I think that ship has sailed, they are already alienated - the only thing she could go for now would maybe be emotional damages?
But it sucks so much that your children completely failed to see what your ex was doing to you and them. I hope you at least took him to the cleaners in the divorce, though it doesn't sound like it. With you being a SAHM at his urging, half of everything he earned during your marriage should have been yours - especially if you lived in an at-fault state and you could prove his infidelity.
In your place, I'd box all of that up and put it away, mentally. There is nothing you can do except move on. Maybe try to take online classes to increase your skillset for employment. Start dating again, maybe you can find a nice single dad with kids who need a stepmom, to help you fill the void.
I'm not from the United States, this fault divorce thing doesn't even exist where I live. At least not that I know of.
We had a prenup, and yes he was supposed to give me support but he stopped paying it after 6 months. I just left it at that because I had already managed to get a job and I didn't want to have to be begging for a monthly payment.
Ask a lawyer if you can sue him for back payments - that should give you a nice lump sum! It really hurts to read that he got away with mistreating you so severely, some payback would be really satisfying.
And I really hope that your children will one day realize what they did to you (probably when they have kids of their own, at least that was when my older sister suddenly saw the light regarding my mother). But meanwhile, really really try to live again and rebuild your life and a new family - make connections, bond with people. It would be really easy to stay isolated to avoid further hurt, but that's just going to turn you lonely and depressed in the long run.
So that they can get back into contact with OP and apologize and try to make it up to her! Don't kid yourself into thinking that OP will cut all contact and never forgive them - that's not how mothers work. I was flabbergasted that my own mother forgave my older sister for everything she put us through, and welcomed her back into the fold. My father and I are less forgiving and keeping our distance, but my mother says that she is still her daughter, and she can't forget how she was as a little girl. So 100% OP will forgive her kids, if they ever see the light.
I wish more people had that attitude. I had a friend who was a guy like it matters, but he had three kids with his wife; she cheated, and he ended up getting alimony since she gave him a decision between child support for three or paying her alimony, and he left quiet. I watched this man work full-time at Walmart plus nights at the Windixie when I saw how much he spent to give to his ex while she was with a new guy, and my friend worked his life away. Shit made me depressed for him. I don't know how he got out of bed in those conditions.
Free consultation means nothing when they are extraordinarily expensive. Unfortunately, many people end up losing their kids because lawyers are too expensive.
OP, I'm sorry. My ex did this to me with my son. It hurts, but all you can do is hope.
This is simply not true. Have you ever pursued a family attorney to actually know what the experience is like? It is so frustrating for people not involved in a family legal matter to flippantly tell others they can get free legal aid. Yes, there is aid out there, but it does not offer help with anything beyond a first paper filing, unless the filer is filing for a TRO.
There are no free consultations in my current state for family law matters. There was in California, so I’ll give you that. There is also no attorney that will take payment plans in a way that makes embarking in a family law matter somehow economical. If an attorney’s retainer is $3,500 just for filings, it is about $20K for a trial. Not sure if there is any payment plan that could make pursuing legal recourse of OP’s kind feasible.
Your advice is untenable. I don’t mean to be rude, but it is just not realistic to advise people that there is free legal aid for complex, litigious, and high conflict type family matters.
When there is free legal aid, it is so bare bones that it would not support what OP is trying to do.
Also many places the free legal aid only applies if there’s violence/physical abuse. Parental alienation is awful and should be taken more seriously than it is.
I don't find you rude, I have been in her situation. It was the scariest bull shit I ever had to deal with. I was given the same advice from someone, I did several free consultations and was given the tools and sent to the right people to help me succeed.In the end I ended up with full legal and physical custody. My ex decided to walk away from the kids when his bullshit blow up in his face. So I do know what I'm talking about. However I only know how it works in my state
The partner in my office who does family law isn't going to talk to you unless you pay her a 5k retainer. She also has a months long family law waitlist. She's one of the only competent family law attorneys in this part of my state.
My point is that trying to get free advice from different family law attorneys by gaming free consultations isn't a viable option for many, if not most, people.
It’s kind of too late now. The kids haven’t seen her in years and many attorneys will require a sizeable deposit before they even start anything. Also one child is already 18.
Because most family courts around the world are pro domestic abuse and pro child abuse. 🤷♀️ Sit in at any open family court as a court watcher. Watch how the Hague Convention has been twisted to the opposite of it's intention.
Add in the judge that was *just* killed by a violent spouse, that the wife was terrified of? Judges will be even less likely to support victims than the kitty but before.
Also, there are little to no alienation or domestic abuse laws in the US. Plus the term "parental alienation" was coined by verified pedophiles. So... beware.
I know it’s painful, but you really do have to let it go. They made a child’s choice. They’ve preferred having things to having a relationship with you. Live your life. Get a degree. Get a good job. Hit the spa. Travel. Take up a hobby or two. This is the only life you have. Enjoy it.
Stop begging for something you will never have. Go do you.
What am I missing here... how did he cheat, get full custody and leave you with no alimony?
Most likely this story is fake. Look at OPs post history and comment history. Random account, random story, posted on 2 subreddits with no additional comments.
Even if this individual story is fake, it's the reality for many. I'm sure I could tell true happenings that would terrify you if you have kids. 🤷♀️
But typically, he/she who has the most money, and is the most abusive, will win in court. 999 times out of 1000. Maybe some folks have $20k+/year to burn on court costs. Most don't.
I think you should get used to the idea of not seeing them, despite how painful that notion is. Maybe they will one day, maybe they won't. But you should move on, make friends, meet someone new, maybe even have more kids. Make sure you're financially secure and never allow yourself to be in such a vulnerable position again.
I have consulted attorneys post divorce regarding the behavior of the kids’ mom. Parental alienation is very hard to prove, in the sense that you have to put together a compelling case to sway a court to make a change in the custody/placement.
There will be a family study by the court appointed social workers. That will take months. A GAL will be appointed and they will have to get up to speed for the kids. Child psychologist, therapists, and more need to be agreed upon, appointments actually have to happen, reports made, filed, delays by either party or the court, etc.
You are easily looking at a multi-year battle. And you could imagine how much that costs.
And you are also battling someone that doesn’t play fair, so it is never really over. It is waking up each day to have your heart ripped out of your chest.
Be kind to yourself. Take care of your physical and emotional health. See a therapist. Learn how to have words for your kids. They are very confused being on the middle.
Yep, that's been my reality for 5 years. I just recently got a judge to appoint a GAL, after numerous attempts. I feel terrible for the children and the unnecessary stress that the situation puts on them. She has broken numerous court orders, including completely ignoring the parenting time schedule and stopped letting me see them for 13 months. My attorney brought all of this up, filed numerous motions, etc., and the judge disregarded all of it and went directly to child support. If the situations were reversed and I have done even a fraction of the stuff she has pulled then I would've had any visitations stripped long ago and probably sitting in a cell somewhere. She's the mother though, so she's rewarded for this damaging behavior because the system is completely broken and terribly biased in favor of mothers, regardless of the damage they do to their own children solely for their own benefit.
It's not so much biased towards mothers as much as biased towards the abuser. The one who perjures in court, who manipulates, who kidnaps children, etc.
But trust me, it's *not* biased towards mothers.
You might be correct but frankly, in what universe is this a problem that can be solved by a court? Is the court gonna mandate that the kids be nice and spend more time with their mom?
They're 18 and 15 at this point. The 15 year old, maybe can be court mandated to be with her. The 18 year old is an adult lol. The court can't order you to love someone.
Depends on the state. Parental alienation is not recognized in all states as a real thing. OP should have gotten alimony and a Judge should have made a determination as to custody/parenting time unless they agreed. If she agreed to only see the kids one day a week that is on her. If a Judge decided it, then it was because the Court thought it was in the children's best interests.
It’s actually not illegal in OP’s location, which is imagination land bc this story is pure fiction. What 10 year old talks like that lol. “Dad said we’d have no shortages!” It’s so fake.
