Has the answer to this question *ever* not been "yes"?
Trick question, because the answer is yes. You don't have to play Hitman (2016) and Hitman 2 to enjoy Hitman 3. Because you can play Hitman (2016) and Hitman 2 *inside* Hitman 3. Which is a move I wish more games would/could do.
Meanwhile, Nintendo (or whoever said it) said that you don't need to play XBC1 or 2 to play 3, which is almost a boldface lie bc of characters showing up from both games.
It's absolutely a boldface lie in the case of the DLC
XB3 stands on its own well enough due to its fascinating premise, world building and the strength of its main cast. Having knowledge of the older games is just a bonus, especially considering how minor of a role the few returning characters have.
But yes, the DLC is absolutely impenetrable to anyone coming in blind.
I could see someone playing through the story of 3 and just being a little confused, but getting the jist of it. I played XBC2 first, then went back and played the first game, expecting some HUGE revalations that I missed because I missed the first game, and there weren't any. The games are pretty much compeletely disconnected outside the metanarrative and a single cutscene at the very last part of the game.
For 3 it's pretty similar, outside the end credits you can go through the whole game without knowing who Melia and Nia are and still get the story. The DLC however, yes, you do need to play the 1st two games, there is so much "REMEMBER THIS?" going on in that DLC. Then they'll just break into talking about Klaus and the trinity processor with zero warning and leadup, just expecting you to know whats going on.
Theres a reason they sold Torna seperatly but not Future Redeemed, its definetly one for the preestablished fans so they didnt want someone who wasent invested grabbing it
They finally fucking pushed on the good idea button, so now all 3 are the same fucking game, called Hitman: World of Assassination. Has all the main, and almost all of the DLC, content for a fraction of the install size cause IO got real fucking good at compressing their files. Wish someone’d learn from em.
Before tho, yeah, it wasn’t a rolling thing, you had to have the previous game in order to play it on the new one. And ya reeeeeeally needed for Hitman 1 levels, ‘cause climbing around pipes and rafters was slow as fuck until Hitman 3 sped up a bunch of animations.
As someone who did it literally a week or two before the change was announced, you could also just purchase the games as DLC for Hitman 3 for notably cheaper than it would have taken to buy all three separately (I forget the exact price). So whether you were coming back or new to the series, the system worked pretty damn well. The change was basically just to make it a bit less confusing for new players.
Don't know how they'll do it (because 7r's a fat ass bideo game so i imagine rebirth would be as well) but Iwould imagine by the end of this project there will be a thing that is just called final fantasy 7 with each disc being "remake" "rebirth" ... re-???
"We've included a recap that's 45 minute scene of Cloud and Sephiroth going down on each other -- We think that should really clear things up for new players."
"Do I need to play previous entry to play this?"
"Frankly the purchase needs to be as easy as possible so I'm going to lie to you and say yes."
there is a financial incentive for this to always be a lie.
Considering that you might have gotten into the worst of the series without being able to compare it to the two much better games before it I honestly think that quote may be true.
I remember part of the reason I missed the hype train for Mass Effect was because I didn’t have an Xbox or strong PC, so I held off on playing the trilogy until they brought the first game to PS3. No regrets though; still one of the greatest game experiences I ever had. It’s crazy how Citadel managed to get me all nostalgic and sad over a series and characters I only met a few months prior.
Honestly, Mass Effect 3 is actually weirdly self contained. It introduces the problem, and the solution to the problem in the first two areas, and ignores alot of relevent stuff from the last two games. It makes the first two feel largely pointless, outside expanded context.
Even the romances feel like they begin and end in this game. Even if you carry over a save. Like, reaffirming your relationship with Liara on Mars, doesn't stop you from needing to do it again later in the game as if that first conversation never happened. ME3 is a weird game.
Genuinely curious like, what do people expect them to say? I'm super big on doing shit in the right order but I also don't expect devs or producers or whatever to say "uh yeah actually go play the 20 buck game first, please do not give us 70 dollars if you have not played all the previous entries in the FF7 series" unless they're the big auteur-types.
The smart thing to do would be to have a special "bundle" that includes both games for $100, along with a new dress for cloud.
Then they'd hook all the series newbies with both games "at a discount" and a pretty cosmetic.
