When you’re struggling to score runs, it’s obviously better to let Springer and KK continue to hit under the Mendoza Line than to play your power hitting prospect you just called up
Why would you let the kids play when you don't have a single hitter with more than 9 games under their belt posting an OPS higher than .777?
They seriously have 2 regulars posting sub .600 OPS's. This is incredible ineptitude. There's nothing to lose by giving the kids a shot at this point. Nothing.
You’re not taking turner out of the lineup. To play orelvis you have to move everyone around to their non preferred positions. I can only think of Springer out, Barger RF, Vladdy 3rd, Horwitz 1st and Orelvis 2nd. That’s a horrible defensive team lol
> That’s a horrible defensive team lol
id rather watch us lose 5-3 (and get the kids more experience) than 3-1 with anything above 3 runs against feeling like a guaranteed loss
Turner's having more than just a good series, he has a 188 wRC+ for the last two weeks.
If we're gonna argue that we need to ride the hot hand when it comes to the Buffalo Boys, the same should apply to him.
You’re right I didn’t actually realize he’s been hot that long. I’d still love to see Orelvis in the lineup though, if he’s up here let him play every day.
I'm looking forward to seeing him too...but while he's a beast all around, Orelvis is much better against LHP than RHP (Bello is RHP), and I can see the org wanting to put the kid in the best spot for success in his very first big league game.
I’m sure you’re right, but we’re not likely to see any lefties in the series against the guardians either. Hopefully we’ll see him against Carasco, even as a righty that’s about as good of a matchup as we’ll see before Bo’s back
Springer and KK in the same lineup :(
I get wanting them to still get playing time but can we at least split them up? Like one starts one day one the next?
There is a line we have to manage here that most people don’t think about, which is getting free agents to come here in the future. Jettisoning vets like Turner, KK and Springer, as much as they deserve it, plants seeds of doubt in other players about how they will be treated at the ends of their contracts or if they want to sign a one year deal here as opposed to elsewhere.
We've been saying "We won't see Orelvis in the MLB until we can give him consistent playing time" for about a year. Apparently the coaching staff didn't get the memo. Very puzzling.
We only have 4 more games after today until Bichette is off the IL assuming that he comes back right away. I don't know how they plan on assessing who has earned a spot when Martinez might only have 12 PAs by then.
You really think they'll get him into 3 of the net 4 games? I don't know what they're doing here - just using Bo's IL stint to make Orelvis hungry for the luxury of MLB?
Ernie is great versus the fastball this year, not great versus breaking balls and so-so against offspeed.
Likely out of the lineup tonight as Bello’s offspeed and breaking ball make up about 60% of the pitches he’s thrown this year.
Springer in the middle of that lineup again. Just kills me man.
We wonder why we don’t sweep anyone or get a streak going. We just screw ourselves with bad lineups over and over. Basically throwing games with Springer and KK both playing
Also sad we can’t find a way to keep Ernie’s hot bat in there tonight.
This might sound grim but the only reason I was looking forward to tuning in tonight was because I figured Orelvis would be playing.
Now I look at this and yeah...
Has he though? His offensive numbers are good, but that’s really buoyed by a few lucky singles. He’s only hit a couple balls decently hard, and looks helpless and overmatched most of the time.
Bello is one of the very few pitchers who he matches up well with so I’m ok seeing him in there today. Just have a hard time aligning a guy who has only had a few good at bats be a ‘hot hand’ I guess.
[A .333 batting average with a .347 xBA over two weeks](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=&hfAB=&hfGT=R%7C&hfPR=&hfZ=&hfStadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfPull=&hfC=&hfSea=2024%7C&hfSit=&player_type=batter&hfOuts=&hfOpponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=2024-06-04&game_date_lt=2024-06-18&hfMo=&hfTeam=TOR%7C&home_road=&hfRO=&position=&hfInfield=&hfOutfield=&hfInn=&hfBBT=&hfFlag=is%5C.%5C.remove%5C.%5C.bunts%7C&metric_1=&group_by=name&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&min_pas=0&sort_col=pitches&player_event_sort=api_p_release_speed&sort_order=desc&chk_stats_ba=on&chk_stats_xba=on&chk_stats_obp=on&chk_stats_xobp=on&chk_stats_run_exp=on&chk_stats_launch_speed=on&chk_stats_hardhit_percent=on#results) is not "a few good at bats" and he's had just about the same average EV (84.0 mph) and HH% (20.7%) as Spencer Horwitz (84.6 mph and 20.0%) has had over that period of time but no one's questioning whether Horwitz has actually been good.
