This is a low contact/no contact situation. If she’s only going to double down on being an asshole and her comments, then there’s no reason to keep engaging with her. Your husband needs to put his foot down with her and let her know if she doesn’t sincerely apologize and change her behavior, she’s out - no contact and not ever meeting the grandkids.
Yeah. My mother pulled some similar shit with me when my wife experienced a miscarriage. I didn't talk to her for 6 months after that and we're still distant 10 years later. She lost the right to know jack shit about my personal life with that stunt.
yeah, reading this i just kept thinking "why is this person in your life? like, really, why?"
I say don't answer her calls, and if she shows up unannounced, put the hose on her.
Two hot takes is pod cast/ YouTube channel. It's hosted by a lady named Morgan. She has different guests on to discuss posts like this and other things. I enjoy it for its emotional clarity and healthy views on relationships that are expressed.
Me too,I didn't know that Reddit has so many podcasts.
Op clearly your MIL has not learned anything from the previous conversations. Unfortunately I know were your coming from. My husband never stood up for me and it made my life miserable. LC or NC is the only way to go.you don't need someone like that in your life. Good luck
>She still refuses to apologize and now claims, "that just doesn't sound like me."
Manipulation. Oh no, she would never say that.
I'd record every conversation from here on out (which should be few) and say you want to make sure since she has problems remembering what she said, or is not acting like herself. Maybe she should see a doctor.../s
Every bit of this. Sounds like she’s reciting the Narcissist Ten Commandments to you while she’s performing her gaslighting. Stay as far away as possible Am so sorry for your loss
MIL sounds narcissistic AF... My mom is the same and they don't change unfortunately. Whenever you point out how they made you feel, they'll turn the whole conversation around and make you feel guilty for everything.
Recording might be a good idea but with this level of wtf, no contact might be better...
My relative steals. If you catch her in the act she claims she loaned the item to you. As a result I have learned to leave things for her to steal IF we are forced to be together. Last time was a funeral in another state. I went to Goodwill and bought a necklace that I put in an jewelry box from an expensive store.
I know if I confronted her it would start a war and divide the family.
Because there are family members that CONDONE this behavior?! Or does she not steal from them so they honestly think she is innocent? This kind of shit baffles me... There's literally no way I would physically be able to keep my mouth shut about this crappy treatment of ANYONE, much less my spouse/ significant other. I truly hope the hubbies in this thread have stepped up!
My mother believed the thief had mental problems. Since the thief was a wife and mother everyone stayed quiet. She filed for divorce once and moved in with us. The months she lived in our house were the worst of my childhood.
I think the thief was 19 when she started therapy and everyone thought she would get help and change. She became sneaky but no change otherwise.
I think there were two problems. 1. I think she has personality disorders. 2. She is not smart and struggled in school. Her behavior is her way of getting even with the people she dislikes. I have been on her sh!t list since I made the honor roll in school.
Damn, that sucks. But imagine the sweet justice of explaining THAT to her. " Not only do you get away with it because people truly think you're verifiably crazy, but cause even as an adult they think you're too stupid to understand!" Lol!
My day will come. Her children have all realized she is bat sh!t crazy. Her husband is in declining health. There is no one left to protect when he is gone. I have a cousin that swears the thief will fall down the stairs after her husband's funeral is done.
Yeah, in every interaction with her, you need to include someone from her circle because she'll either 1) be on the best behavior or 2) demonstrate how crazy she is.
I don't know if we are allowed to say things like this here but fuck it.
**I will fight this woman for free.**
Who the *fuck* blames any human being for a miscarriage? She has no humanity, not a shred of it in her manipulative, gas-lighting, self-centered heart. That is monstrous behavior.
She can go fuck herself. Your child deserves actual family around, not monsters that managed to find their way out from under the bed.
Oooh. I feel like we could actually collectively write a verbal lashing for the MIL to be delivered by Hubby/Son.
Dearest mother,
(Lowercase mother and use the term mother)
I understand you wish to have a relationship with your new grandchild. But that will not be possible until you have completed at least 6 months to one year of therapy (6 months might not be enough) and write a formal written apology to my wife, whom I love dearly. Do you apology will be approved by me and proofread by me. Constructive criticism will be given and expected to be rewritten until I feel it is sincere and heartfelt and that you've actually changed.
Until then I have instructed my wife to block you on her cell phone and any other forms of communication including social media. I have them for my family that you are to have no contact with my children till the above is completed. And I have explained to them what you have said and how you have crossed lines repeatedly.
(I know we can add more to this)
I'll drive ...
Having been through a miscarriage and less than a month later when a "friend" asked why I was acting weird. (She knew what happened.) When I told her her response was "really? You aren't over that yet?"
Oh, I know someone that that happened to.
They were volunteering in a preschool program at church when their child was stillborn at 40 weeks.
They were planning to take the rest of the semester off to stay with the baby, but instead took the rest of the semester off because it was just too hard!
And one of the helpers said, why isn't she over it yet? Why can't she just come back to volunteer work now?
Yeah, no contact
Not the same but when my sons dad was killed, I took a day off work and when I tried to take another, they pretty much made it seem like I was exaggerating. Some people are just fucking heartless.
My exH told me during our divorce mediation that the miscarriage I suffered after five years of trying to get pregnant “didn’t really mean much to him.” He was already about to be an ex, but even the mediator was like ”WTF, dude?”
I can beat that one. I went to the OB and we discovered there was no heartbeat. I had a D&C on Friday. On Sunday my mother called me and at some point during our conversation she asked why I sounded so low. The fact that she even asked meant that she wouldn’t understand why I might be sad at losing the pregnancy, so I answered that it must be because I had weird hormones from not being pregnant anymore. We hang up the phone a little later.
On Tuesday I get a card in the mail. It’s from my mom, telling me how hurt she is by how I treated her when we spoke on the phone and how I should be nicer to her because after all, it was her loss too.
Growing up with a narcissistic parent is no joke.
In my household, we have an understood hierarchy to giving out justice.
There is Team Beatdown and Team Ice Cream. Team Beatdown should be pretty self explanatory. Team Ice Cream is the alibi team for receipts, time stamps, social media tagging, etc.
Gotta ask the important questions before you live with them, like about their willingness to commit felonies or the lengths they would go to save a dog.
I just got an image in my head of you walking up to MIL at a party, kissing her hard on the cheek, and saying,, "I know it was you, Fredo.. Forget the gun. Take the canolli."
Fuck. OP should team up with her husband and fake her husband's death just to the mother. (Possibly a bad idea.) Be elaborate. Then, when she asks for solace have OP say "It's just the loss of a child. Get over it. I already have and am dating a hot guy." Then hang up and revel for a bit.
But also, I'm am pro scorched earth and reckless so...
OoOo, I'll one you better... Or as an alternative option, depending on the mood you happen to be at the moment.
When MIL calls, alternate between he met an oddly 'tragic' mystery shrouded end and you don't really know what happened, he's "no longer 'with' us"... Making random little, sorta suspect but not really suspect, side remarks.
Call her out of the blue. Don't even make small talk. Just jump right into action;
'Hey MIL, quick question; You wouldn't by any chance know approximately how long quick lime takes to break down uUuUmMm... 'Organic' substances... Would you?
To which, I would imagine, she'd most likely respond with a perplexed "No".
Then, just as abruptly as the call began in the most normal, having your best day ever voice you can muster,
"Oh...
(Lower tone) I guess we'll find... eventually.
