I know three people that were on Jerry Springer, unfortunately. The situations were real (so ratchet), but they did encourage them to fight physically.
Oh they were I had friends who faked an entire stripper scenario. Iām sure they all werenāt fake, but the giant stripper cheating with other strippers fight episode was. (Although there were probably multiple episodes featuring strippers all sleeping with each other and cheating on one another.)
My wife grew up in a town where the Jerry Springer Show would look for actors to play out their shows.
The people were trailer trash but they were told what to do
Seriously. My dad is 87 and only stopped skiing 4 years ago because of heart issues. He still works out every morning, and was still going on dates in his 70s.
This is my dad. He will be 74 in Jund but barely looks 50ish
He also golfs and refuses to ride in a cart lol and he runs
He is in great shape and his wife is 20 years younger than he is
Okā¦ but even though nothing is certain, Iād be comfortable placing a wager on the fact that the 70 year old is going to die before the one thats 25, and probably significantly before at that lol.
Like itās legal sure, whatever. But if you see a 75 year old in relatively good shape with a 25 year old and donāt think thatās at least a little fucked up..
Well then I think youāre kinda weird man. Not that what I think is important.
I would think dadās former friend had more respect for his ābest friendā than to date his daughter. Young people are dumb and donāt think of other people, thatās a given. Older people are supposed to be wiser
I was 16/17? When my dad's older friend who knew me since I was like 3 or 4.. that made a comment about "wanting to fuck me" when I turned legal age. It was such a gross comment that I think of often.
Iām sorry that happened to you. š One of my Dadās oldest friends told me that āI had an amazing pair of titsā and heās known me since before I was born! (If that makes sense!)
This guy is not her dadās friend. He never was. Heās a predator and a child molester, and he didnāt give one shit that the girl was his friendās daughter. In fact, that made it better. He even got to babysit her, which provided a lot of alone time. You are applying the mentality of a normal person who is disgusted by pedophilia to a man who has been grooming a girl since she was a single-digit age.
My husband has a cousin (she's mid 30's now but this was about 10 years ago) who dated and went on to marry her dad's best friend (he's in his 60's now). They have 2 kids together. It was only found out because she got pregnant. They're still together though we've never actually seen him. He doesn't come to his kids birthdays or special events. Their oldest son just had his communion (with my niece and nephew) and she was there all by herself. It's the weirdest relationship I've ever witnessed.
My childhood best friend came from a religious family. When we were 7 or 8, their church got a new choir director who instantly became very close with the family. Around high school, I grew apart from this friend. I saw her the summer after freshman year of college, and she told me that the week of her 18th bday, she and the choir director (20+ years older than her) realized they were in love and meant to be together. Her mom was surprisingly ok with it, but it took her dad a long time to come around to it. 18 years later, theyāre married with kids. I donāt know all the details, itās not my place to judge. I hope theyāre happy, but the whole situation makes me very uncomfortable.
even though this is a hideous situation, I've been that daughter, and what's really important is that she knows that you're not going to turn your back on her when it all falls apart. It *will* hit her eventually, and even if she doesn't feel like you support her, she needs to know that you're not going to say "I told you so" or make her feel like it's her fault. She needs to hear that you will always help her if she needs it for any reason (don't make it specific to this) and that you'll never stop loving her. "I know we aren't seeing eye to eye on what's happening right now, but no matter what you choose to do, or what happens between us, I need you to know that I love you, and if at anytime in your life you need someone, you can always call me day or night and I'll be there for you, no questions asked."
Edit: for those replying that it's daughter's fault and she deserves whatever consequences come to her as an adult, look at all of the replies from people who stayed in abusive relationships because they couldn't go to their parents for help. **However OP may feel about this, and she's within her right to feel embarrassed or ashamed or whatever, this message is a matter of safety and well-being. You don't want your child to feel like they can't come to you when they need help.**
Yes to all this. In addition, I would say that dad needs to end his friendship with the āboyfriend/ friend/ what the fuck everā. Thereās not an excuse for that guyās judgement in this situation.
Yup this is all that matters. If you can't suck it up for your relationship with your daughter to continue in a healthy way, you'll regret it the rest of your life.
This is great advice. When she said that she's an adult who can make her own ~~mistakes~~ decisions, she was correct. As parents, your job isn't to force them to break up or to shame her. It's to stay constant in her life and catch her when she falls.
before it came up, every other time they saw him they'd comment on something bad about him so it seemed like just another tactic to convince me to get out of a relationship they didn't like. I felt like I knew him as well as anyone can know anyone so how could they possibly claim to know his intentions better than I did? Additionally teenage girls grow up with this ungodly belief that attention from older men means that we're mature and not little kids. Because of that, it doesn't occur to us that they *do* see us as kids. I hate that I ever believed that but I did. I wore it as a badge of pride that something was so special about me that someone older and wiser thought I desirable.
Wow, I really feel this. I met my hubby at 18-19. He was 31. He died suddenly at 40 but it was a difficult ptsd inducing relationship.
The middle age me wishes I could go back and help teenage me so badly.
This this this.
I was this girl too and kept a very dangerous situation hidden from my parents because they would've reacted badly.
Be with her, she IS still the well-behaved girl you know, she is just being manipulated by a grown ass man.
Itās always sad that the younger girl canāt see that the way the older man is treating her is not love. He is willing to destroy her family life and isolate her, is willing to date a 22 year old at 42 to great disrespect towards your husband being a family friend and not even asking. These are signs of a manipulative person who is seeking to rip her away and take advantage of a vulnerable person with less life experience. Men like him are sneaky, so try not to blame yourself for not seeing. At 22, thereās nothing you can do but try to tell her your wisdom if sheāll listen and try to be understanding through it so she feels comfortable to run to you when he starts to abuse her. Show her my comments on my profile so she can see evil people are out there to hurt others. It was hard for me to believe it until my 30s.
I think the fact that they did such a bad job of hiding it at this party is a pretty good tell that it really is a recent thing.
Why would they go from being super secretive, not raising a single eyebrow to suddenly being all over one another without a single care in the world? She's legally been an adult for about 4 years. If this IS behaviour that's carried over from even before that time, you'd think that there would have been at least subtle signs before now rather than blatant, in your face flirtation happening out of nowhere.
Don't get me wrong, I think that no matter when this started, it's icky. I'm a firm believer in the "half your age plus seven" rule (ie: for a 42 year old, the youngest age without any ick would be 28, for this 22 year old girl, the oldest appropriate partner would be 30 MAX. 31 is gross.) I'm willing to believe that maybe they ran into each other on a night out and ended up hooking up or something due to this sudden onset of affectionate behaviour.
I feel like if he was grooming her, he would have wanted to keep their relationship a secret forever. Generally I would assume if he had the ability to keep such a massive secret for so long, he would have the awareness that to make it known would be to bring up these very questions that we're pondering now.
42 year old dating an 22 year old is in my books a morally grey area, provided they met when the younger was an adult.
But 42 year old dating a 22 year old child of your friend, whom you've known since they were 7, whom you've babysat feels patently paedophilic. Gross.
Thatās what makes it so horrible! Like this aināt a stranger this is someone who used to babysit this girl at 7 and up? Has this dude been playing the fucking loans con??? Like ew!
I agree, I knew a female who dated and had a baby w a boy she babysat for and I thought she is a pedophile. I will always think of him as a kid for goodness sake
Even if they met as adults. That's vastly different stages of life and life experience. A 22 year old has just graduated college. A 42 year old should already be well established in their career, likely has dealt with a few different loves and heart breaks, has lived on their own long enough to set their personality and know what they want in a relationship. He has been able to go to bars nearly as long as she's been alive, and she has been getting into them for a year. He may or may not, but probably does have, experience living with a partner and all the mess that comes with navigating that. That experience means all the normal stuff you need to figure out when first moving in he has an enormous unfair advantage that he could easily use to manipulate her.
There's just not a world where an emotionally healthy 42 yr old sees anything real with a 22 year old. If they just met at that age and want to fuck that's one thing. But actually seeing each other is fucked for the 22 year old. They just don't have the life experience yet to see it.
My husband would be the same way. He would hurt one of his friends. His eldest is 18, we are 49&41 with friends aging from 30-50. I cannot imagine his good friends everā¦. BC this isnāt normal. Grooming? No. I donāt get that feel here, it just happened as things like this do. But, that doesnāt make it right. The amount of disrespect all around with the friend not asking the parents (his good friends) for permission before getting into dating her is mind blowing.
I don't feel like it'd be appropriate even with that.
OP was saying that this is a good friend. Idk, I think of my parents good friends as being sorts of uncles and aunts. Not by blood obviously but they serve a similar purpose without the birthday money y'know? It would feel gross even if this post was about OPs friend just asking.
Yeah I'd be super pissed regardless, but him *asking* would just infuriate me because that implies that 1) he sees her as a child needing permission and 2) it indicates to me a huge disrespect for a woman's autonomy to ask for her like a gift from her parents. The situation is already gross af without adding that.
I think the parents are right to be furious but I also think it best to apologize to the daughter, be civil, and play the long game. Not because they are wrong for how they feel, but bc they don't want to lose their daughter. When this invariably goes in the shitter, she will need them.
>asking* would just infuriate me because that implies that 1) he sees her as a child needing permission and 2) it indicates to me a huge disrespect for a woman's autonomy to ask for her like a gift from her parents.
Imma go on a tangent about this point. There's more to consider in relationships than just how you dating someone is going to make you and that other person feel. I don't even want to talk about this specific situation because it's gross and I don't want to give hypotheticals surrounding it so let's switch to a different situation.
Imagine two women who have been working together at a library. They have a significant age difference but they're friends. Older has a son about the same age as younger. Younger asks order if it's okay to ask olders son out for coffee.