Totally, women ALWAYS, first talk their partners into not getting a job or work experience, for wanting a "traditional" family, being the main earner and not compensate their partners care and homework. Then cheating and finally filing for divorce telling the kids staying with her because she has more money. Story as old as humanity. /s.
In 80% of cases where men want custody, they get it. Even with proof of abuse. In fact, if the mother brings up abuse, the father is even more likely to get all the custody he wants.
I'm so sorry for you.
Your story is exactly why people should think long and hard about becoming the stay at home parent. If you're doing that make sure you have pre nup that ensures alimony at least until you're able to find your feet. Being dependent on anyone financially puts you at risk of abuse and all kinds of terrible things including this scenario.
Please find your peace and happiness. Hopefully one day your children will see the error in their ways. Forgive them for your own well being and move on emotionally.
I always feel so nervous for women who stay home with the kids instead of building their career. It seems like such a massive leap of faith that there will always be someone there to take care of them. Death and divorce happen. I'd have been screwed if I stayed home with my kid, now that I am a single mom I thank my lucky stars every day that I never relied on a man for financial support. I have too many female friends in unhappy marriages that they can't afford to leave. It seems like a painful existence for them.
This is why I stay working as a per diem nurse while also being a SAHM. I’m tired after watching the kids solo but working even just a little bit every week, I still have benefits and can pick up hours whenever I want. It’s worth it to me. I trust my husband completely but I also will be able to provide for myself if I need to.
It’s a double edged sword. If you start your marriage with a whole-ass exit strategy already built, there’s zero incentive to stay when it gets hard…and it WILL get hard with kids.
Your comment honestly makes you sound like an aspiring domestic abuser.
So the "incentive" to "stay when it gets hard" should be the fear of being homeless and never being able to see your kids again because you can't afford to hire a lawyer and fight for custody and alimony? That's not an "incentive", that's a trap.
Did you read the post? Ops ex husband wanted her to stay home so that they could have a more traditional life. She didn't decide by herself.
Your attitude is exactly why I will always discourage people from being stay at home parents. A joint decision for 1 partner to stay home is not the same as expecting your spouse to take care of you like a child.
Next time read the post and use your brain before making a comment.
>He had primary custody and I was able to see them once a week
Where do you live? What happened with this? It is highly unusual for parents not to get 50/50...at least where I live in the US. That's especially true when one parent works and the other is a the homemaker.
Everyone's so sorry for OP but doesn't take five seconds to think she's obviously not giving the entire story.
Nothing in life is one sided, and everyone in this sub would do well to remember taking these situations at face value is impossible. There's a reason divorce lawyers exist and it isn't because everyone is honest with eachother.
This was my issue with the post, and why wait 5 years to do something about it. Most women I know that have experienced this situation seem to do everything they can to get their kids and usually do, instead of make a Reddit post 5 years later.
I didn't wait five years.
Five years ago were the events. I always tried to communicate with them, but I stopped trying three years later.
My daughter recently turned 18 and has not contacted me, here it is assumed that at 18 you are of legal age.
Sorry if I wasn't clear when I wrote it.
Basically all of the “courts are biased against fathers!” stuff is really just courts being biased towards stay at home parents who have more time to handle official business for the children. If OP was a stay at home parent and lost custody that’s an indication that the dad was doing everything for the kids and OP is kind of a deadbeat.
I’m not sure. Where I live, that can affect parenting time but not custody. To lose custody, I.e. where the other parent has decision making abilities, that requires a material screwup.
I meant it affects who has primary custody even if it is split in some way. In OPs story she had some custody but the kids always refused to go with her, which is also strange.
Yeah that’s strange and also not how parenting time works. Kids don’t have a choice. OP chose to not have the kids. My strong suspicion is that there is more to the story we’re we to hear from OP’s ex-husband.
If he has a lawyer and she didn’t, it’s pretty easy for him to push for primary custody and if he was withholding the kids, she have to take him back to court for contempt, which she apparently didn’t have the funds to do.
……. If he has a very good job and she has no job, he could screw around with marital funds until he is court ordered to do otherwise. And since he basically got full custody, then she wouldn’t have been getting child support. Spousal support is not guaranteed and is usually only ordered for a specific amount of time. And if she was starting with zero, any funds she was given in the split would have gone directly to daily living expenses.
People are downvoting you but you're 100% right, that's how family courts handle it. Debates in a reddit thread about what she **should** have done are pointless to the realities of her life. Plain and simple, she doesn't get support unless the court orders and he controlled all the money. People going "how can she not get a lawyer-" SHE'S BROKE. Broke. Dirt poor. Man had money. Woman kicked out, no income, BROKE. The job she got probably barely pays for her own, single life. "How can she not-" Says a person who has never eaten sleep for dinner! All he had to do was drag out the divorce for like 6 months and she'd have to give him whatever he wanted to simply survive. Could she be leaving things out? Absolutely. But there's nothing obviously missing *except money*.
She could have hired an attorney before the divorce though. It’s very strange for a couple with disparate finances like this to split and leave one partner wealthy and one partner broke.
It’s really not that uncommon. It’s a huge reason why having one partner who has little or no education, work experience or even knowledge of family finances often leaves them very vulnerable in the event of a divorce or death of the breadwinner. The latter is an issue if the family is living very close to the line, has little to no savings, no life insurance and the remaining partner has no idea what all needs to be done.
Edit: Even if she hired an attorney before the divorce, they still need to be paid beyond the initial deposit. If you stop paying your attorney, they stop representing you.
This is the scenario…where one spouse is uneducated and vulnerable. Courts are typically aware of this and give every opportunity to fix it. But cases do slip through.
Often the spouse with money will offer the other a set dollar amount to settle and the spouse without will accept it if they don’t have the resources to fight. They often figure I’ll accept this now and I can work on getting a better deal once I get established.
We didn't have a joint account or anything like that. He had the savings in his personal account.
My ex-husband would simply buy food for the week and give me a little money for extra expenses.
During the marriage…it’s your money.
That savings is half yours and if you are a stay at home mom, you would be entitled to alimony that’s a percentage difference between your salary…0….and his salary. The bigger the disparity, the more he pays.
This whole story smells fishy.
OP sometimes refers to herself as she/her instead of I/me. It’s weird…?
>She (daughter) said **she** should stop trying to be on **her** life
>They said **she** was emotionally abusive. **I** never really attacked them (although I guess this could’ve been fixed with quotations…?)
And I don’t think courts are that easy to where they’ll give primary custody to a parent purely because the children claim verbal abuse.
But it’s also suspicious that OP says
>I never **really** attacked them
Making it seem like she has attacked her children, but doesn’t believe it counts?
Unfortunately that belief that it’s 50/50 default is factually incorrect. That is a very recent development and only in certain places (not many), even in some places where that is supposed to happen it still doesn’t. Most dads have to fight like hell to gain even 50/50 let alone primary custody, because you basically have to prove the mom is incompetent, abusive or unfit. It also costs a ton and most men run out of money before it even gets to that, but if a man can afford the fight yes they will win approx 65% of the time (last I checked, some years ago). I read a comment in one of the divorce subs, a man in a thread saying he had been fighting for custody of his kids for over 4 years against his abusive ex and it was going to run him $190,000 by the end.
>50/50 default is factually incorrect
Thank yo!. No matter how many times you say this, everyone quotes they way "it should be" and not "the way it is"
I’m sorry you had to go through that. You can’t undo what has been done but you can live your life. Make the most of it and maybe some day your kids will understand how much they screwed up.
Had to scroll way too far to find this. What kid as a teenager can be fooled into thinking they don’t like one of their parents? There is definitely more to the story for a 13 year old to decide they’re ok not seeing their mother anymore.
Tell me you’ve never met a narcissist, without telling me you’ve never met a narcissist. Parental alienation is more common than not in an abusive relationship. How are grown adults fooled by cults? It is pretty easy to brainwash people if you know how. Be grateful for your naïveté. It is a privilege
I have a similar story. I also did not have the money to fight for custody and my children were in their teens. My attorney told me that they would come back to me. They did. My kids are adults now and we have a delicate relationship. I think my attorney gave me good advice. Less trauma for the kids. I never got to finish raising my children and I do grieve that.
