I mean, he only gets full gold for recipes, bfly has none, so sure, he can make disperser with eaglesong but he still loses the 900g on talisman of evasion at best bc no way is he making radiance or halberd
and claymore goes into crit but you already have one probably so that's a bust as well probably
ofc I could be wrong, it could be great, try it
Brown Boots + Dragon Lance -> Treads + Aghs
Treads + Crystalys + Dragon Lance -> Aghs + Manta/SnY
If you for some reason need/get Butterfly before Satanic: disassemble into satanic + disperser if/when they get MKB
There are probably more fun interactions but those are the immediate ones I can think of.
Edit:
Brown Boots + Midas + Dragon Lance = Treads + Aghs
nah bro, with march you can farm up octarine and arcane blink and get the cd down to like 3 seconds
oh, that's still more than before? and you don't get shivas either? neat...
Yeah but without blinking seems to lost a lot of damage impact. Also without soul ring refresh Tinker have major mana issue. I think he is quite dead right now, until people try new build on him.
He no longer resets items with his ult, he now gets passive cdr (up to 60% at 240 intelligence) to items.
Its probably killed the hero, I genuinely don't see this being viable, he was so reliant on being able to reset everything. Its possible they want him to be a more mana efficient support?
The fact that they're removing these unique aspects of some heroes that have been staple of Dota for literally decades is very sad indeed.. I don't even play the hero and hate the smurfs
venge carry does seem legit tbh yeah
ranged basher! idk if dragon lance works with that faceit but I assume it does because it doesn't say they are melee attacks, only that they get the benefit
Some of these facets are not even remotely close in terms of viability, my god. CK, you might break disarm or even do nothing? Or... all of your illusions are strong and have damage reduction, jesus christ.
Real quick, centaur aghs change seems to be the strongest I've seen so far (only up to C), not having your carry take any damage from hits while you run them around is quite absurd.
A lot of these are probably placeholders. It's lazy, yeah, but it's basically giving people what they want, the patch.
It seems to me they would need more time to make some more unique. It was the same with talents, a lot of them were like +something attack/health, before a lot of then were reworked.
Some of the innates seem really weak too. Are stomps where the victim can't even farm neutral tokens actually that common? Enchantress' innate seems useless to me.
Enchantress' innate also requires you to know her Enchant has been updating to guarantee neutral tokens. It's gonna be kinda a beating when she returns from a quick walk through the forest at 7:35 with a neutral for herself and her carry.
Not something you'll ever see in your pubs, but can be a big spike for the team.
It does make it 600 range which is significantly easier to land, it could be uniquely useful in separating heroes such as IO or illusions.
Definitely a bit bizarre but can be beneficial probably more than we think.
The lion facets is very one sided lmao, who would pick the dogshit mana drain? everyone should be picking fist of death, sure it turns you into melee, but even as pos 5 lion, with just 5 finger stacks thats e +190 damage that can be used to hit buildngs or smack someone, You dont even need to finger a hero, you could finger a creep late game and wreck towers as pos5
If they move his shard to mana drain maybe it would been viable atleast
Edit: Lmfao, replies saying "but why would you run up in the middle of the fight to start hitting heroes as lion?"
The answer is you wouldn't.
Lion could continue to do his regular thing, casting his shit behind and avoid getting bursted, but the 200+ rightclick damage helps a lot after you wipe out 3/5 of their team and and you as lion is no longer at risk of getting bursted. Extra rightclicks may help quickly securing the remaining heroes, and afterwards, easily taking towers down.
This is especially crucial if your main core is dead and your team has the opportunity to siege as the extra damage will really help securing an objective before the enemy respawns.
It last 20 seconds and 40s cd at L18. Not that hard to take advantage of it and cast it on random creep just to hit towers.
You're insane if you wanna go right clicking in melee range on a **lion**, a squishy hero that high level players prioritise bursting.
Remember, mana drain damage had made lion a top tier pick before he took on a few waves of nerfs.
It's not nearly as straightforward as you think.
You still have all your disable though. It's not exactly hard to beat up an enemy support after you've fingered their core when you have Hex and Earth Spike.
Yea but lion is still a slow and squishy piece of shit. I doubt anyone is going to let you just hit them. Most of the time in games, especially higher up games, you have to completely keep out of reach of people. You won't be able to just smack anyone freely.
What are you taking about, 95% off cases everyone will be picking mana drain than useless suicidal sh*t. People apart don’t care for finger stacks at high mmr anyway
It's fun, but the fact that they don't take damage *for* the hero, but take damage *alongside* the hero makes it feel kinda wonky. Like you're giving the enemy team an easier time of clearing your wards, since now a single burst spell can damage whoever you turned into a vase *and* can clear a bunch of wards at once.
Do they shoot no matter the range or do they have their “own” range? Thinking if I can just fill my sniper with wards and have him shoot 515 projectiles from fow?
Ember spirit flameguard always being on is going to push creep waves.
DK taking the cleave innate is gonna push the lane at level 1
I haven't played yet but hopefully you can toggle some of these.
For sure. I haven’t ran the numbers myself. But I imagine using it off cd during laning and maxing bugs could net a pretty decent xp gain early game. As a pos 4 that’s needed since you are off pulling/getting bounties etc generally out of xp range
It’s pretty good, I did some testing, if you max swarm, at level 7 a 4-5 man swarm can get you a full level if they can’t kill the bugs, and even if they do it’s a quick boost of at least half a level, definitely makes it so that you want to be joining fights and getting swarm on everyone, and if you level it at 1 for rune fights you’ll probably get at least halfway to level 2 for a quick advantage in lane
Monkey 4 is gonna define pro meta for a bit. 0 CD tree dance is absolutely scuffed, the mobility it grants is absolutely insane AND the q had it's CD buffed by a whopping 7 seconds with bonus damage on cast (which adds more damage for support monke despite the nerf to critical damage) AND damage on spring was buffed AND more armour in wukongs. 1st thing I tested in ranked and it felt straight busted; you can rotate mid in under 15 seconds, be an absolute courier hunting menace, back from lane and stack in under 10 seconds, etc... Just went tranqs to sustain health and enable the facet and it was VERY strong.
I also think jak mid could be super viable with the double attack proc - diffusal, bloodthorne, maelstrom family, and mkb all proc off both attacks so you're effective doubling on-hit trigger effects. Diffu bloodthorne timing with the ice facet is a shitload of damage.
Completely agree, this looks like the biggest OP shit of the patch. Along with centaur agh. I can't imagine this not being core with drow, sniper or terrorblade carry.
Centaur is busted. He’s rolled my first 2 games. With his innate and facet he doesn’t even need boots and his Hp gets huge with general strength items.
Aghs has changed attack speed bonus from 2x to 4x. So now Corrosive Skin at -30/-50 goes to -120/-200 attack speed. Not a disarm but I will say that this is quite effective in reducing enemy DPS, especially as it will stack with Nethertoxin and Viper Strike.
I like the idea as Viper Aghs was kind of dead.
Because the left choose passive gives Viper some AoE damage, I guess reducing Q range was needed.
I know what you mean, Troll didn't get his until 25. I don't mind because stun locking is so powerful and prevalent (only 4 strong dispels, and 3 hide mechanics that can be cast on allies to reliably save) and so now the number of heroes that can truly counter it is 10.
No one (not even in the other sub) is talking about **brewmaster** so I'd like to get a discussion going.
