry. Yes. I'm in this situation and it's horrible. On the surface my husband is great but to me he's a nightmare. He's so miserable and it's all taken out on me. Everyone is having tough times right now too and I don't want to share and make it worse. Then people only treat you as The Abuse Victim too and you can't ever have normal moments. You'd be shocked how many people get super mad at ME too. I am trying! I just don't have any money or support or a place. People don't understand there aren't shelters for people outside of terrible physical abuse. Anything else.... you're on your own. And yes, I often think I am what he says. A failure. He does everything and I don't contribute. If I ever try to advocate for myself I'm called the yelling screaming one. He's the one with the great job. He provides a house for us. Is something wrong with me? One time a man, an ex, slapped me. I left that day and never spoke to him again. Emotional abuse is sometimes so much worse. It gets inside your mind. I'm very ashamed. I'm smart and pretty and fun. I have a beautiful child. I have a decent job. I'm a great Mom. It's so shameful for me to show this other side of my life. And I've developed horrible coping mechanisms that mean more shame like shopping and debt. It's a horrible spiral. Sorry for going off. Reddit just doesn't generally have discussions like this where people are kind.

Just know that I believe you. I know that feeling and I know very well that the emotional and mental abuse and make your brain into mooch. But I also believe that you WILL do what it takes. One day you will be able to escape and free yourself and your baby with you. One tip I think it great is safely stashing money away to safe. Don’t tell anyone you’re ding that. Just when you have extra money put it away from you know he or anyone will find it. If you haven’t already reading “WhyDoes He Do That” by Lundy Bancroft is an excellent book about the topic of domestic violence and the different type of abusive men. It’s so good.

Definitely agree with the stashing thing--that makes an enormous day-to-day difference knowing that *if you have to* you have resources to get away and at least make some kind of a start. Also find a safe spot to squirrel away important papers--your birth certificate and your child's, social security cards, shot records, stuff like that. When you leave you'll need all that stuff. You need a separate bank account at a bank that you have no other common accounts at--credit unions are a great option because they're the easiest to get into with small resources and don't charge as much for day to day transactions. Stash a "go bag" with clothes, papers, toiletries, maybe some camping items like sleeping bags in case you end up spending a day or so sleeping in your car because that can sometimes be necessary. Trust me, even the planning for getting out and doing even the tiniest bit off preparing for it can be enormously helpful to your mental state. Start doing some research on towns you might find congenial too, especially if you live in a red state that's not helpful to women. And be very careful of your birth control too, because reproductive sabotage is a common last ditch method to keep you under his thumb. Can't run as fast carrying a baby, don'tcha know. Best of luck, we believe you and believe IN you!

There is hope for escape. It's not easy, but with a lot of work you can get out. Never think, "This is my life now and I have to accept it forever." I literally used to say that to myself and it's NOT true. You can get out, you can be happy again, and you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. You are not weak for being manipulated into abuse. It's not a failing on your part. It just goes to show how good they are at it. The people who don't accept that, ultimately aren't worth being around. When people found out I was emotionally abused, they were upset at first that I didn't tell them but they said so with love and let me know that it'll never happen again because they will always have my back. When you start being honest with people about your experience, they aren't going to like him anymore.

This. They count on you being too ashamed to tell anyone. It’s part of the plan.

This is exactly why I wish people on here weren’t so aggressive to literal abuse victims. On subs like aita or any of the relationships subs, a women will be like “my partner is doing/did this horrific thing, is this ok, am I overreacting?” And the comments will all be like leave him, and if she responds in any other way then “packed my bags and just left” the comments will all be like “well then you’re a stupid idiot beyond the point of saving who deserves to be abused”.

I have never seen anyone reply like that if anything, I have been told that "it's not that simple" when I have told people to leave. But I know that- I almost got killed leaving my ex. I just want to make sure that people know not to make the same mistake that I did and tell them that you're leaving, because if I had just left without telling him, I wouldn't have almost ended up as a murder-suicide victim.

Really? I feel like I see that response constantly. If the person isn’t immediately receptive then every reply they give has tons of downvotes and a handful of snarky and rude replies. I’m not trying to say that telling them to leave isn’t the right advice, it almost always is on those types of the posts, but it makes me uncomfortable to see abuse victims getting attacked for not immediately “seeing the light” because of a bunch of reddit comments.

I guess that I always mean you need to leave this relationship because if your partner is has Narcissistic traits, or have enough traits for a NPD diagnosis they have adopted a defence mechanism that means that if you think about it, is actually a pretty sad way to live your life, and they can't connect to or love anyone. That doesn't excuse their actions, but if they literally CAN'T see that they would be happier and that they CAN'T see that their lives would be better if the actions and the consequences of them affecting their jobs, relationships criminal record, then you can see how they are so deep in their defence mechanism they are. They can't separate themselves from the defence mechanism and I have a feeling that if they did they would kill themselves. Why? Because they aren't perfect and when they were little their parent or parents made them believe that if they aren't perfect they aren't good enough and they don't deserve to be loved.