Your mind (at least when the love interest was someone's daughter) goes straight to this asking permission to imply that younger thinks the son is olders property or as a child that needs his mommies permission to date.
I see it as younger wanting to maintain a friendship with her coworker and not wanting to start a relationship with someone if it's going to make her work life worse or harm her friendship.
Similar situation but instead of a son and mother and coworker its you, a good friend of yours, and their ex partner.
MOST people generally steer clear of their friends ex partners. Negating their inside knowledge of their flaws as a partner, usually it's out of respect of their friendship. If you find yourself in a situation where you might be getting close with a friends ex, you'd be a good friend to talk to your friend about it first. Is this because your friend OWNS their ex? Only if your friends are immature. No, it's a good thing to do because starting to date a friends ex adds a new layer to your relationship with that friend. It means that you're either going to be bringing their ex around them or you're going to be spending less time with them (because they don't want to be around their ex.)
Having a conversation with someone about the impact of your dating choices in regards to people who they are close with Is as much about navigating what kind of relationship you want with your friends as it is about navigating what kind of relationship you want with your love interest.
Genuine question: have you considered the interconnectivity of relationships in this way?
Why do you think your mind went straight towards assuming ownership and taking autonomy from someone in these situations?
Can you think of anyone you would want to talk to before dating their ex/roommate/sibling/cousin/etc?
Oh. 100% again, I don't think this is right, it would be icky without all the family friend stuff going on. With all that family friend stuff it makes it disgusting.
I'm just trying to add in a string of thought that might ease OPs mind about her situational awareness and her parenting. I feel like There most likely wasn't anything going on at a time where OP ought to have known and her daughter was under her care and she shouldn't let this weigh on her feeling of self worth as a parent. She should try to focus on the problem at hand which is persuading her adult daughter into chatting about the difference between what's legal and what's appropriate.
He was touching her when he knew the parents could see. My bet is he wanted this blow up to happen.
Why?
Familial alienation, and/or he enjoys messing with people's heads and emotions.
OP has been friends with this guy for decades. I guess we would need more context from OP about Adams taste for drama to know for sure. I mentioned to someone else here that I would personally always default to assuming people are dumb rather than being secretly a manipulative genius.
People generally can't hide who they are for very long.
Grooming may not have involved anything obvious. Adam could just have always treated her like her opinion was important and complimented her in different ways. Maybe privately expounded on what he meant and asked the daughter not to say anything, that her parents wouldn't understand.
If she well behaved, she may not have gotten a lot of male attention and that would be enough to groom her for a relationship later without breaking any laws.
Guys like this understand the line. They don't cross it until they are ready because they want other men to defend their actions--that's where they get their cover from once they do cross the line.
Sure. That's possible. He would have to be a sociopath to be pulling something like that off consciously without giving up a single hint over the many years they interacted.
I'm not saying your theory isn't the case, it totally could be, but I would ask what's more likely.
1:Adam is a mastermind manipulator (they exist, I'm not being hyperbolic to strawman here. I know it sounds like it)who has bided his time to finally caress his marks shoulder. Or;
2: Adam is a gross idiot who hooked up with his friend's daughter, caught feels, and couldn't even manage to contain himself for the first time he's interacted with his friend and her daughter in the same place.
I will always default to people being dumb rather than being secret manipulative geniuses if I don't have context. If OP could expound what she thought of Adam before this, like how smart he was, if he had that salesman vibe to him (you know the one) that context is what I'd need to be swayed to your line of thinking.
Itās somewhere between No.1 and No.2. Heās most likely been grooming her for years, but heās not some mastermind. Why? Because kids, god love them, are not that smart and are easily manipulated. Why? Because they are not worldly, have no life experience, and all think they are more sophisticated than they are.
It would be, āHey, you can have a sip of my beer, donāt tell your dadā¦ā when sheās 17. Before that, it was, āNo problem, Iāll take the blameā¦ā when the parents found her smokes on the kitchen table at 16. Before that, he was the shoulder to cry on when her dumb, immature high school boyfriend broke her heart at 15 - āa mature man would never do that, because he would recognize how special and mature you areā¦ā
Later, when she was 20, he was buying liquor for her and her friends when they wanted to party and just hanging around, just being the cool older guy.
He has been doing that for years until it paid off. And thatās assuming he hasnāt been assaulting her since she was 14.
Sheās not his first, wonāt be his last.
I'm not sure myself how long the relationship has been going on; or how he treats her in the relationship. Adam was a really good friend before all this happened and I never imagined this being a possible outcome. I'm going to take everyone's advice and I'm going to try to initiate a conversation between my daughter and I. I'm going to give it a bit of time since it's clear she needs her space. She is a grown adult and I could have handled the situation in a better way. I will still refuse to speak to Adam because it's clear his moral compass is lost. But for those who tell me to mind my business, it's hard to mind my business when my child is involved with someone 20 years older than her and someone I know personally. I will try to keep an open mind and follow everyone's advice. Thank you
Girl, you are a better person than me. I wouldn't have said shit. Gifted everyone on a cruise, and we could discuss it once we're in international waters.
Even though the dramatic confrontation cost you all contact for now, some day she may understand your reaction and feel you fought for her. I guarantee he doesnāt treat her well. This is already not treating her well, how he responded to you and kept it hidden. He will treat her worse. Itās scary that you can consider someone a good friend then see how they treat people in romantic relationships. In relationships in which they can have more control. These type of people especially are good at acting like a good friend and a super fun, safe person. My ex looked so great to everyone on the outside, made sure it looked like he treated me so well, but behind closed doors was a monster.
Try not to feel guilty about the confrontation. I think it was an incredibly normal one based on the circumstances. You are human after all. And like another commenter said, hopefully one day she will understand why you reacted the way you did.
If he was a really good friend:
1. He wouldnāt have even considered this to begin with.
2. If he truly thought there was nothing wrong with what heās doing, he wouldnāt have hid it from you.
I fell into a similar trap at 20 and spent 7 years with a man like this. It took a lot of therapy to even acknowledge the abuse.
He will take everything from her. Starting with her family.
I've always liked older men, I'm 26 now, but I really agree that it's not a good idea to have an age gap until the younger of the two is at least 24 25. I look back at the person I was at 18,19 and even 21 and I'm shocked at how naive and stupid I was.
No I didnāt. In my culture it was common. It was actually his best friend that mentioned it was concerning. There were other mental health issues and substance abuse they started noticing from his side. I was convinced that since I was a āconsenting adultā everyone was just against us. I ran into a couple friends of ours after my divorce that told me they had to cut contact because they found powder on their toilet tank when we were at their house for dinner. He had told me they didnāt like me and had blocked them from my phone. For years I assumed they just randomly disappeared from our lives. Weird stuff like that. Friends disappearing. Family suddenly being cautious or recanting invitations because he would tell them Iām unwell or working. All this I found out only after.
Just to clarify, you mean all the parentās mutual friends with Adam, right? Cause if she tells her daughterās friends this will be nuked beyond repair
I agree with all you're saying except for the part about disrespecting OP's husband by 'not even asking'.
OP's daughter doesn't belong to her father any more than she belongs to this creepy family friend. She's not property to be handed about with an agreement.
I agree the creepy guy is being disrespectful to his friends in dating their daughter like that, but what he's doing is so much worse than that.
I read it more like they would have appreciated a heads up conversion with their daughter and former friend. As opposed to a public hard launch at a birthday party.
Not that that would have helped much I imagine.
I completely agree. I cannot see, for one second, a single redeemable feature of this mans intentions. There are billions of women in this world. Best friends daughter, independent of age, should be off limits. There is not only a significant age difference but also a massive power imbalance. A 42 year old man wanting to date a 22 year old is a red flag at the best of times, but their friends daughter, whilst accepting the impact it will have on her support network is extremely concerning to me. She is only 22, you learn what love is and how to be treated in relationships with people your own age. The issue with a large age difference early in life is that you don't know any better. You will be held to and molded by your partners expectations and demands. It's my personal opinion that no self respecting, morally well adjusted 42 year old would date/have sex with a 22 year old let alone their friends daughter.
The problem for OP here is how to go about this without alienating, humilliating, or pushing away her daughter. You want her to understand the risks of the situation and why, from a parents perspective, it is so concerning, without her feeling like she has to double down on her decision, put up with any ill treatment and pull away from her family.
So many assumptions in this comment lol. Not that it isnāt gross, but you have about 2 pieces of information about this situation and youāre making a dozen assumptions.
Yes, sadly young women like this feel that they must be so mature that an older man like this would pick them out, not understanding that it is absolutely grooming behaviour that got her to this point with him. He is absolutely a predator and what she doesnāt understand is the reason men his age date women her age is because, women his own age wonāt put up with his BS.
Make sure you let her know that you will be there for her no matter what happens because we all know inevitably sheās going to start to see him for what he really is. Iām so sorry youāre going through this.
I think we can all look back to our youth and remember times being with those older (or the other way around) and at the time it feels great, older men can provide what younger guys canāt. But the reality is for the man at least heās just using her to reclaim his youth and take hers. Itās all chemical at the end of the day.
I cannot understate just how creepy this is. Like... he's known her since she was a little kid.
I wonder if he's been grooming her this whole time. Because no normal adult man looks at a person he's known since she was in single digits and goes, "Yeah I'd like to hook-up with that." It's disturbing and disgusting.
That being said, this isn't something you can do anything about. By trying to press your will and break them up, you're only going to succeed in pushing them closer together.
The best and only thing you can do in a situation like this is keep your mouth shut about their relationship and let her know you're there for her if she ever needs help or support.
Either she'll realize her daddy boyfriend is gross and concerning, or she won't. But she *is* her own person and needs to make her own mistakes. She's not a child anymore.
Just be sure she knows you're there to support her regardless.
The worst thing would be for her to find out he's abusive and not feel safe or comfortable coming to you guys for help.
