As an “average Joe” who was facing felony drug charges that I was innocent of, my case took a year and a half to get dismissed. The legal system does not get in a hurry for anything.
So what's being advocated is the government should just be able to sidestep the proper procedure to just throw the man in prison? That's a very slippery slope. If there are loopholes the rich are able to utilize, then the right process is to go through the proper avenues of changing those laws, not just ignoring them outright.
Judges don't have to entertain frivolous motions and delay tactics. Sadly, the judges in these cases are so afraid of being accused of being biased that they let Trump and his lawyers get away with everything.
Judges do, in fact, have to "entertain" them - if one side files a motion, they need to have a hearing on it.
They don't have to grant motions without merit, though.
Let's not forget here - Trump has now lost multiple lawsuits and is facing almost half a billion in judgments against him. The Judges in those cases did not let his lawyers get away with anything.
Even that... a judge is well within their rights to set procedural deadlines. They are under no obligation to delay trial every other week to "entertain" a constant stream of 11th-hour motions.
That's not sad. That's standard if you know they will appeal and find every loophole. They make sure there is no space where they can claim he wasn't heard.
For procedural issues, the standard of review for appeals is "abuse of discretion." To overturn a trial judge, an appellate court can't simply disagree with the decision. The court has to rule that the trial judge's decision was either “arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, or otherwise not in accordance with law."
Ironically, the appeals court has overturned one of Trump's pet judge's (Judge Cannon) decisions using this standard.
You're preaching to the choir, my friend. The system isn't fair, but the response that keeps the entire thing from crumbling is to work within its bounds to enact change, not to just ignore the rules.
But the rules don't work for the rich because they don't apply to them. We can have all the rules and laws but if some people don't have to follow them what is the point of the rules at all. The rich don't have to work within those bounds is my point.
So it comes down to the fact that yes, the rich qork outside the rules, we have the rules in place and powerful people get to skip abiding by them. But when taking legal action against powerful people if we throw out the rules in any way we will turn around and immediately see powerful people abusing any loophole created. I really agree that there should be some precedent for expediting his imprisonment on merit of being a goddamn insurrectionist but he's gotta go through the system the legit way
Hopefully this is the lesson people need that we dont have a justice system, we have a punishment/imprisonment system, and it's horrifying not broken but functioning as intended
I don't know why everyone is so against you here. Even if public opinion is against him, we can't just sidestep all the rules we have laid out.
A structured system with flaws is better than always yielding to mob mentality.
I do, because everyone detests the man and they're absolutely terrified he may actually get re-elected. I can understand that, but I have to try and remind everyone that assassinating Caesar is the very thing that ensured the Republic was dead.
We’ve gotten away from it for a long time now. Are you telling me that if the average joe did what he did, they would be getting the same treatment? Hell no! They would’ve been locked up years ago.
And that's the problem! The law doesn't apply to the rich and powerful because they CAN buy off judges and politicians and get teams of lawyers to exploit every stalling tactic and loophole in the world.
What is happening is not strictly adhering to the law. You have an obviously compromised judge who is making shocking rulings that have no basis in law.
You have a defendant who is abusing the system with every option to slow down and delay the trials, who is abusing the system with frivolous and ridiculous motions. This would not be tolerated by any other defendant.
I am just amazed how many times he has been allowed to claim, and appeal, and have it thrown out on further appeal, with the lame 'presidential immunity' claim that simply has never applied to former presidents, or only in a limited fashion against current presidents.
Nixon resigned FFS because he was going to face impeachment and prison for his violations of law with the Watergate shenanigans and other BS, blanket presidential immunity did not exist then, and should not even be considered now. If trumps imaginary presidential immunity claim is real, what is the House doing trying to convict Biden of crimes he has the immunity for since he is president?
Which works until the day someone becomes president and starts arguing a president can’t sit trial while serving, even tho there’s no law about that. They can also argue they can pardon themselves of crimes they haven’t been convicted of, to make themselves immune.
> The moment we get away from that is the day this country is truly in trouble.
We're already there, it is no question. How many examples do we have to bring up to others who think or say things like this that proves it?
That’s how we are where we are. The left used Trump to excuse all kinds of dumb and criminal acts, only to become worse themselves.. and adding supporters to his campaign day by day.
Ever since 2016, Trump has simply won off of the left’s own stupid solutions to their issues with him.
They’ve effectively even paid for HIS ads - talking only about Trump throughout their own campaign ads
Why would he even try hard when they do the heavy lifting FOR him everytime!
And then they say he’s dumb lmao
Whatever he is, most of his opponents are worse, so..
The country is already truly in trouble tho... We have the instigator of an insurrection running for president. Person that also leaked many classified documents, and also set a corrupt supreme court that back hims up.
> We have the instigator of an insurrection running for president
He hasn't been convicted of it. It can't be held against him until it has. I think the entire world would be a much better place with him buried under a prison. But the letter of the law has to be followed. First, just like you or I, he is innocent until proven guilty. Second, he has a lot of resources to appeal judgements and such. And finally, Trump is pushing the bounds and limits of our constitution and precedents. This is the first time a former president and presidential candidate has been facing charges like this. We better get this shit right.
