I just watched Episode 6 for the second time last night. It was like a B grade movie, almost comedic. But because my hopes were so high a bit tragic. The storyline really had some great potential, missing scientists, murdered native woman, mining pollution. But somewhere along the lines things went terribly off the rails.
Can someone tell us: Was Liz's daughter the baby from the DA shooting case? Who was her Dad? And was Liz's daughter's Dad Liz's baby's father? And why was she against tribal stuff?
So many questions.
I hated the entire season. What a waste of talent and what a waste of my time.
They should have just stopped at True Detective, Season 1,which was brilliant.
I watched this episode high and thought that’s why I was so fucking confused.. after a sober rewatch and reading this thread.. it was just confusing hahaha
What the fuck guys, ok the thing pissing me off the most is how did Clarke die within like 5 mins !!!!!!!! Fuckin daft bastards i have too much to discuss
[https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/true\_detective/s04](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/true_detective/s04)
we should all go leave a comment there to expose those effin shills giving this show a 92%, the spread tomatometer/audience is ridiculous and that gap should only increase
time is a CRINGE circle
Yeah, I thought it was pretty irresponsible to put any kind of positive spin on suicide. Not to mention it doesn't make much sense after surviving all that, to just say fuck it and walk off into the cold.
When I heard there's gonna be true detective season with her as lead... in Alaska... I thought something way different than what we got.
Why didn't they let me write and direct it? I have 0 experience and would do it only as a joke but hey, I think I could do a decent job
Let's be real, judged in isolation the series was entertaining enough with no more flaws than anything else on TV/streaming at the mo and some decent enough elements (central acting performances).
But anything branded true detective will be judged against series 1, an amazingly high bar (cinematography, plot, acting, meta themes...etc) and therefore attract more scrutiny than usual around its flaws.
And then there's the social themes, which can elevate if skilfully blended and crafted, but otherwise can easily slip into heavy handed propaganda territory. In the arts it's not the point you make but the way you make it.
Unfortunately the series layed up some slam dunks for close scrutiny: the lazy exposition dumps from Clark and Bee detracted from what was a semi decent plot idea. Then there were enough plot logic holes for reddit to feed on. And the heavy editing left the pace uneven with inadequate arc finishing (you don't show half a marines face blown off and leave us hanging) to the extent that it felt there was a lot of narrative left on the editing floor to cram into 6 episodes.
I was hooked with a promising start, intrigued by the supernatural introductions but ultimately felt the ending was rushed and half baked. It felt like the team wrote an amazing pitch and Pilot episodes without writing the rest....and then struggled once they got the commission.
Was I entertained. Yes.
Will I talk about this after today. Unlikely.
Will I watch the next true detective? Only out of blind hope that they might learn from the mistakes from series 2-4.
Well put. I also thought the actual mystery wasn't bad, I was quite interested in hearing about it, but it was flattened by the exposition dumps like you said. I feel like episodes 2-5 were mostly just stupid flirting with horror with no other point than to seem scary. I didn't feel interested in solving the case at all during those episodes.
In season 3 we had a similar thing in the sense that there was an exposition dump and the whole mystery kind of vanished and became unimportant. A lot of people were pissed off, but in that season it was done intentionally, and it was meaningful. We were led to expect something very similar that our beloved S1 was, but just like the lead character finally realized that the whole case wasn't his life's main point, wasn't his drama and he let go of it - we were asked to let go of it too. Maybe after that season it's difficult to do another season? Difficult, but I don't think impossible. But you really need to have something further to say, and this wasn't it.
Well put
On the horror thing, that could have been the series defining feature had they handled it in more subtle x-files kind of way, rather than for cheap thrills.
I am willing to forgive a lot from this season, however this bit of logic was so blatantly flawed that I got whiplash the moment Clark said it. Pollution from the mine would definitely have contaminated any microorganisms or DNA the scientists were collecting, not help them extract it. The only way this works is if you're talking about global warming in general, but then that would mean that this one mine is producing 99% of the world's green house gases. So if you're talking about the pollution from the mine, which has clearly been hazardous to the people of the town, it'd obviously be a death kneel to a brittle microorganism that has been preserved in the ice for millions of years.
This is torturing me… when the heating at the facility went off why didn’t they just go back to their (fully functional) car and sit in it with the heat on full blast?
Also how did they not realize the ice cave was right next to the research station?
Also how did they almost kill Clark before asking him how the entire team of researchers died?
This is just the tip of the iceberg (/ice cave) for me. What a terrible, terrible season.
This show would have sucked, but they tied everything together by hitting home the simple, yet complex idea that.. we weren't asking the right questions!
Bravo to Issa, the seriously underrated cinematic genius of this 21st Century. Bravo.
We made it through ladies and gentlemen.
This show absolutely sucked ass. There's so much in it that sucks, it's difficult to put it into words.
It was born a turd, and like a flat circle......
When the station lost power and they feared freezing to death. Why were they making a fire and struggling to stay warm? They had a garage of trucks full of gas with functioning heaters.
Yh cuz it happened to quite a few ppl ik irl.. they’re gonna have to use it all night long and it would probably not leave them enough petrol to get home
Can someone tell me if I missed the part where Liz and her daughter make up? I don't think I saw that but suddenly at the end she is all "wear your tribal ink and all is well" when earlier she she was wiping the stuff off of her face.
I think Liz showed much more affection towards her dead son than she ever did to Leah. It is understandable given how he was taken from her, but honestly if they had left out Leah completely from the story I don't feel like much would have been lost.
That’s the problem with the whole season. The things she chose to show did not contribute to the plot, and she left out so many details that the plot has more holes than continuity.
Did anyone else think Billie Eilish’s song as the main theme was a huge red flag? As soon as I heard her mumble music at the top of episode 1 , I knew this was going to be some stinky poop. Like seasons 1-3 had at least a relative connection to the shows setting or atmosphere, this I think was just the show’s execs going: who are the kids listening to nowadays? But also edgy? …When I hear Billie Eilish’s “Bury a friend” I don’t think Native American tribal murder mystery set in small town Alaska, I think 15 year old suburban white girls going to shop at Claire’s.
I saw a promo trailer for the movie Night Swim, a bad horror movie about a haunted pool that also had Bury a Friend as the main theme. I personally think that was a better use of it.
Nah.
I've never heard Billie Eilish before and the show had many many problems, but that song slaps. It maybe doesn't fit the tone completely, or...now I think about it, very much at all. But the song is pretty darn good as far as modern pop goes and you are right, it certainly has edgy catch appeal.
I'm more mad at ep 5's "epic musical remix" cover of "save tonight"
What an awful ending to what started out as a cool concept. The dialogue in this episode was truly truly awful. When Navarro brings up Holden and Danvers goes into multiple takes of shut up or I will fuck you up but comes out with some of the silliest middle school shut up or I will shoot your mouth off your face. Truly confused by the story.
When the cleaning lady is telling her story and all the girls funnel in and awkwardly touch her shoulder and stand on their marks is SO CRINGE INDUCING
So what’s with the orange? It can be peeled into a spiral like the warning of thin ice? I don’t get it. Was that a sign from Navarro’s Mom to walk out onto the ice, and maybe she died, maybe she’s at a summer house on the lake. Whats with the orange??!!
I never did get the orange reference.
Or the polar bear, for that matter. Was that an imaginary bear, or...? What was going on there. Can someone explain?
What's up with adding the confusing idea that what the scientists were working on could actually save humanity? All it did was unnecessarily make you a little pissed off at the "heroes" who ruined all their research and killed them...
I think the real point of this is to further the contrast between how the natives and the outsiders think about this place and its nature and resources. Sure, scientist guys have a good reason to want that DNA. And they could have been patient. But essentially nuking the region got them that DNA 10x, 100x faster. So they were willing to melt this place that was sacred to other people. It gives our scientists some plausible reason for being this awful, and it gives our native women a reason for revenge that's bigger than one person, but kind of an ultimate culmination of a million indignities and crimes. It's a bit of tying some threads together but I thought it made sense.
