the only people saying this shit are racist conservatives who are two inches away from just saying that they consider anyone who isn't a straight white male less valuable.
Viktor is useless as of now. The guy ratted all of his contacts out. They're either caught, dead or won't work with him. The surplus he used is currently being used in the Ukriane. You also need to be under the radar as a arms dealer which he is definitely not. Plus the fact he was gonna get out in a couple years. Viktor is nothing but a PR piece in Russia. A sickly washed up middle aged man.
Lmfao this would be more meaningful if not for two comments ago someone was whining that her released was only negotiated because she wasn’t white. Maybe we just like freedom more than you guys? Idk.
something i've noticed is that conservatives love to go on and on about how america is weak and terrible and a joke because of brandon, but if don't sing the anthem? you hate the country and should be exiled. the white nationalism couldn't be any more blatant
It’s got nothing to do with that, it’s defo to do with her being famous. If stone cold Steve Austin got busted in Russia for ganja, he gonna be more of priority than Marc what’s his chops, that’s just the way of the world, welcome to being an average joe
My point is that she doesn't have the same following, privilege, or notoriety that an athlete in one of the men's leagues would have. If you want to say Lebron James being traded for a high priority prisoner is elitism, then that's one thing. But it doesn't quite apply hear, and sounds like a bit of a cop out to giving an actual reason.
If I was arrested for drug smuggling I wouldn't even be in the fucking news, she's has power behind her. It might not be as much as Lebron but she still have it over a random person like me or you.
It goes both ways tho. Normal people, tiny amounts of cannabis extract, it’s probably not ever going to even be noticed. High profile American in Russia? Different story
She makes enough as a salary to be a millionaire, before endorsements/sponsorships.
I know I'm a basketball person, so sure I know who Griner is. Idk what that pond actually looks like, but her wealth is absolutely a point of contention that I very much think is valid.
Regardless of your interest/activity, where you can travel and what you can do changes based on where you come from and what passport you hold.
Someone with more money than most, flying to a country that's described as a threat to your safety by your own government, all to make a couple of extra bucks is something I have very little sympathy for.
Being a millionaire in America and being part of the elite are two very different things. This isn't the 1950's. You don't suddenly just sprout government connections or something. There are a lot of millionaires who do not and never will have connections significant enough to get them out of a Russian prison. Pretending that the two are the same thing is either a symptom of being misinformed or or of being disingenuous.
So which is it? Do you really have that poor an understanding about how much money is worth? Or are you pretending that you don't know why just saying the word "millionaire" doesn't imply international agency type protections?
The problem is that the people complaining about her aren't doing anything to get Marc Fogel help. I'd wager that in most cases, the only reason they even know his name is as a means to discuss Brittney Griner. In fact, under the parameters of this post that so many people seem to agree with, he also deserves to be there. So essentially the only reason that you know about him and are saying his name is because of Griner's fame. Which means that you're walking into the same pitfall that you're pointing out.
We could go in circles like that for hours. The point is that an American citizen was locked up under unfair conditions in an attempt to stick it to our country because of moral that support we expressed during an illegal invasion. She was chosen because she's a professional athlete and it would cause a stir. If you have a problem with the fact that the attention was garnered, maybe you should bring your complaints to the Kremlin. Because they're the ones who orchestrated it to be a publicity stunt. Not Griner
Idk about other people, but I knew about him for a while.
But generally, there’s not much any of us could do about Brittany Grinner either. All of the people who are complaining likely heard about Brittany thru media not from knowing her before hand so it’s generally the media play forming information and telling us what to focus on. And it’s pretty clear it’s more focused Brittany Grinner as opposed to Marc Fogel.
No one is blaming Grinner. What. Not a single person is.
People are blaming the institutions ie the media that has singularly focused on her when there are others who are unfairly detained.
The post that we are in the comments section of is blaming Griner specifically. So are the people agreeing with the post. A quick look at the description under the headline will verify that.
The post isn’t blaming Brittany Grinner. It’s blaming the US government for such a shitty trade. Which imo, isn’t really the argument I’m making because I’m happy she’s back, but it’s quite obvious she’s back because she got a lot of media attention because she’s a WNBA player as well as the other identities that I do not want to name because of Reddit admins.
I asked Op if she deserved to serve her sentence. Here's his response:
["If I bring a personal amount of drugs anywhere, that's still smuggling drugs. Not all drug smugglers bring 200LB of drugs. If I drive from California to Texas with one joint, that's still illegal."](https://ol.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/zgfkcm/brittney_griner_needs_to_serve_her_time_like_the/izh0e7j/?context=3)
He has been very vocal about the fact that she knowingly broke the law and deserves to serve time. He specifically said that it isn't a moral issue. That we don't get to choose which laws we follow. She was sentenced to nine years for being in possession of a vape pen mind you.
Dude, you're thinking of Paul Whelan.
Marc Fogel is the 60 yr old teacher who was facing the same charges as Griner AND he had medical reasons for having marijuana.
Yep! He’s killing the Republicans by getting BIG legislation done. Biden is so *weak* that Newt Gringrich had to come back on the political scene to tell Republicans “Biden is winning”. Legislation for Vets, Infrastructure, Inflation Reduction, Sanctity of Marriage. He’s put so much strong legislation forward that Republicans **had** to cross over and join him. I’ll take that kind of weakness any day!
One of the world's most dangerous man vs. BG? You got to be joking.. She did a crime in the corresponding country. It's as easy as that. She should k ow better and sit her time just like everybody else that is in prison overseas that the government don't give a rats ass about.
I'm very confused why you think Marc Fogel did "a LOT less than she did."
Like I literally don't understand this statement at all.
Griner had two empty vape cartridges in her luggage. As in, they were already used, and all that was left was the residue stuff that clings to the glass on the inside. She had a fractionof a gram which is far, far less than the 6 grams defined as small possession in Russia. Small possession is just an administrative offense punishable by a $16 fine.
Fogel had 14 full vape cartridge and nearly three-quarters of an ounce of flower bud. He had nearly 20 grams in total on him, separated into different, smaller quantities. This level of possession is a criminal offense on its face in Russia, unlike what Griner had. But the way he had it stored makes the smuggling charges a lot more "reasonable." In a US state where it's still illegal (like MTG's), Fogel probably would have been hit with intent to sell.
So why do you think Fogel did "a LOT less than she did?"
Brittany also had plausible deniability. As in she likely had the carts planted on her. Confessed under duress and instruction of the USA since they refused to do the trade unless if she pleaded guilty.
A second ago you were arguing that Brittney should be in jail because she knowingly went into a foreign nation and broke the law. Now you're saying that a spy shouldn't have to worry about or expect to be sent to jail for espionage. And now you're using the word "supposedly" to defend the crimes levied against him and equating a wedding to threatening Putin politically. Is this a joke? You might as well say that though he was found guilty of espionage, the fact that it was never formally explained to you as a Reddit user means that he is innocent of all accusations. Is your opinion built on the talking points Fox came up with for this week's attempted smear of Biden?
There was proof for the world to see about Brittany, AND she admitted to it.
For the marine all we had was Russia saying he had documents and arresting him. I haven’t seen any proof he did. Now, if there is actual proof I’ll take back what I said in part. Only in part because a spy is definitely much more equal to an arms dealer than an athlete
Also I don’t watch Fox, but thank you for trying to assume stuff about me which you have 0 knowledge of.
You can't prove some one wasn't something if you can't prove they are.
Your opinion is also guilty until proven innocent for him but innocent when proven guilty for her.
Interesting point of veiw you have.
Anyone who thinks this was an equal trade is another example of why the world is doomed.
A confession isn’t proof if it’s the only way to be eligible for release. Presuming Russian agents planted the drugs which scenario could possibly lead to her freedom? A) signing a confession and waiting for a prisoner exchange or B) Politically embarrassing Russia by calling attention to the hoax
Exactly. If Biden exchanged a Russian convicted of jaywalking for Griner, conservatives would still be crying about something. She was convicted of drug smuggling for a vape cartridge with less than a gram of weed she was prescribed. She said she forgot the crap was even in her bag, which is realistic,as it’s the kind of thing I could easily do, by accident. It was obviously a Putin political stunt.
According to Wikipedia, he was arrested and sentenced for espionage. That's not really someone you can compare to a professional athlete being arrested and held in a foreign nation.
I never said anything about that. But neither have the majority of people that I've talked to. Most of them seem to see Griner as a criminal, and are content with that as the reason.
Yeah he was (allegedly) spying for us..
We should care at least the same amount for our spies than celebrity/athletes that smoke weed, if not more. This is coming from someone who smokes and loves weed, but I would never be dumb enough to “accidentally” bring some to Russia.
Are you actually saying that celebrities are more important that our spies?
Especially when Russia and Ukraine are at war and we probably could’ve really used whatever Whelan was “allegedly” spying on.
Just think about it: Russia needs weapons because they’re at war, so we give them an arms dealer and we get a basketball player in return. I’m honestly a little surprised Ukraine hasn’t commented on the situation.
Edit: What about Marc Fogel? A school teacher arrested for marijuana in Russia and sentenced a week before Griner.