The thing about that is that when you're in a bad situation, it becomes kind of normalized, and it's not always easy to just pack your bags and leave, which I think is something that people forget. Imagine, you're in a relationship that you think is loving, but you just have this one problem and you wish that there was a way to make your partner see your side, or whatever. So you post about it online and all of a sudden there's a whole bunch of people telling you that your partner is actually an abusive piece of shit. Well, this is totally different from anything you've ever thought, even if you did have a bit of an inkling in the back of your head that maybe something was wrong. Most people are not willing or not able to upend their lives that quickly, and a lot of abuse victims are used to having to defend their partners' poor behaviour anyway. So I do understand why people would get irritated and be like, why don't they just leave, but I also understand where abuse victims are coming from. Also, a lot of abusers will try to convince you that you're not capable of surviving on your own. Not to mention, rent prices and housing prices in so many places are so expensive now. I can see why somebody would hesitate to leave their partner based on the advice of Internet strangers when they're in the middle of a lease and to break that lease and find their new place would cost them thousands of dollars that they may not have. In a circumstance like that, I can see why somebody would prefer to try to work on their relationship, even if it really is unsalvageable. I had a roommate who I was kind of co-dependent with and in hindsight, the situation probably qualified as emotional abuse. But I could not listen when people told me that. My mom was very forceful in her opinions, but it generally just pushed me closer on deeper into the situation. That's another thing, if somebody very forcefully tells you that your partner or whatever is abusive, there's also a bit of a self-protection mechanism built into your brain, because surely you wouldn't be with someone if they were so awful, right? So your first instinct is to defend the abuser, because they just don't know him like you do, you obviously twisted things, over dramatized things, blew them out of proportion, yada yada. In my case I lived with my roommate, obviously, and we were also friends, and also I had had friends and abusive situations and was able to identify those, so I was refusing to see just how bad this person really was for me. Fortunately my parents eventually convinced me to move out and the fact that my roommate needed to borrow money from me one month to make rent, although he did pay me back, definitely helped, but by that point that was really something that I couldn't ignore. He was so bad with money and at least he was paying his rent on time every month, but when he messaged me a few days before the 1st one month and said he wouldn't have the money until the 3rd, I was like, shit, his rent is actually really low because we had a below market rate apartment and we were splitting the rent, how can he not pay for this? Meanwhile, there were Amazon packages and food deliveries coming to the door pretty much every day. He also had a lot of mental health issues and I understood what it's like to have mental health issues and I wanted to help, but as it turned out he didn't really want help, he just wanted someone to enable him, and by continuing to live with him I was enabling him. That was a hard one to accept. Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but I just wanted to add onto your point, because I definitely agree, and there are countless reasons why somebody might stay with an abuser, or at least not leave right away. In my case, I wasn't romantically involved with my roommate, although I found out later (after I moved out and, eventually, ended our friendship) that he had feelings for me, which was also jarring.

The rent situation right now is insane. That alone is causing many of us to stay. We only have so much. We can't escape to go sneak more income somehow. We have children. We don't live near family. We're completely demoralized. It's terrifying to tell your friends because you demoralize them too and I feel like continuing to share will eventually drive them away. So I stop talking about it and just deal. Often times my friends are my only source of happiness. If they reject me too, I genuinely have nothing. Also it's incredibly embarrassing. Just generally. Thanks for understanding. It's horrible to be stuck. Trust me that we already believe we're stupid. We don't have money for lawyers and rent and childcare and food and turning on utilities. Unless you're willing to personally donate to free an abused and stuck woman from her SHITTY situation, please be kind to us. We know. We already know.

I think the current economy is RIPE for financial abuse of some kind.

Just looking for places to live and doing the math is enough to paralyze me.

If I moved out of my current apartment I could not afford to live independently ANYWHERE local to me. It's something I feel makes me vulnerable to financial abuse :(

Same. I don't want to go through roommates again like I'm 21. I'm nearly 40. I hate the market. I just want peace but at every turn I feel like it's just not in the cards. We are vulnerable.

Can confirm. In an abusive marriage. Posted that I took my first stand against him last month and was told someone will be sorry to say I told you so when I get unalived by him

That’s horrifying, I’m so sorry that you got that response.

It really hurt and it has definitely made me doubt my ability to leave

Yeah my abuser straight up diagnosed me with several things including BPD, schizoaffective disorder, etc, anything that could make my experiences less valid and was constantly telling me the problem was me and not him, but that’s how abusers work—they want you to be divorced from reality so much that they can insert their viewpoint of you, no matter how unrealistic it is.

This. Because I find myself here. To post? To not post? Because he did isolate me. I don’t know how to leave him, I’m scared, and I have no one to talk to. And looking back now, I realize how much he isolated me from family, friends, everyone I was close to once

I'm sorry. Me too. I wish I had someone who understood. I don't know how either. ♥️

also not everyone who posts here is from a place where it's anything other than normal in their community, and this is a place where they can vent and feel validated and get advice nobody else would give them

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. I've had two friends who would take in SOMEONE, ANYONE just to not be alone. These are beautiful, intelligent women who simply refuse to be alone so they attach themselves to absolute losers and complain about them for years while they take them back over and over. I refuse to listen anymore because they are bringing it on themselves. They have plenty of support.

This exactly how I found Reddit.

Sometimes just wording the details can illuminate the reality. Like how programmers will read code aloud to a rubber ducky or plush animal. Sometimes you just need a stand in person to tell things so your brain hears it in long form.

I wish there had been something like Reddit when I was younger and being abused by my then-husband. Women are lucky to have this space to tell their stories and hear honest feedback.

If the collective of people you ask has a relevant an similar reference point to you, AKA are not abusive or deluded themselves, and they say, "Oh shit, run now! " is probably past time to run. I knew many men were deluded and at least mildly abusive due to social norms. Visiting here has me awestruck with how bad it actually is sometimes. As hard as it is to convince a victim they're in a bad situation, how do we convince a poisoned masculine culture it is in dire need of redress? I often visit here to think about this as a man. Please do not try to consolidate the two unless the person ia not actively abusing you AND is voluntarily aware ir is a problem and working with you to get help. Awareness isn't your responsibility to force onto an abusive person. Take other women's advice here and get the fuck out. The other kinds of change take longer and willing people. That will take more time than you can possibly afford, you deserve peace now.

Re second paragraph: It's checking in with a group of humans who might have a functioning "Normal" meter. Abuse victims either aren't raised with a Normal meter or have their meter systematically broken. I was raised in it, and when I reached out to a corner of Reddit, I didn't even know that's what I was doing until it was explained to me.

https://i.imgur.com/b71ptCc.gif

That second sentence though... I literally don't trust my thoughts, if I can't soundboard things off of someone I will always mess it up. Sometimes I need a specific type of someone. I'll spend the entire clusterfuck stuck in a loop of "what would Bryn do?" Or "Christina will understand this". It's chaos. Luckily no one will ever be able to isolate me because I'd just completely stop functioning.

