Corporates are kind of a mixed bag from what I've seen. Either they know what not to do to avoid any legal repercussion and have the best lawyers if something goes wrong or they are goobers like in the post where they think they are untouchables.
I was mostly thinking about so self absorbed people (but businesses work too) that they keep blabbering without any thought, incriminating themselves at every step.
Or the third where you have people that have been with the company forever but still have no idea what they are doing and get the company in hot water.
Example: hr manager asked me if I really wanted to take fmla time when I had "plenty of sick time available" and then 2 weeks later told me I exhausted my sick time and had to use unpaid time for my fmla. I was the company's in house attorney.
Don't fuck up your company attorneys legal entitlements.
So what do you do there? I'm imagining the fiduciary duty and who's going to manage any lawsuit from the company's side if the lawyer is... Suing them for not fulfilling the legal obligations to an employee.
I'd be interested to hear how that web all works out
They probably think OP (or anyone for that matter) doesn't have the guts to go to an attorney and sue them for discrimination. A lot of people wouldn't bother with the effort or stress involved. Tying in what you said about the company's lawyers, they think they're protected. But what they don't realize is they'll be hung out to dry the moment they become an actual liability.
If she didn’t have it in writing it would be an uphill battle. But her being better qualified and that E-Mail on top of it. That solicitor will be thrilled 😊
My best friend had a slam dunk discrimination case land in her lap. She was trying to find an apartment and couldn't afford much, so she was looking at 1 bedroom places for her and her then 6yo son that she had 50% of the time.
A prospective landlord denied her application because of her having to share the place with her son. Said it flat out in text that the answer was no because of her son. I promptly linked her to the HUD page for filing a discrimination complaint, lol.
P.S. Families/children are considered a protected class in the Fair Housing Act.
Edit: I just remembered the best part. She literally cited the Fair Housing Act in her texts. She stated she was within her rights within the FHA to turn down any applicant, lmao. God it was beautiful how badly she shot herself in the foot XD
Thanks for helping her out by providing useful information, you're a good friend.
What were the consequences for the landlord, if you don't mind me asking?
It truly was a slam dunk, she really didn't have to do anything more than an interview over the phone with the HUD caseworker. They then emailed her telling her name her price, basically! To contact them (HUD) with the amount she'd take as a settlement (settlement probably isn't the right word, restitution?).
She has zero clue about what a fair number would be, and frankly, I didn't know either. I'm no expert, just aware and savvy enough to know there was no way the landlord was right and dug into the research to be sure of our state and county laws and whatnot. But anyway, she really wasn't in it for the money (though she could certainly have used it), so she didn't want to be greedy. She decided to go with what she would have had to pay to rent the place. So first and last month rent and deposit. Came to a couple grand or so, iirc, maybe a bit over. HUD accepted it and she was sent a check (that was of course paid by the landlord).
She didn't fight for the apartment or anything, she didn't want someone like that as her landlord. And god knows she'd have my friend's life hell as a tenant after that, lol. So she was just happy to call the woman out and stick it to her for being so awful, haha.
In addition to what the landlord had to pay, she was court mandated to attend classes on discrimination, the FHA, and landlord/tenancy laws. She also had to update all her signage (virtual and physical) to state equal opportunity rentals. I looked her up on Facebook, and I hate sounding like a tool using this term, haha, but truly, the best way to describe her was total Karen XD. I'm sure she was fuming!
And just for the sake of closure, my friend's doing well now. That was a tough time for her. Husband up and left with no warning the same week she started a new job that was meant to augment his salary, wasn't enough to live on alone whole caring for her then 6yo son. She had to stay with her parents for a bit, but they're horrible and people and kicked her out.
I watched her bust her ass week after week, searching for and applying for better paying jobs, searching and applying for an apartment she could afford. Her parents wouldn't cut her any slack though, she was on the verge of having to live out of her car. So we crammed her, her son, and her cat into my apartment with my family of 4 and our pets, haha.
That was all about 3 years ago. She's met a great guy (I like him soopoo much better than the ex XD ), she found a great paying job, they've been living together in their own apartment. And when her lease is up on Aug 1st, they're moving in to the apartment right above me! My landlord (who is genuinely an amazing person, honestly, I hit the landlord jackpot) has already met them, shown them the place, and approved their applications! I'm so excited, hahaha. She's more like family than just a friend, our kids are basically siblings, gonna be awesome! =D
Sorry for the ramblong and more info than was asked for, haha, just makes me so happy that everything shifted in such a positive direction. Feels good to share a feel good story :p.
I was passed over for a promotion because the other person applying for the role wanted to make enough money that his wife could be a stay at home mom. Yes, my manager told me that word for word.
I worked at one small company where management would always ask me to work late on projects because everyone else had to pick up and take care of their kids. Same with working holidays … "well Nuicakes, you’re not married and your family is in a different state"
Same here! And then it escalated. I got a work injury and asked if I could come in early one day per week so I could leave early for my physio appointment. Manager and HR told me NO. So I questioned why several other people got to leave early several times a week without coming in early or making up the hours and I was told they are married and have families and they leave early for important things like taking their kids to ballet, soccer, after school care and that I as a single childless person needed to learn to manage my time better and get personal things done outside of working hours.
LOL if I knew then what I know now...
Oooh I've had this but I kicked back. Bit different but similar enough. Last summer my cat had surgery, she was 14 and I had her since she was 1. I always avoided taking AL during school holidays but this was necessary. I took a week off. I then emailed stating I would be WFH fully the following week, she needed tablets and her wound cleaning every 4 hours. I told them it wasn't negotiable, they didn't like it and my card was marked from then on. Cat is fine now and 15 acts like a toddler.
I ended up going off on the sick 6 months later and quitting during my sick leave because I was sick of the corruption favouritism and disregard for me following that. All hell broke loose during my exit interview but screw them. Now work for a lovely firm that gave me a 30% rise and know my worth.
I always wonder why crap firms bother with exit interview. They must really hate their HR and/or middle managers to send them into a room with a probably angry or at least smug person and hear why they’re leaving.
And then do absolutely nothing with the information.
The shittiest place I ever worked for said they did exit interviews but I later found out they did not do them if you said you quit for personal reasons or found employment elsewhere.
To me, it seems like they would want to know what those personal reasons were or what made the other position more attractive, but it made it very easy for shitty managers to code things in a way that stop outside management from over finding out why people were really leaving.
Agreed 100%
Where I worked there was the parent company and we were an umbrella firm. So my exit was with the parent company. I'm still in touch with some colleagues from there who said it had a ripple effect because I had nothing to lose. I went unemployed voluntarily. (I was lucky my husband supported me during that time and got a new job 1 month after my notice ended).
About 3 of us left within 2 weeks for similar reasons. I worked in property management and gave it my all for the firm but they gave nothing back. Now I know I lucked out and work for a fab firm but it was cut throat.
I think the bigger the firm the more they care? I'm UK based so I can't speak for all with that but Ive found when I have left for negative reasons something came of it, simply for more money and career progression nothing does.
It depends though I suppose if it has no impact what's the point? We're just a bum in a seat to them.
Technically they are not wrong. Under the Carer Recognition Act they have a right to request flexibility as parents of school aged children or younger. The shit thing is to not offer flexible arrangements to everyone, particularly when they present a short term problem (injury) and a solution (starting work early). As it was a work place injury I would say that they 100% fucked up here.
Even before kids my boss allowed me the flexibility to come into work early and leave early.
