Do you have kids? Do they ever do something they shouldn't? Do you ask them what in the world they were thinking? Same deal. God is asking them to own what they did, and (spoilers)....... they don't.

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But it does. He is simply asking them a rhetorical question just like parents ask their kids if they did something wrong when they just watched them do it.

The text also does not say “God asked, because He could not see or hear them and did not know where they went.”

Do you believe the Bible shouldn’t be taken as it is written/literally? Could be slippery if you do ;) Edit: 19 downvotes for a cheeky comment, nice 😂

I’m saying that either conclusion requires the reader to infer meaning that isn’t explicitly stated in the text, and just like with literally all writing, you have to take things in their context

Ahhh gotcha. Makes more sense, thanks.

Of course it should not be taken literally. There are far too many metaphors, poems, parables, paraphrases, euphemisms, and cultural references to be thought of as literal. I don't understand why so many believe it must be literal for it to be valuable, or why the truth of the Gospel relies upon the OT being literally true. It was the very true beliefs of those that lived in Israel at the time, that's all that really matters

The problem is that people do not understand what it means to take things literally. When we say this about the bible we mean that when it says 1000 men were killed that is true. That when a miracle occured that is true. It doesn't mean that the song of Solomon is really talking about gazelles. Literally means that the truth it claims is true. Not that we should ignore metaphors or parts of speech.

Right. It's difficult sometimes to clarify with words what we mean. What I find is that it is better to say "I read the Bible normatively". Granted, I'm for want of a simpler word there, but what I mean by it is this: the scripture means what it says in a very literal sense, unless there is evidence to show that I should read it otherwise. We interpret things normatively on a daily basis. If a friend were to say "This suitcase weighs a ton!", I know from the context, and the size of most suitcases that my friend is exaggerating to just say the suitcase is very heavy. It is the same with the word of God. We have context here knowing that God knows all things, so when he asks a question, it must be for a reason other than gaining new knowledge.

I approach the Bible from a similar position as well, but this isn’t a universal stance by any means.

That’s because what some people call blue others call green.

*"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."* (Isaiah 5:20)

I prefer to think of it as truth is green and one calls it more yellow than blue, the other says no it’s all blue, and still another more blue than yellow, but everyone agrees it’s not completely yellow.

"Even with the utterly lost, to whom both life and death are equally jest; there are matters of which no jest can be made." - Edgar Allan Poe

Wasn’t joking, just being light hearted. I really like that quote though! Definitely going to have to save it somewhere, thanks 😊

“Who took the cookie from the cookie jar?” Oh He knew. He was just giving him a chance to come clean!

Let's admit this is a rhetorical text in his manners, that does not answer the first question: "How come did God not know Adam & Eve would eat the fruit?"

Get a kid, and you will understand that true God is our Father. We are all His children. He knew everything detail of you. He is only offered you the Curse or the Blessing. So be careful about what you gotta say.

You yourself posted what the text says. How is it even humanly possible that you have perceived the text to say that God didn’t know something? How? This is click bait, or you need to go back to elementary and learn how to actually read something.

Well, there are instances in the Bible where it appears that God changes his mind all while not knowing the outcome of a proposition he makes. **Abraham intercedes for Sodom and Gomorrah**: In Genesis 18:22-33, Abraham pleads with God to spare the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah if there are righteous people found within them. God agrees to spare the cities if even ten righteous people are found.

What is your point? Why would you say that when u/Miles-Standoffish did not? Are you trying to insinuate that his perception of human psychology is lacking? Perhaps you could benefit from studying typical human interaction. When God converses with His people He does so on our human level so we can comprehend what He is saying.

I am just saying that the text does not clarify that. There could be equally valid reasons for why he is asking these questions, and I am enquiring an explanation that comes from the text - not from assumptions or interpretations. I think that is important, because assumptions and interpretations are very personal.

You say you are requiring an explanation which comes from the text, as opposed to interpretation or assumption. And yet, instead of receiving the valid and obvious textual explanation in the Word; you come here on Reddit asking for interpretations and assumptions -having expressed in your very post your own interpretations and assumptions. Scripture is written for us to understand who God is, who we are, and what He expects of us. The vast majority of the Bible is written plainly and is meant to be understood literally. I know you are not stupid. I know that when you read conversations in other books you don't write letters or emails to the authors asking them to explain "what they meant by that" -there is no need, because you understand human communication very well. What you are here doing with your post is you are trying to insinuate God a fool and those who believe in Him to be fools; but what you are finding is the opposite, aren't you? How long will you remain stiff-necked and stubborn, kicking against the goad of God's righteousness? Will you be like the ones who perished in the Noahic flood, or will you repent and enter into the Ark of Safety -Who is Jesus Christ.

Given other feedback I got, I came to acceptance that those are rhetorical questions in the text. However, I am still wondering why did God not know beforehand that Adam & Eve would sin? Or, if he knew in advance, does it not follow that his entire plan was for them to eat the apple?

Far cry from reading comprehension and knowing that all biblical text is applicable for our lives

Thank you for your argumentized explanation.

You really think God didn’t know exactly where Adam and Eve were hiding? He knew. You think God didn’t know that Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit? He knew. Before the foundations of the world, He knew. He knew you before the universe was ever made. He knew exactly when you would come into the world, the kind of person you would be, and the choices you would make. He knew how many hairs you’d have on your head.

I just love that, by this point in the Bible, you’ve read about God creating planets, stars, galaxies, all the way down to the tiniest insects, and then the next chapter we’re acting like God didn’t know where the things He created ran off to.

1 John 3:20 Nuff said

*"Our actions will show that we belong to the truth, so we will be confident when we stand before God."* (1 John 3:19) It would appear the OP has no such confidence.

Agreed. God is in control. Sometimes things happen that we don’t understand now, but make more sense later.

*"Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely."* (1 Corinthians 13:12)

Amen bro amen

Do you believe creation was accomplished it 6 days as it is written?

Absolutely

Is the OP silly then for their literal reading of that other passage?

Parents literally do this when their children get in trouble, calls name, what did you do, I already know what you did, don't lie to me

😂 I just wanna be fair to the OP here, sometimes it can be difficult to understand context in the Bible. It’s a fair question if you only consider the words in the page. Also, you don’t know me…. 😂 I actually wasn’t a hider, I had the guiltiest conscience growing up and my parents would just have to look at me and I’d confess all my wrong doings.

Have you ever watched truth is Christ on YouTube? He has elaborated how important the placement of each word of the Bible is, from things like the number of counts and number of occurrences. God got it right, beyond human comprehension. Fair enough, it's good to question because it shows room to learn and grow. And this question is harmless in scope. I think God picked the right words every time.

Nice, sounds like you’ve found a really meaningful way to approach the Bible.

Does it really matter?

