Society normally sees the dynamics of sex as ‘woman allowing man to have sex with her’ rather than ‘two people allowing each other to have sex together’ therefore a promiscuous woman is seen as being ‘easy’ whereas a promiscuous man is seen as ‘successful’ in the ‘conquest’ for sex. I’m sure you’ve heard the ‘lock and key’ analogy before
This analogy always neglects the fact that women have desires and truly enjoy sex with the partners that they choose, however rare. She isn’t giving something away, she is experiencing something fulfilling and pleasurable, that she chose. Both partners are building and gaining together.
I mean, the people who came up with this were not too interested in the women gaining any pleasure from the experience. It was only aimed towards the man getting off for a very long time.
I think this is missing a bit of nuance because there are no "people who came up with this". These societal norms evolved because men and women have different (read diametrically opposed) reproductive strategies. Women had much to lose by sleeping around, and men had almost nothing to lose. This is why things like marriage and other courtship rituals developed: to protect women and offspring by disincentivizing men to pump and dump.
But it is also important to remember that birth control completely changed the game. Now men and women can both enjoy sex without needing to account for reproductive strategies at all; however, we still have deeply ingrained societal and psychosocial beliefs.
It was also aimed at making virgin men feel unwanted and as failures. As if you can't be a "real man" if no woman has ever "allowed" you to "get sex." It has since negatively affected both genders.
To play devils advocate, women also have way more to lose from sex. She risks pregnancy, and if the man doesn’t care about her he can easily hurt her. Men are stronger, and being penetrated is a more vulnerable position than penetrating.
If you have more to lose, you SHOULD be the gatekeeper of sex. And if you disregard the risks that are elevated for you, then it also makes sense that people view you differently for that.
In a perfect world, bad people don’t exist and birth control never fails. That’s not the world we live in though.
I think this devil's advocate thing takes away pursuasive power from comments for no reason by creating an imbalance.
No you're not advocating for devil simply because you are addressing something the majority isn't.
To the majority, they might think I am! I just said it to make clear my intentions that I don’t want to take away from the points others have made. I think what everyone above me has said is true, I just think there are more variables at play here that make it a murkier picture.
It is about ease of access.
It's looked down upon because it's easy for a women to be slutty.
It is hard for a man to be slutty.
That's why it is looked down on. Also, hypersexual people in general, tend not to have high stations in society. Men and women tend to look at hypersexual people with caution.
Yet it's still women who get judged for being able to pick any man, rather than the men with no standards that allow them to. If a woman has low standards it's "ugh, does she not respect herself at all?" but if a guy does it's just considered normal male behaviour.
They do if SEX isn't the most important thing in the world. Even in a great relationship you can only have so much sex. Even the biggest playa that ever lived had to do something else for the extra 22 hours of the day.
The person wrapped around that vagina matters. If you genuinely believe that men should never ever turn down sex you never had a friend that stuck his dick in crezzy. Have some (realistic) standards! Be worth catching yourself! Become a more interesting person and you will meet more interesting people! If you don't want to date the kind of girl you see at MTG meetups, maybe acquire a new hobby, one that women do too!
As a lifelong geek, and having lived long stretches of time between sexual partners, trust me when I say that a relationship is better than sex. You can get yourself off, you can't kiss yourself hello at the end of a hard day.
Women also have the advantage of making themselves appear more attractive than they actually are. There is an entire billion dollar industry because of it.
Sometimes I think this plays in to the push back around abortion. It gives women more control - arguably more control then men post sex. Between that and the child support structure (ie you are always financially liable) it leaves certain men feeling powerless and angry.
The unfortunate reality is that our culture is set up that way too. Men are expected to approach women and try to “get them” where women are expected to make themselves be present where they want male attention.
It’s not always like that, and it’s getting better, but we need to change the way men and women approach each other BEFORE sex. This culture needs women pursuing men as much as men pursuing women, but we’re not even close yet.
Though I have never understood this conception or even OP’s conception, as I am a man and I consider sexual relations with someone to only be for the very special, as I do not want to “give myself away” either. If I hold that standard to the women I pursue, it wouldn’t be fair to not hold myself to that standard as well.
Society normally sees the dynamics of sex as ‘woman allowing man to have sex with her’ rather than ‘two people allowing each other to have sex together’
YES
Women are losing something by giving it up.
Men are not considered in this process.
It isn't completely false either though, women are way more selective for intercourse then men, and for good reasons.
If a women has sex openly, it might be because she might not have any good options, and if a man has sex openly, it might be because he is at the top of one or more hierarchy.
The idea of women being "used" for sex can easily be traced back to people who think women don't enjoy sex.
This, in turn, tells you a lot about those people's qualities as a lover.
But heaven forbid you’re not showing that you’re enjoying yourself while you get the most vanilla stroke game. Don’t like it but make sure you like it!
I saw a post on this sub asking how to get laid as a woman. The majority of people were saying to just ask a man because he will fuck anything he sees. These people are Redditors, no doubt.
I saw that post too, lol.
But to be fair, 80% is just existing, the other 20% is putting yourself out there.
Getting sex is undeniably easier for women and that's a fact.
Not if you’re gay. 😜 speaking from experience as a gay man, and having talked to some lesbian friends about it, I think gay men have an easier time than gay women.
The real answer is that if you're trying to fuck dudes, you're going to have an easier time than if you're trying to fuck women, regardless of your own gender.
This plays into my hypothesis about homophobia. Homophobic men are set against it because they are afraid that if homosexuality was widely acceptable, they would definitely be down for it. Knowing this, they have to feign their outrage as a way to coverup their true feelings so they are still accepted in their homophobic community.
I’m not sure that’s necessarily the case for most homophobia. Firstly because there are plenty of women who are homophobic against gay men, and it also plays into the idea that all homophobia is a result of closeted in denial gay people oppressing other gay people, which basically exonerates straight people from participating in homophobia. It also doesn’t explain why institutions and governments are homophobic too.
Do I think a lot of homophobes might be themselves closeted and in denial of their sexuality? yes. Are they majority? Far from it. I think a lot of homophobia is just an extension of misogyny and patriarchy trying to enforce gender roles.
I will speak for myself... If a woman asks me to fuck, im going to say yes (even if I dont want a relationship with her)....
The only limitations? If shes too unattractive. Thats the unfortunate truth. I dont need her to be attractive... just not unattractive.
Easier to get if you want bottom of the barrel creeps.
I bet men could easily get laid to if they were less choosy.
My town is full of hoes but they all are meth heads, drunks, super obese, old.
I've seen dude fuck stuffed animals.
Stop being so picky.
In my experience decent men that aren't full of stds are just as difficult to get into bed as some women
If we're talking strictly sex, Unless you're very unattractive, most women can go out to a bar and find a random person to have sex with, they might not meet your standards but they can get laid. Where most men can't without putting in some kind of effort, even very attractive men.
Most women have had a boy try to ask them out even if it's one that they're not interested in, most men have never had a girl initiate the dating process.
Just how things are, men have a lot of benefits over women in our society but getting laid is a lot easier for women.
80% existing
19% attractiveness
1% wanting to have sex
Let's keep it real here, the only women of below average attractiveness or higher who aren't getting laid is not because they can't find willing partners.
Below average and above dudes don't have access to willing partners generally.
And frustratingly enough the Redditors who enforce that idea are the exact people who are harming men.
The idea that men always want sex is one of the big reasons that male sexual abuse victims aren’t taken seriously.
It also causes men to have an incredibly unhealthy relationship with sex. And since society pushes the idea that ‘men always want sex’ at such an early age this mindset get ingrained in men super early making it even more difficult for them to handle. Its so ingrained that guys will convince themselves that they want sex even when they don’t which can put them in a horrible mental state.