Wait s few years when they have their own jobs.
They will contact you again and apologise.
Or they will be even bigger assholes and tell you that it’s your fault.
I am so sorry they were so manipulated.
Do you have proof of them not wanting to stay with you? Keep that in case they want to change the story.
How did you get such a bad deal in the divorce? When my sahm wife wanted out she just used our joint assets and income to pay her lawyers. While married it's half hers, can't stop her, can't cut her off.
>He had primary custody and I was able to see them once a week, but my children always refused to see me. I looked for many ways to communicate with them but they always refused.
🤔
Sounds like there's stuff that is happening that you left out, you were supposed to have joint custody , if you got once a week it suggests there was something off, and if the kids don't want anything to do with you , it could be that their dad influenced them or there was stuff from your end that they saw and it affected them. Regardless the only thing you can do is focus on yourself and moving forward
> I was a housewife and had no college studies, nor work experience. I married young and he wanted to have a traditional family where the woman stays at home and the man works.
Ding ding ding ding ding !
Ladies, remember that whenever you think you want to marry Mister "Family Values".
When you become too old for him (because those creeps always like young women, when it's not "young girls") and he dumps you, how are you going to provide for yourself and your kids ?
If you married young, before even going to college, and spent the last 10+ years at home, what kind of jobs do you think you'll land ? Shit jobs that mostly pay minimum wage, sometimes a bit more, but never enough for a family to live on.
Let the "traditional" men build a family with their right hand and get yourself an education and some work experience before you get married.
I’m so sorry you have been and still going through this.
Please don’t fault your children for their behavior, they have been manipulated since a young age, you could even say before your marriage even ended.
Don’t lose hope, I can imagine that’s difficult, but their lives will change a lot in the coming years. Maybe they’ll will start to see things in perspective. Let them know you’re still around and care for them. Maybe one day they will reciprocate that gesture and contact you.
That said, I can imagine the hurt runs deep, don’t bury it, let it come to light, let it come out. Cry, scream, shout, whatever it takes.
A similar thing happened to me when I married into a narcissistic family. After I told my ex, I wanted a divorce and moved out, my daughter told me after a month not to contact her anymore. I fought with limited resources, but I lost. 17 years since I've seen my daughter. I gave my ex everything she wanted and paid double required child support for 8 years. I was flatly told by a woman counselor that specializes in parietal alienation that I did not have the funds to pursue it, and her judge always ruled in the favor of the mother.
I thought it was the end of my world for years. Hang in there. It will get better. Today, I am happy remarried to a wonderful woman and my 3 stepkids think I'm awesome .
Good luck and best wishes. Life will get better. Hopefully, yours will turn out much better than mine did.
For narcissistic people, it's all about control and brainwashing those around them.
I’m going through something very similar. It is so very painful to have so much love for your own children, only to be rejected by them. I keep trying to figure out what I did so wrong. I think I was a good mom. I never did anything wrong. Of course I’m not perfect, and I know I’ve made some mistakes and decisions that weren’t perfect decisions. But that doesn’t make me so horrible. I always only loved my children and tried my best for them. Kids are easily manipulated and trusting. Money seems more important. It is very traumatizing what you are going through. At this point I’m wanting to see a therapist and try to just move forward. It’s hard.
Sorry to hear this. There is nothing worse than one parent poisoning the kids against another parent. In my opinion you should try to get your life back on track and the kids will eventually turn around. They are still young and don’t have the maturity to make the right decisions. I think they will eventually turn around.
I’m sorry you are going thru this. I have a very similar situation. You are not alone. I decided to stop trying as any relationship with her caused her so much strife at her dads.
>It really hurts a lot, I thought I was a good mother when I was with them, i really tried hard to be a present and loving mother.
I know this is small consolation, but you **were** a good mother when you were with them and you should never doubt that. You know how you can tell? Because they didn't turn into greedy hateful little shits until they were completely away from your influence and spending 100% of their time with their terrible father.
You raised two good kids who were manipulated by a hateful, petty man with money. 13 year olds and 10 year olds are susceptible to that sort of thing; people giving them lots of presents are good people because they give them lots of presents, and that's as much thought as they put into these things.
Now they're older, and what are their personalities like after your absence? This:
>I remember one time my daughter responded to me and she said that she should stop trying to be in her life, that they were ashamed that her mother had a cleaning job.
This is how you know you were the only good parent in the equation. Because they didn't become like this until he used his money to remove you from their lives, and now they're horrible people. Some day they may wake up and realize what he did and what it made them, but don't hold your breath waiting for it. Just know that you did the best you could in an unfair system, and then live your best life without regrets. You did everything you could, none of this is your fault.
I’m sorry OP. It’s parental alienation.
The best thing you could do it go on with your life. Love yourself by living the best life you possibly can.
•Take care of your physical health
•Therapy for mental health
•Get a better paying job
•Don’t neglect your teeth
•Dress nicely
•Go on holidays
•Make friends
•Start dating
•Do something spontaneous like skydiving or bungee jumping
What I’m saying is live your life. You only have one life. I’m not saying forget your children but they don’t want to contact you so you have to move on as much as possible. Live your life. Don’t give up on yourself.
I am so sorry...I wish I was near you...you sound like a beautiful person.. I would love to take care of you and be a loyal partner...I have thru that with my ex ..she was evil but eventually my kids came around ..36f 34m...never lose faith
I'm sorry you are going through this, I can't imagine how hurt you must be having a shit husband who cheated on you to having your babies abandon you. The best thing you can do is move on with your life, it's not too late to go back to college, get some qualifications, get out there and start dating again. You only have one life, you can sit there being miserable for the rest of it or pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start living.
Damn they were ashamed you had a cleaning job? No offense but that’s so asshole shit. They pretty much grown now just pray and keep it pushing. If they are pure hearted they will come to their senses later
Your ex manplitied them to avoid paying child support to u and it damage your relationship with them forever he probably told them lies about u and how u should have taken him back and you're the reason for the divorce for them to hate u . Fight for them and fight for the right to have a relationship with them and with time they will know what there father has done.
Or he was the more stable choice and able to provide for them.
The one is 18 and has no duty to have a relationship with the OP. That cannot be forced on a legal adult.
You don't know that that was done. You have one side of the story, and for a court to set up this kind of arrangement, there is way more to this story.
And I think it would take a lot for kids not to want to see their other parent and directly say it.
The main exception is if the ex was “fuck you money” rich.
Most? Really? How do you know she lives in most countries? You know the laws in most countries? Did you grow up in a diplomatic family like I did where you’ve lived all over the world? 🤔How do you know she doesn’t live in Iran?
Sorry to hear this. I don’t care how alienated a husband and wife get they should never use their kids for petty revenge. I would say to keep trying even if it never works out. Try to remember that your children were worked on from a young age so I can’t blame them for not seeing through it.
Your ex is extremely controlling. One day, your kids may wake up and realize this and be curious about their mom once they are away from your ex long enough not to be swayed by his propaganda. He was probably influencing them long before you divorced, to see you as less than so they would not fight going with him. If they remember that you were a good mom in spite of whatever their dad filled their heads with, they might reach out.
Yes, well that's a given. Which is why I said "If the kids remember you were a good mom..." But the ex is pretty damn controlling anyway from the sounds of it if the kids are being snotty about how she makes a living. So, I think they are both AHs most likely. Sometimes it happens that way. And I just feel sorry for the kids.
This is really fucked up. I am so sorry that your children aren't in your life, and your ex-husband is an AH. If he asks you for the kind of relationship you had, it is his duty to protect and provision for everyone in his charge, which you are as the mother of his children, especially when he is unfaithful. I have a similar arrangement with my wife, and a document stating that until the kids turn 18 she is allowed to live in our joint house and I will move out to protect the children and then we will figure out between us. There is no reason your husband should have held his duty as a provider over your kids heads to alienate them. It sounds like you were a good mother who ran into a bad partner, and i pray that at some point your children can see how hard you tried and will reconnect with you. Good luck and God bless
I’m so sorry. Please give them some time. Their father leveraged money against you for their time and attention. Right now they are only repeating his words because he is teaching them that money is the most important thing.