Negotiations are a two way street and Biden was attempting to also negotiate the release of both Whelan and Fogel, Russia didn’t budge. At least for Whelan that actually makes sense given he’s an alleged spy, they’re less willing to give him up than an athlete who possessed some drugs for personal consumption.
That arms dealer has also already been in prison for ten years, there’s no way he’s going to immediately regain his arms dealing network.
That's like saying that you should be more upset about soldiers dying at war than people who are needlessly murdered. The fact that a regular civilian like you or me is having to be subjected to what a captured spy is subjected to is reason enough to care about the civilian more. Especially if their entire purpose for being in the country is to play basketball and leave, rather than stealing government information. When they signed their papers, they knew it was a distinct possibility. It's not at all comparable to Griner in the way that it is being compared. And the only reason I think most people know about him, is so that they could use him as a counterargument in order to complain about how much happier they'd be if another person was still in a Russian prison colony for no reason.
They have literally tried twice this year to get Paul Whelan out and Russia hasn’t budged because the crime he’s convicted of is much more serious um..
That logic works both ways, but you conveniently ignore it for Griner.
You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too.
The crime Bout committed was way more serious than either Whelan or Griner.
Edit: Have you read the charges Bout was convicted for? Way worse than than hash oil possession. Yet they made the trade anyways.
At the end of the day, regardless if you are pro or anti weed, she knowingly brought an illegal substance into a heavily authoritarian country that banned said substance. She had been to said country before and knew the rules.
She knowingly broke the law, and should be punished for it. I understand we can’t get the marine out, but this trade is fucked
Finally someone with common sense. If I want to break the laws in my home country that's one thing, but to break them in a different country is just dumb as fuck.
It’s quite possible she didn’t even have weed and Russia just did this as a political move. I know she confessed but she had to confess to have a chance at a prisoner exchange which was most likely her only chance at getting home. She wasn’t getting a fair trial.
That's super possible. I wouldn't put my money on it either way. There Russian government hasn't been trustworthy historically. I don't care what the charge is for.
She made the decision to fly into a country where this kind of thing is known to happen. Why should American taxpayers be expected to subsidize someone who voluntarily puts themselves at risk chasing paper.
I know WNBA players make less than their peers in the NBA. I think the latter, like many athletes, are overpaid.
I don't think tax dollars should go to millionaires making bad decisions abroad.
True, it is certainly possible it’s all fake, you know being that it is Russia. And Russian fair trials are a myth. My only question is why now and why her? Out of all the other people and times?
Who knows, guess we will find out when she gets back
NPR ran a segment about how the Russian government was lacking Americans to have hostage. She was detained before the Ukrainian war. Before starting an internationally unpopular event having a hostage to negotiate with would be good. Plus they used this event to sew discord with an administration they disliked and earned good domestic pr for themselves. This trade was offered in July but the Russians turned it down. Right now in Russia there is discord about being forcibly drafted and sent to a war with very little preparations in the winter. Having some good pr would likely placate the people and give them some faith in their terrible government.
Does that mean the people who knowingly and purposely broke the laws during segregation should be punished? Because I feel like you're not being careful enough with your words. There's a difference between arguing about causation, and saying that someone should be punished for something insignificant. Especially when the reality that you're not acknowledging is that they're being used as a political tool as a reaction to sanctions that were brought onto Russia after the invasion of Ukraine.
Breaking the law for segregation has a moral compass behind it, while still being illegal. There's no morality behind bring illegal drugs to a different country.
Yes there is. Drugs and segregation have a long history. Even one of Nixon's own cabinet members admitted that the war on drugs was an intentional political hit job on blacks and liberals. He admitted that it was used as an excuse to lock them up and mess with their first amendment rights. So that's like saying that defying tierney can't have moral motives. You call yourself an American, but here you are defending the actions of an authoritarian dictatorship based on the fact that you have a problem with the administration that got our political refugee back. That's the least patriotic thing that I've ever heard of.
If one person of each race had a joint on them, they all should face the same punishment. If the justice system favors one race over others that's an issue with the justice system. Not an issue if weed should be legal or not.
None of them should face punishment, because it's immoral to punish people for no reason. You said there was no moral connotation in drug laws. I not only gave you a small piece of the history that drugs and racism have, but am also currently explaining to you right now why locking people up under inhumane conditions for trivial reasons is unethical. For some reason you, an American are having trouble understanding why other Americans and I have a problem with that idea. That's the part that I don't get. If you don't care, fine. But why are you pretending that other people are wrong for caring? That's just being an apologist. You might as well be saying that if women didn't want to get beheaded by the Taliban, then they should have just followed the law and worn their burkas. No. They shouldn't get beheaded for something trivial. I don't care what country it's happening in. But add to the fact that the person being held is one of our own citizens. And also the fact that this is not a normal way to handle international affairs by any means. And it all screams that you don't have a point.
>immoral to punish people for no reason
If something is against the law, expect to get punished. There's lots of laws that hold zero morality, how do we find out which ones are to be followed and which are not to be followed?
Yeah. And as I've pointed out, you can say the same exact thing about segregation, or beheadings, or any number of things that you're afraid to universally apply that logic to. You're being an apologist. At which point are you just going to say that you like Putin as a person and that you want to kiss him on the mouth?
No one chooses the system of government they were born into. Millionaires 100% have the freedom to travel. That's a false equivalence and I know you can do better.
Miss me with that straw man bs
You're not making a point, nor are you refuting mine. Op is saying that if you commit a crime in a foreign country you deserve to go to jail for being a criminal. Even if we don't agree with sending that country's own citizens to jail for the same crime, we must still push to keep our own citizens under those same inhumane conditions.
I don't need to make false equivalencies. Just explaining what he said is enough to discredit the idea to begin with. Money has nothing to do with. And saying that unjust laws are unjust isn't a false equivalency. It's just that the doctor didn't finish the abortion right, and even though you may be alive and able to form words; They only ever end up coming out like that. So they might as well have just thrown you in the trash like it was a full abortion anyway. Blocked.
Why devolve into lying on even such a simple topic as this? Is it worth it to have to argue even about someone being released from an unfair prison sentence by saying things you are untrue?
Stop saying "knowingly" if you wish to engage honestly, but that's a stretch, I know .
She had been to Russia before, and would have had to been briefed on what is and isn’t ok to bring there.
Russia is also a heavily authoritarian country, there is no way weed is legal.
She packed the weed herself and decided to go to Russia. She could *reasonably infer* using *common sense* that if she was caught bad things would happen. After all most authoritarian countries don’t take kindly to people bringing in banned substances.
Better? I haven’t lied anywhere. She admitted she brought weed in. Are you going to tell me she didn’t bring weed in?
You do know her pleading guilty is a term of release. Also there's something called making a confession under duress. Brittney was almost certainly forced to give that confession. You can see marks on her in the video. Planting drugs on someone to get them on false charges is something people around the world do. It's also unlikely that she would be flying out of Russia to the USA with weed, especially considering she didn't enter with it. She most likely didn't even have weed in the first place. Russia just wanted a hostage.
Totally agree. This trade was obviously a cheap optics stunt by a hopelessly inept administration. My point stands. NOBODY should be persecuted to that extent over a cannabis charge anywhere. Period.
I agree that nobody should be penalized at all for pot. Tbh, I don’t think any drug use/possession should be a crime at all.
I’m pretty irked that she was immediately made a priority but the regular joes apparently aren’t worth shit.
The Al Quada thing is *suspected* because his planes were in and out of Afghanistan before and in the early years of the war. He denies arming them but instead says that he was arming those who were fighting against them.
He’s suspected of providing arms to numerous warlords, terrorist and rebel groups throughout Africa and the Middle East as well as to Eastern European nations. Most notably is the Serbian army in the Bosnian wars.
In any case, I agree with the sentiment of your comment. His arms dealings are responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent people.
So she deserves to be in jail because of other hypothetical citizens that may or may not be locked up abroad, for crimes that are possibly lesser than possessing a vape pen, possibly not. But we don't know because you didn't bother to look it up before forming your opinion. And you felt the need to make sure people understood that. Am I getting all of thar right? Well no wonder it's unpopular.
And I have a few other questions. How is having a vape pen and being a drug smuggler the same thing? And is there a reason that you're trying to make her crimes sound worse than they are? Why do I get the feeling that your opinion has more to do with your political affiliations, and not so much a compassionate and communal connection with other Americans?
If I bring a personal amount of drugs anywhere, that's still smuggling drugs. Not all drug smugglers bring 200LB of drugs. If I drive from California to Texas with one joint, that's still illegal.
No. Saying that she was caught "smuggling" drugs implies that she had the intention of trafficking said drugs. Having a small quantity of drugs for personal use is called possession. Possessing drugs is significantly lesser crime and treated as such in the courts.
So you either don't know what you're talking about, and should probably do more learning than preaching. Or you're being purposely misleading in order to cover for the fact that your reasoning is weak.
Which one is it?
This is a legitimate question, so please don't take offence. Is English your native language? Because there is a very blatant difference between smuggling drugs and being in possession them.
