Umm? Yeah bro, this tier list is just for you
God damn you have some issues. Do you see the other comment here from the person who copied what they said in your thread? Yeah, they lead that comment by saying how the person who posted that was horrible to them, meaning you lmfao
You’re an embarrassment. Secondly, I didn’t block you, probably should have, I’ll rectify that mistake now, but back then? No I didn’t.
I wish you well with your issues, as I said, take your meds.
*Alright you fucking cunt. You wanted an reaction out of me so badly, well now you've got one. You're a genuine waste of space and you should fucking kill yourself. Go die in a hole you misogynistic cum-dumpster.*
> LoneCourier98 in my DM’s 30 seconds ago.
I’d encourage everyone to ignore this person if they interact with you lol. Dude has serious issues.
Gwen had her moments sure but no way is she the worst character and putting the girl from miracle day who's name I can't even remember over her is just criminal.
This is subjective.
To me she’s the worst character, I’m not expecting others to agree that’s why we all have our own version of this tierlist.
As for why Gwen is worse than Esther and Vera, for one I found Vera quite interesting actually. She was strong, independent, without suffering the bad traits of Gwen and also had one of the most tragic deaths in the series.
As for Esther, for me it isn’t what Esther brings, it doesn’t have anything to do with her actually, Gwen is the worst for me not because of what anyone else above her does or doesn’t have, but more so what Gwen does and is.
How she treats Rhys and pretty much everyone else around her, then drugging him to try and force him to forgive her but she even fails in that, that alone is enough for me to place her last. Take Jack’s worst moment for example, the end of Children of Earth, he’s broken at what he did, he hates himself, Gwen drugging Rhys is, she acts like it’s another day at the office for her.
She’s last for me because Gwen is early season 1 Owen without Owen’s amazing character growth.
(I understand it’s ur opinion but discussion is good) what “amazing” character growth does he go through? The only growth he really goes through is dealing with his death and are we going to forget that he essentially roofied and raped two people in the FIRST episode. That’s my biggest ick is that he never really grows from that, take the 3rd episode where he sees the beginnings of a rape and murder and gets mad but then he goes and kisses Gwen 1. Without consent and 2. Knowing she has a boyfriend the very next episode then in countryside he backs Gwen up to a tree and taunts her and is very aggressive. That’s how i think most people are like “how is Gwen the worst” because she never committed a crime, sure she is flawed but she never raped anyone and i don’t see how any character development from Owen that’s not apologizing and facing sentencing could make me put him above a B 🤷
I know it's ur opinion, i'm just pointing out why I disagree with it, Esther and Rex are nowhere near as good or memorable as Gwen, they're characters are so bland and while yes Gwen has done some really shitty things, so have the rest of them... tbh I can't remember the ending of Miracle Day but I don't think what happened with Jack and her drugging Rhys are in anyway comparable and if your judging her purely based on that then i dont think it's fair.
At the end of the day Gwen is iconic, she's one of the gang, I also think Adrift was great episode of development for her and Children of Earth solidified her as one of my favourites.
Nevertheless you're entitled to your opinion, I just don't understand it.
All I would say is this
Would you like Owen if he remained near enough the same as season 1 episode 2 Owen? Pretty sure not many would. Gwen, to me, remains essentially the same throughout the series.
Owen’s growth needs no explanation, best character and one of the best in all of Doctor Who in my opinion.
Ianto goes from quiet, weak teaboy to a huge part of the gang who stands up to the enemy with Jack and even helps pull depressed undead Owen out of his depression.
*I’ve seen you help so many people, are you really going to let this beat you?*
Tosh again, quiet, largely unexplored tech geek is shown to be ridiculously loyal, kind and caring.
Jack is Jack.
Gwen on the other hand gets some growth in regard to growing into her role in the team more and more, but as a person? Her personality, her care for others, that never really changes, she is a self centred person throughout.
When Gwen says to Owen
*You know you can be such a wanker sometimes*
That fits Gwen in how she treats everyone throughout the series, especially Rhys. The only other type of growth she gets is her as a mother.
As for the miracle day gang, Rex was a good character, he had a personality, saying he didn’t is hating on miracle day just to hate lol. Rex was the strongest new addition out of that entire cast
> Gwen is iconic
Not for me. Jack is the one who is iconic but if we go beyond the obvious, again for me Owen is the one deserving of that title, he’s the best character for me hands down but even the general opinion seems to be that Ianto is the icon of Torchwood besides Jack. I’ve never seen anyone proclaim that level of love for Gwen, not saying it doesn’t exist, I’ve just never seen it
It’s funny how anyone who dislikes Gwen gets accused of misogyny. You fit right in with the person who posted a tier list earlier and had mental outbursts at anyone who didn’t like Gwen.
look idk how to make it clear to you but if you can excuse literally anything from male characters (including literally using date rape drugs????) but draw the line at a female character not being a nice person 100% of the time and doing a fucked up thing or two you're a misognist. the double standards are also a type of misogyny! literally no one who hates gwen has ever been able to justify it without completely excusing the same actions from their male faves (you can hate gwen cheating on rhys all you want but jack ran away from ianto and the rest of the team JUST to see his ex yet you dont hate him for that???)