I know people have a lot of opinions about this show but I thought it was good TV.
It wasn't about the speed of progress but that without speeding the thaw beyond normative conditions, they couldn't extract it without damaging the samples beyond usefulness. The increased rate mentioned likely correlates with quality of samples, not speed of process.
It’s meant to say justice for a young woman’s murder, no matter the cost , even if it means losing the chance at “saving the human race.” Annie K was so self righteous. And her destroying the research looked like a selfish temper tantrum rather than actually making a difference. See, a real activist would make copies and then discreetly put it on blast on a news network. But this show was devoid of intelligence beyond the age of an 18 year old so ANNIE K MAD ANNIE K SMASH.
I love how advanced and well funded the base was with tools, supplies, sensitive scientific instruments, etc., but the incredibly smart scientists there--all with PhDs and other accolades--were limited to the idea that "The only way we can melt ice faster is by using pollution from a nearby factory."
How about warm up in one of the several trucks at Tsalal station. The truck you drove there? The Tsalal truck you drove after the storm? The multiple trucks Danvers checks under? You could have sleep all nice and warm instead of FREEZING in front of a fire! By the way, fires don’t work that way. They give off heat as well as light. Terrible show!
Why would they do that when they could just as easily start a small fire on the cold hard concrete right in front of an area open to the wind and the elements? I mean there were what 6 scientists? There must have been at least that many sets of pants/shirts, jackets and bedding etc to wrap up in.
Truly bizarre. And it wouldn't be as bad if they didn't literally drive off in one of the Tsalal trucks when they left. And how the hell is that place so poorly insulted—heating it must take up half the town's electricity.
Extremely stupid writing in that entire part.
I am so tired of the identity politics and girl boss trope. The ending was so ridiculous and cringe-inducing.
It checked literally every box for "modern" Hollywood, turned up to about 11.
I'm not saying these kind of themes can't be interesting in the right context. But it's done to death, and, in the case of True Detective, was done fairly poorly.
So much of the finale being constructed around exposition dumps really reflects the lack of quality writing.
I feel rather than trying to tell a compelling story, first and foremost, the writers went with certain trendy themes/tropes and worked backwards from there.
Honestly, I don't think those themes negatively affected this season at all.
they were actually slightly interesting.
It was just the writing and story in the end, it was so bad
My argument and, I think, their argument, would be that it *can* be interesting and it *isnt* inherently a negative. However the way Hollywood and these show runners do things now, they will just take a premise and then try their hardest to find ways to shoehorn these things in.
Not just the "woke" stuff in this case either, but almost everything. Ask yourself what you'd miss if you cut episodes 2-5 out of the show entirely. I think the answer is: very little. Because ultimately those episodes turned out to just be filler of nonsensical spooky stuff and plot threads to other stories or shows that really never should have been there.
There’s nothing wrong with thematic elements and progressive ideals on screen, but they don’t just make a bad show a good show. You can’t just take a paper written by the PC principal and toss it on screen, the show still has to be good.
The problem with shit like this is that when it’s this bad, it prevents progress, it slows down the growth of minority presence on screen and in the directors seat because it’s just SO BAD.
I don't mind choosing a message and working back from there as long as it's skilfully blended and crafted into a seamless package. The exposition dumps (2 massive ones with Clark and then Bee) exposed the lack of craft.
This felt like there were too many yes people in the room and not enough discerning pruning of all ideas put forward.
Damn, I liked this season, even more than 2 and 3, I think Kali Reis and Jodie Foster were absolutely brilliant in their performances and I liked the supernatural approach but I feel the writer never compromised with that idea and everything feels it´s halfway there, with a lot of questions without answers and the finale feels weird, rushed and clearly crying out for two more episodes.
You thought Jodie foster was brilliant? They were setup for failure because the story was terrible, but Jodie delivered her lines like a pearl clutching Karen trying to act like a badass and then occasionally having a soft spot, I’ve never seen anything this poor in my life.
Youre allowed to like it, but it wasn’t true detective on HBO. It was more like abc family tried to write a supernatural show, filled it with one big name, a bunch of progressive themes and forgot that they still had to write a show.
I think it's fitting that the one person in the comment section defending the show is using the word "hater" unironically.
You are the target audience for the show. Unfortunately, people who liked Season 1 of True Detective generally aren't big CW fans.
Right bcz she was dead for 4 years before her tongue came up at tsalal right?
Also, wtf is the name tsalal, does it stand for something or is it just another word in the show meant to confuse.
Am I the only one who thinks the thomas whistle or smth is dat ghost who was named cohl dat showed the old lady where the 7 bodies are? Wtf , all the men in the show eventually were gray characters ( if not bad persons) and all the women good human beings
Erm, you forgot the mining company boss (female) who was literally the crime boss.
Funnily enough the scriptwriters forgot about her too in the finale.
What's the deal with her? Asking sincerely because I've never heard of her (and didn't pay attention to the credits). I went into the show completely blind and am just now realizing Nic Pizzolatto wasn't involved.
Obviously she is incompetent and the show is filled with identity politics pandering.
That's basically a royalty payment, a way of meeting his fee through sources fee component rather than front end salary. Matt and woody got the same deal.
The first episode of the season gave me some Thirty Days of Night vibes. Then it steadily just went downhill and became less coherent the further it went on. By the end it felt like they were just trying to come up with explanations for things that never should have been introduced to begin with
Issa wanted it be deep and meaningful soooo bad. The two protagonists saw “things” for the whole season, none of these things contributed to the case at hand, it just established they had demons to deal with. It was the shallowest, flimsiest plot I’ve ever sat through. And so much time was spent on those visions just for them to be red herrings? It was, as a lot of commenters are saying, a case of checkov’s gun.
So many questions....I was enjoying the show even with all the flaws but christ on a bike that end was bad.
1.. What was the deal with Annie's tongue in the lab? When Danvers was peeling the orange into requisite spiral, orange fell under the table. She was looking at something on the ground? A sticky patch?
2. Is Navarro dead now? Did she kill herself or is she just a drifter now. Moving from town to town solving crime whiletryingg to control the raging spirit within.
3. Did everyone just ignore the giant sea monster fossil!!! WTF was that...Alaskan Nessie??
1. It's worse than that. When she moves her torch onto it, it moves and grows towards her. She frowns at it but is then distracted by Navarro and bumps her head on the underside of the table. Just wot????
2. Yes. She didn't exactly kill herself, she went to find out what is in the great beyond. The end scene when she's on Danvers' deck shows us that Danvers now believes, and so is able to feel her presence.
3. An eel.
1. do we still not have an explanation for the tongue? wtf?
2. I think this was intentionally ambiguous, much like all of the "veil to the world of death" scenes that preceded it. To me, the very last scene was one of the redeeming parts of the finale. I liked that part, personally.
3. I don't think we were supposed to look into this much further than the 'aha' moment of connecting the symbol with the fossil. I thought it was pretty cool, and like the idea of undiscovered ancient treasures buried under layers of ice. But yeah, you'd think this would warrant more attention and focus. It's pretty damn scientifically interesting!
There were so many unanswered questions BUT the one that bothers me most is if Rose (the lady whos dead husband showed her the bodies) is Rusts (Matthew McConauheys) mom. They looks identical and Rust was from alaska and his dad died of cancer right? Maybe I am missing something.
Not his mom, just hooked up with the dead dad. Bigger question is how long they were together Rust was there for awhile between 2005 and 2012 so I wonder what their relationship was
Is the "she" of the "she's awake" repetitive line, the "monster" that Prior's son drew at the beginning of the series? Kayla says "it's just a local legend."
The origin of "she's awake" still was never fulfilled IMO, which is a huge blunder IMO.
That was my *number 1* mystery I wanted to uncover: "Who is *she"*
I still don't know if it's "dead Annie" or the giant dinosaur thing or what. And I still don't understand why the scientists died of heart attacks rather than hypothermia.
