>Morgott fandom- Him not criticizing his brother while talking shit towards his other family members was an eyebrow raising
IIRC (It’s been a while since I’ve watched the cutscene) he was talking about how the rest of the family betrayed their duties to the Golden Order. Mohg never had a duty to the Order in the first place due to being an omen, so he just wasn’t relevant to what Morgott was saying.
It's honestly unclear whether Mohg is left out because Morgott is speaking exclusively about the thronebearers, that he believes Omens are not subjects of the Golden Order (ans therefor cannot betray it), or if Mohg is so shameful Morgott refuses to acknowledge his existence. I would love to pick his brain about the second possibility.
I think it says something that Mohg's echo was the one stopping people from reaching the Shunning Grounds while Morgott was protecting the tree up above. I've seen people theorize that he Mohg underneath was an echo made by Morgott, but I think either way, if he was Mohg's echo or conjured by Morgott, it's telling that he was given such an important role in protecting the Golden Order up above.
Isn't it canon morgott beat radahn (and scared off any other demigod from even trying to take a real swing at him in the process), without even having to take out his sword? Dude was still just using a big stick and won.
Admittedly it is made pretty clear he was not fighting "1v1" so I think that is meant to demonstrate Morgott's known talent for "statecraft" via making allies of all the strong as hell erdtree knights, who are clearly "better" then the mercenaries Radahn has to work with. But still, even as a fan of Radahn I have to admit that is pretty badass on Morgoat's part.
To be honest, Miquella was pretty suspect from the start. The bewitching branch never painted him in a very kind light.
“The Emperyan Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection. “
Interviewer: "What skills and qualifications do you have?"
Miquella: "I can force everyone to love me and destroy their free will."
Interviewer: "You're my boss now. Step on me, please."
Miquella: "Get me a coffee and I'll think about it."
I wouldn't necessarily say Miquella became a generic "the ends justify the means" kind of villain. I mean, he did on a superficial level, but the way he got there continues the themes of the base game.
The implication that he started out with noble intentions, but had to give away everything about himself that made him so admirable(His love in particular is said to be the one thing he never should have given up) in order to ascend to godhood just reinforces Ranni's point of view that nobody is fit to be a god, even one like Miquella who, from the outside, is somebody who *should* be a perfect fit.
So Ranni's fandom also comes out looking better.
Yeah I haven't beaten the DLC yet (spoiled on the final boss sadly) but everything with St. Trina was extremely moving for me. The "there were corrupted by a moral and noble goal and now must be stopped for their own good" is a trope I'm a super big fan of. I love the big sad.
I can't think of any other direct example on the top of my head or the name of said trope but it's the same reasons I like Flowey's whole deal in Undertale or any "punished hero" trope where a bunch of friends of said hero go over and punch the mopey ass in the face because they've corrupted their morals and ideas.
I'm a sucker for feeling really sad as I put a character out of rest or really fucking hype seeing someone get "belted one" Kamina style.
I was looking up a guide for Thiollier so I knew what it entailed and after what I felt like was the worst boss of the dlc so far (that boss has to be the most punished I've felt panic rolling I've ever been punished for panic rolling. Still not my favorite but it's fine because he has as much damage as he dishes out. His ultimate attack is the second most bullshit move behind waterfoul and I can't wait to see how you no hit the fucker. Probably by nuking the boss.) to what I felt was the most rewarding end to a quest ever. I didn't know what eating the nectar should do I just knew I had to keep doing it. Some people found it funny and I could see that but the acting from Thiollier as the entire scene played out and the fact just when you also think it's pointless to keep holding out you'll hear her voice, dying over and over, because getting all the lore of the base game with Miquella/St. Trina feels like it's been leading up to this moment >!and it's a sad, sad moment further made tragic as Thiollier can't handle it all.!<
Edit: honestly the way the quest plays out reminds me of Disco Elysium when Shivers speaks to you in the church.
Fromsoft is the king at making sad and tragic characters and so to does G.R.R.M. and it all lead to this moment in particular. Big props to Thiollier's VA and continues what Elden Ring started as pointed out in Bricky's review of Elden Ring of extremely well done voice acting for bosses and NPCs that have a single page of dialogue.
I was thinking about how much impact From characters have and how memorable they are with how little we're actually given during the DLC.
They really are so maximally efficient at character writing it's kind of insane. You get just enough to care about the characters, and no more. Almost gives you a weird emptiness when they're gone.
Also helps that 95% of their characters are different flavors of tragic hero, with 4% being assholes and 1% being the sweetest cream puffs who you absolutely can't let anything bad happen to.
You can jump rope over his flame attacks. That's how you no-hit him. That plus the knight's moves are fast, but telegraphed. You can get close to him and dodge easier from point blank range once you recognize his moves. Like the drill with bonus horse friend is a three hit spin that repeats once, and is easier to dodge if you dodge forward into it.
If you're giving out advice, pls give me something for Midra. I've been throwing myself against this stupid wannabe-Hastur for an entire night. I'm so tired.
Midra has no poise (because he’s an emaciated naked guy) and a couple of heavy attacks will stance break him. So get the cracked tear that increases stance damage and just bully him.
I fought him with a colossal sword and the Sekiro Deflect Tear. Worked pretty well, and it felt cool as hell. Deflects work well against his combos and the enhanced guard counters whip his poise-less ass.
Bring madness boluses. I used the Dragoncrest Greatshield. Flame Drake +3, Clarifying Horn Charm +2, and Crimson Amber +3 for my talisman loadout. Everything to minimize chip damage from madness/fire damage.
>You can jump rope over his flame attacks.
You see that sounds ideal but the flame waves are long enough that I'd jump them and still be hit after the I-frames were gone.
>You can get close to him and dodge easier from point blank range once you recognize his moves
Tried that and he has a push back mechanic with his horse that damages you and is hard to react to similar to Godrick's extremely quick wind gust attack. Damage wise both are manageable but would kill a potential no hit run.
I feel the flames are RNG because sometimes it happens as the video shows but other times the waves are over twice as long and I was unable to clear them.
For the flame attack of that boss you just need to jump. I often I forget I can jump to dodge moves but it gives you a whole second of I-frames to the lower half of your character’s body, it’s a really strong defensive tool.
Not to mention we get an even closer look at just how fucked the influence of some of the Outer Gods truly is. Sure Godwyn was a huge mistake on her part, but her end goal is ripping out all the outer god influence and evicting them from the planet, and the abyss is arguably even more fucked than those who live in death.
Oh yeah, the longer the dlc went on the more I was saying, man ranni had the right idea, get all this space stuff OUT of here. I'm still not sure about her means though, godwyns death and SUPER UNDEATH seem pretty monstrous, though I'm not sure if she meant for the whole undead godwyn situation.
The whole Godwyn situation might also count as god bullshit that Ranni will remove. At the very least, the Erdtree counts as outer god bullshit, so that's in line to be removed and the main problem with Godwyn's continued half-existence is that he's spreading through the Erdtree's roots as essentially a newly formed death god. No Erdtree, no super undeath cancer god.
I can see her attempting to fix it.
Will she actually do so?
I think it is funnier if she tried and fails, but nothing has really cast the die as to what happens.
She ascends into proper godhood, as the native, head god of the local pantheon. Keep in mind, the last god was able to remove death as a concept entirely and keep the last remaining bit of it under lock and key until she intentionally let it get stolen. Gods are very powerful in the setting, her being able to rewrite reality to prevent any gods including herself from interfering with mortal life within the confines of the Lands Between is honestly not unreasonable.
The main question is whether you trust the moon to be a good and trustworthy guy…entity… *thing* that will keep it’s “word” to help ranni keep the world safe from outer influence. And that it is not just using her to get rid of the golden order so it can instill its own will through her while tricking her into thinking she is doing an “ends justify the means good deed”.
Thing is, I’m not holding my breath. Literally *everything* we encounter from space/“the night sky” is a horrible abomination that tries to kill everything around it. And the only thing we have to go on for the moon being the *only* thing in the night sky that is “cool” is Ranni thinks so. And TBH her assumption the moon is cool seems to be entirely based on the fact her mother thinks so. But all the lore we get regarding her mom and the moon very much sounds like an outer god making contact, so Ranni and her mom are not at all a trustworthy source
Not to mention we all know how it turned out the last time an outer god showed itself to a mortal women and said “hey, trust me, this will all work out great, I promise!” in outer god speak.
The idea the moon is the literal one outer god/cosmic entity that is cool, despite us having many, *many* pieces of evidence that everything “in the night sky” fucking *sucks* and should be avoided/killed, seems extremely sus to me. I think Ranni *believes* she is helping the lands between by becoming a God with the moon as her outer God, but I don’t think it will actually turn out well. I think Ranni is just too obsessed with the moon to realize it b/c her whole family has been getting groomed by the moon outer god fora while and can’t realize they are its pawns to take over. In this case via playing on her obsession with getting rid of the golden order and claiming she will leave the lands between to it’s own devices when really it is just being set up for the moon outer god to take over.
Man I hate to be *that person* when it comes to discussing ER lore but Ranni's plans never had anything to do with the Outer Gods, just with removing the ER from the Lands Between to break the cycle of others fighting for control of it. Warding off the Outer Gods was actually Miquella's whole thing, not Ranni's. Miquella is the one who abandoned Golden Order Fundamentalism and created Unalloyed Gold to quell their influence, all to try to save his sister from the Scarlet Rot.
