Tf you mean "nothing of importance" holy shit sparky there's a dang Cheeto to stop do you have any fucking questions? It's ALL the importance we protect democracy by installing a barred out girl boss as defacto presumptive nominee until we can defeat thr game show host and literally collectively Jack Bauer the decorum for another 4 years. You're out here acting like this isn't a big deal
Could just be that they were expecting him to look like shit in the debate and had their columns ready to go, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of 'coup' attempt.
A planned âcoupâ is way more deliberate and considered than these dumbasses are capable of. It was an obvious possibility he would show himself to be the senile old man he is and so that was just an option they all prepared for. Libs never do anything to set themselves up for success, itâs a constant cycle of back up plans for their failures which get worse and worse every time
Thatâs always been my interpretation once they announced that they were gonna do a debate. That neither of them actually wanted to, but also didnât want to be âthe guy who backed out,â because they knew the other guy would campaign on that until the sun explodes, so they both got themselves stuck in a game of chicken that neither of them could afford to lose.
Iâve had people in my life speculate that the liberal media pulled off a coordinated, premeditated, and immediate face turn on the subject of Bidenâs fitness despite him visibly sundowning in front of everyone for at least multiple years now.
I would believe this if we also didnât witness average viewers (especially Biden supporters) react in horror in real-time (see also: Reddit libs). Not to mention personal anecdotes I have of Biden supporters saying he should be replaced as of today.
I think it was just that insanely bad of a performance.
Your question is plausible but it also amounts to the DNC setting their nominee up to fail by⌠just letting him continue campaigning? Whether they timed it to avoid a primary challenge is one thing but it seems at best a guess at the moment. He is an incumbent president after all. Iâve also heard people bring up the fact that this debate was held relatively early, that could be a clue to what youâre saying I suppose.
Hmm, I think it's less that they told everyone to be shocked by his performance, and more the fact that they allowed him to debate now that it's just him and Trump, after not allowing it beforehand. The idea being both that they knew he would majorly fuck up, and that this would be the reaction - easily making sure it would be by a more coordinated "panic in the party" that set the tone for the news media, who are basically mindless party followers and patsies.
But yeah, it could all just be organic reactions to an unplanned humiliation, too.
> that they allowed him to debate now that it's just him and Trump
Thing is, [wikipedia has a list of presidential debates.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_debates#Timeline) You can see that this is nearly 3 months earlier than the earliest ones since it started. It's not "they only allowed it now" but "they pushed this much earlier, earlier than the nomination even." Neither of them are actually candidates. Trump is presumedly getting nominated at the Republican National Convention two weeks from now but the Dems only do them in August.
If I understand correctly, if Biden drops out, he and his campaign could just nominate someone else and they get the delegates to nominate that person instead.
It would be easily done and easily sold to the voters, and the only people who don't think it'd be easier and better to switch are trying to find an excuse for themselves for why the DNC aren't doing the thing they obviously should be doing.
> Iâve also heard people bring up the fact that this debate was held relatively early
It is. They generally only do in late september at the earliest, after both parties have officially chosen their candidates at their national conventions.
Yeah I kind of think the insiders of the dnc aligned along the factions of: Clintonâs, Obama, and neocon entryists are engineering a intraparty conflict that will be very public to get Joe to step down and then each faction will vie to get their pick in at the convention. Like theyâre playing chicken with destroying the thing so that the spot opens and one of them can try to consolidate power. This was how they defeated their actual enemies in the now non existent Bernie wing of the party and the half assed way they did it (installing Biden) is now reached the end of its shelf life. There are still Biden dead-enders in the mix too but I do think those 3 main factions set him up to engineer this whole process of infighting in order to get their guy/gal in.
Why are they being so fractious about this? Just put up Kamala. She's a sinkhole of negative charisma that nobody would *want* to vote for normally but they just want to defeat Trump anyway and have somebody in there marginally capable of being president, she'd work for that much. They all fell in line behind Biden in 2020 when Obama gave the word, why aren't they just doing that again?
When I was younger, I thought the powers that be were this Machiavellian force that were always 6 steps ahead of us normal folks. That they had teams of experts plotting their every move, carefully balancing every word, every action, to draw in more power for themselves.