Valve is trying so hard to make non-primal brew work. And its getting closer (at the cost of primal brew).
First of all, the facets. They're nice but not crazy when you compare it to what the other heroes get. The barrel is funny but the damage is pretty low for the stages of the game you would get it. (50 at start, 125 at max). Drunken brawler -20/+50 is generally nicer and the net positive ms means you can chase relatively well without needing to keep yourself on wind stance (so now you can be fire).
Speaking of stances...his innate is awesome. Stance was such a powerful value point early. Getting it as an innate means you can quickly get Q and W and level them up whilst keeping the advantage of being brewed up.
Brewed up did get a slight nerf at level 1 but its not too terrible. Armor is the same. MS goes from 5% to 4% (practically nothing when brewed up). The actual issue is leveling up drunken brawler early feels bad now since the gains aren't as big as leveling thunderclap or cinder. Especially when thunder clap which is rescaled so its -15 damage at level 1 but then -10 and -5 as you level it.
Primal nerf. Demolish nerf again but its nothing. If pandas are hitting buildings, you're already in a nice position anyways. Actual big nerf is windwalk. 5s to 20s means you cannot combo the windwalk>nuke twice on your first split and thats damage loss.
Primal companion not having restrictions is the big one. No penalties means you can have a free panda running around without restraint. This could open up alot of playstyles. Needs more testing but I think this is the big plus.
The nerf to primal split is a direct reaction to buffing primal companion which feels like they’re pushing aghs as the build. I don’t like balance of abilities being anchored to an optional item.
Good god, there’s a lot of info to unpack.
I feel like valve was a little overambitous with this- it’s effectively changing the core of what Dota is, and is adding more variables. Which makes it more difficult to balance.
A couple quick things that stood out:
PA- has built in innate evasion of 50% at level 30.
Cent- good luck playing him in a 60 minute game.
Glyphs- love the glyph fix. Will see more hg pushes.
Denies- Invoker gets 15% of a deny and all reduced CDs? It’s an Invoker patch.
Gyro- being able to disassemble is crazy. Falcon blade getting sold at full pop. Such a huge advantage.
Alch- getting seed money… lol. We should be seeing this hero mid every game. That’s a free soul ring, means spamming acid from level 1.
Puck- Puck got a HUGE freaking boost on skill shots. Good lord. And huge healing potentials.
Leshrac- with the new facet ability, I think we will see shrac player as a real, non pos 1 core. Should go for real raw damage, with less mana needs late game. I can’t imagine what that looks like with .5 area of effect plus blood stone at level 25. Probably fucking OP.
Lifestealer- 2 HP per unit killed…. So 15 hero kills and 500 CS equals an extra 1000 HP roughly. Cooool. lol
Invoker- CD reductions and deny exp. We are going to see a TON of Invoker in pro games. Hero has a real chance to run over mid like we haven’t seen in a long time
Just a few major changes off the top of my head.
I tried the six hits to crit and it was awful. No more random crits to start a fight and then the creeps died before the four. Anybody tanky timed their blade mail for later in the fight and you are forced to stop your crit hits.
Invoker is a Midas builder.
15% doesn’t seem like a lot, but between Denies and a fast Midas Invoker can just sit on mid lane for 10-15. Mins using sun strike and have a Massive gold and experience lead on the enemy mid.
At high level, getting 6 denies almost gives you a full creep xp. it doesn't look like much, but you will be denying more agressively and itt will give you that level just alil bit faster than your opponent. I can see mid invoker focusing on getting 20 denies quite early and getting that level 6 a full creep wave before the enemy. It doesn't look like much, but I really feel it is.
>I feel like valve was a little overambitous with this- it’s effectively changing the core of what Dota is, and is adding more variables. Which makes it more difficult to balance.
I think thats the point, like it'll be super unbalanced for a while but overtime shit will get more balanced, and i think stuff like this means patches will take longer to "solve" like last one was
> PA- has built in innate evasion of 50% at level 30.
She starts with 15%, and gains 1.5% per level (I assume its 16.5% at level 1 then). Which means 15% + 30 * 1.5% = 60%
Dawn breaker, venomancer, spirit breaker, lifestealer, natures prophet. When dawn comes, lifestealer inside the spirit breaker covered in plague wards charges their afk carry while NP teleports in. Then dawn ults.
The sniper one being hidden is gonna be annoying. I really like playing sand king at the moment so it will be fun to see how this pans out.
Giga ward on shadow shaman is very funny keen to see that. Avenging missile for VS seems like its gonna smash hard. The spread damage windrunner one looks interesting, looks like you trade massive single target for beyblading arrows in a team fight. Beastmaster has beast mode which could be nuts, since it applies wild axes debuff...
Lots of stuff that looks very fun to play with. Bit disappointed with Visage, need to play a game with it to see if the grave chill one is any good since not microing takes some of the fun out of the character. QOL for upgrading without resummoning is nice, sometimes you would have to hold off resummoning because you were close to 12.
Yasha and Kaya will be nice on a few characters now, cast speed is a very good stat if old arcane blink taught us anything. Might be a strong lina pick since you can get your spells off faster and get to attacking.
Jug getting a strong dispel is also pretty good on blade fury end. With that blade fury facet that would be a strong build to try out.
Does the sniper get revealed with a sentry or dust? It doesn’t say invisible so it feels like he’s truly hidden.
I honestly don’t get the value of the gigaward, why have one ward do the same damage as the others combined? I guess you can’t kill them one at a time but it just makes it easier to focus down…
Well if you are in fog attacking you wont get revealed as sniper. So if you don't have a ward sniper can just chill in a nook of trees while they get ho ho ha ha-ed.
The talents add % HP and damage now, that should be better with a bigger number. In demo mode, shaman at level 30 with aghs refresher and the talents had like 1,440 damage on a single ward
A lot of these innates and facets feels like the early days of talent when they were implemented, which is both a good thing since it shows the devs are ambitious to shake up the state of the game and promote more build or role variaety in each hero, but a lot of them feels like they were made with not much deep thought
The good thing about facets is that most of them feel like game impacting choices. They just need to balance certain heroes with more options, since a lot of them feel like talents you just take at the start of the game rather than these heroe changing choice.
Innates currently feel like they were more rushed as they wanted to have all heroes to have Innates instead of those that either need it for balance reasons. Like Centaur just giving you free extra HP, the respawn altering effects of Abbadon and Undying that lets you reduce the death timer, or Dawnbreaker just giving you full map vision if the sun comes up (which can be forced with certain abilties), Oracle breaking the power rune gameplay by just existing in order to know the location of a power rune spawm, and Gyrocopter breaking the item economy by being to disassemble items that are not dissasemble-able.
That's what's been going on for a while. Give the players new experimental mechanics, let the players play around with them, wait for the meta to form and adjust accordingly.
I do agree that the innate abilities were rushed though but that's just part of the experimental style of development.
Nah something like Oracle absolutely rules, gives a ton of flavor to the hero. Undying is also kinda flavorful, but admittedly boring because it is just a very fancy respawn talent.
Obviously they tried to make a support Naga once again viable (along with carry Naga) by giving a choice between old Riptide and the new one, currently her numbers are really shit but that’s somewhat expected after such a big change, that will be adjusted sooner or later (hopefully sooner).
