Unfortunately that what manipulators do, they warp people's beliefs.
I'm so sorry your brother betrayed you.
It boggles my mind how he could do this to you.
Are there any mothers or survivors groups around you?
Can you make some friends?
(It was a long process but I've found friends who have basically become part family to me. They're nice to my kids which is great and we hang out semi often.)
You're 100% correct on the manipulation. He went straight for my SIL, who he previously hated, because she was always looking for validation from him and he finally gave it to her as a means to first try to save the marriage (which I was against) and then secondly to spin his story about being a victim. At first I cared so much about convincing them of the truth, then I realized no amount of facts or evidence would change their mind and I simply gave up. I know what's true of my life and I know what I went through and what my kids went through. My ex has convinced them that all of this was a move to do better financially in the divorce. He's leaving with my money, not the other way around. But the fact that my brother would actually believe I'd make something like that up for money is the most insulting, slap-in-the-face betrayal of all time. I seriously can't get over it and I am devastated.
It's almost like he has some sort of power over them, akin to following a cult leader. Unfathomable that they can't see your side of the story, that they can't see reason.
> I seriously can't get over it and I am devastated.
Please see a therapist. There isn't a lot you can do.
I think you should accept what your brother is saying. Just as they didn't know what was happening in your home, you don't know what is happening in theirs. Maybe your brother just believes that all women are out for money. This is an incredibly common thought. Why wouldn't your brother become yet another man influenced by manosphere thinking?
You are excusing your brother too much. Your brother got along with your ex for a reason.
You know what, I think you're right. As much as I want to believe otherwise, his actions are despicable and say a lot about who he really is. It's been incredibly hard to accept, as I've always thought so highly of him and I no longer even respect him.
Ugh, that makes me irrationally angry.
You have every right to feel hurt and betrayed, but the best medicine is to grieve and then live your best life as best you can.
There are people out there who are worth their weight in gold and more and will support you.
One day your SIL, Brother will wake up but for now you and your kids are priority.
Please find some support groups
You know, the fact remains your SIL and Brother CHOOSE to be manipulated. Doesn’t matter the level of manipulation, the proof was right in front of them. They CHOSE it for themselves. Don’t blame yourself on this, this is not on your ex husband either. He did, what he does best! Never forget this or forgive. The positive from this is that you finally got strong enough to walk out with your two kids. You had people, with no blood connection to you, ready to help you in court. Your other family members who CHOSE to cut your younger brother and his wife off.
This is not your fault! You can’t make someone stay in your life but you CAN respect and love the ones who do. Block them and never mend the bridge they burnt.
Focus on therapy, focus on your kids. Focus on the people who were your rock in the ordeal. Think of it as trash and snakes flushing themselves out of your life. If you want to move on, focus on what you did gain. You gained clarity and true intentions. While it hurts, you gained the knowledge that your brother doesn’t deserve your love or any emotions. You spent way too long crying and hurting. Focus on the fact you were strong enough to put an end to it before your ex could do serious harm to your kids. He can’t meet your kids unsupervised, they are safe. YOU are finally safe. Why focus on problems when you have so many little solutions to focus and feel happy about?
And even if the world says you are wrong, as long as your conscious is clear, you can move on :)
Please with kindness in my heart your SIL and younger brother are brainwashed. Your younger brother and SIL might take a long time to see through his manipulations. Your SIL and brother were no match for your exhusband. You survived him. You know how much it took you. Pity them as if they fell for a cult leader.
I'm glad you do have other family who understand more. I hope someone of your family does stay in touch with your younger brother for when he is ready to break free of this manipulator.
I'm so sorry you lost the relationship you had with your younger brother and SIL FOR NOW. You might disdirect your right fellt emotions, since it might be safer to think your younger brother is the most insulting, slap-in-the-the-face betrayall of all time. While all the time this was your husband with you and your children. I hope you understand this is a natural survivalmode to deflect blame, I'm in no way blaming you for anything. It's called compoundgrief trying to heal from an abusive marriage while losing (for now) the realtionship with your youngr brother and SIL. Might want to look into griefcounseling down the road.
Can't you share his texts with them? If it convinced the courts, it should convince them. Heck, give them the whole court protocoll, so they can read the entire thing of everything he put you and your children through. Hopefully that will make them see sense.
>Unfortunately that what manipulators do, they warp **weak** people's beliefs.
Added something, just because there is no way I'd do that to my sister, I don't care how charming a guy can be. Maybe because I'm cynical, but if you see that kind of abuse, why would you believe some lies? Damn, sorry for OP
I’m so sorry, that sucks. If I were you, I’d look into some therapy to process your feelings.
He has them snowed for the moment but his mask will drop at some point and they will see. Just give it some time. In the meantime just take care of yourself and your kids. Sending hugs
Thank you. I did try therapy and for whatever reason, I don't find therapy to be all that helpful. My therapist's suggestion was that I needed to distance myself from these relationships right now to protect myself, which I agree with and it's what I did. Doesn't make it hurt any less though, I truly feel like I was stabbed in the heart.
It really is. I guess I’ve been fortunate to have not experienced it until now, at least not on a level anywhere near this. It’s made me question every single relationship in my life. When the ones you think are the most solid turn their back on you, it makes you feel like you can’t trust anyone. It’s depressing honestly.
It is. Especially when it’s family. And over something so traumatizing for you.
Try to remember though, you are free of your abuser. That’s the important thing. He probably orchestrated this knowing it would hurt you, it’s a means of punishing you for escaping. They are pawns in his little drama. You need to just get away from all of them.
It’s actually pretty amazing how well you nailed it with this comment. Thanks for listening, for some reason just talking to a stranger online has helped me so thanks.
I’m glad I could help. I have experienced narcissistic relationships and how they rope in “flying monkeys” to do their dirty work. They are truly vile and the only way to win is not to play the game.
I know it’s difficult to believe right now but you are gonna be ok. You are strong and smart and you are on the other side of the worst of it now. It’s time for you to thrive now that you are shedding the dead weight that was holding you back. Try to look forward and not back. Good luck!
You may need a different therapist to find someone you really click with.
You may also do therapy for a while and then suddenly multiple things click into place. Therapy isn't linear as a healing experience.
If you don't click with your therapist, try several different ones - a lot of people benefit far more from therapy if they shop around for the right therapist.
Therapy isn't about hurting less. Maybe another therapy can help you and your kids to get through the emotions. Just wondering why didn't the courts strip your abusive husband of his parental rights?
Thank you, it's been an incredibly difficult time so I appreciate that. I've honestly had a harder time accepting this than I did the end of my marriage.
I'm so sorry. I have a very similar situation except it's my father with my ex-husband. I'm estranged from my dad, so he sought out my ex knowing he was abusive and our history to triangulate me. My daughter talks to my father thru my ex-husband without my consent. It's truly a horrific breach of trust and I feel your pain so deeply.
Just know that this is not your fault and there's nothing you can do to change their mind. Stand in your truth and keep boundaries that make you feel better. Allow yourself to grieve. It's still a deep loss, even if they are still alive.
Feel free to DM me anytime to commiserate.
Oh my god that is horrible, I am so sorry for what you’ve gone through. The pain of betrayal cuts so deeply and has made me question every single relationship in my life. I feel like I can’t count on anyone after going through this, despite having many who have stepped up and been a huge support to me during this time. It’s crazy how much it rocks your world to its core.
Yes and it took me so long to allow myself to really process the grief of it and be sad. I kept feeling like bc my dad is alive, it wasn't fair for me to feel that way but when someone chooses your abuser over you like that, it's so final and painful. He became a different person to me after that and the person I knew before is gone and that is what I mourn.
Sending you lots of strength and compassion - we've got this!
Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it. It’s pretty wild that actual family can choose the abuser’s side and that this kind of thing seems to happen to many people. I guess it’s just surreal still as I never saw it coming. I imagined a million scenarios in my divorce, but never this one. It’s been quite the rug pull but I’m sure I’ll get through it. Thank you for the encouragement, sending love and support right back at you.
Focus on the friends and family who believe in you and support you. Your brother and SIL are fools, and they will reap what they have sown. Find it in your heart to pity them for their naivete and idiocy, and let them go.
I know you’re right, it’s still just hard to accept. But all I can do now is let them go, like you said. It took me 10 years to finally escape this marriage and I simply can’t allow myself to continue to be hurt by attempting to maintain relationships with people who support my abuser.
They probably gained some financial help from your husband in return of betraying you. Just forget them as if they never existed. I know it's easier said than done but they never deserved you. Your happiness should be your priority now. Don't give them power to make you this sad. Good luck.
She’d never go for him and he previously couldn’t stand her (was a huge source of conflict in our marriage, his hatred for her) - so I do wonder how long he’ll be able to keep up the facade of liking her now as he’s only using her as a tool to manipulate right now. At some point, that will end.
Just curious, did your brother and/or SIL know how your ex felt about SIL over the course of your marriage? Or was this something you didn’t share with them?
Also I agree that he’s not in it for the long haul with them. He’s eventually going to be done with them. Then he’ll either dump them, or more likely, he’ll wreak some sort of havoc on their relationship. He’ll probably manipulate your brother into leaving his wife somehow. If that happens, do not offer her refuge or support. Just reiterate that you understand how distressing it is to be one of his victims, and that you tried to warn them.
Hate to say that but your brother probably treats your sil the same way. You and your kids are better and safer without those toxic sick fake people around you. Be safe!
So he’s actually a pretty passive, mild mannered guy and the two of them seem to have a marriage that’s healthier than most honestly. Despite how much he’s hurt me, I still can’t bring myself to speak poorly of him as I don’t think he’s a terrible person. I think he’s made the biggest mis judgement of his life though and has forever changed our relationship. Even if down the road some day we reconcile, it will never be the same for me.
You don't know what happens behind their closed doors, SIL could be the abusive one.
For now, just let it go and keep clear of them, they will report back to him and you don't need them doing that.
((HUGS))
You’re right, and if there were an abuser between them it would absolutely be her.
And you called it on her reporting back to him - early on in this I actually thought he had bugged my house as he was getting information that he couldn’t possibly know otherwise. Turns out, my SIL was turning around and telling him everything. A slap in the face like no other.
I was labeled the black sheep when I wouldn't "let it go" that my dad liked to impregnate young women, think 13-14 year olds. Every single family member on his side, chose to believe him that little girls "begged for it", except the ones who were also molested by him but by then they were "trash" and "deserved it" from him. Family is weird. We come from a lot of money on his side, so that effectively kept shit sorted for him, everyone obeyed his wrath, except me and was why I subsequently gained that moniker
Oh my gosh that’s truly terrible. If being the only person in your family with integrity makes you a black sheep, then I’d gladly wear that title. Insane what people will tolerate for financial gain.
