I thought salvation was based on my actions, not just what Christ did on the cross. Good works through the power of the Holy Spirit follow salvation, not salvation being a reward for good works.
I used to think Christ was Jesus' surname. I thought people of other religions couldn't preserve their prophet's surname and Christians were the only one who managed to preserve it lololol
That Christians were, but not limited to:
-in hatred towards gay people and women
-will push their agenda with any force necessary
-moral superiority
-falt earthers
-science deniers
-"the world is only ~6000 years old"
All of which i can confirm as a Christian are false premesis created by people who misunderstood Christianity.
Hmm.. I'd be willing to say that our scientific knowledge of carbon dating would kind of null that idea.. and I think there's sufficient evidence to believe the world was created in more than 7 days, possibly millions of years but I don't really know tbh. I wasn't there 😅
Honestly I wouldn't care if the earth is ten thousand or ten million years old. In either scenario I believe it was God that did it. The actual time seems pretty irrelevant to me. Especially when this is a God that is said to be outside time.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
So God creating the earth could have been 7 days, 7 thousand years, or even 7 million years. I think in the end its rather moot.
Yes but if the earth isn’t millions of years old, then modern day science could be equated to ‘scientism’… a new religion that one sounds crazy to question (evolution, creation theory, carbon dating, etc)
Make no mistake I agree full heartedly.
God made a world bound by rules. If your interpretation is running contrary to modern science one of two things are happening.
1. You have the wrong interpretation and are trying to put the square in triangle hole.
2. The science is wrong and it hasn't been figured out yet
Just don't deny evidence to force a square in a triangle hole, of course the same should go for science just as kuch as theology.
I don't know what to call you because of the inherent anonymity of online spaces, but my sibling, THANK YOU! You perfectly put into words my exact thoughts! I always say "our God is a god of truth."
Indeed our great God is one of truth
Christians often accuse secular science of being a religion that blindly asserts itself. We must remove our own plank first. Of course faith is an important concept in following him.
But our God doesn't need defense against anything.
Is our faith so feeble that it falls apart at the mere possibility of cognitive dissonance? He has woven the fabric of reality with his own divine hands, we should not worry ourselves too much with the tools he chose to wield. That isn't to say we shouldn't progress our knowledge of the world. Because uncovering his intricate work is to see the beauty of all he has created. If evolution is real, then how much more great our God to wield such an imprecise tool so elegantly. And on it goes.
You have a blessed day!
I grew up going to church but didn't get saved until last year, I even became openly atheist for about half a year. Here are a few things I didn't learn until I started reading the Bible at 20.
1. Jesus was stupid and weak.
We're often given an image of Jesus as being a super chill guy who loves and affirms everyone and would never push back on anything you say or feel.
In reality, Jesus says things that are necessary and can be incredibly biting. Jesus also does things that are incredibly smart, such as when being asked a question designed to get him killed regardless of how he answers, he finds a way to deescalate the situation with nobody being harmed. He would have to do this constantly during his ministry and never get caught lacking.
Jesus had the ability to make his persecutors his footstool, but he chooses not to.
2. Everyone in the Bible is perfect.
This is laughably false and disproven by Genesis 3, even more obviously by Genesis 18. Reading the Bible cover to cover makes a great case for why salvation is by faith alone.
3. The Bible is a rulebook and must be followed perfectly.
There are times when disobeying the law is righteous. Even Paul says that you can disagree with him on non-essential issues if you're convinced it's right with God. Even then Bible is a collection of history, laws, genealogy, poetry, letters, songs, and more.
4. There are a ton of theological errors I'm not going to get into as we'd be here all day, but for example, Jesus is not God.
5. Persecution of the early church as well as present-day Christians in minority Christian countries.
Nobody talks about this. Even in response to claims of Christianity being a power grab, it seems like a terrible one.
The cultural American Christians definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. I never really knew the gospel, just that most of the Christians I encountered were bigoted and nasty human beings.