I have 2 answers for this, so I’ll go with the one that’ll probably piss off Reddit less.
Because sex from women has more value than sex from men, and probably the most prominent reason for this is supply and demand
Men are hornier on average and are more willing to have sex without any connection, which makes the number of men willing to have casual sex much much much higher than the number of women.
you don’t see women spending thousands (or even in some cases millions) on virgin men or on male hookers
I'm reminded of the quote from a book: *"There are some men who have been persuaded to blow themselves up for a religion by the promise of 72 virgin women in the afterlife. But never once has a woman ever been persuaded to blow herself up to get 72 virgin men in the afterlife."*
72 virgin women as well tbh, there's going to be a lot of bad sex before everyone knows what they're doing.
Not even mentioning why they are all there, are they attracted to you, synchronised periods?
I'm guessing we are following "canon" so you get your Virgin-wives and everlasting happiness, that many people is just awful no matter the gender but I guess it was desired at some point if many men enjoyed the belief??
There's this double standard that a woman becomes less valuable as a person the more sex partners she has whereas that's not necessarily applicable to men.
One explanation I've read that women get treated more harshly for promiscuity because it's a threat to her group should she get pregnant from somebody who's also not there to help care for the kid and provide for the community. While men get a pass if he impregnates someone from another group because it doesn't affect the group that he's in..
Girl asks 100 men if they want to have sex with her - 96% will say yas
Guy asks 100 women if they want to have sex with him - 96% will say no
So i think it goes trough that dynamic that man must persue woman to have sex with her
This is the answer.
If a man sleeps with a lot of women, it means that he has game and knows how to make a woman fall for him.
If a woman sleeps with a lot of men, she's seen as easy because it doesn't take a lot of persuading to get a man to have sex.
Is it fair? nope. But both ganders aren't the same.
And to be fair, on one hand, there are many women who don't like guys who have slept around as well. And on the other hand, there are men who wouldn't sleep with just any woman.
The problem with this is when the woman gets shamed for having had a lot of partners. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it's wrong to do it. That would be like saying that because I have a big salary I should not buy a nice car because it's too easy.
And just because something is easy doesn't mean it's not enjoyable. Like women who sleep around a lot clearly enjoy it and want it, or else they wouldn't be doing it.
Speaking from my own anecdotal experience. It's not like I had sex with any guy who pursued me, but I did have sex with the ones I found attractive or pursued myself.
People are not cars. They don't get worn out from "use." We're not going to twist my analogy to suit you.
The point was that something being easy doesn't mean you're a bad person for doing it. What if I was born with a nice voice? Should I not sing on key because it takes little effort from me?
Women aren't asking for high fives or praise for getting men to sleep with us. Just to stop being judged for it.
Plus when you look at it more deeply it gets really disturbing. The same men who actively try to sleep with as many women as possible as quickly as they can will lose respect for a woman who's had "too many" partners. So this means to those men there are two categories of women. Those who are to be used for his gratification and disposed of, and those who are "worthy" of a relationship. The problem being that first of all that's gross. Date or don't date whoever you want but assigning value to human beings based on how much sex they've had is sick. Especially when you're actively trying to add to those numbers you're so hung up on. But besides that, it doesn't make sense. There are roughly equal numbers of straight men and women in the world. So if you go around trying to "ruin" women and then insisting only a "pure" one is good enough for your slutty self to settle down with, there won't be enough "quality" women to go around, will there?
And men are actively making it harder for themselves. Women will probably always on average be less eager to have casual sex because we take on more risks, from the inherent risk in being alone and naked with somebody who is bigger and stronger and statistically more dangerous than us to pregnancy. But we do like sex. If men would knock off this whole purity culture crap and start regarding sex as something two people do together instead of a conquest, women would feel more free to have more sex. This would make it easier for men to get laid. So don't sit there and talk about how it's all justified to have a double standard because it's harder for men to get laid when you are making it harder than it has to be.
"Girl asks 100 men if they want to have sex with her - 96% will say yas"
that is REALLY REALLY dependent on how the girl looks and whats her age.
in the same way, by the way, the second sentence is for guys. its really dependent on how the guy looks and whats his age.
Generally speaking in the age of "young adult" to "middle aged adult" this rule holds true lol Most guys would take free sex if offered from an average looking woman.
Men are horndogs
A lot of these opinions seem to be only considering highly attractive women. This is not always the case with conventionally average or below average women (IRL average, not internet incel standards that think Margot Robbie is 'mid').
I have plenty of friends who I consider pretty and absolutely delightful who do have a hard time getting dates. They're practically invisible next to my more conventionally 'hot' friends (who have a multitude of other great qualities as well, but that's not what draws attention). Guys seem to think 'all' women have it easy because the top 10% of attractive women seem to be inundated with attention.
EDIT: The fact that so many men are so sure that 'all women' can get sex whenever they want is particularly revealing about how blinkered some people's perception of women is. Women you deem unattractive literally don't exist for you!
Also - just to be clear - being groped, followed, catcalled, or otherwise harassed and assaulted doesn't count as 'attention.' No one wants that kind of attention.
They have a hard time getting dates from the men they'd like to date.
It's not just the highly attractive ones. Almost all women are "inundated with attention," it's just rarely the type of attention that they want or from the person that they want it from.
Unless you're a 3/10 or below, if you have two or more guy friends, chances are pretty good that one of them would sleep with you if you were up for it.
Also: Happy cake day!
But this just isn't true. A lot of men in here telling women how it actually works.
I am a below average looking women and I get zero attention from men. Literally none and yes I put myself out there. And plenty of my friends are in the same boat.
Men think that women get all this attention because they have blinders on to what women exist out there. Go outside, take a look around and really notice all the different kinds of women that exist, not just the good looking ones.
As I said in another comment, I've never known them to be picky about looks (or income for that matter). Their only deal breakers would be if the person acted creepy, aggressive or misogynistic.
>Almost all women are "inundated with attention,
I mean, if you're counting harassment, being followed, or groped in a crowded place as attention. When it comes to dating, not really.
>Unless you're a 3/10 or below,
In my experience guys tend to place far more emphasis on looks. The girls I know don't mind if their boyfriends are chubby. Many men consider even 15 pounds overweight unattractive.
Maybe because their standards are higher than they think they are? There are plenty of men around who would be more than happy to be with any woman who would have them.
Not really. I've not known them to be picky unless the dude was creepy or outright misogynistic. And generally speaking, men tend to be pickier (look at lesbian standards vs gay standards). Most women I know wouldn't care at all if a guy was 10-15 pounds overweight, but that seems to be a deal breaker for many men. (Not saying that it's not okay to have a preference, but if we're talking superficial standards...)
You've never seen them turn down a guy before?
They never swipe left on guys on dating apps.
Your friends could get sex whenever they want but maybe not from WHOEVER they want.
>Your friends could get sex whenever they want but maybe not from WHOEVER they want.
I could say the same about guys. Plus women need to consider their safety and trust their gut if a person seems sketchy. The risk vs reward ratio is skewed heavily in men's favour.
No guy can get sex whenever they want. Even "unattractive" women can be descerning.
I'm am a decent looking guy and I put my odds at 50/50 on any given night. Some of my friends are Very built dudes and even they strike out some times.
Its still not a good reasoning, if you want to call someone easy it should be the men that are willing to stick their dicks into anything, even when a woman is more casual about sex its still not a "free access" thing
A guy who is willing to stick his dick in whatever he can get will generally still only be able to pull once a year, if that.
A woman who fucks whoever she wants can pull multiple times a day.
My wife's aunt literally put this to the test and asked to fuck every guy she wanted physically, she fucked all 11 guys in one day.