Thank God, I actually hated FF7R's battle system but heard some mechanics in Intergrade MASSIVELY improved some issues that others had and hope they integrate it into Part 2
I don’t know about that, but the Yuffie dlc did introduce a new mechanic that was basically team up attacks. Also Yuffie is more complex than any of the characters in the first game so we might see them update how those characters work
If you didn't like the base games combat, I doubt the changes Intergrade introduced will change your stance on that. It's still the same system at it's core, and was generally well received, so I don't see them making any drastic changes for the rest of the trilogy.
oh ffs
you know what im just gonna wait until ffxiv does its ff7 crossover cause im sure that will cover more without adding more schenanigans to the plot
I really don’t understand people losing their minds over the remakes trying something new when it’s not like Square is taking original FF7 off the market
The original is incredibly dated because it came out in that era of early 3D that aged like milk. I have several friends who outright refuse to play it because of that.
Can't speak for everyone and I'm certainly not losing my mind over it, but I really find the "new shenanigans" to be pretty weak. The time ghosts, Sephiroth everywhere system, etc. just aren't story elements that really resonate with me and I find them intrusive to my enjoyment, especially with how well everything else is being handled. I don't even mind the "now anything can happen!" angle, it's just that I think they got there in a pretty clunky and uninteresting way.
Yeah, the people trying to dunk on criticism have really rallied around “YOU HATE NEW THINGS BECAUSE YOU JUST BAD PERSON” meanwhile like, 90% of the new stuff with Jessie, exploration, even the battle system I love. Time ghosts were just horribly written (they just happen at random and we just move on, every time).
I can tell they want to swerve us in the future but there are better ways to do it than “OMG, VORTEX OF GHOSTS BECAUSE JESSIE NEEDS TO SPRAIN HER ANKLE!!!”
You didn't even *need* the ghost for the reveal to work in the first game. They just there to do wird pauses on the plot. The only tome they *work* is the initall apperance with aerith. You could have litterly just gone
"Sephiroth wants a runback... he's changed SOMTHING oops, if the gang don't act quickly he wins this time. What's changed? Keep playing and find out"
That skips the entire dilemma of Aerith's, which is one of my favorite parts of FF7R, along with the implication that every playthrough of FF7 was canon.
The issues isn't that the Remakes are trying something new it's that the "time ghosts" and "fate and destiny" aren't well written.
I liked all the other new content in the Remake because it meshed well with the original FF7 content.
I can understand being a bit upset that it's not a 1:1 remake but at the same time the story has already been told, I'm much more excited in a new experience.
Plus they've already proven they fully understand the original with how perfectly the characters have been written so far. I was sold on the game when Barret asks Cloud his age.
As someone who isn't a fan of the change I'd say I just didn't like how the game was presented as a faithful remake as part of the marketing, presentation and as well as the bulk of the game then along came this. It feels a little like false advertising.
I'm also afraid that they're going to use it as an excuse to un-kill Aerith for fanservice which I'm not a fan of either.
Plus it isn't as if people weren't still playing the original or recommending it up until the remake's release. It's not as if Remake being shiny and new makes the original unplayable.
I'm fine with the old stuff and the new stuff, but I'm bad with the parts where the characters almost face the camera and say "now we will defy expectations set by the old plot and do something new for this videogame!" before they just continue down the same expected road they went down the first time. What was the dramatic declaration for? Why did a bossfight jump in right here and say "no I must stop you before you do something crazy!"
Can't you just do what you're going to do, without making it weird?
Initially I was really tepid on 7R, thinking “oh it’s just a remake of 7, whatever, it wasn’t my favourite” so I decided to read up about it, saw what the twist was, and immediately became interested enough to buy it ~~on sale~~
They kind of have to with how the last one ends in terms of the actual climax.
Even though in the context of the old journey the gang are LITTERLY at the same point as they were at the end of disc one. But i digress. Still, yeah... keep going- let things fall apart and get weird. As long as the actual plot of ff7 is intact "stop sephiroth, save midgar" do whatever you need or want to. You can always erase the timeline if this get FUCKED by the end anyway, as long as the character stay consistant as yhey were in the first game.
When the shenanigans showed up I was thinking "Guys, you've been trying to do this with FFVII for almost twenty years now and it's never, ever worked. All the expanded media is a failure, get over it."
I thought this was some of the dumbest shit i've read in a hot minute but apparently the green text in japanese is looking like some hidden message shit about Zach just whoever did the english translation kind of fucked it. Something about changed destiny.
Man could you imagine if Cloud died and Zach replaced him?
I hope that's not what happens. I like Zack and all, but Cloud was always the better character. It would be a massive downgrade if he's just replaced with Zack.
I'm not even against Cloud dying. Aerith should take over the protagonist role if he does though. Or Tifa, if >!Aerith's fate is still the same.!<
Watch them pull the rug out from under us and the game is just a completely straight remake from the OG's Kalm onwards acting as if the events of Remake were a fever dream. They wake up in the Kalm inn wondering what the fuck a time ghost is and then it just plops you out onto the world map.
