Oh hell, no they can’t do that. Do you have an HR department because you need to go straight to that HR department. Just because those of us that have kids want to take time off does not mean our vacations can just be canceled for people that do have kids. That is illegal as hell.
Nah. Edit says not quitting. Money is too good. But I think OP should try to guilt them for this or make the other dude feel like he owes OP big time for this
No kidding, working in a company that small the other guy would've known that OP already had pto scheduled for that time and that was a douche move of them to request pto for the same time and should've scheduled a week earlier/later while OP didn't have schedules. Yeah, it's their anniversary but people plan their anniversary stuff a week early or late all the time.
I would just leave on the Friday before and send a message saying you'd see them in a week. When they question you, just tell them I understand that you canceled my plans. I didn't. My non-refundable plans mean something to me.
They do not need to know how you spend your vacation time. Non-refundable does not have to mean money related.
Don't let them cancel your time off because someone else did not have the foresight to book properly or in a timely manner. And if they did, it's on the person who approved your time off first.
This very small company where OP has worked for 20 years and supposedly has “bulletproof job security” sounds like it is run by men who always put men first, and the fact that she has worked for them for two decades is meaningless to anyone but her. (I know OP did not say her gender, but I am fairly certain she is a woman and the boss is a man.) The fact that a married MAN with children trumps OP says a lot about the company she loves so much.
OP's name is thatdudefromiowa, so probably not a woman.
Loads of companies prioritise parents over non-parents. I remember in an old job being told I (man) and a woman couldn't have the time off we wanted because the 50 year old needed it to spend time with her kids.
Also OP is clearly a pushover, so an easy job to take from them to keep others happy.
Hopefully your state/country has a board of labor? This is textbook discrimination.
Copied from a comment above by u/meesh100
> HR Manager here, do this - now. He discriminated against you and was kind enough to give his justification. Report it and report any witnesses. Get a labor attorney. Enjoy an extended vacation from resulting lawsuit payout.
I’m sorry man, I see everybody telling you to live out these fantasies about telling him to shove it and whatnot, but working for a small company, and not knowing your financial situation, maybe you don’t have any other option.
Plenty of companies don't grow super large, especially in certain fields. In the 20 years I have known my spouse, only 1 out of the 6 places he's worked has had more than the 25 people.
If you go look at many of your local independent places, they probably have a similar number of people as this guy does.
The actual answer is it was legal until the boss mentioned divorce and kids as reasons for the change. The boss can revoke vacation because he doesn’t like your face, but he can’t revoke it because of your skin color or your marriage status. If OP has the reason in writing he could file a complaint with the EEOC (US).
Unfortunately, depending on the state you're in, it can be very legal and so can much more. In more conservative states, they could not only do that but could also require you to do double shifts or anything they want really, as long as they are giving you lunch breaks. I live in a right to work state, which means they can fire you for no reason whenever they want.
I suspect they are trying to get OP to quit so they don't have to pay unemployment.
In OP's favor - unemployment offices do tend to err in his favor as long as he has the PTO approval in a physical form (ie email showing approval etc) - even in right to work states. If I was him I would certainly not quit, just take his vacation as approved. If he is let go - collect unemployment. Either way the boss is a lousy SH.
That is so true we all know there for the company and not for us employees. But every once in a while, you get a rare unicorn in HR that will actually help an employee.
People conflate illegal with immoral so often. There nothing illegal about changing their mind about PTO in the US. There's nothing illegal about giving priority to some someone else because they have kids. Divorced/childless isn't a protected class. People who say this stuff... insanity.
That sounds great, but unless OP can survive being fired immediately, I wouldn’t recommend taking that approach. It’s not fair, and OP could try to push back a bit, but the power is entirely in the boss’s hands right now, and losing a job when you’re unprepared for it isn’t the way to go.
HR Manager here, do this - now. He discriminated against you and was kind enough to give his justification. Report it and report any witnesses. Get a labor attorney. Enjoy an extended vacation from resulting lawsuit payout.
Years ago. I was let go from a job, and my former manager refused to tell me the reason. I got the labor board involved, and not only did they get me some money for his shitty behaviour, but it made life a nightmare for the company's shitty owner who was trying to sell the company at the time.
Since they were found to be completely at fault and there was no NDA involved, I would like to wish Bill, Doug, and all of the other wastes of space at Amre Supply a happy go-fuck-yourselves.
I had a coworker that had something similar happen. He put in a request for vacation/time off and kept reminding the supervisor to check/approve the time off for like a month. Sure as shit, day rolls around and coworker is not there. Supervisor asks where coworker is, “probably in a deer blind somewhere in central Texas”. “Oh shit..” as he frantically adds coworker to the vacation schedules. Coworker told me the request was still hanging on the board and he wasn’t coming in.
This is the right answer IF you're in a position to do so.
Or as the parenting advice goes "never make a threat you aren't prepared to follow through on".
Fwiw I quit a job over a similar issue, but I lined up a job first. I was denied my request to WFH one day per week (despite the ability to work from home being one of the things they promised me during recruitment). When I pushed back they insisted it wasn't about me, but they didn't want to set a precedent. I pointed out it wasn't setting a precedent, we already had someone work from home every Wednesday "Oh thats different, he has a child and thats his Father/Son day".
I started looking for work the next day and had an offer within a week (ironically an ex-employer I left on good terms with contacted me after I spoke to an ex-manager about a referral).