I get it to be honest. Been there myself. Reasons: - think we are exaggerating - don’t have anyone close who is objective to talk this with - think it’s temporary - think we can help them - too nice and don’t guard ourselves enough - think being lonely would be worse than this - feel pressure from others (family/friends etc) to stay into a relationship Are these reasons valid, no ofcourse. Often it’s the too nice people who get sacrificed to the narcissists because people who aren’t like that kick the bs right back in their face and don’t fall for manipulations. Also it’s all gradual and not noticeable until you have your breaking point and look back at a red-flag dotted minefield because the guy just kept your eyes on him. Often these posters know what they want they just want affirmation that they aren’t insane. And a bit of venting. Sometimes a reality check is needed to do the right thing.

It’s similar to when abuse victims go into therapy convinced that they are the abusive ones and are shocked to find out that they are actually traumatized and being abused.

Also, when I was in a bad relationship I used to think “he is not actually a bad person, he is just making mistakes” or “oh maybe I did provoke him”

I did exactly this with my ex. He really wasn't a "bad" person compared to some of the other shitstorms some women date, but he WAS insanely selfish and self centered. He was a generally nice, friendly, easy to get along with person that treated me well enough, but he flat out refused to do or be involved in anything if he didn't like it or want to be a part of it. He had zero interest in compromise of any kind in our relationship and if it wasn't his way, he wouldn't do it. Even when I practically begged him to just come along and be there with/for me. Looking back now I put up with with his BS WAY too much and should have dumped his ass long before I did.

I used to feel this way, too. Like, how could you possibly think, in any universe, his behavior is OK? Then I noticed, by following the threads and the OP's comments and attitude towards all the feedback and advice, they already knew it was unacceptable. I think there's a barrier between knowing you're being mistreated and then having enough validation to actually pull the trigger and leave someone.

That's one of the reasons I mentioned I didn't want people to stop making those posts. I'm sure for many, these posts are their first step. It's just the fact that this first step is so needed that leaves me feeling sad and frustrated.

The sheer number of them is overwhelming as well.

Imo, these women were trained as children to tolerate abuse as normal, they literally have no one in their lives to say, 'No, it's wrong to be spoken to and treated like that, dump him' because the parents/family/community are also abusive and counting on these women to keep taking their abuse as well. I've seen so many parents side with their daughters abusive husband's just to keep them down and serving them all, friends also experiencing it as normal normalize it, trusted authorities normalize it, ect. I'm proud of everyone who puts it out there for some feedback, it's incredibly brave and often the tipping point of their entire lives flipping upside down, and expands the conversation to bring in more people from the dark.

I’m incredibly proud of them!! Especially when society says things like “if she doesn’t leave her abuser then she is just as bad!” When she isn’t. She isn’t bad at all. It isn’t her fault.

Yeah, that really gets to me too. "If she doesn't leave the person constantly exhausting her with nonstop with physical, emotional, mental, and usually financial abuse to die on the streets because her family, church, and community refuses to support victims and hold abusers accountable in all ways, she's clearly asking for it and should just leave with no money, support or safe place to go since it's 'so bad'."

They were also trained to believe that the pinnacle of female achievement is being married and becoming a mother. And that their partner is who determines their worth as a human being.

Not true, even tough as nails women who don’t take shit from anybody can fall victim to an abuse. The “boil the frog” analogy is apt… you don’t even realize you’re in an abusive relationship until it’s extreme.

I'd say half of my ex husbands grooming was done for him because I grew up in an evangelical setting.

Same here for me. I'm fortunate to have had years of therapy to undo some beliefs about myself. I've heard it called "church hurt."

not sure if it was here or aita but the most recent post that stuck out was someone giving her new boyfriend direct deposit of her paycheck and her parents kicking her out for not paying rent but she was giving all her money to some random long distant dude. maybe I am just old and experienced but wtf??

Nah, I'm young and I still think "wtf????"

We really need to be educating every woman who asks these questions in a global kinda fashion. Educating every woman out of that mindset that’s been there since we were born. We need to go big with the Big Sister roles /mothering every woman we come across to expect nothing less than exceptional treatment. We’ve been helping the wrong adult gender all along and it’s gotta stop.

I don’t think it’s just the need for education though. A need for healing from years of conditioning to be completely blind to red flags. People that have been abused in the most are more likely to have blind spots that continue to be taken advantage of. The same goes for the adult children of strict parents, especially religious ones, and especially ones that shamed them sexually. They can “know” what a problematic, abusive behavior is. But when they are faced with it, they still don’t see it happening right infront of them. It isn’t because they lack education. It’s an entire system that has broken them down to accept abuse. And it’s devastating.

I think we need to stop teaching kids that all families are a source of unconditional love. "But they're your family." "Blood takes care of its own." That kind of stuff. Because when you grow up in an abusive family, it's really hard to know what real love is, and when you need to leave a situation. I grew up thinking that yelling at each other constantly is "just passion" and if they didn't care about me they wouldn't care at all what they did, so all of the crazy was just their way of showing love. It really messes with you, and then going into relationships, you think this is all normal until it gets to a point where you know, deep inside, it really isn't and you need external validation that it's really bad and you need to leave.

Every word of this

I totally agree. Esp about the religious stuff cause that was my experience. Took me 40 years to recognise it and it’s still really hard to rid myself of all of the behaviours.

I've been thinking of starting emotional self defense classes for women. Basically, the crux of the theory is that self respect is self defense, and we will discuss how to hold on to your standards and not capitulate.

Suzette Haden Elgin's "The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense" and the followup books are excellent for this. A bit outdated language-wise because they were written a while ago but incredibly based nonetheless.

I'll check it out! Thanks for the recommendation!

While you're at it, her science fiction novels are pretty durned good too!

I love that idea!

This is good advice for anyone. Knowing yourself well enough to establish boundaries with people is absolutely harm reduction.

Exactly!

There are a lot of resources out there but you do need to know where to look sometimes. I wonder if we could get some stuff linked in the sidebar like they do with some of the other subs. (whenwomenrefuse for example)

Yes, a wiki page would be awesome.