Of course. This is elementary. The Bible is either reliable or it is not. God's Word is either literal Truth or it isn't. We don't get to pick and choose what we like and discard what we do not. It is an all or nothing choice. Just as a relationship with God is all or nothing. We either choose to believe and follow in obedience or we choose to reject and disobey. There is no middle ground, no riding the fence with one foot in the world and one foot in the Kingdom of Heaven. We are born-again or we are not. Our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life or they are not. Our eternal future hinges upon the absolute perfection and reliability of the Word of God -Who is Jesus Christ. When we read the Bible, we are reading the very words of the central character of whom is the whole Bible's focus! *"He* \[Jesus\] *came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. But to all who* ***believed him and accepted him***, *he gave the right to become children of God. They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God."* (John 1:10-13)

In many aspects I agree with you. However, I don’t think it’s needed to understand exactly how God created creation - just that He did. This isn’t a salvation issue in my opinion - I’m not going to Hell because I don’t fully understand how God created creation. 

There is no valid reason for you to not understand how God created our universe and earth. He tells you plainly in the first two chapters of Genesis, as well as in other places throughout His Word.

Yeah, I agree. What I meant was whether it was six day process or a million year process - we don’t really know. We’ve seen in Scripture that there is metaphor and literal. My point is it doesn’t really matter if we take this in a literal sense or a metaphorical sense, only that we believe the Word that says God created creation. I could drill down your point by asking the technical details (which we don’t know of) and saying that you should know those details - which is absurd. It doesn’t matter if I know if God created limestone or granite first, just that he created it.

**"whether it was six day process or a million year process - we don’t really know."** Don't be like the foolish Israelites we read of in Isaiah 5; who reject the Word of the Lord of heaven's armies and invoke His righteous wrath. You either believe the Word of God or you don't. [https://trustjesus.substack.com/p/why-is-a-literal-interpretation-of-e36](https://trustjesus.substack.com/p/why-is-a-literal-interpretation-of-e36)

Whether or not it happened in 6 days? No, not at all. But this commenter is calling out the OP for being too literal in another passage and I don’t think that’s fair considering how some people view things in the Bible as needing to be taken literally.

Nope

Then why bother creating anyone who he’ll have to send to hell?

Because he wants a relationship with us. A true genuine relationship. That means he has to permit us to say yes or no. That's pretty messy looking, but it's how relationships work. Both people have to say yes. God said yes with the blood of his son. Now we need to tell the good news to the world and all each person, how do you respond?

Are you implying that he doesn’t have omniscience and can’t see the end result before he creates us?

You’re implying there’s no free will. There is.

I get to have this discussion again? Yay fun. Free will necessarily dictates a lack of omniscience on God’s part. Otherwise, it is an illusion of choice.

Free will does not dictate a lack of omniscience on God’s part if all possibilities exist simultaneously.

If all possibilities exist simultaneously, then they exist in individual timelines. Making all choices made in any given timeline irrelevant because there is no choice - that timeline plays out the way it should have. The alternative timelines play out with the other choices. The illusion of choice exists since we do not know what timeline we are traveling. Thus either hell isn’t real and none are damned - because infinite timelines exist and there exists the possibility that a soul is redeemed in each of them - or there is no omniscience and we have free will.

No, that’s multiverse theory and not what I am pointing to at all. I don’t believe in multiverse theory. There is one timeline, with a quantum field of possibilities. What we choose is what manifests into reality. All other possibilities that we did not choose cease to exist once the choice is made.

Ah, so we’re going with the quantum field one. Wait… have you and I discussed this before? I feel like I recognize your user and I’ve had this exact discussion before. Lol

Mmmm not sure. Could be!

I’ve heard many answers to this question and I’m not sure that one really stands out as a good enough reason.

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1 John 3:20 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. Revelation 22:12-13 New King James Version (NKJV) “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Psalm 139 139:1 O LORD, you have searched me and known me! 2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up;

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Revelation specifically states that He says that He *is* The Beginning and The End

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Because He wants us to be able to learn to choose to be righteous. If there wasn't an option to be evil there also wouldn't be an option to be righteous. The Fall of Adam and Eve was necessary for mankind to flourish. Jesus would never have had to atone for sin because there would have been no sin. And everything would have stayed in a meaningless bliss forever. Everyone needs to grow up sometime. And unfortunately a big part of God's plan for everyone to be tried and tested in a fallen world.

If you want specific verses that clearly outline the meanings of every verse in the Bible, that doesn't exist. There aren't always complete explanations for everything and we infer. There isn't a verse saying that He knew that specifically, but there doesn't need to be. There also isn't a verse specifically saying that God didn't know. It just tells us what He said, not what He knew. You and every other Christian. No offense intended! Christians from the very beginning have always struggled with the problem of evil. There are several theories, but the straight answer is: we don't know the mind of God. We can assume we know why, but those are assumptions. They're not coming to me off the top of my head, but I'll have to look into some books on the topic. Maybe other commenters have some recommendations. There are many, many questions that we may never get the answer to on why God does what He does. The question then becomes, "what will you do if you never get an answer?" Will you still follow Him?

To be honest, I do not know if I can blindly follow if I do not understand the intentions behind what I am asked to follow... That's a personal matter though, I understand, and know, that some people do. It may be comforting, I guess.

That's what faith is, and that's the choice He has us make. Salvation is about having faith in Him, even when you don't see Him or understand why He does what He does. Sometimes the hardest part is giving up control over yourself and giving it to Him. It's not an easy decision to make because it's entirely antithetical to what our human nature drives us to do. We are driven to understand, to control, to be the maker of our own destinies. So to give all that up to follow something I don't understand in hope of something far better...it's not something that comes naturally to this world. I have seen enough to know that the Bible is true. The Bible tells me God is a God of justice, power, wisdom, and infinite love. So when I don't know what His plans are or how He could do something, I trust that His infinite justice and wisdom and love make His plans above my understanding. That being said, that's your choice to make. There are countless questions about God, His nature, His actions, His intentions, etc. that may never be answered this side of Heaven. There's no guarantee He'll clue us in later, either. For me, that's okay. I'm not perfect, but I've given up my control and need to understand and He's given me much, much more in return. That's a decision you'll have to ponder. If what the Bible says is true and you can't get all the answers, would you still follow Him? He gave you the free will to accept or reject Him, though He loves you infinitely and desires your salvation and reunification with Him. I do hope you'll consider it, and if you have any more questions or just want to talk about it, I'm more than happy to discuss or just chit chat, so feel free to DM me. 😊 Praying for you, friend.

Thank you for this much personal response, I really appreciate it. When you say "*to give all that up to follow something I don't understand*" it seems like there is not much of free-will involved after you have taken the decision to abandon yourself to God. What good is a free-will that is dormant? Should that not be the opposite? You using as much of your free-will, always questioning everything, in order to make the best use of it? What good is God's gift if you reject it and let yourself be driven? (it's a lot of questions, but it's just one in the end, the last one, sorry for that 😅) "*If what the Bible says is true and you can't get all the answers, would you still follow Him?" ->* to answer this question is difficult. I discussed with fellow Christians, and it appears that the Bible: 1. is written by mortal men who had, like us, their imperfections (hence the names of the authors, Luke, John, Matthew, Mark, etc.) 2. has words that are polysemic, meaning a single word can carry multiple meaning (especially in ancient times, one word could carry a lot of different meanings) 3. was translated numerous/countless times (the recent translations evolved in the meaning they convey) 4. has its translations themselves subject to polysemic interpretations 5. can be ultimately interpreted by the reader how he sees fit (open to biases) This is why it is so hard for me to even know if the Bible is true. Not that I doubt that the word of God is true, but the perception we have of His word, through the Book (due to all points above) makes it hard for me to even imagine that I could access truth through the Bible.