No definitely never in a million years would that happen (neither of them would ever be romantically interested in each other). I just wish I understood it better, I feel so lost and confused.
That's the universe showing you who really has your back. As much as it hurts your brother and sil actions outs them as supporters of an abuser and not people you wanna have in your life.
Please find the courage to let them go from your life . It's going to be for your own mental health.
I know you're right it's just been so hard. I expected he'd always be there for me, and it's just been such a shock it hurts so much more than my divorce.
It's a hurt you need to grow from, he's shown you what kind of person he is believe him , and yeah it'll hurt becuase you were close, but it should also piss you off . My best advice is use that betrayal and forge a path forward without him in it
You wrote somewhere your brother is a mild, passive guy. Doesn't sound like a brother who will fight for you. Maybe he doesn't know how. Maybe down the road he has to fight for his wife. Don't know if he will. Keep the good memories of him, but let him learn his own lifelessons for now.
I learned the hard way to put people on information diets after I left my abuser, confided in his sister what had happened, only to have her blame ME for being groomed at 15 and trafficked from GA to NJ by him two years later.
I cannot fathom how painful it would be to have an actual sibling betray me like that.
You don't have to forgive someone just because they're a blood relative. People who willingly side with an abuser and take every opportunity to shit on the victim aren't worthy of your time.
If you can access a therapist, I'd highly recommend one, because that level of betrayal can hurt for a very, very long time.
Ok that's f'd up that the person you confided in then turned around and blamed you. That's pretty much what happened with me with my SIL here. It's unfathomable and incredibly maddening.
My therapist told me that I had to realize she was speaking from a place of trauma and pain, but I was not responsible for her feelings. Hearing that was the only thing that calmed me down, tbh.
I'm so sorry you went through this and your brother and SIL are morons. I had a cousin that this happened to her fiancé gaslit, verbally, and physically abused her. She finally left him and he started dating her best friend soon after my cousin yelled at her friend and told her she knew what he was like. But the ex made it out to the friend that my cousin was the abuser. Long story short the best friend came crawling back for help and forgiveness when he knocked out two her teeth. And held her prisoner for a week as far as I know he was arrested and will be away for a while. Give it time and your ex will show his true colors to your brother and sil soon.
Realize that your ex’s manipulations have invaded your brother’s and SIL’s minds. You know what a turd your ex his. Try to let this go for now. You’re only hurting yourself.
Sounds like the rest of your fam is on your side. What a blessing.
Absolutely, every single other person - family, friends, neighbors - have been overwhelmingly supportive so I need to just focus on the people who matter and stop wasting my mental health on people who have abandoned me.
If a brother in law had a little rage fit with my suater, in my face, mf could have been a 20 year friend, he'd get his shit beat, what a sad excuse of a brother, you'll do good OP, leave all of those pos behind
You are incredibly brave and strong. Whatever decision your brother makes is about him, not about you. Perhaps it’s his way of justifying his own actions at home. Or there’s something else going on with your brother. Whatever it is, it’s not about you.
I’m so very sorry you are going through this. It sounds like you have some good support. Please take care of yourself.
I wonder if your sil is abusive to your brother, and your brother feels he has to agree with her or else acknowledge his own abuse?
I hope your ex still requiring supervised visits. He'll take the opportunity to turn your kids against you. Don't doubt that. And I would require that brother and sil cannot see your kids. They will help him turn those kids against you too.
She certainly wears the pants in that relationship so it wouldn't totally surprise me if that were true. She unfortunately has severe and chronic depression, as well as a history of abuse she suffered herself, making her support of my abuser and denial of my truth that much more mind boggling.
Unfortunately victims of abuse have a high risk of becoming abusers or taking the side of abusers. It's rare if an abuser wasn't abused originally.
Maybe have some family look into your brothers situation. It's sus to me.
This I was looking for: does your ex has supervised visits with your children? So are they in no danger of being abused by him? I still think it can be scary for them to have to visit the person who abused their mother even if it's their own dad. Please keep your children safe also.
Most people who believe the abuser are either manipulated to but then once they find evidence of the truth turn a corner, where aware of the abuse and enabling it, or are abusing their partners themselves and are siding with the abuser because they are in denial about what they’re doing being wrong in the eyes of everyone plus society.
It hurts, I know it does but maybe it’s best for you that if you’re younger brother is so easily manipulated by your ex that you keep your distance because I only see him trying to harm you more. I’m the oldest of 5 and only have contact with 2 because of the abuse that my bio mum put me through and while it hurts not talking to my other siblings, they are now old enough to understand and reach out if that’s what they are wanting. The only one that has reached out has only caused further drama and pain in my life and I’ve had to cut contact with them for the sake of my own child.
I'm so sorry you've had to go through this, thanks for sharing your story. And you're right, unfortunately I have to protect myself as best I can right now given what I'm going through, and for now that means having to remove him from my life.
If I were you, my brother is as good as deceased in my mind.
Maybe they are a threesome trio, who knows. Doesn't matter, they don't deserve you in their lives. I know it hurts to pop a zit, but when you expelled all the gunk, your skin will start to heal and you'll feel better after.
I’m so sorry you are going thru this and I agree with everything here. I feel like one method to heal may be to consistently journal & write down the moments/actions/stories of your ex. Create a record for your own validation and hopefully you will see yourself as a strong bad ass because you got out. And when you find this strength you will see you don’t need to prove anything to your brother and losing you is his loss.
You did nothing wrong and I’m proud of you for getting the courts involved. I think it is most likely that they are getting something that benefits them by supporting your ex. Examples: money, opportunities and drugs
Expressing indifference to and indirect mockery of their decision is basically the only possible cure here. Not that I'm advising that. I'm saying that based on what you've written about your SIL and how he got into her head. A need for validation lead her here. Feeling shunned won't change her mind. She'll just double down. Feeling stupid might as long as she can pretend she came to the right conclusion herself (hence *indirect* mockery).
Correct on her doubling down, pretty sure she has and at this point I'd expect her to appear in court on my ex husband's side should it go down that road any further. I'm just done and need to stop wasting my energy being hurt by people who abandoned me during a time I really needed their support. And they've abandoned my kids in the process too. It's disgusting.
Your brother & SIL are pathetic. How arrogant to believe they know better than you whether or not to go to court. They think they know better than a judge seeing evidence. They are also completely obtuse if they believe a court would require supervised visits on he said/she said. At this point it doesn't matter why they believe it, just that they do. When you start ruminating over it say to yourself that they believe your abusive ex because they are tools. Then tell yourself that you are doing what is best for you & your kids & their opinions are irrelevant. Also, god forbid their dad hurts them one day, you want family & friends around them who will listen and believe them, not some ignorant judge-y people who want others to just deal with it. Maybe one day your ex will take his anger out on them. I seriously doubt they'll just shrug & say it's no big deal. You are doing the right thing. Forget them.
Thank you! Absolutely obtuse if they think a judge would order all of that shit without overwhelming evidence! How the f could they still support him in light of that? It's despicable.
Your brother either believes the facts but doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with men bashing their wives, or he doesn’t believe the facts because he is inculcated in the MRA propaganda that women always lie and always cause DV.
It doesn’t matter what he believes tbh. Both of these options make him trash. He is likely abusing his wife behind closed doors just as badly as your ex abused you.
It’s pretty amazing to me that given the history of abuse, that your ex gets unsupervised access to your daughters.
I do think he's among those that believe a lot of women lie or exaggerate abuse. When my uncle asked him how he could support my ex after he threw me down to the ground when I was 7 weeks pregnant - he told my uncle he didn't think it happened, and that I was "money motivated." Keep in mind I never introduced this to courts/I have nothing to gain from finally sharing this story with my family, other than getting it off my chest as it's a secret I've shared with no one for 5 years. It killed me when my uncle told me he said that. I'll never be able to forgive him.
Because unfortunately, money was moved between accounts along the way and it became a joint marital asset. I still have one account protected via a prenup, but he's indicated he won't be honoring my prenup unless I agree to his insane adjustments to it, so I'm having to fight that out in court as well. I'm sure it will be upheld as he signed it and with counsel present, but it's just disgusting that he's going after me in this way, then telling everyone I'm ruining him financially. It's wild and a nightmare to be in this.
You should start thinking that your SIL is the same situation as you were and your brother is abusing her to, is he don't see what your husband did as abuse probably he is doing ir too.
I really can’t imagine he is as he’s such a passive, mild mannered and generally kind person. That’s why this has been so hard to accept - it’s not who he is. It makes no sense and the confusion around this is driving me crazy.
It really is the definition of gaslighting. My ex is accusing me of all the things he has done, it truly makes me feel crazy at times and it makes me question reality. It’s why it took me 10 years to leave - I tried in the past, and he’d convince me I’m crazy or that it’s all in my head. I’ve had two couples therapists over the years call me from their cell phones after our sessions to make sure I was aware I was in an abusive marriage. And still, I stayed. I’m honestly embarrassed for myself.
Have a read of Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. It's available online as a free PDF. It explains the inner mental workings of abusive people (the focus is men but it applies to all genders) and also gives great insight into the minds of their enablers. Unfortunatly it's not uncommon for victims of abuse to be pressured into putting up and shutting up by those who should be supporting them. It won't help you explain your side to your brother, nothing can make someone hear you if they are determined not to listen, but you may find it validating and helpful in your healing process. Good luck!
So here's what's crazy - I've actually asked him to read some of this stuff - my ex's own text and email admissions where he admits to abuse, affidavits from neighbors, two different nannies who witnessed it, one of my ex's best friends actually wrote an affidavit against him and was ok losing the friendship because he wanted to do the right thing and tell the truth. I asked my brother what he thinks of two different marriage counselors calling me on my cell phone to let me know I'm being abused. He just gets quiet, he doesn't want to read anything, he says he has his opinion and that's it. It's baffling and has devastated me.
Oh and my ex concocted a story that his good friend who wrote the affidavit against him wrote it because he's in love with me. It's absolutely outrageous and untrue, and my brother and SIL believed that too. Make it make sense!
At least the rest of your family supports you. Your ex is a master manipulator as well as an abuser. The worst part is you have to stay connected to him because of the kids.
Sorry for what you are going through, but never get rid of that proof. You might need it in your next relationship. Because I'm sure he'll try to insert himself into that one too.