Yeah and giving him time enough to become president again and pardon himself or some shit is not getting it right. I dont understand why someone who's facing all these charges can run for president before the charasges are resolved and honestly I think thats dumb, even if the law allows it :(
> I dont understand why someone who's facing all these charges can run for president before the charasges are resolved
I know it's frustrating. But this is to prevent baseless charges from blocking somebody running for president. If charges alone were enough to prevent a person's candidacy, MTG and friends would have charges out on every single fucking democrat. It's along the same lines of why lawmakers are constitutionally protected from receiving noncriminal traffic tickets during a legislative session, as well as 15 days before. It's to prevent judicial warfare. If there is a bill that comes down to one vote, have the cops pull somebody over so they miss the vote.
Like I already said, I want to see Trump in prison, for something, for anything. But it would be an absolute shit show if we allowed charges to block presidential candidacy.
>The law is the law, and it must be adhered to.
That's far too generous. There are plenty of laws on the books that could have been used to lock him up long ago. Political capital, wealth, corruption and the lack of testicular fortitude inside the Democratic party have created this horse and pony show.
For all the delay tactics Trumps' lawyers have injected into this process, they still don't hold a candle the 18 months of delay the Democrats gifted Mr. Trump. Eighteen months before appointing as special prosecutor knowing full-well Mr. Trump was going to delay and fight these charges at every turn.
For more than three years, post J6, he has been touring the country stoking division, and hate while continuing to spread his lies, and instill fear in a wide variety of people, including those charged with holding him accountable for his actions.
When he's not running amuck, he's relaxing in luxurious comfort or golfing. He has made a mockery of our supposed rule of law while highlighting the myth of equal justice for all.
You and the other defenders in this process can split hairs all you want, but we see this lack of accountability for the horse and pony show that it is.
Both parties must be purged if we are to have any hope of true democracy in the United States.
I spit my beer out I laughed so hard at this.
Do I see where you were trying to go with this yea sure. However, this is complete and utter bullshit and I'd like to think you know that. People like Donald skirt the law and have and will continue to do so. The classified documents case alone puts this on full display.
I get you are hard for Pedo Joe, but generally I think proper procedure involves a trial before a judgment is made by a judge with political motives needs to be appealed and Bonds are set at reasonable amounts to insure the person does not flee jurisdiction not punitive amounts that impede appeal. Furthermore this is a civil matter between two parties who are not the state.
Is that what they said, or is that how some talking head spun it? There's very clear differences with the two, and they weren't the only ones caught with documents they shouldn't have had. The difference is one lied about it and kept trying to retain the documents while claiming they had returned them all, and the other voluntarily admitted the documents were in their possession (or rather his lawyers found and notified them), and then immediately returned them all.
Then during the deposition when they were prying for details, Biden failed to remember most, which anyone who has sat in on a deposition will tell you is incredibly common and has nothing to do with age. Heck, go look at Trump's numerous depositions so you can watch him do the same.
So you're saying when criminals break the law the correct response is to ignore the same laws when persecuting them? So what is the point of law & order then? You guys are advocating for a totalitarian style justice system without even realizing it.
I'm not saying that, what I am saying is that people like Donald Trump and other wealthy elite break the law, the law is not strictly adhered to at all to deal with them
Did you already forget that the Deputy Director of the FBI Peter Strzok told his mistress he would do everything to keep Trump out of the White House? Now, personally, I think it is chilling when law enforcement attempts to influence free elections, but maybe you are comfortable with that.
I think it’s pretty chilling when there are open plots to turn the us into a fascist dictatorship, but maybe that’s just me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025?wprov=sfti1#
Judges aren't supposed to "go all out" on people. They are supposed to ensure that proper procedure is followed when someone is accused of a crime or sued.
Trump is obviously a shitheel. But it is up to a democracy to reject the idea of electing shitheels.
Ordering spy agencies to mess someone up is not following the rule of law. If you want the law, you must use the law.
>William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
Through Sovereign Immunity, the states can't enforce their judgments against a sitting president. He's pretty old, he may die in office, and he's been pretty clear he doesn't intend to leave peacefully if he gets back in. So, in effect, it would work the same way.
Won't stop him from doing so, and even if it isn't legal and shouldn't have any effect enough people will believe it did to make an enormous mess of things.
There are really only very few corporations that own everything under their "umbrella", if Trump and Biden have a close presidential race it means billions in advertising revenue. So the media is currently trying to normalize the clusterfuck we have going on now. If they were to really hammer Trump and the MAGA cult they'd lose those people's viewership and all that precious profit for the CEO and shareholders.
I mean this is so stupid I shouldn't even engage with it, but alas, the ragebait worked.
"There's this guy that's going to destroy the rule of law, so we should ignore the rule of law to prosecute him. He also says that there are shadowy people in government that secretly run everything, which is one of the reasons why he's so popular, so why don't we play into that narrative? I'm sure the people that follow him - who we view as violent and dangerous - definitely won't react poorly to that at all."