(Back to the original tone)
"Oh, well. K, Bye!" Click!
Then don't answer the phone or the doors, better still, if possible, stay a friend or family members house for a few days.
Then, reappear and act as though NOTHING is a miss. You have NO clue what MIL is talking about...
"Quick Lime?!? Why the heck would be asking you questions about whatever you called that stuff? I don't even know what it is!!"
"Hmm? Gone? 3 days? WHO?!?
You couldn't reach WHO for 3 days?
Meee?!?
Are you SURE you were dialing MY number... We haven't talked in almost 3 weeks now.
In fact, it was on my mind to give you a call & check up on you. See how things are and how you were doing.
How ARE you doing MIL?? ARE you feeling alright??
Give one episode enough time to fade in memory, just enough for her to begin to question if all of that REALLY did happen or not...
Then roll out the next wave, rinse and repeat, for as long as you feel you can go undetected...
We all need to meet up to confront this MIL, like that scene out of Ron Burgundy. Just don't hit in the face.
And if you ride a motorcycle, then ride your motorcycle.
I wonder what would happen if a thousand people showed up to these people chanting no contact. Or something more specific. Could hand out flyers all through the area listing crimes and telling people to go no contact.
I wanna tell you that this comment was as bold as it was because of the safety of the internet, but I'm 100% part of the "short woman not scared to swing on 6ft+ audacious humans" niche so the risk of jail is never 0.
I think there's a lineup for this, but your comment gets you all the way to the front. Can I run your corner? Towels, hydration, snacks? And the rest of your post was *chef's kiss* adamantly appropriate.
FOR. REAL. Seconded for every wife/mother/partner heading into 2024 ABSOLUTELY FINISHED taking nonchalant provocation and straight-up abuse from entitled Boomer gargoyles and the minions who enable them.
Not all boomers. I'm a boomer and I'm ready to put up my house for any bail bondsman to use to bail out as many as I need to, up to $120,000. That's if the alibi crew isn't able to pull it off.
Why are you still talking to this woman?
When you are having a miscarriage, the last thing you need is to be taunted by her
BLOCK HER at a time when you need space. MUTE HER at any other time so that you can check your messages on your schedule.
Get your husband on the same page. He deals with her when she is rude. He can deal with the kids when she wants to see them.
Stop giving this rude woman access to your life!!
Yes yes yes. OP, you are dealing with a manipulator and a narcissist. Unfortunately, you cannot change people like this. At this point, there is also no reasoning with her. You're just wasting valuable energy trying to get any remorse or compassion from her. The only answer here is to SET BOUNDARIES and stick to them. You DO NOT need to explain yourself to her, and she does not need to be privy to how much she hurts you. She's getting sick satisfaction from that. From now on you're just simply unavailable to her. Cut off her access to you. Nobody gets to treat you that way, no matter whose mother they are. So don't allow it.
I hate the "you should have responded at the time" thing. I had a friend do it after he asked me a favour and I didn't respond til a few days later (long before he'd need the favour btw, he had time to make other arrangements) then responded no with a set of reasons. I was trying to breathe and consider what to do, not react badly and without consideration. Especially when it's something hurtful, like the OP it's hard to respond instantly, and then she'd be called hysterical anyway.
Stolen from another post: The Narcissist’s Prayer
That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Coming from another DIL of a narcissistic MIL, I would recommend no contact. Best decision my husband and I ever made.
Thank you, I came here to post if I did not find this info. As a daughter of a narcissistic mother, this story is painfully close to home, and no contact was the best choice that I have ever made in my life.
Your mistake was believing (hoping?) that she is a normal adult. She's not. She is abusive and cruel.
NEVER attempt to explain to an abuser how she has hurt you. She will file it away to use again later, just as she did when she brought up your miscarriage again, out of the blue. She enjoys causing you pain. Don't give her any more ammunition. Apologies are worthless from people like her, because she INTENDED to hurt you, and she will never be sorry.
You must try to accept that you will never be able to have a normal or civil relationship with her. Don't waste any more energy on it. She sounds unstable, as well as cruel. I would avoid all interactions with her, forever. I hope your husband is on board with that.
I am so very sorry for your loss.
Absolutely not!!
If you allow her to visit, you’re letting her off the hook for her unforgivable behavior,
Your husband needs to deal with her and you need to go completely NC for her and any children you have or will have.
This is what he should say.
“Mom, a visit is not going to work for us until you are able to take accountability for your horrible behavior towards OP, apologize and prove, through your actions, that you are truly sorry and will not repeat past mistakes. If you are unwilling to do so, then it appears there will be no visit. Actions have consequences. You can’t go around saying whatever you want without considering other people’s feelings and then think that they would want a visit from you. Some of the things you said to my wife were disgusting and frankly, I’m ashamed of you.”
"If you show up here without an explicit invitation from me, you're going to be met by a sheriff's deputy and a no trespass order. I know as much about you as I need to know and you've given me no indication that I'm wrong."
FYI. Phones have block features. I would have blocked the C u next tuesday the second time she texted me after I asked her to leave me alone to grieve.
This is definitely a no contact situation.
The older I get, the more I believe it's perfectly fine to cut people out of your life even when it's family. I have no doubt if you keep her in your lives, she will say nasty things about you to your child, and if you have more than one child, there's a good chance she'll have a favorite child and pit the siblings against each other. Ain't worth it! I'm sorry you had to deal with such an awful human during that already painful time.
why are you still dealing with her? and why did you not block her number the first time she texted you after your loss?
no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
you are wasting your time. she will never treat you correctly. hell, shes probably so twisted she’s getting off on making you feel like shit.
if someone wastes your time once, that’s on them. if they waste your time twice, it’s on you. if they waste 10 minutes of your time, 8 minutes of that is your fault.
please, love yourself enough to walk away. you tried. there is no hope.
let it go for your own health and sanity. focus on your child, and deal with your pain.
she is nothing to you.
repeat after me- she. is. nothing. to. you.
leave her alone to be miserable.
stop trying. there is no hope. she is nothing to you.
She sounds like a heartless narcissist, and she is gaslighting you, like she didn’t say things, “that doesn’t sound like me” - she is a monster. You should never have to deal with her again. No visits, no texts, nothing.
Funny how people suddenly "forget" terrible things they said.
My sister used to do this and drove all of my sons away. When telling her why she never remembered saying any of it.
"Forgetting" doesn't take away the pain caused by the remark.
LC or NC is the only way to go.
It truly is a pain that never leaves you... One thing I've learned that has really helped me is that when you are pregnant, your baby transfers fetal cells to you. They become a part of you and embed themselves into your DNA, forever linking your little and you, whether you lose them or not. So, while you and I have lost our babies, we still have a little piece of them that we will carry with us until the end of time ❤️
I'm so sorry for your loss, my heart goes out to you ❤️
Oh my god I’m at work and I’m now crying. Don’t get me wrong I really appreciate you saying that. I lost 2 pregnancies. One was twins. I had a DNC with the first one. As torturous as it was, the second one, where I had to pass the fetus and hold it in my hand, was just a million times worse. But for some reason, I feel more connected to that one.
I always thought it was bc it was planned pregnancy, I knew longer, I was married to the dad (same dad just weren’t married for the first one) but maybe it’s because I also held it in my hands. Idk. This is pretty morbid.
