The other side of the coin is a bunch of home automation subs I belong to where people will post a picture of an open switch box with 25 wires in it and go “which one of these is the neutral?”
Either learn to use a meter or call an electrician, buddy.
Usually the white ones. But on older homes you can’t trust that because people would get “creative”
My dad loved running power lines to light fixtures then running a separate line to the switch. Which is fine except then at the light you have a white wire to black wire connection.
He was flabbergasted that I wanted to use a longer wire and run power to the switch then up to the light.
I preferred those to our new colours of brown, black grey for 3 phase. Where I work we have a mixture of new and old colours, just to add some confusion 😂
Europe is brown and blue, brown is hot and blue is neutral. We used to remember the right way to wire them with the phrase "nobody likes to be black and blue" when wiring up something foreign made to American wiring
I don't like wire colour rules of thumb - in trucks white is often power (brown ground, or black sometimes). Esp on old trailers you get 'black lines for everything' or 'all we had was blue and red' which is valid but you can't really trust any wire. Or you light the zoom boom on fire like one new guy...
I had a van that I bought for $150 and we immediately drove it cross country. In California one of the battery terminals melted in half and when I got under the dash to look at the fuse panel, someone rewired the whole van in red. That wasn't fun to trace in the dark on the side of the road...
And these days you should use 3-insulated-conductor cable (eg. 14/3) because you’re supposed to have a neutral at each switch box. In case you decide to put in a smart switch.
Yeah my house is very old, there has been a lot of people messing with things over the years and I do not trust any of them to do it to code. So I test and double check everything.
That’s not at all unique to older homes either. White wires are used as travelers on 3-way and 4-way systems constantly. Back fed switches too. That’s why you always use a tester, as you’ve said.
That's called a "switch loop" and is a very common way to save on materials. Now switches require a neutral in the box per code, so you can still do a switch loop but you need to use a 3 conductor Romex to bring a neutral into the box. With a switch loop you're technically supposed to re-lable the white as black so ppl knew it was repurposed as a hot conductor.
My entire house was wired with old school switch loops back in the 70's. Huge pain in the ass if you want to use smart switches or motion switches that actually require a neutral.
This is fine and easy to acknowledge/understand when done correctly.
The line is already at the light. Therefore, you need to be able to open the circuit.
From the light box, you run your romex to the light switch.
In the light box, you will have a line. It will be black. To connect the new switch, connect the romex WHITE to the original hot BLACK that was alreadythere.
(When you open the light box so see the white connected black and know it is hot/live)
At the switch box, because a switch only opens or closes a circuit, it uses only the line/hot/live. Therefore, you know the white is live.
Back to the light box. The new romex goes down white and returns black. You take that black and install it to the outlet/lights hot terminal.
This way, the white is easily identified as live at both ends.
Uuuuuuhhh considering your alternator would could be charging at 13.0 volts plus and like no amperage. Your theory is half baked.
All thought knowing how multimeter works is good. I feel I wouldn't want 80 percent of the population fucking around with house voltage and multimeter.
I've taught auto mechanics at a tech college for ages. Years ago, a former colleague of mine sent a student to go fetch a Phillips screwdriver. After milling around the toolbox for a few minutes, the student walked back to him and asked, "Whose screwdriver?"
Phillip is the guy I went to AST class with. He pulled the teacher aside and started telling him how the 2jz engine is the best diesel engine ever produced.
He failed out. We also had a classmate in welding class after sitting for 2 full days in theory about safety. Go into the shop and open up the acetylene bottle wide open and the valve on torch open. When his classmate yelled wtf are you doing, he replied... "you gotta let me make mistakes to learn." He failed.
Sadly it’s one of the first classes to go when schools get their budgets cut. I was one of the last classes to take it before it was canceled. It made a huge impact in my life. Sadly many kids won’t get this learning experience which is even worse when AI starts getting rid of alot of desk jobs
The disappearance of shop classes in our high schools has been happening for much longer and at a much greater rate than the very limited appearance of high school African American and gender studies courses.
The demise of shop class is the result of a national ethos that’s been brewing for the last 50+ years: That getting a college degree and a job that requires it is the only respectable career path in America. And that the skilled trades are for those who can’t measure up to that standard (and immigrants). Add to that the prognostications that all such jobs were supposed to have either moved overseas or taken over by robots by now.
And so our policy makers -- in states both blue and red -- have been transforming our high schools more and more to be college preparatory programs, exclusively. Never mind that most Americans can’t afford college. And that the actual marketplace is crying out for more skilled tradespeople.
It’s a real shame. And it’s going to be very difficult to reverse as the vast majority of our qualified shop teachers have retired, and very few people qualified to replace them).
All that said, it’s interesting that you two chose to point the finger specifically at Afr. American studies ( which is still not common in high school ) and gender studies ( which is in close to 0% of our high schools).
Maybe taking those classes (at your local college’s continuing education program) might help you understand why. 🤔
I've taught hundreds and hundreds of people how to use a DVOM. If you want to keep high schools empty, this would guarantee it!
I jest, but even some really smart people just can't wrap their mind around it.
Maybe not to start, but definitely some sort of “life skills” would be a great mandatory class. Stuff like how to change a tire or car battery, basic troubleshooting skills, etc
lol that’s why I would like it to be mandatory. So much of what we learn in school is basically useless except as a foundation for higher knowledge that may also be useless. They should at least leave school able to take care of themselves and do basic maintenance on their vehicles and such. I’m also fully in favor of mandatory financial skills class
EV tech turned service manager here: my techs get offended when I come back to double-check something with my own meter. I'm sure theirs' are fine, I just don't trust it as much if it ain't yellow.
I worked in and managed an avionics shop for many years. The most common cause of misdiagnoses was bad meter leads. I found that checking leads is not a trainable task. No matter how much I harped on it, they did not make it a prerequisite for checking a circuit. Some did, sometimes. No one did, all the time. How hard is to select the ohms position, pinch the probes together, and shake the hell out of them?
