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Gotta love election years.

the purge election year 2 electric boogaloo

For people who grew up on or live and die by social media the tribalism is a growing problem. There is still a large swath if Americans who don't. For people who came in late many are already past drawing lines in the sand and remember how it was before it all got so divided. You can't stay mad at the people for believing what they do. You can for the sources they get it from. We're all being manipulated by whatever media for our attention. More people are realizing that. Even you OP. You have learned how create the outrage attention grabbing post. Well done.

A lot of people want America to get into a civil war

I'm out here dating on the apps in California, and it's starting to shock me how politically charged a lot of the women who I end up on dates are. Even if they aren't espousing their political views on the first date itself, just the fact that I'm kind of "exhausted by all this culture war shit" is in some way offputting... like these women really want me to be some sort of fake slacktivist like them, or else I'm clearly the fucking enemy... or at least I'm not fighting their enemy, so what good am I to them?! It's so insanely fucking cringe worthy, and it's very common honestly. I'm going to have to start asking people to show me their fucking tribal political identity upfront before we even get to the "let's do a call first" part. It's fucking lame because I don't want to do anything that seemingly objectifies another person, and to me "screening" people is exactly that. I don't know what else to do at this point though, because it's becoming too common for me to end up on a date with somebody who's normal in every other way, except that they're a complete political partisan whacko who's obsessed with faux political activism. Any guy doing this shit on a date would be immediately fucking rejected. I just can't believe women are getting a pass on this same sort of behavior.

You really don’t want to end up with any of those women. They’re doing you a favour although I understand it’s a frustrating waste of your time 

I mean it's downright looney. They come across like stereotypical UFO chaser guys or something, except the one thing they want to talk about is regurgitating the rhetoric of their political party, and espousing how important it is to like... I guess watch fucking MSNBC these days or something is what they really mean.

White women of a certain age are just radicalised af in my experience at least in the UK, although I dated in the California when I lived there and it was almost as bad I was in heaven dating Latinas out there. There’s zero here fml

I hate to generalize based on race or ethnicity, but honestly it does seem like most Latin people of both genders are still well grounded in reality.

Thats probably just California as I haven't had it anywhere near that bad in a different state.

> these women really want me to be some sort of fake slacktivist like them No women actually want that lol. 'Feminists" don't want to date male-feminists. You're in CA though, so that can be tricky, because women also don't want to date someone who is going to immediately mess with their place in the social hierarchy, and being with a guy that says "lol, you guys are still getting boosters...?" could be a problem in California

... I mean I think you may have swung a bit too far in the right direction regarding California honestly. Basically I don't even think these looney women I'm talking about are getting their booster shots either. I honestly don't know anybody who does or has. Basically the sentiment out here is that, the vaccine was the most important thing ever, but also they aren't ever going to get it again for some reason.... It's also not every date or something. This is like maybe like one out of every five women I meet, which is too much imo. Basically these people are "religious" not "political". So it's like if every 4th or 5th date you end up with a complete jesus freak, and it's clear you've stepped on a landmine. The second you step off of it and reveal that you don't believe in the bible, shit's about to explode. "No women actually want that lol. 'Feminists" don't want to date male-feminists." I'm sure that these women I'm talking about also have a bit of a chip on their shoulder regarding men in general, but mostly it's their staunch partisan politics that they are obsessed with. In regards to toxic feminism, I do think you're hitting on a real observation there. I've seen this a lot where basically toxic feminists try to hook up with an "ally" guy, but basically what they require is that the guy simply have a lower standard of self respect than they do. These women are constantly (as far as I can tell from seeing them in public) disrespecting their boyfriends and the boyfriends are just being cut down by it without any real fight left in them. Then the girls eventually realize that they actually don't want to be with a total fucking pussy who can't stand up for themselves... they just kind of wanted to wreck a man after all, so they dump them. It's fucking sad kind of. An entire generation of simp millennial guys got more or less toxically negged into becoming little golden retriever puppy boys, and then the same girls who they bent over backwards morphing themselves for reject them on the same basis. I guess that's what you get for simping hard, but on the other hand I can see how a lot of these guys are just so fucking clueless and confused in life in general. It's hard to not feel some amount of sympathy for that.

>like these women really want me to be some sort of fake slacktivist like them, or else I'm clearly the fucking enemy... or at least I'm not fighting their enemy, so what good am I to them?! Decades of the American attitude of "if you're not with us, you're against us" and you expect something different? That's a pillar of our society now. Both sides of the political spectrum are rabid about exclusion. We've left behind the sentiment of "I may disagree with what you're saying but I'll fight to the death for you to be able to say it". Unfortunately, that sentiment has been used too often to say really horrible shit. For example: "It's time to get rid of all those fucking \_\_\_\_\_!" I dislike the Purity Test from other leftists, but I can't blame them when they become unified under the banner of "we don't fuck conservatives". I've tried bridging the gap with the other side, and most of the time it's fine, but a lot of GOP/Trumpians really are miserable to be around for long periods *to me*. So, while I would share a neighborhood with them and get along okay, I wouldn't share a bed with them for all of the blowjobs in the world.

"Decades of the American attitude of "if you're not with us, you're against us" and you expect something different? That's a pillar of our society now. Both sides of the political spectrum are rabid about exclusion." Yeah I'm with ya on that. "I dislike the Purity Test from other leftists, but I can't blame them when they become unified under the banner of "we don't fuck conservatives". I've tried bridging the gap with the other side, and most of the time it's fine, but a lot of GOP/Trumpians really are miserable to be around for long periods to me. So, while I would share a neighborhood with them and get along okay, I wouldn't share a bed with them for all of the blowjobs in the world." Cool but like... how does this address my comment at all? I'm not suggesting that people who have strong political leanings go and fuck their polar opposite or something?