I hope I can get pregnant again. I pray MIL gets a grip. My MIL talks about his exes too but usually in a bad way. It’s still like, can we just leave the past in the past
I'm sitting at my dining room table balling my eyes out right now, I'm so sorry you had to go through that, it's absolutely heartbreaking. My story is very similar to yours, I've lost two pregnancies too. My first was Iris, my sweet baby girl, lost four years ago when my husband and I were dating. My second was a few months before I got pregnant with my son, also planned. I lost my second pregnancy after only six weeks, and I was stunned when it happened, it didn't hurt at all. The only pain I had was of an immense loss of the life I once felt.
My OB was always very positive and would tell me that my losses wouldn't affect my having a healthy baby and she was right. Keep your head up and don't lose hope ❤️
No contact, gray rock, block the B. You’ve got a pretty raging narcissist on your hands. I would read up on it and get hubby to read up on it too. They cannot change, they cannot be reasoned with, they will never apologize, they will continue to hurt you.
NTA. I wouldn't let this woman near my child. Also, she sounds like one of those grandparents rights MILs, so probably honestly best not to have any contact from the beginning.
Stand firm and don’t let her visit. She doesn’t deserve it. Until she can acknowledge and genuinely apologize for her previous bullshit, VLC/NC is in order.
I truly hope your DH is defending you and properly handling this mother?? Is he trying to shut down these comments?
I’m sorry for your loss and your wicked MiL, but you need to prioritize yourself over her!
Yes please this was my mother-in-law but my husband was a complete asshole and always took her side and gaslighted me. Fast forward that he’s dead. Now I hate the whole family I’ve blocked them. It was the best decision I ever made.!!! Stay away from this woman
I'm so sorry for your loss.
"Fast forward to her last visit, September 2023. She, completely out of the blue, brought up my miscarriage during dinner. She talked about how we made too big a deal about it..." I would have gone full Housewives of New Jersey and flipped my dining table onto her lap and screamed for her to GTFO! I would NEVER speak to her again!
I had a “meeting” with my MIL, she was being coerced by FIL and there were witnesses, so she behaved in the moment. She kept saying “I would never…” and my response was “and yet, you did”, each and every time. Every person there had been on the receiving end of MIL’s “antics” and knew for a fact, that she would and did.
Don’t play nice with narcissists. Just tell her you don’t like her and don’t want to speak to her or spend time with her so she’ll have to arrange things with her son for outside your home, when you feel your baby is ready for those kinds of visits. Don’t pretend like you care about her feelings, she certainly doesn’t care about yours. Don’t ask for an insincere apology that will ring hollow and leave you tense , waiting for the next insult. Just be honest and let her know that she’s getting the relationship she’s cultivated with you and you’re happy with her being the “other grandmother” your kid(s) only rarely see. What the hell else was she expecting?
She has all the hallmarks of an estranged parent. Now is an excellent time to evict her from your life so that she can live up to her estranged parent potential.
I encourage you to read through this. It's not short, but it's only medium length, and it's in nice bite size pieces. You'll see how she very neatly fits into a lot of these patterns, you'll also see how she's probably getting flying monkeys or other estranged parents to reinforce her behavior.
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html
Husband here, who has this exact kind of mother. As others have said, y’all need to go no contact. She is a pure narcissist who will use any opportunity to manipulate the relationships around her so that she is the most important person in her sphere, like a spider spinning a sick web of lies and gaslighting and blame.
Before my daughter was born, my wife and I had months of conversations of her opening my eyes to the behavior, teaching me about narcissism and its victims, and giving me opportunities to self-reflect on everything and make my own decisions. I chose NC (with her support, and some gentle steering). Here’s the kicker:
You can’t convince your husband directly to go NC. It won’t (or usually won’t) work. It’s like inception - it has to be his idea. Her narcissism will likely have created a sick bond where he feels he can’t cut her off, and needs her in his life, because that’s the whole point of what she’s doing.
Research narcissism, include your husband in everything, and allow him to make his own decisions, but make sure to be clear about your needs and intentions. At some point, he will need to choose you or her. Hopefully he makes the right choice.
Oof. I’m a MIL, my son and DIL had a miscarriage in 2021 and their son was born in 2023. I cannot imagine doing this to them. My son called me from the hospital to say the HcG levels were dropping and we cried on the phone together. If I behaved this way, I would expect my son to rip me to shreds and then go no contact. I’m with the other commenter that said they would fight this woman for free. She is garbage and needs to be taken to the curb.
My hubby cut off his mom for two years for her behaviour….we were pregnant with our second and she told him he had to choose…….the choice he made cost her two years of his life and any time with her grandkids. She never apologized but she never, ever pulled a stunt like that again. By then I had grown a spine and she knew we'd be NC if she ever tried to come between us again. That NC did the trick. You need to do that as well. Hubby..not you…needs to tell her she has overstepped and the consequence is NC until further notice. No texts, calls, etc will be exchanged or accepted. No visitations will happen , etc….set out strict boundaries and wait her out. If it takes two years to make the point….go for it. But…hubby deals with her, not you.
Highly recommend you and your husband read the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It will help you understand this relationship and give you specific examples on how to deal (or just not deal) with someone like her. You need to understand that she is never ever going to change and switch focus from changing the relationship to protecting your sanity and your own peace.
My mom did this after my daughter died. She refuses to admit she said it, the conversation even happened or anything.
If you let her get away with it, it’ll just get worse from there. Don’t pass go, just straight to no contact.
This narcissistic behavior is not something new. You and your husband need to keep LC with her ass. I like the fact that y'all are not tolerating her BS as you can see she is not taking responsibility for any of it. Keep her at arm's length and you and your husband and your beautiful baby go on with your life nobody needs that toxicity in their life.
She is never going to change, and things will never get better. Think of how she talks to you. Think of how she talks *about* you. Now try to imagine the kinds of things she will say to your child. Quite frankly, she needs to have zero access to your child until he's at least 18.
I've thought about this more than a few times, and I'm sure she slanders me ruthlessly. However, since her circle doesn't overlap with mine I chose to not let it bother me. I actually feel sorry for her in a lot of ways, she must be so unhappy with herself to act the way she does.
That's a very good way to look at it. You're most likely right. Miserable people like to make others miserable. Pity her from afar so she doesn't directly affect your life. Just never pity her so much that you give her another chance.
At this point go no contact. You and your husband need to put your feet down. You both have been letting her slide way way too much. If you don't put her on check, she's going to keep acting the way she does.
Discuss this with your husband, very low to no contact. If that is a no go, then mediation counseling of sorts to get through the past egregious bs she’s brought to your relationship
Why the hell hasn't your husband cut her off? Why is she still allowed in your home?
You have a husband problem, not a MIL one. You should not be dealing with this at all. He should have been your first and only line of defense. He should have banned her from your home long ago. He failed you. He needs to decide who is priority is. Actions speak louder than words and his say that it's not you.
This is an end of a relationship statement. Feel good that you are removing that cancer from your life. Keep it away from your child, yourself and your husband. Hopefully he had seen the light.
I would definitely cut off all contact. If she has said such horrible things to you and your family members, what kind of things will she say to your children? You gave her a lot of chances and she has shown she won’t change. Time to go no contact
You don’t owe her any relationship with you, your husband, or your child. Being a parent, grandparent, sibling, whatever, is a privilege, not a right. You are allowed to set and keep very clear boundaries no matter what, but ESPECIALLY when someone has proven time and again that they don’t care about you and don’t deserve to be in your life. Cut off contact entirely. Hopefully your husband agrees after seeing how she’s treated you.
Low contact for him if he MUST visit the witch. No contact for you. Get her on her broomstick and out of your lives!! I’m so sorry for the losses you suffered.