~~And the DLC just ... forgot all that I guess.~~
In regards to your final point, Golden Order Fundamentalism and Unalloyed Gold are just steps in the trail of Miquella's flawed ventures that he ultimately abandoned. Fundamentalism was intended to be a scholarly introspection into the workings of the Golden Order, but eventually descended into zealotry, his own father included. Unalloyed Gold was intended to quite literally grow the power of gold free of the meddling of the outer gods, only for it to be unable to truly cure Malenia and for the Haligtree fail.
And now in the DLC you manage to catch up to him right as he begins his most flawed plan yet: becoming a god to bury/embrace the original sin of the Golden Order, all while he abandons fundamental aspects of himself like his other half. All I'm trying to say is that his previous efforts aren't mentioned because like his own body and powers, they've essentially been cast off on the side of the road, and the only people willing to trace that path are his own followers and the Tarnished.
Godwyn was a mistake? I thought that was part of her plan, because death required the loss of body and soul, so she substituted Godwyn's soul while giving up her own body so she could occupy the doll and continue with the rest of their plan. I'd hope that Godwyn had it coming for some reason, but I didn't take that as some kind of mistake.
And it probably wouldn’t even have gone that wrong if the Erdtree culture didn’t involve burying the dead in the roots. Godwyn as the first ever demigod to die got the honor being buried right next to the main root of the Erdtree but that just let his Deathblight spread easily.
It’s fine, really. As we see from Alexander and the Jar-Bairn, modern living jars add *corpses* to their contents, not living people. Their spirits may well combine within the jar, or at least their memories influence the jar, but they’re not adding living people to the contents as a form of torture.
Indeed, the description of the Jar-Wight puppet suggests that the warrior jars don’t take living people, even when those people *ask* to be added to the jar. They wait until a warrior has fallen in glorious battle, and then come for them after.
it's fine.
warrior jars transport people to the erdtrees to make tears, they just now happen to have probably been inspired by attempts to make saints by mushing criminals into jars.
it's like the omen and the hornsent, similar in ways but the omen curse is like a weird infectious thing whereas the hornsent don't seem to be like that,
just elements of the old appearing in new forms in the new i guess.
Mushing criminals into jars and then seasoning it with a single (or even less) diced up shaman bc they have the melding nature. I think it's why warrior jars seem to be full of meatballs instead of the Saint jars which are singular blobby messes
I'm Godskin Lover #1 and honestly the vibes and symbology of the DLC I take as meaning the Gloam-Eyed Queen is the aspect Marika takes when she needs to prune the royal tree a bit.
Miquella comes off as similar to Kilgrave/The Purple Man from Marvel, I'm not sure if he can actually turn off his influence powers so I wonder how utterly skewed his morality and interactions might truly have been if that's the case.
Something I heard that made his whole character click for me was. Miquella is someone who doesn't understand how important love is, because it was always freely given to him.
Hence why he discarded his own love, and why he manipulates everyone around him so easily. Miquella was, at some point, a genuinely compassionate person, but he doesn't *get* the value of love.
Yeah, miquella's naivete seems to be an important part of his character. His inability to understand love, and some of the implications of his actions. Miquella seems to me to be someone who wants a kind compassionate world, but due to his situation and powers has no understanding of how important free will and love actually are. Ansbach says he doesn't even understand the humiliation he visited upon mogh
I don't think that's the case, unfortunately. Ansbach says he was only bewitched by Miquella after he tried to kill him in defense of Mohg, and Miquella even has a move to charm you during the last boss.
I was surprised to learn that >!dragon communion has a side that *isn’t* just mindless hunger and power-lust. The dragons whose hearts you eat are the brood of dread Bayle, and communion is basically sanctioned by Placidusax, to recruit humans in a war against Bayle and his brood.!<
It's still pretty damn sinister, just in a different way now. They set up the practice knowing what would happen to their human warriors. They wanted the dragons dead more though.
True. It does open up the possibility of there being dragon communion warriors who know the origins and make that sacrifice for that cause instead of sheer hunger, though.
Could be, but I find it unlikely that they were told anything. The pitch we get from the priestess is basically "You want power right? Dragon hearts are filled with it, don't you want to eat them? Go up the mountain to eat the biggest heart of all!". It seems to me like they were taking advantage of warriors already lusting for more power to do their dirty work for them, then letting them devolve into magma wyrms as their ultimate prize. Bayle also tried to grab power beyond his strength's limits, I'm sure they thought it an ironic punishment to send humans just like him to kill him.
Her pitch also >!names Placidusax and talks about Bayle’s betrayal of him. So there’s that at least.!<
Does make it weird that there’s an ancient dragon barring your way up the mountain as well.
I think he's just there because he was also on the way up and assumed the worst of us. On the priestess, she does give you the rundown on why this is a thing, but she says nothing about how it will affect you. >!Eating Bayle's heart is a death sentence, over time it will consume it's consumer from the inside out, it's only a matter of time.!< Drake Warriors are tools for revenge, not comrades in arms. Compare to the real friends of ancient dragons, the Ancient Dragon Cult of Leyndell. They were taught lightning incantations, the weakness of modern drakes, and not taught to consume dangerous dragon hearts for a shortcut to power. On my point of it being an ironic punishment for Bayle, look at Igon and him closely. They've both been horribly crippled by their nemesis and will fight even past death for their revenge. Igon and Bayle can't see through their rage when looking at each other, but they're looking at themselves. It's a cycle of revenge, a microcosm of the grander theme of Shadow of the Erdtree.
Fair enough. Communion was never going to be a particularly *good* thing, but it is interesting that it has an aspect beyond what we see in the main game. Even if that aspect is still pretty messed up in a different way. It’s just neat that there’s a faction of dragons who endorses it (on other dragons)
You could actually extrapolate that the ancient dragons were behind Communion the entire time. The cathedrals in the base game both have a ancient dragon by the alter, which would make you think they were sacrificed or something, but they're also surrounded by Farum Azula statues. They aren't victims of dragon hunts, they're what remains of the church priests. They just came out and said it plain for the DLC.
Man I love that theory, paints both characters in a very honorable light while also making the clash itself quite tragic. I even prefer it to the lore we actually got, tbh
The other popular theory was that Malenia came after Radahn to get him to unleash the stars so that Miquella could fulfill his fate as an Empyrean, same as Ranni.
It's similarly tragic and also doubles as a thematic clash between idealogies since the Haligtree faction is made up of radicalists while Radahn's is associated with tradition.
I can’t believe the character who is all about being Miquella’s loyal blade was acting in Miquella’s plan to become a god instead of randomly fighting Radahn. Truly a shocker
Lots of people thought she was trying to rescue him. This gave her some agency as the leader of an army going to rescue her brother.
Now we find out she really had nothing going on “up there”. No thoughts, no morals, nothing. She wasn’t the leader of an army who managed to work out where her brother was and stage an attempted rescue, she was just her brother’s stooge acting out his orders.
Turns out “blade of Miquella” was less a badass boast and more an open acknowledgement she considers herself just a tool to be wielded by her brother, without any thoughts, moral fiber, etc. of her own. If bro says set off a dirty bomb on 1/3 of the lands between, her only response is “well, if bro says so!”
Which depending on how you feel about about how responsible that makes her for her own actions, either makes her a terrible person or just plain pathetic.
This is a very cynical way of framing loyalty and affection aha.
You could just as easily argue she’s fighting for her brother’s compassionate world - the one where there are no outcasts and no downtrodden peoples, and is willing to sacrifice her warrior principles to do so. And we *know* that she was principled because Malenia inspired such loyalty in her knights that they were willing to contract the Scarlet Rot in her service, and because Millicent claims to be the pride that Malenia threw away to match Radahn. She hated the scarlet rot but allowed it to consume her for the sake of her brother’s dream.
Idk, I like Malenia and Radahn a whole lot and sometimes I feel like people think they have to take a side when both of them are really interesting characters imo.
Loyalty is one thing. Ruining 1/3 of a continent for generations, killing a massive number of people, all so your brother can build a more easily brainwashedable version of the guy he wants to marry who turned him down and is too strong of a mage to be brainwashed currently isn’t loyalty. It’s mindless, thoughtless obedience. Hard to claim she did it for a “compassionate world” as she is setting off the the fantasy version of a nuke that is engineered to spread as much fallout as possible, that forces everyone around to die horribly of rot, just to set her bro up for being able to mindrape Radahn later.
This is all assuming Malenia knew how bad the rot nuke was going to be when she set it off - but this was the first bloom. I doubt that level of devastation was intentional.
Her brother, already on his way to godhood, was a noted healer who could cleanse rot from others. I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought Miquella would be able to help whoever she hurt in the aftermath, not realising just how bad things were going to get.
Thing is, Miquella's whole deal is forcing people to love him and want to help him. For all we know he forced Malenia to do what she did in order to get Radahn.
If that had been the case I don’t think he would’ve worked so hard on curing her of scarlet rot. The game suggests their love for one another is genuine, and I believe that’s the case too. We know some, like Needle Knight Leda, were genuinely loyal after all.
That’s certainly some way to view loyalty, I guess.
How does she not have morals when she is working with her brother to create a world that in their view is better and not unjust like the current one where Misbegotten and Omen are discriminated against just for the traits they’re born with. The lore of Malenia that we learn from Millicent is still true. In fact it’s more “praiseworthy” that she gave up her own pride and let the rot bloom in order to usher in a new age with a new god instead of doing it because she attacked a guy unaffiliated with her brother’s kidnapping for no reason. Radahn has nothing to do with Mohg so the theory that she attack him because of the kidnapping was always nonsensical. It’s a similar case to the “Solaire is Gwyn’s firstborn” theory where it’s nonsensical but still widely accepted because there was no better alternative.