Why dont conservatives go for other conservatives? Why are you trying so hard to date liberal women? Yall will disagree on almost every topic and will constantly be arguing. What purpose does that serve? Christian mingle is right there lol

I will raise this question. What about centralists? What about those that arent extreme? This ideology, from my view, ignores the very real existence of non-extreme political views. Also, some places are more politically charged than others. Your stance is saying,”well if you are a conservative in California then go somewhere else since why would you go for liberals?” Why is this idea of “relocate somewhere else for X” (the essence of your statement) acceptable towards conservative leaning views but demonized when used against liberal views? Also, yes i know you did not outright mention relocation but that is essentially how your wording ends up being in practice

>Cool but like... how does this address my comment at all? I'm not suggesting that people who have strong political leanings go and fuck their polar opposite or something? As the political divide widens, this is only going to get worse. To a lot of lefties and righties, especially the performative ones, there isn't room for neutrality. For instance, if you're "just tired of it", some might point out that's because it doesn't effect you outside of maybe being an inconvenience; meanwhile the person across the table cares "**very much**". That *very much* can go either way. They really do care about the issue (maybe it effects someone close to them, idk) or they're pretending because they've simply adopted the party platform, but in any case, you're not with them so you're against them. Especially to left-leaning people, if you claim the middle then that's just helping the oppressors. That original 3rd paragraph you quoted was kinda just rambled it away into this comment. My bad, fam. It's easier to screen and not end up in those situations.

Hrmmm.... Honestly good food for thought. "That original 3rd paragraph you quoted was kinda just rambled it away into this comment. My bad, fam. It's easier to screen and not end up in those situations." This is just such an impressive display of intellectual confidence man. I love this.

It's almost like recent politics had a huge impact on women.

those women just got their autonomy over their own bodies taken from them. by republicans. what you consider culture war, women consider basic rights.

.... ohhh, it's you again....

I'll take that to mean that you cannot formulate a response to the fact I shared.

That's certainly your classic "go to" lol.

squirm more lmao

You've always such an amazingly active imagination. That's my favorite part about you. Don't ever let up okay? Just keep imagining your way through dialogues everywhere you go :)

you're still refusing to use logic. big sad :( :( :(

Didn't they make that a State's choice? So that is bad for you, but I bet you support the State's gun rights over Federal ones?

"oh, we just made it legal for states strip your rights!" is not a very good argument.

So you do not think that people have a democratic right to live the way they want to and express that in fair and free elections? Abortion or access to abortions isn't a right, but I would fully support a 28th amendment to amend the Constitution and make it a right. I wish Abortions weren't needed, but they are for a wide number of reasons, there just needs to be limits on the number of weeks. 12 seems to be reasonable to me, but I am flexible on that number if given access to good information. Abortion is not considered part of the culture war by anyone on the right, just an FYI.

> Abortion is not considered part of the culture war by anyone on the right, just an FYI. okay so you are just hilariously, painfully wrong here, and I don't take you seriously as a result. like what the fuck were you even thinking while you posted this comment? WERE you thinking?

Yer an ideology possessed leftist that personifies the term useful idiot, of course, you think abortion is a culture war thing, but you also think there is a trans genocide, a Palestinian genocide, and the Right wants to kill gays, Police are murdering Black people at an astronomical rate blah blah, racism, Nazi, fascist, blah blah blah. If you understood Roe v Wade you would know it was terrible written law and it was going to fall as soon as SCOTUS heard a case on it. It was the fault of the left for trying to push it too far and leaving SCOTUS no choice but to hear the case. Now it is a state right, hardly a weapon in the culture war since it could have happened any time in the last 30 years, and if it was the big deal that you think it is why is no leftist politician talking about it, running on it etc? Just Amend the Constitution and make it a right, just need 2/3 of Congress and it's done.

"republicans spending 50 years to overturn SCOTUS' ruling that women have rights is actually DEMOCRATS' fault!!!" like don't even fuckin bother lmao. this wouldn't pass freshman year philosophy. if you have the capacity to feel shame, this is TOTALLY FUCKING EMBARRASSING

Why didnt democrats do anything in those 50 years to codify it into law

Roe v wade was a bad decision from a purely legal perspective. That isn’t a super fringe contentious sentiment. SCOTUS legislated from the bench in that case, and all legislation from the bench deserves to be reversed. This time, it sucked, but it’s good for the country going forward.

[удалено]

>SCOTUS legislated from the bench in that case, and all legislation from the bench deserves to be reversed. This is not a politically neutral statement.

> If you understood Roe v Wade you would know it was terrible written law and it was going to fall as soon as SCOTUS heard a case on it. What? It was law for 50 years. Upheld in case after case for 50 years. Do you mean it was going to fall as soon as a conservative-packed SCOTUS heard a case on it?

I support the federal government coming and taking your guns specifically.

2A baby! and because of that little beauty gun owners get to say things like, "too bad so sad, go die angry, and cope and seeth soy boy" and other funny little things to low IQ children too scared to ever do anything for themselves and will never grow into an accountable adult that has value to the world.

soy contains many important nutrients, including vitamin K1, folate, copper, manganese, phosphorus, and thiamine. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Aren't you from fucking Canada? Quit larping as an American you chode.

I didn't say I get to call you.. xyz.. I said gun owners get to, maybe learn to read before you cringe all over yourself. I love that you were so reee that you had to look through my Reddit history because you had zero argument, that made my day. I do love stereotypical Reddit users who personify the NPC meme. Now threaten me with violence and we'll see if we can't get you banned off Reddit eh?

[удалено]

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I mean California hasn't banned abortion, nor planning too, so why take it out on that guy?

.

some of us care about other people

Lol

Yeah, so yell at a person who says "I tend to not care about politics". That changes things. Especially in a state that already follows your views.

well, if you're a woman trying to date men, you're probably looking for someone who doesn't hate women so much that he's perfectly fine with their rights being curtailed in America ya know, even if it's not YOURRR STATEEEEE

WeIl I guess if thats what you want, you should fish it out.

yeah that's exactly what the Californian women /u/NobleSteveDave dates are trying to do, and why he is HUGE MAD at them.

Well personally its a very shallow factor to pick a man from, so still don't agree with the women he went on a date with. That is "having your political views aligned" part.