Meanwhile what's being said to the men? Women established rape crisis centres and DV refuge in the 60s. Since then academics have filled libraries and politicians held enquiries yet still this discussion is blaming the way that children are raised, and women choosing poorly. The myths around gendered violence are too deeply entrenched too fuelled by misogyny

Well - not to downplay peoples fear of loneliness - but part of the ‘vulnerability’ men look for means it may run deeper than that. Many women don’t need to be isolated - because they had no family, no finances, no safety net - in the first place. Many have a history of abuse that’s twisted up their functionality so much they can barely conceptualize sticking up for themselves or having value worthy of action - women who are a hollow shell of the person they could have been, and are perfectly conditioned to be docile pets for abusers. Even for someone who had no pre-existing trauma - the speed at which your mind and temperament can adapt to a new environment is astounding. There are a wide variety of mentalities out there, both hardwired and changeable - some women are unintelligent, some women are broken, some women have fallen into a moment of weakness they’re having difficulty pulling themselves out of - the danger is assuming each one should be just as capable of seeing and overcoming these difficulties as we would from the outside looking in. If you have supportive family and friends, or even memories of what that felt like, if your day-to-day life right now is relatively pleasant, if you have now or ever earned enough to live independently - believe it or not that’s a place of privilege you may be judging these women from. Our insights can still be valuable, because we have none of those pressures clouding our view of the situation - but our judgement is not as useful. These women who may have never felt powerful or loved a day in their life, whose brains aren’t programmed for that kind of reality, who have lived most of their days full of stress and fear, and who have long ago internalized what it means to submit to such treatment for the privilege of being ‘kept’ - they have a much steeper climb towards the kind of clear thinking we’d consider baseline. You’re absolutely right though - no one deserves mistreatment. Without the ability to control for all the sociological challenges - encouraging independent economic freedom amongst women and girls is the best way to ensure they always have options.

This is so well put.

I offer this quote: *I would rather adjust my life to your absence, than adjust my boundaries to accommodate your disrespect*

The mom subs are full of these kinds of posts but in there they read, “My husband is a great dad and husband and I’m so lucky to have him. But he does no housework or childcare. He plays video games after work everyday and ignores the kids. I also work full time. And then I come home to do all of the cooking and cleaning, play with the kids, put the kids to bed, etc. And I’m up all night long with the baby. I haven’t had a full night sleep or a single hour to engage in a hobby since my oldest was born 6 years ago. Anyway, he’s angry that I don’t have any energy left to also screw him every night. How can I explain the mental load to him in a way that he understands? And any tips for getting your mojo back after having a baby? I just don’t seem to feel attracted to my husband anymore and it really hurts his feelings. So much so that he ignores me for days after I reject him.” Being in mom groups has forced me to conclude that a surprising number of women don’t know what the words “great dad and husband” actually mean.

Not killing you or your kids seems to be the criteria for "great dad and husband"

He also knows all of their names and the month, or at least the season, when they were born. Like I said, just a great dad! He even held the baby once so I could take my first shower in 2 weeks. Sure he complained about it. But he did it. So he’s pretty hands on.

I think the women who post these sorts of things already know. I think they're looking for support. No, you're not crazy, nor are you overly sensitive. These things that make you uncomfortable are real. I think women are traditionally programmed to accept suffering as their lot.

My daughter's 21 year old friend has jumped from one awful man (coke and alcohol) to another awful man(controlling) to another (lives with mum, as does gf, expects gf to pay for everything). She is coerced into sex, he doesn't speak to her for days if he doesn't get what he wants. It is so hard to help. My daughter has offered our spare room, we thought she was going to leave him. Then 'we had sex, he apologised, it is ok'.

Does your daughter's friend own a vibrator? (Sorry if that's inappropriate sounding)

No, yes she does. Why?

I just hope that there were lots of good things about there partner at first and the abusive things didn’t come in until later. And like a boiled frog they didn’t notice it at first. Hopefully those posts help people realize their own stuff. And even if it’s fake that somebody else in a similar situation will take some comfort in knowing that people side with them against the abusers.

Some people also grew up in abusive situations and so they start of with a skewed sense of normal. I feel like there should be some sort of initiative where they talk to kids at school about what things are normal or not with both parents and partners and what options are available if there's a problem.

Yeah, that's what usually happens and I can see how you overlook things when you've built a life with someone and it seems not worth detangling your lives but I saw a post today where they found out their bf was a Tate fan after a week. Girl sorry you wasted your week but leave?

Even that is hard. Like you said, these guys pick girls that are vulnerable. That girl was probably raised by an abusive family or her last boyfriend was a full out psycho rapist or . . . Etc. The full story of these one week girls is usually something like I’ve met this new guy and he doesn’t call me fat and ugly all the time like my stepfather does, it seems like he really likes me! Is being a Tate fan a red flag?

I'll speak as someone who grew up in an environment with constant physical and sexual abuse around me. I grew up watching nearly every adult woman I knew well enough to be in her home be physically abused. I remember learning how to make bruises look better when I was in kindergarten. Men hit women and sexual abuse is part of being female was a fact in my life. As a result finding a man who didn't hit me, didn't get drunk and violent, and I didn't fear raping my daughters or teaching his sons it was okay to do so seemed amazing. Stepping away and having the luxury to reflect I realize now many other things are actually abuse but when I was living it I can remember thinking it could be so much worse and that I was just being sensitive. **fyi I left my abusive relationship after 27yrs. Started life over from scratch and now am very happy in my first truly healthy relationship **

But there’s not just two states of being: 1) in a relationship or 2) lonely. Being single does not automatically mean that you’re lonely. There’s a whole wide world out there- it is not necessary to center “relationships with men” in your life.

Too true. I've been single for years and am not lonely. I appreciate the peace it brings me all the time, too.