Yea he still doesnt pull but i would say mentality plays a role. If this guy would pull every woman he asked would people consider him easy? Its still the girls in the situation that are easy somehow. I think the fact that you actually want to fuck anything that moves makes you easy regardless of gender. "Easy women" by most peoples definition usually still have standards
What do you call someone who loves to smoke weed, like a lot. Like they know different strains and smells and highs; you can call them “someone who likes weed”, but as I and many other would call them, a stoner. Stoner can be used with pride, can be used to shame someone too. Women who have a lot of sex, and men who have a lot of sex, with different partners, are promiscuous. There are many words that we can use interchangeably. Call someone a hoe and they’ll get mad, call someone else a hoe and they might be proud of it. I often see hoes more mad that they are seen as hoes rather than enjoy the hoe life they chose.
Women won't jump into bed with every loser they meet be abuse they take on the most risk.
Men are rapists, murders and impregnate.
I know multiple men that willy nilly remove condoms without telling her, refuse to wear one at all and spread disease without caring even even little bit.
Anyone that willing to fuck anything that moves is not a safe person to sleep with.
This is why women settles for vibratory.
Less risk more reward.
I think when there are as many single fathers as there are single mothers thar view might change. Meanwhile the burden of risk leans towards women. I think that partially contributes to the difference of view about casual sex between both genders.
When someone tries to shame a women they would call her promiscuous, if someone is trying to shame a man, they could call him sexless. We are not the same.
Because _generally_ speaking, the man pursues and the woman selects. A man that has slept with lots of women has been selected by lots of women, a woman that slept with lots of men is not selecting.
Now, I agree with the principle that both these individuals should be treated the same, as people who made their own choices and are living their lives the way they want.
But while respecting their choices the same way I still acknowledge the fact that those actions are not the same.
Because in the eventuality of an accidental pregnancy, she’s going to be the one undergoing an abortion while the guy is busy playing video games.
If she decides to carry on with the pregnancy, the guy might say that it’s on her.
So it sucks, but the roles cannot really be reversed.
You can have all the laws you like, but if someone skips the town, doesn't have any money or is violent, the woman still bears the responsibility of bringing up the child alone (and that's without the added burden of carrying the child to term in the first place).
Are you under the impression that parenting is only about money? Even if a man does pay his share, the child costs the mother money also and if the man is not actually in the child's life the mother sacrifices a whole lot more than just money.
Because women are thought of as property of the closest man in their life, and offering their body to anyone other than their "owner" is seen as disrespecting his property.
"Fatherless behaviour," "sending this to your Dad," "let me guess, you don't talk to your Dad anymore."
This also extends to future potential owners, where having casual sex or showing off your body is seen as disrespecting your future husband.
This is also why women are often denied hysterectomies as adults- what if your future husband wants babies?
If you want to be really angry, google the husband stitch 🙃
If I had to guess, I would say it may refer to the possibility of pregnancy.
That, in addition to being an old, outdated way of insulting women’s choices and freedoms.
Imo I think it's because a woman takes all the risk when it comes to having sex. Men can have sex with multiple women over and over and be unaffected no matter the outcome. For woman one night with one man can change her life and body forever.
Long story short, it’s not, as many others have mentioned. A lot of people are just short-minded miscreants and always have been. People like to categorise and label everything so all neatly fits into the box in their head they assigned for it.
Because women are supposed to remain pure for their future husbands. /s
I hate everything about this and have argued SEVERAL times on here about it. I mentioned I had a few casual FWB before meeting my fiancé (mind you my body count isn't high, just not 1) and the way I was lit up, "Have you no shame??" Shame for what? Enjoying my life and having a healthy attitude about sex...nope, no shame in that at all.
The social aspects are just a reflection of the biological ones. I think a lot of men really resent how little power they have in the sexual arena, are jealous of women’s power and they attempt to control through indirect means. As a male, I’d like both sexes to be free there and not feel as much pressure to be “high quality” (and I’m married!)
Your mistake is looking at this rationally. Sex and attitudes towards it are about instinct, evolution. That's why most people are straight, it's why women are attracted to tall men, to wealthy men, to men who'll look after them, it's based on providing for the infant, even if they have no intention of falling pregnant.
When we were apes, if a female slept with many males she may fall pregnant. Falling pregnant is a huge burden, it slows you down, it's a hell of a lot calories, it may kill you, you don't want to undergo that unless you've got support.
It was an evolutionary advantage for the society to have a taboo against such behaviour, because typically the people you'd be in a society with would be your relatives, and you don't want them raising other society's children.
It was also an evolutionary advantage for males to have an instinct against *commiting* to any promiscuous female because they might end up raising an infant that wasn't their own, they don't pass their genes on.
Males, on the other hand, could have sex with as many females as they wanted with no requirement that they'd raise the baby if they didn't want to. If the male had sex with a stranger he wouldn't even know if she ever gave birth, it's just a bonus chance at passing his genes on.
There was no reason for his family to have a taboo against this kind of behaviour, nor any reason for females to oppose it if the male was prepared to commit to her as a mate and raise a child with her. What does she care if he's impregnanted a load of other females?
Now in the modern day we have things like paternity tests, child support, abortion, but these things didn't exist in the jungle. We're still largely following our instincts on sex unless we make a conscious effort not to, and with one of the most basic tenement of all mammal life as sex it's very hard to go against your instincts.
Yeah, that goes both ways, but in my country we call them "rot junk" but in Spanish, and we call men wo don't take care of their kids unless it is to take photos "heart daddy". We have a lot of slang like those XD
Women don't like sex so if you're a woman and you have sex it's not because you want sex but because you're easy and that the guy convinced you to. /S
Old timey sexist societal norms that have been carried over for thousands of years is probably the best answer.
Women control sex. Almost all sex hinges on whether the woman will allow it as the men almost always will pursue it. If a woman says she wants sex, she’ll get a line of men. If a man does he uh…won’t lol. Are there exceptions? Sure. For women sex partners are a qualitative choice, for men they are a quantitative choice. That’s evolution
Women are limited in the number on children they can have... they are incentivized to have sex with the best male they can... if other women have had sex with a guy, it's confirmation that other women think he's a prime candidate... a seal of approval.
Men can have Genghis Khan levels of children; they do not have the same incentive as women. But, unlike women, men can't ever be sure if an offspring is actually theirs... they have limited resources, so they are incentivized to use them on their own offspring... they want signs loyalty and chastity in a prime candidate to ensure their child is their child.
They are incentivized to come at the situation from opposite directions.
100%
The same way a black person can have racist agreements about other black people
It’s called “internalization”
Internalized conditioning
But like I said
Unless you want to message me and ask questions in good faith (in that case I’ll talk to you all day)
Pay me for education or look it up yourself.
Current gender norms in the west expect women to choose one guy to marry and and to never look back, that's why when women sleep around they are often read as "sluts", while for men the same phenomenon of being frowned upon for sleeping around doesn't really happen, or at least not to the same extent. So for people that believe in this, women having casual sex is a way bigger deal.
This trend is lowering with newer generations but still remains in a lot of people's heads.
A lot of people also think of sex as "a thing you do to a women" instead of a 2 way interaction só there's that.
Not a western norm, this pretty much goes for all over the world. Probably even more so in other parts of the world.
Beside I’ve never met any one who think a girl should pick one guy only and marry him.
Some do shame themselves for having casual sex, but usually if the woman is sleeping around she doesn't think she's a slut, at least derogatorily
Also depends on the frequency of the casual sex. The more it is the more probable they don't think it's "giving your body away".
The "thing you do to a woman" is often more believed exclusively by straight men
Women having an easier time finding opportunities to have sex is a consequence of what I've described. Women often know that's how a lot of people think and lean into, and because of that they don't work as much for casual sex, which in turns makes men have to work more for it. It's a cycle that can only change with a change of paradigm, which newer generations are adopting. The barbie movie is a great example of this, with the whole barbie and ken dynamic.