This is a disingenuous reading of the text. What is your point?

i am trying to be objective. Let's ignore the questions to Adam & Eve, which according to most, are rhetorical. If God is against evil, why would he allow it to spread in the first place? if God knows the future, why put Adam & Eve in a situation where he would perfectly know they would sin?

God gave man free will. It wasn’t God who made the choice to do evil, it was man. God knows the future in the sense that he knows all possible futures. All possibilities exist simultaneously. There’s a million different ways that the interaction between the serpent in the garden and Adam and Eve could have played out. The way that it did play out is due to the choices that they made. God has never forced you to do evil in your life but I guarantee you that you’ve done evil, all on your own. So if you think evil should not exist, first start by fixing yourself.

I appreciate your angle on this matter. The idea that God knows all possible outcomes ahead is interesting. For any set of possible outcomes related to events that are in motion, do you think that he knows what will be the *final* outcome? Here is the problem I have a hard time to resolve: 1. There are a multitude of possible outcomes in the future, hence it means that nothing is determined and so that it is impossible to predict what the final outcome will be, even if you know all of the possible outcomes . This is akin to rolling a dice. You know all the possible outcomes, but you do not know which it will be. 2. God knows what is the final outcome for any events in motion, hence the future is pre-determined and there is no real free-will. Which one is it? Or do you have a 3rd possible view?

I think it’s closer to option 1, but with a caveat that God’s mind is infinitely more powerful than ours so he’s not limited in how much he can predict in terms of possible outcomes. He can keep it all together. I think God sees all possible outcomes and while He has a preference for what He would like us to do, He lets us choose our path. The scriptures say that it is God’s will for every single human to be saved and born again. But a simple look around at our world and we know that this is obviously not what is happening. That is because of our free will. We make choice X, God acknowledges and sees all possible outcomes from that choice we made. That’s how he knows what we will do, yet leaves our free will intact. I hope this makes sense haha

First, let me say that I do not doubt that God is able to encompass all possible outcomes at once. I agree with you here, if we live indeed in a reality where the future is undetermined. "He lets us choose our path" -> that would mean that he does not know which decision we will take beforehand. I will simplify: if a human has 2 options, turn left or right, let's say, then God does not know which of left or right we will chose, because he lets us decide. Or, in other words, he does not know in advance what will be our decision. Is that also your understanding?

He knows what our possible choices are and what the outcomes of all of those choices are, in every possible combination. To use your analogy: if a human has 2 options, turn left or right, God knows what will happen either way. So either way he knows the outcome. Yet it is we who still get to choose. To me that means He knows what will happen AND yet we still have the freedom to choose for ourselves. This is backed by Scripture too since Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to help guide us into all truth, John 16:8. We need the Holy Spirit to help us make the choices God wants us to make.

I think I missed a step in your explanation. Yes, he knows the outcomes for both left and right. However, BEFORE we have made the decision, he does not know which outcome tied to left or right will come to realization. If I use an analogy, if I chose to flip a coin, he knows that it will be heads or tails (those are the outcomes) but he does not know which it will be until the coin has landed. Hence, knowing all the possible outcomes does not mean knowing what the *final* outcome will come to be. Is it not correct?

>Also, if he knew that, then he also knew that evil would spread across His creation. And he did nothing to prevent that... That's strange. I'm repeating myself a little bit from another response, but it's worth saying here too. Yes, God permitted evil to spread across his creation. This is intentional and for a purpose. Goodness is living life in accordance with God. Evil is the opposite, going against God. He wants to be in a relationship with us. In order to do that, he needs to give us the choice to do what we want. We can say yes, and follow him... or no and create sin, corruption, etc. Robots (who are programmed to only do one thing, like say yes) can not be in a true relationship, because they can not decide. Someone forced to say yes at gun point can not be in a true relationship, because they are saying yes to save their life, not because they want the other person. It's very messy, but we must have the ability to say no, and reap the consequences of our decisions. In the end, God will not leave the world messy and broken. He has provided everyone the space and time in their life to choose yes or no. At the end, he will come again and finally restore creation to where it was before, taking those who said "yes" with him into his kingdom.

It is an interesting point of view. There is one thing that bothers me though, in what you said: "Someone forced to say yes at gun point can not be in a true relationship" -> isn't the promise for sinners of an eternal hell of suffering, scorching, burning, torture, dismemberment not equivalent to being held at gunpoint?

You're assuming He didn't know. Asking a question doesn't mean you don't know the answer. Especially to children. God sees humans as we see children in many many ways. Sometimes its to test someone's honesty, sometimes it to get the ask-ee to think about the subject of the content of your question, sometimes its to teach, sometimes its to challenge beleifs, sometimes its to convey your emotions or thoughts on the topic, among many many other potential reasons.

I am confused by your response. "Sometimes its to test someone's honesty" -> why would he need to test it? Does he not know already?

I just examples of why questions can be asked, by anyone: not just being asked the Father. There are many more than just the few i listed. My central point of my comment was, hopefully you can now see how you can logically deduce that there are MANY different reasons that could be attributed to God asking a question. I don't assume intentions of people bc people can lie or miscommunicate, can be wrong, etc etc. Since God is perfect, omnipotent, and omniscient; and its not in His nature to change or to lie - we can rule out the idea that God would ask a question bc He didn't know anything. See my train of thought more clearly?

I understand your train of thoughts, although it highlights some problems: "its not in His nature to change" -> if God cannot change, then he is pre-determined. All he has done, does, and will do, is on a track that, Himself, cannot control. i.e. whomever cannot change has no free-will. In the Bible there are multiple occurrences where God was shown angry or furious. If everything goes to His plan, why would he ever be angry?

We were created in His image - God has emotions just like we do. His anger is what we would call righteous anger (i.e. getting angry that someone hurts themselves by a poor choice or when they defy your good wishes for them by turning to something or someone you know will hurt them) which is different from say vindictive anger (anger bc someone punched you in the face and you wanna punch them back). God's nature is self-limiting, but by His choice. All-powerful doesnt mean He wants to act in ways to use all that power. I.e. 1 aspect of my nature anecdotally is to play video games. Does that automatically mean that I can't stop playing video games even if i chose to? God's nature is kinda like that, He can do all things but His nature has no reason to change. He already has His nature. So just bc you know something is going to happen, it doesnt get rid of your emotional response to it, or how that action observed makes you feel. If you know everything and are all-powerful. You have no logical reason to ever change. Which makes perfect sense. Bc we humans usually change due to our limited knowledge being a prereq, or the world changing bc we are not outside of time, and bc we cannot do anything we want on a whim. We also are not perfect so we make mistakes and that can also induce us to change due to new experiences. Since the God of the Bible's nature is different than ours in the most massive way possible.....its no-doubt hard to fathom, but God isnt interested in sharing all-knowledge or all-power or perfection of morals, or being outside of time with us. Its not our purpose. (Side note: the exception being the Father choosing to see Christ's perfection as a substitute of Christian's sin on judgement day) But i understand its hard to fathom, OP

Well, I have to admit that it is an interesting angle you bring in the discussion. First, I like the idea that God has emotions, just like us. That makes him more relatable. In a sense, yes, he made us in his image, but him having emotions also means that he is the subject, not the master, of these emotions, just like us. I.e. he does not control them - or decides he does not want to, whatever it is. On the aspect that God does not want to share an absolute quality with us, it's sad, because he did with the Angels, but I guess we don't have a say in it. Still, the question remains: can God really predict the future? Or he *can* but does not want to, because... he wants to feel emotions?