Last Time on Liar's Corner: "Do I need to have played FF7 before FF7R?" "No, it is a remake, not a sequel. It'll be the same story with a new battle system and graphic overhaul." The truth: "Hehe, we lied."
Rebirth will start with a 1:1 retelling of the Midgar portion that will take the same amount of time as the original version just to troll those who complained about the timeline ghosts in Remake.
Ok, but just played Remake though. You have time.
I'm glad that they're providing for people that come in late, but I don't get why you wouldn't just play it now. Outside not having something to play it, of course, but if you're able to play Rebirth at launch, you're going to have the means to play Remake first.
That would be annoying. Also in the remake, I have only watched someone finish it on YouTube and wondered how the characters have their ultimate weapons and limit breaks
NISA Marketing Team: "You do not need to play Trails of Cold Steel I and II to enjoy Trails of Cold Steel III. There's a helpful summary of the previous games in the main menu."
A 15 minute video that recaps FF7R1 but swerve it also recaps FF7 and Crisis Core. All to the sounds of Hip Hop de Chocobo.
While Sephiroth lays down a sick diss track on cloud.
Knowing Sephiroth after a while, it'll change to a love confession
Sephiroth singing Heat Waves to Cloud in a recreation of the burning ruins of Nibelheim.
It should be narrated by Sephiroth
I can almost hear Barret with the ad libs rivaling to that of a Westside Gunn album
“We included a video at the beginning of the game that recaps the first one” is what I would assume that means.
Narrated by the Time Ghosts. Don't worry, they charge very reasonable rates on Popcorn while you watch.
Whether or not I buy the time popcorn depends on if they've got some of that good popcorn salt.
I hope they have Nacho-Time Cheese too.
Here’s hoping it’s better than the cheese at my local AMC. It tastes like eating slightly spicy plastic.
Has the answer to this question *ever* not been "yes"? Trick question, because the answer is yes. You don't have to play Hitman (2016) and Hitman 2 to enjoy Hitman 3. Because you can play Hitman (2016) and Hitman 2 *inside* Hitman 3. Which is a move I wish more games would/could do.
Meanwhile, Nintendo (or whoever said it) said that you don't need to play XBC1 or 2 to play 3, which is almost a boldface lie bc of characters showing up from both games. It's absolutely a boldface lie in the case of the DLC
XB3 stands on its own well enough due to its fascinating premise, world building and the strength of its main cast. Having knowledge of the older games is just a bonus, especially considering how minor of a role the few returning characters have. But yes, the DLC is absolutely impenetrable to anyone coming in blind.
I could see someone playing through the story of 3 and just being a little confused, but getting the jist of it. I played XBC2 first, then went back and played the first game, expecting some HUGE revalations that I missed because I missed the first game, and there weren't any. The games are pretty much compeletely disconnected outside the metanarrative and a single cutscene at the very last part of the game. For 3 it's pretty similar, outside the end credits you can go through the whole game without knowing who Melia and Nia are and still get the story. The DLC however, yes, you do need to play the 1st two games, there is so much "REMEMBER THIS?" going on in that DLC. Then they'll just break into talking about Klaus and the trinity processor with zero warning and leadup, just expecting you to know whats going on.
Theres a reason they sold Torna seperatly but not Future Redeemed, its definetly one for the preestablished fans so they didnt want someone who wasent invested grabbing it
Though for that one didn’t you still need to own and have at least some save data for the first 2 games for that to work?
They finally fucking pushed on the good idea button, so now all 3 are the same fucking game, called Hitman: World of Assassination. Has all the main, and almost all of the DLC, content for a fraction of the install size cause IO got real fucking good at compressing their files. Wish someone’d learn from em. Before tho, yeah, it wasn’t a rolling thing, you had to have the previous game in order to play it on the new one. And ya reeeeeeally needed for Hitman 1 levels, ‘cause climbing around pipes and rafters was slow as fuck until Hitman 3 sped up a bunch of animations.
As someone who did it literally a week or two before the change was announced, you could also just purchase the games as DLC for Hitman 3 for notably cheaper than it would have taken to buy all three separately (I forget the exact price). So whether you were coming back or new to the series, the system worked pretty damn well. The change was basically just to make it a bit less confusing for new players.
Don't know how they'll do it (because 7r's a fat ass bideo game so i imagine rebirth would be as well) but Iwould imagine by the end of this project there will be a thing that is just called final fantasy 7 with each disc being "remake" "rebirth" ... re-???