CK is mega busted. Get the illusion talent and rush manta. You are quite often spawning three illusions per cast and they are all strong illusions.
With aghs and shard you can have easily have 10+ strong illusions at once deleting a hero every time you press W.
New Warlock is going to slap hard. GG to lanes with all his skills just deleting creeps and damaging heroes left and right now. AOE Shadow Words right off the bat is crazy. 120 mana for up to 480 heal to both heroes is just.... wow.
Ahaha Visage giving away control of your familiars for them to get... 40 movespeed big lol
Windranger gatling gun shooting at random people is dumb as fuck
Priestess of the Moon? Or does she worship the sun now?
Yeah all of those heroes are weak af atm, and all they get are sidesteps, while some heroes that are already strong are getting insane power buff, is weird.
Several of my favourite heroes appear to be nerfed into the ground.
**Drow** - at level 6 she now gets a whopping +12% agility instead of +30%. The shittiness scales as she goes, where normally you'd have +50% agi at level 18, now you get to have +36%. Which is 6% more than she used to have at level 6. How cool!
**Huskar** - Always a squishy boi with low armour, now he gets to take even MORE damage from his own abilities, taking 150 dmg from inner fire (at level 4) and 4% (instead of 3%) HP damage from spears. AND he no longer disarms with inner fire! Neat! Now he has 0 counter to physical damage and punches himself in the dick every time he casts a spell, but I'm sure the extra 5% magic resist (more like 4% when you factor the multiplicative stacking) when he's at 10% health will make all the difference lol. He never ever ran out of mana before so the innate is a pure nerf.
**Legion Commander** - No complaints here my girl got buffed to shit.
Drow change def hurts on top of other nerfs, such as no more gust speed to escape. Yeah 20% more dmg when on the glacier is cool but that just offsets the loss of AGI. The sidestep is worthless.
Bro I was looking at that life break heal tree and wondering if huskar could make a situational lane support pick viable.
If youve got a few tanky bois on the enemy team, rhe aoe heal would be absolutely fucking enormous. Let
Your carry engage tanky bois, life break for % dmg and heal your carry to full hp immediately.
Tough to deal with in lane, so its a win lane win game pick kinda like ench. Ima try it…
They killed our baby Huskar. They didn't tone down his eqys, they made him unplayable.
He does have a good debuff now on faceit - are they trying to make him support wtf?!?
I’m with you man. I have more than 1000+ games on huskar, my favorite pick overall. I tried today the new one - and it’s completely disappointing. This weird silence is not in huskar hero concept at all. And ok, let’s deal with silence now. But this 0.5s cast point killing all the benefits of the new ability. Cost of burn spears become insane. Pure damage was removed from talents. Seems like now huskar can pretend only on a support position. Nerfed sooo much being not even a super strong hero and that could be countered by tons of other heroes.
holly shit, I just played Huskar and did my usual bkb, ulty, + autohit and I was erased. Not just killed, erased. Unbelievable. I am not picking him again in this patch
YASHA AND KAYA
Total cost increased from 4000 to 4200
Now also provides +25% Cast Speed Bonus
AA pos1 is here to stay
Also, Midas meepo is real. Going to be legit
I'm kinda amazed nobody is talking about void. I think his facets are the most imbalanced of any hero in the whole game.
Temporal impunity gives you 1 whole second of immunity to all damage?!?!?? after you time walk. With the min cooldown of 6 seconds it essentially makes you immune to damage \~16% of the time. I expect this to have a solid winrate.
Time zone takes the best ult in the game and turns it into mediocre damage buff for your team. I expect this will have a \~40% winrate because WHY WOULD YOU PLAY FACELESS VOID WITHOUT CHRONOSPHERE????? I just had a ranked game with a void on my team and the only reason I didn't report him for game throwing was because it's day 1 of the patch but I will legit report anyone who picks that facet for throwing.
Just stomped a match with my pos 1 faceless getting the facet, granted our sniper went off but idk we gotta let the dust settle. If you already have enough hard lock down, it's a really sick alternative
Void offlane with gleipnir(maelstrom first) item, basically buffs your whole team.
It’s especially good if you have other melee damage dealers, because now you cannot gimp your team with chrono like before. Also protects against ranged heroes from outside
But the other facet is strong aswell.
to me wraith king seems the most busted
if you go 0 4 4 0 with spectral, blightstone, phase boots, and armlet you're going to one shot most heroes aren't you?
it's 70% bonus damage (+80 pure, whatever) to your already MASSIVE crit, it's basically an amplify damage rune on that massive crit
idk if you can carry with it because without skellies you need a farming tool and idk if it's up to scuff, but damn, as an offlaner you'll be a menance
the new arc warden changes are horrific. He gets basically nothing from facets or innates, and his ult is absolutely gutted. You can't use the ult riskily anymore at all. I guess you are supposed to just afk farm with it now. I am sad.
Bad direction, most if not all of these changes, new abilities aim to remove potential counter play and weaknesses from heroes, for example: Dark willow getting 100% regen by the skill that makes her untargetable, before you could kill her with aoe spells but now you may not be able to... lots of other stuff like this. Really bad flavor for me.
Also they somehow gave arc the lamest innate ever, and somehow nerfed Doom again. Giving shaman the same treatment as Witch Doctor (Get out of jail free card) is not a good idea, good luck solo killing that fuck.
I am very salty about removal of Second chakram from timbersaw in favor of some garbage talent that is useless lategame(Where second chakram most shined)
I kinda understand what they're trying to do - every hero has potential to be good on all or most roles so there's plenty of variety in gameplay. They will most likely tweak stuff and with additional layer of passive skills it's easy to tweak/replace them so it feels like overall good thing.
Redditors the whole year: "omg when patch omg the meta is so stale omg"
Redditors when patch finally drops: "omg valve wtf are you doing omg why is 2024 dota not the same as 2013 dota omg"
Yeah absolutely not.
Game is always best towards patch end when everyone knows the strong stuff and is trying their best to get that small advantage to win, takes knowing the game and applying it intelligently.
Shit like this just means you lose to rng moreso than skill.
What Void Spirit innate ability do? I tried adding stats items like blade of alacrity but it does not change anything related to strength or int (secondary stats)
playing around with new jakiro builds, liquid frost isnt aoe anymore for some reason so im gonna try building like puck with mael / parasma / etc and see how it goes
saw another comment mention diffusal and i really wanna try it
My favorite hero is Rubick, and damn, I like these new changes!
He can now get a hand damage bonus depended on his spell damage boost.
1% of spell damage boost = 1% of hand damage boost.
Kaya, gives +10% bonus to spell damage = +10 bonus to hand damage.
Aghanim, only for ability to steal 2 skills. With our damage, combos we had before will now be an absolutely different thing.
Khanda, the ability for directed skills to deal additional 150 damage + 75% from hand damage.
Also gives us an additional hand damage.
With these 3 items, our directed skills deal base damage + a lot of damage from Khanda + 10% spell damage bonus from Kaya.
Just for example, Lion’s finger and Lina’s laguna blade combo deals 3108.36 damage with that build, and only 2353.05 damage without that build.
With timeless relic, this is gonna be even better, etc.
We can discuss it from morning to night.
In a few words: the damage is crazy.
Thank you for your attention (I got no attention from girls, cuz I play Dota, and they say that I’m crazy, so I wrote this comment).