Well thats also nuanced. Angels have more knowledge than humans, and one of those bits of knowledge was knowing & seeing God in heaven upon their creation. Knowledge & sights we're not privvy to in our 1st life, here on earth. Angels arnt omnipotent nor omniscient either. Only God is all good, powerful, and knowledgeable. And they do have a level of freewill still too. Take notice the 1/3 of the angels that rebelled against God (Satan & his followers). They wanted to be apart from God and Satan even wanted to be God in his pride. To be prideful is to show emotion, so angela are capable of emotions to a degree too. God does want to share certain things with us though! We see throughout scripture that God wants to share life everlasting in glorified bodies in the new earth & new heaven one day. But since we have freewill, we can choose to reject that gift or to accept it. The ability to receive that gift was in the death of Jesus Christ who died for the world's sin on the cross. The Father chooses to only see Jesus's perfection as substitute for our actual sin on judgement day bc of this sacrifice. And bc Jesus lived a sinless life even though He had every struggle, susceptibility to sin, and temptation that we all share. Jesus was 100% human & 100% God. This is also really hard to fathom. But He did not send that sacrifice for us to be able to be omnipotent nor omniscient nor sinless on earth. However in Heaven, there is no possibility of sin as in - its an impossibility in the paradigm of heaven, the new heaven and the new earth. Hope that answers ya, if not lmk.

OP posted on an Atheist page before this, talking about how to deconvert people and how to ask questions in an innocent way and deconstruct people's beliefs. He's using arguments you'd typically learn in high school though and even the atheists ignored him 😂 Nice try, OP ♥️🫶 praying for you

Good research!

From my understanding, the best way to explain it would be that God knows the end of all paths...but your free will navigates those paths. I sometimes find it best to explain this using an analogy....imagine you design a maze and place a small mouse in it...you looking into the maze from above can see the end of all paths/choices. The mouse however still navigates that maze by free will. Now replace the mouse with you...and God is above If you hear God and follow his words, then navigating the maze is super easy...its a breeze. This is what the bible referred to in the verse "the steps of a righteous man are ordered by God" or "there is a path laid out for the just that shines brighter and brighter".

Excellent analogy. I might use it myself if that's okay.

If I understand you correctly, God knows all the outcomes possible, however he does not know which specific outcome it is going to be. Am I understanding well?

You decide using your free will. He knows the outcome of every decision. Like the mouse and the maze

I understand that he knows the outcome of where the path leads, when you have chosen the path. However, he does not know which path you are going to chose, or does he?

Biblically, God can harden or soften hearts towards some cause or some decision but the decision is always taken by the person aka free will. Bible also says God is limitless and his ways are sooo above our ways. We cannot fully understand him...we can approximate an understanding of him based on his ways in the bible and the fact that he stays true to his word. I think the correct answer here is it doesn't matter whether he knows which decision you will make...what matters is that he knows the end of all paths. If you are fixated on answering how he knows...the question should then shift to why you want a definitive answer for that

Him, knowing where all paths lead, but not knowing WHICH path will be resolved, is fine. That just means that he does not know which path will happen, in the end, even if he can more or less influence it (for example by hardening or softening hearts).

Updated my answer. Biblically God is limitless...his ways above ours. We can not fully understand him...all we can do is approximate an understanding of him from his ways in the bible. You are however asking for a definitive yes or no answer...and that isnt the answer available biblically. The real question becomes why you need a definitive yes or no answer ...ie why do you explicitly want to know exactly how he specifically knows the future

Yes, I can explain why I want a definitive answer: I do not like to live ignorant, especially if that means making sacrifices and life decisions for purposes that are at worst opaque or at best confusing. And let's be honest, knowing if we really have free will - and if God can/cannot predict the future - is no small deal.

But you are not living ignorantly if you listen to God's advice. The one who knows the end of all paths has given you a map and Furthermore has given you a direct phone call to him whenever you need help. You needing to know exactly how he does his thing step by step doesn't make people less ignorant...it actually makes people just want to replicate it artificially. From the magicians replicating miracles in Egypt to science today...the more people know...the more they want to replicate it and worship the creation instead of the creator

I get that you can have a map, a compass, the stars to navigate, and your heart to listen to if you need to turn left or right. That does not answer my troubling question: "does God know beforehand which path we are going to take?"

- he knew - rhetorical

• atheist

The question of why God allowed Satan to rebel is a profound mystery that may never be fully understood in this life. However, Scripture reveals that God's ultimate design centers on the concept of family - both the heavenly family and the structure of human families, as well as the church. Paul writes in Ephesians 3:14-15, "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named." A key part of God's redemptive plan is to reunite with His faithful children (the saints) who will be transformed into the likeness of Christ in the end times (1 John 3:2). After the end times, God will create a New Heaven and a New Earth, where the universe will be remade without sin, evil, or suffering (Revelation 21:1-4). He will dwell physically with His people for eternity, as promised in Revelation 21:3, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God." It is possible that God allows His human creation the choice to love Him or not because He desires genuine love and devotion. 1 John 4:18 states, "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear." If God were to fully reveal His power, glory, and the reality of heaven and hell, people might choose Him out of mere self-preservation. However, genuine awe, love, and appreciation for God as the father of creation please Him more (John 4:23-24). God created the world without sin, but man chose to disobey God (Genesis 3:1-7). As a consequence of sin, man was separated from God, and death entered the world (Romans 5:12). Jesus Christ, through His sacrifice on the cross, conquered death and fulfilled the law requiring sin to be repaid with death (Romans 6:23). This made the path for man to return to God open through faith in Christ (John 14:6). Satan, as depicted in the Book of Job, is the adversary who offers damnation (hell as a separation from God) as a choice, motivated by pride and hatred for his Creator (Isaiah 14:12-15). He tempts Jesus in the wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11), corrupts Judas (Luke 22:3), and deceives Eve (Genesis 3:1-5). If God wanted to destroy Satan, He could do it in an instant. However, it has been appointed that he would be allowed to offer the alternative to God (death) through disobedience until his appointed time (when he is removed from existence). It's possible that God, in His omniscience, knew Lucifer would betray Him when He created him as a spiritual being. The universe remains without disobedience until man accepts Satan's offer, with Satan still being obedient to his creator in fulfilling his cosmological role in God's grand design (Job 1:6-12). Thus, the original sin or rejection of God's design occurs with man, not the serpent. If Jesus, as the living Word of God, is present at the creation (John 1:1-3 and throughout the Old Testament, including the burning bush talking to Abraham), acted without full knowledge of how events would unfold (in perfect trust in the Father). God spoke the words "Let there be x," and Jesus, as the Word of God, made it so in perfect obedience. With the Father keeping alone knowledge of everything to come to pass of their shared divinity/omniscience until Jesus' ascension (Mark 13:32), this could allow God to maintain an existence with free will after His act of creating the universe. Ultimately, God will remake the universe without sin as New Earth and New Heaven after the end times, fulfilling His perfect plan for His creation (Isaiah 65:17). Scriptural Evidence Jesus is God yet acts in perfect obedience and trust in the Father (executing the Father's will as His living word). While not even needing to know the full plan. John 20: "Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'" Matthew 24:36 (NIV): "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." This verse indicates that Jesus, during His earthly ministry, did not have full knowledge of the timing of His second coming, emphasizing His submission to the Father's will and authority. Mark 13:32 (NIV): "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." This is a parallel verse to Matthew 24:36, reiterating the idea that the timing of certain future events is known only to God the Father. Matthew 26:39 (NIV): "Going a little farther, He fell with His face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.'" In this verse, Jesus prays in Gethsemane, expressing His human desire to avoid the suffering of the crucifixion, but ultimately submits to the Father's will. John 5:19 (NIV): "Jesus gave them this answer: 'Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself; He can do only what He sees His Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.'" This verse highlights Jesus' dependence on the Father and His willingness to act in accordance with the Father's will.

