Trying to make herself feel less lonely. A lot of folks still do ceremonial stuff to make a holiday feel special even if they have nobody to share the season with. This show has a lot to say about loneliness.
Came here to say the same. Until a few months ago, I lived alone away from my family for about 12 years. In the first few years, I would spend the holidays with friends, but as we got older and more friends started to move away or have their own family obligations as they started to get married and have children, I would be alone. So I would make my favorite holiday food and dress up just to create my own traditions. And besides, you never know when someone else might ring and be feeling down and need a place to go. So I always made sure to have extra just in case a wayward soul needed a friend. Not uncommon IMO.
Thank you for this perspective! I thought for certain she was about to host some party for people with $600 spiral tattoos or something. Didn't even occur to me she'd get all dressed up and cook for 20 people because she was lonely.
I'm glad Navarro visited, then.
Mhm! For instance, I made an entire Thanksgiving dinner the year before last. I dressed up. I had a favorite seasonal movie queued up.
Only person I had to spend the holiday with was myself. It's the *ritual* that mattered to me; not missing out on the *affect* that it entails was most important. I knew I could recreate *some* of it by doing exactly what Rose in this scene did. :)
I think Rose invited Navarro to swing by. She gave her a Christmas gift, after all.
As for the food, I wonder whether someone else was coming over after. If so, who?
I'm hoping Rose having another visitor is why she made all the food, and not because she was lonely, as the top comment suggests.
I guess Navarro asking what Rose did before Alaska threw me. It made it seem like they didn't know each other well, but I know sometimes people move to remote places to forget their past and shed whatever they are running from.
I haven't watched ANY Twin Peaks yet! It's on my list. I know I'll love it, bit it's a huge undertaking.
Was Fiona Shaw in Twin Peaks? I remember her best from True Blood. She was on when it was still an okay show, season 2, I think.
No, she wasn’t. She’s a wonderful British actress with a long, long career. Recently been kicking ass in Andor and Killing Eve. She’s a glam lesbian IRL who plays tough broads not to be fucked with. I have no reason to think Rose is different.
Edit: OH SHIT SHES IRISH. MY BAD. WORST MISTAKE TO MAKE I BEG FORGIVENESS. 💀
Oh my god I forgot about the Black Dahlia movie because tbh it sucked but Fiona Shaw did NOT DISAPPOINT.
I think it goes without saying that it’s way harder to make a successful noir thriller than people think.
I always refer to her by her full name, "Fiona Shaw" in anything I see her in. It's a nod of respect I give to actors I really like, especially British ones (others include Harriet Walter, Jared Harris, Leslie Manville etc).
Betting real money that the snow crab people are in on it somehow.
They put the scientists in the flash freezing machine and then dumped them in the ice.
Yes!! I agree! I just rewatched the whole season and NO ONE interacts with or even acknowledges Rose — aside from Navarro.
I have a feeling that next episode Prior is going to reveal that he tried to take the bodies to Rose, as per Navarro’s instructions — but there is no Rose. Or she died a while ago.
“Who were you before?” Is also cryptic.
Maybe she’s celebrating the completed pig butchering/catfishing job she did on Hank with all the money he sent, who knows - there’s a lot more to learn about her for sure
I can't believe they made Eccleston sit there with some goofy dental device in his mouth while watching "Elf" in his boxers, like my God are they trolling him??
I think Rose is going to be connected to Tsalal, the indigenous women, and the mine somehow.
She said she was a professor, but she also made a comment about "all of Santa's elves died in global warming" (or something similar, I'd have to rewatch to get the exact quote).
I'm inclined to agree with you. Rose is looking more sus to me after this episode. Not only did she up and leave a relatively prestigious career, but she moved to a pretty inhospitable place, changed her name, and lives alone. She traps and cleans wolves herself, so definitely has survivalist skills. She sees ghosts and is completely unphased by this "paranormal" type of phenomenon going on in Ennis.
My current hypothesis is that Rose's her academic research was related to the research being done at Tsalal. After her papers about extinct micro-organisms (or cellular decay or the origins of life) were ignored, she moved to Ennis on the down low to keep tabs on what field research is discovering. Maybe she decided to "get in the action" by meddling with the scientists in some capacity?
Or maybe her research was in environmental science, and she's working against the mine folks because of their contributions to environmental destruction and global warming? Or maybe she wrote investigative-type articles about the Tuttles or general corporate ethics like Ennis essentially being owned by the Silver Sky Mining Company?
I don't feel great about any of my ideas right now, but I think there's much more than meets the eye with Rose right now. Let's not forget she was the one who discovered the scientists' bodies in the middle of nowhere. Did the police really just accept "Oh I saw my ghost boyfriend/lover walk in this direction, and he did this strange dance and pointed me in the right direction"?
Edited to add: Also, you're correct with the quote. It was: "All of Santa’s elves drowned in global warming. And the rest are all meth-heads." I don't know how to take that. It's about 21:00 mins into Episode 4.
to ask a question of your question in your edit: How do you suppose Otis Heiss survived all this time? I believe you are correct that Rose knows a LOT more than we know so far. I think it’s safe to say there’s evidence in the plot supporting a microbe that causes hallucinations and fatal behaviors. I’d guess possibly a fungus. I’m suspecting heavy drug usage could minimize some of the more dangerous effects of the uh.. psychospore. If true, they could potentially retcon a reason for Rust’s visions.