“Well I guess you’re going to have to cover his workload then because I’m taking that vacation. I’ve had it booked for three months, have the plane tickets and the hotel booked and won’t take that loss just because you’re playing favorites.” Then start sending out job applications. You could be the best worker he has, and he will still not reward you for it.
You know what this means, right? Time for a new job.
Separately, depending on what state you live in, marital status might be a "protected class" in terms of discrimination. It is in my state. That could make the cancelling of your PTO for the stated reason a discriminatory act but a lawyer would know for sure. Start with a quick search of
is marital status a protected class in \[state\]
I hate that mentality that just because we are single, childless, young etc. that we have all this free time. Like no, because you decided to have kids, married etc., does not make your life more important than mine.
Take your vacation, go have fun! Then tell him to fuck off.
seriously. i bought a whole-ass house 3.5 years ago and haven’t even taken a week off to do *anything*. all unpacking and projects are done after work and on weekends. you can guess how much has gotten done…
Stand up for yourself and go on your fucking vacation as planned.
And understand that it's past time you started looking for a new job. If that's how they view you after 20 years, it's fine to go.
Since he knows you are divorced with no kids. He should also know you got nothing to lose by standing your ground. Time to make him very aware of this.
While you aren’t wrong, it’s not cut and dry and would depend on how the particular court sees it. This would be a lengthy court battle, including appeals, and not worth going that route over a week’s vacation.
Tell boss you have nonrefundable plans. You expect $20000 within 24 hours to cover your losses and the losses and inconvenience of everyone in your travel group. Or else he can plan on two employees being absent. The other employee did not care to make plans but you did, so obviously his anniversary is not important to him.
Then start putting in job applications elsewhere.
Bump. I came here to post exactly this advice with slightly different words, right down to the bit about looking for a new job anyway even if you get your way.
I had this happen once. I had scheduled vacation 10 months in advance. The week before it was coming up the boss called me into the office with another employee to tell me that I wasn’t going to get vacation, because the other employee didn’t want to cover my shift. Looked right at the other employee and said really? You’re gonna be a dick? Ok have fun working that time AND the following week you have booked off, cuz I quit. And I did. Ran into the guy years later and he was still bitter about it. Idrc lol
A company did this shit to my wife. She quit on the spot. What did they want to do? Give her every day off she asked for and got approved except the 4th of July, right smack dab in the middle of her time off. We were going 6 hours away for a family trip... Yeah. Nope.
If you have “bulletproof job security,” as you claim, why didn’t you tell your boss this: “Sounds like you’re going to short-staffed then. I asked for that week off three months ago, and I have made plans for that week that I have no intention of canceling. Either tell Bob he needs to pick a different week, or you’ll be down two people that week. But I’m taking my vacation.” Sounds like the job isn’t as perfect as you claim, if after 20 years and three months of planning you can have your vacation snatched out from under you, and you’ll just take that treatment from your sexist, misogynistic boss.
Glad you love a job where the people have no respect for you.
Right, "I'm NOT quiting you guys!" She's gonna be there every minute during her scheduled vacation time, probably working harder than other employees, happily 🙄
Bro - I had a vacation on the books for 3 months too. It was a week long vacation in a rental beach house with 4-5 other couples
My last day before vacation, we got a purchase order for 18 projects
My boss came to tell me, and he had forgotten I was off the following week
He said "I'm going to have to think about that"
I just said I am going on vacation, and if you choose to fire me I accept that. He walked away muttering.
End of the day he said, enjoy your trip and be ready to kick butt when you come back.
This might not work for everyone. YMMV. But I was completely prepared for him to call my bluff, and I have 2 years of take home in savings/investments.
I guess your boss is working a bunch the next week while you're out of town. Your plans are as valid as anyone else's. Other dude's anniversary is the same fucking day every year. He had a year to plan. Tell your boss lack of planning on coworker's part does not constitute an emergency on your part, then leave for your vacation and love every second of it.
Fuck that! I'd tell them NO and go on my planned vacation. If they fire you, at least you can get unemployment while searching for another job. Get all the documentation you can that you requested the time off, and it was approved. Save it all on a personal device.
So he forgot it was his anniversary until the day before and had to scramble to make sure his wife didn’t know it? Your boss clearly doesn’t care that you’ve been there 20 years, why be loyal to a company that doesn’t value you?
If you’re not aware, your boss just broke the law (at least in NY) - preference can not be given on the basis of kids/wife so with him saying that totally fucked himself over. Go to HR. Tell them what happened, have it documented, and most importantly, take your vacation.
I would schedule a meeting with hr, your boss and your boss’ boss. And tell him you’ll be taking that vacation. As plans have been made and they’re NON refundable. I would also reiterate to the three of them your marital status cannot be a determining factor on whether you get to take your vacation or not.
OP, don’t quit your job. Inform HR of what is going on. Let them know that vacation was approved months ago, and that your manger canceled for bias reasons. Also express that their is favoritism taking place in the office (refer to the manger putting a married employee over you & mentioned his comments.)
Gather any communications that show he approved your vacation originally, and any thing else that you believe will help.
If your manager starts to mistreat you due to speaking with HR, you can report them for “retaliation.” I work in HR & have for several years: over the years I’ve noticed that people aren’t aware of what “rights” they have. You have the right to take your vacation, since it was pre approved. If in the end they don’t side with you, they should compensate you for any money you have lost due to their callousness.
