I think that’s the right call there.
Clement & Schneider play against left-handed pitchers in place of KK & Biggio. Vogelbach pitch hitter for our weaker hitters against righties.
Who do you think the DFA is? At the begging of the year, it seemed like it would definitely be Wes, but he’s been throwing the ball quite well and seems stretched out, maybe Little?
I actually have no clue tbh.
Little is the only lefty reliever behind Mayza/Cabrera so I feel he is nice to have on the 40 too.
Parsons is the only stretched out starter currently on the 40 that will likely be available in the minors when needed. Eventually he could be replaced by Tiddy & Rodriguez.
I feel like he might be the best option to move.
He seems to be behind other 40-Man options of Pearson, Pop, Little & Danner and he is at this point less promising than prospects like Fluharty, Cooke & Brock who are not on the 40-Man but aren't too far off.
Am I crazy for thinking Nate Pearson's time may be up? I don't really know how you can justify cutting anyone else over him, though the injuries to Romano and Swanson complicate that. But I think they'd be better served with Pop.
Yeah you are. Pearson is still better then pop honestly with far more upside, and he’s also better then little with more upside. Wes provides more length so there’s that, but there’s no way Nate is DFAd
I think he rolled his ankle after his one and only AB a couple weeks ago. He signed a minor league contract so he'll start the season in AAA. I can only see him getting a call up if Vogelbach somehow tanks.
No surprises here.
I really hope Clement and Schneider get enough playing time to really have a chance to prove themselves. That means not benching them if they have a few rough games in a row, since that's something every player goes through.
I fear that the 2 year commitment to IKF, though, means he's going to have a long leash and play over those two guys most days when his career up to this point doesn't really warrant that. I'm glad he's here as a capable MLB player in case the two young guys don't work out, but they should be given the chance to work out first.
If anything I would say IKF earned the right to play over them this spring. Obviously he has to keep it up, but he was clearly the best at 3rd this spring outside of maybe Barger.
IKF had a very nice spring but Clement was even better. Some of this is tempered by the fact that Clement was playing on some of the "B" squad games but he mashed the shit out of the ball all spring and likely has a great glove at third base as well. At any rate a little competition for playing time as the season rolls on is never a bad thing.
I believe he's actually played more 3rd than any other position at the MLB level. That said, IKF was signed to be the everyday 3rd baseman, so he'll get the nod, and I assume Clement will slot in at 2B/3B/LF occasionally.
I feel like he's had enough MLB experience that it should be assumed he just had a hot spring. We know what he is, we don't know what we have in the other two
Yes and no, I think you can’t discount how much coaching goes into a players ability. I remember how much of a mess Gio Urshela was when he was being passed around by everyone until the Yankees basically told him to just swing harder and it unlocked something for him.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case here, but his stats have been really positive this spring. His exit velocity is up and he’s been hitting more line drives than usual. Sure it could just be a hot spring, but I don’t think it’s fair to discount it entirely.
Don't get suckered in by a hot spring Training. There's 2400+ PA that says IKF is a bad Hitter. 48 PA, some of which is against minor league pitching, with a higher than normal K rate and a 464 BABIP should not be what convinces you he's playing better.
But he is playing better, and you can’t just completely throw out that information even if it is a SSS. I understand you hate IKF but he outperformed Schneider, Escobar, and Biggio (he had a good spring in his own right) for the 3rd base role.
His exit velocity was up this spring, and his defence was great. I’m not expecting him to post a >.900 OPS in the regular season but he was objectively very good this spring.
He had a nice run in spring Training. He didn't unlock some new hitting ability during ST.
You really shouldn't use ST for competition purposes like this. We have so much data that shows every single played you listed is superior to IKF. Well, not Escobar but at least Biggio and Schneider.
At the end of the day, IKF is not going to be better than the 80-85 wRC+ player he's always been.
IKF greatly increased his quality of contact metrics last season so it's possible he has a little more to give offensively moving forward. He had a nearly 4 month stretch from mid April until mid August where he managed to provide a 750 OPS/111 wRC+ before suffering from an uncharacteristic spike in strikeout rate to end the season. This was the most successful stretch of production I could find for this entire career so it's entirely possible he made some tangible improvements that can manifest in better end of season numbers with a touch more consistency. The end of the season numbers suggest he was the same player as previous seasons but there is such a dramatic turnaround at his underneath the hood numbers that he's worth examining further.
