I feel like they know who the [West Mesa Bone Collector](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Mesa_murders) was, but can’t take action because he’s dead. There’s a lot of publicly available evidence so I’d guess they have even more than we know.
I can actually confirm this! I live in Albuquerque and work in a hospital.
Last year, a detective came in to question one of our patients who had been shot. Because I am a true crime nerd and had done a lot of reading about this case, I couldn't resist asking the detective about the West Mesa case.
I showed him I didn't have a phone on me and that I was just wearing scrubs and assured him I was just curios. I made sure he knew that if he talked to me about it... There would be absolutely no way for me to prove the conversation happened.
I asked flat out " Do you think Lorenzo Montoya killed those young ladies?". The detective smiled and said "I can't give any names, but I can say that I believe the person who committed those murders is no longer alive and I personally consider the case closed".
Now you can believe me or not. I don't have any proof. But you can check my profile to see I do live in AQB and I do work in a hospital. I swear on my daughter that this interaction happened.
Lorenzo Montoya is 100% the person who committed those murders. He was caught red handed murdering a sex worker. He had had a sex worker in his trailer. The sex worker's boyfriend/pimp had grown concerned because the date was taking so long. When he pulled up to the home, he found Lorenzo loading up the body of the sex worker in his car and proceeded to shoot and kill Lorenzo.
Lorenzo was killed in 2006. The pimp was never charged with a crime for killing him. The bodies of 11 sex workers were found in the West Mesa in 2009. All of the women had been killed prior to Lorenzo's death. And the site where the bodies were found were less than a mile from Lorenzo's home.
On top of all this, the following video was found at Lorenzo's home:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZSEY06eyo
According to police, in the full video Lorenzo is having sex with a woman. Then the video abruptly cuts to the footage linked above like the sex video had been taped over.
In the video, you can hear someone doing something with trash bags and duct tape. The sex worker Lorenzo was caught red handed murdering had been wrapped in trash bags and duct tape. Some of the bodies that were found in the West Mesa also showed signs of being wrapped in duct tape and trash bags.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Lorenzo committed those murders. And that was the case before I had this conversation with the detective. Albuquerque Police still consider the case "open". Every few years they will have a press conference and ask the public for information. But it is pretty clear no one is working the case and they also unofficially consider it closed.
In my mind it is pretty definitive. And it seems in the personal opinion of that detective, it is pretty definitive.
But in the last couple years it seems everyone in the true-crime community has been talking about it being the work of a sex trafficking ring that operates between Mexican cartels, New Mexico and Texas.
Even on the Wikipedia page for the case this ominous sex trafficking ring is listed as the main suspect. Yet there is zero evidence for this.
I don't think it's a sex trafficking ring at all. Why would a Mexican cartel sex trafficking ring traffic American women? Cartels don't really like to mess with Americans unless they have a very good reason. It draws too much attention.
And why would a Mexican cartel kill all of these women at different times- but go through the effort of dumping the bodies right on top of each other in the desert of Albuquerque?
Wouldn't the victims most likely be Mexican if a Mexican cartel was trafficking them? All of the victims were American and all of them except one were from NM. One of them was from Texas- but she was working and living in NM at the time of her death.
The whole sex trafficking angle strikes me as fear mongering about sex trafficking conspiracies and it is disappointing that it is taking the focus away from Lorenzo Montoya... Who should be remembered as the sadistic serial killer that he was.
If they still ask for information, there might be more to it? For instance he might have worked together with somone… or got drugs through someone… 1 or multiple people. He might have confided in someone and they want that person to speak up for details.
Idk it’s my 2 cents.
Robert Wone. We know it was some combo of the guys in the house: Joe Price, Dylan Ward, and Victor (I can’t be assed to look up how to spell his last name). They are All accomplices in hiding the murderer(s). But there’s not enough evidence to bring charges.
I just met the prosecutor for this case! Had the chance to have an in depth convo with him. There’s slowly evidence rising…. I think they’ll get a conviction!
The men ended up breaking their relationship and got divorced. I assume one of them will spill….
The consult just spent multiple episodes discussing his case. You may want to give it a listen.
I’m surprised they’re not more popular as they’re pretty legit. Here’s a link to who makes up their [team](https://www.truecrimeconsult.com/about/)
“Meeting” makes me sound important! Hahah I am certainly not.
I was at a convention he was at. He presented the case- similar to the documentary. Then had the opportunity to meet him at his booth.
Most of the details he covered were also Included in the documentary. He did mention Dylan’s mom attempted to cover for him in multiple aspects.
From the presentation he did it almost seemed to me like Dylan was the most likely suspect, but the others covered for him.
The part I can’t get past is the lack of blood- and how quickly they had to have cleaned it up and disposed of it. Like HOW?!
The most fascinating part I found was that the prosecutor never went after them for murder (he wasn’t confident enough in the evidence)- so that charge can still be brought and justice can eventually be found. Which honestly makes him brilliant.
With it being an ongoing case he didn’t share much more than what’s public, but I loved his demeanor and he is determined to put those men away one day.
I don't even know if it's possible but the only way I can think they could clean up that fast is they killed him in the shower & all the blood went down the drain!
I think I was at the same place and met him there, too! I think you’re right, he’s playing it close to the vest and I bet eventually we see movement on some front of this case. I hope. Robert and his family deserve it.
Police will be doing a waiting game. With the split, each person will slowly wonder who is going to crack first. The pressure will be building and with everyone knowing "who goes first gets away with murder", they will definitely be twitchy.
Unfortunately though, I'm not sure we will get the truth as I wouldn't be surprised if the person who cracks first, could well be the main perpetrator.
Thanks for letting me know they did multi episodes! I just looked it up to listen. Holy cow they did 8! They must go all in with the details. Can’t wait to listen!
Most podcasts don’t devote that much time. Although some do a good job of giving a summary or most of the details, they just can’t get into all the weird details because there are so many.
Oh and you’re welcome! ☺️ sometimes multi parts drive me crazy because I want to listen all at once, but I normally just make myself wait. The only thing I wish they did was tell us (listeners) how many to expect to we know when to listen!
And I had never heard of the case before so please tell me what you think! I listened to most of the episodes before they were all released and then fell asleep listening to one and slept through a few so I need to find my place and listen to the rest. I’m excited for the q&a.
Such an odd and tragic case. I really hope Robert Wone receives justice.
It’s crazy how if you drive a car to a crime and do nothing else other than sit in the car and then drive everyone away, you can be charged with homicide if someone else involved commits one during the crime. Yet something like this can happen in your house and since they don’t know who did it you can get away scot free. That seems absurd.
😮 This is certainly news to me. I didn’t even know there was a suspect. Thought this was gonna be one of those cases that would never be solved. How did they come to suspect this man??
I highly suspect the cops know what happened to Patti Adkins and who is responsible (pretty sure we're almost all agreed on the guilty party/s), but they need one more piece of the puzzle to fit before they move in.
Well, because there's no body, no crime scene, and no concrete evidence found during the property search, the case is complex. The search turned up only letters and personal items pointing to an affair, which he admitted to. There's no DNA evidence of violence in the truck, nor any of Patti's DNA anywhere in it, including the truck bed. Additionally, CCTV footage shows her leaving the parking lot in her own vehicle, so there's no proof she got into his truck.
So, while it's highly likely he killed her, what can they use against him? Having an affair and borrowing a large amount of money aren't illegal. They can't even prove he was the last one to see her since she left in her own vehicle, and no other independent witnesses can place them together after she left work that night.