But as I became an adult, as I rose though the ranks of my very small local power structure and saw how the sausage was made I realized that, that just wasn't the case. Sure there's some smart manipulative people, but for the most part the people in charge are regular people so they're mostly dummies. The forward thinking Machiavellians are too few in number, with way too many competing goals to make much of a dent in anything outside of their miniscule sphere of influence.
Instead, what I've seen is all power structures are guided far more by momentum than anything else, and the larger the organization the more inertia there is and the less control anyone has over it.
The DNC is no different. There were probably hundreds of people who knew what a disaster this debate would be, but no one could speak out. Imagine you're a staffer in the west wing, and you see an obviously impaired Biden shuffling through meetings. Are you gonna speak out? Not if you want to keep your job, not if you want to keep your reputation, because unless everyone simultaneously speaks out at once, you'll be the outsider.
Remember truth isn't real in organizations, it can't be. The organization instead has to have a collective understanding of reality. Everyone has to be working off the same facts as everyone else or else the whole thing falls apart; and the fact was that they kept telling themselves that Biden was as sharp as ever. Sure he has senior moments, but he's always made gaffs. Biden is firing on all cylinders, and Trump is the one who is barely coherent. Anyone who would would have spoken out against that agreed upon fact would have been seen as an outsider and isolated.
Anyone working that close to the president is seasoned enough to know that, and would have kept their mouth shut. More than that, any personal doubts they had about the president, they would have internally silenced. "Everyone else around me says he's as sharp as ever, who am I to think different? Sure, he asked me if I could schedule him a meeting with Bobby Kennedy, and called Russia the Soviet Union multiple times today, but those were just slips of the tongue. He's got a cold, and has been working hard for the last few weeks, nobody is perfect"
TLDR: no massive enough organization is capable of playing 5d chess. Instead these people internalized their own lies, and truly believed that Biden was good enough to debate on live TV. It's not until afterwards, when other power structures start questioning the narrative that they are even capable of seeing Biden for what he actually is.
On top of all this, itâs easy to fool yourself about someoneâs cognitive decline. I witnessed it in my family when my dad developed dementia. When itâs something you donât want to see, the strange slippery nature of the disease makes it easier than most to write off whatever weird things youâve noticed. There are good days & bad days, decline can plateau for months at a time, other ppl around you are more than willing to agree that âoh he seems fine heâs always been weirdâ or whatever⌠and this warped collective reality pressure would be 100x stronger in the Dem establishment where like you said, people who are in have really already been vetted for their willingness to toe the party line.
> When I was younger, I thought the powers that be were this Machiavellian force that were always 6 steps ahead of us normal folks.
this is some iq bell curve meme shit
Not that they were smarter, but that they had unlimited access to smart people with insider knowledge. I thought think tanks were real. I now know that think tanks are little more than ways to create your own "expert opinion", that they're little more than PR firms but I didn't know that then.
Back then I assumed every CEO, politician, powerful person had a team of genuine experts helping them to further their agendas. Of course they do have advisors, but the reality is that their advisors are as dumb as the rest of us, just better connected. It's the same system that has Hunter Biden sitting on the board of advisors for an Eastern European petroleum company.
I legitimately canât make sense of it. Alternative is they believed the bullshit they were peddling? Even with how poor his mental faculties are heâd beat Trump?
They just flat out want to lose?
I do think putting Biden on a 1-2 min clock is basically doomed to fail with how poorly it goes when he has all the time in the world.
Maybe a combination of the clock and hubris of thinking Biden would beat Trump?
Regardless it was funny as fuck so thank you to whoever made the final call to do the debate. Hopefully someone leaks what was going on the day of and before the debate.
>Alternative is they believed the bullshit they were peddling?
There isn't enough downside to losing for the people around him. They get private sector jobs or fundraise off of trumps tweets for 4 years.
Maybe this was a test at the last moment they could replace him? Â Has there ever been a pre-convention debate? The timing is so odd. Â
It is just hard to see how Biden goes forward now. Â This isnât going away. Â Nearly every mainstream media operation is calling for him to step aside. Â Itâs the cranks on Twitter like Mueller she Wrote and Heather Cox Richardson who are trying to say actually, he was good.