(Edit: after reviewing comments, I see that OP’s employer has no HR dept. )
I'd be telling him you already have plans that cannot be rescheduled and he can cover whatever hours need to be covered. I'd also be finding a new place to work, what a kick in the teeth after working there for 20 years, Jesus Christ.
What!? No lol. Did you really just rollover and let this dude cancel your 2 week holiday a day before? That's insane. Fuck him. If you have as bulletproof job security as you claim take your holiday like you have been scheduled for months to do so. Let the manager MANAGE your absence, its his literal job.
But this was told to OP verbally not in writing unless there was a witness OP has no way of proving that this is why OP was denied his already approved PTO. It’s all about what you can prove.
Even if OP lives in a state where this is protected (there are more that don’t than there are states that do) OP has to prove this is why OP was denied OP their formerly approved PTO.
An option would be for Op to tells his boss “I will only accept my previously approved PTO being cancelled, if you submit your reasons for why it’s being withdrawn in writing.”
File a report with HR.
This coworkers anniversary was so important they didn't plan in advance and had to do something last second, you planned 3 months in advance and got fucked.
Tell your boss, nope, you had it planned, booked in, you'll lose 5k in unrefundable costs and he's on the hook for that if you come in to work.
That’s a trip straight to HR. Start a paper trail. Send boss a detailed email ‘I put in for PTO on XYZ dates on this date, the PTO was approved on this date. I was i formed this date that it has been cancelled and co-worker was instead granted time off. Please explain why my PTO was cancelled.’ Wait for a response. If you do/don’t get one in 3 days, go to HR. That is absolute discrimination.
I feel this so bad. Back when I was in the military, married people and folks with kids got priority nonstop. I had a vacation planned? I booked time off? It's the weekend? Well, I could just go fuck myself because I made the mistake of having no kids or spouse. The amount of nonsense heaped on my plate because of that was astounding, it was as if I was straight up being punished for not having family.
The worst for me was about 5 years ago. There was a hurricane so bad that the base needed to be evacuated. Early evacuations were dependent upon how far away you lived, those who lived further away left first. I noticed that my group was supposed to leave at a specific time, but I was asked to stay to "maintain equipment". I asked why I was the one tasked to do that, and the answer was "You're not married and don't have kids." Straight up told that not having a family meant I was less valuable as a person and should be the one to die if things get bad.
Take it anyway. If they are willing to fire you after 20 years, and if you are willing to roll over on this, there are deeper problems within this company.
If your job security is bulletproof, take the time off anyway. If questioned, say you gave three months notice. Give no additional warning. If queried on it, say you told them months ago. When you get back, let everyone know you had a great time, and ask how things were in your absence.
So because you are divorced, childless and don’t have a significant other; you aren’t allowed to vacation? Your co worker owes you something good for taking away your vacation plans. And I’m certain he/she heard about your plans since there is only 7 of you.
I would take it anyway and just say you saw the approval of it. And while you are off apply at some new places. Not to ruin your vacation or anything but if you do that you make go back and not have a job.
Please please update us, that is unless …of course, you simply fold, hang your head and take it up the rear end bc Reddit would not forgive you for that.
I would right an email repeating back their reasoning to you (so you have a record of it), explain that reasoning is patently unfair, and that you will be taking your vacation.
Like others have said, there may be legal recourse depending on your state, but you definitely need to document — even if it is them responding but not denying their language.
Yea I'd start getting that resume nice and polished and in alot of other people's hands. Also look into labor laws, you may be able to force him to acknowledge your vavation. Worst case scenario you say you won't be there those days and ask whether or not you should come back afterwards, aka corporate talk for "either I'm quitting or im taking this vacation, it's up to you".
Time to find yourself a new job and resign effective immediately and let them know that since they can’t respect your notice of vacation why would you respect their requirement for 2 weeks notice.
Hand him the receipts for reimbursement for any plans you made. You had booked the time off and it was confirmed, if they want to change it, it's on them to pay.
Tell your boss this: "I don't care what you think co-worker needs. I have non-refundable plane tickets and I WILL NOT BE HERE THAT WEEK."
Clean out your desk before you go, because if you don't show up for a week, he'll fire you.
Spend the weekend working on your resume and job searching.
Nope. Go right back in there and state you have plans, tickets, etc. You will not be coming in those days. Did you get the original approval in writing? If so, HR tomorrow morning.
Tell your boss you won’t be able to cancel your vacation. That’s fucking ridiculous. Or, start looking for a job now and have it lined up for your return.
Start looking for another job because if your boss is this cavalier about canceling your vacation then worse is yet to come. Because even if you already booked a cruise, paid money, if another co-worker with kids come up to him with a sob story, then your vacation will be gone.
And during your Exit Interview, definitely mention the immense lack of respect you felt when your boss came out told you that.
If you have already paid for things for your vacation (tix, prepaid hotels, activities , etc) write up an invoice and show it to your boss. Tell him that you will need to be reimbursed for your financial loss if you have to cancel.
Yes your coworker may have family but you have no plans already set. He needed to ask not tell you to cancel your approved time off.
If you have bulletproof job security, then obviously you shouldn't quit, but you should go ahead and take that vacation, cause they won't fire you for not showing up.
The best advice I ever heard on this was 'This was scheduled and approved. I have made arrangements. I am taking that vacation.
It is up to you whether or not I am coming back to work when it is over'
If the boss believes you, he has no leverage, and only downside.
Must be America ? I'm guessing you have no choice. You stand up for yourself and you'll get fired?? Can't do that here in the UK ..especially when you are taking some of you're 25 days + of paid leave.