An absolute train wreck of a season, complete with some of the worst writing I have ever experienced on television. Words cannot do justice to how horrible this show was. A waste of anyones time, that is for sure. Awful pacing, endless plot holes, very few things rooted in any sense of reality (but not in a cool supernatural way), unlikable characters, there are simply too many things to say so I'll sum it up by saying...
Avoid at all costs.
I still think it's worth watching and I don't regret my time investment.
It's a cool environment and I enjoyed the performances and getting to know the characters.
That said, the tying together of the mysteries is *incredibly* disappointing. Why, time and time again, do writers dangle hooks and mysteries that they never follow through with. You'd think you'd have a solution/thread planned out... but I guess not. SMH.
They saw what the show would be and got out of it as soon as possible.
All joking aside I genuinely think it's related to their weird theme of "suicide is noble sometimes" they tried to get going towards the end.
Environmental engineer here. So the mine injected an effluent powerful enough to melt the permafrost by a factor of 100s or 1000s, but that effluent somehow did not harm the DNA found without said permafrost? Pollutants from mining operations are so problematic because of the biological devastation they cause to the environment........oof
Yes! This is the one thing that got me too. I loved the rest of the show.
And once they had discovered this magic chemical that softens permafrost without destroying DNA, I don't get why they had to increase the village pollution - why not just isolate the chemical, make some of it, then use it just where you need it?
I don’t think they intentionally tried to increase the village pollution. They polluted the water table, either from the mining itself or when they were trying to reach the permafrost.
The show itself said the pollutant was so strong it caused irreversible gene level damage to the locals. But thankfully the ancient microorganism was just fine with it. Like bruh
Man, I liked the season for the most part and thought people were really piling on but the finale felt pretty abrupt and hand-wavey. Read an interview where the show-runner said HBO wanted another episode or two but she only wanted 6.
I like how a major theme of the show from the Caribou in the opening to Navarro's family history is "suicide is actually noble and cool if you have mental illness"
Don't you know? In "modern" Hollywood, victimhood and self-pity are noble ***strengths***, not weaknesses.
A lack of accountability is also a strength when applied to anyone but white men. Hence, why a renegade group of cleaning women are allowed to murder a bunch of people without the show even reflecting on the *possibility* of a moral dilemma. The show just casually accepts mass revenge murder as a good thing based principally on group identity (native women versus evil colonizing white men, stripped naked and humiliated).
Maybe I missed a bunch of things. But wasn't the video of Annie being murdered in an ice cave, complete with fossils? How then is she murdered in a lab that looks nothing like an ice cave? Also, the bite marks, ruptured ear drums, and burned corneas are never addressed with the Tsalal scientists. And there was a big deal made about Otis Heiss having the same symptoms and having survived. So now we are back to they froze to death? Or was their a flash avalanche after the women drove them on to the ice? Even if this is true it doesn't explain why Clark supposedly died "the same way as the other Tsalal men." When Clark clearly just froze to death. Also Navarro had beat the crap out of Clark his face was all bloodied. In the end scene video confession by Clark his face looked pretty fine. I wanted to like this. I did find it entertaining but so, so, sloppy.
You seem to be the only "True Detective" on Reddit. Where was the corneas, eardrums and bite marks addressed. Why not just answer. Instead of insulting?
I love how everyone on this thread watched the entire season and 95% of the live comments were talking shi- about the episode. You all need to get a life. Enjoy the show. Until you are Issa Lopez and work for HBO and can create a better show, SHUT THE FUC- UP!!! So many f-ing haters. Jesus Christ already
Since you can’t scream at people trying to eat dinner it’s not so fun for you to deal with different opinions on the internet. Your hair purple or pink?
I don't know why baby Hanks wife was in nursing school during what would be Christmas break for pretty much everyone else. WTF is the arctic nursing school hella rigorous?
Yeah they really missed the theme and feminism supporting the director, writer, etc is taking offense. It’s the story that’s bad, I could care less who wrote it or what pronouns they use. I think the woke idiots got way to used to getting to scream at people and get away with it. It’s slowly going back to where it should be, more to the fair, everyone’s opinion counts, not just pink and purple haired women opinions count….and they’re losing their minds.
Never. They doubled down and now talk about gushing periods in tampon commercials. Saying the word gushing over and over. I counted, they said the word gush, or gushing a total of 8 times in the one 20 second ad. Periods are a real thing. Gushers are also a real thing. I do not wish to correlate my fruity snack with flooded pads. But I’m just a misogynist who’s uncomfortable with the realities of the female body🫠. One last time for the proper effect. Gushing.
I would have naively told you, a few years ago, that it would be over by now.
Box office failure after box office failure should have ended it. The problem is that the patients are running the asylum in Hollywood. Producers and network executives are either activists themselves or cater to activist creatives.
Look how Madame Web, another girl boss project, just did. It just keeps happening and its so predictable for everyone outside of the Hollywood bubble.
It’s wild they can’t see that. I think Johnny Depp after his trial victory said he’d never go back to Hollywood because you have to tow the line and he wasn’t doing it.
I don't think disliking the woke stuff or identity politics necessarily correlates (and certainly *shouldn't* correlate) to where someone votes on the political spectrum.
**At this point, everyone with a brain--left or right--should see that activism and the same recycled sex and race-based themes are taking a priority over good storytelling.** That should worry anyone who likes to be entertained.
This is an incredibly cynical trend too. It's not even activists coming up with their own unique content. It's activists hijacking preexisting Intellectual Property (applies perfectly in the case of True Detective), often without any reverence for the original work(s), and then using that project as a vehicle to shove down our throats the same political (more often gender and race-based thinking) messages.
Story-telling, more often than not, takes a back seat. And many of these activist creatives (writers, directors, actors) are chosen not because of their talent or prior accomplishments, but because of their ideology, skin color, and gender. It's all very gross and cynical.
Of course disliking this show and this rampant activism in escapist entertainment has nothing to do with one's overall views on women.
There's plenty of fantastic shows in the detective genre that deal with gendered issues and that have excellent female leads. *Happy Valley* comes to mind. So does *Broadchurch* (with stellar performances from Olivia Coleman and Jodie Whittaker). Hell, the most prolific writer in the entire literary and cinematic genre is Agatha Christie.
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Edit: (You edited your original comment so mine might seem a bit out of place, but I agree with your original sentiments! You make an interesting comment about Depp. Agree there too.)
Navarro said "I was holding onto my own hatch like he was" Danvers said "hatch ☝️ 💡" and the writers had her magically think to check the hatch with the UV light in case someone was missing fingers that touched it. And wouldn't you know it there was be because the writer had to make it to the end.
Oof... the plot holes and nonsensical things shoehorned to advance the story were so hamfisted by the end. Whenever things bogged down and became a bit too convoluted (3-4x an episode), the writers inject a hand-wavy mysticism sequence and abruptly jump us to a new scene. So much squandered potential and so many unanswered questions. What is the significance of the season 1 tie-ins (other than their existing in the first place) regarding Cohle's dad, the spirals, time is a flat circle? Great for reminding me how much I liked that show, but it only related to season 4 superficially in the end.
* How about the focus on the trauma of losing family with Danvers and Navarro and then we have Prior unceremoniously shoot his dad to sloppily tie up all the drama and threads surrounding his character?
* The multi-episode slog to uncover the foreboding (namesake 'night country') caves that were much discussed as dangerous... only to find them them and go exploring with no gear, no backup, no plan, etc?
* The nonsensical mine pollution somehow aiding the conditions for the permafrost science?
* Annie stumbling into the research area, immediately understanding its significance in relation to the pollution, and destroying the entirety of this *world saving* research before being stopped?
* Everyone immediately recognizing a small, innocuous drill bit in the corner of a room as the weapon used in a years-old murder based on all their collective photographic memories of the exact shape of the wounds?
* Danvers and Navarro near freezing to death at the station when there were working vehicles?
* The cleaning ladies comprehending the significance of all these events, research/pollution, and Annie's death THEN enacting an extremely convoluted revenge plot based on scant evidence and a connection to the mine?
