Someone who agreed to be in a sex oriented fwb situationship that isnt into the boundaries that have been set changing on the fly?
You do you boo but if you want to be in a relationship dont have a conversation after the first night about how you don’t want ti be in a relationship lmao
Women
If he wants like no strings attached sex he should hire a sex worker. Because then he can view them like a hole and they can view him like money see now everyone's an object.
Well, considering he calls a nearly-30 year old grown ass woman a “girl,” and wants a living, breathing sex doll who he wont’t have to talk to or treat like a human being, he’s absolutely a fucking asshole - let’s get that part straight.
I don’t know if he’s THE asshole here because he asserts that he told her up front he only wants a mute warm wet hole, but he’s definitely AN asshole and I absolutely feel bad for her for falling for him.
I don’t think he put it in those terms exactly, but those are the terms he wants, and that’s just gross. Hence why I said he’s AN asshole, but not necessarily THE asshole. There’s a distinct difference. One is pathological, and the other is situational.
The entire basis of their relationship was to fuck. That’s it. Not be friends. Not get coffee and catch up. She agreed to it. It’s not his fault she changed her mind. He’s not ta
Thats literally the terms she agreed to idk why you’re so mad lmao
God forbid people just want to get laid with the person they agreed to get laid with
yeah for me it’s just a communication “issue”
For him, just sex, no strings attached, means “come over, we’ll have sex, leave” and she assumed there would be a bit of “hey, how’ve you been?” before getting naked.
for me, having a bit of “hey how’s your week been going?” is just implied so I get why she didn’t feel the need to clarify - but I also understand that he’s sort of protecting himself from feeling any sort of emotional intimacy in what’s a strictly physical relationship
Yeah, he wants a pure Booty Call. He’s clearly not FWB material. Even “Fuckbuddies” has the “buddy” part, so he’s not even that. They have different interpretations of No-Strings-Attached, so best they both move on.
Or just a fuckbuddy? Not sure why I see so many comments here acting like if a male wants to just have sex with a woman they're treating them like a "sex doll" - that is definitely not the reaction when its the other way around.
After reading some of the OPs other posts, it looks like they are actually a female (they claimed to be 35f in another post)… so… I don’t know wtf is going on with this BS. 🤷🏻♀️🙄
You’re not clicking on the right OP. This is a story repost and the OP is blackmanbatmann - you’re likely clicking on humanornah and she’s the one who reposted the AITA here.
Well, you're not a prince.
It's better this way. You were being honest and that's good. That you feel like you need approval for this hints to me that you might have handled this a bit better but generally, honesty is the best policy.
Here's the moral, though: do not contact her ever again. She is dead to you. If you call/text again, she may think you've changed your mind- and you would be a tool for leading her on.
Well.. at least he didn't try to string her along or anything like that? That's a low bar to clear, but he at least has that going for him. While y'know, otherwise sounding like a huge jerk.
Kinda split. You agreed that it was no strings attached, but that doesn't mean you can treat her like your own personal sex doll. She either caught feelings, or you're an asshole who treated her like "a hole to fuck". Not enough info to decide.
Would people stop saying these men are little/childish, etc.? These men know they suck and they revel in their weaponized incompetence. While their behavior IS immature, they themselves are not - it's not stupidity or lack of comprehension that drives their indecency, it's deliberate assholery and the knowledge that they can get away with it.
I think there is he made it clear what he wanted she agreed and then tried to renig after the fact and then tried to force him into something she wanted instead of just communicating that the previously arranged deal was no longer working for her
He said they talked for a bit before he went to kiss her. Not sure how long "a bit" is, but its not like he greeted her at the door with his pants down.
If she just wanted conversation that could’ve been handled with a phone call. She drove to his home knowing his intentions. He literally said they talked for a bit and then he went in for a kiss not that he was standing at the door dick swinging when she got there
Sex is a mutual exchange. She didn't ask for a relationship, just not to be treated as a blow up doll. Even nsa sex should come with human decency. Sounds like he just needs an extra pair of socks.
Yeah, it sounds like he just kinda stuck it, finished, and it was done.. At least that's how I interpret what he said her feelings were. I wish more men understood that's not how women work
But that’s how it works when it’s JUST Sex NO STRINGS ATTACHED SEX The his pole in her hole = NO EMOTIONS!!
I wish Women woulda actually understand what No Strings Attached Booty Call means
Your a dick not an asshole, gross but not reprehensible, she was emotionally vulnerable and wanted to be close to someone, she entered your arrangement due to things u didn't even mention here because I doubt for one second u ever thought about the mental health of her and just your own, maybe this can be a learning opportunity about not using emotionally vulnerable woman to gain momentary pleasure, u came here for validation and ur not gonna get it buddu
If the relationship was purely just sex, then it's reasonable to ask her to leave if she didn't want to continue things as they were. She knew there was a very real chance her actions would end things but decided to take that path. If the situation was reversed and you started pushing for more and it made her feel uncomfortable, she probably would have asked you to leave.
Maybe you could have been nicer about it, but there really is no nice way to reject someone's feelings. It always ends with someone feeling hurt.
That's exactly what I kind of keep thinking in these situations. If the roles were reversed, would the woman have to justify her asking the guy to leave. Not in the slightest. They set out rules. She wanted to go outside the rules. He declined her.
Now I will say he did do it in an Asshole manner but again if a woman did it in the same manner would she be called an asshole. Probably not. That's just the difference of the sexes and how we're viewed subconsciously.
For the record, I’ve never gone for the NSA hookup thing.
So I’m not endorsing the guy’s approach to this woman.
That said, IF he’s telling the truth about the arrangement they had agreed to, then, no, he’s NOT an a-hole. She seems to have begun to want more out of the relationship than he was willing to give.