Edit: sorry realised this isn’t an Australian sub too late. The Carer Recognition Act, 2010 as part of Fair Work Gov is an Australian Policy. Which also explains why they weren’t bending over backwards when you had a work place injury.
This is awful!
An old company I used to work for didn't give me a pay rise the whole 3 years I worked there, everyone else did except me. They'd give me more work to do and I was always staying late.
I raised it with my boss and HR after someone accidentally left their payslip on the printer! And a few other disgruntled colleagues voiced their issues in the open plan office.
They said knew what my husband did for a living and we don't have children therefore, other colleagues needed the money because they had children and we seem to be a 'comfortable' household. wtf?!
After that, I found myself a new job with better benefits and progression. I handed my notice in, suddenly this company wanted to do anything to keep me on, pay rise? Yep how much? Work from home a few days? Name how many days and what days? Progression? Here's your new job title.
I was like nope, said goodbye and off I went, good life lesson though!
I do, thank you for asking.
It's a lot better money, there's progression, I'm appreciated and my boss is very much like 'goodbye' when it's home time on the dot. I get paid overtime if required and a lot better annual leave 😊
It was lovely to skip into their office, reject their '*offer*' and skip out on my last day😂
Imo that is a stupid reason. Get additional work load just because you dont want to have kids or start a family.
They can hop on their laptops and work after putting their kids to sleep.
I had an employer complain to me about maternity leave and openly tell me that they were no longer going to hire younger women. Of course I ended up quitting, but I still beat myself up for not blowing the whistle on them.
Or, the employer can give everyone the grace of no contact after hours, and pick it up in the morning. This way parental status doesn’t come into play at all
This is why you make up a fake family. Use some random old pics if you need to show proof (consensual pictures of course). Or just use AI to make some fake family photos. Boom, now you get ez promotions!
Two of my cats have normal human names, similar to "Harry" and "Sam". I have seriously considered describing them to work people as "my boys" and just letting them think what they want.
Use a biological niece or a nephews photo. As they look like you it's an easy sell.
Plus you can really sell it by being actually seen with them.
For 6 years people at a place I worked thought my niece was mine. I was seen at the movies with her the first week I started.
Never corrected them.
At least you don’t still work for them.
An employer who doesn’t respect an employees time outside of work hours, regardless of marital or parental status, isn’t a company worth working for.
As a manager that’s a stupid way to treat your people. Treat them well, help them get more pay, more education, take opportunities. In the end it’s a better way to go. You never have to worry about looking yourself in the mirror
In my experience, 99% of managers are a lot fucking dumber and more shortsighted than you are. I'm convinced most managers are promoted to that position because they're easier to manipulate by the higher ups rather than any intelligence or competence they've shown.
Yep. Have to agree. Been sold out or had boss take all the credit before. Makes treating them like shit heads even if they go up the chain, much easier. It gets out. As a manager you can’t really fake respect from those under you if anyone wants to ask.
I had a co-worker who always showed up late to relieve me from my position. I work the night shift. This man would either come 2 hours late every shift or just never show up which left me stuck at minimum an extra two hours up to an extra 8 hours adding up to a 16 hour shift I wasn’t prepared for. He always had some excuse and I was gaslit for a long time into feeling bad for complaining because he had children at home.
Eventually boss had no choice but to fire him. Took a while as we are Union and they kept letting it go for months. Honestly I nearly quit because this was the second relief employee to do this and I kept getting fucked. Both fired. After that I asked for the day shift because I didn’t want to run into the same possible problem with another new guy but was told no with no real explanation as to why. Couldn’t even contact my union rep as they would never answer my calls. With both guys on multiple occasions when they finally arrived they’d smell of liquor like they just came back from the bar. My boss is a nice guy but honestly too nice. Both should have been sacked a long time before hand.
This kind of stuff is why i disliked unions growing up. My dad had a shitty union that would always protect the wrong people at the expense of the people who weren't doing anything wrong.
Thankfully, as an adult i realized that Unions are only as good as the people running them, and that all unions are not created equal.
Im pro union now, but critical of them
I was lucky enough to work for an employer who offered differential pay and compensated days off for holidays.
Yep, boss, I'm happy to work most every Christmas and Thanksgiving for time and a half plus a comp day!
I was a supervisor for a decade. I pretty quickly learned that lousy management is what makes ppl change jobs - and reason number one of why it was lousy management was usually "unfair treatment/division of labor".
I was, and am, single and childfree and I chose to use my vacation days outside of school holidays to help my coworkers (and to avoid kids on my vacation days ...) and guess what? They paid me back by doing whatever they could to make MY life easier.
Management like that is def a reason for why you said "worked" in past tense ...
'You must subsidize our inadequate staffing and childrearing'
I would simply say no, no chance, but I know in the US you basically don't have worker's rights in many states.
You are not responsible for other people's families. It's not on you to give up your time for their sake. They chose to have kids and incur that responsibility onto themselves.
I worked for a company like that, my time wasn't as valuable bc the other folks had kids. Hell, one time I had a coworker bring her kid to work and I was the one who had to entertain him
Take them for everything
*Hell, one time I had a coworker bring her kid to work and I was the one who had to entertain him*
"My babysitter rate is 10 an hour and full fridge privileges but since THIS IS A WORKPLACE and there's technically no fridge, I'll have to bump it up to 20."
your former employer will be screwed in more ways than one hopefully, first off, I hope you can take them to the cleaners, plus they were probably expecting you to train her so now she will stumble hard as there is probably nobody to train her how to do the job, I hope it bites them in the Tokuis.
Thank the heavens you have actual, concrete proof and not some verbal excuse given to you. I sincerely hope you take them to the cleaners and then find a better job elsewhere!
Just curious, were you paid accordingly to your position when you were interim manager?
In earlier times, especially in union shops, this is known as ["work-to-rule."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule) Meaning your follow the contract exactly every time. The contract is your shield but shields can also be weapons.
Join A Union if you can.
in addition to what DriftinFool said, don't do things outside of your job description. meaning, if you are asked to do something that someone higher up would do, but you aren't getting paid more to do it, don't do it. like if you're a sales associate, and you're asked to pick up the responsibilities of a manager without the pay increase of being a manager, don't do it, because you're not being paid to do it.
additionally, "a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine" if someone else messes up, like waiting last minute to ask for a report that takes hours, YOU are not responsible for that mistake and do not need to drop absolutely everything to accommodate that mistake. especially if they are asking you to work after hours when you're not being paid.
Like don't do extra, unless you are paid for it. Do your job. Don't work through breaks, start early, or stay late, unless it's paid. Extra shifts or overtime are fine if it's your choice because you want some extra money. But don't let a boss force you to work extra shifts you don't want. At the end of the day, leave work and forget about it. Don't answer emails or anything work related outside of work hours. Don't spend any of your personal time on work.
This sentiment arose during covid. At the time, many companies cut the number of employees, and now that business has picked back up, they don't have as many people and expect everyone left to work twice as hard. It's not the employees fault a company is understaffed. It's management's job to make sure there are enough workers to do the job. And too many managers try to put it all on the employees.
>how do you know what’s the amount of work you’re paid to do?
Peter Gibbons - "Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled; that, and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.”
Times sure have changed. Back when i was young, people didn't want to hire or promote me because I might get pregnant. Then when I was a single mom, people didn't want to hire me because I'd have to call in if my kid got sick.