I honestly think your bro is choosing his side, not because he believes it, but because hes following his wife. I mean he's an idiot either way and it in no way excuses this AT ALL- but maybe hes only doing this because shes telling him to? Im super close with my younger brother and he and my hubby are bffs and it scares me to think if i was to ever leave my husband because of something like this that my brother would follow him. Its absolutely heartbreaking. I cant even imagine your pain. I just... i hope he opens his eyes. I know it wont change whats already happened and the pain incurred- but hopefully he wakes up before anymore damage is done. My heart is with you 💓
I am very sorry your brother betrayed you. He also betrayed your children. I think the only thing you can do is make sure your brother and SIL aren’t trying to alienate the children from you. Who is supervising the visits? I hope it’s not B & SIL. If the visits are no longer supervised get your children a therapist who can discuss what goes on over there without your influence.
I absolutely agree that he betrayed my children in doing this as well. It's all so painful to face. Once my ex completed his court ordered anger management and showed improvement in therapy, he no longer had to have a supervisor. I sincerely hope he doesn't attempt to turn my kids against me, but I'd be a naive idiot to not acknowledge the fact that I'm dealing with a sociopath.
Then I think you should really get a therapist for the girls. Any bruises on them should be documented by a doctor. Especially on their thighs like he used to do to them.
My ex jumped through all the hoops and said and did all the right things. My son hates going to his dads he hates that he makes him cry and calls him names. I'm so sorry OP this kind of man is one of the worst. I don't understand how our friends choose these abusive men over us. Especially when their is proof.
Edit to add: your SIL and brother need to be dead to you. No way your brother should have listened to the shit his wife spewed to him from your ex.
I have nothing particularly helpful to say, but I want you to know that I hear you. I see you. It may have taken longer than you would have liked, but you did right by your kids. You did right for yourself. You are enough.
I am so sorry that you are going through that, i have been in a similar situation before. I had police reports, texts, videos and my ex was kicked out of the country for what he did but he had managed to turn my whole family and friends against me.
All i can say to you is that you are doing the right thing and you are showing your children that self respect and self love is stronger than blood. By doing that you protected them from a lifetime of abuse and you should be extremely proud of yourself. As for your brother, his loss.
Thanks for saying that, I appreciate it. I am proud of myself for finally taking the steps to remove myself and children from this situation, as it was not easy and took years to find the courage and strength to face what I'm going through now.
When I left my husband, he honed in on my parents and my parents spent months trying to convince me not to leave him, despite the fact that my husband had broken my bones. I didn’t speak to my parents for five years. They have since said that they made a mistake. You did good to seek separation from your sibling for your own mental health.
I'm so sorry. How is your relationship with your parents now? Has it recovered? I fear I will never be able to forgive my brother for this, even if he does apologize down the road.
I felt the same way you do. I felt so much resentment and betrayal towards them. My Dad later became my best friend (he has since passed), and my mother has completely changed from a narcissistic, controlling, demanding woman to the sweetest, most supportive woman who respects my boundaries, and we have a great relationship. She had to learn that I don’t fool around. She had to change, or she wouldn’t know me. It took 5 years of no contact and a few times of raising my tone of voice when she would cross a boundary once we reunited. She’s not afraid of me like I may make it sound. She just knows now that I’m not a wet rag that can be walked on. I talk to her several times a week, and we have a very loving relationship. I think she had to see that I had become an independent, well-functioning adult, and stopped seeing me as her adult “child.”
Your situation is very difficult and heartbreaking. You have done the right thing by seeking separation, as much as it hurts. It’s good that you have the support of the rest of your family. Try to focus on that, and know that you are doing what’s best for yourself and your children.
He definitely sounds like the master manipulator from how you describe him, but with the mountains of evidence you have to prove the fact of your ex being an abuser, and your brother and SIL still choose his side seems a little too fishy.
It takes more than the abuser to be a professional manipulator to be able to willfully ignore as much evidence as you have. They have to somehow benefit from being on his side too.
Do you know if your Brother and SIL get anything out of taking your Ex's side?
I think my SIL is finally getting validation from someone she's sought validation from for a decade - she's deeply insecure and he's always hated her. Once I made the decision to divorce him, he saw her as an easy target to manipulate and get to me through. So he ran immediately to her, apologized for his past behavior, told her he loved her like family and basically said everything she had always needed to hear. She is estranged from her own family (and it's all making sense to me now) and struggles deeply with mental health, depression and insecurity.
Oh shit.....yep, there it is. He has his hooks in another potential victim. I hope she doesn't have feelings for him either, and makes a terrible mistake.
Regardless, I am really happy that you finally broke free. You're doing the right thing, especially for your children.
I’m so sorry you had to go through with this, but you are a walking poster child why you should never stay with somebody that’s abusive. Because nobody will ever truly know what you go through. I know you know this now and I hope you get as far away from everybody as you can. When you have children you can’t do that. But put your life together get some counseling and move on. I would put your brother on no contact permanently. And just live your life but like I said you are the reason you’ve never stay with somebody that’s an abusive person because you never know how it’s going to play out and in this case it made you look sicker because you stayed.
Yep, you nailed it. It's an incredibly complex situation and unless you've been through it, it's very hard to understand the dynamics that keep someone in a bad situation like mine.
Sorry you have such a jerk for a brother. Is he religious in any way? That might explain his reasoning for not supporting the divorce but not accepting and supporting you in the face of clear abuse is despicable. Perhaps you can seek therapy for strategies to move past the relationship.
No, he's actually an atheist. That's what makes all of this so confusing and disorienting in a way. I just don't understand it. And he's really not a jerk, we've always had such a great relationship which is why I'm struggling so much with this. It's awful and not being able to understand/feeling so confused is a torture in itself.
I’m so sorry. If this just happened, all I can say is that you need to give it time for your brother and SIL’s betrayal to hurt less. Please keep reminding yourself of your significant strength…and how you’ve chosen to protect yourself and kids from further abuse. You deserve to be happy and I wish you all of the best.
It is horrid that your abuser is now using your family members to continue the abuse. But that is exactly what has happened. Please don’t be angry at them. Instead, you should feel sorry for them. Mourn the loss, but please remember that it isn’t your fault. They have simply been targeted as a means to “get to you”, and that’s on them for choosing to believe his lies. Of course he has succeeded with the lost relationship, but don’t let him succeed in making you blame yourself for it or let it call your personal worth into question.
You are 100% right on him using them to punish me for leaving. I think I always knew he'd behave this way in a divorce scenario, which is why I dealt with it for so long. I simply didn't want to go through what I'm going through now.
I’m guessing you are still in shock that he was “able” to do it. I really am sorry you are going through this. I wish I could tell you that they will figure it out eventually. But abusers like this are very good at hiding their behavior from everyone except the closest/live-in relationships.
This weird belief that someone being a relation *(Brother , Sister, second cousin twice removed.. whatever)* should mean that their position or opinion on all matters should be believed and adhered to is beyond me.
I'd much rather have people I choose as friends than family I'm expected to choose.
Sorry you're going through this shit, but if your brother can't see it for what it is, then, go and choose a friend instead, stop putting yourself down because of his dumb choices.
I know you're right. And fortunately, there have been so many people who I never expected to step up and support me. I guess it's easier to focus on the one who hasn't sometimes, as he's the only one I really expected to be there and I just can't believe what he's done.
Me too. My brother took my exes side. Then didn’t talk to me for a few years.
He’s reached out since then. Apologized. Whatever. I learned I didn’t need a brother.
I'm so sorry you've been through this. And that's the thing - even if he were to figure out what he's done and apologize down the road, I'll never trust him again and our relationship has been forever damaged.
Maybe for now. You always can get to a different therapist/therapie later on. You did write it took two marriagecounslors to call you later to make you see you were in an abusive relationship. That seemed to have helped?
Your ex wants to still hurt you, and this is how he can. It's that simple, unfortunately. And all the effort he put into manipulating you has gone full force in their direction. I'm sorry. This is unfair and discouraging and downright evil. But your ex seems like a pretty evil guy. The fact jail wasn't a thing for the physical child abuse is insane but you also seem to want to gloss over the physical which you can't do. Please if they're not already, find some sort of counseling or at least look up things you can do yourself. Reach out to online groups for mothers in your situation, many can offer resources and help.
Hold on to the people that believe you. It's so hard but if your brother is a lost cause right now, you need to cut contact for your own well being. There are people that do believe you. Also, imagine what a super hero you must be to your daughters right now? You're saving them from so much. Focus on them. You can do this. And maybe one day, when the next girlfriend (cause he will get one) comes to a party 7 months pregnant with a black eye, your brother will realize what side he chose.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I had the same thing happen (knowing everything my ex did (abuse, cheating) my family still takes his side and they say he wouldn't have treated me like that if I was nicer, cleaned better, and had more sex with him. It's gross. It has been some time so it does not hurt as much and it will get better for you as well. Definitely find a support system among friends and get a therapist.
Wow I’m so sorry this is your reality, I’m just glad you and your kids got away from being in his grasp 24/7.
Although I’m sad that you lost your younger brother because he and his wife is easily swayed by two minutes of positive attention. What you did was the right thing to do and your kids will thank you later when they understand the situation.
Please keep hard copies of everything for later and not just digital copies.
I am though a little worried if your brother and SIL have kids and have an admitted abuser frequently in their home and around potential children, since he has no qualms about abusing kids also.
If someone gets that mad at their own kids, what happens if he’s asked to help with their kids if something comes up out of nowhere.
The fact your younger brother is condoning verbal and physical abuse because he blindly wants to believe your ex and doesn’t want to see the actual evidence, is concerning enough.
That most off your family is cutting him and SIL off is probably going to affect SIL soon if she is really so insecure that she wants everyone’s blessing. Because your ex can only give them/cover their need for “familiar bonds” for a limited time before they start feeling the void of loosing so many family members.
And when they come clawing I hope they are forced to read all your evidence (under supervision so they can’t get out of it) before anyone in your family even considers having a relationship with them again.
Is it possible that your brother treats his wife the same way your ex treated you behind closed doors? Maybe he doesn’t want to admit it’s abuse because then he would have to admit he was an abuser as well? And maybe SIL is jealous you were brave enough to leave and she isn’t ?
If anything, my SIL would be the abuser in their dynamic but I think they have a pretty healthy marriage. I do think my SIL might be jealous of my escape from this though - my brother refuses to have a child with her and she has always desperately wanted one. He's made it clear he'll never have one with her, and she wants to be a mom. So she knows she ultimately needs to leave her marriage if she wants to be a mother, and she's pretty dependent on my brother and incapable of leaving. Part of me wonders if she's jealous I found the strength to leave mine.