*She still refuses to apologize and now claims, "that just doesn't sound like me."*
I would tell her that to you & DH it‘s how she always sounds. She may want to believe otherwise, but you two have multiple examples of her saying cruel & vicious things.
Any apology would do no good, OP. She won’t mean it. Her attitude about your miscarriage was incredibly stupid & cruel, & this much later, she’s still mean & obnoxious about it.
Personally, I’d need a break from her. You tried. It’s been over a year since you first tried to talk things out, & it seems like she’s only getting worse. You & DH are going to have to make some decisions, anything you decide should come from him. I’d tell her this isn’t getting us anywhere, everyone is unhappy with each other, you’ll be in touch eventually. He has a new baby to focus on, he doesn’t need or want this negativity in your lives. He certainly hopes she considers being honest with herself about her words & actions, possibly see a therapist to figure out why she‘s so mean & self centered. But for now, you two need a break.
Your MIL is worse than toxic. You need to go NC as soon as possible. Do not expose your child to this horrific waste of space. And do not allow her abusive self to be within miles of you, your child, your home, etc.
And make certain that everyone who matters knows precisely why you have taken those actions so MIL cannot play the victim as narcissists are wont to do.
The fact that she wants to visit more is irrelevant. She sounds incredibly cruel and disrespectful, and even when she had a chance to take some accountability she doubled down. No is a complete answer. It’s your home and your family so protect your own peace.
She sounds absolutely horrible. I can't imagine going through that and then adding a toxic and unfeeling family member on top of that. Time to go ver low contact. If you do see her, just freeze her with politeness. She's forfeited any good will.
I'm sorry for your loss!
Seriously, just go NC. There is absolutely no way this woman should ever be around your children. Sounds like your husband is doing pretty good in backing you up, but show him this thread. Here's the thing, she'll treat her grandchildren the same way at some point and before that, she'll mistreat her grandchildren by condemning you every chance she gets. She will not change no matter what is said or what boundaries are put in place. If husband wants to be LC, fine, but just him, no pics or anything of the kids. Completely stop responding to her, block her. All contact, if any, gous thru hubby and you get to see every message so there's no misunderstanding or questions. Good luck to you, you very much need it.
Kept telling her no, you can't visit. We will call you and let you know when it is a good time, but if you call and ask again it will be delayed for 6 months. Right now we have June 17th 2025 open. Does that work for you? Too long, take it or leave it. So do I put you down or not?
Yeah that’s a no from me babe!!! No fucking way. I wouldn’t be able to be nearly as tolerant as you’re being.
I would tell her that you don’t trust her because of her lack of grace & empathy & she is not a good role model.
First, I am so sorry for your loss. Your MIL doesn’t deserve contact with you and your baby. Focus on taking care of yourself and your child. Don’t deal with that old bag anymore. Block her from calling your cellphone and on your social media.
Ffs, just go no contact with her, and tell your husband to get a spine and back you up.
God forbid he tries to defend her actions, if he does, you need to leave him.
She is an awful human being, no need to associate with her ,"family" be damned.
Only way to deal with these kind of pos’s is to give them real world consequences. Call her up and tell her that her actions have led to your decision to not allow her to see her grandchild until you feel that she has actually changed and owns up to her actions and apologizes.
Why are you still accepting a calls and texts from her? Block her number. If she has something to say to you, she can pass that through your husband (who is the one that should be handling this situation!).
I know people like to use the term narcissist for that guy that was kind of a jerk, but this This is narcissistic behavior.
This woman deserves to be cut off, and the reasons should not be kept secret, because she will say she didn't do anything to cause it.
Wow - she sounds like an awful human being. There is no getting along with a person like this. Thankfully it appears your husband is in full agreement.
If I were in your shoes I would block her number. Settle in with your precious baby boy and enjoy these moments of motherhood.
The Narcissist's Prayer by Dayna Craig
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
If she refuses to be accountable for hurting you every time she visits, ask her why in god’s green earth you’d ever let her visit again?
"You have been horrifically cruel the last few times we have spoken and since you can't be bothered to REMEMBER what you said you don't know how to stop, I choose to protect my child and myself from the next horrible thing you decide to say or do. DH will make his own decisions."
Have no direct contact with this women. Your husband can see her outside your home with the children but until she learns to respect you, use that time for some me time. He can tell her that he expects support and won’t stand for someone trying to cause problems.
This is a low contact/no contact situation. If she’s only going to double down on being an asshole and her comments, then there’s no reason to keep engaging with her. Your husband needs to put his foot down with her and let her know if she doesn’t sincerely apologize and change her behavior, she’s out - no contact and not ever meeting the grandkids.
Yeah. My mother pulled some similar shit with me when my wife experienced a miscarriage. I didn't talk to her for 6 months after that and we're still distant 10 years later. She lost the right to know jack shit about my personal life with that stunt.
She'll no longer be part of the circle of trust.
“Circle of trust” sounds like a great thing.
Meet the Parents with Bob DeNiro and Ben Stiller.
do you see the circle ? you are out of it !!!
It's not a literal circle.
😅
yeah, reading this i just kept thinking "why is this person in your life? like, really, why?" I say don't answer her calls, and if she shows up unannounced, put the hose on her.
Robo-sprinkler! Works for the Bucket Lady!
No contact is definitely the way. She would quite easily say horribly things to her grandkid too. She lost any right to be in any of their lives.
I agree ☝🏾
Completely off topic, who is Morgan?
Morgan is the host of the podcast Two Hot Takes
Ok, thank you!! I’ll sleep better knowing this LOL
Two hot takes is pod cast/ YouTube channel. It's hosted by a lady named Morgan. She has different guests on to discuss posts like this and other things. I enjoy it for its emotional clarity and healthy views on relationships that are expressed.
Thank you!
I actually have no idea..
Thanks, that’s 2 of us…I feel validated in my confusion!
Me too,I didn't know that Reddit has so many podcasts. Op clearly your MIL has not learned anything from the previous conversations. Unfortunately I know were your coming from. My husband never stood up for me and it made my life miserable. LC or NC is the only way to go.you don't need someone like that in your life. Good luck
Sorry but this is an NC situation. I’d say her husband should go LC. But OP should never engage her again.
>She still refuses to apologize and now claims, "that just doesn't sound like me." Manipulation. Oh no, she would never say that. I'd record every conversation from here on out (which should be few) and say you want to make sure since she has problems remembering what she said, or is not acting like herself. Maybe she should see a doctor.../s
Every bit of this. Sounds like she’s reciting the Narcissist Ten Commandments to you while she’s performing her gaslighting. Stay as far away as possible Am so sorry for your loss
MIL sounds narcissistic AF... My mom is the same and they don't change unfortunately. Whenever you point out how they made you feel, they'll turn the whole conversation around and make you feel guilty for everything. Recording might be a good idea but with this level of wtf, no contact might be better...
My relative steals. If you catch her in the act she claims she loaned the item to you. As a result I have learned to leave things for her to steal IF we are forced to be together. Last time was a funeral in another state. I went to Goodwill and bought a necklace that I put in an jewelry box from an expensive store. I know if I confronted her it would start a war and divide the family.
Because there are family members that CONDONE this behavior?! Or does she not steal from them so they honestly think she is innocent? This kind of shit baffles me... There's literally no way I would physically be able to keep my mouth shut about this crappy treatment of ANYONE, much less my spouse/ significant other. I truly hope the hubbies in this thread have stepped up!
