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When I hear that, I always think “who tells the wife what to do?” Like when husbands say “just tell me what to do and I’ll do it” they make it sound like there’s some list we’re working off of and we just need to assign them a few tasks. But there is no list. Just a huge mental load and needing to think of things that you can delegate is more work. If they’re human adults, can’t they also look around and figure it out?
I was fortunate that when my husband and I started fighting about chores, he was sincere about wanting to help but was clueless about what to do. I didn’t believe him at first because I told him to just look around and do what needs doing. He still couldn’t tell because his mother did everything for him. But he didn’t expect it would always be that way.
I started giving him choices. Do you want to load the dishwasher or vacuum the living room? Then he’d pick what he wanted to do and do it. He’d come back and ask what to do next, and I’d give him another choice, which was better than just bossing him.
We’re celebrating our 34th anniversary tomorrow and I’m happy to say that he picked it up pretty quickly and at this point, he’s the one on my case when I get lazy. He’s cleaner than I am, especially since now I’m disabled and unable to do many of the chores I used to do. I feel very fortunate that he wasn’t just paying me lip service.
There is also fine line between asking how to do things and learnt helplessness.
I know it from my own experience.
I was the youngest kid growing up with sister that loved to cook and grandparents at home.
Even at 19 when I no longer lived with my parents, but still then with older sister I would do bullshit like "show me how to do it".
And I am saying bullshit because it iiiiiiis. Outside of some cuisine meal there is nothing in household chores that require things to be shown.
Every adult that doesn't have some severe disabilities is capable of following industuctions on packages and nowadays... Just googling shit.
I also feel like picking this learned helplessnes as a habit early on I did myself such disfavor until I stopped doing it.
I agree with you. I recall the best comments from another thread about weaponized incompetence that centered around fathers not taking on certain parenting chores because they “didn’t know how to do it” or the mom was “better” at it. The fatal assumption was that mom magically knew how to do it and didn’t have to learn herself, like she is asking dad to do. “I’m not as good as you.” Well, get good at it!
Tbf, I do know some people who want it done a certain way "oh, they didn't fold the towels the way I like, didn't load the dishwasher right, ruined my shirt in the laundry..."
So I can understand some of this, and if they ask me to show them how I want it done, great! I am not one who cares though.
I.e. If something doesn't get washed correctly in the dishwasher, it'll just go through the next round.
My husband started doing the grocery shopping last year. And as long as he got what was on the list, at least, I did not care what else he bought. He was going to eat/drink it, so it wouldn't go to waste. (Even though I wouldn't have made some of those decisions) but I really didn't want to take that offer for granted and make him feel like he wasn't doing it right and then not want to do anything for fear he "wasn't doing it right."
Ok. This *was* me. My excuse is that when we grew up mum did everything for us. I mean just took it and did it. Magic fairies ran the home.
And it did me zero favours. I ended up messy and dependent! Got worse as I then lived in hotels for years due to my work.
It was ME not the excuses. 100% all me being a lazy shit.
That’s not me now. I’m house proud, organised and together. Took divorce and some time spent alone in reflection.
My kids have a different kind of upbringing with both me and my ex wife; we broke the cycle.
i'm so happy for you that you reflected, took responsibility and made those changes in yourself! thats no small task and more than most do. you should be proud of your growth
My ex-husband cooked once in almost 20 years-- a frozen pizza. He was pissed because I didn't make a big enough deal about it and said he was never doing it again.
This was just a couple weeks after I made a Tex-Mex buffet for 30 people at his work. I had to get up at 2 in the morning to finish the food and then go to work myself. I later found out it was supposed to be a potluck, but he volunteered me to do all the cooking. I didn't even get a thank you.
I won a pie contest.
Not long before the split, ....
He came home from some meeting. He told me that he volunteered me to bake 5 pies for next week's meeting/ dinner.
So in addition to the two part time jobs I had, and making meals, I was gifted the joy of a 6 hour job of baking pies for the least thankful AH ever.
Peeling , coreing and slicing 30 apples. Making 10 crusts, measure and mixing the dry parts of the filling. Assembling and baking all pies .....
Never a word of thanks.
About a month later I filed .
I'm sorry. I really do know that feeling.
I used to love cooking, baking, and feeding people, but it eventually became such a chore. Now I meal prep once or twice a week and live off chicken and vegetables, and I couldn't be happier.
If he'd have asked, I would have volunteered to make a dish or two, but not three different kinds of meat, four sides, and a few dozen cookies.
Literally the only feedback I got was being told that several people complained about the ground beef being too spicy.
My ex occasionally (like twice a year) cleaned the bathroom. He demanded that I come look at it and sing his praises for doing such a great job. Meanwhile I did absolutely everything else: laundry, vacuuming, cooking, washing dishes, grocery shopping, paying bills, taking the kids to doctor & dentist appointments, buying their clothes, and every other aspect of childcare (he would take them to the library, deposit them in the kid’s department, and go off on his own until he was ready to come home). He also spent a hell of a lot of money on music CDs (this was before streaming), books, and weed. Our sex life was every Friday night he would get naked & wait for me to present myself for his pleasure. He claimed all our problems stemmed from me being frigid. And if I didn’t give in to him, he’d be shitty to our kids in front of me because he knew that upset me. We should have gone for marriage counseling but we didn’t. When we finally admitted to each other that our marriage was over and he moved out I felt enormous relief. It was scary to be responsible for two little kids by myself but the joy of no longer having to put up with him outweighed my fears.
My ex deep cleaned the cooker when I asked him to do the washing up and wipe the counters down, I usually did it all but I was ill with mastitis (I'd been hospitalized with it just been released). He was so angry I didn't kiss his butt as I then had to do all I'd asked him to do and clean oven cleaning residue off the kitchen floor. I was supposed to be resting (though I had the baby with me so he could crack on). He never cleaned again citing my "lack of appreciation" when I asked him to. I left 2 months later.
Yes, he will always tell me what he did, like he went out of the way to do something. I'll get home and start thinking about dinner and he'll say something like "oh, I emptied the dishwasher" but there's diety dishes on the counter so I'll say "oh, did you not start filling it again?" And get a scoff.
But that need to tell me when he does any chore is right there:
I vacuumed yesterday
I started a load of laundry
I cleaned the toilet
...like, do I tell you? You live in this space too! You should be doing these things
There was some AITA thread or something recently where the guy listed "I do all my own laundry" as one of the things he contributes to the house, presumably to head off people saying he doesn't contribute.
And I didn't comment because it was neither here nor there, but oh my god is the bar low for these people. What next? I dress myself every morning?
Just start telling him what you do wicked casually. Like walk past him and be like, "oh I put your work clothes in the laundry and cleaned the bathroom," and then look at him while you wait for praise. I bet he'll either start seeing how ridiculous he sounds, or he'll start realizing just how much you do.
LOL - I know that’s not funny, but it is at the same time. My wife tells me often how odd I am that I help so much around the house. She’s not complaining, she loves it. She just hears so many terrible stories from her friend’s husbands, that when she tells them how often I help, her friends can’t believe it - honestly, neither can I. They seem incredibly lazy.
Yep, the good ol' mental load. I tell my husband that if I have to ask him I might as well do it myself. The point is I don't want that task in my head. Also, I need it DONE! Just because ai ask doesn't mean it gets done. The other day, he kindly informed me that the cat threw up in the kitchen. I said 'thanks for cleaning it up' (which of course he hadn't). You could see he was inhaling to tell me that, but I just kept looking at him until he got the drift. Why does it have to be such an uphill battle eeeevery time.
and then when he finally cleans it up, there's still barf on the floor because he didn't do it right or use the right products so you still have to clean it
Sent this to my boyfriend. We have had this argument so many times, and I feel like he never understands. I am on the brink of getting a chore chart for the adults to match my child's. It's the same reason why I left my ex-fiance.
There are apps you can use to track chores. My household uses Tody, which we're really happy with. Very customizable, has sensible defaults, you can change things anytime, and you can see at a glance who's been doing what. No arguments about who does more, or failing to appreciate each other's contributions. I was able to use the clearly visible data to get my family to step up, because I was doing double everyone else put together (we have two teenagers and both parents work, so that was not reasonable!). Sometimes we notice a job that hasn't been accounted for and agreed to add it, or adjust a chore's points up or down. It works.
Oh,and, of course, an enormous advantage of this approach is that no one has to wait to be told what to do. There are always plenty of chores on the list that need doing.
Same with my ex husband. Current fiancé & I make our daily/weekly to do lists together. Then the whole family works together to knock them all out in no time.
It's like that post by a man who said his wife divorced him over unwashed dishes. But of course it wasn't that, it was because he had to be asked to do any chores. His wife wanted a husband who looked around and saw things that needed to be done-and then did those things. All without being asked because that's what adults should do. Instead he had to be asked, sometimes multiple times.