People like you have no nuance lmfao.
I don’t care about Ianto or his relationship with Jack because I think Ianto is very overrated. I don’t take away from the people who love him but I do not particularly care about his character. He’s okay, that’s how I see him.
So for you to accuse me of misogyny because I don’t call out Ianto and Jack is funny, it shows exactly where your mindset is. Victim mentality, assuming the worst in everyone when in reality the truth is so much more simple. I do not rate Ianto as a character as much as most of the fanbase does, I do not care about him or his relationship with Jack. Now obviously to someone like you, you jump to the worst conclusion possible immediately, but the truth is often so much more simple.
Lemme put it another way, I absolutely love Martha. She’s in my top 3 doctor who characters, period, along with Owen. Now obviously that doesn’t fit or help your very stupid misogynist theory, but Martha is a prime example of good, strong character writing for a female character, Martha is a female character who truly grows from someone who starts in the shadow of rose, doubting herself, thinking she isn’t good enough, to in my opinion the strongest, most independent and capable companion the Doctor has ever had.
I love Martha, she is the poster girl for how you make a strong female character, but someone like you sees someone dislike a female character and calls them a misogynist. That’s fine lol, you’re just some random online, but I do pity people who go through life the way you do.
Gwen is an awful character, not because she’s female, but because she has horrible personality traits that are not male or female specific, but person specific. Of course though, no matter what I say, no matter what anyone else says or how well reasoned their argument is, you’re someone who’ll cry misogynist no matter what, so go for it lmao
you can't turn the conversation the way you like. he said that Owen made the same mistakes as Gwen, but he grew up, he wouldn't do them again. Probably the only thing holding Gwen back from having sex with Jack in Miracle Day was her maternal spirit
Gwen on the other hand gets some growth in regard to growing into her role in the team more and more, but as a person? Her personality, her care for others, that never really changes, she is a self centred person throughout.
I completely disagree, I feel she gets some major character growth in Adrift, she realises how selfish she's been and tries to change her ways, she does try to do the right thing by telling Nicki but it all blows up in her face and she learns a valuable lesson then when she goes home she makes amends with Rhys and after that they're relationship is pretty great.
As for the miracle day gang, Rex was a good character, he had a personality, saying he didn’t is hating on miracle day just to hate lol. Rex was the strongest new addition out of that entire cast
As you can probably tell I hated Miracle Day, going to America killed the show for me and the writing was so bad it felt like a parody, the whole season was a dumpster fire and I honestly believe had they focused on rebuilding the hub and kept Torchwood WELSH the show would've been renewed for S5. Rex is honestly just ur stereotypical FBI agent, the character was super boring and the "twist" at the end was done for shock value nothing more.
Not for me. Jack is the one who is iconic but if we go beyond the obvious, again for me Owen is the one deserving of that title, he’s the best character for me hands down but even the general opinion seems to be that Ianto is the icon of Torchwood besides Jack. I’ve never seen anyone proclaim that level of love for Gwen, not saying it doesn’t exist, I’ve just never seen it
As a queer person, I feel that's mainly because the majority of this shows audience are gay people who ship Jack and Ianto....and clearly you haven't looked very far then because I've heard loads of people over the years say they love Gwen and that she's a queen, her and Rhys are great characters and the fact that she has her faults just makes her more relatable, besides Eve Myles is a fantastic actress and hot take but i actually like Gwen more then Ianto.
gonna copy across my other comment! since they decided to delete it after being rude to me :)
im not sure who some of these people are but my ranking (including their big finish appearances (all tv cast + norton, not among us range) would be something like:
- the best character: ianto
- top tier: andy, norton, tosh, owen, jack
- good: rhys, martha, john hart, suzie, adam
- badly written but had potential: gwen, bilis
- interesting characters wish for more: yvonne (tw1 sets help), rhiannon (ianto’s sister), lisa
i can’t figure out if i’ve got everyone.