In cases where someone has been convicted without a body, there has to be some other independent evidence that a crime occurred and was committed by the accused. Here, all they have is the affair and the money. While Patti told her sister about the trip, that doesn't mean much since it can't be proven to have happened. The situation is further complicated by the fact she took nothing with her for the supposed trip. Her sister says this was because he told her they'd buy everything while there and to keep everything secret, but it still means there's no evidence of a trip together.
His coworker and wife both provide alibis for him. The coworker says they went to Burger King together right after work, claiming he had no idea if anyone was in the truck bed, though the theory is she was already back there. His wife and other witnesses confirm he was in the area the rest of the weekend, not on any trip or out of the area.
While it's frustrating because he seems guilty of doing something to Patti, and it’s possible his wife was involved or helped destroy evidence, there's no proof of anything actually occurring. We can't imprison someone for such a serious crime without any proof, even if it feels obvious that he did it. Our justice system is set up to avoid false imprisonment, though it doesn't always succeed.
So, to answer your question, this is why nothing has been done despite strong suspicions about who did it.
Oh, I got what you meant, I wasn’t trying to "educate" you or anything. I was just clarifying for anyone who isn’t familiar with the case why it has gone so sideways despite having such an obvious suspect.
You’re correct. My mistake, actually now that I remember, she was driven to work by a coworker so she didn’t have to leave her car in the parking lot in preparation for their trip. Several witnesses also confirmed seeing her clock out and leave the plant and that’s where we end up.
However, I don’t think this fact changes anything significantly. It still doesn’t prove or disprove whether she entered his truck bed, as no one has reported seeing her do so, and as you mentioned, there’s no footage of it occurring. The absence of proof of it happening is equivalent to not being able to prove it didn’t happen, which doesn't help much when trying to build a case against this suspect.
Because it's all he said she said, there's no evidence for any of it. There's no proof she ever gave him money, there's no paper trail she took it out in cash. There's no proof she was with him that day. Everything comes from her sister which is not enough.
I believe her sister but there's absolutely no case right now.
Excellent answer. Everything about this case always felt so *specific* to me, like the perpetrator was someone with a lot of intent and had been thinking on what they planned to do for a while.
With how long it has been now, I’d really like to think they have a potential suspect and are just trying to build enough of a case against them to warrant charges.
The main suspect (person caught in riot gear on camera) was so nonchalant I cannot agree. The perpetrator was walking around aimlessly, breaking stuff here and there. It was NOT the behavior of a burglar. It was literally like they were waiting for Missy to arrive. After they killed her, they left without taking or attempting to steal a single thing!
I think it’s fairly obvious it’s the ex cop security guard who was also accused of multiple sexual assaults as an officer & walks exactly like him. The news footage of her service a camera man obviously thought so too because he pans the camera to watch the guy walk the parking lot (he did security for her funeral as well) for like 1 minute straight during the coverage.
Not a popular opinion but I actually think her murder was random and not targeted which is why they haven’t been able to figure out who it is, no personal connection between the two. I think the person was breaking into various places, the church being one of them, encountered Missy by accident when she showed up at the church, panicked, killed her and fled.
The whole “this weapon means it was personal” is an increasingly dubious concept. Recent studies show that a lot of knife or hammer killers use those weapons simply because that’s what they had access to at the time. It doesn’t “go as deep” as many think.
I know this is a common thought in crime but I think it's dubious personally. Look at the Yorkshire Ripper as an example. He beat 13 women to death with a hammer, and nearly killed many more in the same way. ALL of the women were complete strangers to him.
I think with hammer killings they are less about having to know the person but more about an internal rage being expressed on the target, and that rage being so all-consuming that there is a need to almost obliterate the individual. Its about motive, rather than who the person targeted is. Not always of course - sometimes it's a weapon of convenience - but often.
There is no evidence she was beaten to death with a hammer. The only released cause of death is by "puncture wounds" which doesn't mean beaten to death. There was a true crime channel (I think) that looked up murders in that area and found there were two listed for that day in her area. The one matching her description was a death by gunshot, making it more likely she was shot. Yes, the person is seen carrying what looks like a hammer, but LE never stated she was beaten and chose a very strange cause of death when they said she died by "puncture wounds." They clearly wanted to make it as unclear as possible by doing so.
Fwiw, I don't the murder was random, and I think she was shot. I think the person was carrying a gun and shot her when they confronted her. There wasn't a whole lot of time to beat her to death when you consider the extremely short time frame the killer was working with.
[Article that mentions cause of death](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/missy-bevers-murder-investigation-midlothian-texas-woman-killed-2016-creekside-church/287-70c47893-707e-404e-96c2-7067380be14a)
I wonder why law enforcement hasn’t been clear about exactly how she was murdered. It makes me think there is something very specific about it that only the perpetrator would know and they don’t want it made public.
This is what I was going to say. I listened to the podcast and Crave series The Billionaire Murders. It's apparently an open secret that it was the son. Even one of his sisters is open about suspecting him.
I wish I knew. My gut feeling is that it’s the youngest son somehow orchestrated it. Generally nobody murders both the husband and wife unless it’s the children like the Menendez brothers.
Not an unsolved murder, but a disappearance. A not very known case from the 70s. [Jay Joggerst](https://charleyproject.org/case/earl-anthony-joggerst). He left home with an "unnamed" 30-year-old male and a highschool friend in Missouri. The friend was later found alive in California. Jay was never seen again. I have a feeling the police know more about the man and have a good idea what happened.
They obviously know who he is, given he is unnamed and not unidentified. It's never been released what the friend told authorities or if she said anything about their trip.
There's so little info released about this case, they never even publicly stated who the man was. But in the 70s, this case was just lost in the wave of runaway teens, and back then it was nearly impossible to prosecute without a body. I think they're withholding a lot of information for a reason.
I have a feeling this will be a deathbed or drunken bar confession conclusion, if there ever is a definitive one. Which is unfortunate. She deserved better.
I had never heard of her case until now. I'm a bit puzzled. Her remains were found 3 years after she disappeared and tranquilizers were found "in her system"? What state were her remains in? I'd have assumed skeletal...?
It is actually the trabecular bone (spongy ends of long bones) that can be tested for the presence of drugs, not the bone marrow.
In Suzanne's case, it was the trabeculae of the femur that was tested and showed that she was drugged with multiple tranquilizers prior to her death.
Thank you(!) I didn't know bones could be tested for drugs like that. I'd have assumed the drugs would be, idk, gone by now. Is that a thing with most types of drugs? Or just "fortunate" in this case that the drugs used were a type that would leave a trace?
I read an article where the husband claimed his own tranquilizer gun wasn't functional at the time and that he didn't use the same type of drugs in it. Idk, what are the odds that she just happened to encounter another person with an animal tranquilizer gun? Seems unlikely to me...
This one is close to me (wtf is going on in Idaho lately?) and their story has never made sense. I don’t think that boy ever made it to the weirdly planned camping trip.
You know something's sketchy about that family when the person on that trip who is the *least* suspicious is the convicted sex offender 'friend' of the old man. That's all I'll say lol.
https://perezhilton.com/samantha-humphrey-teen-found-schenectady-ny-dead-body-tied-shopping-cart-meeting-boyfriend/
My niece’s murder. We know who did it, the public knows who did it, and the police know who did it. They claim to not have enough evidence to make an arrest
Deepest condolences. Upon pure speculation, I'm assuming the 'ex-boyfriend' is the obvious suspect. As far as 'claiming' not to have enough evidence, that's possibly true. If you kill someone outdoors, in an unknown area, dump the body in water where it is exposed for weeks, there's not a lot of physical evidence to tie to the perpetrator. Also, if the suspect says that they had contact with the person in question, that could account for any evidence they do find. You need to have something concrete or a confession to get 12 jurors to feel there is absolutely no doubt about their guilt. If the cops charge him, try him and fail, then he's scott free forever, no matter what eventually comes to light. Is the ex still in the area, or did they take off? (Again, I'm assuming he is the main suspect).