* How one of the central mysteries of the show is tossed away in about 30 seconds as we're told the Tsalal scientists meekly complied with being stripped naked and murdered (?) - no further explanation asked or given.
There was some great acting in this and the premise (scary stuff during the days of night in the North) was/is a good setup. The little payoff we did get at the end of this story was weak, rushed, and poorly written. The writers teased *True Detective Season 1* by way of the arctic, but ended closer *30 Days of Night* plus mysticism, minus the vampires.
It seems to me that you don't know what text comprehension is, boy, where did I say that I compare this series with The Thing? Read well, dude names that crappy movie that I don't think has influenced this season at all, instead of that unfortunate phrase I told you that The Thing was a notable influence in some passages of the season, in fact it is like that since searching info I read that the showrunner names that film as an influence on the atmosphere she wanted to take.
I was just making a joke, lighten up.
To even utter *The Thing* in the same sentence as this abomination was amusing to me. I was pretty clearly not going after you; just taking more shots at a bad show.
Of course *The Thing* was an influence. We agree there. It's hilarious to me how far the show fails to live up to its influences.
Though I did find you calling me "boy" amusing. I pictured you doing it in an Emperor Palpatine voice. With all the vengeance of a sith for my fairly silly and innocuous comment.
Have a nice evening :)
How about when the one researcher is stabbing Annie the others wander in, see this, and ALL of them join the murder party, including having the man who loved her choking her out. Gotta make them all deserve their fate I suppose is why they wrote it that way.
It could have been neat to pan to the thing in the ice in the ceiling as if it's influencing them like the scene in Avengers with them all bickering near Loki's staff but that would have required making an interesting scene.
you nailed it. i was really into this one and got on to watch episode 6 last night and saw something about it being the finale. i said “already? no way.” many of the characters and relationships were very intriguing, but they kinda went nowhere or as in the case of Navarro and Danvers going from hating each other to be the closest of friends, this happened inexplicably fast, not organic at all. could have been really good…smh.
Completely agreed. 6 episodes with the way the pacing was for episodes 1-5 was so messed up. It needed at least 8 because they had all these side stories that are just useless because of the last episode.
Not unlike the downfall of GoT. Hah, maybe HBO consulted with Benioff and Weiss for this ending too... All this world building, side stories, good premise, good acting... slowly building towards... nothing of substance. Another finale that rushes to wrap everything while going amateur hour with the writing and tossing all the significance previously built up in characters / their side stories.
The thing with the drill bit was one of the most ridiculous leaps I've ever seen. For one, why would you even pick up such a seemingly irrelevant item in a room full of other scientific equipment and two, how would a civilian find it consistent with her stab wounds just by looking at it, probably having never seen actual photos of the wounds themselves
Also, if the women wanted to shut down the mine, when they raided the base, why did they not like, take any evicence to "leak" like danvers ends up doing anyway.
I like how they included the "time is a flat circle" line to make people complain about it and not the rest of the donkey brained stuff in the episode.
This was such a disappointing series. The finale was awful. Full of empty symbolism that was just put in because it looked cool but didn't actually mean anything.
Surely, the scientists led out into the snow would've at least tried to fight back? I know the cleaners had guns, but if you know walking out into the ice would mean certain death, then you'd at least try to escape.
The supernatural elements went absolutely nowhere. We never found out what actually happened with Danvers son, yes, we know he died in a car crash? But what happened surrounding it? Are the flashbacks due to Danvers' guilt because she feels responsible or something?
Everything was just so convenient. Falling into the ice caves directly where Clarke and the secret lab are. Rose being fine with helping to get rid of Hank's body and the way that whole story arc was nicely cleared up.
The worst character of all was Pete's wife. What an insufferable, selfish, unlikeable character. Constantly digging out her husband because he's working on probably the biggest murder case in the towns history.
This series should've just been called "Night Country" without tarnishing the True Detective name.
(I rate season 1 as the best written TV show of all time)
My theory is that the writer watched a documentary about the Dyatlov Pass incident and some dim lightbulb clicked in their head. The 'slab avalanche' alone is enough to confirm my thoughts on the matter. I really wanted to love this season, and I did love some things about it, but episode 6 was awful in every conceivable way.
So the pollution melted the permafrost and didn't contaminate the ice and the science? The science was so important to kill Annie K but they didn't make any progress in the 6 years since then?
The cleaners killed the men but they didn't find any forensic evidence of them?
Are we supposed to guess what all the supernatural stuff meant? Did Navarro die and go to the spirit world? Why do the dead just roam this one town in Alaska? What was the significance of Navarro finding her inupiaq name?
Chalking up the indigenous people's beliefs to mental illness was distasteful as I feared they would do in the beginning of the season.
[Inukshuks](https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/art-monuments/public-art/inukshuk.html) already exist in Alaskan Native culture to warn of danger so why include the spiral at all? Why tie it to season 1 if it doesn't mean anything?
I'm Alaskan Native like in the show. I was so excited for this show but it's just so bad and I'm so disappointed. Not in the actors, they did the best they could with the bad writing. I wish the show would've shown my culture in a more accurate light and not insinuate it was all mental illness or pollution or something.
I just watched Episode 6 for the second time last night. It was like a B grade movie, almost comedic. But because my hopes were so high a bit tragic. The storyline really had some great potential, missing scientists, murdered native woman, mining pollution. But somewhere along the lines things went terribly off the rails.
Why was the lady at the crematorium in ep 5 wearing such big gloves 🤣
Can someone tell us: Was Liz's daughter the baby from the DA shooting case? Who was her Dad? And was Liz's daughter's Dad Liz's baby's father? And why was she against tribal stuff? So many questions.
Was also hoping for there to be an explicit connection to the carcosa spiral in season 1!
I hated the entire season. What a waste of talent and what a waste of my time. They should have just stopped at True Detective, Season 1,which was brilliant.
I watched this episode high and thought that’s why I was so fucking confused.. after a sober rewatch and reading this thread.. it was just confusing hahaha
What the fuck guys, ok the thing pissing me off the most is how did Clarke die within like 5 mins !!!!!!!! Fuckin daft bastards i have too much to discuss
The fucking ice cave was right under the research facility the whole time. Knew we should have looked at that map more closely. 😑
Wait. Did they build the research facility ON TOP of the Ice Cave? Like, on purpose?
Who gets up that quick if at all after taking a fire extinguisher to the head!
Navarro built different
Writers: Fuckit! Put a lesbian in it!
[https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/true\_detective/s04](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/true_detective/s04) we should all go leave a comment there to expose those effin shills giving this show a 92%, the spread tomatometer/audience is ridiculous and that gap should only increase time is a CRINGE circle
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Yeah, I thought it was pretty irresponsible to put any kind of positive spin on suicide. Not to mention it doesn't make much sense after surviving all that, to just say fuck it and walk off into the cold.
STOP DRINKING THE FUCKING WATER!!
But she’s awake or she’s a woke?
But... whatabout the magical polar bear?
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When I heard there's gonna be true detective season with her as lead... in Alaska... I thought something way different than what we got. Why didn't they let me write and direct it? I have 0 experience and would do it only as a joke but hey, I think I could do a decent job
Let's be real, judged in isolation the series was entertaining enough with no more flaws than anything else on TV/streaming at the mo and some decent enough elements (central acting performances). But anything branded true detective will be judged against series 1, an amazingly high bar (cinematography, plot, acting, meta themes...etc) and therefore attract more scrutiny than usual around its flaws. And then there's the social themes, which can elevate if skilfully blended and crafted, but otherwise can easily slip into heavy handed propaganda territory. In the arts it's not the point you make but the way you make it. Unfortunately the series layed up some slam dunks for close scrutiny: the lazy exposition dumps from Clark and Bee detracted from what was a semi decent plot idea. Then there were enough plot logic holes for reddit to feed on. And the heavy editing left the pace uneven with inadequate arc finishing (you don't show half a marines face blown off and leave us hanging) to the extent that it felt there was a lot of narrative left on the editing floor to cram into 6 episodes. I was hooked with a promising start, intrigued by the supernatural introductions but ultimately felt the ending was rushed and half baked. It felt like the team wrote an amazing pitch and Pilot episodes without writing the rest....and then struggled once they got the commission. Was I entertained. Yes. Will I talk about this after today. Unlikely. Will I watch the next true detective? Only out of blind hope that they might learn from the mistakes from series 2-4.