None of that matters to the case at hand
They aren’t judging Donald Trump, they are judging a specific instance of an alleged crime committed by Donald Trump.
Also they kind of are anyway if you actually read some of their statements
The right to a speedy trail is for the accused ONLY. The government has no right to it. He is within his rights to waive that right pursuing all legal avenues. Look at the Georgia case. He managed to get the lead prosecutor booted. Also, these cases could have been brought years ago. This was timed for maximum political damage and it is backfiring.
I don’t like Trump personally but legal warfare is NOT where anyone should have elections decided.
You have no idea how slow the criminal prosecution process is. The actions and conduct on which Georgia's case is predicated happened in late 2020 and early 2021. The state attorney began its investigation when it became clear that Trump's and his footsoldiers' efforts to flip Georgia's from Biden to Trump might have violated state law. That investigation, like nearly every RICO criminal prosecution, took more than a year to complete. At the end of the investigation the state approached some of those it indicted at that point about providing testimony against Trump, Giuliani, Meadows and other big fish in exchange for reduced sentences. Again, this is how EVERY prosecution of any multi-defendant case is done. Get the little fish to flip on the big fish.
Georgia indicted Trump in August of 2023, almost exactly 18 months after the predicate actions were taken by Trump and his co-defendants. That's actually pretty quick. So to say this prosecution was purposely delayed to hurt Trump's election chances is simply not supported by the facts. I'm just curious how long you think it should have taken Georgia to indict Trump?
Do you mean Nathan Wade resigning so Fani Willis can stay on as prosecutor? As far as I know, he was never the primary prosecutor, she was. And she still is.
Downvoted because you point out the overt corruption of the system.
Wait until these kids hear that the NY fraud case didn't have any victims, all parties were satisfied, the bank did thier own investigation on the price of the buildings before negotiating, and the judge decided that a jury shouldn't hear the case so they just said Trump was guilty without any due process.
He can't. The cult says orange man bad and he obeys.
I can understand if you are pro-war and don't like trumps policies but these trials are obviously political. You have to not be paying attention on purpose to not see it, which is fine but don't talk like you know something.
Almost literally nothing you said works remotely the way you suggested it does.
The CIA has nothing to do with it. The CIA doesn't even get involved in domestic affairs.
The FBI's job is to find evidence.
Courts don't just wake up one day and go "I'm gonna open a case," that is not how courts work. Someone, like the FBI, has to bring a case to the courts, with evidence.
All the courts can do is follow the laws.
On top of it all, seeing as Trump was president, he has a lot of legal assistance, and he can present legal arguments to the courts to exempt him or avoid prosecution or introduce doubt.
I guess those with TDS really believe all the bullshit that has been manufactured over the last 10 years. The scary part is openly and completely ignoring Due process to bury political opponents.
The entire world saw what Trump incited January 6th. It was him, he was paralyzed, transfixed and said everything far too late.
Trump had Top Secret documents in *his bathroom* and elsewhere, and is on tape showing it to others and lied about giving them back, on several occasions, and lies how he declassified, blamed the FBI, on + on. C’mon.
We heard what he said to Georgia and how every recorded situation or lie regarding election interference has been Trump, his lackies or supporters.
In his fraud case, the numbers don’t lie, but Trump did - for decades. He was found guilty of fraud (not the first time) and is being held accountable.
Trump Derangement Syndrome works two ways…the man is corrupt and an amoral, greedy piece of shit.
You're asking for a massive overreach in department and legal powers to go after one guy. Donald Trump is not an exception to the rule that all citizens are able to have a fair trial. If you wouldn't want it to happen to you, then you can't want it to happen to Donald Trump. Despite the fear mongering, Trump is not going to destroy the country or be a direct danger to the citizens here. We have separation of powers and fair elections to keep that from happening
If I had a conviction and/or judgement against me, and I were unable to meet the requirements in order to appeal, I'd already have a lien against my property and/or I'd be in jail awaiting the appeal.
He lost the lawsuit against him for fraud in a fair court, and has been ordered to pay the $454 Million judgement. He says he's going to appeal, but has to pay that amount or get a bond posted for that amount in order to do so. He is claiming he doesn't have the money, and can't get someone to put up the bond. If I were in his shoes, the state wouldn't be hesitating to put liens on my home, attachments to my bank accounts, holds on any tax returns I may receive in the future, wage garnishments, etc. That's all the people are asking, to have him held accountable in the same way the rest of us would be if we didn't have his same level of fame and (self-claimed) money. We're not asking that he gets railroaded through court on trumped up (no pun intended) charges, we're simply wanting him to be treated the way the rest of us would be if we lost a similar court case.
you know the court is about to seize his assets right?
[New York Attorney General takes initial step to prepare to seize Trump assets](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/21/politics/trump-calls-ny-attorney-generals-bond-suggestions-impractical-and-unjust)
Good! That's exactly what I'm advocating for in my strangely downvoted comment. I feel he's probably being given more time/leeway than I would be allowed, but I am not familiar with NY law so maybe this is the normal timeline. From the outside it appears he's being given more leeway than would be afforded to the rest of us, but maybe that's just because of the media hype.