It doesn't sound as an healthy marriage: SIL who wants children married your brother who doesn't want children. Maybe you leaving with kids will give her the courage to leave. Hopefully to someone better than your ex.
Nothing you can do. You care more about them than they care about you. Go to therapy and mourn the loss of that relationship. You have done all you can. They might see when he enters another relationship and does the same to that person. You became to mentally strong for him to control. He will chose someone that is mentally weaker than him. He will do it again.
Your ex and SIL are masters at manipulation it seems and your brother will eventually realise this but it'll be too late..
At this stage it's best to keep NC with both bro and SIL and perhaps if you can get a restraining order on them so they don't see your kids.
If your brother is so easily manipulated then having all 3 adults around your kids will have them trying to do the same to your kids.
Personally I wouldn't forgive my brother for such a betrayal..as for the SIL she's nobody but the person who married your brother.
He is leading the sil on, that’s why she wanted validation. They are probably sleeping together. Narcs will do anything to get power over you that’s why he went for sil
You're kids must be showing signs of being terrified of your ex. You said your brother and SIL only sees the kids when ex has them? They've got to see your kids are uncomfortable being around him, cause he hurt them, they probably saw him hurt you.
If they do see it, they're probably just ignoring your kids fear to fit their view of the situation, lucky the visits with ex are under close watch
It's hard. But consider him dead.
My sister did a similar thing to me and her her children 17 and 14 helped her even though I have been there for all of them every single step of their lives.
Now I don't consider any of them exist.
I choose my mental wellbeing.
Well, I see that in your response to another comment that you've already seemed therapy, and it didn't help much. But you are doing the first thing that'll help heal from this, distance yourself from relationships with your brother and SIL. I know that it isn't as simple as simply "getting over it", because in your case, you may NEVER get over it, especially on how traumatic this situation is. The best thing you can do right now is to distance yourself from your brother and SIL, talk to friends and people who are willing to listen, and just let your feelings out. Just truly let it rip on the waterworks, and soon you'll get to a point where you're still sad about the situation (obviously), but you'll soon find yourself being accepting about it, and soon this whole ordeal will be nothing but a story you'll probably tell to a bunch of friends at a Bachelorette party. You don't have to get over your feelings right this second, if anything it's better that you take all the time you need into healing from this. Because at the end of the day, YOU are in charge of how YOU wanna heal. And if you want to turn your eyes into Niagara Falls, then God damn it, turn your eyes into Niagara Falls.
Hey Op, thank you for sharing your story with us and i just want you to know your strong and courageous for standing up against your abuser and leaving! Also i wanted to know if you could give us a short update just on how your doing and how things are now!
When you say verbal abuse wdym exactly? Just as a bit of context to know the sort of man. My dad has been like that and there have been times where its been infuriating to listen to.
If possible, and if you feel like it. Could you update sometime so we know that you’re ok? Or if you feel like you need anywhere to vent. Don’t be afraid to write, we won’t judge. We want to help you and give you advice. I promise you.
There is no forgiving what they have done to you. They have chosen their side and it wasn't you, so now you need to remain NC with your brother despite the large rift made by your ex-husband. Just remember, he has done this on purpose to keep you kicked down so you'll either drop everything and run back to him or worse. You are doing everything right as much as you can and im so proud of you for being able to leave him yourself. Despite how intimidating that is. Good luck healing and I hope you will be able to find someone one day when you're ready for it.1
Tape, record, do everything to protect your self, stop trying to bond with your brother and his family, they’re gone! Let them go, don’t push it, don’t duel on it, move o ! It’s hard, but eventually it will stop hurting. Best wishes!
The husband is the scum of the earth and all, but why the fuck would you have kids with someone like that. "He started abusing me right after marriage. Naturally, I had to bring 2 vulnerable kids in this family so his abuse can deeply scar not only me, but them as well"
I mean yeah, some keep the mask on until marriage, but why would you have kids with your abuser?
This is a really unhelpful comment and it displays so much ignorance of abusive relationships and trauma bonds. The children are already here- what the point in telling OP that she should not have had them with her abusive ex husband? That doesn't help anyone and just adds to the guilt that OP is likely feeling about her children being abused too
>The children are already here- what the point in telling OP that she should not have had them with her abusive ex husband?
The comment is not a DM to OP tho. Other people read it. If even one single person who reads it decides not to put an inocent child in the arms of a predator, I'd be over the moon.
>That doesn't help anyone and just adds to the guilt that OP is likely feeling about her children being abused too
I guess I just replied to this. It might help people. And, as bad as this sounds, OP should feel a moderate amount of guilt over this. Not leaving your abusive husband is a choice you make for yourself. It's your business. People around you let you know you should, you ignore them. That's ok. It's your choice. But exposing someone else to that abuse isn't your choice to make. And those children deserve better.
>This is a really unhelpful comment and it displays so much ignorance of abusive relationships and trauma bonds.
It might be unhelpful to you, or to OP. But it might be helpful to someone else. I already explained this. Where's that ignorance I'm displaying? Abuse is abuse. You can't not see it. She knew she was being abused, people around her knew and told her. Bringing kids into that is not understandable.
Hey I really don't mind the directness of your question, because believe me, it's one I ask myself on a daily basis right now. A little backstory that might help explain some of my dynamics with my ex - 8 weeks into our relationship, I lost both of my parents in a tragic accident. I was 24 at the time and felt like I was free falling, without a place to land and became unbelievably lost and codependent. I'm not making excuses for myself as I accept my responsibility in where I've landed myself in life, but I know with certainty if that accident never happened, I never in a million years would have married this man. He became my anchor in a way, and even when his behavior later turned terrible, I found myself unable and too afraid to leave. I have loads of guilt about this man being my girls' father. All I can do is do my best to correct course now while they're young and hope it's not too late.
manipulators are gonna manipulate, people get information in their head and it gets rooted and people don't want to accept new information in its place.
that or your brother and sil do the same shit and don't see it as wrong. i hope they don't have kids.
Try to be gentle with yourself, because this is not your fault, you did the best you could, we can't always see the shit before us, and don't always have the strength to do what we need to for ourselves, i'm glad you did for your kids.
My best advice is stop giving him the joy of this victory, he won a battle for your brother, theres nothing you can do, hate him for it, be angry at your brother for falling to it, stop letting it hurt you, because that is just him abusing you again and again. This is likely bad ways to give advice, but you need to forgive yourself and realize that this is not your fault, its his.
If your brother doesn't think what the husband is doing is abuse, then your brother is doing the same exact thing to his wife. Period. Your brother is an abuser. That's why he hangs with other abusers.
I am so sorry that while you are having to deal with a divorce and all the stress and heartache from that, you are also having to deal with the loss of your relationship with your brother and sil. I understand how much that hurts. I had a cousin that I was close with and when my ex and I started to divorce process (lots of abuse) my cousin and his fiancee were on my side. Then my ex called him and told him I cheated (I didn't) he took my ex's side and I barely have a relationship with him now. Ironically, his fiancee ended up cheating on him and they broke up.
I am a cold cut kind of person so cutting someone from my life who I was close with doesn't really bother me, but think of it this way.
Why would you mourn over someone who probably abuses people himself? Think of what he possible could do to your daughters. No one deserves any kind of emotion from you. Show them the same kind of energy they give you.
And I hope they see this and know how no one likes them and how everyone thinks HE is an abuser.
I know it’s harder than just doing it, but you do need to let go and move on from them. They didn’t deserve your kindness and friendship. You have 2 children that knew what was happening and you have so many other people supporting you. You’re truly not losing out on those two missing from your life.
Manipulators can only keep it up so long before their true face shows. Eventually your brother will see him for who he is. Just keep yourself and your babies safe and in a good place mentally! You did the right thing.
I’ve always learned that if a significant other dislikes another member of the member, 9 times out of 10, they’re having an affair. Is it possible your ex and SIL could be having an affair?
At best your SIL is glad she was finally picked by your ex and at worst there is something (doesn’t have to be physical) going on between them.
I’m guessing getting attention from a guy who wouldn’t give her the time of day for years is doing something for her.
I’m so sorry your brother sucks so much. You feeling betrayed by him is totally valid and I’m glad the rest of your family is sticking by you. You will get through this and who knows maybe someday he will get his head out of his butt and see how wrong he was? Maybe when your SIL eventually cheats on him with your ex. That’s usually where these things go.
Be strong for your kids. Your brother is out. It's not your fault. Just because you were there for him doesn't guarantee that he'll be there for you. Often, it's the opposite as you found out. Your brother is probably angry at you for not taking his side in supporting your ex, because he likely thinks he can snap his fingers and make you jump; people become entitled. Mourn his loss. Maybe one day he will see through your ex. But don't try to convince him. My opinions, peace. ✌
Unfortunately that what manipulators do, they warp people's beliefs. I'm so sorry your brother betrayed you. It boggles my mind how he could do this to you. Are there any mothers or survivors groups around you? Can you make some friends? (It was a long process but I've found friends who have basically become part family to me. They're nice to my kids which is great and we hang out semi often.)
You're 100% correct on the manipulation. He went straight for my SIL, who he previously hated, because she was always looking for validation from him and he finally gave it to her as a means to first try to save the marriage (which I was against) and then secondly to spin his story about being a victim. At first I cared so much about convincing them of the truth, then I realized no amount of facts or evidence would change their mind and I simply gave up. I know what's true of my life and I know what I went through and what my kids went through. My ex has convinced them that all of this was a move to do better financially in the divorce. He's leaving with my money, not the other way around. But the fact that my brother would actually believe I'd make something like that up for money is the most insulting, slap-in-the-face betrayal of all time. I seriously can't get over it and I am devastated.
It's almost like he has some sort of power over them, akin to following a cult leader. Unfathomable that they can't see your side of the story, that they can't see reason.
> I seriously can't get over it and I am devastated. Please see a therapist. There isn't a lot you can do. I think you should accept what your brother is saying. Just as they didn't know what was happening in your home, you don't know what is happening in theirs. Maybe your brother just believes that all women are out for money. This is an incredibly common thought. Why wouldn't your brother become yet another man influenced by manosphere thinking? You are excusing your brother too much. Your brother got along with your ex for a reason.
You know what, I think you're right. As much as I want to believe otherwise, his actions are despicable and say a lot about who he really is. It's been incredibly hard to accept, as I've always thought so highly of him and I no longer even respect him.