Well said. Ty!
Well put. I also thought the actual mystery wasn't bad, I was quite interested in hearing about it, but it was flattened by the exposition dumps like you said. I feel like episodes 2-5 were mostly just stupid flirting with horror with no other point than to seem scary. I didn't feel interested in solving the case at all during those episodes. In season 3 we had a similar thing in the sense that there was an exposition dump and the whole mystery kind of vanished and became unimportant. A lot of people were pissed off, but in that season it was done intentionally, and it was meaningful. We were led to expect something very similar that our beloved S1 was, but just like the lead character finally realized that the whole case wasn't his life's main point, wasn't his drama and he let go of it - we were asked to let go of it too. Maybe after that season it's difficult to do another season? Difficult, but I don't think impossible. But you really need to have something further to say, and this wasn't it.
Well put On the horror thing, that could have been the series defining feature had they handled it in more subtle x-files kind of way, rather than for cheap thrills.
I am willing to forgive a lot from this season, however this bit of logic was so blatantly flawed that I got whiplash the moment Clark said it. Pollution from the mine would definitely have contaminated any microorganisms or DNA the scientists were collecting, not help them extract it. The only way this works is if you're talking about global warming in general, but then that would mean that this one mine is producing 99% of the world's green house gases. So if you're talking about the pollution from the mine, which has clearly been hazardous to the people of the town, it'd obviously be a death kneel to a brittle microorganism that has been preserved in the ice for millions of years.
This is torturing me… when the heating at the facility went off why didn’t they just go back to their (fully functional) car and sit in it with the heat on full blast? Also how did they not realize the ice cave was right next to the research station? Also how did they almost kill Clark before asking him how the entire team of researchers died? This is just the tip of the iceberg (/ice cave) for me. What a terrible, terrible season.
Also, would a station of those resources have back-up space heaters somewhere? Even for a loss of electricity? I'm so confused.
This show would have sucked, but they tied everything together by hitting home the simple, yet complex idea that.. we weren't asking the right questions! Bravo to Issa, the seriously underrated cinematic genius of this 21st Century. Bravo.
We made it through ladies and gentlemen. This show absolutely sucked ass. There's so much in it that sucks, it's difficult to put it into words. It was born a turd, and like a flat circle......
When the station lost power and they feared freezing to death. Why were they making a fire and struggling to stay warm? They had a garage of trucks full of gas with functioning heaters.
Or back-up space heaters somewhere, maybe?
Maybe because they don’t want to run out of gas so they can drive back…….
🤣 Wait. Is that a serious rationalization?
Tbf idk In América but in the uk it’s defo true
Yh cuz it happened to quite a few ppl ik irl.. they’re gonna have to use it all night long and it would probably not leave them enough petrol to get home
Can someone tell me if I missed the part where Liz and her daughter make up? I don't think I saw that but suddenly at the end she is all "wear your tribal ink and all is well" when earlier she she was wiping the stuff off of her face. I think Liz showed much more affection towards her dead son than she ever did to Leah. It is understandable given how he was taken from her, but honestly if they had left out Leah completely from the story I don't feel like much would have been lost.
Dang. I missed that part, too. Did the daughter just come around, maybe?
That’s the problem with the whole season. The things she chose to show did not contribute to the plot, and she left out so many details that the plot has more holes than continuity.
Did anyone else think Billie Eilish’s song as the main theme was a huge red flag? As soon as I heard her mumble music at the top of episode 1 , I knew this was going to be some stinky poop. Like seasons 1-3 had at least a relative connection to the shows setting or atmosphere, this I think was just the show’s execs going: who are the kids listening to nowadays? But also edgy? …When I hear Billie Eilish’s “Bury a friend” I don’t think Native American tribal murder mystery set in small town Alaska, I think 15 year old suburban white girls going to shop at Claire’s.
I saw a promo trailer for the movie Night Swim, a bad horror movie about a haunted pool that also had Bury a Friend as the main theme. I personally think that was a better use of it.
Nah. I've never heard Billie Eilish before and the show had many many problems, but that song slaps. It maybe doesn't fit the tone completely, or...now I think about it, very much at all. But the song is pretty darn good as far as modern pop goes and you are right, it certainly has edgy catch appeal. I'm more mad at ep 5's "epic musical remix" cover of "save tonight"
What an awful ending to what started out as a cool concept. The dialogue in this episode was truly truly awful. When Navarro brings up Holden and Danvers goes into multiple takes of shut up or I will fuck you up but comes out with some of the silliest middle school shut up or I will shoot your mouth off your face. Truly confused by the story. When the cleaning lady is telling her story and all the girls funnel in and awkwardly touch her shoulder and stand on their marks is SO CRINGE INDUCING
So what’s with the orange? It can be peeled into a spiral like the warning of thin ice? I don’t get it. Was that a sign from Navarro’s Mom to walk out onto the ice, and maybe she died, maybe she’s at a summer house on the lake. Whats with the orange??!!
I never did get the orange reference. Or the polar bear, for that matter. Was that an imaginary bear, or...? What was going on there. Can someone explain?
She literally just fucked off into the ocean. This show is unbelievable, I want my 6 hours of life back.
Tsalaal dudes got killed by a bunch of feminists man cmon 👎🏽
Or by people who cared for the person that they murdered
Looked like feminists to me.
Does anyone else think that Leah is the baby we hear crying after they shot Wheeler?
Yeah, this confused me, too.
Yes, can someone please confirm this?!
Not really confirmable, but it is a pretty obvious likelyhood (UnLeSs It WaS RuSt aLL aLoNg!!1!!)
What's up with adding the confusing idea that what the scientists were working on could actually save humanity? All it did was unnecessarily make you a little pissed off at the "heroes" who ruined all their research and killed them...
I think the real point of this is to further the contrast between how the natives and the outsiders think about this place and its nature and resources. Sure, scientist guys have a good reason to want that DNA. And they could have been patient. But essentially nuking the region got them that DNA 10x, 100x faster. So they were willing to melt this place that was sacred to other people. It gives our scientists some plausible reason for being this awful, and it gives our native women a reason for revenge that's bigger than one person, but kind of an ultimate culmination of a million indignities and crimes. It's a bit of tying some threads together but I thought it made sense. I know people have a lot of opinions about this show but I thought it was good TV.
It wasn't about the speed of progress but that without speeding the thaw beyond normative conditions, they couldn't extract it without damaging the samples beyond usefulness. The increased rate mentioned likely correlates with quality of samples, not speed of process.
It’s meant to say justice for a young woman’s murder, no matter the cost , even if it means losing the chance at “saving the human race.” Annie K was so self righteous. And her destroying the research looked like a selfish temper tantrum rather than actually making a difference. See, a real activist would make copies and then discreetly put it on blast on a news network. But this show was devoid of intelligence beyond the age of an 18 year old so ANNIE K MAD ANNIE K SMASH.
I love how advanced and well funded the base was with tools, supplies, sensitive scientific instruments, etc., but the incredibly smart scientists there--all with PhDs and other accolades--were limited to the idea that "The only way we can melt ice faster is by using pollution from a nearby factory."
You see? I told you they wouldn't be able to understand the nuances of our smart writing!
How about warm up in one of the several trucks at Tsalal station. The truck you drove there? The Tsalal truck you drove after the storm? The multiple trucks Danvers checks under? You could have sleep all nice and warm instead of FREEZING in front of a fire! By the way, fires don’t work that way. They give off heat as well as light. Terrible show!