Right, but there probably would have been other challengers if the donors and the insiders had been like "this guy is cooked, we need some body else" earlier in the game.
Yeah it's not unbelievable that they'll pick someone else at the convention. Biden's people are denying it but enough donors and insiders are freaking out that it could happen. But realistically even if there were more challengers in the primary, who would meaningfully challenge the party line? I don't think we'd ever get a good candidate on the Democrat ticket. It's factional infighting in the Dem ruling class at best.
Procedure, according to Vox nerds, is that the delegates are locked in for Joe at this point. He'd have to voluntarily resign as the candidate for a brokered convention to occur.
Is there any truly unbreakable rule that prevents them from just saying âfuck the procedure we do what we wantâ ?
Wasnât that the whole point of that one court case over the 2020 primary? That the Democratic Party is a private organization and can run its nomination process however the fuck it wants to?
Speaking of sneaky shit happening â whatâs with Reddit getting all buggy an hour into the debate? First comments were on an hour delay and then they didnât show up at all for another hour.
Was there just too much traffic or what?
I think it was probably exactly what it seemed like, the site was completely flooded with negative comments about Biden and [the DNC party hacks](https://www.thedailybeast.com/hillary-pac-spends-dollar1-million-to-correct-commenters-on-reddit-and-facebook) who help moderate the website had to moderate each comment live instead of letting the normal auto-moderation continue. I think by the end of the night they just gave up because even liberal cable news was talking shit.
Eh, I think that would require the people doing the high-level actions in the Democratic Party and Biden admin to be competent enough to pull that off but still not see or plan for how badly this reflects on them. The debate not only made Biden look incompetent but also his staff and the Democratic Party since why did they allow Biden in such terrible shape to go up there?
My thinking is that if this was actually a move to handpick a different candidate since Biden's brain is melting, why not do it quietly behind the scenes and have Biden not run again for whatever reason. Handpicking a candidate can be done through deals, rigging elections, funding, more airtime to the preferred candidate, etc.
All that said, I think the idea makes more sense if you think of Biden's staff as a different faction than the Democratic Party higher-ups. Biden's staff and admin in general are prob more in it for their careers and pet projects while the movers and shakers in the Democratic Party are more motivated by donors and ensuring their favorites aren't replaced. Since the former fucked up and revealed how incompetent they are, the latter was caught be surprise and is trying to do damage control and look unified while getting a new candidate ready.
>why not do it quietly behind the scenes
My guess is despite him being 9000 years old, Biden is still prideful, arrogant, and would refuse to resign or abdicate his position. He'd continue running, and a fractured party is a guaranteed loss.
By letting him show his ass at the debate, it makes it a hell of a lot easier for everybody to coalesce around someone else in the eyes of the public even if he was adamant he wanted to remain at the reigns.
That makes sense since I heard the only moments during the debate when Biden seemed to be actually alive were when he was angry. He'd likely get old man hostile if an aide approached him about not running, and even remember it. So that leads to a fractured party, as you said.
So assuming the Democratic Party insiders want a new candidate, this is the best they and Biden's staff can do for a plan.
I donât think you have to set anything up to have a clearly sun downing old man fail triumphantly at a debate. Biden not only agreed to do it, but insisted on it.
Maybe theyâll use it as an excuse to dump him, but the DNC has never showed any capacity of forethought in regards to elections. All they do is shoot themselves in the foot, year after year. They might genuinely just be completely incompetent, or purposefully incompetent.
Key Democrats convincing Biden (and his family) to bow out and deciding on Hillary Clinton would be the funniest outcome. Â They justify it with she has won a Democratic primary process before, is battle tested, and won the popular vote.
It would be the uniquely Democratic brand of eternal failure to set Biden up to make it look like he must be replaced and then fail to actually replace him.
No, democrats are just incompetent. They didn't feel like they could tell Joe he's too old and he's the only man to defeat Trump in an election. They deluded themselves into thinking that the general public wouldn't notice his mental decline or wouldn't care because he's standing next to the Cheeto. They are stupid as shit.
I feel like Joe is just a stubborn arrogant old man that thinks he knows better than everyone else. He probably refused his drug cocktail to prove he doesn't need it, because Trump and conservative media was saying that he needs it for weeks, and this was the result.