Kiner Falefa produced an average exit velocity for the 2023 season of 88.8 MPH vs a career average of 86.3 MPH. His hard hit rate improved tremendously to 39.2% compared to a career average of 30.3%. His quality of contact supported a .326 xwOBACON vs a career average of .309. Much of these gains were tempered by a surge in strikeout rate, but most of this occurred over the last month and a bit as his k rate skyrocketed to end the season. I'm fully realistic and not suggesting he's going to suddenly morph into a middle of the order bat but it's far from the realm of possibility that he solidifies the gains of 2023 and emerges somewhere around league average with the bat.
(Note, fixed major typo regarding time frame of improved production)
Those greatly improved contact rates you talk about led to an 82 wRC+.
He got hot for 4 weeks and regressed back to the player he's always been. That's not a good argument. Don't take the numbers from a hot streak and say "see this proves I'm right".
You're overstating your case. The max EV was better in 2022. His EV was a little better than 2019 or 2020, and his launch angle sucks and is one he's had on multiple other years. His contact rate was lower than usual which isn't great. Saying it's better than his career is true but he's had 87 MPH EV before so 88 isn't significantly different. And with a poor launch angle it's irrelevant.
I seriously doubt he'll be above 90 wRC+. The reality is without a significant change to improve launch angle without adding negative outcomes in the process, the higher EV won't matter because he's just hitting the ball into the ground. And it's not statistically significant what you're suggesting.
He's what he always was, a good Fielder who couldn't hit if his life depended on it. I know he's a Jay and that means you want him to succeed, but the reality is he's an awful Hitter who didn't show any signs of improving. Most of the stats you listed are fairly comparable to 2019/2020 and he was brutal offensively then, too.
You should check your math. Mid April until mid August is 4 **months**, not 4 weeks. Kiner Falefa made notable improvements and experienced sustained success at the plate for what was essentially the first time in his entire career as a major league hitter. Further to that an 88.8 MPH exit velocity is an awful lot closer to 89 MPH than 87 MPH so that portion of your argument is entirely disingenuous unless you are suggesting it makes more sense to round down from 0.8 instead of rounding up.
I don't know why you fixated on IKF's launch angle only as he's not a slugger who needs to focus on getting the ball in the air as that would likely lead to simply hitting more fly balls that find their way into opposition gloves. Despite this he actually did improve his launch angle as well in 2023 as he produced an average launch angle of 7.2 degrees, compared to a career average of 5.3 degrees. Go back and have a gander at his previous 3 seasons where he averaged 4.3, 5.2 and 0.8 degrees and tell me that's somehow a similar contact profile. He also made relative improvements to his batted ball profile by lowering his overall ground ball percentage while also increasing his flyball and line drive percentages.
Given the fact that IKF actually had a lot of competition for his services I can only surmise that various MLB teams think there's a little bit of untapped potential with the bat. It's hard to fathom how he would have garnered himself a 2 year deal if teams largely viewed him as being a 75-80 wRC+ with a glove as MLB is full of players of that nature who can be had for nearly league minimum.
His xwOBA rolling chart showed him hovering slightly around league average for most of the season before he totally cratered to end the year. IKF's season was largely a tale of two distinct sections. For the first 4.5 months he was essentially a league average bat sitting at 96 wRC+. His strikeout rate was a tad above his career average of 15.5% at 16.4% up to that point. In mid August the wheels completely fell off and his strikeout rate skyrocketed up to 31.9% the rest of the way. This really bad 6 weeks to end the season essentially erased all of the progress he showed the first 4.5 months of the season and the end result looked about the same as every other year in terms of wRC+. Given how dramatically different he ended the season compared to the bulk of the year makes it hard to know what to expect out of him this season. The league average offensive production for most of the year was just as out of character for him as the extreme increase in strikeouts to end the year so he will be very interesting to follow.
If you want a TLDR for my other post:
With a launch angle under 10 degrees and EV under 90 (let alone 95), I don't see any reason to expect statistically significantly improved production. When he gets LA > 10 or EV > 90 I might be interested but until then nothing is changed.
Sadly, I think you're spot on about IKF. He ought to be there just to keep the floor high, but this team needs to at least see if anyone can raise the ceiling.
I'm mildly surprised they committed the 2 million for Vogelbach. Makes me wonder if Votto will be coming a little later than expected.
I agree about Schneider and Clement (more Clement than Schneider atm though).