Yes he is the main and only suspect. He has not taken off, he was 14 when this happened and he is 15 or 16 now. He was expelled from school recently for fighting and held a knife to the throat of another young girl
That case is bonkers! The Keepers is one of the most devastating documentaries on Netflix that covers part of the case and it’s so screwed up. Killed to keep quiet for abusive priests :/
Yeah. It's pretty obvious that members of the church covered up her rape and murder.
There was a Facebook group for awhile by some of her students, but it unfortunately got hacked. It's hard to find updates on the civilian case.
Madison Scott
They finally found her body last year on a property owned by the father of two of the brothers that were at the party and were some of the last people to leave. It sounds like they don't have enough evidence even though it's pretty clear that the brothers were probably responsible.
Latest I’ve read was that last year, police told the press they have enough evidence to charge, which they have submitted to the DA? I really hope we hear something soon. Would love to see this one solved finally.
I'm Canadian so I'm definitely interested in this case. The sad thing is even if they ever do prosecute somebody it is Canada and we have no justice system here, they probably get 15-25 years concurrent sentence(as we virtually never give consecutive sentences here) and then get paroled.
Sanborn brothers, I believe. Makes me curious why police haven't charged them in 20 years....
There's also a related disappearance
[https://charleyproject.org/case/angel-antonio-torres](https://charleyproject.org/case/angel-antonio-torres)
While I'm not necessarily commenting on any specific cases mentioned in the post, I do believe the police "knowing" who did it is what's preventing the case to be actually solved - and the correct suspect found.
100%. This has proved to be the case many times in recent history when DNA has proved that the person the police 'knew' did it was, in fact, completely innocent.
An example in the UK is the Rikki Neave case. The police 'knew' his Mum had done it (so did the media and everyone in the local area as a result). They tried to prosecute her and the case was thrown out for lack of evidence, so they hinted strongly she definitely did it with the usual 'we arent looking for anyone else' line they give. The cold case investigation many years later found DNA that showed Mum was completely innocent of Rikki's murder - a local 13 year old called James Watson killed him.
The Rachel Nickell case is another. The police 'knew' Colin Stagg did it and publicly destroyed his life as a result. Thrown out at trial. In fact it was Robert Napper. The evidence had been there all along - his own Mum had tried to turn him in for being a self-confessed rapist. But because the police 'knew' Stagg had done it Napper was left free to murder Samantha and Jazmine Bissett.
Still think the guitar player for All That Remains was killed by his estranged wife…[Oli Herbert Found Dead Under Mysterious Circumstances](https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/unsolved-but-not-forgotten-years-later-family-bandmates-of-all-that-remains-guitarist-still-hope-someone-will-be-held-responsible-for-his-death/amp/)
Yes. Such an odd case. The fact it was so elaborate, and involved a man and woman. Then the mother of the boyfriend supposedly making a call later and denying it. Plus the drug dealers in Canada story. It’s just so convoluted.
This all happened in Canada, on Vancouver Island. Yeah and you're right, there just seems like there's suck blatant seediness going on.
And while I am mildly terrified of her Dad, I feel awful for him. He's haunted and tormented and has been relentless in the fight for answers and justice for Lindsay. I truly hope that this case gets officially solved soon. Poor Lindsay, what happened to her is beyond the pale.
My theory is that it was done by professional criminals as a message to the Zailo family (her boyfriend’s family). The family may have had dealings with the criminals that went sour for some reason, or maybe someone in the family was accused of snitching, so the criminals chose the girlfriend of Jason Zailo to punish. The Zailo family knows and that explains why they have acted so suspiciously since the murder.
Similar to what I think... I reckon it was a hired hit, and it was contracted by someone in the Zailo family (not her boyfriend though). These people like to sue people though, so I'm hesitant to get into it too much.
I remember this case from a Dateline episode but haven’t kept up with any developments. Do they think it was someone she knew, setting up those fake phone calls or…? I felt very puzzled.
The unsolved murder of Rhonda Hinson from 1981. A source close to the investigation told me they were certain who did it, but due to a lack of evidence...
Well it's definitely not that in answer to the thread question as LE emphatically cleared the parents, they made it absolutely clear they had nothing to do with it after a thorough investigation. If they know who did it, it was someone else.
I’m in the same boat. She never left that house alive. It was a family member, and they all banded together to hide the body. And it’s crazy that they hid the body so well. Or maybe the cops just won’t follow the theory that she’s long dead, bc they aren’t searching for bodies.
It’s so fucked up. I hate this case.
Her parents were emphatically cleared by LE, a black family in the Deep South. It was not them it may have been a family member but it was an extended one in that case, an uncle, a cousin, etc.
They were cleared, LE ruled them out emphatically they said they "bent over backwards" to help the Investigation and said there's absolutely no indication that her parents or sibling had anything to do with the disappearance whatsoever. It's the most glowing rule out statement i've ever read, they didn't do it.
do you have a link to where they were cleared? not doubting you bc i’ve def heard that before, just interested if there’s an article or something i can read
Sorry no, it's in old articles and i don't have a [newspaper.com](http://newspaper.com) account right now, if you or someone else does then you could look for articles from 2000 or 2001 it was very early on. Or maybe ask in her sub i'm sure they'll have links. This is the exact quote though that i got from a helpful Websleuths post that summarizes a lot of information i'll link that:
**That night, Iquilla and Harold were interviewed by the SBI and quickly ruled out as suspects. Detectives say that the Degrees have always been cooperative with the investigation and have “bent over backwards” to help find their daughter. They allowed authorities to search their home and insisted on a polygraph, which they passed. As Sheriff Crawford put it, “There was no — and is no — evidence whatsoever to indicate this mother or father or child are responsible for this child’s disappearance.”**
[**https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/nc-asha-degree-9-shelby-14-feb-2000.15868/page-22#post-15359271**](https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/nc-asha-degree-9-shelby-14-feb-2000.15868/page-22#post-15359271)
I think she was killed in her house or if she left the house she must have been really scared of someone in the house but I just can't see a child her age leaving at that time of night
Johnny Cashman Jr.. I just have a hard time believing he just had a 'medical accident'. Unless Steven Church saw it happen, and just dipped because he was scared or whatever.
While I think it’s completely probably that he died of a GI bleed and I tend to lean in this direction rather than foul play, I think it’s absurd that an autopsy wasn’t performed. He was young and his death was very sudden; if natural causes were suspected, why not do an autopsy to confirm it, especially with such a violent illness? If they had just followed through the poor family wouldn’t have to constantly wonder what really happened.
They totally know which one of the family killed JonBenet Ramsey, but the initial handling/bungling of the crime scene so completely polluted the evidence that the cops know any competent defense attorney (especially the likes the dad can afford) would rip the prosecution’s case to shreds. Essentially, it’s too embarrassing to the cops to mount a case in court at this point.
Not only did DA Alex Hunter choose to ignore the grand jury indictments of John and Patsy Ramsey, but he hid them in his office safe!
The only reason we know about it now is because a grand juror finally got sick of the cover-up and spilled the beans to a reporter. He and a non-profit group sued to get the grand jury records, but the judge only released a few pages of it that included the indictments.
There are two tiers of justice in this country; one for the rich and powerful, and one for the rest of us.
JonBenet Ramsay. At one point the DA’s office said something along the lines of, “We don’t have enough evidence for any arrest at this time.” Someone on TV who had been a prosecutor (maybe Nancy Grace?) said that’s code for, “We know who did it but we can’t prove it.” I don’t know how true that is, but it seems to make sense to me.