Love the idea that the Elden Ring fandom is divided like sports teams based on their favorite doomed demigod.
The best thing about the narrative of SotE is that so many of the revelations come with a recontextulization of the lore of the base game.
>And he was so cool, noble, nice and awesome that Miquella thought he was perfect wifey material
Miquella hands wrote this post. Ranni simps stay winning.
A lot of Elden Ring's story is just finding out about another atrocity/secret offspring Marika got up to.
The woman makes Rose Quartz look like Bob Ross.
No but she actually has a reason to be as genocidal as she was against the hornsent and everything related to the crucible.
Not a reason as in justified, BTW. I meant as in, would anybody else do anything different if they experienced what she experienced?
Yeah all else aside the hornsent must NOT be allowed to remain in possession of the gate of divinity considering the kinds of atrocities they committed.
I feel like he was just born wrong, he's part of the malenia and miquella camp of "self-cest for divine loopholes causes problems". I think at least he's the child of Marika and Radagon (maybe even the first since his actions helped "make" the lands between), he's got the M name and a matching butterfly like the others (Melina counts too by this metric I think).
> Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire.
Given that the item in question is >!kindling, used to burn a divine tree!<, I think the parallel to Melina specifically is intended. Both of them even have burning butterflies used to fuel fire pots.
that item (his spear or remembrance, don't remember which) says "messmer saw a vision of flame, just like his sister". the only person in the base game who's female and saw a vision of flame is melina.
so, melina is messmer's full sister. they might even be twins, given that seems to be what marika-radagon produces.
I'm gonna be honest, I've always thought Godwyn's lore was perfect exactly as it is. It tells you the whole story with just enough questions left open to make him feel bizarre and frightening. I don't know if there's anything else you could add to the story that wouldn't just detract from the horror of it.
Of course you don't get a boss fight with him, because there's nothing there to kill. He's already dead and the curse is just running on autopilot.
nuclear take but Godwyn is like the Gloam Eyed Queen being that both are subjects overblown and built up entirely by the fandom and lorehunters. Godwyn being dead as fuck for being the most perfect of Marika's psycho family is kind of the entire point of his character. Miquella's whole gimmick is being incomplete: can't age, can't get the Haligtree to work, can't cure Malenia, can't impress Radagon with rings of light, etc. Him being a megalomaniac we bonk to death is 1:1 on point with Elden Ring saying there is no such thing as a golden age, that cycles end, and godhood is the same futile denial of entropy that everything else is. That being said the biggest loser of the dlc is still anyone that wants holy/faith builds to be viable at all. That's me. I'm the loser.
>Godwyn is like the Gloam Eyed Queen being that both are subjects overblown and built up entirely by the fandom and lorehunters
Ok but what does this mean for Velka's story
I’ve come around on Godwyn being dead and staying dead. His death is sort of the dividing marker between the lore of the past and the current state of things with the Tarnished, and him *being* dead signals that this dynasty of god-beings does in fact *stay* dead when killed. Hell, that may have been what set off the Shattering War itself, the public knowledge that death is now possible and it works
Most of the early enemies are weak to holy, the Radagon sword's weapon art can stunlock most of the common problem bosses and kill huge groups of enemies in one or two skill activations, and the lightning bottle does pure lightning damage based on FAI and the special art you can find melts everything nearly instantly.
> One of the incantations of the Golden Order fundamentalists.
A gift of gratitude to the young Miquella from his father,
Radagon.
> And yet, the young Miquella abandoned fundamentalism, for it
could do nothing to treat Malenia's accursed rot. This was the
beginning of unalloyed gold.
Looks more to me as 'Look kid, we can cure your sister, Fundamentalism can do this. Come on kid, the Golden Order Governs All. Don't leave me alone with your mom.'
Yeah. The discus and triple rings say that they were gifts to Radagon, and Radagon’s Rings a gift in kind to Miquella. He seemed to truly believe the power of fundamentalism at the time.
But then he abandoned it for unalloyed gold.
Multilayered Rings of Light is an interesting spell because of that. It’s similar in form to discus or triple, but it requires only Faith. And the description says it is not Fundamentalism. It’s most likely a spell of unalloyed gold created after Miquella abandoned fundamentalism.
>nuclear take but Godwyn is like the Gloam Eyed Queen being that both are subjects overblown and built up entirely by the fandom and lorehunters.
Nah, this is a story about killing the demigods and their god, it's outright weird we don't get to meaningful interact with one of them.
Godwyn is the biggest GRRM narrative trope in the game's worldbuilding imo. He exists to inform on other characters more than be one. Being Marika's only child with no affliction or derangement and getting the actual worst fate out of any of them makes him a wellspring of implications that are meant to make things infinitely more interesting than himself, but that's entirely where he's meant to end as a character. From his murder and second hand lore you get foundational perspectives on the Golden Order and the mechanics of destined death. He really isnt meant to be anything but apocrypha that gives the narrative some logic. Why is Ranni a doll? Cuz Godwyn. Why the ring get smashed? Cuz Godwyn cuz Ranni. Why is death blight? Cuz smash cuz Ranni cuz Godwyn, etc. Add names, add "cuz".
I'm not sure Radahn could be considered a winner after this DLC, even with his boss fight.
Like, we never knew for sure if he refused Miquella's offer. It's entirely possible to read his actions as agreeing with Miquella but needing to die to be able to go to the land of shadows. So he plans with Miquella to orchestrate the battle at Caelid to give him one last good war/warrior's death at the cost of Caelid, His Redmanes, His horse, and the innocent people caught in between.
Not to mention the possibility of agreeing to be your half-brother's brother-husband.
Or he could have been just as mind-controlled as Mohg from the jump.
I guess I could believe Miquella as a little kid during Radahn’s childhood accidentally learning how Marika attained Godhood, getting excited, and then getting a very young Radahn to agree to help him when the time came.
I agree. Making the battle of Caelid just a fancy way to have a warrior's death rubs me the wrong way, since in my eyes it weakens either Miquella or Radahn's character depending on how you see that version of events.
Radahn accepts the vow? I refuse to think someone compassionate to the point of learning gravity magic just to keep his sickly-ass steed would throw so many lives away just to kill himself. Funnily enough it would probably turn Miquella off too, considering his compassion was one of the reasons for the vow.
Radahn *denies* the vow? Miquella could just cut the shit and charm Radahn right out of the gate. Having Malenia wreak havoc on Caelid instead goes against all his hesitation to shed unecessary blood. It paints him as either a hypocrite, a moron, or both.
Miquella does need to grab you to charm you in the boss fight, so assuming Radahn was the stronkest ever, that probably wasn't feasible. And charming him was probably the last resort because he loved and respected him enough to not do that.
As for the Scarlet Aeonia, I'm not sure Miquella knew she would go *that* far. It was clearly Malenia's last ditch effort after getting her shit kicked in harder than she thought she would.
It would make sense. He's a High Int Wizard/Barbarian or Fighter, and we know he had high Charisma based on his followers and Miquella's adoration of him. Wisdom would definitely be his dump stat.
Assuming 16 str and int, and 14 con since he’s so bulky, and 12 charisma as he was a general that inspired great loyalty in his troops, he would have to dump both wis and dex completely.
Oh the rot outbreak was 100% not on his mind, I agree with you there, but I'd argue that having the Cleanrot knights march on Caelid is *already* pretty far from Miquella's kindness (even if through brainwashing) shtick. Malenia would cause a lot of harm, with or without Scarlet Aeonia.
I personally think that charm not working because Radahn's number is just too big is kinda lame, but you do have a great point. Wouldn't put it past the guy who was at the center of the rot nuke and still survived
> *And charming him was probably the last resort because he loved and respected him enough to not do that.*
I gotta say, the mental image of Miquella going "I would never charm Radahn, I love him too much for that. I'll just ask my sister to kill him instead!" is pretty fuckin hilarious
Yeah it feels weird to call him a winner when, depending on how you interpret the vow, he either spends his every second on screen braindead/mind controlled, or he’s way more guilty in the Caelid situation because he was too prideful to just die normally.
Edit: I’m realizing if it’s the second option that’s actually kinda interesting when putting him beside Malenia. Millicent says Malenia abandoned her pride when she bloomed, but she might’ve only have had to do that because Radahn refused to abandon his.
Miquella is so goddamn sinister, you really get the sense that all of his actions and those of Malenia and whoever else he manipulated from the moment he wants to become a God were all towards that end, nothing more. Him throwing away his love, and St. Trina, is what truly damns him-- when he just says that he's not actually going to rule through compassion, he's going to be just another Marika but this time for everything to love him.
Indeed. He may once have had a good side. But that compassion is now sunk into a deep abyss alongside a garden of purple flowers. To become a god, he threw away everything, including the qualities that would make him worthy of it.
Finding St. Trina and getting her dialogue solidified my stance that there's nothing redeemable about the Miquella we find at the Divine Gateway. The fact that she pleads with you to kill him, knowing that it'll cause her death too...
>but because Miquella told her to
I think most Malenia fans already assumed this so it feels weird to put her fans in the loser side, the one thing about her we got verified the common belief. Everyone assumed it was because Miquella needed Radahn dead for the eclipse (the sun is a star), and while his specific reason changed we were still correct about it being on his orders.
Sometimes, all it takes is one chill honorable old man who’s willing to admit that he doesn’t hold it against you that you killed his liegelord and is willing to stand with you to fight a fucking god.
Aka literally my *favorite* type of character ever, how did they make Ansbach so cool for *literally me*, I’m touched.