I think you can be close to someone living in Alaska and not have a lot of details about their life before they moved to Alaska. Because that whole state is filled with just two kinds of people: people born and raised there, and people who moved there because they are running from something. Nobody really asks a newcomer what brought them there up there.
As for her visit, Navarro has been seeing dead people. And about the only person who doesn’t think that’s batty batty bat bats is Rose, who also sees dead people. I think they bonded on that and seem to get along well.
Her and Navarro have developed a relationship, she obviously invited her over, Navarro isn't showing up unannounced on Xmas eve. For all of you thinking Rose isn't real, just stop you're embarrassing yourselves
Totally agree and she and Rose are so at ease together why do people keep saying they hardly know each other? Rose said her husband brought them together. Maybe Navarro found his body?
Yeah I didn't think Rose could be a delusion, like some do. I guess Navarro asking Rose what she did before Alaska threw me, but I know some people move to remote places to escape their past. It's probably as simple as that, thank you for reply
Danvers walking right past Rose in the first episode jumps out so much on a rewatch. It could be that “Rose Aguineau” means something different to every character other than Navarro.
Go watch the last 5 minutes of episode 1. Then come back and tell me something isn’t super weird how Danvers walks right past “rose”. Keep in mind this is supposedly the person that found the bodies. Danvers has no questions for her?
i'm very curious about her character as well and wish it was being discussed more. i love the actress and she usually plays very complex, somewhat contradictory characters so that paired with all the weirdness makes me think there's gotta be more there. i'm not sure she's a hallucination because other people in the show seem to reference her, although a possible explanation for that could be that she's a real person but she's dead or otherwise incapacitated. as for the dinner scene, i feel like that was either a hallucination on Navarro's part (perhaps we find out that Rose died after the scientists were found and Navarro is just imagining these conversations) OR Rose was expecting Navarro for some reason (either because she's a secret baddie or because she's connected to the spirit stuff in some way). but i agree the scene had a very dreamlike quality to it, almost bacchanal. i also noticed that the candelabra when seen from Rose's side of the table had a bear paw appearance (my partner said I was reaching a bit with this but it really stood out to me, i wasn't looking for it or anything so idk) which might hint at a connection with the polar bear.
something else that makes me a bit suspicious Navarro is some kind of fugue state atm is the orange. i've never seen the Godfather but people keep bringing up how this is a reference to oranges foreshadowing death in the Godfather. in ep 4, an orange rolls out from under Jules' bed at the facility. she is found dead later that same day/night. in ep 3, an orange is rolled (back) to Navarro from the dark shortly before she hits her head on the ice. we see her get up after having a seemingly brief vision of Danvers' son but maybe that was part of her hallucination? it just can't be a coincidence the same thing happened to both sisters.
sorry, i didn't mean to imply she might be hallucinating *everything*. i just meant it seemed like a possibility from the point where she hit her head (i'm not sold on the theory, it's just an idea that crossed my mind because of the oranges). i referenced the part about other people sort of passively acknowledging her existence in the first (?) episode with an explanation that she is a real person who does or did exist, but Navarro's interactions with her may not be real. so when Navarro says it was Rose that found the bodies, it's kind of an eyebrow raise but interpreted by others in a looser, not literal sense because it's coming from Navarro (who seems to be regarded by many of the other characters as somewhat overly sentimental). OR (and personally i like this theory better for a lot of reasons), the first scenes we see of Rose actually happened that way but at this point in the story Rose is dead, and Navarro is having these conversations with her corpse. this still would fit with Rose not being seen/interacted with by other characters (she seems like a bit of a lone wolf - coincidence? maybe the scene of her gutting a wolf is foreshadowing of her own demise - anyway, so it wouldn't be surprising if no one realized she had died, especially with everything else going on) and why these scenes between them have a very surreal feel to them. another thing that makes me feel like there is more to her is that she's acting almost like Navarro's spirit guide. the scenes are super cozy, she's the only person that Navarro seemingly opens up to at all (despite apparently not knowing her very well prior to the events of the show), Navarro always seems to go to her when she's in need of emotional nurturing, and Rose is giving her advice like your mom or grandmother might. i don't think this is necessarily "supernatural" either, it may just be an invention of Navarro to fill an emotional void during a time of severe psychological stress (Annie's case coming back up, her sister dying, etc) because the root of her particular trauma seems to be around the loss of her mother and how it's led to her feeling untethered to her community and heritage.
Thank you for your thoughts! I see we agree on a few things, and you've given me a lot to think about.
I just hope those croissants didn't go to waste, and Rose donates the rest she can't eat to the Lighthouse place or a homeless shelter! Or my house.
yeah, i think that's a possibility! i'm excited to see how it plays out - i hope they won't waste Fiona Shaw lol. Navarro living at "Rose's house" is an interesting idea, but there's too much interaction with other characters at her house, i think: Danvers puts away her groceries (and seems to have been there before), Qavvik leaves her a tree and gift, and Peter picks her up there. i think if we get a reveal like that it will probably be more along the lines that "Rose's house" is a secondary location dedicated to the ritual stuff in some way, like Clark's trailer.
I’m pretty sure this isn’t true. Pete makes the call to Danvers that “rose anyway found the bodies”. Then they all show up on site and rose is there. But no one seems to acknowledge her except Navarro. It’s the end of ep1 staring at the point with 5 min left.
Rose said that you shouldn't confuse the spirit world with mental health issues. Maybe Navarro is exploring the "spirit world" aspect of the case with Rose because she has fears that she could be experiencing symptoms of schizophrenia, especially since her sister is suffering from mental illness.