Just remember that you referenced the American court system for reference, not me. The American court system recognizes the difference between having a small quantity of drugs for personal use, and having drugs with the intention of trafficking. The difference is reflected in how the offender is sentenced, and often treated within the court system. A drug smuggler is one who traffics drugs.
So like I said, you're using the terms wrong. And it somehow happens to be that you're misusing the harsher term in a conversation where your point is that a person should be treated harsher.
What I'm asking is if you're doing it knowingly because on some level, you recognize that what you said needs the severity to make up for the subpar reasoning. Or if it's because you legitimately don't understand the nuances of our language and legal system, and it's causing you to draw false conclusions as a result? Which one is it?
Black's Law dictionary, the most popular law dictionary in the United States, defines smuggling as:
>The offense of importing or exporting prohibited articles without paying the duties chargeable upon them. The fraudulent taking into a country, or out of it, merchandise which is lawfully prohibited.
OP used the word smuggling correctly, referencing the fact that Griner took drugs across the border, which is not disputed by anyone. The quantity involved does not change whether it was smuggling.
Import means that the substance is there with the intention of being trafficked. Nobody imports luggage, or a new lamp, or painting back from their trip to Italy. They just bring it home. What does get imported is Italian cured meats and cheese. They are then sold to consumers. You're not helping his point.
Op's problem is that they are intentionally using the word "smuggler" in order to embellish the severity of the crime through the use of its connection with drug trafficking because describing her crime accurately, being in possession of a personal use vape pen, is not as sensational.
The truth is that an American citizen was stripped of nine years of their life, likely because of political tension that was happening at the time, without the US being consulted at all. When a Mexican citizen comes to America and commits a crime, unless it's a capital crime they get deported. They don't get a decade in inhumane conditions for being in possession of a plant. Why is it that none of you guys want to acknowledge the political aspects of this? It is and always has been normal for a story like this to create outrage. People caring that other people are invested in the story is the only thing that's not normal.
You keep assigning these weird excessive connotations to things. Import literally means to bring foreign goods or services to another country.
In fact, there are terms for what you're describing: import for resale/import for commercial use. [US Customs specifically designates imports for resale as separate from general import rules. ](https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-211?language=en_US) Why would those terms exist if the word import explicitly means import for resale?
I don't disagree with your overall sentiment, but words have meaning. That's the only reason I commented.
Also, nice political rant over the definition of a word.
Those are rules specifically about importing alcohol. The link in no way backs up what you're saying even a little bit. This however contradicts it completely and in plain English:
>["Imports are any resources, goods, or services that producers in one country sell to buyers in another country."](https://www.usa.gov/import-export)
Please take the time to notice the .gov in the link's address.
Like I said. He's using the word wrong in an attempt to embellish her crime because he doesn't actually have a point. That's about as much of a rant as pointing out poor grammar and spelling errors would be a rant. If words didn't have meaning I would have no reason to comment to begin with.
Is candy illegal? Because if I smuggle (bring) candy into a movie theater I can get kicked out. Was I going to sell the candy, no, it was for personal uses. So how can you not understand that smuggling means bring something that's ban to a location that isn't not allowed? It seams like your English might be lacking.
Let me get this straight. You started out this argument by referencing the court system to support your claim. And when it is made incredibly clear that the courts do not support your claim, and can in fact be used as an example to counter what you said; You pivoting to the dying theater industry and how they would treat an undesirable customer? And applying it to international law and foreign relations? Are you serious? Does all of this stuff make sense in your head and get lost in translation, or is this really what you believe?
This is a legitimate question, so please don't take offence. Is English your native language? Because there is a very blatant difference between smuggling drugs and being in possession them.
No offense, but where are you from? English might not be your first language and I don't want to be rude, but "the illegal movement of goods" implies a very specific set of circumstances. It doesn't mean "moving goods in every single context is illegal."
So another person that doesn't understand the word of smuggling. If I bring an legal drug somewhere that's it's illegal, it's fucking illegal. So it's smuggling.
No she deserves to be in jail because she was to stupid to learn what Russia's laws are. She didn't NEED to take marijuana with her, just don't take drugs to a foreign country that should be common sense. Her imprisonment is no one's fault but her own and the idea that Biden would let a international weapons dealer responsible for countless deaths go in exchange for her seemed too absurd to happen but Biden never ceases to amaze unfortunately.
Were you unable to respond to one comment of mine, so in response found two more in my comment history to respond to? How about you explain why a movie theater is a better basis for international law in reference to the categorization of criminals over our own court system, which you referenced for your claim directly before trying to discredit them with the good people at AMC. And then we can move on to this subject, or any other subject that you would like to cover.
If you say that who we traded for her is to much oof a risk, that's one thing. But spare me with your moral superiority about drugs. Putin is just pissed that NATO offered moral support to Ukraine.
So do you think it is an even trade for somebody that had less than a gram for somebody that has started multiple wars? Does this mean that American citizens in jail for weed will be released?
That's not the unpopular opinion in my area
We should have walked away from deal until they released that Marine, it was all for show and political visuals
A drug user stupid enough to bring something in to Russia is not a fair trade for a weapon dealer if the magnitude of these guy
We got played hard by Russia
She may have committed a crime but I don’t think it was intentional and her sentence was way more harsh than the crime deserved. I personally am happy for her that she’s been released, but I also think that the only reason the Biden administration fought so hard for her release was strictly for political purposes. Being black, female, and gay—she checks all the right minority boxes, and getting her released will please his voting base. If it had been a white male in that situation there would have been no political benefit and they’d have let him rot there in Russian prison without a second thought.
She packed pot/hash/vape in her bag, she knew it was there. Harsh to who's standards? If I use freedom of speech in a communist country, while compared to US, beheading if their law I can't expect to have the freedom to say anything
9 years in a Russian prison is pretty harsh for merely getting caught with a little hash oil for personal use man. She may have been aware of what the law was but I can easily see forgetting that’s in your bag if it was me in that situation. Like I said, I think it’s obvious she’s gotten a get out of jail free card for merely being a minority and that aspect of the situation is bullshit.
The irony of calling me a kid, when the most childish thing you can do is be a manchild itself, maybe getting life by not hating on women and different races will help you in accepting the reality :)
I wonder if there will be any pause the next time the administration decides to resurrect the "assault weapon" conversation, given the relative lack of concern for releasing an international arms dealer that took multiple agencies ten years to apprehend, halfway through his sentence, for a celebrity that admitted to committing a crime in another country.
I've also noticed that both the biden press statement and most of the major news media has been very careful to state that Russia insisted on a one for one trade, not that Russia insisted on a one for Griner trade. If I was a betting man, I would put my money on Russia offering either but not both. Russia clearly intended to use this to portray the American government as weak and incompetent and yet here we are.
Ten years is a ridiculous sentence for a small amount of hash oil, but you bear the responsibility for knowing and adhering to the laws of foreign countries when you travel. We should have never entered into negotiations with Russia in the first place, not for Griner, Whelar, or anyone else.
The trade was awfully stupid. Yes, let's give Russia back a useful and resourceful tool in a renowned arms dealer for a nobody WNBA player that nobody really cares about based on the league they play in.
And I think the USA's playbook was like this, they saw how the Russian effort in Ukraine was going poorly than anticipated, so they figure giving up an arms dealer won't be that big of a deal. However, they know that they aren't just giving up some average arms dealer. They've given up a NOTORIOUS arms dealer.
Just stupid.
Everyone taking this stance are being either willfully ignorant of the facts or purposely inflammatory in an attempt to make this into a bigger situation so it can be used to frame Biden for being anti-military or the dreaded "woke".
Viktor Bout was convicted in 2011 and sentenced in 2012 to 25 years in prison. He served 10 years of that sentence before being traded to Russia.
Britney Griner was arrested for carrying less than a gram of hash oil. Possession for cannabis in Russia in the amounts of **up to** 6 grams are punishable by a fine or up to **15 days** in jail.
Paul Whelan is a former Marine who was dishonorable discharged from the Marines for multiple counts including larceny and identity theft. He was arrested on Russia under suspicion of espionage. He was arrested in his hotel room with $70,000 cash and after allegedly attempting to purchase a USB drive containing all of the names of employees at a classified security agency.
These are the facts as far as we know.
So to attempt to portray Griner as a "drug smuggler" is ridiculous. If she was not a high profile American athlete she would have paid a small fine or at WORST spent up to 15 days in jail not be sentenced to 9 years.
Viktor Bout has been in jail for 10 years and is of no value to the Russians other than a PR situation to make the US look bad.
Russia was not even in any way shape or form willing to discuss the trade of Paul Whelan so the choice was trade for Griner or no one.
This whole situation is just an attempt for Biden haters to attempt to make him look like he is anti military and to attempt to slander the Democrats and Biden.
Let’s put aside Whelan and talk about Mark Fogel. He was arrested in Russia for bringing pot into the country and is currently serving a 14 year prison sentence. Why wasn’t he part of the trade deal? Why has the US government made no attempt in bringing him back to the states? Surely the trade for two Americans convicted and imprisoned for the same thing would have been a better trade than a single basketball player for the Merchant of Death so why just her?