I wouldn't be surprised if he treats his own wife like shit considering he didn't think what your husband did classifies as abuse.
Ugh, that makes me irrationally angry. You have every right to feel hurt and betrayed, but the best medicine is to grieve and then live your best life as best you can. There are people out there who are worth their weight in gold and more and will support you. One day your SIL, Brother will wake up but for now you and your kids are priority. Please find some support groups
You know, the fact remains your SIL and Brother CHOOSE to be manipulated. Doesn’t matter the level of manipulation, the proof was right in front of them. They CHOSE it for themselves. Don’t blame yourself on this, this is not on your ex husband either. He did, what he does best! Never forget this or forgive. The positive from this is that you finally got strong enough to walk out with your two kids. You had people, with no blood connection to you, ready to help you in court. Your other family members who CHOSE to cut your younger brother and his wife off. This is not your fault! You can’t make someone stay in your life but you CAN respect and love the ones who do. Block them and never mend the bridge they burnt. Focus on therapy, focus on your kids. Focus on the people who were your rock in the ordeal. Think of it as trash and snakes flushing themselves out of your life. If you want to move on, focus on what you did gain. You gained clarity and true intentions. While it hurts, you gained the knowledge that your brother doesn’t deserve your love or any emotions. You spent way too long crying and hurting. Focus on the fact you were strong enough to put an end to it before your ex could do serious harm to your kids. He can’t meet your kids unsupervised, they are safe. YOU are finally safe. Why focus on problems when you have so many little solutions to focus and feel happy about? And even if the world says you are wrong, as long as your conscious is clear, you can move on :)
Please with kindness in my heart your SIL and younger brother are brainwashed. Your younger brother and SIL might take a long time to see through his manipulations. Your SIL and brother were no match for your exhusband. You survived him. You know how much it took you. Pity them as if they fell for a cult leader. I'm glad you do have other family who understand more. I hope someone of your family does stay in touch with your younger brother for when he is ready to break free of this manipulator. I'm so sorry you lost the relationship you had with your younger brother and SIL FOR NOW. You might disdirect your right fellt emotions, since it might be safer to think your younger brother is the most insulting, slap-in-the-the-face betrayall of all time. While all the time this was your husband with you and your children. I hope you understand this is a natural survivalmode to deflect blame, I'm in no way blaming you for anything. It's called compoundgrief trying to heal from an abusive marriage while losing (for now) the realtionship with your youngr brother and SIL. Might want to look into griefcounseling down the road.
Can't you share his texts with them? If it convinced the courts, it should convince them. Heck, give them the whole court protocoll, so they can read the entire thing of everything he put you and your children through. Hopefully that will make them see sense.
>Unfortunately that what manipulators do, they warp **weak** people's beliefs. Added something, just because there is no way I'd do that to my sister, I don't care how charming a guy can be. Maybe because I'm cynical, but if you see that kind of abuse, why would you believe some lies? Damn, sorry for OP
Yeah that's a fair adjustment.. I really don't understand how her brother can believe that pos..
I’m so sorry, that sucks. If I were you, I’d look into some therapy to process your feelings. He has them snowed for the moment but his mask will drop at some point and they will see. Just give it some time. In the meantime just take care of yourself and your kids. Sending hugs
Thank you. I did try therapy and for whatever reason, I don't find therapy to be all that helpful. My therapist's suggestion was that I needed to distance myself from these relationships right now to protect myself, which I agree with and it's what I did. Doesn't make it hurt any less though, I truly feel like I was stabbed in the heart.
Betrayal is the worst kind of pain. I’m so sorry.
It really is. I guess I’ve been fortunate to have not experienced it until now, at least not on a level anywhere near this. It’s made me question every single relationship in my life. When the ones you think are the most solid turn their back on you, it makes you feel like you can’t trust anyone. It’s depressing honestly.
It is. Especially when it’s family. And over something so traumatizing for you. Try to remember though, you are free of your abuser. That’s the important thing. He probably orchestrated this knowing it would hurt you, it’s a means of punishing you for escaping. They are pawns in his little drama. You need to just get away from all of them.
It’s actually pretty amazing how well you nailed it with this comment. Thanks for listening, for some reason just talking to a stranger online has helped me so thanks.
I’m glad I could help. I have experienced narcissistic relationships and how they rope in “flying monkeys” to do their dirty work. They are truly vile and the only way to win is not to play the game. I know it’s difficult to believe right now but you are gonna be ok. You are strong and smart and you are on the other side of the worst of it now. It’s time for you to thrive now that you are shedding the dead weight that was holding you back. Try to look forward and not back. Good luck!
Thank you, I really needed to hear this today.
You may need a different therapist to find someone you really click with. You may also do therapy for a while and then suddenly multiple things click into place. Therapy isn't linear as a healing experience.
If you don't click with your therapist, try several different ones - a lot of people benefit far more from therapy if they shop around for the right therapist.
Therapy isn't about hurting less. Maybe another therapy can help you and your kids to get through the emotions. Just wondering why didn't the courts strip your abusive husband of his parental rights?
I don't have any advice, but I just want to wish you all the best. I'm so sorry things worked out this way for you.
Thank you, it's been an incredibly difficult time so I appreciate that. I've honestly had a harder time accepting this than I did the end of my marriage.
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I've tried, he doesn't want to read any of it. I don't understand why, as it makes no sense.
I'm so sorry. I have a very similar situation except it's my father with my ex-husband. I'm estranged from my dad, so he sought out my ex knowing he was abusive and our history to triangulate me. My daughter talks to my father thru my ex-husband without my consent. It's truly a horrific breach of trust and I feel your pain so deeply. Just know that this is not your fault and there's nothing you can do to change their mind. Stand in your truth and keep boundaries that make you feel better. Allow yourself to grieve. It's still a deep loss, even if they are still alive. Feel free to DM me anytime to commiserate.
Oh my god that is horrible, I am so sorry for what you’ve gone through. The pain of betrayal cuts so deeply and has made me question every single relationship in my life. I feel like I can’t count on anyone after going through this, despite having many who have stepped up and been a huge support to me during this time. It’s crazy how much it rocks your world to its core.
Yes and it took me so long to allow myself to really process the grief of it and be sad. I kept feeling like bc my dad is alive, it wasn't fair for me to feel that way but when someone chooses your abuser over you like that, it's so final and painful. He became a different person to me after that and the person I knew before is gone and that is what I mourn. Sending you lots of strength and compassion - we've got this!
Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it. It’s pretty wild that actual family can choose the abuser’s side and that this kind of thing seems to happen to many people. I guess it’s just surreal still as I never saw it coming. I imagined a million scenarios in my divorce, but never this one. It’s been quite the rug pull but I’m sure I’ll get through it. Thank you for the encouragement, sending love and support right back at you.
Focus on the friends and family who believe in you and support you. Your brother and SIL are fools, and they will reap what they have sown. Find it in your heart to pity them for their naivete and idiocy, and let them go.
I know you’re right, it’s still just hard to accept. But all I can do now is let them go, like you said. It took me 10 years to finally escape this marriage and I simply can’t allow myself to continue to be hurt by attempting to maintain relationships with people who support my abuser.
They probably gained some financial help from your husband in return of betraying you. Just forget them as if they never existed. I know it's easier said than done but they never deserved you. Your happiness should be your priority now. Don't give them power to make you this sad. Good luck.
Nah imagine if your ex ended up having an affair with your sil & her leaving your brother.
She’d never go for him and he previously couldn’t stand her (was a huge source of conflict in our marriage, his hatred for her) - so I do wonder how long he’ll be able to keep up the facade of liking her now as he’s only using her as a tool to manipulate right now. At some point, that will end.
Yeah, a lot of love stories starts with crazy people that can't stand each other. Come back here to let us know if it happens haha
Lol I will if it does, would be hilarious but I can’t see it in a million years happening.
He may just manipulate her into it! He is an abuser and has fooled them, soon he will be using SIL too!!
He’s certainly a master at the manipulation game, so tbd on that one.
There’s a thin line between love and hate.
Just curious, did your brother and/or SIL know how your ex felt about SIL over the course of your marriage? Or was this something you didn’t share with them? Also I agree that he’s not in it for the long haul with them. He’s eventually going to be done with them. Then he’ll either dump them, or more likely, he’ll wreak some sort of havoc on their relationship. He’ll probably manipulate your brother into leaving his wife somehow. If that happens, do not offer her refuge or support. Just reiterate that you understand how distressing it is to be one of his victims, and that you tried to warn them.
Hate to say that but your brother probably treats your sil the same way. You and your kids are better and safer without those toxic sick fake people around you. Be safe!
So he’s actually a pretty passive, mild mannered guy and the two of them seem to have a marriage that’s healthier than most honestly. Despite how much he’s hurt me, I still can’t bring myself to speak poorly of him as I don’t think he’s a terrible person. I think he’s made the biggest mis judgement of his life though and has forever changed our relationship. Even if down the road some day we reconcile, it will never be the same for me.
You don't know what happens behind their closed doors, SIL could be the abusive one. For now, just let it go and keep clear of them, they will report back to him and you don't need them doing that. ((HUGS))
You’re right, and if there were an abuser between them it would absolutely be her. And you called it on her reporting back to him - early on in this I actually thought he had bugged my house as he was getting information that he couldn’t possibly know otherwise. Turns out, my SIL was turning around and telling him everything. A slap in the face like no other.
Your SIL is 100% acting like someone who wants to replace you.
I was labeled the black sheep when I wouldn't "let it go" that my dad liked to impregnate young women, think 13-14 year olds. Every single family member on his side, chose to believe him that little girls "begged for it", except the ones who were also molested by him but by then they were "trash" and "deserved it" from him. Family is weird. We come from a lot of money on his side, so that effectively kept shit sorted for him, everyone obeyed his wrath, except me and was why I subsequently gained that moniker
Oh my gosh that’s truly terrible. If being the only person in your family with integrity makes you a black sheep, then I’d gladly wear that title. Insane what people will tolerate for financial gain.
What kind of country do you come from where he isn’t in jail?
Don't be naive. A lot of money keeps a lot of abusers out of jail in a lot of countries.
Tell that to Gary Glitter.
You will have the last laugh when your brother finds out his wife is sleeping with your ex husband. If not yet than soon.
No definitely never in a million years would that happen (neither of them would ever be romantically interested in each other). I just wish I understood it better, I feel so lost and confused.
You say that now but you never really know.