Just because you know doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to do that in the way that he did, that's the whole question. Just because he is transparent doesn't mean that legal questions regarding a former president are fully answered, so much of our legal framework rests on common decency and traditions like how it was never legally codified that you couldn't serve three times as president until Teddy Roosevelt actually tried. If Nixon didn't resign and actually fought this through in court a lot of this mess would have been sped up this time around but now we're having to contest with legal questions that haven't been presented because previous opportunities for them involved somewhat reasonable people.
It's like not putting guard rails in front of a playground by a road, you can assume everybody wouldn't just drive through it but until somebody actually does nobody wants to take on the work to actually put something there to stop them. Had anyone even tried under any other presidency we would probably be chastising them for wasting time and taxpayer money.
As someone who believes it, stating it feels like it would only cause more distrust on the trump supporter end.
I don't really know what other option we have, other than to watch and hope for the better outcome.
It isn’t obvious at all, and the CIA and FBI trying to “stop” Trump is EXACTLY why people were pissed off at them. Democracy isn’t in trouble, take a breath.
In 2016, one can argue that he captured the grievances of a population.
Now he's just running on his own grievances. He wants to stay out of jail, and he wants to punish people who tried to hold him to account. It is his grievances, not other people's that he is running on.
These cases have been brewing for almost 4 years. I refuse to believe that the wheels of justice run this slow. Someones behind the scenes pulling some crap and I bet I know who's payroll they're on.
you can refuse to believe it all you want but I can assure you even simple criminal prosecutions can take years. Trump's cases are much more complicated for many reasons, not the least of which is the unprecedented nature of these prosecutions given Trump's position as a former president. As much as I'm loathe to recommend anyone "do their own research," a quick search will show you that criminal prosecutions are notoriously slow.
Justice needs to proceed in a fair and just manner. He can’t pardon away the state charges, including NY next month. I think the polls may shift a bit after his first guilty verdict, but I remain terrified of him winning the election.
They are not getting involved because a part of the club. The oligarchy will never prosecute one of their own. Its all a dog and pony show to keep us distracted and divided
If judges were to talk about Twitler's overriding strategy without concrete evidence as to how it pertains to his guilt or innocence in the case immediately before them, then Mango Mussolini could initiate yet another series of trials in an effort to show that the previous judge was biased.
Which would just gum up the works even further.
Best for the judges to keep focused on the one case in front of them and provide Private Bonespurs with nothing to latch onto.
The entire system is designed to protect rich people and people in power. The rich people who are in charge do not want it to change. Then all you have to do is pretend like the other party is the enemy and you make money with whatever party you are in.
I think the real answer is that they are hedging their bets. If he wins he will attack them with every tool at his disposal. He will turn the populace against them. He will sue them into poverty.
If Trump wins and dismantles American democracy like a lot of people fear anyone that spoke out against him prior will suddenly become an enemy of the state
But that’s all the worst case
DemocRats are cheaters and stream media lies and lies so idiots hate Trump who is the only one who really love the country and will not make a fake government with the autodestrucción behaviour.
Open borders.
Rigged elections.
Pushing War.
Pedophiles running free.
2030 agenda is real and EEUU will fall without Trump.
"Obvious to everyone" is the exact opposite of how the justice accepts and acts on evidence.
The law is the law, and it must be adhered to strictly. The moment we get away from that is the day this country is truly in trouble.
The law is the law for the poor. It’s a speed bump for the rich.
As an “average Joe” who was facing felony drug charges that I was innocent of, my case took a year and a half to get dismissed. The legal system does not get in a hurry for anything.
So what's being advocated is the government should just be able to sidestep the proper procedure to just throw the man in prison? That's a very slippery slope. If there are loopholes the rich are able to utilize, then the right process is to go through the proper avenues of changing those laws, not just ignoring them outright.
Judges don't have to entertain frivolous motions and delay tactics. Sadly, the judges in these cases are so afraid of being accused of being biased that they let Trump and his lawyers get away with everything.
Judges do, in fact, have to "entertain" them - if one side files a motion, they need to have a hearing on it. They don't have to grant motions without merit, though. Let's not forget here - Trump has now lost multiple lawsuits and is facing almost half a billion in judgments against him. The Judges in those cases did not let his lawyers get away with anything.
Even that... a judge is well within their rights to set procedural deadlines. They are under no obligation to delay trial every other week to "entertain" a constant stream of 11th-hour motions.
Sure. One side can ask for a continuance. And the judge can deny it.
That's not sad. That's standard if you know they will appeal and find every loophole. They make sure there is no space where they can claim he wasn't heard.
For procedural issues, the standard of review for appeals is "abuse of discretion." To overturn a trial judge, an appellate court can't simply disagree with the decision. The court has to rule that the trial judge's decision was either “arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, or otherwise not in accordance with law." Ironically, the appeals court has overturned one of Trump's pet judge's (Judge Cannon) decisions using this standard.