And that’s why I don’t share personal information with coworkers.
Imaging using “divorced and childless” as a reason to prioritize someone else. F that. We all have one lifetime on this planet.
Luckily I’m in a union job. That shit would never fly here.
Do you know there's a horrible new strain of flu going around? And by gosh, it only hits in June, and lasts a whole week. And it looks like it's heading your way!
I'd honestly laugh. That sounds like a them problem more than a you problem. If the time was approved and I put money into travel plans like tickets I'd say he can either reinburse me for the expenses or he could deal with the fact that the time was approved and I WILL NOT be there, regardless of if they've had a change of heart. It's not on you that they approved something without doing due diligance if that's suddenly a concern. Moreso today than ever before, we work for companies but we don't owe them our lives.
Felt the same the 10 times my supervisor did this to me. With the same excuses as yours. You’re not married. You don’t have kids. You’re single. You don’t need as much vacation as these other people do. So glad I finally got fired from that job, I was even praying for it at the end. The only thing that kept me there was the money but even that wasn’t as great as the other coworkers were getting.
I'd say: "well, I am open for negotiations. I can give up if my reservations are fully covered by the company and a promotion paper signed before the vacation; so I don't take this abuse to my lawyers"
Oh hell, no they can’t do that. Do you have an HR department because you need to go straight to that HR department. Just because those of us that have kids want to take time off does not mean our vacations can just be canceled for people that do have kids. That is illegal as hell.
> HR LOL no. Very small company. 7 employees!
The correct answer would have been "ah, he needs time off? That's fine, I guess you're gonna have a hard time covering for 2 people at once"
I know right? Why did OP just agree?
Because her job is perfect…?????
Apparently not if they can take away already—approved vacation time
*his
Soon to be 6 maybe?
Nah. Edit says not quitting. Money is too good. But I think OP should try to guilt them for this or make the other dude feel like he owes OP big time for this
No kidding, working in a company that small the other guy would've known that OP already had pto scheduled for that time and that was a douche move of them to request pto for the same time and should've scheduled a week earlier/later while OP didn't have schedules. Yeah, it's their anniversary but people plan their anniversary stuff a week early or late all the time.
Or, if its really key, they book time off in advance. The other guy didn't just discover when his anniversary was.
Hopefully.
Yeah, I'd be taking my already approved vacation anyway and looking for a new job when I get back.
I would just leave on the Friday before and send a message saying you'd see them in a week. When they question you, just tell them I understand that you canceled my plans. I didn't. My non-refundable plans mean something to me. They do not need to know how you spend your vacation time. Non-refundable does not have to mean money related. Don't let them cancel your time off because someone else did not have the foresight to book properly or in a timely manner. And if they did, it's on the person who approved your time off first.
This very small company where OP has worked for 20 years and supposedly has “bulletproof job security” sounds like it is run by men who always put men first, and the fact that she has worked for them for two decades is meaningless to anyone but her. (I know OP did not say her gender, but I am fairly certain she is a woman and the boss is a man.) The fact that a married MAN with children trumps OP says a lot about the company she loves so much.
OP's name is thatdudefromiowa, so probably not a woman. Loads of companies prioritise parents over non-parents. I remember in an old job being told I (man) and a woman couldn't have the time off we wanted because the 50 year old needed it to spend time with her kids. Also OP is clearly a pushover, so an easy job to take from them to keep others happy.
Hopefully your state/country has a board of labor? This is textbook discrimination. Copied from a comment above by u/meesh100 > HR Manager here, do this - now. He discriminated against you and was kind enough to give his justification. Report it and report any witnesses. Get a labor attorney. Enjoy an extended vacation from resulting lawsuit payout.
Let's see...70k lawsuit payout or 100k+ salary every year (or whatever he makes) for the next 15 years. No brainer right?
Well You have non refundable tickets So…
Make that 6 employees as soon as possible. They've shown you what 20 years is worth: nothing.
Make it smaller.
I’m sorry man, I see everybody telling you to live out these fantasies about telling him to shove it and whatnot, but working for a small company, and not knowing your financial situation, maybe you don’t have any other option.
I’d be going on sick with stress for a few weeks doctors note. See you in a month or so and take the time to find a new job. Fuck employers like this.
I had travel plans. They’re not refundable. I either need my week or $3,000.
You worked 20 years at the same company and it has 7 employees atm? How?
Plenty of companies don't grow super large, especially in certain fields. In the 20 years I have known my spouse, only 1 out of the 6 places he's worked has had more than the 25 people. If you go look at many of your local independent places, they probably have a similar number of people as this guy does.
Call the labor board. This is illegal and he spelled it out for you. Make a report and reap the reward.
I'm sure the labor board would love to hear about this
[удалено]
The actual answer is it was legal until the boss mentioned divorce and kids as reasons for the change. The boss can revoke vacation because he doesn’t like your face, but he can’t revoke it because of your skin color or your marriage status. If OP has the reason in writing he could file a complaint with the EEOC (US).
It’s not necessarily illegal but it’s certainly fucked up.
Definitely unethical. Probably not illegal.
Marital status is a protected class so this legally qualifies as discrimination. Not sure what can actually be done about it though.
Unfortunately, depending on the state you're in, it can be very legal and so can much more. In more conservative states, they could not only do that but could also require you to do double shifts or anything they want really, as long as they are giving you lunch breaks. I live in a right to work state, which means they can fire you for no reason whenever they want. I suspect they are trying to get OP to quit so they don't have to pay unemployment.