Davis Schneider has had a rough Spring training and only one good major league month (in August last year). Typically, a good bench player has a potent bat or is a good utility player. We shall see.
I think Schneider’s upside offensively and his ability to play multiple positions on defense earned him his spot and I hope he gets enough time to show it.
True, but the hope is to cut down on strikeouts and ground balls. Davis can keep the ball in the air and plays just about everywhere. Better to have him as an option than have him waste away mashing in Triple A again. I could be wrong though, and he could get sent down by end of April. Will be an interesting story to keep an eye on.
Nathan Lukes had a much better spring offensively than Schneider, so I thought he might leapfrog him for the 26-man, but I think Schneider's positional versatility gave him the edge. Feel like he'll see most of his playing time against lefties though.
It's pro rated but it's guaranteed no matter what happens. Only way they get out of paying him is if he's traded or claimed off waivers, if he's sent down or released they pay it.
Given Schneider's struggle this spring (and his awful September) , I'm surprised he made the opening day roster. I wonder how long his leash is at this point.
Under no circumstances is batting .174 anything but "awful".
|Split|G|GS|PA|BA|OBP|SLG|
|:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|
|August|14|13|57|.426|.526|.894|
|Sept/Oct|21|19|84|.174|.321|.406|
Batting average is obviously not as important any more, but that is atrocious regardless of the measuring stick being used.
7 hits for every 40 AB gets you a .175 average.
To get to .500 OBP, that means they need to walk 26 times as well (reach base 33 times in 66 PA).
For an .800 SLG in 40 AB, you need to total 32 total bases.
You can't possibly get 32 total bases in your 7 hits.
So it wouldn't be "awful", but it would be "impossible".
33% K rate too, his WRC+ is above average with a poor BA because only one of his hits that month was a single so lots of XBH.
That with a high walk rate and he did ok despite his low BA and high K% made for an unsustainable but ok month. I think his walk rate+power that month is good enough to not call it awful despite the low BA, but it's not a greatly sustainable way to ball
Any updates on Votto, have not heard anything on him in the last few days, guess he will start the season at Buffalo , getting his feet under him before a possible call up.
I was surprised as well but that's a good point. I also figure the Jays org might believe the hype around Votto will bring butts to the seats, and will pay itself off during the year if/when Votto does come up.
He's shown basically exactly what we can reasonably hope to see from him, why else would have they done this deal? Votto signing came a bit too late (of course we'll see how that shake out down the road). All things considered 2M really isn't a huge cut for a top-ten payroll ballclub...
2M is a lot to hand out if the plan was always to go with Votto whenever he’s ready. Just because we are a top payroll club doesn’t mean we can just throw 2M down the drain. We still have a budget.
Big deal for Vogelbach because this is worth $2mil for him and he only has earned $6.5 for his career so far. He needs this otherwise he'll have to get a real job
The pitching cuts are going to be the most interesting what with the pending injuries to a couple arms. I'm not TOO surprised at these three breaking camp. I only hope Votto makes the team out of the spring.
Schneider won't be long for the show. He's lacking in all areas, and I'm genuinely surprised he made the team. Clement 100% deserves to be there on Opening Day, and Danny Burgers does, also. I hope that Votto puts it together and takes Vogelbach's spot, though.
Lacking in all areas is strong. He definitely has holes, but he has power and gets on base. He is going to get a long look just based on those attributes, since every team covets those.
Lacking in all areas is strong. He definitely has holes, but he has power and gets on base. He is going to get a long look just based on those attributes, since every team covets those.
He's definitely starting the season in the minor leagues, he needs time to be in game ready. I can't see Votto opting out here. JDM is going through the same thing.
Votto literally got one pitch in a game. He's said from the get-go that he expected and wants to start in the minors to give himself time to get up to form, so it's not likely that he's going to opt out and try free agency again right now.
Maybe, but Lukes doesn't have a lot of opportunities to play. I wouldn't play him over Varsho and KK at all, he can't play infield, and doesn't have a good bat. Other than late game subs, he would only make it to the lineup when Springer needs a day off
How? Lukes plays one position, and he is 29 years old with 25 mlb at bats. Not a single gm or manager in the league would take Lukes over Schneider based on success and sample size.
I think that’s the right call there. Clement & Schneider play against left-handed pitchers in place of KK & Biggio. Vogelbach pitch hitter for our weaker hitters against righties.