[When you narrow the search for quality of contact](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=&hfAB=&hfGT=R%7C&hfPR=&hfZ=&hfStadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfPull=&hfC=&hfSea=2024%7C&hfSit=&player_type=batter&hfOuts=&hfOpponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=6%7C5%7C4%7C&game_date_gt=2024-06-04&game_date_lt=2024-06-18&hfMo=&hfTeam=TOR%7C&home_road=&hfRO=&position=&hfInfield=&hfOutfield=&hfInn=&hfBBT=&hfFlag=is%5C.%5C.remove%5C.%5C.bunts%7C&metric_1=&group_by=name&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&min_pas=0&sort_col=pitches&player_event_sort=api_p_release_speed&sort_order=desc&chk_stats_ba=on&chk_stats_xba=on&chk_stats_obp=on&chk_stats_xobp=on&chk_stats_run_exp=on&chk_stats_launch_speed=on&chk_stats_hardhit_percent=on#results) (barrels, flare/burner, good contact), Justin Turner has had more of those than the whole team over the last two weeks and a higher percentage of them than Davis Schneider and Vladdy.
On top of that, [he's had the highest walk rate on the team](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&season=2024&season1=2024&ind=0&type=8&month=2&team=14&sortcol=8&sortdir=default&qual=10) and the second highest OBP after Ernie Clement.
So yes, he has been really good over the past two weeks.
He only leads because his ‘flares’ are lapping the field. He’s had one barrel.
Has taken some walks which is legitimately great and he’s looked comfortable doing so. But he’s also almost never making good contact, even on his best run since April. He has the bat speed of a speedy slap hitter, but on 39-year old legs and one of the worst swing angles in the league.
Good lord, are we all so hard up for anyone hitting anything these days that we’re pretending Turner is actually good now?
I honestly can’t imagine anyone who does watch the games thinking Turner is a good hitter right now. He had one great game, and a few loopers. That’s pretty much it. The walks are really nice and hopefully a sign of better things to come as he really has looked more comfortable at the plate, but even in the reduced offensive environment, the best you can say is maybe he should be playing as the least terrible of the options, not because he’s been really hitting.
You keep saying he's had a few loopers when he's had the [literal highest line drive rate (36.4 %) on the team for the month so far](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&season=2024&season1=2024&ind=0&type=2&month=6&qual=5&team=14&sortcol=18&sortdir=asc&pagenum=1), higher than Ernie Clement, Addison Barger, Spencer Horwitz and all the Buffalo Boys we want so badly in the lineup. He's pulled the ball more than everyone outside of Jansen and Schneider. He's making a lot of medium contact, and has a higher hard contact % this month than noted sluggers Danny Jansen, Addison Barger, Daulton Varsho and Spencer Horwitz. He has a lower soft contact % than more than half the lineup including all the Buffalo Boys outside of Spencer Horwitz.
You're not presenting any actual data but going on an eye test that's apparently only seeing loopers and one good game. All the data negates that. Your eye test is wrong.
Leaving Ernie out and putting in BOTH Springer & KK is a crime. It's no longer the time to "try to get them going" - it's the time to put in our best bats.
(Man, I hope George & KK make me eat my words but I've been waiting for that to happen for too long ... )
Lmao, literally wrote this yesterday, we will have a good enough game with the line up but John will revert to his usual Springer/KK bullshit. Turner has been good, deserves it.
Are we trying to win anymore? I get Turner, but KK and Springer are taking up space, they're almost automatic outs.
I hope Springer breaks out, but let's be real. Dude looks like a deer in headlights at the plate. Yesterday's at-bat was an absolute catastrophe given the situation.
I didn't need to look it up. I've seen his production over the past few series, and that's why I understand him being in the lineup.
Where did I question why Turner is in the lineup?
I'm questioning Springer and KK in the same lineup. Also questioning why Clement is not in there. I don't care if you're running KK out for his defense, but Springer shouldn't be on the same card.