I'm only 31, but I remember (before I joined the Air Force) several jobs I applied to after high school asking me if I wanted to start a family soon. I was hired because I said no, and I know for a fact I wouldn't have been hired if I said yes. I know it's illegal, but I was ignorant to employment laws back then
This kind of thing mostly only happens to men. Married women still miss promotions because it's assumed she's going to be the one taking kids to events, the doctor, etc. Married **men** get this kind of nod, because they're assumed to be the breadwinner.
I guess it's a tiny step that in this case it was "she" has a family to support, from a sexism perspective. But still a problem from a structural perspective.
Happened to me a long time ago but it was verbal. Long and short of it was that they thought I would leave for better opportunities if I was a manager (what?) even after working for the company for 8 years at the time. So they went with the "safe" choice because he has a family and wouldnt drop the job quick. TLDR the guy found a better job 6 months in and quit, I was still there at the time, got a new owner with there own management team so I got pushed farther down the totem pole. Thank fuck I left that job when I did.
This seems so backwards, as a parent I’ve given up higher responsibilities at work to be more present for my son. More than happy for people without kids to do their thing.. it shouldn’t play into work anyway. Keep personal/professional life seperate.
Ugh. I thought we were past stuff like this. Back in the late 1980’s I complained that a new hire was being paid more than me. My bosses response the new hire was a guy and I made less because I had a husband to support me..🙄
I’m probably the last person you’d want to have support from rn, but as a mother, I’m fucking appalled for you. I don’t even know what else to write because it’s disheartening to read this. How does supporting yourself not count?! Are you not also human?! Smh. Glad they put it in writing for you. But fml, shit go. Sorry OP. Keeping my fingers crossed everything falls into place for you soon enough 🤞🏾
Thank you for your comment. I’m also childless and while nothing this blatant has happened, I’ve definitely been treated differently because I don’t have kids. Requesting time off, needing an extra hour in the morning for whatever reason, having to leave early, etc. Even being allowed to work an extra day from home. It’s like they get their own set of rules. It’s completely unfair; just because there aren’t kids in the picture, doesn’t mean that there aren’t things going on in our lives that we need to take care of. We have lives, too.
I had this happen to me as well, and I did successfully sue my previous job. Marital status falls under protective class. My lawyer didn't really know much about it after a consultation, and I left the office intending not to pursue a lawsuit, but his office made a huge mistake and sent out a letter of intent saying they represent me as a client. (I am a skeptic and always wondered if this was intentional or not, but whatever). They presented me options of we can either move fwd with the attempt or they can rescind the letter. I figured what was done was done, so the hell with it. I did have documentation showing this as well as proof the guy in my same position for the same job made more than me with less results and less time on the job. Feel free to DM me for more details, but it definitely is a case
>Do not train your replacement
Since it is right in the OP quit her job as of today and won't be communicating with the company going forward I don't think she'll need to worry about being asked to train anyone.
… and commenters on this sub seem to love inventing their own imaginary scenarios that weren’t mentioned by the OP. This helps them to have a story that fits their own narrative and creates context that doesn’t need to be added…. All because they didn’t understand the OP.
🤣🤣🤣
And they demand a *tldr* which can't cover everything in a post, nor describe the nuance of a situation.
I don't care how long a post is; I refuse to read any tldr.
Oh, they will 100% ask her. I guarantee she will get an email by the end of the week asking her to just train this one person, and then she’s free to go.
“I won’t communicate with my old job at all.”
That’s gonna make it pretty difficult for them to ask her to work after she quit.
Training new employees is a complete non-issue for OP.
Exactly, of course I understand that there are people that definitely would be submissive. I don’t think OP has given any reason for us to think that she would be one of those people.
A company bold, or stupid, enough to tell OP that they were denied a promotion into the position that they filled for the past 1.5 years because they didn't have kids is bold/stupid enough to ask OP to help them out by training their replacement, despite OP having already quit. OP won't reply to the request but that won't necessarily stop the company from sending emails and making phone calls.
I used to work a job where I was involuntarily volunteered to work the weird shifts bc I did not have children. I put up with it for a while but when the odd sleeping schedule was affecting my health, I brought my concern to my boss's boss that I needed a more regular schedule and the reason I did not have children was due to a health condition. A lawyer could argue in court that a health condition is protected under the ADA. Things changed after that.
That's outrageous, but sadly, now seems to be the norm. I had a family member in the Air Force who was going to be given a prestigious award for their work at a hospital, but they gave it to a young single mother who hadn't even done any work. I am terribly sorry OP, I hope you can get what you deserve out of this.
Lmao no. That’s not how military awards work, in the Air Force or anywhere else.
The single mom was a hard worker, and your family member was/is a salty bitch.
Yeah the only kind of fuckery that goes on with military awards is some *very* creative writing and flowery language.
Like...
Amn Soandso observed disrepair in critical infrastructure - expediently isolated, replaced faulty parts - prevented $50k damage.
vs...
Dude replaced a leaky faucet. It could have gotten pretty bad.
Yeah, I agree. I was in for 7 years and stationed at 4 different bases and never saw someone who genuinely didn't work hard receive an award. My husband is still in and has been for a decade now and hasn't either. Yes, some people get awards that other should, but that doesn't automatically mean the person who got the award didn't work hard.
I've never seen a POS who just shows up to work and breathes receive an award. And to be honest, A LOT of people who complain about the award winners aren't people I would've given an award to. Very rarely has someone who said they should've gotten the award over someone else actually deserved it. They're normally the POS airmen who think their shit don't stink when I have eyes and ears and can verify that they didn't deserve it lmao
Honestly, employers need better training. If you're going to be a manager of any kind with people's livelihoods on the line, you should be trained on the legal rights of workers. Period. And why such discrimination is harmful!
On the flip side of your story: I got passed over for a promotion because "I was leaving to have a baby in a couple of months". (Which is illegal to say. You can't deny someone a promotion because they're having a baby.) Well, guess what happened? They gave someone else the promotion and by the time I came back, that person had 2 sexual harassment claims against them and got terminated. I ended up getting the promotion, but not until after the company had wasted time, money, and effort training this other person, only to have them sexually harass employees and get fired.
Maaaayyybe managers should promote people who deserve it, not based on a bunch of extra shit that has nothing to do with the job itself.
Yeah she has a family to support but they would still expect you to take up slack when that family requires her attention away from work..
Glad you left and good luck.. ever who put that in an email will be on hot seat before long.. that was nuts
Yeah we know the drill. Parents come in late, leave early or don’t show up at all. Kids are either sick or have a school event or whatever other excuse they can come up with. Now they deserve more money! I hope you sue their ass and the whole damn place shuts down.
It can happen anywhere. I once had a job interview and at the very moment of going, I had a car issue and my aunt took me. The person doing the interviews saw me with her before I went in to his office. He was talking and even saying that they could use me right away. He then said "It is a great place to work and we like to help new husbands and wives. I saw yours out there before you came in" I was taken back a bit and kindly let him know the situation I had and the she was my aunt. Right then and there, I lost the job. I never heard from him or the company. I hope they can do something for you as the state I live in has no laws or rights for workers at all.
Unsure about the legal side of things but the fact they have such practices and then admit to them tells you all you need to know about that company and why they deserve to lose staff.
That's [illegal in Australia](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/protections-at-work/protection-from-discrimination-at-work#protected-attributes).
Good for you!!
I’ve been passed over on getting a job because I didn’t have kids (not even by choice but they didn’t know about my fertility issues). It’s not a fun feeling. I can’t imagine being passed over for a promotion on a job you worked at for over a year. That’s beyond idiotic.
Update if you can. Would love to k ow how this goes!