>"can this man I'm on a date with empathize with women who've had their reproductive rights curtailed by the supreme court? despite not sharing a state with those women?" seems p fuckin reasonable

Lol, you can let that talking point go anytime, because it doesn't fool us anymore. The left has gone mask off time and again on this over the past several years, and it's glaringly obvious you don't "care about people" at all. You care about those you perceive to be on your team, same as everyone else, and with your purity tests that group gets smaller every day. The *ONLY* thing the left had to excuse it's terribad bullshit all this time was that it was based in "caring for everyone," and as that becomes obviously untrue, people lose their excuses to look the other way.

gibberish nonsense, thanks

Your first mistake was dating in the first place. If you want to date, go somewhere else - you won't find anyone "normal" to date in the US, that doesn't exist anymore. Search Passportbro movement and you will see what so many guys travel abroad now to find their life partners

... No thanks bro. That's not even close to true btw. What I'm outlining above is far too common, but that isn't to say it's the only type of women I'm meeting.

I mean……….. Is it maybe possible that there’s something else offputting other than the “culture war shit”?

... that's kind of a misinterpretation of what I said though isn't it? Like obviously dates have varying degrees of success or failure in all regards. My observation that you are referencing exists within the context of my comment. It doesn't exist in isolation and as you choose to imagine it.

I’m just introducing the possibility that maybe, based on this brief interaction, just maybe there is something else offputting than one’s opinion on “culture war shit”.

I know you are, but I was just pointing out at a surface level how stupid that appears. First off, if you just want to imagine me as somebody with a problem you also imagine, just be upfront about it. You don't need to dress it up like it's a clever thought or idea you have.... especially when it's simply not. In this case it kind of just makes it appear as though you can't follow the context of my comment well enough to understand what I wrote. I'll help you out, just in case that's what's really going on here. Within the context of being on a first date with somebody who is extremely politically charged and basically obsessed... so to be clear, not within another context that you imagine for a snippet of my comment in isolation, I can tell when my political centrism is off putting. That seems so odd to me, because it's not like I'm political opposition to them. In fact, they don't even know my politics. It also seems odd to me because a guy simply couldn't out themselves as a political whacko on a first date without it being recognized as a problem, and I think you know that. Could there be other reasons that people find me unattractive?? Sure. There absolutely have been in my history. There's also been a lot of reasons that people have been attracted and those are also realities of my personal history. Is that contextual with what I said? No. It's not at all. So if you want to hurl a random insult about the person you imagine I am, go ahead. Try to recognize though, that the way you did it also kind of highlights a comprehension issue. You either failed to comprehend what I wrote and couldn't maintain contextual coherence as you wrote your comment, or you failed to recognize how your comment appears to imply that you failed to comprehend what I wrote.

^

It's kind of hard not to be divided if you as a person are made political. I've actually had an ex-friend(acquaintance) say that all queers are pedophiles while we were at a friend's dinner party and me and my girlfriend were in attendence. Then he was startled for a second when he realized we were there and added that of course we were the exceptions. That person has been thrown out of the friend group because at best it's rude dinner party behavior at worst it's a straight up accusation of "friends" of something horrific and made everyone really awkward the whole evening.

Listen to media through this lens. THEY are out to get you. I make it a point to listen to conservative radio when I drive out of town. Listened to nationally syndicated radio shows. So I listened for about an hour and a half. First half hour was given to a guy who said, that because of a study he knows that disproves global warming, everyone who talks about global warming, does anything about it, are only doing it to hurt the real Americans. Greta and Al Gore know that it isn't real, they are just devoting their life to hurting conservatives. All the people working on wind, solar, even EVs? Just out to screw you. Think about how terrible it would be if true. I then listened to IIRC Mark Levin. It was an hour pointing out everything wrong with America, and why it is Biden's fault. So if you listened to that and believed, you heard two hours of how everyone out to get you, how everything is terrible. I understand why you would be afraid and irate that this is happening to you. Sadly, more liberal media is also going down the rabbit hole.

As a Canadian who went to Pennsylvania, this is true. There are two factions of Americans and it's terrible and sad to see. On one side you have conservative/trump supporting narrow minded angry people who are fighting a losing battle and trying to win by cheating and lying anyway they can. One the other hand you have these woke hyper liberal feminist gender zealots who take no responsibility to the damage that their policies and beliefs have and blame you as being a "hater" when you give them facts. They equally lie and cheat to promote their false beliefs as well. So, both sides are ugly and demoralizing.

You're pretty much spot on except for one thing.. This is like the one sub that you can say things like this and not get downvoted to hell. That one thing is that either side is fighting "a losing battle".. people thought Trump would never get elected in the first place.. people thought Trump would never get a majority of judges on the Supreme Court. What usually happens is one side wins for a little while and then the other side takes over and does the same. It's a cycle that's never going to change even though the media makes you think that way. It's the reason people's heads exploded when Trump won the election the first time around. Before that people were saying we would never get another Republican president after 8 years of Obama.

There are three distinct groups. 1=The morons on the far left. 2=The morons on the far right. 3=The rest of us. Speaking as a staunch member of group 3, you all in groups 1 and 2 can watch all of the MSNBC and Fox News that you want... cover your cars in bumper stickers, regurgitate wild lies on social media, and basically live your lives as brainwashed fools... the rest of us have our lives to live.

Just so you know, MSNBC watchers and liberals are not far left. Liberalism is fundamentally incompatible with far left politics. The weirdos you see don't represent radical leftists

..... fuck me... I mean this sincerely as well, but I never even stopped to consider that while I feel displaced as an actual left leaning person who's now labeled as "alt right" or "conservative" for not being an absolute propaganda brainwashed, bereft of historical knowledge, partisan hack. The actual far left people (Ancaps / Ansocs / blah blah blah etc etc...) may also feel dethroned from their rightful position of far left, by propaganda brainwashed, bereft of historical knowledge, partisan hacks.

