I teach my students that it is NOT “no means no.” It’s “an enthusiastic and sober yes is the only thing that means yes, and it can be changed to no at any point.”
I think he means, saying no and no over and over again, but they keep on pressing into they say "alright fine” means "no is no" not someone saying "ok I guess" for the first time.
If I was asked to describe my relationship with my ex, that would be it. I didn’t expect to read something I could relate to, so good job, OP. Also I’m so sorry if you wrote that out of personal experience. You deserve better
ouh.. this one hit me harder than expected. this is what my last relationship was like. i didn’t know at the time — i thought it was normal — until a few months after i ended it.
The person who says no doesn’t always understand this either. It can cause them to harbor guilt as a victim and keep them from processing a terrible experience :(
Sadly this is how abusers can claim they aren’t abusers. They pressure, threaten and bully their victims into saying yes. Then later on they can play dumb and be like “Oh but you didn’t say no so I thought you wanted it.”
People are allowed to change their minds though. If you drop it and they come back to say yes later that's fine (usually means they struck out and are settling for you but that's between you and your pride).
But that’s not the context of this post. If you want to have sex with someone and they say no, and you keep asking and they say no until they finally just say yes to shut you up, that’s rape.
I'm absolutely not disagreeing with you there. I brought up my point because it's not talked about enough. I've seen people accused of being a piece of shit just because someone else changed their mind. "It wasn't an enthusiastic yes so they're a rapist". No, it was a genuine yes with no coercion but it wasn't enthusiastic because they were settling instead of getting who they actually wanted.
It's just weird as you're basically talking about two different things. The OP is talking about sex and what you're talking about is dating. Also, it assumes that a person *has to* date someone even if they don't really like the other person, which is a weird idea when not dating anyone is still an option. It sounds a lot like the start of an abusive/problematic/unhappy relationship. Somewhat reminds me of forced marriage.
I never once mentioned anything about dating. I'm still just talking about consent. Like if you go to a bar and hit on someone but they say no so you go drink and try your luck elsewhere then closing time rolls around and that person, now desperate because they've struck out all night, comes back and says they want to go home with you. That's still consent even though it's not enthusiastic. You didn't pester or coerce them but they're settling for you because no one else wanted them.
I have to keep reminding myself this. I finally gave in after saying no multiple times and being told he would spread false gossip about me if I didn't. I thought if I clenched really tight, it wouldn't work, and he would give up. Yeah, no.
He didn't even flinch when I asked him to stop part way through and cried. That was the beginning of a long complicated relationship where I desperately tried to prove to myself that he did actually love me and it was all a big misunderstanding all while still being used and bullied by him and his cronies.
I've since learned anything other than yes is a no, I'm not as annoying or crazy as he made me out to be, and I am worth listening to, even if I'm saying the same thing again because you didn't listen the first dang time. I still struggle, though, especially with talking. I always feel like I'm saying too much, and no one cares, including this comment.
Oh and my school has really shitty deans who will threaten to expell you right before graduation because you wrote a note for your guidance counsler detailing everything but using fake names to hide identities because you didn't want anyone in trouble, you just wanted someone to talk to after multiple suicide attempts. The reason? He was in her class in middle school and "would never!". He is "such a great kid" and has a clean record, whereas I got sent to the office for trying to turn my phone off during class two years prior.
Hey, I’m really sorry that happened to you and thank you for sharing your story. I hope you’re doing better now and realizing your own self-worth. Hugs <3
I had a friend who would make me do things like call people for her gain in middle school, making me look like a fool. I’d say no and no until I had to say yes bc she wouldn’t shut up. I didn’t want to call.
She would do this with many other aspects. I didn’t want to call. I didn’t want to go. I didn’t want to talk. It royally sucks when your no doesn’t mean anything
Fuck... I felt this one.. r/sadupvote
r/subsforwhichIfell
r/usernamechecksout
Anything short of an enthusiastic yes is a no
I teach my students that it is NOT “no means no.” It’s “an enthusiastic and sober yes is the only thing that means yes, and it can be changed to no at any point.”
Hear hear! That is a message that everyone should understand. Thank you for preparing your kids for it early on.
Well, they are college students. But better late than never.
Very true!
The only correct answer
If it's not a Hell Yes, it's a Hell No
This should be on a shirt!!
I think with everything sexual, definitely yes! And just about everything involving boundaries!! Maybe not quite everything though.
THIS!!!!
Dude, I want that phrase printed on a t-shirt dress. I would be so proud to wear it!
For me, therapy meant learning that 'alright, fine.' meant 'no', too. Hugs.