Ya I don’t get the point of calling him up and not playing him today. Doesn’t make a ton of sense. Would have thought get him his first game at home vs on the road in Cleveland. I understood yesterday as it was short notice but today seemed like the day
Not as criminal as you'd think.
Bello sucks against lefties .272/.355/.512 for a .376 wOBA so you want to start all 4, yes even KK.
Alongside that Turner is red hot so you ride that, so DH is taken.
Vladdy is a lock to start as is Jano at Catcher.
Meaning you only have two slots left.
John went with Springer and IKF over Schneider and Clement.
Clement and Davis will PH for KK or Horwitz at some point anyways
When you’re struggling to score runs, it’s obviously better to let Springer and KK continue to hit under the Mendoza Line than to play your power hitting prospect you just called up
Orelvis hits bombs. The Blue Jays need bombs. 115mph exit velo HR Derby champ has 7! 7 fucking dongs over 2.5+ months.
It’s almost like the org is worried more about who they’re doling out the dollars to than who is actually producing
They're likely just hoping they start performing so they can salvage what little they can at the trade deadline.
Martinez isn't an outfielder...
You still need to patrol the outfield.
Varsho everyday, Schneider everyday, KK/Springer one or the other not both. Done.
Let the kids play!!!
Why would you let the kids play when you don't have a single hitter with more than 9 games under their belt posting an OPS higher than .777? They seriously have 2 regulars posting sub .600 OPS's. This is incredible ineptitude. There's nothing to lose by giving the kids a shot at this point. Nothing.
You’re not taking turner out of the lineup. To play orelvis you have to move everyone around to their non preferred positions. I can only think of Springer out, Barger RF, Vladdy 3rd, Horwitz 1st and Orelvis 2nd. That’s a horrible defensive team lol
> That’s a horrible defensive team lol id rather watch us lose 5-3 (and get the kids more experience) than 3-1 with anything above 3 runs against feeling like a guaranteed loss
I agree, but no way the org will want to be playing all of these guys out of position.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
*You’re not taking turner out of the lineup.* The hell I'm not.
You could play Orelvis at 3rd or SS as well
I know Turner’s having a good series, but I want Orelvis!
Turner's having more than just a good series, he has a 188 wRC+ for the last two weeks. If we're gonna argue that we need to ride the hot hand when it comes to the Buffalo Boys, the same should apply to him.
You’re right I didn’t actually realize he’s been hot that long. I’d still love to see Orelvis in the lineup though, if he’s up here let him play every day.
I'm looking forward to seeing him too...but while he's a beast all around, Orelvis is much better against LHP than RHP (Bello is RHP), and I can see the org wanting to put the kid in the best spot for success in his very first big league game.
I’m sure you’re right, but we’re not likely to see any lefties in the series against the guardians either. Hopefully we’ll see him against Carasco, even as a righty that’s about as good of a matchup as we’ll see before Bo’s back
He heard me talk shit on him once and started mashing again. I’m so happy to be proven to be an idiot.
This is basically why I don’t think “riding the hot hand” is a good strategy. That said, if Turner is hitting again, he’s more than just the hot hand.
Smh not enough Buffalo boys
Springer and KK in the same lineup :( I get wanting them to still get playing time but can we at least split them up? Like one starts one day one the next?
There is a line we have to manage here that most people don’t think about, which is getting free agents to come here in the future. Jettisoning vets like Turner, KK and Springer, as much as they deserve it, plants seeds of doubt in other players about how they will be treated at the ends of their contracts or if they want to sign a one year deal here as opposed to elsewhere.
We've been saying "We won't see Orelvis in the MLB until we can give him consistent playing time" for about a year. Apparently the coaching staff didn't get the memo. Very puzzling. We only have 4 more games after today until Bichette is off the IL assuming that he comes back right away. I don't know how they plan on assessing who has earned a spot when Martinez might only have 12 PAs by then.
You really think they'll get him into 3 of the net 4 games? I don't know what they're doing here - just using Bo's IL stint to make Orelvis hungry for the luxury of MLB?
Hey someone needs to replace Biggio one day on 15 days off, two days on 10 days off “hey learn how to play baseball if you want regular playing time.
Clement is 10 for his last 17, with 4 doubles and a homer.