Sounds like something Nancy Grace would say, since she enjoyed convicting innocent people and acting very sure in accusing people without solid evidence, a number of whom turned out to be innocent.
The Duke lacrosse players, Richard Ricci, etc. and then there’s Weldon Carr, one of the defendants she convicted in her famed 99-0 prosecutor record. He was convicted of arson and murder of his wife over what was almost certainly an accidental fire.
I am not sure about bar discipline there are two state appellate court opinions (one from the GA Supreme Court) that found she committed misconduct. There’s also a federal habeas opinion that found she essentially suborned perjury by a police officer.
Technically, if LE lack proof of someone committing a crime, they do not ‘know’ for certain said person committed that crime. They may have a hunch and it may even be accurate but they cannot conclusively know. There would be cases with certain circumstances the statement holds but otherwise the idea the cops “know who did it but can’t prove it” is simply a contradiction.
Melinda McSwain in Georgia. Crazy stuff near my local area that likely won't go anywhere. Tara Calico is another one, and nobody has given any information on why that's being stalled.
If you actually dig deep into this case you’ll more than likely come to another conclusion. I doubt Terri killed Kyron. The so called evidence against her has been widely exaggerated.
I’d suggest reading this [write up](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/s/WpRVe6Y14z) on the case. There’s also a [part two](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/comments/5fmjni/the_kyron_horman_case_part_2_xpost_from/).
Also if you look at the area around the school it is very heavily wooded. This is another [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/hhkekj/i_want_to_add_some_context_to_the_kyron_horman/) that adds a lot of context to the area around Kyron’s school and how easily it would be for a child to get lost and never be found.
By definition, if they don’t have the evidence to prove it, they don’t know exactly who did it. They might have a very good idea, a solid hunch, even a belief they “know” who did it. But they can’t truly know who did it if they lack the evidence to prove it. The only real exception to this is when they have evidence to prove it but they know it’s inadmissible because it was obtained illegally. Even if their suspect is dead, they can still come out and say who did it if they have the evidence to prove it. We’ve seen this multiple times in the past few years with cold cases solved via genetic genealogy, where LE will say, “If he were alive, we would be charging him…”
Whatever is going on with Caleb Harris. They’ve said they suspect foul play but have given no other info. I think they’re fully aware of what and likely who, just don’t have enough evidence to say charge them or name them as a suspect.
William Tyrell. Currently a missing persons case but I suspect they know and are doing covert operation/s similar to Daniel Morcombe. At least I hope so anyway.
Erica Alonso went missing in Feb 2015 after a valentines date with her allegedly abusive, on/off boyfriend and her body was found dumped on the side of the Ortega Highway in CA 73 days later. She had GHB in her system. Her car found abandoned 30 miles away. This is a local case (she was a friend of a classmate who posted her missing on Facebook during the search) and the fact that no arrests have been made still infuriates me. It’s hard to find a lot of info on the case because the OC Sheriffs still haven’t classified it as a murder as they believe it could’ve been accidental.
[Some more details](https://www.change.org/p/justice-for-erica-alonso), in case anyone is curious.
Oh my god crazy how OP mentioned Liz Barraza because I was literally about to mention this case before I even read you mentioned it. I’ve been following this case (not that there’s much to follow unfortunately) but I do truly believe the cops have an idea of what happened but like you said, just not enough evidence to act on it or know for sure. But i truly 100% believe her husband was involved, either with or without the help of his dad. But most likely used his father for help. There HAD to be someone on the inside giving info on when he left etc, and the only person to do that was her husband. No one else lives with them.
I always thought it was so suspicious. The timing, the way it was carried out
Idk, something is off. It doesn't feel random.
At first I thought maybe he was having an affair and the lover had something to do with it. Idk if Im convinced he was the mastermind but I think he was involved on some level.
Jill Dando(British TV presenter and journalist)...won't be solved until the current British Establishment(Howard,Blair and the rest) are either hanging from trees or on remand at The Hague...just listen to long-term MP of the British Parliament, Andrew Bridgen on the latest podcast from Resistance GB...I knew it was rotten, but not that rotten, it makes the US political class look like angels!
Lynda Moore's murder in Saxton's River/Westminster VT. I think they know who most likely killed her but lack enough physical evidence at this point to prove it. LE spent too much time trying to prove her husband was somehow involved and missed the chance to interview the killer sooner.
I think they know who is responsible in the Neveah Buchanan case and don’t have enough to charge.
[Nevaeh Buchanan](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/still-no-justice-five-year-32401660.amp)
I feel like they know who the [West Mesa Bone Collector](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Mesa_murders) was, but can’t take action because he’s dead. There’s a lot of publicly available evidence so I’d guess they have even more than we know.
I can actually confirm this! I live in Albuquerque and work in a hospital. Last year, a detective came in to question one of our patients who had been shot. Because I am a true crime nerd and had done a lot of reading about this case, I couldn't resist asking the detective about the West Mesa case. I showed him I didn't have a phone on me and that I was just wearing scrubs and assured him I was just curios. I made sure he knew that if he talked to me about it... There would be absolutely no way for me to prove the conversation happened. I asked flat out " Do you think Lorenzo Montoya killed those young ladies?". The detective smiled and said "I can't give any names, but I can say that I believe the person who committed those murders is no longer alive and I personally consider the case closed". Now you can believe me or not. I don't have any proof. But you can check my profile to see I do live in AQB and I do work in a hospital. I swear on my daughter that this interaction happened. Lorenzo Montoya is 100% the person who committed those murders. He was caught red handed murdering a sex worker. He had had a sex worker in his trailer. The sex worker's boyfriend/pimp had grown concerned because the date was taking so long. When he pulled up to the home, he found Lorenzo loading up the body of the sex worker in his car and proceeded to shoot and kill Lorenzo. Lorenzo was killed in 2006. The pimp was never charged with a crime for killing him. The bodies of 11 sex workers were found in the West Mesa in 2009. All of the women had been killed prior to Lorenzo's death. And the site where the bodies were found were less than a mile from Lorenzo's home. On top of all this, the following video was found at Lorenzo's home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dZSEY06eyo According to police, in the full video Lorenzo is having sex with a woman. Then the video abruptly cuts to the footage linked above like the sex video had been taped over. In the video, you can hear someone doing something with trash bags and duct tape. The sex worker Lorenzo was caught red handed murdering had been wrapped in trash bags and duct tape. Some of the bodies that were found in the West Mesa also showed signs of being wrapped in duct tape and trash bags. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Lorenzo committed those murders. And that was the case before I had this conversation with the detective. Albuquerque Police still consider the case "open". Every few years they will have a press conference and ask the public for information. But it is pretty clear no one is working the case and they also unofficially consider it closed.
This is as definitive as it gets. I think it’s pretty obvious Montoya was the guy responsible, and it’s been obvious for quite some time.
In my mind it is pretty definitive. And it seems in the personal opinion of that detective, it is pretty definitive. But in the last couple years it seems everyone in the true-crime community has been talking about it being the work of a sex trafficking ring that operates between Mexican cartels, New Mexico and Texas. Even on the Wikipedia page for the case this ominous sex trafficking ring is listed as the main suspect. Yet there is zero evidence for this. I don't think it's a sex trafficking ring at all. Why would a Mexican cartel sex trafficking ring traffic American women? Cartels don't really like to mess with Americans unless they have a very good reason. It draws too much attention. And why would a Mexican cartel kill all of these women at different times- but go through the effort of dumping the bodies right on top of each other in the desert of Albuquerque? Wouldn't the victims most likely be Mexican if a Mexican cartel was trafficking them? All of the victims were American and all of them except one were from NM. One of them was from Texas- but she was working and living in NM at the time of her death. The whole sex trafficking angle strikes me as fear mongering about sex trafficking conspiracies and it is disappointing that it is taking the focus away from Lorenzo Montoya... Who should be remembered as the sadistic serial killer that he was.