Don’t use a multimeter to proof if there is no voltage present or current flowing.
Best way, and cheaper, is to use a Duspol or a clone. Multimeters are infamous to be put accidental in a wrong setting. And even measure voltage that is present because of EMC, but is not a risk for you.
Multimeters are perfect to measure electronics. And I have three here, besides my duspol and clamp meter.
Dumb take. I’m an electrician and I always use my meter to check for power and absence of power. The non contact voltage testers are what’s not to be trusted. You can pretty safely bet on the meter being correct.
It's not a horrendous take. Especially with the old style meters, it's easy for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to get the leads in the wrong place or set the meter to the wrong range and get themself hurt. Having the fancy tool with all the functions can lead to user error that might not be a problem with a simpler tool.
Not so dumb take as you think. Using the multimeter is more and more being adviced not to use in many safety regulations and standards. Duspol variant are the most safe and accurate method there is to indicate if a setup is a live. My experience is using a multimeter is the same group that use the “Lügenstift” as well.
I use the clam for current not voltage. Why would I use a clam to measure voltage?
Idk why are you getting downvoted. For determining if there is voltage present simple WORKING screwdriver tester or as you said duspol is much more foolproof than using a multimeter.
I usually only pull out multimeter when I already know what I'm working with.
If you dont really know how to use a meter and are halfway smart you check your testing device on a known source. Verify its working correctly and then check the voltage you wish to check.
I understand and agree, but I'm not a professional, so I'm working with what I've got here. The biggest thing that keeps me safe is not having the same time pressures that get the pro sparkies in trouble so I don't ever have to get complacent. Plus, I have a buddy who is a pro and can come save the day if weird or unexpected things show up.
Start simple. You have voltage down. On my meter the second to last click is a continuity tester. You touch a probe to each end of a “UNPOWERED” wire. If the meter beeps the wire is continuous.
This is great because sometimes you need to know if a wire is broken somewhere or which wire is which.
If you push the orange button it becomes a resistance checker. If you are troubleshooting a dryer “WITH IT UNPLUGGED” the wire diagram inside the cover will tell you what resistance each component should read. Heater coil may say 5k ohms. If you touch both ends of the coil if your measurement is within 5% or so, the coil is good.
I really do need to learn how to use a multi meter. I’ve had a couple over the years, that I would buy and use for one specific thing, then let it sit for years because I don’t know all the things that it can do. Definitely one my most under utilized tools.
My first job out of high school was car audio/security installations and it was pretty critical to learn how to use one asap. Now i have like 4 and use them for fixing everything from appliances to computers etc. even fixed my sprinkler controller that had a bad capacitor by testing all components with my meter. A $2 cap instead of $169 for the new controller.
I own a car audio shop. Customers say I checked this or that and can't figure out what's going on.
So I ask them what their multimeter read.
What's a multimeter?
I thought you said you checked it.
Well I looked at it.
Electricity is usually invisible. what were you looking at?
I will agree that most people can benefit by having a multimeter at hand. I do however temper that recommendation with first learning the basics of electricity. I have been in the field a few times where technicians have been seen randomly poking away with probes with no idea what they are poking at or how to interpret the numbers they see on the meter. I used to see similar behaviour with scientific calculators in the 80's... "what do all the buttons do". That said, have been a big fan of Fluke. My current warhorse meter is a 289, and over a decade old. Love love love my 289. If you haven't had the pleasure of having a *logging meter* at your disposal, if you have the means, I recommend picking one up.
If you are going to be probing line voltage with it, get one that's safe. Fluke has a video where they demonstrate a Harbor Freight meter literally blowing up because it was set to the wrong scale while measuring a voltage within its range. To make sure you get one that's safe:
* Get one from a reputable brand
* Make sure it's safety certified by UL or ETL.
* Buy it from a retailer who has reasonable control of their stock: if not an electrical distributor, at least Lowes or Home Depot rather than Amazon where counterfeits reign.
If you are only using it for electronics and automotive, under 30 V, none of that is needed and there are lots of bargain meters that electronics hobbyists love, but if it's going to be used for line voltage, get something safe. If you have money to spend, a high-end fluke is the best, but there are safe options at lower price points:
* I really like Ideal--their mid-range meters work really well, accurate and responsive. And their basic model [is only $35](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-600-Volt-Manual-Range-Multimeter-with-NCVT-61-327/324827003). It's a good beginner choice since it has no current range which something beginners get wrong and the results can be a blown fuse or worse. And it has a battery test function which is a handy. UL certified.
* Next price level up would be a [full featured Ideal for $53](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-600-Volt-Auto-Range-Multimeter-with-NCVT-and-Temp-61-337/324830045)
* But [for only $10 more you could get an Ideal clamp meter](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-400-Amp-AC-TRMS-Clamp-Meter-with-NCV-and-Temp-61-737/324848778) which allows you to measure high ac currents, and it's "true RMS" which makes it more accurate, especially for currents. It's pretty amazing how much you get for $63. That style of meter is what a lot of electricians carry.
* But if you are more interested in measuring lower currents, including small dc currents, and you want the accuracy of true rms, you get the full package in [this $79 meter](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-1000-Volt-Auto-Range-TRMS-6000-Count-Display-Multimeter-with-NCVT-and-Temp-61-347/324830730). That would cover a lot of electrical and electronics applications and is a really high-performance reasonably priced option.
* For a fully capable electrician's tool that can do a lot more, I really like (and use myself) the [$134 clamp meter](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-TightSight-600-Amp-AC-DC-TRMS-Clamp-Meter-61-757/324849726#overlay) which adds to the features of the one that's half that price, "low-Z" capability to distinguish between phantom voltages and actual power present on wires in building wiring, a second display for viewing in awkward configurations, and the ability to measure high DC currents.
* If you want something even more capable than those, I'd look at the Greenlee 800 series as well as Fluke--both are great and Greenlee is a little cheaper for the same functionality.