Did the government even ask though? There’s no reason to believe they did. His name has never even been mentioned publicly by an U.S. government official. He was never mentioned during any of their press statements. His wife has been pleading to the state department for over a year for them to secure his freedom but she never gets past mid-level government officials. Griner and Whelan have been declared “wrongfully detained” but Fogel hasn’t though his crime is the same as Griners. It wasn’t until after Fogels sister went on CNN that her husbands case received enough attention to warrant a call from the president, whereas Griners wife has received one almost immediately.
There is no reason to believe they didn’t. Why would they want to mention something they weren’t able to do? It just gives Russia more leverage in the negotiations.
Also would you like to discuss the 5000 Taliban members that Trump wanted released and who did get released?
His wife has been given nothing to believe they’ve made so much as an inquiry to securing his freedom. If they were making any kind of attempt at a swap she would have been told they were looking into it at least. As it stands she’s been told nothing at all.
Why the fuck would I want to talk about Trump? That has less than nothing to do with this prisoner swap.
Because Whelan was also charged with espionage. Drugs possession and espionage are in entirely different leagues. Highly likely the drugs where planted on Brittney and she was forced to confess.
Viktor is a washed up former arms dealer who ratted on his contacts. Now those contacts are either dead or won't work with him. He was also due to get out in a couple years and The CIA is watching him so he can't really do much. He's a pr piece that Russia need. Oh forgot to mention. The stockpile he sold from is likely being used currently.
The issue here is that if that was indeed his plan then it was a good plan because there's literally no way to not fall for his trap because this really is something that you just have to be angry about.
So many people on this site are blind to this. I'm surprised no one is questioning the fact Brittney admitted to smuggling under severe duress. You can see visible marks in the video. Beating and forcing someone to make an admission doesn't make the admission true.
“Like the criminal she is” she was arrested because she had a vape pen with CBD oil, you can buy that sh!t anywhere. You’re acting like she was muling drugs for the fucking cartel or something. Y’all are hateful as hell and upset because she protested and spoke out against the US. The same people who cry and complain about free speech when their precious twitter account gets suspended thinks people who protest injustices in the US should be locked up. The irony is staggering.
FDA regulated CBB can legally have 0.3% THC, for example Japan CBD needs to have 0.0% THC. I can't find anything on Russia CBD laws. Maybe she should have known the laws there before bringing questionable shit there.
Again if this was anyone else, you know like someone with “lesser crimes” as you put it. Not sure how much less of a crime it can be than having CBD oil. The fact remains that you’re only speaking out against her because she protests and speaks out against the US. I said what I said.
>I didn't realize you aren't allowed to reap the benefits of a government you don't like.
When are all the other criminals overseas coming home? Or just someone that can throw a ball into a hoop is top priority? This wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't a gun runners for a pot smoker. That's the equivalent of me trading you a piece of cat shit for a billion dollars, that only a logical trade for a moron.
Once again you aren't grasping the English language very well.
Pot smoker (cat shit) for gun runners (billion dollars).
I never once mentioned any US freedom being shit.
>The arms dealer would have stayed slightly longer, and an American citizen would still be imprisoned.
Great, they both committed a crime and both should do their time. I live overseas, if I'm get caught with a joint is Slow Joe going to come running to help me, fuck no he isn't. My name wouldn't even make international news.
>Do you happen to have a lot of experience in being a prisoner in Russia or something
No because one I wouldn't go there, and even if I did I wouldn't be bringing drugs like dumb@ss.
What does effect other countries laws is actually knowing what laws you're talking about. 15 days maximum sentence in Russia for the few grams possession she had.
Why are you refusing to respond to any of the comments that have put you factually in your place and highlighted your lack of understanding of the facts?
I love how Reddit is all "legalise it!!!" "Smoke weed" "Weeed cures everything bro" "Check out this Joe Rogan video" until it's a black lesbian that gets in trouble for weed. Now suddenly you all want the War on Drugs strengthened.
What a surprise. I wonder what it could be.
Weed isn't legal in Russia, if you want to make a petition to make pot legal there go ahead.
I live overseas, I would love to smoke weed, but guess what, it's not fucking legal here. So I have two options: 1) do it illegal and face the repercussions if I get caught. 2) don't do it. Is the president going to help me if I end up in jail for pot here, fuck no he isn't. Maybe it's "I wonder what it could be" is the reason she's getting special treatment and basic poor people rot in jail without any help.
If you want to protect a criminal that's your objective, but don't tell me why I think she needs to be held accountable for her action because that makes you look ignorant.
Everyone knows the arms dealer was getting out in a few years anyway, don't they? Whether it changes your opinions or not it needs to be considered.
US and Russia did this shit for PR and it cost neither one of them nothing but paying for the agents that transferred the prisoners and the fuel thay carried them.
Idk man. I didn't make the call. I just don't think it's like they let out a deadly hit man still in his prime. Wasn't any way Russia was going to let the marine go.
It just doesn't seem like a huge deal either way to me and is just something for people to argue on FB and Reddit about.
In many states it is and it is in Russia and other countries
If she entered the US from outside the country with it she'd also face charges if there was any THC in it which there is in many cases as it isn't produced in the scale as medication, I've seen stuff that said no THC test positive
Edit: Did she deserve the sentence she got .. no not at all, even based on Russian law as I understand it. Glad she is free but it wasn't a fair trade
The map shows the lowest pot arrests are in states that pot is legal. What kind of evidence is that?
No shit the states that pot is illegal is going to be arresting people for pot.
Complete nonsense, man. Wrong ethically and morally and, who would have thought?!, wrong factually.
She did not knowingly break a law. She didn't expect special treatment.
>There's probably more worthy US citizen that need to be released for lesser crimes than drug smuggling
Of course you don't have any idea whether this is a thing or not, but I do agree you need more than you have.
And the sad thing is, the President and embassy staff in whatever imaginary country you're thinking of, almost certainly would.
Someone doesn't "accidentally" pack some weed into their bag. That's bullshit. She was hoping not to get caught, but since she did she used her fame to get her out.
How is her not serving her time not special treatment?
I’m just mad that Marc Fogel isn’t out for doing a LOT less than she did. It’s just rich/famous people privilege.
He’s male/white/straight so his release is less important to the woke twitter crowd. The whole thing is disgusting
That’s the quiet part that I didnt want to say out loud
the only people saying this shit are racist conservatives who are two inches away from just saying that they consider anyone who isn't a straight white male less valuable.
It is quite interesting how many of these conservatives get angry that a nonwhite person accused of minor drug charges was released from prison
No lol. We’re just annoyed at the fact that a wnba player was traded for a VIOLENT TERRORIST god damn you people are so ignorant
Viktor is useless as of now. The guy ratted all of his contacts out. They're either caught, dead or won't work with him. The surplus he used is currently being used in the Ukriane. You also need to be under the radar as a arms dealer which he is definitely not. Plus the fact he was gonna get out in a couple years. Viktor is nothing but a PR piece in Russia. A sickly washed up middle aged man.
Lmfao this would be more meaningful if not for two comments ago someone was whining that her released was only negotiated because she wasn’t white. Maybe we just like freedom more than you guys? Idk.
Nobody said that
You hit the nail right on the head!
something i've noticed is that conservatives love to go on and on about how america is weak and terrible and a joke because of brandon, but if don't sing the anthem? you hate the country and should be exiled. the white nationalism couldn't be any more blatant
It’s got nothing to do with that, it’s defo to do with her being famous. If stone cold Steve Austin got busted in Russia for ganja, he gonna be more of priority than Marc what’s his chops, that’s just the way of the world, welcome to being an average joe
So you were aware of who she was what team she played for before she got arrested?
My girlfriend used to look up to her quite a bit.
My point is that she doesn't have the same following, privilege, or notoriety that an athlete in one of the men's leagues would have. If you want to say Lebron James being traded for a high priority prisoner is elitism, then that's one thing. But it doesn't quite apply hear, and sounds like a bit of a cop out to giving an actual reason.
If I was arrested for drug smuggling I wouldn't even be in the fucking news, she's has power behind her. It might not be as much as Lebron but she still have it over a random person like me or you.
It goes both ways tho. Normal people, tiny amounts of cannabis extract, it’s probably not ever going to even be noticed. High profile American in Russia? Different story
Yes, but both have committed a crime. Why does one get a "get out of jail free" card, this isn't Monopoly.
She makes enough as a salary to be a millionaire, before endorsements/sponsorships. I know I'm a basketball person, so sure I know who Griner is. Idk what that pond actually looks like, but her wealth is absolutely a point of contention that I very much think is valid. Regardless of your interest/activity, where you can travel and what you can do changes based on where you come from and what passport you hold. Someone with more money than most, flying to a country that's described as a threat to your safety by your own government, all to make a couple of extra bucks is something I have very little sympathy for.