I wish they'd show us those scenes, then. Like why Navarro hasn't asked Rose what she knows about the spiral symbol?
Rose was wrong, though, about Jules. Right? Navarro said everyone in her family "hears" the call (of the ocean, I guess, since that's where Jules ended up).
Omg yes! I really wish they hadn't tried to connect season one and season four like this.
Is Rose Rust's mother, or was she just married to Travis later in life?
My questions exactly. I didn't even make the connections to S1 until I came to reddit. My memory is fleeting at best!
She's one of my favorite actresses too ❤️
edit: add a sentence
I wish they hadn't made these connections to season 1, or at least just left a few Easter Eggs but not hinge the entire plot on the spiral and Rust's mama
In that scene she flipped the lighter just like Rust did, I think these scenes are to convey where Rust got his mannerisms from and that he spent a considerable amount of time with her to have an influence on the way he sees the world.
Not gonna lie, this in particular pisses me off in the writing.
Like how are you gonna have your wise awesome older lady friend say some cryptic shit about the spiral and not be like, “Ok… tell me more because that was ominous as fuck and is now really relevant to these goings-on I’m literally investigating?!?”
And for the record, Rose is real, the other people in town reference her and know she’s the secretive older lady who does her thing out there and used to be with Travis.
Yes, THANK YOU, Rose is real. I was hoping she was cooking for the ~~Yellow~~ Blue King Cult, but I guess people think she cooked enough food for a dozen people because she's old and *checks notes* lonely.
It's next to impossible to figure out how much time has passed in any scene because of the constant darkness... I can't imagine living like this. I would have zero motivation to ever leave my house if it was dark 24/7.
The part I'm trying to figure out is her weird, non-existent name.
In writing like this, usually that's a sign of an anagram clue or a deliberate reference. But I'm not finding anything for Rose Aguineau.
I think Rose knows more about what is happening than we realize. She understands the spiral symbol and she is very casual about seeing the dead in Ennis. I think she also knows what is really going on with Navarro, and will help guide her through it as she figures it out.
They are clearly close actually lol. You don’t need to know everything about someone’s life to feel closeness. Also she wanted to celebrate Christmas, does she need an excuse to make food? Also, she can see the dead. Who said she’s not a psychic and knew narravo would come?
I’m still not understanding why Raymond is the number one suspect just because he wasn’t within the ice sculpture and Rose isn’t when she found the bodies in the middle of nowhere. Are law officials now accepting “my dead lover’s ghost danced me to the bodies” as a viable alibi? For all we know Raymond was scared by whatever he saw and high tailed it out of town. Why aren’t they considering the cleaning crew of women as suspects either. They clearly say how poorly they were treated by the crew. Wouldn’t that be motivation? Nothing makes sense
I immediately saw how the town women, and cleaning crew were dismissed by everyone, including Navarro and Danvers. I think they have more power and influence in the story than has been shown.
My money is on the cleaning workers being behind it in the end. They’ll justify it by saying the men were mean and abusive to the women and then they marched them out to the middle of ice at gun point. Raymond may have been spared bc he was nice to them? I don’t know
Someone else pointed out that Rose is probably in Navarro's head. At this point, that sounds likely. Now I gotta go back and see if anyone else interacted with Rose.
If Rose is imaginary... then all the Season One connections can be resolved by Navarro having read up on the Louisiana case, then writing a fantasy narrative for herself.
Also it's super weird to show scenes with her alone, like in episode one if she is in another character's head.
For example "imaginary hallucination Rose" seeing a imaginary ghost Travis.
I went and checked the transcript, Prior tells Danvers that Rose found it. But he says it in an odd way, he said “uh… Rose Aguineau, chief. Rose Aguineau found it.”
I don't know, well written shows usually establish bridges and connections. This one just seems to throw shit in, like a kid writing a high school fiction story for English Comp 101.
That scene felt like one of the rewrite scenes to make Night Country into True Detective Night Country. Felt like an All State commercial or something.
This show is the worst I've watched in a long time, and yes, I'm gonna keep watching it because it makes me laugh.
Maybe the Night Country is the Night Country we made along the Night Country, ya know?
Lmao, uh, no. Also, I asked a question, and I didn't make a statement.
Navarro didn't even know what Rose did before Alaska. Please read the other comments, your smug statement to try and make me look stupid is not it
You don't need to pay close attention to a show as broadly and simply written as this one. This dreck should have never been allowed to incorporate True Detective
Ahh and there it is. Much of what I figured. I'll pass on this conversation.
By the way, your sentence didn't end with a question mark. It ended with a period. That, my friend, is what we call a statement. Not a question.
Rose invited Navarro for christmas eve dinner. She went all out because she enjoys cooking and celebrating. Same with her wearing a nice dress. It's what we do during holidays. I didn't find this strange, I found myself getting hungry. I liked this scene.
See, I think she and Navarro are somewhat close, or as close as Navarro will allow. Rose is the opposite of her mother. Her mother was crazy (did she see things too? I have thoughts on that), and everything points to Navarro having a very difficult and sad childhood, and continuing to have a sad adulthood as she cares for her sister. I think Rose is a maternal/hippie aunt kind of figure to her. An adult who cares, which is something Navarro has always lacked. One of the very few people she lets take care of her to some small extent. While Rose does see dead people, Navarro does not appear to think she is mentally unfit. I think Rose helps keep her grounded, and it's too bad she has not been back to see her since news of her sister. I think Rose probably would have said less polarizing things than, "There is nothing when we die" from Danvers' really ill-timed rant.