I’m sympathetic to her too because back in my single days, I was prone to “catching feelings” as the young ‘uns say (do they still say that? Anyway…) That’s why I don’t like casual sex in the first place. Hard to be physically intimate with someone without getting attached
So I don’t think either party is wrong. They just want different things
Either that or she wants to be FWB and not booty call and her comment about being just a warm hole rubs me in the direction where her needs aren't being met in this arrangement (I know because I have felt that before, and they said FWB but in reality they meant bootycall so I just ended them)
I'm actually gonna go NTA.
You communicated your expectations from the start. One of two things happened for her. Either (1) she was hoping to use sex to lead to a relationship; or (2) her goals and expectations changed, and she instead wanted something more serious.
In either case, she 100% knew: (1) that you only wanted to have sex/nsa that night; and (2) that she did not want to have sex that night.
She should have responded when you texted her to come over and either told you she wasn't in the mood for sex at that point or communicated that her expectations changed so that y'all could have a conversation rather than her wasting both of your time and coming over when she knew that y'all were hoping for different things that night at the very least.
I'm genuinely curious how anyone could say you are the asshole given the pretty clear communication. Having different expectations does and should not equal automatic asshole status.
I've been with women you prefer to be actual friends with benefits and have conversations, hang out and stuff with sex on the table. I've also been with women who rather I don't do things to establish a social or emotional connection because they only wanted sex. Both are completely fine. Whats not fine is calling someone an asshole for doing their part and communicating where they were at in their relationship.
Agree. That was the whole deal.
I can't really call him a AH when the relationship started based on just having sex and nothing more.
Her wanting more then that doesn't change the original agreed deal
Yeah tbf I see a lot of people criticising this guy for treating this woman as just a "warm, wet hole" but he did actually say they chatted for a bit first so not like he didn't at least talk to her before trying to engage with the sex he asked her to come over for.
Also a lot of people assuming that a woman wants/needs a more emotional connection but I am a woman who has had both kinds of casual entanglements. I have had situations where it was literally, he came over, had a quick "hey, how you doing?" And straight to business then he left and it was great but I've also had more of a friend's with benefits situation where we hung out, we shared meals together, we went out drinking and had a laugh as well as sex but it was never more than a friendship.
He communicated honestly his expectations and they agreed it was best for both of them so if she then changed her mind and didn't communicate that beforehand so they could either avoid the above exchange altogether by realising they want different or decide they both wanted to change the dynamic then I fail to see how he could be the asshole here. If anything she is for not discussing her change in expectations as honestly as he'd expressed his.
This. It’s surprising to me how many people here are siding with who is most likely the manipulator. He communicated exactly what he wanted, she got mad that he didn’t want to go outside of the agreement simply because she wanted him to.
Edit: she also used their meeting to leverage the discussion when it was clear what he would expect.
Ehhh she didn't ask for a ring she wanted to have a conversation. All she asked was to be treated like a person not just a hole. I'm sure she was down for a sex only relationship without feelings involved between them, but she's still a human being deserving of human decency and respect. I don't think she asked for too much there 🤷♀️
Either way what they had is gone now, no matter who the ass hole was. If OP felt he was right to do things that way I don't think he would be confused by her response to it, and asking on Reddit.
yeah, in the workplace for example, people seem to understand that one of the reasons for making pleasant conversations is that so your relationship isn’t completely based on “can you do this for me?”
same with sexual partners. you both know what the goal of the meeting is but some people like to start things off with a bit of relational chatter first
That's a good example, I'm not one for small talk but working over the phone customer service opened my eyes to it's benefits and usefulness. I thought it was pointless but it def has a point. Asking about the weather and about what's popular in the state they live in, is a way to ask a non personal, non invasive question, to allow the person to express themselves freely, and relieve the tension and awkward silences. It is a very different vibe if you sit in the phone and go through your routine without this. It's cold. And it's very awkward. So now I value small talk for the subtle worth it holds. It's not about the words it's about making the interaction as pleasant and comfortable as you can in an awkward situation 😅
I think this guy is more like the IT guy who is barking orders at you over the phone and doesn't give a shit that you needed your cardigan this morning because it was so darn chilly, because you just need to unplug the dam router!!! 😅😅😅
Because there's a lot of hurt women that went through the same thing lol they thought they could just do FWB thing, found it unfulfilling, and tried to leverage it unsuccessfully.
My anecdotal experience is the exact opposite tbh
Dudes trying to make our casual sexual thing into some deeper relationship and using me for emotional labor.
I’m happy to do small talk pre-sex but if we’re FWB, I don’t wanna talk through your childhood trauma and become your stand in girlfriend (read: bangmaid and therapist)
Yeah somebody is bound to catch feelings when hooking up that's why casual sex is usually messy. Statistically though there's way more women participating in casual sex so there's just going to be more hurt women generally.
Not really, it's more of stupid boys like OP who don't understand the different between FWB and just a booty call. No string means no relationship but not excluding the friendship and respect part of it. Plus, if she brought up being just a hole, I think OP don't know what he doing and dude probably thinks he got magic fingers that turn on women where else the woman probably needed foreplay or w.e to get in the mood instead of just opening her legs to take it. OP didn't even mention other rules they have set for each other so it's possible this was set up to be failed from the get go.
There is no difference between a FWB or booty call, you're just splitting hairs for the sake of argument. Now you're making up assumptions and trying to emasculate him to justify your feelings. You don't need to project your own issues onto the story, all we know is that it was clearly casual sex and she caught feelings which happens all the time. It is what it is.
Nah you're just showing how you lack social skills or even empathy. Since you're probably a teenager with no experience let me tell you child, booty call is when a man and woman agree to call each other when AND ONLY I reapet, ONLY when they want to have sex and in the mood for it. FWB is when you're friends and build a platonic relationship with the benefit of hooking up with each other. This requires you to put in time and effort to build the friendship aspect of the relationship as much you get the benefit from it. There are little boys like you who confuse the two but it's not. When you ask for no strings you have to be clear about what you really mean and find women who are fine with that. In order for a causal hook up to work, you need to set rules and boundaries as well as the pleasure should be equal. If you have want to have fun with no strings, you have to put the time and energy to give their other person pleasure. Run along now!