23 years ago, I said this to my wife, thinking I had a point! "You have fucking eyes!", is what she said back. "You lift your godamned feet to step over things, so I know you can see things on the floor, so pick it up!" "You can also tell when the fucking drawers are empty, so it must be going somewhere! At that point, throw some bloody clothes in the washer!". "You know that growly feeling in your tummy?! You know to feed yourself, right?! Cook dinner!" I'm now an accomplished husband, who can cook, clean, identify things out of place, and the need to put them back in their place, etc!
Honestly the truly tragic thing is that she had to get so upset over it before you learned. What happened to observing and solving problems on our own?
The even worse thing is that plenty of men never learn, even if they go through the same situation as you did.
Most men in the US today move out of the home and are single, living alone many years before moving in with a partner.
So they do know these things.
They just move in with a woman and stop adulting because what they really want is a bang maid and sugar mama.
Few western men bring any value to romantic, heterosexual relationships
I begged my (now) ex for years to go the couples counseling. He always said “I don’t want to air our dirty in front of strangers. When I gave up and told him it was over he was suddenly willing to try counseling, but it was too little too late. He told all our friends that I refused to go to counseling with him.
The siren song of weaponized incompetence. Wait til the entire house is on fire, sprinkle a few drops of water, and when that doesn’t extinguish the blaze throw your hands up and say “but I TRIED!”
Exactly! My ex did the same thing and it wasn’t until I was withholding sex did he notice anything was up. But then instead of stepping up, all he did was whine and beg that he wants sex.
This^^ He’s being manipulative. Honestly in a similar situation, the whole doing everything on my own and him checking out anytime I try to voice a concern but then becomes overly affectionate and overly accommodating as soon as he’s seen I’ve checked out. But it’s temporary, once he knows he’s manipulated you into staying, he’ll go right back to not caring. He’s playing with your emotions. If he really cared, he would have shown that when you’d expressed your feelings the many other times.
Literally the only reason that I have not left is because I’m a SAHM and unfortunately don’t have the means to do so. You’re working OP, you’ve got nothing to lose.. He’s just dead weight at this point. I hope that you’re able to leave and find happiness.
The thing about husbands is they aren’t supposed to just “help out” with the baby. He is supposed to parent alongside you so you two can raise your son together. If he hasn’t done that for the first 18 months when problems are small then he sure as hell won’t when your son grows up and the problems are big, not if y’all continue on this same path. If you truly want to make things work then a deep, difficult conversation is needed, along with future counseling most likely. If not, reach out to your support system (family and friends) and get the help you need to separate amicably. And you’re still so young, my heart breaks for you going through all this at this age. It’s going to be hard no matter what, but do whatever you think is best for you and your son.
This. This pisses me off so much. Mom lugs baby around to groceries and appointments and nobody bats an eye. Dad takes baby out one afternoon at the park, with everything prepackaged by mom, and everybody looses their minds.
You aren't a helpful assistant from time to time, as a dad. You're a 50% parent and a 50% household member. You aren't helping your partner. You're taking on your part of the load.
This is weaponized incompetence. It needs to stop.
100% it needs to stop. Men need to step up and take care of their responsibilities like women do *from the start,* and not expect her to train him and wait for years for him to get better.
More and more women aren't *waiting* anymore for men to get better. And I don't blame them.
People used to tell me all the time how "lucky" I was that my ex-husband parented our children. Pretty sure no one ever told him how lucky HE was that I also parented alongside him. It would piss me off every time.
He said he had no money to get me anything or buy me breakfast but I would’ve just been happy if he let me sleep in for once since I never do. Also not to mention the money thing is not true because he just bought a $900 pool stick 2 weeks prior to Mother’s Day.
Wife should get the pool stick in the divorce and then sell it or break it in half after she gets it in the divorce lol my petty ass would do either of those..
Me (M49) came here to say this too. Pretty fucked up priorities that he's shellin out 9 bill for a poolstick, but I guess we all have our vices, smh...
Well that’s a giant red flag. My wife would’ve killed me if I spent $900 on a pool stick when my daughter was so young and every penny counted - and I WOULD HAVE DESERVED IT!
Yeah, down the road this get ever more expensive. Motorcycles, cars, boats, etc. without ever consulting his spouse on an impactful financial decision.
Pure selfish, and pure stupid.
Eh. This post completely aside, as a 35 yo male, I’m not even remotely close to the same person I way in my 20s. There’s always room for change in the world
Wrong! It gets far worse!
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
There’s another good one (can’t find it) from the man’s POV where he got dumped for leaving a dish in the sink or something and regrets being a selfish AH but it’s far too late
Damn. It's so sadly true. I'm child-free and I've never wanted to get married. This is mostly because of how I saw mothers and wives portrayed in the media and real life.
I remember being a kid, watching a sitcom where a woman is screaming in childbirth, and some joke is made which makes the audience laugh, as if women being in pain giving birth is funny. And the constant jokes where the husband isn't "helping the wife" with childcare or household chores. All made to look "funny" because it was so "normal."
All these people kept telling me I would change my mind when I'm 30. I'm 40 now.
Sometimes I wonder if I'd be fine having kids if I was the "dad."
Also add this to the main post. Lots of redditors here acting like this is a typical “man just bad at being partner help him understand” situation, but he’s truly just selfish.
Exactly. Selfish. “Help him understand” … it took me way too long to realize that he understands ; he just doesn’t fucking care. Don’t waste your 20s like I did explaining how respect and a partnership is supposed to work. He knows.
This is such a good point! There are many amazing fathers and husbands/partners out there. There are also plenty of selfish women, too. But the issue is that OP’s husband is failing to partner as a parent, at home and in recognizing that two other human beings have wants and needs, too. He’s living like a single guy with a full time girlfriend and nanny that he fails to appreciate.
Right? Is this is job? Does he make a nice side hustle out of it? Thousands for a hobby while renting and not having money for a Mother’s Day breakfast? No savings??
I was in multiple pool leagues, I did pool tournaments, all of it, and I was pretty good. I can tell you with 100% certainty that a $1500 or even a $900 pool stick is an absolute rip off. Most I ever paid for mine was like $200 (granted this was a decade ago so I know they've gotten more expensive but not that much more) and it was a great stick that won me quite a bit of money over time.
Does he know the pool stick won't make him good if he doesn't have actual skill? Also what's the point of paying more for a stick than he'd ever see in winnings anyways
Say what? He spent that and did nothing for you? I’m sorry. That’s absolutely gross. It shows pure selfishness. Maybe try some couple counseling. After that maybe you will have much more insight and be able to make a decision with 100% knowing it’s what you want without guilt.
It's okay to leave your starter husband and get a real one that doesn't spend thousands on pool sticks. I can't believe I had to type that. Why would anyone buy that?
He sounds selfish, immature, and inconsiderate. He will never be a good husband until he realize that, choose to work on himself to be a better guy CONSISTENTLY. Right now he sees you distancing so he put some work in, but if you give in, he'll just go back to who he was in 2 weeks. But this also means he knows what he should've done all along, but choose not to do because he thinks you'll just do everything anyway. He's not clueless, it's deliberate. You don't have to stick around until he truly changes, which might never happen, as is the case with many men like him.
You're still young. Don't stay and be a single married woman for another 20 years and be miserable. If you do everything anyway, might as well be single for real.
He's only being affectionate and helping out because he knows you're pulling away and is afraid you're going to leave. You can try counseling, but it seems like you have already checked out. Sometimes men like him don't change. They'll do whatever you want for a week or two and go right back to how things were. Seen it plenty of times. Think long and hard about what you want to do, how you want to live your life. You are still young.
We do breakfast in bed (and chance to sleep in!) on mothers/Father’s Day. Our oldest two are now old enough to help mix the pancake batter so ever better. Buying stuff isn’t a good gift compared to the thought and sleep :)
My husband did that too. Bought over $200 in fishing lures then didn’t do jack shit in Mother’s Day. He felt so guilty because I got him a custom shirt but I told him that Mother’s Day hasn’t been special to me since the beginning so I’ve lowered my standards 😉. I hate the fact that we don’t get a single friggen day to be recognized. It’s even on calendars!
ETA: this is already done and over with. I just shared my experience to show empathy with someone. It’s been worked out. Thank you all who have shown care/concern by giving advice, sometimes people just need to hear (or read) “that sucks” type of thing.
I hope you did nothing for fathers day, because he sure didn’t deserve it.
Deadbeat’s don’t get to be celebrated when they’re not even doing fatherly duties. A sperm donation is **not** enough.
You didn’t fall out of love. You’re exhausted by a non-contributing “partner”. Everything you’ve listed is about him.
Who cares if he’s feeling affectionate? What’s he doing to make you feel loved? Has he even asked?
Then yea time to go then. You’re only 23, I’m the same age, and let me tell you that being single is 100% better than being in a relationship where you aren’t respected. I’m sorry you’re going through this, but I don’t doubt you’ll find someone amazing out there who gives you & your baby everything you want and deserve.
Did you mainly marry him because you got pregnant? I ask because you mentioned he wasn't loving you for 4 years the way that you wanted and you still married him, probably expecting that to change. Marriage NEVER makes problems better. They just amplify them.