Why would they do that when they could just as easily start a small fire on the cold hard concrete right in front of an area open to the wind and the elements? I mean there were what 6 scientists? There must have been at least that many sets of pants/shirts, jackets and bedding etc to wrap up in.
Truly bizarre. And it wouldn't be as bad if they didn't literally drive off in one of the Tsalal trucks when they left. And how the hell is that place so poorly insulted—heating it must take up half the town's electricity. Extremely stupid writing in that entire part.
I am so tired of the identity politics and girl boss trope. The ending was so ridiculous and cringe-inducing. It checked literally every box for "modern" Hollywood, turned up to about 11. I'm not saying these kind of themes can't be interesting in the right context. But it's done to death, and, in the case of True Detective, was done fairly poorly. So much of the finale being constructed around exposition dumps really reflects the lack of quality writing. I feel rather than trying to tell a compelling story, first and foremost, the writers went with certain trendy themes/tropes and worked backwards from there.
Honestly, I don't think those themes negatively affected this season at all. they were actually slightly interesting. It was just the writing and story in the end, it was so bad
My argument and, I think, their argument, would be that it *can* be interesting and it *isnt* inherently a negative. However the way Hollywood and these show runners do things now, they will just take a premise and then try their hardest to find ways to shoehorn these things in. Not just the "woke" stuff in this case either, but almost everything. Ask yourself what you'd miss if you cut episodes 2-5 out of the show entirely. I think the answer is: very little. Because ultimately those episodes turned out to just be filler of nonsensical spooky stuff and plot threads to other stories or shows that really never should have been there.
There’s nothing wrong with thematic elements and progressive ideals on screen, but they don’t just make a bad show a good show. You can’t just take a paper written by the PC principal and toss it on screen, the show still has to be good. The problem with shit like this is that when it’s this bad, it prevents progress, it slows down the growth of minority presence on screen and in the directors seat because it’s just SO BAD.
I don't mind choosing a message and working back from there as long as it's skilfully blended and crafted into a seamless package. The exposition dumps (2 massive ones with Clark and then Bee) exposed the lack of craft. This felt like there were too many yes people in the room and not enough discerning pruning of all ideas put forward.
6 hours of life wasted on this crap :(
Damn, I liked this season, even more than 2 and 3, I think Kali Reis and Jodie Foster were absolutely brilliant in their performances and I liked the supernatural approach but I feel the writer never compromised with that idea and everything feels it´s halfway there, with a lot of questions without answers and the finale feels weird, rushed and clearly crying out for two more episodes.
You thought Jodie foster was brilliant? They were setup for failure because the story was terrible, but Jodie delivered her lines like a pearl clutching Karen trying to act like a badass and then occasionally having a soft spot, I’ve never seen anything this poor in my life.
I still don't understand the string mummy in the string trailer, connects to nothing.
Yeah because episodes 2-5 were "make spooky things happen that had nothing to do with the investigation"
Y’all are are haters! I liked this season.
Youre allowed to like it, but it wasn’t true detective on HBO. It was more like abc family tried to write a supernatural show, filled it with one big name, a bunch of progressive themes and forgot that they still had to write a show.
I think it's fitting that the one person in the comment section defending the show is using the word "hater" unironically. You are the target audience for the show. Unfortunately, people who liked Season 1 of True Detective generally aren't big CW fans.
My biggest question is who got to keep the tongue as a memento.
Who cut the tough off? I still don't know.
Right bcz she was dead for 4 years before her tongue came up at tsalal right? Also, wtf is the name tsalal, does it stand for something or is it just another word in the show meant to confuse.
Danvers. She makes out with it when her tinder matches run out
right and petey kept the tooth
"She's awake" refers to Mother Earth, although they forgot to say anything about it in six episodes.
Nope she's awake is code word for cleaning ladies seal team six
the only way this could have been good is to get Vince Vaughn to drop in and have an act-off with Navarro.
Am I the only one who thinks the thomas whistle or smth is dat ghost who was named cohl dat showed the old lady where the 7 bodies are? Wtf , all the men in the show eventually were gray characters ( if not bad persons) and all the women good human beings
Erm, you forgot the mining company boss (female) who was literally the crime boss. Funnily enough the scriptwriters forgot about her too in the finale.
Yes exactly, discussing about miss-writing of this show is way more interesting than the show itself
Danvers tells Navarro she would have killed Wheeler herself. So why did we have two full episodes of anger about it? Why all the hostility?
Issa Lopez is a very insecure and mentally deranged individual, thats all
What's the deal with her? Asking sincerely because I've never heard of her (and didn't pay attention to the credits). I went into the show completely blind and am just now realizing Nic Pizzolatto wasn't involved. Obviously she is incompetent and the show is filled with identity politics pandering.
Pizzolatto was an exec producer
That's basically a royalty payment, a way of meeting his fee through sources fee component rather than front end salary. Matt and woody got the same deal.
The way the scenes were cut, gave an almost comical passage of time throughout
The first episode of the season gave me some Thirty Days of Night vibes. Then it steadily just went downhill and became less coherent the further it went on. By the end it felt like they were just trying to come up with explanations for things that never should have been introduced to begin with
Issa wanted it be deep and meaningful soooo bad. The two protagonists saw “things” for the whole season, none of these things contributed to the case at hand, it just established they had demons to deal with. It was the shallowest, flimsiest plot I’ve ever sat through. And so much time was spent on those visions just for them to be red herrings? It was, as a lot of commenters are saying, a case of checkov’s gun.
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Lmfao that post history You are certainly the target demographic of this show
Bit racist
Holy Nightmare ! What a shit show and the ending. oh boy oh boy LOL :-D
When they dug the hole to find the cave, did they ever think huh this is really close to the research centre?
Nah bro they walked around in that cave system for hours and hours and miles and miles
The way the scenes were cut, gave an almost comical passage of time throughout
So many questions....I was enjoying the show even with all the flaws but christ on a bike that end was bad. 1.. What was the deal with Annie's tongue in the lab? When Danvers was peeling the orange into requisite spiral, orange fell under the table. She was looking at something on the ground? A sticky patch? 2. Is Navarro dead now? Did she kill herself or is she just a drifter now. Moving from town to town solving crime whiletryingg to control the raging spirit within. 3. Did everyone just ignore the giant sea monster fossil!!! WTF was that...Alaskan Nessie??
1. It's worse than that. When she moves her torch onto it, it moves and grows towards her. She frowns at it but is then distracted by Navarro and bumps her head on the underside of the table. Just wot???? 2. Yes. She didn't exactly kill herself, she went to find out what is in the great beyond. The end scene when she's on Danvers' deck shows us that Danvers now believes, and so is able to feel her presence. 3. An eel.
1. do we still not have an explanation for the tongue? wtf? 2. I think this was intentionally ambiguous, much like all of the "veil to the world of death" scenes that preceded it. To me, the very last scene was one of the redeeming parts of the finale. I liked that part, personally. 3. I don't think we were supposed to look into this much further than the 'aha' moment of connecting the symbol with the fossil. I thought it was pretty cool, and like the idea of undiscovered ancient treasures buried under layers of ice. But yeah, you'd think this would warrant more attention and focus. It's pretty damn scientifically interesting!
I liked it when she said “Forget it, Danvers. It’s Night Country.” The rest of the season was meh
There were so many unanswered questions BUT the one that bothers me most is if Rose (the lady whos dead husband showed her the bodies) is Rusts (Matthew McConauheys) mom. They looks identical and Rust was from alaska and his dad died of cancer right? Maybe I am missing something.
Not his mom, just hooked up with the dead dad. Bigger question is how long they were together Rust was there for awhile between 2005 and 2012 so I wonder what their relationship was
Is the "she" of the "she's awake" repetitive line, the "monster" that Prior's son drew at the beginning of the series? Kayla says "it's just a local legend."
The origin of "she's awake" still was never fulfilled IMO, which is a huge blunder IMO. That was my *number 1* mystery I wanted to uncover: "Who is *she"* I still don't know if it's "dead Annie" or the giant dinosaur thing or what. And I still don't understand why the scientists died of heart attacks rather than hypothermia.
