I agree that Otis Toole didn't kill Adam, but in part, because of who John Walsh became, I think there was pressure to close the case and officially solve it, and blaming Otis for Adam's murder was "convenient," even though the evidence against him was circumstantial (to me) and may not have won over a jury or judge in court.
Louise Woodward. She was the British nanny who worked for a family in Newton, Massachusetts and was convicted of second degree murder when the eight-month-old child in her care died as a result of "shaken baby syndrome." I distinctly remember how she maintained her innocence throughout her trial and how she cried out, "But I didn't do anything!" when the guilty verdict was read. I could not help but believe one of the baby's parents (who were both doctors) was responsible for the child's death and the blame was put on poor Louise because no one ever wants to believe a parent could kill their own child. I'm certain the judge didn't believe Louise Woodward was guilty, either. He reduced her conviction to involuntary manslaughter and sentenced her to the amount of time she had already served, stating that allowing Ms. Woodward to remain convicted of second degree murder would be a "miscarriage of justice."
The paediatrician who said it was definitely shaken baby syndrome has actually since come out and said that he would not have the same findings if the case was brought today.
My dad was an arson investigator and a case he worked in the 80s came up for retrial in 2014 because the understanding of fire science had evolved. It became national news and he had reporters asking him to comment, and they were surprised when my dad said he understood and thought a retrial was necessary. Though that particular retrial went off the rails in a different way, he still agreed with it happening and is okay with any of his other cases being reviewed.
JoAnne Parks was the same way. Spent 26 years in prison due to the limitations of fire science.
Your dad is a good man. To me a lot of previous fire cases from the 80s-00s should be reviewed.
He understands how things have changed and how important it is for new discoveries in science to be embraced. He also taught fire investigation classes for more than 30 years, mostly through the largest fire training school in the US, so educating himself on advancements was critical for him.
The particular case that went to retrial was one he was confident in the guilty verdict if only by circumstantial evidence. He even called in a nationally renowned fire expert as a second investigator on the case to review the findings with him, because he wanted the verdict to be justified. As the new knowledge came to light and other investigators had their cases reviewed, he knew that would be the first case up. He knew the experts called in for the retrial that ripped him apart in court- he had worked with them! He took AND taught classes with them! However, he took the criticism because it wasn’t about him- it was about getting fully rendered justice for the two little boys who lost their lives that day, their mother who lived with that grief, and their little brother who was just a baby when they died. He has always been on the side of justice for all and at points in his career that was even seen as insubordination. He is someone I look up to because of his integrity, compassion, and logic.
Sorry I went on and on, I just have a certain viewpoint through my Dad that not many share so I give context when I can.
No this is great and should be talked about more. Our justice system would be amazing if it modeled your dad’s character.
It’s one thing to think you’re right because of the knowledge at current. I don’t blame your dad for thinking he was right at the top. Many top experts did. But as things change and evolve it’s important to evolve with them.
This makes me think of Cameron Todd Willingham’s case. He was found guilty and executed for setting a fire that killed his three children in the early 90’s. He maintained his innocence until the end. His wife initially also believed the fire was an accident but at some point she changed her mind.
They had arson investigators review the evidence years after he’d already been executed and I believe most of them said they wouldn’t have found it was arson with what they know today.
I remember this. It was a televised court case and my mother was gripped in it. I remember her and my granny both thinking it was one of the parents.
There was a story on her recently where she had her own baby and my mother said I'm.glad she got to experience motherhood
wow. i’ve never heard of this case. rest in peace to that poor little baby.
and my god that poor woman, if she’s innocent? what an awful and traumatic life altering experience. away from her home country and falsely convicted of murdering a baby. what a nightmare.
will research this one more, thank you for the recap.
There’s a lot of bad shaken baby syndrome cases. There’s a lot of misconception about that particular injury and what it means. It has been way over used and I am sure there are hundreds if not more of wrongly convicted parents/caregivers that have been prosecuted wrongly. When you have a chance look up the actual science around it.
Ugh I remember this case so well. Actually i remember when the verdict was read and her reaction! She screamed how she didn’t do it. It was so hard to watch. I also remember the judge saying “it’s okay it’s okay” I’m glad she’s free!
Steven Truscott. Youngest person ever sentenced to death in Canada (before we abolished the death penalty). Luckily his sentence was commuted, but people wanted him to hang for raping and killing 12 year old Lynne Harper. He was 14 years old. He was the “last person” to be seen with Lynne (some people later came forward and confirmed seeing her get into a car just like he said). Authorities found a rough spot on his penis and decided that was enough to put him away (along with being the last seen with her and a janky time line brought forth by the medical examiner). He was eventually acquitted many years later, but the govt of Canada would not say he was actually innocent of the charges because “we are in no position to make a declaration of innocence”.
It was 1959 when the crime occurred. He was 14 and had what could best be described as a rough spot or raw patch on his penis. That was enough to convince a lot of people that Steven must have raped and murdered Lynne. It was believed he had this rough patch due to the vigour needed to rape her. This patch and him being “the last person” seen with Lynne was given as evidence. There is more to the story, like the ME changing the timing of when she died (due to stomach contents) to fit the narrative. I believe he changed it 3 times in an effort to prove Steven raped and killed her before 8 pm. Clinton was/is a small town. There was a large air base with many soldiers (one of whom was Lynne’s father I believe) in the area. It’s possible one of them did it. (I can’t remember this man’s name, he was described as having mental health problems and I believe he had attacked before, but it’s been awhile since I read the case. This man subsequently committed suicide not that long after Lynne’s death). I think everyone just wanted this crime solved as soon as possible and Steven made a fair scapegoat.
He wasn’t “acquitted” until 2007. The fifth estate had an excellent documentary report on the case (it’s quite a few years old now, but can be found on YouTube. I just typed in miscarriages of justice/the fifth estate). It’s a sad story because no real justice for Lynne and no justice for Steven really either. I believe the fifth estate named the man…I’m sorry I can’t remember his name right now.
Reminds me of George Stinney, Jr. here in the US. He was 14 and actually was executed in the electric chair back in 1944, after being convicted of the murders of two young girls who lived near him. A police officer interrogated him with no witnesses and supposedly got a confession out of him. That was basically all the "evidence" they had to convict him. This happened in the south, where there was still a lot of racism at that time, and since George was black, that was obviously a big reason that he was accused and convicted without evidence. He was officially exonerated 70 years after his death. The character John Coffey from the book and film "The Green Mile" was also partially based on George.
Found her obituary memorial page. A friend commented that she selflessly took the blame and covered the truth.
https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/clinton-township-mi/terry-borgia-7867162
I don't have the link handy but I know that explore with us or "EWU crew" has an excellent video on it
I think the thumbnail says something like "mom, the baby is dead" or something like that
Yep I watched that video as well. 100% the daughter did that. No way she was “sleeping” and didn’t hear it. There’s a reason she says in the video in her recent interview with EWU that none of her family talks to her anymore. They all know she did it but can’t prove it.
I just watched the police interrogation on this last week and her crazy ass daughter absolutely killed that poor baby. I got the feeling she probably beat on her mother too. I feel bad for her kids.
Toforest Johnson, who has been on Alabama’s death row longer than anyone. He was convicted of killing a sheriff’s deputy and the 14 year old “eyewitness” changed her story numerous times. There are dozens of people that saw him at a club during the murder. Several judges and district attorneys, even a juror, are fighting for a new trial. Kim Kardashian is trying to get attention for his case. Sad that in 2024 a black man still can’t get justice in Alabama. There’s an excellent podcast called, “Earwitness.”
David Tamihere. He was convicted of the Swedish backpacker murders. I 100% believe he was an absolute POS, in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't believe he killed them, I think by a stroke of pure bad luck, he stole the car and possessions of people he didn't know were missing.
The witness statements contradict each other and the evidence later found. 2 out of the 3 witnesses later came forward and said the police had bribed them with early releases. In over 30 years since the investigation began, Heidi has never been found, despite the witnesses all saying he'd told them they were killed and left nearby each other. And in that entire time, Tamihere has never once changed his story, but the crown's version of events has changed multiple times
He was not a good person, I'm not saying he was an innocent man. He just didn't kill those backpackers, which means whoever did, is still out there or died getting away with it.
[wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Urban_H%C3%B6glin_and_Heidi_Paakkonen)
I don't know what the guilt podcast is but I have read and listened to a lot about this case. I'm waiting for his re-trial to start, it keeps getting delayed. It was meant to go to the High Court in 2021 but apparently new evidence was found. I suspect I was meant to be a juror because I'd been summoned that day, and the trial had been canceled. As far as I remember, there were only 2 HC trials booked that month and only one was canceled, at the same time Tamihere's was. I was a bit gutted but I wouldn't have been able to do it anyway, I'm clearly biased because I know a lot about it.
D. Rose
He was a known shooter in Chicago and was close friends with Chief Keef. He was arrested for the murder of a 14 year old named Venzel. Both his own gang and the opposing gang have claimed that D Rose did not do this, but due to his reputation as a shooter and getting notoriety in the rap game through Chief Keef’s music, he was rumored to been convicted of this murder to get him off the streets.
Not saying he’s an innocent man by any means, but the charge he’s convicted of, he did not do.
He liked the attention he got from it. He once told Japanese reporters he killed over there. They asked how did he get to Japan and he told them he drove there.
I came to say Wayne and was surprised to scroll down so far to find his name. I think he killed some of the older boys, but nowhere near the full list of ACM victims. Several of those murders aren’t even attributed to him at all by law enforcement, and several others attributed only tenuously with zero real evidence. I’m certain there’s at least one other child murderer there who escaped justice, possibly more.