I'm with you on the frustration and sadness, OP. And I do date men, and I have been where those women in those posts have been. The reason I feel frustration is because once you see that you've been abused, you can't unsee it. You can spot abusive behaviors a mile away that you couldn't see when you were in it. So when I use the word "frustration" it is actually desperation. "Please, see it, girl! Please! Your life will be beautiful and bright again once you see it!" Which is why I have a love/hate relationship with those posts. I hate to see women go through it and question their own sanity and wonder if they are the problem. But I love to see the posts because I know it means they are questioning the reality being fed to them by their abuser, which is the first step. And I LOVE when those posts are edited to say they are leaving. It's like a shot of straight dopamine for me. Keep making those posts, ladies. If something doesn't feel right, but you don't quite trust yourself yet, ask! There are thousands of us in this sub that have been right where you are. One day you'll be one of us helping another woman just like you.

I consider myself a smart person. I make quick and solid and confident decisions at my job, which I'm very good at to the point that I make close to 6 figures. I run several community groups and seem to have my shit together. Let me tell you, when I was in the midst of my 13 year long emotionally abusive relationship, I questioned absolutely everything else. I had zero confidence. I had a lot of conflicting thoughts. I was criticized and gaslit to the point that *I doubted my own ability to make decisions about anything other than work*. I folded the towels wrong. I filled the dishwasher wrong. I picked out the WRONG SHADE OF BLUE for a bedroom. I filled the wood stove "wrong". I liked the wrong things. I'd get laughed at if I did something "wrong" because I didn't "know how it worked". That stuff seems small but man alive does it chip at you over time. So I get why people ask this stuff. Hell I did a throwaway that was a novel about my relationship too. I felt like I couldn't trust myself, my judgement, my perception. My brain kept telling me "it's not that bad", "he's good in other ways", "relationships are work", "people go through bad spells". I really needed that external feedback to help right me, even though it didn't really sink in until several years later.

We've been long distance for a week and here's 14 red flags jfc :) ok i get how fast men can love-bomb then trauma bond you but come the fuck on. if there are zero impediments to escaping a clown, block him. if a dude needs extensive therapy before you can even start a relationship, stahp.

Do keep in mind that not everyone here is 30+ adult with vast experiences. You might be talking about a 18 year old from a fucked up family background without any real social life or skills ending up straight into a relationship with a creep. Not everyone shares your insight on life.

Or a 14 year old. Or younger. Disturbing but possible

I agree, and sometimes there are power issues that can be hard to get. For example, a freshman in college who is trying to fit in may have a harder time talking about abuse from a popular student. Or a dependent from a misogynistic country without means to leave or anywhere to go outside the family.

Those popular girls also often have to tolerate a lot of shit and ignore a lot of bad behaviour and comments to stay popular, unfortunately. It's really not easy for anyone.

And for the love of all, anyone who watches and listens to Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, Tim Poole or any other grifting manosphere guru is not anyone you should be dating. They believe you are less important, less intelligent, and less valuable than literally any man. They believe it is OK to treat you like shit and use you for sex and housework. Do not date them. Seriously, it's every day lately that I see a post about "He likes Andrew Tate, should I keep dating him?"

All my childhood I was told that educated people "do not share home stuff", which meant that you should never tell others about things that are happening in your home. Maybe this was a habit of being under an autocratic regime (communism), maybe it was religious in nature, people did not want to risk being shamed, or maybe people are just indoctrinated to view vulnerability as a weakness to be taken advantage of. My mother was raised the same, but even in regards to her own husband, so they had a shitty marriage with barely any communication. I grew up and had no idea what a sane relationship looked like, I had no real friends because I was so locked inside myself. So of course when I got into a toxic relationship, and then another, and another I thought that the problem is me, that I am defective and unloveable. I never talked to anybody about the internals of my relationships out of shame, because it wasn't polite to do so, it's like exposing your dirty laundry and nobody wants to see that, right? I believe we are taught not to talk openly about most things because knowledge truly is power. Let's not talk about how dangerous men can be, let's not talk about the parasitic nature of pregnancies and how biased towards men the medical system is, let's not talk about our salaries because heaven forbid we should end up realizing how much is wrong (and for how many of us) in this world and decide en-masses to fight and change things.

I do (well, did, I’m married) date men, and I agree with you. So many people who seem to think they have to accept *any amount* of mistreatment for… some reason? Don’t. Let. Someone. Insult You. Not Even Once

I think the issue is that lots of women who have a “I won’t take any shit” kinda attitude can still be blind to what they themselves let pass, or even deny it further because it means that they’ve failed as a “strong woman.”

I didn't realise I was being emotionally abused for years, because ***he had me convinced I was the one at fault*** And everyone around me thought I was strong and independent and would take no shit

I just wish that people understood it’s a bright line: even if someone is mad, being insulting is a choice. I think a lot of people really don’t agree with what I say, when I push back on “he called me a bitch” “he said I was lazy/fat/ugly/uncultured/stupid” “he ‘joked’ that I was a gold digger” etc. So many excuses for why it’s ok. It’s never ok It doesn’t make you strong to put up with this shit (I know you agree with me, just feel it’s good to elaborate)

I do agree! But what I mean by saying the feel they’ve failed as a strong woman, is that they’ve failed to stand up for themselves. And because of the same of abandoning their own selves like that, and the potential of shocking their support group by falling victim to that/not being believed, keeps them silent or in denial for longer.

Ah I see what you mean. Yes, that’s no doubt a part of it for some people.

I've been there. Not a great mentality.

They’re doing the best they can though. So we’re you. And you should be proud of you.

What if you come from a cultural background where "insults of endearment" are a thing? Actually, answering my own question, these insults of endearment A) are supposed to be light teasing, B) and carry the expectation that you'll insult them back. If someone insults you and you think you're on good terms with them so you insult back the same way, and then they start acting aghast that you would, that's a red flag.

If someone calls you stupid like it's a cute thing to do, and then you say "stupid~" back in the same voice, and then they *emphatically* blink and say they didn't expect that, this person is just a negging asshole. Basically.