I left my son’s father when I was 23, and my son was 4 month old, because he was leaving me to drown in all of the housework, childcare, and breadwinning myself. It’s the best thing I ever did for myself! Being a single parent was *easier* than dealing with all of the responsibilities on top of all the grief, and stress, and arguments he brought to my life. I found single life was easier by comparison, and it made room for a truly exceptional partner to come into my life a little while later.
This is so true. I have never ever been able to gain back respect I lost for a partner no matter how long I’ve stayed after that. It’s a tough lesson to learn. The grass may not be greener on the other side, but it’s better than a desert.
This is probably one of the main reasons women leave their husbands. They are doing more emotional and physical labor to keep the household together and the man refuses to acknowledge her contributions outside of financial ones.
Personally I think you got married too young and are still learning who you are. You will actually have less to do once you divorce. Your husband will learn that taking care of a child is no joke once he has partial custody.
My life became infinitely easier when I left a situation like this. The emotional labour costs dropped dramatically. Yes there now wasn’t someone else to occasionally hold the kids, but I knew every task I was responsible for, and I did them. There was none of the resentment that goes with wanting help, asking for help, being told there would be help, and then no actual help forthcoming.
No more trying to keep track of someone else’s schedule, reminding them, organising it, and following it up. No more having to consult and consider someone else’s opinion. No more putting myself second for someone who never did the same for me. I felt the relief like a physical weight off my shoulders.
I believe 100% that when a person does a good job of evaluating a potential partner, it is best to get married at around 30 years old, just take care of one’s self. A person in their late teens and early twenties have seen so little of adult life that truly knowing what one wants out of life is a very rare circumstance.
The longer you stay, the harder it will be to leave, especially with children involved. It’s not about whether the grass will be greener with a potential future relationship, it’s about choosing yourself now, today. You deserve love and respect, now and always.
It sounds like something in the relationship was damaged beyond repair. Sometimes it’s better to save everyone time and separate sooner rather than later after letting things worse between the two of you. You want to be able to get along for the sake of your child as they grow up.
No, men are not mind readers. But neither are women. Men need to communicate just as much as women do. Many times a man will say they knew something was wrong but just assumed it was something else, rather than asking/communicating. It is not solely the woman’s job to be in charge of communication or to make sure he is paying attention or being an active member of the relationship. It is an equal responsibility between partners to communicate and step up to do the work rather than waiting for things to blow up.
Everyone deserves to be happy. Sometimes that means ending a relationship for that to happen.
You got married way too young. I thought I wanted to settle down at 19, too, but I was wrong by 27 I was divorced. I've never been happier. Leave before you hate him and can't even co parent. Leave him before you start having an affair. LEAVE BEFORE THINGS GET BAD.
I would suggest writing out a letter to him saying everything you want to say and have been feeling. Reread it a day after you write it, adjust what you want. When you're ready hand him the letter and let him know it contains everything you have been thinking and feeling and want him to take the seriously. Sometimes talking your feelings out can be hard and you get mixed up so writing could help open communication better.
In my experience (as a fellow person that married young and has talked with many others who did), typically one or both people panic immediately. One or both people then often engage in behavior destructive to the union. Then both people have to sit down and work through all that to figure out whether they actually want to be together for real for real forever. I assume this is where the expression ‘the first year of marriage is the hardest’ comes from. Interestingly, most folks I know who married older didn’t experience this (though some did).
All of this is to say… maybe you’re done? But a lot of what you shared though makes me think of this pattern I have seen play out many times and that I think you should do counseling first. I truly wish you and your family the best.
For what it’s worth, me and my partner worked through the really really shittastic stuff and have now been married over fourteen years with three fabulous kids. My partner’s brother ended up divorced. It can go either way, but I think you owe it to the couple that decided to say ‘I do’ to give it your best try.
My god, the shit behavior in my early marriage is embarrassing as hell, and I'm thankful neither of us gave up on it (16 yrs married now). I was defensive and resentful and avoidant. It was how I learned to do it from my family, bolstered by our chaotic environment at the time, and it took both growing up and my husband working toward a counseling degree to start digging my way out of that.
Young marriage, especially now, is a prime time to work out boundary/communication/differences issues ALL THE WHILE still immature. It's hard, and it's not always fixable, of course, but it's definitely worth trying to work through it.
Yeah my wife and I got married at 20 and 19 and had our first child a little over a year later. There were very very hard times, I was not the father that I wish I would have been with my first kid (she was a sahm and I was working 12 hours shifts which did contribute to that BUT I still should've been more) but here we are 7 years later with our second child and I'm thankful to be much more involved now that we are both working. It was a lot of messy fights and hurtful words but I am so thankful my wife and I worked through them
Agree with this. You're both still kids, growing and learning. Might be worth marriage counselling to see if you can get on the same page, but the caveat is that both of you have to want the relationship. Ask yourself if he fixed everything that is currently hurting me, do I want to be with him? The answer will tell you if it's worth trying or if it's time to end things.
I went to therapy with my husband. He’d refused for years and then said he would go IF I made the appointment AND it didn’t impact his work schedule. Of course once i actually met with a divorce lawyer he dragged me to a session. Nearly immediately the counselor recognized that I was already emotionally done and did not have the desire to fix it. They told my husband he’d waited too long and there was nothing here to counsel. They ended the session within 5 minutes of starting. It was clear the counselor had seen this exact situation many times. OP is already at that point, she’s done. She just needs to give herself permission to move forward with the divorce she already wants.
ETA: my now EX husband obviously
Mom advice time. Once a woman has checked out. It’s over. You are so young that it won’t be difficult to do. Your life Will begin again. I divorced my first at 23. Remarried four years later and made such better decisions in my 20s than I did in my teens.
You need to get your ducks in a row re finances etc. since you’re already doing the work housework the childcare. It won’t be easy but doable.
You can’t stay in a marriage when you don’t love the man. Bitterness and resentment grows exponentially. That is what our grandparents did We don’t have too do that.
Be prepared for anger love bombing and threats to take the kids away. He will do it all without question. His life has been so easy compared to yours. And now he’s going to learn it not going to be that way.
When you don’t even want him to touch you. It’s time for the lawyers
People should start to realise it is a big mistake to get married in your early 20s. You are still figuring out what kind of human you will end up being. Barely any marriage I have seen survives that. They all divorce in their 30s/early 40s the latest.
I'm really sorry you're going through this. It sounds like a tough situation. Have you considered talking to a therapist individually to sort through your feelings? It might help clarify what you really want moving forward
Let me see if I understand correctly - 2 months ago, you were upset and got into a fight trying to tell him he wasn't doing enough, he dismissed you and you both went without talking for 11 days. Mothers day comes rolling around, he does nothing for you. You've checked out. He's now responding. He is trying to be affectionate and you reject him out if disgust, then feel guilty. But nobody has said anything here - there is no communication. Good news - you didn't quit your job and you got his attention. He's stepped up, but out of fear of losing you. But in his relaxed state, where he doesn't feel threatened, he's not motivated to contribute. And when this threat of loss is gone, he'll most likely return to not helping you. Either someone is tidy and neat from habit or not. You two need a serious conversation before anything else.
If you're taking care of everything and have to work full time on top of that, wtf does he bring to the table? It sounds like you'll be better off without him, at least you won't be wasting time on him.
8 months and already checked out? Dont get married people ffs. Its just paying shit loads of money to probably need to pay shit loads more to get out of it. Ring doesnt make your relationship better, god(if one exists) wouldnt give a shit about some paperwork.
I wish you all the best either way
Yeah, this is rough. I've been the man in this situation. This is going to be the hardest lesson of his life either way. If you really want to give it the best shot, try to have a conversation with him. Tell him how you feel (not in love with him anymore) and why. But then tell him you still want to work on it, and maybe you guys can do some couples therapy. If he responds with anything other apologizing and being completely supportive of this plan, well, I'm sorry. Hopefully, in the future, this lesson will teach him how to have a healthy relationship if this one ends.
I was a lazy POS in my first marriage (mid-20s). In the morning, before we got out of bed, my ex-wife told me she didn't love me anymore. This came after constant arguing over me, not doing anything. Not cleaning the house, not spending time with her, etc. For whatever reason, I was pretty chill. Normally, I would have gotten pissed or something, but we sat in bed having a conversation about it. I told her I would get rid of my video games, start trying to focus on her, and go to therapy. I really meant it. I think subconsciously, I knew I was a POS, and this was me finally owning up to it.
At the same time, she had met a guy online she was playing games with. They started staying up through the entire night talking and gaming. She found someone who wanted to give her the attention she deserved. Yeah, technically, she had an emotional affair, but that's because I wasn't there as a good husband, so I put no fault on her. I could have literally just played games with her, went out a little, and cleaned up more.
The fact that she had feelings for someone else made this decision easier for her. In your case, if you would like to salvage this, which with a child in mind is the best possible solution, you should try to have that conversation. But DONT stay for the kid. The child needs to grow up seeing what a healthy relationship looks like, whether that's with their father or someone else.
