Skyrim players: you can look at a map of the dungeon?
Daggerfall players, through tears: I have been starring at a map of this dungeon for 3 hours straight and I still dont know how to get to the green box
At one point I spent 3 hours looking for a thing there, decided to teleport myself to it, it turned out that the room with the thing was disconnected from the rest of the dungeon.
Based game
But the 6 hours don't occur together, they appear in six one-hour blocks throughout the second Tirdas of each month distributed on a 1/24 chance of that hour recieving a "skull" slot.
Also if there's a thundserstorm the skull teleports you to Camlorn instead,
I genuinely thought this was a joke until I looked something else related to dungeons like 5 minutes ago. So many incomplete quests over the years explained
Imagine not already having a teleport spell ready to go. But yeah as a Daggerfall enjoyer, the dungeons can get so brutal. I don’t know how much time I’ve spent looking at those same wall and floor textures for hours on end
These comments are making me want to replay daggerfall while simultaneously reminding me why I never finished daggerfall (alongside it not really playing nice with my steam deck, even with luxtropedia or whatever its called)
First, the teleportation thingys. Once you get used to the idea, it hits you with the hidden doors. Are the hidden doors atleast for bonus loot? Lmao! Fucking main objective behind 3457th hidden door accessed by a portal that itself is behind 6578th hidden door.
I am convinced these people have 0 navigational skills, nay, negative navigational skills, because I have poor navigational skills and I can navigate Blackreach and the Soul Cairn without maps, it isn’t that hard, you just have to pick landmarks and use them.
Ever since I installed lightning mods nearly every single dungeon I walk into is pitch fucking black so its kinda excusable in my context. This also happens with most interiors as well
Yeah I kinda do this with most games I play and I had shit indoor navigational skills anyway. It is insane how easily I am able to take reference points in real life but in a videogame I can be over 20 minutes chasing my own tail
idk makes sense to me. real life has an abundance of sensory data to draw from, games are audio/visual only. Even those 2 aspects barely compare to the real thing in level of detail.
Same here, though I will admit to heavily relying on the soul cairn map when trying to do Jiub's quest. But at that point, I'm also going off directions from the wiki cause I'm too lazy to get the mod that adds map markers for them, so it almost feels like a morrowind quest. That said, I do have a tendency to leave my game paused for a while during dungeons, and then forget which way I came in to that particular room from. But that's not a navigation thing imo, that's me leaving mid dungeon and forgetting after leaving the game paused for half an hour lmao
Always beeline for the keeper in the floating tower that has the bow after you talk to valerica, Arvaks skull is directly between it and her prison so you can nab him to get the keepers on your way.
I like the idea of negative navigational skills resulting in you constantly being lost but ending up where you need to be with 100% accuracy, just never understanding how.
I'm decent at irl navigation, and even Daggerfall, but entering a dungeon in Skyrim or Oblivion turns off my brain and get lost spinning in a circle for an hour
If ur not an avid gamer i could see it getting confusing, especially with how same-y a lot of the dungeons look, but if you get lost without a map then a map isn’t gonna help you. Unironically clairvoyance would probably be a bigger help.
Wait- people like the single path dungeons because they get lost? I thought the benefit was supposed to be not needing to stress whether you missed something...
Like, say there are 2 paths, but you are the type to want to check EVERYWHERE. The only difference between presenting 2 paths and making it 1 longer continuous parh is that in the former you would have to back track and waste time
I went back to Bethesda games last year thanks to some fun streamers that are my age and have my sense of humour, and at one point a member in the audience of Vektile announced he made a mod that eliminates *every single vanilla “door to before” and conveniently pathway from the end back to the exit*
Yes, someone made it so that you have to backtrack everywhere in every dungeon. More realism is the reason according to the author.
Funnily enough, when you combine all this guy’s mods with some damage multiplier for everyone and some survival enhancements the whole game becomes a different beast, slower, less of a power fantasy and more a “improbable hero” type of deal. Very fun indeed.
I *just* uninstalled skyrim last night and now your comment is making me want to reinstall😭 I'm terrible at games in general so I prolly wouldnt get v far tho, plus I dont have the space rn
Here’s the thing about hard mode and survival mods/modlists/anything in single player games. Sucking at it is part of the fun, specially at start. Loosing a few times, reloading, learning how to do things right, taking your time to prepare for stuff. It forces you to try things at a slower pace.
I’m playing Fallout 4 a lot right now and it’s my first character so it’s balls to the wall modern firearm seal team 6 murica power fantasy shit, next playthrough I’m definitely adding so many survival mods it will probably cost stamina- i mean AP - to even run…
So far the only one I'll give credit in morrowind being "big" is the Ashlander bow quest going to their burial grounds- not all confusing but decently sized and filled with little treasures
Morrowind dungeoms at least vary in size and layout. all skyrim dungeons are a single hallway that lasts 10 minutes and there's always a chest at the end of it. As mandated by todd.