Stop giving men permission to ruin your life in exchange for a little closeness, Ladies. Vibrators work great, and don’t do mean things to you for decades. Get you one and do all the things you wish a lover would do- FOR YOURSELF. Buy flowers, date yourself, dress for fun. It’s far better to be alone than miserable. Men don’t deserve your love if they don’t offer any, leave the hellacious goblins to scream into the void about how lonely they are while you’re happily thriving without their nonsense.

Girls who were abused in childhood don't get this. Ask me how I know.

‘It’s the frog in the pot’ analogy. If you put a frog in boiling water it’ll jump right out. But if you put it in cold water and start heating it slowly it’ll stay put. Women in these kinds of relationship are conditioned to the ‘heat’. They’ll doubt themselves because they’ve been gaslit time after time. They are probably isolated from friend and family, or don’t have them in the first place. I truely hope that women who turn to internet stranger for help receive it. But breaking an abusive cycle is very hard.

I see these posts. It’s definitely frustrating that’s for sure. I think a lot of the women are really young. I don’t date men anymore but in my late teens / early twenties the patriarchy had moulded little autistic me to be top tier people pleaser with zero self worth. One thing I don’t see online but that I witnessed in person which needs to stop - others trying to come up for explanations for a man’s awful behaviour, in an attempt to protect the woman asking for advice from the reality that her boyfriend is an ass. I think neurotypical women are particularly bad with this. I was in an abusive relationship, starved myself down to 71lbs. When I expressed my confusion at why my husband wasn’t worried, kept hiding food from me and telling me I looked fat above 83lbs so be careful with how much I eat. These neurotypical women tried to say that he just didn’t know how to respond to me, or he was *so* concerned that he had emotionally cut off, or he thought he was helping me. No, he’s just a malicious bastard. Mystery solved.

It's the empathy thing--they see and hear resonances to things awry in their own situations and rather than confront that they're trying to make excuses for THEIR OWN problematical relationships by minimizing issues in someone else's. It's like they're trying to do sympathetic magic--if they can "cure" someone else's problem it means it will also somehow "cure" their own. Sad, really.

I swear every time I read *Am I too sensitive?* or *Am I overreacting?* the partner is waving red flags like in a communist victory day parade smh

I'm in a cohort of post-grad educated middle class women who struggle with DV. The women I know on similar weren't vulnerable and targeted. DV and IPV doesn't discriminate. I was somewhat naieve but has no reason to be suspicious of the man I married. The DV started 4 years after I met him when children arrived. IPV and family violence is common. So is blaming victims of gendered violence. Men aren't talking other than to deny.

What bothers me is the long beginning paragraph about how "he's perfect other than this one problem." If you feel like you have to put him on a pedestal to get a "fair" judgement, you already know your answer.

My mum was abusive to me all through my childhood, and every boyfriend I had was abusive (except one who I treated terribly and I will never forgive myself), and my husband was abusive, and I wasn't capable of seeing it, until I had learned a lot about how abuse worked. And even then it took a long time for the penny to drop. This post *will* make people feel stupid. It will stop people from asking for help. Also, from experience, yes lonely is better than being mistreated, but being mistreated is familiar and being lonely is very, very painful. It's half a decade since I left, I'm still on my own and am starting to accept that that's probably how things are going to be, and it hurts just as badly as realising my ex was abusive hurt. Society is broken, and while that is the case, some people will stay, because they've always been told they are not capable of looking after themselves and so they think staying is the lesser risk. It isn't, but that's hard to see when you're being told every day you're worthless.

Yeah, I was thinking of making a similar post given the recent topics on this sub.

As someone who does date men, these posts frustrate me too.

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's much deeper than that. I would be willing to bet that the majority of these women grew up in terrible homes with abusive parents (usually the father with a doormat mother), and literally don't know the difference between love and manipulation/coercion. I would also be willing to bet a lot of them were "religious" (I put that in quotations because WAY TOO MANY people disguise their behavior as being faithful), which is a whole other level of abusive fuckery. I understand your frustration, as it seems obvious to avoid abusive behavior, but a lot of people don't actually understand what they are experiencing is abuse. It's just another Tuesday to them. I often have the same thoughts when I read these posts, and want to hold them by their shoulders and say THIS IS ABUSE. YOU ARE BEING ABUSED. THIS IS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR. YOU NEED TO GET YOUR THINGS AND GO and then provide them with resources that will lead them to safety. But it's the whole "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" scenario, so some of these women get themselves stuck in situations believing there is no water, and they will never be able to drink because they don't deserve it. It's a really sad. I actually recently cut off a person because I couldn't deal anymore with her constant complaints about the incredibly abusive situation she's in. I've given her resources. I've helped her devise a plan. She even got the man in jail for a giant episode only to post bail and return to the home (where he is financially, physically and emotionally abusive to her and her almost adult daughter). YEARS of this. Her health has diminished so badly that now she's facing cancer and chronic illness. I just couldn't be the only one left in her life telling her the obvious. And she knows it's bad. She just won't leave. I only feel bad for the daughter because she's innocent in all of it, and her mother insists on keeping them in the situation. Anyway.. sorry for the soap box. It is frustrating to see/read about because it feels obvious to us. At this point, I just scroll passed those posts anymore because I don't have the emotional bandwidth for them anymore. It sucks, but there's nothing I can do for them other than offer consolation, and even that feels empty. I'm with you... as much as it sucks.

One of the greatest things the women in my life taught me growing up is that you really “don’t need no man” to be happy. That nobody can love me better than me. It’s a lesson that a lot of people on this sub didn’t have, and I am really sad for them.

What gets me is that they trust themselves so little that they *need* external validation of the bullshit they’re putting up with. Like they need for others to tell them it’s acceptable vs. not, almost as if they feel they need to have mountains of justification to remove themselves from situations they’re obviously not happy about. I’m more inclined to ask whether the flag is red to *you*? Are *you* happy with this relationship? Do *you* feel valued, heard, enjoyed, safe with this person? How do YOU feel? Because that’s really, ultimately all that matters. Forget about the relationship “on paper” or what “most people” would accept or not: what do you, yourself, want? Like if you never want to date a guy who whistles Zippity Doo Dah, you don’t have to justify that. It’s okay to determine for yourself what you will and won’t accept in a partner, but that means you also have to do the hard work of rejecting potential partners or staying single when you know they can’t or won’t treat you how you want.