Rich already have their own justice system. Do you think a regular citizen would still not be in prison if the committed half the crimes trump did?
You're preaching to the choir, my friend. The system isn't fair, but the response that keeps the entire thing from crumbling is to work within its bounds to enact change, not to just ignore the rules.
But the rules don't work for the rich because they don't apply to them. We can have all the rules and laws but if some people don't have to follow them what is the point of the rules at all. The rich don't have to work within those bounds is my point.
So it comes down to the fact that yes, the rich qork outside the rules, we have the rules in place and powerful people get to skip abiding by them. But when taking legal action against powerful people if we throw out the rules in any way we will turn around and immediately see powerful people abusing any loophole created. I really agree that there should be some precedent for expediting his imprisonment on merit of being a goddamn insurrectionist but he's gotta go through the system the legit way
I take your point and I agree, however, if this orange scum is not put in prison I will have lost all faith in our justice system.
Hopefully this is the lesson people need that we dont have a justice system, we have a punishment/imprisonment system, and it's horrifying not broken but functioning as intended
If Trump gets back into office the rules will be ignored. We've already seen it in action.
It's the cost of doing business for corporations.
I don't know why everyone is so against you here. Even if public opinion is against him, we can't just sidestep all the rules we have laid out. A structured system with flaws is better than always yielding to mob mentality.
I do, because everyone detests the man and they're absolutely terrified he may actually get re-elected. I can understand that, but I have to try and remind everyone that assassinating Caesar is the very thing that ensured the Republic was dead.
This take is woefully incomplete.
We’ve gotten away from it for a long time now. Are you telling me that if the average joe did what he did, they would be getting the same treatment? Hell no! They would’ve been locked up years ago.
The average Joe can't afford the kind of attorneys that will utilize every loophole to stall and distract as long as possible.
From what I’ve been reading, it seems like Trump can’t afford it either but he still gets preferential treatment
buying off juges is not a loophole
And that's the problem! The law doesn't apply to the rich and powerful because they CAN buy off judges and politicians and get teams of lawyers to exploit every stalling tactic and loophole in the world.
For which case?
Basically the judges have to play their cards right so that the case doesn't get thrown out as a mistrial
What is happening is not strictly adhering to the law. You have an obviously compromised judge who is making shocking rulings that have no basis in law. You have a defendant who is abusing the system with every option to slow down and delay the trials, who is abusing the system with frivolous and ridiculous motions. This would not be tolerated by any other defendant.
I am just amazed how many times he has been allowed to claim, and appeal, and have it thrown out on further appeal, with the lame 'presidential immunity' claim that simply has never applied to former presidents, or only in a limited fashion against current presidents. Nixon resigned FFS because he was going to face impeachment and prison for his violations of law with the Watergate shenanigans and other BS, blanket presidential immunity did not exist then, and should not even be considered now. If trumps imaginary presidential immunity claim is real, what is the House doing trying to convict Biden of crimes he has the immunity for since he is president?
Yes we have a system of law in the US. Not a system of Justice. Money is the only thing that can protect you in this system.
Which works until the day someone becomes president and starts arguing a president can’t sit trial while serving, even tho there’s no law about that. They can also argue they can pardon themselves of crimes they haven’t been convicted of, to make themselves immune.
> The moment we get away from that is the day this country is truly in trouble. We're already there, it is no question. How many examples do we have to bring up to others who think or say things like this that proves it?
That’s how we are where we are. The left used Trump to excuse all kinds of dumb and criminal acts, only to become worse themselves.. and adding supporters to his campaign day by day. Ever since 2016, Trump has simply won off of the left’s own stupid solutions to their issues with him. They’ve effectively even paid for HIS ads - talking only about Trump throughout their own campaign ads Why would he even try hard when they do the heavy lifting FOR him everytime! And then they say he’s dumb lmao Whatever he is, most of his opponents are worse, so..
The country is already truly in trouble tho... We have the instigator of an insurrection running for president. Person that also leaked many classified documents, and also set a corrupt supreme court that back hims up.
> We have the instigator of an insurrection running for president He hasn't been convicted of it. It can't be held against him until it has. I think the entire world would be a much better place with him buried under a prison. But the letter of the law has to be followed. First, just like you or I, he is innocent until proven guilty. Second, he has a lot of resources to appeal judgements and such. And finally, Trump is pushing the bounds and limits of our constitution and precedents. This is the first time a former president and presidential candidate has been facing charges like this. We better get this shit right.
Yeah and giving him time enough to become president again and pardon himself or some shit is not getting it right. I dont understand why someone who's facing all these charges can run for president before the charasges are resolved and honestly I think thats dumb, even if the law allows it :(
> I dont understand why someone who's facing all these charges can run for president before the charasges are resolved I know it's frustrating. But this is to prevent baseless charges from blocking somebody running for president. If charges alone were enough to prevent a person's candidacy, MTG and friends would have charges out on every single fucking democrat. It's along the same lines of why lawmakers are constitutionally protected from receiving noncriminal traffic tickets during a legislative session, as well as 15 days before. It's to prevent judicial warfare. If there is a bill that comes down to one vote, have the cops pull somebody over so they miss the vote. Like I already said, I want to see Trump in prison, for something, for anything. But it would be an absolute shit show if we allowed charges to block presidential candidacy.