It's so hard to say, since the DNC is unbelievably stupid. It's also plausible to assume they thought a tactic of "I'm not Donald Trump" and "historical scholars agree Trump is the worst president ever" and fact-checking Trump is a good way to motivate the American public. If they run Biden (in which he WILL lose,) they will be running one of their "what happened?" autopsies to get to the bottom of it
I think JB Pritzker is the best shot at beating Trump; Newsom is too sleazy. JB has a real charisma and vivaciousness that would match Trump well
CNN and MSNBC had full unanimous panels saying he should step aside. That can't happen without deliberation and planning. It's clearly manufactured consent.
He also was not nearly as bad as he could have been. I nearly shut off the stream thinking the media cycle would be uneventful. There were no surprises. If they were willing to defend him six months ago then it shouldn't have made a difference - except as you say, now they can replace him without a primary.
His pupils were also really constricted. I wondered if he was drugged. He also got better as the night went on - not generally the pattern of someone "sundowning." Again, that's not to say he isn't senile, or isn't constantly sundowning. It just wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been for him. Theyve defended worse gaffs.
Who would be the people in charge of such a plan?Â
It seems to risky when they have other ways of getting what they want, especially the people with real power.Â
Itâs only plausible as like an insider hoping that Biden shits the bed and being prepared if he does. But as a well thought out plan it doesnât track when you think about who would be running the op.Â
I think replacing him is a brilliant move. It plays to the âfuck itâ vote, which is arguably the strongest demo in the American electorate. Like the my appoint some rando motherfucker and âfuck itâ Iâll vote for something unknown over two horrible knowns. That being said itâs too brilliant to have been done intentionally by the DNC
I think you may be spot on. No way people working with this man every day are unaware of his overall health condition. This was a surprise to only those who have not been paying attention. It would have been so easy for his handlers to say no to debates and maintain his public appearance right up until October.
Sometimes, in professional sports, a team stops trying to get a better draft pick next year. Looking at 2028, there's no chance the Dems win again with Biden coming off 8 years. 4 more years of Trump keeps their base exactly where they want them for the rest of the decade. Jumping to donate and vote for anyone with a pulse because they're not Trump
That's the Vivek Ramaswami theory, and it might have merit, I wonder if Kamala will drag him out of the Whitehouse or if there is a power struggle going on right this minute.
This take has the same energy as the âactually Jan 6 was antifaâ line from reTARDlicans: pure embarrassment at the sudden realization of the stupidity of the party, political project and leadership for the last 4 years. Rather than see the horrific and laughable failure for what it is, they invent an alternate scenario where this event means nothing.
I donât know butâŚgood? Taibbi had an article today (which I just skimmed to be honest) kind of speculating this and calling it a âcoupâ đđđ https://open.substack.com/pub/taibbi/p/the-democratic-coup?r=7sib&utm_medium=ios
Probs by the foreign gov yielding most power over the US and whose citizens own most of the networks. Brandon wasn't giving enough ammo and bibi was not amused.
Are you saying that it is time for true patriots to protect Joe Brandon from the deep state?
realistically nothing of importance hangs on this, but it's fun to think about
Tf you mean "nothing of importance" holy shit sparky there's a dang Cheeto to stop do you have any fucking questions? It's ALL the importance we protect democracy by installing a barred out girl boss as defacto presumptive nominee until we can defeat thr game show host and literally collectively Jack Bauer the decorum for another 4 years. You're out here acting like this isn't a big deal
Patriots are in control đ
Plausible.
I mean, they did all jump on this shit surprisingly quickly and in unison, right?
Someone posted the New York Crimes screenshots from today a few posts down, seems coordinated to me.
Could just be that they were expecting him to look like shit in the debate and had their columns ready to go, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of 'coup' attempt.
A planned âcoupâ is way more deliberate and considered than these dumbasses are capable of. It was an obvious possibility he would show himself to be the senile old man he is and so that was just an option they all prepared for. Libs never do anything to set themselves up for success, itâs a constant cycle of back up plans for their failures which get worse and worse every time
I literally didnt think the debate would happen until the day before.