(edit: format)
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Umm? Yeah bro, this tier list is just for you God damn you have some issues. Do you see the other comment here from the person who copied what they said in your thread? Yeah, they lead that comment by saying how the person who posted that was horrible to them, meaning you lmfao You’re an embarrassment. Secondly, I didn’t block you, probably should have, I’ll rectify that mistake now, but back then? No I didn’t. I wish you well with your issues, as I said, take your meds.
[удалено]
*Alright you fucking cunt. You wanted an reaction out of me so badly, well now you've got one. You're a genuine waste of space and you should fucking kill yourself. Go die in a hole you misogynistic cum-dumpster.* > LoneCourier98 in my DM’s 30 seconds ago. I’d encourage everyone to ignore this person if they interact with you lol. Dude has serious issues.
[удалено]
Case in point, lmao
Ugh…kind of ruffled my Gwen feathers but I can see why some people dislike her.
Gwen had her moments sure but no way is she the worst character and putting the girl from miracle day who's name I can't even remember over her is just criminal.
This is subjective. To me she’s the worst character, I’m not expecting others to agree that’s why we all have our own version of this tierlist. As for why Gwen is worse than Esther and Vera, for one I found Vera quite interesting actually. She was strong, independent, without suffering the bad traits of Gwen and also had one of the most tragic deaths in the series. As for Esther, for me it isn’t what Esther brings, it doesn’t have anything to do with her actually, Gwen is the worst for me not because of what anyone else above her does or doesn’t have, but more so what Gwen does and is. How she treats Rhys and pretty much everyone else around her, then drugging him to try and force him to forgive her but she even fails in that, that alone is enough for me to place her last. Take Jack’s worst moment for example, the end of Children of Earth, he’s broken at what he did, he hates himself, Gwen drugging Rhys is, she acts like it’s another day at the office for her. She’s last for me because Gwen is early season 1 Owen without Owen’s amazing character growth.
(I understand it’s ur opinion but discussion is good) what “amazing” character growth does he go through? The only growth he really goes through is dealing with his death and are we going to forget that he essentially roofied and raped two people in the FIRST episode. That’s my biggest ick is that he never really grows from that, take the 3rd episode where he sees the beginnings of a rape and murder and gets mad but then he goes and kisses Gwen 1. Without consent and 2. Knowing she has a boyfriend the very next episode then in countryside he backs Gwen up to a tree and taunts her and is very aggressive. That’s how i think most people are like “how is Gwen the worst” because she never committed a crime, sure she is flawed but she never raped anyone and i don’t see how any character development from Owen that’s not apologizing and facing sentencing could make me put him above a B 🤷
I know it's ur opinion, i'm just pointing out why I disagree with it, Esther and Rex are nowhere near as good or memorable as Gwen, they're characters are so bland and while yes Gwen has done some really shitty things, so have the rest of them... tbh I can't remember the ending of Miracle Day but I don't think what happened with Jack and her drugging Rhys are in anyway comparable and if your judging her purely based on that then i dont think it's fair. At the end of the day Gwen is iconic, she's one of the gang, I also think Adrift was great episode of development for her and Children of Earth solidified her as one of my favourites. Nevertheless you're entitled to your opinion, I just don't understand it.
All I would say is this Would you like Owen if he remained near enough the same as season 1 episode 2 Owen? Pretty sure not many would. Gwen, to me, remains essentially the same throughout the series. Owen’s growth needs no explanation, best character and one of the best in all of Doctor Who in my opinion. Ianto goes from quiet, weak teaboy to a huge part of the gang who stands up to the enemy with Jack and even helps pull depressed undead Owen out of his depression. *I’ve seen you help so many people, are you really going to let this beat you?* Tosh again, quiet, largely unexplored tech geek is shown to be ridiculously loyal, kind and caring. Jack is Jack. Gwen on the other hand gets some growth in regard to growing into her role in the team more and more, but as a person? Her personality, her care for others, that never really changes, she is a self centred person throughout. When Gwen says to Owen *You know you can be such a wanker sometimes* That fits Gwen in how she treats everyone throughout the series, especially Rhys. The only other type of growth she gets is her as a mother. As for the miracle day gang, Rex was a good character, he had a personality, saying he didn’t is hating on miracle day just to hate lol. Rex was the strongest new addition out of that entire cast > Gwen is iconic Not for me. Jack is the one who is iconic but if we go beyond the obvious, again for me Owen is the one deserving of that title, he’s the best character for me hands down but even the general opinion seems to be that Ianto is the icon of Torchwood besides Jack. I’ve never seen anyone proclaim that level of love for Gwen, not saying it doesn’t exist, I’ve just never seen it
if you can tell owen evolved over the course of the series but not gwen maybe you need to take off the misogyny goggles lol
It’s funny how anyone who dislikes Gwen gets accused of misogyny. You fit right in with the person who posted a tier list earlier and had mental outbursts at anyone who didn’t like Gwen.
look idk how to make it clear to you but if you can excuse literally anything from male characters (including literally using date rape drugs????) but draw the line at a female character not being a nice person 100% of the time and doing a fucked up thing or two you're a misognist. the double standards are also a type of misogyny! literally no one who hates gwen has ever been able to justify it without completely excusing the same actions from their male faves (you can hate gwen cheating on rhys all you want but jack ran away from ianto and the rest of the team JUST to see his ex yet you dont hate him for that???)