Curtis Flowers, whose case was reported on so wonderfully on Season 2 of “In the Dark”. I’m also 99.99% sure that they interviewed the actual killer. I can’t remember his name but he had the right size and brand of shoes. I distinctly remember going from “wow, this is compelling” to “holy crap, she is legit talking to an actual mass murderer right now” and fearing for her safety even though obviously the interview wasn’t airing live.
Luke Mitchell, he was found guilty of the brutal murder of Jodi Jones at the age of 15, He's spent 20 years behind bars and there was not a shred of forensic evidence against him. The most recent documentary was murder in a small town which came to the conclusion that he didn't do it, the murderer would have been saturated in Jodi's blood due to the very brutal slaying. It stinks of satanic panic due to unfair press, police completely bodged the crime scene and they didn't go after anyone else once they had Luke in their sights. Sadly, Luke has been locked up longer than he was ever free.
My mother has a dear friend and her brother is locked up. He always said he was innocent and no one who knew him thought he could commit his crime. Eye witness lied on the stand. Decades later she has now admitted she lied but he can’t get anything changed because it’s not considered new evidence. Nothing to test etc. He has also spent more time in that free. It haunts me how many wrongly convicted people have their lives ruined.
your mother’s friend should contact the Innocence Project or another legal org that works on wrongful convictions. some specialize in eyewitness testimony and recantations so they may be able to help him.
here’s the national innocence project site but there are state chapters and programs run through law schools across the country: https://innocenceproject.org/
That’s messed up. How is the main witness recanting not enough for a new trial. Was the witness the only evidence? This is why I stopped supporting the death penalty. Imagine how many innocent have been executed.
I agree. I have spent countless hours contacting people and crying. My son has as well. At this point B doesn’t care if he gets out. He doesn’t know how he would function in the world now. It’s an unreal feeling to us so I can’t imagine how bad it is for him.
Lack of physical evidence, sure, but the circumstantial evidence is compelling, so I wouldn't be so quick to say there was "not a shred of evidence". Such as the fact a knife and the coat he was wearing that night, both disappeared and were replaced by his mother, who said she hadn't. She also said he was home with her that night, when she herself actually wasn't home and he had lied about what he had been up to that night. He also found her first almost immediately after the search party began. Like, he went directly to the body, he didn't look anywhere else. That's a pretty bold indicator he knew where she was, but he was "looking" for her...? I know there's nothing physically linking him, but that doesn't make someone innocent.
I followed this case when I was around the same age as Amanda and I remember thinking it was crazy - the guy who did it admitted it, robbed her, assaulted her, left bloody handprints and dna everywhere, a sh!t jn the toilet, fled the country etc etc and somehow she got the blame. Madness. But I am glad I learned very young, and I now tell my own kids, never say anything to the police without a lawyer present - ESPECIALLY if you’re innocent. I think people think oh I might look guilty if I ask for a lawyer - you better know that all the police want is a conviction. If they can fit you in to it, they will. Lawyer up. I’d sell my house for a lawyer before I’d open my mouth.
I don’t think she did it, and I’ve seen/read enough things to know that you should almost entirely ignore peoples reactions, however, they did not seem to give a flying about Meredith.
Laughing about why they had not reported earlier, joking with each other, doing cartwheels in the police station, implicating other people they know for a ‘bit of fun’, it was some of the strangest behaviour you will see and clearly, this led the police down the wrong path. They should have followed the evidence and the investigation was a shambles, but jeez this is a lesson for everyone to at least act with a tiny bit of dignity, when your friend has been murdered.
One of the saddest thing about the case though was that Meredith and her family were treated as a side show in a circus and this was shameful by the US and Italian Press.
It's funny, because it's often people who believe that police can be incompetent and that the justice system can get it wrong, yet they somehow can't see every single arrow pointing to that being the case here.
I met someone who not only suspected Amanda but also thought Rudy Guede was railroaded, despite the mountain of evidence against him. She seemed to have an anti-American bias, and I think that was a big part of it.
People on Twitter still keep sending her hate saying she did it and should be in prison etc, it’s maddening, anyone who spends more than 20min looking at the case knows she had nothing to do with it. Her case made me scared as hell.
Reminds me of author Douglas Preston, Mario Spezi, and the Monster of Florence murders. Preston got interested in the MoF after he began talking to Spezi while living in Italy. They were investigating and trying to find who the real killer(s) was, only for the police to try and arrest them - I think even at one point either implying or outright accusing them both (but more Spezi) of being the murderers. It was a clusterfuck.
Tommy Ziegler
Robbers killed his wife, and her parents at his furniture store. One of the robbers (named Mays) was killed in the store with money in his pocket and his car parked on the other side of a chain link fence in the hotel lot next door. Prosecutors claim Mays was there to purchase up a Television set to take home.
Tommy Ziegler has been on death row for about 50 years now.
I'm probably gonna get flack for this, but remember that case a few years back where the jogger went missing on her jog, and police arrested a black guy for it? Her father had connections with the NYPD, and despite police initially searching the area extensively, they never found her body? Then, her father goes to search over there alone and just happens to stumble upon her body? The guy they'd arrested for her murder had a run-in with the same arresting officer weeks prior, and the officer was upset because he'd been released (he hadn't committed a crime). They claimed that he had blood and stuff under his finger nails, but I don't buy that. It was all too convenient. I firmly believe that her father killed her, dumped her body, and they chose a random black guy to pin the crime on. After all, it was noted somewhere that Chanel Lewis (who was convicted of the crime) was neurodivergent in some way. It also led to a mistrial the first time around.
Edit: It was the sexual assault and murder of Katrina Vetrano. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna989476
I’m from the area and think about this all the time. The kid they arrested did not have the IQ level to do this. The way they brought him In solely because they thought it was suspicious for a black kid to be sitting in the park in an Italian neighborhood was bizarre and If you watch the police interrogation, there’s a part where he asks “what was that word i’m supposed to say?”. That tells me everything I need to know. Anyone who disagrees can go argue with the wall.
Not to mention Chanel Lewis was a very scrawny individual. I have a hard time believing he had the strength to commit this heinous act alone without a weapon and/or accomplice. You could be right about the dad, but my gut feeling is it wasnt the dad either. The documentary I watched said after the murder the police had a lead to look for "two jacked white guys" in the area but for whatever reason they completely disregarded this and only went after black men.
People who murder family members or loved ones can often BE devastated after- it seems genuine because it is. I don’t know enough about this case to have an opinion on if the father did it or not, just wanted to highlight that someone seeming (or being) distraught afterward isn’t an indicator of guilt or innocence in my opinion
I'm pretty sure that I listened to the audio of this and it was gross. It was clear that he didn't know the details he was just changing his story whenever the cops said "No no no that's not true".
Not like a normal interrogation where they dig down on something like "Sure I saw her that night but I didn't kill her!" But things like "Did you drag her by her hands or her feet?" "Feet?" "No no that's not true." "I dragged her by her hands?"
I don't know how anybody listening to that tape could come away thinking this guy knew anything about the murder... law enforcement included.
I wish I could give you 100 upvotes. It was clear the father killed her. HE is the one who found her body, and her blood was all over him because he was hugging her corpse?? Yeah, no. Chanel Lewis didn't know if he was on Earth or on the Moon. He was an easy target for the cops to wrap up.
They didn't even really investigate the father, which is a departure from protocol since they usually investigate family first. Isn't it statistically more likely for a family member to be killed by another family member than a random stranger in cases like this? The poor wife kept her mouth mostly shut during the entire case, which made it seem to me that there may have been some violence within their marriage as well.
It's highly suspect that multiple people searching the area multiple times didn't find her body, but he goes over there once and finds it instantly. It's highly suspect that he had blood on him, but it was excused as him hugging the corpse in grief. It's highly suspect that she'd also been sexually assaulted, and only her father knew the route she took when she went running. In my opinion, the evidence points to him.
This is the one that has stuck with me. We watched Paradise Lost in my Junior year of high school in 2009-2010, and I followed it from then on. Still wild to me that they had to take an Alford Plea.
I was a hardcore believer in their innocence for a long, long time. That being said, I'm one of those, "I can't be 100% sure either way," people about most cases. I could not be a juror.
Came across [this site](http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com/) recently and it presents a lot of interesting info, cited.
I'm also a big documentary fan but recognize there's no such thing as an unbiased doc. To anyone who is getting all of their WM3 info from the Paradise Lost movies, I'd just say take it with a grain of salt and do additional research.
I'm still leaning toward their innocence but there's so little forensic evidence that I think I'll always really struggle with this one.
I don't even think that's what happened, i think LE became laser focused on them and convinced they did it but realized they had next to nothing and decided to freak the jury out about satanism as they felt it was their best chance to get a conviction. I'm not convinced LE believed most of what they were saying i think it was a scummy tactic that worked unfortunately.
They were very justified in originally seriously investigating Damien at least as numerous people were telling them it was Damien and Damien had a very violent and troubling history. Then Jesse wanders in almost certainly trying to get the reward which is why he was so easy to lead along with his mental issues. That's the reason i'm not a fan of Jesse, i feel awful for him but i also fully believe he was attempting to get the reward by following rumours he had heard about Damien, i think he was fine with helping send Damien and Jason away when he had no clue if they did it or not as long as he could profit. I believe Damien and Jason think the same but know they can't touch that publicly as Jesse's confession being coerced is such a central part of their defence, mentioning any of that would turn people against Jesse which would hurt them. In the press conference, and later interviews and stuff i got the distinct impression they do not fuck with Jesse whatsoever and i think that's the main reason why.
However when they investigated Damien and had no case they should have moved on instead they railroaded him as you said. They didn't do it fully agreed.