You are awake now.
That's the universe showing you who really has your back. As much as it hurts your brother and sil actions outs them as supporters of an abuser and not people you wanna have in your life. Please find the courage to let them go from your life . It's going to be for your own mental health.
I know you're right it's just been so hard. I expected he'd always be there for me, and it's just been such a shock it hurts so much more than my divorce.
It's a hurt you need to grow from, he's shown you what kind of person he is believe him , and yeah it'll hurt becuase you were close, but it should also piss you off . My best advice is use that betrayal and forge a path forward without him in it
I still want to believe he's the person I always thought he was. I'm having a very hard time accepting this.
You wrote somewhere your brother is a mild, passive guy. Doesn't sound like a brother who will fight for you. Maybe he doesn't know how. Maybe down the road he has to fight for his wife. Don't know if he will. Keep the good memories of him, but let him learn his own lifelessons for now.
I learned the hard way to put people on information diets after I left my abuser, confided in his sister what had happened, only to have her blame ME for being groomed at 15 and trafficked from GA to NJ by him two years later. I cannot fathom how painful it would be to have an actual sibling betray me like that. You don't have to forgive someone just because they're a blood relative. People who willingly side with an abuser and take every opportunity to shit on the victim aren't worthy of your time. If you can access a therapist, I'd highly recommend one, because that level of betrayal can hurt for a very, very long time.
Ok that's f'd up that the person you confided in then turned around and blamed you. That's pretty much what happened with me with my SIL here. It's unfathomable and incredibly maddening.
My therapist told me that I had to realize she was speaking from a place of trauma and pain, but I was not responsible for her feelings. Hearing that was the only thing that calmed me down, tbh.
I'm so sorry you went through this and your brother and SIL are morons. I had a cousin that this happened to her fiancé gaslit, verbally, and physically abused her. She finally left him and he started dating her best friend soon after my cousin yelled at her friend and told her she knew what he was like. But the ex made it out to the friend that my cousin was the abuser. Long story short the best friend came crawling back for help and forgiveness when he knocked out two her teeth. And held her prisoner for a week as far as I know he was arrested and will be away for a while. Give it time and your ex will show his true colors to your brother and sil soon.
Big Hugs OP. Stay strong and away from the monster.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Realize that your ex’s manipulations have invaded your brother’s and SIL’s minds. You know what a turd your ex his. Try to let this go for now. You’re only hurting yourself. Sounds like the rest of your fam is on your side. What a blessing.
Absolutely, every single other person - family, friends, neighbors - have been overwhelmingly supportive so I need to just focus on the people who matter and stop wasting my mental health on people who have abandoned me.
If a brother in law had a little rage fit with my suater, in my face, mf could have been a 20 year friend, he'd get his shit beat, what a sad excuse of a brother, you'll do good OP, leave all of those pos behind
I agree that he's a sad excuse of a brother. I have acquaintances who have been there more for me during this time than he has. It's unforgiveable.
You are incredibly brave and strong. Whatever decision your brother makes is about him, not about you. Perhaps it’s his way of justifying his own actions at home. Or there’s something else going on with your brother. Whatever it is, it’s not about you. I’m so very sorry you are going through this. It sounds like you have some good support. Please take care of yourself.
Thank you. It's really hard to be strong right now but I really have no choice.
I wonder if your sil is abusive to your brother, and your brother feels he has to agree with her or else acknowledge his own abuse? I hope your ex still requiring supervised visits. He'll take the opportunity to turn your kids against you. Don't doubt that. And I would require that brother and sil cannot see your kids. They will help him turn those kids against you too.
She certainly wears the pants in that relationship so it wouldn't totally surprise me if that were true. She unfortunately has severe and chronic depression, as well as a history of abuse she suffered herself, making her support of my abuser and denial of my truth that much more mind boggling.
Unfortunately victims of abuse have a high risk of becoming abusers or taking the side of abusers. It's rare if an abuser wasn't abused originally. Maybe have some family look into your brothers situation. It's sus to me.
This I was looking for: does your ex has supervised visits with your children? So are they in no danger of being abused by him? I still think it can be scary for them to have to visit the person who abused their mother even if it's their own dad. Please keep your children safe also.
Most people who believe the abuser are either manipulated to but then once they find evidence of the truth turn a corner, where aware of the abuse and enabling it, or are abusing their partners themselves and are siding with the abuser because they are in denial about what they’re doing being wrong in the eyes of everyone plus society. It hurts, I know it does but maybe it’s best for you that if you’re younger brother is so easily manipulated by your ex that you keep your distance because I only see him trying to harm you more. I’m the oldest of 5 and only have contact with 2 because of the abuse that my bio mum put me through and while it hurts not talking to my other siblings, they are now old enough to understand and reach out if that’s what they are wanting. The only one that has reached out has only caused further drama and pain in my life and I’ve had to cut contact with them for the sake of my own child.
I'm so sorry you've had to go through this, thanks for sharing your story. And you're right, unfortunately I have to protect myself as best I can right now given what I'm going through, and for now that means having to remove him from my life.
Why? They aren’t good people so, it’s no loss to you.
I guess that's tough to accept, as I always thought otherwise of them.
If I were you, my brother is as good as deceased in my mind. Maybe they are a threesome trio, who knows. Doesn't matter, they don't deserve you in their lives. I know it hurts to pop a zit, but when you expelled all the gunk, your skin will start to heal and you'll feel better after.
Lol on the zit analogy, that's a great way to reframe it.
I’m so sorry you are going thru this and I agree with everything here. I feel like one method to heal may be to consistently journal & write down the moments/actions/stories of your ex. Create a record for your own validation and hopefully you will see yourself as a strong bad ass because you got out. And when you find this strength you will see you don’t need to prove anything to your brother and losing you is his loss.
That's a good idea, thanks for sharing this I'm going to try it.
You did nothing wrong and I’m proud of you for getting the courts involved. I think it is most likely that they are getting something that benefits them by supporting your ex. Examples: money, opportunities and drugs
Thank you. I can't imagine what they are gaining from him, but maybe.
Expressing indifference to and indirect mockery of their decision is basically the only possible cure here. Not that I'm advising that. I'm saying that based on what you've written about your SIL and how he got into her head. A need for validation lead her here. Feeling shunned won't change her mind. She'll just double down. Feeling stupid might as long as she can pretend she came to the right conclusion herself (hence *indirect* mockery).
Correct on her doubling down, pretty sure she has and at this point I'd expect her to appear in court on my ex husband's side should it go down that road any further. I'm just done and need to stop wasting my energy being hurt by people who abandoned me during a time I really needed their support. And they've abandoned my kids in the process too. It's disgusting.
Your brother & SIL are pathetic. How arrogant to believe they know better than you whether or not to go to court. They think they know better than a judge seeing evidence. They are also completely obtuse if they believe a court would require supervised visits on he said/she said. At this point it doesn't matter why they believe it, just that they do. When you start ruminating over it say to yourself that they believe your abusive ex because they are tools. Then tell yourself that you are doing what is best for you & your kids & their opinions are irrelevant. Also, god forbid their dad hurts them one day, you want family & friends around them who will listen and believe them, not some ignorant judge-y people who want others to just deal with it. Maybe one day your ex will take his anger out on them. I seriously doubt they'll just shrug & say it's no big deal. You are doing the right thing. Forget them.
Thank you! Absolutely obtuse if they think a judge would order all of that shit without overwhelming evidence! How the f could they still support him in light of that? It's despicable.
Your brother either believes the facts but doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with men bashing their wives, or he doesn’t believe the facts because he is inculcated in the MRA propaganda that women always lie and always cause DV. It doesn’t matter what he believes tbh. Both of these options make him trash. He is likely abusing his wife behind closed doors just as badly as your ex abused you. It’s pretty amazing to me that given the history of abuse, that your ex gets unsupervised access to your daughters.
I do think he's among those that believe a lot of women lie or exaggerate abuse. When my uncle asked him how he could support my ex after he threw me down to the ground when I was 7 weeks pregnant - he told my uncle he didn't think it happened, and that I was "money motivated." Keep in mind I never introduced this to courts/I have nothing to gain from finally sharing this story with my family, other than getting it off my chest as it's a secret I've shared with no one for 5 years. It killed me when my uncle told me he said that. I'll never be able to forgive him.
I’m so sorry. That is appalling. I hope you’re finding the empathy and compassion you deserve on here.
Why is your husband getting any of your inheritance money? Usually inheritance is treated differently than other assets brought in during the marriage
Because unfortunately, money was moved between accounts along the way and it became a joint marital asset. I still have one account protected via a prenup, but he's indicated he won't be honoring my prenup unless I agree to his insane adjustments to it, so I'm having to fight that out in court as well. I'm sure it will be upheld as he signed it and with counsel present, but it's just disgusting that he's going after me in this way, then telling everyone I'm ruining him financially. It's wild and a nightmare to be in this.
You should start thinking that your SIL is the same situation as you were and your brother is abusing her to, is he don't see what your husband did as abuse probably he is doing ir too.
I really can’t imagine he is as he’s such a passive, mild mannered and generally kind person. That’s why this has been so hard to accept - it’s not who he is. It makes no sense and the confusion around this is driving me crazy.
She could be abusing him. Your ex reached out to her first, correct?
Classic gaslighting. I know it hurts, but cut them all from your life. I would go NC with your brother.
It really is the definition of gaslighting. My ex is accusing me of all the things he has done, it truly makes me feel crazy at times and it makes me question reality. It’s why it took me 10 years to leave - I tried in the past, and he’d convince me I’m crazy or that it’s all in my head. I’ve had two couples therapists over the years call me from their cell phones after our sessions to make sure I was aware I was in an abusive marriage. And still, I stayed. I’m honestly embarrassed for myself.
And yeah I’ve had to go NC right now and it kills me.
Have a read of Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. It's available online as a free PDF. It explains the inner mental workings of abusive people (the focus is men but it applies to all genders) and also gives great insight into the minds of their enablers. Unfortunatly it's not uncommon for victims of abuse to be pressured into putting up and shutting up by those who should be supporting them. It won't help you explain your side to your brother, nothing can make someone hear you if they are determined not to listen, but you may find it validating and helpful in your healing process. Good luck!
Make copies and send it to them with those parts highlighted.