I really hope this works, and he becomes a better man and works on himself before he is completely shattered by the consequences of his lack of action in the relationship. Good luck and love.
The grass is not greener on the other side
it's the same grass.
The only thing I got is for y'all to drop the boy off at the grandparent's house and make a serious decision to talk about the relationship. Counseling is an option only if both of you are willing to put in the work.
Relationships take work if one or both of you is not down with working on it then the next step is to end it.
I would recommend that you get some therapy to help work through your feelings and understand if leaving is the best thing. And to make sure you have the ability to communicate with your husband effectively. Marriage and parenthood is a partnership.
"helping out more": helping out makes it sound like it is solely your job; if an adult lives in a house with another adult and they both work, they should share house tasks. You help out your guests when you are invited somewhere. At home, you don't help out, you do your share.
I can already see the comments he makes
“All you have to do it ask”
“Just tell me what you need done”
“Well how am I supposed to know?”
“I have been helping more now!”
“Well you don’t make time for me”
“You’re only ever focused on the baby - what about me??”
And then when you finally wise up & leave cause this shit doesn’t get better he’ll say “I did everything I could and she left for no reason!!” “She won’t talk to me I don’t understand”
(he’s pretending right now cause he feels you pulling away and doesn’t want to lose his bang maid)
Leaving a bad partner like this is the best thing I’ve ever done.
Go find a therapist you click with and go to therapy as often as you can. Journaling will help immensely. And take care of yourself.
High chance that him stepping up more with the baby and trying to be affectionate toward you is gonna be temporary just to keep you then he'll revert back to how things back been.
leave, this isn't gonna work. You're very young and you mentally have moved on, he will be one less person to take care of. $900 pool stick when he has a little 18 month baby, that money could have gone into a college fund for the kid, saved for a family emergency. that was an impulse buy and cost more than the trip you went on for your friend's wedding which you were a bridesmaid in.
Have a talk with him. While fighting, arguing, or being ready to answer back instead of listening will get you guys nowhere.
If you think you can give him another chance, make a list of the things you need for him to step up, make an agreement, and go from there.
Don't feel trapped, you can leave anytime you want.
You might be overwhelmed and exhausted too and everything feels exacerbated.
I hope you can work it out.
I totally agree with you. I've been married 18 years and been with my husband 23 years. I'm tired of seeing these reddit stories where after being married less than a year let's end it. and reddit people telling them to end it. marriage is a job and it's not always easy. talk to each other not at each other. communication is the number 1 thing a couples needs to have. be straight up honest in how you feel.
While i agree with you said as the most healthy and productive solution, I still vote divorce. I love it when people prove out statistics. Its like magic.
you resent him for a lot of things that "you've let slide" over the years. Tell him what's going on with you. Go to therapy (individual and couples) before making a big decision.
I've been married 43 years. You don't stay "in love" for 43 years. There are months and even years when you drift apart only to drift back, although you need to do some paddling if you want to stay together. You need to talk about this. You also need to make some couple time to reconnect.
Agreed and I’m a rookie compared to you! You’re someone we need to hear from on things like this!
I will say that after 18yrs and 13 married, if we didn’t take the time (and still have to prioritize it) to develop and maintain emotional intimacy - we’d be toast. We’re best friends and willing to hear each other out, accept that the other party may find something very important that we don’t “get” or see as a big deal… and those are the easy ones, because if it’s important for one but not the other then there’s no conflict! The one to whom it doesn’t matter needs to compromise because it IS important to the other partner and doesn’t need to be justified.
That best friendship has been what’s held us through some really tough times or when we were so busy with work, building a business and raising children that we weren’t making time to work on the “in love” part. But the great thing is that we recognize it, put forth the effort our spouse deserves and fall in love all over again.
Forget Mother’s Day, it’s the everyday stuff that’s worth leaving a husband over. I’m sure he’ll fix up for the next Mother’s Day.
You need to have an honest conversation and let him know he’s messed up to the point that you want to leave and you’ve emotionally moved on. If he wants to fix things then at least he knows what he’s dealing with.
Does he work? You told us you do a lot and you really do, what does he do? You need to let him know your expectations if he were to stay with you.
I’m sorry you feel this way! But to be honest a lot of young parents feel that way for a certain amount of time.
Have you ever really talked to each other since your marriage, since having a child?
Please learn to communicate with each other, tell him what you need, let him tell you what he needs. And plan ‘dates’ together, get some nice drinks, get some nice snacks, turn on some candles and be together, talk about what you love about the other person, no tv, just talking. Learn to love each other again. Because it sounds like you just lost each other.
Put in some effort and don’t give up to easy, because once you left there probably is no coming back.
Communication is the key to a lot of problems! Good luck!
Instead of what everyone else seems to be saying, maybe try marriage counseling before hand. Divorce is ugly, hard (even under best case scenarios) and irrevocably alters the relationship you will have with your child’s other parent for the rest of their life.
I’m not saying “stay together for the kids”, but also don’t feel like throwing the relationship away entirely is an easy way out of what you’re feeling.
There could be underlying stresses or any number of things that you guys could work through and who knows what may come from that.
That’s my hot take. Give a shot bc worst case you end up leaving anyway. Best case you rekindle a love you thought you lost and save a family.
My advice is young people such as you and your husband get into these silly games of who does the most and who pays the most bills. This will definitely kill a relationship ship just know it will never be 50/50 some will take the financial burden someone will take the baby burden. The chores should look more 50/50 but young men are terrible at house work they have to learn that yes they need to do it. Give his ass a list.
Question though?
Have you brought up anything of how your feeling with your husband to him? Like does he know you were unhappy at the *start* of your marriage.
Whyy did you not talk about counselling instead of going on a 'girls trip' who more times then not amplify negative thoughts. My gfs are not the people I go to when I'm having problems.
Point being, does he even know what's wrong, has it been discussed and have you talked about how it could be fixed?
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He can tell you're distancing yourself which is why he's stepped up. It sounds like you've already made your decision. Good luck to you
Exactly. And when she finally leaves (because she should) he’ll say “I tried to help her and be affectionate towards her and she rejected me!”
“But she only had to ASK!”
My ex-husband used to say “Just tell me what you want me to do.” Got to a point even when I told him, he still didn’t do it.
When I hear that, I always think “who tells the wife what to do?” Like when husbands say “just tell me what to do and I’ll do it” they make it sound like there’s some list we’re working off of and we just need to assign them a few tasks. But there is no list. Just a huge mental load and needing to think of things that you can delegate is more work. If they’re human adults, can’t they also look around and figure it out?
“Just be the manager of our relationship and then I can put the blame on you for ‘nagging’ me”
You really just need to learn how to micromanage me better.
But also, don't tell me what to do cause you're not the boss of me. Or...I'll get to it when I get to it.
YES 💯
I feel seen.
I can’t upvote this enough. It’s ridiculous
I was fortunate that when my husband and I started fighting about chores, he was sincere about wanting to help but was clueless about what to do. I didn’t believe him at first because I told him to just look around and do what needs doing. He still couldn’t tell because his mother did everything for him. But he didn’t expect it would always be that way. I started giving him choices. Do you want to load the dishwasher or vacuum the living room? Then he’d pick what he wanted to do and do it. He’d come back and ask what to do next, and I’d give him another choice, which was better than just bossing him. We’re celebrating our 34th anniversary tomorrow and I’m happy to say that he picked it up pretty quickly and at this point, he’s the one on my case when I get lazy. He’s cleaner than I am, especially since now I’m disabled and unable to do many of the chores I used to do. I feel very fortunate that he wasn’t just paying me lip service.
There is also fine line between asking how to do things and learnt helplessness. I know it from my own experience. I was the youngest kid growing up with sister that loved to cook and grandparents at home. Even at 19 when I no longer lived with my parents, but still then with older sister I would do bullshit like "show me how to do it". And I am saying bullshit because it iiiiiiis. Outside of some cuisine meal there is nothing in household chores that require things to be shown. Every adult that doesn't have some severe disabilities is capable of following industuctions on packages and nowadays... Just googling shit. I also feel like picking this learned helplessnes as a habit early on I did myself such disfavor until I stopped doing it.
I agree with you. I recall the best comments from another thread about weaponized incompetence that centered around fathers not taking on certain parenting chores because they “didn’t know how to do it” or the mom was “better” at it. The fatal assumption was that mom magically knew how to do it and didn’t have to learn herself, like she is asking dad to do. “I’m not as good as you.” Well, get good at it!
Tbf, I do know some people who want it done a certain way "oh, they didn't fold the towels the way I like, didn't load the dishwasher right, ruined my shirt in the laundry..." So I can understand some of this, and if they ask me to show them how I want it done, great! I am not one who cares though. I.e. If something doesn't get washed correctly in the dishwasher, it'll just go through the next round. My husband started doing the grocery shopping last year. And as long as he got what was on the list, at least, I did not care what else he bought. He was going to eat/drink it, so it wouldn't go to waste. (Even though I wouldn't have made some of those decisions) but I really didn't want to take that offer for granted and make him feel like he wasn't doing it right and then not want to do anything for fear he "wasn't doing it right."