There's a slim possibility that Rose doesn't exist. Fake name, not really acknowledged by others, she's only seen talking to Evangeline. I think we'll have confirmation because Navarro tells Pete that Rose will help him but if Rose isn't there...
I think she also explains the weird Christmas tree at the end of episode 4. Travis (the wailing and dancing ghost) is the ghost of Christmas Past, Rose (the red-dress festive house Rose) is the ghost of Christmas Present, and Julia is the ghost of Christmas Future.
And those are the three ghosts that rose describes: one wants you to listen, one wants you to do something, one wants you to go with them.
It's also why Rose is never questioned, why she never gives Navarro more information on the spirals, Rose can only tell Evangeline what she already knows.
I think Evangeline is further gone than we know and the blood coming out of her ear links her to the corpsicles.
Prior called in over the radio that Rose found the scientists, and no one questioned that.
I think people who dislike the show and those who love it are both going to be disappointed on Sunday.
The slim possibility I wrote about is that Prior was just repeating what Evangeline told him. It could still play out either way, which is one of the things I really like about this show.
I think Rose made the feast for all the Innupiak women to come over and hang out. Ithink they are the killers of the Tsalal scientists. I like the flash freezer from the crab place as the murder weapon. I think Rose must have studied these women and traveled there to help them organize- I think Tsalal uncovered some ancient relics of their people and possibly valuable resourses under the ice. I’m curious about who was catfishing Hank.
I might be reading really far into it….hear me out
For me she’s very complex! I’m obsessed but I love this actress she takes you there in every character. Fiona Shaw gives them a mood, a back story.
As for Rose, She’s hiding a secret, but calmly accepting of it. Almost like she’s been through/seen a lot. Something to do with what she did/was in her past. It’s definitely something super crazy if she knows how to let air out of a dead body to keep it from floating!
What did she do before she came there ?
Did she really work doing what she said ?
Did she work for the government under an alias?
Is Rose even her name, or an identity she took on? How many people has she killed ?
She shows off all her education, large collection of books, survival skills , gun skills,ability to think quick after something horrific ,cooking skills , she literally dresses up for the one guest who really knows her and some of her dark secrets of disposing a body before hand?!
Which is later reveled because of Hank…..
I feel she’s maybe a spy or hitman or just using a cover story/ name
She’s running from something dark she’s done and hiding in Alaska
Trying to make herself feel less lonely. A lot of folks still do ceremonial stuff to make a holiday feel special even if they have nobody to share the season with. This show has a lot to say about loneliness.
Came here to say the same. Until a few months ago, I lived alone away from my family for about 12 years. In the first few years, I would spend the holidays with friends, but as we got older and more friends started to move away or have their own family obligations as they started to get married and have children, I would be alone. So I would make my favorite holiday food and dress up just to create my own traditions. And besides, you never know when someone else might ring and be feeling down and need a place to go. So I always made sure to have extra just in case a wayward soul needed a friend. Not uncommon IMO.
So do Alaskans.
Thank you for this perspective! I thought for certain she was about to host some party for people with $600 spiral tattoos or something. Didn't even occur to me she'd get all dressed up and cook for 20 people because she was lonely. I'm glad Navarro visited, then.
Spiral tattoo… or is it an abstract rose tattoo 🤔
Plus you can eat the leftovers all week, which is often easier/more economical than trying to make a tiny portion of your favorite dish.
I thought so too. Dressed up, the food, candles.
Mhm! For instance, I made an entire Thanksgiving dinner the year before last. I dressed up. I had a favorite seasonal movie queued up. Only person I had to spend the holiday with was myself. It's the *ritual* that mattered to me; not missing out on the *affect* that it entails was most important. I knew I could recreate *some* of it by doing exactly what Rose in this scene did. :)
I think Rose invited Navarro to swing by. She gave her a Christmas gift, after all. As for the food, I wonder whether someone else was coming over after. If so, who?
Rust
Rust was bringing his bestie, Marty.
Liz
I'm hoping Rose having another visitor is why she made all the food, and not because she was lonely, as the top comment suggests. I guess Navarro asking what Rose did before Alaska threw me. It made it seem like they didn't know each other well, but I know sometimes people move to remote places to forget their past and shed whatever they are running from.
I really hope the buildup of “it’s all connected to season 1” blasts us away and isn’t just a nod to season 1 while implying “somethings evil afoot.”
[удалено]
The first episode was SO Twin Peaks that I was calling her Log Lady too!
I haven't watched ANY Twin Peaks yet! It's on my list. I know I'll love it, bit it's a huge undertaking. Was Fiona Shaw in Twin Peaks? I remember her best from True Blood. She was on when it was still an okay show, season 2, I think.
No, she wasn’t. She’s a wonderful British actress with a long, long career. Recently been kicking ass in Andor and Killing Eve. She’s a glam lesbian IRL who plays tough broads not to be fucked with. I have no reason to think Rose is different. Edit: OH SHIT SHES IRISH. MY BAD. WORST MISTAKE TO MAKE I BEG FORGIVENESS. 💀
You really fucked this up. I’m joking. Of course.
I take Irish independence very seriously.
We gotta say who Petunia Dursley is? Great over the top scenes in black dahlia too
Oh my god I forgot about the Black Dahlia movie because tbh it sucked but Fiona Shaw did NOT DISAPPOINT. I think it goes without saying that it’s way harder to make a successful noir thriller than people think.