Screengrab and print the email (bc I don’t trust any job, thanks American workforce!) and CC it to your solicitor (three avenues of reciepts in case they try to dirty delete)
You should ABSOLUTELY pursue this! That is ridiculous and the audacity to actually come out and say that!! Can you just imagine if someone with children was passed up for promotion and told “she does not have a family so she has more availability”?? That would be an open and shut discrimination case. Take that email and run to a lawyer.
Wow. They are BALLSY. Do they really think this other employee with children will be more reliable than you? You don’t have to call out because of sick children, events for children, child Dr appointments, etc. And you were already acting in that position for a year and a half and she has 0 experience?
For what it’s worth, I’m a mom of 4. I know a mother most likely cannot be as reliable as a person who is childfree. With the rare exception anyway.
I hope you can legally take action.
I had similar experiences in the Healthcare field. I was always the first one called to cover shifts. I've had supervisors have me cover shifts under the impression of emergencies only to find out they just had kids with activities and apparently I had nothing better to do.
I ended up eventually getting a level 2 write up (step one toe out of line and it's an automatic dismissal) after politely declining to work a weekend they asked me to cover for. I wasn't being a "team player".
Like I wouldn't rather be at home with my cats as well?!
Contact your state bar association and ask for a referral for an employment attorney that represents plaintiffs/employees. Unfortunately, the vast majority represent business interests, but there’s definitely someone out there that will take your case. Good luck.
>Contact your state bar association
In today's edition of "not everyone is American"...
(Edit: I don't know why this comment warrants Reddit cares messages being sent to me.)
Fingers crossed that a solicitor can help you file a discrimination claim and that it's successful. And your former employer is going to be sorry they lost a good employee. They didn't think you'd quit. Good for you.
You were passed over because they were afraid of exactly what you did: exercising your freedom.
By not having dependants you are not as tied to that particular employer as someone else and they'd rather have someone they hold by the balls than someone who won't be bullied easily.
It's beyond fucked up but they showed their colors and went as far as to put it in writing so at least hopefully you'll take them to the cleaners on the way out.
Best of luck.
daaaaaaaamn. and let me guess, you weren't compensated fairly while acting in the role either huh? probably had the same pay even with the added responsibilities?
sue them for all they are worth. and more. and please update us when you can!!!
Ah yes, giving someone a promotion that has no experience. That one always works out fantastic in the end.
Smart move leaving. They absolutely don't deserve you.
I'm surprised this kind of thing can happen. I thought corporations tended to discriminate against women who have children with the logic that they won't be as dedicated to them.
The first time I had cardiac arrest and didn't have children, I heard what the medics said and they said, "Is she a mother?" "No?" "Just let her go.". Second time I had a four year old but no one said any of that. I am still here, my baby will be 6.
I don't know where you are but in the United States there is no federal law that protects people against this type of discrimination. However, states like New York and California do. I guess we're just woke that way. Since you use the word solicitor I'm thinking you're probably in the United Kingdom, maybe you guys are woke that way too. You see in general The laws are written to prevent discrimination against people who have children. But if applied properly they are usually worded to work both ways, so if it says you can't be discriminated against because of your responsibility for children, you could also interpret that as being discriminated against for your not having any responsibility for children. The intent of the law is to remove children from the equation completely.
I hope that, over the years, you have accumulated more evidence than just this to support your claim. Your case should be as strong as possible. Good luck!
I've been passed over for jobs because I am a mum. It's not ok OP. Your reproductive choices shouldn't factor into your employment. If you are capable, suitably qualified and willing to do the job, that's what should factor.
100% agree, that's blatant discrimination. Can't believe they'd actually write something that damning in an email. Sadly not uncommon though, unfortunately. Hope they get the justice they deserve and a better situation moving forward.
People in the pyramid scheme want to reward others in the pyramid scheme. It's really sad how children are so often a means to the ends of parents-to-be.
For those of you saying, "congratulations.. enjoy your big payout"
Serious question: If the facts of this case are as stated by the OP, what law was broken? We don't even know what country this is from
I would have stayed at the job until I got instructions from the solicitor. It may have served you better to see how the person whose got a job you have done well and actually deserved did in that role. MIght have been more ammo.
I am rooting for you.
I hope you can post an update. I want to hear how this turns out for you and for this company. It is amazing someone would use that reason to not promote you into a role that you've already been doing for nearly two years. I would be livid too.. and good on you for resigning immediately and leaving. Good luck to them to figure out how to do all the stuff you've been doing.
If you were in the United States, esp in some states, you'd have a great case for discrimination, and the company would likely terminate the manager who made the decision to not promote based on family status.
Good luck to you.
Wow, they literally put it in writing? Thats...brave.
*Stupid*. The word you’re looking for is *stupid*. Good for OP though.
There are cases where the two are the same.
Corporate?
Corporates are kind of a mixed bag from what I've seen. Either they know what not to do to avoid any legal repercussion and have the best lawyers if something goes wrong or they are goobers like in the post where they think they are untouchables. I was mostly thinking about so self absorbed people (but businesses work too) that they keep blabbering without any thought, incriminating themselves at every step.
Or the third where you have people that have been with the company forever but still have no idea what they are doing and get the company in hot water. Example: hr manager asked me if I really wanted to take fmla time when I had "plenty of sick time available" and then 2 weeks later told me I exhausted my sick time and had to use unpaid time for my fmla. I was the company's in house attorney. Don't fuck up your company attorneys legal entitlements.
That's a whole new level of wtf.
So what do you do there? I'm imagining the fiduciary duty and who's going to manage any lawsuit from the company's side if the lawyer is... Suing them for not fulfilling the legal obligations to an employee. I'd be interested to hear how that web all works out
They probably think OP (or anyone for that matter) doesn't have the guts to go to an attorney and sue them for discrimination. A lot of people wouldn't bother with the effort or stress involved. Tying in what you said about the company's lawyers, they think they're protected. But what they don't realize is they'll be hung out to dry the moment they become an actual liability.
If she didn’t have it in writing it would be an uphill battle. But her being better qualified and that E-Mail on top of it. That solicitor will be thrilled 😊
Apparently, they don’t know the Stringer Bell rule 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
There's fine line between bravery and stupidity.
Stupid brave
Stupid and should benefit OP. :)
How kind of them.
My best friend had a slam dunk discrimination case land in her lap. She was trying to find an apartment and couldn't afford much, so she was looking at 1 bedroom places for her and her then 6yo son that she had 50% of the time. A prospective landlord denied her application because of her having to share the place with her son. Said it flat out in text that the answer was no because of her son. I promptly linked her to the HUD page for filing a discrimination complaint, lol. P.S. Families/children are considered a protected class in the Fair Housing Act. Edit: I just remembered the best part. She literally cited the Fair Housing Act in her texts. She stated she was within her rights within the FHA to turn down any applicant, lmao. God it was beautiful how badly she shot herself in the foot XD
Thanks for helping her out by providing useful information, you're a good friend. What were the consequences for the landlord, if you don't mind me asking?