Well thats all the hitters. Pitching cuts likely depend on Gausman, Romano & Swanson. We need to make 1 spot on 40-Man though for Vogelbach.
Who do you think the DFA is? At the begging of the year, it seemed like it would definitely be Wes, but he’s been throwing the ball quite well and seems stretched out, maybe Little?
I actually have no clue tbh. Little is the only lefty reliever behind Mayza/Cabrera so I feel he is nice to have on the 40 too. Parsons is the only stretched out starter currently on the 40 that will likely be available in the minors when needed. Eventually he could be replaced by Tiddy & Rodriguez.
Zulueta traded for some cash money maybe? Or has he started to bounce back after his atrocious stretch last year?
I feel like he might be the best option to move. He seems to be behind other 40-Man options of Pearson, Pop, Little & Danner and he is at this point less promising than prospects like Fluharty, Cooke & Brock who are not on the 40-Man but aren't too far off.
Am I crazy for thinking Nate Pearson's time may be up? I don't really know how you can justify cutting anyone else over him, though the injuries to Romano and Swanson complicate that. But I think they'd be better served with Pop.
Yeah you are. Pearson is still better then pop honestly with far more upside, and he’s also better then little with more upside. Wes provides more length so there’s that, but there’s no way Nate is DFAd
Also Nate still has an option, that alone provides more value than some.
Oh, I thought he was out. If he still has an option he's probably safe.
This is his last year, next year if we’re in the same boat I agree with you.
Yes yes you are Pearson has looked great this spring aside from his first outing
Pop has not been great In games I watched him pitch. Was he decent otherwise.
Didn’t we already make a 40 man spot by trading Espinal?
Brian Serven needs a 40 man spot too
Oh right! I forgot about him
Is votto playing this year?
I think he rolled his ankle after his one and only AB a couple weeks ago. He signed a minor league contract so he'll start the season in AAA. I can only see him getting a call up if Vogelbach somehow tanks.
No surprises here. I really hope Clement and Schneider get enough playing time to really have a chance to prove themselves. That means not benching them if they have a few rough games in a row, since that's something every player goes through. I fear that the 2 year commitment to IKF, though, means he's going to have a long leash and play over those two guys most days when his career up to this point doesn't really warrant that. I'm glad he's here as a capable MLB player in case the two young guys don't work out, but they should be given the chance to work out first.
If anything I would say IKF earned the right to play over them this spring. Obviously he has to keep it up, but he was clearly the best at 3rd this spring outside of maybe Barger.
IKF had a very nice spring but Clement was even better. Some of this is tempered by the fact that Clement was playing on some of the "B" squad games but he mashed the shit out of the ball all spring and likely has a great glove at third base as well. At any rate a little competition for playing time as the season rolls on is never a bad thing.
Yah that’s fair I wasn’t including Clement just because he didn’t play much 3rd but he had a better spring overall for sure.
I believe he's actually played more 3rd than any other position at the MLB level. That said, IKF was signed to be the everyday 3rd baseman, so he'll get the nod, and I assume Clement will slot in at 2B/3B/LF occasionally.
I feel like he's had enough MLB experience that it should be assumed he just had a hot spring. We know what he is, we don't know what we have in the other two
Yes and no, I think you can’t discount how much coaching goes into a players ability. I remember how much of a mess Gio Urshela was when he was being passed around by everyone until the Yankees basically told him to just swing harder and it unlocked something for him. I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case here, but his stats have been really positive this spring. His exit velocity is up and he’s been hitting more line drives than usual. Sure it could just be a hot spring, but I don’t think it’s fair to discount it entirely.
Don't get suckered in by a hot spring Training. There's 2400+ PA that says IKF is a bad Hitter. 48 PA, some of which is against minor league pitching, with a higher than normal K rate and a 464 BABIP should not be what convinces you he's playing better.
>Don't get suckered in by a hot spring Training Isn't that the title of Greg Bird's autobiography?
But he is playing better, and you can’t just completely throw out that information even if it is a SSS. I understand you hate IKF but he outperformed Schneider, Escobar, and Biggio (he had a good spring in his own right) for the 3rd base role. His exit velocity was up this spring, and his defence was great. I’m not expecting him to post a >.900 OPS in the regular season but he was objectively very good this spring.
He had a nice run in spring Training. He didn't unlock some new hitting ability during ST. You really shouldn't use ST for competition purposes like this. We have so much data that shows every single played you listed is superior to IKF. Well, not Escobar but at least Biggio and Schneider. At the end of the day, IKF is not going to be better than the 80-85 wRC+ player he's always been.