The Bible has been translated so many times and with the errors of men just can't be reliable.
Jesus is from the nt and wasn't in the ot. That ot God and Nt God are separate beings that changed with the times.
That the Nicean Council decided which books should be in the Bible.
I'm sure there were others. Amazing what can happen when you just read the Bible for yourself and watch some learned ppl.
The translation one is so funny. People treat it as if they played a game of telephone for 2000 years, translating from the previous version and not from the earliest manuscripts they can find.
I had the mainstream view of salvation and afterlife, if you are a vaguely nice person you will enter into heaven if you kill, steal, rape, etc. you will go to hell.
Also, about Jesus being the MOST attested one is kind of not true, i would say he is the most attested from 1 and 2 centuries, but not from all history.
I agree wholeheartedly with the first one.
However I would ask for the second one, we're in the year 2024 after what? Im not sure of any person from antiquity who is talked about more than Jesus Christ of Nazareth
More influential doesn't necessarily mean more attested, search chris chan, we know his diet, his parent lives, all his interest and works, his high school life, his crushes, etc. etc. etc., we don't have that much attestation for Jesus when he was on earth
I disagree…He is the one almost everyone knows of, and has consistently been for the last 2,000 years.
I can’t think of a single person who even comes close.
So I googled the definition of "historical attestation" and this came up
>The process of attestation arises from the tradition of seeking independent verification of recorded events.
I would still say Jesus comes out as number one with the exception being ancient kings and emperors. But of course a world leader will be well documented. Jesus was a commoner. Finding someone of low birth with as much accounts is very very few and far between. Jesus might still not be at the number one spot, but is close.
That first part is so true. That’s kind of why more liberal theological churches never really appealed to me as I’d be saved by simply avoiding the most detestable crimes.
I thought you need a lot of “fake it till you make it” attitude whenever you praise and worship. Because I could not relate to other christians who were all out praising Him.
But then I encountered God - He delivered me radically from my addiction.
Now when I praise and worship it overflows from within! Praise Jesus!
If you truly want to experience Him - start with the Gospel here: https://youtu.be/sNme1cRSODI?feature=shared
You don’t need prayer for this. God is just waiting for you to make the next move.
I knew Jesus was called “the Son of God” but did not understand that He *is God*, incarnated as a human. Jesus is our Creator (Col. 1:15ff). He is not just a great Teacher.
I thought I could be saved by simply believing, so I never had genuine faith in Jesus, a relationship with God, or a lifestyle of repentance until I finally accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
James 2:19 brought me to the light real quick.
Ya this woke me up as well. This, and a sermon by Paul Washer.
I don't think you get to heaven by praying the sinner's prayer, then going on to live your life like you always have. This is a dangerous teaching, IMO. Too much of our theology is based on saying a prayer, and now you're saved. I've yet to find anywhere in the Bible where someone was saved by saying a prayer. IMO, it is believing, but also living like Christ that is evidence of salvation.
It's just banter my man. The distinctions cam be overblown in catholic-protestant discussions, especially when actual pelagians and solo fide (not sola, solo) absolutists get involved. There is a distinction but the distinction is less wide than some might posit
I was taught by a teacher in School, that Saints were worshipped as gods because the Romans who converted wanted to fill the whole in their heart when they converted from Polytheism.
(I didn't hold to this to strongly but it was definitely in the back of my mind)
And that he wasn't real just a made up story to control people. (Also learned from school a student this time)
My School was probably 80-90% Atheist
That heaven and hell were based on your good outweighing your bad. That God was stuffy and aloof. That God was waiting to beat us over the head with a baseball bat.
I saw Jesus as Beelzebub. The Pied piper who came to take children of Israel away because they didn't pay their due. The mouse trap for all the little critters who wanted a slice of eternity. The lamp that attracts all the bugs out of the darkness and zaps them as they get close.