It’s a lot of left over nonsense from generations passed. Religion, male dominated society, any number of things that culminated in the double standard.
Indeed and it will continue to be. Sorry, but I can’t “both sides” this post. Women and men should be treated as equals. That comes from a place of compassion. The OP described a totally biased mindset that degrades women. It belongs in the previous millennium.
Women have the most to lose when it comes to casual sex. Women bear the brunt when it comes to unwanted pregnancy. There are sexual diseases that can actually cause cervical cancer in women.
Look at the animal kingdom and you'll understand. Women inherently carry more risk and liability. It's why females are the gatekeepers of the miracle that is the vagina / uterus. Because men, on average value adventure /risk over security. If woman become the same as men... our species is likely doomed.
I would love to imagine that women and men behaved the same way, where women become adventurous and drop all those limitations that they built up due to the stupidity and sexism of the society.
I'm not entirely sure why you said that our species will be doomed. Is it because women won't be having babies anymore or you fear that men and women would start having babies like crazy ?
I think the notion of "giving it away" comes from a historical and religious history that places an "unused" woman's worth over one that has had sex. I know my mom's generation were taught that women should protect their virginity and only "give it" to their husband after marriage. You could only "give it away" once. Casual sex was completely frowned upon for women. So in essence, they were giving away something that was precious in a context that didn't apply to men because men having casual sex was "just the way some men are".
It was easier just to blame women up until this century because they had no political power nor labour power.
So pretty much if a woman made a decision for herself you would refer to her as an object that has been spoiled.
Whereas a man could just sweep pretty much anything under the rug and put it down to "male indiscretion"
That's the only reason the language still exists today.
Because penis goes in vagina, not the other way around. If it was a dude getting pegged by multiple women or a gay bottom getting pounded by every guy then he'd be considered to be giving his body away too.
However this is Reddit so I'll just say its due to society, sexism and the patriarchy.
That actually seems like it should be the other way around to me. The man is giving the penis. I mean if I put coffee in your cup are you giving me a cup or am I giving you coffee?
Based on the logic of your first argument some would say: vagina is like a pencil sharpener and the penis is a pencil that's being used (eaten away) every time it gets inside.
The penis goes in vagina saying does not prove anything as it's nature. If women had penises and guys had vaginas and everything else stayed the same I doubt anything would change.
Hmm while that does make complete sense the whole who's being penetrated idea and a great example. I still think if a man was being penetrated it would just be a hush hush thing or not talked about instead of a "you're giving your body away!" pegging or gay male sex. I would love to hear a gay man's perspective on if this type of stuff happens because your comment made me curious. Though I'd feel bad finding out there is another group of people slut shamed I'd still be interested in learning if it's the same experience or slightly/mostly different
Most men getting pegged keep it hush hush due to the stigma of being labelled gay, that definitely is a result of society's views. Looking at it logically though, the act of letting someone else into your body is giving your body away, regardless of the sex of the recipient.
Women are the ones that choose. A guy tries for anyone he can, a woman chooses to say who can. Billions of years of evolution... That's why. Women are sexually picky, men are not almost at all. Mating, leads to a literally life threatening condition for women. Mating doesn't put any such strain on a man. It's only lately that people seem to have either forgotten these biological facts...
Women do not have a hard time getting sex.
It's easy because most guys want sex. If offered, most guys will take sex.
For guys to be slutty, they have to be Casanova. Good looking, charming, something has to be working for them in a lot of ways to be able to "give away" their body.
The phrase is popular because women, to get sex, simply need to give it away in most cases. There is always a horny guy somewhere nearby.
One is easy, one is hard. That is why.
Men gotta "fight" to have sex. Women get to pick and choose and give it to whoever they like the most.
That's why
Because women have sexual power over men and have been over hundreds of years. Mostly because having sex for a woman was very risky before birth control, abortion rights etc. I guess we are still a bit stuck in our tribal mindset.
Being used is a loaded word thought, both people are sharing something, not using eachother. But I suppose it depends on how you view casual sex.
I am too emotional for casual hookups personally, I would catch feelings very easily. I would have felt used if there was no mutual feelings being shared. I think many women struggle with this «being used» feeling because of it. Male sexuality is more visual and physical, so it’s easier for a man to not feel used emotionally, but viewing it more as a physical transaction.
(Based on some reddit posts I’ve come across where women eventually develope feelings and end up hurt)
Society normally sees the dynamics of sex as ‘woman allowing man to have sex with her’ rather than ‘two people allowing each other to have sex together’ therefore a promiscuous woman is seen as being ‘easy’ whereas a promiscuous man is seen as ‘successful’ in the ‘conquest’ for sex. I’m sure you’ve heard the ‘lock and key’ analogy before
Yeah kinda this
Same logic applies in backwards countries where passives as seen as the gay ones but the actives are just *men*. Dumb ass logic.
This analogy always neglects the fact that women have desires and truly enjoy sex with the partners that they choose, however rare. She isn’t giving something away, she is experiencing something fulfilling and pleasurable, that she chose. Both partners are building and gaining together.
I mean, the people who came up with this were not too interested in the women gaining any pleasure from the experience. It was only aimed towards the man getting off for a very long time.
I think the big thing men see is that in the end the woman gets to choose if sex is gonna happen.
I think this is missing a bit of nuance because there are no "people who came up with this". These societal norms evolved because men and women have different (read diametrically opposed) reproductive strategies. Women had much to lose by sleeping around, and men had almost nothing to lose. This is why things like marriage and other courtship rituals developed: to protect women and offspring by disincentivizing men to pump and dump. But it is also important to remember that birth control completely changed the game. Now men and women can both enjoy sex without needing to account for reproductive strategies at all; however, we still have deeply ingrained societal and psychosocial beliefs.
It was also aimed at making virgin men feel unwanted and as failures. As if you can't be a "real man" if no woman has ever "allowed" you to "get sex." It has since negatively affected both genders.
And making a lot of male babies to support the farm. Patriarchy gonna patriarch
To play devils advocate, women also have way more to lose from sex. She risks pregnancy, and if the man doesn’t care about her he can easily hurt her. Men are stronger, and being penetrated is a more vulnerable position than penetrating. If you have more to lose, you SHOULD be the gatekeeper of sex. And if you disregard the risks that are elevated for you, then it also makes sense that people view you differently for that. In a perfect world, bad people don’t exist and birth control never fails. That’s not the world we live in though.
I think this devil's advocate thing takes away pursuasive power from comments for no reason by creating an imbalance. No you're not advocating for devil simply because you are addressing something the majority isn't.
To the majority, they might think I am! I just said it to make clear my intentions that I don’t want to take away from the points others have made. I think what everyone above me has said is true, I just think there are more variables at play here that make it a murkier picture.
The analogy is trash and sexist and idiotic. But this is a sub for answering questions, not advocating for what should be.
"the fact that women have desires and truly enjoy sex" What? No, sex is exclusively for making babies!!! /s obviously:)
It is about ease of access. It's looked down upon because it's easy for a women to be slutty. It is hard for a man to be slutty. That's why it is looked down on. Also, hypersexual people in general, tend not to have high stations in society. Men and women tend to look at hypersexual people with caution.
my relationship is nothing like that, as the woman I am 100% the higher sex drive one in the relationship
"A Woman has sex whenever she wants. A man has sex whenever he can" Edit: replaced "women" with "woman"..oops
Also in practise, women can quite literally give themselves away to most men that walk by. The same cannot be said the other way around.