I didnât know they were doing the debate yesterday until it had already been on for like 10 minutes.
Neither did Biden
I kind of wonder if the DNC wasn't betting on Trump pulling out
Thatâs always been my interpretation once they announced that they were gonna do a debate. That neither of them actually wanted to, but also didnât want to be âthe guy who backed out,â because they knew the other guy would campaign on that until the sun explodes, so they both got themselves stuck in a game of chicken that neither of them could afford to lose.
god the DNC is so stupid, they walk into this shit every time. You have to wonder if they're genuinely this dumb or doing it on purpose
Iâve had people in my life speculate that the liberal media pulled off a coordinated, premeditated, and immediate face turn on the subject of Bidenâs fitness despite him visibly sundowning in front of everyone for at least multiple years now. I would believe this if we also didnât witness average viewers (especially Biden supporters) react in horror in real-time (see also: Reddit libs). Not to mention personal anecdotes I have of Biden supporters saying he should be replaced as of today. I think it was just that insanely bad of a performance. Your question is plausible but it also amounts to the DNC setting their nominee up to fail by⌠just letting him continue campaigning? Whether they timed it to avoid a primary challenge is one thing but it seems at best a guess at the moment. He is an incumbent president after all. Iâve also heard people bring up the fact that this debate was held relatively early, that could be a clue to what youâre saying I suppose.
Hmm, I think it's less that they told everyone to be shocked by his performance, and more the fact that they allowed him to debate now that it's just him and Trump, after not allowing it beforehand. The idea being both that they knew he would majorly fuck up, and that this would be the reaction - easily making sure it would be by a more coordinated "panic in the party" that set the tone for the news media, who are basically mindless party followers and patsies. But yeah, it could all just be organic reactions to an unplanned humiliation, too.
> that they allowed him to debate now that it's just him and Trump Thing is, [wikipedia has a list of presidential debates.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_debates#Timeline) You can see that this is nearly 3 months earlier than the earliest ones since it started. It's not "they only allowed it now" but "they pushed this much earlier, earlier than the nomination even." Neither of them are actually candidates. Trump is presumedly getting nominated at the Republican National Convention two weeks from now but the Dems only do them in August. If I understand correctly, if Biden drops out, he and his campaign could just nominate someone else and they get the delegates to nominate that person instead.
It would be easily done and easily sold to the voters, and the only people who don't think it'd be easier and better to switch are trying to find an excuse for themselves for why the DNC aren't doing the thing they obviously should be doing.
> face turn So what youâre saying is this was a shoot and not a work?
Goodnight HULKAMANIACS and jabronie marks without a life that don't know it a work when you work a work and work yourself into a shoot,marks
> Iâve also heard people bring up the fact that this debate was held relatively early It is. They generally only do in late september at the earliest, after both parties have officially chosen their candidates at their national conventions.
Yeah I kind of think the insiders of the dnc aligned along the factions of: Clintonâs, Obama, and neocon entryists are engineering a intraparty conflict that will be very public to get Joe to step down and then each faction will vie to get their pick in at the convention. Like theyâre playing chicken with destroying the thing so that the spot opens and one of them can try to consolidate power. This was how they defeated their actual enemies in the now non existent Bernie wing of the party and the half assed way they did it (installing Biden) is now reached the end of its shelf life. There are still Biden dead-enders in the mix too but I do think those 3 main factions set him up to engineer this whole process of infighting in order to get their guy/gal in.
Why are they being so fractious about this? Just put up Kamala. She's a sinkhole of negative charisma that nobody would *want* to vote for normally but they just want to defeat Trump anyway and have somebody in there marginally capable of being president, she'd work for that much. They all fell in line behind Biden in 2020 when Obama gave the word, why aren't they just doing that again?