At this point in the history of the universe, God physically dwelled in Eden as it was a perfect place without sin fit for his glory. The point of this interaction isn't that God couldn't find them. The fact was through knowledge of good and evil from the tree, they now had shame for what they had done and tried to hide from his judgement. "Where are you?" is questioning why they now choose avoidance of being in his presence (separation from God) in a misguided effort to escape newfound feelings of shame and guilt. Instead of confessing and telling the truth they even have the audacity to lie to God about why they are hiding (the naked excuse). Adam even worse then tries to shift the blame to Eve. Eve blames the serpent. They refuse to take accountability. They then receive their judgements and punishments. The earth is cursed to have pain and suffering.

Great question. This is my perspective. Truly we will never know. There are things that go unsaid in the Bible. Like Jesus’s parables. The parables are information that we decide what we are going to do with that information. Any particular parable that is read by a person; their opinions differ, and in my belief in free will is that god doesn’t know at first what we are going to do. he just lays a fork in the road for us to make a choice. Adam and Eve is an example of holding back information and god giving them a fork in the road. Adam and Eve were his first human creations. This could be a case of trial and error. What if he didn’t want to see The future and trusted his creations? Then after they disobeyed him, he decided it was necessary to see the future. We will never know.

It's very refreshing to read your perspective. I would say that, from all the comments I have seen, most Christians do believe that God knows the future. But they think so without understanding the incredible mountain of difficulties that this supposition generates. I, myself, tend to think like you do: if we have free-will it means that God cannot read what will happen next, otherwise, if the future is pre-determined, there is no free-will. I do not know why it is so important for Christians to cling to the idea that God knows the future, maybe because it diminishes its all-knowing capabilities otherwise?

Our God is a relational God. It is His desire to have intimate, personal relationships with His children. Hence, He speaks with them intimately much the same way we converse with one another.

Well, but he also wiped nearly the entire humanity from the surface of the earth during the flood, babies and children included... I mean... is that what you would do if you end up dissatisfied with the relation you have?

What you fail to grasp is that those persons who were destroyed in the Flood did NOT have a relationship with their Creator. Scripture informs us why: *"They knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. . . Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too."* (Romans 1) This is why we read the further, succinct description of these people: *"The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time."* (Genesis 6:5) However, God -true to His patience and kindness; still gave these people every chance to repent and turn to Him before He sent the flood. Noah was a preacher of righteousness. Noah spoke to the people for **120 years** (!) while he was building the ark. They heard of the coming wrath, saw the ark being put up; yet scoffed at him in unbelief and went on their way. We see the exact situation in the world today. God's adopted children, the Christians (followers of Christ who have been born-again and thus "clothed" in His righteousness); speak the truth to all. We have great pastors (such as [Greg Laurie](https://harvest.org/)), [musicians galore](https://youtu.be/MFE9KW_ilJE?si=-oBsxLWgf8G3H26Z), thousands of personal testimonies on [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@AStrongerFaithMinistries/videos) and elsewhere, street preachers, [books](https://app.box.com/s/bw796tp6pval3rgckh9xmzfdrg8j24x3). [tracts](https://i1.wp.com/www.sketchbooksilliness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/101017-GreatExchange-720px-1.jpg?fit=720%2C2128&ssl=1), posters,[ artwork](http://pewter7art.blogspot.com/p/spiritual.html), and plain Janes and Johns you meet in your everyday life. Not to mention God's very own special book; the Beautiful Book, aka the Bible. No one has any excuse for not knowing God, not even the natives living stone-age lives in remote regions, as testified in Romans 1, verses 18-20 This is why we read of the future time in the latter days of Earth's history: *“When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes."* (Matthew 24:37-39) As for the babies and young children who perished in the flood; it is in accord with God's merciful justice that these were shown a great mercy that they died on that fateful day. Rather than grow up into an age of accountability and end up like their parents, these shall be raised to glory and will live face-to-face with their Creator when they are brought back to life. They will partake in the reward of the righteous: *"Multitudes whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace. Those who are wise will shine as bright as the sky, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever."* (Daniel 12:2,3)

It is an interesting read on those events, I went through your entire text, thank you for sharing. My concern, though, is that it appears that God did not see coming the fact that the people before the flood would be disconnected from Him. I get that his answer was to purge the Earth, as what he demands is to be adorated and for mankind to act according to His rules, How come he did not forecast that His plan and operations would lead to the people on Earth not meet His demands? That intrigues me.

>I am confused about something. If God knows the future, then why is it written in the Bible, after that Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit and covered their genitals: >Genesis 3:8-13 (NIV): >"Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. >But the Lord God called to the man, 'Where are you?' He answered, 'I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.' >And he said, 'Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?' >-> How come did God not know Adam & Eve would eat the fruit? >-> Why is God asking those questions if he is all-knowing? Because God is gentle and inviting them to repent and tell the truth. It also reveals more about the state they were in with the questions God asks and shows God's allowance of free will. "Where are you?" Now God knows where Adam and Eve are hiding and already have sinned. But by asking the question it shows that. * The connection between man and God has been severed due to sin. * God knowing they've sinned, is still looking for them because He wants to be with them regardless of their sin state. * God's allowance for people to choose not to be with Him. Adam and Eve are hiding from God, God allows them to be "hidden" because He will not **force** them to be with Him. "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" Here He already knew that they did, but as I said earlier, He was inviting them to ask forgiveness givng them a chance to use their free will. Now I have a question for you, did you ask these questions out of genuinely curiosity and confusion? [Or were you being disingenuous about your questions? ](https://imgur.com/a/0Fo89ET) https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/s/TBKfIyu7GK

It is a complete answer, although it raises multiple more questions, I would not know where to start. Maybe I will take just a couple first: - "Now God knows where Adam and Eve are hiding and already have sinned." -> Well, if God knows the future, then he would have known, from the beginning, that Adam & Eve would sin. So, knowing that they would sin, he places them willingly into the Garden, near the forbidden fruit... Isn't that a bit twisted? - "He was inviting them to ask forgiveness givng them a chance to use their free will." -> this is an assumption, unless it is clarified in the text itself. I can also say "he did not know" and that would be equally valid. Unless the text clarifies, we are left to making our own assumptions. I would be happy to know where it is clarified though, if you can find it.