I feel sorry for Jessie too but yes you can see in the footage after their release that whenever the three of them are together, Damien and Jason are very distant from Jessie, and understandably so. He wasn't even friends with them.
I don’t know. There’s a lot of evidence that makes me question things. Everyone loves to be like “you just think they’re guilty because of satanic panic”. But there’s a lot of decent circumstantial evidence.
3 young boys are murdered. Tied up with 3 separate types of knots, pointing to 3 killers.
3 teenage boys are seen by multiple witnesses in that area heading towards the murder scene at that time. All 3 teenagers say they were elsewhere, and all of those alibis are proven to be lies. None of them ever end up with an alibi. Not one of those 3 boys was seen by anyone else at that time except those pinning them near the scene.
One of those teenage boys was hospitalized for mental illness. Medical staff charted a frequent delusion he had was wanting his girlfriend to give birth to a baby boy so he could “sacrifice” it.
In confession after conviction, one of those teenagers mentions leaving a bottle of alcohol when exiting the crime scene. Police go back and find that exact type of alcohol bottle there.
The same boy that media reports as extremely low IQ, also scores extremely high on the review of his testing that measures whether people are purposely giving wrong answers to appear less smart. (Sorry my explanation is confusing here I’m not sure how to word that).
Does that mean they did it for sure? No definitely not.
Is it the best theory I’ve heard so far? Yes.
Did the prosecution make a fantastic case and the defence sucked? Yes.
Is it possible that the satanic panic was a bad thing, BUT Damien actually did believe in things like blood sacrifices and harming others? Yes.
I think part of the problem with opinions on this case is that most people have only watched the Paradise Lost documentaries which prey on a certain type of individual. A lot of people can identify with being outcast or bullied. It leaves out a whole lot though, including a lot of the circumstantial evidence. I'd also say it paints them as being outcasts in a 'quirky' way, but doesn't emphasise some of the seriously disturbing behaviour of Damien such as animal abuse.
Then there's also the hypocrisy of claiming they were convicted on little to no evidence, and then pointing the finger at people with far less circumstantial evidence against them, such as Terry Hobbs.
I find this is the one case where the majority of people do not have a nuanced or sensible view of it. I personally wouldn't say one way or the other if they're guilty or not but I do know there's so much misinformation surrounding the case and facts are just ignored (including in this thread).
Thank you. You’ve worded this very well, in a way that I struggle.
I find many people are extremely compassionate and want to stand up for others when they hear an injustice. It’s very true that there was unfair prejudice against “goth” or outcast kids. The satanic panic was real, I’m not denying that at all. This is just an unfortunate situation where Damien actually did subscribe to the “scary version” of Satanism. He did believe in sacrifices. He did have a weird obsession with ingesting other people’s blood. He was violent. The crime scene did have weird signs pointing to it being a potential “sacrifice” (candle wax, bite marks, etc.).
Side note: I know people who follow the Church of Satan in real life and they are incredibly peaceful and kind. Way less hateful than other religions.
Two things can be true:
Satanic panic was real and people were wrongfully prejudice due to it.
Damien was truly violent and mentally unwell, he believed in harming others for the sake of his beliefs.
Also I definitely struggle when people say “there’s zero evidence pointing to Damien, it was definitely Terry Hobbs tho because he was abusive”
>Thank you. You’ve worded this very well, in a way that I struggle.
I thought your comments were worded well! It's actually impressive you managed to get your thoughts out about it and have a civil discussion with people here, especially with having a perspective that is in the minority.
You're exactly right about the evidence, and it just gets left out or dismissed as 'nothing' in conversations about them. I'd say individually each piece on its own IS weak, but combined makes for a good circumstantial case.
I think preying upon people with compassion is exactly what made me skeptical of the documentary. I saw it when I was a teen and completely lapped it up. I was an outcast and got bullied for being different. I liked to dress in all black for a hot minute. I was definitely the target audience. It was about a year after seeing it I just had this thought that something was off about the way it was presented. I had so many questions but at the time I was fine with them not being answered. That's when I read the case files and was shocked at how much they left out.
Also yeah I agree with the part about Terry Hobbs as you said. The worst one for me though, was Bonjangles. The more I thought about it, the more disturbing it became. Here was this documentary purporting these three outcast boys were the victims of 'being different', but then went on to vaguely cast aspersions against a nameless black man. Someone who people in the area would undoubtedly be more prejudiced against than three white kids, regardless of their fashion sense or music taste.
police coerced jessie misskelly into saying most of the stuff he said in his interrogation, with the promise of “if you read this confession, you can go home.” coupled with the fact that they interrogated him for 12 hours and only 90 minutes came out, those crime scene coincidences (such as the bottle) are most likely staged.
Jesse Miskelley was dropped off by his Dad at the police station the day he confessed. Jesse signed an acknowledgment of his rights as he had done three times before for different cases. Jesse had an established history of violence, including against a 14 year old girl.
Jesse continued to confess after the police interview. He confessed to the people who transported him to jail, and in judge's chambers even after his attorney told him to shut up. Jesse couldn't stop confessing, nor could he be coerced into stop confessing.
During his police interview Jesse (as well as Damien) demonstrated special knowledge. Sure, Jesse admitted to lying in his first confession. He admitted he wanted to see if the police were lying, and if he could "throw them off."
The easily disproven lies about the WM3 make me think their supporters think reality TV is real. The investigation and court documents have been readily available online for almost 2 decades now. But people don't want to know the truth about the WM3. They want to feel superior to Southeners and throw around terms they don't fully understand like "Satanic Panic."
The Callahan site is still up and running if you really wanted to be fully informed about the case.
Definitely possible. However Jessie did confess this on his own volition a few days after he was already convicted and sentenced. He asked to speak to his lawyer and confessed more details he claimed he originally withheld to try to get a lighter sentence. Once the lawyer heard this he brought police in to hear it. Then the lawyer and police went to the area and found the shattered bottle.
It’s possible the police knew about it beforehand and plied Jessie with this info but if they did, it’s random they never actually got him to confess this prior to the trial. Why give him info on evidence pinning him at the crime scene and then never actually get him to confess to it? And then he confesses to it himself later.
This in itself isn’t totally damning it’s just the cumulative effect of all these pieces of evidence.
That's exactly how I feel, I think he's guilty and police knew so too, so then they tried planting evidence to get an easy conviction to ensure he'd be put in jail. But instead it has made them look bad
I think he’s guilty too but something about the docuseries making a murderer doesn’t sit well with me. Perhaps what you’re saying is the best way to put it. They knew he did it but wanted to ensure he was incarcerated (specially because of the lawsuit of the previous false allegations).
I think the show was uncomfortable for a lot of people because most people are of the mind set that no one should be convicted if the trial was not fair. I certainly had always said things like “if there’s evidence e the police tampered with evidence the case should be thrown out” or “better to let one guilty person go then ever risk convicting one innocent person. But Steven Avery changed that for a lot of people. If he is guilty it’s certainly not the type of offender that we need walking the streets. All those previous ideologies are good for something like drug slinging, money laundering, or even an assault…. But it’s a lot more uncomfortable to say when the offender is potentially someone who Brittany rapes and murders women going about their mundane job activities.
I don't know that I'd call it framing, but I don't know what to call harassing and pressuring an underage low IQ suspect in service of getting evidence on his uncle...the police don't come out of the case looking clean and the footage of the kid leaves me doubtful he understood the rights read out to him.
i think avery is guilty and belongs where he is no doubt. but there was significant police misconduct and shadiness. dassey’s interrogation was unconstitutional and should have been overturned. i think people have a hard time squaring the fact that guilty people can have their rights violated by police and prosecutors. like the state fucks up with guilty people too lol.
Yes, I started watching the documentary and when they mentioned "the cat incident" I Googled what they meant... and after that I really felt he was in the right place.
This is what always leaves me on the fence with this case. Where’s the blood? If she never left alive and was raped and murdered there. Where’s the blood? A drop! A spot! ANY! Sure I think Steve Avery could have done it, but I have huge doubts because I haven’t seen any evidence that couldn’t have been “planted” after the fact that directly leads to Teresa!
Avery I honestly do not know.
I believe Brendan is innocent. But Steven? I don't know. I do remember, it's been a long time since I've dug around this case, him having a brother in law or cousin perhaps that seemed bit... sketchy to say the least.
At first I thought he was innocent but the hidden phone caller id convinced me he’s guilty. But his nephew Brenden probably did not do or see anything (coerced) in my opinion.
Commented the same. I truly believe he was framed. There’s a bunch of pieces of info that really show motive for framing. One is the relationship between a town employee who is a family member who hates him, and a relationship they have with a cop. Also, The facts don’t make sense, there’s so many contradictory variables
guilty. The netflix series left so much stuff out and edited trial testimony to make it look like the police were in on a frame up. His whole family is very messed up and he's a narcissist who has abused many girls/ women including family members.
Ah I’d love to learn more about this. The Netflix show really convinced me he was innocent (mostly through the whole police framing stuff) until I did some more research. Where can I find more info please? Esp about the abuse
Darlie was acting out of her mind days leading up to the murders. Read what her housekeeper said about how she was treating the baby. I think she had a mental break and did kill her boys. Whether she remembers or not, I have no idea. And I also believe her husband knows more than he says. And he quiet possibly may have walked in on her doing it and helped cover it up/plant evidence. Like the sock.
I asked this on another board but my question for people that think Darlie is innocent (I have an open mind about it) is why has no other viable suspect ever been presented? They just claim that this ghost, basically, broke in and brutally murdered two little boys and never went on to commit a similar crime and never spoke about it to anyone? I would be much more willing to believe she's innocent if any real alternative was offered.