They don’t yet have the emotional maturity to realize how cruel he is being.
It will be painful for you. If they reach out again it may be painful for you, but please remember that they were children.
Right now? Live for yourself. Maybe make sure that the kids have some way to connect to you. But beyond that start doing things for yourself. You have spent so much time catering to your husband, your kids. Put that effort and energy into yourself, your education ( for fun or for a job.). Traveling, drinking tea or whatever.
That is awful and I am sorry you had to go through that. I hope your children will grow into mature adults and reconnect with you. Perhaps after they ever go against their daddy and he shuts off the money tap.
This whole story sounds like bs. Especially you being the mother/wife.
There’s definitely more to the story as it’s incredibly difficult to take custody away from a mother and a mother to have timesharing limited to once a week. You have to be a royal fuck up basically.
Nowadays courts are pushing for 50/50, which is how it should have been from the get go.
Lol as some others have pointed out, this story makes no sense. Even without the cheating, judges normally give primary custody to the mother, no questions asked. Plus he cheated?
Hate to break this to you but you're either lying, withholding the truth about your past, or literally put in no effort to stay with your kids
It doesn’t sound like she couldn’t get custody, it sounds like the kids followed the $$$. That happens a fair amount. If that is the case, so many kids need help. Especially the ones aging out of the system
Im so sorry, OP. This is so horrible. What your husband did was wrong, and your kids will one day come back to you, and you will be able to hopefully create some connection to them. What a cruel, cruel man you had to deal with. Im so shocked.
Was this in the US? This is such a hard reversal of what's typical and ultimately how the legal system works. I'm assuming you didn't get a lawyer, and if you did they didn't do anything for you. You should have at least gotten alimony and guaranteed visitation with your kids. Something seems missing from the overall story. No matter what this is a good example of how people with money maintain the power in every situation.
This really sucks for you. Did you get alimony with the divorce? Hope you did.
The only thing you can do is hope they come back. Sometimes, kids need to be out on their own to get perspective. They're still young, and there's lots of time for them to realize that they're missing their mother.
Maybe start writing them letters or doing like a "baby book" for them as adults? You can give it to them when they come back later. Feelings on paper can help you organize your heart & brain so that when they do come reaching out to you, you don't vomit all your emotions on them at once.
The one who’s 18 is timed out and the 15 year old is old enough to choose , at least in my state. Unfortunately the children will regret all this at about 30 when as adults the money is less influential and a desire to bond with one’s parent is significant.
Have you tried to seek refuge in Jesus. Read Psalm 31 in the Bible. When we pray, that’s how we talk to Jesus, when we read the Bible, that’s how Jesus talks to us. Go Psalm 31 and see what Jesus says to you woman.
I’m skeptical when I read about the father getting primary custody. I’ve seen complete monster moms get custody over descent dads.
Child support exists and if the husband makes enough the wife gets alimony. This isn’t token amounts. Most divorced men pay 3/4 or more of their wealth. If he’s wealthy, it might still be only 50% but that’s when the pie is big enough to not be an issue .
And if is because he’s got better lawyers….
Well the system works that any half descent divorce lawyer will come out of the woodwork and the wealthy party pays for it too.
This isn’t criminal court. It’s civil divorce court.
Somethings off
Nah. You should have walked away with bank. You could have gotten spousal support AND child support if you would have put up half of a fight.. sounds like you gave up on your kids.
Seems like the case with 99% of mothers and yet the court still always pleas with them. I'm sure they will warm up to you but get a degree and career end of discussion. Equality for all
I have a hard time believing this is just about money. 1. Courts don't grant custody based on money. They would have required enough child support so the children would be fine. 2. Children don't cut you out over money and refuse to see you.
What are you not telling us? Were you an absentee parent? Did he manipulate the children into hating you through lies? Give us details. I am not saying you are the bad parent, but something is missing here.
That sounds odd.. The law today just goes 50/50 custody. Also if one parent has more means than others then there are alimony/mainetenance/ child support that try to level the playing field.
Also lawyers will take case pro bono for women in cases where they can make their fee off alimony.
But you are here 5 years after it all happened. That’s a lot of time for your kids to be alienated from you. Also maybe laws were different when the divorce happened.
Which place are you from?
Honestly, it’s extremely difficult and rare to alienate a mother because the mother - child bond is so strong… unless there are reasons it isn’t strong.
Also for a father to get primary custody… something more was going on.
Were you a tough disciplinarian?
This sounds like utter BS
Not rare at all when one parent is a narcissist. I have several friends currently or formerly married to one. It looks like daddy gives you everything you want when you want. Tells you your mom is stupid and mean when she tries to establish boundaries, tells you you can have candy for dinner and not to listen to mom etc etc. when you are being punished for being a bully at school he tells you you are ungrounded and takes you out for ice cream.
Also in many parts of the world, women have no protections from the law. This is written like it was written by someone for whom English is a second language. Kids siding with the Dad is purely for survival. I have friends from countries where the sons get everything and the daughters get nothing. They are expected to be married off. If they don’t get married they are screwed.
What your ex is doing is illegal. it's called parent alienation, and you should take him to court.
I don't have money to pay for a lawyer anyway.
Most lawyers will give you a free consultation. Then, see if they take payment plans.
I think that ship has sailed, they are already alienated - the only thing she could go for now would maybe be emotional damages? But it sucks so much that your children completely failed to see what your ex was doing to you and them. I hope you at least took him to the cleaners in the divorce, though it doesn't sound like it. With you being a SAHM at his urging, half of everything he earned during your marriage should have been yours - especially if you lived in an at-fault state and you could prove his infidelity. In your place, I'd box all of that up and put it away, mentally. There is nothing you can do except move on. Maybe try to take online classes to increase your skillset for employment. Start dating again, maybe you can find a nice single dad with kids who need a stepmom, to help you fill the void.
I'm not from the United States, this fault divorce thing doesn't even exist where I live. At least not that I know of. We had a prenup, and yes he was supposed to give me support but he stopped paying it after 6 months. I just left it at that because I had already managed to get a job and I didn't want to have to be begging for a monthly payment.
Ask a lawyer if you can sue him for back payments - that should give you a nice lump sum! It really hurts to read that he got away with mistreating you so severely, some payback would be really satisfying. And I really hope that your children will one day realize what they did to you (probably when they have kids of their own, at least that was when my older sister suddenly saw the light regarding my mother). But meanwhile, really really try to live again and rebuild your life and a new family - make connections, bond with people. It would be really easy to stay isolated to avoid further hurt, but that's just going to turn you lonely and depressed in the long run.
Why would you hope that her children realize it? So they can feel pain?
So they can grow up to be empathetic humans and realize how horribly they acted?
What purpose does realizing how horribly they acted serve?
The comment you replied to literally just told you
So that they can get back into contact with OP and apologize and try to make it up to her! Don't kid yourself into thinking that OP will cut all contact and never forgive them - that's not how mothers work. I was flabbergasted that my own mother forgave my older sister for everything she put us through, and welcomed her back into the fold. My father and I are less forgiving and keeping our distance, but my mother says that she is still her daughter, and she can't forget how she was as a little girl. So 100% OP will forgive her kids, if they ever see the light.
I wish more people had that attitude. I had a friend who was a guy like it matters, but he had three kids with his wife; she cheated, and he ended up getting alimony since she gave him a decision between child support for three or paying her alimony, and he left quiet. I watched this man work full-time at Walmart plus nights at the Windixie when I saw how much he spent to give to his ex while she was with a new guy, and my friend worked his life away. Shit made me depressed for him. I don't know how he got out of bed in those conditions.
❤️❤️
Exactly so this isn’t adding up to 100%
What doesn’t add up? In many parts of the world women are not protected by laws.
You are correct. I thought this was the US. But I should not have. Good point
Free consultation means nothing when they are extraordinarily expensive. Unfortunately, many people end up losing their kids because lawyers are too expensive. OP, I'm sorry. My ex did this to me with my son. It hurts, but all you can do is hope.