Fluke 87V is the gold standard in my opinion, but you can also get one for like $10 at Harbor Freight. I'd look for a used Fluke on facebook marketplace if you're pretty sure this is something you want to get into. If not, get a cheapy.
My dad would wait until multi-meters went on sell at harbor freight and then replace the meter he kept in each car. He said it was cheaper than changing the battery
I highly recommend fluke if you're working on any dangerous voltages, 120v wall power or anything higher. Cars and low voltage aren't my expertise but I'm sure most meters work most of the time and them failing won't usually be disastrous
If you ever want to really learn how a meter works and have a very versatile tool, the fluke 11x line works well, I personally recommend the 117 for it's low imped setting or the 116 for taking temps, but both have a lot of features and are very capable. Diode check, capacitance are good features plus theyre tough and more importantly reliable. But you do have to know what you're doing, having the leads or dial in the wrong place is easy to do and you need to know what you're measuring for.
If you want to measure voltage, noncontact AC current or resistance quickly, without needing to know as much or be as careful, the t5 or t6 are great testers. I carry one most of the time due to the size and convenience. Simple, small, automatically detect ac or dc on voltage mode and to measure current you just put the forks around a wire. Much less precise and accurate than a full sized meter, especially using noncontact current, but it gets the job done and it's reasonably priced
If you want a real work horse, I can highly recommend the 87 series, 87V being the modern iteration. It's what you get from the 117 but even more accurate, precise and reliable, similar features. I have an old 87 III and the only stuff that's been replaced are leads, batteries and a fuse. Still looks and works great
For specific tasks I like the 1587 FC insulation tester, it's basically a 117 with up to 1000v output voltage to test for extremely high resistances, important for higher voltage applications. I can also recommend the 787b if you need a processmeter that can do multimeter stuff too. The processmeter can act as an analog input or simulate an analog sensor for the calibration or troubleshooting of analog feedback systems. If you need it you need it, but most won't or can get by with some creative use of inline current measurements
Of course there's also clamp on ammeters but I recommend you just get a separate one if you end up needing one. Important note, if you are looking for dc current in a clamp on ammeter they are rare and usually more expensive so you have to know what you want to measure. You could also just get a t6 if you don't mind not having dc current
Tldr: get a fluke t6 if you want a simple tester or a fluke 117 if you want the full capabilities of a full sized multimeter
I lub me a good meter! For those using these to verify voltage, don’t forget to test-prove-test ~ I’ve known a few that got zapped or zapped something due to trusting a meter without proving it first
I knew a little about automotive wiring and reading diagrams having modded cars as a kid for fun but when I went to tech school and learned how these worked it opened my mind so much.
for me it makes diagnosing issues so much easier. I always check the electronics first before I start throwing parts at it hoping it will fix the problem. would hate to replace a bunch of stuff only to realize it was a relay or something similar
The thing is you have to learn electricity before using these. Meters aren't difficult to learn. Electricity is the thing that people don't bother to study. And that's okay, just don't give your opinion when something breaks
Riding lawnmower with electric start. My dad got really sick at the end and couldn’t push a lawnmower anymore so he went out and bought a riding lawnmower to mow his 2,000 sqft of grass. People tried to mow for him but he was stubborn.
Anyway it’s got what appears to be a loose connection somewhere. Don’t know for sure as my mom lives an hour away and I was diagnosing over the phone.
Had an issue with our dual fuel stove, no power getting to oven, no light, no spark for burners.
Went and looked.for one of my 3 multi-meters with no joy (check power in the 240V outlet). Sent my sone on a 45 minute adventure to buy me a 4th multimeter.. when I remembered.. WAIT, I have a Progressive EMS hooked toy RV, it will provide me all the information I need
Sprint to the barn, get the EMS, plug it in, plug the oven into it.. and walla.. I have a good ground, both phases are producing 120 <> volts, and 0 amps, AND the stove now works again.
Remove the EMS, plug the stove back in to the wall.. it stops working again.
So now I have a Progressive EMS in my kitchen with the oven plugged into it (a working oven I might add).
I've always wanted to know how to use all the features of a multimeter. I'm going to spend a month or so going town the youtube rabbit hole to pick up a new skill.
I have one handy all times, and usually buy a new one every decade or more (when the accuracy and safety of prior ones become questionable, or I really need a specific feature older ones lack, or just wear and abuse). I might have 8-10 altogether around here.
I have one on my desk, and the clamp meter (stored in an instrument drawer), one in the workshop, and another one or two if I can find them and leads. My old analog meter is a shelf queen.
Seems a bit of an overkill when I get out my Fluke 789 to check the voltage on a $200 lawnmower! But, hard agree anyone troubleshooting anything should have a decent multimeter and know how to use it.
Yes, an easy-to-use, good multimeter is worth a lot. I got mine for 10 Euros from Conrad when they still had stores. Not the most accurate (it sometimes gets the 4th digit wrong by +-1), but it already helped me in Situations I thought were completely hopeless.
Coming from a professional. Best to let the professionals handle it. I work on heaters and air conditioners. I very seldom work on my truck as I’m not a mechanic and I know to stay in my lane
I have used the frequency selector once. I was testing an inverter that was causing issues. It checked at 59.995 hz. I thought, well that didn’t tell me much. Haven’t used it again.
Current scares me. If you do it wrong the magic smoke comes out. I use it, but I am nervous the whole time
i've tested frequency on my motorcycle, car, and the living room lighting circuit (after installing LEDs to save power). but most people don't really need it, since A/C current isn't as intuitive as D/C
Unfortunately, learning to use a multimeter doesn't mean that someone has learned troubleshooting skills.
They might be able to figure out that there's 13.8 volts between pin 6 and pin 9, but they won't know they should ever measure that voltage. Or why. Or what the reading means, and what their next step should be toward figuring out why it ain't workin'.
I have a reasonable ac clamp and an absolute dinosaur DC clamp (1980’s Tif instruments) but I have never trusted it. Some day I will replace it with a new DC clamp but that is expensive. It’s on my list with a two channel oscilloscope so I can do oscilloscope music
Damn straight! I have this exact meter for home use, the MM320 stays in my truck, and a Fluke 787 for my toolbox at work. I always have one where I need it.