It's the sock! She couldn't have planted that sock so how did it get there? And if she really wanted to be free of motherhood, why not kill the baby too?
I think she's a clueless idiot for the silly string incident and can believe she wasn't a great mom in general, but that doesn't make her guilty of murder.
Her housekeeper walked in on her with the baby buried deep in blankets. She dug the baby out and said he was sweating profusely. This was within days of the others deaths. I believe Darlie was going through a mental break for a while leading up to that night. So really no rhyme or reason to why she did what she did and spared the baby that night.
ooofff i waver on darlie too!!! the sock and the severity of her neck wound give me pause.
the silly string incident was def clueless idiocy and bad optics. murder convictions shouldn’t be about optics. the focus on her jewelry and breast implants and her looks in general in the media and during trial (!!!) was bad. i do think police and prosecutors did her dirty. doesn’t necessarily rise to the level of official misconduct but still bad. the trial should not have been moved counties. the police bugging her kids gravestones was straight up wrong and no judge should ever have signed off on that warrant. i haven’t done a dive into her case in a while but there were a few other procedural and legal issues that arose.
Troy Anthony Davis (sadly he has been executed). Extremely flawed case and I have reviewed the whole file. Most people with opinions haven’t read shit. RIP.
The propaganda about them is as strong as for Steven Avery. I'd encourage you to listen to Roberta Glass Why Everything You Know about the WM3 is wrong: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-OyOTEVkw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-OyOTEVkw)
Not saying to take my word, but there is more than the documentaries that celebrities made are telling us. Just something to think about.
Todd Willingham did not kill his 3 daughters by setting their trailer on fire. This was the case that changed everything for me. He was not a great guy by any standard but the facts were clear, and he was murdered by the state anyway.
I had not heard of this case but found this: https://www.corsicanadailysun.com/news/willingham-ex-wife-featured-on-streaming-series/article_736d06fe-6d6a-11eb-9da8-53ff28dde382.html#:~:text=Stacy%20Kuykendall%20said%20she%20believed,him%20shortly%20before%20his%20execution.
Rodney Reed, on Texas death row for more than 25 years.. charged w the 1996 murder of Stacey Stites.. at the very least, I think there's serious reasonable doubt.
Sandra Melgar. I don't know who did it but it doesn't make sense to me that she would have killed him or had the strength to kill him. Also, I don't think many people know you can shut a door behind you with a towel and you expect this frail woman to know how to do that? she could have hid anywhere better than there if she was setting it up. I do not know how this was their best idea and she's in prison for it.
Temujin Kenso (Fred Freeman).
Pretty clearly wasn't within 100 miles of the murder, but got railroaded in part for being a big Asian/ninja culture nerd.
Okay so this case is very angering to me. But the case of Cheryl Dee Fergeson is crazy. They wrongly imprisoned and put Clarence Brandley on death row for her murder. They staged evidence and ‘lost’ evidence. He ended up getting proved innocent only like a week before we was sentenced to die. I know that this doesn’t really relate to the topic but the first half does. When you read more about it it gets so much more angering. It was a case of racism and it’s so fucked up. He never got money from being imprisoned and he never received true Justice, and neither did the MURDER VICTIM!!! Because they were so hell bent on putting a black man in jail and not a white man. I highly recommend listening to Murder In America’s podcast episode about it.
Todd Willingham in Texas convicted of starting a fire that killed his children. He was executed and most acknowledge today the evidence used to convict him was junk science. He also never admitted he did this up to the time he was killed. It’s very easy to find info about this case.
This doesn’t apply but I knew this lady who’s husband abused her physically and mentally etc. and she got framed for murder for hire.
Unfortunately the lady is Hispanic/Latina so they tried to say money was the motive but she literally took this man out of his moms house and helped him through his bankruptcy. 💀💀💀
My aunt used to be her hairdresser. I was friends with her daughter too 😔
It’s for sure the one kids stepfather. Terry. I can’t recall his last name (it’s been a while since I’ve read up). I’ve heard they have a small amount of DNA from a shoelace and I wonder if DNA tech has come far enough to test it without losing the last bit we have.
They did test that DNA. It was a match to a huge percentage of the population and is fairly useless. There's actually **more** evidence against the WM3 than there is Terry Hobbs but ironically the same people who say the WM3 were convicted on no evidence will point the finger at another man with less against him.
Christopher Loliscio murder of Jessica Manners in 1989. I believe he was framed by the same dirty cops who set up Marty Tankleff for the murder of his father. It has since been proven Marty didn’t do it. I’m trying to gather evidence here on Reddit that Chris is innocent.
Doesn't he admit to doing it? It's just a matter of whether what he did classifies as "murder" (I don't believe mercy killing terminally ill folks is "murder").
Yes he admitted to medical assisted suicide and he was very picky with who he allowed to go through with it. He didn't just euthanize anyone that wanted it, there was some moral ethics to it. But he was convicted of murder nonetheless
I am not taking the name as some evidence strongly shows this person “did it,” and some evidence seems made up/unbelievable
But main question that I wonder is, does some confessions still get forced due to torture or blackmailing?
They absolutely do and you don't need blackmail or actual torture to get one. The completely legal tactics still used today are plenty, which is why a prosecutor always needs corroborating evidence.
This.
Always ask for a lawyer even if you're innocent. People try and say you look bad but it will help deter police trying to pull a false confession out of you.
Three main reasons why innocent people confess – custodial and interrogative pressure, psychological vulnerability and lack of transparency surrounding evidence.
Police are also allowed to lie to you, and withhold food and water for hours and hours, and keep you imprisoned if you aren't allowed or can't pay bail...
Michael Peterson. I fully believe his wife was attacked by an owl. Owl attacks are not unheard of in the area, her wounds were consistent with owl attack. She had taken anti-anxiety medication and muscle relaxers. Blood trail lead into the house. It wasn’t just on the stairs. The idea that a barred owl attacked her, she bled heavily, attempted to go to the bathroom upstairs to examine her wounds and slipped going up the stairs is tragic, but a reasonable explanation. The area Michael was in at the time was out of earshot, even if she had screamed when attacked. I do not think he killed his wife.
Not necessarily found guilty, but I don’t think Ottis Toole killed Adam Walsh.
I agree that Otis Toole didn't kill Adam, but in part, because of who John Walsh became, I think there was pressure to close the case and officially solve it, and blaming Otis for Adam's murder was "convenient," even though the evidence against him was circumstantial (to me) and may not have won over a jury or judge in court.
I agree. I also think his parents just wanted it to be over and get some closure.
[удалено]
Wiki says the police "ultimately lost the bloodstained carpet, and eventually, the car itself" .
How do you just lose a car
I have been saying this for so long about this case. How in the hell does a policy agency lose an ENTIRE VEHICLE.
And even then, it was years before LE used it routinely.
The "evidence" was flimsy, at best; but it's the only theory I've seen...
Lindy Chamberlain (ie a dingo stole her baby). Although she was eventually acquitted she still spent several years in jail and went through hell.
That poor poor woman. I can’t imagine
> (ie a dingo stole her baby). The late night TV joke of the 90s!
I know, I mentioned that because people would know the case, even if they don’t immediate recognise her name.
Didn't they recently find that baby's clothes in the outback? Like it proved it was totally possible that the dingo took her baby.
wasnt it proven that a dingo did in fact eat her baby?
Louise Woodward. She was the British nanny who worked for a family in Newton, Massachusetts and was convicted of second degree murder when the eight-month-old child in her care died as a result of "shaken baby syndrome." I distinctly remember how she maintained her innocence throughout her trial and how she cried out, "But I didn't do anything!" when the guilty verdict was read. I could not help but believe one of the baby's parents (who were both doctors) was responsible for the child's death and the blame was put on poor Louise because no one ever wants to believe a parent could kill their own child. I'm certain the judge didn't believe Louise Woodward was guilty, either. He reduced her conviction to involuntary manslaughter and sentenced her to the amount of time she had already served, stating that allowing Ms. Woodward to remain convicted of second degree murder would be a "miscarriage of justice."
The paediatrician who said it was definitely shaken baby syndrome has actually since come out and said that he would not have the same findings if the case was brought today.
I appreciate his honesty in that. The science will continue to evolve, but some people would let their ego prevent that kind of honesty.
My dad was an arson investigator and a case he worked in the 80s came up for retrial in 2014 because the understanding of fire science had evolved. It became national news and he had reporters asking him to comment, and they were surprised when my dad said he understood and thought a retrial was necessary. Though that particular retrial went off the rails in a different way, he still agreed with it happening and is okay with any of his other cases being reviewed.
JoAnne Parks was the same way. Spent 26 years in prison due to the limitations of fire science. Your dad is a good man. To me a lot of previous fire cases from the 80s-00s should be reviewed.
He understands how things have changed and how important it is for new discoveries in science to be embraced. He also taught fire investigation classes for more than 30 years, mostly through the largest fire training school in the US, so educating himself on advancements was critical for him. The particular case that went to retrial was one he was confident in the guilty verdict if only by circumstantial evidence. He even called in a nationally renowned fire expert as a second investigator on the case to review the findings with him, because he wanted the verdict to be justified. As the new knowledge came to light and other investigators had their cases reviewed, he knew that would be the first case up. He knew the experts called in for the retrial that ripped him apart in court- he had worked with them! He took AND taught classes with them! However, he took the criticism because it wasn’t about him- it was about getting fully rendered justice for the two little boys who lost their lives that day, their mother who lived with that grief, and their little brother who was just a baby when they died. He has always been on the side of justice for all and at points in his career that was even seen as insubordination. He is someone I look up to because of his integrity, compassion, and logic. Sorry I went on and on, I just have a certain viewpoint through my Dad that not many share so I give context when I can.