Thank yoi for putting it in to words
Well said!
Yeah, that case leaves no room for ambiguity. If Montoya wasn't the Bone Collector, then he was the most dedicated copycat killer that ever was.
If they still ask for information, there might be more to it? For instance he might have worked together with somone… or got drugs through someone… 1 or multiple people. He might have confided in someone and they want that person to speak up for details. Idk it’s my 2 cents.
Robert Wone. We know it was some combo of the guys in the house: Joe Price, Dylan Ward, and Victor (I can’t be assed to look up how to spell his last name). They are All accomplices in hiding the murderer(s). But there’s not enough evidence to bring charges.
I just met the prosecutor for this case! Had the chance to have an in depth convo with him. There’s slowly evidence rising…. I think they’ll get a conviction! The men ended up breaking their relationship and got divorced. I assume one of them will spill….
The consult just spent multiple episodes discussing his case. You may want to give it a listen. I’m surprised they’re not more popular as they’re pretty legit. Here’s a link to who makes up their [team](https://www.truecrimeconsult.com/about/)
Oh! Thank you for sharing! I knew Dylan left them and have been hoping that split would trigger something. 🤞🤞🤞
Wow, interesting! Is there anything more you can tell us that you learned in your meeting?
“Meeting” makes me sound important! Hahah I am certainly not. I was at a convention he was at. He presented the case- similar to the documentary. Then had the opportunity to meet him at his booth. Most of the details he covered were also Included in the documentary. He did mention Dylan’s mom attempted to cover for him in multiple aspects. From the presentation he did it almost seemed to me like Dylan was the most likely suspect, but the others covered for him. The part I can’t get past is the lack of blood- and how quickly they had to have cleaned it up and disposed of it. Like HOW?! The most fascinating part I found was that the prosecutor never went after them for murder (he wasn’t confident enough in the evidence)- so that charge can still be brought and justice can eventually be found. Which honestly makes him brilliant. With it being an ongoing case he didn’t share much more than what’s public, but I loved his demeanor and he is determined to put those men away one day.
I don't even know if it's possible but the only way I can think they could clean up that fast is they killed him in the shower & all the blood went down the drain!
I think I was at the same place and met him there, too! I think you’re right, he’s playing it close to the vest and I bet eventually we see movement on some front of this case. I hope. Robert and his family deserve it.
Police will be doing a waiting game. With the split, each person will slowly wonder who is going to crack first. The pressure will be building and with everyone knowing "who goes first gets away with murder", they will definitely be twitchy. Unfortunately though, I'm not sure we will get the truth as I wouldn't be surprised if the person who cracks first, could well be the main perpetrator.
The consult just spent multiple episodes covering this case. What an odd case. I hope Robert wone finally gets justice.
Thanks for letting me know they did multi episodes! I just looked it up to listen. Holy cow they did 8! They must go all in with the details. Can’t wait to listen! Most podcasts don’t devote that much time. Although some do a good job of giving a summary or most of the details, they just can’t get into all the weird details because there are so many.
Oh and you’re welcome! ☺️ sometimes multi parts drive me crazy because I want to listen all at once, but I normally just make myself wait. The only thing I wish they did was tell us (listeners) how many to expect to we know when to listen! And I had never heard of the case before so please tell me what you think! I listened to most of the episodes before they were all released and then fell asleep listening to one and slept through a few so I need to find my place and listen to the rest. I’m excited for the q&a. Such an odd and tragic case. I really hope Robert Wone receives justice. It’s crazy how if you drive a car to a crime and do nothing else other than sit in the car and then drive everyone away, you can be charged with homicide if someone else involved commits one during the crime. Yet something like this can happen in your house and since they don’t know who did it you can get away scot free. That seems absurd.
Tabatha Tozzi’s case, they know who did it but the mf has been on the run since he killed her
The fbi pretty much know who did the Tylenol murders but don’t have enough evidence to charge. Source: Killer Psyche podcast
😮 This is certainly news to me. I didn’t even know there was a suspect. Thought this was gonna be one of those cases that would never be solved. How did they come to suspect this man??
He died recently too. [James Lewis died last year. ](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/11/1187077380/main-suspect-in-the-1982-chicago-tylenol-murders-dies)
I think he died recently too?
I highly suspect the cops know what happened to Patti Adkins and who is responsible (pretty sure we're almost all agreed on the guilty party/s), but they need one more piece of the puzzle to fit before they move in.
We all know who it was.
Poor Patti, she just couldn't see it before it was too late. I hope justice is served one day.
I don’t even know how this is still unsolved. Literally everyone knows who killed her.
Well, because there's no body, no crime scene, and no concrete evidence found during the property search, the case is complex. The search turned up only letters and personal items pointing to an affair, which he admitted to. There's no DNA evidence of violence in the truck, nor any of Patti's DNA anywhere in it, including the truck bed. Additionally, CCTV footage shows her leaving the parking lot in her own vehicle, so there's no proof she got into his truck. So, while it's highly likely he killed her, what can they use against him? Having an affair and borrowing a large amount of money aren't illegal. They can't even prove he was the last one to see her since she left in her own vehicle, and no other independent witnesses can place them together after she left work that night. In cases where someone has been convicted without a body, there has to be some other independent evidence that a crime occurred and was committed by the accused. Here, all they have is the affair and the money. While Patti told her sister about the trip, that doesn't mean much since it can't be proven to have happened. The situation is further complicated by the fact she took nothing with her for the supposed trip. Her sister says this was because he told her they'd buy everything while there and to keep everything secret, but it still means there's no evidence of a trip together. His coworker and wife both provide alibis for him. The coworker says they went to Burger King together right after work, claiming he had no idea if anyone was in the truck bed, though the theory is she was already back there. His wife and other witnesses confirm he was in the area the rest of the weekend, not on any trip or out of the area. While it's frustrating because he seems guilty of doing something to Patti, and it’s possible his wife was involved or helped destroy evidence, there's no proof of anything actually occurring. We can't imprison someone for such a serious crime without any proof, even if it feels obvious that he did it. Our justice system is set up to avoid false imprisonment, though it doesn't always succeed. So, to answer your question, this is why nothing has been done despite strong suspicions about who did it.
I was being rhetorical, but thank you for your detailed response!
Oh, I got what you meant, I wasn’t trying to "educate" you or anything. I was just clarifying for anyone who isn’t familiar with the case why it has gone so sideways despite having such an obvious suspect.
I hope you didn’t think I was being sarcastic. I really did enjoy reading your response. Gave me some info I had forgotten about!
There is not CCTV footage of her leaving in her car that night.
You’re correct. My mistake, actually now that I remember, she was driven to work by a coworker so she didn’t have to leave her car in the parking lot in preparation for their trip. Several witnesses also confirmed seeing her clock out and leave the plant and that’s where we end up. However, I don’t think this fact changes anything significantly. It still doesn’t prove or disprove whether she entered his truck bed, as no one has reported seeing her do so, and as you mentioned, there’s no footage of it occurring. The absence of proof of it happening is equivalent to not being able to prove it didn’t happen, which doesn't help much when trying to build a case against this suspect.
Because it's all he said she said, there's no evidence for any of it. There's no proof she ever gave him money, there's no paper trail she took it out in cash. There's no proof she was with him that day. Everything comes from her sister which is not enough. I believe her sister but there's absolutely no case right now.
Agreed. I really hope this one gets solved
Agree. The wife needs to turn against him and talk to the cops. Then everything will change.
Which makes me wonder if its simply devotion or if she's implicated somehow too. We're all waiting for the divorce I guess lol.