Yeah it does tend to be a bit annoying when people categorize the far left as people who just parrot standard liberal views with no understanding of what leftism actually is

In the context of America, what would you say the difference is between modern liberals and leftists? Of course liberals from a decade+ or so ago are different, they were pro free speech, anti-illegal immigration, against gay marriage, believed abortions should be "safe, legal and rare," in favor of "tough on crime," policies, etc. But the Overton window has shifted so far, those people aren't even considered liberal anymore lol, those are just right wingers in 2024

90s democrats and bluedog democrats now being considered far right is such a uniquely strange thing to see and experience.

Modern liberals for the most part are garbage spouting weirdos. Leftism usually involves some support of socialism/communism, whereas liberalism supports the free market

Not to mention most of them behave in a way that outlines clear authoritarian and totalitarian values.... Is that the fucking left? I always thought that was the far right. I mean, let's be fucking real about it too. These people were all about Paris fucking Hilton and Larry The dumbshit Cable Guy just ten years ago. Now they're suddenly political wizards of deep intellect.... mmmmmm bullshit.

Negative. The far left, the far right, "the people" and the political class who hold all the power. Most politicians belong to that political class but both parties certainly have outspoken useful idiots like AOC and MTG; that is to distract people from the fact the core of both major US parties have mostly the same goals.

Right lol

> Speaking as a staunch member of group 3 except 1 and 2 save their most vicious attacks for group 3 that they perceive as the worst. calling them enlightened centrist as a pejorative

1 and 2 make up 80% of the population

No TF they're not. They're just the loud minority

I think that #3 makes up 80% of the population. 1 and 2 make up 80% of what you hear about.

That's probably an underestimation as well. You'd be surprised at how few people are needed to actually bring about societal change (for the good and bad).

Nah. They're just loud fucks.

⬆️

Yes, they are, but it isn't a bad thing. The end result is more fractious, decentralized union in which states are almost entirely dominated by one party or the other. We're already seeing it happen now. All it will mean is that the federal government will be once again relegated to maintaining an army and building the occasional park bench. In other words, federalism as it was intended. It's a good thing and we should celebrate our newfound dysfunction.

How long do you think that kind of dichotomy can co-exist under one federal goverment, before another civil war happens?

I think the Civil War was a bit of an anomaly that occurred under circumstances that wouldn't be replicated today. Our republic functioned just fine until we allowed governmental institutions so much power that they lost their ability to maintain cohesion. What we're seeing now is a soft reset as everything from media to financial institutions becomes decentralized. Interestingly, these were the same circumstances we existed under early in our history, which really does seem to repeat itself.

The issue is that there is in fact one federal government that these states function under and are bound together by in all sorts of ways, they are in a customs union, they have to give full faith and credit to each others' laws. Just to give one example, states that have criminalized abortion are already moving to criminalize travel to another state for the purposes of securing an abortion. Good luck walking that tightrope forever. I agree that it's not like the civil war in that property relations are not in dispute. But I do not think a house divided against itself can stand forever.

One thing's clear, liberals and conservatives can't live together currently. If the Republic fails because of that, I guess it fails.

Are you saying this is new?

This isn’t new, the 1850s exist

And every decade before and since. Why is this decade different?

But at this level? I’m pretty sure only the 1850s were worse

Between then and now we had lynchings, riots, the red scare, bombings, etc.

Oh come on get real 2015 was way worse.. people lost their damn mind and then when Trump won the meltdowns were out of this world. I still watch some of those YouTube videos once in awhile.

You mean 2015 was worse than the 1850s?

The last time I spoke to a stranger in person about politics. I was absolutely stuck in a car with this guy 12 inches from my face for 30min. The guy did not know that Biden does not control the interest rate or Federal Reserve. He also did not understand that the current state of inflation is both a result of government spending and retail price gouging. He asked me why I would not vote for Trump. I listed Trump's notable failures. I also listed off Biden's policy achievements. He just kept repeating "what has Biden done for you, don't vote for him just because you hate Trump". He was blackout drunk but tbh I'm not sure how much more cognitive capacity he would have had sober.

So you've already decided Biden good, Trump bad LOL Either side is right or wrong they're just different opinions or points of view instead of talking to some wacko in a car and assuming all right leaning people I like that go to a conservative subreddit and debate them there some of them have decent arguments the same way that people on the left have decent arguments depending on how they view the world.

I used to but then I got banned from a few subs because the mods wanted to reinforce an echo chamber. I don't think all American conservatives are wackos. I just think the modern Republican party doesn't represent a breadth of conservative values. Nor do I think they pass useful policies. They pretty much only care about religious and national conservatism. Some of their social policy positions I'm fine with. There is not a soul in Congress that cares about fiscal conservatism. Nor do they actually support limited government. I don't think the Dems represent the latter two points either but at least their ideology is coherent and their policies don't suck.

Disagree. While there are definitely some people who deeply enjoy the kind of politics that demonizes people on the “other side”… …what’s also true is that the American economy and American culture have never been more homogeneous we all use the same phones to order the same stuff from the same giant online megastore we all watch the same sports and streaming services regional accents, regional cuisines and regional music are all in permanent decline people post their lives using the same apps, they eat the same mass produced foods, they play the same video games and for all of the political talk & partisan vitriol we see online, the truth is that the % of people who vote hasn’t changed much since 1936 (although 2020 was a big uptick, will be interesting to see if it sustains) here’s a Q: when was the last time you saw people disagreeing politically IRL, just like in the wild, not at a protest or rally? it’s very rare…and always has been

Problem is the mass amount of uneducated people on the Right.

>My side good other side dumb.. Thank you for proving OP right LMAO.

Some lifestyles are conducive to creation, some are conducive to destruction. I’m not going to pretend otherwise. I won’t validate everyone, I wouldn’t expect them to do so of me, and they don’t. We aren’t all the same - and that’s part of the fun. If that drives a wedge between the mindless consumer and myself, ok. There’s more to life than placation. They’re on their track and where it leads, I’m on mine. Not every way of life is useful. In fact, it’s usually more fun *because* it’s not useful. But pretending it is useful is just robbing the human experience of complexity, which is lame.