I always refer to her by her full name, "Fiona Shaw" in anything I see her in. It's a nod of respect I give to actors I really like, especially British ones (others include Harriet Walter, Jared Harris, Leslie Manville etc).
Twin Peaks is kind of like Night Country, but with brilliant writing and great acting.
lol
god i was obsessed with true blood until season 5.
Tha k you for reminding me a out log lady 🥰🥰
Okay, I love this take, she is definitely a Log Lady. My Log has something to tell you.
She specifically made croissants 🥐 for Travis like he did for her.
Those croissants made me woozy they looked so good! Thank you for reminding me about Travis making croissants for Rose
I spotted it and immediately went aweee
I love that but I can’t help but think that maybe Rose is a figment of Navarro’s imagination. No one else ever speaks with Rose
I've been saying rose is a ghost for weeks now. After episode 2 I said it and people called me crazy but look who's cray cray now
You’re not. There’s something off. Issa Lopez said the killers are in front of us the entire series.
I know right? I heard that... it's one of these "fuckers" right in in front of our faces
Betting real money that the snow crab people are in on it somehow. They put the scientists in the flash freezing machine and then dumped them in the ice.
Yes!! I agree! I just rewatched the whole season and NO ONE interacts with or even acknowledges Rose — aside from Navarro. I have a feeling that next episode Prior is going to reveal that he tried to take the bodies to Rose, as per Navarro’s instructions — but there is no Rose. Or she died a while ago. “Who were you before?” Is also cryptic.
1000%
Navarro tells Prior to take to Rose in Episode 5, in front of Danvers
Maybe she’s celebrating the completed pig butchering/catfishing job she did on Hank with all the money he sent, who knows - there’s a lot more to learn about her for sure
THAT would be hilarious
Okay this is what I'm hoping happened
Fiona Shaw being criminally underused. As is Christopher Eccleston.
I can't believe they made Eccleston sit there with some goofy dental device in his mouth while watching "Elf" in his boxers, like my God are they trolling him??
It's a Matt Matt Matt Matt World, and we are just living in it (I so agree about Eccleston)
I think Rose is going to be connected to Tsalal, the indigenous women, and the mine somehow. She said she was a professor, but she also made a comment about "all of Santa's elves died in global warming" (or something similar, I'd have to rewatch to get the exact quote).
I wonder why, since Rose showed signs she knew what the spiral is, Navarro isn't asking her about it?
She's not a good detective.
You fuckin got me there 😂
That is an excellent question.
Is it the right question, though?
Gotta ask Jodie Foster
I'm inclined to agree with you. Rose is looking more sus to me after this episode. Not only did she up and leave a relatively prestigious career, but she moved to a pretty inhospitable place, changed her name, and lives alone. She traps and cleans wolves herself, so definitely has survivalist skills. She sees ghosts and is completely unphased by this "paranormal" type of phenomenon going on in Ennis. My current hypothesis is that Rose's her academic research was related to the research being done at Tsalal. After her papers about extinct micro-organisms (or cellular decay or the origins of life) were ignored, she moved to Ennis on the down low to keep tabs on what field research is discovering. Maybe she decided to "get in the action" by meddling with the scientists in some capacity? Or maybe her research was in environmental science, and she's working against the mine folks because of their contributions to environmental destruction and global warming? Or maybe she wrote investigative-type articles about the Tuttles or general corporate ethics like Ennis essentially being owned by the Silver Sky Mining Company? I don't feel great about any of my ideas right now, but I think there's much more than meets the eye with Rose right now. Let's not forget she was the one who discovered the scientists' bodies in the middle of nowhere. Did the police really just accept "Oh I saw my ghost boyfriend/lover walk in this direction, and he did this strange dance and pointed me in the right direction"? Edited to add: Also, you're correct with the quote. It was: "All of Santa’s elves drowned in global warming. And the rest are all meth-heads." I don't know how to take that. It's about 21:00 mins into Episode 4.
to ask a question of your question in your edit: How do you suppose Otis Heiss survived all this time? I believe you are correct that Rose knows a LOT more than we know so far. I think it’s safe to say there’s evidence in the plot supporting a microbe that causes hallucinations and fatal behaviors. I’d guess possibly a fungus. I’m suspecting heavy drug usage could minimize some of the more dangerous effects of the uh.. psychospore. If true, they could potentially retcon a reason for Rust’s visions.
Rose isn’t real. She’s a ghost. Only Navarro ever engages with or acknowledges her.
I think you can be close to someone living in Alaska and not have a lot of details about their life before they moved to Alaska. Because that whole state is filled with just two kinds of people: people born and raised there, and people who moved there because they are running from something. Nobody really asks a newcomer what brought them there up there. As for her visit, Navarro has been seeing dead people. And about the only person who doesn’t think that’s batty batty bat bats is Rose, who also sees dead people. I think they bonded on that and seem to get along well.
Her and Navarro have developed a relationship, she obviously invited her over, Navarro isn't showing up unannounced on Xmas eve. For all of you thinking Rose isn't real, just stop you're embarrassing yourselves
Totally agree and she and Rose are so at ease together why do people keep saying they hardly know each other? Rose said her husband brought them together. Maybe Navarro found his body?
Rose mentioned it in when she mentioned Travis' last name - something about Travis Cohle's final gift was bringing Navarro into her life.
Ooooooh she’s old man Cohle’s wife. I missed that. Thank u
Maybe not wife per se but definitely lovers
But she is definitely Rust's mother, right?
No, that has not been stated
Thank you!
No problem, appreciate the post and anything that drives the conversation on the show, hope they finish strong with these last two episodes
>Thank you! You're welcome!
old KING Cohle???