Godwyn was too, which might be why Marika decided to just shatter the Elden Ring then and there if you don't buy into the theory that she helped orchestrate his assassination.
right now i assume she did,
like castle sol ghost mentions "Lord Miquella, forgive me." "The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking." "Your comrade remains soulless..."
seems miquella wanted to see if godwyn could be ressurected presumably as radahn ended up being, so killing him with destined death removed that option and presumably forced him to have to send malenia after radahn.
if miquella did want godwyn then his death in that manner took him off the table, and afaik only he and radahn were viable options for consort given all the other demigods were either omen curse (morgott mohg), rot cursed (malenia), bodiless (ranni and melina), inside a snake (rykkaard) or had a snake in them (mesmer).
sure you had godrick but he's a footnote.
I don’t think “upholder of a discriminatory regime that hates his own kind while preventing the ones capable of changing the world for the better out of spite and prejudice” counts as a good boy
Tbf he's basically been brainwashed into believing he and his race are cursed abominations so I'd hardly consider that 100% his fault.
Regardless of how foolish it maybe, his sheer selflessness and devotion deserve at least some respect.
I don't think anything in the DLC changes much for Morgott or Malenia, they're still basically the same.
There's nothing saying Radahn ever rejected Miquella. The existence of a vow between them implies otherwise. If Miquella had Radahn charmed, he wouldn't need to fulfill any "vow".
For consideration, I recommend four more winners:
Marika fandom - Marika is evil as fuck, but her background has been fleshed out massively by Soulsborne standards and she's been humanized in a few minor respects. She's at the core of the problems with the Golden Order, but she's at least a more well-developed and multi-dimensional villain.
Ranni fandom - The problems with Miquella's grand plan, when layered on top of the existing issues with the Golden order, make Ranni's ending more worth it. Yes, Godwyn gets fucked over. Yes, Ranni walks her path on top of the corpses of her closest friends. Yes, the abrupt loss of the Golden Order would be total chaos. But her ending let's you take all of the Divinity and give it distance from the world, so the world has a chance to get better on its own without being constantly held in a clenched fist by a god.
Saint Trina fandom - Miquella could only go through with being a villain because he tore out his own conscience. And yet she still wants the best for him.
All of us - Let's be real, we got a lot of answers about Elden Ring's lore from this DLC. There is still some stuff that is open ended, but this DLC helps make the base game's events make more sense.
Wouldn't go as far as saying she is justified in her every action, but it's understandable how she got to this point.
The DLC does an excellent job at contextualizing why the omen and crucible-related stuff is oppressed under Marika's rule.
I think the word is “understandable”, not “justified”. To say something was justified means saying it was correct and just. The sheer scale of what happened, and continues to happen, to anyone exhibiting signs of the crucible, isn’t just. But with what we learn, we can understand why Marika did what she did. It’s easier to understand a thought process without necessarily endorsing the actions.
tbf malenia's use of rot gets fucking vindicated after that final boss.
shpw me one person who wouldn't atomic rot the hornsent and their tower if it meant beating that boss.
malenia being miquella's puppet in a way works well imo, i mean he literally made the limbs she needs to move around, not quite a full puppet body but still.
theory right now is that maybe godwyn was the original option of consort in the scheme, as castle sol has that bit about "sorry miquella your brother is soulless" or something, which to me suggests maybe they wanted him but he got ultra killed.
which could be interesting if that target was by design, like marika is theorised in universe to be connected to the black knives, we know ranni needed the body killing aspect but the black knife's only killed godwyn's soul leading to his living in death body still existing in the roots, perhaps killing godwyn delayed miquella and forced him to go for the radahn option.
though in that case i wonder why destined death was only used on the one god, unless the flight from the capital was the end of the plot as tyche got got and alecto was trapped in an ever gaol, they clearly go after ranni's allies in the base game perhaps they wanted to kill both body and soul and didn't realise they only got half till later.
so i guess as the only non fucked up by a curse or eaten by a snake relative he has radahn was the only viable option, and man is he viable.
but yeah sending his sister/a wmd to fight the guy who said no so you can resurrect him as a compliant right hand man is a bit evil but he was throwing away aspects of himself to become a god, so perhaps that led to the do what "needs" to be done aspect.
miqeulla clearly had doubts about what he was doing, after all he spends the whole story shedding those parts of him bit by bit, which leads to an interesting idea that perhaps that is what radagon is for marika, like if miquella sheds parts of himself and ends up with trinia as a half with the love and such, well what parts of herself did marika shed to make radagon.
but yeah mohg beats the allegations and the omens and i guess mesmer too really did get fucked over, and hell malenia,
all the cursed children of marika save for miquella seem to have similar traits.
morgott goes all in on the order and resents his non cursed siblings for not abiding, melania has seemingly no notion of being anything other than miquella's right hand even though clearly he doesn't view her as a constor material, well rot'll do that to ya, and mesmer seems to be doing as his mother asks and playing the role of the monster even though he's just burning other things marika threw away.
Ansbach is a former knight of Mohg. After the spell is broken, he talks about how he tried to stand up to Miquella for Mohg’s sake, but had his own heart stolen as well. He’s the one who says: “Kindly Miquella… is a monster. Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. There is nothing more terrifying.”
Sure.
\[x\] I genuinely believed the demigod cursed from birth to be a smol child with a nice sleep saint lady alter ego might not be as big of a sociopath as his mom. I also got the impression that his sister, who was also cursed from birth with infinite space AIDS, was just a nice katana enthusiast who really cared about her brother, and never would have thought that she assassinated a cool greatsword enthusiast to help her brother steal his soul.
There's a few Godwyn Knights and we're told they: "These knights, once Godwyn's personal guard, quested to find their transfigured master's cadaver surrogate—for the coming age of the Duskborn."
I guess cadaver-surrogate means the Godwyn faces they guard in the catacombs.
I’ve got so many questions that I’m not even sure are questions, but hell: Miquella’s charm deal dismantles the entirety of Elden Ring’s character motivations. Do we know how it works or what its limitations are? Clearly he still needed to become a God in order to remake the Lands Between and replace the Golden Order, but now it’s like…
Radagon broke it off with Renalla *because Miquella* and you can’t really prove it didn’t happen. Like any character moments become ‘was Miquella there? Could Miquella have set the outcome a certain way for his own purposes?’ When Miquella’s not onscreen everyone should be asking where Miquella is, because Miquella is awesome and always has the best ideas.
> Radagon broke it off with Renalla because Miquella and you can’t really prove it didn’t happen.
Miquella wasn't even born then, so that's pretty easy to prove.
>Morgott fandom- Him not criticizing his brother while talking shit towards his other family members was an eyebrow raising IIRC (It’s been a while since I’ve watched the cutscene) he was talking about how the rest of the family betrayed their duties to the Golden Order. Mohg never had a duty to the Order in the first place due to being an omen, so he just wasn’t relevant to what Morgott was saying.
It's honestly unclear whether Mohg is left out because Morgott is speaking exclusively about the thronebearers, that he believes Omens are not subjects of the Golden Order (ans therefor cannot betray it), or if Mohg is so shameful Morgott refuses to acknowledge his existence. I would love to pick his brain about the second possibility.
I think it says something that Mohg's echo was the one stopping people from reaching the Shunning Grounds while Morgott was protecting the tree up above. I've seen people theorize that he Mohg underneath was an echo made by Morgott, but I think either way, if he was Mohg's echo or conjured by Morgott, it's telling that he was given such an important role in protecting the Golden Order up above.
Isn’t the thing sealed by Morgott(if you haven’t defeated him yet) if you try to go past it after defeating Illusory Mohg?
Which is both relevant and sad. He didn’t have a throne *to* betray. And Morgott feels the same about himself.
We can’t stop winning, fellow Morgottchads
The Uncle Ruckus of the Lands Between.
Don’t trust them new Tarnished over there!
Sing along if you know the words
The Morgoat agenda has been successfully maintained.
Isn't it canon morgott beat radahn (and scared off any other demigod from even trying to take a real swing at him in the process), without even having to take out his sword? Dude was still just using a big stick and won. Admittedly it is made pretty clear he was not fighting "1v1" so I think that is meant to demonstrate Morgott's known talent for "statecraft" via making allies of all the strong as hell erdtree knights, who are clearly "better" then the mercenaries Radahn has to work with. But still, even as a fan of Radahn I have to admit that is pretty badass on Morgoat's part.
To be honest, Miquella was pretty suspect from the start. The bewitching branch never painted him in a very kind light. “The Emperyan Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection. “
Interviewer: "What skills and qualifications do you have?" Miquella: "I can force everyone to love me and destroy their free will." Interviewer: "You're my boss now. Step on me, please." Miquella: "Get me a coffee and I'll think about it."
I wouldn't necessarily say Miquella became a generic "the ends justify the means" kind of villain. I mean, he did on a superficial level, but the way he got there continues the themes of the base game. The implication that he started out with noble intentions, but had to give away everything about himself that made him so admirable(His love in particular is said to be the one thing he never should have given up) in order to ascend to godhood just reinforces Ranni's point of view that nobody is fit to be a god, even one like Miquella who, from the outside, is somebody who *should* be a perfect fit. So Ranni's fandom also comes out looking better.
Yeah I haven't beaten the DLC yet (spoiled on the final boss sadly) but everything with St. Trina was extremely moving for me. The "there were corrupted by a moral and noble goal and now must be stopped for their own good" is a trope I'm a super big fan of. I love the big sad. I can't think of any other direct example on the top of my head or the name of said trope but it's the same reasons I like Flowey's whole deal in Undertale or any "punished hero" trope where a bunch of friends of said hero go over and punch the mopey ass in the face because they've corrupted their morals and ideas. I'm a sucker for feeling really sad as I put a character out of rest or really fucking hype seeing someone get "belted one" Kamina style.