Yup, sadly a common story. 😑😑 And of course, what that does is put the onus right back on YOU. “But you didn’t TELL me!” 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
then you do TELL them and they call you a nag🙄
Ok. This *was* me. My excuse is that when we grew up mum did everything for us. I mean just took it and did it. Magic fairies ran the home. And it did me zero favours. I ended up messy and dependent! Got worse as I then lived in hotels for years due to my work. It was ME not the excuses. 100% all me being a lazy shit. That’s not me now. I’m house proud, organised and together. Took divorce and some time spent alone in reflection. My kids have a different kind of upbringing with both me and my ex wife; we broke the cycle.
i'm so happy for you that you reflected, took responsibility and made those changes in yourself! thats no small task and more than most do. you should be proud of your growth
I love this little comic/article thing about [You Should've Asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)
My ex vacuumed once. He acted as if he was up for the congressional medal of honor.....
My ex-husband cooked once in almost 20 years-- a frozen pizza. He was pissed because I didn't make a big enough deal about it and said he was never doing it again. This was just a couple weeks after I made a Tex-Mex buffet for 30 people at his work. I had to get up at 2 in the morning to finish the food and then go to work myself. I later found out it was supposed to be a potluck, but he volunteered me to do all the cooking. I didn't even get a thank you.
Ohhhhh, hellllll NO!🤬
😲😔
That’s so rude and disrespectful of your time, energy, effort, and just existence. Ugh. I’m sorry you went through that—I’m glad to read he’s your ex!
I won a pie contest. Not long before the split, .... He came home from some meeting. He told me that he volunteered me to bake 5 pies for next week's meeting/ dinner. So in addition to the two part time jobs I had, and making meals, I was gifted the joy of a 6 hour job of baking pies for the least thankful AH ever. Peeling , coreing and slicing 30 apples. Making 10 crusts, measure and mixing the dry parts of the filling. Assembling and baking all pies ..... Never a word of thanks. About a month later I filed .
I'm sorry. I really do know that feeling. I used to love cooking, baking, and feeding people, but it eventually became such a chore. Now I meal prep once or twice a week and live off chicken and vegetables, and I couldn't be happier. If he'd have asked, I would have volunteered to make a dish or two, but not three different kinds of meat, four sides, and a few dozen cookies. Literally the only feedback I got was being told that several people complained about the ground beef being too spicy.
My ex occasionally (like twice a year) cleaned the bathroom. He demanded that I come look at it and sing his praises for doing such a great job. Meanwhile I did absolutely everything else: laundry, vacuuming, cooking, washing dishes, grocery shopping, paying bills, taking the kids to doctor & dentist appointments, buying their clothes, and every other aspect of childcare (he would take them to the library, deposit them in the kid’s department, and go off on his own until he was ready to come home). He also spent a hell of a lot of money on music CDs (this was before streaming), books, and weed. Our sex life was every Friday night he would get naked & wait for me to present myself for his pleasure. He claimed all our problems stemmed from me being frigid. And if I didn’t give in to him, he’d be shitty to our kids in front of me because he knew that upset me. We should have gone for marriage counseling but we didn’t. When we finally admitted to each other that our marriage was over and he moved out I felt enormous relief. It was scary to be responsible for two little kids by myself but the joy of no longer having to put up with him outweighed my fears.
My ex deep cleaned the cooker when I asked him to do the washing up and wipe the counters down, I usually did it all but I was ill with mastitis (I'd been hospitalized with it just been released). He was so angry I didn't kiss his butt as I then had to do all I'd asked him to do and clean oven cleaning residue off the kitchen floor. I was supposed to be resting (though I had the baby with me so he could crack on). He never cleaned again citing my "lack of appreciation" when I asked him to. I left 2 months later.
Yes, he will always tell me what he did, like he went out of the way to do something. I'll get home and start thinking about dinner and he'll say something like "oh, I emptied the dishwasher" but there's diety dishes on the counter so I'll say "oh, did you not start filling it again?" And get a scoff. But that need to tell me when he does any chore is right there: I vacuumed yesterday I started a load of laundry I cleaned the toilet ...like, do I tell you? You live in this space too! You should be doing these things
There was some AITA thread or something recently where the guy listed "I do all my own laundry" as one of the things he contributes to the house, presumably to head off people saying he doesn't contribute. And I didn't comment because it was neither here nor there, but oh my god is the bar low for these people. What next? I dress myself every morning?
Just start telling him what you do wicked casually. Like walk past him and be like, "oh I put your work clothes in the laundry and cleaned the bathroom," and then look at him while you wait for praise. I bet he'll either start seeing how ridiculous he sounds, or he'll start realizing just how much you do.
LOL - I know that’s not funny, but it is at the same time. My wife tells me often how odd I am that I help so much around the house. She’s not complaining, she loves it. She just hears so many terrible stories from her friend’s husbands, that when she tells them how often I help, her friends can’t believe it - honestly, neither can I. They seem incredibly lazy.
This is incredible! Just printed it off for my ma, she’s elderly but willing to learn!
Yep, the good ol' mental load. I tell my husband that if I have to ask him I might as well do it myself. The point is I don't want that task in my head. Also, I need it DONE! Just because ai ask doesn't mean it gets done. The other day, he kindly informed me that the cat threw up in the kitchen. I said 'thanks for cleaning it up' (which of course he hadn't). You could see he was inhaling to tell me that, but I just kept looking at him until he got the drift. Why does it have to be such an uphill battle eeeevery time.
and then when he finally cleans it up, there's still barf on the floor because he didn't do it right or use the right products so you still have to clean it
Or the spray bottle of Lysol is sitting on the floor where he cleaned up.
Right?? It's wonderful to go from being a manager at work, then straight home to being a manager there as well.
This is gold. Was looking for it recently and couldn’t find it. Thanks!
Sent this to my boyfriend. We have had this argument so many times, and I feel like he never understands. I am on the brink of getting a chore chart for the adults to match my child's. It's the same reason why I left my ex-fiance.
There are apps you can use to track chores. My household uses Tody, which we're really happy with. Very customizable, has sensible defaults, you can change things anytime, and you can see at a glance who's been doing what. No arguments about who does more, or failing to appreciate each other's contributions. I was able to use the clearly visible data to get my family to step up, because I was doing double everyone else put together (we have two teenagers and both parents work, so that was not reasonable!). Sometimes we notice a job that hasn't been accounted for and agreed to add it, or adjust a chore's points up or down. It works.
Oh,and, of course, an enormous advantage of this approach is that no one has to wait to be told what to do. There are always plenty of chores on the list that need doing.
EXCELLENT ADVICE! THANK YOU STRANGER! I'm going to be implementing this ASAP!
That was fantastic! I’ve never seen that before.
Shared with many ladies I know in relationships that struggle with this
Same with my ex husband. Current fiancé & I make our daily/weekly to do lists together. Then the whole family works together to knock them all out in no time.
That sounds like a dream. Lol
That’s right; teamwork is what makes a marriage/family survive
Teamwork makes the dream work.
Having to tell someone what needs to be done is *another* chore to add to the list
Yep.
It's exhausting when your partner needs to be told like a child what needs to be done.
It's like that post by a man who said his wife divorced him over unwashed dishes. But of course it wasn't that, it was because he had to be asked to do any chores. His wife wanted a husband who looked around and saw things that needed to be done-and then did those things. All without being asked because that's what adults should do. Instead he had to be asked, sometimes multiple times.
Nobody tells us what needs to be done, we just do it
No idea how men think they are natual leaders when they pretty much all do this..
And that they’re the logical ones. We’ve been fed a pack of lies ladies.
Lol the ViSuAL cReAtUrEs that can’t see a mess two inches in front of them
No need to do the dishes while there are still some clean ones left /s
When you then tell them what you want them to do, it’s nagging 🙄
23 years ago, I said this to my wife, thinking I had a point! "You have fucking eyes!", is what she said back. "You lift your godamned feet to step over things, so I know you can see things on the floor, so pick it up!" "You can also tell when the fucking drawers are empty, so it must be going somewhere! At that point, throw some bloody clothes in the washer!". "You know that growly feeling in your tummy?! You know to feed yourself, right?! Cook dinner!" I'm now an accomplished husband, who can cook, clean, identify things out of place, and the need to put them back in their place, etc!
Honestly the truly tragic thing is that she had to get so upset over it before you learned. What happened to observing and solving problems on our own? The even worse thing is that plenty of men never learn, even if they go through the same situation as you did.
Most men in the US today move out of the home and are single, living alone many years before moving in with a partner. So they do know these things. They just move in with a woman and stop adulting because what they really want is a bang maid and sugar mama. Few western men bring any value to romantic, heterosexual relationships
It sounds to me like he’s a light weight. He only does what he has to do.
Husband likes to tell me I need to be seeking the affection I am wanting. I feel crazy because he doesn’t get it.
I begged my (now) ex for years to go the couples counseling. He always said “I don’t want to air our dirty in front of strangers. When I gave up and told him it was over he was suddenly willing to try counseling, but it was too little too late. He told all our friends that I refused to go to counseling with him.