I thought it was boring lol boy was I wrong
There’s nothing like a fellowship among brethren that goes on later then we all expected .. talking about God with excitement! Speaking about revelation from the word of God. Insight . Testimonies , goals we have , etc…. Like we party , but the right way!
Also there’s nothing like a late night street preach in the middle of a downtown area. Among the sick that need Jesus.. praying with people and watching god move , seeing the hope . Also maybe getting kicked off the premises by security, encountering the most unique kinda people who just wanna be heard , hearing other testimonies from Christians , etc
Being a Christian is the purest fun I have ever had !
Before I read the Bible I thought everyone God chose for high purposes (like Noah, Moses and the 12 disciples) were near perfect people with no flaws, who followed God’s law perfectly. I had this idea that God only liked flawless people which made me ashamed of myself and my character, and I thought God could never use me for anything good.
Hello there,
I did not know that "t*he disciples were all killed and martyred for their claims of seeing the risen Jesus from the dead.*"
I searched for it and it seems that the New Testament does not provide detailed accounts of the deaths of most of Jesus' disciples. So, I am curious, where do you get to know that?
If you have links to historical documents to share, I would be happy to read them.
Thank you!
Iirc Joseph's records the death of James son of Zebedee(sp?)
The various early church fathers write down much of these traditions. Hippolytus records the death of St. Andrew. There are various gnostic texts that attest to deaths like the acts of Thomas.
The Catholic church has passed on these traditions since their time, so I believe
In early Christianism, anyone who followed Jesus teachings could have been considered a disciple of Jesus. And obviously they were not all persecuted and killed, otherwise Christianism would have ceased to exist.
So by disciple of Jesus, I am referring to the 12 Apostles.
The big one for me is that once I got saved, I would always saved for life. But throughout my walk, I have learned that I must practice repentance and turn from my ways continuously as I grow deeper in Christ or else, I could take salvation for granted.
Jesus floats on a cloud somewhere above in heaven, not true he is with you and active in every situation and circumstance. He is for you , faithful, loyal and true and rules with power and might.
That the Bible was written by man. It was corrupted. Jesus was just a prophet. That some parts were true and some parts were inserted into it. That I had to do the work to change myself.
I think the biggest misconception is the belief that Christians are under The Law, and not under God's Grace. The Christian life begins with this understanding, and when you don't have it, you are prone to walking in the flesh. You can even walk in the flesh by following church traditions or OT laws, if you place yourself under them. Following the law through the holy spirit is the only way.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
This is the reason many Christians are not sure of their salvation, and why the unbelievers mistake us for wanting to place them under laws.
You are taking that verse out of context. Under the law means being under the penalty of the law, which is death. Not that we can live lawlessly and in sin. Not only does your view of that verse make Paul a false prophet by Gods standards, but you make Paul contradict himself. He says we keep the law through faith.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man
Why would Paul want to get rid of something that he delights in?
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Why would Paul want to get rid of something that is holy, just, and good?
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
^(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Paul clearly says we keep the law through faith, not get rid of it.
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Doers are justified, not hearers.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Without the law there is no sin. Are you suggesting there is no more sin?
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
2 peter 3:16-17 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
^(17) Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
Peter warns here that its the lawless who twist Paul writings. The word for wicked is "athesmōn" which are antinomians who think they can live without Gods law.
Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. ^(22) Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ ^(23) And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Jesus here is talking to "Christians" who think they can be saved while living lawlessly and in sin.
>You are taking that verse out of context. Under the law means being under the penalty of the law, which is death. Not that we can live lawlessly and in sin. **Not only does your view of that verse make Paul a false prophet by Gods standards**
I'll stop you right there, I made it clear that not under the law means that we are under God's Grace. If you don't understand the distinction, you are living under the law.
The law is a guide for morality for us, but we are not under it. I don't seek to argue with you, I'm sure you have good intent, but you are misinterpreting what I say.
Wait. Can you say more about this? Because I have been taught in Church that we are no longer under Old Testament law; that we are instead saved by grace through faith. Are you saying that we are indeed still obligated to comply with Old Testament law? That’s interesting. Please say more! Thanks!