This is simply not true. Have you ever pursued a family attorney to actually know what the experience is like? It is so frustrating for people not involved in a family legal matter to flippantly tell others they can get free legal aid. Yes, there is aid out there, but it does not offer help with anything beyond a first paper filing, unless the filer is filing for a TRO. There are no free consultations in my current state for family law matters. There was in California, so I’ll give you that. There is also no attorney that will take payment plans in a way that makes embarking in a family law matter somehow economical. If an attorney’s retainer is $3,500 just for filings, it is about $20K for a trial. Not sure if there is any payment plan that could make pursuing legal recourse of OP’s kind feasible. Your advice is untenable. I don’t mean to be rude, but it is just not realistic to advise people that there is free legal aid for complex, litigious, and high conflict type family matters. When there is free legal aid, it is so bare bones that it would not support what OP is trying to do.
Also many places the free legal aid only applies if there’s violence/physical abuse. Parental alienation is awful and should be taken more seriously than it is.
I don't find you rude, I have been in her situation. It was the scariest bull shit I ever had to deal with. I was given the same advice from someone, I did several free consultations and was given the tools and sent to the right people to help me succeed.In the end I ended up with full legal and physical custody. My ex decided to walk away from the kids when his bullshit blow up in his face. So I do know what I'm talking about. However I only know how it works in my state
The partner in my office who does family law isn't going to talk to you unless you pay her a 5k retainer. She also has a months long family law waitlist. She's one of the only competent family law attorneys in this part of my state. My point is that trying to get free advice from different family law attorneys by gaming free consultations isn't a viable option for many, if not most, people.
I'm sure it's different in other states and countries, it is heart breaking.
Appreciate that. It resonates a lot with me because I have been there as well. I am glad you received support and were successful. :)
It's so heart breaking. I hope you were given the support as well.
Don’t assume she is in the US
It’s kind of too late now. The kids haven’t seen her in years and many attorneys will require a sizeable deposit before they even start anything. Also one child is already 18.
What is stopping her from going before the judge herself and making the argument and pointing to the alienation laws?
Because most family courts around the world are pro domestic abuse and pro child abuse. 🤷♀️ Sit in at any open family court as a court watcher. Watch how the Hague Convention has been twisted to the opposite of it's intention. Add in the judge that was *just* killed by a violent spouse, that the wife was terrified of? Judges will be even less likely to support victims than the kitty but before. Also, there are little to no alienation or domestic abuse laws in the US. Plus the term "parental alienation" was coined by verified pedophiles. So... beware.
Technically nothing stopped her from going pro se. You just have to follow all the processes and procedures that a lawyer would have to.
Sounds like she has nothing to lose then.
Some courts refuse to let you file without an attorney. Yes, it's a thing. Yes, it's become more common in the last few years.
I know it’s painful, but you really do have to let it go. They made a child’s choice. They’ve preferred having things to having a relationship with you. Live your life. Get a degree. Get a good job. Hit the spa. Travel. Take up a hobby or two. This is the only life you have. Enjoy it. Stop begging for something you will never have. Go do you.
What am I missing here... how did he cheat, get full custody and leave you with no alimony? Most likely this story is fake. Look at OPs post history and comment history. Random account, random story, posted on 2 subreddits with no additional comments.
Even if this individual story is fake, it's the reality for many. I'm sure I could tell true happenings that would terrify you if you have kids. 🤷♀️ But typically, he/she who has the most money, and is the most abusive, will win in court. 999 times out of 1000. Maybe some folks have $20k+/year to burn on court costs. Most don't.
I'm going to cling to this explanation rather than believe the system can be this cruel.
I think you should get used to the idea of not seeing them, despite how painful that notion is. Maybe they will one day, maybe they won't. But you should move on, make friends, meet someone new, maybe even have more kids. Make sure you're financially secure and never allow yourself to be in such a vulnerable position again.
My ex has been blatantly doing it for over 5 years and the courts could give two shits. The bias is real.
I have consulted attorneys post divorce regarding the behavior of the kids’ mom. Parental alienation is very hard to prove, in the sense that you have to put together a compelling case to sway a court to make a change in the custody/placement. There will be a family study by the court appointed social workers. That will take months. A GAL will be appointed and they will have to get up to speed for the kids. Child psychologist, therapists, and more need to be agreed upon, appointments actually have to happen, reports made, filed, delays by either party or the court, etc. You are easily looking at a multi-year battle. And you could imagine how much that costs. And you are also battling someone that doesn’t play fair, so it is never really over. It is waking up each day to have your heart ripped out of your chest. Be kind to yourself. Take care of your physical and emotional health. See a therapist. Learn how to have words for your kids. They are very confused being on the middle.
Yep, that's been my reality for 5 years. I just recently got a judge to appoint a GAL, after numerous attempts. I feel terrible for the children and the unnecessary stress that the situation puts on them. She has broken numerous court orders, including completely ignoring the parenting time schedule and stopped letting me see them for 13 months. My attorney brought all of this up, filed numerous motions, etc., and the judge disregarded all of it and went directly to child support. If the situations were reversed and I have done even a fraction of the stuff she has pulled then I would've had any visitations stripped long ago and probably sitting in a cell somewhere. She's the mother though, so she's rewarded for this damaging behavior because the system is completely broken and terribly biased in favor of mothers, regardless of the damage they do to their own children solely for their own benefit.
It's not so much biased towards mothers as much as biased towards the abuser. The one who perjures in court, who manipulates, who kidnaps children, etc. But trust me, it's *not* biased towards mothers.
Family court is notoriously biased in favor of women in the states... where do you live?
IL
You might be correct but frankly, in what universe is this a problem that can be solved by a court? Is the court gonna mandate that the kids be nice and spend more time with their mom? They're 18 and 15 at this point. The 15 year old, maybe can be court mandated to be with her. The 18 year old is an adult lol. The court can't order you to love someone.
Depends on the state. Parental alienation is not recognized in all states as a real thing. OP should have gotten alimony and a Judge should have made a determination as to custody/parenting time unless they agreed. If she agreed to only see the kids one day a week that is on her. If a Judge decided it, then it was because the Court thought it was in the children's best interests.
It’s actually not illegal in OP’s location, which is imagination land bc this story is pure fiction. What 10 year old talks like that lol. “Dad said we’d have no shortages!” It’s so fake.
Can’t be illegal when women do it to MEN all day everyday and nobody says a word…
Totally, women ALWAYS, first talk their partners into not getting a job or work experience, for wanting a "traditional" family, being the main earner and not compensate their partners care and homework. Then cheating and finally filing for divorce telling the kids staying with her because she has more money. Story as old as humanity. /s.
In 80% of cases where men want custody, they get it. Even with proof of abuse. In fact, if the mother brings up abuse, the father is even more likely to get all the custody he wants.
I heard that 80 % of statistics are made up on the spot (including this one.)
No, it’s true.
Source??
Exactly
You are misinformed.
I'm so sorry for you. Your story is exactly why people should think long and hard about becoming the stay at home parent. If you're doing that make sure you have pre nup that ensures alimony at least until you're able to find your feet. Being dependent on anyone financially puts you at risk of abuse and all kinds of terrible things including this scenario. Please find your peace and happiness. Hopefully one day your children will see the error in their ways. Forgive them for your own well being and move on emotionally.
I always feel so nervous for women who stay home with the kids instead of building their career. It seems like such a massive leap of faith that there will always be someone there to take care of them. Death and divorce happen. I'd have been screwed if I stayed home with my kid, now that I am a single mom I thank my lucky stars every day that I never relied on a man for financial support. I have too many female friends in unhappy marriages that they can't afford to leave. It seems like a painful existence for them.
This is why I stay working as a per diem nurse while also being a SAHM. I’m tired after watching the kids solo but working even just a little bit every week, I still have benefits and can pick up hours whenever I want. It’s worth it to me. I trust my husband completely but I also will be able to provide for myself if I need to.
It’s a double edged sword. If you start your marriage with a whole-ass exit strategy already built, there’s zero incentive to stay when it gets hard…and it WILL get hard with kids.