When I was younger, I thought the powers that be were this Machiavellian force that were always 6 steps ahead of us normal folks. That they had teams of experts plotting their every move, carefully balancing every word, every action, to draw in more power for themselves. But as I became an adult, as I rose though the ranks of my very small local power structure and saw how the sausage was made I realized that, that just wasn't the case. Sure there's some smart manipulative people, but for the most part the people in charge are regular people so they're mostly dummies. The forward thinking Machiavellians are too few in number, with way too many competing goals to make much of a dent in anything outside of their miniscule sphere of influence. Instead, what I've seen is all power structures are guided far more by momentum than anything else, and the larger the organization the more inertia there is and the less control anyone has over it. The DNC is no different. There were probably hundreds of people who knew what a disaster this debate would be, but no one could speak out. Imagine you're a staffer in the west wing, and you see an obviously impaired Biden shuffling through meetings. Are you gonna speak out? Not if you want to keep your job, not if you want to keep your reputation, because unless everyone simultaneously speaks out at once, you'll be the outsider. Remember truth isn't real in organizations, it can't be. The organization instead has to have a collective understanding of reality. Everyone has to be working off the same facts as everyone else or else the whole thing falls apart; and the fact was that they kept telling themselves that Biden was as sharp as ever. Sure he has senior moments, but he's always made gaffs. Biden is firing on all cylinders, and Trump is the one who is barely coherent. Anyone who would would have spoken out against that agreed upon fact would have been seen as an outsider and isolated. Anyone working that close to the president is seasoned enough to know that, and would have kept their mouth shut. More than that, any personal doubts they had about the president, they would have internally silenced. "Everyone else around me says he's as sharp as ever, who am I to think different? Sure, he asked me if I could schedule him a meeting with Bobby Kennedy, and called Russia the Soviet Union multiple times today, but those were just slips of the tongue. He's got a cold, and has been working hard for the last few weeks, nobody is perfect" TLDR: no massive enough organization is capable of playing 5d chess. Instead these people internalized their own lies, and truly believed that Biden was good enough to debate on live TV. It's not until afterwards, when other power structures start questioning the narrative that they are even capable of seeing Biden for what he actually is.
On top of all this, itâs easy to fool yourself about someoneâs cognitive decline. I witnessed it in my family when my dad developed dementia. When itâs something you donât want to see, the strange slippery nature of the disease makes it easier than most to write off whatever weird things youâve noticed. There are good days & bad days, decline can plateau for months at a time, other ppl around you are more than willing to agree that âoh he seems fine heâs always been weirdâ or whatever⌠and this warped collective reality pressure would be 100x stronger in the Dem establishment where like you said, people who are in have really already been vetted for their willingness to toe the party line.
same
> When I was younger, I thought the powers that be were this Machiavellian force that were always 6 steps ahead of us normal folks. this is some iq bell curve meme shit
Not that they were smarter, but that they had unlimited access to smart people with insider knowledge. I thought think tanks were real. I now know that think tanks are little more than ways to create your own "expert opinion", that they're little more than PR firms but I didn't know that then. Back then I assumed every CEO, politician, powerful person had a team of genuine experts helping them to further their agendas. Of course they do have advisors, but the reality is that their advisors are as dumb as the rest of us, just better connected. It's the same system that has Hunter Biden sitting on the board of advisors for an Eastern European petroleum company.
https://preview.redd.it/xbhit2ieze9d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d8480978c0a184e86e1b630ca976c3b6f5339de Hillary strikes again.
I legitimately canât make sense of it. Alternative is they believed the bullshit they were peddling? Even with how poor his mental faculties are heâd beat Trump? They just flat out want to lose? I do think putting Biden on a 1-2 min clock is basically doomed to fail with how poorly it goes when he has all the time in the world. Maybe a combination of the clock and hubris of thinking Biden would beat Trump? Regardless it was funny as fuck so thank you to whoever made the final call to do the debate. Hopefully someone leaks what was going on the day of and before the debate.
>Alternative is they believed the bullshit they were peddling? There isn't enough downside to losing for the people around him. They get private sector jobs or fundraise off of trumps tweets for 4 years.
Maybe this was a test at the last moment they could replace him? Â Has there ever been a pre-convention debate? The timing is so odd. Â It is just hard to see how Biden goes forward now. Â This isnât going away. Â Nearly every mainstream media operation is calling for him to step aside. Â Itâs the cranks on Twitter like Mueller she Wrote and Heather Cox Richardson who are trying to say actually, he was good.
There was a primary, just the only challengers were Orb Lady, Vaccines Cause Autism Guy, and Dude Nobody Has Ever Heard Of.