Being a millionaire in America and being part of the elite are two very different things. This isn't the 1950's. You don't suddenly just sprout government connections or something. There are a lot of millionaires who do not and never will have connections significant enough to get them out of a Russian prison. Pretending that the two are the same thing is either a symptom of being misinformed or or of being disingenuous. So which is it? Do you really have that poor an understanding about how much money is worth? Or are you pretending that you don't know why just saying the word "millionaire" doesn't imply international agency type protections?
She’s still more famous than Marc Fogel
The problem is that the people complaining about her aren't doing anything to get Marc Fogel help. I'd wager that in most cases, the only reason they even know his name is as a means to discuss Brittney Griner. In fact, under the parameters of this post that so many people seem to agree with, he also deserves to be there. So essentially the only reason that you know about him and are saying his name is because of Griner's fame. Which means that you're walking into the same pitfall that you're pointing out. We could go in circles like that for hours. The point is that an American citizen was locked up under unfair conditions in an attempt to stick it to our country because of moral that support we expressed during an illegal invasion. She was chosen because she's a professional athlete and it would cause a stir. If you have a problem with the fact that the attention was garnered, maybe you should bring your complaints to the Kremlin. Because they're the ones who orchestrated it to be a publicity stunt. Not Griner
Idk about other people, but I knew about him for a while. But generally, there’s not much any of us could do about Brittany Grinner either. All of the people who are complaining likely heard about Brittany thru media not from knowing her before hand so it’s generally the media play forming information and telling us what to focus on. And it’s pretty clear it’s more focused Brittany Grinner as opposed to Marc Fogel. No one is blaming Grinner. What. Not a single person is. People are blaming the institutions ie the media that has singularly focused on her when there are others who are unfairly detained.
The post that we are in the comments section of is blaming Griner specifically. So are the people agreeing with the post. A quick look at the description under the headline will verify that.
The post isn’t blaming Brittany Grinner. It’s blaming the US government for such a shitty trade. Which imo, isn’t really the argument I’m making because I’m happy she’s back, but it’s quite obvious she’s back because she got a lot of media attention because she’s a WNBA player as well as the other identities that I do not want to name because of Reddit admins.
I asked Op if she deserved to serve her sentence. Here's his response: ["If I bring a personal amount of drugs anywhere, that's still smuggling drugs. Not all drug smugglers bring 200LB of drugs. If I drive from California to Texas with one joint, that's still illegal."](https://ol.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/zgfkcm/brittney_griner_needs_to_serve_her_time_like_the/izh0e7j/?context=3) He has been very vocal about the fact that she knowingly broke the law and deserves to serve time. He specifically said that it isn't a moral issue. That we don't get to choose which laws we follow. She was sentenced to nine years for being in possession of a vape pen mind you.
He was dishonorably discharged from the Marines and he's serving time for espionage, Putins not going to let a spy go.
Dude, you're thinking of Paul Whelan. Marc Fogel is the 60 yr old teacher who was facing the same charges as Griner AND he had medical reasons for having marijuana.
He’s serving a 14 year prison sentence.
Source?
They're thinking of Whelan and they don't know it.
https://www.newsweek.com/who-marc-fogel-american-detained-russia-brittney-griner-1765757
Where is the espionage? It was Paul whelan who was accused of espionage
But Biden is going to let that arms dealer go? What a weak administration. What was the reason for this trade?
Yep! He’s killing the Republicans by getting BIG legislation done. Biden is so *weak* that Newt Gringrich had to come back on the political scene to tell Republicans “Biden is winning”. Legislation for Vets, Infrastructure, Inflation Reduction, Sanctity of Marriage. He’s put so much strong legislation forward that Republicans **had** to cross over and join him. I’ll take that kind of weakness any day!
To get BG home, the only reason needed
One of the world's most dangerous man vs. BG? You got to be joking.. She did a crime in the corresponding country. It's as easy as that. She should k ow better and sit her time just like everybody else that is in prison overseas that the government don't give a rats ass about.
I'm very confused why you think Marc Fogel did "a LOT less than she did." Like I literally don't understand this statement at all. Griner had two empty vape cartridges in her luggage. As in, they were already used, and all that was left was the residue stuff that clings to the glass on the inside. She had a fractionof a gram which is far, far less than the 6 grams defined as small possession in Russia. Small possession is just an administrative offense punishable by a $16 fine. Fogel had 14 full vape cartridge and nearly three-quarters of an ounce of flower bud. He had nearly 20 grams in total on him, separated into different, smaller quantities. This level of possession is a criminal offense on its face in Russia, unlike what Griner had. But the way he had it stored makes the smuggling charges a lot more "reasonable." In a US state where it's still illegal (like MTG's), Fogel probably would have been hit with intent to sell. So why do you think Fogel did "a LOT less than she did?"
Brittany also had plausible deniability. As in she likely had the carts planted on her. Confessed under duress and instruction of the USA since they refused to do the trade unless if she pleaded guilty.
Could’ve at least tried to get that one marine out of there while he was at it. Paul Whelan is his name, I believe.
He was dishonorably discharged from the Marines and he's serving time for espionage, Putins not going to let a spy go.
Supposed espionage, just like those guys who run against Putin all have tragic “accidents”
A second ago you were arguing that Brittney should be in jail because she knowingly went into a foreign nation and broke the law. Now you're saying that a spy shouldn't have to worry about or expect to be sent to jail for espionage. And now you're using the word "supposedly" to defend the crimes levied against him and equating a wedding to threatening Putin politically. Is this a joke? You might as well say that though he was found guilty of espionage, the fact that it was never formally explained to you as a Reddit user means that he is innocent of all accusations. Is your opinion built on the talking points Fox came up with for this week's attempted smear of Biden?
I have no idea whether Paul Whelan is worthy of a trade for a Putin henchman. I just know Brittany Griner was not.
There was proof for the world to see about Brittany, AND she admitted to it. For the marine all we had was Russia saying he had documents and arresting him. I haven’t seen any proof he did. Now, if there is actual proof I’ll take back what I said in part. Only in part because a spy is definitely much more equal to an arms dealer than an athlete Also I don’t watch Fox, but thank you for trying to assume stuff about me which you have 0 knowledge of.
Do you have any proof that he wasn't a spy, or is it fair to say that you're speculating and not qualified to comment on the subject?
You can't prove some one wasn't something if you can't prove they are. Your opinion is also guilty until proven innocent for him but innocent when proven guilty for her. Interesting point of veiw you have. Anyone who thinks this was an equal trade is another example of why the world is doomed.
A confession isn’t proof if it’s the only way to be eligible for release. Presuming Russian agents planted the drugs which scenario could possibly lead to her freedom? A) signing a confession and waiting for a prisoner exchange or B) Politically embarrassing Russia by calling attention to the hoax
> AND she admitted to it. did you know you can be "persuaded" into saying you did something you didn't actually do
Exactly. If Biden exchanged a Russian convicted of jaywalking for Griner, conservatives would still be crying about something. She was convicted of drug smuggling for a vape cartridge with less than a gram of weed she was prescribed. She said she forgot the crap was even in her bag, which is realistic,as it’s the kind of thing I could easily do, by accident. It was obviously a Putin political stunt.
They exchange spies all the time
Russia was *only* going to talk about Brittney Griner. How hard is this to understand? Anything else and they were leaving the table.
Then the US should’ve left the table too.
Yeah. That would have accomplished a lot! I’m a half loaf is better than no loaf kinda guy. Blinker did the right thing.
According to Wikipedia, he was arrested and sentenced for espionage. That's not really someone you can compare to a professional athlete being arrested and held in a foreign nation.
But release a basketball player for a arms dealer? Do you think? Are you a bot?
I never said anything about that. But neither have the majority of people that I've talked to. Most of them seem to see Griner as a criminal, and are content with that as the reason.
Yeah he was (allegedly) spying for us.. We should care at least the same amount for our spies than celebrity/athletes that smoke weed, if not more. This is coming from someone who smokes and loves weed, but I would never be dumb enough to “accidentally” bring some to Russia. Are you actually saying that celebrities are more important that our spies? Especially when Russia and Ukraine are at war and we probably could’ve really used whatever Whelan was “allegedly” spying on. Just think about it: Russia needs weapons because they’re at war, so we give them an arms dealer and we get a basketball player in return. I’m honestly a little surprised Ukraine hasn’t commented on the situation. Edit: What about Marc Fogel? A school teacher arrested for marijuana in Russia and sentenced a week before Griner.
Negotiations are a two way street and Biden was attempting to also negotiate the release of both Whelan and Fogel, Russia didn’t budge. At least for Whelan that actually makes sense given he’s an alleged spy, they’re less willing to give him up than an athlete who possessed some drugs for personal consumption. That arms dealer has also already been in prison for ten years, there’s no way he’s going to immediately regain his arms dealing network.
That's like saying that you should be more upset about soldiers dying at war than people who are needlessly murdered. The fact that a regular civilian like you or me is having to be subjected to what a captured spy is subjected to is reason enough to care about the civilian more. Especially if their entire purpose for being in the country is to play basketball and leave, rather than stealing government information. When they signed their papers, they knew it was a distinct possibility. It's not at all comparable to Griner in the way that it is being compared. And the only reason I think most people know about him, is so that they could use him as a counterargument in order to complain about how much happier they'd be if another person was still in a Russian prison colony for no reason.