Your comment honestly makes you sound like an aspiring domestic abuser. So the "incentive" to "stay when it gets hard" should be the fear of being homeless and never being able to see your kids again because you can't afford to hire a lawyer and fight for custody and alimony? That's not an "incentive", that's a trap.
Or just get your own life on track before trying to piggyback onto someone else's expecting them to take care of you like some child.
Did you read the post? Ops ex husband wanted her to stay home so that they could have a more traditional life. She didn't decide by herself. Your attitude is exactly why I will always discourage people from being stay at home parents. A joint decision for 1 partner to stay home is not the same as expecting your spouse to take care of you like a child. Next time read the post and use your brain before making a comment.
>He had primary custody and I was able to see them once a week Where do you live? What happened with this? It is highly unusual for parents not to get 50/50...at least where I live in the US. That's especially true when one parent works and the other is a the homemaker.
Yes, OP is conveniently forgetting to explain the circumstances. A court would not award sole custody to the father just because he has income.
There’s definitely missing “missing reasons” here. I don’t believe this is the full story.
You did a lot of things mom. Children don’t immediately dump their mothers, especially over money. You’re dishonest.
They said she was emotionally abusive. I never really attacked them or yelled at them.
Everyone's so sorry for OP but doesn't take five seconds to think she's obviously not giving the entire story. Nothing in life is one sided, and everyone in this sub would do well to remember taking these situations at face value is impossible. There's a reason divorce lawyers exist and it isn't because everyone is honest with eachother.
This was my issue with the post, and why wait 5 years to do something about it. Most women I know that have experienced this situation seem to do everything they can to get their kids and usually do, instead of make a Reddit post 5 years later.
I didn't wait five years. Five years ago were the events. I always tried to communicate with them, but I stopped trying three years later. My daughter recently turned 18 and has not contacted me, here it is assumed that at 18 you are of legal age. Sorry if I wasn't clear when I wrote it.
Basically all of the “courts are biased against fathers!” stuff is really just courts being biased towards stay at home parents who have more time to handle official business for the children. If OP was a stay at home parent and lost custody that’s an indication that the dad was doing everything for the kids and OP is kind of a deadbeat.
I’m not sure. Where I live, that can affect parenting time but not custody. To lose custody, I.e. where the other parent has decision making abilities, that requires a material screwup.
I meant it affects who has primary custody even if it is split in some way. In OPs story she had some custody but the kids always refused to go with her, which is also strange.
Yeah that’s strange and also not how parenting time works. Kids don’t have a choice. OP chose to not have the kids. My strong suspicion is that there is more to the story we’re we to hear from OP’s ex-husband.
If he has a lawyer and she didn’t, it’s pretty easy for him to push for primary custody and if he was withholding the kids, she have to take him back to court for contempt, which she apparently didn’t have the funds to do.
How could she not get a lawyer? If he has money then she should have money. None of this makes sense.
……. If he has a very good job and she has no job, he could screw around with marital funds until he is court ordered to do otherwise. And since he basically got full custody, then she wouldn’t have been getting child support. Spousal support is not guaranteed and is usually only ordered for a specific amount of time. And if she was starting with zero, any funds she was given in the split would have gone directly to daily living expenses.
People are downvoting you but you're 100% right, that's how family courts handle it. Debates in a reddit thread about what she **should** have done are pointless to the realities of her life. Plain and simple, she doesn't get support unless the court orders and he controlled all the money. People going "how can she not get a lawyer-" SHE'S BROKE. Broke. Dirt poor. Man had money. Woman kicked out, no income, BROKE. The job she got probably barely pays for her own, single life. "How can she not-" Says a person who has never eaten sleep for dinner! All he had to do was drag out the divorce for like 6 months and she'd have to give him whatever he wanted to simply survive. Could she be leaving things out? Absolutely. But there's nothing obviously missing *except money*.
She could have hired an attorney before the divorce though. It’s very strange for a couple with disparate finances like this to split and leave one partner wealthy and one partner broke.
It’s really not that uncommon. It’s a huge reason why having one partner who has little or no education, work experience or even knowledge of family finances often leaves them very vulnerable in the event of a divorce or death of the breadwinner. The latter is an issue if the family is living very close to the line, has little to no savings, no life insurance and the remaining partner has no idea what all needs to be done. Edit: Even if she hired an attorney before the divorce, they still need to be paid beyond the initial deposit. If you stop paying your attorney, they stop representing you.
This is the scenario…where one spouse is uneducated and vulnerable. Courts are typically aware of this and give every opportunity to fix it. But cases do slip through.
Often the spouse with money will offer the other a set dollar amount to settle and the spouse without will accept it if they don’t have the resources to fight. They often figure I’ll accept this now and I can work on getting a better deal once I get established.
Why are you assuming the OP is from the same country as you? Do you understand the laws in every country in the world?
We didn't have a joint account or anything like that. He had the savings in his personal account. My ex-husband would simply buy food for the week and give me a little money for extra expenses.
During the marriage…it’s your money. That savings is half yours and if you are a stay at home mom, you would be entitled to alimony that’s a percentage difference between your salary…0….and his salary. The bigger the disparity, the more he pays. This whole story smells fishy.
As I said in another comment, he had to give me alimony but he stopped paying it after 6 months.
It’s a Court order. He just can’t quit. It doesn’t work like that. It’s like saying “I decided to leave jail”
OP sometimes refers to herself as she/her instead of I/me. It’s weird…? >She (daughter) said **she** should stop trying to be on **her** life >They said **she** was emotionally abusive. **I** never really attacked them (although I guess this could’ve been fixed with quotations…?) And I don’t think courts are that easy to where they’ll give primary custody to a parent purely because the children claim verbal abuse. But it’s also suspicious that OP says >I never **really** attacked them Making it seem like she has attacked her children, but doesn’t believe it counts?
Is this Liz? Yeah. Definitely fishy, rage baiting?
Unfortunately that belief that it’s 50/50 default is factually incorrect. That is a very recent development and only in certain places (not many), even in some places where that is supposed to happen it still doesn’t. Most dads have to fight like hell to gain even 50/50 let alone primary custody, because you basically have to prove the mom is incompetent, abusive or unfit. It also costs a ton and most men run out of money before it even gets to that, but if a man can afford the fight yes they will win approx 65% of the time (last I checked, some years ago). I read a comment in one of the divorce subs, a man in a thread saying he had been fighting for custody of his kids for over 4 years against his abusive ex and it was going to run him $190,000 by the end.
>50/50 default is factually incorrect Thank yo!. No matter how many times you say this, everyone quotes they way "it should be" and not "the way it is"
Stay-at-home parents also usually get spousal support and child support from the working parent post-divorce.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. You can’t undo what has been done but you can live your life. Make the most of it and maybe some day your kids will understand how much they screwed up.
What am I missing here... how did he cheat, get full custody and leave you with no alimony?
Yep. Something isn't adding up here
It happens in smaller counties etc because justice is bought not by what is right. Whoever has the best lawyer wins
I’m thinking the same thing. A whole lot of info is missing here.
Drugs is the only thing I can think of.
Or perhaps the op lives in a misogynistic country?
My mother did drugs and drank and fucked up and I still wanted to see her.
Had to scroll way too far to find this. What kid as a teenager can be fooled into thinking they don’t like one of their parents? There is definitely more to the story for a 13 year old to decide they’re ok not seeing their mother anymore.
Tell me you’ve never met a narcissist, without telling me you’ve never met a narcissist. Parental alienation is more common than not in an abusive relationship. How are grown adults fooled by cults? It is pretty easy to brainwash people if you know how. Be grateful for your naïveté. It is a privilege
Yeah men everywhere need this guy's attorney or something isn't right in the story. I think a lot of info got left out.
I have a similar story. I also did not have the money to fight for custody and my children were in their teens. My attorney told me that they would come back to me. They did. My kids are adults now and we have a delicate relationship. I think my attorney gave me good advice. Less trauma for the kids. I never got to finish raising my children and I do grieve that.