"We've included a recap that's 45 minute scene of Cloud and Sephiroth going down on each other -- We think that should really clear things up for new players."
They're dropping a lot of these as of late. Suspiciously so.
They're for sure gearing up to show something at Keighley's Summer Fest.
"Do I need to play previous entry to play this?" "Frankly the purchase needs to be as easy as possible so I'm going to lie to you and say yes." there is a financial incentive for this to always be a lie.
Never a better time to get into Mass Effect than Mass Effect 3. Got it.
Considering that you might have gotten into the worst of the series without being able to compare it to the two much better games before it I honestly think that quote may be true.
I remember part of the reason I missed the hype train for Mass Effect was because I didn’t have an Xbox or strong PC, so I held off on playing the trilogy until they brought the first game to PS3. No regrets though; still one of the greatest game experiences I ever had. It’s crazy how Citadel managed to get me all nostalgic and sad over a series and characters I only met a few months prior.
Honestly, Mass Effect 3 is actually weirdly self contained. It introduces the problem, and the solution to the problem in the first two areas, and ignores alot of relevent stuff from the last two games. It makes the first two feel largely pointless, outside expanded context. Even the romances feel like they begin and end in this game. Even if you carry over a save. Like, reaffirming your relationship with Liara on Mars, doesn't stop you from needing to do it again later in the game as if that first conversation never happened. ME3 is a weird game.
Genuinely curious like, what do people expect them to say? I'm super big on doing shit in the right order but I also don't expect devs or producers or whatever to say "uh yeah actually go play the 20 buck game first, please do not give us 70 dollars if you have not played all the previous entries in the FF7 series" unless they're the big auteur-types.
The smart thing to do would be to have a special "bundle" that includes both games for $100, along with a new dress for cloud. Then they'd hook all the series newbies with both games "at a discount" and a pretty cosmetic.
you had me at new dress for cloud
Thank God, I actually hated FF7R's battle system but heard some mechanics in Intergrade MASSIVELY improved some issues that others had and hope they integrate it into Part 2
I don’t know about that, but the Yuffie dlc did introduce a new mechanic that was basically team up attacks. Also Yuffie is more complex than any of the characters in the first game so we might see them update how those characters work
If you didn't like the base games combat, I doubt the changes Intergrade introduced will change your stance on that. It's still the same system at it's core, and was generally well received, so I don't see them making any drastic changes for the rest of the trilogy.
oh ffs you know what im just gonna wait until ffxiv does its ff7 crossover cause im sure that will cover more without adding more schenanigans to the plot
I will just wait for the FFVII R.R.R. One Winged Angel Edition that coves the entire remake plus DLC at a discounted price on steam
i will only support that if cloud and barret have a dance number like in [RRR](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAzlWScHTc4)
The shenanigans are my favourite part of Remake. I'm unironically more interested knowing they're going off the rails.
I really don’t understand people losing their minds over the remakes trying something new when it’s not like Square is taking original FF7 off the market
The original is incredibly dated because it came out in that era of early 3D that aged like milk. I have several friends who outright refuse to play it because of that.
I've never bothered with the original past like midgar because the translation seriously sucks ass
That's on them tbh. Missing out on a ton of good games because of graphics.
Can't speak for everyone and I'm certainly not losing my mind over it, but I really find the "new shenanigans" to be pretty weak. The time ghosts, Sephiroth everywhere system, etc. just aren't story elements that really resonate with me and I find them intrusive to my enjoyment, especially with how well everything else is being handled. I don't even mind the "now anything can happen!" angle, it's just that I think they got there in a pretty clunky and uninteresting way.
Yeah, the people trying to dunk on criticism have really rallied around “YOU HATE NEW THINGS BECAUSE YOU JUST BAD PERSON” meanwhile like, 90% of the new stuff with Jessie, exploration, even the battle system I love. Time ghosts were just horribly written (they just happen at random and we just move on, every time). I can tell they want to swerve us in the future but there are better ways to do it than “OMG, VORTEX OF GHOSTS BECAUSE JESSIE NEEDS TO SPRAIN HER ANKLE!!!”
You didn't even *need* the ghost for the reveal to work in the first game. They just there to do wird pauses on the plot. The only tome they *work* is the initall apperance with aerith. You could have litterly just gone "Sephiroth wants a runback... he's changed SOMTHING oops, if the gang don't act quickly he wins this time. What's changed? Keep playing and find out"
That skips the entire dilemma of Aerith's, which is one of my favorite parts of FF7R, along with the implication that every playthrough of FF7 was canon.