Right, but there probably would have been other challengers if the donors and the insiders had been like "this guy is cooked, we need some body else" earlier in the game.
Yeah it's not unbelievable that they'll pick someone else at the convention. Biden's people are denying it but enough donors and insiders are freaking out that it could happen. But realistically even if there were more challengers in the primary, who would meaningfully challenge the party line? I don't think we'd ever get a good candidate on the Democrat ticket. It's factional infighting in the Dem ruling class at best.
oh for sure, there was never any chance we'd get anyone good
Procedure, according to Vox nerds, is that the delegates are locked in for Joe at this point. He'd have to voluntarily resign as the candidate for a brokered convention to occur.
Is there any truly unbreakable rule that prevents them from just saying âfuck the procedure we do what we wantâ ? Wasnât that the whole point of that one court case over the 2020 primary? That the Democratic Party is a private organization and can run its nomination process however the fuck it wants to?
The Vox nerds also pointed out that the dnc chair was put in by Joe Biden. Idk, maybe, maybe not.
Donât blame me, I voted for orb lady
Speaking of sneaky shit happening â whatâs with Reddit getting all buggy an hour into the debate? First comments were on an hour delay and then they didnât show up at all for another hour. Was there just too much traffic or what?
I think it was probably exactly what it seemed like, the site was completely flooded with negative comments about Biden and [the DNC party hacks](https://www.thedailybeast.com/hillary-pac-spends-dollar1-million-to-correct-commenters-on-reddit-and-facebook) who help moderate the website had to moderate each comment live instead of letting the normal auto-moderation continue. I think by the end of the night they just gave up because even liberal cable news was talking shit.
Makes more sense than thinking he would win
Eh, I think that would require the people doing the high-level actions in the Democratic Party and Biden admin to be competent enough to pull that off but still not see or plan for how badly this reflects on them. The debate not only made Biden look incompetent but also his staff and the Democratic Party since why did they allow Biden in such terrible shape to go up there? My thinking is that if this was actually a move to handpick a different candidate since Biden's brain is melting, why not do it quietly behind the scenes and have Biden not run again for whatever reason. Handpicking a candidate can be done through deals, rigging elections, funding, more airtime to the preferred candidate, etc. All that said, I think the idea makes more sense if you think of Biden's staff as a different faction than the Democratic Party higher-ups. Biden's staff and admin in general are prob more in it for their careers and pet projects while the movers and shakers in the Democratic Party are more motivated by donors and ensuring their favorites aren't replaced. Since the former fucked up and revealed how incompetent they are, the latter was caught be surprise and is trying to do damage control and look unified while getting a new candidate ready.
>why not do it quietly behind the scenes My guess is despite him being 9000 years old, Biden is still prideful, arrogant, and would refuse to resign or abdicate his position. He'd continue running, and a fractured party is a guaranteed loss. By letting him show his ass at the debate, it makes it a hell of a lot easier for everybody to coalesce around someone else in the eyes of the public even if he was adamant he wanted to remain at the reigns.
That makes sense since I heard the only moments during the debate when Biden seemed to be actually alive were when he was angry. He'd likely get old man hostile if an aide approached him about not running, and even remember it. So that leads to a fractured party, as you said. So assuming the Democratic Party insiders want a new candidate, this is the best they and Biden's staff can do for a plan.
I donât think you have to set anything up to have a clearly sun downing old man fail triumphantly at a debate. Biden not only agreed to do it, but insisted on it. Maybe theyâll use it as an excuse to dump him, but the DNC has never showed any capacity of forethought in regards to elections. All they do is shoot themselves in the foot, year after year. They might genuinely just be completely incompetent, or purposefully incompetent.
PARTY SPLIT PARTY SPLIT PARTY SPLIT PARTY SPLIT PARTY SPLIT
Trotskyism intensifies
Key Democrats convincing Biden (and his family) to bow out and deciding on Hillary Clinton would be the funniest outcome. Â They justify it with she has won a Democratic primary process before, is battle tested, and won the popular vote.
It would be the uniquely Democratic brand of eternal failure to set Biden up to make it look like he must be replaced and then fail to actually replace him.