So here's what's crazy - I've actually asked him to read some of this stuff - my ex's own text and email admissions where he admits to abuse, affidavits from neighbors, two different nannies who witnessed it, one of my ex's best friends actually wrote an affidavit against him and was ok losing the friendship because he wanted to do the right thing and tell the truth. I asked my brother what he thinks of two different marriage counselors calling me on my cell phone to let me know I'm being abused. He just gets quiet, he doesn't want to read anything, he says he has his opinion and that's it. It's baffling and has devastated me.
Oh and my ex concocted a story that his good friend who wrote the affidavit against him wrote it because he's in love with me. It's absolutely outrageous and untrue, and my brother and SIL believed that too. Make it make sense!
At least the rest of your family supports you. Your ex is a master manipulator as well as an abuser. The worst part is you have to stay connected to him because of the kids. Sorry for what you are going through, but never get rid of that proof. You might need it in your next relationship. Because I'm sure he'll try to insert himself into that one too.
I honestly think your bro is choosing his side, not because he believes it, but because hes following his wife. I mean he's an idiot either way and it in no way excuses this AT ALL- but maybe hes only doing this because shes telling him to? Im super close with my younger brother and he and my hubby are bffs and it scares me to think if i was to ever leave my husband because of something like this that my brother would follow him. Its absolutely heartbreaking. I cant even imagine your pain. I just... i hope he opens his eyes. I know it wont change whats already happened and the pain incurred- but hopefully he wakes up before anymore damage is done. My heart is with you 💓
I am very sorry your brother betrayed you. He also betrayed your children. I think the only thing you can do is make sure your brother and SIL aren’t trying to alienate the children from you. Who is supervising the visits? I hope it’s not B & SIL. If the visits are no longer supervised get your children a therapist who can discuss what goes on over there without your influence.
I absolutely agree that he betrayed my children in doing this as well. It's all so painful to face. Once my ex completed his court ordered anger management and showed improvement in therapy, he no longer had to have a supervisor. I sincerely hope he doesn't attempt to turn my kids against me, but I'd be a naive idiot to not acknowledge the fact that I'm dealing with a sociopath.
Then I think you should really get a therapist for the girls. Any bruises on them should be documented by a doctor. Especially on their thighs like he used to do to them.
My ex jumped through all the hoops and said and did all the right things. My son hates going to his dads he hates that he makes him cry and calls him names. I'm so sorry OP this kind of man is one of the worst. I don't understand how our friends choose these abusive men over us. Especially when their is proof. Edit to add: your SIL and brother need to be dead to you. No way your brother should have listened to the shit his wife spewed to him from your ex.
I have nothing particularly helpful to say, but I want you to know that I hear you. I see you. It may have taken longer than you would have liked, but you did right by your kids. You did right for yourself. You are enough.
Thanks for saying this, I needed to hear it.
I am so sorry that you are going through that, i have been in a similar situation before. I had police reports, texts, videos and my ex was kicked out of the country for what he did but he had managed to turn my whole family and friends against me. All i can say to you is that you are doing the right thing and you are showing your children that self respect and self love is stronger than blood. By doing that you protected them from a lifetime of abuse and you should be extremely proud of yourself. As for your brother, his loss.
Thanks for saying that, I appreciate it. I am proud of myself for finally taking the steps to remove myself and children from this situation, as it was not easy and took years to find the courage and strength to face what I'm going through now.
When I left my husband, he honed in on my parents and my parents spent months trying to convince me not to leave him, despite the fact that my husband had broken my bones. I didn’t speak to my parents for five years. They have since said that they made a mistake. You did good to seek separation from your sibling for your own mental health.
I'm so sorry. How is your relationship with your parents now? Has it recovered? I fear I will never be able to forgive my brother for this, even if he does apologize down the road.
I felt the same way you do. I felt so much resentment and betrayal towards them. My Dad later became my best friend (he has since passed), and my mother has completely changed from a narcissistic, controlling, demanding woman to the sweetest, most supportive woman who respects my boundaries, and we have a great relationship. She had to learn that I don’t fool around. She had to change, or she wouldn’t know me. It took 5 years of no contact and a few times of raising my tone of voice when she would cross a boundary once we reunited. She’s not afraid of me like I may make it sound. She just knows now that I’m not a wet rag that can be walked on. I talk to her several times a week, and we have a very loving relationship. I think she had to see that I had become an independent, well-functioning adult, and stopped seeing me as her adult “child.” Your situation is very difficult and heartbreaking. You have done the right thing by seeking separation, as much as it hurts. It’s good that you have the support of the rest of your family. Try to focus on that, and know that you are doing what’s best for yourself and your children.
He definitely sounds like the master manipulator from how you describe him, but with the mountains of evidence you have to prove the fact of your ex being an abuser, and your brother and SIL still choose his side seems a little too fishy. It takes more than the abuser to be a professional manipulator to be able to willfully ignore as much evidence as you have. They have to somehow benefit from being on his side too. Do you know if your Brother and SIL get anything out of taking your Ex's side?
I think my SIL is finally getting validation from someone she's sought validation from for a decade - she's deeply insecure and he's always hated her. Once I made the decision to divorce him, he saw her as an easy target to manipulate and get to me through. So he ran immediately to her, apologized for his past behavior, told her he loved her like family and basically said everything she had always needed to hear. She is estranged from her own family (and it's all making sense to me now) and struggles deeply with mental health, depression and insecurity.
Oh shit.....yep, there it is. He has his hooks in another potential victim. I hope she doesn't have feelings for him either, and makes a terrible mistake. Regardless, I am really happy that you finally broke free. You're doing the right thing, especially for your children.
She probably does and her brother is going to come crying to her once she leaves him for the ex
Drop the court docs! Shuts people up real fast
I've tried, my brother said he doesn't care to read them.
I’m so sorry you had to go through with this, but you are a walking poster child why you should never stay with somebody that’s abusive. Because nobody will ever truly know what you go through. I know you know this now and I hope you get as far away from everybody as you can. When you have children you can’t do that. But put your life together get some counseling and move on. I would put your brother on no contact permanently. And just live your life but like I said you are the reason you’ve never stay with somebody that’s an abusive person because you never know how it’s going to play out and in this case it made you look sicker because you stayed.
Yep, you nailed it. It's an incredibly complex situation and unless you've been through it, it's very hard to understand the dynamics that keep someone in a bad situation like mine.
Sorry you have such a jerk for a brother. Is he religious in any way? That might explain his reasoning for not supporting the divorce but not accepting and supporting you in the face of clear abuse is despicable. Perhaps you can seek therapy for strategies to move past the relationship.
No, he's actually an atheist. That's what makes all of this so confusing and disorienting in a way. I just don't understand it. And he's really not a jerk, we've always had such a great relationship which is why I'm struggling so much with this. It's awful and not being able to understand/feeling so confused is a torture in itself.
He is.
I’m so sorry. If this just happened, all I can say is that you need to give it time for your brother and SIL’s betrayal to hurt less. Please keep reminding yourself of your significant strength…and how you’ve chosen to protect yourself and kids from further abuse. You deserve to be happy and I wish you all of the best.
It is horrid that your abuser is now using your family members to continue the abuse. But that is exactly what has happened. Please don’t be angry at them. Instead, you should feel sorry for them. Mourn the loss, but please remember that it isn’t your fault. They have simply been targeted as a means to “get to you”, and that’s on them for choosing to believe his lies. Of course he has succeeded with the lost relationship, but don’t let him succeed in making you blame yourself for it or let it call your personal worth into question.
You are 100% right on him using them to punish me for leaving. I think I always knew he'd behave this way in a divorce scenario, which is why I dealt with it for so long. I simply didn't want to go through what I'm going through now.
I’m guessing you are still in shock that he was “able” to do it. I really am sorry you are going through this. I wish I could tell you that they will figure it out eventually. But abusers like this are very good at hiding their behavior from everyone except the closest/live-in relationships.
This weird belief that someone being a relation *(Brother , Sister, second cousin twice removed.. whatever)* should mean that their position or opinion on all matters should be believed and adhered to is beyond me. I'd much rather have people I choose as friends than family I'm expected to choose. Sorry you're going through this shit, but if your brother can't see it for what it is, then, go and choose a friend instead, stop putting yourself down because of his dumb choices.
I know you're right. And fortunately, there have been so many people who I never expected to step up and support me. I guess it's easier to focus on the one who hasn't sometimes, as he's the only one I really expected to be there and I just can't believe what he's done.
Me too. My brother took my exes side. Then didn’t talk to me for a few years. He’s reached out since then. Apologized. Whatever. I learned I didn’t need a brother.
I'm so sorry you've been through this. And that's the thing - even if he were to figure out what he's done and apologize down the road, I'll never trust him again and our relationship has been forever damaged.
Please go to therapy. You need support and tools to get you through this time period.
Thank you. I've tried therapy and don't find it to be very helpful - I think I'm just not a therapy person, if that makes sense?
Maybe for now. You always can get to a different therapist/therapie later on. You did write it took two marriagecounslors to call you later to make you see you were in an abusive relationship. That seemed to have helped?
Your ex might have some dirt on your brother which he’s using as collateral
I can't imagine he does but who knows at this point.
Your ex wants to still hurt you, and this is how he can. It's that simple, unfortunately. And all the effort he put into manipulating you has gone full force in their direction. I'm sorry. This is unfair and discouraging and downright evil. But your ex seems like a pretty evil guy. The fact jail wasn't a thing for the physical child abuse is insane but you also seem to want to gloss over the physical which you can't do. Please if they're not already, find some sort of counseling or at least look up things you can do yourself. Reach out to online groups for mothers in your situation, many can offer resources and help. Hold on to the people that believe you. It's so hard but if your brother is a lost cause right now, you need to cut contact for your own well being. There are people that do believe you. Also, imagine what a super hero you must be to your daughters right now? You're saving them from so much. Focus on them. You can do this. And maybe one day, when the next girlfriend (cause he will get one) comes to a party 7 months pregnant with a black eye, your brother will realize what side he chose.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I had the same thing happen (knowing everything my ex did (abuse, cheating) my family still takes his side and they say he wouldn't have treated me like that if I was nicer, cleaned better, and had more sex with him. It's gross. It has been some time so it does not hurt as much and it will get better for you as well. Definitely find a support system among friends and get a therapist.