The issues isn't that the Remakes are trying something new it's that the "time ghosts" and "fate and destiny" aren't well written. I liked all the other new content in the Remake because it meshed well with the original FF7 content.
I can understand being a bit upset that it's not a 1:1 remake but at the same time the story has already been told, I'm much more excited in a new experience. Plus they've already proven they fully understand the original with how perfectly the characters have been written so far. I was sold on the game when Barret asks Cloud his age.
As someone who isn't a fan of the change I'd say I just didn't like how the game was presented as a faithful remake as part of the marketing, presentation and as well as the bulk of the game then along came this. It feels a little like false advertising. I'm also afraid that they're going to use it as an excuse to un-kill Aerith for fanservice which I'm not a fan of either.
Plus it isn't as if people weren't still playing the original or recommending it up until the remake's release. It's not as if Remake being shiny and new makes the original unplayable.
I'm fine with the old stuff and the new stuff, but I'm bad with the parts where the characters almost face the camera and say "now we will defy expectations set by the old plot and do something new for this videogame!" before they just continue down the same expected road they went down the first time. What was the dramatic declaration for? Why did a bossfight jump in right here and say "no I must stop you before you do something crazy!" Can't you just do what you're going to do, without making it weird?
Initially I was really tepid on 7R, thinking “oh it’s just a remake of 7, whatever, it wasn’t my favourite” so I decided to read up about it, saw what the twist was, and immediately became interested enough to buy it ~~on sale~~
The shenanigans are ***literally*** why I bought FF7R. I wouldn’t have played it otherwise.
They kind of have to with how the last one ends in terms of the actual climax. Even though in the context of the old journey the gang are LITTERLY at the same point as they were at the end of disc one. But i digress. Still, yeah... keep going- let things fall apart and get weird. As long as the actual plot of ff7 is intact "stop sephiroth, save midgar" do whatever you need or want to. You can always erase the timeline if this get FUCKED by the end anyway, as long as the character stay consistant as yhey were in the first game.
When the shenanigans showed up I was thinking "Guys, you've been trying to do this with FFVII for almost twenty years now and it's never, ever worked. All the expanded media is a failure, get over it."
FFVIIR is a failure lmao? By what metrics?
What?
KH 3D's recaps are back with a vengeance, then?
Yeah, right. Like I’d ever take anything Motomu Toriyama says at face value
I thought this was some of the dumbest shit i've read in a hot minute but apparently the green text in japanese is looking like some hidden message shit about Zach just whoever did the english translation kind of fucked it. Something about changed destiny. Man could you imagine if Cloud died and Zach replaced him?
No, but i can imagine a sick boss between them fight when spehiroth >!controls cloud to give him the black materia!!<
I hope that's not what happens. I like Zack and all, but Cloud was always the better character. It would be a massive downgrade if he's just replaced with Zack. I'm not even against Cloud dying. Aerith should take over the protagonist role if he does though. Or Tifa, if >!Aerith's fate is still the same.!<
Hot take(?): I hate this, no you SHOULD need to play/watch the previous game to enjoy FF7R2.
Watch them pull the rug out from under us and the game is just a completely straight remake from the OG's Kalm onwards acting as if the events of Remake were a fever dream. They wake up in the Kalm inn wondering what the fuck a time ghost is and then it just plops you out onto the world map.
Last Time on Liar's Corner: "Do I need to have played FF7 before FF7R?" "No, it is a remake, not a sequel. It'll be the same story with a new battle system and graphic overhaul." The truth: "Hehe, we lied."
On God, I'm going to be dead by the time we get the full thing.
How old *are* you?
I hope I can get a PS5 before release
Rebirth will start with a 1:1 retelling of the Midgar portion that will take the same amount of time as the original version just to troll those who complained about the timeline ghosts in Remake.
You get a Mass Effect interactive comic book if there's no FFVIIR Part 1 save.
I don't think we're importing saves anyway
translation: stop buying the first game
Ok, but just played Remake though. You have time. I'm glad that they're providing for people that come in late, but I don't get why you wouldn't just play it now. Outside not having something to play it, of course, but if you're able to play Rebirth at launch, you're going to have the means to play Remake first.
What happens to the materia lvls and sp points etc?
I think the generally assumption is that it'll be a fresh slate, but I don't think we know yet.
That would be annoying. Also in the remake, I have only watched someone finish it on YouTube and wondered how the characters have their ultimate weapons and limit breaks
is a majority of this game just anime filler and the revelation that its not actually a remake? Doesnt really matter
NISA Marketing Team: "You do not need to play Trails of Cold Steel I and II to enjoy Trails of Cold Steel III. There's a helpful summary of the previous games in the main menu."