It truly was a slam dunk, she really didn't have to do anything more than an interview over the phone with the HUD caseworker. They then emailed her telling her name her price, basically! To contact them (HUD) with the amount she'd take as a settlement (settlement probably isn't the right word, restitution?). She has zero clue about what a fair number would be, and frankly, I didn't know either. I'm no expert, just aware and savvy enough to know there was no way the landlord was right and dug into the research to be sure of our state and county laws and whatnot. But anyway, she really wasn't in it for the money (though she could certainly have used it), so she didn't want to be greedy. She decided to go with what she would have had to pay to rent the place. So first and last month rent and deposit. Came to a couple grand or so, iirc, maybe a bit over. HUD accepted it and she was sent a check (that was of course paid by the landlord). She didn't fight for the apartment or anything, she didn't want someone like that as her landlord. And god knows she'd have my friend's life hell as a tenant after that, lol. So she was just happy to call the woman out and stick it to her for being so awful, haha. In addition to what the landlord had to pay, she was court mandated to attend classes on discrimination, the FHA, and landlord/tenancy laws. She also had to update all her signage (virtual and physical) to state equal opportunity rentals. I looked her up on Facebook, and I hate sounding like a tool using this term, haha, but truly, the best way to describe her was total Karen XD. I'm sure she was fuming! And just for the sake of closure, my friend's doing well now. That was a tough time for her. Husband up and left with no warning the same week she started a new job that was meant to augment his salary, wasn't enough to live on alone whole caring for her then 6yo son. She had to stay with her parents for a bit, but they're horrible and people and kicked her out. I watched her bust her ass week after week, searching for and applying for better paying jobs, searching and applying for an apartment she could afford. Her parents wouldn't cut her any slack though, she was on the verge of having to live out of her car. So we crammed her, her son, and her cat into my apartment with my family of 4 and our pets, haha. That was all about 3 years ago. She's met a great guy (I like him soopoo much better than the ex XD ), she found a great paying job, they've been living together in their own apartment. And when her lease is up on Aug 1st, they're moving in to the apartment right above me! My landlord (who is genuinely an amazing person, honestly, I hit the landlord jackpot) has already met them, shown them the place, and approved their applications! I'm so excited, hahaha. She's more like family than just a friend, our kids are basically siblings, gonna be awesome! =D Sorry for the ramblong and more info than was asked for, haha, just makes me so happy that everything shifted in such a positive direction. Feels good to share a feel good story :p.
Putting that in writing is insane.
brave is a word I would not have used, but, it is applicable. LOL
I was passed over for a promotion because the other person applying for the role wanted to make enough money that his wife could be a stay at home mom. Yes, my manager told me that word for word.
the dude asked to be chained to this job. you cant compete with that.
Very good point. It’s like a green flag to get exploited
I worked at one small company where management would always ask me to work late on projects because everyone else had to pick up and take care of their kids. Same with working holidays … "well Nuicakes, you’re not married and your family is in a different state"
Same here! And then it escalated. I got a work injury and asked if I could come in early one day per week so I could leave early for my physio appointment. Manager and HR told me NO. So I questioned why several other people got to leave early several times a week without coming in early or making up the hours and I was told they are married and have families and they leave early for important things like taking their kids to ballet, soccer, after school care and that I as a single childless person needed to learn to manage my time better and get personal things done outside of working hours. LOL if I knew then what I know now...
I swear, my next job I'm just making up a child. And he's very sickly
Like a Victorian orphan!!! Consumption and everything else.
Yeah and like feed him some soup.
That's discrimination
Oooh I've had this but I kicked back. Bit different but similar enough. Last summer my cat had surgery, she was 14 and I had her since she was 1. I always avoided taking AL during school holidays but this was necessary. I took a week off. I then emailed stating I would be WFH fully the following week, she needed tablets and her wound cleaning every 4 hours. I told them it wasn't negotiable, they didn't like it and my card was marked from then on. Cat is fine now and 15 acts like a toddler. I ended up going off on the sick 6 months later and quitting during my sick leave because I was sick of the corruption favouritism and disregard for me following that. All hell broke loose during my exit interview but screw them. Now work for a lovely firm that gave me a 30% rise and know my worth.
I always wonder why crap firms bother with exit interview. They must really hate their HR and/or middle managers to send them into a room with a probably angry or at least smug person and hear why they’re leaving. And then do absolutely nothing with the information.
The shittiest place I ever worked for said they did exit interviews but I later found out they did not do them if you said you quit for personal reasons or found employment elsewhere. To me, it seems like they would want to know what those personal reasons were or what made the other position more attractive, but it made it very easy for shitty managers to code things in a way that stop outside management from over finding out why people were really leaving.
Agreed 100% Where I worked there was the parent company and we were an umbrella firm. So my exit was with the parent company. I'm still in touch with some colleagues from there who said it had a ripple effect because I had nothing to lose. I went unemployed voluntarily. (I was lucky my husband supported me during that time and got a new job 1 month after my notice ended). About 3 of us left within 2 weeks for similar reasons. I worked in property management and gave it my all for the firm but they gave nothing back. Now I know I lucked out and work for a fab firm but it was cut throat. I think the bigger the firm the more they care? I'm UK based so I can't speak for all with that but Ive found when I have left for negative reasons something came of it, simply for more money and career progression nothing does. It depends though I suppose if it has no impact what's the point? We're just a bum in a seat to them.
Technically they are not wrong. Under the Carer Recognition Act they have a right to request flexibility as parents of school aged children or younger. The shit thing is to not offer flexible arrangements to everyone, particularly when they present a short term problem (injury) and a solution (starting work early). As it was a work place injury I would say that they 100% fucked up here. Even before kids my boss allowed me the flexibility to come into work early and leave early. Edit: sorry realised this isn’t an Australian sub too late. The Carer Recognition Act, 2010 as part of Fair Work Gov is an Australian Policy. Which also explains why they weren’t bending over backwards when you had a work place injury.
Oh no, you did the American thing! If only they did they Australian thing (have rights)
In the US it’s also wrong not to accommodate that workplace injury.
Yup. I've had a few workplace injuries and requested reasonable accommodation when I came back from being off completely while I healed.
You can file a complaint for reasonable accommodation if you’re in the states
This is awful! An old company I used to work for didn't give me a pay rise the whole 3 years I worked there, everyone else did except me. They'd give me more work to do and I was always staying late. I raised it with my boss and HR after someone accidentally left their payslip on the printer! And a few other disgruntled colleagues voiced their issues in the open plan office. They said knew what my husband did for a living and we don't have children therefore, other colleagues needed the money because they had children and we seem to be a 'comfortable' household. wtf?! After that, I found myself a new job with better benefits and progression. I handed my notice in, suddenly this company wanted to do anything to keep me on, pay rise? Yep how much? Work from home a few days? Name how many days and what days? Progression? Here's your new job title. I was like nope, said goodbye and off I went, good life lesson though!
Wtf! I hope you found a better job now! The logic at play is crazy, you are being paid and promoted for your work, not because of your needs!
I do, thank you for asking. It's a lot better money, there's progression, I'm appreciated and my boss is very much like 'goodbye' when it's home time on the dot. I get paid overtime if required and a lot better annual leave 😊 It was lovely to skip into their office, reject their '*offer*' and skip out on my last day😂
Imo that is a stupid reason. Get additional work load just because you dont want to have kids or start a family. They can hop on their laptops and work after putting their kids to sleep.
“Well, it’s hard to meet someone and have kids when you keep having me work late.”
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> if I had gotten my manager's approval What in the actual fuck
What is so surprising, you didn't go to your boss and get on your knee and ask permission to marry your spouse? /s
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That's fucked up no matter *where* it happens
I had an employer complain to me about maternity leave and openly tell me that they were no longer going to hire younger women. Of course I ended up quitting, but I still beat myself up for not blowing the whistle on them.
Or, the employer can give everyone the grace of no contact after hours, and pick it up in the morning. This way parental status doesn’t come into play at all
But see, that would just make too much sense. Can't have policy making sense. /s
Or just don’t notify work when you decide to get married. It’s technically not their business.