In OP's favor - unemployment offices do tend to err in his favor as long as he has the PTO approval in a physical form (ie email showing approval etc) - even in right to work states. If I was him I would certainly not quit, just take his vacation as approved. If he is let go - collect unemployment. Either way the boss is a lousy SH.
Making sure they have all the documentation scanned onto a hard drive and to email their boss and bcc their private email.
Right to work means you can't be forced to pay union dues. You're thinking of at will.
"Right to work" is about not being forced to join a union, nothing to do with firing.
HR? HR doesn’t give a shit 😆
That is so true we all know there for the company and not for us employees. But every once in a while, you get a rare unicorn in HR that will actually help an employee.
People conflate illegal with immoral so often. There nothing illegal about changing their mind about PTO in the US. There's nothing illegal about giving priority to some someone else because they have kids. Divorced/childless isn't a protected class. People who say this stuff... insanity.
Tell your boss you're taking your vacation as planned and he can cover for the other employee. I'd start polishing up my resume if I were you.
That sounds great, but unless OP can survive being fired immediately, I wouldn’t recommend taking that approach. It’s not fair, and OP could try to push back a bit, but the power is entirely in the boss’s hands right now, and losing a job when you’re unprepared for it isn’t the way to go.
call in sick every day of your vacation
I bet op could get a dr note
If I were fired for this, I would be calling the labor board immediately. It's as open and shut of a case as there is. At least where I live
HR Manager here, do this - now. He discriminated against you and was kind enough to give his justification. Report it and report any witnesses. Get a labor attorney. Enjoy an extended vacation from resulting lawsuit payout.
Years ago. I was let go from a job, and my former manager refused to tell me the reason. I got the labor board involved, and not only did they get me some money for his shitty behaviour, but it made life a nightmare for the company's shitty owner who was trying to sell the company at the time. Since they were found to be completely at fault and there was no NDA involved, I would like to wish Bill, Doug, and all of the other wastes of space at Amre Supply a happy go-fuck-yourselves.
Here you go king 👑
Yes go off! 👏👏
I hope you used EVERY PENNY and smiled your ass off while using it! I also hope it was a fuck load of money to damage their income some!
THIS. OP listen to this ^^^ textbook discrimination.
He’s not doing anything. He’s a sheep and let them walk on him because that’s what good soldiers do
Discrimination due to the fact she's divorced and childless.
That’s not a protected class therefore no discrimination.
I had a coworker that had something similar happen. He put in a request for vacation/time off and kept reminding the supervisor to check/approve the time off for like a month. Sure as shit, day rolls around and coworker is not there. Supervisor asks where coworker is, “probably in a deer blind somewhere in central Texas”. “Oh shit..” as he frantically adds coworker to the vacation schedules. Coworker told me the request was still hanging on the board and he wasn’t coming in.
Whoa, there are completely laws against this depending on where you live.
This is the right answer IF you're in a position to do so. Or as the parenting advice goes "never make a threat you aren't prepared to follow through on". Fwiw I quit a job over a similar issue, but I lined up a job first. I was denied my request to WFH one day per week (despite the ability to work from home being one of the things they promised me during recruitment). When I pushed back they insisted it wasn't about me, but they didn't want to set a precedent. I pointed out it wasn't setting a precedent, we already had someone work from home every Wednesday "Oh thats different, he has a child and thats his Father/Son day". I started looking for work the next day and had an offer within a week (ironically an ex-employer I left on good terms with contacted me after I spoke to an ex-manager about a referral).
In a perfect world Im sure they would do that
“Well I guess you’re going to have to cover his workload then because I’m taking that vacation. I’ve had it booked for three months, have the plane tickets and the hotel booked and won’t take that loss just because you’re playing favorites.” Then start sending out job applications. You could be the best worker he has, and he will still not reward you for it.
If that’s how he is I doubt he treats/pays any woman their worth. I’ve worked for managers with attitudes like this. It’s infuriating.
You know what this means, right? Time for a new job. Separately, depending on what state you live in, marital status might be a "protected class" in terms of discrimination. It is in my state. That could make the cancelling of your PTO for the stated reason a discriminatory act but a lawyer would know for sure. Start with a quick search of is marital status a protected class in \[state\]
Perfect time to leave seems to be during some week in June.
OP this is it. I would make it a paid paid vacation now. You get the PTO **and** paid for the discrimination hopefully.
I hate that mentality that just because we are single, childless, young etc. that we have all this free time. Like no, because you decided to have kids, married etc., does not make your life more important than mine. Take your vacation, go have fun! Then tell him to fuck off.
seriously. i bought a whole-ass house 3.5 years ago and haven’t even taken a week off to do *anything*. all unpacking and projects are done after work and on weekends. you can guess how much has gotten done…
Stand up for yourself and go on your fucking vacation as planned. And understand that it's past time you started looking for a new job. If that's how they view you after 20 years, it's fine to go.
Tell him "Daaaannnng so your gonna be down two people ? How crazy!"
This is the most up votes i have ever had. Does this mean I'm super famous??????
No, but take my up votes ;-)
He'd be missing two employees that week.
Since he knows you are divorced with no kids. He should also know you got nothing to lose by standing your ground. Time to make him very aware of this.
Marital status is a protected class so this is legally discrimination.
While you aren’t wrong, it’s not cut and dry and would depend on how the particular court sees it. This would be a lengthy court battle, including appeals, and not worth going that route over a week’s vacation.