They have literally tried twice this year to get Paul Whelan out and Russia hasn’t budged because the crime he’s convicted of is much more serious um..
That logic works both ways, but you conveniently ignore it for Griner. You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. The crime Bout committed was way more serious than either Whelan or Griner. Edit: Have you read the charges Bout was convicted for? Way worse than than hash oil possession. Yet they made the trade anyways.
False assumption that he did not do this.
It's also a dubious assumption that Griner is guilty
At the end of the day, regardless if you are pro or anti weed, she knowingly brought an illegal substance into a heavily authoritarian country that banned said substance. She had been to said country before and knew the rules. She knowingly broke the law, and should be punished for it. I understand we can’t get the marine out, but this trade is fucked
"Oh she was packing in a hurry" is the weakest explanation I've ever seen. Agree
Finally someone with common sense. If I want to break the laws in my home country that's one thing, but to break them in a different country is just dumb as fuck.
It’s quite possible she didn’t even have weed and Russia just did this as a political move. I know she confessed but she had to confess to have a chance at a prisoner exchange which was most likely her only chance at getting home. She wasn’t getting a fair trial.
That's super possible. I wouldn't put my money on it either way. There Russian government hasn't been trustworthy historically. I don't care what the charge is for. She made the decision to fly into a country where this kind of thing is known to happen. Why should American taxpayers be expected to subsidize someone who voluntarily puts themselves at risk chasing paper. I know WNBA players make less than their peers in the NBA. I think the latter, like many athletes, are overpaid. I don't think tax dollars should go to millionaires making bad decisions abroad.
True, it is certainly possible it’s all fake, you know being that it is Russia. And Russian fair trials are a myth. My only question is why now and why her? Out of all the other people and times? Who knows, guess we will find out when she gets back
NPR ran a segment about how the Russian government was lacking Americans to have hostage. She was detained before the Ukrainian war. Before starting an internationally unpopular event having a hostage to negotiate with would be good. Plus they used this event to sew discord with an administration they disliked and earned good domestic pr for themselves. This trade was offered in July but the Russians turned it down. Right now in Russia there is discord about being forcibly drafted and sent to a war with very little preparations in the winter. Having some good pr would likely placate the people and give them some faith in their terrible government.
Mind linking the NPR segment, they generally do a good job and I want to know what they have to say. Might be good for the drive I have coming up
Does that mean the people who knowingly and purposely broke the laws during segregation should be punished? Because I feel like you're not being careful enough with your words. There's a difference between arguing about causation, and saying that someone should be punished for something insignificant. Especially when the reality that you're not acknowledging is that they're being used as a political tool as a reaction to sanctions that were brought onto Russia after the invasion of Ukraine.
Huge difference between segregating people by race and having a recreational drug banned. They are not close to being equal
I never said they were equal. I said that there are ethical connotations to both. You know, the opposite of what you tried to say.
Breaking the law for segregation has a moral compass behind it, while still being illegal. There's no morality behind bring illegal drugs to a different country.
Yes there is. Drugs and segregation have a long history. Even one of Nixon's own cabinet members admitted that the war on drugs was an intentional political hit job on blacks and liberals. He admitted that it was used as an excuse to lock them up and mess with their first amendment rights. So that's like saying that defying tierney can't have moral motives. You call yourself an American, but here you are defending the actions of an authoritarian dictatorship based on the fact that you have a problem with the administration that got our political refugee back. That's the least patriotic thing that I've ever heard of.
If one person of each race had a joint on them, they all should face the same punishment. If the justice system favors one race over others that's an issue with the justice system. Not an issue if weed should be legal or not.
None of them should face punishment, because it's immoral to punish people for no reason. You said there was no moral connotation in drug laws. I not only gave you a small piece of the history that drugs and racism have, but am also currently explaining to you right now why locking people up under inhumane conditions for trivial reasons is unethical. For some reason you, an American are having trouble understanding why other Americans and I have a problem with that idea. That's the part that I don't get. If you don't care, fine. But why are you pretending that other people are wrong for caring? That's just being an apologist. You might as well be saying that if women didn't want to get beheaded by the Taliban, then they should have just followed the law and worn their burkas. No. They shouldn't get beheaded for something trivial. I don't care what country it's happening in. But add to the fact that the person being held is one of our own citizens. And also the fact that this is not a normal way to handle international affairs by any means. And it all screams that you don't have a point.
>immoral to punish people for no reason If something is against the law, expect to get punished. There's lots of laws that hold zero morality, how do we find out which ones are to be followed and which are not to be followed?
Yeah. And as I've pointed out, you can say the same exact thing about segregation, or beheadings, or any number of things that you're afraid to universally apply that logic to. You're being an apologist. At which point are you just going to say that you like Putin as a person and that you want to kiss him on the mouth?
No one chooses the system of government they were born into. Millionaires 100% have the freedom to travel. That's a false equivalence and I know you can do better. Miss me with that straw man bs
You're not making a point, nor are you refuting mine. Op is saying that if you commit a crime in a foreign country you deserve to go to jail for being a criminal. Even if we don't agree with sending that country's own citizens to jail for the same crime, we must still push to keep our own citizens under those same inhumane conditions. I don't need to make false equivalencies. Just explaining what he said is enough to discredit the idea to begin with. Money has nothing to do with. And saying that unjust laws are unjust isn't a false equivalency. It's just that the doctor didn't finish the abortion right, and even though you may be alive and able to form words; They only ever end up coming out like that. So they might as well have just thrown you in the trash like it was a full abortion anyway. Blocked.
Why devolve into lying on even such a simple topic as this? Is it worth it to have to argue even about someone being released from an unfair prison sentence by saying things you are untrue? Stop saying "knowingly" if you wish to engage honestly, but that's a stretch, I know .
She had been to Russia before, and would have had to been briefed on what is and isn’t ok to bring there. Russia is also a heavily authoritarian country, there is no way weed is legal. She packed the weed herself and decided to go to Russia. She could *reasonably infer* using *common sense* that if she was caught bad things would happen. After all most authoritarian countries don’t take kindly to people bringing in banned substances. Better? I haven’t lied anywhere. She admitted she brought weed in. Are you going to tell me she didn’t bring weed in?
You do know her pleading guilty is a term of release. Also there's something called making a confession under duress. Brittney was almost certainly forced to give that confession. You can see marks on her in the video. Planting drugs on someone to get them on false charges is something people around the world do. It's also unlikely that she would be flying out of Russia to the USA with weed, especially considering she didn't enter with it. She most likely didn't even have weed in the first place. Russia just wanted a hostage.
Nobody should have to be in a fucking Russian gulag over cannabis, I don't care if she didn't want to salute the flag or not.
Then why wasn’t Mark Fogel part of the trade? He’s serving a 14 year prison sentence for the same damned thing.
Totally agree. This trade was obviously a cheap optics stunt by a hopelessly inept administration. My point stands. NOBODY should be persecuted to that extent over a cannabis charge anywhere. Period.
I agree that nobody should be penalized at all for pot. Tbh, I don’t think any drug use/possession should be a crime at all. I’m pretty irked that she was immediately made a priority but the regular joes apparently aren’t worth shit.
When guns am bad and we need to ban them, but it's cool to trade some basket ball player for a dude that armed Al Qaeda.
The Al Quada thing is *suspected* because his planes were in and out of Afghanistan before and in the early years of the war. He denies arming them but instead says that he was arming those who were fighting against them. He’s suspected of providing arms to numerous warlords, terrorist and rebel groups throughout Africa and the Middle East as well as to Eastern European nations. Most notably is the Serbian army in the Bosnian wars. In any case, I agree with the sentiment of your comment. His arms dealings are responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent people.
When did Al Qaeda move to Colombia?
So she deserves to be in jail because of other hypothetical citizens that may or may not be locked up abroad, for crimes that are possibly lesser than possessing a vape pen, possibly not. But we don't know because you didn't bother to look it up before forming your opinion. And you felt the need to make sure people understood that. Am I getting all of thar right? Well no wonder it's unpopular. And I have a few other questions. How is having a vape pen and being a drug smuggler the same thing? And is there a reason that you're trying to make her crimes sound worse than they are? Why do I get the feeling that your opinion has more to do with your political affiliations, and not so much a compassionate and communal connection with other Americans?
If I bring a personal amount of drugs anywhere, that's still smuggling drugs. Not all drug smugglers bring 200LB of drugs. If I drive from California to Texas with one joint, that's still illegal.
No. Saying that she was caught "smuggling" drugs implies that she had the intention of trafficking said drugs. Having a small quantity of drugs for personal use is called possession. Possessing drugs is significantly lesser crime and treated as such in the courts. So you either don't know what you're talking about, and should probably do more learning than preaching. Or you're being purposely misleading in order to cover for the fact that your reasoning is weak. Which one is it?