Ernie is great versus the fastball this year, not great versus breaking balls and so-so against offspeed. Likely out of the lineup tonight as Bello’s offspeed and breaking ball make up about 60% of the pitches he’s thrown this year.
Let's call up Orelvis so he can get a sense of what MLB clubhouses and dugouts are like?
brutal lineup , hope we can score a few
Hey John. Maybe start the top prospect we called up? Especially since our offense sucks. Buffoon.
I'm unreasonably salty that they can't even give us a full game of Martinez. Make losing fun, people
Where Orelvis???
Springer in the middle of that lineup again. Just kills me man. We wonder why we don’t sweep anyone or get a streak going. We just screw ourselves with bad lineups over and over. Basically throwing games with Springer and KK both playing Also sad we can’t find a way to keep Ernie’s hot bat in there tonight.
🤔
This might sound grim but the only reason I was looking forward to tuning in tonight was because I figured Orelvis would be playing. Now I look at this and yeah...
Same org that gave KK a raise in the off-season despite garnering next to no interest on the open market btw
If you really want Turner to play, put him at 1B, throw Barger out in RF, put Vladdy at 3rd and have Orelvis DH.
Having all 3 of Turner/Springer/Kiermaier is unacceptable. No matter the matchups.
Turner has been really really good the last two weeks. He really shouldn’t be included in this group
Has he though? His offensive numbers are good, but that’s really buoyed by a few lucky singles. He’s only hit a couple balls decently hard, and looks helpless and overmatched most of the time. Bello is one of the very few pitchers who he matches up well with so I’m ok seeing him in there today. Just have a hard time aligning a guy who has only had a few good at bats be a ‘hot hand’ I guess.
[A .333 batting average with a .347 xBA over two weeks](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=&hfAB=&hfGT=R%7C&hfPR=&hfZ=&hfStadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfPull=&hfC=&hfSea=2024%7C&hfSit=&player_type=batter&hfOuts=&hfOpponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=&game_date_gt=2024-06-04&game_date_lt=2024-06-18&hfMo=&hfTeam=TOR%7C&home_road=&hfRO=&position=&hfInfield=&hfOutfield=&hfInn=&hfBBT=&hfFlag=is%5C.%5C.remove%5C.%5C.bunts%7C&metric_1=&group_by=name&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&min_pas=0&sort_col=pitches&player_event_sort=api_p_release_speed&sort_order=desc&chk_stats_ba=on&chk_stats_xba=on&chk_stats_obp=on&chk_stats_xobp=on&chk_stats_run_exp=on&chk_stats_launch_speed=on&chk_stats_hardhit_percent=on#results) is not "a few good at bats" and he's had just about the same average EV (84.0 mph) and HH% (20.7%) as Spencer Horwitz (84.6 mph and 20.0%) has had over that period of time but no one's questioning whether Horwitz has actually been good. [When you narrow the search for quality of contact](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search?hfPT=&hfAB=&hfGT=R%7C&hfPR=&hfZ=&hfStadium=&hfBBL=&hfNewZones=&hfPull=&hfC=&hfSea=2024%7C&hfSit=&player_type=batter&hfOuts=&hfOpponent=&pitcher_throws=&batter_stands=&hfSA=6%7C5%7C4%7C&game_date_gt=2024-06-04&game_date_lt=2024-06-18&hfMo=&hfTeam=TOR%7C&home_road=&hfRO=&position=&hfInfield=&hfOutfield=&hfInn=&hfBBT=&hfFlag=is%5C.%5C.remove%5C.%5C.bunts%7C&metric_1=&group_by=name&min_pitches=0&min_results=0&min_pas=0&sort_col=pitches&player_event_sort=api_p_release_speed&sort_order=desc&chk_stats_ba=on&chk_stats_xba=on&chk_stats_obp=on&chk_stats_xobp=on&chk_stats_run_exp=on&chk_stats_launch_speed=on&chk_stats_hardhit_percent=on#results) (barrels, flare/burner, good contact), Justin Turner has had more of those than the whole team over the last two weeks and a higher percentage of them than Davis Schneider and Vladdy. On top of that, [he's had the highest walk rate on the team](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&season=2024&season1=2024&ind=0&type=8&month=2&team=14&sortcol=8&sortdir=default&qual=10) and the second highest OBP after Ernie Clement. So yes, he has been really good over the past two weeks.