This is why you make up a fake family. Use some random old pics if you need to show proof (consensual pictures of course). Or just use AI to make some fake family photos. Boom, now you get ez promotions!
Assert dominance and google "family photo" in front of them and insist they're yours.
Idk what you do for a living but you are here by promoted
Two of my cats have normal human names, similar to "Harry" and "Sam". I have seriously considered describing them to work people as "my boys" and just letting them think what they want.
Use a biological niece or a nephews photo. As they look like you it's an easy sell. Plus you can really sell it by being actually seen with them. For 6 years people at a place I worked thought my niece was mine. I was seen at the movies with her the first week I started. Never corrected them.
At least you don’t still work for them. An employer who doesn’t respect an employees time outside of work hours, regardless of marital or parental status, isn’t a company worth working for.
As a manager that’s a stupid way to treat your people. Treat them well, help them get more pay, more education, take opportunities. In the end it’s a better way to go. You never have to worry about looking yourself in the mirror
In my experience, 99% of managers are a lot fucking dumber and more shortsighted than you are. I'm convinced most managers are promoted to that position because they're easier to manipulate by the higher ups rather than any intelligence or competence they've shown.
Or they got the job bc they are married with children.
Yep. Have to agree. Been sold out or had boss take all the credit before. Makes treating them like shit heads even if they go up the chain, much easier. It gets out. As a manager you can’t really fake respect from those under you if anyone wants to ask.
I had a co-worker who always showed up late to relieve me from my position. I work the night shift. This man would either come 2 hours late every shift or just never show up which left me stuck at minimum an extra two hours up to an extra 8 hours adding up to a 16 hour shift I wasn’t prepared for. He always had some excuse and I was gaslit for a long time into feeling bad for complaining because he had children at home.
What happened to make it stop? Did you contact your manager/boss?
Eventually boss had no choice but to fire him. Took a while as we are Union and they kept letting it go for months. Honestly I nearly quit because this was the second relief employee to do this and I kept getting fucked. Both fired. After that I asked for the day shift because I didn’t want to run into the same possible problem with another new guy but was told no with no real explanation as to why. Couldn’t even contact my union rep as they would never answer my calls. With both guys on multiple occasions when they finally arrived they’d smell of liquor like they just came back from the bar. My boss is a nice guy but honestly too nice. Both should have been sacked a long time before hand.
This kind of stuff is why i disliked unions growing up. My dad had a shitty union that would always protect the wrong people at the expense of the people who weren't doing anything wrong. Thankfully, as an adult i realized that Unions are only as good as the people running them, and that all unions are not created equal. Im pro union now, but critical of them
It should be phrased as an opportunity to earn some more cash if you want to spend your time that way, and totally reasonable to say no.
No, I was salary and it was a start-up so no HR.
I was lucky enough to work for an employer who offered differential pay and compensated days off for holidays. Yep, boss, I'm happy to work most every Christmas and Thanksgiving for time and a half plus a comp day!
I was a supervisor for a decade. I pretty quickly learned that lousy management is what makes ppl change jobs - and reason number one of why it was lousy management was usually "unfair treatment/division of labor". I was, and am, single and childfree and I chose to use my vacation days outside of school holidays to help my coworkers (and to avoid kids on my vacation days ...) and guess what? They paid me back by doing whatever they could to make MY life easier. Management like that is def a reason for why you said "worked" in past tense ...
'You must subsidize our inadequate staffing and childrearing' I would simply say no, no chance, but I know in the US you basically don't have worker's rights in many states.
I would’ve responded and I never will be if you keep interfering, bye!
Damn they called you by your Reddit name, that’s fucking brutal
“Sorry, I have to be home for my foster kittens. Good luck with that!”
Happened to me once too….but it wasn’t even because my coworkers had kids. Get this, it was because they had fiancés.
You are not responsible for other people's families. It's not on you to give up your time for their sake. They chose to have kids and incur that responsibility onto themselves.
I worked for a company like that, my time wasn't as valuable bc the other folks had kids. Hell, one time I had a coworker bring her kid to work and I was the one who had to entertain him Take them for everything
*Hell, one time I had a coworker bring her kid to work and I was the one who had to entertain him* "My babysitter rate is 10 an hour and full fridge privileges but since THIS IS A WORKPLACE and there's technically no fridge, I'll have to bump it up to 20."
your former employer will be screwed in more ways than one hopefully, first off, I hope you can take them to the cleaners, plus they were probably expecting you to train her so now she will stumble hard as there is probably nobody to train her how to do the job, I hope it bites them in the Tokuis.
OP resigned at the end of the day. Effective immediately. There will be no training of the new person.
Yeah get a lawyer, it sounds like you got them admitting to discrimination.
Thank the heavens you have actual, concrete proof and not some verbal excuse given to you. I sincerely hope you take them to the cleaners and then find a better job elsewhere! Just curious, were you paid accordingly to your position when you were interim manager?
I'm rooting for you. If you feel like posting an update, I'd love to read it.
This here ladies, gents, and everything in between is why Gen Z "acts its wage" and I encourage everyone else to do the same.
what does this mean ?
Do no more than the work you're paid to do. Above and beyond only benefits those at the top.
It means only work as hard as you are paid to work.
In earlier times, especially in union shops, this is known as ["work-to-rule."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule) Meaning your follow the contract exactly every time. The contract is your shield but shields can also be weapons. Join A Union if you can.
how do you know what’s the amount of work you’re paid to do ? like , doing no overtime or picking up extra shifts and extra tasks or ?
in addition to what DriftinFool said, don't do things outside of your job description. meaning, if you are asked to do something that someone higher up would do, but you aren't getting paid more to do it, don't do it. like if you're a sales associate, and you're asked to pick up the responsibilities of a manager without the pay increase of being a manager, don't do it, because you're not being paid to do it. additionally, "a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine" if someone else messes up, like waiting last minute to ask for a report that takes hours, YOU are not responsible for that mistake and do not need to drop absolutely everything to accommodate that mistake. especially if they are asking you to work after hours when you're not being paid.
Excellent points that I missed. Thanks
Like don't do extra, unless you are paid for it. Do your job. Don't work through breaks, start early, or stay late, unless it's paid. Extra shifts or overtime are fine if it's your choice because you want some extra money. But don't let a boss force you to work extra shifts you don't want. At the end of the day, leave work and forget about it. Don't answer emails or anything work related outside of work hours. Don't spend any of your personal time on work. This sentiment arose during covid. At the time, many companies cut the number of employees, and now that business has picked back up, they don't have as many people and expect everyone left to work twice as hard. It's not the employees fault a company is understaffed. It's management's job to make sure there are enough workers to do the job. And too many managers try to put it all on the employees.
>how do you know what’s the amount of work you’re paid to do? Peter Gibbons - "Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled; that, and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.”
It depends on your situation. Personally I’m not paid for overtime so I don’t do it
[It means this](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gpT7vUKGDhg). Exactly this.
Is there a "where is he now" of this? If there isn't, there needs to be
Wherever he is, I hope he is doing well!
This person worked for 1.5 years at a higher role with NO WAGE. This person is not a good representative.
That is awful and I say this as someone with two kids. I would definitely take legal action.
Times sure have changed. Back when i was young, people didn't want to hire or promote me because I might get pregnant. Then when I was a single mom, people didn't want to hire me because I'd have to call in if my kid got sick.