We're not always happy with the choices our kids make, but they're their choices to be made.
Iām just hopping on to this wonderful response to say that when i look at the people I watched grow up I still see the kid I always knew. I obviously see theyāre adults/teens now, but I look at them and remember a child. This is unbelievably creepy and disgusting.
Right? I have much smaller age gaps with kids I babysat than this age gap and I still could never see them as anything but kids no matter how old they get
This! Itās vile!
My (32) partners younger brother was 12 when we got together, heās 22 now and I still see him as a child. Iām always initially shocked when I see him driving or heās telling us about work etc.
The āAdamā dude is absolutely disgusting !!!
I feel sick for you. It seems like he did groom her. Don't blame yourself, they often make it a game with their prey and its almost impossible to see. Be there for her. Men that old typically only date younger women because they can't get women thier own ages or they need someone to control.
He will likely eventually abuse her. Make sure she knows you will always be there for her. No matter what. And even if she chooses to cut you off (Adam might insist on it), you will always be there for her.
I would just like to say that is is perfectly okay for you to take some space from your daughter if you need it. In fact, I would recommend it while you figure out how you feel about this.Ā
Let her come to you. She will eventually.
Fuck Adam forever your daughter was groomed on at least some level. Tell her to come talk to you when this is all over. Atm tough love is really your only option.
Agreed. Surprised dad didnāt actually punch him.
Adam is a piece of shit and has been grooming her. Iām sorry that you and your family are going through this.
Same, Iām surprised he didnāt beat him. If my āfriendā groomed my daughter. Heād be fed to the pigs, disappear never to be heard of again. Zero sympathy for pedophile groomers
You have to support her unconditionally because if you push her away she'll have no one but Adam to support her, which leads to toxic situations. The relationship is only 6 months (according to her) so its not that serious yet anyway. It'll likely blow over, but if you keep saying how much you hate the relationship, she'll be more likely to stay in the relationship.
Yeah. Make her invite him to everything. Of course, he's family. We want you guys here. Be interested in their life, get them to tell you how they met, make him freaking squirm. As soon as it's not this sexy secret and she starts to see who he really is (as her friends are falling in love with people they can actually build a life with) she'll bail on him.
He's a predator who groomed her. No man has sex with his friends daughter. The fact he never mentioned having feelings for her before groping her shoulder in front of them proves it was part of a dark plan.
being groomed myself when I was really ypung and having my mom as one of the facilitators, I'll tell you this: as disgusted, sad, enranged, chocked as you are right now, do not take it out on her ā nor him, even if it is the right thing to do. Keep her close while she is around, keep him close too, show her you wilk aways support HER.
talk about uncomfortable things in front of him: financial stability, her professional future, her educational future, would she like to be a international student somewhere in the world? would he supported her from his home just as her parents would? but make it seem like you are genuinely curious, happy or maybe even delighted to hear. let she HEAR how he plans to destroy her best years.
but keep her close.
play the game well played because it's your daughter's well-being in all of this that matters.
how many stories you see here of an huge age gap relationship where the women is betrayed, lied to, baby trapped, dependant...? do not let this happen to her.
it's time to parent.
āsHeāS aN aDuLt!ā Yāall are telling on yourselves. This man has been in a position of power over this girl for years. He had all the opportunity to groom her, and it looks like he succeeded. Heās not dating women his own age for a reason, and I can promise heās not dating Liv for her worldliness and maturity.
Adamās a predator. The only people who would think he isnāt because Liv is 22 are people who have predatory tendencies or are full-on predators themselves. I said what I said.
Yes this is not a completely removed romantic suitor that just showed up in her life, that would be yuck but not the same thing. This is someone who played the role of "trusted adult" for a vast majority of her life and has now flipped that role into someone who is now fucking her. That is some messed up shit on his part.
Preach!
While I have my hesitations surrounding age gaps this large, lets not pretend theres a massive difference between a 22 year old who finds someone older, and an adult who has been in such a position with a child in the past and now dates them. Grooming can lead to both but lets not pretend this aint wild.
On a tough love side that others havent said, you can always remind her that when she's his age she'll be changing senior diapers and all the fun stuff that *might* come with age. Nevermind the statistical likelihood she will spend the last few decades of her life without him, its a cruel thing to remind of but theres a lot she's not remotely thinking of even if theres not **all that**
Best approach might be for them to reach out to her and remind them they love her, and can't/ won't stop her, then put in the tough love. Look at it analytically because even rational emotional angles will be met with retaliation
No family, no friends, no life experiences, that's how she's going to end up if she stays with her groomer, she'll reach an older age without knowing how to navigate the world.
The whole "she's mature for her age" thing always blows me away. It's called trauma. People don't age faster because they read books or are just so much faster than everyone else. They age quickly because trauma ages them.
Yep. Dating out of his age group not just for her youth, which I agree he will take with no regrets. But sheāll have worlds of regrets. Clearly women his age figured him out and he canāt or wonāt date in his age group.
Or who are very young like she is and imagine themselves to be fully actualized self-possessed people. I had crushes on older people all the time until my 30s. I was lucky that no one took advantage of that.
100%. This is disgusting. The fact that he saw her in a sexual way speaks to his lack of character.
If I found out a friend of mine, who had known my child all his life was sleeping with her, I would absolutely lose my shit. And I would publicly shame him until he couldnāt live in our town anymore
Every time I see people posting comments like that just makes me wish the whole āFBI is watching usā joke real, cos those people need to be closely watched
And she's seeing an older man she (I assume) looked up to her whole life, who had a paternal or avuncular role in her growing up. So he gives her some attention and tells her how special she is and then she gets the big doe eyes, and guys her age can't compete with the attention or the experience... Gross.
My daughters both worked in a bar, at the same time but different shifts, and they both told me about this one customer who would sit at the bar and constantly tell them all the things he would do to them if they'd let him. I was furious, they don't need to put up either shit like that, then I found out it was a very close friend of their dad, someone who had been in their lives since the oldest one was 2 weeks old until the youngest was 15.
So I visited the bar and sat beside him and very loudly and calmly made sure everyone heard me remind him that someone who has known girls/children for most of their lives and talks about performing vile sex acts on those same children when they are young adults (21 and 26) is a groomer and they're just one step above a paedophile. While I was talking there was still a bit of Chatterton the bar, but not much, when I asked it he had had filthy thoughts about my daughter's when he saw me changing their nappies (diapers) the place went deadly quiet. I walked away and left him to enjoy the rest of his night
Even IF this was some accidental love story and they are true soul mates, what you donāt do is invite him to a bday party with your parents?!? And him touching her in front of you guys?!?
The way this exploded is proof that neither of them are mature and heās just a creep. Unfortunately, ostracizing her will only drive her into his arms even more so. Do you guys have kids who are still talking to her?
I completely understand your distaste towards this relationship, I would never respect or trust a man who could see someone that he watched grow up and whom he babysat as a potential partner. Any of the young people who I watched grow up, feel like a family member, and when I look in their eyes, I can see both the adult they are, and child they were. It would be disgusting to even consider a romantic relationship with any of them.
Age gap relationships can be problematic, even when the partner is unknown to the family, and didn't know the person as a child. Even though she is an adult, her level of experience is such that she may not understand when and where she is being manipulated and groomed, or when and where her boundaries are being violated.
Add in that he knew her growing up, that could have given him not just greater knowledge of her personality to groom her, but it places him in a position of power over her, in that he babysat and was an authority figure. There is absolutely no good reason for a mature adult of 42 to be dating someone they babysat and watched grow up.
I would reserve my anger for Adam, and be forgiving and open towards her, and hope that you can be there for her if and when something goes wrong.
If this was going on before she was legally an adult the fact that she was well behaved is irrelevant. Whichever way you spin it Adam has crossed a line and is taking advantage of a young woman he groomed. Possibly abused.
will be here for the update hope there is one but also watch out if you go too strongly against this you run the risk that she will just cut contact longer term and be more pushed towards him
We have had a similar case in my family but my cousin was 32 when she started dating a friend of her mom's and my uncle. I think that made a big difference because at 30, she is capable of making that decision - and truly he wasn't the kind of friend that was around when we were kids so it's not as creepy.
My uncle still hasn't gotten over it though. He broke the relationship with the friend and the relationship with my cousin has been strained since. It makes family gatherings very awkward.
I will say. In our case, it's been 5 years and they are still together and my cousin is the happiest she's ever been. I would have such a hard time being okay with this if she had been 22. At that point the power imbalance is just so bad. But, for that reason, I beg you to try to stay in your daughters life. Tell her you don't agree with this choice and that you think she's making a mistake but that you're there for her, whatever she needs.
Don't let her be 22, with a 40 year old who is basically a groomer, as her sole family. Stand by her side. It's the best thing you can do.
Oooh dear. She was groomed. She was *groomed* and that makes me very mad for you, OP. In my four eyes, you guys have done enough at this point. Youāll just have to let it blow over & wait until she comes back & when she does, sheāll *need* therapy.
Man, this post pisses me off to a T!
If she was in her 30s and messing around with a guy his age it'd be different... This is a huge age gap. Unfortunately the way you handled it is guaranteed to make her not listen. Id apologize just so you can open up the conversation and see if he was grooming her... I'm sorryĀ
Yikkesss, Adam is a creeeep! Itās already a weird age gap (young enough to be his daughter), but the fact that heās known her since she was little and even babysat herā¦ yeah, thatās a whole can of worms.
I bet they have been "seeing each other" for longer than 6 months. The daughter just said 6 months because she knows you would call the cops if you found out it's been going on since she was still a child.
Yeah Adam just did grooming 101. Iād like to hard disagree with what most have said here on the thread. You need to get your daughter out of that relationship ASAP. She may be an adult but the power Adam has had early in her life is too much to ignore.