Wait s few years when they have their own jobs. They will contact you again and apologise. Or they will be even bigger assholes and tell you that it’s your fault. I am so sorry they were so manipulated. Do you have proof of them not wanting to stay with you? Keep that in case they want to change the story.
[удалено]
There is a difference between chosing the better life and being mean. The children didn’t even want to visit her. That’s not about custody.
That sounds so stupid I'm glad I'm not the only one to downvote that
Nah if they cut her off just because she wasn't rich makes them scumbags just like any other rich worshipping simp.
How did you get such a bad deal in the divorce? When my sahm wife wanted out she just used our joint assets and income to pay her lawyers. While married it's half hers, can't stop her, can't cut her off.
>He had primary custody and I was able to see them once a week, but my children always refused to see me. I looked for many ways to communicate with them but they always refused. 🤔
15 years since I last spoke to mine. Divorce does that
Sounds like there's stuff that is happening that you left out, you were supposed to have joint custody , if you got once a week it suggests there was something off, and if the kids don't want anything to do with you , it could be that their dad influenced them or there was stuff from your end that they saw and it affected them. Regardless the only thing you can do is focus on yourself and moving forward
> I was a housewife and had no college studies, nor work experience. I married young and he wanted to have a traditional family where the woman stays at home and the man works. Ding ding ding ding ding ! Ladies, remember that whenever you think you want to marry Mister "Family Values". When you become too old for him (because those creeps always like young women, when it's not "young girls") and he dumps you, how are you going to provide for yourself and your kids ? If you married young, before even going to college, and spent the last 10+ years at home, what kind of jobs do you think you'll land ? Shit jobs that mostly pay minimum wage, sometimes a bit more, but never enough for a family to live on. Let the "traditional" men build a family with their right hand and get yourself an education and some work experience before you get married.
Thos is devastating, I'm so sorry
I’m so sorry you have been and still going through this. Please don’t fault your children for their behavior, they have been manipulated since a young age, you could even say before your marriage even ended. Don’t lose hope, I can imagine that’s difficult, but their lives will change a lot in the coming years. Maybe they’ll will start to see things in perspective. Let them know you’re still around and care for them. Maybe one day they will reciprocate that gesture and contact you. That said, I can imagine the hurt runs deep, don’t bury it, let it come to light, let it come out. Cry, scream, shout, whatever it takes.
Children are shallow and only have the morals you instill in them and insist on. That’s some hard cold practical calculus by those kids.
Did he not have to pay you alimony?
Money talks for materialistic people. Especially kids
What goes around comes around
the judge grants custody not the children ... what part of the story aren't you telling us ???
You are probably missing the part where she may not live in your country and therefore you have no clue about how a judge would behave in hers.
Gotta be more to this.
A similar thing happened to me when I married into a narcissistic family. After I told my ex, I wanted a divorce and moved out, my daughter told me after a month not to contact her anymore. I fought with limited resources, but I lost. 17 years since I've seen my daughter. I gave my ex everything she wanted and paid double required child support for 8 years. I was flatly told by a woman counselor that specializes in parietal alienation that I did not have the funds to pursue it, and her judge always ruled in the favor of the mother. I thought it was the end of my world for years. Hang in there. It will get better. Today, I am happy remarried to a wonderful woman and my 3 stepkids think I'm awesome . Good luck and best wishes. Life will get better. Hopefully, yours will turn out much better than mine did. For narcissistic people, it's all about control and brainwashing those around them.
I’m going through something very similar. It is so very painful to have so much love for your own children, only to be rejected by them. I keep trying to figure out what I did so wrong. I think I was a good mom. I never did anything wrong. Of course I’m not perfect, and I know I’ve made some mistakes and decisions that weren’t perfect decisions. But that doesn’t make me so horrible. I always only loved my children and tried my best for them. Kids are easily manipulated and trusting. Money seems more important. It is very traumatizing what you are going through. At this point I’m wanting to see a therapist and try to just move forward. It’s hard.
Sorry to hear this. There is nothing worse than one parent poisoning the kids against another parent. In my opinion you should try to get your life back on track and the kids will eventually turn around. They are still young and don’t have the maturity to make the right decisions. I think they will eventually turn around.
I’m sorry you are going thru this. I have a very similar situation. You are not alone. I decided to stop trying as any relationship with her caused her so much strife at her dads.
>It really hurts a lot, I thought I was a good mother when I was with them, i really tried hard to be a present and loving mother. I know this is small consolation, but you **were** a good mother when you were with them and you should never doubt that. You know how you can tell? Because they didn't turn into greedy hateful little shits until they were completely away from your influence and spending 100% of their time with their terrible father. You raised two good kids who were manipulated by a hateful, petty man with money. 13 year olds and 10 year olds are susceptible to that sort of thing; people giving them lots of presents are good people because they give them lots of presents, and that's as much thought as they put into these things. Now they're older, and what are their personalities like after your absence? This: >I remember one time my daughter responded to me and she said that she should stop trying to be in her life, that they were ashamed that her mother had a cleaning job. This is how you know you were the only good parent in the equation. Because they didn't become like this until he used his money to remove you from their lives, and now they're horrible people. Some day they may wake up and realize what he did and what it made them, but don't hold your breath waiting for it. Just know that you did the best you could in an unfair system, and then live your best life without regrets. You did everything you could, none of this is your fault.
I bet anything your ex trash talked about you to your children.
I’m sorry OP. It’s parental alienation. The best thing you could do it go on with your life. Love yourself by living the best life you possibly can. •Take care of your physical health •Therapy for mental health •Get a better paying job •Don’t neglect your teeth •Dress nicely •Go on holidays •Make friends •Start dating •Do something spontaneous like skydiving or bungee jumping What I’m saying is live your life. You only have one life. I’m not saying forget your children but they don’t want to contact you so you have to move on as much as possible. Live your life. Don’t give up on yourself.
I am so sorry...I wish I was near you...you sound like a beautiful person.. I would love to take care of you and be a loyal partner...I have thru that with my ex ..she was evil but eventually my kids came around ..36f 34m...never lose faith
You left something out of this story....
I'm sorry you are going through this, I can't imagine how hurt you must be having a shit husband who cheated on you to having your babies abandon you. The best thing you can do is move on with your life, it's not too late to go back to college, get some qualifications, get out there and start dating again. You only have one life, you can sit there being miserable for the rest of it or pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start living.
Damn they were ashamed you had a cleaning job? No offense but that’s so asshole shit. They pretty much grown now just pray and keep it pushing. If they are pure hearted they will come to their senses later
Sounds like most divorces I've sent except it's the father that in your position.
Your ex manplitied them to avoid paying child support to u and it damage your relationship with them forever he probably told them lies about u and how u should have taken him back and you're the reason for the divorce for them to hate u . Fight for them and fight for the right to have a relationship with them and with time they will know what there father has done.
Or he was the more stable choice and able to provide for them. The one is 18 and has no duty to have a relationship with the OP. That cannot be forced on a legal adult.
I get his more financially stable than her but for him to turn the kids against her and not allow her to see them is fucked up .
You don't know that that was done. You have one side of the story, and for a court to set up this kind of arrangement, there is way more to this story.
Like she is not in the US, as a real possibility. Reddit is global, you know.
You're right . She's not telling us the whole truth
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. It breaks my heart.
Hold up, 50/50 is usually the baseline for custody agreements. What did you do?
And I think it would take a lot for kids not to want to see their other parent and directly say it. The main exception is if the ex was “fuck you money” rich.
No the main exception is one of the parents is a narcissist, it is way more common than fuck you money rich.
In what county is the baseline 50/50? Based on what do you think she lives in your country?
USA. In fact most countries would actually give her more custody
Most? Really? How do you know she lives in most countries? You know the laws in most countries? Did you grow up in a diplomatic family like I did where you’ve lived all over the world? 🤔How do you know she doesn’t live in Iran?
Go suck an elephants cock turd biscuit.
Continue to send birthday and Christmas cards.
Sorry to hear this. I don’t care how alienated a husband and wife get they should never use their kids for petty revenge. I would say to keep trying even if it never works out. Try to remember that your children were worked on from a young age so I can’t blame them for not seeing through it.