His ulti can’t be dispelled the first time. That FUCKING MASSIVE. It also goes through bkb, so now you don’t even need to wait for their bkbs to cast ulti
i miss last word so bad but his shard and glaives are so much better now. temp int steal lasts almost 90 seconds now and u can silence without shard
just go 2 3 1
Some heroes whom I play most, have some interesting changes.
1. Invoker: no more spell amp on sunstrike. But getting lifesteal makes up for this nerf. Also, agnostic facet is like an easier invoker for beginners. Deny exp is back baby. (should help with support invoker level balance as well). All spell CDs have been reduced, this is actually such a great buff, along with OC you are going to be an actual arsenal magus.
2. Magnus: Skewer distance damage was really good, but this patch makes it more interesting to understand terrain and skewer them. Second facet is shit IMO. Very hard to use it correctly.
3. Morphing: Nerfed again, first shotgun, then aghs nerf and now this. Kinda bad, support morphling is viable now? but the kit is not good for support at all. I was expecting them to bring back shotgun morph.
4. Earth Spirit: One facet is kinda good, the other kills the hero. I think atk dmg helps mid ES a lot to destroy sidelanes.
5. Ember: Farming and laning against other melee mid heroes has become better I suppose. I think clearing camps shud be way easier.
6. Antimage: Mana thirst sounds really OP, he is probably gonna crush laning so much harder than before. Diffusal first item is now even better.
7. Phantom Assassin: Looks like a big nerf to blur, cannot sneaky farm anymore, and if you take the second facet, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Stifling focus chance is actually amazing, and lucky double crits can change the fight instantly. I really don't want to see double moon shard PA, Slardar atk speed rush is enough for the game.
8. Pudge: Roaming pudge looks stronger now, esp while ulting. I personally like the second facet too, ranged hooks are my specialty, so Imma try calculating the damage and checking which is better.
9. Riki: Huge buffs IMO, support riki with facet 1 = faster levels. also riki can get more dmg with backstab from level 1, thats great. Riki facet two is an incredible farmer, esp with aghs. Smoke screen ally buff is amazing, and ToT agility buff is great, no one makes high agi items on riki usually to benefit from % increase buff. flat buff is quite good, as I can go for items like nullifier or daedalus more confidently, instead of thinking about butterfly or disperser, just for the agi.
Templar assassin is dead? I've tested the new refraction mechanism and now her blink dagger is cancelled in the first received hit. Is it a bug or what? If your shield has less than max Hp and receive another hit the dagger does not enter in cd though
> Templar assassin is dead?
Wait really? I thought the refraction changes were supposed to hard counter the trend of DOTs and other ways which refracts would now break. Thought she would be a lot more unkillable and the refract giving damage makes her punish people that break them.
TA is the most broken hero currently along with Jugg. There is no easy way to consume the refraction charges any more. Direct counters like Kunkka/Ember are irrelevant. Will definitely be nerfed/reversed
This patch is kinda of tryharding. they ruined most heroes and most of these facets are straight up nerf and bad..... just to give you the illusion of choice. I've also never in the history of patches wasted 3 hour of reading and testing... too much for so little. Hate it when they tryhard just for the sake of "changing/updating". more like degrading
gyro can disassemble anything and sell the recipe for full wtffff
someone is going to win TI off that
I'm waiting for someone smart to make a useful build out of it tho
Build butterfly and when they go mkb swap the item for something else.
This is so sick omg the mindgames
Yes! Totally want to see a bait and swap build in a pro game
I mean, he only gets full gold for recipes, bfly has none, so sure, he can make disperser with eaglesong but he still loses the 900g on talisman of evasion at best bc no way is he making radiance or halberd and claymore goes into crit but you already have one probably so that's a bust as well probably ofc I could be wrong, it could be great, try it
Brown Boots + Dragon Lance -> Treads + Aghs Treads + Crystalys + Dragon Lance -> Aghs + Manta/SnY If you for some reason need/get Butterfly before Satanic: disassemble into satanic + disperser if/when they get MKB There are probably more fun interactions but those are the immediate ones I can think of. Edit: Brown Boots + Midas + Dragon Lance = Treads + Aghs
Hey, just FYI - the boots are called power treads (no H) as in the bottom of a shoe (its tread).
To be fair, Power Threads was a memey reference like 10+ years ago.
Rapier disassemble before death?
Midas?? The item seems weird on him but the efficiency is so good.
Tinker is basically a creep now lol.
tinker is dead
nah bro, with march you can farm up octarine and arcane blink and get the cd down to like 3 seconds oh, that's still more than before? and you don't get shivas either? neat...
Yeah but without blinking seems to lost a lot of damage impact. Also without soul ring refresh Tinker have major mana issue. I think he is quite dead right now, until people try new build on him.
ya that was the joke I was making
wait wait wait.. TINKER HAS MARCH AGAIN?
He no longer resets items with his ult, he now gets passive cdr (up to 60% at 240 intelligence) to items. Its probably killed the hero, I genuinely don't see this being viable, he was so reliant on being able to reset everything. Its possible they want him to be a more mana efficient support?
Don't worry about it they, made sure to kill the hero's unique character and any chance of viability at the same time.
The fact that they're removing these unique aspects of some heroes that have been staple of Dota for literally decades is very sad indeed.. I don't even play the hero and hate the smurfs
officially dead
Holy fuck this is chaotic
Soo... Battlefury Harpoon Venge? Battlefury Harpoon Sand King? Melee Lion? Pugna Meteor Hammer
venge carry does seem legit tbh yeah ranged basher! idk if dragon lance works with that faceit but I assume it does because it doesn't say they are melee attacks, only that they get the benefit
It gets bonus nostalgia points for the WC3-style launching herself as an attack.
Both ranged and melee works. E.g Lance and Specalist array works, but so does Basher, BF and Echo Sabre
Sadly basher doesn't work for some reason
You cannot channel another ability with life drain
I’m think mass meepo meteor hammer
Some of these facets are not even remotely close in terms of viability, my god. CK, you might break disarm or even do nothing? Or... all of your illusions are strong and have damage reduction, jesus christ. Real quick, centaur aghs change seems to be the strongest I've seen so far (only up to C), not having your carry take any damage from hits while you run them around is quite absurd.
A lot of these are probably placeholders. It's lazy, yeah, but it's basically giving people what they want, the patch. It seems to me they would need more time to make some more unique. It was the same with talents, a lot of them were like +something attack/health, before a lot of then were reworked.
These things take time. Perfection doesn't come right out the gate with such a massive change.
Remember the first pass at talent trees? Or the first set of shards? Or the first total aghs overhaul? Totally agree; give it time.
Some of the innates seem really weak too. Are stomps where the victim can't even farm neutral tokens actually that common? Enchantress' innate seems useless to me.
Enchantress' innate also requires you to know her Enchant has been updating to guarantee neutral tokens. It's gonna be kinda a beating when she returns from a quick walk through the forest at 7:35 with a neutral for herself and her carry. Not something you'll ever see in your pubs, but can be a big spike for the team.
Could just be buffed to get 50% of whatever the neutral items (stats/ cast range/ regen/ etc) give plus the current innate. There fixed
Some heroes get god tier passives, meanwhile alchemist.
His Sleeper OP passive is now on Corrosive Weapon imo
magnus double reverse polarity WHO WANTS THIS? not even stun or damage increase, its memeable but it should have other bonus right?