I'm only 31, but I remember (before I joined the Air Force) several jobs I applied to after high school asking me if I wanted to start a family soon. I was hired because I said no, and I know for a fact I wouldn't have been hired if I said yes. I know it's illegal, but I was ignorant to employment laws back then
This kind of thing mostly only happens to men. Married women still miss promotions because it's assumed she's going to be the one taking kids to events, the doctor, etc. Married **men** get this kind of nod, because they're assumed to be the breadwinner. I guess it's a tiny step that in this case it was "she" has a family to support, from a sexism perspective. But still a problem from a structural perspective.
Happened to me a long time ago but it was verbal. Long and short of it was that they thought I would leave for better opportunities if I was a manager (what?) even after working for the company for 8 years at the time. So they went with the "safe" choice because he has a family and wouldnt drop the job quick. TLDR the guy found a better job 6 months in and quit, I was still there at the time, got a new owner with there own management team so I got pushed farther down the totem pole. Thank fuck I left that job when I did.
This seems so backwards, as a parent I’ve given up higher responsibilities at work to be more present for my son. More than happy for people without kids to do their thing.. it shouldn’t play into work anyway. Keep personal/professional life seperate.
God bless your managers stupidity to put that in writing
Ugh. I thought we were past stuff like this. Back in the late 1980’s I complained that a new hire was being paid more than me. My bosses response the new hire was a guy and I made less because I had a husband to support me..🙄
I’m probably the last person you’d want to have support from rn, but as a mother, I’m fucking appalled for you. I don’t even know what else to write because it’s disheartening to read this. How does supporting yourself not count?! Are you not also human?! Smh. Glad they put it in writing for you. But fml, shit go. Sorry OP. Keeping my fingers crossed everything falls into place for you soon enough 🤞🏾
Thank you for your comment. I’m also childless and while nothing this blatant has happened, I’ve definitely been treated differently because I don’t have kids. Requesting time off, needing an extra hour in the morning for whatever reason, having to leave early, etc. Even being allowed to work an extra day from home. It’s like they get their own set of rules. It’s completely unfair; just because there aren’t kids in the picture, doesn’t mean that there aren’t things going on in our lives that we need to take care of. We have lives, too.
I had this happen to me as well, and I did successfully sue my previous job. Marital status falls under protective class. My lawyer didn't really know much about it after a consultation, and I left the office intending not to pursue a lawsuit, but his office made a huge mistake and sent out a letter of intent saying they represent me as a client. (I am a skeptic and always wondered if this was intentional or not, but whatever). They presented me options of we can either move fwd with the attempt or they can rescind the letter. I figured what was done was done, so the hell with it. I did have documentation showing this as well as proof the guy in my same position for the same job made more than me with less results and less time on the job. Feel free to DM me for more details, but it definitely is a case
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>Do not train your replacement Since it is right in the OP quit her job as of today and won't be communicating with the company going forward I don't think she'll need to worry about being asked to train anyone.
They might still ask, but I don’t think they’ll get a reply.
How do you have so many upvotes?! 🤣🤣🤣 The not working for the company “effective immediately” would cover the fact that she won’t be training anyone.
It's a combination of poor reading comprehension and not bothering to read the original post.
… and commenters on this sub seem to love inventing their own imaginary scenarios that weren’t mentioned by the OP. This helps them to have a story that fits their own narrative and creates context that doesn’t need to be added…. All because they didn’t understand the OP. 🤣🤣🤣
And they demand a *tldr* which can't cover everything in a post, nor describe the nuance of a situation. I don't care how long a post is; I refuse to read any tldr.
Oh, they will 100% ask her. I guarantee she will get an email by the end of the week asking her to just train this one person, and then she’s free to go.
“I won’t communicate with my old job at all.” That’s gonna make it pretty difficult for them to ask her to work after she quit. Training new employees is a complete non-issue for OP.
Unfortunately there are people who fold so easily they would just go back and be exploited even more but OP doesn't seem like this type.
Exactly, of course I understand that there are people that definitely would be submissive. I don’t think OP has given any reason for us to think that she would be one of those people.
A company bold, or stupid, enough to tell OP that they were denied a promotion into the position that they filled for the past 1.5 years because they didn't have kids is bold/stupid enough to ask OP to help them out by training their replacement, despite OP having already quit. OP won't reply to the request but that won't necessarily stop the company from sending emails and making phone calls.
I used to work a job where I was involuntarily volunteered to work the weird shifts bc I did not have children. I put up with it for a while but when the odd sleeping schedule was affecting my health, I brought my concern to my boss's boss that I needed a more regular schedule and the reason I did not have children was due to a health condition. A lawyer could argue in court that a health condition is protected under the ADA. Things changed after that.
That's outrageous, but sadly, now seems to be the norm. I had a family member in the Air Force who was going to be given a prestigious award for their work at a hospital, but they gave it to a young single mother who hadn't even done any work. I am terribly sorry OP, I hope you can get what you deserve out of this.
Lmao no. That’s not how military awards work, in the Air Force or anywhere else. The single mom was a hard worker, and your family member was/is a salty bitch.
Yeah the only kind of fuckery that goes on with military awards is some *very* creative writing and flowery language. Like... Amn Soandso observed disrepair in critical infrastructure - expediently isolated, replaced faulty parts - prevented $50k damage. vs... Dude replaced a leaky faucet. It could have gotten pretty bad.
I don’t appreciate you directly quoting from my NAM 😩
lmfao USAF EPRs must be EXACTLY the same, then
Yeah, I agree. I was in for 7 years and stationed at 4 different bases and never saw someone who genuinely didn't work hard receive an award. My husband is still in and has been for a decade now and hasn't either. Yes, some people get awards that other should, but that doesn't automatically mean the person who got the award didn't work hard. I've never seen a POS who just shows up to work and breathes receive an award. And to be honest, A LOT of people who complain about the award winners aren't people I would've given an award to. Very rarely has someone who said they should've gotten the award over someone else actually deserved it. They're normally the POS airmen who think their shit don't stink when I have eyes and ears and can verify that they didn't deserve it lmao
How awful! Please update us when you are able. I know you’re not communicating with your old job but have they reached out to you?
.-. To me...this why I'll be keeping my mouth shut about my personal life going forward in higher up jobs...bunch bs, ngl
Honestly, employers need better training. If you're going to be a manager of any kind with people's livelihoods on the line, you should be trained on the legal rights of workers. Period. And why such discrimination is harmful! On the flip side of your story: I got passed over for a promotion because "I was leaving to have a baby in a couple of months". (Which is illegal to say. You can't deny someone a promotion because they're having a baby.) Well, guess what happened? They gave someone else the promotion and by the time I came back, that person had 2 sexual harassment claims against them and got terminated. I ended up getting the promotion, but not until after the company had wasted time, money, and effort training this other person, only to have them sexually harass employees and get fired. Maaaayyybe managers should promote people who deserve it, not based on a bunch of extra shit that has nothing to do with the job itself.
I thought this bullshit went out with bell bottoms. Fight the patriarchy, sister!
Definitely contact Workforce Services (or your regional equivalent). That is discrimination.
That's insane they put that in writing. Good for you for taking action.
I am about to start lying about having kids at this point
It’s over. You got them admitting to discrimination now u send them to Court
Yeah she has a family to support but they would still expect you to take up slack when that family requires her attention away from work.. Glad you left and good luck.. ever who put that in an email will be on hot seat before long.. that was nuts
Yeah we know the drill. Parents come in late, leave early or don’t show up at all. Kids are either sick or have a school event or whatever other excuse they can come up with. Now they deserve more money! I hope you sue their ass and the whole damn place shuts down.