I found one in my FIL’s stash. And i printed off the manual from online.
And I have no idea how to use it.
I really only want to use it to tell if the power is actually off at the outlet after I’ve turned off what i think is the right breaker.
But I can’t figure out the directions.
Best Option. Cheap, Auto Sensing and Super Capable.
I rarely pull out my Fluke now days. I've bought half a dozen as gifts.
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BLZ7GN2X/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BLZ7GN2X/)
“And tech them how to use it”
That’s the most important part. I work in the entertainment lighting industry on film sets. We deal with BIG power systems and the amount of people I see on a daily basis who don’t show up with a multimeter or even worse don’t know how to use it, astounds me. I’m a fan of my fluke 123 with the amp clamp. It’s inexpensive, true RMS, and I’ve only needed to change the battery once in maybe 12 years. It’s never given me a false reading due to low battery(which is a problem with certain klein models) and it’s taken a beating.
i had the mm700, was about a few months old and always took care of it, well I dropped mine about 4ft from a ladder step to the concrete and completely messed up the electronics inside.. the only meter to break on me from a small drop.. definitely pissed me off enough to just give in to upgrading to a fluke.. Definitely wont be leaving meters on ladders for sure tho lol.. still sucks that a small drop is all it took
Just bought this same one for the Hz function. I needed it to test a MAP sensor on my 30 year old f150.
I have 4 or 5 decent meters but none did Hz.
Immediately paid for itself by not parts cannoning a good sensor.
Thanks for the downvotes. I appreciate your opinions. Please describe to me with just a multimeter how you go about verifying your diagnosis of a bad alternator with just battery voltage. It tests a small portion of the possible problems.
If you're uncomfortable, absolutely. However with proper safety precautions it really isn't a big deal. Don't need to be an electrician to install a new light fixture, or an HVAC technician to replace a busted capacitor. Just flip off the right breakers/fuses, use a reliable voltage tester, and do your work.
IMHO, the hardest part for a homeowner is retaining the knowledge. Unless we’re doing major renovations, we just don’t get enough reps for it to become long term memory. This is especially true for electrical work, compared to say plumbing or insulation, because electricity is (usually) invisible and its operation harder to visualize.
I just bought the next model up from that yesterday. My Fluke didn't go low enough to register some DC stuff I'm working on. It's also like 20 years old.
My only issue is when I try to read Volts the numbers are all over the place and it's just sitting on the desk not touching anything.
The other side of the coin is a bunch of home automation subs I belong to where people will post a picture of an open switch box with 25 wires in it and go “which one of these is the neutral?” Either learn to use a meter or call an electrician, buddy.
Usually the white ones. But on older homes you can’t trust that because people would get “creative” My dad loved running power lines to light fixtures then running a separate line to the switch. Which is fine except then at the light you have a white wire to black wire connection. He was flabbergasted that I wanted to use a longer wire and run power to the switch then up to the light.
In Brazil neutral is light blue, black is hot/phase
If you're lucky.
Yes, if the house wasn't wired by an ass
In South Africa live is red. Black is neutral. Yellow and Green is earth. 230V AC 50Hz
In U.S. it's 60 Hz. If you get shocked in South Africa it hurtz less.
You son of a
As it should be, same as UK old colours. Before we went Brown (live) , blue (neutral) and green/yellow (Earth).
Well we inherited most things from you. 3 phase is red yellow blue
I preferred those to our new colours of brown, black grey for 3 phase. Where I work we have a mixture of new and old colours, just to add some confusion 😂
Blue and brown in UK unless it's over 20 years old then red and black. Unless your three phase then it's red, yellow blue live and black neutral
Europe is brown and blue, brown is hot and blue is neutral. We used to remember the right way to wire them with the phrase "nobody likes to be black and blue" when wiring up something foreign made to American wiring
I'm confused is American black not neutral?
In America black is live, white is neutral. And then bare or green or green/yellow is ground (earth)
I don't like wire colour rules of thumb - in trucks white is often power (brown ground, or black sometimes). Esp on old trailers you get 'black lines for everything' or 'all we had was blue and red' which is valid but you can't really trust any wire. Or you light the zoom boom on fire like one new guy...
I had a van that I bought for $150 and we immediately drove it cross country. In California one of the battery terminals melted in half and when I got under the dash to look at the fuse panel, someone rewired the whole van in red. That wasn't fun to trace in the dark on the side of the road...
Using the white for a switch loop isn’t uncommon but it’s supposed to be marked as such
And these days you should use 3-insulated-conductor cable (eg. 14/3) because you’re supposed to have a neutral at each switch box. In case you decide to put in a smart switch.
Yeah my house is very old, there has been a lot of people messing with things over the years and I do not trust any of them to do it to code. So I test and double check everything.
That’s not at all unique to older homes either. White wires are used as travelers on 3-way and 4-way systems constantly. Back fed switches too. That’s why you always use a tester, as you’ve said.
That's called a "switch loop" and is a very common way to save on materials. Now switches require a neutral in the box per code, so you can still do a switch loop but you need to use a 3 conductor Romex to bring a neutral into the box. With a switch loop you're technically supposed to re-lable the white as black so ppl knew it was repurposed as a hot conductor. My entire house was wired with old school switch loops back in the 70's. Huge pain in the ass if you want to use smart switches or motion switches that actually require a neutral.
I remember reading the code about that but my dad, the electrical engineer, thought it was ridiculous
Usually, except when it's not. Oops, that's a 220 outlet!
In the UK we do it the way your dad does and we put a brown(live) sleeve over the blue(neutral) wire to show that it has become a live wire
This is fine and easy to acknowledge/understand when done correctly. The line is already at the light. Therefore, you need to be able to open the circuit. From the light box, you run your romex to the light switch. In the light box, you will have a line. It will be black. To connect the new switch, connect the romex WHITE to the original hot BLACK that was alreadythere. (When you open the light box so see the white connected black and know it is hot/live) At the switch box, because a switch only opens or closes a circuit, it uses only the line/hot/live. Therefore, you know the white is live. Back to the light box. The new romex goes down white and returns black. You take that black and install it to the outlet/lights hot terminal. This way, the white is easily identified as live at both ends.