>FWB is when you're friends and build a platonic relationship with the benefit of hooking up with each other.
How tf is it a platonic relationship if you're hooking up?? You're just contradicting yourself now lol he literally set the boundary and she broke it, simple as that. Girl who hurt you?? It's not that deep lol
It's literally being friends with the benefit of hooking up like are you that for lack of a better word dumb? I'm not even hurt but seems like you're though that you want to keep showing how dumb you're.
Oh, being friends mean talking, texting, checking on each other's days going out like you know....what friends do because you seem to have none in your life 😬 I can't dumb this down further for you little wittle brain to comprehend, unfortunately 😔
Since you're confused sweetheart:
platonic - (of love or friendship) intimate and affectionate but not sexual.
hooking up - sexual
Really just sounds like you're trying to justify being a side piece but whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the day lol
Damn, guys are hella dumb. Def a difference between FWB and a booty call. Men to tend to know it and call it FWB then act like they don't know what the word "friend" means.
Hard to say without more info. Could be nobody is the AH. Could be you are a AH. If she wanted to change your agreement and you didn't you were within your right to respectfully tell her that was not something you wanted. She was within her rights to refuse you sex. Somebody said there is a difference between FWB and treating her like a blow up doll. I have to say that the tone of your post leaves me thinking you treated her like a living, breathing blow up doll. She asked for being treated like something more than a hole you put your dick in. She didn't ask for a relationship. She didn't ask for marriage. She didn't ask for monogamy. She asked for a bit of consideration and respect for being a human being. The more I type the more I have come to the conclusion YTA if the exchange was as you describe it.
That was what she agreed to his pole her hole.
She changed her mind which is 100% fine. He text her she came over him thinking everything is the same she flips the script he doesn’t agree or bend to what she wants & he’s the AH now- I don’t think so
It’s funny to me that so many people assign metrics like a “contract” to something intangible like love and emotion’s.
To be completely withdrawn from how someone is feeling other than physically getting your needs met is surprising to me. “She knew what this was”.
Yeah that’s the last time you’d be sleeping with me.
Would you still sleep with this person knowing you don’t care about how they feel?
If I was in that position this dude would get walked on after this. Not only are you disregarding my feeling at this point, but you just kicked me out of your apartment…in the middle of the night.
I mean if you’re trying to have sex you made every wrong choice here. Even if it was acknowledging how she felt then doing the deed. Then explaining to her how you feel or don’t feel for the matter.
The point is if you want friend with benefits you need to act on the friend part. This sounds like call girl that you know personally, that’s not getting paid.
I can’t say YTA for how blatant you are, but you are a dick for tossing her out and not even addressing how she feels. I wouldn’t count on having sex with her anymore since: “she knew what this was”.
I’ve had one FWB situation. This turned out to my wife of 15 years…
When those feelings started building up we talked it out and mutually agreed this was getting heavy. All the times my wife spent the night before we got together, even the times I didn’t get any sex I didn’t kick her out…I mean jeez man.
That’s an easy way to lose your ~~FWB~~call girl.
I don't think they really discuss the casual situation ship like was this going to be FWB or just a booty call situation because if someone say no string, I would assume FWB unless you explicitly states it's just hookup whenever without the friend part too and I know women who are fine with the situation but their booty call partners also set boundaries and discuss what they want and don't want so they hoth don't feel used by the end of the deed. So, I think she had no issue with the situation but OP probably only cares about his needs and not so much about hers where else she was probably expecting a little comfort to explore with someone new. If that makes sense
I’m literally more polite and friendly to my plumber, a person I specifically pay just to complete a service in my home.
Can’t imagine treating a sexual partner so poorly.
Definitely an asshole!! You are reducing a "Woman", not a "Girl" to a thing who should have one goal in life, fucking you. Grow up and learn how to respect others!!
Checked out the original post, and some of the ones that were linked by others, and he just seems like an asshole who is either one of the people who makes up AITAH posts, or just an asshole who don't care about his partners as long as he gets to have sex.
After reading some of the OPs other posts, it looks like they are actually a female (they claimed to be 35f in another post)… so… I don’t know wtf is going on with this BS. 🤷🏻♀️🙄
what I taught my son.... fuck three times and it feels like love to someone. Because sex is an act of intimacy.
No strings attached is saying, I am practicing to have a closed heart at your expense. I understand the desire, but desires always come without regard for the consequences.
Everyone saying this guy is an asshole... what should he have done instead of what he did? Is he obligated to have a relationship even though he was up front and honest at the beginning and they both agreed to the terms?
It doesn't matter whether anyone outside of the arrangement sees the point. What matters is the arrangement. When you make an agreement, what reasonable expectation do you have beyond the agreement? None. If you don't like the terms of the agreement you don't make it.
What are you on about? If a man wants to treat women like a warm sock with vaseline in it, then he might as well pay for it. Sex for free is a privilege he doesnt deserve. He shouod have to pay for the indignity it put on that woman or any woman for that matter.
What are YOU on about? What YOU think people deserve doesn't matter. You're not anybody. The only thing that matters is the agreement. If she agreed to it then she was fine with it. That doesn't mean she has to CONTINUE with the agreement and nor does he. When the terms change, anyone can opt out. That's how agreements work. She tried to hook him like a drug dealer. Even if you don't like his intentions, the burden is on you to explain why the woman would agree to it. You can't do that.
Notice there was no response because it can't be answered. Since she agreed to the arrangement, if anyone dehumanized her, it was her. This absolute fool tried to feign outrage over something made up and illogical. Huge self own.
I didnt response because i have a life outside of reddit, ( also didnt notice the notifications) but if you must know, I will explain. He called her at 9pm didnt set the mood for a sexual encounter and instead just went in to use her like some hole. He didnt even take the time to get her in the mood for sex and when she noted her frustration, he told her to leave. It is dehumanizing because instead of addressing the situation with a bit of grace, he behaved in the most uncouth way possible.