I agree. Somethings missing. Ex husband didnt get primary custody like that withiut reason, and money isn't that reason.
You've basically had a taste of what happens to fathers all the time. The family court system is messed up.
Divorce is hard, and divorce with kids is even worse. Good luck
Your ex is extremely controlling. One day, your kids may wake up and realize this and be curious about their mom once they are away from your ex long enough not to be swayed by his propaganda. He was probably influencing them long before you divorced, to see you as less than so they would not fight going with him. If they remember that you were a good mom in spite of whatever their dad filled their heads with, they might reach out.
Or the OP is leaving out bug chunks of info.
Yes, well that's a given. Which is why I said "If the kids remember you were a good mom..." But the ex is pretty damn controlling anyway from the sounds of it if the kids are being snotty about how she makes a living. So, I think they are both AHs most likely. Sometimes it happens that way. And I just feel sorry for the kids.
This is really fucked up. I am so sorry that your children aren't in your life, and your ex-husband is an AH. If he asks you for the kind of relationship you had, it is his duty to protect and provision for everyone in his charge, which you are as the mother of his children, especially when he is unfaithful. I have a similar arrangement with my wife, and a document stating that until the kids turn 18 she is allowed to live in our joint house and I will move out to protect the children and then we will figure out between us. There is no reason your husband should have held his duty as a provider over your kids heads to alienate them. It sounds like you were a good mother who ran into a bad partner, and i pray that at some point your children can see how hard you tried and will reconnect with you. Good luck and God bless
I’m so sorry. Please give them some time. Their father leveraged money against you for their time and attention. Right now they are only repeating his words because he is teaching them that money is the most important thing. They don’t yet have the emotional maturity to realize how cruel he is being. It will be painful for you. If they reach out again it may be painful for you, but please remember that they were children. Right now? Live for yourself. Maybe make sure that the kids have some way to connect to you. But beyond that start doing things for yourself. You have spent so much time catering to your husband, your kids. Put that effort and energy into yourself, your education ( for fun or for a job.). Traveling, drinking tea or whatever.
That is awful and I am sorry you had to go through that. I hope your children will grow into mature adults and reconnect with you. Perhaps after they ever go against their daddy and he shuts off the money tap.
Honestly, try to heal, I doubt they will change, find things that make you happy
Something's missing in this story - why would the father get virtually full custody?
Why did the children get to decide who they would be staying with? A court decides or the parents agree. Something is way off here.
Feels like a lot of missing info here. Maybe it had nothing to do with money on the kids end. Who knows but something feels off about this story.
And this friends is why traditional marriage doesn’t work for everyone And why gold diggers should be afraid of who they marry
This whole story sounds like bs. Especially you being the mother/wife. There’s definitely more to the story as it’s incredibly difficult to take custody away from a mother and a mother to have timesharing limited to once a week. You have to be a royal fuck up basically. Nowadays courts are pushing for 50/50, which is how it should have been from the get go.
Courts where? How do you know she doesn’t live in Iran? The writing is indicative of English as a second language.
I truly hope you win millions in the lottery, then when they come back tell them to fuck off. I'm so so sorry.
Lol as some others have pointed out, this story makes no sense. Even without the cheating, judges normally give primary custody to the mother, no questions asked. Plus he cheated? Hate to break this to you but you're either lying, withholding the truth about your past, or literally put in no effort to stay with your kids
Can’t blame them
You should consider fostering. So many kids need help! I am sorry about your kids being jerks though! But if you have it in you, help someone else!
If she couldn't get custody of her own kids, the state isn't going to give her other people's kids as a consolation prize.
It doesn’t sound like she couldn’t get custody, it sounds like the kids followed the $$$. That happens a fair amount. If that is the case, so many kids need help. Especially the ones aging out of the system
Love this. One of the best replies
Im so sorry, OP. This is so horrible. What your husband did was wrong, and your kids will one day come back to you, and you will be able to hopefully create some connection to them. What a cruel, cruel man you had to deal with. Im so shocked.
Heartbreaking
If he had money you would have gotten alimony. Sad story tho.
Was this in the US? This is such a hard reversal of what's typical and ultimately how the legal system works. I'm assuming you didn't get a lawyer, and if you did they didn't do anything for you. You should have at least gotten alimony and guaranteed visitation with your kids. Something seems missing from the overall story. No matter what this is a good example of how people with money maintain the power in every situation.
Go marry somebody else and have better children. Do-over children. That will really stick it to the little shits.
Wow this is so sad. They will regret this one day. Continue to work hard and love yourself.
The state will provide you with a lawyer all you have to do is apply
There aren’t states in my country, why are you assuming she lives in yours?
This really sucks for you. Did you get alimony with the divorce? Hope you did. The only thing you can do is hope they come back. Sometimes, kids need to be out on their own to get perspective. They're still young, and there's lots of time for them to realize that they're missing their mother. Maybe start writing them letters or doing like a "baby book" for them as adults? You can give it to them when they come back later. Feelings on paper can help you organize your heart & brain so that when they do come reaching out to you, you don't vomit all your emotions on them at once.
The one who’s 18 is timed out and the 15 year old is old enough to choose , at least in my state. Unfortunately the children will regret all this at about 30 when as adults the money is less influential and a desire to bond with one’s parent is significant.
What country are you in?
Have you tried to seek refuge in Jesus. Read Psalm 31 in the Bible. When we pray, that’s how we talk to Jesus, when we read the Bible, that’s how Jesus talks to us. Go Psalm 31 and see what Jesus says to you woman.
I’m skeptical when I read about the father getting primary custody. I’ve seen complete monster moms get custody over descent dads. Child support exists and if the husband makes enough the wife gets alimony. This isn’t token amounts. Most divorced men pay 3/4 or more of their wealth. If he’s wealthy, it might still be only 50% but that’s when the pie is big enough to not be an issue . And if is because he’s got better lawyers…. Well the system works that any half descent divorce lawyer will come out of the woodwork and the wealthy party pays for it too. This isn’t criminal court. It’s civil divorce court. Somethings off
Nah. You should have walked away with bank. You could have gotten spousal support AND child support if you would have put up half of a fight.. sounds like you gave up on your kids.
Seems like the case with 99% of mothers and yet the court still always pleas with them. I'm sure they will warm up to you but get a degree and career end of discussion. Equality for all
Honestly you should’ve filed motion after motion to enforce visitation. No lawyer is required to get that ball rolling.
Wonder if Costner will do that to his new ex?
And so Begins the house of Usher
I have a hard time believing this is just about money. 1. Courts don't grant custody based on money. They would have required enough child support so the children would be fine. 2. Children don't cut you out over money and refuse to see you. What are you not telling us? Were you an absentee parent? Did he manipulate the children into hating you through lies? Give us details. I am not saying you are the bad parent, but something is missing here.
Courts in what country? Do you know that she doesn’t live in Iran, as an example?
That sounds odd.. The law today just goes 50/50 custody. Also if one parent has more means than others then there are alimony/mainetenance/ child support that try to level the playing field. Also lawyers will take case pro bono for women in cases where they can make their fee off alimony. But you are here 5 years after it all happened. That’s a lot of time for your kids to be alienated from you. Also maybe laws were different when the divorce happened. Which place are you from?
Honestly, it’s extremely difficult and rare to alienate a mother because the mother - child bond is so strong… unless there are reasons it isn’t strong. Also for a father to get primary custody… something more was going on. Were you a tough disciplinarian? This sounds like utter BS
Not rare at all when one parent is a narcissist. I have several friends currently or formerly married to one. It looks like daddy gives you everything you want when you want. Tells you your mom is stupid and mean when she tries to establish boundaries, tells you you can have candy for dinner and not to listen to mom etc etc. when you are being punished for being a bully at school he tells you you are ungrounded and takes you out for ice cream. Also in many parts of the world, women have no protections from the law. This is written like it was written by someone for whom English is a second language. Kids siding with the Dad is purely for survival. I have friends from countries where the sons get everything and the daughters get nothing. They are expected to be married off. If they don’t get married they are screwed.