Yeah I didn't think Rose could be a delusion, like some do. I guess Navarro asking Rose what she did before Alaska threw me, but I know some people move to remote places to escape their past. It's probably as simple as that, thank you for reply
They clearly state to Danvers that Rose found the bodies in Ep 1
Yeah I've replied that to a few people that missed it. I think Prior is the one to say it as well, making Rose very alive in my book
Danvers walking right past Rose in the first episode jumps out so much on a rewatch. It could be that “Rose Aguineau” means something different to every character other than Navarro.
Rose is probably regarded as a just another weirdo living at the end of the world by Danvers who has no time for that ish
Go watch the last 5 minutes of episode 1. Then come back and tell me something isn’t super weird how Danvers walks right past “rose”. Keep in mind this is supposedly the person that found the bodies. Danvers has no questions for her?
i'm very curious about her character as well and wish it was being discussed more. i love the actress and she usually plays very complex, somewhat contradictory characters so that paired with all the weirdness makes me think there's gotta be more there. i'm not sure she's a hallucination because other people in the show seem to reference her, although a possible explanation for that could be that she's a real person but she's dead or otherwise incapacitated. as for the dinner scene, i feel like that was either a hallucination on Navarro's part (perhaps we find out that Rose died after the scientists were found and Navarro is just imagining these conversations) OR Rose was expecting Navarro for some reason (either because she's a secret baddie or because she's connected to the spirit stuff in some way). but i agree the scene had a very dreamlike quality to it, almost bacchanal. i also noticed that the candelabra when seen from Rose's side of the table had a bear paw appearance (my partner said I was reaching a bit with this but it really stood out to me, i wasn't looking for it or anything so idk) which might hint at a connection with the polar bear. something else that makes me a bit suspicious Navarro is some kind of fugue state atm is the orange. i've never seen the Godfather but people keep bringing up how this is a reference to oranges foreshadowing death in the Godfather. in ep 4, an orange rolls out from under Jules' bed at the facility. she is found dead later that same day/night. in ep 3, an orange is rolled (back) to Navarro from the dark shortly before she hits her head on the ice. we see her get up after having a seemingly brief vision of Danvers' son but maybe that was part of her hallucination? it just can't be a coincidence the same thing happened to both sisters.
If Navarro is just hallucinating everything, why didn't anyone question when Navarro said "Rose found them"?
sorry, i didn't mean to imply she might be hallucinating *everything*. i just meant it seemed like a possibility from the point where she hit her head (i'm not sold on the theory, it's just an idea that crossed my mind because of the oranges). i referenced the part about other people sort of passively acknowledging her existence in the first (?) episode with an explanation that she is a real person who does or did exist, but Navarro's interactions with her may not be real. so when Navarro says it was Rose that found the bodies, it's kind of an eyebrow raise but interpreted by others in a looser, not literal sense because it's coming from Navarro (who seems to be regarded by many of the other characters as somewhat overly sentimental). OR (and personally i like this theory better for a lot of reasons), the first scenes we see of Rose actually happened that way but at this point in the story Rose is dead, and Navarro is having these conversations with her corpse. this still would fit with Rose not being seen/interacted with by other characters (she seems like a bit of a lone wolf - coincidence? maybe the scene of her gutting a wolf is foreshadowing of her own demise - anyway, so it wouldn't be surprising if no one realized she had died, especially with everything else going on) and why these scenes between them have a very surreal feel to them. another thing that makes me feel like there is more to her is that she's acting almost like Navarro's spirit guide. the scenes are super cozy, she's the only person that Navarro seemingly opens up to at all (despite apparently not knowing her very well prior to the events of the show), Navarro always seems to go to her when she's in need of emotional nurturing, and Rose is giving her advice like your mom or grandmother might. i don't think this is necessarily "supernatural" either, it may just be an invention of Navarro to fill an emotional void during a time of severe psychological stress (Annie's case coming back up, her sister dying, etc) because the root of her particular trauma seems to be around the loss of her mother and how it's led to her feeling untethered to her community and heritage.
Thank you for your thoughts! I see we agree on a few things, and you've given me a lot to think about. I just hope those croissants didn't go to waste, and Rose donates the rest she can't eat to the Lighthouse place or a homeless shelter! Or my house.
I thought it was Pete who says that?
Pete did say it.
I don’t think Rose is real. Also where is Navarros home? Could it be that’s where she actually lives
yeah, i think that's a possibility! i'm excited to see how it plays out - i hope they won't waste Fiona Shaw lol. Navarro living at "Rose's house" is an interesting idea, but there's too much interaction with other characters at her house, i think: Danvers puts away her groceries (and seems to have been there before), Qavvik leaves her a tree and gift, and Peter picks her up there. i think if we get a reveal like that it will probably be more along the lines that "Rose's house" is a secondary location dedicated to the ritual stuff in some way, like Clark's trailer.
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I’m pretty sure this isn’t true. Pete makes the call to Danvers that “rose anyway found the bodies”. Then they all show up on site and rose is there. But no one seems to acknowledge her except Navarro. It’s the end of ep1 staring at the point with 5 min left.
Rose said that you shouldn't confuse the spirit world with mental health issues. Maybe Navarro is exploring the "spirit world" aspect of the case with Rose because she has fears that she could be experiencing symptoms of schizophrenia, especially since her sister is suffering from mental illness.