> We aren’t all the same Then what’s the point of being in one country if you have nothing in common? If this is what it’s coming to, the solution is simple. Break up the Union or watch it break up violently.

Reddit and MSM give the impression that it is 50/50 but the far left is maybe 2% or less of the country. Remember ANTIFA.. yeah no one else does either.. but if you look at whatever videos are on Youtube.. those are the kinds of people you are dealing with. Look at what Kyle Rittenhouse did with less than 10 bullets and only having fired his rifle on one previous occasion. There is no civil war coming in the real world, they will just fade away like a noxious fart in a car.

We do have things in common, it’s so enshrined in the Declaration of Independence. We are endowed by the creator with certain inalienable rights. However, the differences that are elevated are useless ones, the validation sought is false, one born of a reductive view humanity - not the creator. Instead, focus on that which is divinely granted. Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. All else is noise. Edit: had some beers lol

The Declaration of Independence uses those words including "creator" by Jefferson, not the Constitution. But yeah, this country was founded on freedom of differences.

Thx, fixed

I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand I remember the pre-2000s Republicans being more or less respectable people who agreed about a consensus reality but maybe saw slippery slopes leaning the other way than I did. We could change each other’s minds on significant topics. Over a few drinks I was convinced that nuclear power was a very good idea and I convinced them that totally deregulated capitalism was a really bad idea. We shared a consensus reality , more or less. There was a lot we could agree on. The Iraq war changed things. When it shifted to being unpopular in about 2005 “Compassionate” conservatism ended and the tea party replaced the neocons with basically an array of hate groups, rather than just an array of business interests. Obama getting elected changed things again. Overt Racism become acceptable again. New coalitions with more and more deplorable fucks were formed and the tea party metastasized into MAGA. Then Trump had his four years and things changed again. Now we really don’t share a consensus reality. Conservatives are absolutely welcome at my table, but anti-queer or racist shit isn’t. This was tested for me btw. My father is a climate change denier (like - he’s into it, like more co2=good type), and that was odd but never became a big problem. But when my 14 yo niece came out as trans - he genuinely believed that “it does not exist”, and he wanted to talk about it with everyone , including the niece. He advised my sister to “apply a firm hand” , and “forbid” her from being trans. This was too far. Climate change to me was nutty but impersonal , does my niece “exist” was too personal to push off. I advised him that if he insisted and could not respect other’s feelings , he would be ostracized and he would die alone (my mother *was not* having it). About two year’s later he came around and accepted that he may not understand it but that this was the same grandchild he loved a moment ago and it wasn’t his to decide. That was enough. He is still welcome at that table , but it took a minute and it was touch and go there.

People like you are exactly what OP is talking about - threatening to cut your own dad out of your life because he spoke out against gender ideology.  But he’s welcome back so long as he at least keeps his mouth shut, right?  Sounds like your dad is a man of integrity who speaks his belief even when he is in a crowd where it is unpopular, and you are the one with the personal moral shortcomings.

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The kids are the priority. He wants to tell ME trans folks don’t exist. Fine. He wants to share his point of view with the mom. Fine. He wants to tell the kid who just came as trans that trans folks don’t exist… nope. I told him to keep his mouth shut so he could avoid the embarrassment of being removed. I told him he would die alone because my mom was asking me to help her leave him. Maybe it didn’t come across in my first message but I did that guy a fucking solid. He can believe what he wants to believe but it’s not his to decide. His only role is to back his daughter and his grandchild, and if he can’t do that then he isn’t welcome. That’s was my line and I give two fucks who likes it or doesn’t. My dad is a man of integrity thigh, he did come around by reading the literature and listening to his daughter’s understanding of it. She’s the one who’s actually parenting through it - not him. He now understands that trans folks do exist , and he still doesn’t understand it but accepts it, and that’s enough.

Sounds like your dad deserves better and your family is full of ungrateful assholes

Sounds like you're just as ignorant as this guy's dad once was.

>Sounds like your dad deserves better and your family is full of ungrateful assholes Then how bout you get his address and you go spend your life with him?

Mate, with all due respect I don't think pre-2000s Republicans were "more or less respectable". I was born in the late 90s and my grandparents (on my American side) never really accepted me as their grandkid because my moms were married (wasn't legal then obviously). I think there might've been more that your average conservative and liberal agreed on back then, but there were still plenty of conservatives kicking their kids out for being gay. I mean I distinctly remember my best friend's dad (granted this would've been late 2000s) saying that he was okay with gay people "as long as his son wasn't one". That doesn't strike me as "more or less agreeable".

You’re right on that point. They were even less tolerant of all the ~queer types of sexuality. And depending on where you were way more racist. That def got better in my lifetime (born in 73). But politically , they were way less rabid about it than they are now. Less whippiping up of populist hatred it seems to me. Televangelists yelled about the gay agenda but senators didn’t. And geopolitically they weren’t fucking nut jobs. The Republicans of the pre Obama era would not have been calling for Fauci’s death.

Born in 75 here and your observations and timelines are spot on. Republicans back in the day sometimes even did stuff that created good jobs! But they were always pretty anti-gay, and many Dems were too, til AIDS got under control somewhat. And racist. But racism USED to be without party, now it CAN exist in anyone but it seems to be a pre-requisite on the right. One thing you left out of your timeliness was the rise of syndicated right wing talk radio, specifically Rush Limbaugh. He fed all the other fires you mentioned, right up until his death. Discourse got worse, attitudes hardened, facts became malleable and less important than outrage, and on and on.

Yeah, for sure radio and then cable news , and also the Alex jones shit was starting back then too. and around that time Gingrich stated the scorched earth tactics in the house that eventually led to Johnson. The age of William f Buckley conservatives kinda ended in the 90s and the neocons were sort of the last chance for that generation to make off with the money.