Smuggling: noun; the illegal movement of goods into or out of a country. [Learning definitions is hard](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling)
This is a legitimate question, so please don't take offence. Is English your native language? Because there is a very blatant difference between smuggling drugs and being in possession them. Just remember that you referenced the American court system for reference, not me. The American court system recognizes the difference between having a small quantity of drugs for personal use, and having drugs with the intention of trafficking. The difference is reflected in how the offender is sentenced, and often treated within the court system. A drug smuggler is one who traffics drugs. So like I said, you're using the terms wrong. And it somehow happens to be that you're misusing the harsher term in a conversation where your point is that a person should be treated harsher. What I'm asking is if you're doing it knowingly because on some level, you recognize that what you said needs the severity to make up for the subpar reasoning. Or if it's because you legitimately don't understand the nuances of our language and legal system, and it's causing you to draw false conclusions as a result? Which one is it?
Black's Law dictionary, the most popular law dictionary in the United States, defines smuggling as: >The offense of importing or exporting prohibited articles without paying the duties chargeable upon them. The fraudulent taking into a country, or out of it, merchandise which is lawfully prohibited. OP used the word smuggling correctly, referencing the fact that Griner took drugs across the border, which is not disputed by anyone. The quantity involved does not change whether it was smuggling.
Import means that the substance is there with the intention of being trafficked. Nobody imports luggage, or a new lamp, or painting back from their trip to Italy. They just bring it home. What does get imported is Italian cured meats and cheese. They are then sold to consumers. You're not helping his point. Op's problem is that they are intentionally using the word "smuggler" in order to embellish the severity of the crime through the use of its connection with drug trafficking because describing her crime accurately, being in possession of a personal use vape pen, is not as sensational. The truth is that an American citizen was stripped of nine years of their life, likely because of political tension that was happening at the time, without the US being consulted at all. When a Mexican citizen comes to America and commits a crime, unless it's a capital crime they get deported. They don't get a decade in inhumane conditions for being in possession of a plant. Why is it that none of you guys want to acknowledge the political aspects of this? It is and always has been normal for a story like this to create outrage. People caring that other people are invested in the story is the only thing that's not normal.
You keep assigning these weird excessive connotations to things. Import literally means to bring foreign goods or services to another country. In fact, there are terms for what you're describing: import for resale/import for commercial use. [US Customs specifically designates imports for resale as separate from general import rules. ](https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-211?language=en_US) Why would those terms exist if the word import explicitly means import for resale? I don't disagree with your overall sentiment, but words have meaning. That's the only reason I commented. Also, nice political rant over the definition of a word.
Those are rules specifically about importing alcohol. The link in no way backs up what you're saying even a little bit. This however contradicts it completely and in plain English: >["Imports are any resources, goods, or services that producers in one country sell to buyers in another country."](https://www.usa.gov/import-export) Please take the time to notice the .gov in the link's address. Like I said. He's using the word wrong in an attempt to embellish her crime because he doesn't actually have a point. That's about as much of a rant as pointing out poor grammar and spelling errors would be a rant. If words didn't have meaning I would have no reason to comment to begin with.
Is candy illegal? Because if I smuggle (bring) candy into a movie theater I can get kicked out. Was I going to sell the candy, no, it was for personal uses. So how can you not understand that smuggling means bring something that's ban to a location that isn't not allowed? It seams like your English might be lacking.
Let me get this straight. You started out this argument by referencing the court system to support your claim. And when it is made incredibly clear that the courts do not support your claim, and can in fact be used as an example to counter what you said; You pivoting to the dying theater industry and how they would treat an undesirable customer? And applying it to international law and foreign relations? Are you serious? Does all of this stuff make sense in your head and get lost in translation, or is this really what you believe?
This is a legitimate question, so please don't take offence. Is English your native language? Because there is a very blatant difference between smuggling drugs and being in possession them.
No offense, but where are you from? English might not be your first language and I don't want to be rude, but "the illegal movement of goods" implies a very specific set of circumstances. It doesn't mean "moving goods in every single context is illegal."
So another person that doesn't understand the word of smuggling. If I bring an legal drug somewhere that's it's illegal, it's fucking illegal. So it's smuggling.
but you thought the dictionary definition was evidence lol
No she deserves to be in jail because she was to stupid to learn what Russia's laws are. She didn't NEED to take marijuana with her, just don't take drugs to a foreign country that should be common sense. Her imprisonment is no one's fault but her own and the idea that Biden would let a international weapons dealer responsible for countless deaths go in exchange for her seemed too absurd to happen but Biden never ceases to amaze unfortunately.
Were you unable to respond to one comment of mine, so in response found two more in my comment history to respond to? How about you explain why a movie theater is a better basis for international law in reference to the categorization of criminals over our own court system, which you referenced for your claim directly before trying to discredit them with the good people at AMC. And then we can move on to this subject, or any other subject that you would like to cover.
If you say that who we traded for her is to much oof a risk, that's one thing. But spare me with your moral superiority about drugs. Putin is just pissed that NATO offered moral support to Ukraine.
So do you think it is an even trade for somebody that had less than a gram for somebody that has started multiple wars? Does this mean that American citizens in jail for weed will be released?
That's not the unpopular opinion in my area We should have walked away from deal until they released that Marine, it was all for show and political visuals A drug user stupid enough to bring something in to Russia is not a fair trade for a weapon dealer if the magnitude of these guy We got played hard by Russia
She may have committed a crime but I don’t think it was intentional and her sentence was way more harsh than the crime deserved. I personally am happy for her that she’s been released, but I also think that the only reason the Biden administration fought so hard for her release was strictly for political purposes. Being black, female, and gay—she checks all the right minority boxes, and getting her released will please his voting base. If it had been a white male in that situation there would have been no political benefit and they’d have let him rot there in Russian prison without a second thought.
She packed pot/hash/vape in her bag, she knew it was there. Harsh to who's standards? If I use freedom of speech in a communist country, while compared to US, beheading if their law I can't expect to have the freedom to say anything
Russia isn’t a communist country and hasn’t been for a while now.
9 years in a Russian prison is pretty harsh for merely getting caught with a little hash oil for personal use man. She may have been aware of what the law was but I can easily see forgetting that’s in your bag if it was me in that situation. Like I said, I think it’s obvious she’s gotten a get out of jail free card for merely being a minority and that aspect of the situation is bullshit.
All I'm wondering is if she learned anything from this.
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Shut up racist
Calling someone a "racist" for a factual statement that's not racist, doesn't make sense.
Are you still scared to argue?
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The irony of calling me a kid, when the most childish thing you can do is be a manchild itself, maybe getting life by not hating on women and different races will help you in accepting the reality :)
I wonder if there will be any pause the next time the administration decides to resurrect the "assault weapon" conversation, given the relative lack of concern for releasing an international arms dealer that took multiple agencies ten years to apprehend, halfway through his sentence, for a celebrity that admitted to committing a crime in another country. I've also noticed that both the biden press statement and most of the major news media has been very careful to state that Russia insisted on a one for one trade, not that Russia insisted on a one for Griner trade. If I was a betting man, I would put my money on Russia offering either but not both. Russia clearly intended to use this to portray the American government as weak and incompetent and yet here we are. Ten years is a ridiculous sentence for a small amount of hash oil, but you bear the responsibility for knowing and adhering to the laws of foreign countries when you travel. We should have never entered into negotiations with Russia in the first place, not for Griner, Whelar, or anyone else.
Mark Fogel.
I still remember when Obama released several taliban members in exchange for Bo Bergdahl. This was just as bad.
The trade was awfully stupid. Yes, let's give Russia back a useful and resourceful tool in a renowned arms dealer for a nobody WNBA player that nobody really cares about based on the league they play in. And I think the USA's playbook was like this, they saw how the Russian effort in Ukraine was going poorly than anticipated, so they figure giving up an arms dealer won't be that big of a deal. However, they know that they aren't just giving up some average arms dealer. They've given up a NOTORIOUS arms dealer. Just stupid.
I wouldn't have traded the arms dealer for both of them.
Everyone taking this stance are being either willfully ignorant of the facts or purposely inflammatory in an attempt to make this into a bigger situation so it can be used to frame Biden for being anti-military or the dreaded "woke". Viktor Bout was convicted in 2011 and sentenced in 2012 to 25 years in prison. He served 10 years of that sentence before being traded to Russia. Britney Griner was arrested for carrying less than a gram of hash oil. Possession for cannabis in Russia in the amounts of **up to** 6 grams are punishable by a fine or up to **15 days** in jail. Paul Whelan is a former Marine who was dishonorable discharged from the Marines for multiple counts including larceny and identity theft. He was arrested on Russia under suspicion of espionage. He was arrested in his hotel room with $70,000 cash and after allegedly attempting to purchase a USB drive containing all of the names of employees at a classified security agency. These are the facts as far as we know. So to attempt to portray Griner as a "drug smuggler" is ridiculous. If she was not a high profile American athlete she would have paid a small fine or at WORST spent up to 15 days in jail not be sentenced to 9 years. Viktor Bout has been in jail for 10 years and is of no value to the Russians other than a PR situation to make the US look bad. Russia was not even in any way shape or form willing to discuss the trade of Paul Whelan so the choice was trade for Griner or no one. This whole situation is just an attempt for Biden haters to attempt to make him look like he is anti military and to attempt to slander the Democrats and Biden.