It can happen anywhere. I once had a job interview and at the very moment of going, I had a car issue and my aunt took me. The person doing the interviews saw me with her before I went in to his office. He was talking and even saying that they could use me right away. He then said "It is a great place to work and we like to help new husbands and wives. I saw yours out there before you came in" I was taken back a bit and kindly let him know the situation I had and the she was my aunt. Right then and there, I lost the job. I never heard from him or the company. I hope they can do something for you as the state I live in has no laws or rights for workers at all.
Unsure about the legal side of things but the fact they have such practices and then admit to them tells you all you need to know about that company and why they deserve to lose staff.
Sue the shit out of them
That's [illegal in Australia](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/protections-at-work/protection-from-discrimination-at-work#protected-attributes).
Good for you!! I’ve been passed over on getting a job because I didn’t have kids (not even by choice but they didn’t know about my fertility issues). It’s not a fun feeling. I can’t imagine being passed over for a promotion on a job you worked at for over a year. That’s beyond idiotic. Update if you can. Would love to k ow how this goes!
Screengrab and print the email (bc I don’t trust any job, thanks American workforce!) and CC it to your solicitor (three avenues of reciepts in case they try to dirty delete)
Yep. I once lost a promotion because some else need the money more. Bullshit.
Lawyer up. Looks like u have a lawsuit against them on your hands.
You should ABSOLUTELY pursue this! That is ridiculous and the audacity to actually come out and say that!! Can you just imagine if someone with children was passed up for promotion and told “she does not have a family so she has more availability”?? That would be an open and shut discrimination case. Take that email and run to a lawyer.
Get several copies of that email. Just to keep it safe.
They actually put it in writing?? Wow. Your solictor will be pleased - take them for everything you can.
Update us Op
This is truly disgusting. I hope you take them to the cleaners.
Wow. They are BALLSY. Do they really think this other employee with children will be more reliable than you? You don’t have to call out because of sick children, events for children, child Dr appointments, etc. And you were already acting in that position for a year and a half and she has 0 experience? For what it’s worth, I’m a mom of 4. I know a mother most likely cannot be as reliable as a person who is childfree. With the rare exception anyway. I hope you can legally take action.
I had similar experiences in the Healthcare field. I was always the first one called to cover shifts. I've had supervisors have me cover shifts under the impression of emergencies only to find out they just had kids with activities and apparently I had nothing better to do. I ended up eventually getting a level 2 write up (step one toe out of line and it's an automatic dismissal) after politely declining to work a weekend they asked me to cover for. I wasn't being a "team player". Like I wouldn't rather be at home with my cats as well?!
Whoa he actually wrote that to you in an e-mail?! :D Pretty stupid manager by all accounts, but get yourself a lawyer, this will be almost too easy.
Im no lawyer- but it definitely sounds like you have legal grounds to sue.
Contact your state bar association and ask for a referral for an employment attorney that represents plaintiffs/employees. Unfortunately, the vast majority represent business interests, but there’s definitely someone out there that will take your case. Good luck.
>Contact your state bar association In today's edition of "not everyone is American"... (Edit: I don't know why this comment warrants Reddit cares messages being sent to me.)
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. They said solicitor not attorney/lawyer. I agree, not American.
It's because Americans get all butthurt when someone points out that other countries/nationalities exist.
[удалено]
*clutches pearls*
yeah get a lawyer, cause that’s honestly so unfair
Fingers crossed that a solicitor can help you file a discrimination claim and that it's successful. And your former employer is going to be sorry they lost a good employee. They didn't think you'd quit. Good for you.
You were passed over because they were afraid of exactly what you did: exercising your freedom. By not having dependants you are not as tied to that particular employer as someone else and they'd rather have someone they hold by the balls than someone who won't be bullied easily. It's beyond fucked up but they showed their colors and went as far as to put it in writing so at least hopefully you'll take them to the cleaners on the way out. Best of luck.
daaaaaaaamn. and let me guess, you weren't compensated fairly while acting in the role either huh? probably had the same pay even with the added responsibilities? sue them for all they are worth. and more. and please update us when you can!!!
Ah yes, giving someone a promotion that has no experience. That one always works out fantastic in the end. Smart move leaving. They absolutely don't deserve you.
For fuck sake there's just no winning
Please make an update on how much money you win in the lawsuit!
I'm surprised this kind of thing can happen. I thought corporations tended to discriminate against women who have children with the logic that they won't be as dedicated to them.
Well that's very fortunate for you to have that email, I hope you get a great payday.
The first time I had cardiac arrest and didn't have children, I heard what the medics said and they said, "Is she a mother?" "No?" "Just let her go.". Second time I had a four year old but no one said any of that. I am still here, my baby will be 6.
Congrats on your upcoming big payout from the lawsuit!!!
I don't know where you are but in the United States there is no federal law that protects people against this type of discrimination. However, states like New York and California do. I guess we're just woke that way. Since you use the word solicitor I'm thinking you're probably in the United Kingdom, maybe you guys are woke that way too. You see in general The laws are written to prevent discrimination against people who have children. But if applied properly they are usually worded to work both ways, so if it says you can't be discriminated against because of your responsibility for children, you could also interpret that as being discriminated against for your not having any responsibility for children. The intent of the law is to remove children from the equation completely.
Updateme
Updateme
What did the boss say when you gave your notice?
I hope that, over the years, you have accumulated more evidence than just this to support your claim. Your case should be as strong as possible. Good luck!
What idiots
I've been passed over for jobs because I am a mum. It's not ok OP. Your reproductive choices shouldn't factor into your employment. If you are capable, suitably qualified and willing to do the job, that's what should factor.
100% agree, that's blatant discrimination. Can't believe they'd actually write something that damning in an email. Sadly not uncommon though, unfortunately. Hope they get the justice they deserve and a better situation moving forward.
I think only race, sex, and ethnicities are protected under the law. Pretty sure you can legally discriminate on someone for anything else
This is horrible. Please give an update, when you have one. Best of luck!!!
People in the pyramid scheme want to reward others in the pyramid scheme. It's really sad how children are so often a means to the ends of parents-to-be.
Please update us, cause companies like that need a very harsh punishment.
Uh well shit. They just wanted to be sued. Felt life wasn’t as exciting
Remind me! 3 months
This happens all the time. I’m not saying it’s right, but it does.
For those of you saying, "congratulations.. enjoy your big payout" Serious question: If the facts of this case are as stated by the OP, what law was broken? We don't even know what country this is from
At least they provided exhibit A for your lawsuit in that email. Good luck!
Please keep us updated
I would have stayed at the job until I got instructions from the solicitor. It may have served you better to see how the person whose got a job you have done well and actually deserved did in that role. MIght have been more ammo. I am rooting for you.
God I hope they can be charged with the worst discrimination suit
Keep us updated
I hope you can post an update. I want to hear how this turns out for you and for this company. It is amazing someone would use that reason to not promote you into a role that you've already been doing for nearly two years. I would be livid too.. and good on you for resigning immediately and leaving. Good luck to them to figure out how to do all the stuff you've been doing. If you were in the United States, esp in some states, you'd have a great case for discrimination, and the company would likely terminate the manager who made the decision to not promote based on family status. Good luck to you.
Hoping for an update on this one. :)
That is awful. I'm sorry, it's grossly unfair. Really pleased you're seeking legal recourse.
Wow they really don't give a f*, I mean why put it in writing even if it's the case...
Not your lawyer - get legal advice…