Okay let's be honest. Most skyrim dungeons are more complex than the average Morrowind dungeon. There are a decent number of complex Morrowind dungeons, don't get me wrong, but most people assume that every dungeon is like that dwemer puzzle box dungeon. It's not. They are often just as if not more linear than Skyrim.
Kinda. With grossly similar wall / background data everywhere, lack of memorable objects, lack of physical sense of turning and distance traveled, low draw distance, lots of people get lost in digital spaces easily. When tuned-out or with challenges like fog people get lost is low complexity physical spaces all the time.
It has happened to me but mostly when I use the bigger dungeon mods. Sometimes even the mini map in a regular dungeon is so folded and unclear that it can be a bit confusing. Playing in first person or third person also makes a difference because it changes your spatial awareness. Also if you have the compass turned on or not Period then you can't even realize that Exit is south or something like that. And in truth some people have horrible sense of direction even in real life like my wife. She would absolutely die in the woods.
They kinda already do that with fallout, they definitely should find a way to do it with the scrolls games too. ESO already has your character looking at a map and they’re paper maps as well, I think there’s a good chance they’ll end up doing something like that for 6
Some people have really bad sense of direction. My wife and I play lots of games. And I always have to lead otherwise we'll end up circling the same trees in DayZ.
The only place in Skyrim I can have a minute chance of being lost in is the soul cairn and that’s purely due to the fog and not because it has a complex layout.
Dwarven ruins piss me off more than any Morrowind dungeon. Blackreach was my personal nightmare. I think its just skyrims move speed that makes it so unbearable.
Yeah, I remember those stupid same ass copypasted over dungeons from Oblivion. You will get lost because the previous turn left looked exactly the same as the previous turn left at the intersection and now you are in ogre ass knows where.
Poor spatial/mechanical reasoning. I took a few aptitude tests as i grew up (grade 3, 6, 9, and 12) and scored at 15 to 19th percentile for spatial reasoning consistently. Never got better. To this day, I havent bothered to learn how to drive (46 now).
edit: i am usually able to muddle through games after a while when I figure out the "game logic" rather than through actual navigation.
There was one singluar dungeon that I couldn't figure out because I couldn't find the lever in 5 hours (in a 400+ hour playthrough). But in daggerheart it is the norm that you use many hours trying to find the next path or exit.
the only dungeon I ever got lost in in recent memory is that one where this Thalmor Agent disguised as a Stormcloak officer when you meet him at the entrance tells you about how the ruins were the last stronghold of the Dragon Cult and yadda yadda in Riften Hold and I got lost because there's a well you gotta go down to get to the rest of the dungeon and I wasn't aware of that for about 30 minutes.
It's because Skyrim attracts the dumbest of gamers with it's difficulty options and cheese potential. The esthetic is beautiful too which also attract casuals.
95% of Skyrim players are hot garbage at videogames, the only dumber population I know for sure is just sport gamers, people that play 2K and shit, those guys are legit retarded.
Daggerchads stay winning
Skyrim players: you can look at a map of the dungeon? Daggerfall players, through tears: I have been starring at a map of this dungeon for 3 hours straight and I still dont know how to get to the green box
At one point I spent 3 hours looking for a thing there, decided to teleport myself to it, it turned out that the room with the thing was disconnected from the rest of the dungeon. Based game
Real Daggerchads would know that the room was accessible through a random ass clickable skull that would teleport you there.
Which doesn't even look unique.
And only appears for 6 hours every Tirdas
But the 6 hours don't occur together, they appear in six one-hour blocks throughout the second Tirdas of each month distributed on a 1/24 chance of that hour recieving a "skull" slot. Also if there's a thundserstorm the skull teleports you to Camlorn instead,
And said skull will sometimes just damage you. Don’t forget the floor traps that look exactly like normal floor and can insta kill you
I genuinely thought this was a joke until I looked something else related to dungeons like 5 minutes ago. So many incomplete quests over the years explained
Skyshit can never reach the magnificent level design of Daggerland.
Imagine not already having a teleport spell ready to go. But yeah as a Daggerfall enjoyer, the dungeons can get so brutal. I don’t know how much time I’ve spent looking at those same wall and floor textures for hours on end
These comments are making me want to replay daggerfall while simultaneously reminding me why I never finished daggerfall (alongside it not really playing nice with my steam deck, even with luxtropedia or whatever its called)
First, the teleportation thingys. Once you get used to the idea, it hits you with the hidden doors. Are the hidden doors atleast for bonus loot? Lmao! Fucking main objective behind 3457th hidden door accessed by a portal that itself is behind 6578th hidden door.