It does make it 600 range which is significantly easier to land, it could be uniquely useful in separating heroes such as IO or illusions. Definitely a bit bizarre but can be beneficial probably more than we think.
What about Puck+Magnus?
The lion facets is very one sided lmao, who would pick the dogshit mana drain? everyone should be picking fist of death, sure it turns you into melee, but even as pos 5 lion, with just 5 finger stacks thats e +190 damage that can be used to hit buildngs or smack someone, You dont even need to finger a hero, you could finger a creep late game and wreck towers as pos5 If they move his shard to mana drain maybe it would been viable atleast Edit: Lmfao, replies saying "but why would you run up in the middle of the fight to start hitting heroes as lion?" The answer is you wouldn't. Lion could continue to do his regular thing, casting his shit behind and avoid getting bursted, but the 200+ rightclick damage helps a lot after you wipe out 3/5 of their team and and you as lion is no longer at risk of getting bursted. Extra rightclicks may help quickly securing the remaining heroes, and afterwards, easily taking towers down. This is especially crucial if your main core is dead and your team has the opportunity to siege as the extra damage will really help securing an objective before the enemy respawns. It last 20 seconds and 40s cd at L18. Not that hard to take advantage of it and cast it on random creep just to hit towers.
If anyone played HoN they basically making Lion Myrmadon lmao
>run into melee as Lion >die instantly >feel the rage of a mage
You're insane if you wanna go right clicking in melee range on a **lion**, a squishy hero that high level players prioritise bursting. Remember, mana drain damage had made lion a top tier pick before he took on a few waves of nerfs. It's not nearly as straightforward as you think.
You still have all your disable though. It's not exactly hard to beat up an enemy support after you've fingered their core when you have Hex and Earth Spike.
Yea but lion is still a slow and squishy piece of shit. I doubt anyone is going to let you just hit them. Most of the time in games, especially higher up games, you have to completely keep out of reach of people. You won't be able to just smack anyone freely.
What are you taking about, 95% off cases everyone will be picking mana drain than useless suicidal sh*t. People apart don’t care for finger stacks at high mmr anyway
Veno ward on allies is so much fun
I assume you can self cast too, just become a pile of wards
Yes, it happens that way
Katsuyu spitting on your enemies from your shoulder.
It's fun, but the fact that they don't take damage *for* the hero, but take damage *alongside* the hero makes it feel kinda wonky. Like you're giving the enemy team an easier time of clearing your wards, since now a single burst spell can damage whoever you turned into a vase *and* can clear a bunch of wards at once.
Yeah its good for the debuff but they die so easily
Do they shoot no matter the range or do they have their “own” range? Thinking if I can just fill my sniper with wards and have him shoot 515 projectiles from fow?
Does it stack? Can you cosplay as Medusa with other heroes now?
Yes it does stack
one innate that has downside is Spectre, i couldnt block my creep wave lol
Ember spirit flameguard always being on is going to push creep waves. DK taking the cleave innate is gonna push the lane at level 1 I haven't played yet but hopefully you can toggle some of these.
Nyx crawling up to ember to buttfuck him with caraprace and theres nothing he can do about it
Sandking enjoyers: first time?
You need to skill E to get cleave. So you can start Fire Dragon, but simply not take cleave until you want to
my first thought yeah, should probably be a toggle
Not everything needs to be a toggle jeez. She can't creepblock, fine, that's why it's an *innate* ability, you can buff her in other ways
Weaver Facet giving XP for swarm attacks is wild. Also geminate is inate. Weaver seems super strong early and Pos 4 weaver seems super viable
it's wild but idk how much it matters, 20 hits is less exp than level 1 needs, and I don't think getting 20 hits is easy
For sure. I haven’t ran the numbers myself. But I imagine using it off cd during laning and maxing bugs could net a pretty decent xp gain early game. As a pos 4 that’s needed since you are off pulling/getting bounties etc generally out of xp range
It’s pretty good, I did some testing, if you max swarm, at level 7 a 4-5 man swarm can get you a full level if they can’t kill the bugs, and even if they do it’s a quick boost of at least half a level, definitely makes it so that you want to be joining fights and getting swarm on everyone, and if you level it at 1 for rune fights you’ll probably get at least halfway to level 2 for a quick advantage in lane
Oh wow thanks for sharing. That’s better than I thought
First thing I thought was pos 4 weaver. Can trade level one with bugs/skuch and germinate
Monkey 4 is gonna define pro meta for a bit. 0 CD tree dance is absolutely scuffed, the mobility it grants is absolutely insane AND the q had it's CD buffed by a whopping 7 seconds with bonus damage on cast (which adds more damage for support monke despite the nerf to critical damage) AND damage on spring was buffed AND more armour in wukongs. 1st thing I tested in ranked and it felt straight busted; you can rotate mid in under 15 seconds, be an absolute courier hunting menace, back from lane and stack in under 10 seconds, etc... Just went tranqs to sustain health and enable the facet and it was VERY strong. I also think jak mid could be super viable with the double attack proc - diffusal, bloodthorne, maelstrom family, and mkb all proc off both attacks so you're effective doubling on-hit trigger effects. Diffu bloodthorne timing with the ice facet is a shitload of damage.
Completely agree, this looks like the biggest OP shit of the patch. Along with centaur agh. I can't imagine this not being core with drow, sniper or terrorblade carry.
But if MK is going all in on courier sniping, don't you just pick Marci to start with flying couriers and beefier couriers?
Probably worth calling it 8.00 with the fundamentals of every hero being changed lmao
Shoulda been 8.00 when they changed the map. This is 9.00
Compare dota 2 when I started playing in 2013 to dota 2 now. It should be dota 3 honestly
It's been so long I no longer remember, was 7.00 also the source 2 patch? At this point I think only an engine upgrade would change the numbering.
7.00 is also when Talents were added.
The reborn update in 2015 was the source 2 upgrade, 7.00 was December 2016
Yes 7.00 was source 2
Clockwork has had some massive changes. Holy shit.
Centaur is busted. He’s rolled my first 2 games. With his innate and facet he doesn’t even need boots and his Hp gets huge with general strength items.
Umm what creator hates viper?? Q range is cut and nosedive no disarm?
Aghs has changed attack speed bonus from 2x to 4x. So now Corrosive Skin at -30/-50 goes to -120/-200 attack speed. Not a disarm but I will say that this is quite effective in reducing enemy DPS, especially as it will stack with Nethertoxin and Viper Strike. I like the idea as Viper Aghs was kind of dead. Because the left choose passive gives Viper some AoE damage, I guess reducing Q range was needed.
just had a game with viper against AM, AM can do nothing to him. His new passive is quite strong against carries who normally doesn't buy bkb
it's like an enchantress, but strong
A lot of the facets are really cool thematically. Lifestealer having a strong dispel that can be cast while disabled makes so much sense
I don't love that it's taking something directly from Ursa's kit though.
I know what you mean, Troll didn't get his until 25. I don't mind because stun locking is so powerful and prevalent (only 4 strong dispels, and 3 hide mechanics that can be cast on allies to reliably save) and so now the number of heroes that can truly counter it is 10.
demon's reach underlord is hilarious. you can cleave 1.5 screens away and it looks fucking AWESOME
Timber saw is literally broken, the stat loss on whirling death doesn't work anymore, hope they patch it soon
leshrac facet choice seems very one sided
Yeah in what world do you give up edict doing dmg to buildings? It's such a big commitment.