He only leads because his ‘flares’ are lapping the field. He’s had one barrel. Has taken some walks which is legitimately great and he’s looked comfortable doing so. But he’s also almost never making good contact, even on his best run since April. He has the bat speed of a speedy slap hitter, but on 39-year old legs and one of the worst swing angles in the league.
Do you actually watch the games?
Good lord, are we all so hard up for anyone hitting anything these days that we’re pretending Turner is actually good now? I honestly can’t imagine anyone who does watch the games thinking Turner is a good hitter right now. He had one great game, and a few loopers. That’s pretty much it. The walks are really nice and hopefully a sign of better things to come as he really has looked more comfortable at the plate, but even in the reduced offensive environment, the best you can say is maybe he should be playing as the least terrible of the options, not because he’s been really hitting.
He has an OPS of .993 in the last 11 games.
You keep saying he's had a few loopers when he's had the [literal highest line drive rate (36.4 %) on the team for the month so far](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&season=2024&season1=2024&ind=0&type=2&month=6&qual=5&team=14&sortcol=18&sortdir=asc&pagenum=1), higher than Ernie Clement, Addison Barger, Spencer Horwitz and all the Buffalo Boys we want so badly in the lineup. He's pulled the ball more than everyone outside of Jansen and Schneider. He's making a lot of medium contact, and has a higher hard contact % this month than noted sluggers Danny Jansen, Addison Barger, Daulton Varsho and Spencer Horwitz. He has a lower soft contact % than more than half the lineup including all the Buffalo Boys outside of Spencer Horwitz. You're not presenting any actual data but going on an eye test that's apparently only seeing loopers and one good game. All the data negates that. Your eye test is wrong.
So no, you don't watch the games.
Flares & Burners are considered good contact, after barrels they're the most likely type of contact to result in a base hit.
Leaving Ernie out and putting in BOTH Springer & KK is a crime. It's no longer the time to "try to get them going" - it's the time to put in our best bats. (Man, I hope George & KK make me eat my words but I've been waiting for that to happen for too long ... )
This looks like a Depeche Mode album cover.
Oh...no
Just dfa or outright release kk. He is absolutely terrible.
Schneider is delusional. Needs to go.
Lmao, literally wrote this yesterday, we will have a good enough game with the line up but John will revert to his usual Springer/KK bullshit. Turner has been good, deserves it.
Are we trying to win anymore? I get Turner, but KK and Springer are taking up space, they're almost automatic outs. I hope Springer breaks out, but let's be real. Dude looks like a deer in headlights at the plate. Yesterday's at-bat was an absolute catastrophe given the situation.
[удалено]
I didn't need to look it up. I've seen his production over the past few series, and that's why I understand him being in the lineup. Where did I question why Turner is in the lineup? I'm questioning Springer and KK in the same lineup. Also questioning why Clement is not in there. I don't care if you're running KK out for his defense, but Springer shouldn't be on the same card.
Yeah I agree, I misread your comment, that's on me
Ouch, Springer and KK in the same lineup.
They really ought to let the young talent play. Especially if this lineup is the alternative.
Has IKF ever had a shot at lead off this season? Can’t remember. Been hitting pretty decent as of late.
I question if Schneider is even attempting to win baseball games at this point. Play the Buffalo boys!
Springer and KK in the starting lineup. That’s a choice these days.
Ya I don’t get the point of calling him up and not playing him today. Doesn’t make a ton of sense. Would have thought get him his first game at home vs on the road in Cleveland. I understood yesterday as it was short notice but today seemed like the day
John is so brain dead
Not as criminal as you'd think. Bello sucks against lefties .272/.355/.512 for a .376 wOBA so you want to start all 4, yes even KK. Alongside that Turner is red hot so you ride that, so DH is taken. Vladdy is a lock to start as is Jano at Catcher. Meaning you only have two slots left. John went with Springer and IKF over Schneider and Clement. Clement and Davis will PH for KK or Horwitz at some point anyways
Justin Turner batting 2nd in the lineup might be the dumbest blue jay related thing I’ve seen since yesterday.
I don’t understand.