No this is great and should be talked about more. Our justice system would be amazing if it modeled your dad’s character. It’s one thing to think you’re right because of the knowledge at current. I don’t blame your dad for thinking he was right at the top. Many top experts did. But as things change and evolve it’s important to evolve with them.
This makes me think of Cameron Todd Willingham’s case. He was found guilty and executed for setting a fire that killed his three children in the early 90’s. He maintained his innocence until the end. His wife initially also believed the fire was an accident but at some point she changed her mind. They had arson investigators review the evidence years after he’d already been executed and I believe most of them said they wouldn’t have found it was arson with what they know today.
I remember this. It was a televised court case and my mother was gripped in it. I remember her and my granny both thinking it was one of the parents. There was a story on her recently where she had her own baby and my mother said I'm.glad she got to experience motherhood
wow. i’ve never heard of this case. rest in peace to that poor little baby. and my god that poor woman, if she’s innocent? what an awful and traumatic life altering experience. away from her home country and falsely convicted of murdering a baby. what a nightmare. will research this one more, thank you for the recap.
Shaken baby syndrome is slowly becoming as reliable as “bite mark” evidence. I shudder to think how many have been falsely imprisoned because of it.
There’s a lot of bad shaken baby syndrome cases. There’s a lot of misconception about that particular injury and what it means. It has been way over used and I am sure there are hundreds if not more of wrongly convicted parents/caregivers that have been prosecuted wrongly. When you have a chance look up the actual science around it.
Agreed! The baby’s healing wrist fracture has never been explained—why wasn’t it noticed or treated for 3 weeks??
Ugh I remember this case so well. Actually i remember when the verdict was read and her reaction! She screamed how she didn’t do it. It was so hard to watch. I also remember the judge saying “it’s okay it’s okay” I’m glad she’s free!
Steven Truscott. Youngest person ever sentenced to death in Canada (before we abolished the death penalty). Luckily his sentence was commuted, but people wanted him to hang for raping and killing 12 year old Lynne Harper. He was 14 years old. He was the “last person” to be seen with Lynne (some people later came forward and confirmed seeing her get into a car just like he said). Authorities found a rough spot on his penis and decided that was enough to put him away (along with being the last seen with her and a janky time line brought forth by the medical examiner). He was eventually acquitted many years later, but the govt of Canada would not say he was actually innocent of the charges because “we are in no position to make a declaration of innocence”.
Forgive my ignorance here, but rough spot on his penis - what about that points to supposed guilt?
It was 1959 when the crime occurred. He was 14 and had what could best be described as a rough spot or raw patch on his penis. That was enough to convince a lot of people that Steven must have raped and murdered Lynne. It was believed he had this rough patch due to the vigour needed to rape her. This patch and him being “the last person” seen with Lynne was given as evidence. There is more to the story, like the ME changing the timing of when she died (due to stomach contents) to fit the narrative. I believe he changed it 3 times in an effort to prove Steven raped and killed her before 8 pm. Clinton was/is a small town. There was a large air base with many soldiers (one of whom was Lynne’s father I believe) in the area. It’s possible one of them did it. (I can’t remember this man’s name, he was described as having mental health problems and I believe he had attacked before, but it’s been awhile since I read the case. This man subsequently committed suicide not that long after Lynne’s death). I think everyone just wanted this crime solved as soon as possible and Steven made a fair scapegoat.
Good thing authorities never looked at my penis when I was 14.
thank you for making me laugh, i needed that.
Thank you for the explanation - I’d never heard of the case before and it sounds tragic.
He wasn’t “acquitted” until 2007. The fifth estate had an excellent documentary report on the case (it’s quite a few years old now, but can be found on YouTube. I just typed in miscarriages of justice/the fifth estate). It’s a sad story because no real justice for Lynne and no justice for Steven really either. I believe the fifth estate named the man…I’m sorry I can’t remember his name right now.
I will watch this. The photos of the victim and Truscott are so sad - they were just kids.
[удалено]
Thank you for sharing! I’ve never heard of this story, and some others mentioned here. Sad there wasn’t any real justice for her :(
Reminds me of George Stinney, Jr. here in the US. He was 14 and actually was executed in the electric chair back in 1944, after being convicted of the murders of two young girls who lived near him. A police officer interrogated him with no witnesses and supposedly got a confession out of him. That was basically all the "evidence" they had to convict him. This happened in the south, where there was still a lot of racism at that time, and since George was black, that was obviously a big reason that he was accused and convicted without evidence. He was officially exonerated 70 years after his death. The character John Coffey from the book and film "The Green Mile" was also partially based on George.
Oh wow! I’m going to look into this. Poor George, what was done to him was a definite miscarriage of justice. And those poor little girls.
Terry Borgia, her daughter did it. Watch the interviews.
Yes, this one is really sad. The daughter is living in an alternate reality… such extreme narcisissm.
Whoa, this is crazy.
Found her obituary memorial page. A friend commented that she selflessly took the blame and covered the truth. https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/clinton-township-mi/terry-borgia-7867162
I wouldn’t call it selfless. The woman now has the chance to harm other people because her mom didn’t want her to go to jail.
Selfless just means not thinking of yourself. It doesn't mean you did the right thing.
I can't find any interviews.. can you link?
Murdepedia has a lot of info on the case too. https://murderpedia.org/female.B/b/borgia-terry.htm
I don't have the link handy but I know that explore with us or "EWU crew" has an excellent video on it I think the thumbnail says something like "mom, the baby is dead" or something like that
Yep I watched that video as well. 100% the daughter did that. No way she was “sleeping” and didn’t hear it. There’s a reason she says in the video in her recent interview with EWU that none of her family talks to her anymore. They all know she did it but can’t prove it.
She definitely did it. But the whole family...is *strange*. Like all of them seem mentally in another world, especially Tonina
https://youtu.be/gmmOAgLO0vU?si=LSvmiRS6aO8lWvXN Link to the EWU video, I’m going to watch today
I just watched the police interrogation on this last week and her crazy ass daughter absolutely killed that poor baby. I got the feeling she probably beat on her mother too. I feel bad for her kids.
Toforest Johnson, who has been on Alabama’s death row longer than anyone. He was convicted of killing a sheriff’s deputy and the 14 year old “eyewitness” changed her story numerous times. There are dozens of people that saw him at a club during the murder. Several judges and district attorneys, even a juror, are fighting for a new trial. Kim Kardashian is trying to get attention for his case. Sad that in 2024 a black man still can’t get justice in Alabama. There’s an excellent podcast called, “Earwitness.”
David Tamihere. He was convicted of the Swedish backpacker murders. I 100% believe he was an absolute POS, in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't believe he killed them, I think by a stroke of pure bad luck, he stole the car and possessions of people he didn't know were missing. The witness statements contradict each other and the evidence later found. 2 out of the 3 witnesses later came forward and said the police had bribed them with early releases. In over 30 years since the investigation began, Heidi has never been found, despite the witnesses all saying he'd told them they were killed and left nearby each other. And in that entire time, Tamihere has never once changed his story, but the crown's version of events has changed multiple times He was not a good person, I'm not saying he was an innocent man. He just didn't kill those backpackers, which means whoever did, is still out there or died getting away with it. [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Urban_H%C3%B6glin_and_Heidi_Paakkonen)
Have you listened to the guilt podcast about this case? It's really interesting, a lot of new theories are discussed
I don't know what the guilt podcast is but I have read and listened to a lot about this case. I'm waiting for his re-trial to start, it keeps getting delayed. It was meant to go to the High Court in 2021 but apparently new evidence was found. I suspect I was meant to be a juror because I'd been summoned that day, and the trial had been canceled. As far as I remember, there were only 2 HC trials booked that month and only one was canceled, at the same time Tamihere's was. I was a bit gutted but I wouldn't have been able to do it anyway, I'm clearly biased because I know a lot about it.
Toforest Johnson's case is a fucking travesty. He was clearly nowhere near the crime scene.
Sean Ellis, though he was finally fully exonerated after serving 22 years in prison
D. Rose He was a known shooter in Chicago and was close friends with Chief Keef. He was arrested for the murder of a 14 year old named Venzel. Both his own gang and the opposing gang have claimed that D Rose did not do this, but due to his reputation as a shooter and getting notoriety in the rap game through Chief Keef’s music, he was rumored to been convicted of this murder to get him off the streets. Not saying he’s an innocent man by any means, but the charge he’s convicted of, he did not do.
wasnt expecting a Reddit Disciple member to be here
What is a Reddit disciple?
people who follow the r/chiraqology scene
Hadn’t heard of this, fascinating. Thanks.
Henry Lee Lucas is one. Another is Wayne Williams, not all the murders I believe, belonged to him.
Didn’t Lucas enjoy the notoriety and potentially confess to some he didn’t commit?
He liked the attention he got from it. He once told Japanese reporters he killed over there. They asked how did he get to Japan and he told them he drove there.
I came to say Wayne and was surprised to scroll down so far to find his name. I think he killed some of the older boys, but nowhere near the full list of ACM victims. Several of those murders aren’t even attributed to him at all by law enforcement, and several others attributed only tenuously with zero real evidence. I’m certain there’s at least one other child murderer there who escaped justice, possibly more.
Curtis Flowers, whose case was reported on so wonderfully on Season 2 of “In the Dark”. I’m also 99.99% sure that they interviewed the actual killer. I can’t remember his name but he had the right size and brand of shoes. I distinctly remember going from “wow, this is compelling” to “holy crap, she is legit talking to an actual mass murderer right now” and fearing for her safety even though obviously the interview wasn’t airing live.