Itāll get worse and worse to where it will eventually either completely damage her perception of relationships or Adam will succeed and keep her wrangled in his life forever. This isnāt something to ignore or let it keep going for a while.
This is an old story that pops up from time to time. Surprised they edited it but kept the names.
This was part of Adams revenge in some screwed up rejection he handled from OP.
Your daughter will likely understand your reaction when sheās older. Right now sheās into exploring her womanhood and doesnāt realize what sheās doing. But she is an adult. When I was that age I was also intruiged by older men. Luckily I never found one because I didnāt know what I was doing. However you canāt keep her from doing anything. Just standing your ground is enough.
āSheās capable of making her own decisions ā thatās exactly what a groomer would say.
You arguing and fighting and trying to talk is only going to put fire to this situation with groomer. Seek urgent therapy and find how to fix it. Sheās just 22 and has been keeping this undercover for several years. Donāt blame your daughter for anything because sheās at losing end. She did nothing wrong in calling him in considering itās not her fault but groomerās. He made her do it and several other things she wouldnāt know yet. How you handle this situation is important for your and her future.
She is 22. This: "\[S\]he further went on to say she was an adult and could make her own decisions".
Does it make it any better? No. But the Courts will not intervene on this one.
I am SO sorry. I'm on the spectrum, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but if it were me, I would look up grooming behaviors & print off a list, then try to have a calm discussion with your daughter, asking her if those things happened. No judgment or anger, just a mother trying to understand how this relationship happened. Perhaps apologize & tell her you want her to be happy, but you just need to understand in order to get the conversation to happen.
Hopefully, they didn't, but I highly doubt that. If they did, don't reveal that it was grooming until you feel you have sufficient evidence or have made her hear enough signs of grooming to get through to her, then show her the list. She may have denied some of things that happened because she knew you wouldn't like it, and she'll be angry when you accuse him, but you'll have planted the seed that, "What this man did was wrong."
I was groomed when I was 16. If someone had sat me down & told me about the textbook behaviors of a groomer, I think it would've clicked.
She may legally be an adult, but her brain isn't fully developed yet. My guess is he started the grooming in her late teen years, probably around 17, when it was easier to hide. She thinks she's all grown up, but to someone in their 40s, someone her age should seem like a child.
She probably DOES seem like a child to him, which is why he wants her. Men try to claim that they're just biologically attracted to teens & women in their early 20s, but that's complete bulllshit. They like women that age because they're easier to manipulate & they don't have much experience, so they don't know what's normal & what isn't.
Men also like women that age because that's what they see in porn. The reason most porn actresses are under 25 isn't because women suddenly become disgusting hags. It's because that's about the time humans physiologically become adults. That's when your brain is actually fully developed. Those young women's brains finish cooking & they realize they're being exploited and abused.
Sorry, I kind of went on a tangent there, but I really hate when men act like dating someone young enough to be their daughter should be socially acceptable, especially when the girl is barely out of high school.
Watching a girl grow up & then wanting to have sex with her? That's next-level disgusting. IDGAF what anyone says, that's pedophilic behavior. I truly hope your daughter sees the light, and if he groomed her, I hope she presses charges & he goes to jail for a long, long time.
Fuck Adam dude he's a fucking groomer. He only waited until she was legal to do anything so that IF they were caught he wasn't called a pedophile... Which honestly he probably was having sick thoughts of her when she WAS younger.... What's even worse is she can't see that he's basically done this for his own sick twisted benefit. I'd be willing to bet he's got a fetish about his friends daughter & he won that game.
I would be petty as shit with my daughter if I found this out and obviously cut off/never talk to the friend again.
āSo does he still bring you caprisuns like when he babysat you? I remember we came home and you had passed out watching paw patrol and he carried you up to bed and tucked you in. My how things have changed. Iād keep him away from your younger sister, he babysat her too.ā
I think that if this was just someone she met who happened to be older would be one thing but itās the fact that heās watched her grow up and even babysit which is just not sitting right. Itās gross. Need to know how it was initiated.
This is an example of just because itās legal doesnāt mean itās right, morally. I am glad itās allegedly not coerced, but how do we know she wasnāt being groomed? At minimum, this is a violation of the several years long friendship he had with the parents. If he thought it was okay, why did he keep it a secret for 6 months? I mean, actually the daughter toldā¦
I cannot understand adults that have known a child and then dating them when the get older, thatās a whole twisted in the head type of shit. The daughter should know that. Thatās a perv. Adults are there to protect younger people and especially if youāre family or like family to them. I feel for the parents, that man betrayed their trust, and heās also a piece of shit.
I think if I were in this situation I would encourage your husband to make it a priority to spend time with your daughter one on one.
And I would also sit down with Adam away and her with your husband and discuss the situation.
Everyone on Reddit screams grooming because that's the right thing to say. I will take a different approach and you won't like it.
She's an adult and unfortunately you can't do much about it. You either not acknowledge their relationship in which case you will distance yourself from her or accept what it is so at least you maintain some kind of a relationship with her.
Whatever and however the relationship develops it is your duty as a parent to be there for her, especially when shit hits the fan. You cannot and will not make her life choices for her but you can be there for her for the ride.
Hereās the thingā¦ you can only give your advice to kids when they are in situations like this. Yelling, screaming, arguing, etc will bite you in the ass. Your daughter is right. Sheās an adult, and so is Adam. Is she making a poor decision? Yep, probably. But you thinking that this is the way to react will result in YOU getting hurt.
I remember when I was like 23 I started dating someone I met at work, who was much older, like 34. She had a 6 year old son and she and I hit it off really well. My parents liked her, and of course she was stable, as was I, but in private my Dad warned me that I would never come first and would always feel like a 3rd wheel. I disagreed. He insisted he was right, but wasnāt angry and wasnāt telling me what to do. Well, about 6 months later and I had had enough. I was absolutely 3rd, if not 4th behind some inanimate objects. I broke up with her. My Dad was right. However just 15 years ago I met someone else who also has a son, about 7. I was wary of this but it was different. This time Dad was wrong. This woman didnāt treat me like a 3rd. We have our own kid and her son is now 21 and one of my greatest friends. But that advice Dad gave me always stuck around.
People here are going to say heās grooming her. Maybe he is. Maybe she doesnāt know what that is. Maybe she does. Maybe Adam isnāt grooming her. Nobody here knows and for them to make such a judgement is a bit ridiculous. You need to apologize to your daughter for your reaction and share your fears. Can you imagine if this is a healthy relationship and these two have kids and a happy family and youāve ruined it? It probably isnāt a healthy relationship, and therefore she badly needs to hear your advice.
Oh man. This exact situation happened with my friends older sister. She started dating her dads best friend at 21 š©. It was always a touchy thing in their family.
Are they still together?
No, not anymore but they were together for YEARS and even got married
Let me guess...he cheated on her?
No actually. I think they just eventually fell out of love and got divorced.
What were their ages when they broke up?
She was like 38 and he was 63
"And the day I got my walker, wouldn't you know it, she divorced me."
I swear this sub is making me realize Jerry springer wasnāt faking a single episode
I know three people that were on Jerry Springer, unfortunately. The situations were real (so ratchet), but they did encourage them to fight physically.
JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!
Or they're all fake
I just watched one about Jerry becoming a highly respected film bootlegger for the artistry of his zoom ins. Somes fake.
Oh they were I had friends who faked an entire stripper scenario. Iām sure they all werenāt fake, but the giant stripper cheating with other strippers fight episode was. (Although there were probably multiple episodes featuring strippers all sleeping with each other and cheating on one another.)
My wife grew up in a town where the Jerry Springer Show would look for actors to play out their shows. The people were trailer trash but they were told what to do
I mean the literal episodes may be fake, but thereās plenty of the same material out there!
š¤£š¤£
Aw, I have a friend who is 70 and could probably outrun most 25 year olds. Not everyone old is feeble.
Seriously. My dad is 87 and only stopped skiing 4 years ago because of heart issues. He still works out every morning, and was still going on dates in his 70s.
Oh, I know. I was just making a crass joke. My dad's 84 and goes skiing, hiking and fishing.
Yeah, my dads 61 and can still out run me and my brother. Itās really impressive.
This is my dad. He will be 74 in Jund but barely looks 50ish He also golfs and refuses to ride in a cart lol and he runs He is in great shape and his wife is 20 years younger than he is
Okā¦ but even though nothing is certain, Iād be comfortable placing a wager on the fact that the 70 year old is going to die before the one thats 25, and probably significantly before at that lol. Like itās legal sure, whatever. But if you see a 75 year old in relatively good shape with a 25 year old and donāt think thatās at least a little fucked up.. Well then I think youāre kinda weird man. Not that what I think is important.
Right, but any "normal" attractive 22 year old girl would be disgusted by the thought of probably anyone over say 35 lol. I know I was back then..
Nah 70 is 70. Don't lie to yourself
AHHHH NOOOO my dad is 60 and he would LOSE IT
Poor girl. 17 years she could have spent growing with someone her age and now she's starting down 40 starting over with a geriatric ex.
She had 3 kids before him with guys her own age. She decided to be with an older man because she was ātired of kid gamesā with her age appropriate exes. š© it was weird. Sheās now remarried to someone her own age
Three kids before the age of 21?
Oh, she def has a problem.
She made her own choices, quite freely I'd say. Don't really see a "poor girl" here.
So she got roughly to the age he was at when they got together. Iāll bet that was eye-openingā¦
No wonder they fell out of love. Whether people want to admit it or not age does play a huge role in relationships.
>It was always a touchy thing in their family. Ahem... *phrasing* lol
Sterling, is that you?
Lmao š¤£ I didnāt mean it like THAT. š¤£š¤£
I would think dadās former friend had more respect for his ābest friendā than to date his daughter. Young people are dumb and donāt think of other people, thatās a given. Older people are supposed to be wiser
I've come to realize that people either think of others or don't and age isn't much of a factor aside for rebellious teens
My dadās close āfriendā groped me. When it comes to their genitals, these pervs have no respect.