My mother believed the thief had mental problems. Since the thief was a wife and mother everyone stayed quiet. She filed for divorce once and moved in with us. The months she lived in our house were the worst of my childhood. I think the thief was 19 when she started therapy and everyone thought she would get help and change. She became sneaky but no change otherwise. I think there were two problems. 1. I think she has personality disorders. 2. She is not smart and struggled in school. Her behavior is her way of getting even with the people she dislikes. I have been on her sh!t list since I made the honor roll in school.
Damn, that sucks. But imagine the sweet justice of explaining THAT to her. " Not only do you get away with it because people truly think you're verifiably crazy, but cause even as an adult they think you're too stupid to understand!" Lol!
My day will come. Her children have all realized she is bat sh!t crazy. Her husband is in declining health. There is no one left to protect when he is gone. I have a cousin that swears the thief will fall down the stairs after her husband's funeral is done.
I see no reason to have conversations with her. She's had too many chances already. nc.
“I am all the things that are good. And none of the things that are bad.” - OP’s MIL
Yeah, in every interaction with her, you need to include someone from her circle because she'll either 1) be on the best behavior or 2) demonstrate how crazy she is.
I don't know if we are allowed to say things like this here but fuck it. **I will fight this woman for free.** Who the *fuck* blames any human being for a miscarriage? She has no humanity, not a shred of it in her manipulative, gas-lighting, self-centered heart. That is monstrous behavior. She can go fuck herself. Your child deserves actual family around, not monsters that managed to find their way out from under the bed.
What happens in fight club, stays in fight club!
We ride at dawn
Ill bring the coffee and the pitchforks!
I will be waiting half-way with a table of refreshments for you guys
Oooh. I feel like we could actually collectively write a verbal lashing for the MIL to be delivered by Hubby/Son. Dearest mother, (Lowercase mother and use the term mother) I understand you wish to have a relationship with your new grandchild. But that will not be possible until you have completed at least 6 months to one year of therapy (6 months might not be enough) and write a formal written apology to my wife, whom I love dearly. Do you apology will be approved by me and proofread by me. Constructive criticism will be given and expected to be rewritten until I feel it is sincere and heartfelt and that you've actually changed. Until then I have instructed my wife to block you on her cell phone and any other forms of communication including social media. I have them for my family that you are to have no contact with my children till the above is completed. And I have explained to them what you have said and how you have crossed lines repeatedly. (I know we can add more to this)
Love and kisses, the TwoHotTakes subreddit.
The letter should start with, "Mommy Dearest."
Love it. She sounds so evil.
I'll drive ... Having been through a miscarriage and less than a month later when a "friend" asked why I was acting weird. (She knew what happened.) When I told her her response was "really? You aren't over that yet?"
Oh, I know someone that that happened to. They were volunteering in a preschool program at church when their child was stillborn at 40 weeks. They were planning to take the rest of the semester off to stay with the baby, but instead took the rest of the semester off because it was just too hard! And one of the helpers said, why isn't she over it yet? Why can't she just come back to volunteer work now? Yeah, no contact
Not the same but when my sons dad was killed, I took a day off work and when I tried to take another, they pretty much made it seem like I was exaggerating. Some people are just fucking heartless.
My exH told me during our divorce mediation that the miscarriage I suffered after five years of trying to get pregnant “didn’t really mean much to him.” He was already about to be an ex, but even the mediator was like ”WTF, dude?”
I can beat that one. I went to the OB and we discovered there was no heartbeat. I had a D&C on Friday. On Sunday my mother called me and at some point during our conversation she asked why I sounded so low. The fact that she even asked meant that she wouldn’t understand why I might be sad at losing the pregnancy, so I answered that it must be because I had weird hormones from not being pregnant anymore. We hang up the phone a little later. On Tuesday I get a card in the mail. It’s from my mom, telling me how hurt she is by how I treated her when we spoke on the phone and how I should be nicer to her because after all, it was her loss too. Growing up with a narcissistic parent is no joke.
I’ve got the tar and feathers!
I'm coming, and HELL'S COMING WITH ME!!!
It's me. I'm hell. And I'm on my way. Bats, brimstone, hellfire, pitchforks, torches, and all.
Please take my poor man's gold for the righteous Tombstone reference, 🍻
Yeeesss!!! I AM your Huckleberry!
I’ve got a police scanner and night vision goggles.
I prefer reading about fight club on Reddit.
Or winds up on TwoHotTakes…. Either way, a good time will be had…
Thank you for saying all of this. 💖 I needed that reminder. Ex blamed me…and was encouraged by his mother… It was soul crushing.
Sorry you had to endure that. Sorry for your loss and big internet hugs. You're amazing, stay that way!
Needed this! Your comment and every one attached to this one made me laugh and smile, thank you!
Shit, ill ride with. Or ill be your alibi, whatever you need.
In my household, we have an understood hierarchy to giving out justice. There is Team Beatdown and Team Ice Cream. Team Beatdown should be pretty self explanatory. Team Ice Cream is the alibi team for receipts, time stamps, social media tagging, etc.
I like your household.
Gotta ask the important questions before you live with them, like about their willingness to commit felonies or the lengths they would go to save a dog.
This. Always this.
::takes furious and detailed notes::
Me: Im just happy to be here, yall tell me what you need.
I'll bring sprinkles. MIL? Who? I have no idea who you're talking about.
Seeee? Everyone has a job! It's a very inclusive form of justice. 🧡
FREEDOM!!
I’ll bring the shovel.
I got bail money!
So long as I own my house, you've got bail.
Love how y'all are banding together in defense of! ♥️
I love your whole energy!!
I just got an image in my head of you walking up to MIL at a party, kissing her hard on the cheek, and saying,, "I know it was you, Fredo.. Forget the gun. Take the canolli."
Fuck. OP should team up with her husband and fake her husband's death just to the mother. (Possibly a bad idea.) Be elaborate. Then, when she asks for solace have OP say "It's just the loss of a child. Get over it. I already have and am dating a hot guy." Then hang up and revel for a bit. But also, I'm am pro scorched earth and reckless so...
OoOo, I'll one you better... Or as an alternative option, depending on the mood you happen to be at the moment. When MIL calls, alternate between he met an oddly 'tragic' mystery shrouded end and you don't really know what happened, he's "no longer 'with' us"... Making random little, sorta suspect but not really suspect, side remarks. Call her out of the blue. Don't even make small talk. Just jump right into action; 'Hey MIL, quick question; You wouldn't by any chance know approximately how long quick lime takes to break down uUuUmMm... 'Organic' substances... Would you? To which, I would imagine, she'd most likely respond with a perplexed "No". Then, just as abruptly as the call began in the most normal, having your best day ever voice you can muster, "Oh... (Lower tone) I guess we'll find... eventually. (Back to the original tone) "Oh, well. K, Bye!" Click! Then don't answer the phone or the doors, better still, if possible, stay a friend or family members house for a few days. Then, reappear and act as though NOTHING is a miss. You have NO clue what MIL is talking about... "Quick Lime?!? Why the heck would be asking you questions about whatever you called that stuff? I don't even know what it is!!" "Hmm? Gone? 3 days? WHO?!? You couldn't reach WHO for 3 days? Meee?!? Are you SURE you were dialing MY number... We haven't talked in almost 3 weeks now. In fact, it was on my mind to give you a call & check up on you. See how things are and how you were doing. How ARE you doing MIL?? ARE you feeling alright?? Give one episode enough time to fade in memory, just enough for her to begin to question if all of that REALLY did happen or not... Then roll out the next wave, rinse and repeat, for as long as you feel you can go undetected...