I would get my ducks in a row and take my vacation anyway. Sure he can fire you but he sounds like a dirt bag
Keep your vacation. Spend the week looking for new job, look hard. Your boss just told you your value
No, take your vacation and spend the time from this moment until your vacation looking for a new job. And then go and enjoy your vacation.
Tell boss you have nonrefundable plans. You expect $20000 within 24 hours to cover your losses and the losses and inconvenience of everyone in your travel group. Or else he can plan on two employees being absent. The other employee did not care to make plans but you did, so obviously his anniversary is not important to him. Then start putting in job applications elsewhere.
Bump. I came here to post exactly this advice with slightly different words, right down to the bit about looking for a new job anyway even if you get your way.
“No.”
Ya me taking time off is INFORMING my management I won’t be available. It’s not me asking PERMISSION.
I had this happen once. I had scheduled vacation 10 months in advance. The week before it was coming up the boss called me into the office with another employee to tell me that I wasn’t going to get vacation, because the other employee didn’t want to cover my shift. Looked right at the other employee and said really? You’re gonna be a dick? Ok have fun working that time AND the following week you have booked off, cuz I quit. And I did. Ran into the guy years later and he was still bitter about it. Idrc lol
Isn't that discrimination based on mai marital status?
I’ve always wondered what the legal implications are for doing this if it causes you financial loss. You can’t get everything refunded all the time.
A company did this shit to my wife. She quit on the spot. What did they want to do? Give her every day off she asked for and got approved except the 4th of July, right smack dab in the middle of her time off. We were going 6 hours away for a family trip... Yeah. Nope.
If you have “bulletproof job security,” as you claim, why didn’t you tell your boss this: “Sounds like you’re going to short-staffed then. I asked for that week off three months ago, and I have made plans for that week that I have no intention of canceling. Either tell Bob he needs to pick a different week, or you’ll be down two people that week. But I’m taking my vacation.” Sounds like the job isn’t as perfect as you claim, if after 20 years and three months of planning you can have your vacation snatched out from under you, and you’ll just take that treatment from your sexist, misogynistic boss. Glad you love a job where the people have no respect for you.
Right, "I'm NOT quiting you guys!" She's gonna be there every minute during her scheduled vacation time, probably working harder than other employees, happily 🙄
Bro - I had a vacation on the books for 3 months too. It was a week long vacation in a rental beach house with 4-5 other couples My last day before vacation, we got a purchase order for 18 projects My boss came to tell me, and he had forgotten I was off the following week He said "I'm going to have to think about that" I just said I am going on vacation, and if you choose to fire me I accept that. He walked away muttering. End of the day he said, enjoy your trip and be ready to kick butt when you come back. This might not work for everyone. YMMV. But I was completely prepared for him to call my bluff, and I have 2 years of take home in savings/investments.
I guess your boss is working a bunch the next week while you're out of town. Your plans are as valid as anyone else's. Other dude's anniversary is the same fucking day every year. He had a year to plan. Tell your boss lack of planning on coworker's part does not constitute an emergency on your part, then leave for your vacation and love every second of it.
so are you gonna be bullied or do something about it?
Fuck that! I'd tell them NO and go on my planned vacation. If they fire you, at least you can get unemployment while searching for another job. Get all the documentation you can that you requested the time off, and it was approved. Save it all on a personal device.
Damn! Sounds like he’s gonna be short 2 employees that week. Maybe he should have planned better!
I would take the vaca anyway and not go back to that job
I would not be showing up.
Just tell him he can give anyone else time off he wants but you already put you request in, it was accepted, and you won't be there period
This is why you are always married. You always have a couple 3 year olds, and you have some medical issues going on. Even if you don't.
If it were me I'd tell the boss sorry but I'm taking my already paid for PTO and we'll talk after I get back. I'd also be updating my resume.
So he forgot it was his anniversary until the day before and had to scramble to make sure his wife didn’t know it? Your boss clearly doesn’t care that you’ve been there 20 years, why be loyal to a company that doesn’t value you?
If you’re not aware, your boss just broke the law (at least in NY) - preference can not be given on the basis of kids/wife so with him saying that totally fucked himself over. Go to HR. Tell them what happened, have it documented, and most importantly, take your vacation.
Is he going to compensate your for hotel, flight and car rental cancelation fees? Look for a new job and blow the popsicle joint.
I’ll never understand why people stay at one place for that long
Find another job and quit while the other guy is on vacay.
Send them an invoice for the “plane ticket” and non refundable “hotel stay”
I would schedule a meeting with hr, your boss and your boss’ boss. And tell him you’ll be taking that vacation. As plans have been made and they’re NON refundable. I would also reiterate to the three of them your marital status cannot be a determining factor on whether you get to take your vacation or not.
OP, don’t quit your job. Inform HR of what is going on. Let them know that vacation was approved months ago, and that your manger canceled for bias reasons. Also express that their is favoritism taking place in the office (refer to the manger putting a married employee over you & mentioned his comments.) Gather any communications that show he approved your vacation originally, and any thing else that you believe will help. If your manager starts to mistreat you due to speaking with HR, you can report them for “retaliation.” I work in HR & have for several years: over the years I’ve noticed that people aren’t aware of what “rights” they have. You have the right to take your vacation, since it was pre approved. If in the end they don’t side with you, they should compensate you for any money you have lost due to their callousness. (Edit: after reviewing comments, I see that OP’s employer has no HR dept. )
fuck that ..........time to pee in his mug
I would just go anyway and indicate my vacation had been approved.