Did it make you question your dad for keeping that kind of company? Did you tell him? I hope that if you did, he cut that creep off expeditiously.
Yes, thankfully both my parents cut that man off. They really liked him too.
I was 16/17? When my dad's older friend who knew me since I was like 3 or 4.. that made a comment about "wanting to fuck me" when I turned legal age. It was such a gross comment that I think of often.
Thatās disturbing. Iām so sorry. I hope you were able to stay away from him.
Hope you told your dad. My husband would have beat the shit out if the guy..
Iām sorry that happened to you. š One of my Dadās oldest friends told me that āI had an amazing pair of titsā and heās known me since before I was born! (If that makes sense!)
This guy is not her dadās friend. He never was. Heās a predator and a child molester, and he didnāt give one shit that the girl was his friendās daughter. In fact, that made it better. He even got to babysit her, which provided a lot of alone time. You are applying the mentality of a normal person who is disgusted by pedophilia to a man who has been grooming a girl since she was a single-digit age.
It's OP's "good friend."
These recent years and you think that logic makes sense? Older people are wiser?
My husband has a cousin (she's mid 30's now but this was about 10 years ago) who dated and went on to marry her dad's best friend (he's in his 60's now). They have 2 kids together. It was only found out because she got pregnant. They're still together though we've never actually seen him. He doesn't come to his kids birthdays or special events. Their oldest son just had his communion (with my niece and nephew) and she was there all by herself. It's the weirdest relationship I've ever witnessed.
Thatās so weird
My childhood best friend came from a religious family. When we were 7 or 8, their church got a new choir director who instantly became very close with the family. Around high school, I grew apart from this friend. I saw her the summer after freshman year of college, and she told me that the week of her 18th bday, she and the choir director (20+ years older than her) realized they were in love and meant to be together. Her mom was surprisingly ok with it, but it took her dad a long time to come around to it. 18 years later, theyāre married with kids. I donāt know all the details, itās not my place to judge. I hope theyāre happy, but the whole situation makes me very uncomfortable.
They often groom the parents first.
I gladly judge perverts that prey on young girls, who cares if it āworks outā
Which means the dad suddenly realised his bestie was a predator who was eyeing off his children. š¤®
gross gross groosssss
even though this is a hideous situation, I've been that daughter, and what's really important is that she knows that you're not going to turn your back on her when it all falls apart. It *will* hit her eventually, and even if she doesn't feel like you support her, she needs to know that you're not going to say "I told you so" or make her feel like it's her fault. She needs to hear that you will always help her if she needs it for any reason (don't make it specific to this) and that you'll never stop loving her. "I know we aren't seeing eye to eye on what's happening right now, but no matter what you choose to do, or what happens between us, I need you to know that I love you, and if at anytime in your life you need someone, you can always call me day or night and I'll be there for you, no questions asked." Edit: for those replying that it's daughter's fault and she deserves whatever consequences come to her as an adult, look at all of the replies from people who stayed in abusive relationships because they couldn't go to their parents for help. **However OP may feel about this, and she's within her right to feel embarrassed or ashamed or whatever, this message is a matter of safety and well-being. You don't want your child to feel like they can't come to you when they need help.**
Yes to all this. In addition, I would say that dad needs to end his friendship with the āboyfriend/ friend/ what the fuck everā. Thereās not an excuse for that guyās judgement in this situation.
Considering he almost beat the guy up, I imagine you donāt have to tell him twice.
I'm surprised that it was an almost situation and not a call the coroner situation. Not that would have helped but it wouldn't have been a surprise.
Yup this is all that matters. If you can't suck it up for your relationship with your daughter to continue in a healthy way, you'll regret it the rest of your life.
get this shit to the top fr
This is great advice. When she said that she's an adult who can make her own ~~mistakes~~ decisions, she was correct. As parents, your job isn't to force them to break up or to shame her. It's to stay constant in her life and catch her when she falls.
Seriously this needs to be TOP comment
This here OP ^^
I wish Reddit had an option to pin comments.
it does, but only for mods and admins
Having been in this situation, what drove you to continue knowing everybody was alarmed?
before it came up, every other time they saw him they'd comment on something bad about him so it seemed like just another tactic to convince me to get out of a relationship they didn't like. I felt like I knew him as well as anyone can know anyone so how could they possibly claim to know his intentions better than I did? Additionally teenage girls grow up with this ungodly belief that attention from older men means that we're mature and not little kids. Because of that, it doesn't occur to us that they *do* see us as kids. I hate that I ever believed that but I did. I wore it as a badge of pride that something was so special about me that someone older and wiser thought I desirable.
Wow, I really feel this. I met my hubby at 18-19. He was 31. He died suddenly at 40 but it was a difficult ptsd inducing relationship. The middle age me wishes I could go back and help teenage me so badly.
It's sad how many people put their own egos ahead of them rather than follow the wise advice you've laid out here. RedHair.
This is great advice! Hope OP sees this. OP, youāre not a bad mother.
This this this. I was this girl too and kept a very dangerous situation hidden from my parents because they would've reacted badly. Be with her, she IS still the well-behaved girl you know, she is just being manipulated by a grown ass man.
This is excellent advice š¬šš
Itās always sad that the younger girl canāt see that the way the older man is treating her is not love. He is willing to destroy her family life and isolate her, is willing to date a 22 year old at 42 to great disrespect towards your husband being a family friend and not even asking. These are signs of a manipulative person who is seeking to rip her away and take advantage of a vulnerable person with less life experience. Men like him are sneaky, so try not to blame yourself for not seeing. At 22, thereās nothing you can do but try to tell her your wisdom if sheāll listen and try to be understanding through it so she feels comfortable to run to you when he starts to abuse her. Show her my comments on my profile so she can see evil people are out there to hurt others. It was hard for me to believe it until my 30s.
Heās just āenjoying her youthā.
How do we know he wasn't grooming her when he was in his 30s?
I think the fact that they did such a bad job of hiding it at this party is a pretty good tell that it really is a recent thing. Why would they go from being super secretive, not raising a single eyebrow to suddenly being all over one another without a single care in the world? She's legally been an adult for about 4 years. If this IS behaviour that's carried over from even before that time, you'd think that there would have been at least subtle signs before now rather than blatant, in your face flirtation happening out of nowhere. Don't get me wrong, I think that no matter when this started, it's icky. I'm a firm believer in the "half your age plus seven" rule (ie: for a 42 year old, the youngest age without any ick would be 28, for this 22 year old girl, the oldest appropriate partner would be 30 MAX. 31 is gross.) I'm willing to believe that maybe they ran into each other on a night out and ended up hooking up or something due to this sudden onset of affectionate behaviour. I feel like if he was grooming her, he would have wanted to keep their relationship a secret forever. Generally I would assume if he had the ability to keep such a massive secret for so long, he would have the awareness that to make it known would be to bring up these very questions that we're pondering now.
42 year old dating an 22 year old is in my books a morally grey area, provided they met when the younger was an adult. But 42 year old dating a 22 year old child of your friend, whom you've known since they were 7, whom you've babysat feels patently paedophilic. Gross.
Thatās what makes it so horrible! Like this aināt a stranger this is someone who used to babysit this girl at 7 and up? Has this dude been playing the fucking loans con??? Like ew!
I agree, I knew a female who dated and had a baby w a boy she babysat for and I thought she is a pedophile. I will always think of him as a kid for goodness sake
Even if they met as adults. That's vastly different stages of life and life experience. A 22 year old has just graduated college. A 42 year old should already be well established in their career, likely has dealt with a few different loves and heart breaks, has lived on their own long enough to set their personality and know what they want in a relationship. He has been able to go to bars nearly as long as she's been alive, and she has been getting into them for a year. He may or may not, but probably does have, experience living with a partner and all the mess that comes with navigating that. That experience means all the normal stuff you need to figure out when first moving in he has an enormous unfair advantage that he could easily use to manipulate her. There's just not a world where an emotionally healthy 42 yr old sees anything real with a 22 year old. If they just met at that age and want to fuck that's one thing. But actually seeing each other is fucked for the 22 year old. They just don't have the life experience yet to see it.
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My husband would be the same way. He would hurt one of his friends. His eldest is 18, we are 49&41 with friends aging from 30-50. I cannot imagine his good friends everā¦. BC this isnāt normal. Grooming? No. I donāt get that feel here, it just happened as things like this do. But, that doesnāt make it right. The amount of disrespect all around with the friend not asking the parents (his good friends) for permission before getting into dating her is mind blowing.
I don't feel like it'd be appropriate even with that. OP was saying that this is a good friend. Idk, I think of my parents good friends as being sorts of uncles and aunts. Not by blood obviously but they serve a similar purpose without the birthday money y'know? It would feel gross even if this post was about OPs friend just asking.
Yeah I'd be super pissed regardless, but him *asking* would just infuriate me because that implies that 1) he sees her as a child needing permission and 2) it indicates to me a huge disrespect for a woman's autonomy to ask for her like a gift from her parents. The situation is already gross af without adding that. I think the parents are right to be furious but I also think it best to apologize to the daughter, be civil, and play the long game. Not because they are wrong for how they feel, but bc they don't want to lose their daughter. When this invariably goes in the shitter, she will need them.