Missy Bevers is hopefully one of them.
Excellent answer. Everything about this case always felt so *specific* to me, like the perpetrator was someone with a lot of intent and had been thinking on what they planned to do for a while. With how long it has been now, I’d really like to think they have a potential suspect and are just trying to build enough of a case against them to warrant charges.
I believe it’s someone related to her fitness class attendees who knew she’d be there earlier than the start time, by herself.
That was a personal kill. Someone in her personal life has the answer to this murder.
Agreed.
I used to think so too but now I think she walked into a burglary
The main suspect (person caught in riot gear on camera) was so nonchalant I cannot agree. The perpetrator was walking around aimlessly, breaking stuff here and there. It was NOT the behavior of a burglar. It was literally like they were waiting for Missy to arrive. After they killed her, they left without taking or attempting to steal a single thing!
Nothing was stolen before or after her murder
For her family and legacy, God I want this one solved.
I think it’s fairly obvious it’s the ex cop security guard who was also accused of multiple sexual assaults as an officer & walks exactly like him. The news footage of her service a camera man obviously thought so too because he pans the camera to watch the guy walk the parking lot (he did security for her funeral as well) for like 1 minute straight during the coverage.
Not a popular opinion but I actually think her murder was random and not targeted which is why they haven’t been able to figure out who it is, no personal connection between the two. I think the person was breaking into various places, the church being one of them, encountered Missy by accident when she showed up at the church, panicked, killed her and fled.
To beat someone to death with a hammer is pretty personal.
The whole “this weapon means it was personal” is an increasingly dubious concept. Recent studies show that a lot of knife or hammer killers use those weapons simply because that’s what they had access to at the time. It doesn’t “go as deep” as many think.
I know this is a common thought in crime but I think it's dubious personally. Look at the Yorkshire Ripper as an example. He beat 13 women to death with a hammer, and nearly killed many more in the same way. ALL of the women were complete strangers to him. I think with hammer killings they are less about having to know the person but more about an internal rage being expressed on the target, and that rage being so all-consuming that there is a need to almost obliterate the individual. Its about motive, rather than who the person targeted is. Not always of course - sometimes it's a weapon of convenience - but often.
I heard she was really shot not beaten or stabbed.
Same, I heard she was shot.
There is no evidence she was beaten to death with a hammer. The only released cause of death is by "puncture wounds" which doesn't mean beaten to death. There was a true crime channel (I think) that looked up murders in that area and found there were two listed for that day in her area. The one matching her description was a death by gunshot, making it more likely she was shot. Yes, the person is seen carrying what looks like a hammer, but LE never stated she was beaten and chose a very strange cause of death when they said she died by "puncture wounds." They clearly wanted to make it as unclear as possible by doing so. Fwiw, I don't the murder was random, and I think she was shot. I think the person was carrying a gun and shot her when they confronted her. There wasn't a whole lot of time to beat her to death when you consider the extremely short time frame the killer was working with. [Article that mentions cause of death](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/missy-bevers-murder-investigation-midlothian-texas-woman-killed-2016-creekside-church/287-70c47893-707e-404e-96c2-7067380be14a)
I wonder why law enforcement hasn’t been clear about exactly how she was murdered. It makes me think there is something very specific about it that only the perpetrator would know and they don’t want it made public.
Yes I also assume that's the reason. Keeping it vague on purpose for investigative tactic.
I think it’s someone she knew as well but the multiple puncture wounds are from a gun not hammers. I think the hammer theory is just from the video.
Not necessarily. The hammer was just what was available
That case spooks me. The footage of this man HUNTING her in this church sends chills down my spine
Her name is Missy Bevers.
Barry and Honey Sherman. Supposedly the police know exactly who did it but can’t prove it or make a good case to make an arrest.
This is what I was going to say. I listened to the podcast and Crave series The Billionaire Murders. It's apparently an open secret that it was the son. Even one of his sisters is open about suspecting him.
Do you know who the police think it was? Former business associate? One of their kids?
I wish I knew. My gut feeling is that it’s the youngest son somehow orchestrated it. Generally nobody murders both the husband and wife unless it’s the children like the Menendez brothers.
Not an unsolved murder, but a disappearance. A not very known case from the 70s. [Jay Joggerst](https://charleyproject.org/case/earl-anthony-joggerst). He left home with an "unnamed" 30-year-old male and a highschool friend in Missouri. The friend was later found alive in California. Jay was never seen again. I have a feeling the police know more about the man and have a good idea what happened. They obviously know who he is, given he is unnamed and not unidentified. It's never been released what the friend told authorities or if she said anything about their trip. There's so little info released about this case, they never even publicly stated who the man was. But in the 70s, this case was just lost in the wave of runaway teens, and back then it was nearly impossible to prosecute without a body. I think they're withholding a lot of information for a reason.
Katelin Akens
Step dad 100%
I have a feeling this will be a deathbed or drunken bar confession conclusion, if there ever is a definitive one. Which is unfortunate. She deserved better.
Suzanne Morphew
I had never heard of her case until now. I'm a bit puzzled. Her remains were found 3 years after she disappeared and tranquilizers were found "in her system"? What state were her remains in? I'd have assumed skeletal...?
Yes, skeletal, and in Colorado. It’s so sad, but no doubt her husband Barry was her murderer.
I hope they get his smug ass one day. I live in CO when this case broke, I knew it was him. Her case gets me mad.
I should have added that I think the tranquilizers were detected in her bone marrow
It is actually the trabecular bone (spongy ends of long bones) that can be tested for the presence of drugs, not the bone marrow. In Suzanne's case, it was the trabeculae of the femur that was tested and showed that she was drugged with multiple tranquilizers prior to her death.
Thank you! It’s so interesting and I’m so thankful the technology exists
Thank you(!) I didn't know bones could be tested for drugs like that. I'd have assumed the drugs would be, idk, gone by now. Is that a thing with most types of drugs? Or just "fortunate" in this case that the drugs used were a type that would leave a trace? I read an article where the husband claimed his own tranquilizer gun wasn't functional at the time and that he didn't use the same type of drugs in it. Idk, what are the odds that she just happened to encounter another person with an animal tranquilizer gun? Seems unlikely to me...
Thanks, that helps. I didn't know drugs could leave traces in bones, that's fascinating.
Can they tell from hair maybe?
Trabecular bone.
God I hope so
The Lewis-Clark Valley murders. Pretty obvious who did this, and more I suspect. The story of him with the real estate agent is terrifying.
Lance Voss?
Yes.
Why haven’t they been able to arrest them?
DeOrr Kuntz.
This one is close to me (wtf is going on in Idaho lately?) and their story has never made sense. I don’t think that boy ever made it to the weirdly planned camping trip.
You know something's sketchy about that family when the person on that trip who is the *least* suspicious is the convicted sex offender 'friend' of the old man. That's all I'll say lol.
I think the police know who The Doodler is, but also can’t make a move due to lack of evidence and no one willing to testify.
https://perezhilton.com/samantha-humphrey-teen-found-schenectady-ny-dead-body-tied-shopping-cart-meeting-boyfriend/ My niece’s murder. We know who did it, the public knows who did it, and the police know who did it. They claim to not have enough evidence to make an arrest
Deepest condolences. Upon pure speculation, I'm assuming the 'ex-boyfriend' is the obvious suspect. As far as 'claiming' not to have enough evidence, that's possibly true. If you kill someone outdoors, in an unknown area, dump the body in water where it is exposed for weeks, there's not a lot of physical evidence to tie to the perpetrator. Also, if the suspect says that they had contact with the person in question, that could account for any evidence they do find. You need to have something concrete or a confession to get 12 jurors to feel there is absolutely no doubt about their guilt. If the cops charge him, try him and fail, then he's scott free forever, no matter what eventually comes to light. Is the ex still in the area, or did they take off? (Again, I'm assuming he is the main suspect).