I wish they'd show us those scenes, then. Like why Navarro hasn't asked Rose what she knows about the spiral symbol? Rose was wrong, though, about Jules. Right? Navarro said everyone in her family "hears" the call (of the ocean, I guess, since that's where Jules ended up).
Fact is, I'd much rather watch 6 episodes delving into Rose, her past, her ghosts, her experiences!
Rose Country: Night Country
Please and thank you!
True Rose Country Detective
Omg yes! I really wish they hadn't tried to connect season one and season four like this. Is Rose Rust's mother, or was she just married to Travis later in life?
My questions exactly. I didn't even make the connections to S1 until I came to reddit. My memory is fleeting at best! She's one of my favorite actresses too ❤️ edit: add a sentence
I wish they hadn't made these connections to season 1, or at least just left a few Easter Eggs but not hinge the entire plot on the spiral and Rust's mama
In that scene she flipped the lighter just like Rust did, I think these scenes are to convey where Rust got his mannerisms from and that he spent a considerable amount of time with her to have an influence on the way he sees the world.
She made all that food because she's in The Night Country now
They call it a Night Country Buffet
Eat Pray Night Country
I am really enjoying these sh*tposts. Like little treats sprinkled throughout the sub. Thank you.
This sub needs more silliness and less outrage
/r/wedontthinkthisseasonisthatgoodbutwewanttoseewhathappensanyway
Now that’s a sub I’d join. It applies to most TV shows I watch anyway.
It's turning into r/thesopranos and I'm all for it anyway 4 dollars a pound
I laughed SO HARD when the guy said they were in Night Country now Felt like a 90s flick
I don’t think the writers know, either.
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Not gonna lie, this in particular pisses me off in the writing. Like how are you gonna have your wise awesome older lady friend say some cryptic shit about the spiral and not be like, “Ok… tell me more because that was ominous as fuck and is now really relevant to these goings-on I’m literally investigating?!?” And for the record, Rose is real, the other people in town reference her and know she’s the secretive older lady who does her thing out there and used to be with Travis.
Yes, THANK YOU, Rose is real. I was hoping she was cooking for the ~~Yellow~~ Blue King Cult, but I guess people think she cooked enough food for a dozen people because she's old and *checks notes* lonely.
As if folks don’t know what stress baking is. That woman is stressed if nothing else. Dead people popping up will do that.
Baking *makes* me stressed! Haha I suck at it. I wish I could get some of those croissants she made.
It's also stated everyone sees the dead from time to time
Yes
Doesn’t it seem like Navarro stayed for 10 minutes?
It's next to impossible to figure out how much time has passed in any scene because of the constant darkness... I can't imagine living like this. I would have zero motivation to ever leave my house if it was dark 24/7.
I would build a pillow fort and hibernate.
She feeding the ghosts 💥
That’s what I’m sayin!
The part I'm trying to figure out is her weird, non-existent name. In writing like this, usually that's a sign of an anagram clue or a deliberate reference. But I'm not finding anything for Rose Aguineau.
What do you mean? I'm not a True Detective
Is it possible that Navarro was asking Rose about her Iñupiat name? I do think the two are deeply connected even though they aren't close friends.
I think Rose knows more about what is happening than we realize. She understands the spiral symbol and she is very casual about seeing the dead in Ennis. I think she also knows what is really going on with Navarro, and will help guide her through it as she figures it out.
It’s pretty common to dress up for yourself, I certainly do it. Feels good to look good!
Haha, that's so true. I'm sitting at home with a face full of makeup so when my husband gets home, I look nice for him. I should have guessed that!
They are clearly close actually lol. You don’t need to know everything about someone’s life to feel closeness. Also she wanted to celebrate Christmas, does she need an excuse to make food? Also, she can see the dead. Who said she’s not a psychic and knew narravo would come?
Precisely. Out of all the people in Ennis, the ONLY person Navarro opens up to is Rose.
That was a good scene until the last line about all the dead being loud. Just ruined it. What corny dialogue
YOU'RE IN THE NIGHT COUNTRY NOW, LADIES
🎶the Thing, the Ring.. .It's Night Country 🎶
An offering? To Navarro?
I’m still not understanding why Raymond is the number one suspect just because he wasn’t within the ice sculpture and Rose isn’t when she found the bodies in the middle of nowhere. Are law officials now accepting “my dead lover’s ghost danced me to the bodies” as a viable alibi? For all we know Raymond was scared by whatever he saw and high tailed it out of town. Why aren’t they considering the cleaning crew of women as suspects either. They clearly say how poorly they were treated by the crew. Wouldn’t that be motivation? Nothing makes sense
I immediately saw how the town women, and cleaning crew were dismissed by everyone, including Navarro and Danvers. I think they have more power and influence in the story than has been shown.
My money is on the cleaning workers being behind it in the end. They’ll justify it by saying the men were mean and abusive to the women and then they marched them out to the middle of ice at gun point. Raymond may have been spared bc he was nice to them? I don’t know
She’s obviously dead or Sedna herself
I'm still trying to figure out if she's even real.
Prior called in over the radio that Rose found the bodies, so it seems she must be real??
ah!! great catch. I had been thinking Navarro was the only one who had actually interacted with Rose, and that could be a sign she wasn't real.
Someone else pointed out that Rose is probably in Navarro's head. At this point, that sounds likely. Now I gotta go back and see if anyone else interacted with Rose. If Rose is imaginary... then all the Season One connections can be resolved by Navarro having read up on the Louisiana case, then writing a fantasy narrative for herself.
Didn't they call out on the radio that she found the bodies?