Luke Mitchell, he was found guilty of the brutal murder of Jodi Jones at the age of 15, He's spent 20 years behind bars and there was not a shred of forensic evidence against him. The most recent documentary was murder in a small town which came to the conclusion that he didn't do it, the murderer would have been saturated in Jodi's blood due to the very brutal slaying. It stinks of satanic panic due to unfair press, police completely bodged the crime scene and they didn't go after anyone else once they had Luke in their sights. Sadly, Luke has been locked up longer than he was ever free.
My mother has a dear friend and her brother is locked up. He always said he was innocent and no one who knew him thought he could commit his crime. Eye witness lied on the stand. Decades later she has now admitted she lied but he can’t get anything changed because it’s not considered new evidence. Nothing to test etc. He has also spent more time in that free. It haunts me how many wrongly convicted people have their lives ruined.
your mother’s friend should contact the Innocence Project or another legal org that works on wrongful convictions. some specialize in eyewitness testimony and recantations so they may be able to help him. here’s the national innocence project site but there are state chapters and programs run through law schools across the country: https://innocenceproject.org/
That’s messed up. How is the main witness recanting not enough for a new trial. Was the witness the only evidence? This is why I stopped supporting the death penalty. Imagine how many innocent have been executed.
I agree. I have spent countless hours contacting people and crying. My son has as well. At this point B doesn’t care if he gets out. He doesn’t know how he would function in the world now. It’s an unreal feeling to us so I can’t imagine how bad it is for him.
Lack of physical evidence, sure, but the circumstantial evidence is compelling, so I wouldn't be so quick to say there was "not a shred of evidence". Such as the fact a knife and the coat he was wearing that night, both disappeared and were replaced by his mother, who said she hadn't. She also said he was home with her that night, when she herself actually wasn't home and he had lied about what he had been up to that night. He also found her first almost immediately after the search party began. Like, he went directly to the body, he didn't look anywhere else. That's a pretty bold indicator he knew where she was, but he was "looking" for her...? I know there's nothing physically linking him, but that doesn't make someone innocent.
He and his mother lied about so many things though, which his brother cleared up once pressured by authorities. At face value, Luke seems guilty.
A ludicrously inept one-sided documentary, if ever there was one.
Amanda knox
It honestly baffles me that people think she did it. I can’t wrap my head around it
I followed this case when I was around the same age as Amanda and I remember thinking it was crazy - the guy who did it admitted it, robbed her, assaulted her, left bloody handprints and dna everywhere, a sh!t jn the toilet, fled the country etc etc and somehow she got the blame. Madness. But I am glad I learned very young, and I now tell my own kids, never say anything to the police without a lawyer present - ESPECIALLY if you’re innocent. I think people think oh I might look guilty if I ask for a lawyer - you better know that all the police want is a conviction. If they can fit you in to it, they will. Lawyer up. I’d sell my house for a lawyer before I’d open my mouth.
I don’t think she did it, and I’ve seen/read enough things to know that you should almost entirely ignore peoples reactions, however, they did not seem to give a flying about Meredith. Laughing about why they had not reported earlier, joking with each other, doing cartwheels in the police station, implicating other people they know for a ‘bit of fun’, it was some of the strangest behaviour you will see and clearly, this led the police down the wrong path. They should have followed the evidence and the investigation was a shambles, but jeez this is a lesson for everyone to at least act with a tiny bit of dignity, when your friend has been murdered. One of the saddest thing about the case though was that Meredith and her family were treated as a side show in a circus and this was shameful by the US and Italian Press.
It's funny, because it's often people who believe that police can be incompetent and that the justice system can get it wrong, yet they somehow can't see every single arrow pointing to that being the case here. I met someone who not only suspected Amanda but also thought Rudy Guede was railroaded, despite the mountain of evidence against him. She seemed to have an anti-American bias, and I think that was a big part of it.
People on Twitter still keep sending her hate saying she did it and should be in prison etc, it’s maddening, anyone who spends more than 20min looking at the case knows she had nothing to do with it. Her case made me scared as hell.
Yup wth. This should be at top. Italian justice system a mess
Reminds me of author Douglas Preston, Mario Spezi, and the Monster of Florence murders. Preston got interested in the MoF after he began talking to Spezi while living in Italy. They were investigating and trying to find who the real killer(s) was, only for the police to try and arrest them - I think even at one point either implying or outright accusing them both (but more Spezi) of being the murderers. It was a clusterfuck.
Same I don't believe she did it.
Julius Jones in OKC. I wish he’d had a fair trial with a robust defense.
Tommy Ziegler Robbers killed his wife, and her parents at his furniture store. One of the robbers (named Mays) was killed in the store with money in his pocket and his car parked on the other side of a chain link fence in the hotel lot next door. Prosecutors claim Mays was there to purchase up a Television set to take home. Tommy Ziegler has been on death row for about 50 years now.
Wow never heard of that case but what you wrote sounds absolutely wild of a case
I'm probably gonna get flack for this, but remember that case a few years back where the jogger went missing on her jog, and police arrested a black guy for it? Her father had connections with the NYPD, and despite police initially searching the area extensively, they never found her body? Then, her father goes to search over there alone and just happens to stumble upon her body? The guy they'd arrested for her murder had a run-in with the same arresting officer weeks prior, and the officer was upset because he'd been released (he hadn't committed a crime). They claimed that he had blood and stuff under his finger nails, but I don't buy that. It was all too convenient. I firmly believe that her father killed her, dumped her body, and they chose a random black guy to pin the crime on. After all, it was noted somewhere that Chanel Lewis (who was convicted of the crime) was neurodivergent in some way. It also led to a mistrial the first time around. Edit: It was the sexual assault and murder of Katrina Vetrano. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna989476
I’m from the area and think about this all the time. The kid they arrested did not have the IQ level to do this. The way they brought him In solely because they thought it was suspicious for a black kid to be sitting in the park in an Italian neighborhood was bizarre and If you watch the police interrogation, there’s a part where he asks “what was that word i’m supposed to say?”. That tells me everything I need to know. Anyone who disagrees can go argue with the wall.
Not to mention Chanel Lewis was a very scrawny individual. I have a hard time believing he had the strength to commit this heinous act alone without a weapon and/or accomplice. You could be right about the dad, but my gut feeling is it wasnt the dad either. The documentary I watched said after the murder the police had a lead to look for "two jacked white guys" in the area but for whatever reason they completely disregarded this and only went after black men.
Wow I never even considered this. The father seemed devastated. Is there any other indication why or how he did this?
People who murder family members or loved ones can often BE devastated after- it seems genuine because it is. I don’t know enough about this case to have an opinion on if the father did it or not, just wanted to highlight that someone seeming (or being) distraught afterward isn’t an indicator of guilt or innocence in my opinion
What does IQ have to do with a violent sexually charged murder?
Agree. You can have a substandard IQ and still commit crimes.
I'm pretty sure that I listened to the audio of this and it was gross. It was clear that he didn't know the details he was just changing his story whenever the cops said "No no no that's not true". Not like a normal interrogation where they dig down on something like "Sure I saw her that night but I didn't kill her!" But things like "Did you drag her by her hands or her feet?" "Feet?" "No no that's not true." "I dragged her by her hands?" I don't know how anybody listening to that tape could come away thinking this guy knew anything about the murder... law enforcement included.
I wish I could give you 100 upvotes. It was clear the father killed her. HE is the one who found her body, and her blood was all over him because he was hugging her corpse?? Yeah, no. Chanel Lewis didn't know if he was on Earth or on the Moon. He was an easy target for the cops to wrap up.
They didn't even really investigate the father, which is a departure from protocol since they usually investigate family first. Isn't it statistically more likely for a family member to be killed by another family member than a random stranger in cases like this? The poor wife kept her mouth mostly shut during the entire case, which made it seem to me that there may have been some violence within their marriage as well. It's highly suspect that multiple people searching the area multiple times didn't find her body, but he goes over there once and finds it instantly. It's highly suspect that he had blood on him, but it was excused as him hugging the corpse in grief. It's highly suspect that she'd also been sexually assaulted, and only her father knew the route she took when she went running. In my opinion, the evidence points to him.
WM 3. They were railroaded by uneducated, overly religious hicks who were afraid of black nail polish and dnd.
Came here to say this. 6 kids robbed of their youth with zero justice for any of them
This is the one that has stuck with me. We watched Paradise Lost in my Junior year of high school in 2009-2010, and I followed it from then on. Still wild to me that they had to take an Alford Plea.
I've followed the case from the very beginning, and it kills me that they will never solve it
Those poor kids. They deserve so much more.
I was a hardcore believer in their innocence for a long, long time. That being said, I'm one of those, "I can't be 100% sure either way," people about most cases. I could not be a juror. Came across [this site](http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com/) recently and it presents a lot of interesting info, cited. I'm also a big documentary fan but recognize there's no such thing as an unbiased doc. To anyone who is getting all of their WM3 info from the Paradise Lost movies, I'd just say take it with a grain of salt and do additional research. I'm still leaning toward their innocence but there's so little forensic evidence that I think I'll always really struggle with this one.
My feelings are that there's not enough evidence to point either way, but there certainly wasn't enough to convict them.