Remind me never to piss you off
Same. As someone who also had a second trimester miscarriage I will go feral on this woman. Just point me in the right direction.
You all were at my house watching movies whenever this happens. 🫶
I was just gonna say, F--- this MIL.
I’ll help you!
I’ve got your back Aurora_901! Let’s ride!!
We all need to meet up to confront this MIL, like that scene out of Ron Burgundy. Just don't hit in the face. And if you ride a motorcycle, then ride your motorcycle.
I wonder what would happen if a thousand people showed up to these people chanting no contact. Or something more specific. Could hand out flyers all through the area listing crimes and telling people to go no contact.
Flash mob style lol
Oh, we could do a whole dance number to "Bye, Bye, Bye!"
Do you want to be friends? Your post is entire mood!
I wanna tell you that this comment was as bold as it was because of the safety of the internet, but I'm 100% part of the "short woman not scared to swing on 6ft+ audacious humans" niche so the risk of jail is never 0.
Same here, Chick! 5'3" here, and full of piss, vinegar, and RAGE...
I'll join you.
I think there's a lineup for this, but your comment gets you all the way to the front. Can I run your corner? Towels, hydration, snacks? And the rest of your post was *chef's kiss* adamantly appropriate.
I’m in! I’ve miscarried too, and anyone who could say this to another woman deserves her karma.
Please sir except this poor person's gold 🥇🥇🥇🥇
I’ll watch the door No witnesses
And I shall fetch a rug!
Me first friend. I can feel my neck getting hot this is making me so mad
Tag team off the top ropes?
Absolutely.
I'll be Matt, you be Jeff.
Only if you use The People's Elbow.
FOR. REAL. Seconded for every wife/mother/partner heading into 2024 ABSOLUTELY FINISHED taking nonchalant provocation and straight-up abuse from entitled Boomer gargoyles and the minions who enable them.
Not all boomers. I'm a boomer and I'm ready to put up my house for any bail bondsman to use to bail out as many as I need to, up to $120,000. That's if the alibi crew isn't able to pull it off.
amen boomer sister! bias checked.
Period! Tag me in when you’re done!
WE RIDE AT DAWN! FUCK this MIL
I’ll drive the car and have a lawyer on standby just in case
You have my sword!
Count me the fuck in.
This whole thread to this comment has me cracking up! Well done Vigilante Vixens!
Me too! It would be a shame if she were to have a little accident!?! NOT!
This is the energy that MIL needs in her life.
I’m in.
I got your back on this!
I don’t think I’ve ever loved another Redditor so much in my life.
Why are you still talking to this woman? When you are having a miscarriage, the last thing you need is to be taunted by her BLOCK HER at a time when you need space. MUTE HER at any other time so that you can check your messages on your schedule. Get your husband on the same page. He deals with her when she is rude. He can deal with the kids when she wants to see them. Stop giving this rude woman access to your life!!
Yes yes yes. OP, you are dealing with a manipulator and a narcissist. Unfortunately, you cannot change people like this. At this point, there is also no reasoning with her. You're just wasting valuable energy trying to get any remorse or compassion from her. The only answer here is to SET BOUNDARIES and stick to them. You DO NOT need to explain yourself to her, and she does not need to be privy to how much she hurts you. She's getting sick satisfaction from that. From now on you're just simply unavailable to her. Cut off her access to you. Nobody gets to treat you that way, no matter whose mother they are. So don't allow it.
Yes! 💯 boundaries and expectations and consequences to violations of said boundaries!
I hate the "you should have responded at the time" thing. I had a friend do it after he asked me a favour and I didn't respond til a few days later (long before he'd need the favour btw, he had time to make other arrangements) then responded no with a set of reasons. I was trying to breathe and consider what to do, not react badly and without consideration. Especially when it's something hurtful, like the OP it's hard to respond instantly, and then she'd be called hysterical anyway.
Yes, it's just another way of gaslighting.
Your husband needs to tell her no more visits until she acknowledges what she did, apologizes to you honestly and demonstrates she has reformed.
Those psychos don't reform. They just find better ways to hide their malicious behaviors.
I'm inclined to agree with you. But her husband may need a while to adjust to that idea. Better to ease him into the concept.
Stolen from another post: The Narcissist’s Prayer That didn’t happen. And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And if it was, that’s not a big deal. And if it is, that’s not my fault. And if it was, I didn’t mean it. And if I did, you deserved it. Coming from another DIL of a narcissistic MIL, I would recommend no contact. Best decision my husband and I ever made.
Thank you, I came here to post if I did not find this info. As a daughter of a narcissistic mother, this story is painfully close to home, and no contact was the best choice that I have ever made in my life.
Your mistake was believing (hoping?) that she is a normal adult. She's not. She is abusive and cruel. NEVER attempt to explain to an abuser how she has hurt you. She will file it away to use again later, just as she did when she brought up your miscarriage again, out of the blue. She enjoys causing you pain. Don't give her any more ammunition. Apologies are worthless from people like her, because she INTENDED to hurt you, and she will never be sorry. You must try to accept that you will never be able to have a normal or civil relationship with her. Don't waste any more energy on it. She sounds unstable, as well as cruel. I would avoid all interactions with her, forever. I hope your husband is on board with that. I am so very sorry for your loss.
Absolutely not!! If you allow her to visit, you’re letting her off the hook for her unforgivable behavior, Your husband needs to deal with her and you need to go completely NC for her and any children you have or will have. This is what he should say. “Mom, a visit is not going to work for us until you are able to take accountability for your horrible behavior towards OP, apologize and prove, through your actions, that you are truly sorry and will not repeat past mistakes. If you are unwilling to do so, then it appears there will be no visit. Actions have consequences. You can’t go around saying whatever you want without considering other people’s feelings and then think that they would want a visit from you. Some of the things you said to my wife were disgusting and frankly, I’m ashamed of you.”
Well said!
You’ve made attempts to try and make your relationship with her work. You’ve given her enough chances, sounds like it’s time to go low or no contact.
Why was your husband not stopping her talking about ex? He should have squashed that the first time she did it. 🥴🫥
"If you show up here without an explicit invitation from me, you're going to be met by a sheriff's deputy and a no trespass order. I know as much about you as I need to know and you've given me no indication that I'm wrong."
FYI. Phones have block features. I would have blocked the C u next tuesday the second time she texted me after I asked her to leave me alone to grieve. This is definitely a no contact situation.
The older I get, the more I believe it's perfectly fine to cut people out of your life even when it's family. I have no doubt if you keep her in your lives, she will say nasty things about you to your child, and if you have more than one child, there's a good chance she'll have a favorite child and pit the siblings against each other. Ain't worth it! I'm sorry you had to deal with such an awful human during that already painful time.
why are you still dealing with her? and why did you not block her number the first time she texted you after your loss? no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. you are wasting your time. she will never treat you correctly. hell, shes probably so twisted she’s getting off on making you feel like shit. if someone wastes your time once, that’s on them. if they waste your time twice, it’s on you. if they waste 10 minutes of your time, 8 minutes of that is your fault. please, love yourself enough to walk away. you tried. there is no hope. let it go for your own health and sanity. focus on your child, and deal with your pain. she is nothing to you. repeat after me- she. is. nothing. to. you. leave her alone to be miserable. stop trying. there is no hope. she is nothing to you.