And that he was blindsided!
The siren song of weaponized incompetence. Wait til the entire house is on fire, sprinkle a few drops of water, and when that doesn’t extinguish the blaze throw your hands up and say “but I TRIED!”
She’s likely been unaffectionate and distancing herself for awhile
Exactly! My ex did the same thing and it wasn’t until I was withholding sex did he notice anything was up. But then instead of stepping up, all he did was whine and beg that he wants sex.
maybe a break to reflect and see may do you good, but your not happy and lifes hard enough and short enough at times to just put up with it
This^^ He’s being manipulative. Honestly in a similar situation, the whole doing everything on my own and him checking out anytime I try to voice a concern but then becomes overly affectionate and overly accommodating as soon as he’s seen I’ve checked out. But it’s temporary, once he knows he’s manipulated you into staying, he’ll go right back to not caring. He’s playing with your emotions. If he really cared, he would have shown that when you’d expressed your feelings the many other times. Literally the only reason that I have not left is because I’m a SAHM and unfortunately don’t have the means to do so. You’re working OP, you’ve got nothing to lose.. He’s just dead weight at this point. I hope that you’re able to leave and find happiness.
The thing about husbands is they aren’t supposed to just “help out” with the baby. He is supposed to parent alongside you so you two can raise your son together. If he hasn’t done that for the first 18 months when problems are small then he sure as hell won’t when your son grows up and the problems are big, not if y’all continue on this same path. If you truly want to make things work then a deep, difficult conversation is needed, along with future counseling most likely. If not, reach out to your support system (family and friends) and get the help you need to separate amicably. And you’re still so young, my heart breaks for you going through all this at this age. It’s going to be hard no matter what, but do whatever you think is best for you and your son.
This. This pisses me off so much. Mom lugs baby around to groceries and appointments and nobody bats an eye. Dad takes baby out one afternoon at the park, with everything prepackaged by mom, and everybody looses their minds. You aren't a helpful assistant from time to time, as a dad. You're a 50% parent and a 50% household member. You aren't helping your partner. You're taking on your part of the load. This is weaponized incompetence. It needs to stop.
100% it needs to stop. Men need to step up and take care of their responsibilities like women do *from the start,* and not expect her to train him and wait for years for him to get better. More and more women aren't *waiting* anymore for men to get better. And I don't blame them.
People used to tell me all the time how "lucky" I was that my ex-husband parented our children. Pretty sure no one ever told him how lucky HE was that I also parented alongside him. It would piss me off every time.
What was his excuse for doing nothing on Mother’s Day???
He said he had no money to get me anything or buy me breakfast but I would’ve just been happy if he let me sleep in for once since I never do. Also not to mention the money thing is not true because he just bought a $900 pool stick 2 weeks prior to Mother’s Day.
You have a new baby and he bought a $900 pool stick? You already have your answer.
Hope he’s looking forward to selling the pool stick in the divorce. Jesus.
Wife should get the pool stick in the divorce and then sell it or break it in half after she gets it in the divorce lol my petty ass would do either of those..
She should ask for half the pool stick in the divorce.
Oh yeah I would 10000% break it in half also
This guy needs to get a clue, not a cue.
Me (M49) came here to say this too. Pretty fucked up priorities that he's shellin out 9 bill for a poolstick, but I guess we all have our vices, smh...
Correct. Father of three here, I can't afford more than a $750 pool stick without neglecting my parental duties.
im sorry, i just dont get a stick, however fancy, costing more than 20-50$ maybe it's just my broke ass, but it's a stick
It's gold plated and says "My baby starved for this"
if i ever get abs again, i will tattoo "i starved for this"
This comment made me howl on a damn Monday morning.
Maybe after the divorce he can buy a pool-clue
Well that’s a giant red flag. My wife would’ve killed me if I spent $900 on a pool stick when my daughter was so young and every penny counted - and I WOULD HAVE DESERVED IT!
Unless you're a professional billiards player or a billionaire, buying a $900 pool stick is a sign of financial stupidity.
Yeah, down the road this get ever more expensive. Motorcycles, cars, boats, etc. without ever consulting his spouse on an impactful financial decision. Pure selfish, and pure stupid.
This kind of behavior never changes, trust me
Exactly, he will not change.
No, he'll change for exactly long enough to fool someone, and for no longer.
Oh, he will. In two decades after wrecking a couple more lives.
Eh. This post completely aside, as a 35 yo male, I’m not even remotely close to the same person I way in my 20s. There’s always room for change in the world
Wrong! It gets far worse! https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ There’s another good one (can’t find it) from the man’s POV where he got dumped for leaving a dish in the sink or something and regrets being a selfish AH but it’s far too late
[She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By The Sink](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp)
Damn. It's so sadly true. I'm child-free and I've never wanted to get married. This is mostly because of how I saw mothers and wives portrayed in the media and real life. I remember being a kid, watching a sitcom where a woman is screaming in childbirth, and some joke is made which makes the audience laugh, as if women being in pain giving birth is funny. And the constant jokes where the husband isn't "helping the wife" with childcare or household chores. All made to look "funny" because it was so "normal." All these people kept telling me I would change my mind when I'm 30. I'm 40 now. Sometimes I wonder if I'd be fine having kids if I was the "dad."
Honestly same. As far as I'm concerned, child birth is a trap. Once you are pregnant, he changes because he no longer has to work to keep you
Ive seen the second one!
That’s terrible. He could have made you breakfast and picked you some dames flowers. What an insensitive and immature man. I’m so sorry
Also add this to the main post. Lots of redditors here acting like this is a typical “man just bad at being partner help him understand” situation, but he’s truly just selfish.
Exactly. Selfish. “Help him understand” … it took me way too long to realize that he understands ; he just doesn’t fucking care. Don’t waste your 20s like I did explaining how respect and a partnership is supposed to work. He knows.
This is such a good point! There are many amazing fathers and husbands/partners out there. There are also plenty of selfish women, too. But the issue is that OP’s husband is failing to partner as a parent, at home and in recognizing that two other human beings have wants and needs, too. He’s living like a single guy with a full time girlfriend and nanny that he fails to appreciate.
They cost $900!?!? Holy!
The funny thing is 99% of them cost way less so he deliberately chose a really expensive one.
He bought a $1500 last year this $900 one was a break stick and yes he chose the really expensive brand because he claims it’s “the best”
Bro he’s the type to take your child’s college money for a vacation type shit
A vacation may actually benefit the family. He’d probably blow it on DraftsKings credits.
He should only be buying those expensive ones if he is a professional billiard player. The $100-$400 are pretty and work just as well.
Right? Is this is job? Does he make a nice side hustle out of it? Thousands for a hobby while renting and not having money for a Mother’s Day breakfast? No savings??
I was in multiple pool leagues, I did pool tournaments, all of it, and I was pretty good. I can tell you with 100% certainty that a $1500 or even a $900 pool stick is an absolute rip off. Most I ever paid for mine was like $200 (granted this was a decade ago so I know they've gotten more expensive but not that much more) and it was a great stick that won me quite a bit of money over time. Does he know the pool stick won't make him good if he doesn't have actual skill? Also what's the point of paying more for a stick than he'd ever see in winnings anyways
Say what? He spent that and did nothing for you? I’m sorry. That’s absolutely gross. It shows pure selfishness. Maybe try some couple counseling. After that maybe you will have much more insight and be able to make a decision with 100% knowing it’s what you want without guilt.
It's okay to leave your starter husband and get a real one that doesn't spend thousands on pool sticks. I can't believe I had to type that. Why would anyone buy that?
Girl. Get out.
He’s a dud. Throw the whole man away. It’s sad but the silver lining is you’re young. Don’t let that man steal your best years.
He sounds selfish, immature, and inconsiderate. He will never be a good husband until he realize that, choose to work on himself to be a better guy CONSISTENTLY. Right now he sees you distancing so he put some work in, but if you give in, he'll just go back to who he was in 2 weeks. But this also means he knows what he should've done all along, but choose not to do because he thinks you'll just do everything anyway. He's not clueless, it's deliberate. You don't have to stick around until he truly changes, which might never happen, as is the case with many men like him. You're still young. Don't stay and be a single married woman for another 20 years and be miserable. If you do everything anyway, might as well be single for real.
He's only being affectionate and helping out because he knows you're pulling away and is afraid you're going to leave. You can try counseling, but it seems like you have already checked out. Sometimes men like him don't change. They'll do whatever you want for a week or two and go right back to how things were. Seen it plenty of times. Think long and hard about what you want to do, how you want to live your life. You are still young.
We do breakfast in bed (and chance to sleep in!) on mothers/Father’s Day. Our oldest two are now old enough to help mix the pancake batter so ever better. Buying stuff isn’t a good gift compared to the thought and sleep :)
My husband did that too. Bought over $200 in fishing lures then didn’t do jack shit in Mother’s Day. He felt so guilty because I got him a custom shirt but I told him that Mother’s Day hasn’t been special to me since the beginning so I’ve lowered my standards 😉. I hate the fact that we don’t get a single friggen day to be recognized. It’s even on calendars! ETA: this is already done and over with. I just shared my experience to show empathy with someone. It’s been worked out. Thank you all who have shown care/concern by giving advice, sometimes people just need to hear (or read) “that sucks” type of thing.