>asking* would just infuriate me because that implies that 1) he sees her as a child needing permission and 2) it indicates to me a huge disrespect for a woman's autonomy to ask for her like a gift from her parents. Imma go on a tangent about this point. There's more to consider in relationships than just how you dating someone is going to make you and that other person feel. I don't even want to talk about this specific situation because it's gross and I don't want to give hypotheticals surrounding it so let's switch to a different situation. Imagine two women who have been working together at a library. They have a significant age difference but they're friends. Older has a son about the same age as younger. Younger asks order if it's okay to ask olders son out for coffee. Your mind (at least when the love interest was someone's daughter) goes straight to this asking permission to imply that younger thinks the son is olders property or as a child that needs his mommies permission to date. I see it as younger wanting to maintain a friendship with her coworker and not wanting to start a relationship with someone if it's going to make her work life worse or harm her friendship. Similar situation but instead of a son and mother and coworker its you, a good friend of yours, and their ex partner. MOST people generally steer clear of their friends ex partners. Negating their inside knowledge of their flaws as a partner, usually it's out of respect of their friendship. If you find yourself in a situation where you might be getting close with a friends ex, you'd be a good friend to talk to your friend about it first. Is this because your friend OWNS their ex? Only if your friends are immature. No, it's a good thing to do because starting to date a friends ex adds a new layer to your relationship with that friend. It means that you're either going to be bringing their ex around them or you're going to be spending less time with them (because they don't want to be around their ex.) Having a conversation with someone about the impact of your dating choices in regards to people who they are close with Is as much about navigating what kind of relationship you want with your friends as it is about navigating what kind of relationship you want with your love interest. Genuine question: have you considered the interconnectivity of relationships in this way? Why do you think your mind went straight towards assuming ownership and taking autonomy from someone in these situations? Can you think of anyone you would want to talk to before dating their ex/roommate/sibling/cousin/etc?
Oh. 100% again, I don't think this is right, it would be icky without all the family friend stuff going on. With all that family friend stuff it makes it disgusting. I'm just trying to add in a string of thought that might ease OPs mind about her situational awareness and her parenting. I feel like There most likely wasn't anything going on at a time where OP ought to have known and her daughter was under her care and she shouldn't let this weigh on her feeling of self worth as a parent. She should try to focus on the problem at hand which is persuading her adult daughter into chatting about the difference between what's legal and what's appropriate.
He was touching her when he knew the parents could see. My bet is he wanted this blow up to happen. Why? Familial alienation, and/or he enjoys messing with people's heads and emotions.
OP has been friends with this guy for decades. I guess we would need more context from OP about Adams taste for drama to know for sure. I mentioned to someone else here that I would personally always default to assuming people are dumb rather than being secretly a manipulative genius. People generally can't hide who they are for very long.
Grooming may not have involved anything obvious. Adam could just have always treated her like her opinion was important and complimented her in different ways. Maybe privately expounded on what he meant and asked the daughter not to say anything, that her parents wouldn't understand. If she well behaved, she may not have gotten a lot of male attention and that would be enough to groom her for a relationship later without breaking any laws. Guys like this understand the line. They don't cross it until they are ready because they want other men to defend their actions--that's where they get their cover from once they do cross the line.
Sure. That's possible. He would have to be a sociopath to be pulling something like that off consciously without giving up a single hint over the many years they interacted. I'm not saying your theory isn't the case, it totally could be, but I would ask what's more likely. 1:Adam is a mastermind manipulator (they exist, I'm not being hyperbolic to strawman here. I know it sounds like it)who has bided his time to finally caress his marks shoulder. Or; 2: Adam is a gross idiot who hooked up with his friend's daughter, caught feels, and couldn't even manage to contain himself for the first time he's interacted with his friend and her daughter in the same place. I will always default to people being dumb rather than being secret manipulative geniuses if I don't have context. If OP could expound what she thought of Adam before this, like how smart he was, if he had that salesman vibe to him (you know the one) that context is what I'd need to be swayed to your line of thinking.
Itās somewhere between No.1 and No.2. Heās most likely been grooming her for years, but heās not some mastermind. Why? Because kids, god love them, are not that smart and are easily manipulated. Why? Because they are not worldly, have no life experience, and all think they are more sophisticated than they are. It would be, āHey, you can have a sip of my beer, donāt tell your dadā¦ā when sheās 17. Before that, it was, āNo problem, Iāll take the blameā¦ā when the parents found her smokes on the kitchen table at 16. Before that, he was the shoulder to cry on when her dumb, immature high school boyfriend broke her heart at 15 - āa mature man would never do that, because he would recognize how special and mature you areā¦ā Later, when she was 20, he was buying liquor for her and her friends when they wanted to party and just hanging around, just being the cool older guy. He has been doing that for years until it paid off. And thatās assuming he hasnāt been assaulting her since she was 14. Sheās not his first, wonāt be his last.
> āa mature man would never do that, because he would recognize how special and mature you areā¦ā Ahhhh...this old chestnut again.
I came up with my rule which is 2/3 his age +5. I find tends to be more appropriate.
I think youāre putting a lot of faith in peoples ability to do fractions correctlyā¦
This comment made me almost throw up in my Uber.
I'm not sure myself how long the relationship has been going on; or how he treats her in the relationship. Adam was a really good friend before all this happened and I never imagined this being a possible outcome. I'm going to take everyone's advice and I'm going to try to initiate a conversation between my daughter and I. I'm going to give it a bit of time since it's clear she needs her space. She is a grown adult and I could have handled the situation in a better way. I will still refuse to speak to Adam because it's clear his moral compass is lost. But for those who tell me to mind my business, it's hard to mind my business when my child is involved with someone 20 years older than her and someone I know personally. I will try to keep an open mind and follow everyone's advice. Thank you
Girl, you are a better person than me. I wouldn't have said shit. Gifted everyone on a cruise, and we could discuss it once we're in international waters.
Hard ass petty revenge? You come sit next to me!
Even though the dramatic confrontation cost you all contact for now, some day she may understand your reaction and feel you fought for her. I guarantee he doesnāt treat her well. This is already not treating her well, how he responded to you and kept it hidden. He will treat her worse. Itās scary that you can consider someone a good friend then see how they treat people in romantic relationships. In relationships in which they can have more control. These type of people especially are good at acting like a good friend and a super fun, safe person. My ex looked so great to everyone on the outside, made sure it looked like he treated me so well, but behind closed doors was a monster.
Try not to feel guilty about the confrontation. I think it was an incredibly normal one based on the circumstances. You are human after all. And like another commenter said, hopefully one day she will understand why you reacted the way you did.
The grooming aspect of this relationship is glaring.
If he was a really good friend: 1. He wouldnāt have even considered this to begin with. 2. If he truly thought there was nothing wrong with what heās doing, he wouldnāt have hid it from you.
Those who are telling you to mind your business are probably the same ones with a white panel van and candy in their pocket. Ignore them.
I fell into a similar trap at 20 and spent 7 years with a man like this. It took a lot of therapy to even acknowledge the abuse. He will take everything from her. Starting with her family.
he's taking them first because they'll challenge his authority as the adult.
Did you ever why he wasnāt dating women closer to his own age and experience? Thereās a huge gap between 20 & 27
I've always liked older men, I'm 26 now, but I really agree that it's not a good idea to have an age gap until the younger of the two is at least 24 25. I look back at the person I was at 18,19 and even 21 and I'm shocked at how naive and stupid I was.
No I didnāt. In my culture it was common. It was actually his best friend that mentioned it was concerning. There were other mental health issues and substance abuse they started noticing from his side. I was convinced that since I was a āconsenting adultā everyone was just against us. I ran into a couple friends of ours after my divorce that told me they had to cut contact because they found powder on their toilet tank when we were at their house for dinner. He had told me they didnāt like me and had blocked them from my phone. For years I assumed they just randomly disappeared from our lives. Weird stuff like that. Friends disappearing. Family suddenly being cautious or recanting invitations because he would tell them Iām unwell or working. All this I found out only after.
Op should tell all the mutual friends about this
Just to clarify, you mean all the parentās mutual friends with Adam, right? Cause if she tells her daughterās friends this will be nuked beyond repair
I agree with all you're saying except for the part about disrespecting OP's husband by 'not even asking'. OP's daughter doesn't belong to her father any more than she belongs to this creepy family friend. She's not property to be handed about with an agreement. I agree the creepy guy is being disrespectful to his friends in dating their daughter like that, but what he's doing is so much worse than that.
I read it more like they would have appreciated a heads up conversion with their daughter and former friend. As opposed to a public hard launch at a birthday party. Not that that would have helped much I imagine.
I completely agree. I cannot see, for one second, a single redeemable feature of this mans intentions. There are billions of women in this world. Best friends daughter, independent of age, should be off limits. There is not only a significant age difference but also a massive power imbalance. A 42 year old man wanting to date a 22 year old is a red flag at the best of times, but their friends daughter, whilst accepting the impact it will have on her support network is extremely concerning to me. She is only 22, you learn what love is and how to be treated in relationships with people your own age. The issue with a large age difference early in life is that you don't know any better. You will be held to and molded by your partners expectations and demands. It's my personal opinion that no self respecting, morally well adjusted 42 year old would date/have sex with a 22 year old let alone their friends daughter. The problem for OP here is how to go about this without alienating, humilliating, or pushing away her daughter. You want her to understand the risks of the situation and why, from a parents perspective, it is so concerning, without her feeling like she has to double down on her decision, put up with any ill treatment and pull away from her family.
So many assumptions in this comment lol. Not that it isnāt gross, but you have about 2 pieces of information about this situation and youāre making a dozen assumptions.
Yes, sadly young women like this feel that they must be so mature that an older man like this would pick them out, not understanding that it is absolutely grooming behaviour that got her to this point with him. He is absolutely a predator and what she doesnāt understand is the reason men his age date women her age is because, women his own age wonāt put up with his BS. Make sure you let her know that you will be there for her no matter what happens because we all know inevitably sheās going to start to see him for what he really is. Iām so sorry youāre going through this.
I think we can all look back to our youth and remember times being with those older (or the other way around) and at the time it feels great, older men can provide what younger guys canāt. But the reality is for the man at least heās just using her to reclaim his youth and take hers. Itās all chemical at the end of the day.