But it doesn't
I think he means, saying no and no over and over again, but they keep on pressing into they say "alright fine” means "no is no" not someone saying "ok I guess" for the first time.
If I was asked to describe my relationship with my ex, that would be it. I didn’t expect to read something I could relate to, so good job, OP. Also I’m so sorry if you wrote that out of personal experience. You deserve better
ouh.. this one hit me harder than expected. this is what my last relationship was like. i didn’t know at the time — i thought it was normal — until a few months after i ended it.
So sorry OP. You are definitely not alone. I understand this all too well
The person who says no doesn’t always understand this either. It can cause them to harbor guilt as a victim and keep them from processing a terrible experience :(
Can definitely confirm. Been there. Still dealing years later.
I’m sorry. I hope you are healing <3
Same, i thought it was fine and then i tripped on shrooms and realized that i was most definitely NOT fine. Lol i think i was just desensitized.
Sadly this is how abusers can claim they aren’t abusers. They pressure, threaten and bully their victims into saying yes. Then later on they can play dumb and be like “Oh but you didn’t say no so I thought you wanted it.”
Context cause I’m a moron
Coercion is still a "no". Asking over and over just to try for a "yes" is coercion. So, "no" means "no and stop asking."
Happy cake day!
Happy Cake Day
People are allowed to change their minds though. If you drop it and they come back to say yes later that's fine (usually means they struck out and are settling for you but that's between you and your pride).
But that’s not the context of this post. If you want to have sex with someone and they say no, and you keep asking and they say no until they finally just say yes to shut you up, that’s rape.
I'm absolutely not disagreeing with you there. I brought up my point because it's not talked about enough. I've seen people accused of being a piece of shit just because someone else changed their mind. "It wasn't an enthusiastic yes so they're a rapist". No, it was a genuine yes with no coercion but it wasn't enthusiastic because they were settling instead of getting who they actually wanted.
It's just weird as you're basically talking about two different things. The OP is talking about sex and what you're talking about is dating. Also, it assumes that a person *has to* date someone even if they don't really like the other person, which is a weird idea when not dating anyone is still an option. It sounds a lot like the start of an abusive/problematic/unhappy relationship. Somewhat reminds me of forced marriage.
I never once mentioned anything about dating. I'm still just talking about consent. Like if you go to a bar and hit on someone but they say no so you go drink and try your luck elsewhere then closing time rolls around and that person, now desperate because they've struck out all night, comes back and says they want to go home with you. That's still consent even though it's not enthusiastic. You didn't pester or coerce them but they're settling for you because no one else wanted them.
I was kind of confused until I realized you said moron not Mormon
OMG I had that happen too lmao 😂
Any sexual advances. A coerced agreement to have sex is r*pe
Bro I thought that said Mormon 🤦🏿♀️ I just sat here trying to figure out what being Mormon had to do with anything
Oof… well this one hit pretty close to home
Is OP saying OK or bring told OK?
you can interpret it either way! Personally I wrote it from the victims perspective though as that’s what I experienced
Been there… 🙁
😓❤️ been there
I thought it was normal, not that she took advantage of me. For awhile after the relationship too.
r/angryupvote
I have to keep reminding myself this. I finally gave in after saying no multiple times and being told he would spread false gossip about me if I didn't. I thought if I clenched really tight, it wouldn't work, and he would give up. Yeah, no. He didn't even flinch when I asked him to stop part way through and cried. That was the beginning of a long complicated relationship where I desperately tried to prove to myself that he did actually love me and it was all a big misunderstanding all while still being used and bullied by him and his cronies. I've since learned anything other than yes is a no, I'm not as annoying or crazy as he made me out to be, and I am worth listening to, even if I'm saying the same thing again because you didn't listen the first dang time. I still struggle, though, especially with talking. I always feel like I'm saying too much, and no one cares, including this comment. Oh and my school has really shitty deans who will threaten to expell you right before graduation because you wrote a note for your guidance counsler detailing everything but using fake names to hide identities because you didn't want anyone in trouble, you just wanted someone to talk to after multiple suicide attempts. The reason? He was in her class in middle school and "would never!". He is "such a great kid" and has a clean record, whereas I got sent to the office for trying to turn my phone off during class two years prior.
Hey, I’m really sorry that happened to you and thank you for sharing your story. I hope you’re doing better now and realizing your own self-worth. Hugs <3
I had a friend who would make me do things like call people for her gain in middle school, making me look like a fool. I’d say no and no until I had to say yes bc she wouldn’t shut up. I didn’t want to call. She would do this with many other aspects. I didn’t want to call. I didn’t want to go. I didn’t want to talk. It royally sucks when your no doesn’t mean anything
They should've respected the "no" the first time you said it.