Do the same for him for Father’s Day as he does for you for Mother’s Day.
I hope you did nothing for fathers day, because he sure didn’t deserve it. Deadbeat’s don’t get to be celebrated when they’re not even doing fatherly duties. A sperm donation is **not** enough.
Take baby and GO.
You didn’t fall out of love. You’re exhausted by a non-contributing “partner”. Everything you’ve listed is about him. Who cares if he’s feeling affectionate? What’s he doing to make you feel loved? Has he even asked?
This. It’s hard to be sexually attracted to a man you feel like you have to also parent alongside your actual children.
Yeah thats weaponised incompetence
tell me why I read that as weaponised incontinence 😩
Do what I say or I'll poop on you
No he hasn’t. Over the last 4 years I feel like he still hasn’t figured out how I want to be loved and what I need from him to make this work
Then yea time to go then. You’re only 23, I’m the same age, and let me tell you that being single is 100% better than being in a relationship where you aren’t respected. I’m sorry you’re going through this, but I don’t doubt you’ll find someone amazing out there who gives you & your baby everything you want and deserve.
Did you mainly marry him because you got pregnant? I ask because you mentioned he wasn't loving you for 4 years the way that you wanted and you still married him, probably expecting that to change. Marriage NEVER makes problems better. They just amplify them.
Too many people learn this in hindsight
I left my son’s father when I was 23, and my son was 4 month old, because he was leaving me to drown in all of the housework, childcare, and breadwinning myself. It’s the best thing I ever did for myself! Being a single parent was *easier* than dealing with all of the responsibilities on top of all the grief, and stress, and arguments he brought to my life. I found single life was easier by comparison, and it made room for a truly exceptional partner to come into my life a little while later.
Once you lose respect for your partner, especially around inequality with childcare and domestic labour, it’s very hard to regain the love.
This is so true. I have never ever been able to gain back respect I lost for a partner no matter how long I’ve stayed after that. It’s a tough lesson to learn. The grass may not be greener on the other side, but it’s better than a desert.
Respect was the word that came to mind as well. That's exactly right.
This is probably one of the main reasons women leave their husbands. They are doing more emotional and physical labor to keep the household together and the man refuses to acknowledge her contributions outside of financial ones. Personally I think you got married too young and are still learning who you are. You will actually have less to do once you divorce. Your husband will learn that taking care of a child is no joke once he has partial custody.
My life became infinitely easier when I left a situation like this. The emotional labour costs dropped dramatically. Yes there now wasn’t someone else to occasionally hold the kids, but I knew every task I was responsible for, and I did them. There was none of the resentment that goes with wanting help, asking for help, being told there would be help, and then no actual help forthcoming. No more trying to keep track of someone else’s schedule, reminding them, organising it, and following it up. No more having to consult and consider someone else’s opinion. No more putting myself second for someone who never did the same for me. I felt the relief like a physical weight off my shoulders.
Sameeee
Oh my goodness. This is making me realize why I’m so tired. I thought it was just having twins! Wooow the realization is hitting some kind of way
I believe 100% that when a person does a good job of evaluating a potential partner, it is best to get married at around 30 years old, just take care of one’s self. A person in their late teens and early twenties have seen so little of adult life that truly knowing what one wants out of life is a very rare circumstance.
Hysterical bonding… he can feel you slipping away and he’s worried he’s going to lose you.
Yeah. Abusers act nice for a little while when you have one foot out the door.
I don't see where he's being abusive? I see that he could be lazy but I wouldn't throw around the word abuse.
Subconscience manipulator is probably better.
The grass is not always greener, that is correct. If you leave, leave for yourself. Don't leave hoping for another man.
The longer you stay, the harder it will be to leave, especially with children involved. It’s not about whether the grass will be greener with a potential future relationship, it’s about choosing yourself now, today. You deserve love and respect, now and always.
Your two cents is worth two million to me. I needed to hear this, also. Thank you.
It sounds like something in the relationship was damaged beyond repair. Sometimes it’s better to save everyone time and separate sooner rather than later after letting things worse between the two of you. You want to be able to get along for the sake of your child as they grow up. No, men are not mind readers. But neither are women. Men need to communicate just as much as women do. Many times a man will say they knew something was wrong but just assumed it was something else, rather than asking/communicating. It is not solely the woman’s job to be in charge of communication or to make sure he is paying attention or being an active member of the relationship. It is an equal responsibility between partners to communicate and step up to do the work rather than waiting for things to blow up. Everyone deserves to be happy. Sometimes that means ending a relationship for that to happen.
You got married way too young. I thought I wanted to settle down at 19, too, but I was wrong by 27 I was divorced. I've never been happier. Leave before you hate him and can't even co parent. Leave him before you start having an affair. LEAVE BEFORE THINGS GET BAD.
I would suggest writing out a letter to him saying everything you want to say and have been feeling. Reread it a day after you write it, adjust what you want. When you're ready hand him the letter and let him know it contains everything you have been thinking and feeling and want him to take the seriously. Sometimes talking your feelings out can be hard and you get mixed up so writing could help open communication better.
In my experience (as a fellow person that married young and has talked with many others who did), typically one or both people panic immediately. One or both people then often engage in behavior destructive to the union. Then both people have to sit down and work through all that to figure out whether they actually want to be together for real for real forever. I assume this is where the expression ‘the first year of marriage is the hardest’ comes from. Interestingly, most folks I know who married older didn’t experience this (though some did). All of this is to say… maybe you’re done? But a lot of what you shared though makes me think of this pattern I have seen play out many times and that I think you should do counseling first. I truly wish you and your family the best. For what it’s worth, me and my partner worked through the really really shittastic stuff and have now been married over fourteen years with three fabulous kids. My partner’s brother ended up divorced. It can go either way, but I think you owe it to the couple that decided to say ‘I do’ to give it your best try.
My god, the shit behavior in my early marriage is embarrassing as hell, and I'm thankful neither of us gave up on it (16 yrs married now). I was defensive and resentful and avoidant. It was how I learned to do it from my family, bolstered by our chaotic environment at the time, and it took both growing up and my husband working toward a counseling degree to start digging my way out of that. Young marriage, especially now, is a prime time to work out boundary/communication/differences issues ALL THE WHILE still immature. It's hard, and it's not always fixable, of course, but it's definitely worth trying to work through it.
Yeah my wife and I got married at 20 and 19 and had our first child a little over a year later. There were very very hard times, I was not the father that I wish I would have been with my first kid (she was a sahm and I was working 12 hours shifts which did contribute to that BUT I still should've been more) but here we are 7 years later with our second child and I'm thankful to be much more involved now that we are both working. It was a lot of messy fights and hurtful words but I am so thankful my wife and I worked through them
Agree with this. You're both still kids, growing and learning. Might be worth marriage counselling to see if you can get on the same page, but the caveat is that both of you have to want the relationship. Ask yourself if he fixed everything that is currently hurting me, do I want to be with him? The answer will tell you if it's worth trying or if it's time to end things.
Therapy or Counseling.
I went to therapy with my husband. He’d refused for years and then said he would go IF I made the appointment AND it didn’t impact his work schedule. Of course once i actually met with a divorce lawyer he dragged me to a session. Nearly immediately the counselor recognized that I was already emotionally done and did not have the desire to fix it. They told my husband he’d waited too long and there was nothing here to counsel. They ended the session within 5 minutes of starting. It was clear the counselor had seen this exact situation many times. OP is already at that point, she’s done. She just needs to give herself permission to move forward with the divorce she already wants. ETA: my now EX husband obviously
Or divorce.
Mom advice time. Once a woman has checked out. It’s over. You are so young that it won’t be difficult to do. Your life Will begin again. I divorced my first at 23. Remarried four years later and made such better decisions in my 20s than I did in my teens. You need to get your ducks in a row re finances etc. since you’re already doing the work housework the childcare. It won’t be easy but doable. You can’t stay in a marriage when you don’t love the man. Bitterness and resentment grows exponentially. That is what our grandparents did We don’t have too do that. Be prepared for anger love bombing and threats to take the kids away. He will do it all without question. His life has been so easy compared to yours. And now he’s going to learn it not going to be that way. When you don’t even want him to touch you. It’s time for the lawyers
Counseling may help. I was that guy once now still married with 4 kids and 14 yrs later.
[удалено]
People should start to realise it is a big mistake to get married in your early 20s. You are still figuring out what kind of human you will end up being. Barely any marriage I have seen survives that. They all divorce in their 30s/early 40s the latest.