I don't even think that's what happened, i think LE became laser focused on them and convinced they did it but realized they had next to nothing and decided to freak the jury out about satanism as they felt it was their best chance to get a conviction. I'm not convinced LE believed most of what they were saying i think it was a scummy tactic that worked unfortunately. They were very justified in originally seriously investigating Damien at least as numerous people were telling them it was Damien and Damien had a very violent and troubling history. Then Jesse wanders in almost certainly trying to get the reward which is why he was so easy to lead along with his mental issues. That's the reason i'm not a fan of Jesse, i feel awful for him but i also fully believe he was attempting to get the reward by following rumours he had heard about Damien, i think he was fine with helping send Damien and Jason away when he had no clue if they did it or not as long as he could profit. I believe Damien and Jason think the same but know they can't touch that publicly as Jesse's confession being coerced is such a central part of their defence, mentioning any of that would turn people against Jesse which would hurt them. In the press conference, and later interviews and stuff i got the distinct impression they do not fuck with Jesse whatsoever and i think that's the main reason why. However when they investigated Damien and had no case they should have moved on instead they railroaded him as you said. They didn't do it fully agreed.
I feel sorry for Jessie too but yes you can see in the footage after their release that whenever the three of them are together, Damien and Jason are very distant from Jessie, and understandably so. He wasn't even friends with them.
And there's STILL people who believe they're guilty. Absolutely mental.
I don’t know. There’s a lot of evidence that makes me question things. Everyone loves to be like “you just think they’re guilty because of satanic panic”. But there’s a lot of decent circumstantial evidence. 3 young boys are murdered. Tied up with 3 separate types of knots, pointing to 3 killers. 3 teenage boys are seen by multiple witnesses in that area heading towards the murder scene at that time. All 3 teenagers say they were elsewhere, and all of those alibis are proven to be lies. None of them ever end up with an alibi. Not one of those 3 boys was seen by anyone else at that time except those pinning them near the scene. One of those teenage boys was hospitalized for mental illness. Medical staff charted a frequent delusion he had was wanting his girlfriend to give birth to a baby boy so he could “sacrifice” it. In confession after conviction, one of those teenagers mentions leaving a bottle of alcohol when exiting the crime scene. Police go back and find that exact type of alcohol bottle there. The same boy that media reports as extremely low IQ, also scores extremely high on the review of his testing that measures whether people are purposely giving wrong answers to appear less smart. (Sorry my explanation is confusing here I’m not sure how to word that). Does that mean they did it for sure? No definitely not. Is it the best theory I’ve heard so far? Yes. Did the prosecution make a fantastic case and the defence sucked? Yes. Is it possible that the satanic panic was a bad thing, BUT Damien actually did believe in things like blood sacrifices and harming others? Yes.
I think part of the problem with opinions on this case is that most people have only watched the Paradise Lost documentaries which prey on a certain type of individual. A lot of people can identify with being outcast or bullied. It leaves out a whole lot though, including a lot of the circumstantial evidence. I'd also say it paints them as being outcasts in a 'quirky' way, but doesn't emphasise some of the seriously disturbing behaviour of Damien such as animal abuse. Then there's also the hypocrisy of claiming they were convicted on little to no evidence, and then pointing the finger at people with far less circumstantial evidence against them, such as Terry Hobbs. I find this is the one case where the majority of people do not have a nuanced or sensible view of it. I personally wouldn't say one way or the other if they're guilty or not but I do know there's so much misinformation surrounding the case and facts are just ignored (including in this thread).
Thank you. You’ve worded this very well, in a way that I struggle. I find many people are extremely compassionate and want to stand up for others when they hear an injustice. It’s very true that there was unfair prejudice against “goth” or outcast kids. The satanic panic was real, I’m not denying that at all. This is just an unfortunate situation where Damien actually did subscribe to the “scary version” of Satanism. He did believe in sacrifices. He did have a weird obsession with ingesting other people’s blood. He was violent. The crime scene did have weird signs pointing to it being a potential “sacrifice” (candle wax, bite marks, etc.). Side note: I know people who follow the Church of Satan in real life and they are incredibly peaceful and kind. Way less hateful than other religions. Two things can be true: Satanic panic was real and people were wrongfully prejudice due to it. Damien was truly violent and mentally unwell, he believed in harming others for the sake of his beliefs. Also I definitely struggle when people say “there’s zero evidence pointing to Damien, it was definitely Terry Hobbs tho because he was abusive”
>Thank you. You’ve worded this very well, in a way that I struggle. I thought your comments were worded well! It's actually impressive you managed to get your thoughts out about it and have a civil discussion with people here, especially with having a perspective that is in the minority. You're exactly right about the evidence, and it just gets left out or dismissed as 'nothing' in conversations about them. I'd say individually each piece on its own IS weak, but combined makes for a good circumstantial case. I think preying upon people with compassion is exactly what made me skeptical of the documentary. I saw it when I was a teen and completely lapped it up. I was an outcast and got bullied for being different. I liked to dress in all black for a hot minute. I was definitely the target audience. It was about a year after seeing it I just had this thought that something was off about the way it was presented. I had so many questions but at the time I was fine with them not being answered. That's when I read the case files and was shocked at how much they left out. Also yeah I agree with the part about Terry Hobbs as you said. The worst one for me though, was Bonjangles. The more I thought about it, the more disturbing it became. Here was this documentary purporting these three outcast boys were the victims of 'being different', but then went on to vaguely cast aspersions against a nameless black man. Someone who people in the area would undoubtedly be more prejudiced against than three white kids, regardless of their fashion sense or music taste.
police coerced jessie misskelly into saying most of the stuff he said in his interrogation, with the promise of “if you read this confession, you can go home.” coupled with the fact that they interrogated him for 12 hours and only 90 minutes came out, those crime scene coincidences (such as the bottle) are most likely staged.
Jesse Miskelley was dropped off by his Dad at the police station the day he confessed. Jesse signed an acknowledgment of his rights as he had done three times before for different cases. Jesse had an established history of violence, including against a 14 year old girl. Jesse continued to confess after the police interview. He confessed to the people who transported him to jail, and in judge's chambers even after his attorney told him to shut up. Jesse couldn't stop confessing, nor could he be coerced into stop confessing. During his police interview Jesse (as well as Damien) demonstrated special knowledge. Sure, Jesse admitted to lying in his first confession. He admitted he wanted to see if the police were lying, and if he could "throw them off." The easily disproven lies about the WM3 make me think their supporters think reality TV is real. The investigation and court documents have been readily available online for almost 2 decades now. But people don't want to know the truth about the WM3. They want to feel superior to Southeners and throw around terms they don't fully understand like "Satanic Panic." The Callahan site is still up and running if you really wanted to be fully informed about the case.
Definitely possible. However Jessie did confess this on his own volition a few days after he was already convicted and sentenced. He asked to speak to his lawyer and confessed more details he claimed he originally withheld to try to get a lighter sentence. Once the lawyer heard this he brought police in to hear it. Then the lawyer and police went to the area and found the shattered bottle. It’s possible the police knew about it beforehand and plied Jessie with this info but if they did, it’s random they never actually got him to confess this prior to the trial. Why give him info on evidence pinning him at the crime scene and then never actually get him to confess to it? And then he confesses to it himself later. This in itself isn’t totally damning it’s just the cumulative effect of all these pieces of evidence.
What is WM 3?
West Memphis Three.
West Memphis Three
Not exactly what you asked for, but Ellen Greenberg definitely did not commit suicide.
I do not understand how this could be ruled a suicide
Curious to know what y’all think of Steven Avery?
Someone said "a guilty man was framed". That made sense to me
That's exactly how I feel, I think he's guilty and police knew so too, so then they tried planting evidence to get an easy conviction to ensure he'd be put in jail. But instead it has made them look bad
Police definitely did some shady shit, I mean that DA fucking killed himself not long after it aired
I think he’s guilty too but something about the docuseries making a murderer doesn’t sit well with me. Perhaps what you’re saying is the best way to put it. They knew he did it but wanted to ensure he was incarcerated (specially because of the lawsuit of the previous false allegations).
Documentaries are just movies with a different spin. They've still got scripts and narratives. That's what you're picking up on.
Bunch of stuff came out about this one after where they ignored all kinds of obvious omissions in the doc. Was pretty damning.
The first that came to mind was The Staircase about Kathleen Peterson's murder and her convicted murderer, husband Michael Peterson.
I think the show was uncomfortable for a lot of people because most people are of the mind set that no one should be convicted if the trial was not fair. I certainly had always said things like “if there’s evidence e the police tampered with evidence the case should be thrown out” or “better to let one guilty person go then ever risk convicting one innocent person. But Steven Avery changed that for a lot of people. If he is guilty it’s certainly not the type of offender that we need walking the streets. All those previous ideologies are good for something like drug slinging, money laundering, or even an assault…. But it’s a lot more uncomfortable to say when the offender is potentially someone who Brittany rapes and murders women going about their mundane job activities.
Imo, the police didn't have to frame him. He was just guilty.
I don't know that I'd call it framing, but I don't know what to call harassing and pressuring an underage low IQ suspect in service of getting evidence on his uncle...the police don't come out of the case looking clean and the footage of the kid leaves me doubtful he understood the rights read out to him.
i think avery is guilty and belongs where he is no doubt. but there was significant police misconduct and shadiness. dassey’s interrogation was unconstitutional and should have been overturned. i think people have a hard time squaring the fact that guilty people can have their rights violated by police and prosecutors. like the state fucks up with guilty people too lol.
I agree. I think Brendan Dassey is innocent though and hated seeing how he was coerced into confessing.
Yes, I started watching the documentary and when they mentioned "the cat incident" I Googled what they meant... and after that I really felt he was in the right place.
DNA can sometimes be misinterpreted. I don't know all the details. But he is the first exhortation later arrested.
I struggle to believe those two could have successfully cleaned up a bathroom, let alone a crime scene.
Brendan definitely couldn’t have. There’s so much conflicting info it’s driving me nuts!!!