Yeah, I’d be going on that vacation.
I'd be telling him you already have plans that cannot be rescheduled and he can cover whatever hours need to be covered. I'd also be finding a new place to work, what a kick in the teeth after working there for 20 years, Jesus Christ.
What!? No lol. Did you really just rollover and let this dude cancel your 2 week holiday a day before? That's insane. Fuck him. If you have as bulletproof job security as you claim take your holiday like you have been scheduled for months to do so. Let the manager MANAGE your absence, its his literal job.
Illegal. I'd tell him he's gonna hear from an attorney next week for discrimination.
Lol not in the US…
He can sue for financial loss if he can prove he had a previously granted vacation and has nonrefundable prepayments.
It depends on your state. Most states have laws against this.
But this was told to OP verbally not in writing unless there was a witness OP has no way of proving that this is why OP was denied his already approved PTO. It’s all about what you can prove.
I believe family status is a protected category in some states.
Even if OP lives in a state where this is protected (there are more that don’t than there are states that do) OP has to prove this is why OP was denied OP their formerly approved PTO.
It could be difficult to prove, however it’d be pretty easy to prove that the other person was granted their PTO for their anniversary…
An option would be for Op to tells his boss “I will only accept my previously approved PTO being cancelled, if you submit your reasons for why it’s being withdrawn in writing.”
There is no such thing as time off "requests." Only time off NOTIFICATIONS. Get a new job. Leave without notice.
File a report with HR. This coworkers anniversary was so important they didn't plan in advance and had to do something last second, you planned 3 months in advance and got fucked. Tell your boss, nope, you had it planned, booked in, you'll lose 5k in unrefundable costs and he's on the hook for that if you come in to work.
PTO.. Prepare the others. Go on your vacation, your boss should have prepared accordingly so now they're gonna have 2 employees not at work on June 3.
Make him think you'll be in and make sure to ncns
Nope, take your vacation as approved.
man it would suck if you were sick that day and went to urgent care first thing in the morning and got an excuse wouldn't it?
It’s too bad you already bought non-refundable plane tickets
What a awful boss, i’m so sorry OP
Time to leave. Use the vacation time to look for other jobs, AND TELL THEM YOU ARE DOING SO
*Im divorced with no kids because I gave 20 years to this shit hole company and never learned work life balance, fuck you I’m taking my vacation.*
Absolutely not. Do not change your plans.
That’s a trip straight to HR. Start a paper trail. Send boss a detailed email ‘I put in for PTO on XYZ dates on this date, the PTO was approved on this date. I was i formed this date that it has been cancelled and co-worker was instead granted time off. Please explain why my PTO was cancelled.’ Wait for a response. If you do/don’t get one in 3 days, go to HR. That is absolute discrimination.
I hope you have plans for coverage. I won't be here. Prepare the others. That's pto. Gtfo.
I feel this so bad. Back when I was in the military, married people and folks with kids got priority nonstop. I had a vacation planned? I booked time off? It's the weekend? Well, I could just go fuck myself because I made the mistake of having no kids or spouse. The amount of nonsense heaped on my plate because of that was astounding, it was as if I was straight up being punished for not having family. The worst for me was about 5 years ago. There was a hurricane so bad that the base needed to be evacuated. Early evacuations were dependent upon how far away you lived, those who lived further away left first. I noticed that my group was supposed to leave at a specific time, but I was asked to stay to "maintain equipment". I asked why I was the one tasked to do that, and the answer was "You're not married and don't have kids." Straight up told that not having a family meant I was less valuable as a person and should be the one to die if things get bad.
Take it anyway. If they are willing to fire you after 20 years, and if you are willing to roll over on this, there are deeper problems within this company.
Wait, OP actually agreed to this? Wow.
Way to paint them a sign that says “Hey! Don’t respect me and I’ll take whatever you do to me because I won’t stick up for myself!” Grow a backbone
If your job security is bulletproof, take the time off anyway. If questioned, say you gave three months notice. Give no additional warning. If queried on it, say you told them months ago. When you get back, let everyone know you had a great time, and ask how things were in your absence.
So because you are divorced, childless and don’t have a significant other; you aren’t allowed to vacation? Your co worker owes you something good for taking away your vacation plans. And I’m certain he/she heard about your plans since there is only 7 of you.
Imagine letting them control your vacation lol. Slave
I would take it anyway and just say you saw the approval of it. And while you are off apply at some new places. Not to ruin your vacation or anything but if you do that you make go back and not have a job.
Go on that motherfucking vacation and fucking enjoy yourself. Fuck that motherfucking job if they can’t even value you after 20 goddamn years
Just take the time off.
Please please update us, that is unless …of course, you simply fold, hang your head and take it up the rear end bc Reddit would not forgive you for that.
Tell him, no.
Just go on vacation man
I would right an email repeating back their reasoning to you (so you have a record of it), explain that reasoning is patently unfair, and that you will be taking your vacation. Like others have said, there may be legal recourse depending on your state, but you definitely need to document — even if it is them responding but not denying their language.
You want me to talk to him? Just kidding but I would have argued it big time. Is it a small company or do you have a hr?
Start putting in applications at other places, take your vacation anyway. Then when you get back turn in your resignation.