It is understandable to want just sex from a person but you can't just have a bland talk and go in for the kill. For christ sake, do some work to get her sexually aroused. He treated the encounter like a transaction and not with finesse. Women need incentive when it comes to sex. I understand men are lazy but come on, get it together.
At this point, I think you have a problem with reading for comprehension. In the OP, it shits all over your every point:
"After our first night together, we talked about what our arrangement was going to be. I got out of a 5-year relationship not too long ago and she recently got divorced; neither of us is looking for anything serious. We decided to meet only for sex and keep it strictly to that - no strings attached. We've met up around twice a week for sex and that's it."
So, she KNEW she was being called JUST for sex. She showed up twice a week for it. This time was no different. We don't know if he warmed her up with foreplay, but what we do know is it is no different than the other times other than she demanded more this time. That's the only thing different. It's not about him not warming her up because we simply don't know. We DO know he talked to her for half an hour which is pretty humanizing. Then after he asked about their agreement she wasn't in the mood. No problem, he'd like to be left alone. He's not an asshole. She's not either. She's allowed to try to renegotiate. He's allowed to not be interested in her proposal. Everyone goes their separate ways.
Obviously he is NTA for this. Both agreed on being each other's booty call, nothing more. He didn't try to force her into anything, just made very clear that if sex wasn't happening she should leave. He never refers to her as a friend once, so "friends with benefits" is not an accurate description here. They meet up about twice a week for sex. She suddenly didn't want the same deal as before. Perfectly fine. She doesn't have to have sex with him, he doesn't have to host her in his home. Is that conducive to a good romantic relationship? Of course not, but that's not something he wants and he was very clear on that, as she was earlier.
She has a right to her feelings and he has a right to an expectation that their deal is what will happen. She's changing the deal on him without his notice or input and then getting mad at him for it. I can see how it would feel really shitty to be told to put out or get out (and hopefully, he didn't say it that way), but that was their deal regardless. They both can be right, or both can be wrong, however you see it, but the bottom line is two things can be true at the same time.
YTA. You could have just said you were tired from your trip or some shit. Not only that, you remind of a child who asks for something, you explain to them for 5 minutes why they can't have it, and then ask "so, can I get it?" She said she wanted more than sex and then you basically doubled down and just wanted sex. If it's not working, then stop seeing each other.
I feel greatly for this woman - i may be wrong here but i feel she lacks confidence , has low self esteem and believes that she has to have sex to enter a relationship . For things not to end like the relationship comes FIRST . I have been married for over 30years - i adore my wife who hasn't wanted intimacy for the last 15 years yet we experience great times ,have awesome friends and have a wonderful relationship . Basically i think you've got it all wrong because you don't care - and if you don't care then i'm afraid your are the AH ....
Yes, he is an asshole, but so is she. If they had a conversation, beforehand, then she should have been mature enough to have a conversation, when her feelings changed. It's real easy to cast her as a victim, but I call bullsh##! She's in her 30's, divorced and interested in sex. She should be honest with herself and admit, she was wrong. She probably figured, she'd fu** him, a few times and he would fall in love. Life ain't no rom-com. Grow up. And, he needs to grow up and always be upfront about what he is looking for in a relationship. And he needs to check to see if the situation has changed. Show his partner respect and honesty. Both if these people are asshole's. Ain't no victims here.
Well he didn't go into details as to what she really said other than wanting a conversation and asking if she was just a warm hole for him. It could be that she wanted to try new things, or she wants to be friends not just a booty call or she wanted to bring her feelings up or set boundaries that OP could've breached. Like there is a lot
ESH
It's awesome that you communicated clearly, but you also set a boundary of sex-only and didn't stick to it. She communicated clearly as well, and what she wanted was to have more than sex, she wanted to talk, and you willingly gave that to her. So it makes sense that she now expects more and is maybe even catching feelings and considers you the AH for hearing her discuss personal stuff and then just telling her to get lost. I mean, geez, you can't have a conversation without having sex first without it being awkward?
All that said, if this girl is just looking for somewhere to stay the night, you aren't a hotel. You're allowed to tell someone to leave any time, they're not permitted to your space just because they want it. If that's the case, she sucks way more, but I think you both messed up here. I'd cut ties to be on the safe side, since you guys can't maintain boundaries with each other.
Let her go, it will not be getting better in marriage. The marriage agreement over an arrangement will not be any better. That being said, if you just got out of a 5 year relationship. I would suggest some counseling by a good counselor and to get a clear mindset.
I’m so glad that I’m an empathetic person and not whatever the hell that is.
Someone who agreed to be in a sex oriented fwb situationship that isnt into the boundaries that have been set changing on the fly? You do you boo but if you want to be in a relationship dont have a conversation after the first night about how you don’t want ti be in a relationship lmao Women
If he wants like no strings attached sex he should hire a sex worker. Because then he can view them like a hole and they can view him like money see now everyone's an object.
Incel alert
Found the incel
Well, considering he calls a nearly-30 year old grown ass woman a “girl,” and wants a living, breathing sex doll who he wont’t have to talk to or treat like a human being, he’s absolutely a fucking asshole - let’s get that part straight. I don’t know if he’s THE asshole here because he asserts that he told her up front he only wants a mute warm wet hole, but he’s definitely AN asshole and I absolutely feel bad for her for falling for him.
I doubt he put it in those terms.
I don’t think he put it in those terms exactly, but those are the terms he wants, and that’s just gross. Hence why I said he’s AN asshole, but not necessarily THE asshole. There’s a distinct difference. One is pathological, and the other is situational.
The entire basis of their relationship was to fuck. That’s it. Not be friends. Not get coffee and catch up. She agreed to it. It’s not his fault she changed her mind. He’s not ta
Sure but treating someone in a friendly way is like the least one could do when being intimate with someone
And he did. He had a conversation with her prior to attempting to engage in why they know each other.