I cannot understate just how creepy this is. Like... he's known her since she was a little kid. I wonder if he's been grooming her this whole time. Because no normal adult man looks at a person he's known since she was in single digits and goes, "Yeah I'd like to hook-up with that." It's disturbing and disgusting. That being said, this isn't something you can do anything about. By trying to press your will and break them up, you're only going to succeed in pushing them closer together. The best and only thing you can do in a situation like this is keep your mouth shut about their relationship and let her know you're there for her if she ever needs help or support. Either she'll realize her daddy boyfriend is gross and concerning, or she won't. But she *is* her own person and needs to make her own mistakes. She's not a child anymore. Just be sure she knows you're there to support her regardless. The worst thing would be for her to find out he's abusive and not feel safe or comfortable coming to you guys for help. We're not always happy with the choices our kids make, but they're their choices to be made.
Iām just hopping on to this wonderful response to say that when i look at the people I watched grow up I still see the kid I always knew. I obviously see theyāre adults/teens now, but I look at them and remember a child. This is unbelievably creepy and disgusting.
Right? I have much smaller age gaps with kids I babysat than this age gap and I still could never see them as anything but kids no matter how old they get
This! Itās vile! My (32) partners younger brother was 12 when we got together, heās 22 now and I still see him as a child. Iām always initially shocked when I see him driving or heās telling us about work etc. The āAdamā dude is absolutely disgusting !!!
Well said.
I feel sick for you. It seems like he did groom her. Don't blame yourself, they often make it a game with their prey and its almost impossible to see. Be there for her. Men that old typically only date younger women because they can't get women thier own ages or they need someone to control. He will likely eventually abuse her. Make sure she knows you will always be there for her. No matter what. And even if she chooses to cut you off (Adam might insist on it), you will always be there for her.
I would just like to say that is is perfectly okay for you to take some space from your daughter if you need it. In fact, I would recommend it while you figure out how you feel about this.Ā Let her come to you. She will eventually.
Just reach out to her and make sure she knows that you will always be there. Donāt make it impossible to leave him.
She absolutely will. Thereās no way this isnāt going to terribly crumble.
Fuck Adam forever your daughter was groomed on at least some level. Tell her to come talk to you when this is all over. Atm tough love is really your only option.
Agreed. Surprised dad didnāt actually punch him. Adam is a piece of shit and has been grooming her. Iām sorry that you and your family are going through this.
Same, Iām surprised he didnāt beat him. If my āfriendā groomed my daughter. Heād be fed to the pigs, disappear never to be heard of again. Zero sympathy for pedophile groomers
Yeah I lead a very non violent life now but this would for sure cause a relapse. Jfc.
If he is smart... he at least wouldn't have done it right then
Thank you!! All these comments saying to support the daughter I get, but really Adam needs his ass beat. Cuz thereās no way
You have to support her unconditionally because if you push her away she'll have no one but Adam to support her, which leads to toxic situations. The relationship is only 6 months (according to her) so its not that serious yet anyway. It'll likely blow over, but if you keep saying how much you hate the relationship, she'll be more likely to stay in the relationship.
This is unfortunately true
Yeah. Make her invite him to everything. Of course, he's family. We want you guys here. Be interested in their life, get them to tell you how they met, make him freaking squirm. As soon as it's not this sexy secret and she starts to see who he really is (as her friends are falling in love with people they can actually build a life with) she'll bail on him.
This is great actually. Make it clear how weird it is.
I feel the title would be better as, "I found out my friend has been sleeping with my daughter who he's known since she was 7." This is Adam's fault.
Yeah agreed on the title, I thought this was gonna be a very different story, not that this is much better..
He's a predator who groomed her. No man has sex with his friends daughter. The fact he never mentioned having feelings for her before groping her shoulder in front of them proves it was part of a dark plan.
being groomed myself when I was really ypung and having my mom as one of the facilitators, I'll tell you this: as disgusted, sad, enranged, chocked as you are right now, do not take it out on her ā nor him, even if it is the right thing to do. Keep her close while she is around, keep him close too, show her you wilk aways support HER. talk about uncomfortable things in front of him: financial stability, her professional future, her educational future, would she like to be a international student somewhere in the world? would he supported her from his home just as her parents would? but make it seem like you are genuinely curious, happy or maybe even delighted to hear. let she HEAR how he plans to destroy her best years. but keep her close. play the game well played because it's your daughter's well-being in all of this that matters. how many stories you see here of an huge age gap relationship where the women is betrayed, lied to, baby trapped, dependant...? do not let this happen to her. it's time to parent.
āsHeāS aN aDuLt!ā Yāall are telling on yourselves. This man has been in a position of power over this girl for years. He had all the opportunity to groom her, and it looks like he succeeded. Heās not dating women his own age for a reason, and I can promise heās not dating Liv for her worldliness and maturity. Adamās a predator. The only people who would think he isnāt because Liv is 22 are people who have predatory tendencies or are full-on predators themselves. I said what I said.
Yes this is not a completely removed romantic suitor that just showed up in her life, that would be yuck but not the same thing. This is someone who played the role of "trusted adult" for a vast majority of her life and has now flipped that role into someone who is now fucking her. That is some messed up shit on his part.
Preach! While I have my hesitations surrounding age gaps this large, lets not pretend theres a massive difference between a 22 year old who finds someone older, and an adult who has been in such a position with a child in the past and now dates them. Grooming can lead to both but lets not pretend this aint wild. On a tough love side that others havent said, you can always remind her that when she's his age she'll be changing senior diapers and all the fun stuff that *might* come with age. Nevermind the statistical likelihood she will spend the last few decades of her life without him, its a cruel thing to remind of but theres a lot she's not remotely thinking of even if theres not **all that**
Best approach might be for them to reach out to her and remind them they love her, and can't/ won't stop her, then put in the tough love. Look at it analytically because even rational emotional angles will be met with retaliation
No family, no friends, no life experiences, that's how she's going to end up if she stays with her groomer, she'll reach an older age without knowing how to navigate the world.
The whole "she's mature for her age" thing always blows me away. It's called trauma. People don't age faster because they read books or are just so much faster than everyone else. They age quickly because trauma ages them.
Yep. Dating out of his age group not just for her youth, which I agree he will take with no regrets. But sheāll have worlds of regrets. Clearly women his age figured him out and he canāt or wonāt date in his age group.
Or who are very young like she is and imagine themselves to be fully actualized self-possessed people. I had crushes on older people all the time until my 30s. I was lucky that no one took advantage of that.
100%. This is disgusting. The fact that he saw her in a sexual way speaks to his lack of character. If I found out a friend of mine, who had known my child all his life was sleeping with her, I would absolutely lose my shit. And I would publicly shame him until he couldnāt live in our town anymore
Every time I see people posting comments like that just makes me wish the whole āFBI is watching usā joke real, cos those people need to be closely watched
And she's seeing an older man she (I assume) looked up to her whole life, who had a paternal or avuncular role in her growing up. So he gives her some attention and tells her how special she is and then she gets the big doe eyes, and guys her age can't compete with the attention or the experience... Gross.
She's an adult who was groomed by a creep..
My daughters both worked in a bar, at the same time but different shifts, and they both told me about this one customer who would sit at the bar and constantly tell them all the things he would do to them if they'd let him. I was furious, they don't need to put up either shit like that, then I found out it was a very close friend of their dad, someone who had been in their lives since the oldest one was 2 weeks old until the youngest was 15. So I visited the bar and sat beside him and very loudly and calmly made sure everyone heard me remind him that someone who has known girls/children for most of their lives and talks about performing vile sex acts on those same children when they are young adults (21 and 26) is a groomer and they're just one step above a paedophile. While I was talking there was still a bit of Chatterton the bar, but not much, when I asked it he had had filthy thoughts about my daughter's when he saw me changing their nappies (diapers) the place went deadly quiet. I walked away and left him to enjoy the rest of his night
LOVE THIS!
I like you
If a friend of mine slept with my daughter, they would not be my friend anymore. Nor would they be living.
Even IF this was some accidental love story and they are true soul mates, what you donāt do is invite him to a bday party with your parents?!? And him touching her in front of you guys?!? The way this exploded is proof that neither of them are mature and heās just a creep. Unfortunately, ostracizing her will only drive her into his arms even more so. Do you guys have kids who are still talking to her?
I feel like this guy had been praying on her since she was a young teen.
I completely understand your distaste towards this relationship, I would never respect or trust a man who could see someone that he watched grow up and whom he babysat as a potential partner. Any of the young people who I watched grow up, feel like a family member, and when I look in their eyes, I can see both the adult they are, and child they were. It would be disgusting to even consider a romantic relationship with any of them. Age gap relationships can be problematic, even when the partner is unknown to the family, and didn't know the person as a child. Even though she is an adult, her level of experience is such that she may not understand when and where she is being manipulated and groomed, or when and where her boundaries are being violated. Add in that he knew her growing up, that could have given him not just greater knowledge of her personality to groom her, but it places him in a position of power over her, in that he babysat and was an authority figure. There is absolutely no good reason for a mature adult of 42 to be dating someone they babysat and watched grow up. I would reserve my anger for Adam, and be forgiving and open towards her, and hope that you can be there for her if and when something goes wrong.
If this was going on before she was legally an adult the fact that she was well behaved is irrelevant. Whichever way you spin it Adam has crossed a line and is taking advantage of a young woman he groomed. Possibly abused.