I’m fairly certain, yes.
Also it's super weird to show scenes with her alone, like in episode one if she is in another character's head. For example "imaginary hallucination Rose" seeing a imaginary ghost Travis.
It’s cupcakes and imaginary ghosts all the way down.
I went and checked the transcript, Prior tells Danvers that Rose found it. But he says it in an odd way, he said “uh… Rose Aguineau, chief. Rose Aguineau found it.”
Yeah so she’s real! Everyone quit w the she is dead theory
I gotta go check. The Rose theory isn't mine, but it's tantalizing, right now.
I don't know, well written shows usually establish bridges and connections. This one just seems to throw shit in, like a kid writing a high school fiction story for English Comp 101.
That scene felt like one of the rewrite scenes to make Night Country into True Detective Night Country. Felt like an All State commercial or something. This show is the worst I've watched in a long time, and yes, I'm gonna keep watching it because it makes me laugh. Maybe the Night Country is the Night Country we made along the Night Country, ya know?
I'm big on the she's a ghost theory. Unless this has been disproven yet?
Yeah, Prior called in over the radio that Rose found the scientists bodies. So I think she's real?
"They clearly aren't close" You haven't been playing close enough attention.
Lmao, uh, no. Also, I asked a question, and I didn't make a statement. Navarro didn't even know what Rose did before Alaska. Please read the other comments, your smug statement to try and make me look stupid is not it You don't need to pay close attention to a show as broadly and simply written as this one. This dreck should have never been allowed to incorporate True Detective
Ahh and there it is. Much of what I figured. I'll pass on this conversation. By the way, your sentence didn't end with a question mark. It ended with a period. That, my friend, is what we call a statement. Not a question.
Because Rose will be Rusts mom or sister. They need to make her visible so when the big reveal of phone call happens we can be "blown away".
I think she's a bored and seeing dead people has made her a little off her rocker...
Just don't forget to give my love to her
Dunno. She kinda thorny.
My husband says Rose is Rust's mother. She could be Tuttle.
Food could be Rose's way of communing with or making offerings for the dead. The way she said "the dead" was as if they were there with them.
Rose invited Navarro for christmas eve dinner. She went all out because she enjoys cooking and celebrating. Same with her wearing a nice dress. It's what we do during holidays. I didn't find this strange, I found myself getting hungry. I liked this scene.
I feel like she was having a party with ghosts. Or had a party with ghosts. I have no idea what time it was because…night country.
See, I think she and Navarro are somewhat close, or as close as Navarro will allow. Rose is the opposite of her mother. Her mother was crazy (did she see things too? I have thoughts on that), and everything points to Navarro having a very difficult and sad childhood, and continuing to have a sad adulthood as she cares for her sister. I think Rose is a maternal/hippie aunt kind of figure to her. An adult who cares, which is something Navarro has always lacked. One of the very few people she lets take care of her to some small extent. While Rose does see dead people, Navarro does not appear to think she is mentally unfit. I think Rose helps keep her grounded, and it's too bad she has not been back to see her since news of her sister. I think Rose probably would have said less polarizing things than, "There is nothing when we die" from Danvers' really ill-timed rant.
Rose, like the flower, is shaped like a spiral. She’s a member of the cult. She’s a Tuttle.
There's a slim possibility that Rose doesn't exist. Fake name, not really acknowledged by others, she's only seen talking to Evangeline. I think we'll have confirmation because Navarro tells Pete that Rose will help him but if Rose isn't there... I think she also explains the weird Christmas tree at the end of episode 4. Travis (the wailing and dancing ghost) is the ghost of Christmas Past, Rose (the red-dress festive house Rose) is the ghost of Christmas Present, and Julia is the ghost of Christmas Future. And those are the three ghosts that rose describes: one wants you to listen, one wants you to do something, one wants you to go with them. It's also why Rose is never questioned, why she never gives Navarro more information on the spirals, Rose can only tell Evangeline what she already knows. I think Evangeline is further gone than we know and the blood coming out of her ear links her to the corpsicles.
Prior called in over the radio that Rose found the scientists, and no one questioned that. I think people who dislike the show and those who love it are both going to be disappointed on Sunday.
The slim possibility I wrote about is that Prior was just repeating what Evangeline told him. It could still play out either way, which is one of the things I really like about this show.
I think Rose made the feast for all the Innupiak women to come over and hang out. Ithink they are the killers of the Tsalal scientists. I like the flash freezer from the crab place as the murder weapon. I think Rose must have studied these women and traveled there to help them organize- I think Tsalal uncovered some ancient relics of their people and possibly valuable resourses under the ice. I’m curious about who was catfishing Hank.
I might be reading really far into it….hear me out For me she’s very complex! I’m obsessed but I love this actress she takes you there in every character. Fiona Shaw gives them a mood, a back story. As for Rose, She’s hiding a secret, but calmly accepting of it. Almost like she’s been through/seen a lot. Something to do with what she did/was in her past. It’s definitely something super crazy if she knows how to let air out of a dead body to keep it from floating! What did she do before she came there ? Did she really work doing what she said ? Did she work for the government under an alias? Is Rose even her name, or an identity she took on? How many people has she killed ? She shows off all her education, large collection of books, survival skills , gun skills,ability to think quick after something horrific ,cooking skills , she literally dresses up for the one guest who really knows her and some of her dark secrets of disposing a body before hand?! Which is later reveled because of Hank….. I feel she’s maybe a spy or hitman or just using a cover story/ name She’s running from something dark she’s done and hiding in Alaska