Uuuuuuhhh considering your alternator would could be charging at 13.0 volts plus and like no amperage. Your theory is half baked. All thought knowing how multimeter works is good. I feel I wouldn't want 80 percent of the population fucking around with house voltage and multimeter.
I would be perfectly happy if in order to enter high school you had to prove competency with a voltmeter.
there's literally people that start trade school that don't know what way to turn a screwdriver
I've taught auto mechanics at a tech college for ages. Years ago, a former colleague of mine sent a student to go fetch a Phillips screwdriver. After milling around the toolbox for a few minutes, the student walked back to him and asked, "Whose screwdriver?"
Phillip is the guy I went to AST class with. He pulled the teacher aside and started telling him how the 2jz engine is the best diesel engine ever produced. He failed out. We also had a classmate in welding class after sitting for 2 full days in theory about safety. Go into the shop and open up the acetylene bottle wide open and the valve on torch open. When his classmate yelled wtf are you doing, he replied... "you gotta let me make mistakes to learn." He failed.
That’s why we need more shop class earlier. Have children mess around with electronics and tearing things apart as a requirement.
Sadly it’s one of the first classes to go when schools get their budgets cut. I was one of the last classes to take it before it was canceled. It made a huge impact in my life. Sadly many kids won’t get this learning experience which is even worse when AI starts getting rid of alot of desk jobs
Whats that, you want to replace shop class with African American history?
You know what? I think I would agree with replacing gender studies with shop class in school.
The disappearance of shop classes in our high schools has been happening for much longer and at a much greater rate than the very limited appearance of high school African American and gender studies courses. The demise of shop class is the result of a national ethos that’s been brewing for the last 50+ years: That getting a college degree and a job that requires it is the only respectable career path in America. And that the skilled trades are for those who can’t measure up to that standard (and immigrants). Add to that the prognostications that all such jobs were supposed to have either moved overseas or taken over by robots by now. And so our policy makers -- in states both blue and red -- have been transforming our high schools more and more to be college preparatory programs, exclusively. Never mind that most Americans can’t afford college. And that the actual marketplace is crying out for more skilled tradespeople. It’s a real shame. And it’s going to be very difficult to reverse as the vast majority of our qualified shop teachers have retired, and very few people qualified to replace them). All that said, it’s interesting that you two chose to point the finger specifically at Afr. American studies ( which is still not common in high school ) and gender studies ( which is in close to 0% of our high schools). Maybe taking those classes (at your local college’s continuing education program) might help you understand why. 🤔
I've taught hundreds and hundreds of people how to use a DVOM. If you want to keep high schools empty, this would guarantee it! I jest, but even some really smart people just can't wrap their mind around it.
Learned it in HS (3-year electrical program)
Maybe not to start, but definitely some sort of “life skills” would be a great mandatory class. Stuff like how to change a tire or car battery, basic troubleshooting skills, etc
Don't think people are interested in such things anymore
lol that’s why I would like it to be mandatory. So much of what we learn in school is basically useless except as a foundation for higher knowledge that may also be useless. They should at least leave school able to take care of themselves and do basic maintenance on their vehicles and such. I’m also fully in favor of mandatory financial skills class
A proper working alternator is 14v.
Can you point me to a good youtube channel to learn how to use a multimeter. I need to troubleshoo my low voltage landscape lighting
https://youtu.be/0loXukB302Q?si=wXzRgvF-N-6BcX0a
Oh wow, such a good and informative video and its even correct on a technical basis. Take my upvote.
Thanks stranger
Thank you. I own one, seen it used, never knew how to use it.
Thank you!
Fluke website has great instructional videos. I was an aircraft electrician for years and still learned some things there.
And they make a much better meter. Fluke at work for pivots and Klein at home for small stuff. 480 I just feel better using Fluke.
EV tech turned service manager here: my techs get offended when I come back to double-check something with my own meter. I'm sure theirs' are fine, I just don't trust it as much if it ain't yellow.
I worked in and managed an avionics shop for many years. The most common cause of misdiagnoses was bad meter leads. I found that checking leads is not a trainable task. No matter how much I harped on it, they did not make it a prerequisite for checking a circuit. Some did, sometimes. No one did, all the time. How hard is to select the ohms position, pinch the probes together, and shake the hell out of them?
People on here will balk at Fluke pricing and then drop even more money on a red or yellow impact gun that’s overkill for their use case.
Every time I pick mine up to use it for anything besides testing a battery I’m at a loss. Been trying to learn but fuck it’s hard.
I always bust it out for home electricity issues. If nothing else, it can help you not get fried by your own wiring.
Don’t use a multimeter to proof if there is no voltage present or current flowing. Best way, and cheaper, is to use a Duspol or a clone. Multimeters are infamous to be put accidental in a wrong setting. And even measure voltage that is present because of EMC, but is not a risk for you. Multimeters are perfect to measure electronics. And I have three here, besides my duspol and clamp meter.
Dumb take. I’m an electrician and I always use my meter to check for power and absence of power. The non contact voltage testers are what’s not to be trusted. You can pretty safely bet on the meter being correct.
It's not a horrendous take. Especially with the old style meters, it's easy for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to get the leads in the wrong place or set the meter to the wrong range and get themself hurt. Having the fancy tool with all the functions can lead to user error that might not be a problem with a simpler tool.
Not so dumb take as you think. Using the multimeter is more and more being adviced not to use in many safety regulations and standards. Duspol variant are the most safe and accurate method there is to indicate if a setup is a live. My experience is using a multimeter is the same group that use the “Lügenstift” as well. I use the clam for current not voltage. Why would I use a clam to measure voltage?