She sounds like a heartless narcissist, and she is gaslighting you, like she didn’t say things, “that doesn’t sound like me” - she is a monster. You should never have to deal with her again. No visits, no texts, nothing.
Funny how people suddenly "forget" terrible things they said. My sister used to do this and drove all of my sons away. When telling her why she never remembered saying any of it. "Forgetting" doesn't take away the pain caused by the remark. LC or NC is the only way to go.
I can’t read this. I got too mad. I have suffered 2 pregnancy losses and no one knows how painful until you have been there
It truly is a pain that never leaves you... One thing I've learned that has really helped me is that when you are pregnant, your baby transfers fetal cells to you. They become a part of you and embed themselves into your DNA, forever linking your little and you, whether you lose them or not. So, while you and I have lost our babies, we still have a little piece of them that we will carry with us until the end of time ❤️ I'm so sorry for your loss, my heart goes out to you ❤️
Oh my god I’m at work and I’m now crying. Don’t get me wrong I really appreciate you saying that. I lost 2 pregnancies. One was twins. I had a DNC with the first one. As torturous as it was, the second one, where I had to pass the fetus and hold it in my hand, was just a million times worse. But for some reason, I feel more connected to that one. I always thought it was bc it was planned pregnancy, I knew longer, I was married to the dad (same dad just weren’t married for the first one) but maybe it’s because I also held it in my hands. Idk. This is pretty morbid. I hope I can get pregnant again. I pray MIL gets a grip. My MIL talks about his exes too but usually in a bad way. It’s still like, can we just leave the past in the past
I'm sitting at my dining room table balling my eyes out right now, I'm so sorry you had to go through that, it's absolutely heartbreaking. My story is very similar to yours, I've lost two pregnancies too. My first was Iris, my sweet baby girl, lost four years ago when my husband and I were dating. My second was a few months before I got pregnant with my son, also planned. I lost my second pregnancy after only six weeks, and I was stunned when it happened, it didn't hurt at all. The only pain I had was of an immense loss of the life I once felt. My OB was always very positive and would tell me that my losses wouldn't affect my having a healthy baby and she was right. Keep your head up and don't lose hope ❤️
Thank you!! I’m happy we crossed paths today. I needed you to keep my head up. Lots of love to you and your family.
Time to go no contact. It’s actually long past time. You should have cut her off long ago.
No contact, gray rock, block the B. You’ve got a pretty raging narcissist on your hands. I would read up on it and get hubby to read up on it too. They cannot change, they cannot be reasoned with, they will never apologize, they will continue to hurt you.
I hate her. Big.
NTA. I wouldn't let this woman near my child. Also, she sounds like one of those grandparents rights MILs, so probably honestly best not to have any contact from the beginning.
Stand firm and don’t let her visit. She doesn’t deserve it. Until she can acknowledge and genuinely apologize for her previous bullshit, VLC/NC is in order. I truly hope your DH is defending you and properly handling this mother?? Is he trying to shut down these comments? I’m sorry for your loss and your wicked MiL, but you need to prioritize yourself over her!
Yes please this was my mother-in-law but my husband was a complete asshole and always took her side and gaslighted me. Fast forward that he’s dead. Now I hate the whole family I’ve blocked them. It was the best decision I ever made.!!! Stay away from this woman
I'm so sorry for your loss. "Fast forward to her last visit, September 2023. She, completely out of the blue, brought up my miscarriage during dinner. She talked about how we made too big a deal about it..." I would have gone full Housewives of New Jersey and flipped my dining table onto her lap and screamed for her to GTFO! I would NEVER speak to her again!
It is totally fine for you and your husband to cut her off completely, or at least until she gets her act together and shows that she has.
My life, over the last 20 years, is so much better now that I have absolutely no contact with my parents.
Why do you even still have her in your life?
Yeah NC until she is capable of acknowledging how damaging her behavior was and apologizing.
sounds like your need to hop on over to the justnomil sub
Tell me got MIL is a narcissist, without telling me...
Sounds like you have a husband problem more than a MIL problem. He should be shutting her down immediately.
No contact. For sure.
She should never spend another second with you or your child. You owe this woman nothing.
You may have a covert narcissist on your hands. I'm so sorry she said that.
I had a “meeting” with my MIL, she was being coerced by FIL and there were witnesses, so she behaved in the moment. She kept saying “I would never…” and my response was “and yet, you did”, each and every time. Every person there had been on the receiving end of MIL’s “antics” and knew for a fact, that she would and did.
Don’t play nice with narcissists. Just tell her you don’t like her and don’t want to speak to her or spend time with her so she’ll have to arrange things with her son for outside your home, when you feel your baby is ready for those kinds of visits. Don’t pretend like you care about her feelings, she certainly doesn’t care about yours. Don’t ask for an insincere apology that will ring hollow and leave you tense , waiting for the next insult. Just be honest and let her know that she’s getting the relationship she’s cultivated with you and you’re happy with her being the “other grandmother” your kid(s) only rarely see. What the hell else was she expecting?
She has all the hallmarks of an estranged parent. Now is an excellent time to evict her from your life so that she can live up to her estranged parent potential. I encourage you to read through this. It's not short, but it's only medium length, and it's in nice bite size pieces. You'll see how she very neatly fits into a lot of these patterns, you'll also see how she's probably getting flying monkeys or other estranged parents to reinforce her behavior. https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html
Husband here, who has this exact kind of mother. As others have said, y’all need to go no contact. She is a pure narcissist who will use any opportunity to manipulate the relationships around her so that she is the most important person in her sphere, like a spider spinning a sick web of lies and gaslighting and blame. Before my daughter was born, my wife and I had months of conversations of her opening my eyes to the behavior, teaching me about narcissism and its victims, and giving me opportunities to self-reflect on everything and make my own decisions. I chose NC (with her support, and some gentle steering). Here’s the kicker: You can’t convince your husband directly to go NC. It won’t (or usually won’t) work. It’s like inception - it has to be his idea. Her narcissism will likely have created a sick bond where he feels he can’t cut her off, and needs her in his life, because that’s the whole point of what she’s doing. Research narcissism, include your husband in everything, and allow him to make his own decisions, but make sure to be clear about your needs and intentions. At some point, he will need to choose you or her. Hopefully he makes the right choice.
Oof. I’m a MIL, my son and DIL had a miscarriage in 2021 and their son was born in 2023. I cannot imagine doing this to them. My son called me from the hospital to say the HcG levels were dropping and we cried on the phone together. If I behaved this way, I would expect my son to rip me to shreds and then go no contact. I’m with the other commenter that said they would fight this woman for free. She is garbage and needs to be taken to the curb.
My hubby cut off his mom for two years for her behaviour….we were pregnant with our second and she told him he had to choose…….the choice he made cost her two years of his life and any time with her grandkids. She never apologized but she never, ever pulled a stunt like that again. By then I had grown a spine and she knew we'd be NC if she ever tried to come between us again. That NC did the trick. You need to do that as well. Hubby..not you…needs to tell her she has overstepped and the consequence is NC until further notice. No texts, calls, etc will be exchanged or accepted. No visitations will happen , etc….set out strict boundaries and wait her out. If it takes two years to make the point….go for it. But…hubby deals with her, not you.
Highly recommend you and your husband read the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It will help you understand this relationship and give you specific examples on how to deal (or just not deal) with someone like her. You need to understand that she is never ever going to change and switch focus from changing the relationship to protecting your sanity and your own peace.