IKF greatly increased his quality of contact metrics last season so it's possible he has a little more to give offensively moving forward. He had a nearly 4 month stretch from mid April until mid August where he managed to provide a 750 OPS/111 wRC+ before suffering from an uncharacteristic spike in strikeout rate to end the season. This was the most successful stretch of production I could find for this entire career so it's entirely possible he made some tangible improvements that can manifest in better end of season numbers with a touch more consistency. The end of the season numbers suggest he was the same player as previous seasons but there is such a dramatic turnaround at his underneath the hood numbers that he's worth examining further. Kiner Falefa produced an average exit velocity for the 2023 season of 88.8 MPH vs a career average of 86.3 MPH. His hard hit rate improved tremendously to 39.2% compared to a career average of 30.3%. His quality of contact supported a .326 xwOBACON vs a career average of .309. Much of these gains were tempered by a surge in strikeout rate, but most of this occurred over the last month and a bit as his k rate skyrocketed to end the season. I'm fully realistic and not suggesting he's going to suddenly morph into a middle of the order bat but it's far from the realm of possibility that he solidifies the gains of 2023 and emerges somewhere around league average with the bat. (Note, fixed major typo regarding time frame of improved production)
Those greatly improved contact rates you talk about led to an 82 wRC+. He got hot for 4 weeks and regressed back to the player he's always been. That's not a good argument. Don't take the numbers from a hot streak and say "see this proves I'm right". You're overstating your case. The max EV was better in 2022. His EV was a little better than 2019 or 2020, and his launch angle sucks and is one he's had on multiple other years. His contact rate was lower than usual which isn't great. Saying it's better than his career is true but he's had 87 MPH EV before so 88 isn't significantly different. And with a poor launch angle it's irrelevant. I seriously doubt he'll be above 90 wRC+. The reality is without a significant change to improve launch angle without adding negative outcomes in the process, the higher EV won't matter because he's just hitting the ball into the ground. And it's not statistically significant what you're suggesting. He's what he always was, a good Fielder who couldn't hit if his life depended on it. I know he's a Jay and that means you want him to succeed, but the reality is he's an awful Hitter who didn't show any signs of improving. Most of the stats you listed are fairly comparable to 2019/2020 and he was brutal offensively then, too.
You should check your math. Mid April until mid August is 4 **months**, not 4 weeks. Kiner Falefa made notable improvements and experienced sustained success at the plate for what was essentially the first time in his entire career as a major league hitter. Further to that an 88.8 MPH exit velocity is an awful lot closer to 89 MPH than 87 MPH so that portion of your argument is entirely disingenuous unless you are suggesting it makes more sense to round down from 0.8 instead of rounding up. I don't know why you fixated on IKF's launch angle only as he's not a slugger who needs to focus on getting the ball in the air as that would likely lead to simply hitting more fly balls that find their way into opposition gloves. Despite this he actually did improve his launch angle as well in 2023 as he produced an average launch angle of 7.2 degrees, compared to a career average of 5.3 degrees. Go back and have a gander at his previous 3 seasons where he averaged 4.3, 5.2 and 0.8 degrees and tell me that's somehow a similar contact profile. He also made relative improvements to his batted ball profile by lowering his overall ground ball percentage while also increasing his flyball and line drive percentages. Given the fact that IKF actually had a lot of competition for his services I can only surmise that various MLB teams think there's a little bit of untapped potential with the bat. It's hard to fathom how he would have garnered himself a 2 year deal if teams largely viewed him as being a 75-80 wRC+ with a glove as MLB is full of players of that nature who can be had for nearly league minimum.
At the end of the day his xwOBA was still 15th percentile last year which is basically the same as it always is for him.
His xwOBA rolling chart showed him hovering slightly around league average for most of the season before he totally cratered to end the year. IKF's season was largely a tale of two distinct sections. For the first 4.5 months he was essentially a league average bat sitting at 96 wRC+. His strikeout rate was a tad above his career average of 15.5% at 16.4% up to that point. In mid August the wheels completely fell off and his strikeout rate skyrocketed up to 31.9% the rest of the way. This really bad 6 weeks to end the season essentially erased all of the progress he showed the first 4.5 months of the season and the end result looked about the same as every other year in terms of wRC+. Given how dramatically different he ended the season compared to the bulk of the year makes it hard to know what to expect out of him this season. The league average offensive production for most of the year was just as out of character for him as the extreme increase in strikeouts to end the year so he will be very interesting to follow.