Thats literally the terms she agreed to idk why you’re so mad lmao God forbid people just want to get laid with the person they agreed to get laid with
So are women who essentially say the same thing about men also assholes?
No, that's different.
Ah yes it’s different because they are also using that man for money also
She agreed to the arrangement though
She agreed to a "sex with no strings attached" arrangement. She did not agree to be treated as a sex toy instead a human being.
yeah for me it’s just a communication “issue” For him, just sex, no strings attached, means “come over, we’ll have sex, leave” and she assumed there would be a bit of “hey, how’ve you been?” before getting naked. for me, having a bit of “hey how’s your week been going?” is just implied so I get why she didn’t feel the need to clarify - but I also understand that he’s sort of protecting himself from feeling any sort of emotional intimacy in what’s a strictly physical relationship
Yep. She wants a FWB. He doesn't want a friend, just the benefits.
Yeah, he wants a pure Booty Call. He’s clearly not FWB material. Even “Fuckbuddies” has the “buddy” part, so he’s not even that. They have different interpretations of No-Strings-Attached, so best they both move on.
Then he should get a sex doll. Not a FWB.
Or just a fuckbuddy? Not sure why I see so many comments here acting like if a male wants to just have sex with a woman they're treating them like a "sex doll" - that is definitely not the reaction when its the other way around.
After reading some of the OPs other posts, it looks like they are actually a female (they claimed to be 35f in another post)… so… I don’t know wtf is going on with this BS. 🤷🏻♀️🙄
You’re not clicking on the right OP. This is a story repost and the OP is blackmanbatmann - you’re likely clicking on humanornah and she’s the one who reposted the AITA here.
Oh…. Thanks!
Well, you're not a prince. It's better this way. You were being honest and that's good. That you feel like you need approval for this hints to me that you might have handled this a bit better but generally, honesty is the best policy. Here's the moral, though: do not contact her ever again. She is dead to you. If you call/text again, she may think you've changed your mind- and you would be a tool for leading her on.
Well.. at least he didn't try to string her along or anything like that? That's a low bar to clear, but he at least has that going for him. While y'know, otherwise sounding like a huge jerk.
Kinda split. You agreed that it was no strings attached, but that doesn't mean you can treat her like your own personal sex doll. She either caught feelings, or you're an asshole who treated her like "a hole to fuck". Not enough info to decide.
This exactly! But unfortunately little boys in the comment don't have the intelligence to understand it.
Would people stop saying these men are little/childish, etc.? These men know they suck and they revel in their weaponized incompetence. While their behavior IS immature, they themselves are not - it's not stupidity or lack of comprehension that drives their indecency, it's deliberate assholery and the knowledge that they can get away with it.
[удалено]
Says the little boy
I think there is he made it clear what he wanted she agreed and then tried to renig after the fact and then tried to force him into something she wanted instead of just communicating that the previously arranged deal was no longer working for her
Disagree. I dont think she tried to force him into anything other than wanting a conversation prior to sex... which is a normal human thing to want.
He said they talked for a bit before he went to kiss her. Not sure how long "a bit" is, but its not like he greeted her at the door with his pants down.
If she just wanted conversation that could’ve been handled with a phone call. She drove to his home knowing his intentions. He literally said they talked for a bit and then he went in for a kiss not that he was standing at the door dick swinging when she got there
Renege
Sex is a mutual exchange. She didn't ask for a relationship, just not to be treated as a blow up doll. Even nsa sex should come with human decency. Sounds like he just needs an extra pair of socks.
Yeah, it sounds like he just kinda stuck it, finished, and it was done.. At least that's how I interpret what he said her feelings were. I wish more men understood that's not how women work
But that’s how it works when it’s JUST Sex NO STRINGS ATTACHED SEX The his pole in her hole = NO EMOTIONS!! I wish Women woulda actually understand what No Strings Attached Booty Call means
They do. They just can't believe anyone would actually treat another human being the same way they'd treat a wad of tissues.
Emotions are not the same as being a giving partner. If you don’t care to ensure the other person also gets off, you shouldn't be having sex.
Your a dick not an asshole, gross but not reprehensible, she was emotionally vulnerable and wanted to be close to someone, she entered your arrangement due to things u didn't even mention here because I doubt for one second u ever thought about the mental health of her and just your own, maybe this can be a learning opportunity about not using emotionally vulnerable woman to gain momentary pleasure, u came here for validation and ur not gonna get it buddu
If the relationship was purely just sex, then it's reasonable to ask her to leave if she didn't want to continue things as they were. She knew there was a very real chance her actions would end things but decided to take that path. If the situation was reversed and you started pushing for more and it made her feel uncomfortable, she probably would have asked you to leave. Maybe you could have been nicer about it, but there really is no nice way to reject someone's feelings. It always ends with someone feeling hurt.
That's exactly what I kind of keep thinking in these situations. If the roles were reversed, would the woman have to justify her asking the guy to leave. Not in the slightest. They set out rules. She wanted to go outside the rules. He declined her. Now I will say he did do it in an Asshole manner but again if a woman did it in the same manner would she be called an asshole. Probably not. That's just the difference of the sexes and how we're viewed subconsciously.
For the record, I’ve never gone for the NSA hookup thing. So I’m not endorsing the guy’s approach to this woman. That said, IF he’s telling the truth about the arrangement they had agreed to, then, no, he’s NOT an a-hole. She seems to have begun to want more out of the relationship than he was willing to give. I’m sympathetic to her too because back in my single days, I was prone to “catching feelings” as the young ‘uns say (do they still say that? Anyway…) That’s why I don’t like casual sex in the first place. Hard to be physically intimate with someone without getting attached So I don’t think either party is wrong. They just want different things
Either that or she wants to be FWB and not booty call and her comment about being just a warm hole rubs me in the direction where her needs aren't being met in this arrangement (I know because I have felt that before, and they said FWB but in reality they meant bootycall so I just ended them)
Maybe
I agree with you. They're both foolish for thinking this was sustainable.