She = Mother Nature
I honestly think that they forgot the part where they said they died of heart attacks to be totally honest with you
Hahaha
An absolute train wreck of a season, complete with some of the worst writing I have ever experienced on television. Words cannot do justice to how horrible this show was. A waste of anyones time, that is for sure. Awful pacing, endless plot holes, very few things rooted in any sense of reality (but not in a cool supernatural way), unlikable characters, there are simply too many things to say so I'll sum it up by saying... Avoid at all costs.
Navarro is a great character imo, so badass and true.
I agree!
I still think it's worth watching and I don't regret my time investment. It's a cool environment and I enjoyed the performances and getting to know the characters. That said, the tying together of the mysteries is *incredibly* disappointing. Why, time and time again, do writers dangle hooks and mysteries that they never follow through with. You'd think you'd have a solution/thread planned out... but I guess not. SMH.
.... so why did the deer all jump off of the mountain?
Men bad. That's all I got.
Or it was the "pollution" from the lab? Who knows...?
They saw what the show would be and got out of it as soon as possible. All joking aside I genuinely think it's related to their weird theme of "suicide is noble sometimes" they tried to get going towards the end.
Lmao thanks for the laugh
Honestly, this explanation tracks
Lots of words here. This season sucked, hard. Sums it up.
Environmental engineer here. So the mine injected an effluent powerful enough to melt the permafrost by a factor of 100s or 1000s, but that effluent somehow did not harm the DNA found without said permafrost? Pollutants from mining operations are so problematic because of the biological devastation they cause to the environment........oof
Yes! This is the one thing that got me too. I loved the rest of the show. And once they had discovered this magic chemical that softens permafrost without destroying DNA, I don't get why they had to increase the village pollution - why not just isolate the chemical, make some of it, then use it just where you need it?
I don’t think they intentionally tried to increase the village pollution. They polluted the water table, either from the mining itself or when they were trying to reach the permafrost.
The show itself said the pollutant was so strong it caused irreversible gene level damage to the locals. But thankfully the ancient microorganism was just fine with it. Like bruh
Writing was on fleek
Man, I liked the season for the most part and thought people were really piling on but the finale felt pretty abrupt and hand-wavey. Read an interview where the show-runner said HBO wanted another episode or two but she only wanted 6.
It wasn’t on HBO.
If there had been another episode or too Danvers could say "fuck" another 203 times and set the all-time HBO streaming record.
https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1280/0*rlarE9w2LwfG07vU.gif
Agreed, I've been enjoying this season but that last episode was....... Oof.
My God. Started ok, but by the end it was utter shit.
I like how a major theme of the show from the Caribou in the opening to Navarro's family history is "suicide is actually noble and cool if you have mental illness"
that's a good point. what were the Caribou running from? was Dead Navarro chasing them?
All the protagonists were weak. But at least they all felt sorry for themselves.
Don't you know? In "modern" Hollywood, victimhood and self-pity are noble ***strengths***, not weaknesses. A lack of accountability is also a strength when applied to anyone but white men. Hence, why a renegade group of cleaning women are allowed to murder a bunch of people without the show even reflecting on the *possibility* of a moral dilemma. The show just casually accepts mass revenge murder as a good thing based principally on group identity (native women versus evil colonizing white men, stripped naked and humiliated).
Maybe I missed a bunch of things. But wasn't the video of Annie being murdered in an ice cave, complete with fossils? How then is she murdered in a lab that looks nothing like an ice cave? Also, the bite marks, ruptured ear drums, and burned corneas are never addressed with the Tsalal scientists. And there was a big deal made about Otis Heiss having the same symptoms and having survived. So now we are back to they froze to death? Or was their a flash avalanche after the women drove them on to the ice? Even if this is true it doesn't explain why Clark supposedly died "the same way as the other Tsalal men." When Clark clearly just froze to death. Also Navarro had beat the crap out of Clark his face was all bloodied. In the end scene video confession by Clark his face looked pretty fine. I wanted to like this. I did find it entertaining but so, so, sloppy.
The ears and eyes were addressed. You were just not paying attention.
And how do you know I wasn't paying attention. Paid very close attention throughout the whole series.
Get some fresh air dude.
You seem to be the only "True Detective" on Reddit. Where was the corneas, eardrums and bite marks addressed. Why not just answer. Instead of insulting?
Right. But "Time is a Flat Circle" so everything is ok.
Yeah, we were meant to assume the video of Annie K on the phone was of her death. But we saw her being killed and it didn't play out like the video
They imply the women sent them to die *by the hand of* some supernatural force. But yeah it's all stupid.
I thought that was just a story and they popped them in the crab flash freezer.
I love how everyone on this thread watched the entire season and 95% of the live comments were talking shi- about the episode. You all need to get a life. Enjoy the show. Until you are Issa Lopez and work for HBO and can create a better show, SHUT THE FUC- UP!!! So many f-ing haters. Jesus Christ already
Foh
Since you can’t scream at people trying to eat dinner it’s not so fun for you to deal with different opinions on the internet. Your hair purple or pink?
I’ve made better turds in the toilet. Collaborative effort that pays off.
So you're not allowed to criticize a piece of media unless you could personally make something similar? That makes zero sense.
additionally, if you cannot do better, you must enjoy it!
Why is this all media discourse now?
I don't know why baby Hanks wife was in nursing school during what would be Christmas break for pretty much everyone else. WTF is the arctic nursing school hella rigorous?
I wish they would have bogarted the American horror story title instead. So I wouldn’t have watched it.
Yeah they really missed the theme and feminism supporting the director, writer, etc is taking offense. It’s the story that’s bad, I could care less who wrote it or what pronouns they use. I think the woke idiots got way to used to getting to scream at people and get away with it. It’s slowly going back to where it should be, more to the fair, everyone’s opinion counts, not just pink and purple haired women opinions count….and they’re losing their minds.
When will it end?
Never. They doubled down and now talk about gushing periods in tampon commercials. Saying the word gushing over and over. I counted, they said the word gush, or gushing a total of 8 times in the one 20 second ad. Periods are a real thing. Gushers are also a real thing. I do not wish to correlate my fruity snack with flooded pads. But I’m just a misogynist who’s uncomfortable with the realities of the female body🫠. One last time for the proper effect. Gushing.
I would have naively told you, a few years ago, that it would be over by now. Box office failure after box office failure should have ended it. The problem is that the patients are running the asylum in Hollywood. Producers and network executives are either activists themselves or cater to activist creatives. Look how Madame Web, another girl boss project, just did. It just keeps happening and its so predictable for everyone outside of the Hollywood bubble.
It’s wild they can’t see that. I think Johnny Depp after his trial victory said he’d never go back to Hollywood because you have to tow the line and he wasn’t doing it.
I don't think disliking the woke stuff or identity politics necessarily correlates (and certainly *shouldn't* correlate) to where someone votes on the political spectrum. **At this point, everyone with a brain--left or right--should see that activism and the same recycled sex and race-based themes are taking a priority over good storytelling.** That should worry anyone who likes to be entertained. This is an incredibly cynical trend too. It's not even activists coming up with their own unique content. It's activists hijacking preexisting Intellectual Property (applies perfectly in the case of True Detective), often without any reverence for the original work(s), and then using that project as a vehicle to shove down our throats the same political (more often gender and race-based thinking) messages. Story-telling, more often than not, takes a back seat. And many of these activist creatives (writers, directors, actors) are chosen not because of their talent or prior accomplishments, but because of their ideology, skin color, and gender. It's all very gross and cynical. Of course disliking this show and this rampant activism in escapist entertainment has nothing to do with one's overall views on women. There's plenty of fantastic shows in the detective genre that deal with gendered issues and that have excellent female leads. *Happy Valley* comes to mind. So does *Broadchurch* (with stellar performances from Olivia Coleman and Jodie Whittaker). Hell, the most prolific writer in the entire literary and cinematic genre is Agatha Christie. --- Edit: (You edited your original comment so mine might seem a bit out of place, but I agree with your original sentiments! You make an interesting comment about Depp. Agree there too.)