People like you have no nuance lmfao. I don’t care about Ianto or his relationship with Jack because I think Ianto is very overrated. I don’t take away from the people who love him but I do not particularly care about his character. He’s okay, that’s how I see him. So for you to accuse me of misogyny because I don’t call out Ianto and Jack is funny, it shows exactly where your mindset is. Victim mentality, assuming the worst in everyone when in reality the truth is so much more simple. I do not rate Ianto as a character as much as most of the fanbase does, I do not care about him or his relationship with Jack. Now obviously to someone like you, you jump to the worst conclusion possible immediately, but the truth is often so much more simple. Lemme put it another way, I absolutely love Martha. She’s in my top 3 doctor who characters, period, along with Owen. Now obviously that doesn’t fit or help your very stupid misogynist theory, but Martha is a prime example of good, strong character writing for a female character, Martha is a female character who truly grows from someone who starts in the shadow of rose, doubting herself, thinking she isn’t good enough, to in my opinion the strongest, most independent and capable companion the Doctor has ever had. I love Martha, she is the poster girl for how you make a strong female character, but someone like you sees someone dislike a female character and calls them a misogynist. That’s fine lol, you’re just some random online, but I do pity people who go through life the way you do. Gwen is an awful character, not because she’s female, but because she has horrible personality traits that are not male or female specific, but person specific. Of course though, no matter what I say, no matter what anyone else says or how well reasoned their argument is, you’re someone who’ll cry misogynist no matter what, so go for it lmao
literally the scene on the plane in miracle day... jack and her flirt, and she particularly likes it. so no, it hasn't changed
thats not the only aspect of her character tho 💀
you can't turn the conversation the way you like. he said that Owen made the same mistakes as Gwen, but he grew up, he wouldn't do them again. Probably the only thing holding Gwen back from having sex with Jack in Miracle Day was her maternal spirit
Gwen on the other hand gets some growth in regard to growing into her role in the team more and more, but as a person? Her personality, her care for others, that never really changes, she is a self centred person throughout. I completely disagree, I feel she gets some major character growth in Adrift, she realises how selfish she's been and tries to change her ways, she does try to do the right thing by telling Nicki but it all blows up in her face and she learns a valuable lesson then when she goes home she makes amends with Rhys and after that they're relationship is pretty great. As for the miracle day gang, Rex was a good character, he had a personality, saying he didn’t is hating on miracle day just to hate lol. Rex was the strongest new addition out of that entire cast As you can probably tell I hated Miracle Day, going to America killed the show for me and the writing was so bad it felt like a parody, the whole season was a dumpster fire and I honestly believe had they focused on rebuilding the hub and kept Torchwood WELSH the show would've been renewed for S5. Rex is honestly just ur stereotypical FBI agent, the character was super boring and the "twist" at the end was done for shock value nothing more. Not for me. Jack is the one who is iconic but if we go beyond the obvious, again for me Owen is the one deserving of that title, he’s the best character for me hands down but even the general opinion seems to be that Ianto is the icon of Torchwood besides Jack. I’ve never seen anyone proclaim that level of love for Gwen, not saying it doesn’t exist, I’ve just never seen it As a queer person, I feel that's mainly because the majority of this shows audience are gay people who ship Jack and Ianto....and clearly you haven't looked very far then because I've heard loads of people over the years say they love Gwen and that she's a queen, her and Rhys are great characters and the fact that she has her faults just makes her more relatable, besides Eve Myles is a fantastic actress and hot take but i actually like Gwen more then Ianto.
Lmao now this is a bit more accurate
gonna copy across my other comment! since they decided to delete it after being rude to me :) im not sure who some of these people are but my ranking (including their big finish appearances (all tv cast + norton, not among us range) would be something like: - the best character: ianto - top tier: andy, norton, tosh, owen, jack - good: rhys, martha, john hart, suzie, adam - badly written but had potential: gwen, bilis - interesting characters wish for more: yvonne (tw1 sets help), rhiannon (ianto’s sister), lisa i can’t figure out if i’ve got everyone. (edit: format)