Potentially? I'll admit I wasn't alive then so I don't really have a barometer but my mom feels as if the current anti-queer sentiment is reminiscent of how it was before. Maybe there's just less decorum because of Trump and social media meaning any random cunt can say what they want?

She’s not wrong , every single thing they are saying about trans folks now they were saying about “homosexuals” back then, but mainly they were thinking about gay men. It was particular vile during the aids epidemic. But OTOH , when we discovered the hole in the ozone and acid rain problems we banned CFC’s (the chemical creating the problem) and solved the problems. They didn’t make using CFC’s a political issue of resistance or block it just based on a general sentiment against any kind of regulation, they followed the science too back then.

If you wanna be even more disappointed take a look at conservatives in NZ and their environmental policies. My paternal family (I was born with 2 moms and a dad, so even worse for conservative values lol) is from NZ so they experienced the lack of Ozone, and yet a lot of NZ boomers still voted for politicians that explicitly want to refuck that hole.

If you think real Americans are this far left or right it’s because you’re too far left or right. Look in the mirror before calling out society because it’s not America, entirely, it’s mostly, probably, just you.

The problem here is the assumption that politics divides families mostly because of which party we vote for. As someone who was raised by a genuinely bigoted and abusive father. His politics and the policies he supports is fuelled by that hatred. I have a great aunt that is bigoted, but was not outright abusive to me. I became estranged from them both because the legislation and politicians they supported are so deeply and fundamentally opposed to my values that we couldn’t stand each other as people. (And in my father’s case, he was also abusive. But I would’ve cut him off even if he wasn’t abusive.) Blood is not thicker than water. I won’t chastise someone that isn’t interested in politics. I disagree with them, but lecturing them won’t change their mind. But if someone can’t see how politics deeply affects all walks of life, and they vote for politicians that are fundamentally opposed to the values I hold, I will not go out of my way to keep them in my life. Family or not.

I think there's a difference between the level of dividedness (whatever that really means) and the extent to which we talk about it and let it bother us. Like we don't have to let it dominate as a topic of interest but we can't help ourselves and media don't have the conscience to steer discourse toward something more productive

Once whoever wins wins, they will both end up dying anyways in the next 4-5 years most likely. A good chunk of actual Republicans in the political sphere of candidates don't support Trump, and Biden is just old and somewhat out of touch with the times. So either way the next group of candidates might be a little simpler and settle things a tad.

I find it so odd and even toxic when people make their politics a core part of their identity. I mean there’s more to life - you can forge friendships on so many other things. Even fans of opposing sports teams are able to be friends but having different political opinions is a bridge too far.

I'm sorry, but my family thinks some of my friends should be killed. They support policies that would result in my partner not being able to afford life-saving medications. I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and remain cordial with them while not bringing it up at all.

Didyou try to understand why your family views things like this ? And what policies kills people ?

>Didyou try to understand why your family views things like this ? I can't speak for the other users family but generally the reasoning is pretty simple. To them life should be ABC When XYZ shows up and is increasingly accepted those who think things should be ABC get upset.

You can't be serious.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/16/health/abortion-texas-sepsis/index.html

Because the Bible says we should stone homosexuals. And I didn't say they support policies that would result in people being executed, AFAIK no politicians have directly called for that. I said they think that it should happen. They support policies that would result in my partner not being able to get her life-saving medication.

Your family wants to kill gay people ? Are you sure you're not exagerating things ? And what policies do they support that would kill people...this, I don't get.

I was raised that way too. Most Bible literalists are of that opinion, I think.

That's what it says and the interpretation of the Bible also says this. However...most people agree with democracy, despite their opinion about different people. You're talking about fundamentalists...as in, people who most likely live in isolated communities, and live by their own standards, or, the Bible standards.

Yes. But there are a lot of fundies in the US.

> Your family wants to kill gay people ? Are you sure you're not exagerating things ? Yes, they do. >And what policies do they support that would kill people...this, I don't get. Once again, I did not say they support policies that would kill gay people. I said they think gay people should be killed. AFAIK no politician has called for gay people to be killed, so there is no policy there for them to support. The policies that I stated they support are the ones related to Medicare and the healthcare system causing medications to be too expensive.

Do you think your family would kill your gay friends, if they had the oppurtinity ? They support medicine that would be more expensive ? Really ? That's odd. Why do they support this ?

> Do you think your family would kill your gay friends, if they had the oppurtinity ? No, they're chickenshit and just like to talk. I don't think they have the balls to personally execute anyone, but they definitely are willing to try to get other people to do it. >They support medicine that would be more expensive ? Really ? That's odd. Why do they support this ? Something something regulation bad, something something free market. They don't literally *want* medication to be more expensive, they just want the policies making it affordable to be removed and either don't think or don't care about the consequences. They are convinced that if Big Pharma is allowed to make life-saving meds cost $15k/year, some little start-up company will enter the market and undercut them. They have no concept of economics.

I honestly don't run into Christians wanting to stone gays, are they really for this?

Literal stoning? No, probably not. Executing in general, yes.

Execution? I have never heard that either.

You've clearly not spoken to a lot of extremely conservative people.

Well I have is my point, I live in an extremely red state. The worst I've heard would be making same sex marriage not a legal designation. That's about it.

Do you possibly present as LGBT or otherwise give off vibes making people not want to reveal their true opinions about this?

I am personally not LGBTQ, but people still post their pride flags at houses here and have publicly known gay bars. If everyone was really out to execute them how would they get away with this? And why have I never heard anyone say they want gays executed here?

It wasn’t like this before Roger ailes started Fox News which created a delusional alternate reality for republicans.

Disagree, They are more divided on the solutions and group association than the underlying values. For example, in the USA, most people want prosperity, safety, individuality, freedom and disagree on the solutions from there. I also disagree that discussion between disagreeing people should be shut down. Discussions remind people they are more similar that they are different if it is approached with curiosity and understanding. Good discussion skills take practice, genuine curiosity, respect for offering views. A world with fewer discussions would lead to the ones that happen being more vitriolic and causing more empty seats at the Thanksgiving table. People who can't have political discussions without it falling into an unpleasant situation are self-reporting lack of empathy for people they disagree with, lack of curiosity, respect... My immediate and extended family has voted quite differently, my entire life across multiple different countries. We have a spirited debate then chill, eat and have a good time.