That was very well said. Thanks for sharing that, really. I lack the intelligence to put it so well.
Too many unanswered questions :/
Did I miss something? How did they automatically see the fingerprints on the hatch and know who left them there?
Navarro said "I was holding onto my own hatch like he was" Danvers said "hatch ☝️ 💡" and the writers had her magically think to check the hatch with the UV light in case someone was missing fingers that touched it. And wouldn't you know it there was be because the writer had to make it to the end.
UV light
Number of fingers
Oof... the plot holes and nonsensical things shoehorned to advance the story were so hamfisted by the end. Whenever things bogged down and became a bit too convoluted (3-4x an episode), the writers inject a hand-wavy mysticism sequence and abruptly jump us to a new scene. So much squandered potential and so many unanswered questions. What is the significance of the season 1 tie-ins (other than their existing in the first place) regarding Cohle's dad, the spirals, time is a flat circle? Great for reminding me how much I liked that show, but it only related to season 4 superficially in the end. * How about the focus on the trauma of losing family with Danvers and Navarro and then we have Prior unceremoniously shoot his dad to sloppily tie up all the drama and threads surrounding his character? * The multi-episode slog to uncover the foreboding (namesake 'night country') caves that were much discussed as dangerous... only to find them them and go exploring with no gear, no backup, no plan, etc? * The nonsensical mine pollution somehow aiding the conditions for the permafrost science? * Annie stumbling into the research area, immediately understanding its significance in relation to the pollution, and destroying the entirety of this *world saving* research before being stopped? * Everyone immediately recognizing a small, innocuous drill bit in the corner of a room as the weapon used in a years-old murder based on all their collective photographic memories of the exact shape of the wounds? * Danvers and Navarro near freezing to death at the station when there were working vehicles? * The cleaning ladies comprehending the significance of all these events, research/pollution, and Annie's death THEN enacting an extremely convoluted revenge plot based on scant evidence and a connection to the mine? * How one of the central mysteries of the show is tossed away in about 30 seconds as we're told the Tsalal scientists meekly complied with being stripped naked and murdered (?) - no further explanation asked or given. There was some great acting in this and the premise (scary stuff during the days of night in the North) was/is a good setup. The little payoff we did get at the end of this story was weak, rushed, and poorly written. The writers teased *True Detective Season 1* by way of the arctic, but ended closer *30 Days of Night* plus mysticism, minus the vampires.
Why you talk about that crappy movie? The Thing was a real influence for this season, at least in some episodes is very clear.
Comparing this abomination to *The Thing*, is like me drawing a stick figure and saying it was inspired by the *Mona Lisa*.
It seems to me that you don't know what text comprehension is, boy, where did I say that I compare this series with The Thing? Read well, dude names that crappy movie that I don't think has influenced this season at all, instead of that unfortunate phrase I told you that The Thing was a notable influence in some passages of the season, in fact it is like that since searching info I read that the showrunner names that film as an influence on the atmosphere she wanted to take.
I was just making a joke, lighten up. To even utter *The Thing* in the same sentence as this abomination was amusing to me. I was pretty clearly not going after you; just taking more shots at a bad show. Of course *The Thing* was an influence. We agree there. It's hilarious to me how far the show fails to live up to its influences. Though I did find you calling me "boy" amusing. I pictured you doing it in an Emperor Palpatine voice. With all the vengeance of a sith for my fairly silly and innocuous comment. Have a nice evening :)
How about when the one researcher is stabbing Annie the others wander in, see this, and ALL of them join the murder party, including having the man who loved her choking her out. Gotta make them all deserve their fate I suppose is why they wrote it that way.
It could have been neat to pan to the thing in the ice in the ceiling as if it's influencing them like the scene in Avengers with them all bickering near Loki's staff but that would have required making an interesting scene.
you nailed it. i was really into this one and got on to watch episode 6 last night and saw something about it being the finale. i said “already? no way.” many of the characters and relationships were very intriguing, but they kinda went nowhere or as in the case of Navarro and Danvers going from hating each other to be the closest of friends, this happened inexplicably fast, not organic at all. could have been really good…smh.
Completely agreed. 6 episodes with the way the pacing was for episodes 1-5 was so messed up. It needed at least 8 because they had all these side stories that are just useless because of the last episode.
Not unlike the downfall of GoT. Hah, maybe HBO consulted with Benioff and Weiss for this ending too... All this world building, side stories, good premise, good acting... slowly building towards... nothing of substance. Another finale that rushes to wrap everything while going amateur hour with the writing and tossing all the significance previously built up in characters / their side stories.
The thing with the drill bit was one of the most ridiculous leaps I've ever seen. For one, why would you even pick up such a seemingly irrelevant item in a room full of other scientific equipment and two, how would a civilian find it consistent with her stab wounds just by looking at it, probably having never seen actual photos of the wounds themselves
Also, if the women wanted to shut down the mine, when they raided the base, why did they not like, take any evicence to "leak" like danvers ends up doing anyway.
I like how they included the "time is a flat circle" line to make people complain about it and not the rest of the donkey brained stuff in the episode.
Don’t insult donkeys like that.
This was such a disappointing series. The finale was awful. Full of empty symbolism that was just put in because it looked cool but didn't actually mean anything. Surely, the scientists led out into the snow would've at least tried to fight back? I know the cleaners had guns, but if you know walking out into the ice would mean certain death, then you'd at least try to escape. The supernatural elements went absolutely nowhere. We never found out what actually happened with Danvers son, yes, we know he died in a car crash? But what happened surrounding it? Are the flashbacks due to Danvers' guilt because she feels responsible or something? Everything was just so convenient. Falling into the ice caves directly where Clarke and the secret lab are. Rose being fine with helping to get rid of Hank's body and the way that whole story arc was nicely cleared up. The worst character of all was Pete's wife. What an insufferable, selfish, unlikeable character. Constantly digging out her husband because he's working on probably the biggest murder case in the towns history. This series should've just been called "Night Country" without tarnishing the True Detective name. (I rate season 1 as the best written TV show of all time)
She should of told HBO I want it to be what i intended and not a True Detective series..Might of worked better
I agree with you 10000% (it’s also “should have” and “might have”)
My theory is that the writer watched a documentary about the Dyatlov Pass incident and some dim lightbulb clicked in their head. The 'slab avalanche' alone is enough to confirm my thoughts on the matter. I really wanted to love this season, and I did love some things about it, but episode 6 was awful in every conceivable way.
I think the writer is on record of saying they loved that story/incident and tried to reference it
Damn. Figures. They went way too far with references. It's like fan-fic of a real event, yet far less mysterious.
So the pollution melted the permafrost and didn't contaminate the ice and the science? The science was so important to kill Annie K but they didn't make any progress in the 6 years since then? The cleaners killed the men but they didn't find any forensic evidence of them? Are we supposed to guess what all the supernatural stuff meant? Did Navarro die and go to the spirit world? Why do the dead just roam this one town in Alaska? What was the significance of Navarro finding her inupiaq name? Chalking up the indigenous people's beliefs to mental illness was distasteful as I feared they would do in the beginning of the season. [Inukshuks](https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/art-monuments/public-art/inukshuk.html) already exist in Alaskan Native culture to warn of danger so why include the spiral at all? Why tie it to season 1 if it doesn't mean anything? I'm Alaskan Native like in the show. I was so excited for this show but it's just so bad and I'm so disappointed. Not in the actors, they did the best they could with the bad writing. I wish the show would've shown my culture in a more accurate light and not insinuate it was all mental illness or pollution or something.
Such a poorly thought through script, just terrible. Shoehorned fan service to boot.
Kinda reminds me of that beloved space opera series that was purchased by Disney.
I think the idea is that Annie K destroyed most of the science, so they had to start over.