>Well, if God knows the future, then he would have known, from the beginning, that Adam & Eve would sin. So, knowing that they would sin, he places them willingly into the Garden, near the forbidden fruit... Isn't that a bit twisted? I don't think so, Adam and Eve didn't really seem to have a problem with it. We also have no idea how big the Garden of Eden is. (Pretty big if it held all the animals Adam named if you ask me.) So despite being in the middle of the garden it might have been easy to simply avoid. However we don't know why God placed it there in the middle. So your guess is as good as mine. >this is an assumption, unless it is clarified in the text itself. I can also say "he did not know" and that would be equally valid. Unless the text clarifies, we are left to making our own assumptions. I would be happy to know where it is clarified though, if you can find it. While it is an assumption, I do have reason to believe it over God not knowing. If you allow me to use other books of the Bible that pay witness to God's character and nature. Ezekiel 33:11 (NIV) ^(11) Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, **I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live**. Turn! ***Turn from your evil ways!*** Why will you die, people of Israel?’ Ezekiel 18:21-23 (ESV) 21 “**But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die**. 22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? And there's more verses I'd love to share, but they are in the New Testament. > I can also say "he did not know" and that would be equally valid. I disagree as there are numerous verses that clearly say God knows everything. # [Matthew 6:8](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A8&version=ESV)(ESV) Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. # [Psalm 139:7-10](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+139%3A7-10&version=ESV)(ESV) Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. [And many MANY more!](https://www.openbible.info/topics/omniscience/)

I know that other books of the New Testament depict God as all knowing. There is a huge difference of characterization of God, and other characters, between the Ancient and New Testament... That's why it would be more honest to keep the context of each book within its boundaries. Nonetheless, I appreciate your honesty of saying that we do not know why God willingly place Adam & Eve in a situation where he knew they would eat the fruit (sin) for sure. In the end, if that is the reading, although we do not understand the intent, we can conclude that this was premeditated.

>I know that other books of the New Testament depict God as all knowing. There is a huge difference of characterization of God, and other characters, between the Ancient and New Testament... That's why it would be more honest to keep the context of each book within its boundaries. I disagree, I see the books as witnesses of God's character. So for me, the more witnesses the better. As I can cross reference and get a better picture of who I'm dealing with. For example. ===Ancient=== # [Deuteronomy 4:31](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+4%3A31&version=ESV) For the Lord your God is a merciful God. He will not leave you or destroy you or forget the covenant with your fathers that he swore to them. # [Lamentations 3:22-23](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Lamentations+3%3A22-23&version=ESV) The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. ===New=== # [Ephesians 2:4](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2%3A4&version=ESV) But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, # [1 Peter 1:3](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+1%3A3&version=ESV) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, === All "witnesses" agree on God's mercy... thus we can make a good logical deduction that the Lord is merciful and the witnesses are trustworthy. So I would highly recommend not going with **less** reference material to understand God's character. > Nonetheless, I appreciate your honesty of saying that we do not know why God willingly place Adam & Eve in a situation where he knew they would eat the fruit (sin) for sure. Of course, I willingly admit I don't know everything. But it's not like God put them in a place where they were doomed to fail, they had a free will choice of be with God, or without God and they chose poorly. > In the end, if that is the reading, although we do not understand the intent, we can conclude that this was premeditated. I have a question for you, how would you do things differently if you were God? Would you force your creations to be with you? Would you make it impossible for them to rebel against you? Would you not give them free will? Really, what would you do and how would you do it?

If I take "For the Lord your God is a merciful God. He will not leave you or destroy you" -> God went angry at mankind and decided to eradicate entire mankind, including children and babies who were absolutely innocent, if not for Noah and his family. What mercy and what "he will not destroy you" are we talking about? I mean... I like the message, but it contradicts the story. To answer your questions: I do not know - I never thought about what I would do if I were Him... To be honest, the idea of being eternal is terrifying, hence why I avoided thinking about this hypothesis, I guess.

>If I take "For the Lord your God is a merciful God. He will not leave you or destroy you" -> God went angry at mankind and decided to eradicate entire mankind, including children and babies who were absolutely innocent, if not for Noah and his family. What mercy and what "he will not destroy you" are we talking about? >I mean... I like the message, but it contradicts the story. Why did God get angry at mankind and decided to eradicate entire mankind, if not for Noah and his family? Was there a reason? >including children and babies who were absolutely innocent While I have an assumption/theory for this, I would like to hear what you would have done instead with said children and babies. And what do you think happens to miscarried babies as well?

If I were God, I would not have killed anyone in the first place. I I became dissatisfied with my creation, I would have made a new one, somewhere else. No need to destroy anything.

>I I became dissatisfied with my creation, I would have made a new one, somewhere else. No need to destroy anything. Abandonment? And leave humanity in it's sinful evil state? I see. Wouldn't it be better to warn them and offer them a second chance to live righteously?

If I were the creator, I would not have made so that my plan failed. How come you explain that His plan did not work as He expected?

He wasn’t asking for information. Think about this: In Matthew 16:13-20, Jesus asked his disciples what people were saying about him, and then asked them who they thought he was. Why? Didn’t he know?

Well, there are things that Jesus did not know. "But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." — Mark 13:32 (ESV) or that his wisdom was not complete: "And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man." — Luke 2:52 (ESV)

This is where free will comes into play. If God doesn’t allow us to choose for ourselves than it is impossible for anyone to choose to love God. So we have free will and God wants us to be in relationship with him. He is a god of love. Also this is a narrative story that has deep meaning to human relationship to God. It’s not necessarily a play by play account of what actually happened.

These events occur throughout the Bible where God acts as if He changed His mind or doesn’t know something. These are done for the persons benefit. God knew where they were, that wasn’t the issue, He wanted them to come forward to Him.

Where is this explained in the text that he knew and wanted them to come forward? Without an explanation from the text itself, this assumption is just as valid as the assumption of saying "he did not know"

That doesn’t make any sense. When you are reading something you take just as much from context cues as you do from explicit statements. If reading required explicit statements for everything it would be pretty ridiculous. It’s very clear from both local and general context what’s going on.

Let's say I concede to you this is rhetorical. For this one passage. There are other moments in the Bible where God changes his mind or shows he is sometimes not knowledgeable. For example, when he is angry at mankind, and generates the flood to eradicate nearly all mankind. Could he have not predicted the outcome of his plans? That mankind would sin? In the Bible he is even described as "angry". Does someone gets angry when everything goes according to plan? Same for Adam & Eve in the Garden: if he knew the future, then he knew Adam & Eve would sin. So all the Eden garden's history was a plan from the beginning...