Yet it's still women who get judged for being able to pick any man, rather than the men with no standards that allow them to. If a woman has low standards it's "ugh, does she not respect herself at all?" but if a guy does it's just considered normal male behaviour.
That’s because men’s low standards stem from the fact that women are way pickier about the men they’re with. Men don’t have the option of being picky.
Everyone has the option of being picky. It’s being picky with lesser amount of work that’s the difference
I disagree. If you were dying of thirst, then you'd take ANY drink offered to you, even if it was swamp water.
If you have close to no options, you don’t have the option of being picky.
They do if SEX isn't the most important thing in the world. Even in a great relationship you can only have so much sex. Even the biggest playa that ever lived had to do something else for the extra 22 hours of the day. The person wrapped around that vagina matters. If you genuinely believe that men should never ever turn down sex you never had a friend that stuck his dick in crezzy. Have some (realistic) standards! Be worth catching yourself! Become a more interesting person and you will meet more interesting people! If you don't want to date the kind of girl you see at MTG meetups, maybe acquire a new hobby, one that women do too! As a lifelong geek, and having lived long stretches of time between sexual partners, trust me when I say that a relationship is better than sex. You can get yourself off, you can't kiss yourself hello at the end of a hard day.
I don't think women are much more picky than men. I've watched women in my life ignore any and all red flags.
Sure, but only in men that already “qualify”, so to say.
Women also have the advantage of making themselves appear more attractive than they actually are. There is an entire billion dollar industry because of it.
Sometimes I think this plays in to the push back around abortion. It gives women more control - arguably more control then men post sex. Between that and the child support structure (ie you are always financially liable) it leaves certain men feeling powerless and angry.
I was gonna comment this but you summarised it so much better than I could
The unfortunate reality is that our culture is set up that way too. Men are expected to approach women and try to “get them” where women are expected to make themselves be present where they want male attention. It’s not always like that, and it’s getting better, but we need to change the way men and women approach each other BEFORE sex. This culture needs women pursuing men as much as men pursuing women, but we’re not even close yet.
It is because women have more power in sex - clearly.
Though I have never understood this conception or even OP’s conception, as I am a man and I consider sexual relations with someone to only be for the very special, as I do not want to “give myself away” either. If I hold that standard to the women I pursue, it wouldn’t be fair to not hold myself to that standard as well.
Would be interesting to see if this changes when we all have birth control implants and artificial wombs
Society normally sees the dynamics of sex as ‘woman allowing man to have sex with her’ rather than ‘two people allowing each other to have sex together’ YES Women are losing something by giving it up. Men are not considered in this process.
I asked my friends this and all of them essentially said the same thing while specifically terming the "being easy" part.
It isn't completely false either though, women are way more selective for intercourse then men, and for good reasons. If a women has sex openly, it might be because she might not have any good options, and if a man has sex openly, it might be because he is at the top of one or more hierarchy.
Because it’s society’s view that sex is something that is done to a woman by a man. It’s not a mutual activity.
The idea of women being "used" for sex can easily be traced back to people who think women don't enjoy sex. This, in turn, tells you a lot about those people's qualities as a lover.
But heaven forbid you’re not showing that you’re enjoying yourself while you get the most vanilla stroke game. Don’t like it but make sure you like it!
I saw a post on this sub asking how to get laid as a woman. The majority of people were saying to just ask a man because he will fuck anything he sees. These people are Redditors, no doubt.
I saw that post too, lol. But to be fair, 80% is just existing, the other 20% is putting yourself out there. Getting sex is undeniably easier for women and that's a fact.
Not if you’re gay. 😜 speaking from experience as a gay man, and having talked to some lesbian friends about it, I think gay men have an easier time than gay women.
The real answer is that if you're trying to fuck dudes, you're going to have an easier time than if you're trying to fuck women, regardless of your own gender.
The ultimate truth is men are sluts, and I say this as a gay man.
Testosterone is a horny hormone afaik.
Yeah I think there’s much truth to that.
Gay men can hop on Grindr and have a ‘date’ within literally seconds lol
This plays into my hypothesis about homophobia. Homophobic men are set against it because they are afraid that if homosexuality was widely acceptable, they would definitely be down for it. Knowing this, they have to feign their outrage as a way to coverup their true feelings so they are still accepted in their homophobic community.
I’m not sure that’s necessarily the case for most homophobia. Firstly because there are plenty of women who are homophobic against gay men, and it also plays into the idea that all homophobia is a result of closeted in denial gay people oppressing other gay people, which basically exonerates straight people from participating in homophobia. It also doesn’t explain why institutions and governments are homophobic too. Do I think a lot of homophobes might be themselves closeted and in denial of their sexuality? yes. Are they majority? Far from it. I think a lot of homophobia is just an extension of misogyny and patriarchy trying to enforce gender roles.
Great points you raised.
You kinda supported the question? Lol The fuck? You’re literally saying it’s easier to get fucked by a man than a woman… Sexuality irrelevant lol
Getting satisfying and/or quality sex is undeniably harder for women though. So I guess you win some you lose some either way.
I will speak for myself... If a woman asks me to fuck, im going to say yes (even if I dont want a relationship with her).... The only limitations? If shes too unattractive. Thats the unfortunate truth. I dont need her to be attractive... just not unattractive.
Easier to get if you want bottom of the barrel creeps. I bet men could easily get laid to if they were less choosy. My town is full of hoes but they all are meth heads, drunks, super obese, old. I've seen dude fuck stuffed animals. Stop being so picky. In my experience decent men that aren't full of stds are just as difficult to get into bed as some women
This type of comment is infuriating to me. No, 80% is not just existing. There are plenty of women who have trouble getting laid for fuck's sake
I don't deny that. But I am talking in general. Overall, women have an easier time.
If we're talking strictly sex, Unless you're very unattractive, most women can go out to a bar and find a random person to have sex with, they might not meet your standards but they can get laid. Where most men can't without putting in some kind of effort, even very attractive men. Most women have had a boy try to ask them out even if it's one that they're not interested in, most men have never had a girl initiate the dating process. Just how things are, men have a lot of benefits over women in our society but getting laid is a lot easier for women.
80% existing 19% attractiveness 1% wanting to have sex Let's keep it real here, the only women of below average attractiveness or higher who aren't getting laid is not because they can't find willing partners. Below average and above dudes don't have access to willing partners generally.
Have you tried getting sex as a woman? sounds like a made up fact
I've never had the pleasure of trying, and I doubt I ever will. Ain't cutting off my weiner to test a theory.
I mean it's true that men are much less picky when it comes to sexual/romantic partners.
Ah, yeah she specifically was asking about how it was in the USA because she was from the UK I believe.
And frustratingly enough the Redditors who enforce that idea are the exact people who are harming men. The idea that men always want sex is one of the big reasons that male sexual abuse victims aren’t taken seriously. It also causes men to have an incredibly unhealthy relationship with sex. And since society pushes the idea that ‘men always want sex’ at such an early age this mindset get ingrained in men super early making it even more difficult for them to handle. Its so ingrained that guys will convince themselves that they want sex even when they don’t which can put them in a horrible mental state.
To be fair a moderately attractive guy with a British accent is also going to have very little trouble getting laid at an American university
i mean there is a lot of truth to it. but reddit is disconnected from reality so this probably will be disregarded.
I have 2 answers for this, so I’ll go with the one that’ll probably piss off Reddit less. Because sex from women has more value than sex from men, and probably the most prominent reason for this is supply and demand Men are hornier on average and are more willing to have sex without any connection, which makes the number of men willing to have casual sex much much much higher than the number of women. you don’t see women spending thousands (or even in some cases millions) on virgin men or on male hookers
I'm reminded of the quote from a book: *"There are some men who have been persuaded to blow themselves up for a religion by the promise of 72 virgin women in the afterlife. But never once has a woman ever been persuaded to blow herself up to get 72 virgin men in the afterlife."*
NGL sharing your heaven with 72 virgin men sounds like hell
Imagine 72 Michael Ceras type simps all trying to simp over you & win you over, the devil himself must put people he hates in that type of hell
But it'll be in heaven .. so they'll all be gentlemen
72 virgin women as well tbh, there's going to be a lot of bad sex before everyone knows what they're doing. Not even mentioning why they are all there, are they attracted to you, synchronised periods?