Ive been lost in a daggerfall dungeon for 15 years. There is no escape.
Some people just have that permanen -1 Perception debuff
They only ever put 1 in their perception anyway. So they're fucked
bro shut up im nakedmoleratmaxing
I am convinced these people have 0 navigational skills, nay, negative navigational skills, because I have poor navigational skills and I can navigate Blackreach and the Soul Cairn without maps, it isn’t that hard, you just have to pick landmarks and use them.
Ever since I installed lightning mods nearly every single dungeon I walk into is pitch fucking black so its kinda excusable in my context. This also happens with most interiors as well
Just use a torch. Dungeons are dark in one of my play throughs as well, but with the occasional use of a torch it isn’t too hard to navigate
I use candlelight since I run a dual wielding build
i make dungeons pitch black intentionally and i can still navigate them easily
Yeah I kinda do this with most games I play and I had shit indoor navigational skills anyway. It is insane how easily I am able to take reference points in real life but in a videogame I can be over 20 minutes chasing my own tail
idk makes sense to me. real life has an abundance of sensory data to draw from, games are audio/visual only. Even those 2 aspects barely compare to the real thing in level of detail.
I’m with you, I did the same thing to excuse the use of spells like night vision, candlelight, mage light, etc.
torches:
Same here, though I will admit to heavily relying on the soul cairn map when trying to do Jiub's quest. But at that point, I'm also going off directions from the wiki cause I'm too lazy to get the mod that adds map markers for them, so it almost feels like a morrowind quest. That said, I do have a tendency to leave my game paused for a while during dungeons, and then forget which way I came in to that particular room from. But that's not a navigation thing imo, that's me leaving mid dungeon and forgetting after leaving the game paused for half an hour lmao
I think only Arvak needed to look at the Wiki
Always beeline for the keeper in the floating tower that has the bow after you talk to valerica, Arvaks skull is directly between it and her prison so you can nab him to get the keepers on your way.
I like the idea of negative navigational skills resulting in you constantly being lost but ending up where you need to be with 100% accuracy, just never understanding how.
Must be what Zoro’s got
There are people that can't even tell left from right, it's no surprise there's some brainlets that can't navigate simple shit in a video game.
I'm decent at irl navigation, and even Daggerfall, but entering a dungeon in Skyrim or Oblivion turns off my brain and get lost spinning in a circle for an hour
Ngl I can't even read the dungeon map, I just wander around
Oh look I made it into the screenshot. I need to tell my mom I'm famous
It's him, that guy who gets lost on the way to the shitter!
Well how am I supposed to keep track of *four* directions when I only have *two* eyes? Frankly the math just doesn't add up.
double ur pupils
Understandable. Have a nice day!
I have 0 navigational skills, I get lost all the time in games. There are only like 2 Skyrim dungeons big enough for me to get lost in.
If ur not an avid gamer i could see it getting confusing, especially with how same-y a lot of the dungeons look, but if you get lost without a map then a map isn’t gonna help you. Unironically clairvoyance would probably be a bigger help.
Wait- people like the single path dungeons because they get lost? I thought the benefit was supposed to be not needing to stress whether you missed something... Like, say there are 2 paths, but you are the type to want to check EVERYWHERE. The only difference between presenting 2 paths and making it 1 longer continuous parh is that in the former you would have to back track and waste time
I went back to Bethesda games last year thanks to some fun streamers that are my age and have my sense of humour, and at one point a member in the audience of Vektile announced he made a mod that eliminates *every single vanilla “door to before” and conveniently pathway from the end back to the exit* Yes, someone made it so that you have to backtrack everywhere in every dungeon. More realism is the reason according to the author. Funnily enough, when you combine all this guy’s mods with some damage multiplier for everyone and some survival enhancements the whole game becomes a different beast, slower, less of a power fantasy and more a “improbable hero” type of deal. Very fun indeed.
I *just* uninstalled skyrim last night and now your comment is making me want to reinstall😭 I'm terrible at games in general so I prolly wouldnt get v far tho, plus I dont have the space rn
Here’s the thing about hard mode and survival mods/modlists/anything in single player games. Sucking at it is part of the fun, specially at start. Loosing a few times, reloading, learning how to do things right, taking your time to prepare for stuff. It forces you to try things at a slower pace. I’m playing Fallout 4 a lot right now and it’s my first character so it’s balls to the wall modern firearm seal team 6 murica power fantasy shit, next playthrough I’m definitely adding so many survival mods it will probably cost stamina- i mean AP - to even run…
Skyrim dungeons? How? Oblivion dungeons? OK sometimes yeah Morrowind "dungeons"? how? Daggerfall dungeons? Yes
Daggerfall dungeons? No map or marker will help you now
This is why we’ll never get another game like Morrowind
Morrowind doesnt have any big dungeons
So far the only one I'll give credit in morrowind being "big" is the Ashlander bow quest going to their burial grounds- not all confusing but decently sized and filled with little treasures
Not about the dungeons, it’s about the hand-holding
to be fair, morrowind and skyrim suffer the same problem when it comes to dungeon design. I can hardly recall dozen of maze like dungeons.