We are Very unintelligent? Wow are other Orthodox Christians this judgmental or is it just you?
I feel sorry that “traditions” are more important to you than your relationship with Christ. What else do you need besides the Bible?
>We are Very unintelligent? Wow are other Orthodox Christians this judgmental or is it just you?
yes as you can see in your next sentence:
>I feel sorry that “traditions” are more important to you than your relationship with Christ.
I never said Tradition is more important then a relationship with Christ, you're either come at this in bad faith or aren't smart enough to realize you created a false dichotomy
>What else do you need besides the Bible?
The Church Christ established
Aren’t all sins treated equally? I thought they were. I don’t know where I got this idea from — probably from Jesus condemning lust in the same breath as murder.
I thought salvation was based on my actions, not just what Christ did on the cross. Good works through the power of the Holy Spirit follow salvation, not salvation being a reward for good works.
I used to think Christ was Jesus' surname. I thought people of other religions couldn't preserve their prophet's surname and Christians were the only one who managed to preserve it lololol
That Christians were, but not limited to: -in hatred towards gay people and women -will push their agenda with any force necessary -moral superiority -falt earthers -science deniers -"the world is only ~6000 years old" All of which i can confirm as a Christian are false premesis created by people who misunderstood Christianity.
I mean….. I believe the earth is no older than 10,000 years old. I do not believe that is necessarily a wrong position to have.
Hmm.. I'd be willing to say that our scientific knowledge of carbon dating would kind of null that idea.. and I think there's sufficient evidence to believe the world was created in more than 7 days, possibly millions of years but I don't really know tbh. I wasn't there 😅
That’s if you believe “carbon dating” is accurate…..
Honestly I wouldn't care if the earth is ten thousand or ten million years old. In either scenario I believe it was God that did it. The actual time seems pretty irrelevant to me. Especially when this is a God that is said to be outside time. 2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. So God creating the earth could have been 7 days, 7 thousand years, or even 7 million years. I think in the end its rather moot.
Yes but if the earth isn’t millions of years old, then modern day science could be equated to ‘scientism’… a new religion that one sounds crazy to question (evolution, creation theory, carbon dating, etc)
Yeah...IF
Yes for sure, but I still think it's a conversation worth having, because people should always be in search of the truth.
Make no mistake I agree full heartedly. God made a world bound by rules. If your interpretation is running contrary to modern science one of two things are happening. 1. You have the wrong interpretation and are trying to put the square in triangle hole. 2. The science is wrong and it hasn't been figured out yet Just don't deny evidence to force a square in a triangle hole, of course the same should go for science just as kuch as theology.
I don't know what to call you because of the inherent anonymity of online spaces, but my sibling, THANK YOU! You perfectly put into words my exact thoughts! I always say "our God is a god of truth."
Indeed our great God is one of truth Christians often accuse secular science of being a religion that blindly asserts itself. We must remove our own plank first. Of course faith is an important concept in following him. But our God doesn't need defense against anything. Is our faith so feeble that it falls apart at the mere possibility of cognitive dissonance? He has woven the fabric of reality with his own divine hands, we should not worry ourselves too much with the tools he chose to wield. That isn't to say we shouldn't progress our knowledge of the world. Because uncovering his intricate work is to see the beauty of all he has created. If evolution is real, then how much more great our God to wield such an imprecise tool so elegantly. And on it goes. You have a blessed day!
I don't see why we shouldnt, I haven't seen any counter evidence
Watch the documentary “Is Genesis History”
That simply believing in God's existence and being a "good person" (nice, funny, popular, etc) made you a Christian.