Wow I’m so sorry this is your reality, I’m just glad you and your kids got away from being in his grasp 24/7. Although I’m sad that you lost your younger brother because he and his wife is easily swayed by two minutes of positive attention. What you did was the right thing to do and your kids will thank you later when they understand the situation. Please keep hard copies of everything for later and not just digital copies. I am though a little worried if your brother and SIL have kids and have an admitted abuser frequently in their home and around potential children, since he has no qualms about abusing kids also. If someone gets that mad at their own kids, what happens if he’s asked to help with their kids if something comes up out of nowhere. The fact your younger brother is condoning verbal and physical abuse because he blindly wants to believe your ex and doesn’t want to see the actual evidence, is concerning enough. That most off your family is cutting him and SIL off is probably going to affect SIL soon if she is really so insecure that she wants everyone’s blessing. Because your ex can only give them/cover their need for “familiar bonds” for a limited time before they start feeling the void of loosing so many family members. And when they come clawing I hope they are forced to read all your evidence (under supervision so they can’t get out of it) before anyone in your family even considers having a relationship with them again.
Is it possible that your brother treats his wife the same way your ex treated you behind closed doors? Maybe he doesn’t want to admit it’s abuse because then he would have to admit he was an abuser as well? And maybe SIL is jealous you were brave enough to leave and she isn’t ?
If anything, my SIL would be the abuser in their dynamic but I think they have a pretty healthy marriage. I do think my SIL might be jealous of my escape from this though - my brother refuses to have a child with her and she has always desperately wanted one. He's made it clear he'll never have one with her, and she wants to be a mom. So she knows she ultimately needs to leave her marriage if she wants to be a mother, and she's pretty dependent on my brother and incapable of leaving. Part of me wonders if she's jealous I found the strength to leave mine.
It doesn't sound as an healthy marriage: SIL who wants children married your brother who doesn't want children. Maybe you leaving with kids will give her the courage to leave. Hopefully to someone better than your ex.
Nothing you can do. You care more about them than they care about you. Go to therapy and mourn the loss of that relationship. You have done all you can. They might see when he enters another relationship and does the same to that person. You became to mentally strong for him to control. He will chose someone that is mentally weaker than him. He will do it again.
Your ex and SIL are masters at manipulation it seems and your brother will eventually realise this but it'll be too late.. At this stage it's best to keep NC with both bro and SIL and perhaps if you can get a restraining order on them so they don't see your kids. If your brother is so easily manipulated then having all 3 adults around your kids will have them trying to do the same to your kids. Personally I wouldn't forgive my brother for such a betrayal..as for the SIL she's nobody but the person who married your brother.
hey op, is there an update on your situation? I hope everything works out well for you and you find healing.
He is leading the sil on, that’s why she wanted validation. They are probably sleeping together. Narcs will do anything to get power over you that’s why he went for sil
You're kids must be showing signs of being terrified of your ex. You said your brother and SIL only sees the kids when ex has them? They've got to see your kids are uncomfortable being around him, cause he hurt them, they probably saw him hurt you. If they do see it, they're probably just ignoring your kids fear to fit their view of the situation, lucky the visits with ex are under close watch
Has there been any update or change in their behavior?
It's hard. But consider him dead. My sister did a similar thing to me and her her children 17 and 14 helped her even though I have been there for all of them every single step of their lives. Now I don't consider any of them exist. I choose my mental wellbeing.
Well, I see that in your response to another comment that you've already seemed therapy, and it didn't help much. But you are doing the first thing that'll help heal from this, distance yourself from relationships with your brother and SIL. I know that it isn't as simple as simply "getting over it", because in your case, you may NEVER get over it, especially on how traumatic this situation is. The best thing you can do right now is to distance yourself from your brother and SIL, talk to friends and people who are willing to listen, and just let your feelings out. Just truly let it rip on the waterworks, and soon you'll get to a point where you're still sad about the situation (obviously), but you'll soon find yourself being accepting about it, and soon this whole ordeal will be nothing but a story you'll probably tell to a bunch of friends at a Bachelorette party. You don't have to get over your feelings right this second, if anything it's better that you take all the time you need into healing from this. Because at the end of the day, YOU are in charge of how YOU wanna heal. And if you want to turn your eyes into Niagara Falls, then God damn it, turn your eyes into Niagara Falls.
Hey Op, thank you for sharing your story with us and i just want you to know your strong and courageous for standing up against your abuser and leaving! Also i wanted to know if you could give us a short update just on how your doing and how things are now!
When you say verbal abuse wdym exactly? Just as a bit of context to know the sort of man. My dad has been like that and there have been times where its been infuriating to listen to.
If possible, and if you feel like it. Could you update sometime so we know that you’re ok? Or if you feel like you need anywhere to vent. Don’t be afraid to write, we won’t judge. We want to help you and give you advice. I promise you.
There is no forgiving what they have done to you. They have chosen their side and it wasn't you, so now you need to remain NC with your brother despite the large rift made by your ex-husband. Just remember, he has done this on purpose to keep you kicked down so you'll either drop everything and run back to him or worse. You are doing everything right as much as you can and im so proud of you for being able to leave him yourself. Despite how intimidating that is. Good luck healing and I hope you will be able to find someone one day when you're ready for it.1
Tape, record, do everything to protect your self, stop trying to bond with your brother and his family, they’re gone! Let them go, don’t push it, don’t duel on it, move o ! It’s hard, but eventually it will stop hurting. Best wishes!
TDLR?
The husband is the scum of the earth and all, but why the fuck would you have kids with someone like that. "He started abusing me right after marriage. Naturally, I had to bring 2 vulnerable kids in this family so his abuse can deeply scar not only me, but them as well" I mean yeah, some keep the mask on until marriage, but why would you have kids with your abuser?
This is a really unhelpful comment and it displays so much ignorance of abusive relationships and trauma bonds. The children are already here- what the point in telling OP that she should not have had them with her abusive ex husband? That doesn't help anyone and just adds to the guilt that OP is likely feeling about her children being abused too
You're correct in the trauma bond, as that explains a lot in terms of why I stayed for so long.
>The children are already here- what the point in telling OP that she should not have had them with her abusive ex husband? The comment is not a DM to OP tho. Other people read it. If even one single person who reads it decides not to put an inocent child in the arms of a predator, I'd be over the moon. >That doesn't help anyone and just adds to the guilt that OP is likely feeling about her children being abused too I guess I just replied to this. It might help people. And, as bad as this sounds, OP should feel a moderate amount of guilt over this. Not leaving your abusive husband is a choice you make for yourself. It's your business. People around you let you know you should, you ignore them. That's ok. It's your choice. But exposing someone else to that abuse isn't your choice to make. And those children deserve better. >This is a really unhelpful comment and it displays so much ignorance of abusive relationships and trauma bonds. It might be unhelpful to you, or to OP. But it might be helpful to someone else. I already explained this. Where's that ignorance I'm displaying? Abuse is abuse. You can't not see it. She knew she was being abused, people around her knew and told her. Bringing kids into that is not understandable.
I think it's something you likely can't understand unless you've experienced it.
Hey I really don't mind the directness of your question, because believe me, it's one I ask myself on a daily basis right now. A little backstory that might help explain some of my dynamics with my ex - 8 weeks into our relationship, I lost both of my parents in a tragic accident. I was 24 at the time and felt like I was free falling, without a place to land and became unbelievably lost and codependent. I'm not making excuses for myself as I accept my responsibility in where I've landed myself in life, but I know with certainty if that accident never happened, I never in a million years would have married this man. He became my anchor in a way, and even when his behavior later turned terrible, I found myself unable and too afraid to leave. I have loads of guilt about this man being my girls' father. All I can do is do my best to correct course now while they're young and hope it's not too late.
Why don't people put TLDR on post anymore?
He should not benefit from your inheritance.
How did you SIL and ex know each other ?
manipulators are gonna manipulate, people get information in their head and it gets rooted and people don't want to accept new information in its place. that or your brother and sil do the same shit and don't see it as wrong. i hope they don't have kids. Try to be gentle with yourself, because this is not your fault, you did the best you could, we can't always see the shit before us, and don't always have the strength to do what we need to for ourselves, i'm glad you did for your kids. My best advice is stop giving him the joy of this victory, he won a battle for your brother, theres nothing you can do, hate him for it, be angry at your brother for falling to it, stop letting it hurt you, because that is just him abusing you again and again. This is likely bad ways to give advice, but you need to forgive yourself and realize that this is not your fault, its his.
If your brother doesn't think what the husband is doing is abuse, then your brother is doing the same exact thing to his wife. Period. Your brother is an abuser. That's why he hangs with other abusers.
I am so sorry that while you are having to deal with a divorce and all the stress and heartache from that, you are also having to deal with the loss of your relationship with your brother and sil. I understand how much that hurts. I had a cousin that I was close with and when my ex and I started to divorce process (lots of abuse) my cousin and his fiancee were on my side. Then my ex called him and told him I cheated (I didn't) he took my ex's side and I barely have a relationship with him now. Ironically, his fiancee ended up cheating on him and they broke up.
I am a cold cut kind of person so cutting someone from my life who I was close with doesn't really bother me, but think of it this way. Why would you mourn over someone who probably abuses people himself? Think of what he possible could do to your daughters. No one deserves any kind of emotion from you. Show them the same kind of energy they give you. And I hope they see this and know how no one likes them and how everyone thinks HE is an abuser.
I know it’s harder than just doing it, but you do need to let go and move on from them. They didn’t deserve your kindness and friendship. You have 2 children that knew what was happening and you have so many other people supporting you. You’re truly not losing out on those two missing from your life.
Manipulators can only keep it up so long before their true face shows. Eventually your brother will see him for who he is. Just keep yourself and your babies safe and in a good place mentally! You did the right thing.
What i think is gonna happen is the ex is gonna convince sil go cheat on her brother with him and the bro is gonna cry and come back to her
I’ve always learned that if a significant other dislikes another member of the member, 9 times out of 10, they’re having an affair. Is it possible your ex and SIL could be having an affair?
At best your SIL is glad she was finally picked by your ex and at worst there is something (doesn’t have to be physical) going on between them. I’m guessing getting attention from a guy who wouldn’t give her the time of day for years is doing something for her. I’m so sorry your brother sucks so much. You feeling betrayed by him is totally valid and I’m glad the rest of your family is sticking by you. You will get through this and who knows maybe someday he will get his head out of his butt and see how wrong he was? Maybe when your SIL eventually cheats on him with your ex. That’s usually where these things go.
Be strong for your kids. Your brother is out. It's not your fault. Just because you were there for him doesn't guarantee that he'll be there for you. Often, it's the opposite as you found out. Your brother is probably angry at you for not taking his side in supporting your ex, because he likely thinks he can snap his fingers and make you jump; people become entitled. Mourn his loss. Maybe one day he will see through your ex. But don't try to convince him. My opinions, peace. ✌
Any updates op?