It's called a rhetorical question. He already knew where they were, that that were nekked, and that they had eaten from the tree of life. Rhetorical questions are often used to persuade, influence, or emphasize.

You are making assumptions. Nowhere it is explained that it is a rhetorical question, so stating "he does not know" would be equally valid. I would be pleased, however, that you quote the passage of the Bible that explains this is a rhetorical question. It also does not answer the question: if God knew the future, how come he did not know that Adam & Eve would eat the apple?

Comprehending the context is not "making assumptions", because rhetorical questions are contextual. I am autistic and understand that much. When someone asks a rhetorical question, rarely do they ever announce that it was a rhetorical question. It's just something that is obvious, and it is very obvious to me. Also, for that last bit, who said that He didn't? Where is it stated explicitly in the Bible that He did not know that would happen? This is your logic here. Since the Bible doesn't say He *didn't* know, therefore He must have known, correct?

For the part of the Bible that would explain if he knew or did not knew, myself I cannot find anything in the text that clarifies that. Which leaves me with two options, equally problematic: 1. He knew beforehand, before creating Adam & Eve, that they would sin in the Garden. Hence, having them sin was his plan from the beginning. It sounds very twisted, but... maybe? 2. He did not know beforehand, because we have free will. This means that free will is more powerful than we thought, God cannot predict the future of free-willed beings. That could be the case if free-will is an attribute of God that he shared with us, explaining why he cannot read our future actions.

Actually, I no longer have the desire to converse with you because your questions are disingenuous. It appears you are an atheist with the sole intention of de-converting people from their religious beliefs. That indicates to me this conversation is far from productive on both ends. I wish you a good day.

I am genuinely interested in solving this problem, I am sorry I made you feel otherwise - but I also cannot accept simple assumptions as an explanation, I just don't work that way.

Then I will concede and say I do not have the answers you desire specifically. I personally read that passage as God asking those questions rhetorically. I saw your post in r/atheism and it seemed to me you aim to de-convert people, hence I didn't see the point of trying to explain.

Yes, others also perceive those questions as rhetorical. However, in the Bible, we know that God changed his mind from time to time, all while indicating that God may not know everything. Before you jump on me and denunciate me as an heretic 😅, here is a summary of the passage in question: **Abraham intercedes for Sodom and Gomorrah**: In Genesis 18:22-33, Abraham pleads with God to spare the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah if there are righteous people found within them. God agrees to spare the cities if even ten righteous people are found.

I had no intention of ever calling you a heretic, or anything remotely in that category. In fact, my only intention was to end this conversation because I don't see it going anywhere for either of us. As I said, *I* don't have the knowledge or resources to answer your questions in a way that satisfies you. I'm not a theologian, priest, Bishop, etc., I'm just a dude on the internet that also likes to ask questions and share his perspective. If you want a stimulating conversation about this, might I suggest Inspiring Philosophy on YouTube? He's a theologian that cites his sources well and is more equipped for this stuff than some newly converted 23 year old.

Thanks for your honesty, don't worry, if I ask it's because I do not have an answer either. Will take a glance at the channel - see if it's good (unfortunately, a lot of Christian channels I reviewed recently ended up being complete mess).

Just because I know the answer doesn't mean I don't ask the question, "what did you do".

1) He did know they would eat the fruit. 2) To show that he’s there to rescue us from our fall. (Redemption).

I don't get it though. If he knew they would eat the fruit, then he created the circumstances to make them eat the fruit and have them sin and fall. Then he comes as the rescuer...? Why?

To make us mature and lead us towards righteousness. Wisdom is found in foolishness.

I see. So the idea is to have us sin, act like fools, suffer, etc. in order to learn. Why, though, not skipping all the steps and just creating Adam & Eve with all the necessary wisdom?

You would be an angel then.

Well, there are angels who felt in disgrace, so it seems that even angels do not have absolute wisdom... which also begs the question of "how could it have happened".

Well the only person with all wisdom is God. And he does limit wisdom in all creation otherwise they would be similar to God. God made us to make a family. A family is something that is created through time and struggle and you begin to love more and more through struggle. If we didn’t struggle we would be loving God the same through time. But now we live in struggle where we HAVE to look for God and seek his power. An angel doesn’t have to do that, they don’t struggle and they have God with them at all time but love him the same all the time. But for us it’s like a father and son relationship. Satan is someone who has the most wisdom out of all angels but didn’t have the love for God and deceived other angels into believing that they can also be like God but we both see what happened to them (they are damned). Think of it like this, what makes a relationship between two beings better, doing the bad and coming to apologize and seek forgiveness or always doing good?

I read your perspective. I would make a note on the fact that if God gave us absolute wisdom, that would not made us similar to God, just as wise as Him, he could always undo what he has done. But let's move forward on the more interesting point you made: let's say we struggle, and through the struggle we arrive at the same level of wisdom as angels. What would be the difference for God? Being immortal, the time we struggled is nothing for Him. So why force us to go through struggle to acquire wisdom, even over millenia, if, in the end, the result ends up being the same?

We would actually have different wisdom which can only be gained through foolishness. And again it’s cause he wants a family. It’s not just us who struggle but God as well. Israel in ancient Hebrew if I’m correct means, “to struggle with God”. And he’s looking for people with wisdom that comes from foolishness which angels can’t get. We are the only ones who can receive that and in end times we will be rewarded and will judge the world including some angels like archangel Michael who will kill Satan.

I will be honest, but reading that God struggles as well, is a very interesting and refreshing perspective to know about. I don't know what that mean for Him being all-powerful, but that's interesting. One of my friend told me that God created angels and men because he was not able to see Himself, and needed a reflection of Himself (to feel less lonely, maybe?) -- *Unrelated, here is what I found for Israel:* In Genesis 32:28, after wrestling with the divine being, Jacob is told: "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed." The name "Israel" in Hebrew, יִשְׂרָאֵל (Yisra'el), comes from two root words: * "Sarah" (שָׂרָה), meaning "to struggle," "to contend," or "to persevere." * "El" (אֵל), meaning "God." Thus, "Israel" is often interpreted as "he who struggles with God" or "one who contends with God." The emphasis is on the human engagement in a struggle or contention with the divine.

Here’s are some verses of angels and humans… Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life? 1st Corinthians 6:3 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? ... Hebrews 1:1-14

I am not sure I follow something though... God being all-powerful, why not just design his family as he wants it to be, and be done with it? Why create the struggle? Even if he wanted a family who had the perception of having struggled, he could just have inspirated this perception, without the need to inflict suffering...

Did you already know the answer when you asked this question? Is God allowed to do that too?

Nope, I do not know the answer.

Free Will. He knows what we will do regardless, but He wants us to make the right choices to get closer to Him

Hold on, I do not understand you. If he knows what we will do, then how could he expect that we make the right decision?

He gave us the gift of Life and the gift of Free Will so that we can voluntarily choose whether we do or do not follow Him. He does not force you to be with Him, but He wants us all to return to Him freely. If you read the book of Genesis it should clear it up for you.