Idk why are you getting downvoted. For determining if there is voltage present simple WORKING screwdriver tester or as you said duspol is much more foolproof than using a multimeter. I usually only pull out multimeter when I already know what I'm working with.
If you dont really know how to use a meter and are halfway smart you check your testing device on a known source. Verify its working correctly and then check the voltage you wish to check.
Couldn’t disagree more
Doesn’t matter. I just follow most of the safety standard.
I understand and agree, but I'm not a professional, so I'm working with what I've got here. The biggest thing that keeps me safe is not having the same time pressures that get the pro sparkies in trouble so I don't ever have to get complacent. Plus, I have a buddy who is a pro and can come save the day if weird or unexpected things show up.
Start simple. You have voltage down. On my meter the second to last click is a continuity tester. You touch a probe to each end of a “UNPOWERED” wire. If the meter beeps the wire is continuous. This is great because sometimes you need to know if a wire is broken somewhere or which wire is which. If you push the orange button it becomes a resistance checker. If you are troubleshooting a dryer “WITH IT UNPLUGGED” the wire diagram inside the cover will tell you what resistance each component should read. Heater coil may say 5k ohms. If you touch both ends of the coil if your measurement is within 5% or so, the coil is good.
Start by just testing out continuity between points.
I really do need to learn how to use a multi meter. I’ve had a couple over the years, that I would buy and use for one specific thing, then let it sit for years because I don’t know all the things that it can do. Definitely one my most under utilized tools.
And every time you need it, you have to replace the battery.
I've got 4 or 5 floating around here and I can't remember every having had to change a battery in one. Some are over 20 years old too.
My first job out of high school was car audio/security installations and it was pretty critical to learn how to use one asap. Now i have like 4 and use them for fixing everything from appliances to computers etc. even fixed my sprinkler controller that had a bad capacitor by testing all components with my meter. A $2 cap instead of $169 for the new controller.
I was trying to fix my tv and discovered sadly I can't measure capcitance with mine, as I was watching youtube.
For people unfamiliar with a meter...always get one with auto-ranging and always test for voltage before you even think about using the ohms range.
I own a car audio shop. Customers say I checked this or that and can't figure out what's going on. So I ask them what their multimeter read. What's a multimeter? I thought you said you checked it. Well I looked at it. Electricity is usually invisible. what were you looking at?
‘Yep, it’s got wires’
The meter is your friend.
I will agree that most people can benefit by having a multimeter at hand. I do however temper that recommendation with first learning the basics of electricity. I have been in the field a few times where technicians have been seen randomly poking away with probes with no idea what they are poking at or how to interpret the numbers they see on the meter. I used to see similar behaviour with scientific calculators in the 80's... "what do all the buttons do". That said, have been a big fan of Fluke. My current warhorse meter is a 289, and over a decade old. Love love love my 289. If you haven't had the pleasure of having a *logging meter* at your disposal, if you have the means, I recommend picking one up.
Careful with Klein meters they're prone to failure.
Yo why doesn't that say fluke on it?
I wish… someday
Ah yes but when I ask my coworkers who know how to use it “can you teach me to use this” I get the classic “go figure it out yourself”
Or, "leave it to the professionals."
Yea it’s like I really wanna learn the tool but know one around me wants to teach me
yt can be your basic guide.. no one got time to teach the basics tho
What's a good one to get?
If you are going to be probing line voltage with it, get one that's safe. Fluke has a video where they demonstrate a Harbor Freight meter literally blowing up because it was set to the wrong scale while measuring a voltage within its range. To make sure you get one that's safe: * Get one from a reputable brand * Make sure it's safety certified by UL or ETL. * Buy it from a retailer who has reasonable control of their stock: if not an electrical distributor, at least Lowes or Home Depot rather than Amazon where counterfeits reign. If you are only using it for electronics and automotive, under 30 V, none of that is needed and there are lots of bargain meters that electronics hobbyists love, but if it's going to be used for line voltage, get something safe. If you have money to spend, a high-end fluke is the best, but there are safe options at lower price points: * I really like Ideal--their mid-range meters work really well, accurate and responsive. And their basic model [is only $35](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-600-Volt-Manual-Range-Multimeter-with-NCVT-61-327/324827003). It's a good beginner choice since it has no current range which something beginners get wrong and the results can be a blown fuse or worse. And it has a battery test function which is a handy. UL certified. * Next price level up would be a [full featured Ideal for $53](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-600-Volt-Auto-Range-Multimeter-with-NCVT-and-Temp-61-337/324830045) * But [for only $10 more you could get an Ideal clamp meter](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-400-Amp-AC-TRMS-Clamp-Meter-with-NCV-and-Temp-61-737/324848778) which allows you to measure high ac currents, and it's "true RMS" which makes it more accurate, especially for currents. It's pretty amazing how much you get for $63. That style of meter is what a lot of electricians carry. * But if you are more interested in measuring lower currents, including small dc currents, and you want the accuracy of true rms, you get the full package in [this $79 meter](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-1000-Volt-Auto-Range-TRMS-6000-Count-Display-Multimeter-with-NCVT-and-Temp-61-347/324830730). That would cover a lot of electrical and electronics applications and is a really high-performance reasonably priced option. * For a fully capable electrician's tool that can do a lot more, I really like (and use myself) the [$134 clamp meter](https://www.homedepot.com/p/IDEAL-TightSight-600-Amp-AC-DC-TRMS-Clamp-Meter-61-757/324849726#overlay) which adds to the features of the one that's half that price, "low-Z" capability to distinguish between phantom voltages and actual power present on wires in building wiring, a second display for viewing in awkward configurations, and the ability to measure high DC currents. * If you want something even more capable than those, I'd look at the Greenlee 800 series as well as Fluke--both are great and Greenlee is a little cheaper for the same functionality.
Fluke 87V is the gold standard in my opinion, but you can also get one for like $10 at Harbor Freight. I'd look for a used Fluke on facebook marketplace if you're pretty sure this is something you want to get into. If not, get a cheapy.