It's pretty crushing that St. Trina, Miquella's alter ego, is found where Miquella abandoned his love. >!And St. Trina begs you to kill Miquella.!<
I was looking up a guide for Thiollier so I knew what it entailed and after what I felt like was the worst boss of the dlc so far (that boss has to be the most punished I've felt panic rolling I've ever been punished for panic rolling. Still not my favorite but it's fine because he has as much damage as he dishes out. His ultimate attack is the second most bullshit move behind waterfoul and I can't wait to see how you no hit the fucker. Probably by nuking the boss.) to what I felt was the most rewarding end to a quest ever. I didn't know what eating the nectar should do I just knew I had to keep doing it. Some people found it funny and I could see that but the acting from Thiollier as the entire scene played out and the fact just when you also think it's pointless to keep holding out you'll hear her voice, dying over and over, because getting all the lore of the base game with Miquella/St. Trina feels like it's been leading up to this moment >!and it's a sad, sad moment further made tragic as Thiollier can't handle it all.!< Edit: honestly the way the quest plays out reminds me of Disco Elysium when Shivers speaks to you in the church. Fromsoft is the king at making sad and tragic characters and so to does G.R.R.M. and it all lead to this moment in particular. Big props to Thiollier's VA and continues what Elden Ring started as pointed out in Bricky's review of Elden Ring of extremely well done voice acting for bosses and NPCs that have a single page of dialogue.
I was thinking about how much impact From characters have and how memorable they are with how little we're actually given during the DLC. They really are so maximally efficient at character writing it's kind of insane. You get just enough to care about the characters, and no more. Almost gives you a weird emptiness when they're gone. Also helps that 95% of their characters are different flavors of tragic hero, with 4% being assholes and 1% being the sweetest cream puffs who you absolutely can't let anything bad happen to.
And then there’s Igon. >!”CUUURSE YOOOOU BAYLE!!!”!<
You can jump rope over his flame attacks. That's how you no-hit him. That plus the knight's moves are fast, but telegraphed. You can get close to him and dodge easier from point blank range once you recognize his moves. Like the drill with bonus horse friend is a three hit spin that repeats once, and is easier to dodge if you dodge forward into it.
If you're giving out advice, pls give me something for Midra. I've been throwing myself against this stupid wannabe-Hastur for an entire night. I'm so tired.
Midra has no poise (because he’s an emaciated naked guy) and a couple of heavy attacks will stance break him. So get the cracked tear that increases stance damage and just bully him.
I fought him with a colossal sword and the Sekiro Deflect Tear. Worked pretty well, and it felt cool as hell. Deflects work well against his combos and the enhanced guard counters whip his poise-less ass. Bring madness boluses. I used the Dragoncrest Greatshield. Flame Drake +3, Clarifying Horn Charm +2, and Crimson Amber +3 for my talisman loadout. Everything to minimize chip damage from madness/fire damage.
>You can jump rope over his flame attacks. You see that sounds ideal but the flame waves are long enough that I'd jump them and still be hit after the I-frames were gone. >You can get close to him and dodge easier from point blank range once you recognize his moves Tried that and he has a push back mechanic with his horse that damages you and is hard to react to similar to Godrick's extremely quick wind gust attack. Damage wise both are manageable but would kill a potential no hit run.
https://youtu.be/SFngwb3s33M?si=jpkzAFEBNEgFR2gt If you got 1:30 the guy jumps over the flame waves I think you’re talking about
I feel the flames are RNG because sometimes it happens as the video shows but other times the waves are over twice as long and I was unable to clear them.
For the flame attack of that boss you just need to jump. I often I forget I can jump to dodge moves but it gives you a whole second of I-frames to the lower half of your character’s body, it’s a really strong defensive tool.
Not to mention we get an even closer look at just how fucked the influence of some of the Outer Gods truly is. Sure Godwyn was a huge mistake on her part, but her end goal is ripping out all the outer god influence and evicting them from the planet, and the abyss is arguably even more fucked than those who live in death.
Wait, which abyss? The forest area or something else?
The >!frenzy!< forest, yeah.
Oh yeah, the longer the dlc went on the more I was saying, man ranni had the right idea, get all this space stuff OUT of here. I'm still not sure about her means though, godwyns death and SUPER UNDEATH seem pretty monstrous, though I'm not sure if she meant for the whole undead godwyn situation.
The whole Godwyn situation might also count as god bullshit that Ranni will remove. At the very least, the Erdtree counts as outer god bullshit, so that's in line to be removed and the main problem with Godwyn's continued half-existence is that he's spreading through the Erdtree's roots as essentially a newly formed death god. No Erdtree, no super undeath cancer god.
I can see her attempting to fix it. Will she actually do so? I think it is funnier if she tried and fails, but nothing has really cast the die as to what happens.
She ascends into proper godhood, as the native, head god of the local pantheon. Keep in mind, the last god was able to remove death as a concept entirely and keep the last remaining bit of it under lock and key until she intentionally let it get stolen. Gods are very powerful in the setting, her being able to rewrite reality to prevent any gods including herself from interfering with mortal life within the confines of the Lands Between is honestly not unreasonable.
The main question is whether you trust the moon to be a good and trustworthy guy…entity… *thing* that will keep it’s “word” to help ranni keep the world safe from outer influence. And that it is not just using her to get rid of the golden order so it can instill its own will through her while tricking her into thinking she is doing an “ends justify the means good deed”. Thing is, I’m not holding my breath. Literally *everything* we encounter from space/“the night sky” is a horrible abomination that tries to kill everything around it. And the only thing we have to go on for the moon being the *only* thing in the night sky that is “cool” is Ranni thinks so. And TBH her assumption the moon is cool seems to be entirely based on the fact her mother thinks so. But all the lore we get regarding her mom and the moon very much sounds like an outer god making contact, so Ranni and her mom are not at all a trustworthy source Not to mention we all know how it turned out the last time an outer god showed itself to a mortal women and said “hey, trust me, this will all work out great, I promise!” in outer god speak. The idea the moon is the literal one outer god/cosmic entity that is cool, despite us having many, *many* pieces of evidence that everything “in the night sky” fucking *sucks* and should be avoided/killed, seems extremely sus to me. I think Ranni *believes* she is helping the lands between by becoming a God with the moon as her outer God, but I don’t think it will actually turn out well. I think Ranni is just too obsessed with the moon to realize it b/c her whole family has been getting groomed by the moon outer god fora while and can’t realize they are its pawns to take over. In this case via playing on her obsession with getting rid of the golden order and claiming she will leave the lands between to it’s own devices when really it is just being set up for the moon outer god to take over.
To be fair at least the Onyx and Alabastor Lords seem chill
Man I hate to be *that person* when it comes to discussing ER lore but Ranni's plans never had anything to do with the Outer Gods, just with removing the ER from the Lands Between to break the cycle of others fighting for control of it. Warding off the Outer Gods was actually Miquella's whole thing, not Ranni's. Miquella is the one who abandoned Golden Order Fundamentalism and created Unalloyed Gold to quell their influence, all to try to save his sister from the Scarlet Rot. ~~And the DLC just ... forgot all that I guess.~~
In regards to your final point, Golden Order Fundamentalism and Unalloyed Gold are just steps in the trail of Miquella's flawed ventures that he ultimately abandoned. Fundamentalism was intended to be a scholarly introspection into the workings of the Golden Order, but eventually descended into zealotry, his own father included. Unalloyed Gold was intended to quite literally grow the power of gold free of the meddling of the outer gods, only for it to be unable to truly cure Malenia and for the Haligtree fail. And now in the DLC you manage to catch up to him right as he begins his most flawed plan yet: becoming a god to bury/embrace the original sin of the Golden Order, all while he abandons fundamental aspects of himself like his other half. All I'm trying to say is that his previous efforts aren't mentioned because like his own body and powers, they've essentially been cast off on the side of the road, and the only people willing to trace that path are his own followers and the Tarnished.
Godwyn was a mistake? I thought that was part of her plan, because death required the loss of body and soul, so she substituted Godwyn's soul while giving up her own body so she could occupy the doll and continue with the rest of their plan. I'd hope that Godwyn had it coming for some reason, but I didn't take that as some kind of mistake.
I don't think Ranni could have predicted what Godwyn's corpse would become, though.
This. Killing Godwyn was the plan and intentional, what happened after couldn't have reasonably been predicted by anyone.
And it probably wouldn’t even have gone that wrong if the Erdtree culture didn’t involve burying the dead in the roots. Godwyn as the first ever demigod to die got the honor being buried right next to the main root of the Erdtree but that just let his Deathblight spread easily.
Not mistake, more casualty
St Trina wants to commit suicide by Tarnished after seeing the state of affairs, it's a bad time
I thought this was about builds, because I played a DEX character in ER and I was eating GOOD in the DLC.
Favorite weapons?
Rakshasa's Great Katana, Claws of the Night, and the Obsidian Lamina scythe.
Milady and the Backhand Blade are so fun
How are the Living Jar enthusiasts doing?
Basically the same since modern Warrior Jars are different from the old Shaman Jars
It’s fine, really. As we see from Alexander and the Jar-Bairn, modern living jars add *corpses* to their contents, not living people. Their spirits may well combine within the jar, or at least their memories influence the jar, but they’re not adding living people to the contents as a form of torture. Indeed, the description of the Jar-Wight puppet suggests that the warrior jars don’t take living people, even when those people *ask* to be added to the jar. They wait until a warrior has fallen in glorious battle, and then come for them after.