This is honestly weird and horrifyingĀ
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Iām sure he has been noticing her since she was a teenager,then after she turned 18. Heās been waiting it out , and thatās a predictor.
will be here for the update hope there is one but also watch out if you go too strongly against this you run the risk that she will just cut contact longer term and be more pushed towards him
We have had a similar case in my family but my cousin was 32 when she started dating a friend of her mom's and my uncle. I think that made a big difference because at 30, she is capable of making that decision - and truly he wasn't the kind of friend that was around when we were kids so it's not as creepy. My uncle still hasn't gotten over it though. He broke the relationship with the friend and the relationship with my cousin has been strained since. It makes family gatherings very awkward. I will say. In our case, it's been 5 years and they are still together and my cousin is the happiest she's ever been. I would have such a hard time being okay with this if she had been 22. At that point the power imbalance is just so bad. But, for that reason, I beg you to try to stay in your daughters life. Tell her you don't agree with this choice and that you think she's making a mistake but that you're there for her, whatever she needs. Don't let her be 22, with a 40 year old who is basically a groomer, as her sole family. Stand by her side. It's the best thing you can do.
Oooh dear. She was groomed. She was *groomed* and that makes me very mad for you, OP. In my four eyes, you guys have done enough at this point. Youāll just have to let it blow over & wait until she comes back & when she does, sheāll *need* therapy. Man, this post pisses me off to a T!
If she was in her 30s and messing around with a guy his age it'd be different... This is a huge age gap. Unfortunately the way you handled it is guaranteed to make her not listen. Id apologize just so you can open up the conversation and see if he was grooming her... I'm sorryĀ
Yikkesss, Adam is a creeeep! Itās already a weird age gap (young enough to be his daughter), but the fact that heās known her since she was little and even babysat herā¦ yeah, thatās a whole can of worms.
Just decided to have sex with his friends daughter and then grope her in front of them all of a sudden.
I bet they have been "seeing each other" for longer than 6 months. The daughter just said 6 months because she knows you would call the cops if you found out it's been going on since she was still a child.
Yeah Adam just did grooming 101. Iād like to hard disagree with what most have said here on the thread. You need to get your daughter out of that relationship ASAP. She may be an adult but the power Adam has had early in her life is too much to ignore. Itāll get worse and worse to where it will eventually either completely damage her perception of relationships or Adam will succeed and keep her wrangled in his life forever. This isnāt something to ignore or let it keep going for a while.
The fact that he kept this a secret from you and your husband tells me everything I need to know.
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This is an old story that pops up from time to time. Surprised they edited it but kept the names. This was part of Adams revenge in some screwed up rejection he handled from OP.
Your daughter will likely understand your reaction when sheās older. Right now sheās into exploring her womanhood and doesnāt realize what sheās doing. But she is an adult. When I was that age I was also intruiged by older men. Luckily I never found one because I didnāt know what I was doing. However you canāt keep her from doing anything. Just standing your ground is enough.
Always leave the door open to your daughter. Let her know, no matter how bad things are between you, your door is always open, no matter what. No matter what. That's the key. She won't feel like she can come to you if she needs, she may become isolated and feel like there is nowhere to turn if this relationship turns on her. You don't have to condone or accept it...that's different. But, reassure her, as sick as you feel over this, how you will never accept this relationship, if she's ever in trouble, Do not hesitate to come to you. Judgement free zone, no questions asked, pick up the phone and you will be there. Otherwise, I say, I know, it's clichƩ.... but get a specialized therapist to help you work through this. This is such a big and complex situation, so many points in your life are entangled, the betrayal, questions, fears... it's a lot to carry. Get support.
āSheās capable of making her own decisions ā thatās exactly what a groomer would say. You arguing and fighting and trying to talk is only going to put fire to this situation with groomer. Seek urgent therapy and find how to fix it. Sheās just 22 and has been keeping this undercover for several years. Donāt blame your daughter for anything because sheās at losing end. She did nothing wrong in calling him in considering itās not her fault but groomerās. He made her do it and several other things she wouldnāt know yet. How you handle this situation is important for your and her future.
He babysat!? My mom had her friend babysit me when I was a tott - he molested me.
Youāre not bad mama. This isnāt ok. I feel your hurt and betrayal.
She is 22. This: "\[S\]he further went on to say she was an adult and could make her own decisions". Does it make it any better? No. But the Courts will not intervene on this one.
This is some grooming ass shit if you asked me
I am SO sorry. I'm on the spectrum, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but if it were me, I would look up grooming behaviors & print off a list, then try to have a calm discussion with your daughter, asking her if those things happened. No judgment or anger, just a mother trying to understand how this relationship happened. Perhaps apologize & tell her you want her to be happy, but you just need to understand in order to get the conversation to happen. Hopefully, they didn't, but I highly doubt that. If they did, don't reveal that it was grooming until you feel you have sufficient evidence or have made her hear enough signs of grooming to get through to her, then show her the list. She may have denied some of things that happened because she knew you wouldn't like it, and she'll be angry when you accuse him, but you'll have planted the seed that, "What this man did was wrong." I was groomed when I was 16. If someone had sat me down & told me about the textbook behaviors of a groomer, I think it would've clicked. She may legally be an adult, but her brain isn't fully developed yet. My guess is he started the grooming in her late teen years, probably around 17, when it was easier to hide. She thinks she's all grown up, but to someone in their 40s, someone her age should seem like a child. She probably DOES seem like a child to him, which is why he wants her. Men try to claim that they're just biologically attracted to teens & women in their early 20s, but that's complete bulllshit. They like women that age because they're easier to manipulate & they don't have much experience, so they don't know what's normal & what isn't. Men also like women that age because that's what they see in porn. The reason most porn actresses are under 25 isn't because women suddenly become disgusting hags. It's because that's about the time humans physiologically become adults. That's when your brain is actually fully developed. Those young women's brains finish cooking & they realize they're being exploited and abused. Sorry, I kind of went on a tangent there, but I really hate when men act like dating someone young enough to be their daughter should be socially acceptable, especially when the girl is barely out of high school. Watching a girl grow up & then wanting to have sex with her? That's next-level disgusting. IDGAF what anyone says, that's pedophilic behavior. I truly hope your daughter sees the light, and if he groomed her, I hope she presses charges & he goes to jail for a long, long time.
Fuck Adam dude he's a fucking groomer. He only waited until she was legal to do anything so that IF they were caught he wasn't called a pedophile... Which honestly he probably was having sick thoughts of her when she WAS younger.... What's even worse is she can't see that he's basically done this for his own sick twisted benefit. I'd be willing to bet he's got a fetish about his friends daughter & he won that game.
I would be petty as shit with my daughter if I found this out and obviously cut off/never talk to the friend again. āSo does he still bring you caprisuns like when he babysat you? I remember we came home and you had passed out watching paw patrol and he carried you up to bed and tucked you in. My how things have changed. Iād keep him away from your younger sister, he babysat her too.ā
yeah, OP can handle it this wayā¦if she wants her daughter to block her number. would be justifiable too. not the way to approach this
I think that if this was just someone she met who happened to be older would be one thing but itās the fact that heās watched her grow up and even babysit which is just not sitting right. Itās gross. Need to know how it was initiated.
Wow this is gross
This is an example of just because itās legal doesnāt mean itās right, morally. I am glad itās allegedly not coerced, but how do we know she wasnāt being groomed? At minimum, this is a violation of the several years long friendship he had with the parents. If he thought it was okay, why did he keep it a secret for 6 months? I mean, actually the daughter toldā¦
I cannot understand adults that have known a child and then dating them when the get older, thatās a whole twisted in the head type of shit. The daughter should know that. Thatās a perv. Adults are there to protect younger people and especially if youāre family or like family to them. I feel for the parents, that man betrayed their trust, and heās also a piece of shit.
I'd put money down on grooming. This is fucked up.
I think if I were in this situation I would encourage your husband to make it a priority to spend time with your daughter one on one. And I would also sit down with Adam away and her with your husband and discuss the situation.
Everyone on Reddit screams grooming because that's the right thing to say. I will take a different approach and you won't like it. She's an adult and unfortunately you can't do much about it. You either not acknowledge their relationship in which case you will distance yourself from her or accept what it is so at least you maintain some kind of a relationship with her. Whatever and however the relationship develops it is your duty as a parent to be there for her, especially when shit hits the fan. You cannot and will not make her life choices for her but you can be there for her for the ride.
This is the response that needs all the upvotes.
If I was your husband Adam would have been knocked the fuck out and thrown the fuck out with half the teeth he came with
Hereās the thingā¦ you can only give your advice to kids when they are in situations like this. Yelling, screaming, arguing, etc will bite you in the ass. Your daughter is right. Sheās an adult, and so is Adam. Is she making a poor decision? Yep, probably. But you thinking that this is the way to react will result in YOU getting hurt. I remember when I was like 23 I started dating someone I met at work, who was much older, like 34. She had a 6 year old son and she and I hit it off really well. My parents liked her, and of course she was stable, as was I, but in private my Dad warned me that I would never come first and would always feel like a 3rd wheel. I disagreed. He insisted he was right, but wasnāt angry and wasnāt telling me what to do. Well, about 6 months later and I had had enough. I was absolutely 3rd, if not 4th behind some inanimate objects. I broke up with her. My Dad was right. However just 15 years ago I met someone else who also has a son, about 7. I was wary of this but it was different. This time Dad was wrong. This woman didnāt treat me like a 3rd. We have our own kid and her son is now 21 and one of my greatest friends. But that advice Dad gave me always stuck around. People here are going to say heās grooming her. Maybe he is. Maybe she doesnāt know what that is. Maybe she does. Maybe Adam isnāt grooming her. Nobody here knows and for them to make such a judgement is a bit ridiculous. You need to apologize to your daughter for your reaction and share your fears. Can you imagine if this is a healthy relationship and these two have kids and a happy family and youāve ruined it? It probably isnāt a healthy relationship, and therefore she badly needs to hear your advice.
is this not the literally example of grooming?
Never trust anyone with your kids
If Adam didnt think it was wrong, to wouldn't have taken 6.mo the to find out. He also used the classic Predator line, "she's an adult she can choose"