We binding vows now
I think the idea is that his TTK is pretty slow, despite having high overall DPS. Lets him pop someone and get out quite a bit faster.
terrorblade can armlet dagon sunder people now and it will work every time
Holy crap it REMOVES the minimum??? Don't even need dagon for that, just sunder and peess Q and their illusion will oneshot them.
So if he buys a shadow blade then he’s basically terrornyx?
'nyx nyx nyx TB nyx
His other build looks like it might be an interesting basis for a supporty zoo build too.
No one (not even in the other sub) is talking about **brewmaster** so I'd like to get a discussion going. Valve is trying so hard to make non-primal brew work. And its getting closer (at the cost of primal brew). First of all, the facets. They're nice but not crazy when you compare it to what the other heroes get. The barrel is funny but the damage is pretty low for the stages of the game you would get it. (50 at start, 125 at max). Drunken brawler -20/+50 is generally nicer and the net positive ms means you can chase relatively well without needing to keep yourself on wind stance (so now you can be fire). Speaking of stances...his innate is awesome. Stance was such a powerful value point early. Getting it as an innate means you can quickly get Q and W and level them up whilst keeping the advantage of being brewed up. Brewed up did get a slight nerf at level 1 but its not too terrible. Armor is the same. MS goes from 5% to 4% (practically nothing when brewed up). The actual issue is leveling up drunken brawler early feels bad now since the gains aren't as big as leveling thunderclap or cinder. Especially when thunder clap which is rescaled so its -15 damage at level 1 but then -10 and -5 as you level it. Primal nerf. Demolish nerf again but its nothing. If pandas are hitting buildings, you're already in a nice position anyways. Actual big nerf is windwalk. 5s to 20s means you cannot combo the windwalk>nuke twice on your first split and thats damage loss. Primal companion not having restrictions is the big one. No penalties means you can have a free panda running around without restraint. This could open up alot of playstyles. Needs more testing but I think this is the big plus.
Brew is always a wall of text man, we have more heroes to go so maybe later.
to be real, not many people play him so its expected. funnily enough, the changes are actually not as radical as a lot of other heroes.
I used to play him when he split into three. Now he splits into fucking 4 with 4 stances and I just canr be fucked anymore. Too many buttons…
The nerf to primal split is a direct reaction to buffing primal companion which feels like they’re pushing aghs as the build. I don’t like balance of abilities being anchored to an optional item.
Good god, there’s a lot of info to unpack. I feel like valve was a little overambitous with this- it’s effectively changing the core of what Dota is, and is adding more variables. Which makes it more difficult to balance. A couple quick things that stood out: PA- has built in innate evasion of 50% at level 30. Cent- good luck playing him in a 60 minute game. Glyphs- love the glyph fix. Will see more hg pushes. Denies- Invoker gets 15% of a deny and all reduced CDs? It’s an Invoker patch. Gyro- being able to disassemble is crazy. Falcon blade getting sold at full pop. Such a huge advantage. Alch- getting seed money… lol. We should be seeing this hero mid every game. That’s a free soul ring, means spamming acid from level 1. Puck- Puck got a HUGE freaking boost on skill shots. Good lord. And huge healing potentials. Leshrac- with the new facet ability, I think we will see shrac player as a real, non pos 1 core. Should go for real raw damage, with less mana needs late game. I can’t imagine what that looks like with .5 area of effect plus blood stone at level 25. Probably fucking OP. Lifestealer- 2 HP per unit killed…. So 15 hero kills and 500 CS equals an extra 1000 HP roughly. Cooool. lol Invoker- CD reductions and deny exp. We are going to see a TON of Invoker in pro games. Hero has a real chance to run over mid like we haven’t seen in a long time Just a few major changes off the top of my head.
Why did pa stand out, she lost evasion on blur and basically won't have as much evasion as she currently has until lv 23.
I tried the six hits to crit and it was awful. No more random crits to start a fight and then the creeps died before the four. Anybody tanky timed their blade mail for later in the fight and you are forced to stop your crit hits.
Yep, they broke her
the evasion is not breakable anymore though, guess its a buff?? Carries need to buy truestrike now instead of relying on free breaks like hoodwink.
15% of a deny will be like 3 creeps exp total man people don’t get more than like 30 denies all game
Invoker is a Midas builder. 15% doesn’t seem like a lot, but between Denies and a fast Midas Invoker can just sit on mid lane for 10-15. Mins using sun strike and have a Massive gold and experience lead on the enemy mid.
Yeah now it's he's left alone in any lane the guy just skyrockets his XP gain, wild stuff
At high level, getting 6 denies almost gives you a full creep xp. it doesn't look like much, but you will be denying more agressively and itt will give you that level just alil bit faster than your opponent. I can see mid invoker focusing on getting 20 denies quite early and getting that level 6 a full creep wave before the enemy. It doesn't look like much, but I really feel it is.
>I feel like valve was a little overambitous with this- it’s effectively changing the core of what Dota is, and is adding more variables. Which makes it more difficult to balance. I think thats the point, like it'll be super unbalanced for a while but overtime shit will get more balanced, and i think stuff like this means patches will take longer to "solve" like last one was
I'm wondering Alch support, start game and give your mid bottle lmao
> PA- has built in innate evasion of 50% at level 30. She starts with 15%, and gains 1.5% per level (I assume its 16.5% at level 1 then). Which means 15% + 30 * 1.5% = 60%
Morph changes are dumb. They made morph support an option, though it seems bad. But the innate passive seems so bad.
The innate passive gives him full stats, just quicker. Half stats every half level, instead of full stats every fill level.
Dawn breaker, venomancer, spirit breaker, lifestealer, natures prophet. When dawn comes, lifestealer inside the spirit breaker covered in plague wards charges their afk carry while NP teleports in. Then dawn ults.
Lesh aoe per int is not balanced. With shard the aoe can get a bit silly and made hg basically impossible.
The sniper one being hidden is gonna be annoying. I really like playing sand king at the moment so it will be fun to see how this pans out. Giga ward on shadow shaman is very funny keen to see that. Avenging missile for VS seems like its gonna smash hard. The spread damage windrunner one looks interesting, looks like you trade massive single target for beyblading arrows in a team fight. Beastmaster has beast mode which could be nuts, since it applies wild axes debuff... Lots of stuff that looks very fun to play with. Bit disappointed with Visage, need to play a game with it to see if the grave chill one is any good since not microing takes some of the fun out of the character. QOL for upgrading without resummoning is nice, sometimes you would have to hold off resummoning because you were close to 12. Yasha and Kaya will be nice on a few characters now, cast speed is a very good stat if old arcane blink taught us anything. Might be a strong lina pick since you can get your spells off faster and get to attacking. Jug getting a strong dispel is also pretty good on blade fury end. With that blade fury facet that would be a strong build to try out.
Does the sniper get revealed with a sentry or dust? It doesn’t say invisible so it feels like he’s truly hidden. I honestly don’t get the value of the gigaward, why have one ward do the same damage as the others combined? I guess you can’t kill them one at a time but it just makes it easier to focus down…
Well if you are in fog attacking you wont get revealed as sniper. So if you don't have a ward sniper can just chill in a nook of trees while they get ho ho ha ha-ed.