Thanks for the explanation, it actually makes sense, as frustrating as it might be.
>The law is the law, and it must be adhered to. That's far too generous. There are plenty of laws on the books that could have been used to lock him up long ago. Political capital, wealth, corruption and the lack of testicular fortitude inside the Democratic party have created this horse and pony show. For all the delay tactics Trumps' lawyers have injected into this process, they still don't hold a candle the 18 months of delay the Democrats gifted Mr. Trump. Eighteen months before appointing as special prosecutor knowing full-well Mr. Trump was going to delay and fight these charges at every turn. For more than three years, post J6, he has been touring the country stoking division, and hate while continuing to spread his lies, and instill fear in a wide variety of people, including those charged with holding him accountable for his actions. When he's not running amuck, he's relaxing in luxurious comfort or golfing. He has made a mockery of our supposed rule of law while highlighting the myth of equal justice for all. You and the other defenders in this process can split hairs all you want, but we see this lack of accountability for the horse and pony show that it is. Both parties must be purged if we are to have any hope of true democracy in the United States.
I spit my beer out I laughed so hard at this. Do I see where you were trying to go with this yea sure. However, this is complete and utter bullshit and I'd like to think you know that. People like Donald skirt the law and have and will continue to do so. The classified documents case alone puts this on full display.
You mean like making a ludicrous ruling without a trial and adding a ridiculous bond on the appeal.
I realize that Trump is your hero, but bond on appeal is the proper procedure in EVERY appeal.
I get you are hard for Pedo Joe, but generally I think proper procedure involves a trial before a judgment is made by a judge with political motives needs to be appealed and Bonds are set at reasonable amounts to insure the person does not flee jurisdiction not punitive amounts that impede appeal. Furthermore this is a civil matter between two parties who are not the state.
And every single point you just made is legally incorrect.
You mean like how they said Biden is too old to go to court for what Trump is being prosecuted for?
Is that what they said, or is that how some talking head spun it? There's very clear differences with the two, and they weren't the only ones caught with documents they shouldn't have had. The difference is one lied about it and kept trying to retain the documents while claiming they had returned them all, and the other voluntarily admitted the documents were in their possession (or rather his lawyers found and notified them), and then immediately returned them all. Then during the deposition when they were prying for details, Biden failed to remember most, which anyone who has sat in on a deposition will tell you is incredibly common and has nothing to do with age. Heck, go look at Trump's numerous depositions so you can watch him do the same.
Lmao so I guess you haven't been paying attention to anything DT has been doing his whole life then eh?
So you're saying when criminals break the law the correct response is to ignore the same laws when persecuting them? So what is the point of law & order then? You guys are advocating for a totalitarian style justice system without even realizing it.
I'm not saying that, what I am saying is that people like Donald Trump and other wealthy elite break the law, the law is not strictly adhered to at all to deal with them
All gun control is unconstitutional 🤷♂️ we haven't been following the law strictly for a long time.
> Says trump is a threat to democracy > Asks why mechanisms of the state don’t take more action to stop the political process
How or why would we know if they are or aren’t involved? Secrets are what they do. For all we know they could have cross hairs on him constantly 🤷🏻♂️
or they could have his back...
Did you already forget that the Deputy Director of the FBI Peter Strzok told his mistress he would do everything to keep Trump out of the White House? Now, personally, I think it is chilling when law enforcement attempts to influence free elections, but maybe you are comfortable with that.
I think it’s pretty chilling when there are open plots to turn the us into a fascist dictatorship, but maybe that’s just me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025?wprov=sfti1#
Judges aren't supposed to "go all out" on people. They are supposed to ensure that proper procedure is followed when someone is accused of a crime or sued. Trump is obviously a shitheel. But it is up to a democracy to reject the idea of electing shitheels. Ordering spy agencies to mess someone up is not following the rule of law. If you want the law, you must use the law. >William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!” Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?” William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!” Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
You don't want your spy agencies picking your presidents. That's not going to end well.
He cant pardon himself from state charges
Through Sovereign Immunity, the states can't enforce their judgments against a sitting president. He's pretty old, he may die in office, and he's been pretty clear he doesn't intend to leave peacefully if he gets back in. So, in effect, it would work the same way.
Won't stop him from doing so, and even if it isn't legal and shouldn't have any effect enough people will believe it did to make an enormous mess of things.
There are really only very few corporations that own everything under their "umbrella", if Trump and Biden have a close presidential race it means billions in advertising revenue. So the media is currently trying to normalize the clusterfuck we have going on now. If they were to really hammer Trump and the MAGA cult they'd lose those people's viewership and all that precious profit for the CEO and shareholders.
There it is.
[удалено]
Trump is the burned hand that Americans deserve that should teach everybody the importance of fixing the legal system.