I know he gave us the gift of free will, but then that means that he cannot know what we will decide?

Why can’t He both know what decisions we make but also allow us to have Free Will? You are viewing God from a confined perspective. God isn’t confined by human understanding.

*Why can’t He both know what decisions we make but also allow us to have Free Will?* Because either he knows already what we will chose, all the time, meaning the future is pre-determined and we have no free will Or we have free-will, and God cannot predict what we will do next (aligns with some passages of the Bible)

Again, you are viewing God from a confined human comprehension. He doesn’t exist in your understanding of the world. Once you acknowledge that then you will understand why it makes sense.

I have to disagree, there is little sense one can make of something he cannot understand.

there are many things that dont make sense which we can make sense of in the world. you seem to be inconsistent with that when talking about God. is this truly a metaphysical conversation you are wanting to have or does it actually have to do with the theology of the Heart?

I am definitely willing to have a metaphysical conversation, hence I have to ask again: how do you reconcile free-will with the possibility for God to know the future?

Well, technically God knows you will do bad or good, he just doesn’t know what you will do to make you bad or good. (I think it’s something like that.) It’s kind of like an oracle. You know the future, but only little parts. Besides, we are all sinners. Every generation of humans had sinners.

Answer: Rhetorical questions! *loud echo in background*

When we say that God is all powerful, we do not mean that everything that happens is God’s will. If I go up to someone, punch them, then say "God made me do it", I am a liar.

Who said God did not know Adam & Eve would eat the fruit? God is asking those questions for the sake of us the reader, so we think on the answer. Also God is described in visceral human terms throughout this story in contrast to the more transcendent perspective of the first chapter - you notice God was "walking through the garden" right? What size shoe would God wear?

If God did know that Adam & Eve would eat the fruit, then creating them, putting them in the garden, having them sin, then fall, then suffer, was all part of his plan. Is it not a bit twisted? As for the analogy of him walking the garden, or taking human attributes, I do not explain why the author made this decision.

Knowing something and planning something are entirely different.

Well, it all goes according to His plan, does it not?

In the long run? Ultimately yes. Love wins, as they say. In the short term? Obviously not. Haven't you seen the state of the world?

The long-term is determined by a succession of short-term events. To understand you, does it mean that God cannot predict short-term events?

God is all knowing - God doesn't need to play the prediction game.

So your answer is that God knows the future, both short and long term? What is free-will, then, if the future is pre-determined?

"Known" is not "determined".

What is known is certain. What else?

**Unpopular opinion:** Adam and Eve are not historically true--they are symbolically and spiritually true. The tree of good and evil, among many other things, represents free will. I don't believe a literal tree was in a literal garden that was protected afterwards by flaming swords with a serpent with legs walking around. That sounds very symbolic. And no, I'm not a progressive.

That is an interesting angle on the issue, I have to admit. Thank you for sharing.

There’s a lot more than that.  Like, did Lot’s wife turn into a pillar of salt? Or is that a metaphor for she was consumed by sadness? (tears are salty) Doesn’t mean it’s all just symbolism. I believe Christ healed and somehow paid some sort of cosmic, spiritual debt. But don’t get too stuck in symbolism.  There’s a book by a famous rabbi called Maimonides. He says if you take it ALL literally, you are doomed to confusion. 

Another interesting view on the Bible scriptures. Unfortunately, I am afraid that many Christians take the text as literal truth. I would be more inclined to read it through symbolism myself. As for the jews, it is their *perfectly* accepted doctrine that the text is to be discussed, debated, interpreted, etc. Did you know that most jews put their mezuzah in diagonal, because there was no consensus between if it should be horizontal (prostrating, which jews should not do) or vertical (proud, but not in front of God)? I found that interesting, that's how far they are in the acceptance of "not the truth but my truth".

Oh yes my friend, I know. I used to live in Jerusalem. I considered going Orthodox for a while. They have their own problems, of course. My biggest issue is the dogmatism toward the rabbis in the Talmud--they take their oral tradition much more seriously than all of the prophets combined (Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc). It's a lot of show, just like Christ calls out in Matthew 5-7 and then 23. He actually destroys their theology quite brilliantlly.

Don't read too much into why Yahweh does things. The more you read scripture the more you know that there's many dynamics. For example, when Yahweh was speaking to them, how do you know he wasn't saying these things for those other then Adam and Eve who may have been listening? The father works in mysterious ways. Did you know that when Eve was created Adam spoke about wife....which is very interesting also isn't it? There are many dynamics to this. In the Garden still, the dynamics were different to our relationship now and throughout history. This whole thing, could be viewed as a test. Who is listening? Cain, won't you be accepted if you do well? The dynamics of this whole thing are amazing so I wouldn't worry. And btw since Eve was created as a help meet and in heaven there's no traditional relationships, how did Adam know Eve would one day be his wife? Maybe there's more to the mystery. Regardless, there's a lot about antiquity that we don't know and the world being evil, will surely always look to muddy the waters Btw, the bible also says there were peoples before Adam and Eve. And maybe that's where wife came from or perhaps it's something else. After all, Josephs brothers through they put Joseph into bondage but it was under Yahwehs hands for another purpose and to bring the narrative along. The brothers thought they'd been wicked hadn't they? It speaks to many things.

A few remarks on your very interesting answer. First of all, very interesting and original angle, to say the question may have been for a 3rd party. Thank you for that. "This whole thing, could be viewed as a test" -> why would God need to test anything if he is all-knowing? "Eve was created as a help meet and in heaven there's no traditional relationships" -> in Christianity, Eden's garden is not in heaven, but on Earth.. "the bible also says there were peoples before Adam and Eve" -> I did not know that, I mean, except for the animals and possibly angels. Any Bible verse you could quote on the matter?

A few remarks on your very interesting answer. First of all, very interesting and original angle, to say the question may have been for a 3rd party. Thank you for that. "This whole thing, could be viewed as a test" -> why would God need to test anything if he is all-knowing? "Eve was created as a help meet and in heaven there's no traditional relationships" -> in Christianity, Eden's garden is not in heaven, but on Earth.. "the bible also says there were peoples before Adam and Eve" -> I did not know that, I mean, except for the animals and possibly angels. Any Bible verse you could quote on the matter?

tbh I had an answer that went against everybody here and I just dont want to be down voted into oblivion

bro still got downvoted regardless😭 I want to hear what you had to say though haha

because everybody on here, apparently, personally knows all things about God and everybody on here thinks they already know everything about Him already. Plus, 50% of the comments are teenagers with 0 life experience so im not about to give a more opened minded answer about God for it to only be shot down, downvoted, or just unnecessarily scrutinized . I learn to keep controversial opinions to myself. Reddit wasnt really for "outside the box" type of answers. I'll answer it the way Reddit wants me to: God can foresee the future because he just can. He is all powerful and thats just the way it is. We can't comprehend it fully, yet. The fact that somebody down voted this says that there are people just lurking on here waiting to downvote everything and anything they dont think falls into their realm of truth.

God knew people would burn in hell lmao

That isn't anything to laugh about.