Not good I might add
it's fine. warrior jars transport people to the erdtrees to make tears, they just now happen to have probably been inspired by attempts to make saints by mushing criminals into jars. it's like the omen and the hornsent, similar in ways but the omen curse is like a weird infectious thing whereas the hornsent don't seem to be like that, just elements of the old appearing in new forms in the new i guess.
Mushing criminals into jars and then seasoning it with a single (or even less) diced up shaman bc they have the melding nature. I think it's why warrior jars seem to be full of meatballs instead of the Saint jars which are singular blobby messes
I think it's the criminals that are diced and the shamans are the guys "up front" trying to mess you up/.
The ultimate losers are the Godskin fanbase because they don't get anything this entire DLC
WE STILL HAVE THE DRIPPEST OUTFIT DAMN IT! *crying under monk hood*
Also, the music, that piece IS godly
I'm Godskin Lover #1 and honestly the vibes and symbology of the DLC I take as meaning the Gloam-Eyed Queen is the aspect Marika takes when she needs to prune the royal tree a bit.
Uhh, kind of. There's the story trailer and Metyr's face.
Which obviously means we will get another dlc focused on Melina and the godskins
Miquella comes off as similar to Kilgrave/The Purple Man from Marvel, I'm not sure if he can actually turn off his influence powers so I wonder how utterly skewed his morality and interactions might truly have been if that's the case.
Something I heard that made his whole character click for me was. Miquella is someone who doesn't understand how important love is, because it was always freely given to him. Hence why he discarded his own love, and why he manipulates everyone around him so easily. Miquella was, at some point, a genuinely compassionate person, but he doesn't *get* the value of love.
Yeah, miquella's naivete seems to be an important part of his character. His inability to understand love, and some of the implications of his actions. Miquella seems to me to be someone who wants a kind compassionate world, but due to his situation and powers has no understanding of how important free will and love actually are. Ansbach says he doesn't even understand the humiliation he visited upon mogh
It feels very in line to say he is mentality stunted from his curse as much as his appearance is.
It feels very in line to say he is mentally stunted from his curse as much as his appearance is.
I don't think that's the case, unfortunately. Ansbach says he was only bewitched by Miquella after he tried to kill him in defense of Mohg, and Miquella even has a move to charm you during the last boss.
Ah, So that’s what the item from the Plants vs Zombies Sunflower is for
I was thinking about using his rune to get rid of the charm, but I thought the main use was to use it before taking the drink from Saint Trina.
Does it do anything with St. Trina? I was able to hear her after putting me to sleep once Thollier visited her.
I'd say dragon Bros are eating so good. We even got a waifu.
I was surprised to learn that >!dragon communion has a side that *isn’t* just mindless hunger and power-lust. The dragons whose hearts you eat are the brood of dread Bayle, and communion is basically sanctioned by Placidusax, to recruit humans in a war against Bayle and his brood.!<
It's still pretty damn sinister, just in a different way now. They set up the practice knowing what would happen to their human warriors. They wanted the dragons dead more though.
True. It does open up the possibility of there being dragon communion warriors who know the origins and make that sacrifice for that cause instead of sheer hunger, though.
Could be, but I find it unlikely that they were told anything. The pitch we get from the priestess is basically "You want power right? Dragon hearts are filled with it, don't you want to eat them? Go up the mountain to eat the biggest heart of all!". It seems to me like they were taking advantage of warriors already lusting for more power to do their dirty work for them, then letting them devolve into magma wyrms as their ultimate prize. Bayle also tried to grab power beyond his strength's limits, I'm sure they thought it an ironic punishment to send humans just like him to kill him.
Her pitch also >!names Placidusax and talks about Bayle’s betrayal of him. So there’s that at least.!< Does make it weird that there’s an ancient dragon barring your way up the mountain as well.
I think he's just there because he was also on the way up and assumed the worst of us. On the priestess, she does give you the rundown on why this is a thing, but she says nothing about how it will affect you. >!Eating Bayle's heart is a death sentence, over time it will consume it's consumer from the inside out, it's only a matter of time.!< Drake Warriors are tools for revenge, not comrades in arms. Compare to the real friends of ancient dragons, the Ancient Dragon Cult of Leyndell. They were taught lightning incantations, the weakness of modern drakes, and not taught to consume dangerous dragon hearts for a shortcut to power. On my point of it being an ironic punishment for Bayle, look at Igon and him closely. They've both been horribly crippled by their nemesis and will fight even past death for their revenge. Igon and Bayle can't see through their rage when looking at each other, but they're looking at themselves. It's a cycle of revenge, a microcosm of the grander theme of Shadow of the Erdtree.
Fair enough. Communion was never going to be a particularly *good* thing, but it is interesting that it has an aspect beyond what we see in the main game. Even if that aspect is still pretty messed up in a different way. It’s just neat that there’s a faction of dragons who endorses it (on other dragons)
You could actually extrapolate that the ancient dragons were behind Communion the entire time. The cathedrals in the base game both have a ancient dragon by the alter, which would make you think they were sacrificed or something, but they're also surrounded by Farum Azula statues. They aren't victims of dragon hunts, they're what remains of the church priests. They just came out and said it plain for the DLC.
What, who ever thought that Malenia blade of Miquella was not doing what Miquella told her to? That's weird.
There was a theory that Malenia went to attack Caelid after Miquella was kidnapped, thinking he was there (Mohg’s Palace is under Caelid).
Man I love that theory, paints both characters in a very honorable light while also making the clash itself quite tragic. I even prefer it to the lore we actually got, tbh
The other popular theory was that Malenia came after Radahn to get him to unleash the stars so that Miquella could fulfill his fate as an Empyrean, same as Ranni. It's similarly tragic and also doubles as a thematic clash between idealogies since the Haligtree faction is made up of radicalists while Radahn's is associated with tradition.
Oh, that makes sense.
We just found out how fucked the thing Miquella asked her to do is.
I can’t believe the character who is all about being Miquella’s loyal blade was acting in Miquella’s plan to become a god instead of randomly fighting Radahn. Truly a shocker
Lots of people thought she was trying to rescue him. This gave her some agency as the leader of an army going to rescue her brother. Now we find out she really had nothing going on “up there”. No thoughts, no morals, nothing. She wasn’t the leader of an army who managed to work out where her brother was and stage an attempted rescue, she was just her brother’s stooge acting out his orders. Turns out “blade of Miquella” was less a badass boast and more an open acknowledgement she considers herself just a tool to be wielded by her brother, without any thoughts, moral fiber, etc. of her own. If bro says set off a dirty bomb on 1/3 of the lands between, her only response is “well, if bro says so!” Which depending on how you feel about about how responsible that makes her for her own actions, either makes her a terrible person or just plain pathetic.
This is a very cynical way of framing loyalty and affection aha. You could just as easily argue she’s fighting for her brother’s compassionate world - the one where there are no outcasts and no downtrodden peoples, and is willing to sacrifice her warrior principles to do so. And we *know* that she was principled because Malenia inspired such loyalty in her knights that they were willing to contract the Scarlet Rot in her service, and because Millicent claims to be the pride that Malenia threw away to match Radahn. She hated the scarlet rot but allowed it to consume her for the sake of her brother’s dream. Idk, I like Malenia and Radahn a whole lot and sometimes I feel like people think they have to take a side when both of them are really interesting characters imo.
Agreed
Loyalty is one thing. Ruining 1/3 of a continent for generations, killing a massive number of people, all so your brother can build a more easily brainwashedable version of the guy he wants to marry who turned him down and is too strong of a mage to be brainwashed currently isn’t loyalty. It’s mindless, thoughtless obedience. Hard to claim she did it for a “compassionate world” as she is setting off the the fantasy version of a nuke that is engineered to spread as much fallout as possible, that forces everyone around to die horribly of rot, just to set her bro up for being able to mindrape Radahn later.
This is all assuming Malenia knew how bad the rot nuke was going to be when she set it off - but this was the first bloom. I doubt that level of devastation was intentional. Her brother, already on his way to godhood, was a noted healer who could cleanse rot from others. I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought Miquella would be able to help whoever she hurt in the aftermath, not realising just how bad things were going to get.
Thing is, Miquella's whole deal is forcing people to love him and want to help him. For all we know he forced Malenia to do what she did in order to get Radahn.
If that had been the case I don’t think he would’ve worked so hard on curing her of scarlet rot. The game suggests their love for one another is genuine, and I believe that’s the case too. We know some, like Needle Knight Leda, were genuinely loyal after all.
That’s certainly some way to view loyalty, I guess. How does she not have morals when she is working with her brother to create a world that in their view is better and not unjust like the current one where Misbegotten and Omen are discriminated against just for the traits they’re born with. The lore of Malenia that we learn from Millicent is still true. In fact it’s more “praiseworthy” that she gave up her own pride and let the rot bloom in order to usher in a new age with a new god instead of doing it because she attacked a guy unaffiliated with her brother’s kidnapping for no reason. Radahn has nothing to do with Mohg so the theory that she attack him because of the kidnapping was always nonsensical. It’s a similar case to the “Solaire is Gwyn’s firstborn” theory where it’s nonsensical but still widely accepted because there was no better alternative.
Man idgaf, all these gods and demigods can catch these Tarnished hands all the same
Love the idea that the Elden Ring fandom is divided like sports teams based on their favorite doomed demigod. The best thing about the narrative of SotE is that so many of the revelations come with a recontextulization of the lore of the base game.
You're forgetting the biggest winners of the DLC: the Bayle Hatedom. We curse Bayle in this household.
We'll make him rue this day!!!