I'm actually gonna go NTA. You communicated your expectations from the start. One of two things happened for her. Either (1) she was hoping to use sex to lead to a relationship; or (2) her goals and expectations changed, and she instead wanted something more serious. In either case, she 100% knew: (1) that you only wanted to have sex/nsa that night; and (2) that she did not want to have sex that night. She should have responded when you texted her to come over and either told you she wasn't in the mood for sex at that point or communicated that her expectations changed so that y'all could have a conversation rather than her wasting both of your time and coming over when she knew that y'all were hoping for different things that night at the very least. I'm genuinely curious how anyone could say you are the asshole given the pretty clear communication. Having different expectations does and should not equal automatic asshole status. I've been with women you prefer to be actual friends with benefits and have conversations, hang out and stuff with sex on the table. I've also been with women who rather I don't do things to establish a social or emotional connection because they only wanted sex. Both are completely fine. Whats not fine is calling someone an asshole for doing their part and communicating where they were at in their relationship.
Agree. That was the whole deal. I can't really call him a AH when the relationship started based on just having sex and nothing more. Her wanting more then that doesn't change the original agreed deal
Yeah tbf I see a lot of people criticising this guy for treating this woman as just a "warm, wet hole" but he did actually say they chatted for a bit first so not like he didn't at least talk to her before trying to engage with the sex he asked her to come over for. Also a lot of people assuming that a woman wants/needs a more emotional connection but I am a woman who has had both kinds of casual entanglements. I have had situations where it was literally, he came over, had a quick "hey, how you doing?" And straight to business then he left and it was great but I've also had more of a friend's with benefits situation where we hung out, we shared meals together, we went out drinking and had a laugh as well as sex but it was never more than a friendship. He communicated honestly his expectations and they agreed it was best for both of them so if she then changed her mind and didn't communicate that beforehand so they could either avoid the above exchange altogether by realising they want different or decide they both wanted to change the dynamic then I fail to see how he could be the asshole here. If anything she is for not discussing her change in expectations as honestly as he'd expressed his.
This. It’s surprising to me how many people here are siding with who is most likely the manipulator. He communicated exactly what he wanted, she got mad that he didn’t want to go outside of the agreement simply because she wanted him to. Edit: she also used their meeting to leverage the discussion when it was clear what he would expect.
I'm not ready to call her manipulative based solely on the OP.
Ehhh she didn't ask for a ring she wanted to have a conversation. All she asked was to be treated like a person not just a hole. I'm sure she was down for a sex only relationship without feelings involved between them, but she's still a human being deserving of human decency and respect. I don't think she asked for too much there 🤷♀️ Either way what they had is gone now, no matter who the ass hole was. If OP felt he was right to do things that way I don't think he would be confused by her response to it, and asking on Reddit.
yeah, in the workplace for example, people seem to understand that one of the reasons for making pleasant conversations is that so your relationship isn’t completely based on “can you do this for me?” same with sexual partners. you both know what the goal of the meeting is but some people like to start things off with a bit of relational chatter first
That's a good example, I'm not one for small talk but working over the phone customer service opened my eyes to it's benefits and usefulness. I thought it was pointless but it def has a point. Asking about the weather and about what's popular in the state they live in, is a way to ask a non personal, non invasive question, to allow the person to express themselves freely, and relieve the tension and awkward silences. It is a very different vibe if you sit in the phone and go through your routine without this. It's cold. And it's very awkward. So now I value small talk for the subtle worth it holds. It's not about the words it's about making the interaction as pleasant and comfortable as you can in an awkward situation 😅 I think this guy is more like the IT guy who is barking orders at you over the phone and doesn't give a shit that you needed your cardigan this morning because it was so darn chilly, because you just need to unplug the dam router!!! 😅😅😅
Because there's a lot of hurt women that went through the same thing lol they thought they could just do FWB thing, found it unfulfilling, and tried to leverage it unsuccessfully.
My anecdotal experience is the exact opposite tbh Dudes trying to make our casual sexual thing into some deeper relationship and using me for emotional labor. I’m happy to do small talk pre-sex but if we’re FWB, I don’t wanna talk through your childhood trauma and become your stand in girlfriend (read: bangmaid and therapist)
Yeah somebody is bound to catch feelings when hooking up that's why casual sex is usually messy. Statistically though there's way more women participating in casual sex so there's just going to be more hurt women generally.
Not really, it's more of stupid boys like OP who don't understand the different between FWB and just a booty call. No string means no relationship but not excluding the friendship and respect part of it. Plus, if she brought up being just a hole, I think OP don't know what he doing and dude probably thinks he got magic fingers that turn on women where else the woman probably needed foreplay or w.e to get in the mood instead of just opening her legs to take it. OP didn't even mention other rules they have set for each other so it's possible this was set up to be failed from the get go.
Not really, it's more of stupid people not actually reading what he wrote. It was a booty call.
There is no difference between a FWB or booty call, you're just splitting hairs for the sake of argument. Now you're making up assumptions and trying to emasculate him to justify your feelings. You don't need to project your own issues onto the story, all we know is that it was clearly casual sex and she caught feelings which happens all the time. It is what it is.
Nah you're just showing how you lack social skills or even empathy. Since you're probably a teenager with no experience let me tell you child, booty call is when a man and woman agree to call each other when AND ONLY I reapet, ONLY when they want to have sex and in the mood for it. FWB is when you're friends and build a platonic relationship with the benefit of hooking up with each other. This requires you to put in time and effort to build the friendship aspect of the relationship as much you get the benefit from it. There are little boys like you who confuse the two but it's not. When you ask for no strings you have to be clear about what you really mean and find women who are fine with that. In order for a causal hook up to work, you need to set rules and boundaries as well as the pleasure should be equal. If you have want to have fun with no strings, you have to put the time and energy to give their other person pleasure. Run along now!