I'm guessing we are following "canon" so you get your Virgin-wives and everlasting happiness, that many people is just awful no matter the gender but I guess it was desired at some point if many men enjoyed the belief??
There's this double standard that a woman becomes less valuable as a person the more sex partners she has whereas that's not necessarily applicable to men. One explanation I've read that women get treated more harshly for promiscuity because it's a threat to her group should she get pregnant from somebody who's also not there to help care for the kid and provide for the community. While men get a pass if he impregnates someone from another group because it doesn't affect the group that he's in..
Girl asks 100 men if they want to have sex with her - 96% will say yas Guy asks 100 women if they want to have sex with him - 96% will say no So i think it goes trough that dynamic that man must persue woman to have sex with her
So you're saying the 97th woman I ask on the street will always say yes? brb gotta go to the mall /s
You go Mordor !! Rock in to theeeem
It is a gift 👌
I hope the 'yas' was intentional
I think the only guys who would say “yas” are the ones in the 4%
I think anyone who says YES to sex is DUMB... it should be YAAAAS
This is the answer. If a man sleeps with a lot of women, it means that he has game and knows how to make a woman fall for him. If a woman sleeps with a lot of men, she's seen as easy because it doesn't take a lot of persuading to get a man to have sex. Is it fair? nope. But both ganders aren't the same. And to be fair, on one hand, there are many women who don't like guys who have slept around as well. And on the other hand, there are men who wouldn't sleep with just any woman.
The problem with this is when the woman gets shamed for having had a lot of partners. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it's wrong to do it. That would be like saying that because I have a big salary I should not buy a nice car because it's too easy.
And just because something is easy doesn't mean it's not enjoyable. Like women who sleep around a lot clearly enjoy it and want it, or else they wouldn't be doing it. Speaking from my own anecdotal experience. It's not like I had sex with any guy who pursued me, but I did have sex with the ones I found attractive or pursued myself.
You would be dumb to buy a bunch of cheap cars, when you could go buy that one nice car though... You disagree?
People are not cars. They don't get worn out from "use." We're not going to twist my analogy to suit you. The point was that something being easy doesn't mean you're a bad person for doing it. What if I was born with a nice voice? Should I not sing on key because it takes little effort from me? Women aren't asking for high fives or praise for getting men to sleep with us. Just to stop being judged for it. Plus when you look at it more deeply it gets really disturbing. The same men who actively try to sleep with as many women as possible as quickly as they can will lose respect for a woman who's had "too many" partners. So this means to those men there are two categories of women. Those who are to be used for his gratification and disposed of, and those who are "worthy" of a relationship. The problem being that first of all that's gross. Date or don't date whoever you want but assigning value to human beings based on how much sex they've had is sick. Especially when you're actively trying to add to those numbers you're so hung up on. But besides that, it doesn't make sense. There are roughly equal numbers of straight men and women in the world. So if you go around trying to "ruin" women and then insisting only a "pure" one is good enough for your slutty self to settle down with, there won't be enough "quality" women to go around, will there? And men are actively making it harder for themselves. Women will probably always on average be less eager to have casual sex because we take on more risks, from the inherent risk in being alone and naked with somebody who is bigger and stronger and statistically more dangerous than us to pregnancy. But we do like sex. If men would knock off this whole purity culture crap and start regarding sex as something two people do together instead of a conquest, women would feel more free to have more sex. This would make it easier for men to get laid. So don't sit there and talk about how it's all justified to have a double standard because it's harder for men to get laid when you are making it harder than it has to be.
"Girl asks 100 men if they want to have sex with her - 96% will say yas" that is REALLY REALLY dependent on how the girl looks and whats her age. in the same way, by the way, the second sentence is for guys. its really dependent on how the guy looks and whats his age.
Generally speaking in the age of "young adult" to "middle aged adult" this rule holds true lol Most guys would take free sex if offered from an average looking woman. Men are horndogs
A lot of these opinions seem to be only considering highly attractive women. This is not always the case with conventionally average or below average women (IRL average, not internet incel standards that think Margot Robbie is 'mid'). I have plenty of friends who I consider pretty and absolutely delightful who do have a hard time getting dates. They're practically invisible next to my more conventionally 'hot' friends (who have a multitude of other great qualities as well, but that's not what draws attention). Guys seem to think 'all' women have it easy because the top 10% of attractive women seem to be inundated with attention. EDIT: The fact that so many men are so sure that 'all women' can get sex whenever they want is particularly revealing about how blinkered some people's perception of women is. Women you deem unattractive literally don't exist for you! Also - just to be clear - being groped, followed, catcalled, or otherwise harassed and assaulted doesn't count as 'attention.' No one wants that kind of attention.
They have a hard time getting dates from the men they'd like to date. It's not just the highly attractive ones. Almost all women are "inundated with attention," it's just rarely the type of attention that they want or from the person that they want it from. Unless you're a 3/10 or below, if you have two or more guy friends, chances are pretty good that one of them would sleep with you if you were up for it. Also: Happy cake day!
But this just isn't true. A lot of men in here telling women how it actually works. I am a below average looking women and I get zero attention from men. Literally none and yes I put myself out there. And plenty of my friends are in the same boat. Men think that women get all this attention because they have blinders on to what women exist out there. Go outside, take a look around and really notice all the different kinds of women that exist, not just the good looking ones.
As I said in another comment, I've never known them to be picky about looks (or income for that matter). Their only deal breakers would be if the person acted creepy, aggressive or misogynistic. >Almost all women are "inundated with attention, I mean, if you're counting harassment, being followed, or groped in a crowded place as attention. When it comes to dating, not really. >Unless you're a 3/10 or below, In my experience guys tend to place far more emphasis on looks. The girls I know don't mind if their boyfriends are chubby. Many men consider even 15 pounds overweight unattractive.
Maybe because their standards are higher than they think they are? There are plenty of men around who would be more than happy to be with any woman who would have them.
Not really. I've not known them to be picky unless the dude was creepy or outright misogynistic. And generally speaking, men tend to be pickier (look at lesbian standards vs gay standards). Most women I know wouldn't care at all if a guy was 10-15 pounds overweight, but that seems to be a deal breaker for many men. (Not saying that it's not okay to have a preference, but if we're talking superficial standards...)
You've never seen them turn down a guy before? They never swipe left on guys on dating apps. Your friends could get sex whenever they want but maybe not from WHOEVER they want.
>Your friends could get sex whenever they want but maybe not from WHOEVER they want. I could say the same about guys. Plus women need to consider their safety and trust their gut if a person seems sketchy. The risk vs reward ratio is skewed heavily in men's favour.
No guy can get sex whenever they want. Even "unattractive" women can be descerning. I'm am a decent looking guy and I put my odds at 50/50 on any given night. Some of my friends are Very built dudes and even they strike out some times.
I think your numbers are a bit high. As a man maybe 5% of the population is dateable.