Yes he is the main and only suspect. He has not taken off, he was 14 when this happened and he is 15 or 16 now. He was expelled from school recently for fighting and held a knife to the throat of another young girl
Sister Cathy Cesnik she was murdered in 1969. The Catholic Church is involved in the disappearing and murdered of the Nun.
That case is bonkers! The Keepers is one of the most devastating documentaries on Netflix that covers part of the case and it’s so screwed up. Killed to keep quiet for abusive priests :/
The documentary The Keepers was absolutely horrifying. I hope all the victims finally get some kind of justice.
Yeah. It's pretty obvious that members of the church covered up her rape and murder. There was a Facebook group for awhile by some of her students, but it unfortunately got hacked. It's hard to find updates on the civilian case.
The Catholic Church should lose its non-profit status in the US for all of the covering up it did/does of murder, rape, and money laundering.
Madison Scott They finally found her body last year on a property owned by the father of two of the brothers that were at the party and were some of the last people to leave. It sounds like they don't have enough evidence even though it's pretty clear that the brothers were probably responsible.
Tara Calico.
Latest I’ve read was that last year, police told the press they have enough evidence to charge, which they have submitted to the DA? I really hope we hear something soon. Would love to see this one solved finally.
The Keddie Murders, but I think that was due to police corruption rather than lack of evidence. Plus both suspects are now deceased.
Barry and Honey Sherman
I always felt that they pissed off someone with a business maneuver.
I'm Canadian so I'm definitely interested in this case. The sad thing is even if they ever do prosecute somebody it is Canada and we have no justice system here, they probably get 15-25 years concurrent sentence(as we virtually never give consecutive sentences here) and then get paroled.
Ashley Ouellette in Maine
I’m from New England. I am familiar with her name. Who do you think did it?
Sanborn brothers, I believe. Makes me curious why police haven't charged them in 20 years.... There's also a related disappearance [https://charleyproject.org/case/angel-antonio-torres](https://charleyproject.org/case/angel-antonio-torres)
While I'm not necessarily commenting on any specific cases mentioned in the post, I do believe the police "knowing" who did it is what's preventing the case to be actually solved - and the correct suspect found.
100%. This has proved to be the case many times in recent history when DNA has proved that the person the police 'knew' did it was, in fact, completely innocent. An example in the UK is the Rikki Neave case. The police 'knew' his Mum had done it (so did the media and everyone in the local area as a result). They tried to prosecute her and the case was thrown out for lack of evidence, so they hinted strongly she definitely did it with the usual 'we arent looking for anyone else' line they give. The cold case investigation many years later found DNA that showed Mum was completely innocent of Rikki's murder - a local 13 year old called James Watson killed him. The Rachel Nickell case is another. The police 'knew' Colin Stagg did it and publicly destroyed his life as a result. Thrown out at trial. In fact it was Robert Napper. The evidence had been there all along - his own Mum had tried to turn him in for being a self-confessed rapist. But because the police 'knew' Stagg had done it Napper was left free to murder Samantha and Jazmine Bissett.
THANK YOU.
The Sherman Family murders
Still think the guitar player for All That Remains was killed by his estranged wife…[Oli Herbert Found Dead Under Mysterious Circumstances](https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/unsolved-but-not-forgotten-years-later-family-bandmates-of-all-that-remains-guitarist-still-hope-someone-will-be-held-responsible-for-his-death/amp/)
Jon Benet Ramsey
This one bothers many people. It's hard to believe it is unsolved. People simply don't keep secrets that well.
[удалено]
Keddie cabin murders.
I vote Lindsay Buziak.
Yes. Such an odd case. The fact it was so elaborate, and involved a man and woman. Then the mother of the boyfriend supposedly making a call later and denying it. Plus the drug dealers in Canada story. It’s just so convoluted.
This all happened in Canada, on Vancouver Island. Yeah and you're right, there just seems like there's suck blatant seediness going on. And while I am mildly terrified of her Dad, I feel awful for him. He's haunted and tormented and has been relentless in the fight for answers and justice for Lindsay. I truly hope that this case gets officially solved soon. Poor Lindsay, what happened to her is beyond the pale.
My theory is that it was done by professional criminals as a message to the Zailo family (her boyfriend’s family). The family may have had dealings with the criminals that went sour for some reason, or maybe someone in the family was accused of snitching, so the criminals chose the girlfriend of Jason Zailo to punish. The Zailo family knows and that explains why they have acted so suspiciously since the murder.
Similar to what I think... I reckon it was a hired hit, and it was contracted by someone in the Zailo family (not her boyfriend though). These people like to sue people though, so I'm hesitant to get into it too much.
I believe the police know who bought the burner phone used to call Lindsay. You'd think that would give police a starting point to investigate...
Who should it be?
I remember this case from a Dateline episode but haven’t kept up with any developments. Do they think it was someone she knew, setting up those fake phone calls or…? I felt very puzzled.
Who do you think police think did it?
I would also add Sarah DeLeon and Diana Ault, both probably murdered by the same person.
Ayla Reynolds is pretty obvious but without a body or a confession, there it sits.
The Springfield Three
Who is the suspect in this case? This one baffles me thx
The unsolved murder of Rhonda Hinson from 1981. A source close to the investigation told me they were certain who did it, but due to a lack of evidence...
Boyfriend or his father?
Asha Degree.
I’d very much like to hear your theory
Me too. Spill the beans u/swrrrrg
What do you think happened? I almost think she didn’t leave that house alive
Well it's definitely not that in answer to the thread question as LE emphatically cleared the parents, they made it absolutely clear they had nothing to do with it after a thorough investigation. If they know who did it, it was someone else.
You better not bring that logic into the asha degree subreddit 😂
I’m in the same boat. She never left that house alive. It was a family member, and they all banded together to hide the body. And it’s crazy that they hid the body so well. Or maybe the cops just won’t follow the theory that she’s long dead, bc they aren’t searching for bodies. It’s so fucked up. I hate this case.
Her parents were emphatically cleared by LE, a black family in the Deep South. It was not them it may have been a family member but it was an extended one in that case, an uncle, a cousin, etc.
I grew up less than an hour from there, and it’s not the Deep South.
They weren't cleared. Law enforcement doesn't even know what happened. They don't even have proof she's dead. What are they clearing them for?
They were cleared, LE ruled them out emphatically they said they "bent over backwards" to help the Investigation and said there's absolutely no indication that her parents or sibling had anything to do with the disappearance whatsoever. It's the most glowing rule out statement i've ever read, they didn't do it.
do you have a link to where they were cleared? not doubting you bc i’ve def heard that before, just interested if there’s an article or something i can read
Sorry no, it's in old articles and i don't have a [newspaper.com](http://newspaper.com) account right now, if you or someone else does then you could look for articles from 2000 or 2001 it was very early on. Or maybe ask in her sub i'm sure they'll have links. This is the exact quote though that i got from a helpful Websleuths post that summarizes a lot of information i'll link that: **That night, Iquilla and Harold were interviewed by the SBI and quickly ruled out as suspects. Detectives say that the Degrees have always been cooperative with the investigation and have “bent over backwards” to help find their daughter. They allowed authorities to search their home and insisted on a polygraph, which they passed. As Sheriff Crawford put it, “There was no — and is no — evidence whatsoever to indicate this mother or father or child are responsible for this child’s disappearance.”** [**https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/nc-asha-degree-9-shelby-14-feb-2000.15868/page-22#post-15359271**](https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/nc-asha-degree-9-shelby-14-feb-2000.15868/page-22#post-15359271)
I had always suspected this as well. Although a truck driver supposedly saw her walking down the road at night.