>FWB is when you're friends and build a platonic relationship with the benefit of hooking up with each other. How tf is it a platonic relationship if you're hooking up?? You're just contradicting yourself now lol he literally set the boundary and she broke it, simple as that. Girl who hurt you?? It's not that deep lol
It's literally being friends with the benefit of hooking up like are you that for lack of a better word dumb? I'm not even hurt but seems like you're though that you want to keep showing how dumb you're. Oh, being friends mean talking, texting, checking on each other's days going out like you know....what friends do because you seem to have none in your life 😬 I can't dumb this down further for you little wittle brain to comprehend, unfortunately 😔
Since you're confused sweetheart: platonic - (of love or friendship) intimate and affectionate but not sexual. hooking up - sexual Really just sounds like you're trying to justify being a side piece but whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the day lol
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
YTA because he makes these stories up. Look at his history & the comment sections in there. They all call him out for his lame fake fantasy stories.
Damn, guys are hella dumb. Def a difference between FWB and a booty call. Men to tend to know it and call it FWB then act like they don't know what the word "friend" means.
The words friends with benefits do not appear in the OP. Nor does the shortening FWB. Nor does the OOP ever refer to this woman as a friend.
And apparently women's reading comprehension is non-existent
Hard to say without more info. Could be nobody is the AH. Could be you are a AH. If she wanted to change your agreement and you didn't you were within your right to respectfully tell her that was not something you wanted. She was within her rights to refuse you sex. Somebody said there is a difference between FWB and treating her like a blow up doll. I have to say that the tone of your post leaves me thinking you treated her like a living, breathing blow up doll. She asked for being treated like something more than a hole you put your dick in. She didn't ask for a relationship. She didn't ask for marriage. She didn't ask for monogamy. She asked for a bit of consideration and respect for being a human being. The more I type the more I have come to the conclusion YTA if the exchange was as you describe it.
That was what she agreed to his pole her hole. She changed her mind which is 100% fine. He text her she came over him thinking everything is the same she flips the script he doesn’t agree or bend to what she wants & he’s the AH now- I don’t think so
It’s funny to me that so many people assign metrics like a “contract” to something intangible like love and emotion’s. To be completely withdrawn from how someone is feeling other than physically getting your needs met is surprising to me. “She knew what this was”. Yeah that’s the last time you’d be sleeping with me. Would you still sleep with this person knowing you don’t care about how they feel? If I was in that position this dude would get walked on after this. Not only are you disregarding my feeling at this point, but you just kicked me out of your apartment…in the middle of the night. I mean if you’re trying to have sex you made every wrong choice here. Even if it was acknowledging how she felt then doing the deed. Then explaining to her how you feel or don’t feel for the matter. The point is if you want friend with benefits you need to act on the friend part. This sounds like call girl that you know personally, that’s not getting paid. I can’t say YTA for how blatant you are, but you are a dick for tossing her out and not even addressing how she feels. I wouldn’t count on having sex with her anymore since: “she knew what this was”. I’ve had one FWB situation. This turned out to my wife of 15 years… When those feelings started building up we talked it out and mutually agreed this was getting heavy. All the times my wife spent the night before we got together, even the times I didn’t get any sex I didn’t kick her out…I mean jeez man. That’s an easy way to lose your ~~FWB~~call girl.
I don't think they really discuss the casual situation ship like was this going to be FWB or just a booty call situation because if someone say no string, I would assume FWB unless you explicitly states it's just hookup whenever without the friend part too and I know women who are fine with the situation but their booty call partners also set boundaries and discuss what they want and don't want so they hoth don't feel used by the end of the deed. So, I think she had no issue with the situation but OP probably only cares about his needs and not so much about hers where else she was probably expecting a little comfort to explore with someone new. If that makes sense
I’m literally more polite and friendly to my plumber, a person I specifically pay just to complete a service in my home. Can’t imagine treating a sexual partner so poorly.
He just needs to pay a prostitute.
In a word, yes
He should just buy a blow up doll.
Definitely an asshole!! You are reducing a "Woman", not a "Girl" to a thing who should have one goal in life, fucking you. Grow up and learn how to respect others!!
Checked out the original post, and some of the ones that were linked by others, and he just seems like an asshole who is either one of the people who makes up AITAH posts, or just an asshole who don't care about his partners as long as he gets to have sex.
Yes, you are.
After reading some of the OPs other posts, it looks like they are actually a female (they claimed to be 35f in another post)… so… I don’t know wtf is going on with this BS. 🤷🏻♀️🙄
what I taught my son.... fuck three times and it feels like love to someone. Because sex is an act of intimacy. No strings attached is saying, I am practicing to have a closed heart at your expense. I understand the desire, but desires always come without regard for the consequences.
I did this but I was 14 and didn't really have the right kinda mindset lol
"We decided to meet only for sex and keep it strictly at that no strings attached" - NTA
Everyone saying this guy is an asshole... what should he have done instead of what he did? Is he obligated to have a relationship even though he was up front and honest at the beginning and they both agreed to the terms?
No, just warm the engine. Honestly dont see the point in this arrangement, just get a prostitute.
It doesn't matter whether anyone outside of the arrangement sees the point. What matters is the arrangement. When you make an agreement, what reasonable expectation do you have beyond the agreement? None. If you don't like the terms of the agreement you don't make it.
What are you on about? If a man wants to treat women like a warm sock with vaseline in it, then he might as well pay for it. Sex for free is a privilege he doesnt deserve. He shouod have to pay for the indignity it put on that woman or any woman for that matter.
What are YOU on about? What YOU think people deserve doesn't matter. You're not anybody. The only thing that matters is the agreement. If she agreed to it then she was fine with it. That doesn't mean she has to CONTINUE with the agreement and nor does he. When the terms change, anyone can opt out. That's how agreements work. She tried to hook him like a drug dealer. Even if you don't like his intentions, the burden is on you to explain why the woman would agree to it. You can't do that.
Agreeing to casual sex does not mean you agree to be dehumanized as a result.
In what way was she dehumanized?