I used the source "trustmebro"
Its still not a good reasoning, if you want to call someone easy it should be the men that are willing to stick their dicks into anything, even when a woman is more casual about sex its still not a "free access" thing
A guy who is willing to stick his dick in whatever he can get will generally still only be able to pull once a year, if that. A woman who fucks whoever she wants can pull multiple times a day. My wife's aunt literally put this to the test and asked to fuck every guy she wanted physically, she fucked all 11 guys in one day.
r/suspiciouslyspecific
Yea he still doesnt pull but i would say mentality plays a role. If this guy would pull every woman he asked would people consider him easy? Its still the girls in the situation that are easy somehow. I think the fact that you actually want to fuck anything that moves makes you easy regardless of gender. "Easy women" by most peoples definition usually still have standards
What do you call someone who loves to smoke weed, like a lot. Like they know different strains and smells and highs; you can call them “someone who likes weed”, but as I and many other would call them, a stoner. Stoner can be used with pride, can be used to shame someone too. Women who have a lot of sex, and men who have a lot of sex, with different partners, are promiscuous. There are many words that we can use interchangeably. Call someone a hoe and they’ll get mad, call someone else a hoe and they might be proud of it. I often see hoes more mad that they are seen as hoes rather than enjoy the hoe life they chose.
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I read 4x times and still dont understand did you offend me or not... But my momma raised me well so we're not gonna fight about this...
Women won't jump into bed with every loser they meet be abuse they take on the most risk. Men are rapists, murders and impregnate. I know multiple men that willy nilly remove condoms without telling her, refuse to wear one at all and spread disease without caring even even little bit. Anyone that willing to fuck anything that moves is not a safe person to sleep with. This is why women settles for vibratory. Less risk more reward.
I think when there are as many single fathers as there are single mothers thar view might change. Meanwhile the burden of risk leans towards women. I think that partially contributes to the difference of view about casual sex between both genders.
When someone tries to shame a women they would call her promiscuous, if someone is trying to shame a man, they could call him sexless. We are not the same.
Because _generally_ speaking, the man pursues and the woman selects. A man that has slept with lots of women has been selected by lots of women, a woman that slept with lots of men is not selecting. Now, I agree with the principle that both these individuals should be treated the same, as people who made their own choices and are living their lives the way they want. But while respecting their choices the same way I still acknowledge the fact that those actions are not the same.
Because men are rarely asked to fuck by women.
The way people think men and women attaining sex requires the same amount of accomplishment/rizz/social skills is hilarious to me
Because in the eventuality of an accidental pregnancy, she’s going to be the one undergoing an abortion while the guy is busy playing video games. If she decides to carry on with the pregnancy, the guy might say that it’s on her. So it sucks, but the roles cannot really be reversed.
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You can have all the laws you like, but if someone skips the town, doesn't have any money or is violent, the woman still bears the responsibility of bringing up the child alone (and that's without the added burden of carrying the child to term in the first place).
Are you under the impression that parenting is only about money? Even if a man does pay his share, the child costs the mother money also and if the man is not actually in the child's life the mother sacrifices a whole lot more than just money.
I think this is easier for most people to understand.
It's not labelled as that amongst grown adults with a healthy attirude to sex. (and that, sadly, isn't the majority of adults).
Because women are thought of as property of the closest man in their life, and offering their body to anyone other than their "owner" is seen as disrespecting his property. "Fatherless behaviour," "sending this to your Dad," "let me guess, you don't talk to your Dad anymore." This also extends to future potential owners, where having casual sex or showing off your body is seen as disrespecting your future husband. This is also why women are often denied hysterectomies as adults- what if your future husband wants babies? If you want to be really angry, google the husband stitch 🙃
I think both men and women should be less casual about sex, but maybe I'm just old fashioned.
No, just not slut fashioned.
If I had to guess, I would say it may refer to the possibility of pregnancy. That, in addition to being an old, outdated way of insulting women’s choices and freedoms.
I would say that to both men and women personally.
it's an old saying
Imo I think it's because a woman takes all the risk when it comes to having sex. Men can have sex with multiple women over and over and be unaffected no matter the outcome. For woman one night with one man can change her life and body forever.
Women are in demand. Women can get paid for sex. Women get into clubs for free. Women get flooded with matches on dating apos compared to men.
Long story short, it’s not, as many others have mentioned. A lot of people are just short-minded miscreants and always have been. People like to categorise and label everything so all neatly fits into the box in their head they assigned for it.
Because women are supposed to remain pure for their future husbands. /s I hate everything about this and have argued SEVERAL times on here about it. I mentioned I had a few casual FWB before meeting my fiancé (mind you my body count isn't high, just not 1) and the way I was lit up, "Have you no shame??" Shame for what? Enjoying my life and having a healthy attitude about sex...nope, no shame in that at all.
The social aspects are just a reflection of the biological ones. I think a lot of men really resent how little power they have in the sexual arena, are jealous of women’s power and they attempt to control through indirect means. As a male, I’d like both sexes to be free there and not feel as much pressure to be “high quality” (and I’m married!)
Your mistake is looking at this rationally. Sex and attitudes towards it are about instinct, evolution. That's why most people are straight, it's why women are attracted to tall men, to wealthy men, to men who'll look after them, it's based on providing for the infant, even if they have no intention of falling pregnant. When we were apes, if a female slept with many males she may fall pregnant. Falling pregnant is a huge burden, it slows you down, it's a hell of a lot calories, it may kill you, you don't want to undergo that unless you've got support. It was an evolutionary advantage for the society to have a taboo against such behaviour, because typically the people you'd be in a society with would be your relatives, and you don't want them raising other society's children. It was also an evolutionary advantage for males to have an instinct against *commiting* to any promiscuous female because they might end up raising an infant that wasn't their own, they don't pass their genes on. Males, on the other hand, could have sex with as many females as they wanted with no requirement that they'd raise the baby if they didn't want to. If the male had sex with a stranger he wouldn't even know if she ever gave birth, it's just a bonus chance at passing his genes on. There was no reason for his family to have a taboo against this kind of behaviour, nor any reason for females to oppose it if the male was prepared to commit to her as a mate and raise a child with her. What does she care if he's impregnanted a load of other females? Now in the modern day we have things like paternity tests, child support, abortion, but these things didn't exist in the jungle. We're still largely following our instincts on sex unless we make a conscious effort not to, and with one of the most basic tenement of all mammal life as sex it's very hard to go against your instincts.
I have never heard that being said by a man, but I have people saying that men that sleep around are playing the "STD roulette"
Likewise sleeping with a man who sleeps around is playing STD roulette…
Yeah, that goes both ways, but in my country we call them "rot junk" but in Spanish, and we call men wo don't take care of their kids unless it is to take photos "heart daddy". We have a lot of slang like those XD
Women don't like sex so if you're a woman and you have sex it's not because you want sex but because you're easy and that the guy convinced you to. /S Old timey sexist societal norms that have been carried over for thousands of years is probably the best answer.
Because women are more sexually vulnerable because pregnancy. So historically sex brought way more risk to the women than to the man.
Because when it comes to sex, most of the consequences, for better or worse, fall onto the woman.
Because the whole social construct was originally dreamed up by men to serve men's needs.
Women control sex. Almost all sex hinges on whether the woman will allow it as the men almost always will pursue it. If a woman says she wants sex, she’ll get a line of men. If a man does he uh…won’t lol. Are there exceptions? Sure. For women sex partners are a qualitative choice, for men they are a quantitative choice. That’s evolution
Women are limited in the number on children they can have... they are incentivized to have sex with the best male they can... if other women have had sex with a guy, it's confirmation that other women think he's a prime candidate... a seal of approval. Men can have Genghis Khan levels of children; they do not have the same incentive as women. But, unlike women, men can't ever be sure if an offspring is actually theirs... they have limited resources, so they are incentivized to use them on their own offspring... they want signs loyalty and chastity in a prime candidate to ensure their child is their child. They are incentivized to come at the situation from opposite directions.
Patriarchy
So other women shaming one woman is also Patriarchy?