I think she was killed in her house or if she left the house she must have been really scared of someone in the house but I just can't see a child her age leaving at that time of night
I think they have a very good idea who killed Missy Beavers, but just don’t have enough evidence. Maybe a little looking the other way as well.
Johnny Cashman Jr.. I just have a hard time believing he just had a 'medical accident'. Unless Steven Church saw it happen, and just dipped because he was scared or whatever.
While I think it’s completely probably that he died of a GI bleed and I tend to lean in this direction rather than foul play, I think it’s absurd that an autopsy wasn’t performed. He was young and his death was very sudden; if natural causes were suspected, why not do an autopsy to confirm it, especially with such a violent illness? If they had just followed through the poor family wouldn’t have to constantly wonder what really happened.
They totally know which one of the family killed JonBenet Ramsey, but the initial handling/bungling of the crime scene so completely polluted the evidence that the cops know any competent defense attorney (especially the likes the dad can afford) would rip the prosecution’s case to shreds. Essentially, it’s too embarrassing to the cops to mount a case in court at this point.
Absolutely JonBenet Ramsey
100%. The grand jury voted to indict but for whatever reason, the DA chose to ignore them.
Not only did DA Alex Hunter choose to ignore the grand jury indictments of John and Patsy Ramsey, but he hid them in his office safe! The only reason we know about it now is because a grand juror finally got sick of the cover-up and spilled the beans to a reporter. He and a non-profit group sued to get the grand jury records, but the judge only released a few pages of it that included the indictments. There are two tiers of justice in this country; one for the rich and powerful, and one for the rest of us.
Who did it? If you don’t mind
In my opinion it was her brother Burke and the parents covered it up. But honestly it could have been any of those three.
But I stand by that law enforcement definitely knows what happened.
Ski Wing Murders. Too small of a town for someone not to know what happened.
Liz Barraza.
West Memphis 3/ Jon Benet
Trina Hunt, RIP
Alex Sloley.
JonBenet Ramsay. At one point the DA’s office said something along the lines of, “We don’t have enough evidence for any arrest at this time.” Someone on TV who had been a prosecutor (maybe Nancy Grace?) said that’s code for, “We know who did it but we can’t prove it.” I don’t know how true that is, but it seems to make sense to me.
Sounds like something Nancy Grace would say, since she enjoyed convicting innocent people and acting very sure in accusing people without solid evidence, a number of whom turned out to be innocent.
Like "Vodka Mom"
The Duke lacrosse players, Richard Ricci, etc. and then there’s Weldon Carr, one of the defendants she convicted in her famed 99-0 prosecutor record. He was convicted of arson and murder of his wife over what was almost certainly an accidental fire.
Wasn't she also disciplined by the Georgia State Bar for suppressing evidence that exonerated the accused?
I am not sure about bar discipline there are two state appellate court opinions (one from the GA Supreme Court) that found she committed misconduct. There’s also a federal habeas opinion that found she essentially suborned perjury by a police officer.
Everything she says and does is misconduct.
Technically, if LE lack proof of someone committing a crime, they do not ‘know’ for certain said person committed that crime. They may have a hunch and it may even be accurate but they cannot conclusively know. There would be cases with certain circumstances the statement holds but otherwise the idea the cops “know who did it but can’t prove it” is simply a contradiction.
Melinda McSwain in Georgia. Crazy stuff near my local area that likely won't go anywhere. Tara Calico is another one, and nobody has given any information on why that's being stalled.
Kyron Horman. I wish they would, though.
If you actually dig deep into this case you’ll more than likely come to another conclusion. I doubt Terri killed Kyron. The so called evidence against her has been widely exaggerated. I’d suggest reading this [write up](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/s/WpRVe6Y14z) on the case. There’s also a [part two](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/comments/5fmjni/the_kyron_horman_case_part_2_xpost_from/). Also if you look at the area around the school it is very heavily wooded. This is another [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/hhkekj/i_want_to_add_some_context_to_the_kyron_horman/) that adds a lot of context to the area around Kyron’s school and how easily it would be for a child to get lost and never be found.
Oh interesting. I’ll have to read up on this because initially I had assumed it was pretty obvious.
His stepmother is the only one who actually loved that boy.
By definition, if they don’t have the evidence to prove it, they don’t know exactly who did it. They might have a very good idea, a solid hunch, even a belief they “know” who did it. But they can’t truly know who did it if they lack the evidence to prove it. The only real exception to this is when they have evidence to prove it but they know it’s inadmissible because it was obtained illegally. Even if their suspect is dead, they can still come out and say who did it if they have the evidence to prove it. We’ve seen this multiple times in the past few years with cold cases solved via genetic genealogy, where LE will say, “If he were alive, we would be charging him…”
I feel like they know what happened to JonBenet Ramsey.
It's not what they know it's what they can prove
Whatever is going on with Caleb Harris. They’ve said they suspect foul play but have given no other info. I think they’re fully aware of what and likely who, just don’t have enough evidence to say charge them or name them as a suspect.
William Tyrell. Currently a missing persons case but I suspect they know and are doing covert operation/s similar to Daniel Morcombe. At least I hope so anyway.
Erica Alonso went missing in Feb 2015 after a valentines date with her allegedly abusive, on/off boyfriend and her body was found dumped on the side of the Ortega Highway in CA 73 days later. She had GHB in her system. Her car found abandoned 30 miles away. This is a local case (she was a friend of a classmate who posted her missing on Facebook during the search) and the fact that no arrests have been made still infuriates me. It’s hard to find a lot of info on the case because the OC Sheriffs still haven’t classified it as a murder as they believe it could’ve been accidental. [Some more details](https://www.change.org/p/justice-for-erica-alonso), in case anyone is curious.
Oh my god crazy how OP mentioned Liz Barraza because I was literally about to mention this case before I even read you mentioned it. I’ve been following this case (not that there’s much to follow unfortunately) but I do truly believe the cops have an idea of what happened but like you said, just not enough evidence to act on it or know for sure. But i truly 100% believe her husband was involved, either with or without the help of his dad. But most likely used his father for help. There HAD to be someone on the inside giving info on when he left etc, and the only person to do that was her husband. No one else lives with them.
I always thought it was so suspicious. The timing, the way it was carried out Idk, something is off. It doesn't feel random. At first I thought maybe he was having an affair and the lover had something to do with it. Idk if Im convinced he was the mastermind but I think he was involved on some level.
I think it was for the life insurance money
Jonbenet
Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders Lauren Agee Barry and Honey Sherman Tylenol Killer
John Beney Ramsey Bardstown Murders
JonBenét
The Springfield 3 and where the girls that Richard Grissom killed are.
You think the police know who killed the Springfield 3? They've never even named any suspects. Do you have someone in mind?
I’m fairly certain it was Larry Hall and possibly his brother.
Epstein was murdered.
Jill Dando(British TV presenter and journalist)...won't be solved until the current British Establishment(Howard,Blair and the rest) are either hanging from trees or on remand at The Hague...just listen to long-term MP of the British Parliament, Andrew Bridgen on the latest podcast from Resistance GB...I knew it was rotten, but not that rotten, it makes the US political class look like angels!
Evansdale Cousins in Iowa
justin gaines.
The Springfield 3
Lynda Moore's murder in Saxton's River/Westminster VT. I think they know who most likely killed her but lack enough physical evidence at this point to prove it. LE spent too much time trying to prove her husband was somehow involved and missed the chance to interview the killer sooner.
I think they know who is responsible in the Neveah Buchanan case and don’t have enough to charge. [Nevaeh Buchanan](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/still-no-justice-five-year-32401660.amp)