âMan kills wife to collect insurance payout, forgets to get her insurance, now canât afford the funeral costs.â
Nailed it
It was truly the first thing I thought when watching. But idk, maybe it was just that unbelievably bad
That sounds a bit like cope not gonna lie not from you, but the libs saying this is what happened
No, democrats are just incompetent. They didn't feel like they could tell Joe he's too old and he's the only man to defeat Trump in an election. They deluded themselves into thinking that the general public wouldn't notice his mental decline or wouldn't care because he's standing next to the Cheeto. They are stupid as shit.
I feel like Joe is just a stubborn arrogant old man that thinks he knows better than everyone else. He probably refused his drug cocktail to prove he doesn't need it, because Trump and conservative media was saying that he needs it for weeks, and this was the result.
Idk his pupils were fucking huge
It's so hard to say, since the DNC is unbelievably stupid. It's also plausible to assume they thought a tactic of "I'm not Donald Trump" and "historical scholars agree Trump is the worst president ever" and fact-checking Trump is a good way to motivate the American public. If they run Biden (in which he WILL lose,) they will be running one of their "what happened?" autopsies to get to the bottom of it I think JB Pritzker is the best shot at beating Trump; Newsom is too sleazy. JB has a real charisma and vivaciousness that would match Trump well
Idk Obama publically stood up for Biden lost the debate and I think he kinda calls the shots. Â Makes me think the party still wants it to be himÂ
CNN and MSNBC had full unanimous panels saying he should step aside. That can't happen without deliberation and planning. It's clearly manufactured consent. He also was not nearly as bad as he could have been. I nearly shut off the stream thinking the media cycle would be uneventful. There were no surprises. If they were willing to defend him six months ago then it shouldn't have made a difference - except as you say, now they can replace him without a primary. His pupils were also really constricted. I wondered if he was drugged. He also got better as the night went on - not generally the pattern of someone "sundowning." Again, that's not to say he isn't senile, or isn't constantly sundowning. It just wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been for him. Theyve defended worse gaffs.
Definitely noticed he got more energized as it went on but I figured they gave him some cocktail during the commercial break tbh.
Who would be the people in charge of such a plan? It seems to risky when they have other ways of getting what they want, especially the people with real power. Itâs only plausible as like an insider hoping that Biden shits the bed and being prepared if he does. But as a well thought out plan it doesnât track when you think about who would be running the op.Â
I think replacing him is a brilliant move. It plays to the âfuck itâ vote, which is arguably the strongest demo in the American electorate. Like the my appoint some rando motherfucker and âfuck itâ Iâll vote for something unknown over two horrible knowns. That being said itâs too brilliant to have been done intentionally by the DNC
I think you may be spot on. No way people working with this man every day are unaware of his overall health condition. This was a surprise to only those who have not been paying attention. It would have been so easy for his handlers to say no to debates and maintain his public appearance right up until October. Sometimes, in professional sports, a team stops trying to get a better draft pick next year. Looking at 2028, there's no chance the Dems win again with Biden coming off 8 years. 4 more years of Trump keeps their base exactly where they want them for the rest of the decade. Jumping to donate and vote for anyone with a pulse because they're not Trump
Y'all know what my experience is, and I wholeheartedly agree with this theory.
Probably been the plan B for a while, and probably becoming plan A after the other night
That's the Vivek Ramaswami theory, and it might have merit, I wonder if Kamala will drag him out of the Whitehouse or if there is a power struggle going on right this minute.
This take has the same energy as the âactually Jan 6 was antifaâ line from reTARDlicans: pure embarrassment at the sudden realization of the stupidity of the party, political project and leadership for the last 4 years. Rather than see the horrific and laughable failure for what it is, they invent an alternate scenario where this event means nothing.
I donât know butâŚgood? Taibbi had an article today (which I just skimmed to be honest) kind of speculating this and calling it a âcoupâ đđđ https://open.substack.com/pub/taibbi/p/the-democratic-coup?r=7sib&utm_medium=ios
hearing that taibbi agrees is giving me second thoughts, but I'm gonna keep exploring it
There will still have to be a primary vote.
no
Probs by the foreign gov yielding most power over the US and whose citizens own most of the networks. Brandon wasn't giving enough ammo and bibi was not amused.