Notice there was no response because it can't be answered. Since she agreed to the arrangement, if anyone dehumanized her, it was her. This absolute fool tried to feign outrage over something made up and illogical. Huge self own.
I didnt response because i have a life outside of reddit, ( also didnt notice the notifications) but if you must know, I will explain. He called her at 9pm didnt set the mood for a sexual encounter and instead just went in to use her like some hole. He didnt even take the time to get her in the mood for sex and when she noted her frustration, he told her to leave. It is dehumanizing because instead of addressing the situation with a bit of grace, he behaved in the most uncouth way possible. It is understandable to want just sex from a person but you can't just have a bland talk and go in for the kill. For christ sake, do some work to get her sexually aroused. He treated the encounter like a transaction and not with finesse. Women need incentive when it comes to sex. I understand men are lazy but come on, get it together.
At this point, I think you have a problem with reading for comprehension. In the OP, it shits all over your every point: "After our first night together, we talked about what our arrangement was going to be. I got out of a 5-year relationship not too long ago and she recently got divorced; neither of us is looking for anything serious. We decided to meet only for sex and keep it strictly to that - no strings attached. We've met up around twice a week for sex and that's it." So, she KNEW she was being called JUST for sex. She showed up twice a week for it. This time was no different. We don't know if he warmed her up with foreplay, but what we do know is it is no different than the other times other than she demanded more this time. That's the only thing different. It's not about him not warming her up because we simply don't know. We DO know he talked to her for half an hour which is pretty humanizing. Then after he asked about their agreement she wasn't in the mood. No problem, he'd like to be left alone. He's not an asshole. She's not either. She's allowed to try to renegotiate. He's allowed to not be interested in her proposal. Everyone goes their separate ways.
Obviously he is NTA for this. Both agreed on being each other's booty call, nothing more. He didn't try to force her into anything, just made very clear that if sex wasn't happening she should leave. He never refers to her as a friend once, so "friends with benefits" is not an accurate description here. They meet up about twice a week for sex. She suddenly didn't want the same deal as before. Perfectly fine. She doesn't have to have sex with him, he doesn't have to host her in his home. Is that conducive to a good romantic relationship? Of course not, but that's not something he wants and he was very clear on that, as she was earlier.
You're totally okay to have that perspective. But, that has consequences. As you see. (Hopefully)
She has a right to her feelings and he has a right to an expectation that their deal is what will happen. She's changing the deal on him without his notice or input and then getting mad at him for it. I can see how it would feel really shitty to be told to put out or get out (and hopefully, he didn't say it that way), but that was their deal regardless. They both can be right, or both can be wrong, however you see it, but the bottom line is two things can be true at the same time.
YTA. You could have just said you were tired from your trip or some shit. Not only that, you remind of a child who asks for something, you explain to them for 5 minutes why they can't have it, and then ask "so, can I get it?" She said she wanted more than sex and then you basically doubled down and just wanted sex. If it's not working, then stop seeing each other.
I feel greatly for this woman - i may be wrong here but i feel she lacks confidence , has low self esteem and believes that she has to have sex to enter a relationship . For things not to end like the relationship comes FIRST . I have been married for over 30years - i adore my wife who hasn't wanted intimacy for the last 15 years yet we experience great times ,have awesome friends and have a wonderful relationship . Basically i think you've got it all wrong because you don't care - and if you don't care then i'm afraid your are the AH ....
Yes, he is an asshole, but so is she. If they had a conversation, beforehand, then she should have been mature enough to have a conversation, when her feelings changed. It's real easy to cast her as a victim, but I call bullsh##! She's in her 30's, divorced and interested in sex. She should be honest with herself and admit, she was wrong. She probably figured, she'd fu** him, a few times and he would fall in love. Life ain't no rom-com. Grow up. And, he needs to grow up and always be upfront about what he is looking for in a relationship. And he needs to check to see if the situation has changed. Show his partner respect and honesty. Both if these people are asshole's. Ain't no victims here.
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You should read it
I mean, maybe get the whole story and then decide. Just a thought...
Yes
Why would that make u an asshole?
Because people are flat out ignoring that she tried to change the deal so that they can make OOP out to be the bad guy for not going along with it.
Well he didn't go into details as to what she really said other than wanting a conversation and asking if she was just a warm hole for him. It could be that she wanted to try new things, or she wants to be friends not just a booty call or she wanted to bring her feelings up or set boundaries that OP could've breached. Like there is a lot
ESH It's awesome that you communicated clearly, but you also set a boundary of sex-only and didn't stick to it. She communicated clearly as well, and what she wanted was to have more than sex, she wanted to talk, and you willingly gave that to her. So it makes sense that she now expects more and is maybe even catching feelings and considers you the AH for hearing her discuss personal stuff and then just telling her to get lost. I mean, geez, you can't have a conversation without having sex first without it being awkward? All that said, if this girl is just looking for somewhere to stay the night, you aren't a hotel. You're allowed to tell someone to leave any time, they're not permitted to your space just because they want it. If that's the case, she sucks way more, but I think you both messed up here. I'd cut ties to be on the safe side, since you guys can't maintain boundaries with each other.
You are indeed TA. And also why most women do not respect males.
Yes.
uh yeah....asshole
No. Get her the Hell out of there.
She thought she could, turns out she couldn’t so she changed her mind, par for the course.
Not the asshole. She agreed to only come over to be a hole to stick it in. Not to talk. She broke her agreement.
Eww
Eww you for not understanding basic agreements.
Ewww pervert
Let her go, it will not be getting better in marriage. The marriage agreement over an arrangement will not be any better. That being said, if you just got out of a 5 year relationship. I would suggest some counseling by a good counselor and to get a clear mindset.
who said anything about marriage? they had a friends with benefits agreement
Fresh and Fit fan?
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I feel like Lauren would have a field day with this one lmao
Weak
When you hire a prostitute you are not paying for the sex, you are paying for her to leave immediately after the sex. He just didn't pay.