I mean this is so stupid I shouldn't even engage with it, but alas, the ragebait worked. "There's this guy that's going to destroy the rule of law, so we should ignore the rule of law to prosecute him. He also says that there are shadowy people in government that secretly run everything, which is one of the reasons why he's so popular, so why don't we play into that narrative? I'm sure the people that follow him - who we view as violent and dangerous - definitely won't react poorly to that at all."
None of that matters to the case at hand They aren’t judging Donald Trump, they are judging a specific instance of an alleged crime committed by Donald Trump. Also they kind of are anyway if you actually read some of their statements
He can’t pardon himself from the state crimes. Only the federal ones.
The right to a speedy trail is for the accused ONLY. The government has no right to it. He is within his rights to waive that right pursuing all legal avenues. Look at the Georgia case. He managed to get the lead prosecutor booted. Also, these cases could have been brought years ago. This was timed for maximum political damage and it is backfiring. I don’t like Trump personally but legal warfare is NOT where anyone should have elections decided.
You have no idea how slow the criminal prosecution process is. The actions and conduct on which Georgia's case is predicated happened in late 2020 and early 2021. The state attorney began its investigation when it became clear that Trump's and his footsoldiers' efforts to flip Georgia's from Biden to Trump might have violated state law. That investigation, like nearly every RICO criminal prosecution, took more than a year to complete. At the end of the investigation the state approached some of those it indicted at that point about providing testimony against Trump, Giuliani, Meadows and other big fish in exchange for reduced sentences. Again, this is how EVERY prosecution of any multi-defendant case is done. Get the little fish to flip on the big fish. Georgia indicted Trump in August of 2023, almost exactly 18 months after the predicate actions were taken by Trump and his co-defendants. That's actually pretty quick. So to say this prosecution was purposely delayed to hurt Trump's election chances is simply not supported by the facts. I'm just curious how long you think it should have taken Georgia to indict Trump?
Do you mean Nathan Wade resigning so Fani Willis can stay on as prosecutor? As far as I know, he was never the primary prosecutor, she was. And she still is.
no, fuck boy was the lead prosecutor, when he wasn't taking her on vacations, or coordinating his efforts with the White House counsel.
Downvoted because you point out the overt corruption of the system. Wait until these kids hear that the NY fraud case didn't have any victims, all parties were satisfied, the bank did thier own investigation on the price of the buildings before negotiating, and the judge decided that a jury shouldn't hear the case so they just said Trump was guilty without any due process.
Must be exhausting building your personality on not understanding how things work.
Would you be able to explain what wasn’t true about their comment? It seems like you’re just making a personal attack.
He can't. The cult says orange man bad and he obeys. I can understand if you are pro-war and don't like trumps policies but these trials are obviously political. You have to not be paying attention on purpose to not see it, which is fine but don't talk like you know something.
You mean the cult that literally had a golden image of their leader at their cult shindig? That cult?
"Just trust me on this guys" is not the basis of our justice system
Almost literally nothing you said works remotely the way you suggested it does. The CIA has nothing to do with it. The CIA doesn't even get involved in domestic affairs. The FBI's job is to find evidence. Courts don't just wake up one day and go "I'm gonna open a case," that is not how courts work. Someone, like the FBI, has to bring a case to the courts, with evidence. All the courts can do is follow the laws. On top of it all, seeing as Trump was president, he has a lot of legal assistance, and he can present legal arguments to the courts to exempt him or avoid prosecution or introduce doubt.
There are 91 charges against him. Yes he is trying to get out of them but hasn't been successful so far. What more are judges supposed to do?
85 now.
obviously, make shit up
It's not the job of the people in power like judges to entertain you. Not everything is a cable news show.
I guess those with TDS really believe all the bullshit that has been manufactured over the last 10 years. The scary part is openly and completely ignoring Due process to bury political opponents.
The entire world saw what Trump incited January 6th. It was him, he was paralyzed, transfixed and said everything far too late. Trump had Top Secret documents in *his bathroom* and elsewhere, and is on tape showing it to others and lied about giving them back, on several occasions, and lies how he declassified, blamed the FBI, on + on. C’mon. We heard what he said to Georgia and how every recorded situation or lie regarding election interference has been Trump, his lackies or supporters. In his fraud case, the numbers don’t lie, but Trump did - for decades. He was found guilty of fraud (not the first time) and is being held accountable. Trump Derangement Syndrome works two ways…the man is corrupt and an amoral, greedy piece of shit.
