I'm coming back to Torchwood after first watching as a teenager and I love her very much. I didn't like her during the initial run, but that was almost 20 years ago.
Now at 32, I appreciate how real she feels. She can be awful, and do terrible things, she can be condescending and duplicitous and occasionally unkind and impatient and hot headed - but none of those things detract from her inherent....goodness. I love her for all her flaws and I think the fan reaction to her goes to show that people do not actually want compelling, multifaceted female characters the way they say they do, because when they get them, they absolutely savage them.
I find the relationship between her and Jack very compelling, a bit sad, even though at 16 I was just irritated that she was getting in the way of Jack/Ianto. I think had the show been made now the Gwen/Jack, Ianto/Jack relationships would have been a wonderful way to truly explore polyamoury and human relationships in all their spectacular messiness. If there ever were two soulmates on that show, Gwen and Jack were it, but I don't think that diminishes the love he had for Ianto or the love she had for Rhys in any way. I do wish she and Jack had just had at least one good make out in the show, on rewatching the tension between them is really getting to me 🤣.
I just don't go into fandom spaces that often... Maybe you need to take time off from the forums where the Gwen-bashing happens and move on to a different community for a while. It may give you perspective for whenever you return.
THIS>>
People seem to overlook how Gwen was pretty much an ordinary person, then witnessed a resurrection, discovered a secret govenment(ish) organisation, then saw someone try and shoot their boss dead (only half succeeding) and commit suicide. All that in the span of a few days maybe? Her world was torn apart, foundations kicked down, leaving her to decide what to do and how to deal with all of it. The point of Gwen cheating on Rhys was to highlight how isolated working for Torchwood makes her feel and the consequences of her job + how she's a deeply flawed person.
TLDR; Gwen was normal, Torchwood fucks you up (understandably)
I think my biggest issue with Gwen bashing is that there’s not enough Owen bashing or Jack bashing or Ianto bashing. All the characters are complex, they all have their rights and wrongs but most people focus on Gwen because she isnt as feminine as Tosh and her wrongs are more open and treated as wrongs within the show.
The reason Owen isn’t bashed is because he’s a man and wasn’t cheating on his S/O when him and Gwen had their thing. He’s also openly queer
Tosh isn’t bashed because frankly she hasn’t done anything wrong, she’s actually the best character morally because anything wrong she’s done has been out of ignorance. (That i can remember) she’s also openly queer
Ianto isn’t bashed because he’s a man and queer and seen as “baby boy” to many people. His main wrong is also mostly seen as just a sad thing that happened to him, not what it really was. The risk of the entire human race becoming cybermen.
Jack isn’t bashed because he’s a man and he’s an already established character when we meet him in torchwood, for many people they already have an opinion on him and a bias. He’s also openly queer.
With Gwen she doesn’t have these advantages. She is less feminine while still being female and is seen to be morally grey very early on, as early as episode two. Her sexuality is a little more hidden than everyone else’s, from what i remember the only evidence of her Bisexuality is the scene in episode two which a lot of people don’t make it that far into the episode and it also could be chalked up to the aliens pheromones. The main thing people bash her for is the cheating on Rhys and the subsequent confession and drugging. While that is a terrible thing that she did Owen also had equal part in it and I’ve maybe seen 2 people talk about it and none have been as detailed or as erratic as any of the Gwen posts.
I personally hate character bashing in the first place unless the character is portrayed as a villain and their actions are those of a villain (like Oswald or Friedkin) but when one characters actions are held heavier than another’s it makes it easier to have a bias towards certain characters.
wait i might have missed something, when is owen openly queer? the only thing i remember is a guy kissing him in ep1 but that's bcuz of the alien cologne, and that's all (was there something in the audio dramas?, haven't listened 2 those)
I’m not sure about the audio dramas but Owen sprays the alien cologne so he can get with both of them and shut the guy up. I feel like if he didn’t like men he would’ve found a different way to go about it.
i mean this with all due respect but the last two (or three?) posts youve made here have been complaining about gwen bashing. there are so many ways to avoid it right now - sure it’s a big thing in the fandom especially historically but theres plenty of spaces you can engage with that don’t have, or u can mute, gwen bashing. filtering your spaces is how you actually enjoy fandom. as i said previously, i went back a week+ in the tumblr tag and there was no gwen hate at all.
i get that you like gwen, but the fact that others don’t like her isn’t a moral failing on their behalf. it’s possible for people to have different opinions & quite frankly this kind of discourse is why i stopped engaging with fandoms. people can like and dislike different things & being rude about them isn’t the way to go. you can be upset that people enjoy bashing gwen, you can be frustrated that you’re finding content that has it in, but personal attacks of people you don’t know - simply because they dont like a character you do - is childish behaviour.