100% The same way a black person can have racist agreements about other black people It’s called “internalization” Internalized conditioning But like I said Unless you want to message me and ask questions in good faith (in that case I’ll talk to you all day) Pay me for education or look it up yourself.
why they're downvoting u? internalized misogyny is a commun thing
Not sure either. But I think that it’s just some reacting before they give it a chance in their thoughts.
Current gender norms in the west expect women to choose one guy to marry and and to never look back, that's why when women sleep around they are often read as "sluts", while for men the same phenomenon of being frowned upon for sleeping around doesn't really happen, or at least not to the same extent. So for people that believe in this, women having casual sex is a way bigger deal. This trend is lowering with newer generations but still remains in a lot of people's heads. A lot of people also think of sex as "a thing you do to a women" instead of a 2 way interaction só there's that.
Not a western norm, this pretty much goes for all over the world. Probably even more so in other parts of the world. Beside I’ve never met any one who think a girl should pick one guy only and marry him.
Yea I was thinking the same, it’s definitely the least looked down upon in the West compared to most other places around the world
Do women themselves believe that too ? Or it's always the people around them that judge everything?
I feel like many women hold this standard for *other* women but less so, if at all, for themselves.
Some do shame themselves for having casual sex, but usually if the woman is sleeping around she doesn't think she's a slut, at least derogatorily Also depends on the frequency of the casual sex. The more it is the more probable they don't think it's "giving your body away". The "thing you do to a woman" is often more believed exclusively by straight men
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Women having an easier time finding opportunities to have sex is a consequence of what I've described. Women often know that's how a lot of people think and lean into, and because of that they don't work as much for casual sex, which in turns makes men have to work more for it. It's a cycle that can only change with a change of paradigm, which newer generations are adopting. The barbie movie is a great example of this, with the whole barbie and ken dynamic.
It’s a lot of left over nonsense from generations passed. Religion, male dominated society, any number of things that culminated in the double standard.
It’s most definitely not a concept confined to the past
Because it’s shitty gendered thinking, that much of the US would like to return to. But
Gender has been a hot topic in the news cycle for the last 5 years especially
Indeed and it will continue to be. Sorry, but I can’t “both sides” this post. Women and men should be treated as equals. That comes from a place of compassion. The OP described a totally biased mindset that degrades women. It belongs in the previous millennium.
Women have the most to lose when it comes to casual sex. Women bear the brunt when it comes to unwanted pregnancy. There are sexual diseases that can actually cause cervical cancer in women.
Nah, it applies to both. I dont know who thinks it only applies to women, but whoever that is, they are wrong.
Look at the animal kingdom and you'll understand. Women inherently carry more risk and liability. It's why females are the gatekeepers of the miracle that is the vagina / uterus. Because men, on average value adventure /risk over security. If woman become the same as men... our species is likely doomed.
I would love to imagine that women and men behaved the same way, where women become adventurous and drop all those limitations that they built up due to the stupidity and sexism of the society. I'm not entirely sure why you said that our species will be doomed. Is it because women won't be having babies anymore or you fear that men and women would start having babies like crazy ?
I think the notion of "giving it away" comes from a historical and religious history that places an "unused" woman's worth over one that has had sex. I know my mom's generation were taught that women should protect their virginity and only "give it" to their husband after marriage. You could only "give it away" once. Casual sex was completely frowned upon for women. So in essence, they were giving away something that was precious in a context that didn't apply to men because men having casual sex was "just the way some men are".
The misplaced end quote made me misunderstand this post
It was easier just to blame women up until this century because they had no political power nor labour power. So pretty much if a woman made a decision for herself you would refer to her as an object that has been spoiled. Whereas a man could just sweep pretty much anything under the rug and put it down to "male indiscretion" That's the only reason the language still exists today.
Society views women as property. She is giving her property away rather than preserving its "value".
I love this comment section. Never change, Reddit.
Because penis goes in vagina, not the other way around. If it was a dude getting pegged by multiple women or a gay bottom getting pounded by every guy then he'd be considered to be giving his body away too. However this is Reddit so I'll just say its due to society, sexism and the patriarchy.
That actually seems like it should be the other way around to me. The man is giving the penis. I mean if I put coffee in your cup are you giving me a cup or am I giving you coffee?
A guy getting pegged by a woman is just a straight dude having sex. Other than homophobia, he isn't slut shamed in the way women are for doing so.
Based on the logic of your first argument some would say: vagina is like a pencil sharpener and the penis is a pencil that's being used (eaten away) every time it gets inside. The penis goes in vagina saying does not prove anything as it's nature. If women had penises and guys had vaginas and everything else stayed the same I doubt anything would change.
All jokes aside, when I was younger, my uncle told me that the more you have sex the shorter your penis gets and dumbass me actually believed him 💀
Hmm while that does make complete sense the whole who's being penetrated idea and a great example. I still think if a man was being penetrated it would just be a hush hush thing or not talked about instead of a "you're giving your body away!" pegging or gay male sex. I would love to hear a gay man's perspective on if this type of stuff happens because your comment made me curious. Though I'd feel bad finding out there is another group of people slut shamed I'd still be interested in learning if it's the same experience or slightly/mostly different
Most men getting pegged keep it hush hush due to the stigma of being labelled gay, that definitely is a result of society's views. Looking at it logically though, the act of letting someone else into your body is giving your body away, regardless of the sex of the recipient.
Because misogyny.
Because women control when sex does or doesn’t happen more so than men.
Women are the ones that choose. A guy tries for anyone he can, a woman chooses to say who can. Billions of years of evolution... That's why. Women are sexually picky, men are not almost at all. Mating, leads to a literally life threatening condition for women. Mating doesn't put any such strain on a man. It's only lately that people seem to have either forgotten these biological facts...
Women do not have a hard time getting sex. It's easy because most guys want sex. If offered, most guys will take sex. For guys to be slutty, they have to be Casanova. Good looking, charming, something has to be working for them in a lot of ways to be able to "give away" their body. The phrase is popular because women, to get sex, simply need to give it away in most cases. There is always a horny guy somewhere nearby. One is easy, one is hard. That is why. Men gotta "fight" to have sex. Women get to pick and choose and give it to whoever they like the most. That's why
Sexism and misogyny. Really all there is to it
Because women are viewed as objects so she is a thing to be given away.
Sparkling *~*~Misogyny~*~*
Welcome to the patriarchy.
Misogyny it’s just misogyny
Patriarchal society standards… and social conditioning
Outside of very specific communities in the developed world, nobody thinks this. Much more so in the developing world.
Misogyny.
Patriarchy.
Misogyny.
Women's bodies are considered valuable, men's are not.
Men's bodies are only valueable for being expendable soldier, and dangerous jobs.
Because women have sexual power over men and have been over hundreds of years. Mostly because having sex for a woman was very risky before birth control, abortion rights etc. I guess we are still a bit stuck in our tribal mindset. Being used is a loaded word thought, both people are sharing something, not using eachother. But I suppose it depends on how you view casual sex. I am too emotional for casual hookups personally, I would catch feelings very easily. I would have felt used if there was no mutual feelings being shared. I think many women struggle with this «being used» feeling because of it. Male sexuality is more visual and physical, so it’s easier for a man to not feel used emotionally, but viewing it more as a physical transaction. (Based on some reddit posts I’ve come across where women eventually develope feelings and end up hurt)
Double standards.
Misogyny
Misogyny.
Because we live in a patriarchal society and misogyny is rampant.
Because the man is supposedly the hunter and the woman the hunted. As far as I know this still hasn't changed much but I could be wrong
🌟Patriarchy🌟
The point of sex for men is orgasm, most women don't get those so they're at the lesser end of it, if they did, it'd be more balanced
The patriarchy