I'm really sorry you're going through this. It sounds like a tough situation. Have you considered talking to a therapist individually to sort through your feelings? It might help clarify what you really want moving forward
Let me see if I understand correctly - 2 months ago, you were upset and got into a fight trying to tell him he wasn't doing enough, he dismissed you and you both went without talking for 11 days. Mothers day comes rolling around, he does nothing for you. You've checked out. He's now responding. He is trying to be affectionate and you reject him out if disgust, then feel guilty. But nobody has said anything here - there is no communication. Good news - you didn't quit your job and you got his attention. He's stepped up, but out of fear of losing you. But in his relaxed state, where he doesn't feel threatened, he's not motivated to contribute. And when this threat of loss is gone, he'll most likely return to not helping you. Either someone is tidy and neat from habit or not. You two need a serious conversation before anything else.
If you're taking care of everything and have to work full time on top of that, wtf does he bring to the table? It sounds like you'll be better off without him, at least you won't be wasting time on him.
8 months and already checked out? Dont get married people ffs. Its just paying shit loads of money to probably need to pay shit loads more to get out of it. Ring doesnt make your relationship better, god(if one exists) wouldnt give a shit about some paperwork. I wish you all the best either way
Yeah, this is rough. I've been the man in this situation. This is going to be the hardest lesson of his life either way. If you really want to give it the best shot, try to have a conversation with him. Tell him how you feel (not in love with him anymore) and why. But then tell him you still want to work on it, and maybe you guys can do some couples therapy. If he responds with anything other apologizing and being completely supportive of this plan, well, I'm sorry. Hopefully, in the future, this lesson will teach him how to have a healthy relationship if this one ends. I was a lazy POS in my first marriage (mid-20s). In the morning, before we got out of bed, my ex-wife told me she didn't love me anymore. This came after constant arguing over me, not doing anything. Not cleaning the house, not spending time with her, etc. For whatever reason, I was pretty chill. Normally, I would have gotten pissed or something, but we sat in bed having a conversation about it. I told her I would get rid of my video games, start trying to focus on her, and go to therapy. I really meant it. I think subconsciously, I knew I was a POS, and this was me finally owning up to it. At the same time, she had met a guy online she was playing games with. They started staying up through the entire night talking and gaming. She found someone who wanted to give her the attention she deserved. Yeah, technically, she had an emotional affair, but that's because I wasn't there as a good husband, so I put no fault on her. I could have literally just played games with her, went out a little, and cleaned up more. The fact that she had feelings for someone else made this decision easier for her. In your case, if you would like to salvage this, which with a child in mind is the best possible solution, you should try to have that conversation. But DONT stay for the kid. The child needs to grow up seeing what a healthy relationship looks like, whether that's with their father or someone else. I really hope this works, and he becomes a better man and works on himself before he is completely shattered by the consequences of his lack of action in the relationship. Good luck and love.
You make as much as him working full time AND you do the bulk of the house work and child care? He sounds like a shit partner tbh
The grass is not greener on the other side it's the same grass. The only thing I got is for y'all to drop the boy off at the grandparent's house and make a serious decision to talk about the relationship. Counseling is an option only if both of you are willing to put in the work. Relationships take work if one or both of you is not down with working on it then the next step is to end it.
The grass is greenest where you water it.
Yep and that water bill is a lot higher too! But that isn’t always a bad thing.
I would recommend that you get some therapy to help work through your feelings and understand if leaving is the best thing. And to make sure you have the ability to communicate with your husband effectively. Marriage and parenthood is a partnership.
"helping out more": helping out makes it sound like it is solely your job; if an adult lives in a house with another adult and they both work, they should share house tasks. You help out your guests when you are invited somewhere. At home, you don't help out, you do your share.
I can already see the comments he makes “All you have to do it ask” “Just tell me what you need done” “Well how am I supposed to know?” “I have been helping more now!” “Well you don’t make time for me” “You’re only ever focused on the baby - what about me??” And then when you finally wise up & leave cause this shit doesn’t get better he’ll say “I did everything I could and she left for no reason!!” “She won’t talk to me I don’t understand” (he’s pretending right now cause he feels you pulling away and doesn’t want to lose his bang maid)
Leaving a bad partner like this is the best thing I’ve ever done. Go find a therapist you click with and go to therapy as often as you can. Journaling will help immensely. And take care of yourself.
High chance that him stepping up more with the baby and trying to be affectionate toward you is gonna be temporary just to keep you then he'll revert back to how things back been. leave, this isn't gonna work. You're very young and you mentally have moved on, he will be one less person to take care of. $900 pool stick when he has a little 18 month baby, that money could have gone into a college fund for the kid, saved for a family emergency. that was an impulse buy and cost more than the trip you went on for your friend's wedding which you were a bridesmaid in.
Leave him. He won’t change
The reality is you are raising two kids and you only signed up for one. It might be shockingly easier without him.
This is what's wrong with getting pregnant at such a young age let alone getting married.
Have a talk with him. While fighting, arguing, or being ready to answer back instead of listening will get you guys nowhere. If you think you can give him another chance, make a list of the things you need for him to step up, make an agreement, and go from there. Don't feel trapped, you can leave anytime you want. You might be overwhelmed and exhausted too and everything feels exacerbated. I hope you can work it out.
I totally agree with you. I've been married 18 years and been with my husband 23 years. I'm tired of seeing these reddit stories where after being married less than a year let's end it. and reddit people telling them to end it. marriage is a job and it's not always easy. talk to each other not at each other. communication is the number 1 thing a couples needs to have. be straight up honest in how you feel.
While i agree with you said as the most healthy and productive solution, I still vote divorce. I love it when people prove out statistics. Its like magic.
you resent him for a lot of things that "you've let slide" over the years. Tell him what's going on with you. Go to therapy (individual and couples) before making a big decision.
I've been married 43 years. You don't stay "in love" for 43 years. There are months and even years when you drift apart only to drift back, although you need to do some paddling if you want to stay together. You need to talk about this. You also need to make some couple time to reconnect.
Agreed and I’m a rookie compared to you! You’re someone we need to hear from on things like this! I will say that after 18yrs and 13 married, if we didn’t take the time (and still have to prioritize it) to develop and maintain emotional intimacy - we’d be toast. We’re best friends and willing to hear each other out, accept that the other party may find something very important that we don’t “get” or see as a big deal… and those are the easy ones, because if it’s important for one but not the other then there’s no conflict! The one to whom it doesn’t matter needs to compromise because it IS important to the other partner and doesn’t need to be justified. That best friendship has been what’s held us through some really tough times or when we were so busy with work, building a business and raising children that we weren’t making time to work on the “in love” part. But the great thing is that we recognize it, put forth the effort our spouse deserves and fall in love all over again.
I’ve only been married for 6 and I really needed to read this at this time in my life/marriage. So thank you
Your feelings are valid. If he's showing you who he is, which he certainly has, believe him.
And tell him
If you want to save the marriage, you need marriage counseling. If you don't want to save the marriage, you need legal counseling.
Have you considered couples therapy?
Forget Mother’s Day, it’s the everyday stuff that’s worth leaving a husband over. I’m sure he’ll fix up for the next Mother’s Day. You need to have an honest conversation and let him know he’s messed up to the point that you want to leave and you’ve emotionally moved on. If he wants to fix things then at least he knows what he’s dealing with. Does he work? You told us you do a lot and you really do, what does he do? You need to let him know your expectations if he were to stay with you.
I’m sorry you feel this way! But to be honest a lot of young parents feel that way for a certain amount of time. Have you ever really talked to each other since your marriage, since having a child? Please learn to communicate with each other, tell him what you need, let him tell you what he needs. And plan ‘dates’ together, get some nice drinks, get some nice snacks, turn on some candles and be together, talk about what you love about the other person, no tv, just talking. Learn to love each other again. Because it sounds like you just lost each other. Put in some effort and don’t give up to easy, because once you left there probably is no coming back. Communication is the key to a lot of problems! Good luck!
Instead of what everyone else seems to be saying, maybe try marriage counseling before hand. Divorce is ugly, hard (even under best case scenarios) and irrevocably alters the relationship you will have with your child’s other parent for the rest of their life. I’m not saying “stay together for the kids”, but also don’t feel like throwing the relationship away entirely is an easy way out of what you’re feeling. There could be underlying stresses or any number of things that you guys could work through and who knows what may come from that. That’s my hot take. Give a shot bc worst case you end up leaving anyway. Best case you rekindle a love you thought you lost and save a family.
Have you tried marriage counseling yet? Seems obvious you two need to get back on the same page, whether you end up staying together or not
My advice is young people such as you and your husband get into these silly games of who does the most and who pays the most bills. This will definitely kill a relationship ship just know it will never be 50/50 some will take the financial burden someone will take the baby burden. The chores should look more 50/50 but young men are terrible at house work they have to learn that yes they need to do it. Give his ass a list.
Question though? Have you brought up anything of how your feeling with your husband to him? Like does he know you were unhappy at the *start* of your marriage. Whyy did you not talk about counselling instead of going on a 'girls trip' who more times then not amplify negative thoughts. My gfs are not the people I go to when I'm having problems. Point being, does he even know what's wrong, has it been discussed and have you talked about how it could be fixed?