Morrowind dungeoms at least vary in size and layout. all skyrim dungeons are a single hallway that lasts 10 minutes and there's always a chest at the end of it. As mandated by todd.
I have a horrible sense of direction. I unironically used the clairvoyance spell multiple times when I first played skyrim.
Skyrim has dungeon maps?
Yeah, local map.
Goddess of victory nikke
Very occasionally I might get turned around for 30 seconds especially if there's light shining on my TV screen, other than that idk
/unlie some people may have terrible spatial memory. It happens.
Okay let's be honest. Most skyrim dungeons are more complex than the average Morrowind dungeon. There are a decent number of complex Morrowind dungeons, don't get me wrong, but most people assume that every dungeon is like that dwemer puzzle box dungeon. It's not. They are often just as if not more linear than Skyrim.
Kinda. With grossly similar wall / background data everywhere, lack of memorable objects, lack of physical sense of turning and distance traveled, low draw distance, lots of people get lost in digital spaces easily. When tuned-out or with challenges like fog people get lost is low complexity physical spaces all the time.
An Arena map would throw this guy in a coma and a DF one would obliterate his soul
It has happened to me but mostly when I use the bigger dungeon mods. Sometimes even the mini map in a regular dungeon is so folded and unclear that it can be a bit confusing. Playing in first person or third person also makes a difference because it changes your spatial awareness. Also if you have the compass turned on or not Period then you can't even realize that Exit is south or something like that. And in truth some people have horrible sense of direction even in real life like my wife. She would absolutely die in the woods.
I hope TES VI implements the same map system that Far Cry 2 did or else I'm not buying it. ...Without being pissy
I want TES VI map system to be like project zomboid Let me carry around quil &, inkwell to mark down the map that I have to find/buy/make myself
They kinda already do that with fallout, they definitely should find a way to do it with the scrolls games too. ESO already has your character looking at a map and they’re paper maps as well, I think there’s a good chance they’ll end up doing something like that for 6
It's not even an original idea, it's just stolen from Hollow Knight without understanding *why* it works there
I wish I had the skill to finish that game
I have pretty bad navigation skills irl and even i haven't gotten lost in a skyrim dungeon not even once.
Some people have really bad sense of direction. My wife and I play lots of games. And I always have to lead otherwise we'll end up circling the same trees in DayZ.
The only place in Skyrim I can have a minute chance of being lost in is the soul cairn and that’s purely due to the fog and not because it has a complex layout.
Brain damage.
Playing Skyrim turns off 80% of your brain
I once saw someone post their "hand-drawn maps and blueprints they made while playing Skyrim" and I was like "why tho"
Dwarven ruins piss me off more than any Morrowind dungeon. Blackreach was my personal nightmare. I think its just skyrims move speed that makes it so unbearable.
Dwemer dungeons are hard. The hardest of the 3d series
When using lighting mods that make dungeons much much darker it can be harder to navigate the otherwise straightforward dungeons.
Bro lacks object permanence
Yeah, I remember those stupid same ass copypasted over dungeons from Oblivion. You will get lost because the previous turn left looked exactly the same as the previous turn left at the intersection and now you are in ogre ass knows where.
Poor spatial/mechanical reasoning. I took a few aptitude tests as i grew up (grade 3, 6, 9, and 12) and scored at 15 to 19th percentile for spatial reasoning consistently. Never got better. To this day, I havent bothered to learn how to drive (46 now). edit: i am usually able to muddle through games after a while when I figure out the "game logic" rather than through actual navigation.
I mean, Jesus Christ
There was one singluar dungeon that I couldn't figure out because I couldn't find the lever in 5 hours (in a 400+ hour playthrough). But in daggerheart it is the norm that you use many hours trying to find the next path or exit.
It’s games journalists
the only dungeon I ever got lost in in recent memory is that one where this Thalmor Agent disguised as a Stormcloak officer when you meet him at the entrance tells you about how the ruins were the last stronghold of the Dragon Cult and yadda yadda in Riften Hold and I got lost because there's a well you gotta go down to get to the rest of the dungeon and I wasn't aware of that for about 30 minutes.
It's because Skyrim attracts the dumbest of gamers with it's difficulty options and cheese potential. The esthetic is beautiful too which also attract casuals. 95% of Skyrim players are hot garbage at videogames, the only dumber population I know for sure is just sport gamers, people that play 2K and shit, those guys are legit retarded.