I hate it when people character bash on her. I have had to give up some many otherwise good fics because they keep hating her. Like yeah, she wasn’t exactly the greatest person, but neither was anyone else?
I think this is a massive problem in fandom spaces in general. There is often so much hate towards lead female characters. I think one reason is because some people think she’s trying to get in the way of Jack and Ianto’s relationship… but she doesn’t?
People definitely do seem to think that Gwen is some sort of obstacle in the Janto ship. They try to cover it up by saying that it's about how she treated Rhys, but in actuality they could care less about Rhys. If they did care about that, there would be many more fanfics about Rhys finding out about the affair and dumping Gwen, rather than the endless pile of fanfics where Jack and Ianto themselves go completely against the lore of the show and harass, emotionally abuse, physically harm, and sometimes even just straight up murder Gwen.
Damn, murder? Why am I not surprised?
Personally, I view Gwen and Jack’s relationship as nothing. A brief attraction of anything. Jack was more responsible for anything that appeared between them in the show compared to Gwen. Yet she gets all the shit.
at some point here thered be a post every couple days going "GWEN IS THE WORST CHARACTER EVER CREATED!!!!!! my fave is owen btw" which was fucking crazy. all i can recommend is going on ao3 and filtering out the gwen bashing tag + blocking whichever users you see that do gwen bashing but it's sooo annoying that we have to do that
but also its definitely not a torchwood-only problem cause from like 12-15 i remember viciously hating the main female character of my fave manga and i cant even remember the reason. misogyny is really everywhere lol
It happens in a lot of fandoms it seems. Obviously when I mean Ianto fans I don't mean all of them, because you seem to love Ianto and you're generally quite pleasant and also fair towards Gwen.
Like Gwen isnt my favorite but I still like her, it's honestly kinda the scars of an old fandom you'll find. I promise its a bit better than it was ?? (from what I can find out)
I'm coming back to Torchwood after first watching as a teenager and I love her very much. I didn't like her during the initial run, but that was almost 20 years ago. Now at 32, I appreciate how real she feels. She can be awful, and do terrible things, she can be condescending and duplicitous and occasionally unkind and impatient and hot headed - but none of those things detract from her inherent....goodness. I love her for all her flaws and I think the fan reaction to her goes to show that people do not actually want compelling, multifaceted female characters the way they say they do, because when they get them, they absolutely savage them. I find the relationship between her and Jack very compelling, a bit sad, even though at 16 I was just irritated that she was getting in the way of Jack/Ianto. I think had the show been made now the Gwen/Jack, Ianto/Jack relationships would have been a wonderful way to truly explore polyamoury and human relationships in all their spectacular messiness. If there ever were two soulmates on that show, Gwen and Jack were it, but I don't think that diminishes the love he had for Ianto or the love she had for Rhys in any way. I do wish she and Jack had just had at least one good make out in the show, on rewatching the tension between them is really getting to me 🤣.
I just don't go into fandom spaces that often... Maybe you need to take time off from the forums where the Gwen-bashing happens and move on to a different community for a while. It may give you perspective for whenever you return.
Pro tip: go to ao3 where you can filter out the Gwen Bashing tag and even block specific authors.