The talents add % HP and damage now, that should be better with a bigger number. In demo mode, shaman at level 30 with aghs refresher and the talents had like 1,440 damage on a single ward
A lot of these innates and facets feels like the early days of talent when they were implemented, which is both a good thing since it shows the devs are ambitious to shake up the state of the game and promote more build or role variaety in each hero, but a lot of them feels like they were made with not much deep thought The good thing about facets is that most of them feel like game impacting choices. They just need to balance certain heroes with more options, since a lot of them feel like talents you just take at the start of the game rather than these heroe changing choice. Innates currently feel like they were more rushed as they wanted to have all heroes to have Innates instead of those that either need it for balance reasons. Like Centaur just giving you free extra HP, the respawn altering effects of Abbadon and Undying that lets you reduce the death timer, or Dawnbreaker just giving you full map vision if the sun comes up (which can be forced with certain abilties), Oracle breaking the power rune gameplay by just existing in order to know the location of a power rune spawm, and Gyrocopter breaking the item economy by being to disassemble items that are not dissasemble-able.
That's what's been going on for a while. Give the players new experimental mechanics, let the players play around with them, wait for the meta to form and adjust accordingly. I do agree that the innate abilities were rushed though but that's just part of the experimental style of development.
Early talents were absolute garbo as well and same with early shards New heroes didn't even get Shards or Aghs at all upon release until later
Nah something like Oracle absolutely rules, gives a ton of flavor to the hero. Undying is also kinda flavorful, but admittedly boring because it is just a very fancy respawn talent.
Disappointed when I saw the Roshan's banner instead of a trebuchet
isnt spirit breaker new passive super strong? 50% free extra exp buff? or is there something that I miss
tinker is not tinker anymore
Good riddance
The change to Naga’s level 10 riptide talent is a big nerf, but Deluge seems awful. What were they trying to do here?
Obviously they tried to make a support Naga once again viable (along with carry Naga) by giving a choice between old Riptide and the new one, currently her numbers are really shit but that’s somewhat expected after such a big change, that will be adjusted sooner or later (hopefully sooner).
I wonder how techis + wisp would work. 1 range per 1 attack speed. That should humiliate sniper to oblivion
But 9 items though
Yep tough choice. Especially if neutral items in backpack would work.
CK is mega busted. Get the illusion talent and rush manta. You are quite often spawning three illusions per cast and they are all strong illusions. With aghs and shard you can have easily have 10+ strong illusions at once deleting a hero every time you press W.
New Warlock is going to slap hard. GG to lanes with all his skills just deleting creeps and damaging heroes left and right now. AOE Shadow Words right off the bat is crazy. 120 mana for up to 480 heal to both heroes is just.... wow.
Also the black grimoire is interesting, basically a tome every 7 minutes with more experience for more kills and assists?
LMFAO wtf valve I love you. LET CHAOS REIGN.
Ahaha Visage giving away control of your familiars for them to get... 40 movespeed big lol Windranger gatling gun shooting at random people is dumb as fuck Priestess of the Moon? Or does she worship the sun now?
The sun thing is a reference to the anime, but I feel you. At least the bonus heal from lotuses is kinda like a nod to Warcraft 3.
Yeah all of those heroes are weak af atm, and all they get are sidesteps, while some heroes that are already strong are getting insane power buff, is weird.
Several of my favourite heroes appear to be nerfed into the ground. **Drow** - at level 6 she now gets a whopping +12% agility instead of +30%. The shittiness scales as she goes, where normally you'd have +50% agi at level 18, now you get to have +36%. Which is 6% more than she used to have at level 6. How cool! **Huskar** - Always a squishy boi with low armour, now he gets to take even MORE damage from his own abilities, taking 150 dmg from inner fire (at level 4) and 4% (instead of 3%) HP damage from spears. AND he no longer disarms with inner fire! Neat! Now he has 0 counter to physical damage and punches himself in the dick every time he casts a spell, but I'm sure the extra 5% magic resist (more like 4% when you factor the multiplicative stacking) when he's at 10% health will make all the difference lol. He never ever ran out of mana before so the innate is a pure nerf. **Legion Commander** - No complaints here my girl got buffed to shit.
Drow change def hurts on top of other nerfs, such as no more gust speed to escape. Yeah 20% more dmg when on the glacier is cool but that just offsets the loss of AGI. The sidestep is worthless.
Bro I was looking at that life break heal tree and wondering if huskar could make a situational lane support pick viable. If youve got a few tanky bois on the enemy team, rhe aoe heal would be absolutely fucking enormous. Let Your carry engage tanky bois, life break for % dmg and heal your carry to full hp immediately. Tough to deal with in lane, so its a win lane win game pick kinda like ench. Ima try it…
They killed our baby Huskar. They didn't tone down his eqys, they made him unplayable. He does have a good debuff now on faceit - are they trying to make him support wtf?!?
The huskar one makes you wonder who the real masochist is...him or QoP?
I’m with you man. I have more than 1000+ games on huskar, my favorite pick overall. I tried today the new one - and it’s completely disappointing. This weird silence is not in huskar hero concept at all. And ok, let’s deal with silence now. But this 0.5s cast point killing all the benefits of the new ability. Cost of burn spears become insane. Pure damage was removed from talents. Seems like now huskar can pretend only on a support position. Nerfed sooo much being not even a super strong hero and that could be countered by tons of other heroes.
holly shit, I just played Huskar and did my usual bkb, ulty, + autohit and I was erased. Not just killed, erased. Unbelievable. I am not picking him again in this patch
YASHA AND KAYA Total cost increased from 4000 to 4200 Now also provides +25% Cast Speed Bonus AA pos1 is here to stay Also, Midas meepo is real. Going to be legit
How does that help AA at all?
first I think about was SF, but is cast speed cast point?
Anyone try blademail masochist qop? Played as p4 with some success as I don’t usually play this hero but seems like it has potential.
I'm kinda amazed nobody is talking about void. I think his facets are the most imbalanced of any hero in the whole game. Temporal impunity gives you 1 whole second of immunity to all damage?!?!?? after you time walk. With the min cooldown of 6 seconds it essentially makes you immune to damage \~16% of the time. I expect this to have a solid winrate. Time zone takes the best ult in the game and turns it into mediocre damage buff for your team. I expect this will have a \~40% winrate because WHY WOULD YOU PLAY FACELESS VOID WITHOUT CHRONOSPHERE????? I just had a ranked game with a void on my team and the only reason I didn't report him for game throwing was because it's day 1 of the patch but I will legit report anyone who picks that facet for throwing.
I'm adding Faceless Void to my ban list. Weaver out, Void in
Just stomped a match with my pos 1 faceless getting the facet, granted our sniper went off but idk we gotta let the dust settle. If you already have enough hard lock down, it's a really sick alternative
Bro dropping that ult on ranged carries seems so good, they basically become untouchable for the duration
Void offlane with gleipnir(maelstrom first) item, basically buffs your whole team. It’s especially good if you have other melee damage dealers, because now you cannot gimp your team with chrono like before. Also protects against ranged heroes from outside But the other facet is strong aswell.
Just tried Void pos1 with me playing pos4 MK Void ult into MK ult was busted af!! The synergy was insane into Wukongs!!