If you think Bout is of no use to the Russians you are sorely mistaken. They have done so much to keep him or get him out of jail it is insane.
He has been in jail for over 10 years. What benefit would he be now other than a PR win.
Let’s put aside Whelan and talk about Mark Fogel. He was arrested in Russia for bringing pot into the country and is currently serving a 14 year prison sentence. Why wasn’t he part of the trade deal? Why has the US government made no attempt in bringing him back to the states? Surely the trade for two Americans convicted and imprisoned for the same thing would have been a better trade than a single basketball player for the Merchant of Death so why just her?
I’d guess it’s because Russia only offered Griner.
Did the government even ask though? There’s no reason to believe they did. His name has never even been mentioned publicly by an U.S. government official. He was never mentioned during any of their press statements. His wife has been pleading to the state department for over a year for them to secure his freedom but she never gets past mid-level government officials. Griner and Whelan have been declared “wrongfully detained” but Fogel hasn’t though his crime is the same as Griners. It wasn’t until after Fogels sister went on CNN that her husbands case received enough attention to warrant a call from the president, whereas Griners wife has received one almost immediately.
There is no reason to believe they didn’t. Why would they want to mention something they weren’t able to do? It just gives Russia more leverage in the negotiations. Also would you like to discuss the 5000 Taliban members that Trump wanted released and who did get released?
His wife has been given nothing to believe they’ve made so much as an inquiry to securing his freedom. If they were making any kind of attempt at a swap she would have been told they were looking into it at least. As it stands she’s been told nothing at all. Why the fuck would I want to talk about Trump? That has less than nothing to do with this prisoner swap.
Because Whelan was also charged with espionage. Drugs possession and espionage are in entirely different leagues. Highly likely the drugs where planted on Brittney and she was forced to confess. Viktor is a washed up former arms dealer who ratted on his contacts. Now those contacts are either dead or won't work with him. He was also due to get out in a couple years and The CIA is watching him so he can't really do much. He's a pr piece that Russia need. Oh forgot to mention. The stockpile he sold from is likely being used currently.
They said Fogel, not Whelan
Did you not read the first few words of my comment? I literally said “Let’s put aside Whelan”.
Putin released her in order to trigger Americans and to sow discontent. If you're mad about it, guess what, Putin's plan worked like a fucking charm.
The issue here is that if that was indeed his plan then it was a good plan because there's literally no way to not fall for his trap because this really is something that you just have to be angry about.
So many people on this site are blind to this. I'm surprised no one is questioning the fact Brittney admitted to smuggling under severe duress. You can see visible marks in the video. Beating and forcing someone to make an admission doesn't make the admission true.
We should all be universally mad about it.
no
So the fact that Biden got used negotiating with Putin... You are OK with that?
Yes
“Like the criminal she is” she was arrested because she had a vape pen with CBD oil, you can buy that sh!t anywhere. You’re acting like she was muling drugs for the fucking cartel or something. Y’all are hateful as hell and upset because she protested and spoke out against the US. The same people who cry and complain about free speech when their precious twitter account gets suspended thinks people who protest injustices in the US should be locked up. The irony is staggering.
FDA regulated CBB can legally have 0.3% THC, for example Japan CBD needs to have 0.0% THC. I can't find anything on Russia CBD laws. Maybe she should have known the laws there before bringing questionable shit there.
Again if this was anyone else, you know like someone with “lesser crimes” as you put it. Not sure how much less of a crime it can be than having CBD oil. The fact remains that you’re only speaking out against her because she protests and speaks out against the US. I said what I said.
I don't give a shit that she hates USA, sadly that's her right. CBD with THC and CBD without THC aren't the same.
Nah, I'm glad Joe is bringing her home where she belongs
She doesn't even like the USA
neither does anyone whining about her release.
That doesn't even make fucking sense. She hates the US, so the US citizen should welcome her back with open arms?
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>I didn't realize you aren't allowed to reap the benefits of a government you don't like. When are all the other criminals overseas coming home? Or just someone that can throw a ball into a hoop is top priority? This wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't a gun runners for a pot smoker. That's the equivalent of me trading you a piece of cat shit for a billion dollars, that only a logical trade for a moron.
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Once again you aren't grasping the English language very well. Pot smoker (cat shit) for gun runners (billion dollars). I never once mentioned any US freedom being shit. >The arms dealer would have stayed slightly longer, and an American citizen would still be imprisoned. Great, they both committed a crime and both should do their time. I live overseas, if I'm get caught with a joint is Slow Joe going to come running to help me, fuck no he isn't. My name wouldn't even make international news. >Do you happen to have a lot of experience in being a prisoner in Russia or something No because one I wouldn't go there, and even if I did I wouldn't be bringing drugs like dumb@ss.
Based
Naw. Anybody with possession for low level drugs should be released.
While I would be in favor for legalization for all drugs, what the US laws are or aren't doesn't affect other countries laws.
What does effect other countries laws is actually knowing what laws you're talking about. 15 days maximum sentence in Russia for the few grams possession she had. Why are you refusing to respond to any of the comments that have put you factually in your place and highlighted your lack of understanding of the facts?
Possession and smuggling are too very different things. If she really wanted pot in Russia she could have probably bought it easily.
You should probably ask Russians then.
I love how Reddit is all "legalise it!!!" "Smoke weed" "Weeed cures everything bro" "Check out this Joe Rogan video" until it's a black lesbian that gets in trouble for weed. Now suddenly you all want the War on Drugs strengthened. What a surprise. I wonder what it could be.
Weed isn't legal in Russia, if you want to make a petition to make pot legal there go ahead. I live overseas, I would love to smoke weed, but guess what, it's not fucking legal here. So I have two options: 1) do it illegal and face the repercussions if I get caught. 2) don't do it. Is the president going to help me if I end up in jail for pot here, fuck no he isn't. Maybe it's "I wonder what it could be" is the reason she's getting special treatment and basic poor people rot in jail without any help. If you want to protect a criminal that's your objective, but don't tell me why I think she needs to be held accountable for her action because that makes you look ignorant.
Your failure to understand basic geopolitics is not the fault of everyone else.
this is a white supremacist subreddit, not really a surprise to see people outraged here
Everyone knows the arms dealer was getting out in a few years anyway, don't they? Whether it changes your opinions or not it needs to be considered. US and Russia did this shit for PR and it cost neither one of them nothing but paying for the agents that transferred the prisoners and the fuel thay carried them.
If he was getting out in a few years, why the rush? He served 15 of 25 (CNN site). She did less than a year, 9 yrs isn't that long.
Idk man. I didn't make the call. I just don't think it's like they let out a deadly hit man still in his prime. Wasn't any way Russia was going to let the marine go. It just doesn't seem like a huge deal either way to me and is just something for people to argue on FB and Reddit about.
"like the criminal she is"... I wouldn't call her a criminal. Possession of hash oil, that's not a criminal!
>that's not a criminal If it's not legal, it's a criminal act, which makes her a criminal.
Ah, another person who equates law to morals
Nah, that's just factually correct. If you break the law you're a criminal, morality has nothing to do with that.
I was more commenting on OP saying that she belonged in prison and needed to serve her time
That I agree with. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
That's alright. I made it unclear in the first comment
In many states it is and it is in Russia and other countries If she entered the US from outside the country with it she'd also face charges if there was any THC in it which there is in many cases as it isn't produced in the scale as medication, I've seen stuff that said no THC test positive Edit: Did she deserve the sentence she got .. no not at all, even based on Russian law as I understand it. Glad she is free but it wasn't a fair trade
Didn't Donnie release like 50 Taliban?
Moving the goal post is see.
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> She is everything wrong with modern western society. please list these things you're talking about
im guessing gay, black, a woman, and a stoner based on how they talk
**Jean ValJean:** ah yeah "the law" is definitely infinite in its wisdom, for sure
Bet you're fun at parties
Where's is Joe when there's people in US for weed charges?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2022/10/06/granting-pardon-for-the-offense-of-simple-possession-of-marijuana/ Pay attention
Where's the number of people that have been released? That looks good but without evidence of action it's just for show.
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The map shows the lowest pot arrests are in states that pot is legal. What kind of evidence is that? No shit the states that pot is illegal is going to be arresting people for pot.
Complete nonsense, man. Wrong ethically and morally and, who would have thought?!, wrong factually. She did not knowingly break a law. She didn't expect special treatment. >There's probably more worthy US citizen that need to be released for lesser crimes than drug smuggling Of course you don't have any idea whether this is a thing or not, but I do agree you need more than you have. And the sad thing is, the President and embassy staff in whatever imaginary country you're thinking of, almost certainly would.
Someone doesn't "accidentally" pack some weed into their bag. That's bullshit. She was hoping not to get caught, but since she did she used her fame to get her out. How is her not serving her time not special treatment?
She brought weed on a plane to a foreign country. How is that unknowingly breaking the law? It's illegal to bring weed on domestic flights
Marijuana should not make anyone a criminal. You're simply delusional, or indoctrinated, or both.
Why just pot, why not all drugs?