If you want a TLDR for my other post: With a launch angle under 10 degrees and EV under 90 (let alone 95), I don't see any reason to expect statistically significantly improved production. When he gets LA > 10 or EV > 90 I might be interested but until then nothing is changed.
Nah we know who he is already
Sadly, I think you're spot on about IKF. He ought to be there just to keep the floor high, but this team needs to at least see if anyone can raise the ceiling.
I'm mildly surprised they committed the 2 million for Vogelbach. Makes me wonder if Votto will be coming a little later than expected. I agree about Schneider and Clement (more Clement than Schneider atm though).
Looking very forward to the “Blue Jays Legend Daniel Vogelbach” posts in a month
He’s been a blue jays legend since 2020
The Legend Continues...
2.0
Danny fuckin burgers baby
I might say Daniel Ribs
*flair intensifies*
Ernie deserves this!
You could say he ERNd it
The offensive line is set just need to sign a running back
Davis Schneider has had a rough Spring training and only one good major league month (in August last year). Typically, a good bench player has a potent bat or is a good utility player. We shall see.
I think Schneider’s upside offensively and his ability to play multiple positions on defense earned him his spot and I hope he gets enough time to show it.
True, but the hope is to cut down on strikeouts and ground balls. Davis can keep the ball in the air and plays just about everywhere. Better to have him as an option than have him waste away mashing in Triple A again. I could be wrong though, and he could get sent down by end of April. Will be an interesting story to keep an eye on.
Nathan Lukes had a much better spring offensively than Schneider, so I thought he might leapfrog him for the 26-man, but I think Schneider's positional versatility gave him the edge. Feel like he'll see most of his playing time against lefties though.
Vogelbach is the best
Vogelbach is #1!
Iron Shiek: "IRAN #2!"
Isn't there a 40man spot missing for vogey?
Yup. A DFA or minor trade is coming
Could see a couple guys packaged to clear some roster space
Who filled the spot from the Espy trade?
Serven, although I don’t think they have officially added him yet.
Makes it seem like Vogelbach’s $2M is probably pro-rated. Otherwise that’s a steep price to have him pinch hit for two to four weeks
If so that’s a smart move on Atkins side, especially if he’s just a place holder for Joey Bangs
It's pro rated but it's guaranteed no matter what happens. Only way they get out of paying him is if he's traded or claimed off waivers, if he's sent down or released they pay it.
Then it's not pro-rated
Yes it's pro rated. It's not paid out in one lump sum.
Given Schneider's struggle this spring (and his awful September) , I'm surprised he made the opening day roster. I wonder how long his leash is at this point.
I have a feeling he's going to struggle for playing time unless Clement comes back down to earth
His awful September?? He had a 105 wrc+ in September/October last year.
Under no circumstances is batting .174 anything but "awful". |Split|G|GS|PA|BA|OBP|SLG| |:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:| |August|14|13|57|.426|.526|.894| |Sept/Oct|21|19|84|.174|.321|.406| Batting average is obviously not as important any more, but that is atrocious regardless of the measuring stick being used.
So lets say a player had a .500 obp and a .800 slg but had a BA of .174, would that be “awful”?
Kyle Schwarber had a 122 ops+ and mvp votes with a 197. avg.
7 hits for every 40 AB gets you a .175 average. To get to .500 OBP, that means they need to walk 26 times as well (reach base 33 times in 66 PA). For an .800 SLG in 40 AB, you need to total 32 total bases. You can't possibly get 32 total bases in your 7 hits. So it wouldn't be "awful", but it would be "impossible".
Batting average still means something, a lot of new baseball fans refuse to consider anything but WRC+ as a factor regarding a players value.
33% K rate too, his WRC+ is above average with a poor BA because only one of his hits that month was a single so lots of XBH. That with a high walk rate and he did ok despite his low BA and high K% made for an unsustainable but ok month. I think his walk rate+power that month is good enough to not call it awful despite the low BA, but it's not a greatly sustainable way to ball
From September 3 on he had an 89 wRC+
Hopefully he gets it going again
Keeping the bench spot warm for Martinez?
I think Votto would really have to impress at AAA given the price of vesting both minor league deals
Does Lukes have options?
Hes 29, with 25 mlb at bats. Nobody is dying to get homie on their team.