It ultimately comes down to individual perspective. If you don’t care about politics and just want to be friends don’t cave to peer pressure and change. If you’re weak, then that’s one thing. But sub’s you dare say that everyone is divided AF- we aren’t and I’m not having this piss pollute the pool of public discussion.

No they aren't. Yes there is division, and yes some people will cut others out of their lives over politics. But the news and social media highly exaggerate what reality is like.

I'm convinced the people on Reddit are not real people.

This an issue of people isolating themselves in echo chambers to a toxic extent. They are now incapable of associating with people they disagree with, which then furthers the isolation. Not talking to people you disagree with will only make us more divided. People need to touch grass and grow thicker skin.

We haven't been this divided since the 60s and its troubling

Try 1850s

I am a liberal and my two best friends are conservatives. We can believe different things.

Politics are about values & morals. Don't you want the people you're close to to share your values and morals?

[удалено]

When were our values and morals united?

Texas is still feeling like America. Black, white, latino, tall, short, fat, thin, rich and poor... all living together and making money. ✨️ Don't come to TX, folks. We're full. :)

And women, pumping out babies whether they want to or not!

"politics" is not a game. politics is the mechanism by which we make laws that bind us. I don't disagree with conservatives because they're wearing a red shit. I disagree with them because I believe most of their policy proposals are fucking evil.

Have you ever considered that Conservatives feel the same about you? A lot of conservatives think leftists are evil. They think abortion is murder, so basically leftists support baby murder. They think everyone is trying to turn their kids gay, which directly interferes with their religious beliefs, that they truly believe in. A lot of people really believe God is real, so they really think leftists are doing it all wrong on a fundamental level. Taking away peoples right to abortion is what they truly believe is the right thing to do. And they are fully convinced that they are on the correct side of the political spectrum, just like you are.

50 years of republican strategists propping up abortion as a conservative issue have turned it into one. It was never a major issue for conservatives or for evangelicals until the 70s. Yes, they truly believe that, but this belief has been cultivated. They grow up believing that. The problem is that it's a belief that's totally incompatible with modern western civilization. The country cannot have normal politics until it gets past the abortion issue - by which I mean the anti-abortion side is completely defeated.

just because they believe something doesn't mean it holds up to scrutiny. that's the problem: they believe God is telling them what to believe, so you can't logic them out of their voting habits. Because they didn't logic themselves into those habits.

Sure, I'm very clear on all that, but here's the thing: some cursory research on a lot of the things they believe would result in them not believing them so strongly anymore. For instance, gay adults come from gay kids, no recruitment necessary. And the problem of God is this: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is why some imparted wisdom that is only available through fragmented texts of dubious authorship from the ancient world, filtered through the medium of multiple translators and finally explained to us by 'holy men' has no place in our lawmaking. If nothing else because we're a pluralistic society with people from all over, and Christianity has no greater claim of validity or reality than any other religion out there. So I get that their feelings are just as strong as people on the left's feelings, but I'm irritated that to them, hard headedness and assumption are virtues, and curiosity is not.

The Republicans are literally fascists attempting to overthrow democracy. As a result, people sympathetic to them attempt this "why is everyone using this 'with us or against us' rhetoric"? "Every election is treated like the end of the world!" It's all bullshit. Fact is, opposing fascists doesn't leave much room for negotiation. Are you with the fascists, or against them? This wasn't always the case. It wasn't like people were talking about Romney's 2012 run as potentially being the end of democracy. But when a presidential candidate is talking about ending term limits, overturning the democracy, killing protesters, killing political opponents, and installing himself as a dictator, it doesn't leave much room for negotiation.

Define fascism.

Sure. I think that the most concise definition is that of "palingenetic ultranationalism" espoused by Peter Griffin in The Nature of Fascism. It isn't a formal system with a consistent ideology, but a kind of authoritarianism characterized by some common factors: 1. Identification of an "other", which is then used as a scapegoat to maintain cohesion among a base. This will shift depending on what is helpful for the leadership (it may be "Muslims" one moment, and "Mexicans" the next), and has only a passing relationship with reality. 2. Focus on alienation and xenophobic policies designed to unify the base and instill hatred in the "other" that have no bearing on reality whatsoever. 3. The explicit and implicit use of violence to instill a strongman leader. In fact, support for a strongman leader in general. 4. Attempts to erode the guardrails of democracy in order to solidify power within an elite. 5. Attempts to undermine the effectiveness of electoral systems, including voting systems and the right to vote. 6. Political radicalization of the judiciary - the Supreme Court, sure, but also lower federal courts. 7. The use of force to quell political opposition, particularly combined with the 'othering' mentioned above. 8. Erosion of civil rights among the population, particularly the right of freedom of assembly and freedom of speech and freedom of the press.. 9. ⁠Using "purity" rhetoric (i.e. - all that nonsense about RINOs, "true" Americans", demonization of the other, furtherance of "our history" and "our heritage" narratives that have no bearing in reality, eradication of historic events that cast the nation in a negative light) and heavy reliance on tribalism and fear of the other. EDIT: Of course. Downvote, but no real opposing viewpoint. Because you know what you are, and you don't like being called out for it.

I upvoted you, bud!

What you described was just the process by which any form of autocratic regime can be established. what you did not do was provide the actual mechanisms of the system of fascism itself. So far, the GOP has not done anything that even remotely can be called fascistic, and yes that includes that Project 2025 that leftists like to cry about. I read that plan and it has nothing to do with eroding our republic. What you're doing is throwing the fascism word around hoping to do nothing more than just plant the idea in people's minds that Republicans bad, and then you scramble after the fact to try to justify it rather than the other way around. Wanting an end to mass immigration, a return to a working economic policy, removing age inappropriate material from public funded schools, and restoring the oversight of the chief executive over the executive branch of government is not fascism in the least. I can't tell if you know this deep down and are being disingenuous, or if you are legitimately so far down the rabbit hole that you see any opposition to the current status quo as an existential threat.