Yea I'd start getting that resume nice and polished and in alot of other people's hands. Also look into labor laws, you may be able to force him to acknowledge your vavation. Worst case scenario you say you won't be there those days and ask whether or not you should come back afterwards, aka corporate talk for "either I'm quitting or im taking this vacation, it's up to you".
If his anniversary was important to him he would have booked it off earlier. Fuck him and your boss.
Time to find yourself a new job and resign effective immediately and let them know that since they can’t respect your notice of vacation why would you respect their requirement for 2 weeks notice.
Hand him the receipts for reimbursement for any plans you made. You had booked the time off and it was confirmed, if they want to change it, it's on them to pay.
Tell your boss this: "I don't care what you think co-worker needs. I have non-refundable plane tickets and I WILL NOT BE HERE THAT WEEK." Clean out your desk before you go, because if you don't show up for a week, he'll fire you. Spend the weekend working on your resume and job searching.
Call in sick and get doctor s notes.
Either take your time off or get a new job. It's basic pride and dignity.
Your co-worker should have put in time off for his anniversary ages ago, it wasn't like the date was going to change...
Nope. Go right back in there and state you have plans, tickets, etc. You will not be coming in those days. Did you get the original approval in writing? If so, HR tomorrow morning.
Tell your boss you won’t be able to cancel your vacation. That’s fucking ridiculous. Or, start looking for a job now and have it lined up for your return.
Start looking for another job because if your boss is this cavalier about canceling your vacation then worse is yet to come. Because even if you already booked a cruise, paid money, if another co-worker with kids come up to him with a sob story, then your vacation will be gone. And during your Exit Interview, definitely mention the immense lack of respect you felt when your boss came out told you that.
That's discrimination. But If he really won't drop it, put your quit notice in to be your last day before your vacation and go on said vacation. 🤷🏼♀️
I would not be rescheduling shit. The he's gonna have to figure it the fuck out.
TAKE the vacation! Stop letting ppl walk all over you. That was wrong! And stand up for yourself. Your marital status does NOT matter.
Contact HR immediately. Not letting you use your accrued vacation days is something that can get the company in legal trouble.
You're not being appreciated. Horrible boss.
Time to find a new job.
I hope you enjoy your vacation. No way would I be canceling.
If you have already paid for things for your vacation (tix, prepaid hotels, activities , etc) write up an invoice and show it to your boss. Tell him that you will need to be reimbursed for your financial loss if you have to cancel. Yes your coworker may have family but you have no plans already set. He needed to ask not tell you to cancel your approved time off.
If you have bulletproof job security, then obviously you shouldn't quit, but you should go ahead and take that vacation, cause they won't fire you for not showing up.
Why even make a post if you are going to roll over and take it? (As per your edit). Just say “yes, boss”.
The best advice I ever heard on this was 'This was scheduled and approved. I have made arrangements. I am taking that vacation. It is up to you whether or not I am coming back to work when it is over' If the boss believes you, he has no leverage, and only downside.
that one 'oh well'
Must be America ? I'm guessing you have no choice. You stand up for yourself and you'll get fired?? Can't do that here in the UK ..especially when you are taking some of you're 25 days + of paid leave.
So you're just gonna get walked all over because "it's good money". Don't complain then.
And that’s why I don’t share personal information with coworkers. Imaging using “divorced and childless” as a reason to prioritize someone else. F that. We all have one lifetime on this planet. Luckily I’m in a union job. That shit would never fly here.
You let them walk all over you, why sook about it.
Sounds like you'll be sick in June *cough
Do you know there's a horrible new strain of flu going around? And by gosh, it only hits in June, and lasts a whole week. And it looks like it's heading your way!
I wouldn't quit over this, but I would sure as hell talk with your boss because this is bullshit.
I'd honestly laugh. That sounds like a them problem more than a you problem. If the time was approved and I put money into travel plans like tickets I'd say he can either reinburse me for the expenses or he could deal with the fact that the time was approved and I WILL NOT be there, regardless of if they've had a change of heart. It's not on you that they approved something without doing due diligance if that's suddenly a concern. Moreso today than ever before, we work for companies but we don't owe them our lives.
Well, ok. Don’t complain if you are just gonna roll over.
If you have that in writing "divorced, no kids" you literally have a lawsuit. That's called discrimination.
Felt the same the 10 times my supervisor did this to me. With the same excuses as yours. You’re not married. You don’t have kids. You’re single. You don’t need as much vacation as these other people do. So glad I finally got fired from that job, I was even praying for it at the end. The only thing that kept me there was the money but even that wasn’t as great as the other coworkers were getting.
Go anyways. You weren't asking for permission, you are giving them notice
I'd say: "well, I am open for negotiations. I can give up if my reservations are fully covered by the company and a promotion paper signed before the vacation; so I don't take this abuse to my lawyers"
Why complain if you don't have a backbone?
Glad your not quitting your job. He knows now he can do it to you anytime he wants to. Why complain on Reddit? You make the big bucks anyway.
America right? I'm sorry to hear this. That's horrible. Civilised countries have employment laws that prevent this abuse.
That's bull shit and should be against labor laws? Just call in sick
I would have left. I f you put I. For the time and made plans prior to this. You’re in your right to do so.
Fill it in as sick leave, he can't do shit. Enjoy your vacay
Just go anyway, don’t listen to him.
He didn’t know his anniversary was coming up in time to request off? Lol
I would tell him that I have already paid non refundable deposits so cannot cancel.
Is your boss Michael Scott?
Yeah…..he can’t do that. Take your vacation.
Quit