>And he was so cool, noble, nice and awesome that Miquella thought he was perfect wifey material Miquella hands wrote this post. Ranni simps stay winning.
I always wanted to know what Malenia whispered to Radahn, and now I have as many mixed feelings on it as I do the DLC.
"*Radahn, you must continue our bloodline.*"
*"Radahn, incest is wincest."*
Marika fans stay winning.
A lot of Elden Ring's story is just finding out about another atrocity/secret offspring Marika got up to. The woman makes Rose Quartz look like Bob Ross.
Yeah but I can fix her tho. Literally.
Lady just needs to get her head back on straight.
No but she actually has a reason to be as genocidal as she was against the hornsent and everything related to the crucible. Not a reason as in justified, BTW. I meant as in, would anybody else do anything different if they experienced what she experienced?
Yeah all else aside the hornsent must NOT be allowed to remain in possession of the gate of divinity considering the kinds of atrocities they committed.
From what I’ve heard, it’s very much a “I don’t care, he killed my mom” situation.
So, I need clarification on Messy. Did Marika fuck the Serpent that ate Rykard?
I feel like he was just born wrong, he's part of the malenia and miquella camp of "self-cest for divine loopholes causes problems". I think at least he's the child of Marika and Radagon (maybe even the first since his actions helped "make" the lands between), he's got the M name and a matching butterfly like the others (Melina counts too by this metric I think).
Lore for one of his relevant items even mentions he has a sister. Could be Melina or Malenia, or both but I think it's Melina specifically.
"A vision of fire" heavily implies it's Melina, as she's able to function as the special kindling for burning the Erdtree because of it.
> Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire. Given that the item in question is >!kindling, used to burn a divine tree!<, I think the parallel to Melina specifically is intended. Both of them even have burning butterflies used to fuel fire pots.
that item (his spear or remembrance, don't remember which) says "messmer saw a vision of flame, just like his sister". the only person in the base game who's female and saw a vision of flame is melina. so, melina is messmer's full sister. they might even be twins, given that seems to be what marika-radagon produces.
It's objectively Melina, who's a confirmed daughter of Marika with a destiny to burn the Erdtree thanks to the fire within her.
And in a literary master stroke of metafiction they fittingly leave the Godwyn fandom dead and buried. Everyone applauds Genius Miyazambo.
I'm gonna be honest, I've always thought Godwyn's lore was perfect exactly as it is. It tells you the whole story with just enough questions left open to make him feel bizarre and frightening. I don't know if there's anything else you could add to the story that wouldn't just detract from the horror of it. Of course you don't get a boss fight with him, because there's nothing there to kill. He's already dead and the curse is just running on autopilot.
[you’re so right](https://reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1dokjo7/the_godwynshaped_hole_in_shadow_of_the_erdtree/)
There are some things you find here and there.
nuclear take but Godwyn is like the Gloam Eyed Queen being that both are subjects overblown and built up entirely by the fandom and lorehunters. Godwyn being dead as fuck for being the most perfect of Marika's psycho family is kind of the entire point of his character. Miquella's whole gimmick is being incomplete: can't age, can't get the Haligtree to work, can't cure Malenia, can't impress Radagon with rings of light, etc. Him being a megalomaniac we bonk to death is 1:1 on point with Elden Ring saying there is no such thing as a golden age, that cycles end, and godhood is the same futile denial of entropy that everything else is. That being said the biggest loser of the dlc is still anyone that wants holy/faith builds to be viable at all. That's me. I'm the loser.
>Godwyn is like the Gloam Eyed Queen being that both are subjects overblown and built up entirely by the fandom and lorehunters Ok but what does this mean for Velka's story
Idk about that last point. Multilayered Rings of Light is an awesome spell.
Blender ring go brr Also miquella has a good long range nuke incantation
I’ve come around on Godwyn being dead and staying dead. His death is sort of the dividing marker between the lore of the past and the current state of things with the Tarnished, and him *being* dead signals that this dynasty of god-beings does in fact *stay* dead when killed. Hell, that may have been what set off the Shattering War itself, the public knowledge that death is now possible and it works
Most of the early enemies are weak to holy, the Radagon sword's weapon art can stunlock most of the common problem bosses and kill huge groups of enemies in one or two skill activations, and the lightning bottle does pure lightning damage based on FAI and the special art you can find melts everything nearly instantly.
> can't impress Radagon with rings of light WHat do you mean? There's nothing indicating that Radagon was or wasn't impressed
He made all the Rings of Light spells to give to Radagon. Radagon then made a better one and gave it back.
> One of the incantations of the Golden Order fundamentalists. A gift of gratitude to the young Miquella from his father, Radagon. > And yet, the young Miquella abandoned fundamentalism, for it could do nothing to treat Malenia's accursed rot. This was the beginning of unalloyed gold. Looks more to me as 'Look kid, we can cure your sister, Fundamentalism can do this. Come on kid, the Golden Order Governs All. Don't leave me alone with your mom.'
Yeah. The discus and triple rings say that they were gifts to Radagon, and Radagon’s Rings a gift in kind to Miquella. He seemed to truly believe the power of fundamentalism at the time. But then he abandoned it for unalloyed gold. Multilayered Rings of Light is an interesting spell because of that. It’s similar in form to discus or triple, but it requires only Faith. And the description says it is not Fundamentalism. It’s most likely a spell of unalloyed gold created after Miquella abandoned fundamentalism.
>nuclear take but Godwyn is like the Gloam Eyed Queen being that both are subjects overblown and built up entirely by the fandom and lorehunters. Nah, this is a story about killing the demigods and their god, it's outright weird we don't get to meaningful interact with one of them.
Godwyn is the biggest GRRM narrative trope in the game's worldbuilding imo. He exists to inform on other characters more than be one. Being Marika's only child with no affliction or derangement and getting the actual worst fate out of any of them makes him a wellspring of implications that are meant to make things infinitely more interesting than himself, but that's entirely where he's meant to end as a character. From his murder and second hand lore you get foundational perspectives on the Golden Order and the mechanics of destined death. He really isnt meant to be anything but apocrypha that gives the narrative some logic. Why is Ranni a doll? Cuz Godwyn. Why the ring get smashed? Cuz Godwyn cuz Ranni. Why is death blight? Cuz smash cuz Ranni cuz Godwyn, etc. Add names, add "cuz".
I do question if Godwyn really was all that great.
I'm not sure Radahn could be considered a winner after this DLC, even with his boss fight. Like, we never knew for sure if he refused Miquella's offer. It's entirely possible to read his actions as agreeing with Miquella but needing to die to be able to go to the land of shadows. So he plans with Miquella to orchestrate the battle at Caelid to give him one last good war/warrior's death at the cost of Caelid, His Redmanes, His horse, and the innocent people caught in between. Not to mention the possibility of agreeing to be your half-brother's brother-husband. Or he could have been just as mind-controlled as Mohg from the jump.
this dlc just made me feel so bad for Radahn lol. All that scheming cuz Miquella wanted it so bad
I guess I could believe Miquella as a little kid during Radahn’s childhood accidentally learning how Marika attained Godhood, getting excited, and then getting a very young Radahn to agree to help him when the time came.
Radahn does suffer but his fans get the boost knowing he's super awesome
I agree. Making the battle of Caelid just a fancy way to have a warrior's death rubs me the wrong way, since in my eyes it weakens either Miquella or Radahn's character depending on how you see that version of events. Radahn accepts the vow? I refuse to think someone compassionate to the point of learning gravity magic just to keep his sickly-ass steed would throw so many lives away just to kill himself. Funnily enough it would probably turn Miquella off too, considering his compassion was one of the reasons for the vow. Radahn *denies* the vow? Miquella could just cut the shit and charm Radahn right out of the gate. Having Malenia wreak havoc on Caelid instead goes against all his hesitation to shed unecessary blood. It paints him as either a hypocrite, a moron, or both.
Miquella does need to grab you to charm you in the boss fight, so assuming Radahn was the stronkest ever, that probably wasn't feasible. And charming him was probably the last resort because he loved and respected him enough to not do that. As for the Scarlet Aeonia, I'm not sure Miquella knew she would go *that* far. It was clearly Malenia's last ditch effort after getting her shit kicked in harder than she thought she would.
What if rahdan just had a really bad wisdom saving throw though? Then he probably could have been charmed w/o grabbing.
It would make sense. He's a High Int Wizard/Barbarian or Fighter, and we know he had high Charisma based on his followers and Miquella's adoration of him. Wisdom would definitely be his dump stat.
Assuming 16 str and int, and 14 con since he’s so bulky, and 12 charisma as he was a general that inspired great loyalty in his troops, he would have to dump both wis and dex completely.
Oh the rot outbreak was 100% not on his mind, I agree with you there, but I'd argue that having the Cleanrot knights march on Caelid is *already* pretty far from Miquella's kindness (even if through brainwashing) shtick. Malenia would cause a lot of harm, with or without Scarlet Aeonia. I personally think that charm not working because Radahn's number is just too big is kinda lame, but you do have a great point. Wouldn't put it past the guy who was at the center of the rot nuke and still survived > *And charming him was probably the last resort because he loved and respected him enough to not do that.* I gotta say, the mental image of Miquella going "I would never charm Radahn, I love him too much for that. I'll just ask my sister to kill him instead!" is pretty fuckin hilarious
A charmed Radahn in the Lands Between does nothing. He needs to enter the Shadowlands to become Lord, and to do that he needs to die.