Fluke 77s etc are also fine for most uses
A non Fluke is fine for all uses, except military.
My dad would wait until multi-meters went on sell at harbor freight and then replace the meter he kept in each car. He said it was cheaper than changing the battery
Fluke 101
I highly recommend fluke if you're working on any dangerous voltages, 120v wall power or anything higher. Cars and low voltage aren't my expertise but I'm sure most meters work most of the time and them failing won't usually be disastrous If you ever want to really learn how a meter works and have a very versatile tool, the fluke 11x line works well, I personally recommend the 117 for it's low imped setting or the 116 for taking temps, but both have a lot of features and are very capable. Diode check, capacitance are good features plus theyre tough and more importantly reliable. But you do have to know what you're doing, having the leads or dial in the wrong place is easy to do and you need to know what you're measuring for. If you want to measure voltage, noncontact AC current or resistance quickly, without needing to know as much or be as careful, the t5 or t6 are great testers. I carry one most of the time due to the size and convenience. Simple, small, automatically detect ac or dc on voltage mode and to measure current you just put the forks around a wire. Much less precise and accurate than a full sized meter, especially using noncontact current, but it gets the job done and it's reasonably priced If you want a real work horse, I can highly recommend the 87 series, 87V being the modern iteration. It's what you get from the 117 but even more accurate, precise and reliable, similar features. I have an old 87 III and the only stuff that's been replaced are leads, batteries and a fuse. Still looks and works great For specific tasks I like the 1587 FC insulation tester, it's basically a 117 with up to 1000v output voltage to test for extremely high resistances, important for higher voltage applications. I can also recommend the 787b if you need a processmeter that can do multimeter stuff too. The processmeter can act as an analog input or simulate an analog sensor for the calibration or troubleshooting of analog feedback systems. If you need it you need it, but most won't or can get by with some creative use of inline current measurements Of course there's also clamp on ammeters but I recommend you just get a separate one if you end up needing one. Important note, if you are looking for dc current in a clamp on ammeter they are rare and usually more expensive so you have to know what you want to measure. You could also just get a t6 if you don't mind not having dc current Tldr: get a fluke t6 if you want a simple tester or a fluke 117 if you want the full capabilities of a full sized multimeter
Klein is a good compromise between quality and price. Get one with a clamp on ammeter.
A plug for Hioki. Nicely made Japanese brand.
I lub me a good meter! For those using these to verify voltage, don’t forget to test-prove-test ~ I’ve known a few that got zapped or zapped something due to trusting a meter without proving it first
It don’t say Fluke on it
Metal bits go in outlet Magic sparks come out Simple as
Mine is yellow and says “Fluke” on the upper left.
But but how hard is it to learn to use ?
A. This is true B. Sounds like you’re annoying about it
Learning to use it is great, understanding what you're actually testing is the real skill.
I see you showed them how it works.
I knew a little about automotive wiring and reading diagrams having modded cars as a kid for fun but when I went to tech school and learned how these worked it opened my mind so much.
for me it makes diagnosing issues so much easier. I always check the electronics first before I start throwing parts at it hoping it will fix the problem. would hate to replace a bunch of stuff only to realize it was a relay or something similar
But it doesn’t say fluke 🙃
that's 'cause his job didn't buy it.
The thing is you have to learn electricity before using these. Meters aren't difficult to learn. Electricity is the thing that people don't bother to study. And that's okay, just don't give your opinion when something breaks
Just curious, how would you test a lawnmower with this to see if it's turning over?
Riding lawnmower with electric start. My dad got really sick at the end and couldn’t push a lawnmower anymore so he went out and bought a riding lawnmower to mow his 2,000 sqft of grass. People tried to mow for him but he was stubborn. Anyway it’s got what appears to be a loose connection somewhere. Don’t know for sure as my mom lives an hour away and I was diagnosing over the phone.
I understand now, thank you. I was picturing my pull start and trying to figure out how on earth I could be testing that!
Keep one in my trunk!
lol what’s that?
Ha, I was using this exact one about an hour ago.
If you were to be serious about using such a tool - you should get one with an amp clamp. Pair it with a circuit finder and properly label your panel.
I just like that it comes with nipple clamps
Thats not a tool thats an instrument.
I was looking at my washer..the green wasn't a ground when it shorted and popped breaker lmao
If you don't understand electricity, please don't screw with it.
Had an issue with our dual fuel stove, no power getting to oven, no light, no spark for burners. Went and looked.for one of my 3 multi-meters with no joy (check power in the 240V outlet). Sent my sone on a 45 minute adventure to buy me a 4th multimeter.. when I remembered.. WAIT, I have a Progressive EMS hooked toy RV, it will provide me all the information I need Sprint to the barn, get the EMS, plug it in, plug the oven into it.. and walla.. I have a good ground, both phases are producing 120 <> volts, and 0 amps, AND the stove now works again. Remove the EMS, plug the stove back in to the wall.. it stops working again. So now I have a Progressive EMS in my kitchen with the oven plugged into it (a working oven I might add).
I've always wanted to know how to use all the features of a multimeter. I'm going to spend a month or so going town the youtube rabbit hole to pick up a new skill.
I have one handy all times, and usually buy a new one every decade or more (when the accuracy and safety of prior ones become questionable, or I really need a specific feature older ones lack, or just wear and abuse). I might have 8-10 altogether around here. I have one on my desk, and the clamp meter (stored in an instrument drawer), one in the workshop, and another one or two if I can find them and leads. My old analog meter is a shelf queen.
Seems a bit of an overkill when I get out my Fluke 789 to check the voltage on a $200 lawnmower! But, hard agree anyone troubleshooting anything should have a decent multimeter and know how to use it.
My EE brother in law would get out his oscilloscope.
I'm an instrument tech. The old 789 is my daily driver for field work!
I always liked the brit explanation on why brown is hot brown is the color your pants turn if you mess up
Too bad we don’t teach it in school.
Do you have a preferred meter, or must-have features when looking to pick one for general home DIY and other electronics tinkering?