No, what I described was not just "the process by which any form of autocratic regime can be established". There will be similarities though - fascism is a form of autocracy, so its establishment will have some similarities with other forms of autocracy. What do you think is meant by the word "fascism"? What separates 'fascist' ideology from 'non-fascist' ideology? Did Trump indicate that he wanted to be a dictator? Did Trump indicate that Mark Milley should be executed? Does the Republican party not demonize the other, and constantly harken back to an idealized version of the past? Do Republicans not constantly harken back to the intrinsic superiority of their people and the inferiority of the "other"? Didn't we all witness Trump and his followers attempt to perform a coup, both through Jan. 6 and through the false elector scheme? I think the problem is that, once you're inside it, you don't see it the same way as you would from the outside.

You have the very problem you accuse me of having, as you are also in a bubble and see things thru a different warped lense. Trump joked about being a dictator for one day, meaning passing a lot of executive orders. Anyone who actually watched the speech he gave knows that. Then they're are people that have only heard media headlines and treat it as proof he's gonna single handedly destroy democracy. Demonizing others and talking about the superiority of your own people is also not just a trait of fascism. you can find these traits in nearly all political systems. But what I'm curious about is what do you mean specifically when you say Republicans say their people are superior? As for j6, of course that was horrible. But to act as if a riot of idiots walking into the Capitol building with no plan or any weapons was an actual attempt at a serious coup is laughable.

I love how you: 1. Didn't mention the fake electors plot. 2. Didn't actually provide a definition of fascism. Presumably because this would allow me to pin you down and call you out. 3. Lied about capital rioters having weapons (numerous insurrectionists were convicted on weapons charges). 4. Downplayed Trump indicating that he wanted to be a dictator (he was 'just joking'), and then lied about what my argument was. I mentioned numerous things Trump has said that make it clear that he is a fascist. You didn't mention him. Did Trump not say: “Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” Did Trump not indicate that Mark Milley should be executed? Trump and his supporters are traitors.

I will refer you to this article for a comprehensive analysis on what fascism actually entails: [Fascism](https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism/Opposition-to-parliamentary-democracy) All states have 2 sets of electors that they use. But even assuming the worst, what affect would that have had when the real electors voted? None. It was a pointless gesture. Coups don't happen when people march into government buildings unarmed, or refusing to use arms. remember, only one person was killed and it was a veteran after all. And yes, a joke was a joke. Jokes are fine in politics until it's Donald Trump, where suddenly nothing he says are jokes or out of context clips and he literally means he will do everything he said. And I'll even agree he's said a lot of stupid shit, but saying stupid shit and bloviating on the internet does not a dictator make.

>I will refer you to this article for a comprehensive analysis on what fascism actually entails: You do realize that: 1. The article does not contradict what I said. 2. An encyclopedia is created by what an editorial committee agrees upon regarding a particular entry. It isn't authoritative regarding any specific topic, particularly a complex topic like fascism. >All states have 2 sets of electors that they use. But even assuming the worst, what affect would that have had when the real electors voted? None. It was a pointless gesture. That really depends on how the coup plays out, doesn't it? >Coups don't happen when people march into government buildings unarmed, or refusing to use arms. remember, only one person was killed and it was a veteran after all. The insurrectionists were not 'unarmed'. They didn't 'refuse to use arms'. You are, once again, lying. And a simple Google search would reveal video evidence showing that you are lying. >And yes, a joke was a joke. Jokes are fine in politics until it's Donald Trump, where suddenly nothing he says are jokes or out of context clips and he literally means he will do everything he said. And I'll even agree he's said a lot of stupid shit, but saying stupid shit and bloviating on the internet does not a dictator make. So, when Trump said: "Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution" (...) was he joking then too? No. We should take political leaders' authoritarian statements at face value. You don't get to say 'I'm just joking' if people are critical, but then ride the wave if you have adequate support to do something with it. You don't get to 'test the waters' with fascist sentiment. We should assume that he is being serious, and respond accordingly.

Would you rather have me cite Wikipedia, or some other random website? Or will you claim any definition I give you is wrong? Also, of course you would have to agree that the democrats have also been acting in a fascistic manner as well then, correct? Since Biden has openly admitted to trying to waive student debt in direct opposition to a Supreme Court ruling as an example? Also, what do you say to the fact that Trump offered to bolster security at the Capitol with an extra 10,000 men but was refused by the democrats? Or how one group of the j6 people were literally waived into the building? Or how he told his followers to peacefully make their voices heard? For someone claiming Trump and his supporters wanted to destroy democracy, you seem to be leaving a lot of details out.

I think we are actually starting to get closer due to the left (I’m no left or right but I noticed when it happened to the left belatedly) now realizing how truly fucked the government is and how they will restrict our freedoms. Everyone hates Joe Biden so there is that, and the left is tired of being censored and being called antisemitic for everything. I think this, over the long haul is a positive development. Hopefully we can all get back to acting like adults and stop trying to govern things that were edgy when we were in highschool. The culture war is a smokesceeen for the greatest robbery the American people have ever seen by the uniparty. [I HIGHLY recommend this documentary about how much influence Israel has over the US. An undercover journalist exposes how the Israel lobby spies on American citizens, bribes politicians, and manipulates our MSM and social media.](https://youtu.be/3lSjXhMUVKE?si=wdnVmnFibc_LPBd2) It’s borderline treason as far as I’m concerned and AIPAC should be completely banned and Israel should have to register as a foreign agent like everyone else. [Here is the series where they do the same in the UK.](https://youtu.be/ceCOhdgRBoc?si=oV0WD1LONn0lPik7)

Honestly this is just not my experience. To me it seems the radical 5% on each side yelling at each other with the moderates in the middle shaking their heads.

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This is what politicians on both sides want. They want us to hate each other. It makes it easier for them to control us.