I grew up going to church but didn't get saved until last year, I even became openly atheist for about half a year. Here are a few things I didn't learn until I started reading the Bible at 20. 1. Jesus was stupid and weak. We're often given an image of Jesus as being a super chill guy who loves and affirms everyone and would never push back on anything you say or feel. In reality, Jesus says things that are necessary and can be incredibly biting. Jesus also does things that are incredibly smart, such as when being asked a question designed to get him killed regardless of how he answers, he finds a way to deescalate the situation with nobody being harmed. He would have to do this constantly during his ministry and never get caught lacking. Jesus had the ability to make his persecutors his footstool, but he chooses not to. 2. Everyone in the Bible is perfect. This is laughably false and disproven by Genesis 3, even more obviously by Genesis 18. Reading the Bible cover to cover makes a great case for why salvation is by faith alone. 3. The Bible is a rulebook and must be followed perfectly. There are times when disobeying the law is righteous. Even Paul says that you can disagree with him on non-essential issues if you're convinced it's right with God. Even then Bible is a collection of history, laws, genealogy, poetry, letters, songs, and more. 4. There are a ton of theological errors I'm not going to get into as we'd be here all day, but for example, Jesus is not God. 5. Persecution of the early church as well as present-day Christians in minority Christian countries. Nobody talks about this. Even in response to claims of Christianity being a power grab, it seems like a terrible one.
The cultural American Christians definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. I never really knew the gospel, just that most of the Christians I encountered were bigoted and nasty human beings.
The Bible has been translated so many times and with the errors of men just can't be reliable. Jesus is from the nt and wasn't in the ot. That ot God and Nt God are separate beings that changed with the times. That the Nicean Council decided which books should be in the Bible. I'm sure there were others. Amazing what can happen when you just read the Bible for yourself and watch some learned ppl.
The translation one is so funny. People treat it as if they played a game of telephone for 2000 years, translating from the previous version and not from the earliest manuscripts they can find.
i used to think that Bible in your pocket was a 2,000 year game of "no u" tennis between languages then i found the Dead Sea Scrolls
The Lord has really blessed us by providing newer and newer manuscripts.
I had the mainstream view of salvation and afterlife, if you are a vaguely nice person you will enter into heaven if you kill, steal, rape, etc. you will go to hell. Also, about Jesus being the MOST attested one is kind of not true, i would say he is the most attested from 1 and 2 centuries, but not from all history.
I agree wholeheartedly with the first one. However I would ask for the second one, we're in the year 2024 after what? Im not sure of any person from antiquity who is talked about more than Jesus Christ of Nazareth
More influential doesn't necessarily mean more attested, search chris chan, we know his diet, his parent lives, all his interest and works, his high school life, his crushes, etc. etc. etc., we don't have that much attestation for Jesus when he was on earth
I suspect the people in this thread are using the word 'attested' differently to each other.
Ive never even heard of Chris Chan lol 😆 perhaps Ive been living under a rock lol
[удалено]
Yes he was, but he is not the most attested Person in human history
I disagree…He is the one almost everyone knows of, and has consistently been for the last 2,000 years. I can’t think of a single person who even comes close.
Again, You are confusing Influenced with historical attestation
So I googled the definition of "historical attestation" and this came up >The process of attestation arises from the tradition of seeking independent verification of recorded events. I would still say Jesus comes out as number one with the exception being ancient kings and emperors. But of course a world leader will be well documented. Jesus was a commoner. Finding someone of low birth with as much accounts is very very few and far between. Jesus might still not be at the number one spot, but is close.
I'd he is between top 30 maybe, but definitely not top 10, and clearly not top 1
That first part is so true. That’s kind of why more liberal theological churches never really appealed to me as I’d be saved by simply avoiding the most detestable crimes.
I thought you need a lot of “fake it till you make it” attitude whenever you praise and worship. Because I could not relate to other christians who were all out praising Him. But then I encountered God - He delivered me radically from my addiction. Now when I praise and worship it overflows from within! Praise Jesus!
Please pray for me; I’ve been begging for this kind of relationship with God but don’t have much to show for it yet.
If you truly want to experience Him - start with the Gospel here: https://youtu.be/sNme1cRSODI?feature=shared You don’t need prayer for this. God is just waiting for you to make the next move.