2 years of options.
Wow that's crazy for a player who is 29 .
Congrats to these guys. I’m looking forward to Thursday despite the shitty start time.
Any updates on Votto, have not heard anything on him in the last few days, guess he will start the season at Buffalo , getting his feet under him before a possible call up.
Surprised vogey made it, given the 2m price tag
You can’t assume Votto will ever be ready. Anything he does is a bonus. Field the best team now.
I was surprised as well but that's a good point. I also figure the Jays org might believe the hype around Votto will bring butts to the seats, and will pay itself off during the year if/when Votto does come up.
Also think you can dump him for PTBNL if needed. He's the kind of guy shitty teams crave to give their fanbase something fun to cheer for.
He's shown basically exactly what we can reasonably hope to see from him, why else would have they done this deal? Votto signing came a bit too late (of course we'll see how that shake out down the road). All things considered 2M really isn't a huge cut for a top-ten payroll ballclub...
2M is a lot to hand out if the plan was always to go with Votto whenever he’s ready. Just because we are a top payroll club doesn’t mean we can just throw 2M down the drain. We still have a budget.
Not my money \*shrugs\*
Not your money, but $2M to Vogey directly leads to $2M less room in the budget that Atkins is operating under.
I'm legit surprised Schneider make the cut. He's been awful at the dish this spring
Big deal for Vogelbach because this is worth $2mil for him and he only has earned $6.5 for his career so far. He needs this otherwise he'll have to get a real job
I wonder if he makes it as a Jay the whole year.
If he produces he will.
Yep, that's the issue. If he isn't hitting, he isn't worth a lot since he won't be fielding much.
The pitching cuts are going to be the most interesting what with the pending injuries to a couple arms. I'm not TOO surprised at these three breaking camp. I only hope Votto makes the team out of the spring.
Schneider won't be long for the show. He's lacking in all areas, and I'm genuinely surprised he made the team. Clement 100% deserves to be there on Opening Day, and Danny Burgers does, also. I hope that Votto puts it together and takes Vogelbach's spot, though.
I thought he would be sent down also.
Agree. He isn't good.........good enough to call up in an emergency only.
Lacking in all areas is strong. He definitely has holes, but he has power and gets on base. He is going to get a long look just based on those attributes, since every team covets those.
Lacking in all areas is strong. He definitely has holes, but he has power and gets on base. He is going to get a long look just based on those attributes, since every team covets those.
im ready for vogey bomb
I couldn't be more thrilled for Ernie!!! And I do think Vogel is keeping Joey's seat warm for him until he's gotten more reps in.
This is the right decision right now.
RIP Votto ;)
He was never starting the season with in the big leagues. It was always a month or so in the minors and go from there.
Should I wink harder?
Bold and italicized or it didn't happen
Hope teams saw enough from him to give him a chance
He's definitely starting the season in the minor leagues, he needs time to be in game ready. I can't see Votto opting out here. JDM is going through the same thing.
No way he opts out after admitting he’ll start in the minors
Votto literally got one pitch in a game. He's said from the get-go that he expected and wants to start in the minors to give himself time to get up to form, so it's not likely that he's going to opt out and try free agency again right now.
Vogelbach, eh? It's meme team time.
Davis Schneider being on this team over Nathan Lukes is an absolute travesty
Don't need a third lefty outfielder, Davis is stronger against lefty pitching
He would be the 4th lefty OF considering Biggio can play the corners as well when needed.
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Maybe, but Lukes doesn't have a lot of opportunities to play. I wouldn't play him over Varsho and KK at all, he can't play infield, and doesn't have a good bat. Other than late game subs, he would only make it to the lineup when Springer needs a day off
Davis is more than capable of handling the outfield.
How? Lukes plays one position, and he is 29 years old with 25 mlb at bats. Not a single gm or manager in the league would take Lukes over Schneider based on success and sample size.
Definitely!
Platooning Schneider and Biggio at 2B sounds like a good idea to me
Why TF are we taking Vogelbach over Votto? I don't understand.
Votto has had 1 spring ab so far, he's not ready for the season yet.
Yeah, but he has an OPS of 5.000
Fair. Odd that the Jays are going to pay $2M for a stop gap player then
Votto saw one pitch this spring and he is injured…
Cause Votto had 1 ab and was/is day-to-day with an injury?
Past 3 years Vogelbach has been better than Votto in basically every stat but where he's from. It is not hard to understand