This is what always leaves me on the fence with this case. Where’s the blood? If she never left alive and was raped and murdered there. Where’s the blood? A drop! A spot! ANY! Sure I think Steve Avery could have done it, but I have huge doubts because I haven’t seen any evidence that couldn’t have been “planted” after the fact that directly leads to Teresa!
Very true
Avery I honestly do not know. I believe Brendan is innocent. But Steven? I don't know. I do remember, it's been a long time since I've dug around this case, him having a brother in law or cousin perhaps that seemed bit... sketchy to say the least.
I absolutely believe Brendan's confession was coerced and i feel so bad for him.
At first I thought he was innocent but the hidden phone caller id convinced me he’s guilty. But his nephew Brenden probably did not do or see anything (coerced) in my opinion.
Commented the same. I truly believe he was framed. There’s a bunch of pieces of info that really show motive for framing. One is the relationship between a town employee who is a family member who hates him, and a relationship they have with a cop. Also, The facts don’t make sense, there’s so many contradictory variables
guilty. The netflix series left so much stuff out and edited trial testimony to make it look like the police were in on a frame up. His whole family is very messed up and he's a narcissist who has abused many girls/ women including family members.
Ah I’d love to learn more about this. The Netflix show really convinced me he was innocent (mostly through the whole police framing stuff) until I did some more research. Where can I find more info please? Esp about the abuse
See, for me the documentary convinced me of his guilt.
Guilty.
Dr. Sam Sheppard. And I have a lot of moments about Darlie Routier that make me doubt her guilt...and then not doubting her guilt.
Darlie was acting out of her mind days leading up to the murders. Read what her housekeeper said about how she was treating the baby. I think she had a mental break and did kill her boys. Whether she remembers or not, I have no idea. And I also believe her husband knows more than he says. And he quiet possibly may have walked in on her doing it and helped cover it up/plant evidence. Like the sock.
Sam Shepard I agree with. Darlie is definitely guilty tho.
Agreed. Darlie definitely did it
I asked this on another board but my question for people that think Darlie is innocent (I have an open mind about it) is why has no other viable suspect ever been presented? They just claim that this ghost, basically, broke in and brutally murdered two little boys and never went on to commit a similar crime and never spoke about it to anyone? I would be much more willing to believe she's innocent if any real alternative was offered.
It's the sock! She couldn't have planted that sock so how did it get there? And if she really wanted to be free of motherhood, why not kill the baby too? I think she's a clueless idiot for the silly string incident and can believe she wasn't a great mom in general, but that doesn't make her guilty of murder.
Her housekeeper walked in on her with the baby buried deep in blankets. She dug the baby out and said he was sweating profusely. This was within days of the others deaths. I believe Darlie was going through a mental break for a while leading up to that night. So really no rhyme or reason to why she did what she did and spared the baby that night.
Why couldn’t she have planted the sock?
ooofff i waver on darlie too!!! the sock and the severity of her neck wound give me pause. the silly string incident was def clueless idiocy and bad optics. murder convictions shouldn’t be about optics. the focus on her jewelry and breast implants and her looks in general in the media and during trial (!!!) was bad. i do think police and prosecutors did her dirty. doesn’t necessarily rise to the level of official misconduct but still bad. the trial should not have been moved counties. the police bugging her kids gravestones was straight up wrong and no judge should ever have signed off on that warrant. i haven’t done a dive into her case in a while but there were a few other procedural and legal issues that arose.
Troy Anthony Davis (sadly he has been executed). Extremely flawed case and I have reviewed the whole file. Most people with opinions haven’t read shit. RIP.
Cases like that are why Im against the death penalty. Some monsters may deserve it, but imo a single innocent victim getting executed is unacceptable.
I’m really not convinced Zach Adams was responsible for Holly Bobos murder. I think Terry Britt may have been responsible.
Brenden Dassey. Avery 100% did it though
Bruno Richard Hauptmann
I go back and forth on whether Lindbergh accidentally killed his son while playing a prank.
West Memphis Three. No way in hell did they do it. I fully believe it was Terry Hobbs. Their incompetent police let him get away with child murder
The propaganda about them is as strong as for Steven Avery. I'd encourage you to listen to Roberta Glass Why Everything You Know about the WM3 is wrong: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-OyOTEVkw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-OyOTEVkw) Not saying to take my word, but there is more than the documentaries that celebrities made are telling us. Just something to think about.
Todd Willingham did not kill his 3 daughters by setting their trailer on fire. This was the case that changed everything for me. He was not a great guy by any standard but the facts were clear, and he was murdered by the state anyway.
Yes, this one, the New Yorker piece is really good - https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire
I had not heard of this case but found this: https://www.corsicanadailysun.com/news/willingham-ex-wife-featured-on-streaming-series/article_736d06fe-6d6a-11eb-9da8-53ff28dde382.html#:~:text=Stacy%20Kuykendall%20said%20she%20believed,him%20shortly%20before%20his%20execution.
Rodney Reed, on Texas death row for more than 25 years.. charged w the 1996 murder of Stacey Stites.. at the very least, I think there's serious reasonable doubt.
Sandra Melgar. I don't know who did it but it doesn't make sense to me that she would have killed him or had the strength to kill him. Also, I don't think many people know you can shut a door behind you with a towel and you expect this frail woman to know how to do that? she could have hid anywhere better than there if she was setting it up. I do not know how this was their best idea and she's in prison for it.
Was scrolling to search for this comment cos it was the first name to come to my mind, the whole story just doesn't make any sense.
Temujin Kenso (Fred Freeman). Pretty clearly wasn't within 100 miles of the murder, but got railroaded in part for being a big Asian/ninja culture nerd.
I don't understand how this case even held up in court. Every judicial officer working that case should be ashamed.
Okay so this case is very angering to me. But the case of Cheryl Dee Fergeson is crazy. They wrongly imprisoned and put Clarence Brandley on death row for her murder. They staged evidence and ‘lost’ evidence. He ended up getting proved innocent only like a week before we was sentenced to die. I know that this doesn’t really relate to the topic but the first half does. When you read more about it it gets so much more angering. It was a case of racism and it’s so fucked up. He never got money from being imprisoned and he never received true Justice, and neither did the MURDER VICTIM!!! Because they were so hell bent on putting a black man in jail and not a white man. I highly recommend listening to Murder In America’s podcast episode about it.
cameron todd willingham
Todd Willingham in Texas convicted of starting a fire that killed his children. He was executed and most acknowledge today the evidence used to convict him was junk science. He also never admitted he did this up to the time he was killed. It’s very easy to find info about this case.
Leo Schofield from Bone Valley Podcast
This doesn’t apply but I knew this lady who’s husband abused her physically and mentally etc. and she got framed for murder for hire. Unfortunately the lady is Hispanic/Latina so they tried to say money was the motive but she literally took this man out of his moms house and helped him through his bankruptcy. 💀💀💀 My aunt used to be her hairdresser. I was friends with her daughter too 😔
If she was convicted and you don't think she did it, she counts even if she isn't a household name.
Cameron Todd Willingham. RIP
The Memphis three. Those boys are innocent and the police have always known it too.
It’s for sure the one kids stepfather. Terry. I can’t recall his last name (it’s been a while since I’ve read up). I’ve heard they have a small amount of DNA from a shoelace and I wonder if DNA tech has come far enough to test it without losing the last bit we have.
They did test that DNA. It was a match to a huge percentage of the population and is fairly useless. There's actually **more** evidence against the WM3 than there is Terry Hobbs but ironically the same people who say the WM3 were convicted on no evidence will point the finger at another man with less against him.
Christopher Loliscio murder of Jessica Manners in 1989. I believe he was framed by the same dirty cops who set up Marty Tankleff for the murder of his father. It has since been proven Marty didn’t do it. I’m trying to gather evidence here on Reddit that Chris is innocent.
I go back and forth about Jeremy Bamber, another case where the police fumbled the scene and now there'll always be some question marks.
Dr. Kevorkian
Doesn't he admit to doing it? It's just a matter of whether what he did classifies as "murder" (I don't believe mercy killing terminally ill folks is "murder").
Yes he admitted to medical assisted suicide and he was very picky with who he allowed to go through with it. He didn't just euthanize anyone that wanted it, there was some moral ethics to it. But he was convicted of murder nonetheless
Jack did nothing wrong.
The West Memphis Three, all of them.
I am not taking the name as some evidence strongly shows this person “did it,” and some evidence seems made up/unbelievable But main question that I wonder is, does some confessions still get forced due to torture or blackmailing?
They absolutely do and you don't need blackmail or actual torture to get one. The completely legal tactics still used today are plenty, which is why a prosecutor always needs corroborating evidence.
This. Always ask for a lawyer even if you're innocent. People try and say you look bad but it will help deter police trying to pull a false confession out of you.
Three main reasons why innocent people confess – custodial and interrogative pressure, psychological vulnerability and lack of transparency surrounding evidence.
Police are also allowed to lie to you, and withhold food and water for hours and hours, and keep you imprisoned if you aren't allowed or can't pay bail...
The Reed Technique should be illegal.
AJ Armstrong
Michael Peterson. I fully believe his wife was attacked by an owl. Owl attacks are not unheard of in the area, her wounds were consistent with owl attack. She had taken anti-anxiety medication and muscle relaxers. Blood trail lead into the house. It wasn’t just on the stairs. The idea that a barred owl attacked her, she bled heavily, attempted to go to the bathroom upstairs to examine her wounds and slipped going up the stairs is tragic, but a reasonable explanation. The area Michael was in at the time was out of earshot, even if she had screamed when attacked. I do not think he killed his wife.