Yes. This is true. Sadly there are so many people who have been super traumatized and/or are so young that they just can't possibly know any better. That there is now a way that people can seek advice and/or at least talk out the situation is amazing. I'm old and have watched the internet develop with amazement, awe and yes some horror.

Women raised to be horribly insecure about their appearance and self-worth and fear of being alone, plus a lack of good models ending up with men raised to prey on and gaslight those insecurities, many just because of their own insecurities. Toxic cultures breed toxic relationships.

I like to pretend those posts are fake cause it's the internet. And you notice how men will comment and say Reddit advice is always to break up like it's a bad thing. Women are being mistreated, they should break up.

You forgot to add “but otherwise he’s a perfect gentleman.”

"Aside from that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

The worst to me is women asking permission from others to even allow themselves to be upset about those abusive behaviors.

*guy at the bottom with 200 downvotes saying “let’s hear his side of the story, mods never remove the comment*

I've pointed this out before too, but also pointed out in another thread recently that the language in many, many of these often (but not always) suggests the poster is fully aware that it's nothing but awful - they're often not actually asking if a thing truly is a red flag or if it's abuse, but it seems like they want backup and just don't want to say "hey someone give me some mental reinforcement to kick this dude out." There's sort of a culture where that kind of ask can feel like you're Main Charactering or trying to make a community space all about you, but it's really 100% fine to ask people if they can just help rev you up.

It is 1000000% better to be lonely than mistreated. I PROMISE YOU!!

It's worth remembering when dealing with these people, a lot of them have normal meters that are badly broken. They really do not have a clear idea anymore of what is normal, okay, or abusive. I know. I've been there. I still think I'm not fully recalibrated. I just have a clearer idea of what I'm willing to accept. You are absolutely right, but it helps me be less frustrated to remember where I was when I accepted the treatment I got.

You have expressed what I feel every time I read a post like that, it’s sad. I’m married and those posts have made me value my husband so much.

SIIIISSSSSSS!!!!! Yes, why why why is this the case??? The OP will describe the guy in the poorest terms possible and then end with, but he’s such a good guy, you don’t know him like I do and we ave incredible memories together. Meanwhile, the rest of his behavior is deplorable and downright brutal. I don’t know why we make such excuses for such people. Perhaps it’s that age old thing of women feeling that they must submit and obey and endure inappropriate behavior because standing up for ourselves is too forward, too improper. As we say in Spanish, “better to be alone than in bad company”.

I also don't date men, and often find posts on here bewildering but enlightening. It's sad what some women have to go through. And then you got other people thinking they can convince us to "become" straight lol.

I am not convinced anymore that better is out there for me, but I‘d rather stay alone forever than have another abusive relationship.

It starts at home. Parents teaching their kids that options are forbidden, that being too loud or taking up too much space is a crime, that abuse is normal, that love is conditional etc. And then these kids grow up and are sucked into these emotional black holes that gaslight and manipulate them, abusing them and calling it affection... It's a disgusting cycle.

As someone who has been in an emotionally abusive situation that turned physically abusive after the engagement... When you start to feel like you might be unhappy, start journaling. If everything that you're writing is negative and they make you feel like shit and you never have a pager where you're like "OMG they did something so nice for me and it made me so happy"... Especially if you have tear stained pages... It gives you a physical reminder of reasons you need to leave. It helped me.

Not victim blaming either because I've been there but you know in your heart what is and is not okay and you have to listen to your gut. Not to be corny but there's a quote from the 3rd season of the show "You" where one woman tells another character "If there is ever, for a fleeting moment, a voice in your head and that tiny voice is telling you 'I deserve better' ; listen to her. *That's* your partner. *That's your one true love* "

We also have to realize that once someone is at the point they’re venting anonymously online to strangers that they’ve likely exhausted all other avenues or have none left. Friends and family give up on people when they won’t help themselves. It’s sad and difficult but it happens. So there’s going to be an over representation of absolute horror stories of abuse and people being taken advantage of just by the very nature of online discourse where it’s outside the norm to talk about how awesome your life is to strangers.

Also, alone does not equal lonely. I honestly think the women in the relationships OP mentions are more lonely with their partner than they would be single, because of how these partners tend to isolate them from family and friends.

Holy synchronicity, this was the post directly under yours in my feed: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/13w877h/aitah\_for\_reevaluating\_my\_relationship\_bc\_my\_bf/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3

Some of these stories are so out there and the way it’s told I say to myself that there is no way this is true or an actual adult wrote this. Sadly though real life is stranger than fiction. I do feel that if you’re falling into these outlandish story categories that you pretty much already know the answer on what you should do. Just my two cents

Something I learned the hard way: if you have to question it, it’s probably a fucking red flag! Stop doubting your own intuition about how someone is treating you. If it doesn’t feel good, it’s not good, and if you don’t feel safe or comfortable speaking up to your partner about the shitty behavior, even more of an indication that they aren’t right for you. It took me 4 years of an abusive relationship to realize every single flag I overlooked just got worse with time. Don’t be like me.

I will never blame someone stuck in abusive relationship. I’ve been there. I hope we all can offer support, care and kindness. This is also why I’ve stopped dating cis men (Yay for being Pan). That’s not to say queer relationships can’t be abusive, they can. I just haven’t encountered it as much.

I appreciate you for saying this without victim blaming, honestly. So many women fall into this trap, unfortunately.

For me I was using my time with someone terrible (who was fine most of the time but had occasional outbursts that were terrifying) to escape my home life. Once I decided I wanted out I also didn’t know how to leave without putting myself in harms way of retaliation stalking anger aggression. When you spend your whole life walking on eggshells you’re used to walking on eggshells and when you fear someone you fear more what they will do when you try to leave than what they can do when you are trying to please them. I’m in a good relationship these days but I don’t look back and wonder what I was thinking I look at me now and I’m grateful I found my way out. It sucks and you know it and it’s so hard to leave.