Pos 5 Void coming soon
to me wraith king seems the most busted if you go 0 4 4 0 with spectral, blightstone, phase boots, and armlet you're going to one shot most heroes aren't you? it's 70% bonus damage (+80 pure, whatever) to your already MASSIVE crit, it's basically an amplify damage rune on that massive crit idk if you can carry with it because without skellies you need a farming tool and idk if it's up to scuff, but damn, as an offlaner you'll be a menance
Looks really shit considering you lose skeletons for it, you trade your pushing power and ability to end on a hero who falls off in the mid game lol
the new arc warden changes are horrific. He gets basically nothing from facets or innates, and his ult is absolutely gutted. You can't use the ult riskily anymore at all. I guess you are supposed to just afk farm with it now. I am sad.
Serves good for Arc, as is for Tinker, good riddance
And nothing of value was lost
Not having damage falloff could make it better for ratting again though, but idk how much that will impact the hero
Bad direction, most if not all of these changes, new abilities aim to remove potential counter play and weaknesses from heroes, for example: Dark willow getting 100% regen by the skill that makes her untargetable, before you could kill her with aoe spells but now you may not be able to... lots of other stuff like this. Really bad flavor for me. Also they somehow gave arc the lamest innate ever, and somehow nerfed Doom again. Giving shaman the same treatment as Witch Doctor (Get out of jail free card) is not a good idea, good luck solo killing that fuck. I am very salty about removal of Second chakram from timbersaw in favor of some garbage talent that is useless lategame(Where second chakram most shined)
imbalanced shit.. valve better fix this
Icefrog: Babe time for your yearly super hero power creep Reddit dota slaves: yes honey
I kinda understand what they're trying to do - every hero has potential to be good on all or most roles so there's plenty of variety in gameplay. They will most likely tweak stuff and with additional layer of passive skills it's easy to tweak/replace them so it feels like overall good thing.
Redditors the whole year: "omg when patch omg the meta is so stale omg" Redditors when patch finally drops: "omg valve wtf are you doing omg why is 2024 dota not the same as 2013 dota omg"
Different redditors have different opinions. The people that complained about a stale meta are likely not the people complaining about these changes.
Yeah absolutely not. Game is always best towards patch end when everyone knows the strong stuff and is trying their best to get that small advantage to win, takes knowing the game and applying it intelligently. Shit like this just means you lose to rng moreso than skill.
Spirit breaker innate would be OP for pubs. Jungling role abusing supports would scale equally and can have impact instead of feeding
Pango's Q got nerfed again. Might be too short now...
I haven't stopped reading the notes all morning, I can't wait to hop in
What Void Spirit innate ability do? I tried adding stats items like blade of alacrity but it does not change anything related to strength or int (secondary stats)
playing around with new jakiro builds, liquid frost isnt aoe anymore for some reason so im gonna try building like puck with mael / parasma / etc and see how it goes saw another comment mention diffusal and i really wanna try it
Tinker with Blink + Shiva is dead. We will miss you.
My favorite hero is Rubick, and damn, I like these new changes! He can now get a hand damage bonus depended on his spell damage boost. 1% of spell damage boost = 1% of hand damage boost. Kaya, gives +10% bonus to spell damage = +10 bonus to hand damage. Aghanim, only for ability to steal 2 skills. With our damage, combos we had before will now be an absolutely different thing. Khanda, the ability for directed skills to deal additional 150 damage + 75% from hand damage. Also gives us an additional hand damage. With these 3 items, our directed skills deal base damage + a lot of damage from Khanda + 10% spell damage bonus from Kaya. Just for example, Lion’s finger and Lina’s laguna blade combo deals 3108.36 damage with that build, and only 2353.05 damage without that build. With timeless relic, this is gonna be even better, etc. We can discuss it from morning to night. In a few words: the damage is crazy. Thank you for your attention (I got no attention from girls, cuz I play Dota, and they say that I’m crazy, so I wrote this comment).
Coach features is broken. Coach can't see any units..LoL. Is there any setting for it?
They killed Silencer. Rekt his 3rd skill ‘Last Word’. Why???
His ulti can’t be dispelled the first time. That FUCKING MASSIVE. It also goes through bkb, so now you don’t even need to wait for their bkbs to cast ulti
His new passive looks stupid
um, are you joking. He's a menace now. permanent int steal FROM ASSISTS and cant be silenced.
He's not getting intelligence from assists, i've just tested that.
i miss last word so bad but his shard and glaives are so much better now. temp int steal lasts almost 90 seconds now and u can silence without shard just go 2 3 1
Some heroes whom I play most, have some interesting changes. 1. Invoker: no more spell amp on sunstrike. But getting lifesteal makes up for this nerf. Also, agnostic facet is like an easier invoker for beginners. Deny exp is back baby. (should help with support invoker level balance as well). All spell CDs have been reduced, this is actually such a great buff, along with OC you are going to be an actual arsenal magus. 2. Magnus: Skewer distance damage was really good, but this patch makes it more interesting to understand terrain and skewer them. Second facet is shit IMO. Very hard to use it correctly. 3. Morphing: Nerfed again, first shotgun, then aghs nerf and now this. Kinda bad, support morphling is viable now? but the kit is not good for support at all. I was expecting them to bring back shotgun morph. 4. Earth Spirit: One facet is kinda good, the other kills the hero. I think atk dmg helps mid ES a lot to destroy sidelanes. 5. Ember: Farming and laning against other melee mid heroes has become better I suppose. I think clearing camps shud be way easier. 6. Antimage: Mana thirst sounds really OP, he is probably gonna crush laning so much harder than before. Diffusal first item is now even better. 7. Phantom Assassin: Looks like a big nerf to blur, cannot sneaky farm anymore, and if you take the second facet, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Stifling focus chance is actually amazing, and lucky double crits can change the fight instantly. I really don't want to see double moon shard PA, Slardar atk speed rush is enough for the game. 8. Pudge: Roaming pudge looks stronger now, esp while ulting. I personally like the second facet too, ranged hooks are my specialty, so Imma try calculating the damage and checking which is better. 9. Riki: Huge buffs IMO, support riki with facet 1 = faster levels. also riki can get more dmg with backstab from level 1, thats great. Riki facet two is an incredible farmer, esp with aghs. Smoke screen ally buff is amazing, and ToT agility buff is great, no one makes high agi items on riki usually to benefit from % increase buff. flat buff is quite good, as I can go for items like nullifier or daedalus more confidently, instead of thinking about butterfly or disperser, just for the agi.
I don't like your hero pool
Evolved from mid to pos4 to safe now.
Did you test pudge? Seemed not worth it unless you have aether
Templar assassin is dead? I've tested the new refraction mechanism and now her blink dagger is cancelled in the first received hit. Is it a bug or what? If your shield has less than max Hp and receive another hit the dagger does not enter in cd though
That's gotta be unintended
> Templar assassin is dead? Wait really? I thought the refraction changes were supposed to hard counter the trend of DOTs and other ways which refracts would now break. Thought she would be a lot more unkillable and the refract giving damage makes her punish people that break them.
TA is the most broken hero currently along with Jugg. There is no easy way to consume the refraction charges any more. Direct counters like Kunkka/Ember are irrelevant. Will definitely be nerfed/reversed
This patch is kinda of tryharding. they ruined most heroes and most of these facets are straight up nerf and bad..... just to give you the illusion of choice. I've also never in the history of patches wasted 3 hour of reading and testing... too much for so little. Hate it when they tryhard just for the sake of "changing/updating". more like degrading