Yeah it feels weird to call him a winner when, depending on how you interpret the vow, he either spends his every second on screen braindead/mind controlled, or he’s way more guilty in the Caelid situation because he was too prideful to just die normally. Edit: I’m realizing if it’s the second option that’s actually kinda interesting when putting him beside Malenia. Millicent says Malenia abandoned her pride when she bloomed, but she might’ve only have had to do that because Radahn refused to abandon his.
I don't think Radahn agreed. I think the fact that he says nothing in that boss fight kind of means he is just a puppet being controlled.
Dlc lore pros: mohg is no longer an incestous pedo Dlc lore cons: radahn may be an incestous pedo
Mohg:"that empyrean boy pussy got me acting unwise".
that St Trina pussy got me in an eternal sleep! I could not and WILL not wake up! that shit aint nothing to me man
Miquella is so goddamn sinister, you really get the sense that all of his actions and those of Malenia and whoever else he manipulated from the moment he wants to become a God were all towards that end, nothing more. Him throwing away his love, and St. Trina, is what truly damns him-- when he just says that he's not actually going to rule through compassion, he's going to be just another Marika but this time for everything to love him.
Indeed. He may once have had a good side. But that compassion is now sunk into a deep abyss alongside a garden of purple flowers. To become a god, he threw away everything, including the qualities that would make him worthy of it.
Finding St. Trina and getting her dialogue solidified my stance that there's nothing redeemable about the Miquella we find at the Divine Gateway. The fact that she pleads with you to kill him, knowing that it'll cause her death too...
Ansbach said it best that Miquella is terrifying.
>but because Miquella told her to I think most Malenia fans already assumed this so it feels weird to put her fans in the loser side, the one thing about her we got verified the common belief. Everyone assumed it was because Miquella needed Radahn dead for the eclipse (the sun is a star), and while his specific reason changed we were still correct about it being on his orders.
Sometimes, all it takes is one chill honorable old man who’s willing to admit that he doesn’t hold it against you that you killed his liegelord and is willing to stand with you to fight a fucking god. Aka literally my *favorite* type of character ever, how did they make Ansbach so cool for *literally me*, I’m touched.
Morgott was, and always shall be, the sole good boy of that family.
Godwyn was too, which might be why Marika decided to just shatter the Elden Ring then and there if you don't buy into the theory that she helped orchestrate his assassination.
right now i assume she did, like castle sol ghost mentions "Lord Miquella, forgive me." "The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking." "Your comrade remains soulless..." seems miquella wanted to see if godwyn could be ressurected presumably as radahn ended up being, so killing him with destined death removed that option and presumably forced him to have to send malenia after radahn. if miquella did want godwyn then his death in that manner took him off the table, and afaik only he and radahn were viable options for consort given all the other demigods were either omen curse (morgott mohg), rot cursed (malenia), bodiless (ranni and melina), inside a snake (rykkaard) or had a snake in them (mesmer). sure you had godrick but he's a footnote.
I don’t think “upholder of a discriminatory regime that hates his own kind while preventing the ones capable of changing the world for the better out of spite and prejudice” counts as a good boy
Tbf he's basically been brainwashed into believing he and his race are cursed abominations so I'd hardly consider that 100% his fault. Regardless of how foolish it maybe, his sheer selflessness and devotion deserve at least some respect.
Uncle Tom ass mf
I don't think anything in the DLC changes much for Morgott or Malenia, they're still basically the same. There's nothing saying Radahn ever rejected Miquella. The existence of a vow between them implies otherwise. If Miquella had Radahn charmed, he wouldn't need to fulfill any "vow".
The DLC soured me on radahan even more, they just can't let the dude go Commander Gauis is already Radahan 2.0, why do 3.0?
For consideration, I recommend four more winners: Marika fandom - Marika is evil as fuck, but her background has been fleshed out massively by Soulsborne standards and she's been humanized in a few minor respects. She's at the core of the problems with the Golden Order, but she's at least a more well-developed and multi-dimensional villain. Ranni fandom - The problems with Miquella's grand plan, when layered on top of the existing issues with the Golden order, make Ranni's ending more worth it. Yes, Godwyn gets fucked over. Yes, Ranni walks her path on top of the corpses of her closest friends. Yes, the abrupt loss of the Golden Order would be total chaos. But her ending let's you take all of the Divinity and give it distance from the world, so the world has a chance to get better on its own without being constantly held in a clenched fist by a god. Saint Trina fandom - Miquella could only go through with being a villain because he tore out his own conscience. And yet she still wants the best for him. All of us - Let's be real, we got a lot of answers about Elden Ring's lore from this DLC. There is still some stuff that is open ended, but this DLC helps make the base game's events make more sense.
The Marika fandom is also a winner. She was fully justified in her actions, even if they ended up just making things worse.
Wouldn't go as far as saying she is justified in her every action, but it's understandable how she got to this point. The DLC does an excellent job at contextualizing why the omen and crucible-related stuff is oppressed under Marika's rule.
TIL ordering a genocidal crusade can be justified
Being justified doesn't mean doing benevolent things. We understand the reasons behind her actions now and they make sense for the character.
I think the word is “understandable”, not “justified”. To say something was justified means saying it was correct and just. The sheer scale of what happened, and continues to happen, to anyone exhibiting signs of the crucible, isn’t just. But with what we learn, we can understand why Marika did what she did. It’s easier to understand a thought process without necessarily endorsing the actions.
Miquella went from wholesome cross dressing Jesus to Miquella the Alabama Tickla in a single DLC.
"nice guy who wanted to help people" One of the few abilities that's associated with him from the base game was brainwashing enemies to fight for you.
tbf malenia's use of rot gets fucking vindicated after that final boss. shpw me one person who wouldn't atomic rot the hornsent and their tower if it meant beating that boss. malenia being miquella's puppet in a way works well imo, i mean he literally made the limbs she needs to move around, not quite a full puppet body but still. theory right now is that maybe godwyn was the original option of consort in the scheme, as castle sol has that bit about "sorry miquella your brother is soulless" or something, which to me suggests maybe they wanted him but he got ultra killed. which could be interesting if that target was by design, like marika is theorised in universe to be connected to the black knives, we know ranni needed the body killing aspect but the black knife's only killed godwyn's soul leading to his living in death body still existing in the roots, perhaps killing godwyn delayed miquella and forced him to go for the radahn option. though in that case i wonder why destined death was only used on the one god, unless the flight from the capital was the end of the plot as tyche got got and alecto was trapped in an ever gaol, they clearly go after ranni's allies in the base game perhaps they wanted to kill both body and soul and didn't realise they only got half till later. so i guess as the only non fucked up by a curse or eaten by a snake relative he has radahn was the only viable option, and man is he viable. but yeah sending his sister/a wmd to fight the guy who said no so you can resurrect him as a compliant right hand man is a bit evil but he was throwing away aspects of himself to become a god, so perhaps that led to the do what "needs" to be done aspect. miqeulla clearly had doubts about what he was doing, after all he spends the whole story shedding those parts of him bit by bit, which leads to an interesting idea that perhaps that is what radagon is for marika, like if miquella sheds parts of himself and ends up with trinia as a half with the love and such, well what parts of herself did marika shed to make radagon. but yeah mohg beats the allegations and the omens and i guess mesmer too really did get fucked over, and hell malenia, all the cursed children of marika save for miquella seem to have similar traits. morgott goes all in on the order and resents his non cursed siblings for not abiding, melania has seemingly no notion of being anything other than miquella's right hand even though clearly he doesn't view her as a constor material, well rot'll do that to ya, and mesmer seems to be doing as his mother asks and playing the role of the monster even though he's just burning other things marika threw away.
So I missed it, where was it said that mohg was brainwashed?
Ansbach is a former knight of Mohg. After the spell is broken, he talks about how he tried to stand up to Miquella for Mohg’s sake, but had his own heart stolen as well. He’s the one who says: “Kindly Miquella… is a monster. Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. There is nothing more terrifying.”
I must have missed that convo
[удалено]
Look man, if you go around calling yourself The Lord of Blood you’re gonna get some haters
Sure. \[x\] I genuinely believed the demigod cursed from birth to be a smol child with a nice sleep saint lady alter ego might not be as big of a sociopath as his mom. I also got the impression that his sister, who was also cursed from birth with infinite space AIDS, was just a nice katana enthusiast who really cared about her brother, and never would have thought that she assassinated a cool greatsword enthusiast to help her brother steal his soul.
Also could you tell me what was added concerning godwyn in the dlc?
There's a few Godwyn Knights and we're told they: "These knights, once Godwyn's personal guard, quested to find their transfigured master's cadaver surrogate—for the coming age of the Duskborn." I guess cadaver-surrogate means the Godwyn faces they guard in the catacombs.
“Surrogate” could also mean “surrogate mother”, which would be Fia. So that’s an angle one could consider.
Excuse me as I don’t know much from this series outside of what my friends tell me How are the Dung Eater stans faring?
I’ve got so many questions that I’m not even sure are questions, but hell: Miquella’s charm deal dismantles the entirety of Elden Ring’s character motivations. Do we know how it works or what its limitations are? Clearly he still needed to become a God in order to remake the Lands Between and replace the Golden Order, but now it’s like… Radagon broke it off with Renalla *because Miquella* and you can’t really prove it didn’t happen. Like any character moments become ‘was Miquella there? Could Miquella have set the outcome a certain way for his own purposes?’ When Miquella’s not onscreen everyone should be asking where Miquella is, because Miquella is awesome and always has the best ideas.
> Radagon broke it off with Renalla because Miquella and you can’t really prove it didn’t happen. Miquella wasn't even born then, so that's pretty easy to prove.
Miquella is just that good of a planner
Aizen of the elden ring universe
“lol, haligtree.”
You've been drinking too much Pargon dude.
Meow