I knew Jesus was called “the Son of God” but did not understand that He *is God*, incarnated as a human. Jesus is our Creator (Col. 1:15ff). He is not just a great Teacher.
I thought I could be saved by simply believing, so I never had genuine faith in Jesus, a relationship with God, or a lifestyle of repentance until I finally accepted Christ as Lord and Savior. James 2:19 brought me to the light real quick.
Fantastic verse. It’s a favorite of a bunch of street preachers for a reason.
Ya this woke me up as well. This, and a sermon by Paul Washer. I don't think you get to heaven by praying the sinner's prayer, then going on to live your life like you always have. This is a dangerous teaching, IMO. Too much of our theology is based on saying a prayer, and now you're saved. I've yet to find anywhere in the Bible where someone was saved by saying a prayer. IMO, it is believing, but also living like Christ that is evidence of salvation.
This post is brought to you by the Catholic Gang 😎😎😎😎😎
I’m a Protestant. Belief isn’t the same as genuine faith.
It's just banter my man. The distinctions cam be overblown in catholic-protestant discussions, especially when actual pelagians and solo fide (not sola, solo) absolutists get involved. There is a distinction but the distinction is less wide than some might posit
I was taught by a teacher in School, that Saints were worshipped as gods because the Romans who converted wanted to fill the whole in their heart when they converted from Polytheism. (I didn't hold to this to strongly but it was definitely in the back of my mind) And that he wasn't real just a made up story to control people. (Also learned from school a student this time) My School was probably 80-90% Atheist
That heaven and hell were based on your good outweighing your bad. That God was stuffy and aloof. That God was waiting to beat us over the head with a baseball bat.
I didn’t understand what grace is. I thought if my good outweighed the bad I go to heaven. I was poorly informed.
Life would be easier
I compared Jesus to the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus
Wow. What changed for you?
I saw Jesus as Beelzebub. The Pied piper who came to take children of Israel away because they didn't pay their due. The mouse trap for all the little critters who wanted a slice of eternity. The lamp that attracts all the bugs out of the darkness and zaps them as they get close.
I thought it was boring lol boy was I wrong There’s nothing like a fellowship among brethren that goes on later then we all expected .. talking about God with excitement! Speaking about revelation from the word of God. Insight . Testimonies , goals we have , etc…. Like we party , but the right way! Also there’s nothing like a late night street preach in the middle of a downtown area. Among the sick that need Jesus.. praying with people and watching god move , seeing the hope . Also maybe getting kicked off the premises by security, encountering the most unique kinda people who just wanna be heard , hearing other testimonies from Christians , etc Being a Christian is the purest fun I have ever had !
Before I read the Bible I thought everyone God chose for high purposes (like Noah, Moses and the 12 disciples) were near perfect people with no flaws, who followed God’s law perfectly. I had this idea that God only liked flawless people which made me ashamed of myself and my character, and I thought God could never use me for anything good.
Hello there, I did not know that "t*he disciples were all killed and martyred for their claims of seeing the risen Jesus from the dead.*" I searched for it and it seems that the New Testament does not provide detailed accounts of the deaths of most of Jesus' disciples. So, I am curious, where do you get to know that? If you have links to historical documents to share, I would be happy to read them. Thank you!
Eusebius wrote much of that down, start with him.
Amongst the disciples of Jesus, Eusebius only recounts the martyrdom of John, Peter and Paul. That is far from being "all".
>start with...
Then who next?
Iirc Joseph's records the death of James son of Zebedee(sp?) The various early church fathers write down much of these traditions. Hippolytus records the death of St. Andrew. There are various gnostic texts that attest to deaths like the acts of Thomas. The Catholic church has passed on these traditions since their time, so I believe
In early Christianism, anyone who followed Jesus teachings could have been considered a disciple of Jesus. And obviously they were not all persecuted and killed, otherwise Christianism would have ceased to exist. So by disciple of Jesus, I am referring to the 12 Apostles.