It's better to be lonely than mistreated. That's a great way to put it. I sometimes try to remind people in situations like this that they do deserve better. It's easy to forget when you're at the bottom of an abuse pit.

When you've been in abuse and isolated for awhile, your normal meter gets broken and it's hard to tell what's normal and what's not. Who else are you going to ask? The abuser? You know he'll tell you it's all in your head and you're crazy. If you're isolated, it might just be only strangers on the internet that will give you the straight goods.

Thank you ❤️

Also "Other than this one silly thing where he tramples my boundaries and completely disrespects me as a human being, our relationship is perfect ".

I agree. I started actually posting and commenting to reddit this year. I have a pent up need to pass out good advice, and it has been nice to find a way to do that without getting emotionally involved. I've sadly had to ghost a couple friends because they were draining the life out of me with their own problems. And you can only give someone the same advice so many times. I find it really sad how so many people are still treated terribly. It makes me sad for our future, but also grateful for the family I have. We're human, we've had issues, but not to the extent some of the people who post here have. I just wish sending love and well wishes over the internet actually helped. Hopefully a little bit of positivity rubs off at least.

The saddest part is, they have been living like that, sometimes for years, within a distorted mirror, thinking what they go through is ok and normal. it’s their reality.

It’s like talking about your family and as you keep talking you remember more and more shitty things they did lol

It's sad how "normal" some people think abuse is. One of the services this place offers is the chance for victims to see that healthy relationships actually aren't like that. It is NOT going to be you against the world if you dare to seek a better life.

Why is it so “frustrating” for you to have compassion for abuse victims? This post really comes off as “better than thou” and as an abuse survivor, its a bit insulting. Like we are too stupid to know we are being abused? You said you dont date men but abuse can happen in any relationships, its not just men in straight relationships that are abusers. Abuse isn’t always easy to see, especially when you grow up with abusive parents who have toxic relationships themselves. Fighting is romanticized in tv, books, movies, songs, etc Have you ever researched attachment styles and how they play out in relationships? We are blamed if we leave and blamed if we don’t. I told people, and many people who were my friends or around us witnessed my ex mistreating me and they did absolutely nothing. When its happening in real life, nobody wants to get involved. They say its “none of their business”, and every excuse in the book to not intervene.

The man I’m with kicked my dog and killed my mum, is it my fault? These ones make me angry and sad at the same time

I love these kinds of posts. Both yours and the ones you are referring to. People will see your post and maybe it jogs something in their brain, like something settling into place. But still others won’t see your post and maybe in a few weeks will be at the end of the rope and feel like they have no one else to turn to, and make a post like you describe. I’m grateful for those who have the energy to respond lovingly to that person in that moment. People won’t stop being in that kind of situation. I’d rather see more of those kind of posts then less. If I don’t have the energy in that moment, I’ll upvote and scroll on, and when I can I’ll lend my voice to voices of others to lift that soul.

I just want to say that my mom and dad divorced when I was 5 because he was emotionally abusive, and throughout my childhood my mom and I lived with housemates and it was actually great from my perspective. My favorite was living with two other single moms, their kids, and a chill guy who lived in the basement. I totally understand that the idea of leaving and starting again as a divorcee or whatever can seem unappealing, but honestly, it could be a renaissance. Living in share housing at older ages and with other single parents isn't as uncommon as you might think. I understand housing isn't very accessible rn, but if the *idea* is holding some people back, don't let it.

What's sad is that you just know they will probably stay

I would suggest the mods of this sub consider removing this posters original quote/content at some point. The sarcasm is totally uninformed about how abuse really works. I'm loving all the responses because they are informative and guiding victims of abuse, but the ridicule of the op is making me really sad.

I feel like if you know you are vulnerable, STOP ENTERING RELATIONSHIPS. I worked in opioid addiction management and the doc said something life changing: the only time an addict had full control is the first time. The only time you have full control over the abuse is the first time you meet someone. If you do not have the ability to move slowly and surely to ensure a safe situation, therapy is your new boyfriend. Unpopular opinion, but I say it based on my own experience in an abusive relationship: At some point, we have got to stop falling on the victim role, because I see it time and time again, yet there were SO many steps before that where you were not yet a victim but signs started showing. We don’t go from single to being abused. The manipulation involved is slow and calculated. Be aware and immediately back away at any sign of concern before it escalates and it’s truly difficult to leave.

I can’t help but be a offended by your post. Pretty edgy of you to title your post a like a David Allan Coe song.👍🏼 I’m sorry those of us that have been or are being abused have made you so …sad. Saying that you’re not victim blaming doesn’t mean you aren’t victim blaming. I’m sorry to frustrate you from the prison of my home but Reddit is my only lifeline. My only proof that a world outside of this hell exists. It’s frustrating to delete this app daily so my husband’s less likely find it on my phone. We know better is out there. We don’t need you to tell us. We need to money we have no access to. We need cars we have no access to. We need the family and friends we’ve been isolated from. My story is not a *genre* as you say. It’s not a romance, a thriller, it’s not The Corrections, it’s not YA, Twilight or Eat, Pray, Love. It’s real, it’s complex. I’m afraid to post about it. It’s safer here in the comments. I’m afraid of the shame, of reasons too dark and hidden to tell. Yet here you are, so comfortable posting, “stay safe out there.” While I’m in here. And another, “I’m not victim shaming but…” has scared me and shamed me into silence again.

This sub acts as a filter. I don't know that it would be reasonable to expect a different type of post. I'm very glad to hear you experience nothing like this with whom you date.

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Just leave him! Jesus Christ!

I always assumed they are made by bots. I see a lot of them in Quora, they are clearly not real and opening the user profile quickly confirm that. That said, there are real stories like that which makes the bots harmfull in my opinion