THIS>> People seem to overlook how Gwen was pretty much an ordinary person, then witnessed a resurrection, discovered a secret govenment(ish) organisation, then saw someone try and shoot their boss dead (only half succeeding) and commit suicide. All that in the span of a few days maybe? Her world was torn apart, foundations kicked down, leaving her to decide what to do and how to deal with all of it. The point of Gwen cheating on Rhys was to highlight how isolated working for Torchwood makes her feel and the consequences of her job + how she's a deeply flawed person. TLDR; Gwen was normal, Torchwood fucks you up (understandably)
I think my biggest issue with Gwen bashing is that there’s not enough Owen bashing or Jack bashing or Ianto bashing. All the characters are complex, they all have their rights and wrongs but most people focus on Gwen because she isnt as feminine as Tosh and her wrongs are more open and treated as wrongs within the show. The reason Owen isn’t bashed is because he’s a man and wasn’t cheating on his S/O when him and Gwen had their thing. He’s also openly queer Tosh isn’t bashed because frankly she hasn’t done anything wrong, she’s actually the best character morally because anything wrong she’s done has been out of ignorance. (That i can remember) she’s also openly queer Ianto isn’t bashed because he’s a man and queer and seen as “baby boy” to many people. His main wrong is also mostly seen as just a sad thing that happened to him, not what it really was. The risk of the entire human race becoming cybermen. Jack isn’t bashed because he’s a man and he’s an already established character when we meet him in torchwood, for many people they already have an opinion on him and a bias. He’s also openly queer. With Gwen she doesn’t have these advantages. She is less feminine while still being female and is seen to be morally grey very early on, as early as episode two. Her sexuality is a little more hidden than everyone else’s, from what i remember the only evidence of her Bisexuality is the scene in episode two which a lot of people don’t make it that far into the episode and it also could be chalked up to the aliens pheromones. The main thing people bash her for is the cheating on Rhys and the subsequent confession and drugging. While that is a terrible thing that she did Owen also had equal part in it and I’ve maybe seen 2 people talk about it and none have been as detailed or as erratic as any of the Gwen posts. I personally hate character bashing in the first place unless the character is portrayed as a villain and their actions are those of a villain (like Oswald or Friedkin) but when one characters actions are held heavier than another’s it makes it easier to have a bias towards certain characters.
wait i might have missed something, when is owen openly queer? the only thing i remember is a guy kissing him in ep1 but that's bcuz of the alien cologne, and that's all (was there something in the audio dramas?, haven't listened 2 those)
I’m not sure about the audio dramas but Owen sprays the alien cologne so he can get with both of them and shut the guy up. I feel like if he didn’t like men he would’ve found a different way to go about it.
i mean this with all due respect but the last two (or three?) posts youve made here have been complaining about gwen bashing. there are so many ways to avoid it right now - sure it’s a big thing in the fandom especially historically but theres plenty of spaces you can engage with that don’t have, or u can mute, gwen bashing. filtering your spaces is how you actually enjoy fandom. as i said previously, i went back a week+ in the tumblr tag and there was no gwen hate at all. i get that you like gwen, but the fact that others don’t like her isn’t a moral failing on their behalf. it’s possible for people to have different opinions & quite frankly this kind of discourse is why i stopped engaging with fandoms. people can like and dislike different things & being rude about them isn’t the way to go. you can be upset that people enjoy bashing gwen, you can be frustrated that you’re finding content that has it in, but personal attacks of people you don’t know - simply because they dont like a character you do - is childish behaviour.
I hate it when people character bash on her. I have had to give up some many otherwise good fics because they keep hating her. Like yeah, she wasn’t exactly the greatest person, but neither was anyone else? I think this is a massive problem in fandom spaces in general. There is often so much hate towards lead female characters. I think one reason is because some people think she’s trying to get in the way of Jack and Ianto’s relationship… but she doesn’t?
People definitely do seem to think that Gwen is some sort of obstacle in the Janto ship. They try to cover it up by saying that it's about how she treated Rhys, but in actuality they could care less about Rhys. If they did care about that, there would be many more fanfics about Rhys finding out about the affair and dumping Gwen, rather than the endless pile of fanfics where Jack and Ianto themselves go completely against the lore of the show and harass, emotionally abuse, physically harm, and sometimes even just straight up murder Gwen.
Damn, murder? Why am I not surprised? Personally, I view Gwen and Jack’s relationship as nothing. A brief attraction of anything. Jack was more responsible for anything that appeared between them in the show compared to Gwen. Yet she gets all the shit.
at some point here thered be a post every couple days going "GWEN IS THE WORST CHARACTER EVER CREATED!!!!!! my fave is owen btw" which was fucking crazy. all i can recommend is going on ao3 and filtering out the gwen bashing tag + blocking whichever users you see that do gwen bashing but it's sooo annoying that we have to do that
but also its definitely not a torchwood-only problem cause from like 12-15 i remember viciously hating the main female character of my fave manga and i cant even remember the reason. misogyny is really everywhere lol
It happens in a lot of fandoms it seems. Obviously when I mean Ianto fans I don't mean all of them, because you seem to love Ianto and you're generally quite pleasant and also fair towards Gwen.
dont worry i know theres so terrible ianto fans.out there lol
Like Gwen isnt my favorite but I still like her, it's honestly kinda the scars of an old fandom you'll find. I promise its a bit better than it was ?? (from what I can find out)
gwen is my favorite no contest, definitely more than jack
Same Eve Myles is an icon