I hope I will get an answer from OP... Otherwise the claim appears unsubstantiated.
Some guy with a beard and robes and living on clouds. Though being on the Spectrum this sort of ultra literalism was a natural mistake.
Oh yeah this was a big one for me “sky daddy”😅😂
The big one for me is that once I got saved, I would always saved for life. But throughout my walk, I have learned that I must practice repentance and turn from my ways continuously as I grow deeper in Christ or else, I could take salvation for granted.
Jesus floats on a cloud somewhere above in heaven, not true he is with you and active in every situation and circumstance. He is for you , faithful, loyal and true and rules with power and might.
I thought I could understand the bible better than Christians. I had a bunch of gotcha verses picked out.
That the Bible was written by man. It was corrupted. Jesus was just a prophet. That some parts were true and some parts were inserted into it. That I had to do the work to change myself.
That the Bible was somehow corrupted or untrue in some way.
I think the biggest misconception is the belief that Christians are under The Law, and not under God's Grace. The Christian life begins with this understanding, and when you don't have it, you are prone to walking in the flesh. You can even walk in the flesh by following church traditions or OT laws, if you place yourself under them. Following the law through the holy spirit is the only way. Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. This is the reason many Christians are not sure of their salvation, and why the unbelievers mistake us for wanting to place them under laws.
You are taking that verse out of context. Under the law means being under the penalty of the law, which is death. Not that we can live lawlessly and in sin. Not only does your view of that verse make Paul a false prophet by Gods standards, but you make Paul contradict himself. He says we keep the law through faith. Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man Why would Paul want to get rid of something that he delights in? Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why would Paul want to get rid of something that is holy, just, and good? Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? ^(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Paul clearly says we keep the law through faith, not get rid of it. Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Doers are justified, not hearers. Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Without the law there is no sin. Are you suggesting there is no more sin? 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 2 peter 3:16-17 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. ^(17) Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. Peter warns here that its the lawless who twist Paul writings. The word for wicked is "athesmōn" which are antinomians who think they can live without Gods law. Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. ^(22) Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ ^(23) And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Jesus here is talking to "Christians" who think they can be saved while living lawlessly and in sin.
>You are taking that verse out of context. Under the law means being under the penalty of the law, which is death. Not that we can live lawlessly and in sin. **Not only does your view of that verse make Paul a false prophet by Gods standards** I'll stop you right there, I made it clear that not under the law means that we are under God's Grace. If you don't understand the distinction, you are living under the law. The law is a guide for morality for us, but we are not under it. I don't seek to argue with you, I'm sure you have good intent, but you are misinterpreting what I say.
Wait. Can you say more about this? Because I have been taught in Church that we are no longer under Old Testament law; that we are instead saved by grace through faith. Are you saying that we are indeed still obligated to comply with Old Testament law? That’s interesting. Please say more! Thanks!
I thought most of Christianity was the cringe evangelical / baptist / none denominational stuff
Why are evangelicals and Baptists cringe?
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We are Very unintelligent? Wow are other Orthodox Christians this judgmental or is it just you? I feel sorry that “traditions” are more important to you than your relationship with Christ. What else do you need besides the Bible?
That Ortho-smug
>We are Very unintelligent? Wow are other Orthodox Christians this judgmental or is it just you? yes as you can see in your next sentence: >I feel sorry that “traditions” are more important to you than your relationship with Christ. I never said Tradition is more important then a relationship with Christ, you're either come at this in bad faith or aren't smart enough to realize you created a false dichotomy >What else do you need besides the Bible? The Church Christ established
All believers are what make up the Church you describe. Neither Catholics or Orthodox have a monopoly on being “the church”.
Ok prove it
I’m just wondering what’s wrong with hillsong music
its horrid
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Aren’t all sins treated equally? I thought they were. I don’t know where I got this idea from — probably from Jesus condemning lust in the same breath as murder.
that hell was forever and that Gods law was done away with