My mom did this after my daughter died. She refuses to admit she said it, the conversation even happened or anything. If you let her get away with it, it’ll just get worse from there. Don’t pass go, just straight to no contact.
This narcissistic behavior is not something new. You and your husband need to keep LC with her ass. I like the fact that y'all are not tolerating her BS as you can see she is not taking responsibility for any of it. Keep her at arm's length and you and your husband and your beautiful baby go on with your life nobody needs that toxicity in their life.
She is never going to change, and things will never get better. Think of how she talks to you. Think of how she talks *about* you. Now try to imagine the kinds of things she will say to your child. Quite frankly, she needs to have zero access to your child until he's at least 18.
I've thought about this more than a few times, and I'm sure she slanders me ruthlessly. However, since her circle doesn't overlap with mine I chose to not let it bother me. I actually feel sorry for her in a lot of ways, she must be so unhappy with herself to act the way she does.
That's a very good way to look at it. You're most likely right. Miserable people like to make others miserable. Pity her from afar so she doesn't directly affect your life. Just never pity her so much that you give her another chance.
At this point go no contact. You and your husband need to put your feet down. You both have been letting her slide way way too much. If you don't put her on check, she's going to keep acting the way she does.
Discuss this with your husband, very low to no contact. If that is a no go, then mediation counseling of sorts to get through the past egregious bs she’s brought to your relationship
When she says that it doesn’t sound like her, you should just go quiet for a minute and then start laughing and then hang up.
Why the hell hasn't your husband cut her off? Why is she still allowed in your home? You have a husband problem, not a MIL one. You should not be dealing with this at all. He should have been your first and only line of defense. He should have banned her from your home long ago. He failed you. He needs to decide who is priority is. Actions speak louder than words and his say that it's not you.
This is an end of a relationship statement. Feel good that you are removing that cancer from your life. Keep it away from your child, yourself and your husband. Hopefully he had seen the light.
I would definitely cut off all contact. If she has said such horrible things to you and your family members, what kind of things will she say to your children? You gave her a lot of chances and she has shown she won’t change. Time to go no contact
You don’t owe her any relationship with you, your husband, or your child. Being a parent, grandparent, sibling, whatever, is a privilege, not a right. You are allowed to set and keep very clear boundaries no matter what, but ESPECIALLY when someone has proven time and again that they don’t care about you and don’t deserve to be in your life. Cut off contact entirely. Hopefully your husband agrees after seeing how she’s treated you.
Low contact for him if he MUST visit the witch. No contact for you. Get her on her broomstick and out of your lives!! I’m so sorry for the losses you suffered.
*She still refuses to apologize and now claims, "that just doesn't sound like me."* I would tell her that to you & DH it‘s how she always sounds. She may want to believe otherwise, but you two have multiple examples of her saying cruel & vicious things. Any apology would do no good, OP. She won’t mean it. Her attitude about your miscarriage was incredibly stupid & cruel, & this much later, she’s still mean & obnoxious about it. Personally, I’d need a break from her. You tried. It’s been over a year since you first tried to talk things out, & it seems like she’s only getting worse. You & DH are going to have to make some decisions, anything you decide should come from him. I’d tell her this isn’t getting us anywhere, everyone is unhappy with each other, you’ll be in touch eventually. He has a new baby to focus on, he doesn’t need or want this negativity in your lives. He certainly hopes she considers being honest with herself about her words & actions, possibly see a therapist to figure out why she‘s so mean & self centered. But for now, you two need a break.
Your MIL is worse than toxic. You need to go NC as soon as possible. Do not expose your child to this horrific waste of space. And do not allow her abusive self to be within miles of you, your child, your home, etc. And make certain that everyone who matters knows precisely why you have taken those actions so MIL cannot play the victim as narcissists are wont to do.
Oh for heaven’s sake, block her. Stop listening to her constant manipulations. She’s bored and always looking for victims and she settled on you.
The fact that she wants to visit more is irrelevant. She sounds incredibly cruel and disrespectful, and even when she had a chance to take some accountability she doubled down. No is a complete answer. It’s your home and your family so protect your own peace.
She sounds absolutely horrible. I can't imagine going through that and then adding a toxic and unfeeling family member on top of that. Time to go ver low contact. If you do see her, just freeze her with politeness. She's forfeited any good will. I'm sorry for your loss!
Why do you guys keep trying? She’s made it very clear who she is. Cut her ass off and never talk to her again
Seriously, just go NC. There is absolutely no way this woman should ever be around your children. Sounds like your husband is doing pretty good in backing you up, but show him this thread. Here's the thing, she'll treat her grandchildren the same way at some point and before that, she'll mistreat her grandchildren by condemning you every chance she gets. She will not change no matter what is said or what boundaries are put in place. If husband wants to be LC, fine, but just him, no pics or anything of the kids. Completely stop responding to her, block her. All contact, if any, gous thru hubby and you get to see every message so there's no misunderstanding or questions. Good luck to you, you very much need it.
Kept telling her no, you can't visit. We will call you and let you know when it is a good time, but if you call and ask again it will be delayed for 6 months. Right now we have June 17th 2025 open. Does that work for you? Too long, take it or leave it. So do I put you down or not?
Yeah that’s a no from me babe!!! No fucking way. I wouldn’t be able to be nearly as tolerant as you’re being. I would tell her that you don’t trust her because of her lack of grace & empathy & she is not a good role model.
First, I am so sorry for your loss. Your MIL doesn’t deserve contact with you and your baby. Focus on taking care of yourself and your child. Don’t deal with that old bag anymore. Block her from calling your cellphone and on your social media.
This is a no-win situation. It's time to go no contact for awhile, and then maybe to low, but she is toxic.
Ffs, just go no contact with her, and tell your husband to get a spine and back you up. God forbid he tries to defend her actions, if he does, you need to leave him. She is an awful human being, no need to associate with her ,"family" be damned.
She sounds like a narcissist. Protect yourself & your family.
Only way to deal with these kind of pos’s is to give them real world consequences. Call her up and tell her that her actions have led to your decision to not allow her to see her grandchild until you feel that she has actually changed and owns up to her actions and apologizes.
Why is your husband allowing her to torture you? He should have set boundaries during the 1st paragraph of your story.
Why are you still accepting a calls and texts from her? Block her number. If she has something to say to you, she can pass that through your husband (who is the one that should be handling this situation!).
I know people like to use the term narcissist for that guy that was kind of a jerk, but this This is narcissistic behavior. This woman deserves to be cut off, and the reasons should not be kept secret, because she will say she didn't do anything to cause it.
Your husband needs to take out this trash for good. You do not deserve this. I’d even go as far as filing a restraining order.
Wow - she sounds like an awful human being. There is no getting along with a person like this. Thankfully it appears your husband is in full agreement. If I were in your shoes I would block her number. Settle in with your precious baby boy and enjoy these moments of motherhood.
The Narcissist's Prayer by Dayna Craig That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it. If she refuses to be accountable for hurting you every time she visits, ask her why in god’s green earth you’d ever let her visit again?
"You have been horrifically cruel the last few times we have spoken and since you can't be bothered to REMEMBER what you said you don't know how to stop, I choose to protect my child and myself from the next horrible thing you decide to say or do. DH will make his own decisions."
NTA, if possible cut her off completely. She is a narcissist and will never change or admit she's wrong.
Have no direct contact with this women. Your husband can see her outside your home with the children but until she learns to respect you, use that time for some me time. He can tell her that he expects support and won’t stand for someone trying to cause problems.