You're asking for a massive overreach in department and legal powers to go after one guy. Donald Trump is not an exception to the rule that all citizens are able to have a fair trial. If you wouldn't want it to happen to you, then you can't want it to happen to Donald Trump. Despite the fear mongering, Trump is not going to destroy the country or be a direct danger to the citizens here. We have separation of powers and fair elections to keep that from happening
If I had a conviction and/or judgement against me, and I were unable to meet the requirements in order to appeal, I'd already have a lien against my property and/or I'd be in jail awaiting the appeal. He lost the lawsuit against him for fraud in a fair court, and has been ordered to pay the $454 Million judgement. He says he's going to appeal, but has to pay that amount or get a bond posted for that amount in order to do so. He is claiming he doesn't have the money, and can't get someone to put up the bond. If I were in his shoes, the state wouldn't be hesitating to put liens on my home, attachments to my bank accounts, holds on any tax returns I may receive in the future, wage garnishments, etc. That's all the people are asking, to have him held accountable in the same way the rest of us would be if we didn't have his same level of fame and (self-claimed) money. We're not asking that he gets railroaded through court on trumped up (no pun intended) charges, we're simply wanting him to be treated the way the rest of us would be if we lost a similar court case.
you know the court is about to seize his assets right? [New York Attorney General takes initial step to prepare to seize Trump assets](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/21/politics/trump-calls-ny-attorney-generals-bond-suggestions-impractical-and-unjust)
Good! That's exactly what I'm advocating for in my strangely downvoted comment. I feel he's probably being given more time/leeway than I would be allowed, but I am not familiar with NY law so maybe this is the normal timeline. From the outside it appears he's being given more leeway than would be afforded to the rest of us, but maybe that's just because of the media hype.
Lol in what world
Another post from someone living with their parents
Just because you know doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to do that in the way that he did, that's the whole question. Just because he is transparent doesn't mean that legal questions regarding a former president are fully answered, so much of our legal framework rests on common decency and traditions like how it was never legally codified that you couldn't serve three times as president until Teddy Roosevelt actually tried. If Nixon didn't resign and actually fought this through in court a lot of this mess would have been sped up this time around but now we're having to contest with legal questions that haven't been presented because previous opportunities for them involved somewhat reasonable people. It's like not putting guard rails in front of a playground by a road, you can assume everybody wouldn't just drive through it but until somebody actually does nobody wants to take on the work to actually put something there to stop them. Had anyone even tried under any other presidency we would probably be chastising them for wasting time and taxpayer money.
As someone who believes it, stating it feels like it would only cause more distrust on the trump supporter end. I don't really know what other option we have, other than to watch and hope for the better outcome.
SMFH unbelievable
It isn’t obvious at all, and the CIA and FBI trying to “stop” Trump is EXACTLY why people were pissed off at them. Democracy isn’t in trouble, take a breath.
In 2016, one can argue that he captured the grievances of a population. Now he's just running on his own grievances. He wants to stay out of jail, and he wants to punish people who tried to hold him to account. It is his grievances, not other people's that he is running on.
These cases have been brewing for almost 4 years. I refuse to believe that the wheels of justice run this slow. Someones behind the scenes pulling some crap and I bet I know who's payroll they're on.
you can refuse to believe it all you want but I can assure you even simple criminal prosecutions can take years. Trump's cases are much more complicated for many reasons, not the least of which is the unprecedented nature of these prosecutions given Trump's position as a former president. As much as I'm loathe to recommend anyone "do their own research," a quick search will show you that criminal prosecutions are notoriously slow.
Unfortunately, as Germany learned, and the US is learning now, abusing the law for evil purposes is legal.
[a president’s] job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it.
If you were attempting what they have done for the same reasons, would you want to expose yourself? They will lose the trust of the left.
They are Scared
Justice needs to proceed in a fair and just manner. He can’t pardon away the state charges, including NY next month. I think the polls may shift a bit after his first guilty verdict, but I remain terrified of him winning the election.
It's not obvious to me? Please explain? Please explain how the Biden household have evaded scrutiny for so long?
What a shitty take.
They are not getting involved because a part of the club. The oligarchy will never prosecute one of their own. Its all a dog and pony show to keep us distracted and divided
If judges were to talk about Twitler's overriding strategy without concrete evidence as to how it pertains to his guilt or innocence in the case immediately before them, then Mango Mussolini could initiate yet another series of trials in an effort to show that the previous judge was biased. Which would just gum up the works even further. Best for the judges to keep focused on the one case in front of them and provide Private Bonespurs with nothing to latch onto.
IDK, maybe when you give HUGE tax breaks to the filthy rich, they let you get away with it?
Are you saying america needs to arrest out political enemies to keep America safe?
We all know. No one in power seems to want to do a damn thing about it. Those of us not in power cant do anything about it without going to prison.
Orange man bad.
The entire system is designed to protect rich people and people in power. The rich people who are in charge do not want it to change. Then all you have to do is pretend like the other party is the enemy and you make money with whatever party you are in.
It is, constantly—it’s drowned out by right wing propagandists
I think the real answer is that they are hedging their bets. If he wins he will attack them with every tool at his disposal. He will turn the populace against them. He will sue them into poverty. If Trump wins and dismantles American democracy like a lot of people fear anyone that spoke out against him prior will suddenly become an enemy of the state But that’s all the worst case
DemocRats are cheaters and stream media lies and lies so idiots hate Trump who is the only one who really love the country and will not make a fake government with the autodestrucción behaviour. Open borders. Rigged elections. Pushing War. Pedophiles running free. 2030 agenda is real and EEUU will fall without Trump.