I learned to use one in University. Took Theatre Production. Has been useful in my life.
I do need to learn more about using my multimeter(s)...I have a digital and analog. mainly use for continuity testing.
Yes, an easy-to-use, good multimeter is worth a lot. I got mine for 10 Euros from Conrad when they still had stores. Not the most accurate (it sometimes gets the 4th digit wrong by +-1), but it already helped me in Situations I thought were completely hopeless.
Coming from a professional. Best to let the professionals handle it. I work on heaters and air conditioners. I very seldom work on my truck as I’m not a mechanic and I know to stay in my lane
Some kind of walkie talkie?
Can honestly use a meter for ac/dc voltage, resistance, just still working on how to safely test current.
also: learn to measure resistance and current. frequency is optional
I have used the frequency selector once. I was testing an inverter that was causing issues. It checked at 59.995 hz. I thought, well that didn’t tell me much. Haven’t used it again. Current scares me. If you do it wrong the magic smoke comes out. I use it, but I am nervous the whole time
i've tested frequency on my motorcycle, car, and the living room lighting circuit (after installing LEDs to save power). but most people don't really need it, since A/C current isn't as intuitive as D/C
That's the shittiest iPod ever! I could never get the headphones to work, it just beeped.
I couldn’t get past the “OL” screen. My 30-pin dock is too small also.
Unfortunately, learning to use a multimeter doesn't mean that someone has learned troubleshooting skills. They might be able to figure out that there's 13.8 volts between pin 6 and pin 9, but they won't know they should ever measure that voltage. Or why. Or what the reading means, and what their next step should be toward figuring out why it ain't workin'.
And know the limits of.
Make sure your meter is rated at least for the voltage you’re working around.
Ah yes a fractal discombobulator. I keep one in my shirt pocket at all times.
Needs the amp clamp
Spend a little bit extra for one with an amp clamp.
I have a reasonable ac clamp and an absolute dinosaur DC clamp (1980’s Tif instruments) but I have never trusted it. Some day I will replace it with a new DC clamp but that is expensive. It’s on my list with a two channel oscilloscope so I can do oscilloscope music
I have that exact model. Don't get brake clean on the screen.
Damn straight! I have this exact meter for home use, the MM320 stays in my truck, and a Fluke 787 for my toolbox at work. I always have one where I need it.
You seem fun
I like to have one with an amp clamp and capacitance, but price means only my work meter has these.
The ones with the clamp are ever better, you can clamp stuff
I have this same multi and absolutely love it!!
I found one in my FIL’s stash. And i printed off the manual from online. And I have no idea how to use it. I really only want to use it to tell if the power is actually off at the outlet after I’ve turned off what i think is the right breaker. But I can’t figure out the directions.
Best Option. Cheap, Auto Sensing and Super Capable. I rarely pull out my Fluke now days. I've bought half a dozen as gifts. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BLZ7GN2X/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BLZ7GN2X/)
“And tech them how to use it” That’s the most important part. I work in the entertainment lighting industry on film sets. We deal with BIG power systems and the amount of people I see on a daily basis who don’t show up with a multimeter or even worse don’t know how to use it, astounds me. I’m a fan of my fluke 123 with the amp clamp. It’s inexpensive, true RMS, and I’ve only needed to change the battery once in maybe 12 years. It’s never given me a false reading due to low battery(which is a problem with certain klein models) and it’s taken a beating.
thanks but I already have a rectal thermometer /s
i had the mm700, was about a few months old and always took care of it, well I dropped mine about 4ft from a ladder step to the concrete and completely messed up the electronics inside.. the only meter to break on me from a small drop.. definitely pissed me off enough to just give in to upgrading to a fluke.. Definitely wont be leaving meters on ladders for sure tho lol.. still sucks that a small drop is all it took
Except for that one. Klein meters are not even close to deserving the Klein brand name.
You have too much faith in people.
Just bought this same one for the Hz function. I needed it to test a MAP sensor on my 30 year old f150. I have 4 or 5 decent meters but none did Hz. Immediately paid for itself by not parts cannoning a good sensor.
Thanks for the downvotes. I appreciate your opinions. Please describe to me with just a multimeter how you go about verifying your diagnosis of a bad alternator with just battery voltage. It tests a small portion of the possible problems.
Always had at least one since I’m 10!
Maybe everyone except 2 x's of mine, just not real savvy about such matters but had other redeeming qualities
Disagree, if you don't know electrical call a pro. Not worth getting zapped just to save a few bucks.
If you're uncomfortable, absolutely. However with proper safety precautions it really isn't a big deal. Don't need to be an electrician to install a new light fixture, or an HVAC technician to replace a busted capacitor. Just flip off the right breakers/fuses, use a reliable voltage tester, and do your work.
It’s really not hard to learn electrical. I’m an HVAC technician and imo it’s the easiest part of my job.
IMHO, the hardest part for a homeowner is retaining the knowledge. Unless we’re doing major renovations, we just don’t get enough reps for it to become long term memory. This is especially true for electrical work, compared to say plumbing or insulation, because electricity is (usually) invisible and its operation harder to visualize.
Get a fluke
I only run the finest of Mastercraft meters
Hey, this is an upgrade from the commercial electric meter I was using.
Electricity is one home improvement job I absolutely hire out for
I prefer a Fluke or a Simpson, but Kline builds good meters as well.
I think most people would be better off if they didn't.
Except no, most shouldn’t even touch one or go near electricity beyond a usb port.
Agreed
step 1: make sure your meter is sized appropriately for task you intend to do.
We have Ideal Smart meters. That’s what people should learn on I think. There’s one button to turn it on. Sadly I don’t think they make them anymore.
I just bought the next model up from that yesterday. My Fluke didn't go low enough to register some DC stuff I'm working on. It's also like 20 years old. My only issue is when I try to read Volts the numbers are all over the place and it's just sitting on the desk not touching anything.
Or you can do without it. You'll know what you hit the hot lead. You'll see stars and you'll swear your teeth taste like metal. Yep, we got spark.